The Drive Towards Tomorrow: Unveiling the Economics of EVs

The Drive Towards Tomorrow: Unveiling the Economics of EVs In Wheel Time Podcast: Your Go-To Automotive Talk Show · Aug 15, 2023

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Welcome to another In Wheel Time podcast, a 30 minute mini version of the In Wheel Time car show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11am, central From Studio A inside the world famous sugar shack in Texas, usa.

It's the In Wheel Time car talk show.

We'll look at the upcoming events calendar.

Mars Reviews the new Mercedes-Benz G colon E, sometimes known as the GL E 450.

Plus, you'll hear the stories making automotive news headlines Howdy, along with David Ainslie who is filling in for the COVID infection.

It like Mars Conrad DeLong who's taking a quick break outside.

You know what that's about.

We always need more, jeff Zika, we do.

I'm Don Armstrong, glad you could join us today.

Let's continue on our quest for economic knowledge.

Shall we?

Yeah, well, I mean we had the end of facts later on.

I'm not prepared for that.

Well, I'm not either, because I really don't know what to ask.

Shay Manowar, good morning.

Good morning, guys hey crew, thanks so much for joining us.

I'm sorry.

What were you going to say?

I was saying.

I mean, I remember our CEO, patrick Anderson, was over last year, I believe, and then he reminded me of what the great crew you guys are.

Well, thank you very much.

We appreciate that you could pick a calendar up on your way out.

Yeah, calendar.

Jeff had a feature on calendars and all of the pictures of every month of the calendar had an electric car or some kind of car that was on fire.

So there you go.

There's that, yeah.

No, it's not just the car's, the entire ship.

Now it is.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

So let's talk about the actual cost to have a vehicle that has a gasoline engine in it versus a comparable car on the EV side.

How do those things play out when it comes to the actual cost?

That it's cost?

I go to the grocery store and I fill up my tank with gasoline once a week and it costs me 40 bucks.

How does that compare to an EV?

Look, there are a lot of inputs that go into the way we calculate fuel costs and the most important factor as of this point is when we compare the costs, the size of the infrastructure that fuels these vehicles EVs and ICE vehicles and trying to combustions play a big role.

So if you're going to a grocery store and you see a number of gas stations to fuel a car, compared to when you have an EV and trying to figure out where those charging stations are, these inputs do matter.

And then, as of right now, based on infrastructure that we have, for typical Americans it favors internal combustion engines that we typically be driving for decades now.

So many of the segments that we look at, be it entry price, be it mid-price, be it luxury price, it tends to favor those drivers who are driving internal combustion engine cars, compared to EV, and that's what we have been noticing every quarter, and if we do every year, we look at that too.

And then it also depends on the gas prices, energy prices and other factors too.

So, but that's changing every quarter now that you're looking at new EV miles coming in and how the gas price, energy prices are playing out.

So I know that I have got to change my way of thinking, because I'm old school and all I know is price per gallon and how many miles I can go on a gallon of gasoline.

That's my basic.

Yeah, is there anybody that's doing that calculation for the consumer cost per mile of operation, not price per gallon or anything but cost per mile of operation, because that's got to be.

The final comparison is how much does it cost me to operate an EV per mile?

How much does it cost me to operate an ICE engine for a mile?

Yeah, so we have been doing it since 2021,.

Anderson Economic Group and we have been advising the auto industry stakeholders for nearly 25 plus years, and then a couple of years ago, we started looking at some of the data that directly impacts how the fuel costs play out for consumers, for instance, the entry price cars.

Look at EVs or ICE.

When we look at the data for the first half of the year, we found that if you're driving an entry price like Hyundai or Toyota or Ford, you're paying about 9.78

per 100 miles compared to when you drive an EV.

That goes up a little bit.

What that means is that if you're relying on an EV, you might end up paying a little bit more out of pocket for about 100 per per 100 miles driven.

What that means is that maybe you're driving a car that is depending on infrastructure or that relies on infrastructure that is not there yet.

It doesn't exist right.

Yeah, and then we have seen a lot of positivity around it.

There are a lot of positive factors playing a part.

I mean, we have been looking at how consumers would benefit from and increase the infrastructure.

Yeah, and there's a lot of negatives too, because you get to a lot of these charging locations and they don't work.

Or they've got eight plug-in places and seven of them don't work and there's a line of 15, 20 cars for the one that does, and I know they're trying to increase the number of charging stations around the country.

It seems like Tesla is doing the best job of it, but not everybody can charge at a Tesla charging station.

And not everybody can afford a Tesla, let alone charging it.

Yeah, Well, I will tell you that one of the factors for me is and I've said this from the beginning is that sure is a whole lot easier for me to go and get gasoline in my car, even though that it's empty and it has a 15-gallon tank.

It takes me about three minutes to put 15 gallons worth of gas in my car, as opposed to, yeah, getting an 80% charge on my EV.

That's going to take me at least 30 minutes out of my day.

I don't have time for that.

Plus, I've got to find a place that I can get an EV charge if it's away from the house, and I've only got 110 volts going to the car overnight.

And then there's the guy, the guy in Canada that just made all the news.

He went out and bought his $115,000 lightning and then spent like $12,000 putting in a level two charger at his house and a level two charger at work and then he was trying to make a cross country though it's cross Canada, I'll give you that Trip and about halfway through the trip he said forget this and got rid of his lightning and bought an ice-powered vehicle and finished his trip because there was just no infrastructure within Canada

and I don't really believe there's a great enough infrastructure in the United States to make those cross country trips efficiently.

But, Shay, I'm sure that you know all of this and the fact that the matter is and I read this all the time I haven't actually seen it, but there are more and more charging stations every day coming online and from the rate that they're going with the charging stations, that eventually it's going to catch up to the need and it's going to be kind of a wash in that area.

I think that that's that's a pretty good point and I think that what happened?

I mean I've been seeing those in probably more around urban communities.

Of course, yes, I've been traveling a lot lately.

I go to I was in Arizona and then New York and I do see that in densely populated urban communities you do see that infrastructure.

But then when we look at an overall EV transition, we're not just nitpicking certain communities, we're talking about the entire country as a whole and that's where I believe the transition would might look different for certain regions, different certain states and even within states, for instance Michigan.

I mean a lot of the Michigan is based on tourism.

I mean it's a state that is, even though densely populated, around Detroit, but then a lot of folks coming into Michigan, they travel up north and then you looked at the charging infrastructure in the upper peninsula of Michigan and there were hardly any.

What that means is a family, for instance, family like myself who have a taller.

I mean if I'm planning to go on a trip, even if I'm an EV, I may decide to still take my minivan, that I know, that if something happens, I don't have to worry about figuring out how to charge my car so that I can bring my family back home, and these are the things that kind of play out in consumer psyche and we do see that every quarter when we look at the sales data I was looking at I mean, I look at data nearly every day and I do see that some of even some of the popular domestic brands, such as Ford

, mac E, had few good quarters and the numbers went down.

So that doesn't mean that when you launch a new EV model the sales gonna pick up right away.

I need to see if my neighbors is driving that car and then I need to hear what the stories they have and then if they're having an issues, and I at this point of time, a typical American, do not see their neighbors left or right driving the EV.

Once that happens, we would see more like we would see a culture that start to embrace EV from a consumer perspective, not just from and then, on top of that, how much of the EV infrastructure is being supported by the US taxpayer when the government's trying to force EVs on everybody.

So they're taking money from everybody to push them into the electric vehicle category.

And at some point that's got to shut down as well, because you know, I'd like to believe we only have so much money the government can give away.

They haven't figured that out in Washington DC yet because they continue to just give away without any consequence, but at some point that's got to stop that the government's funding the infrastructure, rebuild of the EV charging stations.

You know what my my understanding is at the end of the day, all the costs that we talk about, at the end of the day it's paid by consumers.

I mean, if you look at the average transaction price of a new vehicle, before around pandemic it was about like $35,000 a unit.

Now it's about touching $50,000 a unit.

So and something that your previous guest was talking about I mean, it's not that you decide that you're going to buy an, even regardless who's paying it or how it's getting subsidized.

At the end of the day, if your financial needs are not able to meet the requirements of an EB purchase, you're not going to buy it.

Or even if you buy it, you also have to look at the time cost that's needed to learn about the new technology and you think if it's a good fit for the family or not.

So these are the things that I believe consumers tend to rely on Much before they decide if the government has any part to play or how manufacturers are thinking about.

The transition, at the end of the day, is 1 of the big ticket items that people, when decide to purchase.

They look at their budget constraints, they talk about it with their spouses, they look at the family structure and then for structure around their neighborhood.

For example, not everybody live in a nice garage or in a nice subdivision.

You have apartments where you're not.

You don't have much control over how to park, where to park and type of infrastructure around the parking lot, and I do see that, at least in Michigan, a lot.

I mean, I live very close to a college campus and if we need to push that transition, I do not see many new, newer generation.

They may be able to afford an EV or have an infrastructure where they can charge a car and still go to school.

So these are the few things that play a big role and I can always remind myself about how I start to buy new cars or use cars when I was in college and then in my twenties and looking at the credit score, it took me years to get to that ZN 50 range.

To be honest.

Yeah, Well, I will tell you that I did read something here just recently about the early adopter kind of theory.

That is proven fact.

You come out with a new car, there's going to be that group of people that are all going to go and buy that car.

Let's just take a Corvette Z06, for instance.

There's one and with just the C8 Corvette, the brand new Corvette sales out the Wazoo.

People lined up for them, paying over MSRP by a whopping amount of money.

Well, that's kind of trailed off now that the car has been in the market for a few years.

And the same thing is going to hold true with the Z06.

Any other kind of specialty cars that Detroit comes out with or any global manufacturer comes out with and I think that there has been an upsurge in the EV take home rate, if you will in the past well, few years.

As a new one to announce.

Right, and as the availability becomes more and more, that seems to have trailed off, and the Mustang Mach-E is a perfect example of that.

It's known fact that sales are down from what they originally were when the car came on the market, and so I think that there's always going to be that segment.

Now you know oh, I got a brand new EV.

I work with a guy.

He went out and bought a new EV a couple of years ago.

He loves it, swears by it.

He does take it back and forth to San Antonio on occasions, but not always Right.

It's mainly a commuter car for him to go from the apartment back to the tour and it works for him that way, and but that is a.

That is a hefty price to pay for a commuter car.

When you can buy a commuter car let's say, for instance, an entry level car that has a high mileage rating 30, 40 miles per gallon to take back and forth to work and you're not really too concerned about the luxury aspect of it, you want to save money going back and forth to work, so that is all, I think, eventually going to balance itself out.

They're coming out with new, brand new EVs that are $200,000 and more.

These new manufacturers Rivian, for example- right Cadillac just announced the Celeste Celeste.

Yeah, that's going to start at $230,000, which I recommend one for everyone, everyone, I think it should get one.

Barry Barra still makes $29 million.

You know I was up there.

We voted her a new raise.

That's good.

Well, I know that they had a chance to see some of these models.

I mean, in Detroit there's an auto show that happens every year.

Yes, it's amazing.

I mean I'm glad that it was back after a little break because of the COVID and I said, and so there were quite a few EVs on display, such as Chevy Econox EV, and it looked very nice, even though I was not able to go and sit in the car I mean, you can sit in those ICE vehicles but not in EV when they were displayed, but I mean it did capture the audience's attention, I must say.

But then, going back to the point that you know what, we need more crossovers in EV segment.

There's not enough right now, mackie, and then there are a few others too, but then the big three needs to pump up more crossovers and even trucks, because those are the two most popular segments that we've been seeing for nearly four or five years in terms of number of units sold.

Well, I will tell you that, believe me, the car manufacturers are well aware of your thought and they are pumping them out as quickly as they can from the blueprints and getting them up than the manufacturing, but the price point of the ones that they're releasing are all 100,000 plus.

You know, look at the Hummer.

And that's what he's talking about.

The lighting is you know you've got to pay top dollar to get one.

My, if I were going to offer anybody a suggestion, I would say if you want the best of both worlds, go and get yourself a hybrid that's got an ICE engine and battery and it's going to go a lot further than it ever has in your life before, and you've got the reliability of an ICE engine and don't have to worry about going and getting a charge.

So there's that.

And that's a pretty good use.

Sorry to cut you guys, but that's a pretty good use story for manufacturers, for instance Toyota.

I mean there is a reason why they're a little behind in terms of big announcements is because they learn a lot, many lessons when they had the hybrid and plug-in hybrid.

So my understanding is, once they decide to add new models in their lineup EV models they may address many of the consumer needs compared to other manufacturers who may not have the luxury of trying out hybrids or plug-in hybrids in the lineup five, six, seven, eight years ago.

And they've proven themselves with the Prius over a long period of time to be a very effective hybrid vehicle.

Shay is great to talk to you.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

You had one more thing to say.

And then having a nameplate.

That's something that stays in consumers' head for a few decades now.

I mean having a nameplate.

It matters a lot, I mean the reason I think that has Corolla in nearly every segment now, from hatchback to sedan, to even crossover, because that's playing consumer psyche and I think this is some of the most important factor that Ford may have realized with Mackie.

But other manufacturers have to look at that too.

Well, shay, it's great to talk to you and we thank you so much for joining us today.

Appreciate you, have a good weekend.

Thank you, shay Manowar, with the Anderson Economic Group.

Okay, time now for the Events Calendar.

Not the cruise in, not the racing, but the Events Calendar.

That would be car shows.

Mustang Club of Houston.

We just talked to Werner.

October Sampson is going to be their fall open car show at Planet Ford in spring.

October 14th is the all British car show at the Butler House of a Gosling Road of 99.

And you know why they chose the Butler House Because there's a big collection of records all around there to move those British cars.

October 28th, the 38th annual Wolf Creek car show and bike in Cold Spring, texas.

Saturday, august 12th is Cypress Cars and Coffee.

They're back to School Drive.

That's tomorrow, actually that's today.

Lone Star Drift round four is August 19th at Motorsports Resort in Angleton.

Saturday, september 16th is the Schuylenberg Take Flight Cruise leaving from Buckees in Waller.

Lone Star Drift round three at the Houston Police Academy is September 23rd.

Then again, you know we talked to the Northside Mustang is having their fall open car show November 4th as well and that'll be at the Bulls Alice Park in New Cane.

And finally, saturday October 28th, oak Turbo Fest in the.

Kareem Shriners in Waco, Texas, All right let's go there.

That'd be a fun little road trip.

All right time out for this hour's car review.

Even though Mr Mars is not with us today in the studio, he managed to supply us with a car review of the Mercedes-Benz G-Colon E, which we think we're deciphering it would be the GLE 450.

So here is Mr Mars with this week's car review.

Recently, I had the opportunity to spend a week behind the wheel of the 2024 Mercedes-Benz GLE 450 Formatic.

Now, the Formatic is a really cool way of saying that this is an all-wheel drive vehicle.

Now, it is a mid-sized luxury SUV that seats five, unless you have the optional third-row package, which we happen to have.

I like five.

I like the extra room for the cargo and stuff in the back, but if you need a little more space, there isn't optional to get it.

In fact, we had several different package options on this vehicle, such as the night package option and what that does.

It gives the black grille trim, the side mirrors are blacked out, the roof rails, we got a little black on the wheels to kind of give it a little more sporty look.

In fact, we also have the AMG live exterior.

Now, this is some AMG styling pieces that are brought over onto this vehicle as part of an option package.

We had the LED lighting, so we got LED up front, we got the tail lights, we got the turn signals, we had the soft closed doors, which I thought was really cool, worked well, particularly with the acoustic package that we had.

Add some deadening sound on the glass, as well as extra insulation, had a panoramic sunroof and we had those 21-inch AMG black wheels on it that are really set it off with the gray paint that we have Now on the interior.

We get into some really nice stuff in here.

We had leather seating surfaces and again we had that third row option.

The front seats are heated and ventilated and we had the second row and then, of course, the third row.

But up front in the technology we had the 12.3-inch

instrument display Nice, big, a lot of room there to see a lot of stuff.

But we also had the 12.3-inch

center touchscreen where.

So it kind of blended together really nice to make it look like one long piece.

And you add that with the Burrmeister surround sound audio and the wireless charging system and the wireless phone connections, there's a lot of technology in this vehicle, to say the least.

Now, to keep it going down the road.

There's a couple of different options, but we had the 3.0

inline turbo engine.

Now this produces 375 horsepower and 369 pound-feet of torque.

It's backed by a 9-speed automatic.

Now the EPA says you should be looking for 19 in the city, 26 on the highway combined, 22 on average Now I kind of skewed things to the highway side 408.9

miles in the days that I had it, so a lot of it was out on highway but it averaged down to 21.5

, and I really think if you drove it like you were after mileage you could really match, maybe even exceed, that combined mileage rate.

But it does have plenty of acceleration, I will tell you that, and the ride and the handling, particularly out on the highway, and it provides a nice quiet space.

Like I said, it has the acoustic package, so it's got acoustic glass on it, it's got some extra insulation in it.

It really makes for a nice ride and setting it up to where you can drive it a long time.

Now the base model for a GLE is actually the 350-4Matic, so it's at $6,300.

But if you're looking for the base trim price on the GLE 450, you're looking at $69,500.

As tested with the option packages that we had, $89,680.

Now if you're looking for something to compare that to in that mid-sized luxury category, you might look over at the Audi Q8 at 74 or 4 starting.

The BMW X5 starts down around $65,200, and you can even look at the Genesis GV80 in that same class.

It starts at $55,800.

So overall mid-size SUV, even with the third row option in it seating seven people.

This is a very nice vehicle and if you're looking in that mid-size category and this might be one you want to consider, and that's my review of the 2024 Mercedes-Benz GLE 450-4Matic.

Thank you, Mr Mars.

It makes us miss you even more.

No, it doesn't.

It does not.

I miss you, mike.

Yes, feel better, yeah, feel better.

Miss you like a rock in the bottom of my shoe.

Wow, wow.

You know when.

I got in here I figured Conrad looks a little tired.

I said no, he's just ugly, is that?

Thanks, hey, I've got some recalls to tell you about Driver's airbag in Flater may explode on the Buick Verano, chevy Camaro, chevy Sonic and the Chevy Volt for 2013.

Vendor issues.

Vendor issues the oil pump assembly may cause a fire.

Thermal event Thermal event in the Hyundai, Elantra, Kona, Palisade, Sonata and Tuxon for 2023 and 2024.

That'll stop people from stealing them.

There's a recall on a Porsche.

It's not much, but hazard warning lights may fail on the Porsche Cayenne, the Cayenne Coupe, the Cayenne S, the Cayenne S Coupe, the Cayenne Turbo GT for the 2024 model year.

The oil pump assembly may cause a fire in the Kia Seltos Soul and Sportage for 23 and 24 model years.

The Kia Niro for 2017 through 2022.

Kia Niro engine compartment fire and the Nero PHEV 2018 through 2022.

I remember Nero was busy fiddling while Rome burns.

Oh, it was burned.

Yeah, for your car.

Isn't that the guy that goes pizza pizza.

Isn't that the same guy?

No, that's Caesar.

It was Caesar.

Okay, whatever, I was close with it.

Nero, I think it was shorter.

He was a little shorter.

Yeah, I know some people that have that kind of attitude.

Napoleon complex, that's it.

So that's it for this hour's recalls.

I have some automotive news that we're going to get to, and we've got Conrad's car clinic coming up as well.

I got all of that.

Got all of it.

Now I just have to learn how to turn the page, the right page, and not combine stuff.

Lick your finger, Don.

I know Guess who's in the queue.

Richard Tomlin, the head of the regional SCCA.

Yeah, we see that.

But, more importantly, in this particular talk, we're going to talk about building a car for the 24 hours of lemons.

It's that time of year again, it's not lemons, but it's lemons.

It's that time of year.

So we're going to learn how to build that You're going to donate to C5?

I am not, but you know it's not worthy.

But I'm sure that not Conrad Richard Tomlin can come up with some really fine cars for us, of this no doubt.

I mean, is it any different really than a destruction, derby?

It just lasts a little bit longer.

It's an endurance.

You just destroy it by driving it, because you brought a POS to race.

That's right.

With low oil pressure.

Send some stickers of in wheel time put on the car.

Hey, we've got more of the in wheel time car talk show coming your way Right after quick break.

Stay with us, Richard.

Everyone at the Tail Pipes and Tacos cruise in at the Lupi Tortilla Tex-Max and Katie.

Thank you for participating in the best cruise in around and look forward to seeing you again.

You'll hear about the next cruise in date right here on in wheel time.

Next time you're in the West Houston energy corridor area, be sure and stop in at the original Lupi Tortilla Tex-Max at I-10 and Highway 6 or the Katie location on the Grand Parkway at Kingsland Boulevard when passing through Beaumont or College Station.

Stop in and have Lupi's award winning beef fajitas and frozen margaritas.

There's always a celebration at Lupi Tortilla.

Lupi Tortilla founder Stan Holden, his wife Sheila, are winning racers on the NHRA drag racing circuit and have a collection of hot rods and classics that everyone appreciates.

Look for them at the next Tail Pipes and Tacos cruise in.

The date will be announced soon and will once again be held at the Lupi Tortilla Tex-Max on 99 in Kingsland Boulevard, just south of I-10 and Katie.

We'll give you all the details right here on the in wheel time car talk show and online Donations benefit God's garage.

We'll see you then.

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About this episode

Exploring the economics of electric vehicles (EVs) versus internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles, this episode delves into the costs associated with owning and operating both types of cars. The discussion highlights the current advantages of ICE vehicles due to established infrastructure and fuel costs. Insights from Shay Manowar of the Anderson Economic Group reveal that while EVs are gaining traction, many consumers still face challenges with charging infrastructure and costs per mile. The episode also touches on the evolving market for EVs and the importance of consumer perception in the transition to electric mobility.

Audi Q8 BMW X5 Buick Verano Chevrolet Camaro Chevrolet Corvette Chevrolet Sonic Chevrolet Volt Ford F-150 Lightning Ford Mustang Genesis GV80 Hyundai Elantra Hyundai Genesis Hyundai Kona Hyundai Palisade Hyundai Sonata Kia Niro Kia Seltos Kia Soul Kia Sportage Mercedes-Benz GL AMG Mercedes-Benz GLE Porsche Cayenne Toyota Corolla Toyota Prius

Original notes

On this episode on In Wheel Time Car Talk will have us cruising down the highway of tomorrow as we explore the world of electric vehicles (EVs) and their impact on our wallets. We’re talking with Shay Manawar from Anderson Economic Group to tackle a cost comparison between EVs and internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles. Together, we'll navigate the twists and turns of energy prices, charging station availability, and the tick-tock of the charging clock. Learn how these factors rev up the costs and the current state of infrastructure for these vehicles.

On this episode on In Wheel Time Car Talk, we will start cruising down the highway of tomorrow as we explore the world of electric vehicles (EVs) and their impact on our wallets. We’re talking with Shay Manawar from Anderson Economic Group to discuss a cost comparison between EVs and internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles. We'll navigate the twists and turns of energy prices, and charging station availability. Learn how these factors run up the costs and the current state of infrastructure for these vehicles.

We also take a look under the hood of the challenges and considerations that are part of the transition to EVs. We’ll discuss how consumer behavior, EV infrastructure, and government subsidies impact this shift. Shay points a spotlight on the financial and time costs that come into play when purchasing an EV and the role of early adopters.

In our Feature segments, we have review of the Mercedes-Benz GLE 450 4Motion. We also take a look at the Calander of Events - from the Mustang Club of Houston's October Car Show to Lone Star Drift Round Four.

Remember, can find us on your favorite podcast provider or at InWheelTimeCarTalk.com!----

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In Wheel Time Podcast: Your Go-To Automotive Talk Show

In Wheel Time Podcast | Automotive talk with Don Armstrong, Michael Marrs, and Jeff Dziekan

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31:11

Mercedes-Benz Mercedesbenz G

Ford F-150 Lightning

Chevrolet Corvette

Ford Mustang

Toyota Prius

Toyota Corolla

Gle 450

Audi Q8

BMW X5

Genesis GV80

Hyundai Genesis

Chevrolet Camaro

Buick Verano

Chevrolet Volt

Chevrolet Sonic

Hyundai Palisade

Hyundai Sonata

Hyundai Kona

Hyundai Elantra

Porsche Cayenne

Kia Soul

Kia Sportage

Kia Seltos

Kia Niro

About this episode

Original notes