That Ferrari Show

That Ferrari Show That Car Show · Jul 3, 2026

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Person

Ryan Sabka

An expert who knows almost everything about Ferrari cars. He helps wealthy collectors find and buy rare models, and he owns an impressive collection of his own.

Term

A type of gearbox that lets the driver change gears using paddles behind the steering wheel instead of a gear stick and clutch pedal. It was high-tech in the 1990s but can feel jerky compared to modern automatic transmissions.

Car

Ferrari F355

A famous 1990s Ferrari sports car known for making one of the most beautiful, high-pitched engine sounds in automotive history.

Car

Ferrari F40

Widely considered one of the greatest supercars ever built. It has a twin-turbo engine, no driver aids like traction control, and was designed to be a raw, street-legal race car.

Place

Colorado Grand

A famous yearly road trip in Colorado where owners of incredibly rare and expensive vintage cars drive together through the mountains.

Car

Ferrari Luce

The Luce is an upcoming, high-end electric car concept from Ferrari, designed to run entirely on battery power while maintaining the speed and luxury the brand is known for.

Car

Ferrari 288 GTO

An incredibly rare, twin-turbocharged Ferrari from the 1980s that was built so the company could qualify for a racing series that was ultimately canceled.

Car

Ferrari 512 BBi

A classic 1980s Ferrari with a wide, flat 12-cylinder engine mounted behind the driver. It is famous for its wedge shape and high top speed.

Car

Ferrari 512 TR

An updated, faster version of the famous 1980s Testarossa sports car, featuring improved handling and a flat 12-cylinder engine.

Car

Testarossa Testarosas

The ultimate 1980s poster car, instantly recognizable by the long horizontal slats (strakes) on its sides and its very wide rear end.

Car

Ferrari F50

The F50 is a very rare, high-performance Italian sports car built in the 1990s. It was designed to bring the technology and sound of a Formula One race car to public roads.

Car

Ferrari 575M Maranello

A powerful, front-engine V12 grand touring car from the early 2000s designed for comfortable, high-speed road trips.

Car

Ferrari 360 Modena

A popular early-2000s Ferrari sports car that was the first to be built entirely out of lightweight aluminum.

Car

Ferrari F430

A mid-2000s Ferrari sports car that introduced a steering wheel dial to change driving modes and featured a highly advanced V8 engine.

Car

Porsche 959

The 959 is a rare, high-tech Porsche sports car from the 1980s. It was built to showcase the absolute limit of what technology could do at the time, featuring an advanced four-wheel-drive system and twin turbochargers.

Car

Porsche Carrera

One of the most famous and valuable vintage Porsche 911s ever made, built for racing with a lightweight body and a distinctive ducktail spoiler.

Car

Lamborghini Countach

The Countach is a classic Italian sports car famous for its extremely flat, angular shape and doors that open upward instead of outward. It was one of the most famous poster cars of the 1980s.

Car

BMW 335

The 335 is a sporty, mid-sized luxury sedan or coupe made by BMW. It is popular because it looks like a normal luxury car but has a powerful turbocharged engine that makes it very fast.

Car

Alfa Romeo 164

The 164 is a mid-sized luxury sedan made by the Italian company Alfa Romeo in the late 1980s and 1990s. It was designed to be a stylish and sporty family car.

Car

Porsche 911

The Porsche 911 is a famous German sports car known for its distinctive rounded shape and for having its engine located in the very back of the vehicle. It is designed to be both incredibly fast on a racetrack and comfortable enough to drive to the grocery store.

Car

Porsche Career Gt

The Carrera GT is an extremely rare and expensive high-performance sports car made by Porsche in the mid-2000s. It is famous for its incredibly loud, high-pitched engine sound and for being very difficult to drive because it lacks modern computer driving aids.

Car

And a man as time went on. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna get in so much

trouble. Today on that car show, it's that Ferrari show with our

buddy, the Ferrari whisperer himself, Ryan Sabka. We learn why

Ferrari values just keep going up and up and up. Why Ferrari

owners tend to be a little different than you and me. And

it's not just bank accounts. What Ryan would do if he became

Ferrari CEO tomorrow. Why it might be time to reconsider the F

one transmission cars, at least on cars like the 355. And why

yes, the F 40 isn't just the best Ferrari ever made. It's

quite possibly the best car ever made. It's Ryan Sabka talking

Ferrari, and it's that car show.

Hey, it's that car show. Dan is still away. We miss him and hope

to have him back again very soon. So it's me and Lindsay

tonight. And we are joined by our pal Ryan Sabka back to talk

Ferrari. Ryan was on a few months ago, of course, and it's

actually hard to believe that it's been a few months ago now.

But I guess what we had a phenomenal response to that

episode, despite the fact that it was recorded on my iPhone. And

it was all very last minute. We figured Ryan deserves a proper

episode. So here we are. And I'm guessing many of you listening

know Ryan or at least know of him because he really is one of

the most influential and respected experts in the Ferrari

community. He's a regular part of events like the Colorado Grand,

which is where I first met him. And he helps guide the

acquisitions of many of the participants of the grand and

other similar events. We've since become good friends and

regular breakfast companions. And it's always very cool to see

Ryan's own world class collection of Ferraris, which

includes a mic drop F 40 and several other cars of note. But

the world moves quickly these days. And in the past few months,

since Ryan was first on the Ferrari world has gotten even

crazier. The luce EV was announced. Ferrari values across

the board have skyrocketed, pushing some of what were the

more affordable Ferrari models into unaffordability for many

in Ferrari competitors like Porsche have made clear their

intent to more closely mimic Ferrari's way of doing business

and their result in profitability. So we've got a

ton to talk about tonight. Welcome back to the show. Ryan

Sopka. Thanks for having me. I'm honored to be back. It

honored to hear that our last minute episode in my garage

ended up being such a hit for you. Yeah. Fantastic. I mean,

they say sometimes spontaneous spontaneous stuff works the

best. And that was true for the episode with the two of you.

Yeah, I think so. That was a fun one. And like I alluded to in

the intro, it's only been three or four months. And yet, you

know, the market has continued to just, you know, explode. So how

is it that Ferrari values just keep going up, Ryan?

Well,

I believe when I was on last, I told you that I think my thoughts

on this are a little different than everybody else's. And I

feel it's essentially new money coming in. A lot of wealth was

created. I think a lot of generational wealth also was

transferred. And people have sort of accepted that cars are just

so you know, like as somebody who like, doesn't sell his cars,

like, the reason I have so many Ferraris is because I don't sell

one to buy one. It's like, the hoard just keeps getting bigger.

I think we can all relate to that problem in one way.

Yeah, it's like people are like, Oh, you're a collector. I'm

like, I'm really worried about hoarder. But that's okay. And

so I don't, don't write, I don't pay attention to

the value so much because to me, like, all I care about is the

money that I spend. I'd like to spend as little as possible

because I'm never going to see it again. Right? I'm never going

to sell the car if the car is worth 10 times as much. Okay,

well, my kids problem, most likely. And so tracking values

isn't really so much my thing. But by nature, I'm somewhat

exposed to it. And so what I think is happening is, as I

said, new wealth has been created, general generational

wealth has been transferred, cars are really cool. And some of

these guys like, I have so much money, and I would like to buy

one of these cool cars. And I'll give you a couple examples

why I think that. So I think last time I think one of the

examples I use was like a 288 GTL. Somebody now has just a

ridiculous amount of money. I mean, let's let's say they cash

out with the SpaceX IPO, you know, and do they care that a

288 GTL was $3 million. Not that long ago. And now it's $8

million. They're like, whatever, maybe $8 million. Now, I'm not

going to miss it. I really love this car. And they buy it. And

there's enough people who have that for a very finite number

of cars. And so it's coming in. I also think people are coming

in from other collecting hobbies like art, where it's not

unusual to spend $40 million on a piece of art. Also, and look,

I don't view cars as investments, okay, but but they are assets.

Okay, they are definitely assets. I don't see them as yeah, I

don't I don't view them as investments, at least for me

personally, right? But I think it's important to be smart

because they are assets. And this is not a trivial amount of

money. So my feeling with that is, as these guys come in,

chasing a finite number of objects, you know, and they

have lots more money than there are cars, like that's what

ratchets this up. And then here's the other aspect of it, too. I

do feel and the report card on this will probably come back in

like 10 or 15 years. But I do feel that people are starting to

appreciate certain Ferraris as maybe like the great

impressionist paintings, right? Like there's a lot of great

paintings of that impressionist era. But then there's like

Monet and Renoir and Degas and those are valued much higher

than the others. And I think, you know, there's amazing other

cars, like, you know, Lamborghini's got some awesome

cars and things like that. But I think Ferraris of a certain

era, are going to appreciate a different level because they are

regarded and a little bit of a different aspect, kind of like

those painters are, even there's other amazing painters of that

era. Now, I'll give you the other reason why I think that. So

one of the cars that's near and dear to my heart that I own is

my 512 BBI. I have one of the last basically 100 512 BBI's

it is an amazing car. I looked at many, many of them. I think

mine is without a doubt one of the best ones in the world. And

when I was buying it. So by the way, this is also a good story

of like, if you listen to think that like, I really know what

I'm doing, here's here's a good story. That's the counterpoint

to that I really don't know what I'm doing. When I went to buy

that car, like I really love that flat 12 architecture. And I

was torn is like too strong of a word. But I was deciding

between a 512 BBI and a 512 TR, both black, which is my

favorite color for Ferraris, both Cavalino winners. So they

were both really good cars. Right. And I think the 512 BBI

might cost that time. Like, I can't remember like $100,000

more than the 512 TR. And I remember thinking, you know, they

made 1000 512 BBI's. They've made 10,000 Testarosa's and all

and there's I think 2,500 512 TR's and one of your listeners

will correct me because it's up to my head when they will. But

and I and it's really hard to find a good 512 BBI like it is

almost impossible. And I just remember thinking like, you know

what, I should buy the 512 BBI because that car is going to

appreciate much faster than the 512 TR. And if I still want a

512 TR, there'll be many to choose from. There'll be still

relatively inexpensive. But the boxers gonna like shoot up in

value. Okay, well, here we are six years later. That same black

512 TR is probably worth four times what I could have bought it

for. And while my 512 BBI has gone up in value, it's probably

only gone up like 50%. Yeah, interesting. And and so what that

tells me is that there is an era of Ferrari that these going

back to like who's buying all the stuff is like the forgotten

era. And by the way, it is a sin 512 BBI should be a million

dollar car relative to all these other things. But it's a sin

that that they're, you know, 400,000 for like a pretty good

one and half a million for an exceptional one. That's ridiculous.

But what that tells me is the people who are coming in are new

collectors. And they're going after the cars that really

spoke to them. And that's why you see the cars going up.

F40, F50 Enzo, F12 TDFs going up. I mean, even things like

458s are going up a ridiculous amount. And and then and then

some cars are forgotten Daytona's relatively forgotten 512

BBI is all of all the boxers at 365 512 BBI and the BBI, you

know, and it just kind of like kind of speaks more to that. So

again, maybe in 10 or 15 years, I'll get the report card back on

that theory. But that that's my theory on what might be

happening.

So do you see and I think you kind of touched on this. I know

obviously when Enzo passed away, that impacted the values of the

cars that had been built up to that point. Are you seeing that

kind of inflection point matter as much today?

Well, okay, so just I was like, not even quite a teenager when

that whole thing happened. But of course, I've heard all the

stories, you know, as I, I grew up, and it was

like people paying ridiculous amounts of money for cars

because Enzo passed away, it was like Ferrari was going to be

done. And then there was a huge crash, and the cars were worth,

I mean, very low dollars, relatively speaking to what

people paid for them. And I mean, we're talking about I heard

stories of a dentist buying a warehouse and buying Daytona after

Daytona, and just stacking them in there because he thought he's

making so much money. And I mean, they all went to like 10% of

what he paid for them like overnight, virtually. Um,

he didn't unload them quickly enough.

Yeah, well, I mean, and look, you know, all things are overcome

with endurance, right? So we just wait long enough to be right

again. But, but I don't think we're in something like that.

But sort of the FOMO that I see, and the frenzy does does make

me squint a little bit. But again, don't underestimate the

amount of ultra high net worth individuals there are out there,

and how much money they have. Now, I will tell you this, for my

professional life, though, so you know, my professional life has

nothing to do with cars. But I am an expert in authentication

businesses and collectibles. And I have seen this happen other

collectible circles, where once people sort of figure out the

formula for understanding it, cracking the code, and they, and

they rush in, again, lots of buyers for relatively few items,

the value goes up. And then some people come in because they're

highly passionate about it. There's always a level of people

who are highly passionate, so they will always support the

hobby. So even if all the speculators, people who earn

in for money leave, there's always a base of passionate fans to

support it. But the question is, that passionate fans, are they

here? Because here's what's going to happen with first guys

who are coming in, buying these relatively new cars for quick

flips and quick turns. Once that kind of comes and goes,

they're probably gone from the hobby. And if there's not as

many buyers, I mean, it's supply and demand and price

equilibrium. Once there's not as many buyers, then the prices

will naturally depress, right? But how many passionate people

are there to support those prices with enough money? I think

there's enough people to support this at a pretty decent level.

Now, how high is this going to go? I don't know how low is it

going to go with these people leave? I also don't know. I'm

not particularly good at any of this stuff. But I've seen it in

my in my job. And that's what's going to happen. Again, I think

the true barometer is how many people are true Ferrari fans, how

many people want to have certain Ferraris that are out there.

And this is this is part of that. So do I think we see a massive

crash like Lindsay's your point, like the post Enzo death crash? I

don't think so. But I also don't know how high this is going to

go. And then I also don't know, you know, when the tide goes out

with what this looks like. But I will say that that there are so

many people who are passionate about Ferrari cars and who

appreciate Ferrari cars. And just so you know, all these great

events that we do that we're part of fuel that passion. Okay,

they give people places to sorry, the dog love dogs here too.

Unexpected guests.

That's right. They fuel the passion. And they allow people to

really understand, really understand the cars. And that

will form sort of like the basis for support for prices. And how

high and how low? Who knows.

Anybody guess that's that's what I think. It's not going to be

there's so many people who are true Ferrari fans and passion

about for us and for such an aspirational company, you know,

some people aspire to have a Ferrari one day, a 308, a

Testarosa, a 430, a 458, you know, like, like there will always

be those people.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How are Ferrari people different? And I

know, you know, there are lots of different types of Ferrari

people. But you're typical Ferrari fan. How are they different

from like a Lamborghini person?

Oh, I'm the worst person to ask that.

I have some ideas.

Well, I so listen, when I was growing up, the guy who owned a

Ferrari was this somewhat eccentric, somewhat quirky guy

who knew what oil he used, how much oil was in the car that

time, how to change belts. And he carried tools and you had to

use them. Okay. And not saying he could do all the heavy

lifting, but you could do light stuff and kind of understand

and, and was willing to put up with the inconvenience of a

somewhat sometimes unreliable car in exchange for the joy of

driving something exceptional. And I mean, not to do too much

stereotyping, but they were generally more entrepreneurial

than doctors or lawyers who grabbed who who gravitated more

toward German cars like Porsche. And, and then as time went

on. Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna get in so much trouble.

This is what we got to get some night. I was, was

also a regional director for the Ferrari Club and president for

the chapter for a number of years, both of those span, span a

number of years. And so I saw some of these changes happen in

real time. And it sort of changed from that to people who were

super excited about placing their order for what stitching did

you pick and what options and what special colors and things

like that. And it sort of became it went from being if you want

to call the show of anything, it was like a show of your taste

and your passion to becoming more of a show of wealth. Like I

like to say like four real Gucci handbags. And it's an

accessory. And let me tell you, Ferrari latched on to it and

they went from being a very hardcore sports car manufacturer

making a very few number of cars a year to a luxury good

manufacturer, tapping into the we are a luxury brand and

building the brand as a luxury brand, which is not the same as

being a hardcore sports car manufacturer. And by the way, they

use the sports car heritage to build the brand a luxury, but

they went after a different set of buyers and going public, just

turn the dial to 11 on that. And I'm probably gonna get in a

lot of trouble for that. But that is my opinion.

Yeah, yeah. When you see a car like the luce, like where is

your head?

Speaking of getting in trouble. Yeah, is it did it explode? I

mean, were you?

I process that as someone who's I was not surprised. Okay,

really? Okay, I was not surprised. I won't tell you all the

reasons why I wasn't surprised. But I felt that they were going

to take essentially the Apple electric car project and make it

a Ferrari project. Now, I think the part that I was surprised

at, and I knew it was coming, but yet I was still surprised is

how unfurrari they made it. I mean, honestly, if you stuck,

you were expecting an Apple but you were surprised by you

figured it would be like with a lot of Ferrari flavor. And that

turned out to not be the case.

Yeah, I mean, here's a company that's known for its elegant

design and all this great stuff. And they made this thing. I

mean, look, if it had a Nissan badge on it, nobody would bat

night. Yeah, right? Right? Yeah. Okay. And but no, but for

Ferrari do that. And look, I will tell you this, Ferrari is

certainly going after a different buyer. They're probably

going after the ultra rich person who wants to drive an

electric car. And they want to drive the most expensive electric

car they can buy that makes a statement about their wealth. And

Ryan, you asked me like, how do I feel as a died in the wall?

Yeah, yeah. Ferrari fan. I think the problem is what the

company signals to people like me is you are no longer our

target market. I don't think I trust me, I don't think you're

losing any sleep over not having me. But but it tells me

that and I think it's actually unfortunate because I think the

company and again, this is so far above my pay grade and

expertise. But as somebody who builds brands, especially like

in the collectibles industry, I feel like the company has such

a fantastic ability to make something that fuels so much

passion. It's not for today or tomorrow or even next year. But

for two generations ahead, that could basically I want to say

like provide cash flow, but provide relevance to for such a

long reach. And they are overlooking that in favor of

what they've done. And people will say, Oh, it's because they

part of the way is with pinnifrena and all that. Look,

pinnifrena is amazing. And that could be it. But I don't think

it's a simple one simple answer. But but the message is seems

fairly clear to me. And look, this is just my opinion. I don't

know anything anybody else doesn't know.

I think it's not a coincidence that I think the newest for our

you own is a 575.

575. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Is that kind of where you check out?

It kind of is. But I'll tell you why. I love the Maranello

platform. I just happened to have like one of the last

Maranello was made because it has all the the updates that I

really like the very late furan handling package has things

like a different steering ECU different chalk package. Amazing

things that I really like. But the Maranello campaigned at

Le Mans in both 575 and 550 forms. You had amazing drivers

like Colin McCrae ran a pro drive 550 at Le Mans. That car

performed spectacularly. It has like real racing heritage. And

the reason that that car did so well Le Mans is because the

streetcar was such a great starting platform. By the way,

boxers also ran at Le Mans. And they started with streetcars

and they converted them. And like, I mean, not as fantastic

finishes as the Maranello's. But I think it was more

reliability issues not because of performance. And that stuff is

like so cool. That's the stuff that like speaks to me. And so

that's kind of why I have that. I mean, you kind of go after

that. And it's like, this stuff kind of like drops off from

there, you know,

not a lot of racing heritage in the lucha.

Well, I don't know, you know, if Ferraris had to enter Formula

E, and they build the cars having all the lucha technology,

they might be able to part a little bit in there. But you

know, kind of kind of hard to see.

Yeah, so, you know, with all what's happening with Ferrari and

sort of its current, you know, state and all this, are we going

to revisit cars like, you know, the 355 and the 360? Are those

going to continue to go up? And even the F1 transmission cars?

I mean, are we going to start paying attention to those now

that, you know, we've written all the written all those cars

off, right? F1 transmission, terrible, whatever. But they

could be had for half the price of a of a good gated car, right

for the same model these days.

Well, well, well, that's a that's a different kind of

conversation. And I'll tell you a couple of things. Are those

cars going to continue to go up and use that in 355 and 360?

And I will say this. And I wouldn't watch it one of each of

those. Okay, so so full transparency. I don't want people

to be like, Oh, I'm talking my own book here. Okay, but I don't

sell my cars. So take it for you.

Relative to what other cars are and how much they cost and what

you get cars like the 360 are criminally underpriced, especially

manual cars. Now, the 355 you mentioned 355 F1 versus manual.

Now let's have a very frank discussion about that car in

particular, because I believe that is an exception. If I owned

an F1 355, I would never convert it to a manual car.

Interesting.

Go on.

Never. It is the one. So several things. First of all, that was

the first F1 car. It is a fully mechanical F1 system. There's

no fly by wire throttle. It is a hydraulic hydraulic actuated

clutch. And the paddles are what they are. And it is a very

analog system. You have to rev match just like you would in a

that system was not built in the Ferrari factory. They built

those across the street at the Formula One factory. At least the

first batch and then car to them across the street to the

Ferrari factory to install them in those cars. Like it is really

cool. And here's the other thing. People may criticize it for

its you know, quote unquote performance. But you know, you're

neglecting a couple of things. One is its relevance at the time

like this was like the coolest piece of technology at the

time. It still feels it's not it doesn't isolate you from the

car. You're still very integrated with the driving

experience. You have to as I said, match the revs, you have a

fly by you don't have a fly by our throttle, you have a cable

throttle. It's hydraulically actuated. It's not all these

computers and really taking you out of the process. Now, I

prefer a manual transmission. But again, if I had an F1 355, I

would never convert it. And by the way, this is going back to

supply and demand and price equilibrium. F1 cars are

substantially cheaper than manual cars. And so is it worth it

to you to spend that extra whatever percentage it is to

have that manual experience? Or are you happy saving that

money and really enjoying that F1 experience for what it is? And

I and I believe that probably too many people don't have that

that hard conversation with themselves. Now, once you get to

the 360, F1 is a little different. Now you have a fly by

wires throttle, a few other things. But then when you get to

the 430, the 430 is the first V8 car with it brand new engine

architecture. It so breaks away from the same engine

architecture started with the Dino is a V6 that carried all

the way through the 360. And the 430 was basically built

around that F1 transmission to make the shifts faster. The

inertia from the from the flywheel and the engine really

worked with it. And it's functional. Now manual 430s are

also really, really cool. But it's a little bit different. The

360 I think is the one that's kind of like the odd duck and I

will tell you this, as somebody owns a manual 360. It is one of

the best manual transmissions of any Ferrari, everything is

weighted correctly. It feels exactly right. It suits the car

just right. It really it really goes well with it. I feel like

with the F430, the factory manuals that I've driven, I've

driven a bunch of them. It's almost a little anachronistic

in that you feel like here's this car with all this

technology and and the manual sort of takes away from a little

bit. Now, to be fair, when the 360 came out, all of that

technology in the car was already like 10 years old. When the

430 came out, it was state of the art for its time. Yeah. So you

like kind of leap to have 20 years in technology. Right. And

so it's just something to think about. And again, I'm not like

I'm right. Now the people are wrong. Or I mean, this is just

my opinion. But I think everybody should have a

conversation with themselves when they're looking for remember

last time I said don't buy the wrong Ferrari for you. Yeah, have

that conversation. And by the way, these F1 cars are awesome

cars. Yeah, it is like I think we get to it's like, you know,

like I my friends and I joke it's like, yep, not not that

supermodel her her elbows are too pointy. You know, I mean,

let's let's let's be a little these are all amazing cars and

they are really and it's a privilege to own any one of them.

And the nice thing is is they've been they've been around long

enough that any lack of robustness in the technology has

all been kind of figured out. Like for example, if you have a

355 and the F1 pump is a weak part, well, guess what you can

put a 360 F1 pump in there, which is much more robust. There's

different workarounds for all this stuff, you know, and look,

this is all these are all amazing cars. And I don't think

anybody should rule them out or overlook them, particularly if

you are on a budget of any sort. Yeah. And again, just my

opinion.

Well, let's revisit that conversation if we could about,

you know, making sure you get the right Ferrari for you. What

was the gist of that? It was basically that you think you

know what you want, but there's a car that's probably the better

car for you. Yeah, well, it's like I compared it to 9 11s,

which and by the way, I'm a I have a big fan of air cooled 9

11s. I think that those are really amazing cars. But it's

it's, it's like each time Porsche made a new air cooled 9

11, it was a little bit better than the one before. Right.

Where I feel that Ferrari made different cars to solve

different problems. And I think last and the example I gave

was, you know, the 512 BBI was when it came out, it was largely

pan by journalists. There's like, there's no room for, you

know, luggage and it's kind of twitchy and says, now listen,

512 BBI was the fastest production car in the world at the

time. And that's what Ferrari made it do. And it kicked butt

with that. And then they complained, the cabin was hot

and all that test source comes out. They move the they move the

radiators to the sides and to the back cabin is much cooler. It

by that car could also carry plenty of luggage. But it was

also more of a touring car, because that's what they were

responding to that criticism that you can't take this car on

a weekend. It's, it's, it's a little twitchy,

more challenging to drive it where the Testerosa is like, I

mean, it is, I'm not people say truck like, I would never say

anything like that. But they are a little less drama, right?

And so if you're looking for, hey, I want my V12 Ferrari to be

exciting and drama, like that's probably not the car. They're

cool. They're amazingly cool. I don't take anything away from

it. But they're, they're not as drama filled as some of the

other ones. And by the way, that was by design. So my point is,

if you're looking for that, by the car that delivers that don't

buy the car that delivered the opposite of that. And that's where

people need to educate themselves on which Ferrari is right

for them. And just so you know, I also feel like if people

really did that, you'd see cars that are maybe relatively

underlooked, become more in favor. But again, people have to be

honest with themselves about what it is that they want. And, you

know, the nice thing is, is there's so many great resources

out there, so many great books. And, you know, you can, you can

learn a lot all on your own.

I love that that it's like, do your research, you know, like

really learn what each car delivers and what the experience

would be. But also, yeah, like you said, like be very frank

with yourself, like, what do I want? Do I want something I can

cruise in for the weekend? Do I want something that I'm going to

take to cars and coffee or like a quick zip up the coast in the

morning, and it's got some drama and, you know, make me feel

alive for a brief period? Like what am I looking for? Because

there is one that will give you but you have to do your

research so you know you're choosing the right thing.

That's right. And listen, the drama gets old after a while. So

like, is that really what you want? You know, or do you want

more? You know, like, oh, I like this nice and reliable. So

look, it's, it's just one of those things. Yeah.

So we've talked a bit about we're sort of in this post

performance era, right? We're everything's fast, you know,

led by EVs and all this. And it's just a bit time to revisit

cars like the 308 or the Mondale or I mean, are these cars now

good again, because we're not looking at them to, you know,

beat the guy in the, you know, the Porsche next to you at the

stoplight. I mean, well, here's that. So here's a relevant

story. Recently, I participated in a rally put on by a really

good friend of mine. Rally is not a good term. It's really a

tour. Yeah, he brought together some of his really good friends

from the world of athletics and business and born together for

this really great trip that combined cars and great food and

architecture. And it was really mind blowing. That sounds

amazing. He, he handpicked everybody. And I will just tell

you, front to back, everybody was an amazing driver and a couple

of guys I would say were truly exceptional drivers. That makes

it a lot more fun to. Oh, yeah. And a lot of them had real race

experience, you know, and every, I think for the most part,

almost everybody had real track experience. But the cars were

mixed. It was everything from like a new McLaren. I, they're

all the same to me. So I don't know. But I think the first

one was a seven. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, first over the seven. And

there was I'll name a couple of the cars. They're 959 a couple

career GTs. There were a couple guys with Vipers. One was a

gen two Viper very well modified. He's modified. And then the

other was a Viper ACR, which was the fifth gen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

what undervalued that whole Viper line, right? I mean, you

know, tremendous, you know, values to be had there.

Oh, oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And at 40. Great cars front to back.

Well, I drove shout out to my, my best friend, Anand. I drove

1973 Porsche Carrera RS 210 horsepower. I think I may have had

half as much horsepower as next closest car, really, but

realistically a third or more. Sure. And credit credit to my

friend who set up this tour, he picked some of the greatest

driving roads that I've ever been on. And Pete Stout from

triple zero actually led one of the days. Yeah. Yep. He's like,

this is where we test all the cars. And and I will just tell

you that my little 210 bone stock car breaks, breaks were

slightly modified, but other than the brakes, bone stock car.

I was near the front of the group. First four cars, most of

the time. I got waved by a couple much faster cars at a couple

places. We were driving very spirited. And at one point, the

guys and the vipers were behind me and their cars are fast and

they're, they're exceptional drivers. They're really good

drivers. And I got on the radio, like you guys want to pass me

and they're like, we're having so much fun watching this little

50 year old car dance around all the turns and put the pressure

on these much faster cars. And they're like, this is like the

most amazing thing to see. And and it's just, it's just a good

example of the cars, you know, you said all the horsepower

wars and cars getting so fast. The cars may have gotten faster,

but the roads are still the same. The traffic is still the same.

And I will tell you this. I know I was driving much, much harder

than anybody else was because, you know, I have again, a third

the worst power I have to, but I will also tell you, I was

probably having five times as much fun as anybody else, you

know, right? And it was, it was really amazing. And it just puts

in perspectives, like for all of the in fact, Pete said this at

the end of the day, Pete said, you know, he goes watching you in

that square RS, it just shows you that for all the stat sheets,

and all the numbers that all you need is a good old fashioned

driver's car, and you don't lose a step to anybody. And I think

that is important. So you asked about 308s and things like

that. Look, I'm a big fan of those cars. I have had, I think

every version of a 308 and 320 GTB that there is with the

exception of the two liter turbo cars. And I have, I don't have

one now. And I love those cars. I had, I had a 308 GTB for seven

years. And I only sold it because I had to sell it to be able

to afford my F40. When I had a chance to buy my F40, I

literally sold everything that wasn't tied down to be able to

pull out one off.

Because I didn't know if I'd ever have enough money. And so I

had this only reason I sold it, but I had so much fun in that

car. And I remember going on a drive, a very twisty mountain

drive on your favorite road, Ryan. Yeah. When 430s were new.

Yeah. And there are only two guys at the front, we left the

whole group behind. It was the famous Dan Hurd and his brand

new 430 and me in my 328 GTB. And again, it's like, if you know

how to drive these older cars, there's no limit to the fun that

you can have. And, you know, being being respectful of your

surroundings and bicyclists and all that other stuff. But but

again, the roads are the same. I look, the horsepower is cool.

And there is nothing as cool as like, you know, getting on the

track and like a 296 and seeing like, this is like

spaceship fast, right? But but for daily driving, like, I don't

know, I, I like redlining it in second gear and still being

under the speed limit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a pretty good,

it's like I'm, I'm actualizing, I mean, and that's the first

Ferrari that I got to drive was a 308 with a gated manual. Thank

you to our friend of the show, Mark Foster, who runs the Lion

Air Museum here in Orange County, very generously tossed me his

keys after I was telling him how much I loved Magnum PI as a

babe in arms. It was like you said, Ryan, it was like fun

distilled. I like my daughter and I were just smiling ear to

ear. And I was like, this is fantastic. It was just like pure

fun. And I think the good part about it and you just touched on

this is it's so usable in everyday life in the sense of

like, you could take it out like on a quick weekend drive, it's

not something that you have to have access to attract a truly

enjoy because most of us don't have that in our daily lives

regularly. So if you can use it every weekend or every week,

even better.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And that and that was a truly

engaging car. I mean, I think the 308 is a true, I mean, in

true, I always modify everything I have to make it a slightly

better driver's car. But a couple of small things, bigger

sway bars, and a little bit stiffer suspension, which not

too hard to get. And then that car really comes alive and you

take a little bit of weight out. That car really becomes alive.

And guess what? You're having the time of your life and you're

not going three times the speed limit. You know, you get pulled

over. Okay, you might get a ticket and a slap on the wrist,

but you're not going getting hauled off to jail. Good luck with

that. And, you know, an F8 or a 296 or you know what I mean?

Yeah, it's

Yes, yes. Yeah, we got to talk about the F40. Because Ryan, I

think we're about the same age. The F40 was the car right

growing up. I think you and I in the last show that you were on.

I think you you you anointed it the best Ferrari ever made. Am

I wrong? I think I said it's the best car ever made. Best car

even better. I feel like if if God made a car and said, Hey,

are you are you real drivers out there? Yeah, this is this is the

car. I made it for you. This is for you. And I will tell you, I

mean, there's so much. There's so much F40 stuff. I'm shocked.

Neil, Neil, you made this beautiful. Yeah. Yeah.

Neil at this common if he watches this. I have I mean, I

have all of the parts manuals and service manuals, all the

stuff there. I have millions of F40 books like probably every

book ever written. F40 is a crazy car. And I'll just I mean, I

was 12 years old when it came out. And my favorite car before

that was the Countach. Actually. And the F40 was amazing

because Ferrari was like, we'll put air conditioning in this

thing. But nothing else that doesn't involve making it

faster. It doesn't even have a dome light doesn't have anything

like that. And it is they're tried and true tube chassis

construction with like a carbon box put around it for for the

tub to reinforce it. They weren't super good at carbon fiber

at the time. So it's really a fiberglass body with a carbon

kevlar layer at the bottom. So it has strength from the carbon

kevlar bottom but stiffness from fiberglass. I didn't know

why you're not released. Yeah, everything's carbon. But if you

look at the bottom, you see the carbon kevlar. Okay, if you

that you're not truly supposed to see the weave in an F40. If you

see the weave, it's because that polyester resin in the

fiberglass is failing and the paint's sinking down a little

bit, which happens over time, like, like no big thing. But an

F50 you are supposed to see the weave as a carbon fiber

construction. And it's a whole different thing. And so just to

fell a little bit of the urban legend there. For your viewers,

there's no traction control. So Ferrari was like, what are the

biggest tires we can put three 335s in the back. That is

traction control. It has two IHI turbochargers that are so I

think so perfectly tuned that when you shift the red line on

one gear and you come into the next, you come in just off of

the boost and then the boost immediately starts building.

Because if you came off of one gear and you went in the next

and your RPM was higher, and the boost came right back, you

would overwhelm those 335 tires. Right, right. Um, and they

stopped making that car in 1992, but they campaigned it all the

way to 1998. And so they kept developing parts for that car

all the way through. And if you know what you're doing, and

you know who to talk to, and you know what you're looking at,

you can get some really great, period correct parts for that

car that they developed three or four years after they stopped

producing that car. And look, I mean, you got this is not, I

mean, you've got amazing guys like Franco Miners in Italy and

these other guys who really, you know, Julian Smith at Simpson

and, you know, all these like super smart people who like

really know how to campaign these things, you know, and knew

what went into it, you know, Cristiano Michelotto, like these

guys made amazing things for these cars. But the point is, if

you're a driver, and you have enough money, like that is the

car for you. And I will and I will say this, for a long time,

okay, so when I bought my F40, people poo pooed it, they're like,

oh my gosh, I can't believe you sent all of your money on an

F40, F430 as fast as this. I'm like, I'm like, you know, I

really don't care. I bought the car. I always wanted my dream

car. How amazing is that? Yeah. And and then people would say,

oh, they made too many of them. I'm like, too many of them for

what? Not too many of them for me to be able to get parts.

Right. Like, that's amazing, right? Right. Like this 1300

11 made 212 US cars. I have a US car. Okay. There's some key

differences between the two that I for one truly appreciate.

Right. And parts are not hard to get. And the cool thing about

Ferrari is because they made so few cars at the time, they

didn't make a lot of their own stuff. So if you want certain

things like rubber gaskets for your fuel pump, well, they

happen to be the same as Alfa Romeo 164. You don't hear that

from me. You know,

also a cool car, not enough for a car. And you know, so instead

of paying hundreds of dollars to Ferrari, you can spend 16

dollars for me. And you get the same part. Right. It doesn't

look to that literally the same part. Right. Right. Right. So

Ryan, let me put me in your pilates, right? You you you pick

up this car or you had it delivered or whatever this car

that, you know, you grew up your teenage years lusting after I

mean, this is this is the car. This And now you've

got one. You get in that car for the first time and take it out

for a drive. What I mean, what is that feeling? I don't know

that I've ever had a feeling if you're sort of my wedding day

or the birth of my daughter or something, right? I mean, that's

got to be like up there.

Yes. I mean, it's it's everything that you would

imagine. But also, I will tell you as I'm a lot of an

introvert. And I will tell you, the car deserves a lot of

attention. But I do not like the attention. And just because I

have the car doesn't make me special. I'm not really better

than anybody else because I have this car. And and that part is

really hard for me. So the one thing that I learned, Ryan, is

that is a car to drive at five a.m.

Otherwise, you're going to be expected to interact with

everybody because it's so

You get the looks in the stairs and I don't like that. That's

actually one of the things that I why I gravitated to Ducati's

so much, you know, with motorbikes, because two things

one is you can have the most amazing and rare and special

Ducati and the guy in the toilet or cell next to you has no idea

what it is. Also, you have a helmet with a visor. And you

don't have to interact with anybody. People don't see you

and they don't know who you are. And I will just tell you like

the f 40, the biggest, the biggest thing I learned from the

f 40 is that they brought that experience. Straight over. I'll

also tell you this story. I was invited to a track day by

somebody who who we both know and love. Yeah, a PPR. Yeah. And

he said, I'd love it if you bring your 40 and give some of

my, my people's rides around track, make no problem. I took

it. I ripped out some really good laps I had. I did the first

couple laps with a track instructor. And he was kind of

speechless that not that I was like actually driving it, I

think, you know, yeah. And, and so, like, that was really cool.

But the one thing I realized real fast is, well, everybody

wants to race you. I'm like, I'm here in my old, my, I mean,

it was still an old Ferrari at the time. I mean, that time it

was yeah, it was 20, 20 something years old. And and I just

want to go and have a good time and share this passion with

other people. But yet everybody in their brand new Porsche 911

turbos, once stick their nose underneath me, going into the

corner. And I'm like, I didn't come for that, you know. So

again, like, more unwanted attention. Yeah. Now look, I

don't want to make it sound like, Oh, my gosh, what a horrible

experience to own this amazing car. It's amazing. But, but, but

to your point about like here, you have this great experience

you like, it puts things like really front and center in your

face that you are like, they're like, wow, I didn't know I was

signing up for all this. And by the way, like, good, good, good

lessons for me. Yeah, because honestly, you know, I learned a

lot of like interesting things, like, first of all, like, well,

what other people may think of me is none of my business. Like,

I'm just carrying on doing my own thing. Kind of like live your

life your way. And also, there's a lot of noise out there. And

you separate the noise from the signal, you know, when you have

somebody's over the top cars, people will attribute certain

qualities to you that really, like, you think you're so great

at this or so great at that. And I'm like, and, and maybe I am,

but, but maybe I'm not. And the car's nothing to do with it, but

the people will will make that. And so you have to start becoming

very comfortable with who you are very, very quickly. Yeah,

yeah. Yeah, that's weird. And you could spend your entire life

trying to correct people's assumptions or go like, Yeah,

yeah, but I'm not that guy or I'm not, you know, whatever. Like

it, I think it highlights, like you said, it highlights what

other people that would the definitions they have in their

heads. And I think I've had that for myself too, where you're

like, Oh, wow, I fill in the story this way. And maybe that's

not true.

On the other, it's just one of those things, you know, and, and

I will tell you, I've never buying that car was the best

decision I ever made my entire life. And it's just, you know,

it wasn't all like happiness and roses. I mean, I remember I

started a company shortly thereafter. And I mean, we were

not cash for positive for a long time. And I had to sell a

couple of cars to pay tuition for my kids schools. I regret

selling the cars. I do not regret that decision at all. Like

my kids come first. Luckily, selling the F40 was never part of

my consideration. And, you know, it's just it's just one of

those things like you're still a normal person, you live a real

life, you just maybe make some irrational choices to fuel your

passion, which by the way, what's the point of life if not to

have irrational exuberance for the things that we really care

about, right?

That's really living. And I think something else unique about a

handful of cars, that being one of them that you truly have the

power to like change lives with that thing, like just seeing

that car for a young person can I truly think change the

trajectory of their life. I remember seeing my first

coontosh as a kid. Have my dad chase it down in our Chrysler

minivan to see where it went, you know, or whatever the in my

first roof, my first career GT. I mean, this is that car. It has

a it has a gravity.

Oh, yeah, I look, I think it's really important for kids who are

passionate about the stuff to see these things to a get an

appreciation for it, but be know this stuff is possible. Yeah,

like, if you want to have one of these, like you, it is all

there for you to figure out how to get it, you know, and, and I

feel like if people don't see this stuff, or don't see people

using them, like that that doesn't ever take a hold, you

know, and not to make this like all serious or whatever, but I

really, I really feel like, you know, the sharing and the

giving back and all stuff is like a is a pretty important

thing. And I have a lot of friends who take that part very

seriously, you know, I mean, we're all really privileged to to

own these cars. No matter how hard we worked or whatever

hardships we've had to go through to to attain them. We're all

highly privileged.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think all of us were lucky to have that

experience as a kid, you know, probably more than once where

someone was generous and said like, Hey, do you want to sit in

this incredibly special car, or you got to see something on the

road. And it sort of opens up like you said, Ryan, where you're

like, wait a minute, like, these things exist in the world,

people are using them. Maybe that's something for me. I mean,

there's a like, my parents are heavily involved in the Cobra

owners club. And there's a car show that they do every year. And

there was this little boy that happened to be at the show right

when a lot of the cars were leaving this year. And it was the

cutest thing I mean, his eyes were as big as saucers. And, you

know, my family takes that approach to like my parents and

my husband and I, and it's like, do you want to come sit in the

car? And he was too shy to sit in any of the cars, but he got to

stand there and watch them drive away. And it was like, you

could see his brain exploding, like in the best way possible. And

it's like, it's just, I think it adds to the experience of

having these cars, being able to share them with anybody really,

but especially, like the next generation and young kids where

they're just like, wait a minute, and a lot of them have grown up

on the cars movies. And so there's some equivalent. They're

like, this is lightning in real life.

Right, you're a superhero. Yeah, right. Yeah, I mean, you're

getting to meet your heroes and it's a positive.

Yeah. Well, and I'm sure that kid will never forget that. But

then, you know, and at the same time, I think about the

um, the Angeles Highway AI video. Yeah, yeah, where it's like

the old guys like, yeah, let me show you my old car kids. This

is really cool. Yeah, definitely. We were like, Oh, were we that

guy for a minute? Like, I try not to be that guy. But I'm sure

that I'm a little bit of all of those guys in those videos at

one point or another. You know, I'm not to be, you know, there's

a reason because they're so honest. Because we all connect

Yeah. Well, so Brian, I want to quickly ask you, and I say this,

not knowing what color your f 40 is. So I may be really

stepping in it here. But in 2022, there was an f 40 that was

auctioned off by RM Sotheby's. And it got a lot of attention

because it had been redone in a very unique controversial way

the Grigio Nardo Nardo, Nardo Gray. We started to twitch.

Right. I know he's like, Yeah, so are you looking in my garage

right now? You know, for those who haven't seen it, I would

describe it as kind of a primer gray, but it was very, you

know, there were like Ferrari head thoughts. Yeah. I'm curious

what your thoughts were. Yeah. Well, it was a Nardo Gray car.

Yeah. And which is actually an Audi color. Yeah. And it was

converted to an LM. And you know, here's my feeling with

that. There is no one right way to enjoy any of this stuff.

Like, who am I to say the way I enjoy my cars is the way we

should like, I mean, friends who are passionate about having

cars with no miles on them. And they, and they get so much

enjoyment of rubbing in the diaper. And for them to leave

their garage is like terrifying to them. And you know, there's

some people who can't leave cars alone, they have to modify

them endlessly. And that's the fun for them. And you know, so,

you know, that car is to somebody's taste. Now, I will

tell you this. I believe they had a hard time selling that car.

So maybe it's not to as many people's taste as they may have

thought. But again, it only needs one person. Right. But again,

going back to my earlier point, there's price equilibrium,

there's supply and demand. And then the price equilibrium is

where those two lines meet. And you know, it is what it is,

like, I'm not a big I mean, again, who I mean, who am I to

to judge? I have my own way. And I live my life my way, my

cars look a certain way. And other people can do what they

want with their cars, you know, and you know, if their cars are

ugly, well, they have to bear the consequences not me.

Yeah. Well, on that note, if you were the CEO of Ferrari, right?

If say, Oh, Bendetto were to have an unfortunate accident or

something, and they gave you a call Ryan Sopka, what are you

going to do differently day one? Like what weird? How do you

want to steer this Ferrari ship moving into the future? manuals

coming back? What are you doing?

Okay, well, you didn't. I didn't know you're gonna ask this

question. Let me let think for a second. I'll tell

you what I would do. Yeah, I would actually. Okay, so it's a

publicly traded company. So you so you have to have a roadmap

of ever expanding demand, right? Because you have to beat the

previous quarter quarter after quarter or else, your stock

takes a big dump. However, I would not leave the passionate

Ferrari Stas behind. I would without a doubt. Look, we have

all this technology. I would not use the technology to be making

1000 horsepower cars. I would be using the technology to make

2000 pound cars that would pass all of the safety standards.

They would I would probably make a line that is 500 horsepower

500 600 horsepower. Truly analog cars. I mean, I would go back

to minimal power steering, manual transmission, a little bit

attraction control, ABS, and a line of lightweight cars like

that, I would make a line of luxurious grand touring cars that

that kind of like meet all the needs. I would also make a line

of, you know, latest and greatest horsepower work cars, but

not tons of them. And also, I don't want to make 13,000 cars

a year. I would go back to making 9,000 cars a year. You

sell every single one, the prices can get a little bit higher.

And you can actually bring all these other things to generate

money, both top line and bottom line, without having to

increase the number of cars. I mean, Ferrari is an amazing

brand. Use the brand to your advantage. You know, it doesn't

have to just be about pumping out cars like Honda. Right. And

again, like this is so far above my pay grade, and I have no

business discussing this, but but here we are, you know, I

would just like that. But there would be

definitely a line of real sports cars, again, where the

technology would be used for lightweight. And they'd be for

real drivers, as well as some of the other things. And I would

also sort of tap into history. And and make instead of having it

be like there's a V eight line, well, I guess now it's a V six

line. Instead of there being like a V six line and a V 12 line,

this had but I'd be like, there's a real drivers line. There is a

grand touring line. There is a technology line that has all of

the latest technology. And there is a and line, a

high luxury line where this is the car we both want the most

luxurious experience possible with the Ferrari badge on it. And

I would actually cater to each of those user groups. And I would

use the brand. I would use the brand in different ways to add

necessarily income to keep the public market happy. And then I

would also use those cars to and by the way, there would be

halo cars in there too. But I would use cars to propel the

brand and keep the brand relevant. Again, for multiple

generations going forward. Yeah, yeah. And again, I have no

business answering that question. But that's all I

think it was a pretty great answer. Well, answered. I'm

on board. What about you, Lindsey? I was gonna say you heard

it here. All right, well, I have to brush up on my Italian.

That's right. Well, I know we're at like an hour. I do have one

final question to end on for you. What's the best time you've

ever had behind the wheel of a Ferrari? Like if you could go

back and do it again, when was it just dialed in for you?

Okay. In 2016, maybe. I used to put on a really amazing event

called the Aspen Snowmass Motor and Classic. And it was not

always Ferraris. It had brought different clubs together. And

we would do a combination of road rallies, awesome meals. We

would do a fun party to support Morgan Adams Club. And a track

day, I would organize time with the track for us. One of the

days, I would do a drive down from Aspen to Peonia for lunch

and back on on good old Highway 133. Well, just so happened

that that was the same day the grand was wrapped up and they

were coming back. And oh my gosh, our good friend Tom is going

to get so mad at me for this story. Tom, I'm sorry, but I

want to tell a story.

Apologize in advance.

T.G. Mittler was in and I'm going to get it wrong. But I think

he was in a 200 SI Maserati. And I was in my Ferrari 348

challenge. And he and I had the best time duking it out on

Highway 133 from Peonia up to Carbondale on Clure Pass and

all the twisties and all that stuff. And it was truly epic for

me. And I just remember, and of course, like sometimes you have

traffic and you have to be real careful and never cross on a

double yellow ever, ever, ever is a hard and fast rule that I

have. Never cross on a double yellow. I mean, I was very

respectful. So had to wait and then like make up the gaps while

I could. And I just remember I will never forget it. I just

remember thinking like this is the best time I've ever had in a

Ferrari. And of course, if you give me more time, I might think

of some other things, but that is the one that's good my mind

that stands out. And I've had lots of great times, but that was

definitely one of them. And it was and it was awesome.

Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic. That is, yeah, that's the right

recipe right there. Even die Tom's side story. Yeah, when I was

gonna say good friends and like partners in crime with our

friend Trent Abbott, who was on with us. Yes. Well, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, he's an active member of the PT Cruiser Spotters

anonymous group that I'm a part of. So we love to hear stories

outside of that. Well, I would say TG is a world class guy,

like, like, like every time I see him, he is just whether it's

him on the grand or an auction or whatever. And, and you know,

like that group him Trent Abe, like everybody is

just, they're amazing people. Yeah, part of the great one of the

great side benefits of being in this hobby.

Exactly. I was gonna say, like, you meet, you meet the best

people and then you just have these totally random friendships

and amazing experiences. And it's just so much fun.

Yeah. Yeah, we got to pinch ourselves sometimes, don't we?

Yeah, pretty great. Well, Ryan Sapka, appreciate you coming on

again. You know, we could go on all night, but we need to have

you back again in a few months. As the Ferrari landscape shifts,

is it no doubt? Once again, I'm sure it will change more.

But always enjoy talking to you, buddy. So thanks for coming on.

Yeah, well, thank you.

Till next time, Lindsay.

Thank you to everybody for joining us this week. And thank

you, of course, to Ryan. It was great to meet you officially.

And we appreciate our audience being here listening, liking,

subscribing and sharing with their enthusiast friends. Until

next time, remember always be driving, wear that car show and

we'll see you next week.