Tesla Model YL, more Tesla probes and lawsuits, new Nissan Leaf pricing, and more

We are live for a new episode of the Electric Podcast.

I am Fred Lambert, your host, and as usual, I'm joined by Seth Wintra.

How are we doing today, Seth?

I'm good.

All right.

We have a lot of things to talk about this week.

We're going to talk, obviously, about the launch of the Model YL, the new larger

wheelbase Model Y 6-seater.

Good news, bad news on that front.

And then we have Tesla going locks, which are locks, a luxury package on S and X, and

now, also today, the Cybertruck Cybert Beast.

Then we have new lawsuits and probes against Tesla.

We have the new Nissan Leaf pricing that's been released this week, very aggressive

pricing.

We love to see it.

New BYD vehicle launching in the UK, and the UK is an interesting market because it doesn't

have the same tariffs as the European markets on Chinese EV.

It's one of the most competitive market out there for electric vehicles in China,

so a very interesting one.

And then a little key hunting news after that.

New vehicle being produced, one being stopped production.

All right, let's talk about the YL, the large Model Y.

We've been talking about it for a while.

We first learned about it through an update in the app that confirmed that a 2x2 configuration

was being launched on the Model Y.

We suspected that that would mean a longer wheelbase because it would be very hard to

do that otherwise.

Sure enough, a few weeks ago, we saw the first filing with the MIT in China that gave us

the specs confirming it's about 6-7 inch longer than the original Model Y.

And now we get a lot more details to the official launch on the Tesla website.

So here, first of all, here's a look at the ID second wheel here.

So the second wheel, you have these captain seats, and all the seats are updated throughout

the vehicle.

There's adjustable headrest now, which is nice.

There is these back of the leg kind of rest, so you can adjust the leg rest.

The leg rest normally refers to the lower, the thing that goes lower.

And there's another word for these adjustable ones.

Do you know what it said?

I don't know what that word is.

Yeah, it goes back in your knees, basically.

Make sure that your top part of the leg is fully rested on the chair, basically.

Then you have these armrests that are retractable.

And those have been a little bit controversial because they kind of look weird.

They weren't fully pulled out, and they kind of look like flimsy a little bit.

I assume that the logic for that is for the way that they go, you can lie the whole seat

down completely.

So in order to do that, you kind of need retractable armrests and Tesla went a little

bit fancy with these electronic ones.

So hit or miss, depending on who you ask.

Then here's a look at the third row seat with one of the second row seats laid down.

Now, obviously, big improvement for the third row seat, still not like I would say super useful

for adults.

It's still primarily for children.

But obviously, with the 2x2x2 configuration, the leg room is not so much of a problem

anymore.

First of all, you have the longer wheelbase, a little bit more space there.

But also with the front seat not being a full bench, you can kind of straddle around

the seats and feel a little bit more comfortable like that.

However, the issue with that is the head clearance.

So you've seen probably plenty of videos online of people sitting in it and you see

the head pops out of the trunk.

Now the trunk, this can be a little bit misleading because as you can see clear on this picture

here, the trunk opening starts here if you see it from my arrow.

The glass is like a full two or three inch deeper than that so you can actually fit your

head a little bit bigger.

But it's still very limited and it makes more sense since you're slouching in the seat

a little bit more and like straddling your legs around the front seat.

So that makes you shorter basically.

So that's how most people are actually sitting in it to make it look good on the height

level.

It's still way better obviously than the current third row on the existing model Y, even probably

even model X too.

So the big thing that we learned about this is the pricing.

So it's going to be $339,000, which is the equivalent of about $47,000 USD, which is

about the equivalent of $3,600 USD more than the model Y all will drive long range

and this is also like considered all those right long range is just with the larger

wheelbase.

That's more than the Chinese version.

Yeah, yeah, you're right.

So that's that's what I'm in here.

It's the equivalent of $3,600 more than these are just just so if you were like

to put that I think I put it on the article too.

But yeah, so if you were to add like this equivalent to the model Y long range

in the US would be about $51,000.

So it would be around that price.

If that's where you were getting at it.

So pricing wise, not bad comparatively to model Y.

The thing is in China, you have to compare it with the competition that are doing

similar things in the segment with the third row, like the NIO, NIO's Envoel

90, the Lioto also, I think it's the L8 in that segment.

It's hard to track all these different names, but there's already other

electric vehicles that are specifically like doing this form factor.

And those are much cheaper.

So this is going to have a hard time here, especially like we already

discussed when it comes to Tesla in China, most of this volume comes

from the base version of the model Y and the model three, the

rural drive short range.

And it's like 90, between 90 and 95 percent of the vehicle

that sells in China as a dose.

And the reason that is it's for pricing.

So there's not just that many cars that sells for higher pricing.

So like Tesla going up market with a more utilitarian vehicle for sure.

So it's going to sell some units because it's nice at that level.

But at the premium pricing that it's going for, it's not going to be

a high volume vehicle.

Tesla needs to go down market in China.

If it wants to, you know, try to stop the bleeding because

sales are still declining for Tesla in China and go back to growth.

So my first thought when I saw this is like, okay, this is, this is interesting.

It's not that much more expensive than the current model Y.

Even though it's bigger as more seats, it still gets 751 kilometers

of range for 166 miles.

That's on the CLTC.

So the way it looks like it should be around the same as the model Y.

I will drive normal with bigger battery compensate for the larger form factor.

Cool through.

So I'm like in, in the U.S.

where, you know, the bigger, the better, like bigger SUVs are king.

This was actually sell pretty well, I think, and if it sells around 51,

even if it's a little bit more like, let's say 52 to 55, it's barely

more than the average new car sales price in the U.S.

Before any incentive, which are obviously going away.

So we forget about that.

So I'm like, this could actually sell very well in the U.S.

I'm more excited about this coming to North America than China

from a business perspective at Tesla, obviously from a consumer perspective.

Please come to the North America.

But then what happened next was surprising.

So Elon didn't share the vehicle earlier this week when it launched

only a few days ago after that, he commented on it.

And it was interesting because like Omar was speculating

the way that we commented on it was a more quasi, you know,

whole more blasts, propaganda, this in chief at Tesla, saying that,

oh, don't worry, the reason that Elon doesn't comment on this is

because the international launch hasn't been done yet.

It's only the China launch.

Once it's the launch in North America soon, he's going to comment on it

so they don't create the Streisand effect thing that's at the one line.

No, Osborne, Osborne, keep confusing the two.

But then Elon was like, nope.

This variant of the Model Y doesn't start production in the US

until the end of next year, end of 2026, more than a year from now.

And then your hats after that might not ever given the advent of self driving

in America. So basically, you can add that to the list of Elon's

dumb decision based on the fact that he believes that self driving

is around the corner.

And we got knows there's a lot of those on the list.

There's the cancellation of the Model 2, aka $25,000 Tesla.

There's the removal of the driving stocks.

There's what else there is there, the removal of the instrument clusters.

All these things were done because Elon was like, you don't need those.

If you have self driving, it's going to solve everything.

And not, Elon thinks that he doesn't need this car

because self driving is coming.

And this is the thing that hurts me the most is that

even if self driving was to come next month, whatever, next year, whatever.

This would be a better platform for a robot taxi than the current Model Y.

More seats, more space, more utility.

Like, why would you not launch this and then put the robot taxi in there,

which is the already what's happening.

The robot taxi is powered by Model Y in Austin

and they call it the robot taxi in the Bay Area too, even though it's Uber,

but it's also Model Y.

So it's just a better vehicle, said what do you think?

Yeah, I mean, I don't think one has to do with the other.

Like, I think it's just not coming to the US for probably budgetary reasons.

He doesn't want people to make firing decisions

based on it coming to the US anytime soon.

Maybe maybe he's saying it's not coming till late next year

and it'll come mid next year or something

just so people don't change their buying decisions based on waiting for it.

But what a dumb move.

Like, people in the US, the one thing that every automaker knows

is that the US likes bigger SUVs.

Like, that's just like if you ask any international

automaker about the US market, what do they say?

They're like big USB SUVs.

That's all they can, you know, that's all they know.

Yeah. So why this isn't being rushed to the US is kind of beyond me.

Do you think any of these will make their way to like Canada or?

I mean, Canada is not really a big Tesla market at the moment.

Yeah, not a big Tesla market.

And if it's just produced in China, that doesn't make sense right now.

Now, of course, there is Germany and we are starting to get cars from Germany now.

So if that's the word to launch this in Germany, and he only mentioned US.

He said this won't be manufactured in the US until late next year.

So obviously in the US, you need the cars to be manufactured in the US

and not to avoid any kind of tariffs.

So maybe they bring this to Berlin.

But then if you bring this to Berlin,

this is there's not as much a big market of this for this in Europe

that there is in North America.

So it doesn't make that much sense unless you're going to export the vehicle

to some other market, like you said, like Canada, for example.

Do you think they're worried about cannibalizing Model X?

I mean, you'd be worried about like

if the Tesla is the body cannibalizing itself right now,

the Model X is like your fingernails.

Basically, it's like it's not there's not much to cannibalize on.

So I wouldn't be worried too much about that.

But I did mention that, too, is like it does make the Model X a lot less attractive.

But at the same time, Tesla, one of our upcoming story that I guess we can

it's a good segue is that Tesla is making the Model S and X

more luxury right now because they are they launched this new Luxe package this week.

That's how they call it that is included.

So it's not optional.

So now the Model S and X comes with this Luxe package that includes full self driving

four years of premium, what do you call it, premium service?

Supercharging for life is making a comeback set.

I'm old enough to remember when Elon said we cannot offer this anymore.

It's not sustainable.

We're stopping to offer it.

I guess you can afford to offer it on a vehicle that sells like a few

not even like 10,000 units a year.

Right.

So they're doing that free supercharging and then premium connectivity,

which is worth a hundred dollars a year.

So it's not that they get that be with premium.

I think it's easy for four years.

Is it for the life of the car?

I think it's for the life of the car.

Yeah, I mean, a hundred bucks per year on a, you know, whatever.

Yeah, it's not much.

I try to show what I should lead with that.

They increase the price by ten thousand dollars also.

So they are making this more like a luxury product.

So now the model S starts at ninety five thousand dollars, a hundred and ten

for the plaid, a hundred thousand dollars for the model X.

So you like twice the price at what model YL would be around in North America,

I would say. So it's it's they're really, you know, making a difference

between the two here and a hundred and fifteen thousand dollars.

If you're talking about the model X plaid, so, but ten thousand dollars.

Obviously, full self-driving is worth is just sells it for eight thousand

dollars. I don't want to say it's worth that.

But if you were going to buy it, then it starts to be a pretty good deal

because everything else would be worth two thousand dollars in the package.

And obviously free supercharging, free supercharging.

Now it's becoming more of a perk because prices are going up.

So I was just talking to my friend Bastien and he's planning to go to B.C.

And he wants to go to B.C.

And he just he just bought a Cybertruck and he loves it.

So no judging here.

He and he did the math on how much is going to cost on the supercharger.

It would have cost him fifteen hundred bucks.

But now I know that I just said he just bought a Cybertruck this week.

And it's a foundation series because those are still around

a year after they went out of production.

And yeah, he bought a brand new twenty twenty four building for Cybertruck.

And you got a good deal while upgrading from your mother, why it made sense

financially to do it.

But fifteen hundred dollars to go cross country.

It's like we're talking about cheaper than gas till.

But like it's still a big amount.

So if you get foundation series supercharger for free, you get a model

S and you model S and you model X free supercharging.

You know, if you're planning to do a big road trip, it makes a lot of sense.

Now, the thing on a day to day basis, it doesn't make that much sense

because the the value, the real value in a vehicle is the ability

to fuel at home to recharge at home.

And that in Tesla is bidding on that when it gives you free supercharging.

He's like, all right, most of the time you can actually charge at home.

So it's not going to be a problem.

But if you're someone for whatever reason that use supercharging a lot

or we have to be careful with a lot because Tesla does put in this new version

of supercharging for life and by way of a life, it's for life of you owning the car.

So that's something that has already changed way back in the day

that the supercharging is attached to you owning the vehicle and not the vehicle itself.

So the resale value is affected by that.

So don't that that doesn't even though Tesla made the car more expensive

for free supercharging, it doesn't affect the resale value at all.

Because if you resell the car, the person's going to have to pay for supercharging.

So that's that's kind of a key a little bit.

My I still have a 2012 model S and this one by contract, it's attached to the vehicle itself.

So if I were to sell that car, the car would still have supercharging for free,

which is really cool.

But now in the term of service here at Tesla also adds

cannot be used for commercial purposes.

Example taxi, rideshare or delivery service.

If Tesla determines in good faith at its sole discretion

that the vehicle is being used for commercial purposes,

Tesla may remove the free supercharging from the vehicle

and then it defaults back to pay per use.

So this I mean, I would like to have some clarification here

like because commercial purposes is quite large,

but then it says taxi, rideshare and delivery services.

Which makes sense because the entire commercial purpose

is attached to the vehicle itself.

But my my bigger concern for me would be like,

what about if you're like a traveling salesman, for example?

Because if you're traveling for work in the capacity like that,

like traveling salesman or just, you know, you move a lot for business.

A friend of mine does as a Tesla and he bought it

because he goes around and tests homes for energy efficiency.

So he goes all around Quebec, tests homes.

So he drives a lot more as a mall three super useful for that.

He saves a tons of money.

So could you do that for something like that?

If it's not the taxier, rideshare or delivery service,

it's still a commercial purpose because you're still using your car

for your for commercial purpose.

It's just not the actual it's not a taxi or anything like that.

So I would like some clarification on that

because I think that would probably sway some people.

A lot of people would buy this for for for work.

What else in this deal?

Oh, yeah, four years of premium service includes tires

and windshield protection, plant plus maintenance, cover schedule services,

including wheel alignment, tire rotation, front camera cleaning

and replacement of HIPAA filter, cabin filter and wire per place.

So this is cool.

This is like, you know, when you you buy a luxury vehicle,

sometimes the maintenance can be expensive and all that.

And, you know, it's less so for Tesla.

So it's less of a big deal on that front.

But a tire, tire alignment,

HIPAA filters like we're.

I'm curious, how do you think they're checking to see if you're

Ubering, like are they watching the car, the miles?

Is there maybe there's a threshold of how many charging,

how much charging you're doing?

They can definitely track your charging.

So that's for sure.

They do have a deal with Uber.

So for, you know, to to to do the navigation into the

the maps into the directly into the Tesla rather than using your phone.

So I don't know if Uber would snitch.

I don't think so.

Yeah, or Tesla would know if you do use that because you're not

you don't have to use that because I mean, I would imagine

there's some amount of supercharging where if you pass that threshold,

they would that sends an alarm, but I just don't know.

But then how did they confirm it?

You're right.

Let's just like, how do they send someone like you can just

be like supercharging all the time.

You know, like you you don't live at home and you don't,

you don't have a place like a car and yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, I feel like the the language in the notes does give Tesla

a lot of leeway that would if I was planning to buy them on

S for that feature, I would kind of be a little bit worried

about how they talk about it.

Yeah, but then also if you were planning to have FSD, like I don't

think it's a great deal because obviously free supercharging on

the normal usage base is not that valuable money wise over

the life of the car.

Like if you plan on keeping it over 10 years and you got,

you know, supercharged several times a month and yeah,

sure, but like over a two, three year period, which is most likely

what people keep their cars at that kind of price range of $100,000

is different.

All right.

Tesla got a new probe from NHTSA.

So what happened here is NHTSA, his office of defect open

and investigation related to Tesla's reporting of crashes related

to its advanced driving system, aka autopilot and full cell

driving.

So since 2021, there's a standing general order that forces

automakers to report crashes involving ADS system and automated

driving system within five days of them being notified.

And what NHTSA realize now is that this does sometime fall

months after, after the crashes and they want to know why

because they know that Tesla is very much aware of when crashes

happen. So like, what happened there?

And then Tesla's response was that there was an error and they

fixed that error.

But then NHTSA was like, I don't know if I'm buying this and they

decided to launch a probe, which is what happened this week.

I'm not too surprised to be honest with you because especially

what we learned a few weeks ago with the Miami wrongful

death situation, you know, we had this big report that went

viral a few weeks ago, two weeks ago, maybe.

Where we pulled some of the transcript from the trial and it

showed it confirmed basically that Tesla misled the police and

the plaintiffs to not share this crash data.

So basically what happened is like within a minute of a crash,

if the vehicle is still in good enough condition and as

a connection as a connection, the vehicle packages a collision

snapshot, it calls it.

So it pulls all the telemetry data, pulls the video from the

autopilot cameras, put everything together, sends that to the

dealership, Tesla's main server.

So within minutes of a crash, if those conditions are met,

Tesla has the data.

So Tesla is within minutes.

So there's no reason for them to have months between

that and, and, and releasing it to, to NHTSA.

And then obviously learning from that accident that Tesla when

asked by the police to share the data, Tesla misled the police

into sending them something else than the snapshot collision

data. Then when the police wanted to pull it directly from

the autopilot ECU, Tesla course to police to bring it to a

service center so that they could tell them that the data

doesn't exist and it was still there.

There was a lot of Tesla just not playing fair to the data.

So I'm sure that when it's sought out and then so this was

answered that it was just a mistake.

They were like, yeah, let us investigate more.

And I pulled some of the data from from NHTSA about that.

And you can see here.

So on the left, it's the crashes related to level two

ADS system, while the one on the right, the, the right

is the automated driving system, which are three to five

basically, Tesla is not on that list on the right

because despite with repeatedly claims on social media and

what Elon has been screaming around everywhere for months

now that this has level four autonomy and taxi, it doesn't

on any kind of real world description of a level three

to five system.

But it is on the left on the level two and it is quite

a bit. It is leading with 2300 crashes related to autopilot

and full self-driving because full self-driving actually also

level two system.

The second biggest reporting is GM with supercruise with 55.

So a big difference.

Some people would claim that that's because Tesla actually has

the data is not the fight.

So it's forced to share, but plenty of other makers also

gets this data is new to Tesla is just that the better

argument would be Tesla's more autopilot and FSD mileage than

any other system, which is true.

I have a supercruise is getting up there too, because they have

like half a million vehicles with supercruise now and they

they have over 750,000 miles of roads.

So, you know, it's getting a lot of mileage.

Maybe that's seven billion like Tesla does with FSD, but

it's getting up in the hundreds of million for sure.

So another thing to to worry about for Tesla.

Now, the Tesla has been trying to shut that down too.

With Trump, they've been trying to not have to report anymore.

And Tesla is like doing a lot of shenanigans to like redacting.

They are abusing the redacting function for those reports.

So it's hard to know anything about them because they get

fully redacted by the time they release.

And then we have a new class action lawsuit against Tesla.

So this one has been going on for a bit now.

And it's it revolves around primarily Tesla's claim that it's

hardware capable of full self-driving since 2016.

All these vehicles have the hardware capable of it.

And it's going to come to full to software update.

And that has turned out not to be true.

And there has been owners that have been trying to

have a class action certified in California over this.

And it's basically a false advertising lawsuit.

It's as simple as that over those claims.

It's been difficult to get past true because, well, first of all,

Tesla doesn't do fast overtize doesn't doesn't do advertising periods.

So how can they do false advertising?

So it has to focus on the marketing claim, on what's on Tesla's website,

on blog posts, on the CEO claim, which is a bit different

in a traditional forced advertising lawsuit.

So it was difficult to get it approved.

But a judge, Judge Lin, has finally approved it with two different

classes of subclasses of certified people that can join the lawsuit.

The first one covers California resident who purchased

FSD packages between 2016 and 2017.

So it's very limited.

Then the second one covers FSD owner.

We opt out of the Tesla arbitration agreement between 2017 and mid 2024.

So that covers like a lot most FSD owners.

But you need to check if you opt out of the arbitrations they are going

because in the US Tesla sneaks in a forced arbitration with all of its

sales contract so that you cannot sue them if you're not happy for whatever reason.

And you can opt out, I think, within like 30 days or so.

It maybe depends on the state, depends on where you are.

But you can opt out of it, but you need to let them know,

like within a certain period of times.

And otherwise, if you have a problem with Tesla, you go through

arbitration rather than go through the courts, which Tesla believes is

more suited for them, it's better for them.

But this lawsuit, is this class action has been certified?

It is moving forward.

It's just, you know, it just happened just now.

So we're talking about probably still years to go.

How many lawsuits, I mean, there must be hundreds or thousands of

lawsuits that they're just piling up.

Yeah, I'm still working on some things, but I got what I was at the track

last weekend at the Monterey car week.

I got the lawyers that won the lawsuit last month.

They sent me a file where they show like all of the cases that

they're working against Tesla right now, just them, just the single firm.

And if I remember correctly, it's like 14 different cases.

I think three of them are already been settled by Tesla.

So I was like, all right, I want to give it up on that.

But like, I think four or five are set to go to trial within the next six months or so.

And then you have a bunch of them that are still going through the entire process.

So that's one single law firm.

And it's the one that won that lawsuit.

So yeah, Tesla is going to be flooded with lawsuits.

All right, let's talk about the legal team.

Ah, they have a hardcore street fighting lawyers.

Street fighters.

Yep.

And they're going to need it.

All right, a little bit better news.

The leaf, we got the leaf pricing.

So the new leaf, which, you know, as we said earlier on the show, everything is

going through SUV and now even the leaf is an SUV right now, or maybe we'll cross over.

I like it.

Oh yeah, I like it too.

It's just, it's uh, everything is going.

So it starts under $30,000 set before incentive.

We kind of have to give the price before incentive because it is going away anyway.

So the leaf S plus it starts at $2,999, $990,000 and $390,000 and it has

over 300 miles of range, 200 and three miles of range, EPA estimated range.

So that's becoming the cheapest electric vehicle, especially with 300 miles

to get into, which is very impressive.

I think the Equinox was the next one.

Yep.

Does the base also have similar range, right?

It's over 300.

Uh, the base, I think is not quite that high, but what's interesting is this

might be the first electric vehicle that costs less than $100 per

mile that it has on it.

Hmm, that's right.

Uh, then you have the SV plus and the platinum plus version, which do

add up the price quite a bit.

So, uh, $34,000 for the SV plus, 288 miles of range.

And then if you want the platinum plus, you lose the range to $259.

So you almost use 50 miles compared to the base version.

Uh, and it costs you a lot more at $39,000.

What do you get for that, the platinum and the SV plus?

Usually when they lose range like that, it's like all wheel drive and bigger

tires, bigger wheels, but, uh, is it the all wheel drive?

Let me see here.

SV plus.

There's no mention of all wheel drive on a long time.

Some leaf, uh, owners will appreciate that the batteries are liquid

cold now, so that's better than air cooled.

So you get a bigger screen with the, uh, starting with the SV plus, not

a lot of other details on that.

I think they're drip dropping news.

Cause it is a pretty big drop in price and range while a big increase in

price, uh, it will make sense that, uh, there's power trains improvement

to term of, uh, the pepiness of the core.

All right.

BYD in, uh, in the UK, uh, then we, uh, so 30 minutes into the show, we

have three more news articles to discuss.

So we're going to have plenty of time to talk to you guys.

So if you guys have questions for us, you can put them in the

comments section right now on YouTube, Facebook, uh, and Twitter.

And we get to it in just a few minutes as we get through these three more

news articles starting with BYD, uh, is launching the new ATO two, uh, that's

between the ATO three and the dolphin.

Um, so it's, uh, completing their SUV lineup in, uh, in the UK.

And now let me give you some pricing here.

So BYD, the ATO two is starting at 30,850 pounds, which

is the equivalent of about $41,500.

So that does sound like a lot for a Chinese EV, but you have to keep in mind

that that includes vats in, in, in, uh, in the UK, which I think are like 20% or

so, so it's, it's, it's not cheap.

I think I think that the model wise starts at like the equivalent of $51,000

in the UK.

So you see like that's about like, I think it's maybe closer to 55 if

I'm not mistaken.

So it's like 10 to $15,000 cheaper than the model Y.

Um, and, uh, and it's still a fairly complete vehicle with 214 miles

of range.

So obviously not as crazy, but you can get the booze version for basically

35,000 pounds, which is 47,000 us.

And that's 20, uh, 261 miles of range.

And yeah, the vehicle is, uh, a little bit smaller than the model

while, uh, you close it to extra EX 30 competitor, they would say.

I wonder how much the X 30 starts, uh, starts at 33,000, okay, 33,000

pounds.

So it's about $3,000 cheaper than the EX 30.

Now, would you get that over any extra, even now that's a question.

Look at the interior.

It's like very sweet interior, very nice.

The, the exterior is, is okay.

I think I prefer the Volvo exterior to this to be honest, but it's

also not bad.

Uh, you get a 51 kilowatt hour battery pack with the BYD blade batteries

in them.

Um, what else you got here?

You got vehicle to load capacity.

So bi-directional charging, you get the high BYD voice control, which

you're powered by AI, which is much better than most cars these days.

Um, yeah, so it's not a bad deal.

It's really interesting.

It's going to be really interesting to see how the Chinese do in the UK.

Cause it's, uh, one of the rare markets where they're not as punished as like

Europe or especially America.

All right.

Uh, Kia started building the Kia EV4 in Europe.

I did test the EV4 in Korea earlier this year and I did enjoy the vehicle.

It was a, you know, a little bit smaller than the EV6.

Very familiar to the EV6, but a little bit smaller, a bit more nimble.

A little bit cheaper, obviously.

Uh, but now it's launching in Europe, uh, with production in Europe with the, uh,

I think it's in Slovakia, if I remember correctly, that Hyundai, Kia, as their plan.

Yeah.

Slovakia plan has started production of the EV6, uh, EV4 with the 58.3 and 81.4

kilowatt battery pack also be equal to low two.

And now it's, uh, so we can convert a price on that too.

And so it's a 30, basically 35,000 pounds, uh, this one that starts in the UK.

And it's going to be also available throughout Europe, obviously.

Where Kia is doing pretty good with the EV3 also.

And, uh, Hyundai with the, uh, Ionic 5, Ionic 6, a little bit bigger and a little more expensive,

but still.

And while Kia starts production of a new EV in Europe, Hyundai

stopped production of an EV in the US.

So the, uh, is the G70 from Genesis Sunday.

I think, yeah, the GV70, sorry, JV70, uh, stop production at the assembly line in, uh,

Alabama has been shut down since June, according to a report from business Korea.

And, uh, we've seen deliveries of that vehicle just slowed down greatly in the US

over the last few months.

So it's not surprising.

They've been basically liquidating inventory.

Uh, there was just 15 deliveries last month.

And, uh, now apparently there's no official comment, but based on those report,

Hyundai is, uh, evaluating its options between relocating production at the Georgia plant

where they are making the Ionic 5 and 9, or maybe just importing them from South Korea,

which would be, would add a tariff to them, but might still be cheaper,

especially at the volume they were selling, which I think was like a thousand or so

unit a year, uh, through, through the US, uh, with the tariffs, but it was not,

it's not the biggest loss for the US market, obviously on the EV sector.

I mean, all right, let's jump into the comment section.

All right.

Skeptic says the larger model Y still doesn't look great compared to the base R1S,

assuming the two will be in the same ballpark price wise.

If it comes to the US, I, I don't think that's true.

I think the R1S is going to be a little bit more, probably a lot more expensive.

I mean, the R2, uh, as perhaps, um, will be in the same ballpark price wise.

Yeah.

I mean, how much is the base R1S?

It's like 80.

Yeah.

I know.

It's like a plus.

Right.

All right.

Greetings from the Bronx, New York.

What is the best place to go camping in Quebec?

That's for you.

Best place to go camping in Quebec?

Uh, well, I mean, I love the Eastern cantons are pretty good, which is also close to,

to New York.

And, uh, it's one of the places in Quebec that have the least mosquitoes least,

though, lying, uh, little best shall we call them in Quebec.

So I like it for that.

And you have a ton of lakes and mountains there.

So for an American, it's pretty good because like I said,

Eastern cantons are like basically the south there, they connect, uh,

they connect New York and Vermont basically, uh, to Quebec and the beautiful country there.

Lake Champlain.

Yep.

Yeah.

It's basically the beginning of Lake Champlain.

Yeah.

I'm a favorite spot.

All right.

If you want to go all the way to Morrissey where I live, also plenty of lakes,

plenty of river, just a little bit more mosquito, but also not crazy, not like the more.

All right.

Scrongfinkel says, just ordered a model Y in Finland and added EAP.

And even if it's not useful yet, 0% interest.

So if FSD arrives in three to four years, I'll save money.

Great update.

All right.

Extended out.

What is it?

What is the EAP autopilot?

An offensive autopilot.

And you still have that in Europe because, uh,

FSD is not available.

That navigator autopilot and all that is not available.

Yeah.

I wonder why they don't offer it as a, you know, a $2,000 or $3,000 thing in the U.S.

I mean, I guess it's mostly covered by the base.

Yeah.

Because self-driving is sold already, so you don't need to.

Right.

It's sold.

Never mind.

All right.

I'm riding my e-bike on sections of the Empire State Trail.

I'm familiar with that.

I've done sections that start in Battery Park in Manhattan,

going up to Yonkers, up to Territown and parts of Neopak and Brewster.

Oh, that's my neck of the woods.

Uh, I wonder if Seth has done any of these bike trails that I've been through.

Well, yes, I have.

Um, I am, I've gone down to Territown and I've gone up to Brewster.

My girlfriend actually lives or used to live in that area.

So it's a nice, nice way to get there.

It takes me about two and a half hours.

So the Empire State Trail is, it's, uh,

a bunch of bike trails being connected to each other and all around New York is.

Yeah.

And in fact, I mean, it goes from, as he says, Battery Park,

and it goes all the way, I think it goes all the way to the border, like, uh, to Quebec.

And then it, um, there's one like kind of along the Erie Canal that goes through

Utica, Syracuse, Auburn, Rochester, all the way to Buffalo.

But these, these trails are not like standalone bike trails.

Once you get up, you know, past Kingston, they're just roads that you're in.

All right.

Uh, by the way, I see, I keep seeing many ocean, ocean fiskers or fiskers,

oceans in the Bronx area.

Yeah.

I, it's weird that I see them around.

All right.

Are the Ubers, because I've, here in Montreal, I've been in two,

I've been picked up in two Ubers and I always try to get the electric option

when I get the Uber and two times it's been the ocean.

Interesting.

So they might, they might be Ubers.

Yeah.

Maybe that's the way to do it.

But in Montreal, it's nuts because they have to go all the way to Toronto

to get service because that the only service center that's been approved by the,

the, like the bankruptcy court, I guess, like, yeah.

Skeptic says Tesla could actually unlock some demand

by making, oh yeah, uh, enhanced autopilot features standard in every car.

Or they could unlock some money by charging for it.

Could that firm create a class action suit,

or are they restricted to doing one at a time?

Yeah.

I'm not sure I understand the question.

Uh, the, the firm, if you were referencing the firm that I said was getting all the different,

that like 13 or 14 cases against Tesla, those are not class action laws.

Those are literally all wrongful debt laws related to, so not, not, sorry, not,

not all wrongful debts.

Some of them are injuries, some of them are personal injuries.

Some of them I've never heard of that were like, wow.

I didn't know there was like a summon one set, set and listeners cover your ears if you are,

you're easily grossed out by injuries.

But the, there was a one where someone summoned their car in a parking lot.

And a lady, a bystander that was there got hit by the car stuck between her car

and the Tesla and lost both of her legs.

Got an inflated ball of her legs below the knee.

Don't like to hear that.

Yeah.

That's nuts.

All right.

Any comments on Can-Am's new electric ATV?

I know Fred was involved in an ATV company in the past seriously considering the Can-Am.

I think we were invited out to that.

Yeah.

I'm still, I'm talking to them.

You didn't want me to go to Wyoming to check it out.

I'm like, you guys are like two hours away.

Can I just go check it out?

Can you bring me water or something?

Like go all the way to, I've never been to Wyoming and it looks absolutely incredible.

I would love to come.

It's just like traveling nonstop for the last three months now.

And it's been taking a toll on me.

And I'm taking like a semi vacation in next two weeks to where I'm going to be traveling.

So it's like, it's going to be a lot of traveling in a row.

So if they cannot do it, like sure, I'll go check out the Can-Am ATV.

Just I think like a commender that they converted to electric.

But yeah, some comments on it.

It's nice that it is a serious ATV company, a serious off-roading company that is

doing an electric vehicle.

I'm super happy about that.

It is a small battery pack in there for an ATV at eight or nine kilowatt hour.

They save between 50 and 100 kilometers a range.

You know, I think the 50 makes more sense.

But at the same time, you know, for most, for most users other than trail and ATV,

you don't need that much range.

So there's still plenty of use cases for it.

So yeah, I think it's going to be, it's going to be a product that's going to find a niche.

I just, I'm curious to check it out.

Then I want to see the pricing too, because the $13,000 USD.

Then I want to see how much it costs in Canada too.

But yeah, I might be a buyer really.

All right, William Pisano says leaf crossover looks great.

300 miles of range for $30,000 is amazing.

Yeah, good deal.

Yeah, I was thinking like what other vehicle would be close to that.

The Bolt was selling for $26,900, I think.

And that had 259 miles of range.

So pretty close to that.

But this is definitely a sweet spot.

And the 2026 leaf will not have all-wheel drive.

SV has more powerful motor and bigger wheels,

lowering range compared to the base model.

Yeah, makes sense.

It's just, it's still a big drop just for the bigger wheels, but I guess.

Yeah.

And bigger motor.

So yeah, I mean, it's not all-wheel drive, but it's one single motor that's just not bigger.

All right, this is an interesting question.

KV says, hey guys, what are both of your thoughts on EV adoption rates in the US

over the next five to 10 years with all the incentives gone and used EV prices so good?

I find it very hard to recommend over buying used.

What are your thoughts there?

I mean, yeah, most people buy used cars.

So that's something to keep in mind too.

So the new car market is for a different class of population,

like someone, people that have different level of income than the used car market.

Now, in terms of value, you're right.

I think, I think used car prices, used EV prices are interesting right now.

That said, a lot of that is also because of the incentive on the new car prices that

reduce the price of the used car and the used car on top of it.

If it was below $25,000, you still, you get another incentive on top of that.

So both markets are going to be hit pretty hard, I think from the removal of the tax credit.

So how do EV adoption look in the next five to 10 years?

I think it's going to pick back up quite a bit in the next, after a slump.

I see the slump lasting like 12 to 18 months before going back to growth.

Mainly because the demand being pulled forward in 2Q3, so that kills Q4.

And then the last thing effect of like, if I would have bought an EV before that,

they would have been an incentive.

So that hurts part of the demand for a while.

And then also the incentive from automakers side to actually make EVs available in the US

is greatly reduced. So that also reduced demand.

People buy what's available and if it's not available, it's not going to be there.

So yeah, that will last I think at least a good year.

Let's say a good year after that.

So I can see like maybe starting in 2027, things start going back to growth slowly but surely.

And then obviously, depending on what happened in 2028, that could,

you know, I think if there's a change in government,

I think it's also going to come at a time where the US

realizes just how far behind they are left with the EV world going electric,

the auto industry going electric in Asia and Europe,

and they are going to want to do something about it.

So I can see, you know, a big ramp up from there, but where it's going to be.

So right now we're hovering close to 10%, Q3 is probably going to be like

12%, 15%, just because of the crazy boost.

Then it's going to probably go back down to 10%, below 10% for next year.

And I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I guess maybe, but I kind of feel like

they're going to drop some prices and I feel like the people who like EVs are not going to.

No, that's for sure.

Drop off.

Let's say around 10% next year.

10% sounds right.

Yeah. So 10% and then, you know, 20, 27, 12, between 12 and 15%.

And then after that, again, depending on what happens 20, 28,

it could go up pretty easily to 20 plus percent.

But the rest of the world is going to be at 50% by then.

And, you know, China is for sure going to be at over 50%.

You know, a bunch of European markets are already over that, but as a whole,

probably going to be closer to that by 2028.

It's, and more importantly, like the automakers outside of the US are going to be at scale with

the, so they're going to be able to make them inexpensively and the domestic US

makers are not going to be at scale and they're not going to, and theoretically,

if a less hostile to EVs administration gets voted in,

then there's going to be a problem because the Koreans and even the Europeans are going to be

way, way, way more ready for EVs at scale.

But for the e-ring right now, like I was just with Onda Kuro last week,

talked to executive, and from what I heard, like they're not being done about it.

They're like, we know that things change pretty quickly in the US on the political spectrum.

Like it's just, it's a revolving door.

And, and we see what's happening in the rest of the world.

So obviously what, what they are aiming to be is like flexible.

They want to be flexible.

So they want to not see their cells being destroyed in the US on short term,

but they also see long term, everything is going to EV.

Like Honda, for example, is a good, is a good one.

Like a few months ago, they had this big thing where they are like,

we are going to slow down our EV effort.

And we were really critical on that.

But the, the, the thing they keep hammering is like our goal hasn't changed.

Our goal is still like all electric by 2050.

And everything is just the, the, the ramp up to that is going to be slower.

That's what they say.

All right.

We have a last one from, uh, well, that says that 50 miles, I said 50,

it's 50 to 80 kilometers.

That's a little bit different.

But yeah, for a small form, it's, it's perfect because you don't need more than that.

Like I said, other than Trill, you don't need that much range in any TV or TV.

All right.

KV last year, Bloomberg NEF forecast for 2030 EV sales was 48% and

Bloomberg NEF has always been very low.

Yeah.

They dropped to 27% this year's forecast while the rest of the world

continues to grow steadily, leaving the US behind.

Um, I mean, now I'm kind of thinking, uh, yeah, 27% 20, 30.

Uh, I kind of, I kind of, I could see it over 30% because like Seth says,

like no, I'm not, I shouldn't say no one, but like the vast majority of EV buyers

don't, don't go back.

So it just, it keeps growing.

Even if the incentive of not there is just going to glue much slower or,

but between, of course, because of the, the man being pulled forward,

a lot of the, the, the 2025 might be, this might be an actual slowdown between

25 and 2026.

So we're going to have to see because of that, but technically,

like the actual real demand is the shouldn't drop that much.

It should just slow down and then pick back up again.

So yeah, hopefully over 30 by 2030 in the US.

Yes, the world's going to be like gasoline car sales won't matter

like anymore.

It's just, it's going to be the, what we also sell a little bit of as we go to EV.

It's just, it's like horses back in the day.

Right.

You still, we love horses.

They're still great.

It's just, man.

I ain't, I know that I was at the car.

Right out of a lot of other things.

Yeah.

I guess that we didn't talk since that I went to the pill beach too,

because I was at the Monterey one, but then there was table beach on a Sunday.

Damn.

There's some rich people in the US.

Jesus Christ.

What the hell was that?

We're walking around and it was like, we saw some Kardashians and it was,

it was definitely not my scene there.

I was like, this, this is probably my first time there,

probably going to be my last time there.

First of all, there was no electric cars whatsoever.

That's not true.

Like Lucid was there, Rivin was there, but it was not.

It was very, very little portion of what was there.

It was like all Bugatti, Ferrari, Pagini, Rolls Royce.

It's just nothing electric.

A lot of the old cars are cool though.

They are the Concorde de Legans, like the main event of the weekend,

where they bring all the old cars by one that they've been restoring.

That was nice.

It's cool to see people like just taking care of these vehicles

and having them fully restored.

But it's just so much rich people just looking at toys.

It's a weird place to be.

All right.

Thanks a lot everyone for watching the show this week.

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We appreciate you taking the time to do that.

And we're going to see you same time, same place next week.

Have a good one.

Bye-bye.

Tesla Model YL, more Tesla probes and lawsuits, new Nissan Leaf pricing, and more

Tesla Model Y

Tesla Cybertruck

Nissan Leaf

Tesla Model X

Tesla Model S

Kia EV4

Kia EV6

Kia EV3

Genesis G70

Hyundai Genesis

Genesis GV70

Rivian R1S

Subaru R2

Fisker Ocean Fiskers

About this episode

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