THE CARPOOL BOOK CLUB - YESTERYEAR

Welcome to the Carpool podcast with Kelly.

Okay, I don't know how like you think we started meeting,

but first of all,

we're all going to talk about how our weekends were.

And then we're slowly going to ease in to like talking

about something and tell her like, okay, so who did that?

And Liz.

And if someone had a bad day,

we're going to give her space to like tell us what's going

on in her life and then we'll get to the,

then we'll get to the time sensitive topic.

Your mom time off starts now.

Welcome back to the Carpool podcast with Kelly and Liz.

And today is 23 days till the auto show.

I know, so crazy.

If you're tired of hearing about it, I'm so sorry.

Cause I, I'm honestly not even tired of talking about it

because I'm actually getting excited.

I really haven't let myself get excited

cause I've been so stressed, but now I'm excited.

I did already cry today.

Okay.

So.

What was like, what about just overwhelm or?

Or do you not want to talk about it?

No, I mean, I'm happy.

I mean, I brought it up.

So I probably did this time.

Okay.

Make sure everything's okay.

It was just like trying to get in like all these news

interviews and like having to rearrange the childcare

for the children.

And it's like, well, if I need,

the problem is I just like live so far from the venue.

So like once I get up to St. Louis,

like I'm kind of there.

And I think I just tried to like spend as much time

with my kids as possible this week.

And like during the auto show and like looking back

at the schedule, I should have probably just treated this

like I'm out of town.

And if I see you before bed, great.

If I don't, I'm out of town.

You know, like I'm trying to like do,

I'm trying to do it all.

And it, you know,

it's really all this time.

I know.

And that's not a mom trying to do it all.

That's what I told Maddie too.

I was like, I could come home between setting up

and then the VIP night,

but I actually think it's better

if no one assumes I'm going to be home.

Dinner, you like it's not on me.

Like I'm not, I can't be late for things.

Like I have to be at places.

So we just kind of have to assume.

It feels like I'm out of town, which is, which is,

as a mom, it's almost something you have to like turn off

because I'm like, well, no, but I could go home

and I could like get dinner ready.

And I would have time to do it,

but it's not the right thing to do

cause I also have to like chill.

And like, right.

And like we're going to set up all day.

Like that's just so us though.

Like we're going to set up all day.

We're going to be exhausted.

We're going to have like an hour to get ready

for the VIP night.

And we're going to be like,

I could probably run home and like, you know,

make something for supper.

It's like order the kids pizzas.

Shut up, leave me alone.

I know, I know.

It's like, it's one week.

It's one week, calm down.

I know.

Anyway, so yeah.

So I did have a mental breakdown.

I think I will have another.

Also me and my husband are working very closely this week,

which comes with its challenges.

Tyler's really spearheading a lot of the auto show this year,

which has been lovely and great.

Cause it means less for us to do,

but there is a level of let go

that you have to give.

Yeah.

For sure.

And he stressed too.

Cause it's a really,

you're both stressed.

No, cause it is a stressful event.

I know it's so funny.

And he's like, we just really like handle,

we just like in our personal and like marriage life,

like we're fine, but like professionally,

we just like handle things very differently.

Yeah.

And I think it's also just like,

we don't have a lot of men on our team.

Like it's literally like a bunch of girls and Tyler.

And I think sometimes we're like,

okay, I don't know how like you think we started meeting,

but first of all,

we're all going to talk about how our weekends were.

And then we're slowly going to ease in to like talking

about something and tell her's like, okay.

So who did this?

And if someone had a bad day,

we're going to give her space to like tell us

what's going on in her life.

And then we'll get to the,

then we'll get to the time sensitive topics.

And that's on a team of mothers and women.

And then yeah, then you just have Tyler,

he just comes in a little,

a little hot and heavy sometimes.

So that's okay.

There's also a level of,

level of what I'm sure where it's like,

you are the boss to everyone on our team.

And, but you don't want to feel that way to your husband.

But it's also like, wait, but this is my,

like I need to make some decisions.

And I actually don't want to be the boss.

And I do trust him whole, for most things,

I trust him a hundred percent.

There's a level of it that like,

I don't want to be the boss too.

Yeah, yeah.

But then some things I do want to be the boss on

and he doesn't always understand what those things are.

And only I know what those things are.

And you don't know what they are until they're in front of you.

Okay, so there's just like a lot going on.

Yeah, there's a lot going on.

And my kids have royally kicked my behind

the past three days, like, wow.

Okay, let's just make a pact now.

Like let's not, is it better to not do the auto show

when school's out or is it better?

It's worse for you.

I feel like it's better for attendees.

I would like to prioritize the attendees.

It's, there's nothing to do.

We just had, we're just figuring it out, you know?

Yeah.

And next year, it's not the big kids.

It's just like, it's the big kids in combination

with the little kids.

It's the four.

It's having four kids.

But next year, Libby's going to be so much older.

And I think I'm going to just be thriving more.

Anyways, not here to complain, but you know, it's also just...

Two years, we're doing it two years from now, Kelly.

At that point, I'm sorry, George is working.

I was thinking, I was like,

should we like let the kids like sell drinks or something

or like set up a lemonade stand?

Oh.

And it just feels like another thing

you have to worry about.

Well, he was going to set up with them.

Yeah, I know.

And who's getting the lemonade?

Like, please.

Okay, but anyway, we have so much to do on this episode.

We have to, first of all, I have some things on my dump.

I'm going to have a quick recap of my surprise trip.

And then we're going to do our yesteryear recap.

So excited.

We have, we'll finish the book.

Sorry, I'm yawning.

And we have not discussed it at all.

And I'm like biting my tongue

every time I get on the phone with you.

Okay, so let me just get to the couple of things

I wanted to cover on my dump really fast.

So, I am currently, you know,

something about me when people are always like,

what's it like to be a working mom?

Or how do you balance it all?

I always find myself gravitating towards like

a home-making task in my most stressful work weeks,

for some reason.

I'm making sourdough scones this week.

Lemon raspberry.

I really want to make homemade cinnamon rolls,

but I think I'm not going to do it this week.

I think I'm going to do it next week.

But that sounds like on my docket.

But another kind of like side quest slash micro hobby

that I'm really just going to work on

for the rest of the summer.

I want to, one, learn how to make my bed beautifully.

And two, I want to improve my bed

or like buy more pillows or blankets.

Like I want a beautifully made bed every day.

That's just like a way that I think I,

that is a service that I'd like to provide for myself.

I saw this Instagram of this guy who's like,

everyone's making their bed wrong.

This is how you make your bed.

No, I love him.

I'm buying a wooden pillow.

I love the down halfway.

I love the lumber pillow.

So, I started making my bed that way.

And the first day I made it that way,

Maddie made a comment.

So, like our nanny will like change the kids' sheets

or like she like does chores for the kids.

And he was like, wow, she really knows how to make a bed.

I'm like, Maddie, she doesn't make our bed.

Like she doesn't do chores for us.

Like she doesn't make our bed.

I made this bed.

And he was like, I can't believe you made this bed.

But it's nice because it's the easiest way

I've ever made a bed before.

And it's also, it looks good.

And also it allows your sheets to breathe,

which is apparently a thing that has to happen.

What is his name?

What's, cause I want to share it with you.

I have no idea what his name is.

I know, he just like always comes across my desk.

He just popped, he just popped up

and I didn't follow him.

Like that's his whole shtick, just like making a bed.

And I had to watch it, I had to watch it one time.

Oh, here he is.

I just typed in making bed and he came right up.

Okay, his name is Louis Burke L-O-U-I-B-U-R-K-E.

Yeah, Louis Burke.

You know, like I'm telling you his whole account

is about making beds.

No, I'm so with you, Kel.

I actually feel the exact same way.

I'm like, I feel like I need something new in my bedding

cause something's not a hundred percent right.

And I need, I need my bed to be such an oasis.

I need it to be an oasis.

I need it to be my bed.

I also want it to look beautiful.

I want to make it.

I love having a made bed.

And the problem is I don't really even bother,

sorry, hot take making my bed every day

because I'm not good at it.

So I'm like, it's gonna look like crap regardless.

So like, why would I waste,

sometimes I'll pull my covers over,

but I, it's just a blind spot of a scale that I have.

Yes, I agree.

And there's something about,

I'm just thinking about maternity leave.

And there's something about if I get up, make my bed,

to then just go lay back in my bed to rot with a baby.

Yeah.

I will feel better about myself.

Yeah.

I totally agree.

What is up with that?

Just something about laying in a fresh bed.

So kind of my goal is,

so right now I have like white sheets

and I have a white duvet.

I just like properly clean my duvet.

Like I actually got bleach involved

and I kind of ruined some of it,

but it looks fine.

Perfect.

I'd love to add like a waffle knit

or like just like another layer,

but I think that's like not my summer goal.

I think my goal for the rest of the summer

is just to learn how to make amazing bed with what I have.

And then I'd like to maybe introduce like,

I also want to,

I want to have a changing of the guards,

the changing of the seasons.

Like I might even explore

what a flannel sheet looks like this winter.

I don't know what I'm going to do.

Sure. Yeah.

But I just want to improve my bed making.

So I'm welcoming any tips.

I might get a linen spray.

I might get new pillows,

but I kind of, I'm telling you I,

I'm going to start by making it,

but I am not going to rest figuratively

until my bed is like unbelievable.

Okay, that's a really good goal

that I think is going to change a lot of your life.

Yeah, it's kind of like my new micro hobby this summer.

Side quest, micro hobby.

I love that.

Aside from that,

I'm just like kind of,

oh, and then I went to Vegas for 24 hours.

Yeah.

And it was, first of all,

like I was so grateful to have yesteryear

for both plane rides.

The Vegas flight's a little far.

It's about two and a half hours, two hours and 50 minutes.

That's like a long kind of thing on a plane.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, it's about an hour too long for a long flight,

but I was happy to have yesteryear.

So we got there.

We drove to the straight to the hotel.

We quickly ate lunch.

Then we went to the Bronco thing.

It was really, really unbelievable.

Like couldn't believe they just like let you drive.

Also my biggest takeaway is that

the cars do all the work.

And like, I don't, I mean,

the cars like just do everything.

Like it takes a very, it takes very little skill.

That's very interesting.

I know.

Yeah, okay.

Now, if you are like, if you have a, you know,

2008 Jeep Wrangler respect,

but if you're taking a 2026 for Bronco off road,

I'm sorry, you, the car is doing itself.

It literally has this button called trail,

trail climb or whatever, and you hit this button

and it just goes up the hill for you.

Like it was insane.

Wow.

Like I didn't get stuck.

I didn't like, I just did.

I mean, or I'm just talented, but I don't think it's that.

I think it was in fact, the car.

You know, it does.

When I was, you were watching some of the,

you were showing me some of the videos is like,

they clearly trust the car enough because that,

cause you could have just like, like,

they trust the car enough to like let people do this.

Like that's why they're doing it.

100%.

That's why Ford's like doing it.

But anyway, so they have these locations

all around the country and they invited me out

to like do like a father's day promotion thing.

But also if you're going to any of these places,

like, and you have, I mean, it would be so fun

for your husband, but I just kept thinking like,

oh my gosh, I want to take my boys here

when they're like 14.

I think at 14, they can be passengers.

You have to be 19 to drive, but 14 to be a passenger.

But like that would be such a fun.

I think it's always hard to like,

what do you do with teenage boys on vacation?

Like that would be so fun.

Or girls.

Yeah, yeah.

It was fun.

That's a cool, that's a new memory for sure.

And then we got home.

We were so tired.

We didn't have the fabulous dinner reservation.

Well, I mean, we went to the dinner reservation,

but like we ordered as soon as she got there,

like eight quickly and left.

Like it wasn't like a take your time.

I know you guys went like dark on social media.

We went dark.

We were so tired.

I was so tired.

We went to bed at 8.45.

And the next morning we got up

and I was like kind of jet-legged

because it's two hours behind.

So also like I got up at 4.45.

Well, that's 6.45.

And I might normally wake up at 5.

Like I was ready to go.

And then, you know, I just like walked down to Starbucks

and we hadn't gambled at all.

And I'm not a big gambler,

but I do like to play roulette sometimes.

So I just like sat there with a coffee.

Chip brought me a mimosa and I just played roulette.

I spent a hundred.

I got a hundred dollars worth of chips

and I was got, I walked away with a hundred and sixty dollars.

There you go.

Yeah.

I called you that morning to just like be like,

you went dark, like what's going on?

And you didn't answer.

But then Tyler called me and he's like, is everything OK?

And I'm like, yeah.

He was like, well, you called Kelly

and I told her it could have been an emergency.

And I'm like, Tyler, two phone calls in a row is an emergency.

One phone call is just what's going on.

He's like, well, she's at the, she's at the craps table.

I'm like, I don't think Kelly knows how to play craps.

No, I don't know.

I know he was definitely playing roulette.

I was like, OK, I'll take this later.

He's like, answer.

I'm like, you can't answer phones

like in the middle of a roulette game, Tyler.

Yeah. And so they freaked out, calls her.

So roulette's the one where it's like you pick

black or red, odd or even.

But what I like to do is I like to pick the ones where it's like,

is it going to be like 11 through 19, 19 through 20, whatever.

Or like it's like it's so you win two to one.

So if you put one down, then you get two chips.

OK.

And I was really good.

I'm good.

Tyler's not because he always is like, well, it was red last time.

So it'll be this. I'm like, no, it's just on the vibes.

It's just the vibe for sure.

For sure. Yeah.

So. So, yeah.

I don't think you can you be necessarily good

or you just keep just guessing.

It's kind of just a guessing game. No.

Oh, yeah, I think it's kind of just a guessing game.

Yeah. But it's fine.

And it it doesn't like like a blackjack or like slots.

Like you'll just like throw my like this.

At least I probably sat at that table for 45 minutes.

Like that's a long time to only put a hundred dollars in.

Yeah, Vegas sucks.

Like I'm telling you, I just also it's such a

it's also like so not I feel like it's not what it once was

because I feel like the millennials and the Gen Z's

just like are not that into like drinking as much

and like losing their money in Vegas.

It's not quite as like fabulous.

It's more like sad.

I know, Tyler was just like, look at all these people

like spending their kids inheritance.

Yeah, that is sad.

It was kind of sad.

And then you just know, like, you don't know.

But the thing is, it's like, you don't know who has money

and who just like is pretending they have money

because we were at this like this one couple was at the roulette table.

Mind you guys, this was eight in the morning.

Like this was an insane time.

Yeah, there was this other couple and they were blowing through their money.

Like she just kept handing the girl a hundred dollars

and then she put all of her chips on him and then she'd lose it all.

Like she was never winning.

I'm like, maybe you should like slow down.

Like we're having it was weird.

Yeah.

So then we got home and it's been go, go, go, go ever since.

Today's episode is brought to you by K-12.

For parents, summer means it's time to reflect on the previous year.

What worked well, what could be better, what are next year's goals?

For the year ahead, it's worth exploring all your options

to make sure your child is comfortable,

supported and challenged enough in their learning environment.

That's why I want to tell you about K-12 powered schools.

K-12 offers tuition free, accredited online public schools

for students in kindergarten through 12th grade.

Families have been turning to K-12 for at-home learning for over 25 years

and it could be the perfect fit for your child.

At K-12, students learn from state certified teachers

that are trained in online education.

So this is different than traditional homeschooling.

They provide personal instruction and real-time support

and use hands-on innovative technology

that makes learning interactive.

Plus, K-12 offers flexible education options

tailored to each child's needs, interests and goals

so they can learn in a way that fits best for them.

Explore what's possible for your child with K-12 powered schools

and roll online today at k-12.com slash carpool.

That's the letter K, the number 12.com slash carpool.

K-12.com slash carpool.

Today's episode is brought to you by Tumble.

I have a new puppy and two kids with a third on the way.

So a rug that is not both machine washable and spill-proof

is just unacceptable to me.

It is all that I'm buying right now.

It is all that I'm considering right now

because when the inevitable happens and accident happens,

my day can either be ruined,

that now my rug is ruined

or I'm gonna be on my hands and knees scrubbing stains,

or I can say no big deal, take the cover off,

throw it in the wash, we're fine, we're moving on with our day.

So that's why I love Tumble rugs.

They have this spill-proof surface

that causes liquids to beat up on top of the rug.

So instead of soaking into the fibers like most rugs,

you can literally wipe spills away in seconds.

And when you need a deeper clean,

tumble rugs are machine washable,

so you just take the top layer off,

throw it in the washer, and you're good to go.

Machine washable rugs made better.

For a limited time only,

our listeners get 10% off plus free shipping

at tumbleliving.com slash carpool.

That's T-U-M-B-L-E, living.com slash carpool.

After your purchase, they will ask you

where you heard about them.

Please support our show and tell them we sent you.

Yeah, we went to the St. Louis Air Show this weekend,

which was so fun.

It's literally seven minutes from my house,

so it felt like something we had to do.

And similarly to the Karma Moda show,

it only comes every two years.

So this was my first time going.

And to go at 30 weeks pregnant was bold,

but I got such a hookup from a carpool listener.

I have to give her a shout out.

I'm not gonna say her name because privacy,

but she was like, hey.

Probably Jen.

Yeah, she was like, hey, my husband's a blue angel.

Wow.

She was, normally we go to some of these events,

like we skipped this one.

And so she was able to give us some friends

and family tickets, so we were able to get under a tent

and have better parking, which I was so thankful for

because the other parking was so far, I wouldn't have made it.

I would have just like,

Maddie would have been pushing a double stroller

and carrying his pregnant wife.

It was so hot, but it was so cool.

I've never been to an air show.

Kel, like two years from now, we're making it a thing.

Like I have a better lay of the land now.

Well, and that's so good to have a better land of the land.

I got some good tips from Jen,

Louangels wife, and yeah.

So we are, we're doing it right next year.

I'm so down for that.

It's so cool, they do like backflips in the air, Kelly.

It's the craziest thing.

I know, and like how, it was really loud though.

Yeah, no, you need, the kids need air protection.

I mean, my house sounded like a war zone.

Interesting.

Yeah, it's really, really loud.

Okay.

But it was a lot of fun.

I love an event every two years, you know what I mean?

I love an event every two years,

like we went with mom and dad and all of us

without coordinating showed up in red, white and blue.

It's just like this very patriotic vibe.

Like you're just, it's got all the military planes,

you know, walking around with my husband.

I realize, I sometimes forget how much he knows about history

and he was telling us what all these different planes did

and yada, yada, yada and what war they fought in

and what whatever.

And it's just really interesting.

And so if you can get the chance to see an air show,

would recommend.

Okay.

Yeah.

Have we talked enough?

Let me think.

Cause I just like would really like to talk about yesteryear.

We can talk, we can, we can talk about yesteryear.

Because if you haven't read it,

I think you should just go read it

because here's the thing, everyone's talking about it.

It's just like, it's, I don't watch reality TV,

but it feels to me like if I were to watch Love Island,

I would be, I can have more conversations with it.

And even if you don't,

cause I can see why people don't like it,

but you will finish it and you will like,

it's hard to put down.

Yes.

So.

Spoilers ahead, we're going to talk about it.

Let's get into it.

Yesteryear.

So I loved it.

It's a five star book for me, which is really crazy.

That is crazy.

I'm like, I thought it was an excellent book.

My initial thoughts of it was I didn't like it.

I did like it, but I didn't like the ending.

And at the end of it, I was like, what was this all for?

But I was entertained.

So maybe that's it.

Like I would, I was cleaning my kitchen,

listening to it every night.

I was listening to the car.

Like I was constantly listening to it,

but by the end of it,

I couldn't tell if I liked it

or if I thought that was an obscene waste of my time.

Oh my gosh.

I, okay.

So let's start with like the Tradwife storyline

to start with.

So when I, like the first chapter, I like literally was like,

I'm going to hate this book

because this girl just hates influencers,

hates Tradwives and hates Ballerina Farms.

And I don't like Ballerina Farms slander.

I really don't think the book was all that much about that.

And I actually thought at least for me,

it in a weird way felt like a really like a very,

some aspects of it felt like very relevant to my life,

I guess.

And so maybe that's why I liked it so much

because like although like I'm,

I don't think I'm anything like Natalie

because I think I don't have probably narcissism

in a psychotic break coming.

I thought that showing like the darker sides of it

was really interesting.

But I think they showed it all incorrectly.

Like I think that she is not,

she's such an unrealistic character in my mind.

So I'm like, I think we were all really interested

in a book about the Tradwife influencers

because it's something that's so relevant to our lives today.

But this character of Natalie was so unrealistic

and so not relevant to our lives today.

I mean, at first when she had Clementine

and she like couldn't really connect with her,

I'm like, okay, so we're going to get

into some postpartum depression.

Like I can't relate to how she's feeling about her daughter,

but like I do know that some people

like don't connect their babies.

And then she just like didn't like any of her kids,

the entire time.

And she had no, how many does she have nine of them?

See, I disagree because I think that it's an extreme,

like extreme stories and extreme circumstances happen.

Like she is a crazy, I mean, for lack of a word,

she is crazy.

No, I know she's crazy, but that's why I think it's unre,

that's why I was, was kind of bothered

because like by the end of it, I'm like, oh, okay.

So this is not relevant to anything in anyone's lives.

We just listened to the inner narrative of someone

with a severe mental issue that could have used help

and had all of the resources

that she could have gotten help and didn't get help.

People saw the red flags, no one did anything.

She had nine kids, she ended up abusing children for it.

Like I'm like, this was just,

like this was just unrealistic and dumb.

No, I hear what you're saying, but I think it's a,

but there are people like that in the world.

So I think it's, of course.

But they're trying to marry this offshoot of person

with like this thing, this trad wife influencer

that we're all very familiar with.

And I just, I didn't like marrying those two personalities

together because I'm like, okay, well, I didn't know

that this was just, I was excited to explore

a more realistic approach to what someone like

Ballerina Farms lives would look like.

I do think like we'll get more of those books

because like now this is a,

I think we'll have more books about influencers

to kind of like scratch that itch for us.

But I thought it was, I actually liked that it was

so the character was so out there in a way that

I guess I just, I don't want to say it was a good story

because it was a sad story, but like it was a story nonetheless.

It was an interesting story.

And it was a story, but just the way that,

I guess that the book was framed

and I can think what everyone thought

the book was going to be about.

I was like, here, like someone should write a book

about a trad wife like Ballerina Farms

who does actually get transported

and then like tries to actually make it.

Like I was excited.

I thought we were going to see more of like,

could you actually survive in this time period?

And we didn't really get that.

No, we didn't.

And I would agree, I was expecting that too.

So maybe I also just liked that we got something

very unexpected and the only thing I'll say about

like that whole storyline and like,

this is kind of an offshoot about some of the hate

I think that Ballerina Farms gets,

which I think is so unwarranted

because like there's nothing wrong with romanticizing

and borderline like honoring a certain time period.

And it's no different than when all you girly pops

are doing with the 90s.

Like you don't want to go back to the 90s.

You could never give up your Amazon Prime.

Like calm down.

Like it's okay to romanticize periods of time

like Ballerina Farms and does in a way

without actually wanting to go back to it.

Like it's fine.

It's fine to have both.

And I really think if you look at it through the lens of like,

okay, is that really any different than wanting

to give my kids a 90 summer?

The answer, I'm sorry, is no.

Yeah, that's true.

It's the same thing.

So I was actually happy.

It wasn't that much of a storyline

because I don't find,

I don't think Ballerina Farms actually wants to go back

and live in the 1800s.

No, I don't think Ballerina Farms does either.

But if I was dropped in the 1800s

or Ballerina Farms was dropped in the 1800s,

I think she would thrive a lot more.

And I kind of, I was hoping it was gonna be more

of a hero story.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And not so much like a just kind of like hate on

women story.

Well, and that's kind of like,

I think another critique of the book is the author

just kind of like hates women because no women,

no woman really like made it out okay

because they're either, you know, romanticizing,

like being a, whatever, they're either like,

I ended up like Natalie or the way the author would talk

about the girls who would like.

Like Rina.

Like Rina, like you just like couldn't win.

So I didn't, I didn't love that.

I don't know who the author thinks is like a woman

who's winning or maybe the story is like,

no matter what, like you just have to make their sacrifices

to be made all over the place.

But it was a little, I just want all of you guys to know,

like women can be happy.

Like if that does not need to be said,

like you have, you can be happy without.

Yeah.

There's lots of ways to get there.

I don't really know who in the book I was supposed to

like.

So, and I think it's okay because I actually,

everyone said that Natalie was a really unlikable character.

Now, unlikable person, yes.

Like I want to be so clear with that.

I didn't find her to be that unlikable.

I actually found Caleb to be so unlikable,

so insufferable, like he sucks.

So like for a while I was totally understanding

like, like he was just so dumb.

Like he was just always saying the stupidest things

and I was getting so frustrated for her.

Like when he was like, when like they bought the farm

and he's like, I don't want to do cattle.

Let's do vegetable.

She's like, it's a cattle farm.

He's like.

You can kind of, you can say, okay,

she's married to this man.

They talk about her preying up

and how like if she does divorce him,

like she's absolutely screwed.

She has a child with him.

Like she's, yeah, at the beginning of the book,

I was kind of like, okay,

she's a little bit trapped in this marriage with this.

I kind of felt like she was actually trying to,

to help her husband in a way

and like to sit to help her marriage in a lot of ways.

So, and like when he came home

with the kindergarten teacher idea, like,

I was like, I actually didn't think it was the worst idea

he could have come home with.

I agree.

But I loved hearing her thought process when she's like,

okay, so I can choose kindergarten teacher

or I can make him a cowboy.

And like obviously she's a person

who like really cared about images.

Like even before she was ever an influencer,

she really cared about images

because she was always talking about

how she didn't want the neighbors to see

that her husband was doing yoga in the middle of the day.

So I could understand her thought process of being like,

I think I'd rather be married to a cowboy.

Like I could understand why she was saying that.

And I thought it was interesting how she like went to Doug

and like just kind of took control of the situation.

Like I really, I don't want to say I admired her

because she is such a problematic character.

But like I was kind of like rooting for them

in a little bit, for a little bit.

And again, at this point,

you don't know what the book's about.

So like I'm literally thinking they're gonna end up

on at this ranch and then she's gonna somehow

go back to a time machine.

So like I was still kind of rooting for them.

Yeah, I just like, I'm just like,

he gave you $5 million so you could buy this ranch.

Like couldn't he have just given you $5 million?

Your husband could have been a kindergarten teacher

and you could have like lived happily,

just like all $5 million.

Yeah, but I wonder if what Doug would have said about

Caleb being a kindergarten teacher.

Well, we don't know Doug's narrative.

Like I just thought that hers was a little bit harsh

for his like first idea or like, I don't know.

But also it was, but maybe she just knew Caleb

because I'm gonna tell you, Caleb was so dumb.

Like she was like, do you know what they teach in schools?

And then he would like go on these forums.

Like he, let's be clear.

He would have been a horrible kindergarten teacher

because he would have taught kids propaganda.

Like he was kind of,

but I like loved the exaggerated narrative of like

being a guy who's like watching too much YouTube

and like following into the traps.

Like-

I thought that was an interesting narrative as well.

The Manusphere.

The Manusphere was very interesting.

So then,

and you know, I thought the writing was also just like

really good.

Oh my gosh, one of my favorite like scenes

that like really made me feel a little sad

and a little seen was when she was,

I don't remember who she was talking to.

I guess it was Nanny Louise.

And she's like, what's your Instagram?

Like I'd love to follow you.

And she's like, oh, I don't have Instagram.

And now it was like, my whole world came screeching

to a halt because like,

and I kind of did,

and maybe a sick twist of way like kind of relate to that

because sometimes I think Instagram is like

so much of my life cause it's so much of my business.

And then sometimes like talking to people who don't have it.

I'm like, oh, I'm such a loser.

I'm actually sort of touched.

Like of course I don't have Instagram

cause like they had better things to do.

I just don't, which those,

I'm not saying that's like a,

that's a fair narrative to tell myself,

but I did, I've had those moments when I've been like,

oh, look at this one's like, what do you do?

I'm like, oh, do you have Instagram?

They're like, no.

And I'm like, well, then never mind.

I just don't.

Yeah.

We don't need it.

We don't need to have further conversation.

So it's like, I thought that was kind of interesting.

Yeah.

Today's episode is brought to you by Rocket Money.

I'll be honest, personal finance,

budgeting is not my strong suit.

I can't tell you how many times I have created spreadsheets

to try and track all my spending, budgeting

because I see people on Instagram doing it.

I'm like, I want to be that organized.

And I just never, ever follow through,

which is why I have been using Rocket Money for so long

because Rocket Money tracks my spending

and categorizes it and gives me updates.

Like, hey, that was a really large purchase

that you just had.

Are you sure this was you?

Or, hey, you've spent this much so far this month.

That's this percentage up from the previous month.

And they're just giving me good information

that I need without me having to enter anything

to a spreadsheet.

I'm able to connect multiple bank accounts

so it can track my spending through my multiple cards

and it also tracks my subscriptions

and can cancel my subscriptions and just gives me reports

and I can receive real-time alerts

for large transactions, upcoming bills,

refunds, low balances, et cetera.

Rocket Money is a personal finance app

that finds and cancels unwanted subscriptions,

monitors your spending and helps you lower your bills

so that you can grow your savings.

So let Rocket Money help you reach

your financial goals faster.

Join at rocketmoney.com slash carpool.

That's rocketmoney.com slash carpool.

Rocketmoney.com slash carpool.

Today's episode is brought to you by Morning Brew Daily.

If you are looking for another podcast

that likes to break down maybe some traditionally boring

things but in a fun, fresh way,

you should check out Morning Brew Daily.

They break down the biggest news in business every morning

so it fits seamlessly into your day.

Host Neil Freiman and Toby Howell cover everything

from the latest tech headlines

to I nobody can afford a house right now.

Their witty, informative approach

makes morning news fun, not a chore.

You'll leave each episode of Morning Brew Daily

smarter and ready to take on the world around you.

Audiences say it's the perfect addition

to their morning routine.

Whether you're commuting, exercising,

or getting ready for the day,

Morning Brew Daily makes it easy

to make sense of the world of business.

So find out what millions of listeners already know.

Business news doesn't have to be boring

and potentially will give you a topic

to talk to Mark about at the trivia tournament.

So tune into Morning Brew Daily every weekday morning

wherever you get your podcasts.

So the other thing that I felt like was just kind of missing

was when did she like learn these skills

to become this trad wife?

Cause I felt like we saw none of that

and just like she moved to a farm

and then boom, she got the skill set.

And also she didn't when she was just like,

I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna create an Instagram.

Like there was nothing leading up to like,

I didn't even know she was on social media.

Like there was nothing leading up

that made me think that this would be something

she was interested in doing.

And so I didn't get her just like randomly starting to post

in like what kind of success that she thinks

she was gonna get.

Like I didn't feel like she was shooting for that.

It just kind of like happened to her

when that man chatted her out on his stream or whatever.

I agree.

And I didn't love that

because then it just felt like Caleb

was getting the credit for that.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree.

I have no idea when she learned to make sourdough.

And I maybe would have liked to have seen,

you know maybe they're on the ranch together

and like they're working on things or yeah,

I agree they kind of glazed over that.

I mean, the book just starts with her literally

going to Harvard.

So I'm like, okay, this is a very high functioning

intelligent like motivated person.

And then we just see her just like not show any signs

of that throughout the book, I felt like.

Yeah, she.

Like everything she did was out of desperation.

It wasn't out of strategy or intelligence

or anything she's learned.

Like it felt like every single move she made

was just desperation.

And maybe that's part of it.

That's interesting.

No, that is interesting.

I think it was though she always,

since like she was this high achiever,

she was like always after more.

Like that's why she just couldn't be happy

with her rich husband living off his family.

Like she just wanted more from everybody.

I guess, yeah.

And then you definitely start to see like,

you know, before we even get to yesteryear,

like you definitely start to see just like decline mentally.

Like, and I thought like her internal monologues

were really sobering.

Like it was honestly sometimes hard to listen to,

especially when I was doing it as an audio book,

because then like,

I, for like after, like if I was listening to it,

like while with my kids and like I turned it off,

then like I would start to have these like thoughts

in my head.

Oh, that's so weird.

I didn't explain.

Because I was like hearing it.

I don't know.

I can't explain.

I listened to it too.

I don't know.

I just caught myself for like, I mean, not long,

but then it's like, I couldn't get her secondary voice

like out of my head,

which I think kind of maybe just added to like this

being like such an experience of a read for me.

And then we start getting to yesteryear.

And it was, that was just wild.

Yeah.

I had no idea where it was going.

Like I couldn't believe, I hated that.

Like she like got her foot basically chopped off.

Like I found that to be like really distracting.

Yeah.

And...

Cause like now is how,

now is how is she supposed to succeed at anything?

Like...

Yeah, no, literally.

I'm like, she's gonna die.

Yeah.

But I also, I don't understand,

I still don't understand why they decided

to do this yesteryear thing.

Like why did they do that?

And here's the other thing I'm not buying about it

is like the only hint,

they did it so well that the only hint that she found

was this teeny tiny piece of microphone plastic.

Like there wasn't anything else that could have tipped her off.

Like they did it that well.

They transformed the cabin.

They didn't, they covered up every outlet,

every secret, every cord that they once had.

Like they, they were that successful at it.

Well, and I remember reading it at some point

in being like, these people aren't talking like

how they would talk in the 1800s.

Like Caleb wasn't talking like that.

And like she wasn't talking like,

so that's where I was like, that's,

I did think it was, I guess a dream or a psychotic break.

Like that's what I always thought.

I thought it was fascinating though,

how like when she was talking about the kids

because like they looked like her kids

but they weren't her kids because they are her kids.

Like there's other combinations of her and Caleb.

I just don't understand why they did it

and why Caleb went along with it.

Because we know that Natalie had a mental crisis

and so why, yeah, why did he go along with it?

Why did he with all the resources that they had

not try and get this woman help?

I mean, it's like put her in like a place for a while.

I mean, that's, that-

And like her mom should have like,

and why didn't she ever think to like ask

where her mom was or her sister was?

But I think-

That's something that I found really disturbing

is while she was in yesteryear back in time,

she never once asked, where are my other children?

She never cared where her other four children were.

And I'm like, you, that's, it was the motherhood of it all

that I just found, I could not relate to

and I could not get past.

Cause I'm like, okay, you're stuck in this place.

Like you're worried about you.

You're worried about how you're going to get out.

Where are your kids?

Cause at this time you think you still have four kids

that are young.

You know, she for sure does not,

she does not love her children.

I would say like that was and even-

That's just I found really sad and disturbing.

Which I agree, which I found sad and disturbing.

Of course, but I don't want to say I found it even,

it's unreliable, but like there are people like that.

So I, again, I found that.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I'm just centering myself.

I think-

I'm just like, I don't like you.

I'm sorry.

But like even with Maeve, oh my gosh.

And then like hearing Maeve was like 10.

Like that was like, so that was the hardest scene

in the book to read.

And then like Mary was probably like 18

and just like malnourished.

And that Caleb would take his sons

when they turned 13 or whatever to the manosphere

and then they got to learn what the TV is

and they got to learn about the world.

But Mary, who was the oldest one,

just had to stay there.

Like it was so-

That's what I'm saying.

Disturbing.

I don't have enough.

Caleb obviously has things wrong with him too.

Like that's where I just,

and Caleb's not getting enough hate in this book.

Truthfully, he's not getting enough hate

and he deserves more hate and more responsibility.

He literally like locked these women up in this cabin

so he could go hang out in the manosphere.

Right.

Like hold up.

But like did he love her though?

Because like, why would he be with it?

Like that's, there's just,

I mean, I liked the twist enough

that I still really liked the book,

but I just, and maybe like this is just kind of

for you to think about,

but I just don't understand why,

I don't understand how he went from like,

hey, my dad's gonna kill you to-

Yeah.

I'm gonna like,

cause also even though he had the manosphere,

okay, he still had to like live in that cabin

that was cold and like work hard and like,

he still didn't like live a cush life.

Yeah.

Necessarily.

Yeah.

And then like, yeah, that was where then like

his other sons would come help.

Like that was crazy.

Yeah.

Just like there's a lot of unanswered questions about it all.

And how about Shannon?

Shannon as a character.

Well, she sucked.

She was a horrible character.

I found her to be so frustrating because,

like,

okay, so she disagrees with

their family, Doug's political stance.

So then she decides to go and seduce Caleb,

father of almost,

I don't know how many kids she has at this point,

but father of many to a pregnant wife.

And then when it comes out,

the things that she says to Natalie,

I'm sorry.

I also might've physically punched someone

if they were to say those things to me.

Like she said the most outrageous, nasty, horrible things.

Like, I actually like,

okay, I probably wouldn't strangle someone,

but like I would slap someone

if they said those words to me.

100%.

Yeah, Shannon was,

and again, it's like,

that's another person who like,

this woman is obviously suffering.

And like,

This woman is obviously suffering.

Or even to her children.

You're also doing this to her children.

You're staying in touch with her,

like it was just,

it was weird.

I also didn't buy that Clementine walk the kids through

the woods when she was like 15 or 16.

And like,

I just didn't buy any of it.

I just thought it all to be just a fantasy book.

I bought all of that.

I don't know.

I mean, I hear what you're saying,

but I'm also just saying like there are,

this is an extreme story.

And there are extreme stories.

I guess I didn't get enough information on the,

cause the kids,

the set of Clementine and all those kids,

they didn't sound abused.

They had nannies that took care,

like their mom didn't sound very involved.

It sound like they had like a lot of help that,

you know, like they didn't sound the same level of.

So,

so I'm not saying that they weren't cause we don't,

I don't feel like we know.

I didn't feel like we learned enough about their life

for the extremity of,

of the Clementine marching the kids throughout the woods

in the middle of the night.

And I kind of felt like with the first set of kids,

like she did,

there were times where I felt like she did love them.

She was just a stressed out mom,

trying to keep her life together.

And like there's moments when I always love my kids.

There's moments when they don't,

where they definitely stress me out

and I would like to be away from them.

Like that's normal.

So I, I, I totally agree with that.

But then yeah, like then why did they like get to keep

these kids in the woods for 18 years?

Like that was so weird.

It took them that long.

Like, well, Clementine said she'd been trying

for so long to like get the kids,

but it, it took that long.

Well, it took that long.

And also like Clementine, like you also have siblings

there who like you, then Clementine like should have gone

like visited more and like tried to help more.

Yeah.

Or like just take them Clementine.

Could take them.

I mean, you guys obviously all escaped the first time.

Yeah.

With like no repercussions.

Like take the other ones.

Yeah.

Clementine, I would, I would like to tell all from

Clementine.

Me too.

I just, we only had Natalie's POV.

And I think that's.

She was unreliable.

She was also an unreliable narrator

because sometimes I think we didn't know what she said

out loud and what she didn't.

I think she said more things out loud

than what we realized because I felt like that conversation

that her mom, which her mom was like, you're just so mean.

Like you just need to be nice.

And like, I think as readers it's like,

she doesn't seem that mean.

Or even at the beginning.

Yeah, that and like at the beginning of the book

where she runs into her like old high school friend

from at Target and she's like, this girl's thinking this.

She's so jealous of me.

She thinks, oh, she's so miserable.

Like look at her.

She named her daughter Zoe.

That's such a stupid name.

Like she's so miserable.

And I'm like, okay.

No, actually like this chick.

I think her name was Vanessa.

Just sounds like, like me.

Like she just sounds like a regular girls.

Like taking her daughter to Target

who doesn't really think about you that often.

Who maybe thinks it's cool that like,

that maybe you're an influencer

or maybe has a preconceived notion.

You'd be like, you are projecting so much onto this person.

And she would do the same thing to Rena.

Like she has not spoke, spoken to Rena,

doesn't know anything about Rena.

And she's like, oh, I bet Rena's in a miserable,

you know, apartment right now.

And she's an intern.

Like we actually didn't know Rena's life path.

It was all Natalie's perception of maybe what's going on.

So we actually don't know a lot.

No, we don't.

She was an unreliable narrator,

which I think makes, gives it a lot of nuance,

which I think is why it's a book that you think about a lot.

Yeah.

Because we don't know everything.

And maybe that's what makes it good.

Like I don't know what makes a good book

because I don't read that much.

I'm like, yes, I listened to the whole thing.

And after it, I was like, huh.

But I wasn't like, wow, that was awesome.

Like I was kind of left disappointed.

Yeah, see, I was not.

But I think it's just because I,

I've read a lot of bad books lately.

Could be.

Where I was just like, this was really fascinating.

We didn't talk about, do you think that Natalie

actually like essayed?

What's her name?

Yeah, no.

No.

No, I don't think so either.

I thought that whole storyline was kind of dumb.

No.

Yeah.

And the kid was like, is that why you don't enjoy it?

And it was like, that's not what happened.

No, there was nothing that led us to believe

that she would do that.

And again, I just-

She was six months pregnant.

She was just raging.

She had-

She was raging.

She, I'm telling you, maybe it's because I'm pregnant.

If someone slept with my husband

and then said the series of things that she said to her

after that point, after my husband also just told me,

I'm going to leave you and our five,

while you're pregnant with our fifth child

to go be with this girl.

Like, yeah, I would probably do something

that I regret as well.

Like, but what I wanted to do is get me ready to,

you know, essay someone like-

But I guess that's, but I feel like in assault

would have just, maybe people would have understood it more.

Cause I'm with you.

I think everyone could have been like, yeah, I get it.

But, okay, not the violence is ever the answer,

but yeah, it's, but once it's an essay,

then it's a whole different level.

But no, I did not read that and think that.

I think it was just unfortunate timing

that she was in the middle of getting dressed

when she said all of these things.

Yeah.

Yeah, that was so crazy.

And I was kind of like waiting for Natalie

to get the chance to like have her rebuttal of like,

no, that's not how it happened.

So maybe, but maybe that is how it, I don't know.

I don't know.

That's not how I read it, but it was interesting

of just like how quickly someone's life

and also their family's lives was shut down.

Which is actually kind of scary because like to me,

that is not what happened.

And someone said that that happened.

And then Natalie's life was ruined.

Her father in law's political era was ruined.

Like everything was ruined because of a claim.

Well, that's what it's created at Clementine was like,

I'm still in contact with Shannon.

It's like, that woman ruined your family's life.

That feels predatory.

On Shannon's part.

Yeah, and like, yeah.

And then I didn't like how.

You're just gonna like tell this girl,

like your mom's terrible, like you need to run away.

Like, you know all these things, Shannon,

and you're not doing it,

but you're not doing anything to try and get Natalie help.

I'm kind of with you.

I don't really think we got enough of any potential abuse

for the older kids.

Because even Natalie was like.

Maybe just so part of my mind

while I was listening to the beginning half is

I'm thinking it's ballerina farm.

So I am thinking like they're,

these kids are gonna come from a well off family.

Like they have nannies, like they're fed,

they're taken care of.

Like I didn't know that their mom was crazy,

was going through all this mental stuff.

Well, and there was that one scene

when like Caleb came in and he's like,

hey, Clementine says she hasn't eaten dinner yet.

And now it's like it's almost ready.

And it was like nine PM.

Yeah, okay, that's true.

Yeah, that's not good.

No.

And then she like looked and like,

okay, good, the baby was there.

So like that was, I think not.

Yeah.

That was not the best scene.

But also it was Shannon's,

who's the one who told them to get in the content.

Natalie was like, no, they don't like to be in the videos.

And she's like, let's just try.

Yes.

Kind of hate Shannon.

I know, think that's a resounding.

I hate Shannon.

I think Caleb is actually the worst.

The worst, horrible.

Really need to actually dig into that a lot more.

So, no.

And like he kind of like,

like slapped her and essayed her.

So, yeah.

Let's not forget those like,

like those were crazy.

And he was just like such,

he's just was like so stupid.

Like I just couldn't handle his stupidity.

Yeah.

But overall, I'm happy I went on the journey.

Like I think the movie, I think it'll be a good movie.

Yeah, again, I'm happy.

I'm happy I went on the journey

because it's good conversation.

Like I could talk about this book forever,

like for so long.

And so, that's why I think there's,

there, it's a good, it's something to read

and something to have read

and something to be able to talk about

because everyone, talk to anyone about it.

And you can talk, there's a lot of tangents to go down.

We didn't even talk about them all.

And I don't think we should.

No, I think I'm done.

But yeah, it was really good.

Okay, and so that's gonna be our episode, you guys.

Yeah.

I would consider doing another book club book with you,

but not for a while.

Okay.

Because I have my other book club

and we're reading Project Hail Mary this week,

or this month.

I tried listening to that one.

I did not like it.

It's a 16 hour audio book.

I know.

I was so, Maddie and I started it

when we drove to Texas one time

because mom loved it.

Mom loved it.

Mom says you just don't listen to it twice.

Maddie liked it.

I found myself bored on a 10 hour drive listening to it.

I wish you wouldn't have told me that.

But mom loved it and Maddie liked it, so.

Books are so personal.

And like me and mom are learning,

me and mom do not have the same taste in books,

which is very interesting.

Well, anyway, I've chosen out of all my book club books,

I have the two lowest rated scores my picks have been,

which is really embarrassing.

Oh, that's tough.

It's so tough.

It's really embarrassing.

That's tough.

And what a good book that I read was

that mom told me to read.

Let me look it up.

Cause this one like,

I feel like your book club girls would like.

Tonya, they're such readers though.

Like they don't have a priority point.

Well, they might have read it.

That's the problem.

Let's see.

Oh gosh, sorry, Maddie and I share an audible

and he just is always listening to books.

I'm like,

no, it wasn't the nightingale.

I couldn't listen to that.

That made me too depressed.

Yeah, I've heard that.

Okay, I don't actually don't know what it was, but

Okay.

I'll let you know if I can figure it out.

I've got a couple.

It's not my pick for two more picks.

So this is Claire's pick.

And then it'll be Tara's pick

and then I'll be my pick again.

So I do have some time to think of a good book,

but like now you guys know,

if you're, if you're readers,

I hated Theo of Golden and I really liked yesteryear.

Okay.

So what's my book?

If you have my tastes, let me know.

Okay. And that's going to be our episode.

So thank you so much for listening.

And we will talk to you next time.

See you.

Thank you for listening to the carpool podcast

with Kelly and Liz.

Make sure you're subscribed

so you never miss an episode.

And if you enjoyed riding with us,

tell everybody you know,

there's room in the car for everyone.

Jeep Wrangler

Ford Bronco

trail climb

Toyota A90

About this episode

Original notes