The BEST New Minivans on the Market Today #63

Welcome everybody to the driveway podcast. I'm not the host. He's right there.

I like it. It took us what? 63 episodes to get you intro'ing it. That's fantastic. I love it.

Welcome to the episode. We're in it. We're talking mini-vans today, which I'm excited about.

We know. We've chatted about mini-vans here and there.

Well-established.

Well-established lovers. Well, maybe we'll get into that. We all have kids.

Dave is noticeably absent from this episode.

Dave appreciates and respects a minivan, but I don't think he would ever buy one.

Not to put words in his mouth, but yes, we all have children, right?

We are the target demographic for the minivan, the capable, the lovely minivan.

None of us have owned a minivan, but we've grown up with them, right?

I know Matt, you had quite a few minivans in your childhood.

I had a minivan childhood. This was kind of the first time I realized that my folks were doing okay.

Oh.

I mean, they were like, we're upper class. We lived in the middle of nowhere in upstate New York.

I think the cost of living is quite low, but it felt like every few years my mom was in a different Dodge Grand Carat van.

And then she did get a Chrysler town and country that stuck around for quite a bit longer.

I think that one might have been more expensive, but yeah, I mean, it was, we had the red one with the fake wood.

We had the white one with the fake wood. We had the white one without the fake wood.

We had the green one that had the nice leather seats, the Chrysler that stuck around.

And my earliest memories are in the minivan.

I remember, you know, my mom pulling that car over the side of the road to yell at me through the sliding door as a child.

Minivans were a critical part of my automotive upbringing.

Yeah.

I, my family didn't have a minivan, but my aunt did and we were with them all the time.

It was a purple Dodge Caravan, I believe.

And I remember this isn't the minivan, but we had a, there was a car phone.

You guys remember car phones before cell phones.

It was this big leather bag.

They were doing okay.

I also, I didn't live quite in the middle of nowhere like you did, but I lived in pretty rural.

I mean middle of nowhere.

I was halfway between Manhattan and Cleveland.

Middle of somewheres, just not somewhere itself.

Natalie, do you have a childhood about memory or about minivans?

Yeah. You know, at first I shook my head cause my parents never had one, but my grandparents did.

They bought it to go to Florida.

They would go and like spend at least a few months there.

So they brought a lot of stuff with them to open up their condo and stay for a bit and then go and their cat.

The cat would like just wander around in the Honda Odyssey.

First it was a Ford Windstar and then a nice big flat floor.

Yeah. So I spent a decent amount of time writing in that when we would stay with them for the weekend.

If my parents were, you know, doing something.

So we all have a little bit of a history.

Oh yeah.

I have a memory of, so the third row.

Nobody wants to sit in the third row.

You have one brother. Do you have another sibling?

I have one brother.

One brother.

One sister.

One brother and one sister.

I'm youngest.

I think he's better than us now.

No, it meant I'm the only one who probably spent a lot of time in the way back.

And I remember thinking, oh, this is the worst.

The youngest kid doesn't want to sit in the way back.

And then we had family friends that we would see like we would go on vacation in Canada every year.

And there was always the same family up there.

And their daughter, who was the older child, chose to sit in the way back because she would like.

Get away from everyone.

Yeah.

She would like spread out and it was like her space.

And then suddenly my older brother decided he wanted to sit in the way back.

And I was like, we're moving up.

Oh, that's awesome.

Yeah.

I thought you were going to say, and then I wanted to keep it and it became like head butting.

No.

As the youngest child, you don't get to keep anything.

Well, that's not true.

You get to keep the things that your older siblings like lose interest in.

And then they become yours.

Yeah, surely all the hand made out.

I'll talk about this later at the end, but I have a Land Rover Defender now, the three row version.

And Matteo's in the third row.

So you're doing quite well.

Yeah.

It's mine.

I spent, I spent the many, many hundreds.

Oh, you mean Land Rover?

Load you on.

Yeah.

But Matteo's sitting in the back and he's, he's having a good time in that third row.

He loves it.

Okay.

So we're talking about minivans.

We're talking about the, the why they're great.

Why they work for so many people.

But before we get into the, to the minivan talk where there's four big minivans on the market, right?

There's not too many.

There's the Sienna, the Odyssey, the Pacifica and the Carnival.

There's the, those are the big four.

However, there's another one, the Volkswagen ID buzz.

Do we, do we consider this a minivan?

I think it is.

I think what else would it be?

That's true.

It's definitely a van or a bus or a mini bus.

So I, I've been in an ID buzz, Matt, you've driven an ID buzz.

I know, I know you didn't adore your time.

I adore the vehicle.

I adore its style and, and like the, the big swing.

I just don't adore the driving experience.

I don't think it's a particularly good driving vehicle.

And it, I mean, it disappeared for 2026.

It only was entirely because it was too expensive on sale for one year,

skip 2026.

And so the price was high.

The range was low.

Yeah.

However, they always said we're coming back in 2027 and they've confirmed it's coming back for 2027.

They are so back.

The, the interesting thing about it though, the range is not changing.

It is the same EV or electric architecture.

Fool me once.

So the range isn't changing and the price has not been announced.

So the two biggest things that we just identified as maybe the issues,

one of them is not being addressed and the other one, who knows?

Well, it's sure to be a hit now.

I actually, I kind of felt like everyone who, who had the means and was interested in buying one was going to buy one immediately.

But, but the question of like the longevity of the demand was always a big question for me because it's so different.

It's such a unique vehicle that it seemed like if you wanted one, you were going to buy one.

And if you didn't want one, you probably weren't ever going to want one.

I'm trying to see if I, yes.

Okay. So they sold fewer than 10,000.

Yeah. Just over 6,000 in 2025.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's not a lot of cars.

There's not a lot on the road, but when you do see one, it always sticks out.

You're like, Hey, there's one of those. It's cool.

Big notable things for 2027.

The entry level trim now has an available all the drive.

So that's a new thing.

And they're also bringing a, a camping focused trim,

which is called the tour, I believe I need to get to my second page.

But yeah, they're bringing a new trim focused on camping, which kind of,

I feel like that's part of the, the mini bus ethos is trying to, trying to tap into that market.

And they're also now going to have the NACS port.

So that is, that is a big thing.

All will drive on the, on the base trim, all trim standard with ACS.

You only go 230 miles.

You want to have that access to as many chargers as possible.

So the NACS port allows you to use the Tesla chargers, which are much more prevalent.

Yes. So we'll see, we'll see how the ID buzz does.

I love the idea that they're leaning into like the, the sleeping in your van.

Yeah.

You know, 1960s VW micro bus, you know, you can tour around with goose or whatever.

Whatever, whatever the new grateful dead band is.

So you see those like Westphalia ones, right?

With the big like tent on top.

We have a family friend who had one of those drove it up from Florida every year.

Hey, that's the move.

If you're going to be driving up from Florida.

That is the move.

So I forgive me.

I'm just going to, I'm going to read from the article.

The tour for motion includes a mattress that lays across the backs of the folded second and third receipts.

It also gets window blinds, ventilation panels, a retractable tow hitch,

second row captain's chairs and electro chromatic roof.

I love.

Yeah.

I love one of those roofs and a card to hang on the door that says if this.

I love that.

That sounds really cool.

Actually the mattress included like mattresses aren't cheap.

It's cool.

There's a value add.

I'm hyper curious as to what the price will be.

Because it seems like everybody thought it was replaced by mattress.

I'll just.

Two birds, one stone.

That's efficiency.

So first deliveries expected soon in August of 26.

So that's, that's coming up.

That's really soon.

I mean, they're going to have to tell people what they're charging for that first or no one's.

Or they're delivering it too.

That's true.

By the time, by the time you're listening, there might be pricing.

And if there is, I'll pop it up on the screen.

I mean, if anyone listening has ever dealt with international automaker press offices,

they know that things like price or feature availability, they tell you and then they,

and then they don't tell you and then they tell you and then they say, well,

actually we might change that.

So I imagine we will know the price right before it goes on sale.

So that, that is a minivan that we're not.

That's, that's probably the end of what we're going to say about the ID buzz.

Cause we're talking about those main for traditional minivan.

The ones that people buy.

The ones that are purchased.

More than 6,000 of them.

Why, why does somebody buy a minivan?

Matt, why, why would somebody buy a minivan over something else?

Because when your kid is just annoying the hell out of you and you need to yell at him,

you've got a whole sliding door to get it.

That's sliding door.

That's sliding door is huge.

I mean, the sliding door does feel like the big differentiator today because

three row crossovers have more space than ever.

They're more capable than ever, but they, all of them still have doors that open,

open wide and in a tight parking lot, every mom and dad I know says, oh my God,

a sliding door makes it so easy to get my kids in and out of the car.

And, but they also just, I mean, they have massive amounts of space.

They drive surprisingly well.

Particularly like with regards to, you know, like the body dynamics and the amount of

rolling them, like they drive more like a car than an SUV.

And they're certainly, well, I was going to say they're cheaper than SUVs,

although some minivan prices have gotten really frighteningly expensive.

It's no longer really a budget option.

Well, I feel like they have budget options, but they also have very expensive options.

Yes, for sure.

But yeah, I mean, it's just, it is, it's the purest vision of practicality over everything else.

It's strange to me that they seem pretty popular.

Like we did some recent content on a couple of minivans and they all did really well.

A lot of engagement in the comments, a lot of views, but the market has contracted to have

four big players, five and six, depending how you count them.

But really four big players.

There's a lot of automakers that don't offer one.

And Natalie, you just did our full length Sienna review, which was fantastic.

Because of the Sienna.

Everything, everything involved.

The star of the show.

With your, I don't know if you considered minivans before, if that was a realistic thought

for you in the past, but did your week testing and driving the Sienna, did it change your opinion?

Yeah, it was, it was very convenient.

I mean, really the ideal form factor for even, I hate to say, even one kid.

It just, I mean, partly it's the sliding doors.

Like even on daycare drop off day when it's trash day and they're, they've left the bins out.

And I'm just like, come on, this is the loading zone and I'm trying to get my kid out.

I mean, that's, that's a big one.

So yeah, it was, the space was great.

I would love it for things like driving to Florida for sure.

I don't know if I, it's awfully big for me to want to drive around town, but.

But not bigger than like, I mean, it's way smaller than like a Tahoe.

And it's no bigger than a Grand Highlander.

Right.

So you just like, you don't want an SUV at all.

Right.

You are, you're our sedan guru.

But if you're in the market for a three row crossover, the only reason not to look at a minivan is because you don't want a minivan.

Yeah.

It's a style.

Yeah.

It's the style that gets in the way because if any other metric, except for maybe speed and power.

Or like all wheel drive availability, hybrid powertrains, there's a lot more variety because there just are so many more crossovers.

Yeah.

That's a good point actually.

Like if, if you don't like one of the four, you're out of luck.

And if you need all wheel drive and don't like one of the two, you're out of luck.

And if you want to hybrid and don't like one of the two, you're out of luck again.

Whereas like in the crossover space, if you're like, if I need a hybrid, I hope I like one out of the nine.

There's just a lot more choice.

Yeah.

So I've said before, I've said it publicly.

I've said it privately.

My next car will be a minivan.

So I've, I've, I've made the jump.

So I'm already a little biased.

Yours will be a minivan.

Yours will be a sedan.

What's yours going to be a pickup truck?

Who knows?

I'm not, I'm not buying a new car anytime soon.

Maybe, I don't know.

Maybe it will.

That's given a some mystery.

I don't know.

So let's dive into the actual Vans.

Yeah.

Where do you want to start?

I want to start with the Chrysler.

Okay.

I think the Chrysler gets overlooked.

Yeah.

Because it basically gave birth to the minivan segment.

Oh yeah.

I mean, it is number one.

We talked about in our happy birthday America episode that

Chrysler birthed the, the minivan and rain supreme for a long time.

Yeah.

But today I feel like the Pacifica, it's, I've said before anytime I

rent a minivan, it's always a Chrysler.

Like it is the rental fleet minivan.

So I have a lot of experience with them and they drive really,

really well.

I think.

But what do we think about, about Chrysler?

It doesn't seem like it's on the top of a lot of buyers lists.

Well, they should do a good job with the Chrysler Pacifica because

they don't sell any other cars.

I, I still really like how it looks.

I think if you're concerned about the style of the minivan first

off, I got bad news for you.

You're focused on the wrong thing.

But the Pacifica, particularly the way it looks pre this current

2027 facelift.

I think it is still like a pretty stylish minivan.

Agreed.

It gets dinged a little bit because of its prevalence in press

fleet or in a rental fleet.

So you do kind of also associate it with a rental car.

Yeah.

But I mean, particularly like the pinnacle trim is really nice inside,

has the throw pillows for the back seat, like quilted leather

pillows.

Like a Mercedes and yeah, I just, I mean, it has a,

at least the, the all gas one has it tested and reliable.

If not super exciting.

Right.

V six engine.

They're Pennestar V six.

Two 87 horsepower, two 62 pound feet of torque.

Yeah.

Which is honestly, which is very competitive with everything else

in the, in the class.

And I, I think, I think Dave said this on a recent episode,

like sometimes Chrysler gets a little bit of a question mark

and reliability, but that engine, there's millions of them.

Yes.

The engine there are millions of, I think it's fair to question

sure Chrysler reliability and other aspects.

Um, but the, the end, I mean, they've been using that thing for

so long.

Like tried and true.

What'd you say?

Certainly tried.

Very nice.

So you mentioned kind of, uh, you started to talk about the,

the plug in hybrid nature of it, which is not coming back.

That's been, that's been finished.

I think very early 26 is like, like some of them were made as,

but then they were stopped.

So you can, you can technically find 2026 plug in hybrids,

but there's, there's very few of them.

Yeah.

And the 27 won't have it.

Is cutting that technology pretty much across the board.

Like a lot of the Jeeps are losing the four by ease.

I'm not terribly surprised to see that go away,

but it is kind of a bummer because it was the only,

well, until Kia came around with the car and I guess we'll get to that.

But for a while, it was the only hybrid that wasn't the, the Sienna.

Um, it was also very expensive though.

Yeah.

So the 20 on the most expensive trim.

Well, even, even so prices for these, you said there are some budget options,

but the prices are high.

So the 2026 base MSRP for the, for the Pacifica, uh,

not including destination, it's 44, 445.

So let's call it 45,000.

That's for the base.

So the Pacific or Chrysler had the, or has the Voyager,

which is kind of the stripped down, um, base model version,

but it's like the true rental fleet.

I don't know if we could buy one.

Could we?

Is it available for people?

I don't know.

You can buy one used.

It's on the builder.

Right.

It does.

It's on the builder.

But the interesting thing for 2027,

the base price for the Pacifica is 41, 495.

So they're adding either they're dropping prices or they're adding a new

lower trim.

So I wonder if the Voyager is going to continue now that this

entry level Pacifica might be available because the current MSRP

for the 26 Voyager is 41, 395, which is almost,

it's $100 less than the 2027 Pacifica.

So it almost feels like, I don't know this,

the Voyager is getting thrown away and there's now a,

a more entry level Pacifica.

Do we know, I should know this,

whether the stow and go seating is standard because that's a really cool thing

about the Pacifica.

Is the best thing about the Pacifica.

And it is not available on the hybrid because of the back.

Oh, right.

So, but any 2027 and beyond, you're going to have stow and go.

Yeah.

Without that plug in hybrid.

What's amazing is that nobody else has done the stow and go.

Other variations of like seating conveniences and stuff,

like the removable,

the quick fold and into the floor unmatched,

unmatched,

it's unrivaled.

It is,

it is the best thing about the Chrysler Pacifica.

So it's the best looking and it has that extremely handy convenience

feature with the seats.

Yes.

Yeah.

So those are two really,

I could be swayed on best looking,

but it has the best convenience feature.

What do you think about the 27?

I'm not as crazy about it.

It might,

it might grow on me.

Yeah.

I think things do.

I've seen it in person once in my peripheral as it went by.

So I got a glance of the silhouette really,

or of the, of the profile.

Well, the profile has the exact same or so.

So it's only the front end, which is Dave.

Dave described it looks like a Kia,

but not a good Kia.

Excuse me.

Yeah.

It does,

it does have a more of a Kia cause it feels more jagged and angular.

The lighting signature.

I don't know.

The thing is though, like I didn't,

I'm not like protective of,

it's not like when they did the Subaru Outback redesign,

I was like, what did you do to my boy?

I feel very protective about that.

But the, it's not,

it's not an improvement.

Right.

So.

It's just like digitized or something.

Yeah.

They just tried to make it modern,

but yeah.

I agree.

It didn't need the change.

I almost like, like lean in guys.

It's minivan.

Yeah.

You know,

I feel like let it be what it is.

Let it be what it is.

So the Kia Carnival is interesting.

And maybe let's, let's move to the,

let's move to the Carnival now.

He needs to do things in alphabetical order.

Not us.

The Carnival,

Kia doesn't want to call them any man.

They call it an MPV,

a multi-purpose vehicle has the most SUV like styling.

And I'm going to have a hot take.

I don't like the way it looks.

I think if it's the most SUV like styling,

you could just as easily say,

this is the ugliest SUV.

I think it looks confused.

It's trying to look like an SUV.

And I think it does a kind of a rough job of it.

And it doesn't look right as a minivan.

I think it's trying to be something it isn't.

And I think it looks confused.

I don't love the way it looks.

I think that's fair.

Yeah.

Which is weird because I do feel like it's,

it's not far off, particularly in profile.

Like if they,

if like the wind shield was a little steeper

and the hood was a little longer,

it would look fine.

But it's,

it's just,

it's like a little uncanny valley.

Yes.

And it's like an SUV that was rendered in not enough pixels.

Yeah.

Or someone like a police sketch,

someone was describing features

and they just wound up with something.

Yeah.

That's pretty funny.

I like that.

So the carnival,

as far as I,

I think it's true.

It's the,

it's the lowest entry level price for a,

for a minivan today.

Okay.

And that is one of its,

one of its feathers in its cap.

The,

the gas only version starts at 37, 390.

If you had asked me to guess,

I would have said the Pacifica would be the lowest entry level.

I mean Pacifica to the 26, 44.

27, 41.

Chrysler.

But the winged badge.

That's how you know.

Well, they got rid of that.

Can you find the carnival as a base trim at 37, 390?

I don't know.

It's probably tough,

but it's available under 40.

And then one of the big things about the carnival

that is another huge thing,

it does offer a hybrid.

And that one starts at 41, 390.

And you still can't get the hybrid and all wheel drive.

There is no all wheel drive at all on the carnival.

Oh.

Carnival.

There we go.

Model wide front wheel drive only.

Yeah.

So it's one of those.

I did not know that.

If you need it, if you need all wheel drive

and you want a hybrid,

there is a single option,

which we will get to.

Did you know you could get the Kia Carnival

with 11 seats?

Tell me.

11 seats?

Not in the United States.

But yeah, the Korean market,

they sell the carnival with four rows.

Is it like an extended wheel base?

Or are they just really skinny rows?

I haven't seen one in person,

but I know you can get with four rows.

And I'm curious, Elliot,

does four rows do anything for you?

No.

Three rows maximum.

Who needs it?

Well, I was actually,

I was on a trip recently with another fellow

on another journalist.

It was a media program who has six children.

He has a Honda Odyssey.

Wow.

And when he goes out,

every seat is full.

Yeah.

Wow.

Six kids is a choice.

Yeah.

Because then after six,

you need a,

if you can't find a four row carnival,

you need like a 15 person bus.

Yeah.

I actually, we had friends growing up

in the middle of nowhere who had

like a 15 passenger van.

Yeah.

That's their family car.

I think they had six children.

The virkuses.

I don't want to yuck anybody's yum.

I don't want to question anybody's choices.

Six is a lot of kids.

I have two.

Two's enough.

Three's okay.

Well, you know,

the bigger the better, right?

More the merrier.

And when there are enough kids,

then the older ones are old enough

to help with the younger ones.

Absolutely.

That's what I say.

This was actually a topic of conversation

with my traveling companion there.

The eldest, I think he said was 12.

Oh, at that point is basically an adult.

Yeah.

That's almost a teenager.

You can change a diaper.

We have a two year old and a 12 year old.

The 12 year old is basically like an employee.

I mean, if you have to take another car,

they can drive it, right?

JK.

So did you guys have like a favorite piece

to the carnival?

Favorite feature?

Yeah, I like,

I mean, this is a Kia thing.

I like the thing with the USB-C

where it can be toggled

between like data charging or data or charging.

I think that's really cool,

but that's not unique to the carnival.

That's modern Kia.

The things I like most about the carnival,

it's the lowest entry level price.

That's a good one.

And it has the most modern feel.

Superlatives here.

Yeah.

The Hyundai tech stack is just really good.

So if you've been in a Hyundai,

you know what it's like.

It's really solid.

And it gives you that at the lowest,

at least entry level MSRP price.

And it has the best warranty.

Oh yeah.

That's a good one.

It's a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty from Hyundai.

It offers,

it gives you a good range of choices.

Ice only, internal combustion only or hybrid.

Hybrid gets up to 32 miles per gallon,

which is pretty good.

It's a turbo hybrid.

The ice is a V6, right?

I think it's a V6.

It is.

It's a three and a half liter V6.

It's just kind of cool.

Yeah.

And then the hybrid, I'm not sure,

but I know it's a turbo hybrid.

I think it might be a turbo four hybrid.

Sounds right.

Yeah.

With regards to the interior,

they do have those VIP lounge seats.

I wondered.

We had one on like as a press loan.

Yeah.

And we just like spend some time out there.

I need a break.

We opened both doors.

It was like a beautiful late summer evening.

Yeah.

We opened both doors.

We reclined the seats.

We had a glass of wine.

The car was parked.

Not sure if that's legal.

It wasn't on.

But we're just enjoying the evening

in our luxurious minivan.

I also, to the point of the USB,

they have them in the seat back.

Yes.

Oh yeah.

The second row can easily access them.

I always liked that.

Again, not like a Carnival specific Kia,

Hyundai Genesis.

They all do that.

But I always thought that was nice.

But Kia and Genesis don't make a minivan.

Hyundai and Genesis don't make a minivan.

Kia.

Sorry.

Yes.

Hyundai doesn't.

I think the biggest demerit for the Carnival

that keeps it from being a contender for me

is the no hybrid or the no all wheel drive

availability.

And the hybrid is nice on paper.

It doesn't drive very well.

Tell me about that.

The like handoff is really clunky.

It doesn't, it does not feel nearly as smooth

and as well sorted as the Toyota Sienna's hybrid.

Okay.

So when you say handoff for the listeners,

you mean like when it switches from gas power to

electric power.

Yeah.

I have not driven the hybrid.

I only drove the gas.

But the gas, the fuel economy on that V6 is not ideal.

No, it's not.

So honestly, that's the,

that's kind of been the downside of minivans for a while

is like we're getting more fuel efficient three row SUVs.

Well, outside of the Toyota Sienna,

everything is basically like, well,

if you get a minivan,

you're going to get 20 miles per gallon.

Yeah.

And the plug-in hybrid is not ideal for a lot of people

who don't plug it in.

Right.

Some family friends I can think of.

Yeah.

We're not going to do the math on the air,

but I have a hard time believing you're ever going to

recoup the cost of fuel based on,

or excuse me,

this fuel savings are never going to recoup the cost

of the premium you have to pay to get that pinnacle trim.

It's an expensive technology.

Yeah.

Okay.

Let's keep rolling right down the list.

Next up is the Honda Odyssey.

Yeah.

An old favorite,

but it is an old.

Old being the operative word here.

Yeah.

I think it's the oldest generation on the list.

I think 2017 for the 2018 model year is when it was launched.

It's still good,

but it's definitely the most.

Man.

It's dated though.

In terms of driving,

it's the best far and away.

The best driving.

I think it is absolutely the best driver.

It's I, yeah, it gets terrible gas mileage.

Yeah.

The touch screen 22 combined,

but it is so much better at just to drive in terms of like

it's steering and is handling the engine is stronger.

It feels like a,

feels like a car that they turned into a minivan rather than

a minivan that they were just like,

Oh, we need to throw an engine in it.

That's fair.

That's a strong endorsement.

I mean, I said the touch screen sucked.

Yeah.

No, but I think that's a really good point that like it feels

intentional and like well assembled and like things are working

together.

Very Honda ask.

Yeah.

It's not like just wedging pieces together from the parts bin.

I love Honda's new tech.

And it's, it's simple tech.

It's not flashy.

It's very stripped down, but also just clean.

And I think the Ridgeline and the Odyssey,

we both had a Ridgeline recently.

I think you did too.

I don't think I forgot that.

Well, well, not only I both did the,

the tech in it was notably aged.

It's still worked.

It worked well, but it just felt older.

And I think as far as I know,

the Odyssey and the Ridgeline are the last two Hondas to get

an update.

Okay.

Everything else has the newer kind of feel on the inside,

which I love.

I love Honda current interiors.

I remember with the HRV trying to film it and being like,

I know I need to get footage of this screen.

Does it really not do anything else?

It's very much.

Elliott's going to say it and give him a B roll.

It's phone projection.

Yeah.

That's what their screens,

that's what they want you to do.

That's what they built their thing around.

And for me, that works.

It's not going to work for everybody.

It is realistic.

Yeah.

It's like, how are people really using this?

The Odyssey, it starts at a little expensive,

especially it being the oldest generation starts at 43,

42, 795 for its base trim.

Hondas are always a little pricier,

but they're also generally a little more premium feeling than

like a competitor in the same,

technically the same class.

Totally.

I will say interestingly,

it has a much lower ceiling on price.

The elite Odyssey.

So the top trim 51, 695.

Whereas the top trim Sienna, the platinum 58.

So you're getting almost 60 to Hondas,

what 52 at the top end of their lineup.

But then there's a lot more added rate with the Sienna,

like the hybrid and the oil drive.

Totally.

I just discovered something.

Yeah.

Honda no longer has the built-in vacuum in the Odyssey.

Well, that's tragic.

You know what does the other ones?

Why would they discontinue that?

Who was like, you know what I don't need in my family car?

A vacuum cleaner.

It's expensive.

It's an expensive option.

They are in the Sienna bucketing it with the fridge box,

which you know what I don't need?

I hate a fridge box.

What's the point?

The vacuum was cool.

They don't get cold enough.

Yeah.

I guess if you like have, I don't know,

formula that you've opened and you got to put it in there

and keep it good.

The vacuum absolutely felt like a gimmick until you used it.

This is pretty sick.

The fridge box I've never enjoyed and it just feels...

You know why?

Because coolers work really well.

The thing about the Odyssey, which I think does,

it does better than most are the magic slide seats.

Do you know about these seats?

But please explain.

So do a demo.

So the Odyssey, eight seats, right?

But the middle seat in the Odyssey can be removed easily.

And then not just forward and back, the middle seats can move,

but also left and right.

Side?

To side.

Yeah.

So you can basically have, instead of two captain's chairs,

you can have two seats, a middle and a side,

giving you easy access to that third row.

And I think that is, as far as I know,

it's the only van that does that.

And you can configure it.

So either one has the access to the third row,

depending on like your garage and where the door from the kitchen

is or whatever.

It is a wildly convenient feature.

That it almost would make me look at the Odyssey as the number one

choice if it weren't for the poor gas mileage.

Those magic seats are, they're magic.

They're perfectly named.

Different cheater.

We expect the Odyssey to get significantly better gas mileage

in a couple of years.

Well, do you want to talk about what's going on with Honda?

I can't remember the year specifically,

but I know they are, they're canceling production,

pausing essentially canceling production on the Ridgeline.

Also the Odyssey.

Can't remember, but they're, they are delaying the,

the redesign for these vehicles a couple of years further

because they had to write down so much cash after the EV fiasco.

And the idea is that they will return,

I believe in 2029 model year with hybrid power trains.

I think the Odyssey as it is now with slightly updated tech

just slightly and in a hybrid it's on, it's nearly unbeatable.

It's going to be expensive.

My only concern is that Honda does not have a hybrid power

train that it uses in this size vehicle.

Like the pilot doesn't have one, the Ridgeline doesn't have one.

The MDX doesn't have one.

So I just said, like, I love that v6 that they've used in the Odyssey

because it feels like a really fully baked piece of engineering.

And I worry that they're going to look at like their hybrid four cylinder

that they use in the CRV or whatever.

Be like, hey, could we, could we use this?

Could we like boost the power or adjust this?

Yeah. And the Sienna doesn't drive as well as the Odyssey,

but it does get what 34 miles per gallon.

36, 36, 36, 36, right?

36 city highway.

I didn't see that.

I love when that Natalie saw higher.

Yeah.

Oh, would you say 39?

You mean your testing in my testing?

I think I saw 31, which still felt awesome.

I mean, 31 for you is like hypermiling.

I will say the thing that the Odyssey has over anything else

is the maximum cargo volume.

And it is the winner.

So that's like second row down, third row down, 155.8 cubic feet.

How much more is that than the winner by a lot?

Percentage-wise, how much more is that?

It's 10 feet more than the number two.

Okay.

That's a lot.

10 cubic feet.

So max, let's go through this.

Maximum for all seats in place is the Kia Carnival at 40.

So behind the third row, 40 cubic feet.

Third row folded is the Odyssey at 91.

And maximum cargo space is the Odyssey at 155.8.

Wow.

So let's call it 156.

So they're all pretty close except for our, I guess,

our fourth minivan has the absolute worst maximum cargo space.

The Sienna, its maximum cargo space is only 100.

And do you know why?

I do.

Okay.

Natalie, do you know why?

I think I know why.

Can I guess?

Yes.

Is it because of the seats folding into the bottom

and the hybrid battery?

Because the second row of seats is not removable.

Oh.

They're tiltable and you can push them forward,

but you can't.

I don't understand this decision at all.

Like why not just make them removable?

I mean, granted, taking the second row of seats out of a car

always stinks.

They're really heavy, but you don't need to do it every time.

But sometimes you need to move your kid into college.

Like get those seats out of there.

Yeah.

Every other.

So this is maximum cargo.

So third row, second row, Odyssey 155,

ID Buzz 145, Carnival 145, Pacifica 140,

Voyager 140, Sienna 100.

So it's like, it's far the last.

Yeah.

It's, it's absolutely the last one.

And that's, I think that's, it's Achilles' heel

among some other things.

That is, that is the one thing that on,

in the comments for our video, it's like, yeah,

but the seats don't come out.

It's like, for me, I don't think I need that.

I haven't run up on that need personally,

but for some people it seems to be very important.

Your kids haven't gone to college yet.

That's true.

Not yet.

Some people's have.

They have not been there yet.

But the Sienna is the one that I'm most familiar with.

It's the one we just did your full review on Natalie.

Yep.

What do you think about the Sienna?

I mean, I, I did really like spending time with it.

It was, it was nice.

We had the platinum trim.

So it was, it was pricey.

Top end.

What was the price?

It was, it was either just over or just under 60.

Let's call it 60.

Yeah.

As I wrote, as tested passes the $60,000 mark.

It might have been like 60,500.

Yeah.

It had everything though.

It had, it had the vacuum and had the fridge box.

Well, you can't get one without the other.

I mean, leather, the moonroof.

I'm trying to think what else was special.

Like I don't think the.

The screen was the biggest screen,

but I don't think it's only on the platinum trim.

And then there was the,

like the footstools that come up in the second row,

which was nice.

The power lift gate and like foot sensing.

Had it all.

Power lift gate.

Which it should.

That's 60.

Yeah.

And foot sensing,

sliding doors on the side.

That was nice.

If you're holding your kid and want to put him in the car seat

and just swipe your foot.

Just swing the child.

And every time on a video, we try to demo that.

I'm terrible.

It seems to never work.

But the side thing, it worked pretty easily.

I remember the rear hatch took a couple.

Yeah.

I always get it when you're not filming.

And then I never get it when you are.

Like not once have I ever nailed that.

So the Sienna base price 40,120.

And that is the base L E MSRP before destination.

No all wheel drive.

The thing about that is,

I think that is a misleading number because a lot of people want the Sienna

because it has all wheel drive.

And I think the XLE is the first trim where most people are going to end up.

And the XLE with all wheel drive and destination 49,115.

That's a lot higher.

Cause I have, I've,

I've built many a Sienna in my time and the XLE is where I'm at.

And the all wheel drive is what I think I need.

It's 50 grand, just under 50 grand.

That's, that's, that's expensive.

It's a big difference.

It's a pricey option for somebody who's a, let's say frugal.

I won't use the C word.

The cheap word.

I'll say I'm frugal.

That's what you're going to say, right?

I feel like there aren't a lot of L E's out there.

I mean, base trims are hard to find.

Like pure base trims don't make up a huge part of the sales.

And the XLE is just one up from the,

I think it's L E and then XLE, right?

And then it's XSE after that.

That's right.

So I'm looking at listings on cargroups.com of 2026.

So new, new Toyota Sienas,

L E eight passenger all wheel drive.

They have a list of 46,390 bucks.

That's inclusive of fees.

That's tough.

Toyota Sienna XLE seven passenger.

So has all wheel drive 52,360.

So yeah, I mean, the Sienna is it,

it realistically it's a $50,000 car

and you could spend north of 60 if you want a nice one.

That is, that's a lot.

It's a lot to stomach cheddar.

But what does it have?

It's, it's, it's a standard hybrid,

36 miles per gallon front wheel drive combined,

35 all wheel drive.

A reputation at the very least for bulletproof for live.

And it's going to hold its value too.

That's the, that's the other thing.

They stay expensive because I have looked at used Sienas

and they're not that much cheaper.

Elliott's over to be like, trust me guys,

I've looked above, I've looked below.

There's no way around it.

You have to go through.

There's a reason I don't currently own one.

It's cause they're expensive.

But I don't know.

What do you think?

What are, what are some other things about the Sienna

that you think are, are, are feathers in its cap?

It's a catch 22 because if you get rid of the children,

like if you sell the children,

you can afford the Sienna,

but then you no longer need the Sienna.

But you might still want it depending on who you are.

That's true.

It's no longer about the kids.

It wants it for himself.

I will mention the Woodland edition is just kind of funny.

Like it's, you know, lifted and like any more rugged version.

They got to go camping with your family.

They made that especially for me.

They said, they called me.

They said, Matt, we're thinking about a special edition.

We might make it a full trim.

It's specifically for you.

It's called the Woodland edition.

And I said that.

I think that sounds great.

So they, they made it.

I gave them approval and they, they did it.

You heard it here.

The base price on that Woodland is 51 six.

Oh, interesting.

Cause in, in the video, I said, oh, you know what?

That's probably not with destination.

I had like,

No, this is MSRP.

Okay.

Fair.

And then that green color, you know,

you see him in the green.

It does a good green.

They gave me a call.

They said, we're thinking about a Woodland.

It's going to be green.

Matt, what do you think?

It was Nori green on the Lexus LS or LC 500.

I'd be surprised if they called it the same on the Sienna.

It's not the same.

It's not.

But the, the 2021, which is when the standard or when the

hybrid engine became standard, we did a review.

Cypress and it was that green color.

And it was really nice.

Oh, actually.

We have a few other distinct green variations, including

Woodland pearl, a slightly darker forest green,

silver pine, Micah, a pale, silver, sage green,

green pearl.

So who, who knows?

Thanks Google AI.

That was a really helpful answer.

Yes.

2021 we reviewed that video is also still on cargers.

People want to go see it.

It's probably not as good as Natalie's,

which is also more current.

It's just more recent, but it is gorgeous.

It's like one of my favorite car photos I've ever taken.

It was like early morning, the like mist over the,

the like low fog over the soccer fields.

It's very, it was very good.

Maybe it's, I don't think it's a hot take.

I, it's my favorite looking of the, of the options.

Really?

Yeah.

I think you both kind of said the Pacifica.

I'm, I've said, I don't love the carnival.

The Sienna is my pick for the best looking minivan,

which take a really bit.

I don't have a, I can't decide.

Like, I feel like my,

What's a between?

Well, it just, it literally is between all four.

It shifts based on the day.

Sometimes I actually really do like the carnival.

Today is,

I like the front of the carnival.

Today's not that day.

I have, I feel like the Sienna looks more like,

like a magnificent beast.

You know, it has like, it looks like a true locomotive.

Well, train.

That's the basis of it.

It actually is supposed to be inspired by the bullet trains.

Yeah.

The Japanese Shinkansen.

But sometimes I like the,

I think the Odyssey looks sporty sometimes,

particularly when it's got like the blacked out front.

It has that little dip at the end.

There was a red one.

I saw a red one with like blackout trim that I thought looked nice.

I think that the outgoing Pacifica is the,

probably the classiest of them.

Definitely.

That's the cleanest one I have.

It feels like the most luxury.

I feel like I haven't really given any consumer advice,

frankly, in the last hour.

Well, let's, let's, let's take it to which one would we take home?

I've, I've said, I think on this pot,

I've said before I'm looking at the Sienna as the one I'm taking home,

unless Honda can, can get their hybrid production going sooner than I think they will.

For me, it's the Sienna Natalie.

We'll go down the line.

I think because of the hybrid and the, and the all wheel drive,

it would be Sienna.

I also, in my family, my husband really wants one,

but we are kind of like a Honda family.

We've owned a lot of Hondas.

So I'd love to see that hybrid in there in a couple of years.

And the magic seats are,

that's like a huge thing that I would really enjoy.

Matt, what about you?

This is your chance to give some consumer advice.

What are you taking home?

What do you think he's going to say?

It's going to, it's going to be a hot take.

It's going to be Pacifica.

Carnival?

I don't like any of them.

You guys have pointed this out.

They all have.

Yeah.

And today they all have a critical flaw.

Yeah.

The, and honestly,

the Pacifica is arguably the most,

or the least flawed because it's the most known commodity.

Like its flaw is just kind of like the known commodity as well.

It's a Chrysler and I'm concerned about reliability,

but I'm not concerned about the, the engine.

So that's, that's a,

it's a weird hurdle to mentally get over,

but the Odyssey, it's old.

It doesn't get the fuel economy you want.

The touchscreen is old,

but drives great, has really good,

the magic seat thing is an incredible feature.

Kia Carnival.

Exists.

It exists.

We are acknowledging it.

Honestly, I think,

I think if you get the gas Kia Carnival,

you basically have better tech,

but nothing else better than you get out of the Odyssey,

which is, I'm not going to buy it just for the tech.

And then the Sienna,

yes, the fuel economy is incredible.

And I do like how it looks,

but it is not as just like,

not having a removable second row.

I don't understand it.

And a big, that like pull for the minivan for me

is being able to take out all the rows

and just fill the back with stuff.

One kid.

That's, that's like what I actually want to do.

So that, and also it's just,

it's a little bit pokey.

It's like not nearly as,

as engaging to drive as the other three.

So it's a little like they all have things they're good at

and they all have one thing they're the worst at,

like none of them are even second

or first and everything.

Yeah.

Screw it.

I'll say the Sienna.

Yeah.

It's fine.

Is that three for three?

I think that's a consensus.

It's, it's got to be the best selling of the four.

It has to be.

I can buy that.

I say that without, without actually knowing that,

but it, you see them everywhere.

They're everywhere.

I mean, they're, they're taxi cabs.

Like there's a reason cab companies.

Christ of Pacifica.

Really?

110,000 units in the most recent calendar year.

110,000.

Versus roughly 85K for the Sienna.

That said an 87 for the Odyssey.

That said,

the Pacifica is definitely floating on rental.

Yeah.

I'm surprised.

That's a, that's a lot of,

why don't more automakers make a van?

Why doesn't Nissan make a van?

Why doesn't Ford?

Well, who knows?

There should be,

we should have more mid-vans.

Yeah.

I mean, like,

they're selling big numbers.

400,000 RAV4s.

Okay.

Like, sure.

They're selling a lot of cars that aren't minivans.

But I think we've identified an opportunity here

for somebody to come in and just nail it.

Like we just laid out what you got to do.

Do all these things right.

Just, just do it.

Basically put a hybrid in the Odyssey.

Just do it.

That's a good, they should use that.

I should sell that to somebody.

It really works.

So last segment.

What's in my driveway?

I don't think either of you are sharing.

Yeah, this is just you.

So I'm curious.

You had a recent Range Rover.

Yeah.

I have the Land Rover Defender.

How does it make you feel

like other people are looking at you?

Are you self-conscious?

Is it cool?

The Range Rover makes me,

no car makes me more self-conscious

than driving a Range Rover.

So I think the most self-conscious I have ever felt

in a car is not this one.

It was an F-150 Raptor.

It was bright orange.

That I felt crazy.

And I felt like people were staring this.

It's black or it's very dark gray.

The interior is black.

It feels like it blends in.

You don't think people are looking at you

being like, what trust fund spit this kid out?

I don't know if this is on the mark or not,

but I feel like most people look at Land Rover,

the average person,

I don't think they think of it as true luxury.

Oh, I disagree.

Yeah.

I think somebody sees a Mercedes or a BMW,

even though those are far cheaper than this Defender.

I think, I don't know if Land Rover

really shouts luxury to me.

That's my opinion.

That's anecdotal.

But it's the Defender 130,

which is a fun three row.

It's a three row, the big one.

There's the 90, the 110 and the 130.

The 130 is the three row.

That's what this is.

And it's a fun trim name

because that's just about how much it costs.

It's $128,000, which is phenomenal.

It's an insane price.

It's a five liter supercharged V8

makes just under 500 horsepower

and it's a wild driver.

I had the Land Rover Defender Octa a couple months ago.

That was a turbocharged V8.

So a very different kind of engine

that made over 600 horsepower.

Oh my.

And that was $160,000.

So this Defender, even though it's 130,

there's more room.

You can go higher.

The thing I was most surprised about is how,

and maybe I shouldn't be surprised

because it's a giant three row SUV.

The handling is so light and loose.

I feel so disconnected from the road in this car.

The queen of sedans here.

I don't like that at all.

Well, I know it shouldn't when it's that big.

It's huge and it drives big,

but just the steering is,

you can go like this and nothing happens.

You really have to,

there's a lot of wheel travel you have to do.

Even in the dynamic mode,

it tightens it up a little bit,

but that's the thing that I come away with most.

It's a very smooth, soft driver,

but the steering is so light.

But if you're-

Do you feel the same way in the Octa?

I don't recall feeling that way as much.

You were also navigating snow banks.

That was true.

That was a big thing when you had that long.

But like merging onto a highway,

or if you have straight road,

you have power for years.

Like I was just here for days,

but it's there.

It's longer than days.

It's much.

But yeah, super expensive.

Third row space is actually huge.

I'm surprised by how much leg room there is in the third row.

Granted, the cargo space is useless using the third row,

but surprisingly, really comfortable.

I could sit there,

I could sit back there, no problem.

Would you rather that or Toyota Sienna?

Sienna.

Okay.

That ruins my car enthusiast credentials.

No, money can't buy happiness.

The Defender 130 5 liter supercharged V8,

it's a lot of car and it's more car

than my daily commute requires.

10 miles to the gallon is what I'm getting

with premium fuel in today's economy.

15 for normal people.

I don't know what it's rated for,

but I'm getting like 10.3,

which is that's tough.

That's tough.

Not great, Bob.

For a 93 fuel required.

So that's our, that's the episode today.

Okay.

That's it.

That's the end of it.

It has to go.

I do.

It's time for me to go.

Any last words from either of you?

I'll let you go.

Listen.

If you don't want a minivan,

you don't want a minivan.

Yep.

It's that is fine.

Then get the Defender 130.

However,

don't think that minivans aren't the best choice.

They are.

They make so much sense.

But if you don't want them,

don't buy one.

It's fine.

We'll end on that.

Thank you guys.

Have a great week.

Dodge Grand

Chrysler Town

Honda Odyssey

Ford Windstar

Land Rover Defender

Chrysler Pacifica

Volkswagen Id

Volkswagen Bus

Toyota Grand Highlander

Chrysler Voyager

Subaru Outback

Hyundai Genesis

Toyota Siennas

Honda Ridgeline

Honda Crv

Lexus Lc500

Toyota RAV4

Land Rover Range Rover

Ford F150

Original notes