Annotations will appear as you listen
0:00
69:33
Car
Porsche 911 GT3 R
A race-only version of the Porsche 911 built for professional and amateur teams to compete in sports car championships around the world.
Car
Porsche 963
A high-tech, hybrid race car built by Porsche to compete in the world's most prestigious endurance races, like the 24 Hours of Le Mans.
Term
BOP
A set of rules in racing that adds weight or limits power on faster cars so that different types of cars can race closely and fairly against each other.
Car
Hyundai Genesis
The Genesis is a luxury car line created by the South Korean company Hyundai. It is designed to offer high-end comfort and modern technology at a lower price than other luxury brands.
Car
Ford Mustang
The Ford Mustang is a famous two-door sports car made by the American company Ford. It is designed to look sporty and go fast while remaining relatively affordable.
Car
Porsche Cayman
A smaller, two-door sports car from Porsche that has its engine in the middle of the car (behind the seats) for incredible handling. It is typically more affordable than the iconic 911.
Car
Cayman S
The Cayman is a two-door sports car made by Porsche with its engine in the middle. The 'S' version uses a specific four-cylinder engine designed to make the car go faster.
Car
Porsche 911 (991.2)
A version of the Porsche 911 sold in the late 2010s that introduced turbocharged engines to the standard models to improve fuel efficiency and power.
Car
911 Carrera Cup Car
The 911 GT3 Cup is a race car built by Porsche that is only allowed to be driven on race tracks, not public roads. It is built with no passenger seats or luxury features to make it as fast as possible for racing competitions.
Car
Porsche Boxster
The Porsche Boxster is a two-seat convertible sports car made by Porsche. Because its engine is located in the middle of the car rather than the front or back, it balances very well and is fun to drive.
Car
BMW M240I
The BMW 2 Series is a small luxury car made by the German company BMW. It is designed to be sporty, compact, and fun to drive.
Term
PTS
A special option from Porsche that lets buyers pay a large extra fee to paint their new car in almost any custom color they want, instead of the standard factory options.
Car
Porsche 928
The Porsche 928 is a vintage luxury sports car made by Porsche in the 1980s and 1990s. Unlike most Porsche sports cars, it has its large engine in the front and was designed for comfortable, long-distance driving.
Term
Targa
A style of car roof where you can take off the middle section over your head, but the rear window and a metal bar behind your head stay in place.
Car
Porsche Cayenne
The Porsche Cayenne is a large, luxury family SUV made by Porsche. It is designed to be spacious and comfortable while still driving like a fast sports car.
Car
Honda Civic
The Honda Civic is a highly popular, affordable compact car made by the Japanese company Honda. It is widely known for being dependable, cheap to run, and easy to drive.
Car
Porsche 911 Turbo (996)
A high-performance, turbocharged version of the Porsche 911 from the early 2000s. It is famous for having an incredibly tough engine that can last for hundreds of thousands of miles.
Concept
Mezger engine
A legendary engine design used in high-performance Porsche 911s. It is famous among car enthusiasts for being incredibly tough, powerful, and reliable under racetrack conditions.
Concept
Bore scoring
A serious engine problem where the moving parts inside the engine scratch the cylinder walls. This causes the engine to burn oil, lose power, and eventually require an expensive rebuild.
Car
Lexus LS430
A large, extremely comfortable luxury sedan built by Toyota's luxury brand in the early 2000s. It is famous for being incredibly quiet, smooth, and almost never breaking down.
Car
Porsche Taycan
The Porsche Taycan is a high-performance, fully electric luxury car with four doors. It runs entirely on battery power instead of gasoline.
Place
Leipzig
A city in Germany where Porsche has a large, modern factory that builds several of their popular models and has its own race track for testing.
Topic
Luftgekühlt
A famous car show and gathering specifically for older, air-cooled Porsche cars, known for being held in cool, artistic locations.
LIVE
We are here to bring you everything
and anything surrounding Porsche.
I'm Mike.
I'm Aaron.
And this is Peacart Talk.
All right, welcome to the episode of Peacart Talk.
I'm Mike.
And I'm Aaron.
All right, let's thank our Patreon people.
If you're interested in Patreon and helping us out,
helping us, basically there is bills associated
with this, obviously, like running a website and.
These lights.
Yeah, no, but actually like the stuff we pay for
to get this engineered to get out to the masses.
It's not just click and upload.
There's more to it than that.
But these are our folks that help us out.
If you are interested, make sure you go to the website
and you can find it.
I mean, you've bought stuff before.
It's not that hard to figure out.
Just it's related to Patreon
and we would appreciate any type of help.
So please help us.
And Aaron, let's thank them.
Yeah, you can do it on the website
or on Instagram, there's a link for our link tree.
And these are our top people, we have others.
We just don't mention, we call them big dogs.
There we go, big contributors, right?
Yeah.
So yeah, Leslie, Chris, Steve, Ken, Richard,
Sean, and Nick.
Thank you guys so much.
Sounds like that list is getting smaller.
Why don't you guys pump it up, do something, help us.
No, we appreciate all the help.
We're grateful, don't want to sound greedy,
but we do like more Patreon if you could help us.
To be clear, if you're a new listener and you don't know,
that money isn't going into our pockets,
that money is just helping us run operations essentially.
So just so you know, let's get the move in.
So talk trash last episode about a dismal race weekend.
Just like if you hang around long enough,
the weather will change.
We had a great race weekend this one just passed, right?
So let's go ahead and start over across the pond and spa.
Lionheart Racing customer team won the 24 hours of spa
in GT3R, so congratulations to them.
Went to bed, woke up, whoa.
Yeah, so yeah, good for them, pretty awesome.
And then Imsa, they were at the Glen,
if you didn't watch that, six hour race.
JC Miller, the customer Porsche 963 team,
they finished third on the podium.
So the other teams didn't do so well, like factory team,
I think it was six and seven, I think.
If you have Lauren Heinrich, good chance you're gonna be
in a good spot, and so they,
I don't know if you watched any of that or not,
but they kept talking about 25 spec versus 26 spec.
I remember them talking about it.
And I was like, so why did we change specs
if we didn't have to, or did they have to, or?
Well, I don't know if they had to,
but I think that conversation that was had
about changing specs too,
I think they said that the newer car was lighter.
However, they're being BOP'd, I wanna say 38 pounds
of ballast per car, so they made the car lighter,
but they're being penalized.
I think it's the opposite.
I think the 25 is lighter, 26 has got more power,
but they got more weight because of the more power.
Okay, I'll take your word for it.
So, I mean, but either way,
it's still there's a difference in spec.
Yeah.
And obviously it's making a difference for Lauren.
Well, it could be experience,
so you have more time in that specific car.
It could be all of those drivers too.
They're trying to drive the car
like they were driving it last year,
and it's not behaving the same for them.
So there could be that,
and obviously they're not sharing that with the public
because that's race strategy, so there's that.
But yeah, then the next part, first form,
and Mantaigh combined team,
they took first overall in GTD, so good for them.
That's pretty awesome.
Nice seeing them on the podium,
and then Wright's Motorsports took second.
So overall, good weekend in the US,
good weekend across the pond for Porsche.
Right when you're down in the dumps,
you get picked right back up, right?
Get a couple wins.
Come back.
Nothing makes you feel better than doing that, right?
So staying on the topic of racing news,
this is interesting.
So the 963 is confirmed coming out next year,
and it wasn't confirmed in the situation
where they just flat out asked if it was coming out.
One of the journalists was talking about driver lineup,
and driver lineups have come out for 2027.
Yeah, because everything's switching around, yeah.
So the fact that there's a driver lineup
for the 963s,
writing's on the wall that they're coming back.
So they did make a very distinct comment
like they did this past year
when they were announcing the race teams
and saying that we won't be at Le Mans again.
So they will continue to race in the EMSA series,
which is not shocking based off,
if you do your history,
Roger Penske has a lot of history in racing in EMSA
and a lot of US sanctioned race events.
So it's not surprising that he's,
I guess, deciding to spend more time
as an American on US soil as opposed to going in
and racing in FIA or WEC in Europe,
even though Porsche's a European team.
Yeah, it's supporting two different specs
and a lot of things.
So there's that part where he's not,
they're committing to race another season,
at least in the US, so that's good.
We were wrong in a good way.
My theory behind that is Porsche
probably heard us talking trash.
Yeah, absolutely.
They changed their entire outlook
on what the 2027 race season was going to be,
allocated millions of funds just to prove us wrong.
I'm sticking to that and I believe that,
so I'm okay with that.
Somebody made podcasts,
walked into the big guy's room
and was like, 963 on a white board.
Nine, this guy's, I think he's wrong.
We'll spend millions and show him.
Thanks.
Either way, in all jokes, I'm happy they're coming back.
I'm happy that we're going to be able to get to see them.
I'm sure all race fans have probably already read that.
If you haven't read it
and you're getting new news from us, good news for you.
You get to see that car another season.
When we were ringing that bell,
thinking that car was going to be done.
Based off of the intelligence that we're providing to us,
kind of looked that way, right?
With the liveries, they kind of did the same thing
with the RSR when they sent it off.
They kind of did the same thing with the prototype hybrid
that they were running before, the LMP.
I mean, we still have to get the 2027 race season
for it to be a thing.
I mean, even though they're calling it out.
Yeah.
You wouldn't call all the driver lineup of your own cars
if you weren't going to race next year.
I think that would be kind of a shiesty thing to do,
especially since they're employed by you.
And I think you can't be that covert about it
because obviously Emsa has to plan for them
to be on the grid.
They have to plan for them to have slots in places.
They've got to be on all official documents.
Everybody's going to get passes, all that stuff.
It goes in that Emsa handles behind the scenes.
So this couldn't be a, oh, just kidding situation.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
Clearly it does.
The important thing is when we were talking about them leaving,
we were concerned that they weren't going to get to compete
against some of the newer brands that are coming in,
which we were really sad about.
However, that's not going to be the case.
We're going to actually get to see them
go against all this new metal that's coming in,
which is going to be huge because finally,
after all of this, we've been waiting all this time
in this class finally, the people that are going to be there
are supposed to be there now.
Is Pugatiak's going to be there?
I don't think so.
They've been off, like other than when they announced
this class, that was the last time they said anything
about them being there.
We already know Lambeau has dabbled
so that that's not a new development.
They've been in and out.
They've picked and choose essentially
what races they want to be in.
Same with Ferrari.
We've seen them at Seabring.
We've seen them at Daytona,
but they only pick the big ones
since they're more of a wet car.
And I think some of these will be that.
We saw the debut of Genesis.
That's a big one, if you're not paying attention.
Genesis to the arm of, I guess it's Hyundai?
Is it Hyundai?
Yeah, Hyundai.
Going hardcore on racing,
I mean, going straight after the big boys,
not even trying to run in some GTD class
or any of some lower class.
They're like a Ford Mustang or anything.
They're like, nope, we're going straight in.
We want to go big dog.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Probably the reason why they're doing
their flagship car thing that they're doing.
And there's a couple others
that are supposed to join next year.
So the grid in that hypercar class,
if you want to call it prototype class,
where it's supposed to be the top dogs,
it's gonna be pretty filled with a lot of different brands
which we were hoping for the very beginning.
And it was kind of a mixed bag.
There were people that were having problems
with their cars that weren't showing up.
There were some showing up like Pujo was in, Pujo was out.
We've seen Aston running the naturally aspirated V12,
which is glorious.
So my point about sharing all that information
is next season is building up to be a great race season
because there's gonna be some new blood in there,
essentially.
Has Alpine raced in the States?
I feel like I've seen them.
I don't think so.
As far as the Emsa race schedule,
I didn't check into that.
And I doubt who's confirmed to be at Daytona yet.
I think that comes later in the year.
I know who's confirmed.
We are.
Well played, well played, sir.
Yeah, I know who's gonna be there.
This guy.
But yeah, so that's super exciting.
I really, really wasn't just talking trash
and we weren't talking trash thinking that that was the end.
We were just trying to be ahead of the game.
And a lot of times it doesn't,
we're not super intelligent from that.
We're just basically going off of past data
and comparing it to the data that that's being presented.
And usually you can have a pretty good outcome
of what the final result's gonna be.
This time we were wrong.
And I'm happy we're wrong.
Is it a full two cars?
Yep, they're gonna run two cars.
So as we talked about before where some announcements
were made, where some drivers were being loaned,
guys were still being loaned.
But strategically, they made room
for people like Heinrich next year.
So they've kind of saying,
hey, Vanthor, you guys, we still love you.
But if you wanna kinda do some other stuff,
we still own you.
You can't share race data.
You can go race with other programs.
You can go get paid there.
But you're still a Porsche ambassador.
So be mindful.
Here's your NDA.
If you step outside of this,
we will sue the balls off you, et cetera, et cetera.
And by the way, the young guns are gonna be in your seat.
So no hard feelings, pretty much without saying that.
But it is what it is, right?
People age out, new blood comes in.
It happens.
It's all things work.
Unfortunately, it does.
Can't be a top dog forever, right?
Yeah.
There's always somebody hungrier.
There's always somebody at once more.
Because the new guy and the 77 King,
I think he's one of the younger guys
that came in for that car, for Rexie.
And also you gotta think about,
like any organization, we're talking about racing,
yes, that's fun, but structurally,
it's gonna present very similar to a business world
where if you have young talent
and you don't give them a shot
and you bred that young talent,
that young talent's only gonna hang out for so long
before they skip town.
That's just how it works.
Yeah.
And if you don't give them their shot,
and especially when they think it's due,
and you can only put them off for so long,
hey, we're gonna give you your shot,
hey, we're gonna give you your shot,
you keep giving somebody empty promises, well, guess what?
Eventually that person's gonna build resentment,
and then they're gonna go somewhere
and really kick ass because they're pissed at you now.
Yeah, they leave in there better.
Yeah, well, they're gonna drive with a chip on their shoulder,
or they're gonna go get a job with a chip on their shoulder
and they're gonna be pissed off about it,
and then it's gonna drive,
it's almost like the Michael Jordan effect
where you create a demon that you have to fight
whether there's one there or not.
And a lot of times people that have those kind of things
makes them step up and rise above,
probably their potential would have been
if they would have stayed put.
So anyways, I digress.
Change of topic, still on racing, kind of weird, GT4R.
I'm the launcher of that too, it's just like,
What?
Hey, we got a new race car.
Yeah.
All right.
You're like, hey, so we no longer make the Cayman,
so we can't do a Cayman club sports series
or anything like that, but we still wanna run that series
because we still want the money
from the people who wanna run that series.
What if we just change the name of the 911R
and not give it so much arrow
and make it look like a street GT3, essentially?
So this, I mean, to me, what this said was like,
for all those thinking that they had said
that they're not gonna make a Cayman,
but they're gonna make a Cayman, no.
This was like, nope.
And then my other thought is,
well, if they're really clean in the house, like we said,
and they're doing a 911 only thing,
what's to say, like a 912 version
or something where it's super D2,
not even like a competitive line,
but still a 911 comes out with a four cylinder,
like putting that in there.
Yeah, like, why couldn't they basically take the two and a half
liter flat four that's in the Cayman S currently
or the outgoing Cayman S, I should say,
tune that a little bit more
because if you don't know the numbers,
I do because I've been looking.
Yeah.
The Cayman S, like 17 through current on paper,
they make 350 horsepower.
Well, the 991.2, three liter turbo makes 370 horsepower.
So if they just did a little tune bump,
and from what I understand,
there's a lot left on the shelf
and that two and a half liter flat four.
So if you tune that, now you put in that car over 400,
and that could be your entry level 911.
Yeah, and would they be able to get the price down enough or?
Well, I think they could.
Now, it's gonna be up to them with their greed,
whether they're willing to do that or not.
Because if it's priced similar to a flat six,
why would anybody ever buy it?
Like, that's the whole reason why the 912
originally came out as you mentioned.
And I don't know.
There's a big price, it should be a big price variant.
I didn't look at the GT4 enough,
but I don't think sizing changed.
But if it did, which I was kind of thinking,
well, maybe they make a narrow body,
then maybe they finally make a narrow body.
Not that it would have production,
but it would be smaller, could be something there.
But I mean, it's cool that there's another glass
of 911, I guess.
Well, on top of that too,
to piggyback on what you were saying,
they can't run a race that a car that's not in production.
So there's that.
There's too much money behind that series anyway.
Well, exactly.
I mean, it's a, we don't really pay attention to it,
but it's kind of an international series too.
There's a national series and an international series
where they run it in Europe, they run that in Asia.
So that would be a lot of money,
as I'm sure they're aware of.
They did the X's and O's on it,
and was like, we're gonna lose a ton of money
if we just abandon this series without something.
And it either, I mean, it does one of two things too.
Like, well, one, it forces everybody with those game ins,
even if they were running an older one,
now they got a bad new car because of the series.
Absolutely.
But then do they get to combine any series together?
Cause it's all cup series now.
Like, I don't know.
I don't know how they're doing this series if it's straight.
I'm sure it's gonna be out with the old and with the new.
And when I was writing this,
I thought about that immediately.
I was like, well, it makes sense though.
It doesn't make sense from the standpoint of the name
or the nomenclature behind what they're doing.
It's an evolution though.
But it makes sense of why they're doing it
because there is no Cayman to sell street Cayman.
So I know it's possible they have done series like that
before where it's strictly a race car
and they don't make a street car version of it.
But Porsche really doesn't dabble that way.
If they're racing it,
they use usually some type of street version of it.
So they're probably, that was their mindset.
And they weren't gonna develop a car.
And this was probably coming anyways,
even if they would have launched that EV car,
they weren't gonna run a series
and then only sell the EV version of it,
especially if it's combustion series.
Like that doesn't add up.
And it's full, it's naturally aspirated.
It's not turbo or hybrid or nothing.
Yeah, so essentially it's a GT3,
but it's not a cup car GT3.
It looks different.
Well, if you look at the wing,
the cup car wing is way taller, right?
So this actually has, if you look at it,
it looks like it has a factory wing,
like a factory GT3 wing.
It looks optically when you look at it,
it's the livery that they put on it, kind of like.
I thought it looked smaller.
I don't know if that's true.
But I think that's the livery though.
I think that's what I was leading towards.
I think it does something to your eyes when you look at it.
And I think that was very purposeful
for them launching that the way it is,
to kind of hide it.
Because I think it's the dimensions,
I couldn't really find it.
It looks like a GT3.
I know that like the tail way.
I know it's a newer design.
Yeah, yeah.
That's probably something that's wrong.
Yeah, I'm not saying it's like a 991.1 GT3,
but I'm saying it's, I think it's that size of car though.
The difference is it just doesn't have a monster wing
for Aero and all that, for the Carrera Cup series
because they already make a Carrera Cup car.
So they couldn't very well just turn that car
into this series because that's not what this series is.
It's supposed to be a step down.
But it is weird to see a GT4 badge on a 911.
That's kind of the big thing that,
I know it's just a series,
but I think just because it's been associated
with the Cayman from its inception,
and we know there's a Cayman GT4 or there's a Cayman GT4 RS.
So it's kind of one of those things where,
engraved in our brains, we're kind of like,
hey, this is a GT4 series is supposed to be a Cayman.
Nope, not anymore.
Now it's a 911.
So there's that.
It is a bit confusing.
Do you think,
I heard what you said
and I kind of want to open that up a little bit
where you said, well, this shows me speaking about you,
what you're just quoting you saying,
well, this shows me that they're not making a Cayman.
I don't necessarily agree with that.
So let's talk about that for a second.
Maybe just the Cayman's not ready right now.
And that's why this is the way it is.
And this is an opportunity for them
to basically sell more customer racing 911s.
They could very well continue on with this series without it.
And then still develop a Cayman.
I mean, you got to think there was a Cayman
prior to that series even coming up.
Remember that the Cayman was around before that.
It didn't really start its business
until what, 16 when the GT4 first came out
and they were like, hey, we can do a race series
around this now.
Prior to that, it was just kind of an entry level
Porsche for somebody who was aspiring to maybe have a 911,
but needed a lower entry mark
to get into the brand in a sports car.
That was the goal of that car
and didn't want to have a convertible Boxster.
Yeah, but now they want more money.
And so that's another thing too.
I know that price went up on this car for this series.
So of course, like everything they're doing, again,
they're forcing you to the new car.
It's more money.
Pay to play, man.
More fusion.
Yeah, milk and the people that they can.
And less, I guess less areas of production
if it really is the same body shell and everything.
I really don't see them.
I know we've waffled around with the topic
and it's truly just speculation.
I just don't see them carrying on long term.
And obviously short term, we know the car is gone,
but long term without an entry level sports car
just because the price entry point is so high on a 911.
And like you said, oh, maybe there'll be a 912 that comes back.
And that'll be the gap car.
I don't know though.
I really don't know.
Like I think they bring the Cayman back.
I don't know if it'll be called a Cayman still.
It might not be called that anymore,
but they gotta bring something back that's sub 100.
They have to.
Well, more they don't.
And then that's where we were at.
I mean...
I mean, I know there was a time and place that we lived.
It was before we were driving, but there was not,
there was just 911s.
I mean, I get that.
However, the business environment doesn't allow them
to scale the way without that car,
I guess is what I'm getting at.
Well, I mean, they, it might,
I mean, the SUV is giving out on the Caymans enough
where it doesn't matter.
Have you seen how much those cost?
Like brand new Cayans, they're...
I mean, I'm not saying they're super expensive too.
I'm just saying, since if you're gonna position yourself
as a luxury band, then you have a floor
and your floor is now 160, 170.
Whatever you wanna call it, you know,
you're naming it, you're naming your thing
because you don't have it.
You no longer have a discounted item.
Man, you're inventory, so you're now this.
I think they've lost the plot, if I'm being honest.
Because they're trying to be something that they're not
and they never have been.
So, and I know they're all about trying to be innovative
and moving to another level, but I don't see...
Let's just take other brands, for example.
How many people in an Exodus situation
used to be hardcore BMW enthusiasts
because they used to make driving cars, right?
And then, that hands it be, and all the lever pullers
that go and chase all the money for the company,
they basically ruined BMW over the last,
I guess, the better part of 15 years
with all these M240i, M this, they diluted,
we've talked about it, they diluted the enthusiasm
behind what an M badge used to mean, and...
But did it scale?
Well, they sold a crap ton of them, right?
But I'm saying that's fine,
but Porsche's going the opposite way.
They're making less cars as opposed to more cars.
BMW decided, hey, we're gonna,
that's okay if we're diluting this,
but we want to appeal to the masses.
Porsche's not doing appealing to the masses at all.
They're gonna make the demographic smaller,
price like it, and hope it works.
But the problem is, is they employ, they have too much.
They don't have a small footprint like Ferrari
or Lamborghini, they have a huge footprint.
So, when you have a huge footprint,
you have to make a huge footprint of money.
You can't...
That's true, they have all these dealers and stuff,
that they've been servicing at this level.
How could their dealer network, for example,
look at their experience centers.
Like they scaled up, they built all this stuff.
They have classic centers.
They have all these build locations.
Generations of buildings, yeah.
Yeah, they have all this stuff.
And now you want to downsize and be opulent
and go minimalistic.
What do you do with all of you clothes?
That's an interesting position
because your dealerships now have a certain amount of space
and now if you're not even getting that many cars,
why am I paying for this amount of land?
So, or sales people, or managers.
So who gets heard in that, right?
The consumers, all of your employees,
everybody who bought into what you were doing
because now you're changing your entire game plan,
essentially your business forecast.
And you were doing fine.
Yes, you got derailed by EV, that's fine.
But I feel like you don't correct a problem
by making another drastic mistake.
I mean, I feel like they could get some of there.
Even if they, they did a concept in there
and took their service fees and said,
all right, so you have a Porsche already,
it's not a brand new one, they can categorize,
whether it's five years back or whatever it is,
to that point, and it's older,
then they give you a discount on your service fees
so you start bringing your car to the dealership
versus going into an independent.
Because if it wasn't $500 an hour, $400 an hour,
whatever it is, they'd get more business that way
and possibly get a new customer like in between that.
I think they just need to relook at the entire business,
not just the unit, AKA the car, and say,
well, if we make it this expensive
and somebody buys it enough, it'll fix things.
I don't know, I don't know if that's,
I don't know where they've had the business case
where that makes sense for them.
But like you said, that makes,
everything you just said makes perfect sense though
because you think about it,
oh, well no one's servicing their cars here
because it's too expensive.
Okay, well, you know what we'll do
is we'll just make our cars even more expensive
so more rich people will come here
and then more rich people will just get their car serviced.
No, that's not how that's gonna work.
More people are just gonna get turned off,
you're never gonna get any entry-level people that come in.
You're only getting either dot-com bros or money bros
that come in there, family money,
or people that already have money
and that's a small group of people.
And that, let's be honest,
most of those people care more about clout
as opposed to driving.
Which they don't have marketing
into that stuff right now, they just don't.
Porsche used to always be the enthusiast brand.
They always used to pitch, drive to the track in your car,
track it and drive it home.
Even with base 911s back in the day, they used to do that.
They have lost the plot, man.
That's what they used to do.
That's what now the cars are overweight.
Yes, they're still amazing, yes, they're great,
but they're more GT Cruisers now.
They're not nimble.
They have a big footprint.
Did you see how much they had GT34?
Or GT, yeah, GT34.
GT34 are getting set.
Do you know how much that weighs?
No. 3300 pounds.
Geez.
That's where you are.
That's way too heavy, dude.
I mean, weighs more than our cars.
Now I know it's a different time and all that stuff,
but still.
Anyways, the point of that is is,
I think they've lost the plot.
I think they just need to get back to basics.
And getting back to basics
is eliminating those cars, that's fine.
But something has to give.
They need to bring the price point down on those cars
and sell more of them.
I don't think they need to be a domestic car auto manufacturer
like Chevy or like, they're not looking at.
They'll never be that way.
Yeah, I know.
Their goal is never moving units.
However, the units that they do have to move,
they need to move them.
And they had all this R&D.
They developed all of these cars.
They stood up all of these platforms.
The money's there to abandon all of that
is just, you're wasting money, I feel like.
Why don't you just keep getting it back?
Why don't you just have like a turbo
and then have a 911, Tycan, turbo.
Like we talked about before.
Take some of the model lines out.
Cayman has to come back.
Boxster has to come back.
I don't care what they say.
We can, the data is there, it's public knowledge.
Those units moved when they made those cars.
People were buying them in a heavy amount.
A lot more than other cars that they sell.
And whether they want this new regime
and whoever they brought in and pulled out,
I don't know if they're not looking at that data,
but whatever their business strategy is,
they need to make sure that those cars come back
for multiple reasons.
A, financially they need to do it.
Secondly, it would pump excitement back into the brand
where they think that, I think social media obviously
has a big thing to do with it,
but does it influence brands?
To some degree, I think it does.
But they are forgetting about the people
that make less than 100 grand a year
or around 100 grand that want more for their money
as opposed to stretching so far,
they break to get a 911.
Some people just want to Cayman and they're happy
and that's okay because those are great cars
and because it's a Porsche product
and they put a lot of research into it.
There was a race series behind it.
There was all of this stuff.
There was, I don't know, I'm not trying to make a bid for it.
I'm just saying it doesn't make sense
from a business perspective to abandon a product.
I know why they originally abandoned it,
but and you have to shuffle and you have to pivot.
I get that.
I don't think it's a permanent abandonment though.
I think this is a temporary timeframe.
Because I think they know internally
that those two car Boxster Cayman,
they have to come back, they have to
because not everybody wants a damn 911
and that's the damn truth.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, they've already proven it to themselves.
Yeah, I mean, the sales show it.
Otherwise, those cars would have died a long time ago, right?
Those cars, like any product that anybody develops
that sells a product.
If the product doesn't sell,
then you stop selling the product.
But those cars were selling,
people were running to get their last orders
in when production was ending.
So it wasn't a lack of sales with those cars.
It was just the changing of, oh, we're gonna go to EV
and oh, the EU's already put all these security things on
and people can hack these cars.
So this is the perfect opportunity
to change what we're doing.
And honestly, no fault to them.
Like all of those stars kind of aligned
and that was, at that time,
that was the decision to be made
with the information they had,
with all of the changes in the legislature
and all the changes in government,
that was the right decision at the right time.
And they did the best they could
with the information that was provided to them.
That's all you can do.
All right, so Waving Magic Wand said they do come back.
They come back starting at 100.
Is that okay?
Or is that, I mean, because I don't know
what the cost is to actually build them,
but I'm sure it's not cheap
and it's not getting any cheaper.
For, you're talking about base model?
I don't think so.
If it's a base, so the base outgoing Cayman
was a two liter flat four.
It's gotta be sub 100 because no one's gonna pay,
no one's gonna pay over 100
for a two liter flat four Cayman.
They're just not, no one's gonna do that.
Could you still be, what, 60 grand less than a base?
9-11.
Yeah, I still think you got,
even if it's just a little, it's still gotta start.
I think 90's gotta be the base or something.
You gotta have something sub 100.
Yeah, break the 100.
You gotta have something that's less than 100.
So base Cayman, base Boxster has to be less than 100.
They have to be.
You just can't.
I mean, that's a lot of money.
Even with inflation, that's still,
$90,000 is a lot of money.
And honestly, a base Cayman or a base Boxster at 90,
even current, let's just call it,
let's just say that's the platform they have now.
Let's say there's a refresh
and they just look pretty or whatever it is.
So they don't look the same,
but just use your imagination from the outgoing cars.
That's still a very unattractive offer.
At 300 horsepower for a two liter flat four,
yes, it's mid-engine or you want the roof to go down.
Yes, it's a Porsche.
But at the same time, that's not an attractive offer.
I'm still taking my 90 and going somewhere else.
That's me.
I think there's probably a lot of people with me in my camp.
I mean, there's so much out there.
Yeah.
That price one.
So the answer you is,
I think it needs to be a lot less than even 90.
I mean, honestly, like we talk trash about,
hey, do this with a 911 and just strip it all out.
Take the nav out, take this out,
make people option in AC if they want,
make people option in, make it fun for them, make it,
okay, hey, I actually want no stereo.
I want no nav, heat, AC.
Can I get this car to $105,000?
And can I get a manual on a base?
Man, if they could do that,
if customers could walk in there and do that,
those things would probably sell out
because everybody would think that they have,
you know how Porsche people are.
They're like, oh, well, I don't even have PDLS headlights.
I don't have this, the car is super light.
I got it all the way down from the factory yet.
They would start bragging about weight
that they saved in the car.
You know Porsche people, they get into the weeds,
they'll start doing all this stuff.
They're like, I got the cloth interior,
they're manually adjustable.
I just have a manual shifter and that.
There's no music in it.
I got the rear seat delete.
I got, and it's a base model and that thing flies, bro.
It's better than a GT3.
You can already hear the conversation.
You can already hear these bros out on the mountain.
Yeah, man, the 994 totally like stripped out, bro.
Like, yeah, it's so good.
It's such a visceral experience, man.
It's like, shut the fuck up, man, like.
But you know people would eat it up.
You know they would eat that up.
I mean, you do not have to be a marketing genius.
You just have to know what the damn people want.
And they feel like they used to.
They used to know that.
And I feel like they've lost that somehow.
And I keep saying like because they IPO'd,
it could be because of that,
because now they have more hands
when they're trying to cook.
Well, you have a shareholder, you got some,
you got to get a performance.
What things have to get approved.
Well, things have to get approved.
You can't, the things that they used to do
in the golden days where they just sat in a room
and all the big dogs were in there
and, you know, pointing girls in there
and a couple other folks and the decision makers
to make cool cars are in there
and whoever all those execs are
and they're sitting in there
and they're like, these got real car guys
instead of people just trying to milk money out of people.
And they're like, hey, we should do this.
We can make a lighter flywheel.
We can do this.
So they're engineers at heart
and they're drivers at heart.
And that came through in the cars.
Now it's coming through.
It's like, we want your money.
Hey, guess what?
We've got a new PTS, you know, cardboard brown color
that's sick and it costs like $25,000
just to paint the car that
but it only cost us like $300 in paint, gotcha.
They wanted to make more money.
Why not just be cool and start, I mean,
there'd have to be a way
where they could open up their race car parts
and install them and do something
where it's still not diluting what they're building
as far as a race car and putting technology out there
where they would have a detriment to them.
What do you mean by that exactly?
Like if they had like different transmissions,
things they could go into the 3RS,
like actual parts from the race cars.
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Like when you're optioning, like maybe like a new car,
like there's more than what they're, I got you.
So you have a different level.
So you have like CXX, but then you have like RSR level.
Okay, so you have another opportunity to go even,
because they're already developing it.
So take your development cars from a race car
and go like this is the race car stuff I want,
but now it's being, it could be tuned
or highway safety or whatever.
Let's go one further.
If they're gonna go the opposite direction
and making things more expensive,
why not give another expensive level
to put parts in the car?
Well, I think eventually-
Make them send into portion of motorsports in North America.
Make it difficult.
Like, all right, oh, you need something done
with the motor, this has to go to California every time.
And it's gonna cost you X.
And so now that you got race cars
and you got regular customer cars,
they get to go in there and cost thousands of dollars
at a time, there's people that don't spend the money.
Yeah, of course, of course.
I see them, that would be a viable income source for them
if they did that.
I don't know.
It upsets me just because you used to be able to,
and again, this is prior to our time,
but we've heard the phrase,
which I do agree used to be a true phrase, no longer.
And it hasn't been for a long time.
Let's be real, it hasn't been the working man's car,
essentially, like if you busted your butt
and you saved your money, you could go get a Boxter or Cayman.
I mean, there was a day where you could walk in there
and spend $45,000 on a brand new Boxter
and walk out of there.
There was a day for that.
And yes, I understand there's inflation,
but including inflation and the Porsche cost of living
adjustment that they've made on their vehicles,
it almost was like a double increase, multiple increases.
And they're like, hey, well, we're not absorbing that cost,
we're gonna put that back on the customers.
I feel like they didn't used to operate that way.
And it kind of reflects, I guess.
I mean, another thing they could do
is just open up a second brand.
That's what all the other big manufacturers
have done a luxury line when they wanted to be luxury.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
That's a good point.
If they really want to make it go that direction,
that way they could still have to,
I mean, they still could be one umbrella, but still.
Yeah, then they could bring back the 928
and make a Aston front engine competitor
and all that stuff.
They could bring back whatever they wanted to bring back
and they could keep.
But I'm saying that could be their GT Cruiser, right?
If they want that so badly,
because it sounds like that's what they're trying to keep
doing to the 911, they try to keep making it softer,
it's getting less raw each year.
And to be fair, they're placating
towards the clients that are coming in there
because most of the clients that are coming in there
don't want hardcore stuff.
They're coming from America and asking
or something else.
They're a little soft, let's be real.
They've never been roughed up before.
They've never been in a dust up before.
There are people in there that probably live
pretty cushy life, you know?
So they want all the treats in the car.
They don't want, they don't want,
why is it so loud?
You ever been in a dust up?
Yeah.
When was the last time you've been in a dust up?
If you don't even know what that means,
get out of my office.
Step in here, why?
Cause you're fucking fired.
But yeah, and I have nothing wrong with those people.
I'm just saying that's who they're placating towards.
They're definitely not placating towards people
that are hardcore and their answer to that,
if you were to, if this was an open form question.
Well, this is why we have GT3 for those people.
Cause they, well, cause they,
it's like, okay, well you didn't remember,
so what was the car then?
I think the whole thing is like, even that perspective
is enthusiast and what piece of the pie is still enthusiast?
That's coming in there and buying the cars.
That's the question.
And I don't think it's ever been a big part,
but I think it was larger back in the day
because what else do you know than I love it?
Well, yeah, think about it.
And do you think for the longest time,
Porsche didn't even make an automatic transmission.
So then they placated to the, yeah, to people to be softer.
Once the 964 came in, they put a tiptronic in the car
and they made it the 993.
And I'm sure if we were driving Porsches or of the age,
when that happened, I'm sure the purists,
I wouldn't even call them purists,
just call them enthusiasts cause I don't really like purists
because that sounds like you're boring.
But let's just call it a 9-11 enthusiast.
I'm sure they probably lost their minds.
I would have lost my mind.
Can you imagine going all of those years
and the car is only a manual and they're like,
no, for 1989, we are gonna make automatic transmission.
And people are like, what the,
are you talking about right now?
Like why, what's the point of that?
It'd be funny to be able to roll back to younger Mike footage
and just you're just hating it for no reason.
What do you want?
What do you have an opinion?
Whispy mustache, what is the point of this?
Like dad glasses.
This is the worst thing that's ever happened.
Reading car and driver magazine,
just throwing it out the window.
Lighting it on fire.
I'm never buying this again.
But I mean, if you think about it,
all of those steps were just to placate towards people
who just wanted the brand.
They didn't even want the car
because of what its capability was.
They wanted to be able to sit there
and at dinner with their friends or at a barbecue
and be like, I just bought a new 911.
Like, oh, really?
You got the new one?
That thing's sick.
And it's like, no transmission discussion.
It's just, but in normal conversation,
most normal people don't ask that.
It's like, oh, did you get the manual?
People just say, oh, I got the 911.
And then you say the model.
Like, oh, I got a 911 turbo.
Oh, I have, you know, if it's older,
you say whatever the chassis code is
because we're broken that way.
Like normal people don't understand us, I get that.
But yeah, you're like, oh, no, I bought them.
But back then it was Cooper cab, basically, or a Targa.
It was red or white.
I mean, they didn't even have a turbo
for certain periods of time.
So it was kind of like the turbo wasn't even an option.
So I mean, again, there's definitely points
where the automatic would make sense.
Not, I mean, if you live in San Francisco
or you live somewhere where like you parked
on a 15 degree, like there's places
where that makes sense for people.
I get it.
There's a use case for it.
Yeah, yeah, I get it.
But even with the adding in those use cases,
it's gotta be less than 10%,
like where you have to have a manual.
Like there's a lot of situations
where you don't have to have one, but I get it.
I mean, I'm shopping autos because my significant other,
if we ever get in a situation where we need to swap cars,
I'm not, I don't have a car to teach around.
Eventually I'll probably teach her
in a probably an old Boxster or something
that we can just beat up and not worry about.
I mean, 993's not the way.
Dude, I wouldn't wish that either one of those clutches
on anybody that I care about.
Changing it up after figures eventually.
You're gonna change it to a different clutch.
Or you're gonna.
What's that?
The 993 clutch.
The terrible?
No, it's not terrible.
I'm just saying it's not beginner status.
And same thing in the GT3.
Those cars are not, those are heavy clutches
in both of those cars.
Kristen was asking me about that later.
She's like, oh, how is the clutch?
I'm like.
Yeah, rolling your leg workout,
especially if you don't know what you're doing.
She's like, oh, I drove,
because she drove the other 997.
I was like, it's like 100 times heavier than that.
Yeah.
So, if I bought, I thought about it.
It's like, if I got a turbo,
like those were hydraulic assisted clutches.
So she could probably do that and figure that out.
However, it's like anything, it's practice.
Like if she's not driving the car every day,
even if I teach her how to do it,
and we get in a situation where let's just say,
the Cayenne needs service and I'm taking it in
and she's gonna go to work.
Like do I want her to have a stressful day to go to work
and like freak out,
because now she has to drive the 911 turbo
because it has power and she's afraid of it.
And she is a novice at, she can get it down the street,
but it's not great for her.
That's not a good experience for anybody.
So I think the end goal is,
or go get like an old Civic,
just so we can just go beat it up.
And she can, the point is,
is that she needs regularity of driving it.
And even if I teach her,
if she doesn't drive it on a regular basis.
The situation is like being in a bad light,
being in a stop sign or somebody stopped in front of me
and I wasn't expecting it.
So like go get like a base boxer,
run it for a year almost like you did.
Go pay 10 grand for one,
park it outside and be like,
hey, you're driving this car every day for the next year,
so you can get comfortable.
And then once that happens, as we all know,
if once you do that for that long
and you've driven it that long,
you're dialed in after that.
Are you a pro?
No, but you can.
Because every car is a little never-ending.
Exactly, you're not gonna be in a situation
where you're now you're nervous anymore
because you're like, oh, I drove a manual for a year,
an entire year and it's fine.
Like I can do it at that point,
then I'll take, if I end up with an auto,
like we'll go and get rid of it
and then go get a stick or something like that.
But until like, so I think that's for my,
and I think I'm not probably alone in that situation.
There's probably a lot of people that have partners that.
They're just not a thing anymore.
Yeah, I mean, she's never had to do it.
She's never been in a cars.
So I don't want to have a car.
You mean she's a normal person?
Yeah.
That's the other thing,
like when you said like engine codes and normal people,
I'm like, I don't like,
I'm around a lot of normal people apparently
and I was, and just having that thought.
I'm like, that's crazy.
Yeah, I mean, she thinks they're cool.
She likes the way 911 looks, but outside of that,
like she could care less about the stuff we care about,
which is great.
Like you don't have to be with somebody.
Welcome to the new Porsche demographic.
Yeah.
Everybody else but us.
Yeah.
But I mean, honestly that,
the reason why I bring all that up is those are the,
she, those are the people they're selling new cars to,
like her.
Yeah.
Those, those are the,
so that's why those cars.
How much money do you get to spend
to convince a person like that?
Like somebody like her to get in that car,
you know, she's, she's with me.
So she understands it.
Cause I explain it to her with the race cars
and why everything's so rough.
It's the old concept of pay more to have less
with the GT three and all those other things.
Well, now we're in the age of pay more and I want more
instead of less.
So especially with the consumers that are here,
they're not, they don't want to hear that.
They're like, oh, and, and they develop a car
for those people that's called a GT three.
And, and those people gravitate towards those cars,
but everything else on their lineup is cushy.
For that reason,
because they want it to be able to be a hammer
if they want a turbo S when they want it to be a turbo S.
And they also want it to be able to be docile
and they want it to do all the things.
And they also want the status that a turbo S brings as well.
So, you know, gone are the days of where you get in a car
and it's just, or at least a Porsche I should say,
and it was just raw.
And it's kind of like, wow, it's kind of loud in here.
Even a bone stock one.
It's like, well, that's how it used to be.
Oh, it smelled like oil and gas in here.
It's like, yeah, that's how they smell.
And all of that has been basically crossbred
out of the breed.
Like all, like all of those nice creature,
like that made them unique.
They've basically have continued to breed
that out of the system.
Essentially, if you're like breeding animals,
this is all gone.
Yeah, like, oh, yeah, they used to have cool spots on them.
Yep, we bred that out of them.
That's gone.
It's like, okay, well, I kind of like that feature of them.
So all that stuff.
And my point of all this is they just kind of made,
it has a silhouette, has a shape,
but it is very distant relative of where it used to be.
So your point is, so they made it for everyone
so it's for no one?
Yeah, essentially.
I feel that way about like the newer ones.
Now there are their special models, yeah,
but I feel like you have to go into those special areas
within Porsche, meaning like the development of cars
that they have, and they have special cars
for people like us, but it didn't used to have to be that.
Like you could, enthusiasts used to be able to walk in there
and buy a base 911, and it wasn't that long ago.
You could go buy, you had one.
You had a base 997 manual car with none of the frills,
but it was a great car.
Yeah, it was fun.
It was a fun car.
You could go rip the mountains in it.
You could have fun in that car.
You could go to the grocery store in it.
It was a manual.
You could do everything in that car,
and it didn't cost the moon to buy even MSRP new,
and that, that.
No, it was, I think MSRP for that car was barely,
maybe 80.
Yeah, and that was all the money back then.
Yeah, 85, but yeah.
But that's my point is like,
you could walk in there and buy a car like that.
Yeah.
And it could do everything.
And now, to get it to even do half of what
that 997 could do, that base 997,
and feel the steering feel, the steering rack on that car,
the one the car is talking to you, the gearbox,
all that stuff, you gotta pay an S9 amount of money
to have something.
They try to even get close to that experience now.
I'm surprised they haven't done,
yeah, because they have the little Mandatino dials
for the three RS.
I'm surprised it hasn't worked its way down
to everything else, because it's all electronic.
Why not just be able to dial it in?
My thought was to, when you mentioned the Turbo S,
it's like, is the Turbo S the most exclusive thing
that Porsche makes?
I mean, as far as the limitability goes,
I think it is.
Well, I mean, it is at their hierarchy, right?
But why not make it unlimited?
You wanna make more money?
I don't think the Turbo S is limited.
I just don't think they sell that many.
That's because of the price tag.
Because people at that level
that are spending that kind of money are saying,
okay, I have $350,000.
Am I gonna spend 350 on this?
Or am I gonna go buy something else?
And when you're spending that kind of money,
a lot of doors open at 350.
And whether that's brand new or even slightly used.
So really at that point, minus like hypercar stuff,
you have a pretty unlimited, do you wanna go retro?
You could get something sick, retro.
You could, I mean, you'd have money,
you could buy a 993 Turbo and have money left over at 350.
And it's a cooler car, and it's a manual.
I'm still unsure they haven't got up.
I haven't looked in a while,
but I feel like you could get them for sub 300.
I feel like every day they have.
They might be up.
I haven't looked in a long time,
but there for, I would say 12 months ago,
you could get them sub 300.
And it's a better investment too, honestly.
But people don't think the way we think.
There are a lot of people think like, oh, I want new,
I want a warranty, I want this.
And it's just, there's no reason for it anymore.
Everybody has a cell phone.
Just take 20 minutes and do some reading.
Yes, the new stuff is reliable.
But that other stuff, just cause it's old and it's German,
like I feel like there's so many people
who don't know enough information
and how reliable all their vintage stuff is too.
And there's a reason they're still following on them.
Yeah.
It's a reason why 997 turbos cost $175,000 manual now.
Yeah.
I mean, there's some people dailying them still.
Yeah.
I mean, your friend, forget his name,
Tom. Tom with the 996 turbo still dailying his car,
bought it brand new, approaching 800,000 miles.
I mean, dude's a legend.
20 to a million, it's a move.
I mean, it's gonna happen, but I mean,
it's gonna be a while, it's gonna happen though.
But that's just, that proof is in the pudding right there.
But everybody thinks you gotta have new.
Everybody, oh, I want a new one, I want this, I want that.
I mean, at the end of the day, yes, it's cool,
but that cool factor has to wear off pretty fast
after you dump that 350 and say, okay, cool.
Like, now you've lived with it for 24 months.
Do you think it's still that fast?
They're like tied into depreciation and then it's like.
Yeah.
I mean, that's fine.
I mean, you gotta get a relationship.
You probably get to trade in.
I mean, even with that though,
I just don't understand where dabbling in more,
I just find it more interesting to dabble
in the stuff they've made before the current.
People don't know that.
That's the other thing too.
I think you're coming from it from again, an enthusiast.
And just like what we talked about
with the automatic and learning a manual,
there's so many people coming from an era
that they don't know about it.
They don't think to research it.
So they can't, they can't.
At a side, I don't know.
They just can't know unless they have friends
that are into it, they're just not,
they're never gonna, or a dealership that's like,
hey, here's some backstory.
Well, a lot of dealers.
And they're not gonna tell you that.
They're not gonna push old stuff at all.
You know, they'll, they're gonna sales menu.
They're gonna say, hey, well.
Another arm that Porsche should be doing.
Hey, well, you know,
there's gonna be reliability issues.
You know how expensive those motors are
when they need to get rebuilt.
I think guess you could do it
if they're a classic center certified.
They should be pushing that whole thing, but.
And that's when you hit them with, they're like,
oh, there's a guy out there with a 996.
Metzger, it's got 800,000 miles on it.
Never been worked on.
So it riddled me that genius.
And they're like, yeah, well, he's a one off.
He's an outlier.
All those motors need to be rebuilt at 100,000 miles.
I'm like, okay.
Man, they open it up at 300 or 500 and they're like,
oh, that's good.
Just put it back.
Yeah, I guess, you know,
sometimes you get crippled by knowledge.
And sometimes I feel like we know a little too much.
And I don't mean that in an arrogant way.
I mean, like where our decision making can be skewed
because you know, you have too much to make.
So you can be crippled.
You can be paralyzed to make a decision
because you have too much knowledge.
Too much of an enthusiast or nerd in the hobby.
And it's like.
Yeah, because you start putting,
like say you're a mathematician
and you're putting an equation on the board,
like people that are listening to the show
that have brains like ours where they're sitting there
like, okay, I want a classic line.
So, okay, that's part of the equation.
Next part of the equation is,
oh, I'm hunting a specific motor.
I'm not gonna name names like off motors,
but like obviously like once, okay?
So then you put that in there, okay?
Well, I'd like it to not lose money.
Okay, there's another thing
that you just put in the equation.
And I kind of want to know,
I kind of want a car that if I bought it,
I would keep it forever.
Okay, there's another part of the equation.
So now you have this monster equation that you're building.
And now on the other side of the equation,
you have your handful of cars that fit that.
And now you look at those cars and you go,
okay, on this amount of cars that fit this criteria,
where's my budget at?
And so that's another factor that you've added in.
So like you can really get in the weeds with it.
And that's what I mean by,
you can be paralyzed with information sometimes.
Sometimes it's better just to not know.
You're like, oh, cool.
I bought a 2007 Carrera S and you know,
after you get it, they're like,
you know that thing's got bore scoring issues and shit?
Like then you're like, what the fuck?
Like, you know what I mean?
Like I need to get rid of this car.
Like, people like us, you're like,
oh, I'm staying away from that car.
Like where was it?
Where was it at?
Oh, it was in New Hampshire.
I was like, get it out of here.
Like, not interested, you know.
He'll be Tom Cruise.
Yeah.
But I think it's, but on the flip side of that,
knowledge is power too.
So you can have all that knowledge
and then you can make a concise decision
and make a business decision for yourself.
Have a great car, have good reliability
and have an upswing, even if it's two or 3% increase
on appreciation instead of depreciation.
And I feel like a lot of people who listen to this show
have that mindset.
So when you're building your equation,
I have to know because the way your brain built it out,
are you budget before or are you budget after?
Well, I have a ballpark.
So I already get to start with like what I,
yeah, I kind of already know where I'm at, I guess.
I didn't know if you just like, I want these things
and then I figure the budget out.
Yeah, and then you can ask me in 24 hours
and what changes the entire equation.
They're not all pieces change,
but one small piece will change saying,
I'd like to have something a little bit more modern.
So then you take something out and put something else in
and that whole equation and everything that comes out
as an equal on the other side of that equation
looks totally different.
I didn't know if you just went in with it,
like having the full sample size of what you're looking at
or you already like down sampled it because of the budget.
Yeah, I mean, I've filtered down.
I think that's a normal thing that everybody does,
at least it has like a kind of a mechanical style brain
or business brain where they start to filter out
because if you don't, then you're literally just grabbing
at anything that shows up.
That's good.
Yeah, because technically everything is good,
but you've got to, what's good for you?
Like, I mean, you know this and people that are close to me,
we get this question all the time
or I get DM this all the time or if we're in person,
it's like, hey man, what do you think about this car?
My first question to them and I know people probably hate it
or maybe they don't hate it,
but I go, what's your use with the car?
What are you gonna do with it?
And that, a lot of times, believe it or not,
sounds like a very simple question,
but it's a very difficult answer for a lot of folks
because a lot of times people are buying a car
and it's not just for fun.
That's a Swiss Army Knife answer is what it is.
Yeah.
They're gonna have to use the fork,
they need the serrated blade.
Well, yeah, the spork.
I need a spoon and a fork.
I got a tool for you, it's called a spork.
But yeah, in all seriousness, it really boils down to that
and it starts with you, honestly, at the end of the day
and when I say you, I'm saying me,
being honest with yourself.
What is your use for the car?
Is it truly daily use
and to have something pretty to look at
and be in a place that's happy
and are you gonna ever mountain the car?
Are you ever gonna road race the car?
If those are no's, then that changes
that entire equation again, where you're like,
okay, well, I didn't consider it automatic before,
now I'm considering it automatic
because I needed to be daily use, I needed to do this,
but I wanted to be fun
and I wanted to still get my blood pressure up.
I don't, because if I didn't want that,
I would just buy a Lexus LS430
and just drive a couch around all day long
and never have to repair anything
and literally save a ton of money.
We've had, you and I have had this conversation offline,
it's like, why are we car people?
I wish I wasn't, because I would go buy a 2007 LS430
and drive it till the wheels fell off
and probably save $10 million in the bank.
But we're not wired that way, unfortunately.
I mean, if we could go in and get a lobotomy
and get rewired and come out still being the same person,
but just not into cars, maybe I would be interested in that.
I don't know.
So, bro, sick patient here.
Yours is sick too, bro.
Dude, 500,000 miles, I haven't even changed the oil once.
I'm just gonna let it sludge up and see what happens.
It's just gonna keep working.
Lexus, absolutely you can do that.
But anyways, yeah, I, it just,
but my, I know we always spiral all like crazy,
but like it always happens, it's fun conversation,
but it's, it really is,
and I think it really starts with,
I asked that question like when I was buying a GT3,
it was a purpose, it was, there was a purpose of it.
It wasn't I was buying it only because I always wanted one.
Yes, I did want one,
but I did want to participate on the track in it.
I wanted to drive it in the mountains.
I wanted to do those things with it.
I didn't want to just have it to say, I have this,
because that, that for me, I don't know.
I mean, I don't want to just own something.
I'm just not built that way.
And I know there's people that are,
and I'm not hating on them.
And if your purpose is your answer is like,
what are you buying it for?
It's like, oh, I just want it to have it.
Okay, then you can buy whatever you want.
Literally anything.
Because you don't have,
you don't have to use it as a tool then.
But if you really, that's a very broad answer,
but if you actually break down your answer of,
why want it to have,
but like, dude, there's more to it than that.
What is it?
You're like, okay, well, I want it
because I think they look cool.
Okay, now we're talking.
What do you, what do you think's cool about them?
Oh, well, I like, I like the ones with the wings.
Okay, now we're starting to get somewhere.
You know, so you've got to break,
like I think a lot of people just don't,
they just look at cars sometimes and they're just like,
whoa, whatever.
Like these days you have to specify like,
already have wings or the cars that people leaving,
this part is up, which well.
Yeah, douchebag central, right?
I'm gonna leave my butt tail up
just so everybody knows that this thing
that I can press a button to leave the wing up.
It's like, what are you doing, man?
Like, let the car do its own thing.
Like that's for downforce.
That's not for a flex.
There's nothing pretty underneath that wing.
It's the active arrow in a non-active situation.
Exactly.
It's like, I want to activate my arrow
to let everybody know that this does
actually have a spoiler on the rear of it.
It's like, who's going to be impressed by that?
Like, you know, it's probably chicks over there
just leaving their numbers on windshields
because they're like, this thing is so sick.
Look, the butt comes up on it
and it's just sticking in the air
because they don't even know it's called a spoiler.
They'll just say, hey, yeah, okay.
I'm gonna leave my number for this guy.
He's probably hot.
Nope, that don't happen.
If anything, you got a bunch of freaking dongs hanging out.
Like, hey, what's up, man?
What's your spec?
Spoiler's up.
But who knows?
We are in a modern situation.
That could be their fancy.
So who knows?
Now, there's anything wrong with that.
No, I'm not hating, yeah.
So I mean, if that is your fancy,
then you're probably cleaning up, honestly.
Congratulations.
Yeah, so you're probably slaying.
All right, a couple of quick things before we take off.
So and who doesn't care news?
Porsche 2027 Taycan is gonna be
having fake gear shift as an option.
Pay 1,000 bucks and you get to paddle shift your Taycan
into a different gear.
Which means that was a good idea
because we talked about the electric shifter
or the PDK one, so that makes sense.
So I wouldn't put a, that made me think
it did somebody misread the whole shifting thing
into thinking it's gonna be like a manual replacement.
It's not.
It's just this.
Yeah, probably.
But yeah, it's in the who cares, who cares column.
Paddle shift's not terrible, I guess.
Yeah, it's just a program.
Just, it's a video game.
So for the 100 people that are gonna order one
of these things in 2027,
you have the option to do paddle shift.
Have fun with that.
Have fun with your appliance.
Next one.
So Porsche is moving the production of the Cayenne
to Lipsec from Slovakia.
Yeah, so that, interesting.
Another who cares.
Does that make it cheaper for them?
Since it's in country?
It could be.
I think it's more of the,
what was the terminology people used during COVID,
the logistical, there was something,
some term that everybody was using.
Yeah, supply chain issues.
Supply chain issues.
I'm gonna bring back that buzzword.
They don't want pay production,
rent on whatever building that is,
wherever it's at.
Of course, but again,
it probably really is supply chain issues
and it's probably quality control, probably.
Not that it's hard for quality control out there.
It's just probably something closer for them to manage.
And that would explain the lessening of production too.
Cause they're really,
because I'm sure there's a bigger story to this.
There's probably more production out there
that's not being used and starting to get drawn back.
Oh, I'm sure.
I'm sure.
They're consolidating.
To the mothership.
But again, I put this in the who cares category.
Just throwing it out there.
So you guys can fill your head with stuff
if somebody tries to say some crap.
All right, let's go ahead and close with this.
Now, there's been some rallies over the summer.
We already know that,
but the premier rallies are happening in the fall.
The ones that was happening in the fall.
Multiple is like air-cooled.
There's some classic rallies out there.
We have a mixed event, water-cooled, air-cooled.
You can bring whatever.
Bringing that up because get on the waiting list now,
because right about now,
cause we're approaching July,
July, August timeframe is,
if we do have cancellations,
this is pretty much when it kind of starts to happen.
So if you're not on the list already
for our fair and event in October,
you should at least get on the waiting list.
It doesn't cost you anything.
Just get your name on there if you're interested in going
because once we start having a few cancellations,
we just literally go down the list.
And if you don't answer,
you pretty much get a 24-hour window, sometimes less.
Don't be a point of no return.
I think it's gonna be, it has to be August
because I gotta get stuff ordered for everybody.
So that's the bigger thing.
You heard it from him.
So basically, if you're not on the list,
and we haven't stamped our final list by then
and you're not on it, and you'll know.
So there's a few folks already on the waiting list.
I know there's a couple of people
that have put deposits down that were kind of maybes.
So we're gonna be following up with those folks
to kind of collect the remainder of that very, very soon.
And if they're out, you'll be getting a call
if you're on that waiting list.
So that's why I kind of bring that up.
And I know it's a very busy every year.
It's Dead Horse, but October timeframe for everything,
not just Porsche, especially if you do multiple stuff.
But just speaking specifically for Porsche,
we've got air-cooled rallies, we've got Lufteco,
we've got our rally, there's always stuff going on,
additional stuff that hasn't even popped up yet
that'll be popping up.
So just gear up, get your stuff ready, get your cars in,
get them fixed, get them ready to go.
Because let's be honest,
you're probably not beating on them over the summer.
So if you get them prepped and ready to go now,
they'll be ready come October, September timeframe,
whatever you decide you're going to end up doing.
And also help your independence out.
Get them in early, don't be that guy, it's last minute,
trying to get the car in there.
He's like, I gotta leave town next week.
So I'm doing.
Yeah, you know, sometimes that works out, right?
But I don't have anything else for him, do you?
I guess there won't be a cheaper car to buy,
so I guess buy them now.
Buy what you can.
Yep, see ya.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode
of Peacart Talk.
Connect with us on Instagram at PeacartTalk
or online at peacarttalk.com.
About this episode
Porsche enthusiasts have plenty to celebrate after a stellar racing weekend, including a GT3R victory at Spa and a podium finish for the 963 at Watkins Glen. Hosts Mike and Aaron dive into the surprising confirmation that the 963 prototype will return to IMSA for another season, defying previous rumors of its retirement. They break down the implications of the 2025 versus 2026 car specs, analyze the shifting driver lineups as younger talent steps up, and look ahead to a highly competitive hypercar grid featuring incoming rivals like Genesis.
Original notes
Thank Our People
Big shoutout to the crews putting in work this weekend. IMSA customer racing had JDC Miller taking 3rd overall, with GTD going to Manthey in 1st, Phorm and Wright's Motorsport rounding out 2nd. And over in Europe, the 24 Hours of Spa customer racing saw Lionspeed take the win in the GT3 R. Solid weekend across the board for the customer teams, and it's always worth pointing out how deep the talent pool is right now.
The 963 Is Coming Back
So we were wrong, and honestly we're happy about it. The 963 is confirmed for next year, which means Porsche is about to spend millions of dollars just to prove us wrong for talking trash. We'll take it. Still no Le Mans on the schedule though, which has us wondering out loud if the factory team is a little salty at the FIA and just decided to focus everything on IMSA instead. Pure speculation, but it's not a crazy theory given how things have played out.
GT4 Goes 911
The new series taking over for GT4 is running a 911 instead of a 718 Cayman, and honestly the reasoning writes itself. The obvious one: the 718 Cayman isn't in production anymore, so you can't exactly build a race series around a car that doesn't exist. The less obvious one: it's another built-in opportunity for Porsche to sell more race-spec 911s. Curious what you all think about losing the Cayman as the entry point car for this class.
Fake Paddle Shifters on the Taycan
In "who asked for this" news, the 2027 Taycan is getting fake gear shifts, simulated paddle shifting, as a $1,000 option. We're not going to pretend we have a strong take here beyond mild bewilderment. It's a sign of where EV performance cars are headed as manufacturers try to recreate some of the physical feedback people miss from ICE cars.
Leipzig Takes Over From Slovakia
Also filed under "who cares but let's talk about it anyway," Porsche is shifting production back to Leipzig from Slovakia. Got us wondering if Porsche will ever actually build cars stateside. Our gut says probably not anytime soon, given how tied their manufacturing identity is to Germany, but we'll argue both sides of that one on the show.
Get On the Fahren Waiting List
If you haven't put your name down for Fahren yet, now's the time. Rally season creeps up fast and car prep should already be in progress if it isn't. Some of the summer rallies have already come and gone, but the big fall events are right around the corner. Our lineup is a mix of air-cooled and water-cooled cars, so there's room for both camps. Don't sleep on this one, you'll miss your shot to drive with a group of genuinely like-minded people.
That's the show for this week. Head to pcartalk.com for event info, and if you want to support what we're doing, hit up Patreon.com/pcartalk. Find us at @pcartalk.
Kimchi Crew: Steve, Leslie, Chris, Ken, Aaron, Matthew, Sean, and Nik.
P-Car Talk Podcast
Pcar Talk
0:00
69:33