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Car
BMW X5
The BMW X5 is a midsize luxury SUV made by BMW. It is designed to carry families and cargo comfortably while offering a smooth, high-quality ride and a premium interior.
Car
BMW M3
The BMW M3 is a high-performance, sporty version of a standard BMW sedan. It is built to go much faster and handle corners better than a regular passenger car while still having back seats and a trunk.
Car
BMW E90
The BMW 3 Series is a small luxury sedan made by BMW. It is designed to be comfortable, easy to drive, and slightly sporty for everyday commuting.
Car
Lotus Emira
The Lotus Emira is a premium two-door sports car with its engine in the middle. It is designed to look like an exotic supercar while offering a very direct and connected feel to the road.
Car
Lotus Elise
The Lotus Elise is a very small, lightweight two-seat sports car with a removable roof. It does not have many luxury features, focusing instead on being extremely fun and agile to drive.
Car
Porsche Taycan
The Porsche Taycan is a high-end, fully electric four-door sedan made by Porsche. It is designed to go very fast while running entirely on battery power.
Car
Hyundai Ioniq
The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is a fully electric family hatchback with a modern, blocky design. It runs entirely on battery power and can charge very quickly.
Car
Tesla Model 3
The Tesla Model 3 is a fully electric four-door sedan. It is powered by a battery instead of gasoline and is controlled mostly through a large screen in the middle of the dashboard.
Car
Tesla Model
The Tesla Model Y is a fully electric midsize SUV. It runs entirely on battery power, has a very simple interior with a large touchscreen, and offers plenty of cargo space.
Car
Chevrolet Corvette
The Chevrolet Corvette is a famous American two-seat sports car. It is designed for high speed and sharp handling, featuring a powerful engine located behind the seats in modern versions.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a premium two-door sports car with its engine located in the very back of the vehicle. It is famous for its distinctive shape and its ability to be driven comfortably every day.
Car
Ford Mustang
The Ford Mustang is a well-known American two-door sports car. It is famous for its sporty look and the loud sound of its optional V8 engine.
Car
Porsche Cayman
The Porsche Cayman is a two-door sports car with its engine placed in the middle of the vehicle, right behind the seats. This design helps it turn corners very smoothly and feel highly balanced.
Car
BMW M2
The BMW M2 is a small, powerful two-door sports car. It is designed for drivers who want a fast, agile vehicle that is smaller and easier to park than larger sports sedans.
Car
Bmw M
The BMW M Coupe is a vintage, high-performance two-door hatchback with a very distinct, long-nosed shape. It is highly prized by car enthusiasts because of its unusual look and fun, old-school driving style.
Car
Mazda Miatas
The Mazda MX-5 Miata is a small, lightweight two-door convertible. It is designed to be affordable, easy to drive, and fun on twisty roads.
LIVE
Hey everybody, welcome back to Full Throttle Talk, Shenu.
Good to see you.
Hey Blair, how are you man?
I'm good, excited as always for the agenda this week.
A lot's been happening in our respective car lives.
So I think we should get into it
unless you've heard from our buddy Tim Harris,
the founder of Full Throttle Talk.
Indeed I have, so I have a dispatch from Tim Harris.
Is this a dispatch from Puerto Rico
or from North Carolina or a little of both?
No, well, let me just start it off from the top here.
Career update from Puerto Rico.
Ferrari headquarters has contacted me
regarding a leadership opportunity.
Apparently there is an opening in the C-suite.
The position is Chief Luce Officer.
The responsibilities remain somewhat unclear.
My agent Claude says I'm uniquely qualified.
I'm considering the interview.
Best wishes, Tim Harris.
Welcome to Full Throttle Talk,
the podcast where horsepower meets conversation
from supercars to classic legends,
high revving tech to motorsport mayhem.
We covered all straight from the driver's seat,
whether you're a gear head eraser
or just love the thrill of the open road,
you're in the right place.
Buckle up, hit the gas,
and let's go Full Throttle into today's episode.
Well, we've gotten into a habit of bringing a guest on.
Derek's been on a couple of times.
So Tim, you're gonna have to be a guest,
especially if you're the Chief Luce Officer.
Did you see they just let their marketing,
the head of marketing go?
No.
Yes, yes.
And they're kind of like speculating
that it's the Luce fumble,
you know, that dismissed that poor guy.
So anyway, just...
Something tells me that guy had an impossible task
to market the Luce to the world
in an effective manner
that wasn't gonna piss everybody off.
So...
Agreed, agreed.
Anyways, let's dive right in, Shanu,
because you've got a bunch of really cool stuff
to talk about, you've had a great trip.
I feel like I should get some of my less interesting stuff
out of the way, which was interesting to me.
The hunt, we talked about it last week.
I'm on the hunt for a new daily driver.
Yeah, you've been looking for one, right?
I have, yeah, and I'm really kind of narrowing down
the BMW choices per our discussion last week.
And so I just wanted to highlight a couple of things.
I'm still wrestling with old versus new, 100%.
I kind of feel like buying a newer BMW X5
is what I should do.
But I drove a couple of really interesting cars to me.
I've got one of them up here behind me.
I found a local guy who has an F80,
I think it's an F80, 335 X-Drive,
which is, I think, the last manual transmission
non-M3 you could get.
And it was in a store of blue, just like this one.
So a really cool car you would think like...
Great color, and that's four-wheel drive, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, exactly.
In a manual, it feels like car, you know,
70, 80,000 miles, whatever it was,
feels like the car that I should really be into.
And I drove it, more or less, back-to-back,
with an E90 M3, the four-door.
The interesting thing about the E90
was that it was in dual clutch, DCT.
This was BMW, if I'm recalling correctly,
their first stab at a dual clutch transmission.
Well, I will say, it was so revelatory for me.
I don't know what it is, but something was lost in BMW,
as you and I have talked about before,
when they went away from natural aspiration
and to turbocharged motors.
So, like, I loved the M3 and DCT,
and I've almost bought an E90 and E92 M3 multiple times,
but it was always with, like,
weak and toy in mind.
Yeah.
And manual.
But this one is more of a,
hey, could I use this car regularly?
They're a little spooky, maintenance-reliability-wise,
but a lot of these are getting big miles put on them,
so guys are driving them.
Needless to say, put me squarely in the E90 M3 camp,
and I know it's not M3 to M3, I get that.
But gosh, naturally aspirated BMWs with that hydraulic,
kind of heaviest steering,
the dual clutch felt like an actual dual clutch.
Yeah.
And I couldn't believe how just meh,
I was about the 335 in a manual,
which you thought you would think would be perfect for me.
The F-Series BMWs just, time and time again,
kind of fall short in my book.
Well, Blair, it sounds like to me,
you're falling into becoming an automatic transmission lover.
From manual, preferred to,
well, that may be okay if it has an automatic transmission.
And listen, I don't blame you, that M3,
that four-door E90, that V8,
it's one of my favorites of the M cars.
And so I don't think, as a daily driver,
I think there's certainly some good utility and fun
that you can still have with a car,
something that certainly is cooler and more unique
than just the plain Jane 3-Series.
Yeah, we'll see.
I think those things get like 15 miles a gallon.
I'm not excited about racking up miles on that,
nor am I about a, you know, 15-year-old BMW
that has rod bearing problems and Vanos and all the stuff.
Yeah.
But I continue to chip away at it.
They were really interesting experiences.
What color was that E90?
It was black.
Okay.
And it had too many miles.
So I'm like, it was cheap.
It was easy to afford and justify from the entry standpoint.
But really cool car, a lot of just feel in those cars.
And most importantly, most comfortable seat I've ever sat in.
I think it was just worn in enough
and they just are not firm.
They're cushy and yet supportive and, man.
So yeah, I'm lost in BMW land.
I kind of feel like X5 should be the choice, more modern.
But we'll see how this ends up.
Good.
Well, I think those are two cool choices.
You couldn't go wrong with either one.
You know, you put a set of blizzaks on either of those cars.
Totally.
You could romp through those Utah winters, right?
No issue.
No, it's all about tires, for sure.
So enough about that.
Shanu, you just had a rad trip.
Please tell us everything.
I got questions for you.
So, you know, driving cars, right?
This is the kind of thing that we certainly love to do.
It's a part of our hobby that's so key for me
and enjoying the cars out in the canyons on a road trip, right?
And so we started doing this Hawking Hills road rally,
we call it in Ohio, Marietta, Ohio.
We started last year with Lotus Detroit.
And so this was our second year.
About 30 guys come down, mostly Lotuses.
But we had, you know, an M3.
We had a 997.
What generation M3?
It was the E36.
Cool.
It was actually the car I bought new, which I then sold to.
Oh, serious?
Yeah, yeah.
And so Docker Yellow 2, Tudor.
Yeah, I bought that car new and I sold it
to one of my fraternity brothers.
And so anyhow, JP is the guy who actually introduced me
to that whole area of Ohio.
But just epic roads, man.
I mean, amazing, amazing roads, very technical,
but very smooth, which is hard to believe
that you can find roads that smooth.
They, the road surface was like a billiard table
compared to the nonsense we deal with here in California.
You know?
And so just amazing, but a lot of people,
I would say about half the crowd had joined us last year.
And the new guys that showed up again,
they're just blown away with how amazing those roads are.
And just made for drivers, right?
Just made for people who really love to drive.
Obviously, the lotuses are really, really set up well for that.
We had the leases.
We had exeges.
We had a couple of VORAs and a bunch of Emiras.
OK, Amira V6s and Amira turbos.
And I got a lot of seat time in the V6 and the turbo.
So you teed this up last week that you were going to be able to
compare them back to back.
Yeah, so last year I got to drive both cars too.
And so it was interesting.
It kind of confirms some of the things that I felt from last year.
And that is that they're both exceptionally fast.
They're both really, really fun.
You know, the turbo is the AMG powered car that is paddle shift, right?
It's there's no manual option on that one.
But the car is exceptionally fast.
But here was my issue with that particular.
These are two stock cars, the steering.
And I wind about this last year.
So I did a bit of research to see what the differences are.
They're both hydraulic steering racks.
But one is the pump.
Well, they're both hydraulic.
I thought the AMG was an electric, but it's not.
Yeah, it's not.
It's they have the same part number.
But the AMG has got a pump that has that's an electric powered pump.
OK, OK.
So versus the pump that's on the V6 has run off the engine.
And so there's something about how those are affecting the steering rack.
And I'm not quite bright enough outside my pay grade to know the real differences.
But I did put an inquiry into one of my best friends who is a steering
you know, engineer and to pick his brain.
So I'll report back on what he has to say.
But there is a difference.
Now, interestingly enough, I feel like with a suspension change
and an alignment change, you can you can enhance or improve
what I think is the steering, you know, on the on the turbo.
And I think, you know, for younger people who are used to video games,
I think I think, Frank, that AMG turbo, you know, steering will be perfectly
acceptable to them, but it didn't have enough.
It didn't give me enough feedback to know what it was doing.
It wasn't loading the way I expected in a corner, you know, entering a corner,
exiting a corner versus the V6 had that.
And I noticed that almost immediately the difference.
You know, I actually. Yeah, very, very interesting.
And so, but, man, we had an epic time.
But guess what?
The fastest car on the in this weekend.
Can you guess which was the fastest car that was there?
An Elise. An Elise.
An Elise. Yeah.
And so now here's the thing, the guy who was driving it,
he would have been the fastest guy driving anything there.
But he's a riding and handling engineer for Bosch.
Is this his car?
It was his car. Yeah. Yeah.
And Dallas is an exceptional driver, you know, the dude is so fast.
Oh, my God, you know, it was yeah, he was moving out.
But the bigger point in my mind is that the Elise, you know, can still run
with the big dogs, OK, nobody could go any faster than he was going.
OK, it was it was just right borderline too fast.
OK, if I'm honest, right?
And so it just goes to show you that when the fundamentals are right,
you know, with a car, it goes fast and that you can realistically go on the street.
And so, yeah, that was a lot of fun.
And I think it opens the eyes to some people as well, you know,
to see how actually capable a car like that is.
And so I feel like you're foreshadowing a segment that we have coming up,
talking about a particular fast Elise, you know.
Yes, that was on a YouTube video that broke last week, right?
Or two weeks ago, you know, we're going to give our take on the everyday driver
review of Todd's mostly stock Elise versus my 111 RS, the Shenoo built.
So anyway, that that is super cool.
So you're more of a V six Amira guy.
If I have a sequel, I am.
I look, it's just everything about that car just felt a little bit better.
The sound is so much better, right?
And and rowing through the gears is good.
But look, I'm not going to kick the turbo out of bed, you know what I'm saying?
It's still a great, fun, fun car.
You know, I'm really splitting hairs here.
So, you know, the turbo car is, you know, it's going to be exceptional.
There's no question about it.
You know, when they release that 420 sport, you know, later the summer in August,
you know, it's going to have the the multi-matic DSSV shocks.
We talked about last week.
So I'm really curious to see what that's going to feel like.
And, you know, maybe they'll change the steering calibration a little bit
so that it waits up a little bit differently.
Knows. Yeah.
But I think we'll we'll get a car into the shop and we'll we'll mess around
a bit with Caster and see if we can add a bit of weight to the feel there.
And if we can bring someone back and and so that'll be a little fun,
little initiative that we'll try.
But well, you better not kick it out of bed.
The force, the four cylinder auto, because apparently I'm a big automatic
transmission enthusiast. So that's your future Blair.
Maybe the 420 is really up my alley.
But no, in all seriousness, I feel like the same happened with my E46 M3,
which there you can knock the steering on that car.
But a good alignment.
I do think changes how the steering feel.
I felt like with negative camber and and and whatever the last guy did
to my alignment, it was in addition to the negative camber
and wherever we landed double check, it absolutely increased response
of the steering. Sure.
And I feel like it changed the waiting for sure.
So like, yes, it is.
It's not new GT3 or 111 RS levels of precision,
but it absolutely increased response and weight.
And so, yeah, it'd be interesting to see what you can do.
Because that is one of my knocks on all modern cars is the steering
has gotten really light, obviously synthetic.
But most people say, well, you can't.
There's no feel in these cars or in the steering.
And yeah, I think that is true.
But what you can absolutely anybody can can discern is how light they've all
gotten. And that kind of bugs me when I get into a sports car
and I feel like I could drive it with one wheel, you know, or steer it
or sorry, steer it with one finger, one finger, right?
Yeah, it's just so light.
And anyway, so yeah, it'll be interesting to see what you did.
I'm glad you had a great trip.
And there's a certain co-host of a podcast that you participate in
that would love to participate in something like that in the future.
So see what you can do to get me in.
Would you? Absolutely. Absolutely.
Well, we've got automotive news to discuss.
And a couple of ones that jumped out at me was that Porsche of,
which to me feels like a little bit of a concession.
And I have I imagine the serious Germans and and those in Stuttgart
were not happy to concede on this, but the new Taycan
is available with e-shift technology, which is really just
picture the Hyundai Ioniq 5N simulated gear shifts
in a very synthetic fashion.
Now, we've talked about the Ioniq 5N.
I've got a buddy that's got one.
He said it's in the shop, little cosmetic work or whatever.
But I'm going to drive that car.
So I want to give an educated opinion about this simulated e-shift technology.
But I'm surprised Porsche is doing it a little bit.
What's your take?
It feels like they've they've had to kind of break from their traditional norm
in order to fake something like this.
Yeah, listen, man, I'm not too into this full kind of actuation
and and coming up with with electronic ways to mimic,
you know, reality, you know, these virtual kind of simulations, if you will.
That's just not my thing, man.
I I I would rather it just, you know, let's put a bitch in paddle shift on it
that works, you know, really, really well.
Do I, you know, I mean, is this the one that has the gear lever?
And you kind of wrote? No, no, I think it's all just paddle shift.
It is all paddle shift. OK. Yeah.
Yeah. And it'll basically through software enhancement only and sound or whatever.
It will mimic, you know, like a dual clutch gearbox in a rev limiter.
I mean, you go all the way up there and it will stall out.
It will literally cut power until you pull the paddle and upshift the car.
I mean, there's part of me that thinks it's super
gimmicky and obnoxious, but there's another part of me that's like
I've owned golf ours and BMWs that they the sound is all fake,
not even just pumped in, it's synthesized.
And I'm very curious about it.
Like I said, I'm going to have an opportunity to drive one of these
these bits of technology in the Hyundai, but they've pretty much simulated, you know,
what what what I think is already kind of been happening in the
the NVH discussion we've talked about, you increase NVH and you increase
all the synthetic sound and feel them, everything else.
Well, maybe there's merit to this idea.
It's going to feel like a really freaking fast golf bar.
Yeah, I don't know, man.
I think we're analog guys and I think no matter what digital
nonsense is put out there, I think we're always going to poke holes in it.
But well, interestingly, you can speak to that because you own a Tesla Model 3
and you want your EV to just be an EV, it sounds like.
And I think that's that's that's my interest in the EVs.
Just as a just as a tool, you know, utilitarian tool.
So yeah, moving to the next one.
Did you see the ZR1X Corvette just set the production car
record up at Pike's Peak for climbing that monstrosity of a of a track?
Yeah, I mean, it didn't beat the record by like 22 seconds
or some significant amount, right?
Which was a Porsche 911 Turbo S, the 992.1 generation.
OK, that previously held that.
Yeah, it's that car continues to parade around going really fast
and destroying many lap time records and whatnot.
So I think it's pretty interesting.
I think it's awesome, man.
And I see some pundits out there, you know, complaining.
Well, yeah, it did it with twice the amount of horsepower.
I'm like, OK, yeah, it did it, right?
All the only thing that matters is the result.
You know, not what they used to get the result.
So yeah, you know, yeah.
Well, that's always been the knock on, you know, everybody but Porsche.
And I think there is there is some truth to how well
Porsches are engineered that they can go that quickly with less. Sure.
But you also get a Z06 and I imagine a ZR1.
The experience is so dramatic versus I've been in 992.1 Turbo S.
And it's like, you know, it feels kind of distant, if you ask me.
So yeah, I don't really care how they're doing it, as long as the experience matches,
which by all accounts, the ZR1 does.
Interestingly, a super Mustang Mach E Corvette, full EV,
I think it was like six electric motors or something.
It won the overall a 1400 horsepower EV
that makes 6900 pound feet of downforce at 100 and fifty
miles per hour in comparisons.
We're talking 7000 pound feet or pounds of downforce.
Right. Compared to the 992 GT3 RS makes
1400 pounds at 100 and fifty miles an hour.
So we're just talking total race car monster.
Sure. Sure.
That one went up fast and that interests me less.
What interests me most about Pike's Peak is all the maniacs who get behind the wheel.
And like literally put their life at risk to fly up that mountain.
That's almost more compelling to me than these these super high horsepower,
fast cars, they're running up.
But what do you have, Shanu, on the news?
Yeah. Well, you know, listen, my news may not be quite as exciting,
but I think it's interesting.
Anyways, the first that caught my attention is that Polestar is leaving the U.S.
in 2027
And there is a lot of speculation that it's about the software that they're using,
the Chinese software Polestar is owned by Geely and Geely is a Chinese company.
And the speculation is that the software that they're collecting,
you know, can be accessed by the Chinese government.
So the the American government, the U.S.
government here has said that it's a security risk.
But there's another angle that I don't know how many people are actually talking
about that is Polestar is not selling too many cars in the U.S.
And so, you know, Volvo, which is also owned by Geely,
they've managed to get their software through the system here.
So why can't Polestar just simply use Volvo's software?
So I think probably the real story is that financially selling cars
in the U.S. is a more difficult proposition.
You know, frankly, I think having Polestar as a separate entity.
I think that was mistake number one.
I think they should have positioned Polestar as the performance
or the AMG or M division of Volvo, right?
And then use the Volvo network and distribution to to make it a viable entity.
And so I think that's where that was mistake number one.
And now they're the cost of running it as a standalone entity is probably doing them in.
So anyways, that was one bit of news.
The other quick thing that I'll mention is Slate,
the EV truck we talked about in the past, they finally released their price.
And sure enough, they've come in just under 25 grand.
You know, the other thing that the analysis, there's only going to be one battery package.
Originally, there's going to be a standard range and then an extended range.
Now there's just one range and it's about like 205 mile range.
So, you know, it'll be interesting to see how how that shakes out.
Weren't you on the focus group for Slate?
Didn't you participate in one of those?
Yes. So I went to a focus group that was actually for aftermarket vendors
who are want to make accessories for it.
Yes, a couple of months ago.
It was very interesting, you know, but yeah, we'll see.
I don't know if they, you know, they probably haven't released yet
when or how many, you know, real deposits they've taken.
But it looks like the first vehicles are going to start being delivered
at the end of this year.
They sent me a notice saying that if I place my, you know, full deposit,
you know, I should expect a car by March of next year.
So anyways, I think it's fascinating.
Fascinating about that is we're talking almost half the average
new car selling price in the country.
That's right. That's right.
And when you look at the average commute for most people,
it's about 40 miles apparently, you know, at 205 mile range,
this car should be able to do it.
And so anyways, yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that whole thing,
you know, shakes out.
But the other more interesting bit of news that that I came across
was this 9-11 GT4 car.
So Porsche have just, you know, shown that.
And I think, you know, the GT4 was was always being filled by the Cayman.
And now that the Cayman ice, you know, is no longer available or being phased out,
Porsche needed to put something into the mix, right?
And so I think it begs the question, you know,
will that make its way into a street version?
And, you know, they've sliced and diced the 9-11 lineup,
you know, more extensively than I think any other brand out there.
So what do you think, Blair?
I mean, could they support a 9-11 GT4 street car?
My opinion is anything Porsche does right now is going to be met
with huge reception, very warm reception and lots of freaking
you know, open checkbooks.
So, you know, at the top of their range, if they did it right,
I kind of feel like those guys can do no wrong right now,
as long as they're not trying to sell EVs in China.
They can do no wrong and and maybe discontinue the 718 platform.
But anything 9-11 related, you make it sexy, which is not hard to do
and tell people they can go really fast if they incorporate some of this.
Now, I don't know where that would slot.
If we're we're talking about GT3 RS and two RS that's I assume coming.
But, you know, be kind of cool if they they release this car and stripped it,
you know, made it really, really lightweight, not give, you know.
But, you know, Porsche has also made a big announcement this past week
that they're really going to they're going to reduce their output
and they're going to focus on the high margin vehicles, right?
So that means special edition.
That means more options and more bespoke stuff that they can get, you know,
fatter margin on.
So that seems to be the direction they're going in.
So I would almost say to you if I had to make a prediction, I'd say, yeah,
they're going to do a 9-11 GT4 car.
And if if they do it right, it should be a stripped out,
you know, very, very hardcore performance version.
I think that would be, you know, a pretty cool, cool development.
You know, the question is, how do you keep it, you know,
below the performance of a GT3 car?
Right. So anyway, as I did see that they are going to go more exclusive
and lesser volume.
Is this further evidence of the Ferrari
if occasion of Porsche?
Yeah, I think like it.
I think so, man. I mean, look, they're they make such good profit
with that long, long options list that's available to everyone.
And they they continue to expand their paint to sample
offering, you know, to the point where, you know, I think there's a separate line
there that that manages all of that for for Porsche.
And they have a huge staff of people.
And so, yeah, I know they see dollar signs, right?
And so I would think there could be a model here
that is spawned from the GT4 car. Who knows?
Well, don't worry if you don't get a paint to sample allocation,
you can choose between six shades of silver, gray or white.
So that's it.
So I hope you like the idea of paint to sample
because I do think they're kind of cattle herding everybody that direction.
They're going to water it down enough of the Porsche cynicism
because we're going to move into the next segment, which is from the auctions.
Some some of the auction results that I've got a few of these
that I want to highlight to you, Shenu, and two of them are Porsche cars.
They're both nine elevens.
Well, surprise, surprise, surprise.
And even more surprising is that these are actually
decent value plays in my eyes.
And and you may not believe this because value play in 911 right now
seems to be completely antithetical to each other.
But here's my evidence, Shenu, and you let me know what you think.
One of them we've talked about this car and it requires
the buyer take a little bit of risk, frankly,
on bring a trailer just the other day, a 991 dot one GT three
with 3000 miles on it.
Just transacted for right around 100 and 50000 bucks.
So we've talked about the 991 dot one GT three.
It was, yeah, 100 and 52 grand.
So you're pushing 160 after you bring the the buyer
fee that they tack on the bring a trailer fee.
But it's 3000 miles.
We've talked about the engine issues these cars have had.
Everybody knows about it.
Everyone knows that they had finger followish issue.
And then Porsche came out and gave ten year extended warranty on these cars.
This particular car did have a failed engine.
Now, what you really want is a G series motor G.
And I think after 2016 is the motor they started to put in any one that failed.
This has went from an E zero to an E one.
So I think an updated version of the E series motor.
But there's a lot of guys in the comments here talking about how many miles
they've put on a similar motor without any issue.
And so when you think about the cost of a new GT three, they're 300
thousand dollars and I would argue they've gotten so refined while I still really like them.
These 991 GT threes have a lot more hardcore visceral emotional
quality to them in my book.
And it's my favorite generation Porsche interior modern Porsche.
Um, so what at 100 and fifty K am I the only one who's compelled
by a 3000 mile car, albeit you take a little bit of a risk.
But I think a lot of that is just voodoo kind of stuff.
You only hear about the bad experiences.
It's compelling me.
Yeah, I mean, and for a reason, I mean, it's it's, you know, at the core,
it's a good car, right?
You're you're you're not going to go any faster in a newer GT three on the street
than this one. And so for half the money, you'd be crazy not to consider it.
Right. I mean, it looks fantastic.
It performs well.
You know, it's half the money of a new one.
It seems silly not to to to have this on your on your considerations list.
So well, I don't think any.
Sorry, I don't think anybody should be buying a GT three.
If they're stretching financially to get into it.
Sure. Any car, right?
Yeah. Well, any car, that's a great point.
But if you're looking at it as, hey, I could buy the 992.2 and go spend
300 grand and fight for allocations and all this bullcrap.
Or I could buy a hundred and 50000 almost new 991.1,
especially if you want PDK anyways, because these were PDK only.
Just right up my alley.
Yeah, no, that was the first one where they did that, right?
And and, you know, I think they got a lot of pushback.
The market said, what the hell?
You know, and so then they came back, you know, next generation had, you know,
manual. And so they were listening to their customers.
And that that was, you know, pretty impressive.
And they also made a point of saying, well, yeah, but it's slower.
So and then the market said, well, we don't care.
You know, totally. We want the the feels, right?
We want the feels.
Well, I got to keep borrowing Derek's, you know, term feels because I love it.
Yeah, a plug for our last couple of episodes, our last episode where we had
oh, two episodes ago, we had Derek Peterson on again.
The Porsche of VIP.
About a month ago, he got us a look behind the curtains last week.
We got into a real technical discussion about feel and.
Engineering. Yeah, exactly.
So the next auction that I found even more fascinating was
a car that I think is super interesting in the Porsche lineup.
And it's a base Carrera from 2012.
So we're also staying right in the 991.1
generation. And this car had high miles, 94,000 miles.
And it it brought $44,000 on bring a trailer.
Now, interestingly, this is also a seven speed manual
black optioned well, looks like a really nice, lovely driver.
So we've talked at length and and I love naturally aspirated cars.
Naturally aspirated Porsche sound fantastic.
This generation is no exception.
In fact, it might be the the, you know, pinnacle of just Porsche sound.
44000 dollars with a fee.
You're mid forties, Shenu, 94000 miles on this thing.
You do recall what a Carrera T cost, right?
We've talked about this.
Yeah, they started at 150
Yeah, I mean, you won't find one with any of the options that everybody
takes for less than about 175
And you see them all over for sale at 190 sticker.
So we're talking a fourth, a fifth, in some cases, of a new Carrera T.
And you can have this base Carrera, which makes similar horsepower.
I'll be way less torques naturally aspirated.
But these are like 300 and fifty horse.
They sound great.
You've got that old school feel, well, relative to the new cars.
But I think this would be like phenomenal buy for somebody.
It feels like one of the few of only value plays left in the Porsche world,
especially nine elevens.
Yeah, I think, you know, again, I think there's examples like this car
that are affordable ways to enter into the 911 ownership, right?
And so this car has got a few mods done to it, too.
It looks like, you know, it's got the numeric shifter, which would put on our
996 RR, it's got a fab speed, you know, exhaust, which we actually have
on our 996 as well, you know, a few other things that that they've done.
And so, you know, those wheels, some big ass wheels on there, you know,
when I was initially looking at it, I was like, gosh, I don't think those are stock.
But yeah, sure enough, it's it's an aftermarket wheel.
You know, the interior is a little bit on the boring side.
Let's just be honest. Absolutely.
Yeah.
And so it's not the most exciting, you know, interior.
But yeah, for the money, though, I mean, how can you argue with this?
You know, this here's a 911 you know, it's a manual and you're buying
for 45 grand. This is this is hard to argue with.
And so, yeah, when we talk about this last week, a little bit should do
is you run a service shop. Right.
It's yeah, it's always that debate that I've gotten my mind between
should I go give the manufacturers what they're asking for,
which is I think right now astronomical, both in Porsche and BMW
and every Mercedes everywhere.
Or do you go for 45 grand, do something like this?
It's already largely been depreciated.
And yes, you will need a mechanic.
Yes, you're going to run into stuff.
I think if you're remotely able to wrench yourself, you'd be.
Or if you have a really good mechanic, you know, that you trust
and they're reasonable from a cost and a time to execute standpoint.
I don't know how guys pass stuff like this by and continue to just throw
200000 dollars at Porsche for what I would argue,
a lesser driving experience.
Yeah, I think, listen, you know, you if you're going to buy a sports car,
get a pre-purchase inspection done, right?
You've got to do that.
OK, it's a sports car.
Have someone who knows that type of vehicle, inspect the car
and give you a heads up and then set aside anywhere from 15 to 20 percent
of the purchase price, have that cash set aside for maintenance.
And that maintenance might be like I tell people when you buy a used car,
just plan to do all the fluids and get an alignment just right out of the chute.
You know, unless you're buying the car from somebody you a hundred percent
know has done all that work, you want to be the one to know.
And that way you've baseline the car, you know, you know, what's been done to it.
You know, anything can happen, you know, after you take ownership of the car.
So if you've got that 15, 20 percent set aside.
So like say in the case of that 9-11, you know, that would be, you know,
somewhere between what, like, you know, eight and 10 grand, right?
Roughly that you would have to have, you should have set aside to just be ready
for any sort of, you know, things that could go wrong with the car.
And and that's the way to me, you know, a person should consider buying a used car.
You know, have some money in reserve for the repairs.
And that those may be repairs that are required immediately.
You know, I think I had mentioned before a client of ours who bought
an Aurora GT and it came off the delivery truck he had bought it from someone out
east and the clutch didn't work, you know, and that's a 40 hour job on an Aurora,
you know, and so before he could even enjoy the car, he was stroking, you know,
like a 15000 dollar check to repair the clutch.
So you just got to be ready for that kind of thing.
But there's good deals out there, you know, recognizing sports cars tend
to be driven hard, you know, and if they've had multiple owners, then then,
you know, there'll be lots of questions about the history.
So be aware, of course, but there are good deals we had.
The the last one is a is a different kind of financial lesson.
And this is just going to bring a trailer as well.
It's a 2024 BMW M2.
So if you thought Porsche was the only one that gets out of control with their
options, you knew you're wrong.
Apparently, you can have a bunch of dealer installed in performance bits added to these
M cars. This car was manual at 63000 dollar sticker.
Well, base price.
They added about 45000 dollars worth of stuff, mostly
in performance bits.
A lot of these many sports suspension.
It's sport exhaust for 10000 dollars with the rear diffuser.
Sounds crazy to me.
Well, that that the muffler tips on that.
What were they trying to copy Lexus here?
I mean, that's a bit over the top for my days.
Yeah, well, and this is these are like the factory
and performance bits that you can have put on your car.
So it ran this thing up to 100 and 6000 dollars.
OK, so a bunch.
Well, this car with only 6000 miles, we're not talking very many.
Right.
Well, for 66 grand.
So you I just went camping with my boys and told them what a pyro.
What it means to be a pyro, you know, you're obsessed with fire.
Talk about lighting stuff on fire.
And in this case, it's 40000 dollars
because you added all of this unnecessary crap to your car.
So what what what it's it's a lesson.
We actually got a listener question that ties into mistakes you and I have made.
Yes, with our car dealings in the past.
Well, I think this guy, if we asked him, he'd probably say,
yeah, in hindsight, I shouldn't have added forty grand worth of BMW.
Mostly fluff to this car.
So it's that one jumped out at me like, holy crap, otherwise, BMW M twos.
I think have held their value relatively well,
especially in manual compared to what most BMWs we expect.
And this guy didn't have the same experience.
So the lesson here is what if you're expecting a new car,
maybe watch that option sheet.
There's a reason they try to get you to load these things up
because that's where they make the money and you lose the money.
Yeah, listen, if you're going to keep the car for the long haul,
it is your dream car and you're, you know, specking it out exactly the way you want.
You know, yeah, just be prepared.
If you need to sell the car, you know, quickly or within a few years,
be prepared to lose a lot of money.
You know, if you've kept the car for ten years,
you can kind of justify the loss through the amortization
of all the fun that you've had with the car, right?
And totally.
And so it's kind of interesting to me because, you know, again,
like we had talked on that previous segment about how the market is, you know,
and the car enthusiast profile can be very, very different.
There are some people that they just want the aesthetics and how the car looks.
And then there's certain certainly people that love driving their cars hard
and having fun with them.
And so, you know, when you spend money on aftermarket accessories
that just make your car look better.
Well, you know, be prepared to lose a lot of money without getting much.
I mean, unless you place a lot of importance on the satisfaction
you get from looking at your car, right?
But this is actually is this a good segue into
into the everyday driver review of your 111 RS?
Well, this is the most interesting topic for me.
Of the day, Shenu, as as I talked about a little while in the past,
a little while ago, Todd and Paul at Everyday Driver
reached out, they saw some of the Matt Ferris stuff that he did on this car,
your old car, my current car.
Yeah.
They so they approached me about doing a review of this thing.
We talked about what that was like.
Well, they just published their video.
So if you have not seen it yet, go to Everyday Driver on YouTube.
And those guys are real pros.
The visuals are awesome, as always.
It was really fun to watch.
But now we get to give our opinions on this.
And I have lots of opinions.
And Todd Deacon did agree to come on this podcast.
I know they're traveling.
So we're going to get to have some fun with him about this.
Good, good.
But before you share your opinions, I think it suffices to say
I largely agree with their their review of my car
and and I take exception to a couple of things
or just think that their context was a little off at times.
So what was your take?
Yeah, I think they I agree with most of what they've said as well.
I think they spent a lot more time emphasizing how good
the Elise platform is and that you don't need to go to these extreme levels
to get to get the satisfaction where I kind of feel that they missed out on
is talking more about how much faster the 11 RS is versus their their standard car.
You know, you had expressed, you know,
before the video aired, how you were in his car
trying to follow him in the canyons and you had no hope and you're a good driver.
So I know, you know, you were given
at everything you had to try to keep pace with with the the RS and you couldn't.
And so, you know, speed costs money, right?
And so ultimately, their audience, you know, everyday driver audience,
my guess is that these are guys that are looking more for value
than, you know, have a blank check to to stroke for for more performance.
Because, you know, again, speed costs money, right?
So, yeah, yeah, I thought I was good overall.
And I am looking forward to talking to him
because I think it'd be fun to kind of chat and talk about, you know,
some of those differences, because the truth is his car wasn't entirely stock.
He had nitrons on that car.
So if you actually if you are driving an actual stock car,
there would be some differences and that further differences
that could that they could have brought out if the car truly was stock.
So, yeah, yeah.
Well, where I agreed with them is, yeah, Lotus,
the Solises are pretty good cars.
They they're fun to drive.
And when you first, because I drove Todd's car, the first semi-stock
Elise I have ever driven and first non-111 RS.
So I kind of started at the top with my my Elise experience.
And but it was interesting at first glance, it was like, yeah,
this is still a pretty good car.
It was after though, and I wasn't driving very hard.
We were on a great twisty road.
It was after the shoot, when I jump back into my car is when I was like, yes,
Todd took off in my car and he was really freaking fast.
And I know because I've driven my car on track and I can go around a track
as fast in this car as it came in GT4, which a stock Elise is going
to get taken out behind the woodshed against, you know, it's just
they're not in the same class in this 111 RS.
Similarly, you can take a stock Elise out in the performance category
and just beat it down like that is there's there's no denying that.
And they even say that in their review that if you're driving in a line
up of cars, this 111 RS is going to be out front because it is fast.
Kind of like what you just said from your rally at Hawking Hills.
It was like they are really quick.
And so that is so when you put it in that context, it's like they said
a lot of the right stuff, but then they came down to, well, in their review
or in their summary, yeah, but this was really expensive.
And I thought, well, but how do you make it turn a car like a stock Elise,
which honestly, performance wise is in an entirely different class
of this 111 RS and turn it into this fire breather that can run with GT Porsches.
Like, you know, $80,000 to me is a lot of money.
Yes. But when you start thinking about what, five seconds off a lap time,
30, 40 percent faster than this car, it's like, well, what is a 911 versus a GT3?
I mean, you're talking about $80,000, let's say more expensive or $100,000 more expensive.
What is the incremental performance increase between those two cars?
And it's like, to your point, Shenu, speed costs money, it costs real money.
And to think that these two are remotely on the same planet, that was the biggest
thing that I think they missed is when he said in the summary, he said,
I think this 111 RS, how much better is it?
Maybe fractionally.
And I think they may have a point if you're talking about livability of the car.
It may not be more livable than a stock Elise, but anybody buying an Elise
for livability to me, I think is absolutely missing the mark.
So why are we even taking that into consideration?
It should 100 percent be about how enjoyable is this car to drive first?
And what is its capability profile?
And it blows a stock or a stock Elise with nitrons on it, in my opinion, out of the water.
It's just not, I don't think you can compare the two.
Yeah, I agree.
For somebody who's never driven a Lotus, for somebody who's more of a beginning driver,
yeah, it's pearls to swine to throw them into an RS versus a standard Elise.
A standard Elise is going to give them all the more fields than they've ever had.
But I think for those of us with experience, those of us who drive on track or aggressively in
the canyons and have got a lot of seat time in mid-engine cars, you'll be able to tell the
difference. There's simply no question. You'll be able to go significantly faster in the RS
versus even his lightly tuned Elise. But yeah, that's OK. Overall, it was good.
It's always good to get some press out there and glad to see. I mean, I'm thankful.
I'm grateful that they took the time to drive the car and make their comments.
I think it's worthwhile.
Yeah. And like I said, I agree with most of what they said. It is a lot of money.
And you've got to really care about that. But in my case, you know, I've never really been
interested in. I've always been interested in the leases, but there's a reason I had never bought
one. And there's a reason when I found out you were selling your car. I'm like, OK, I think this
is the Elise that speaks to me because I know what a standard Elise, at least on paper, can do.
I had been passenger in one and driven one real slowly, whatever.
But I was interested in an Elise that can run with GT4s. That's what I wanted. And boy, have I
been pleased in terms of what that car was transformed into. And I also agree with them.
Yes, it's a lot of money. And no, you should not look at your standard Elise and somehow feel
inferior, you know, because but it's a different car in my book. It's not something you can go out
run with big boys on track with in like I've been able to do in my 111 RS. So
I think in many respects, they're right. It's a lot of money. The standard Elise is really good.
And yes, that is a hell of a platform with which to build kind of a monster little canyon carver
track toy. And so yeah, I mean, I agree with them in most respects, frankly, I just think
that's where they that they undersold what it takes to turn that car into what it now is.
Well, they certainly were comparing, you know, the car to these half 0 dollar
restomods, you know, and this is the car that's essentially 100 grand, you know. But the other
thing is most of what we do at Inno Kinetic is sell parts, you know, and so you can inch your way
towards that. Or you could say, you know what, I don't need all those aesthetic changes, you know,
the RS has. Maybe I just want to do the suspension or maybe I just want to do the shifter and or the
supercharger. So there's, you know, you don't have to do the entire car to get gains from it. But
yeah, anyways, but this actually kind of tease up that listener question that you you you've
brought brought up. Is this the perfect time to ask that question? Our friend Heidi. Yes,
question. And it is, what is your greatest automotive mistake or regret? The most expensive
mistake you made as a car enthusiast is what she asked. So what's yours? Should I think can you
think of one? Yeah, I mean, there's been many. There's been many because I'm the guy that can't
leave well enough alone, right? But so there's some mistakes that are, you know, things that I put on
cars. And then there's also some mistakes I've I've made in the car that cost me a lot of money,
right? So let's let's let's start with that one. Okay, let's start with brain fade on a race track.
You know, I was in the cool down lap, okay, where you're supposed to go slower, right? And I let my
mind wander. And I went through a corner at, honestly, three quarters the speed that I was
normally going through it just a lap before. And I just left my mind, you know, wander, and I wasn't
paying attention. I put two wheels off the rocks at Spring Mountain. This was years ago when when
they had they still had a lot of rocks on the side. And I just read at the side of my car,
all the fiberglass was just completely annihilated holes. It was bad. I was like, I didn't lose control
of the car. But, you know, the sound of all that was just like horrible, you know. And so,
yeah, that was that was an expensive bodywork. And a lot of rocks, we had a fun lot to get out of the
car. But what that's an example of part of why we I think love to drive on track is the amount of
mental kind of focus that it requires. Yes, is is really unlike almost anything you'll do. You
cannot be thinking about work. You can't be thinking about home life. You got to be focused
on what's in front of you, even when you're going seven tenths of what you have been driving at.
And so your your it became very expensive of loss of focus on a racetrack, which
so easy to do. I've been there many times where I'm it it can happen to me when I get lapping
and nobody's around. And it's like I'm trying to push, but I'm not following anybody. It's like
where is everyone? Yeah, and I just kind of get into this days of like, sure, sure. And so loss
of focus on track can be very expensive for sure. Any others that you think of? You know,
one of the first mufflers I ever put on a car, it was on my E 36 325 I and it came from a brand
called B&B. And it was it was their tri flow, you know, exhaust. And, you know, when your foot was
in it, it was glorious. But when you're cruising around, it droned so badly. And, you know, like
my wife used to laugh, she's like, I can hear you coming from from, you know, six blocks away,
you know, and it just, it was just too loud. It was obnoxious. And so that was an expensive
mistake because I couldn't live with that. And I eventually, you know, switched it out and got
a super sprint system from Italy, which turned out to be perfect. But yeah,
modifications always, whether you like them or not, whether they're dealer installed or not,
like that M2 we talked about or the 111 RS. Now, I think the 111 RS should hold value really
pretty well, given what it is and whatever. But you're still taking a car and adding a bunch of,
you know, parts to the car. To some extent, you have to try to reconcile that as mods, mods can
get very expensive really quickly. And in many cases, like a 111 RS, they will add value to the
car. In some cases, though, they don't nor do you, can you expect to get 100% of your dollars back?
So that's a great way to flush money. I think for me too, expensive mistakes. I think the mistake
of being kind of a malcontent, frankly, of, you know, when I think about all the cars that I've
owned and daily drivers, and it's like, I'm going to try this car, then I'm going to try that car.
And it gets really expensive because every time you turn over cars, which I've done a lot,
you're running a little bit of a risk. And, you know, because you've got to sort the car,
you've got to make it what you want to make it. Yeah, I've made a fair share of those for sure.
Now, the question is, are they really mistakes or is this all part of the experience?
You know, like you said, no cars are worth getting into financial kind of stress over.
I don't think anybody, especially not as I've waxed lyrical about any Miata's,
should be reaching beyond their financial limits for a car when an any Miata exists.
That's like, but yeah, so, you know, to many of us, yeah, they are mistakes. Hopefully,
they're not true mistakes that have lasting consequences, maybe buying that 991 GT3 and the
motor blows. So it's like, well, great, I bought it for 150 grand, but now I'm into it 225 because
I had to replace the motor. Make sure you factor all these things in and you, you can avoid like
real mistakes. And if you're too uncomfortable with the prospects, you got to go play the depreciation
game and buy newer cars or Miata's exists, which is really awesome because there's times when I think
it's, it's the answer. But yeah, there's mistakes or oftentimes just experiences and I'm, and I'm
glad to have had many of those. Fortunately, I've not yet, you know, sunk in my financial situation
over this, although I would be wealthier without it. Well, you know, listen, you know, having
experiences in life, right? Enjoying your hobbies. These aren't, these things for the most part are
not free. You know, maybe reading is somewhat free, but driving cars, driving on racetracks,
golfing, right? Fishing, you know, these are all activities that cost some amount of money,
whatever the hell that is. And so, yeah, no, I think listening to our podcast is free.
Yes, that's true. We appreciate those who are listening.
And getting our newsletter is free, right? So go to the newsletter is free.
Tell your friends about this. Hit us up on social media. If you, if you're gonna be at
car week, let us know. We'd love to have dinner with you. And anyway, we're gonna try to organize
a little, you know, an evening get together. And we've got one boutique car manufacturer that we're
talking to, to hopefully have their car on display for us as well. So it could be kind of fun. But
yeah, we'll get some more details as we organize that for sure.
Chanel, it's been fun as always, covered a lot of ground. I'm going to see you in a next week,
actually. Next week. Really excited about that. So we got the track and fired up. So it's, it's,
it's all set for you to go to take it for a little run. And if we can pull off the logistics of this,
we may even do a live podcast. You knew and I in the same room. So we've got to get that figured
out. Absolutely. I look forward to it. She thinks as always, man. And in the meantime,
get out and drive your cars. I plan to do the same. That's right. That's right. See you next week,
Blair. See you.
About this episode
Blair shares his surprising daily driver dilemma after testing a manual BMW 335i back-to-back with a dual-clutch E90 M3, sparking a debate on modern versus classic BMW steering and engine feel. Meanwhile, Shanu recaps an epic Lotus road rally in Ohio, offering a detailed comparison of the Emira V6 and the AMG-powered Emira Turbo. The hosts also preview a head-to-head matchup between a stock Lotus Elise and Shanu’s custom 111RS build, proving that lightweight engineering still rules the road.
Original notes
This week on Full Throttle Talk, Blair and Shinoo get into the real cost of chasing performance—and where the smart automotive buys may still be hiding.
Blair compares a manual BMW 335 xDrive with an E90 M3 DCT in his search for a daily driver, while Shanu returns from the Hocking Hills Road Rally with thoughts on the Lotus Emira V6 versus the Turbo.
They also break down Porsche’s simulated EV shifting, the ZR1X Corvette’s Pikes Peak run, Polestar’s uncertain U.S. future, the Slate EV truck, and the possibility of a Porsche 911 GT4 road car.
Then it is time for auction watch: a low-mile 991.1 GT3, a surprisingly affordable $44K manual 911 Carrera, and a heavily optioned BMW M2 that became a lesson in depreciation.
Finally, they react to Everyday Driver’s review of Blair’s 111RS Lotus Elise and answer a listener question: What is the most expensive automotive mistake you have made?
Get out and drive your cars.
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