Tesla Vs Non-Tesla EVs: Charging, Costs, and Road Trip Realities from Consumer Reports!
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Tesla Vs Non-Tesla EVs: Charging, Costs, and Road Trip Realities from Consumer Reports!
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Welcome to another In Wheel Time podcast, a 30 minute mini version of the In Wheel Time car show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11am central.
Yes, it is the In Wheel Time car talk show Coming up.
Keith Berry, consumer Reports.
We're going to talk about EV road trips.
Alright, that's going to scary to me, but we're going to do it anyway.
Conrad has this week in auto history.
Comes with a real long extension course, and we'll get you caught up on the stories making car news this week.
Howdy, along with Mike out of this world.
Mars, mr Zoom, that's a new name for you Zoomie, zoomie, mars, conmz, mz, uh, king, conrad, king.
Conrad DeLong is here with us.
We need more, jeff Zekin, as always.
I'm Don Armstrong, glad you could join.
No, i'm sorry, i'm George Goble.
George Goble, glad you could join us this Saturday morning, our live version, and every Saturday it's usually live Almost all the time.
It's not dead yet 99%.
Yeah, the next couple of weeks is not going to be.
I'm going on vacation.
Yeah, i'm going to be joining David Ainsley and the UP of Michigan.
Yeah, you're going to be a Uper, i'm going to be a Uper.
I pee, u-p, we all pee, and then we're going to.
We're going to fly into the Chippewa International Intergalactic Airport.
Boy, enter your arms, tired Yeah.
But uh, so we're going to fly in up there on next Saturday, Sunday, We Uh-huh.
Taking Leslie with me.
I am.
And she's off the new job so quickly.
Well, she's not on the new job.
Oh.
That doesn't start till next month He's getting.
why does he need to know all this?
I know I don't, i don't understand, Because you know he's writing a book.
He's really old lawyer.
I want to live like Paris Lee.
Don, what is the last time you took a vacation?
November last year.
Yeah, i was going to say how that worked out for you.
Not too well, like a turd to punch bowl.
So, at any rate, uh, it looks as though Mr Mars that uh, i see somebody from consumer reports kind of peeping around the corner there Peeping around Yeah, we've got no audio yet.
Oh, we've got no audio yet.
So they're working on audio.
But at any rate, so we are going to talk to Keith Berry here in just a moment, once Mr Mars gets us all lined up.
Is a EV right for your next road trip?
Because you know that there are people out there that have purchased an EV here in the past nine months or so And they want to go visit Aunt Mary in Wisconsin.
Well, think about that for a minute.
It's a long drive and a lot of charging.
Yes, it's a 1200 mile trip to Wisconsin.
There's a reason.
Those EVs tell you where the charging stations are.
And we're going to talk about that And we're going to talk about many things.
We have many questions.
Talk about Aunt Mary.
No, aunt Mary has passed away, unfortunately, but uh.
I go visitor.
Okay, i have no idea, just keep going.
Here you know what I can do.
Oh, good job.
See, turn him off.
No, just teasing, but at any rate, they have surveyed over 2000 Americans.
The survey was conducted from April 30.
From April, 30% of the respondents said they would definitely or seriously consider buying or leasing an EV, but 61% of respondents said that charging logistics is holding them back.
Well, 54% cited the number of miles an EV can go before it needs to be recharged as the reason they aren't going electric yet.
Yeah, um, what do you think, would you?
I mean, if I had an EV, i just spent, let's just say, $50,000 on an EV a nice one, okay, cause you can get them a lot cheaper these days.
And they claim that you could get 300 miles on a charge.
Well, okay, you can get 300 miles on a charge from my experience, if you go about 30 miles an hour and don't feather the throttle, don't, don't do anything.
Put it on cruise control.
Turn the AC off.
roll the windows down, Pretty much.
Well, you know what We talked about that last night and I was.
we talked about Kylie, my granddaughter, licensed, And I'm thinking one of the lesser EVs, lesser so far as mileage, that you go would be good for a first time driver back and forth to school, In my opinion.
maybe a weekend dance.
And how much were you spending planning?
on spending Well, depending on what a lower end is in the market, but I'm thinking that would be a good start.
Lower to mid 30s, I think.
I got 20s I got $30,000 to spend.
That's the top of my budget And I could probably go find an EV or a partial EV, a plug in hybrid something.
Am I going to do that Or am I going to go buy an ICE engine, internal combustion engine, put it under the hood?
No, it's friends over for a marker.
And then and then we are pretty much only limited by the gas stations.
The gas stations, the distance between gas stations, because I can always pull into a gas station and fill up the tank and be have a full tank And if you get really good gas mileage you could probably go 500 miles If you get, you know, 30, 40 miles to the gallon, which you can in some internal combustion engines.
You can do anywhere in about 15 minutes.
Five.
Because generally those cars have a small tank to begin with.
So all I can think of is that 30 grand to spend.
Am I going to spend an electric?
It's going to limit me And I got to stop and charge it for 30 minutes at least.
I think the genius hotel chain that comes up with hey, stay with us and free charging stations And they're they're frequent enough around And I think those are the people who are going to make the market.
The two hotels that are far from here.
They have charging stations.
The the new there's a new Hampton, i think that they just built recently, and then the other one down just another quarter mile.
With the way they've got to, i don't know if they're Tesla's, but they just got the hookups for it.
For the electric They're in the back of the hotel Nice.
That is there in the back of the hotel.
Well, it's not in.
It's not where you've got all your handicap in the front and under the entrance and all that.
They're pushed a little bit for the back.
So but to answer your question, i think of lesser value, ev lesser mileage would be for a younger person.
Let me tell you something Based on my urban, based on my experience with a new driver.
I'm going to go buy a $3,000 car that probably has, i don't know, 100, 150,000 miles on it.
That, generally speaking, is a good car.
It's reliable, dependable And you know you've got all the proof in the pudding, because they've been building the same car forever and ever.
Got all the bugs worked out of it, all the recalls have been taken care of.
Okay.
So it's got a little door ding in it, a little whiskey bump here and there.
That's okay.
There you go.
If you want a nicer car, here's a can of polish, here's a wash bucket.
Get out there and make it look as good as it can.
What's wrong with that?
Well, the first thing I bought Rochelle was a full-size pickup truck, that was.
And then the first thing we bought Austin was actually the Yukon, with no five mile an hour bumpers on it So you just barely touch anything with the bumpers and it crushes the front end of it Or the other vehicle.
Yeah, so he's been very good at not having those issues.
That's good.
Did you move your microphone a little bit closer?
You know That close enough.
Would you, how's your slapping hand?
doing Not as good as Kathy's.
All right, then we need Kathy to come here.
Yeah, exactly, but there are lots of challenges.
Mr Mars, how are you doing over there?
Apparently he's not doing too well.
He was going well, but now it's not.
It's a connection to Connecticut.
Is that what it is All right.
Yeah, George says he's got.
A friend has a Tesla 3 and he had to stop twice going between Temple and Houston And the car overheated in this ambient temperature and it said bring to the service station, To the Tesla service station To the Tesla repair facility.
There's a Tesla facility at just 59, just before 36, on the West side, left of the freeway.
Yeah, there's a Tesla repair place up at Rankin Road and 45.
Yes, Yeah, it's a nice building, but that's interesting that.
so I know that they have coolant in them, a special kind of coolant to keep the batteries and all the electrical stuff cool, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because I was always told to keep water and things liquid.
away from that.
Well, this is again.
it's basically a radiator for the batteries, because they want to keep the battery temperatures down so that they don't get a thermal runaway.
Yeah, That's not good, because usually that winds up with the fire department having to come on the side of the road.
Multiple times because they're very hard to put out.
Yes, exactly So.
At any rate, as we continue to work on our interview here no-transcript I'm just going to go down the list here of the notes that we have See consumer reports.
Tips for EV road trippers Plan your route.
And all I can think of is well, yeah, you've got a computer in there, great big one that really does good GPS, plan your route.
But you have to plan it with EV charging stations on the route.
So forget that off-roading stuff that goes back off into the woods And you know, like you would normally go to grandma's house and enjoy the scenery, because you ain't going to get a charge out there, unless you know granny's got a good generator, exactly.
Another point is download apps for the major charging networks.
So EV Go, charge Point, electrify America, volta, amp Up and others.
Those are available on your phone And you know you can link your phone to your car.
So those are some tips Before we get to our guest this hour.
It's only taken 10 minutes to get him all hooked up here.
You ready there, mr Mars, believe.
So All right, keith Berry, good morning, and it's kind of like you being in line to get a charge at the EV charging station.
Here you are.
Finally, yes, i am here and it works.
But you know, after a little, after some hiccups, and you know the way I tend to view where we're at right now with charging infrastructure is that 10 years ago I had a landline.
I don't have a landline anymore And you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago I mean, we're not in the bag phone days anymore of EVs, we're probably in the like, the Nokia days of EVs, the early iPhone days.
Or the dial up AOL Yeah, no, no, no, we're well, you know.
You know, mom, don't pick up the phone.
I'm on, no, don't.
Yeah, we're not that world anymore.
But look behind you, You got a.
you got a compact 186 computer behind you.
It's an Apple IIc.
Well, there you go.
Yeah, we're in the kind of you know and I do.
there actually is a landline there but it's not hooked up to anything.
So we're in that kind of we're in that kind of world right now where people are, you know, figuring out.
you know what, what's going to work for this, what's going to work for that, and you know we're finding the.
you know it's.
obviously it's different in Texas, but average nationwide, that the average you know road trip is, you know, about 284 miles each way And that's, you know, the average summer road trip.
And most people, you know, don't put, you know, a full EV range on a car.
So for the everyday drive, most people plug in at home and they charge at home.
But you know, we're starting to see what we're really starting to get questions from is, you know these?
we're starting to see these, these rentals.
now Hertz is now, you know, renting Teslas and, you know, has Tom Brady out there and I'm from New England So I've got feelings about that.
But aside from that, you know he's.
so people are for the first time, i think, when we've got sort of these cars with ranges more than you know, 80 miles or so, these are cars that can do 99% of what folks want to do on a daily basis.
But, like you said, if you're driving Texas to Minnesota, it's going to be a very different experience.
Yeah, and because, first of all, we know that the car that's rated for 300 miles of battery life before you have to plug it in ain't really 300 miles.
It's somewhat less than that.
Particularly if I'm driving.
And if Mike Mars, mr Leadfoot over here is driving it, it's going to be a lot less than 300 miles.
So we have to stop along the way as we head north and we're going to go up I-45 here in Houston and we're going to go to Dallas.
I'm going to go through Dallas to head up north And once we get to Dallas, well, we're hoping.
We're hoping that we can make it to Dallas on one single charge, because Dallas is about depending on where you're going from is about 200, 250 miles, but that's going to be stretching it a lot And my heart at last 10 miles.
Your panic struck.
Yes, there's a lot of puckering going on there, so we have to do some planning, and what I was reading before we got on the air with you your press release on this subject, and that is there's some apps that you can use, but for the most part, don't most electric vehicles have a built in kind of system that tells you where the next charging station is.
Oh, absolutely Only a handful don't, and most of them.
The nice thing about them is that they are tied into the vehicle so it can know exactly what the vehicle's state of charge is.
It can know exactly what's best for the battery, where to plug it in, so it kind of tells you what to do.
You're not going to want to take on a charge when the battery is at 80% state of charge because it's going to take forever to get to that last 100%.
So it's going to let you kind of dip down a bit and then bring you back up again, and a lot of these will also.
They've got these fancy algorithms that will figure out just to minimize the amount of time that you spend waiting at a charger.
The problem is, is what we're hearing is that sometimes it'll show a charger in your infotainment system, in your navigation, and you'll get there.
And, especially if you're not driving a Tesla, it might not be working, or someone might have their truck parked across it, or it might be behind a locked gate or in a closed parking garage and the hours haven't been updated.
So that's kind of that.
That's where we're at that sort of early cell phone landline level right now when it comes to the charging infrastructure.
Or it's at the dealership and you have to talk to a salesperson while your car is charging.
Exactly, or it's well, that's not our brand of car, you can't charge that here.
So yeah, absolutely So yeah, and we've found that even in the Northeast, where there's a little more density of chargers here, that every so often just something will go wrong and that's not going to.
That's not going to work if you're counting on it.
And the Northeast is such a welcoming personality to people when you step on their property to do something they don't want you to do.
Well, yeah, a lot of these are yeah, a lot of these are in highway rest areas and you've got five people lining up for the same thing and you have to.
who is there first?
Yeah, And that's another thing.
Let's talk about the time it takes to get that 80% charge.
When you've only got 5% left and you have to stop at this particular place and then wait for 30 minutes to get, hopefully, an 80% charge on it and you're not the only one And there are people in line to get that.
I mean, how frustrating is that.
When was the last time you had a line at the gas station?
The 70s?
Yeah, at least you're here in Texas.
That's usually not a problem because it's a gas station on every corner.
Yeah, now, i mean, the good news is that we're getting cars with 800-volt architectures and they can add 150 miles in a few minutes.
And I don't know about you, but I got to use the facilities every so often about every 300 miles or so anyways while driving, so you can kind of dovetail those two together.
But at the same time, yeah, it is a difference.
I mean the road trip, i think, for a lot of Americans, a lot of people, sort of anecdotally that we're speaking to, there's a hybrid and there's an EV, and the EV is great for 99%, but when you got to go to grandma's house or someone's house or whoever's house, you've got that other vehicle that you can take.
So it isn't in that fully road trip sense.
And back to that metaphor again you'd have your cell phone for most of your calls and then you'd have your landline for when you want to make that 45-minute phone call.
When you guys did the American Experiences Survey?
what really stood out in this survey of over 2,000 people?
that, when it comes to charging electric vehicles and electric vehicles in general.
What did you find out?
Yeah, what two things really stood out was just how different the experiences for Tesla drivers versus non-Tesla drivers.
We found that that supercharger network they were early, they got really good locations and they just kind of work.
It's the hardware and the software and the vehicles and the infrastructure all designed to work together And that's a different experience than folks who are driving and they're trying to deal with Electrify America, ev Go.
Not that, nothing against any of these individual systems, but it's a lot more types of cars and it's a lot more types of chargers and that software handshake has to take place And they might not be right out front, they might be in the back of the shopping mall parking lot by the dumpsters where you have to plug in And you're in an unfamiliar area in the middle of the night and it's sort of where is this thing I'm looking for?
There's no big, bright lit up sign.
So we're finding that, even though when people buy EVs they're thinking, oh, i'm not going to have enough charge, i'm afraid of, you know, they've got that range anxiety, but then once they own one and drive it for a little bit, what replaces that is this idea of well, i know I can charge at home and that's great and I don't have to stop at the gas station Every morning.
I get out my car as a full charge, i can make it to work, no problem.
But this idea of well, i had to use a public charger this one time because I was going on a ski trip or something, and it just didn't work.
And I think that the infrastructure and there is some there are some big investments, public and private, being made in infrastructure right now, because automakers can't sell these cars if they don't have places to plug them in.
But we're finding that you know there really needs to be a change around the infrastructure and beefing it up and making sure that there is a place that you can plug in while you're on the road.
Speaking of plugging in, what do you think about?
Have you gotten any information or feedback yet on this obvious move that all the manufacturers are moving over to the Tesla charge?
plug?
Yeah, i mean right now it is a bit of a wait and see because you know we're hearing 2024.
We tested out there are a couple of stations in sort of Midstate New York that we drove out to test out some sort of pilot stations that had this magic dock where you could plug in a non-Tesla vehicle at a supercharger.
The main obstacles we found were that just the way that the cord length was, they're all designed to fit to a Tesla.
So if you have something where you know where your your charge for it is in the back of the vehicle or it's on the other side you might not be able to fit in the parking space the right way to fit the cord.
And that's something you know.
It's like the littlest you know.
It's like why didn't we standardize what side the gas tank was on way back or at least make pumps that could go over to both sides, which I know are becoming more common now?
But you know, the 16 foot cable might not work in a couple of play in a couple of situations, depending upon how they're set up.
So if these things are physically set up for Teslas, the hardware I mean the hardware might work.
The software might work.
The charging is totally fine, it's great, the location is great.
But if you can't park your car there, it's kind of the it's kind of the basic issue.
So it's really kind of a wait and see.
Well, i have to tell you, i experienced that when I had the Kia EV6 a couple of weeks ago and the charge port there at work, by work, it was only a 110 outlet to begin with.
Tesla was right next to it, but I thought, well, i'm going to be here for eight hours, we'll just stick it on there.
The 110 outlet.
Well, guess what?
The charge port was at the back on the right rear of the EV.
Yeah, and so I have to maneuver into an angled parking place, but I have to back into it, which is, you know, a two or three move have to get the to get situated.
Yeah get it in there between the parking lines And it was kind of a pain but I managed to do it.
And then once I got in there, it was made for obviously something to pull into this thing and plug it in in the front.
So I had to stretch the cord all the way around the back to get it to work.
So I understand completely what you're saying.
But so as far as these I don't want to call them fly by night, but these charging stations I have a card for EV go, because that's what the whole foods down the street for me, and it seemed to work just fine, except I didn't update the credit card on that account.
So I had to wind up calling them and say here's my new credit card.
Oh OK, we got all the information, let me go ahead and turn the pump, if you will, on for you.
And boom, i had it.
But it was another 10 minute delay to get to get the right credit card married to the EV go Card.
That starts the the system and it was only good at that for EV go correct.
Only good at EV go Because it wouldn't take a credit card.
So there's another another hassle with it.
You can't put in a credit card like you would at the gas station.
I thought that was kind of odd.
Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why people tell us they love that supercharger network.
You set it up one time and that kind of handshake takes place when you plug in the vehicle.
It's actually easier than a gas station and having to put in your credit card.
But you know, you're right, this stuff has to be foolproof and And and it isn't yet.
And I mean even things like, you know, accessibility.
If you don't have the, you know the, the Sort of the mobility to kind of you know These, these cords are heavy to drag this thing around the vehicle.
There aren't full service pumps where you can, you know, honk your horn and someone will come out and help you, right.
So I mean, that's that's another issue.
Even just, you know, just even accessibility around these things that you're kind of, you're kind of on your own, but these are early days and you know we haven't even settled on a standard for a for a charge port yet.
You know that the NACS versus the CCS there, but it does look like that access to that network is something that other automakers are realizing.
We absolutely, we absolutely need.
Keith, where can we find the consumer reports?
EV road trips?
log in.
You can find that at crorg and that article is.
That article is free.
And we also have a whole hub of information for EV owners, for EV Interested folks, for hybrid interested folks, for anyone who wants to learn more.
We've we've got information for you.
Well, we sure appreciate it and it's great to talk to you.
As always, we love talking to consumer reports.
They're great information and we wish you the best of luck and hope to talk to you again very soon.
Same thanks so much.
Thank you Thanks very with consumer reports.
We were gonna do this week in auto history But we don't have enough time for that because we had to run him a little bit too long To be able to get him in because I wanted to talk to him.
But we're going to do The this week in auto history in our next.
Okay after is that okay.
Yep, you don't mind flexible, okay, thank you, appreciate that.
You want to see.
My flexibility.
Yes, i do want to see that.
No, no, vw is going to use a small fleet of specially equipped Euro spec ID buzz minivans to provide ride hailing services to a closed group in a geofenced portion of Austin, texas, beginning this month using needs to move to Austin using mobile eye technology.
Ultimately, the company plans to expand to other US cities and serve the general public by 2026 In Austin.
The company will initially use short wheelbase versions of the ID buzz electric minivan Imported from Europe for the testing program.
They'll be equipped with mobile eye technology stack.
Later the company plans to transition to similarly equipped long wheelbase versions of the ID buzz, like those that will go on sale next year here in North America.
Because time now for a quick break.
We'll be right back on the in-wheel time car talk show.
Stay with us.
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About this episode
Exploring the realities of EV road trips, this episode features Keith Berry from Consumer Reports discussing the challenges and logistics of charging electric vehicles on long journeys. A survey reveals that while interest in EVs is growing, many potential buyers are deterred by charging infrastructure and range anxiety. The conversation highlights the differences between Tesla's supercharger network and other charging options, emphasizing the need for better planning and infrastructure for successful EV travel. Listeners will gain insights into the current state of EV road trips and practical tips for navigating the charging landscape.
Original notes
Ever pondered the difference a Tesla makes on a road trip compared to a non-Tesla EV? Jon us on the In Wheel Time Car Talk show, as we discuss the nuances of planning a road trip with an EV, from charging logistics to the distance your EV can cover before it starts looking for a recharge. We talk about the cost implications of owning a low-end EV and take look at the pros and cons of using an ICE on your road trip.
Our guest, Keith Barry from Consumer Reports, will be offering his insights on the different charging experiences of Tesla and non-Tesla EV owners. We cover the time it takes to bring a battery from 5% to 80%, and share some ideas on how to minimize the wait at a charging station. We'll also go through some of the the maze of the EV charging infrastructure and a look at the future of cars with 800-volt architectures. These future vehicles can add 150 miles in a matter of minutes!
Be sure to subscribe for more In Wheel Time Car Talk!
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