Tesla Robotaxi setback, Mercedes-Benz CLA EV, Bollinger is over, and more
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Company
Tesla
Tesla is a car company that makes electric vehicles and focuses on new technologies to help the environment.
Term
autonomy
Autonomy means that a car can drive itself without needing a person to control it, using special technology to do so.
Term
accidents
Accidents are when cars crash into something or someone. The conversation talks about how often these self-driving cars have accidents compared to regular drivers.
Term
RoboTaxi
RoboTaxi is a type of taxi that drives itself without a human driver. Companies like Tesla are working on making this technology safe and reliable.
Term
autonomous vehicles
Autonomous vehicles are cars that can drive themselves without needing a person to control them. They use special technology to see and understand their surroundings.
Company
Waymo
Waymo is a company that builds self-driving cars and offers a taxi service that doesn't need a driver. It's part of Google's efforts to create autonomous vehicle technology.
Term
FSD
FSD means Full Self-Driving, which is Tesla's technology that allows their cars to drive themselves with little or no human input. It includes features that help the car navigate and follow traffic rules.
Brand
Ford
Ford is a major car company in the United States that makes many different types of vehicles, like trucks and cars. They are famous for models like the Ford Mustang and the Ford F-150 truck.
Term
LiDAR
LiDAR is a technology that helps cars see their surroundings by using lasers to measure distances. It creates a 3D map of the area, which is useful for self-driving cars to avoid obstacles and navigate safely.
Term
Level 4
Level 4 means the car can drive itself completely without needing a driver to take over, but only in certain areas or situations.
Term
Level 3
Level 3 means the car can drive itself most of the time, but you still need to be ready to take over if something goes wrong.
Company
BYD
BYD is a car company from China that makes electric cars. They are known for covering costs if their car features cause damage.
Concept
EVs
EVs stand for electric vehicles, which are cars that run on electricity instead of gasoline. They are often seen as better for the environment because they produce fewer emissions.
Concept
power grid
The power grid is the system that provides electricity to homes and businesses. If it goes down, people might not have power to charge their electric cars.
Car
Mercedes-Benz CLA 250
The Mercedes-Benz CLA 250 is a small luxury car known for its stylish design and technology features. It's part of the CLA series, which is designed to be sporty and fun to drive.
Term
EQ technology
EQ technology is Mercedes-Benz's name for their electric cars and hybrid systems. It focuses on making cars that run on electricity instead of gasoline.
Term
kWh battery pack
A kWh battery pack shows how much energy an electric car's battery can hold. The more kWh, the longer the car can drive on a single charge.
Concept
electric truck
An electric truck runs on electricity instead of gas or diesel. They are better for the environment because they don't produce harmful emissions.
Car
Tesla Cybertruck
The Tesla Cybertruck is a futuristic-looking electric pickup truck made by Tesla. It has a unique design and is built to be very strong and useful for various tasks.
Brand
Scout
Scout is a car brand that makes vehicles for both electric and gas drivers. It used to be popular a long time ago and is now making a comeback with new designs.
Term
gas option
The 'gas option' means that a car runs on gasoline instead of electricity. Some people prefer this because they are used to it and like how it drives.
Company
Aptera
Aptera is a company that makes electric cars. They are known for creating cars that can use sunlight to help power them, making them very energy-efficient.
Term
self-driving
Self-driving means that a car can drive itself without anyone controlling it. It uses special technology to see and understand the road, making it safer and easier to get around.
Concept
bi-directional charging
Bi-directional charging means that an electric car can both take in electricity to charge and send electricity out to power other things, like your home.
Company
General Motors (GM)
General Motors, or GM, is a big company that makes cars and trucks. They own several car brands, including Chevrolet.
Term
cutting costs
Cutting costs means spending less money. In cars, it can mean taking away features or using cheaper parts to save money.
Term
BEV
BEV means Battery Electric Vehicle. It's a car that runs only on electricity and doesn't use gas at all, making it better for the environment.
Company
Polestar
Polestar is a car company that makes electric vehicles. They are known for their stylish designs and focus on being environmentally friendly.
Term
corrosion prevention system
A corrosion prevention system helps keep cars from rusting, especially in places where they use salt on the roads in winter. It includes special treatments to protect the metal parts of the car.
Term
clear coat
Clear coat is a shiny, protective layer that goes over the paint on a car. It helps keep the color looking good and protects it from things like sun damage and scratches.
LIVE
We are live for a new episode of The Electric Podcast. I am Fred Lambert, your host. And
as usual, I'm joined by Seth Wintrow. But this time he's coming us live from Cuba.
How's communist Cuba, Seth?
It's great.
Before we jump into the show, let me give a quick thank you to today's sponsor. Today's
is non-partisan, non-profit, working to help states pass effective, equitable climate policies
sells in on December 8 for its 10th annual E.D. raffle, where participants have multiple
opportunities to win their dream models. Visit carbon-raffle.org slash electric to learn
more. You have the link in the show notes. You have the link on the YouTube description
and we'll tell you a little bit more about them later on in the show.
All right, obviously Thanksgiving weekend, Thanksgiving week. So not that much news coming
out. We have only one, two, three, four, five, six little pieces of news that I wanted to
highlight during the parkas. So we're going to do that. And at the end, we're going to have plenty
of time to take you guys' question. It shouldn't be too long of a show this week just because
the amount of news. But let's start out with Tesla as usual. And it's RoboTaxi heavy. I mean,
that's why I don't like the Tesla B these days is just like 90% of the news coming
from Tesla is like autonomy stuff. I mean, I'm hype about autonomy. I think autonomy is
coming. I mean, autonomy is already there. Waymo is already at level four. Mercedes at level three.
And Tesla has the best level two out there by far. And maybe someday it will get to higher
levels of that. But it's just, when you're just on a Tesla beat all the time, there's not like new
vehicle programs beyond Ville. There's not, there's, you know, refreshes with a little improvement,
but nothing too crazy. So it's always the RoboTaxi stuff. And it's not good news. People like,
they like to say, oh, they get some all the time. But look at, look at this one. This one is like
a pretty fragrant one. We reported on Elon announcing that the RoboTaxi will cover 50%
of the US population by the end of the year. That was laughable. Like it's crazy thing to say.
At that time, I listed all the cities he needs to launch to actually cover 50% of the population.
I think it was like 26 of the major metropolitan areas in the US. It makes no sense. He quickly
gave that up and change it to, and that was like three weeks ago. He changed it to 500
RoboTaxi in Austin by the end of the year. So 500. So that wasn't, that wasn't too quick that he gave
that up. Took him a little bit to give that up. Yeah. Yeah. That between the half the US population
and 500 that was probably like two months, two full months. So that's, that's, you know,
it's hard to predict the future two months at a time. But then he went from 500 this week to now
around 60. So it's just the biggest downgrade yet. So the 500 came on the All In podcast,
one of the worst possible technology podcast you can listen to. I've tried my best to listen to it
a few times. These guys are completely disconnected from 99% of the population it feels like.
But they are big fans of Elon. They get Elon all the time. You know, they're all in the
Trump circle and everything. And in there he was like high up on the RoboTaxi on the hype train.
500 by the end of the year. That was last week of October. So it's like, you know,
I guess four weeks ago now. But this week, he was commenting on a bunch of people in
Austin, you know, Austin now said, by the way, is not RoboTaxi is completely open to everyone,
by the way. So it was a weird thing where Elon claimed that it was open to everyone. Sorry,
but it was, you would just, you could download, everyone could download the app on the app store,
but then you would get on the waitlist. So it's like that open to everyone.
Now there's still a waitlist, but apparently everyone gets approved almost automatically.
My understanding, like I'm not obviously in Austin, so I haven't downloaded the app. But
everyone can get it. It's just that it's not super useful compared to Waymo and compared
especially to Uber or Lyft because the wait times are pretty crazy. And, you know, this is
calling it a high service demand. And so that's the message that pops up if you, you know, have to
wait like sometime 20 to 40 minutes to get a car, which if you use Uber, you know, that's, you know,
that's in the, if you have to wait more than 15 minutes for a Uber in the metropolitan area,
there's something going on. There's actual high demand. But this is like a day to day occurrence
for the test RoboTaxi. And that's not necessarily because there's high demand, it's just because
there's no cars, there's RoboTaxi out there. It started with 12 cars in late June, in July. And
then just a few months later announced that they doubled the fleet. So the fleet has been estimated
to be around 30 cars. There's an actual license plates tracker that's been going on. And the
29 license plates for RoboTaxi in Austin that have been spotted. And so doubling it,
so Elon was commenting on these high service demand situation. And he said that to address
the situation, Tesla's going to double the fleet next month. So next month is obviously December.
So by the end of the year, instead of having 500, Tesla should have about 60 or so vehicle if they
do indeed double the fleet, as he just stated. And again, that's still with someone in the passenger
front seat, a Tesla safety monitor, they call it, with a finger on the kill switch ready to stop the
car. And even with those people in the car, we know that Tesla already had seven reported accidents
with RoboTaxi in Austin. And that's again, with a very small fleet, not traveling that many miles,
a few hundred thousands the best. So it's, it crashes at a much higher rate than humans do,
even with a human in the car supposedly preventing further accident. That's that's the state of
RoboTaxi right now. And Elon also said that by the end of the year, well, he said that a few
months ago now, again, his predictions changed quite quickly over time. He said that he would
remove the safety monitor. And I hope they don't like, I know, I know a lot of people interpret
what my slides with RoboTaxi is like, they interpret me saying that they have safety
monitor as a slide. It's, it's not a slide on the actual system, because I think they need it,
obviously they need it from this crash statistic that we've been seeing. It's one of the only reason
I'm mentioning it is that I think it's an important part of this system. If you're going to compare
it to Waymo, which is the go to thing that people do they compare, you know, Tesla and Waymo as the
two leader and autonomous vehicles. Well, Waymo's RoboTaxi doesn't have a safety monitor. They do
when they first launch in a new service area. But when they actually announced we have a RoboTaxi
service available in XCITY, which right now is Phoenix, Austin, LA, San Francisco, Atlanta,
they don't have those safety monitors anymore. So it's completely different service.
Oh, yeah. Elon had a big admission also this week regarding Tesla's autonomous
effort. And this, this one is an interesting one. So this one is more about FSD and RoboTaxi.
So Elon has been teasing a partner for Tesla, for Tesla, where another automaker would license
Tesla's FSD and, you know, install the cameras and Tesla's computer inside their cars and then
license the software to Tesla. That has been going on for a while as early as 2021. He was talking
about it saying that it was primarily preliminary discussions with other automakers about last
time I think in FSD. Then in 2023, he again repeated that. And then in 2024, last year,
he stated that these serious talks with one major automaker, and there's a good chance
that a deal would be signed that year in 2024. Now, obviously, that deal never happened. And
earlier this year, we actually had a good idea of who was that automaker, most likely was Ford,
because Jim Farley, Ford CEO, did comment on talks with Tesla and said that they looked at FSD,
but he shut down the idea of integrating it in Ford vehicles. And he even went as far as
stating that he believed that Waymo is better and he sees that for level four and up LiDAR is
actually a useful technology. So that hasn't been much talk of Tesla licensing FSD since then,
other than Elon Musk claiming that all other automakers would don't license FSD or doom.
But today, this week, he said, I've tried to warn them and even offer to license Tesla FSD,
but they don't want it crazy in reference to the other automakers. And then this is a crazy part
set. When Legacy Auto does occasionally reach out, they typically discuss implementing FSD for
tiny programs in five years with unworkable requirements for Tesla, so pointless.
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure they're not worried about like losing their whole business because Tesla
doesn't meet their goals. And you know, the Tesla crashes their cars into some truck.
Exactly. So what are those unworkable requirements that you're asking? Are they asking for it to
work? Are they asking for FSD to live up to its name and be full self-driving?
Is that the unworkable requirement that Tesla cannot deliver? That's literally what it sounds
like here. It sounds like the other automakers are like, all right, if you're selling us a full
self-driving system, then you need to be responsible for it and you need to take
fiscal and legal responsibility if something happens, which is, you know, what Level 4 is
and Level 3 to a certain degree within the period of time to switch over from the drivers to the
system or vice versa, I should say. And this is not like crazy talk. Like obviously,
Level 4 way more was its own insurance system for that and they take responsibility at the
consumer level. So this is more, you know, Waymo is a ride a hailing service like this
double taxi FSD is a little bit more unique in the sense that that's a lot of Tesla shareholders
are holding on to that idea that, oh yeah, but it's in the consumer vehicle, we cannot buy
a consumer car that has this kind of capabilities, which is not exactly true especially in China.
In China, a lot of automakers have very similar capabilities now. And some of them are taking
responsibility for it. BYD, for example, for its auto part feature, if something happens,
they'll cover the cost. And they told me that it happened. The people have damaged their car with
auto part feature and BYD covered it. So yeah, this sounds like the unworkable requirements.
Tesla just want to sell you FSD. And they want the other automakers to have the same
bold approach that Tesla has, which is to, you know, leave everything to the driver,
they're responsible for everything. And I think this highlights something that we've talked about
before said, but like a lot of people, especially Tesla that are invested in Tesla,
thing that Tesla has this crazy lead with FSD, because if you compare it to, you know,
supercruise, blue cruise and all that, it's like, it has more capabilities, it is more advanced and
everything, which I think is fair. But that doesn't necessarily means that Tesla is like
way ahead of everybody else. It can also mean that Tesla is super aggressive with the deployment
of those systems. And although automakers wouldn't want to deploy a system with the current
capabilities that Tesla FSD has, because they see the problem that we're just starting to see
right now with Tesla being literally flooded with lawsuits regarding crashes that were autopilot or
FSD were active. I think that's the biggest difference maker I would think. All right,
we are live. I see we have Carl here. We have skeptic here. We are going to have plenty of
time to take you guys questions because it's Thanksgiving week. There wasn't that much news
to discuss. So if you have a question for us, put them in the comment section below. We're going
to have plenty of time to talk about it at the end of the show. We're going to do one more before
we talk also about the climate. The last one about FSD and Tesla is, well, I'm not about Tesla,
there's one more about Tesla FSD or autonomous efforts at Tesla. There was a strange tweet that
sent out this week about FSD approval in Europe. So that has been a problem for Tesla for a long
time. Tesla sold FSD in Europe as long as it has in North America, but they haven't been able to
deploy the more advanced capabilities like working at an intersection and things like that, because
it's not approved in Europe. And that has slowed down FSD adoption quite a bit. And this is one
of the most profitable part for Tesla. So the getting that approved has been very important for
them. And Elon has talked about it in the past as put some timelines out there that didn't pan out.
But now Tesla this week came out with a long tweet where they basically alleged that they're
going to get full approval in February 2026. So it's Tesla. Okay, I don't have the full tweet in
there, but in the tweet, they basically said that they are working with the RDW, which is the
rotatorities in the Netherlands and the Netherlands. If you do get an exception for your system in the
Netherlands and gets approved, then all the other European countries, EU countries can decide whether
the piggyback on that exceptions are not. So that kind of opens the door for the RDW can open the
door for Tesla to have FSD approved across Europe. And they've been working on them for a while, and
they just didn't pan out. Until this week, Tesla tweets out, it's like, yeah, they told us that in
February, basically, it's going to be approved. But then at the same time in the tweet, where they go
about all the different problems with the regulations, example, some of these regulation are
outdated and rule based, rule based, I mean, all regulation is rule based, it's regulation is rule.
Making FSD illegal in that current form, modifying FSD to make it a fully rule compliant would make
it unsafe and unable in unusable in many cases. Yeah, like, you know, keeping your hands on the
steering wheel all times and keeping attention on the road at all times is just, it's not something
that Tesla wants to do. So yeah, but in the same tweet, they also ask Tesla owners in Europe to
reach out to RDW and tell them how much you want FSD to be approved. So it was kind of contradicting
they were like, yeah, they basically told us we're going to be approved in February. And then, by the
way, put a little pressure on them to make sure that happens. So I wrote an old article about it,
I was like, all right, this sounds like, you know, going in the right direction, everything within me
little seconds of posting this article, RDW send out a response on their website. And the response
was a lot more nuanced than what Tesla said. They basically said Tesla, they didn't tell Tesla
that they're going to be approved in February. They said that they agreed they have established a
schedule according to which this is expected to demonstrate in February 2026 that FSD supervised
meets the required standards. So it's not changing the standard. It's like, Tesla is the one that
is going to make FSD work in Europe within their standards by February 2026, or at least that's
what they claim. So yeah, both RDW and Tesla are aware of those efforts needed to reach a decision
in this matter in February, whether this timeline will be met is yet to be determined in the coming
period for the RDW safety is paramount. They also ask people to stop reaching out to them about it.
It's like, yeah, I mean, we appreciate your comments, but it's not going to influence our
decision. Our decision is purely safety-based, which you know, you kind of have to respect that.
All right, let's talk a little bit about our friend at the Climate Exchange.
All right, today's episode is brought to you by Climate Exchange, a non-partisan,
non-profit working to help states pass effective equitable climate policies. Sales end on December
8th for their 10th annual EV Rappel, where participants have multiple opportunities to win
their dream model. This go around. Climate Exchange is shaking things up with not one,
but two Rappels versus the luxury Rappel, which Climate Exchange has conducted for the past decade.
The grand prize winner can choose any EV on the market fully customized up to $120,000. New this
year, however, the grand prize winner can also choose two EVs totaling up to $120,000. Also new
for this year, annual event is the mini Rappel, which the grand prize winner can choose any EV
on the market priced up to $45,000. Luxury Rappel tickets are $250 each, and only $5,000 will be
sold, while mini Rappel tickets are $100 each, and Climate Exchange is only selling $3,500.
They've sold just over half of the available tickets, so your chances of winning your dream EV
are better than ever. The grand prize drawings will take place on December 2nd, but sales end
on December 8th, so don't wait to get your tickets. Visit carbonrappel.org
slash electric to learn more. A big thank you to Climate Exchange for sponsoring.
Yeah, it looks like they're about half sold on both Rappel here. That's kind of relevant to
our current situation right now. You're in a communist country, and I'm in a capitalist country,
and you have the choice if you win to either you get a crazy luxury EV, or you and your neighbor
get a good one in your neighbor, probably your family or friend, but still it's cool. I do like
the option. Yeah, it's pretty crazy here. I'd like just spend a moment like,
you know, Cuba has that thing where everybody has 50s American cars that they've
upgraded, and those are still everywhere, but I'm seeing a lot of Chinese EVs here,
Andy and BYD, and I'm seeing some like European, but for the most part,
you know, people ride these crazy tuk-tuk type things or motorcycles. I would say tuk-tuks
are about 90% EVs. It's crazy. You know, it's just like the gas is so expensive here, and
just other factors make, you know, electric really nice. Like the power grid seems to go down
like almost every day here. I mean, every day I've been here, it's gone down around four or five
o'clock, and you know, you would think, well, I can't charge my car at four or five o'clock,
but people know when they're going to go down, they can charge it on night, and then they can use it,
you know, use it to power their house for a couple hours when the power goes down. So it's
pretty interesting. Yeah, that's good to know. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you don't have a strong
grid, it's not intuitive that you think that electric vehicles make sense, but they can actually
be part of the solution to have a stronger grid too. So that's interesting. All right.
One more test and use. The Powerwall recall is turning into a first step into a class action
lawsuit. It was filed in Florida this week. So it was filed as a potential class action lawsuit.
It still needs to be approved by a judge, but it has good chances of being approved because
this whole thing has been really poorly, poorly endowed by Tesla. We've discussed it a little
bit in the past. So earlier this year, Tesla did recall the, I don't think they shared the
actual number in Australia, but they did recall Paul II's bill between 2020 and 2022 in Australia
due to a fire risk, and he said there was several fires that happened, and they decided to recall
those battery packs. We reported at the time was like, okay, that's, that's strange because
it's just happening in Australia. And this Powerwall II is the same basically everywhere. I mean,
there's a few different modifications, but for the most part, it is the same product with the
same batteries. There's, you know, you have the gateway for off grid utilization, or you have
the one that you can use for net metering. But anyway, the Powerwall itself built from 2020 to
2022 was problematic, fire risk happened. And then we investigated on ourselves like, all right,
what's why is this not happening in the US too? And in the US, we found that there was several
fires that also happened with these units. Tesla knew about it. Tesla even had to build a fleet
of trailers with equipment in there to be able to remove a Powerwall that is starting or
at risk of a terminal event, and drench it in water, blood water, all within the trailer itself.
So they knew this was a problem for a while. And they didn't do a recall from since 2023,
they knew this was a problem. And that they didn't do a recall. And it was a two months
wait between the you, the Australian recall and US recall, I still haven't seen the Canadian recall,
I mean, it's, it's, it's a big problem. Then on, but why the, the class action is happening,
it's about the recall itself also having problems with the main one being that the affected Powerwalls
are being discharged remotely. So Tesla is directly taking control of your batteries at home and
discharging them, and then keeping them discharged with a very, very low state of charge. And that
obviously has effects on, on you using that product, it becomes mostly useless and becomes a brick.
And, and, and that can have financial impact if you're using it for, you know, critical
upgrade utilization, or if you're using it for net metering, in the Australian recall,
there was a mention that Tesla is considering compensating people for that period of time
where the system is brick. So not even doing it, just considering it. So basically this,
this lawsuit, this class action is aiming to, to have full compensation for that. Because
it does make sense that this would compensate. The lawsuit is mentioning that some people are
weeks or months without working Powerwalls. You do get, I mean, for one thing so far,
at least you do get an upgrade to Powerwall three. Now, how big of an upgrade that is though is like,
does it compensate for the loss of capacity for weeks or months at a time? I wouldn't say so,
because you know, your system is designed for, for you and like the Powerwall twos that you have
should work with your, your system. And you probably got one or you got two if you needed
the power needs more, but the energy side of things is, is not different with power three. So
you don't get more power, you don't get more energy, you don't, you don't, it doesn't last off grid
for a longer period of time is just have a higher power output per Powerwall. So unless you plan
to expand your system with, with, with like Powerwall three has an option for one that doesn't
have an inverter in them. So it's like cheaper to just attach. But then again, so it only makes
sense if you want to expand the system really, other than that, it's a net loss for everyone that
has to, to, to replace them. And yeah, I mean, we know it's a big endeavor, like it's 10,000
Powerwalls in the US. You know, we don't know how many in Australia could be as much if not more,
because there's a lot of, there's a very high penetration of only energy storage and solar
in, in Australia. So probably bunch in Canada that needs to be replaced. Some in Europe,
even though Tesla was slower to, to, to develop the Powerwall market in Europe. So maybe if you
were 20 to 20, 22 model years in there, but still it's going to be a lot of Powerwalls to remove
and replace with Powerwall threes. And in the meantime, a lot of people are just, you know,
they want to be compensated. And I think that that's just fair. It's, it's sad that this,
that people have to do that. They have to go to court. Just, just, Tesla should just do the
right thing here. But again, what I've described before that, it looks like they haven't done
the right thing with this whole thing starts to finish. It seems like a no brainer. And also,
like they know exactly where all those Powerwalls are. They have them all on mind. They know exactly,
you know, like it seems like, Hey guys, like this is a, you know, significant problem, especially
if, you know, people have like, like support systems that are on CUSA backup or something
like that. Like, like why set themselves up for, you know, really catastrophic problem. It seems
like, okay, let's do the right thing. Yeah. And for also informed them, a lot of people were
informed from like my article, and then looking under Powerwall and they're like, Hey, it's been
discharged. Like I didn't see like an edification for it or anything like that. So yeah, just talk
to people. That's the good first, first slide. All right, two more news at a call. And then we
can take you guys question. If you have any question for us, put them in the comment section
right now. It's gonna be just a few minutes. So now we have all the details on the Mercedes Benz
CLA EV pricing and range have been released. And it's, it's impressive. It's an interesting
interesting price range and interesting range itself. So the 226 CLA 250 plus with
EQ technology, so that's the electric version starts at $47,250 with the 85 kWh battery pack
for 374 miles of range on a full charge. So that's, that's pretty good. And then you have the 350
formatic for the all wheel drive system that do you have the range on this one?
Here, the formatic, the range drop downs to 312 miles of range, which is still good.
And for the bigger powertrain, it just costs you $2,000 more. So it's not the end of the world
either. $2,500 more. Deliveries are starting next month. What else are the interesting details
about? I mean, we already seen the car. So a lot of the features here we know about already.
Yeah, so, so a lot of people are now comparing it to like model three, this is getting into
like the premium model three range stuff. It's very similar range, even higher on the
rear wheel drive system. Because the premium is $42, so it's a little bit more expensive.
But you get a little bit more range. And you get the Mercedes instead of a Tesla,
you get a 100 volt system too. You get 320 kilowatt DC charging. So that's also better.
It's a pretty compelling vehicle. I mean, you know, I think this is like Mercedes
maturing into an electric vehicle maker. Yeah, that's a fairly stuff. The earliest
stuff was, you know, kind of slapping batteries on a different platform. But this kind of feels
like another generation forward. The the grid, the fake grill is the thing that like most of
it is just the rest of the design, I think it's one of their better ones.
But the for the electric vehicles, I mean, but yeah, the fake grill is and I well,
that's all their vehicles, but also like their giant logo now they're putting the logo so big is
kind of a noxious. Yeah, it almost looks like a fan, you know, like a
like a radiator fan or something. Like a plane propeller in the front.
All right, Bullinger is dead. Again, probably for good this time, probably because it's not
the first time that I went on there or on these like kind of scaled back quite a bit.
So Bullinger for those who don't remember, like we used it was one of the first like
EV startup that we we covered a little bit more because it was interesting. It was first of all,
it was a truck. So they were early in trying to make an electric truck. And they were using
kind of they were the cyber truck before a cyber truck where they were like clean lines,
flat panels, simple as possible, even though cyber truck is not necessarily simple in some
ways with the apex of the roof and all that. But they had this idea of making like just a
rugged, simple vehicle that's all electric. But they raised some money, the effort didn't go
nowhere. And then they ended up having to be acquired by Moulin, which is kind of
it's kind of the well, in French, we have something that we call a fort 2 or a cabinet
you know that drawer in your in your kitchen that you put like everything in it like all the
stuff. Yeah, you just did you have that at your at your house like a kitchen cabinet that you just
you know, it's a drawer that you have like everything like a bunch of different things.
Like Moulin is that for electric, like they just have all the reject stuff that no one else
want. And they try to sell it to people that has been the their business model. And as not being
a successful one has been like a cash incinerator, and they've been like a dilution machine to on
the public market. And Bullinger was kind of like one of their more serious effort.
And when when the a junk drawer, thank you, skeptic, is a junk drawer of the electric vehicle
world. And and but now the the missed the last two payment cycle for employees. And they sent
out an internal email saying that they officially closed the doors now that's starting November
21. And the CEO of Bullinger and Moulin, the parent company, David Misery, who I would classify as
a CEO of the junk drawer, is said that he's going to make it right to those employees that
weren't paid in the last two cycles. But it's not clear how that's going to happen. So we're
sorry for everyone at Bullinger. Yeah, they did transition to these commercial trucks later on.
And you know, that's, you know, we had the company to Quebec here, Lyon, that was that did that
unsuccessfully. It's it's it's hard to compete in that market. But I really like their consumer
designs for the vehicle. Now I feel like Scout is kind of the the one that's like taking over
this this specific segment. And I like Scout, they're doing some good stuff. Yeah, I like Scout
too. I think they're doing, they're getting excitement from not just the EV crowd, like the
old time, you know, international harbors for people, but also the gas crowd, they have the gas
option. So and the EV purists are kind of like having a tough time with the gas option. But
like, let's be fair here, like the range without it is 350 miles. They have a very decent range
electric and you can get all the trick option. And if you want the generator option on top of it,
fine. And it boosts the range like 500 miles or so, which is not that crazy either.
All right. I might get out of here in a second. So oh yeah, okay. Yeah. All right. I think it's
time to seriously entertain the concern that Tesla is destined to fail. It's one thing to
describe their cash revenue reserves, making them too big to flush to fail. I don't know what the
point is there. I mean, sell completely would be would be hard for Tesla to fill it completely
at this point because they are not burning that much cash on the AI stuff. Like that's the thing
like Elon keeps saying that it's an AI and robot company, but they are not spending billions of
dollars on the AI like myth and Google and all that. So it's marketing more than anything else.
So just some kind of show notes. Are you streaming both as a short and regular video this week? I'm
saying two ongoing streams and it's hurting my brain. We are now our software stream yard
post something that's easier to look at on the phone. So if you're on the phone on YouTube,
you'll see a phone version. If you're on desktop, you can pick a desktop version.
Hopefully that's helpful for some people. Is that just on YouTube? Do people have that option?
I think it's YouTube, maybe Facebook. I don't know. We'll have to look, but YouTube is our primary
place. But like a shark tank, they must swim to survive there over. I could crush them if this
continued to fail trend isn't corrected. Yeah, it's true that like car business can go under
very fast. Even if you look healthy and then your demand just crash, it's expensive to maintain. So
there is this chance, but you know, the Tesla's demand has been slowly declining with like, I
think it's going to bottom out probably soon in most markets, except China. China is probably
going to be squeezed out much lower within the next three or four years. But it's not,
end of the world is just like, Tesla is probably realistically like a hundred billion dollar
automaker and maybe a hundred billion dollar energy storage company. And then, you know,
that's, that's like a fifth of the current market cap. Well, you less than that, probably like
eight to seven. Yeah. All right. Some holiday news, perhaps. Skeptic got an email today
from Tesla saying that they're selling a Tesla bot action figure. Yeah, there we go.
You might have to revise your estimate upwards because
selling action figures now. Big market, like Mattel, watch out. Yeah.
Now that the real RoboTaxi servers are coming online, I think it's going to be a wake up call
for all the pumpers who have been claiming it'll be an infinity money glitch.
You know, that's what I've been waiting for for a bit. Like, oh, we cannot scale,
like they are launching in like eight new cities in the next six months or so. Like,
it's, it can clearly scale. But I don't know. I think I don't, I'm not sure that's going to
happen. I think Elon is, it's a call at the core of it. It's a call and they're going to find excuses
not to believe this for the longest period of time. I think, I think the, the real impact
is going to actually happen when they do solve self-driving. I think that's where people are
going to, are going to reverse on Tesla, where they're going to, you know, Tesla's going to solve
it and there's already going to be plenty of competitors in the market. And, and then the,
there's going to be a race downward for pricing and it's going to be a commodity and
there, it's all going to be about cost per mile and the profit margin are not going to be crazy on
this. And, and yeah, it's just, it's just not as big of a market and a profitable opportunity as
most people think Robotex. It's cool as a lot of opportunity to reduce crashes, save lives.
But in terms of actual like money maker, it's, it's not as crazy as people think.
All right. In 2019, I got a ride to a local EV meeting in a new owner's model three. He was so
convinced this car was going to make money as a Robotex. How many disenchanted owners had
prodded by Musk Fibs? Yeah, a lot. Yeah, a lot. I don't know if I really bought into that, but
I thought it was like a nice perk, nice possibility. And there's probably a lot of people in that
camp as well. Like, yeah. Or people that also thought like myself, I was like, yeah, I mean,
I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon, but at least Tesla is going to upgrade my computer
and I'm like a new computer and all that. And that's, so the bigger impact was like realizing
that you shouldn't believe what Elon tells you about making things right. It's not his priority.
All right. Let's switch gears to Aptera. Any new takes on Aptera now that looks like they're
finally making a bit of progress toward assembling potentially dozens of vehicles?
Yeah, I've seen they have a few bodies now, they have a few battery pack. So things seem to me
advancing into like maybe a larger test fleet to validate about the production process, but also
the production units. So it looks like they're doing like a little run of pre-production vehicles.
Yeah, the stock has been somewhat holding too. So that's good. I mean, I haven't checked it in a
little bit. Let me get a little price check on Aptera just for fun here. SEV on the stock market,
548. So it's up 6% after hours. Makes no sense. Like these low volume stock, $150 million market
cap. So look, I wouldn't recommend buying the stock necessarily because they're going to need
more money and they need to sell stocks to make more money. And they can do that up to $75 million
right now. And you're probably going to need all of that. And right now that's half of the market
cap. So that's a 50% dilution rate. It's not good for the stock, but it does mean that they might
be able to actually get the money to produce a few of these. And if they may do it right, people
would probably like them because I think it's a very interesting product. And maybe they can
ramp up production too. I don't think there's a market for like $40,000, $40,000 of those a year,
but 10 to $12,000 a year. And that's a pretty decent vehicle program. And then they can sell
their solar technology to other companies, especially trucks, trailers and things like
that would make a ton of sense. So maybe, but this is a long term scenario here.
All right, moving on from the YouTube, I've seen 14.2 looks like a breakthrough for self driving
that started the March of nine. The main issue left seems to be the last few feet like parking
in some navigation. I would say from YouTube videos, you're not getting the full picture.
You'll know something big is happening when Tesla starts publishing results, when normal
people start having a good experience. And maybe that'll happen. But you know, we'll need to see
that from regular drivers. And I would argue that March of nine started before that, like as soon as
you were like feature complete, that was Elon's term. That's when the March of nine starts. So
you have all the features that can bring you from A to B door to door parking to parking.
That's when the March of nine starts. And so it's been going on for a while, but it takes a long
time. Like I think even covered, he said that when he was at Tesla 22, I think he left in 2022.
He said like they got like a few lines in already. There's a lot more to go.
Yeah. All right, with instability and climate chaos across the globe, bi-directional charging is
turning greater use. Is there one manufacturer leading in this category? I wouldn't say necessarily
one. I mean, in the US, like every Chevrolet and GM car made now has bi-directional capability.
Not with the protocol, though, not with the open protocol. So you absolutely need to have GMs.
They can detect if you use something else in their own thing. So that's the I think
they should be like, everyone should be on the open protocol. And then you buy your
electric car. It's yours. You can use it as you want. It's your battery pack. Use it like you want.
So that's the advantage. But you're right. I think most of them, not all automakers are
on board with it. I just think that they all need to get on board with the open protocol now, which
I think it's going to happen next few years. Yeah. I mean, that's people are going to consumers
are going to demand it. Like, if it doesn't do that, I'll go get another car. It's like carplay.
All right. Musk painted Tesla into a corner because he overhyped FSD, then removed sensors
that would have gotten it closer to 100% safe driving. He simplified ADAS to sell it easily,
but that plan backfired. Cuscutting is a big thing. Like Elon love Cuscutting. They remove
everything from these cars. And FSD was not spared from the Cuscutting effort. So there's
some truth to that. But, but yeah, I think the first part of Dean's comment is the one that
makes the most sense and the one that I've been admiring the most is that FSD is great
in a vacuum on its own. It's like, it's an incredible product. It's the best level to out
there. The whole problem is the marketing around it. Sorry. I think we lagged out for a second.
I was saying that the main problem is that you have to compare it to its name and corporate to what
this, you know, Elon has been selling it as was, it's going to become a full self-driving system.
As soon as you start preparing it to that, then it's the worst product ever.
Yeah. All right, let's move on. Reflecting the sun says we are losing Earth's albedo,
getting darker at a rapid pace, absorbing more energy, Earth's energy imbalance has doubled
in 20 years. Can we paint all cars with a highly reflective paint to offset? You know,
I think that the idea there is that Earth is less reflective when a city is built versus like
plants which cover most of the Earth when you build, you know, pavement or whatever. It's darker
and even more importantly, like as the ice caps, you know, kind of recede those, that snow is,
you know, replaced by darker stuff, which is way less reflective, absorbs more heat.
I don't know what you do. You paint everything white. That's what you got to do.
I don't think cars are a big part of that though, are they? Like volume with cars?
Yeah, I mean paint the roads white. That would be way more effective and cheaper.
Probably.
Happy holidays. Question for Seth, did you see solar panels or had the chance to talk with local
about it? Sorry if you already discussed this since I just started watching Halfway Through.
Yeah, I did see a ton of solar panels, but they're, you know, very bespoke. There's,
everyone's every day. So, and obviously lots of sun. There's also lots of wind at the moment. So,
you know, you would expect to see some wind power as well, but mostly just solar panels. You see
like four or five on a house, kind of just wired up, you know, homemade style. You know, I'm in
Havana mostly. So, you know, it's more of an urban, you know, people don't have them in their yards,
but they're just hanging out on the roofs. And that, you know, that'll power your bike for,
you know, a day. So, you're getting free electricity. I think, I think, you know, I don't
want to call this the third world because there is, you know, quite a bit of education here and
everything, but I think poorer countries are starting to really feel the, you know, solar panels,
electric vehicles like you can have. You don't have to pay anybody, you know, for transportation.
So, that's nice. Your own power plant. Yep. They're requiring our power wall
tubes to be at 80% standard charge unless you override it every 72 hours, not what was described
to us when we bought them. Is that the, what's happening? I've seen worse than that. I've seen
like lower, like no more than 12%. I've seen some of them being discharged completely. So,
if that is related to the recall, that's actually one of the better situations.
But, but you're still, it's still not fair. You should be able to use them however you want.
All right. So, this is nice to see Mercedes build a truly competitive BEV sedan competition
breeds innovation. Yeah, man, I'm, I'm really like kind of pumped about this car. Like it's very
tempting. It's not crazy expensive, you know, from Mercedes and it's got all the specs you like.
It's really built well. I don't know. It's very tempting.
All right. A few episodes ago, someone asked about corrosion prevention in EVs. I was just
looking at the Polestar website and they're advertising a 12 year corrosion guarantee
or anything like corrosion in EVs. Yeah. I mean, for Tesla, it was a big problem at first.
Like a lot of people were concerned about, especially here in Quebec. Yeah. We have
you know, tough winters, a lot of snow. We're not, we're not too big on salt here at least.
Like some places, they use a lot of salt for, for their, I mean, we still do, but I think most
like municipalities prefer like sand and little rocks. So, yeah. Yeah, you have to,
you know, it's a decision that you have to make. If you're buying a new car, you know,
if you want to, for it to retain its value for longer period of time,
you should treat it to, there's anti-conversion corrosion prevention system,
you know, clear code to the house. There's a lot of things you can do to help on that front.
And yeah, if you're buying a more expensive, so that's the main thing, like corrosion,
you're going to have it on non-electric vehicles too. It's just, EVs can be a little bit different.
There's like a few things like with the Tesla, one of the things that happens like behind the wheels,
the torque is so crazy for not a lot of electric cars already these days, but Tesla was like one
of the early ones. So people didn't really realize that, but you will kick off a lot of stuff,
including that salt, including that, you know, things that if it ends up on your chassis will
create corrosion, that will kick up a lot faster. So just that alone can be a big factor.
So it's not really the way that you build EVs that, you know, is more likely to
end up in corrosion. It's just, you know, some little factors like that that you can address.
Like I just put these mudflaps behind my wheels and that helped the ton to prevent corrosion
in the back of the wheel. So that's a main one. I didn't actually get my mine clear-coded.
Did you? Did you get yours clear-coded? We do. We had a sponsor for a while that did that.
Maybe we should have asked him about that, but mine, mine looks pretty good. It's 2018 model
three performance and it still has very minimal corrosion on it. So not 12 years, 12 years actually
pretty good. And they're good on Paul Store to offer that. All right. That's pretty much it for
us this week. We're going to let's go before he gets kicked out of the restaurant and go back to
enjoy a beautiful Cuba. It's still, still the sun is out there where it's super dark right now.
All right. Thanks everyone for listening to the show this week. Thanks to you Climate Exchange
for sponsoring this show and we're going to see you same time, same place next week. Have a good one.
About this episode
The latest episode dives into the recent setbacks for Tesla's RoboTaxi program, revealing a drastic reduction in projected vehicle numbers from 500 to just 60 by year-end. The hosts discuss the challenges Tesla faces in achieving full autonomy, contrasting it with competitors like Waymo. They also touch on the new Mercedes-Benz CLA EV, which offers impressive specs and pricing, and the closure of Bollinger Motors. Additionally, the episode highlights Tesla's Powerwall recall issues and the implications of ongoing legal challenges.
Original notes
In the Electrek Podcast, we discuss the most popular news in the world of sustainable transport and energy. In this week’s episode, we discuss a big Tesla Robotaxi setback, the new Mercedes-Benz CLA EV, Bollinger is over, and more.
Today’s episode is brought to you by Climate XChange, a nonpartisan nonprofit working to help states pass effective, equitable climate policies. Sales end on Dec. 8th for its 10th annual EV raffle, where participants have multiple opportunities to win their dream model. Visit CarbonRaffle.org/Electrek to learn more.
The show is live every Friday at 4 p.m. ET on Electrek’s YouTube channel.
As a reminder, we’ll have an accompanying post, like this one, on the site with an embedded link to the live stream. Head to the YouTube channel to get your questions and comments in.
After the show ends at around 5 p.m. ET, the video will be archived on YouTube and the audio on all your favorite podcast apps:
We now have a Patreon if you want to help us avoid more ads and invest more in our content. We have some awesome gifts for our Patreons and more coming.
Here are a few of the articles that we will discuss during the podcast:
- Elon Musk slashes Tesla Robotaxi fleet goal from 500 to ~60 in Austin
- Elon Musk admits other automakers don’t want to license Tesla’s ‘Full Self-Driving’
- Tesla announces expected FSD approval date in Europe, regulators deny
- Tesla faces class action over Powerwall recall that leaves people with bricked batteries
- The Mercedes-Benz CLA EV starts at under $48,000 with impressive driving range
- Bollinger Motors is dead again – probably for good this time
Here’s the live stream for today’s episode starting at 4:00 p.m. ET (or the video after 5 p.m. ET:
https://www.youtube.com/live/OsXJ2KY7VYY
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