The Ferrari-fication Of Porsche, Break The Cycle, Used EV Choice | Episode 1,042

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Well, hello again.

Welcome back to the podcast.

Happy Tuesday.

Thrilled to have you with us.

We do have our latest video coming up later this week that

is the Kia K4 hatchback versus the Honda Civic, which we also

think is its primary competitor.

So it's cool to see Kia actually doing

a hatchback version of the K4.

It's much better looking.

It's a wagon.

It's a wagon, everyone.

It is a wagon.

It's a wagon.

They're just toe in the pool to see how people

like it will customers buy.

We're not calling it a wagon, but it's a wagon.

Yes.

So we're doing that later this week.

It's like Toyota with their crown.

Yeah.

Yeah, the crown signia.

It's not a wagon.

It's a wagon.

It's an SUV.

Well, also interesting that you bring that up because they

introduced that right at the minute Subaru goes,

that's enough when I'm doing wagons.

Yeah, no more wagons.

We're doing SUVs because that's what everybody buys.

I just really want the wagon thing to come around.

Anyway, let's hope for the best.

So that piece comes out later this week on Thursday.

So hope you watch that.

Welcome back to the podcast with all of the things.

The news, three car debates, some questions.

There's a lot to run through, so we're going to dive right in.

Yeah, we're leaning heavily into the car debates again.

We're getting a lot of them.

It's great.

It's good.

Thank you guys for that.

It's really good.

Let's start with news up front.

Does Porsche know their customer

or did they know their customer?

Did they know their customer or what?

You and I are going to be split on this, I think.

Maybe.

We'll see.

We haven't talked about it at all.

No, we haven't.

You're talking about the new GT3 convertible 911.

It is the GT3 SC, so there is a slash between SC.

So it is not super Carrera, because I thought SC,

super Carrera from the 70s, no.

It is Sport Cabriolet because they had the ST, the Sport

Touring.

This is a GT3 Cabriolet.

You might think it's a GT3 RS because of the GT3 RS

bodywork, the composite panels.

Sure, OK.

But in reality, it does not have the RS engine.

It's got the 502 horsepower engine with the manual,

just like a GT3 with GT3 RS bodywork.

And you might think that Porsche decides, huh,

don't have too many products in the pipeline.

What should we do?

What will customers buy?

What will our customers just glom onto next?

Let's take a Cabriolet and turn it into a GT3

with a GT3 motor and all the GT3 bits underneath,

but GT3 RS bodywork on it, the new buckets,

and carbon everything.

So it's lightweight.

Interestingly, this is only 3,300 pounds, just over.

So it's lighter weight mainly because of the carbon panels

and the magnesium wheels and the lighter brakes

and all the jazz, all right?

Keep trying to sell me.

Keep going.

But I think I'm not a convertible kind of a guy.

I'm not into convertibles.

I don't think you really aren't too much of there.

I mean, the targ on your release is.

The perfect day at the perfect time,

it's the perfect thing.

Short of that, it annoys the crap out of me.

Yes, I don't want to.

I don't want a convertible, but customers will buy.

Maybe they needed, I don't think they needed this car

to be the car you have to buy before you buy the super car.

It's just going to be car for sale.

So all that aside, it seems like just parts

and a new model and we'll kick it out the door

and customers will buy,

but are there car companies do this too?

I agree.

Everybody does this, BMW for example.

We've got the M2, but then we've got the M2 competition.

Oh, well, that's not good enough.

We've got the M2 CS now and we just keep adding parts.

Of course.

And it keeps getting better and it keeps,

I'm surprised there's not a CS Cabriolet

and like let's extract all the dollars out of the.

Porsche does the special editions more than anybody.

Yeah.

That doesn't surprise me.

So my issue, everybody does this.

You haven't talked about the primary thing

that turns this for me.

Okay, well, I'll touch on price very quickly.

That'll get us there.

Let's get there.

And then we'll follow that rabbit trail for a minute.

I barely flicked through the configurator

and you're curious enough now too.

So I went to the configurator and I've just

select a paint, no Sanderwush, no special,

it does normal stuff.

It's a quasi normal stuff.

I picked Gentian blue because I like Gentian blue.

I know you do, yes.

So I picked that and I was just, I barely try.

I didn't really try and just, oh, that sounds interesting.

Click there and I didn't dive into all the really,

the minutia of what you can do.

And I got to 299,000 without trying.

Of course you didn't.

I didn't put serious effort behind it.

Doesn't it start at 250?

It starts at 250, 259 and I just casually clicked

a few buttons like that.

Looks interesting and I probably want those seats

and yeah, maybe the different color interior

and it's $299,000.

Yes.

Dollars.

Yes.

Trust me, I did not dive into the sub menus

in the minutia.

No, if you try, you're gonna break 300

without much effort.

This was 299 without trying.

Is this the one that you configured by the way?

No, this is just press photos from Porsche.

It's beautiful.

Yeah, I get it.

It's a great color.

I like the red with the gold wheels.

It looks cool.

It looks beautiful.

So I'm thinking, huh, does Porsche know their customers?

What?

People are gonna buy this like crazy.

It's gonna be marked up once again

and let's say they're 350 with all the goodies

and all the stuff and then add whatever premium

on top of that and here we are.

Porsche knows their customer.

But this to me is the latest step

in what I am going to call the Ferrari-fication of Porsche.

This 9-Eleven is a billboard for the problem

as far as I'm concerned.

This 9-Eleven Corridor would be three.

And I'm gonna walk as to why.

They didn't have any products in the pipeline.

I'm gonna walk to why I think that.

What do we do next?

But here's the reality.

Porsche has always been great to drive cars

looking for drivers.

Yeah, yeah.

And they are moving more and more away from that

to looking for people who want branded identification

to go with their special watch and their special shoes.

And yeah, fair.

It is you a little bit.

I do get that.

But they're looking for people that wanna identify

with the brand and may not even care to drive.

Interesting.

And what makes this even more alarming to me about that

is because they make tons of versions of the 9-Eleven.

And I've joked before about being at cars and coffee

when two guys got pretty much identical 9-Elevens

and have a discussion, excited discussion,

about how the stitching on their two cars are different.

And I'm like, you both are driving white 9-Elevens

with brown interiors.

I'm sorry, but difference is not the thing to lead with.

Okay, it's not.

It's you bought the same car as me.

That's the conversation.

But anyway.

And then we're done.

How do you like yours?

Where do you drive it?

What surprised you the most?

Has it been worth it?

These are real conversations.

My stitching's different than yours.

It's not a conversation starter.

But these guys were gone for a while, okay?

So we're headed there.

We're headed with brand identification

with Porsche anyway.

But here's the thing.

They offer 20-something,

almost 30 varieties of the 9-Eleven, okay?

Yeah.

We have a piece coming out that actually,

it actually just came out.

But the time you were watching this,

it just came out on Test Drive last Sunday

where we got to drive Ryan's 992.2 Carrera T,

which is the cheapest way to buy a 9-Eleven

with a manual and it was $160,000.

Yeah, at least, yeah.

My entire car awareness as a person, okay?

Porsches have been expensive,

but they've been aspirational.

They've been the ones that are just out of reach.

Like if I dedicate myself, I could afford a 9-Eleven.

And they keep walking away from that market.

Now I understand they're chasing

where the money is, I get it.

But now into this.

Porsche sells all these 9-Elevens.

The GT3 exists because it is

the hardcore 9-Eleven designed for track.

That was the reason that the GT3 moniker

got established for 9-Elevens

and we've driven the GT3s and they're very cool.

And if you're buying a track car and you have the money,

it's just buy a GT3.

GT3 for class racing rules to meet the rules

that teams could ostensibly buy.

And then Porsche went, huh,

maybe other people would just like to buy this

and drive around on the street.

And if, so seriously, they're right.

If you are buying a car

to take to the race track,

you wanna drive it on roads

and you wanna take it to the race track

and you have money, you just go buy a GT3.

I mean, even though I am not a huge,

like, evangelist of the 9-Eleven,

that's still the answer, okay?

We've driven them, they're brilliant, okay?

They litter track days all over Europe.

They litter track days for hooked on driving

because they are brilliant, okay?

But now you take the GT3, the hardcore version

and you from there make a,

well, what if I don't wanna drive it on track?

Well, first off, I gotta stop you.

It's the track car.

The GT3 exists to be the track car.

What if I wanna buy a GT3

because essentially I'm preening,

I'm peacocking all over the place

but I don't wanna drive it on track?

Well, then we'll make you a GT3 touring.

Yes, yes.

And then while everybody is buying the GT cars

because essentially that's bragging rights,

why don't we make a GT3 convertible?

We have lost our way into a sea of people

that are just buying the brand like Ferrari.

And I know that I'm getting heated.

I know that Ferrari has done this forever successfully

and I also know to Porsche's credit,

this is where the big money is.

True, you go where the money's at.

But I look at this and I just go,

you're walking away from what you've been.

I think about all those ads in the 80s

and all the ads in the 80s,

the black and white ones with the sexual innuendo

and the cars that are airborne and that kind of stuff.

Porsche was going, you like to drive,

come drive our cars.

And they're going, you'd like to show off,

we'll sell you the track car that's been softened

from a track car and given a convertible,

but you get to say GT3.

Oh, and by the way, $300,000.

At least.

If I have $300,000, I am not buying a 911.

I'm not.

With the possible exception

of I'm only buying a GT3 for actual tracking.

I was gonna say I'd buy a GT3 for track use,

but yes.

But the reality is $300,000 for a peacocking car,

you're not buying a 911.

I'll buy a used McLaren.

I'll buy a used Ferrari.

I'm sorry.

Two of something or four of something.

Yes, I'll pull up in my Amira very happily

and have cash on the table for a bunch of other cars.

And please don't misunderstand me.

I am not claiming that my Amira drives better

than everything.

I'm not.

I'm not claiming it's the best car ever.

I'm not.

It was wildly expensive.

I can't believe I own $100,000 automobile.

But I also don't think

that the average person spending three times that

on a convertible track car, okay?

Convertible track car.

All right, that's what you did.

You bought a convertible track car.

No one in history has designed a track car

and go, let's make it convertible.

Just for fun.

Not if they can't.

They wanna make a hard top for all the reasons, okay?

For all the track driving, so convertible track car.

The person buying the convertible track car

is not having a better time than I am in my Amira.

True, true.

And I wanna argue that it doesn't drive better.

Different, yes, better.

I doubt it.

Depends on your taste.

I mean, you could argue.

Depends on your taste, absolutely.

And I am a mid-engine guy, for sure.

For sure.

One could argue that a Miata is a convertible track car.

Yes, you could.

You could.

I mean, if that's what you were looking for,

a convertible track car, why spend $300,000?

Okay, fair.

Fair, fair.

Miata still, still is the answer.

Do everything.

Convertible track car.

And if you really are gonna track your Miata,

you're gonna put a cage in it

to take the structural rigidity and convertible away.

And if you put a cage in this, why not buy a GT3?

Yes.

I have read in multiple places

that GT3s are primarily street-driven.

Of course they are.

Of all the, yes.

Because look how, whatever, finish that sentence.

There is a huge-

Fast I Am, cool-looking I Am,

how much money I have, finish the sentence.

There is a huge contingent of buyers

and also people that do media in LA

that brag about buying a GT3 RS,

the most track-y of the track cars to take to coffee.

Yes.

No.

That exists?

That exists.

And Porsche's leaning in

because they need the money and I get it.

And your customers are there-

Oh, they need the money.

And those guys have money and I get it.

It is just becoming a bragging rights brand.

And it makes me sad because I look at Porsche as,

literally I look at Porsche as the every man's exotic car

that can run with anybody.

And now it's just becoming another exotic car brand.

$300,000 for your track convertible is absurd.

It's absurd.

And that's just to begin with.

It's interesting about your point

how people associate with the brand.

How do brands get there over time?

Because I suppose Mazda's up there

but you're enthusiast driver or you're tracking it.

It's not, you're not buying the Mazda jacket

to show off like Mazda.

Sure, yeah.

No, you probably have the car

and you're not buying the Mazda shoes

and the Mazda shot glasses

and going to Mazda world and-

Mazda world.

Mazda world in Dubai.

It's Zoom, Zoom world, Paul.

We're gonna bring back Zoom, Zoom for there.

Yeah, anyway.

I mean, that doesn't exist.

Over here at Ferrari because they are so expensive.

And so on one hand, I'm coin operated.

I see, you go where the money's at.

Any good business, you go where the money's at

and that earns you dollars.

I totally get that.

But on the other hand, I am in full agreement.

Wait, why is just a regular Carrera II convertible

just not as good?

Because you're gonna be doing the same kind

of driving with that car as you are with this car.

It's going to be on the street.

And all the published photos

are on the street from Porsche.

Of course they are.

They're not on a racetrack.

Even though it's a track car.

Theoretically.

But they're not going to take the photo of the convertible.

And if you put a cage in this to put it on track.

And the stakes were made.

You could have just, now here's the only,

and I can't believe I'm saying this,

here's the only potential argument for this car.

To this point, Porsche has now decided

that the only way to get a manual transmission 911

is you buy the Carrera T, which doesn't,

or actually does come convertible now, doesn't it?

The T does convert, yes it does.

Or the GT3.

So you decided you don't want the T convertible.

Well it didn't cost enough money.

I guess.

So you end up jumping here.

Because they aren't offering the Carrera S or GTS

in convertible form with a manual.

So you want to suggest that you like to drive

and you want a manual.

But the Carrera T isn't high enough in the lineup for you.

To me, this has to do with the art world

and photographers whom we've noted

who've created false demand.

It's not false demand.

They create their own demand.

They just say, this is what we're charging

and you have to deal with it.

Yeah, it's just, they've created the demand

kind of out of nowhere,

even though it's built up over the years.

Sure, sure.

And Porsche kind of used to do that,

that the reason their cars got so good

was because they continually tracked

and customers did take them to track.

They were a winning machine, I mean they are.

But then people started to buy it

to be associated with that glory,

that money, that expertise,

that build quality, name a reason.

And I mean, I'm right there.

I admit, I wouldn't buy this car though.

Well, I mean, I admit to being a Lotus fan,

but what I identify myself as a Lotus fan,

that is problematic because am I identifying myself

with racing heritage that no longer exists?

Am I identifying myself with a brand

that's known to have cars that are broken?

What am I identifying myself with?

Right, right.

I like how they drive.

I like how they look.

You're buying what's good.

I like what speaks to me as a driver.

I don't think that the 911 GT,

trying to land the plane here,

I don't think the 911 GT3 convertible exists

because it's the best thing to drive.

It exists because people want to buy the GT track car,

but I'd like it softer please,

mistake one, and convertible while you're at it.

And by the way, $300,000.

It will drive well.

Please don't misunderstand me.

It's gonna drive well.

It's gonna drive great.

But really, this is where we are.

Lamborghini does it, Porsche does it.

The ferrariification of Porsche is where we are.

And it makes me a little bit sad.

I see it.

Okay, Porsche, what you need is to bring the Cayman back,

Cayman and Boxster,

and maybe something right underneath that's aspirational.

And it's, see, that would be key.

Crazy light, my Miata light.

Okay, 500 pounds heavier than a Miata.

I'll give you that.

It's 2,800 pounds.

What's the new Porsche 550?

Yeah.

What's that?

You can't load it out.

There's no such thing as stitching.

You can't order stitching on this car.

The seats are sewn together with something.

But alternating stitching is not a thing we're doing here.

You don't even offer that.

And that becomes, wow.

And I mean, they've kind of done it

with a make series with the flat four engine.

Not a GT class racing series.

It's great, but something just for,

you want to do this, you buy the Cayman and Boxster,

the 550.

It's where the 924 and the 44

existed in the lineup forever ago.

What are the entry-level Porsches?

And the entry-level Porsches are now the Cayman

and Boxster at 100 grand, is entry-level.

So where is the one at 50, 60?

We gotta go underneath that.

But does it now degrade the Porsche brand

that's so aspirational?

See, this is the problem.

If, mm, it depends on the perception

that they want to chase.

And I think this is the buyer they want to chase.

They want to chase the Ferrari buyer,

not the enthusiast buyer.

And I will admit, as we see, every one of these,

you know, multi-million dollar bespoke hypercars,

this is where the money is.

This is where the margin is.

But Porsche's always been pretty good with margins.

Even on their, quote-unquote, less expensive cars.

I would just like them to do a salvo for the everyman,

to keep a foot in that world.

I think we're gone.

Moving on to news from Rivian.

It was only like 30 minutes of another rant on Porsche.

I'm sorry, I got carried away.

It's all good.

Rivian, if you don't know, the R2 is coming out.

We're excited to drive that.

But our friend, Jordan Schieffer,

told us about the Block Party.

It's on rivian.com.

They are having a Block Party nationwide in the U.S.,

Venice, Denver, Chicago, Long Island, Atlanta,

Miami, Palo Alto, and Nashville,

to introduce the new R2 to people, to the people.

It's cool.

It's come have food, hear music, hang out.

But the premise here is you need to see this car in real life.

But there's no driving.

It feels like what most brands do for journalists

at a car show, where we get into the car show

before everybody else does and all the cars are open

and you can sit in them and you can open all the doors,

you can try all the stuff.

And then when it's public days,

they put it behind the velvet ropes

or they lock the car or whatever.

They get accessible.

This is what they're doing.

They're gonna have it there, essentially sitting open

because it's electric, it can be all lit up,

everything can, you can play with the menus,

climb in it, see it in real life,

see it in real sunlight, clouds, whatever.

Try all the stuff.

In the forest.

You can't drive it.

Sure.

But also, we're headed so much toward cars,

especially electric cars, being experience-based,

that as long as it drives properly, it doesn't matter.

Car companies have done the short test drive thing

at car shows, you can sign up for the drive.

I don't know that it really tells you too much

plus the drive is super short

because so many people sign up and it's around the block

and you don't really get to experience it.

But this just seems to be putting it out

in front of people, which I love.

And the reason we bring this up is because

I think a lot of other car companies could learn

from this business model.

It still feels start-up-y.

It still feels kind of, you know, the hip and cool,

you know, oh, they're doing different stuff.

But can you imagine Volkswagen doing this

with the next golf?

It's a good idea, yeah.

Volkswagen should pay attention.

A ton of other car companies.

I mean, I think they kind of did with the Buzz,

the ID Buzz van, they kind of had a few roll-out events

and there was the car show thing,

but even that took way too long from the time

everybody saw it to it's finally available.

It was just like, we're so past it now.

This is, in the news, it's ready to go.

It's fresh, it actually will get updates spring 2027

as well for self-driving, but put it in front of people.

What a great idea.

You're touching on another thing

that has grown worse over the time we've been doing this job

and that is the lag time between big flashy announcement

and I can go buy one.

Accurate NSX.

Yes, yes, many, many things.

I feel like car makers need to reduce that lag time

and I think one of the reasons it happened

is because what car makers don't want to have happened

is they don't want to get scooped.

They don't want to get the leak of the new whatever.

They want to be ahead of the leak

so they put the information out much, much further out

so somebody doesn't leak new photos of the whatever

because it's actually going down the assembly line.

That's why it's happened.

But the downside to it is the fact that the new Z car,

great example, people are all excited about a car a year

before it might even show up at their local dealer.

A year before they'll see it in an auto show.

At least.

And in Rivian's case, I'm not saying

that they've perfected it here,

but they've at least reduced the lag time.

They're saying this exists at a time

when you can go order it.

Even if you haven't driven it,

you could go try to purchase one now.

Yeah.

And I think we have to reduce that lag time

because that'll actually sell cars.

You know, on the other hand,

Scout has just announced they're going to increase the time

for their new truck to 2030

before we even get to see the new truck.

So there's that.

I have a buddy who is on the list for Scout.

At the last time we talked about Scout,

he just wrote me privately a text message and said,

am I ever getting a Scout?

And I was like, buddy, I don't know, man,

it does not look good.

We'll see.

Keep posted.

Maybe they'll do the forward thing.

We send you a hammock.

Remember the Bronco?

The Bronco got so delayed,

they started sending people accessories.

A flag, a hammock, a map.

Like, could I have a car, please?

Your Bronco's coming.

No, trust us.

Seriously.

Another hammock to dream about your Bronco.

We had a follower of the show,

actually one of our patrons sent us a photo

of like all the kitschy gear he was set

before his truck showed up.

And the crazy thing is, it was a lot of gear.

The crazy thing is he liked his Bronco enough,

but he ended up having it like six months

and he was like, I'm done.

Which is terrible.

Got a great hammock out of it.

He did get a really nice hammock.

Anyway, branded hammocks are where it is.

News from Ford, they have shattered

the production car ring record.

Once again, it's been a giant contest between

Porsches in there, but it's Corvette and Ford.

It's Chevy and Ford with the Corvette ZR1X

and the Ford Mustang GTD now announced

as a special edition GTD competition.

The competition version, which here it is.

They haven't been clear about what is different,

but it's supposed to be lighter components throughout

and more aero and a little bit more out of the engine,

which was already like 815 horsepower.

So they've cranked everything up

and they're going to sell even more limited.

Here's the thing.

The GTD was not like available as a dealer near you.

They were hard to get already.

This is the even more hard to get,

more rare version of the GTD, the competition.

They are going to sell it to the public,

but we're down to 640 now.

Six minutes and 40 seconds,

which is like nine, almost 10 seconds faster

than the ZR1X, which two sides of the equation.

One, we're down into the bleeding cutting edge

of ring times.

The only thing faster than this is the Mercedes one.

Okay, this has surpassed the Manti Racing 911 GT3.

It's better than the Corvette.

This is the production light.

And here's the thing.

How many Mercedes ones are they going to make?

Two?

I have one of two Mercedes ones.

It's probably about what it's going to be like.

And they're all going to sit in some chic collection

and never ever move.

Right, but corner getting dusty.

So this theoretically, and this,

look, I'll go the other side.

It was just coming down on Porsche.

You can go buy a piece of this

by buying a base Mustang as crazy as it is.

But this will be a $300,000 to $400,000 Mustang.

But it did do 10 seconds faster.

And here's the thing you have to understand about the ring.

The ring is so long.

You and I are not like ring record drivers by any means,

but we've driven it a lot.

A small screw up is seconds difference in your lap.

Yeah, yeah.

So while 10 seconds on any normal racetrack

is like, was somebody asleep in the pit?

10 seconds on the ring is,

you can swing 10 seconds in the same car

on the same day with the same driver.

Yes.

It's not hard to have a 10-second swing on the ring,

but this is more than 10 seconds faster

than their last record,

and truly they have taken it from Corvette.

So what does Corvette do now?

If Corvette surpasses the Mercedes record,

then Mercedes is gonna be like, oh.

We gotta put jets on our car now.

Now what?

Uh-huh, yeah.

But then we're getting into the,

you're right, the bleeding edge of physics.

Yes.

This ring record was set by the Ford Racing

and Multimatic driver, Dirk Muller,

who did the faster, he broke his own ring time.

Uh-huh, sure.

Yeah, yeah, nine or 10 or 11 seconds,

somewhere in there.

But I just read Ford Racing Engineer, Steve Thompson,

drove this car to a time of 649,

faster than Dirk's original time.

Because this time, this car is faster, sure.

Okay, all right, so somebody else

still got faster times out of it.

He's a racing engineer,

and he has driven the ring fewer than 40 laps.

Now, we don't know what SimTime he's had.

Still though, but that does suggest

how really impressive this car is.

Yes, monumentally impressive,

and not to take away anything from Steve,

because I'm sure he's an incredibly fast driver.

I mean, obviously he is,

but a racing engineer with fewer than 40 laps

now doing a 649 with this car.

Under seven minute ring time, yes.

Right, and a true racing driver

doing nine seconds better than that.

Well, as I've said before,

what is a true master of the ring racing driver

gonna do in a vet?

That's the thing they haven't done yet.

True, they haven't done a ring master race driver

in the vet.

And I bet you, I've said before

that I think there's 10 seconds left in the vet.

I bet you there's every bit of four or five.

If they wanna beat this, there is.

Well, yes, but I'm saying,

even without making the special competition version

of the ZR1X, I'm just saying race driver,

I bet you finds five to 10 without,

I mean, not without trying.

There'll be lots of trying,

but these guys that know the ring,

it's amazing how good they are.

Yeah, I'm fascinated by this.

So yes, hardware updates,

aggressive tuning for more power,

rear wing mods, secondary front dive planes,

rear carbon fiber arrow to increase total downforce.

They don't say what the tires are,

new high performance tires,

new magnesium wheels, new carbon bucket seats.

And you'll see they're doing the Manti racing thing

with the carbon arrow discs on the rear wheels.

They probably went, huh,

Manti's onto something over here.

So let's investigate what they're doing.

One arrow for certain.

And other unnamed weight-shaving activities.

But what's crazy to me,

the third fastest car around the ring

is their own GT, the Ford GT Mark IV.

So a Mustang is quicker than a GT.

Yeah, because they just had that happen of late.

Yeah, like, a brick is faster.

A brick is faster than a midi to supercar, fair point.

This supercar sports car that should be like,

wow, that's the quickest, fastest thing.

Nope, the heavier Mustang is faster.

Because arrow, I mean, that's where the,

yeah, add a little bit of power,

but that's what Porsche discovered with the 911.

Let's work on arrow, which leads me to think,

like my prior conversation,

I'm wondering about arrow being the future that,

I mean, they're all discovering it here.

So now Corvette's got to show up with,

I'm very curious.

Wings, and I don't turn the wings upside down

and really stick it to the pavement.

I don't know.

I stand by it.

What is crazy?

And I'm not taking anything away

from the Corvette development drivers.

I'm not taking it because they are super fast

and very capable.

But just somebody, one of those guys

that is just one of the ring kings in a vet,

I'm certain they'd go faster.

You know it's coming.

So, see, we welcome the ongoing wars for,

and it's not relevant.

Here's the thing.

It's fascinating, but it's not, not relevant.

It's just not.

Well, I guess that's a question.

Does any of this sell more cars?

Do you buy, do we all think,

this, the Corvette is probably gonna beat it

because Corvette's going, all right,

or both companies were sandbagging,

just sort of like inching up to like,

okay, Corvette takes it, Ford's like, uh-huh.

Here we go.

Yeah.

Hold my schnitzel.

We're gonna finish October fast and we'll be back.

And then they surpass Mercedes,

Mercedes jumps back in and then they make a class,

go faster than all of them or something.

Possibly.

To your question though,

do they sell more Mustang GTs

because they have a ring record in the GTD competition?

Because you said, if you buy Mustang,

you got a little piece of this.

Does it translate to sales?

That's what they're gonna try to push for.

Do Corvette sales suddenly dip

because the Mustang GT competition,

special edition just went a little bit faster

and then, oh, this beats it.

And like, oh, Corvette sales went up.

I think there's a contingent of the market that cares,

but I think it is small.

I think it's very small, yeah.

So what they need here is a convertible for,

I couldn't do it.

I didn't think you'd go there.

That's good.

Okay, the convertible GT competition,

the wing doesn't help you much anymore,

but the top goes down.

I don't know what you screw the wing to anymore, but,

but the top goes down, it's slightly heavier

and you can power available for $400,000.

Add a hundred grand to that maybe.

Right, the half million dollar GTD competition SC.

Ford, are you listening?

That's where the money's at.

This does the ring time and now chop the top.

You make it convertible.

And, perfect.

It's a brave new world.

Kayak gets my flight, hotel and rental car right.

So I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong.

Bro, sky coin, way better than points.

Never fly during a Scorpio full moon.

Just tell the manager you'll sue.

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Stop taking bad travel advice.

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and get your trip right.

Kayak, got that right.

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I know you're not surprised to hear this

but there are track days coming up with Hooked On Driving.

We're very excited.

The entire country is activated right now.

All of the regions have got like major days

on the calendar.

Spring driving season is here.

So very cool.

Ridge Motorsports Park, that's a Pacific Northwest.

That is happening on Friday, May 1st

and Saturday, May 2nd.

So that's very cool.

The Northeast, opposite side of the country

is doing the exact same weekend.

Essentially, Pocono Raceway is doing

May 2nd and Sunday, May 3rd.

Of course, at the end of May, we are still doing.

We haven't canceled it because it's full.

Coda, circuit of the Americas.

We're gonna be there for two days.

Hundreds and I think it's like

better part of 300 people are gonna be there both days.

Now, we keep the actual numbers of people on track

low enough that it's not gonna be super busy on track.

But just with the people that are on track,

which the groups are full,

the people that are coming,

we had a conversation just this past week

with some folks from our patrons that are in the area

that are just gonna come out and hang out.

Because of course you should.

Coda's really cool.

It's amazing.

So it's gonna be probably 300 plus people there.

We're gonna do a podcast that night.

So come out May 30th, 31st in Austin, Texas.

Saturday, Sunday at Coda.

And we have that one lingering space available

on pilgrimage.

We will put you in a Mustang GTD competition.

No, we won't.

No.

I was gonna try to tempt everybody.

We'll put you in a competition.

GTD competition.

Everybody's getting the GTD competition Mustang to drive.

Sure they are.

And have at it.

Yes.

No, no.

Best of luck.

No, there will be excellent coaching.

There will be a variety of cars.

And who wants the last slot?

Yes, well, but here,

you know, while we're talking about the ring and spa,

you know, I will say this,

putting the ring in perspective, okay?

We're talking about sub seven minute lap times.

I need all of you listening to understand,

truly understand,

you take a competent driver in a fast car

and they will struggle to break eight.

Eight minutes.

We're talking below seven for these hypercarves.

There was a time.

There was a van at 10.

Yes.

Nines are decent.

Nines are something we're proud of.

That's key.

That's so key because the people that come with us,

what we tell people to expect,

if you come with us

and you're doing your first laps on the ring,

I don't care how many times you've done it on the sim,

10 minutes is about what you should expect.

You're going to be gone for 10 minutes

and you got a lap done.

Watch your fuel gauge.

Yes, for sure.

You go out for two laps,

your fuel's probably gone

and you've been gone a half hour, okay?

It takes a while because that track is so much.

So we're talking, we keep joking

about these less than seven minute lap times.

You've got to recalibrate.

I'm telling you,

you do a nine on the ring.

Good.

Respectable.

You did a nine.

Yes.

And we're all sitting here laughing like nine.

We're doing less than sevens.

No, you're not.

It's hard.

Fast.

Eights are very fast.

Sevens are pro driver level.

Yes.

And under seven is, well, I guess you're a race engineer.

You're an astronaut.

Yeah, we're a race engineer.

I guess that's more true, yeah.

So you're saying with Hilton Honors,

I can use points for a free night stay anywhere?

Anywhere.

What about fancy places like the Canopy in Paris?

Yeah.

Hilton Honors, baby.

Or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad in Tulum.

Hilton Honors, baby.

What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria

in the Maldives?

Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties?

When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime,

it matters where you stay.

Hilton, for the stay.

Book your spring break now.

Hey, let's do some car debates.

Let's jump in.

That sounds like fun.

We've got three of them to do.

We're going to start with Logan.

Go for it.

Logan writes to us on behalf of a friend

who is going through an identity crisis.

Hmm.

Logan is this secretly.

Yeah, is this friend also known as you?

I'm guessing not, but he never told us his name.

Yeah.

Logan's friend is the current owner of a 2025 Audi RS3

and an E46 gutted track-only car.

Lives very near to the Taylor Dragon,

which we have discovered we love.

It is very cool.

It's amazing.

He frequents Taylor Dragon.

He doesn't get the E46 to the track as much as he would like

and doesn't enjoy the RS3 in the mountain back roads

quite as much as his prior FL5 Civic Type R.

So the current Civic Type R doesn't enjoy that

as he used that as a daily.

He loves the RS3 for daily comfort and it's an automatic,

but he could not stand the Civic manual transmission

in daily traffic, so hence the swap.

We're talking about E46 track-prepped car gutted,

which tells me probably might only have one seat.

I don't know if he went that far,

but we're talking cage, we're talking belts,

we're talking a serious car

you don't want to drive on the road.

So that's not a car he wants to take Taylor Dragon.

He wants to take it to the track,

but he doesn't really go to the track.

So that means he has a daily that needs to be fun,

but the daily needs to be auto,

because when he had, I mean the current gen,

Civic Type R, we love it, the FL5 is awesome,

but it is manual only.

He loved that on Taylor the Dragon

and all of his fun driving and hated it as a commuter.

So the RS3 is the daily compromise.

It's still kind of fun on back roads,

but I can sit in traffic in it.

Then he has the E46.

The dilemma is the RS3 is not fun enough.

Logan's friend's options are,

keep the RS3, sell the E46 by a back road,

like track duty car for about $40 to $45,000.

The considerations are another Civic Type R,

a GR86, 981 generation Cayman S.

He doesn't like how small the cabin is

on a Miata or a Supra.

And any of these would eventually

be modified more for track duty,

except Logan, your friend,

isn't getting to the track anymore.

It has a gutted E46 track car.

So when you say it's gonna inch towards track mods,

you don't use the one you got now.

What I hear is he's going to modify

the fun car full stop, it's gonna get modified.

But you gotta stop short of,

now this isn't good on the street anymore.

So it can be better for track,

but it's gotta stay streetable.

That's what he has now.

He has that recipe right now.

It sounds like he's gone too far into tracking.

Maybe so.

Anyway, we'll see.

His wife will not allow a single do-it-all car.

So what I hear is she wants a car

that when she rides with this, I'm reading in.

I don't know, I have no idea.

Plus we're talking about Logan's friend's wife,

so I really am out on a limb.

But what I'm sensing here is

his wife wants a car she can ride in

with him for fun drives

that isn't a full crazy modified thing.

He can do crazy full modified thing,

but she's not getting in it.

So what does he have that she can actually ride along in?

That's where I think that no single do-it-all car thing

is happening here.

The alternative option is,

and he doesn't like this as much,

sell the RS3 and the E46,

get an economical fun daily

and then a larger budget for the fun back road car.

That is the alternate.

But a GTI is suggested right here.

It is, yeah.

But Logan's friend has already owned a 2010 GTI

and a 2015 Golf R.

And the Type R that he's considering getting again.

Right, he's had one.

So what if I got another Golf?

Well, that would be your third.

Another thing like I had that I got rid of.

Right, and if we go back to a Civic Type R,

because you liked it better, you've already had it.

It sounds like keeping the RS3 is on the table.

We don't have to sell it

because it's great for the daily.

It's just not so great on tail

or as great as other cars.

It seems like he has found the right car

for the daily commute.

It's fun, but it does the daily commute thing.

Which means, okay, keep the RS3.

And you said 40 to 45,000 if you sell the E46

for a light duty track car, back road car.

But I think you're leaning more, Logan's friend,

to the back road kind of car

rather than more heavy duty tracks.

But maybe you could still track.

I mean, you could theoretically track any cars.

Of course you can.

Some cars are better at it than others.

I went in a lot of different places here.

Logan's friend, I'm showing the R53 Mini Cooper S

because you can get one of these,

a really nice one for five or $6,000.

You can get kind of like a lot of miles

for about four grand.

We've kind of accidentally become

the mini podcast of late.

When I bought my sons for no money.

Which is awesome.

The second one I've owned.

I bought my sons for no money

and you and I both drive it with,

these are great and they cost nothing.

And now we're like, what are minis again?

Everybody's like, let's go buy cheap minis.

Exactly.

Sorry, go on, go on.

It doesn't all quite make sense yet.

But I thought, what if you sold the RS3

and you want something fun to commute in?

I mean, it's fun on tail of the dragon,

but what if this is the cheap $5,000 commuter,

still manual, so not quite there.

And I was also thinking, what if it's a Fiesta ST?

So the Mini Cooper, the R53 and the Fiesta ST,

those are the two like we're pushing right now.

No one's paying us,

but we are at the pattern.

The pattern is holding it.

Pushing these cars for some reason.

It's just because rediscovering them has been delightful.

Yeah, they're so great.

And then realizing like, really?

How much are they again?

How cheap are those?

Yeah, shouldn't I buy one?

Yeah.

And then you did and there was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

My son is totally obsessed with his car,

which is great.

It really is great.

Maybe this doesn't fit because, all right,

let's say you keep the R53

and instead of the Civic Type R,

why don't you go a little bit more luxurious

and it helps your wife out,

even though the problem is these are still manual,

but what if the Audi stays as commute duty

and you get an Integra Type S,

so these are still great on track.

You can do the back road thing and they shine it back road,

but then it's kind of like two of the same thing,

one with an auto and one with a manual.

Yeah.

Same thing with the M2.

I'm showing the M2 CS because,

well, these are a little bit more expensive.

I mean, just a little bit.

This midget out of his budget, but keep going.

Tiny bit, I'm just working with ideas here.

Okay, keep the RS3, that's the daily,

and then you add the track capable

and back road focused fun car, yes.

Okay, yes, I like this.

What I'm trying to do, Logan's friend,

is not just do this circular,

like my car evolution has just been a wreath.

It's just-

I'm gonna go back to stuff I owned already.

Golf, Civic Type R is BMW 46s.

We just keep going.

We're just gonna do an all out.

I've owned it long enough to forget how that one drove

and so I went back to him like, oh yeah.

It drives like this.

I'm trying to avoid.

I'm trying to get you out of the rut.

Okay, good, I like it.

It's good.

The RS3 stays, all right?

So we look at the M2, the newer M2.

You could go look at an older M2,

but then it's kind of the same.

They both kind of do the same.

One's auto, one's manual.

Keep going.

I'm trying to get you two specifics here.

And now, not just a Cayman,

but the 987 Cayman R, which is delightful.

They're great.

Lightweight.

This could still work for track use.

They're designed for track use,

but also for a back road.

This shines like crazy, especially if you get the manual.

Isn't this like 70, though?

Yeah.

Aren't they 70 grand?

They're 70 grand, that's the problem.

Yeah, okay.

Keep going.

It's a great car for his choices.

I do see it.

I also had the Cayman T from 2020.

Both of these are very specific

because I don't want you to just say,

okay, go get a Cayman and your problems will be solved.

I mean, maybe, but if you get the Cayman R

and the very lightweight sort of track focus,

back road focus, more sharp driving tool,

which are both of these cars,

maybe that will be the difference.

Because again, there's much tracking you should do.

You don't need to do anything to these cars.

I mean, change brake fluid, maybe better tires.

Look at your brake pads, do a self inspection.

Take both of these to the track.

You could still commute in this,

but you're not going to so you got the RS3

and the Cayman T, interesting manual.

Sure, sure.

It starts to get interesting

and it's not a stripped out E46 super track car.

Here is the Cayman R that I found.

You're spot on.

$71,000 everybody.

They used to be $55,000 to $60,000 there

and not that anymore.

And this one is a PDK.

The PDK is actually brilliant on these cars

and it works very well.

And so maybe that's the tipping point

because for back roads and track use,

yeah, this would be really great,

but it's still, you know, just drive around town

but you've got the RS3.

So I'm trying to like force the...

You're trying to find two cars

that they're somehow got it.

Looking at these Cayman R's again,

makes me want one of these again.

They're expensive now.

They're special.

They are special.

But even with 35,000 miles, it's $71,300.

Just asking.

Are you an Elise buyer?

But then if the Miata and Super Interiors

you said is too small for you,

he's gonna peek inside the Lotus Elise interior

and go, huh.

I mean, what's crazy is I fit in the Elise

and I do not fit in the Miata.

But if you're worried about cramped interiors,

the Elise is probably out.

You will have to learn the Lotus position

to get in and out properly without seeing a chiropractor.

But it can be done, taught as proof.

And I'm asking, are you an Elise person

because this is specialized, but it's not the,

it's so track car, all the parts.

You can take this to the track just like it is.

Exactly.

And back roads on Tail of the Dragon.

You've got the RS3.

Automatic.

I kinda want my Elise on Tail of the Dragon

now that you're bringing it out.

Manual Elise over here for tail.

And for some track driving.

Now we're a little bit more separated.

Yeah, yeah.

A little bit more.

And these are 40 to 70,000 now, I think.

Which is crazy that that's the swath.

The ones with miles on them,

you can get them in the high 30s.

And the special ones with no miles,

you can get about 70.

So his budget's 40, 45.

So yes, is the answer.

Oh yeah, you could find a few.

Probably gonna be 05s, but yes.

Your wife is gonna continue to want to ride in the RS3.

She'll spend maybe eight minutes in this.

She'll probably look at it in the garage

and be like, you have fun, honey.

I don't even know if she gets in it.

She's probably like, mm-hmm.

Right.

That could be.

The last choice is a crazy, crazy wild card.

Okay.

But Logan's friend, I want you to be enamored with your car.

I want you to, the next thing you get,

because if we just revolve through E46s,

Golfs and Civic Type Rs,

and we're just kind of doing this over here

in the RS3 stays.

Where are we on the clock of those cars?

Which hour is it?

What else is there?

And I don't like super too small,

Z's too heavy and we just keep going around.

Let's try to break out just a little bit.

I found a 1991 Nissan Skyline GT-R with mods.

It's $55,900.

So maybe a little bit less than you thought, 87,000 miles.

But this is a special car.

It's JDM and it's, it's further over here.

It's RS3, commute, funnish, good.

But then this, it's different enough past a Cayman,

past a Lotus, it's way over here.

It's a JDM.

So this is right hand drive.

Yep.

You can see the interior here.

It's got quite a lot of mods, but it's in top shape.

In no way do we suggest buying a car

with your headspace thinking.

This is going to go up in the future.

Don't buy it for that reason.

But this does have that potential.

So I'm just noting that this particular Skyline.

So in 1991, it's JDM.

So it's right hand drive, it's got mods on it,

but it's in really clean condition, top mods.

It's got a lot of power, all wheel drive, of course.

And it's different and special enough

where you're going to be in the headspace for this.

It's going to be track duty, back road duty.

And again, you don't have to do anything to this.

True.

You have to throw parts at it to make it track worthy.

And then you're going to want to take it on back roads.

And so it's just, it's something different.

I want to break you out of the normal stuff.

It's just, I get it, I get it.

For me, that's what this represents.

It's just weird and not normal enough.

Well, it's, I mean, it's a known,

I mean, it's a known, it's a known awesome car

that is not typical.

Let's just get you away from all the stuff that you've lived with.

You've had two golfs.

You've had a civic type.

Are you done?

Yeah, yeah.

You've done all that stuff.

So what's different that's still light and still

because as soon as we go down the road of that

something else from BMW, heavier.

Mercedes are out of here.

I think you wouldn't.

I think you would easily dismiss those.

But this hopefully it's intriguing.

This is good stuff.

I'm going to give my, my ground rules for myself here.

Okay, because it seems that the RS3 is staying,

that it's the right car.

I think so.

So the E46 goes away and I've read into it,

but I think the E46 is going away

because it got too far to tracking.

It can't be used on the street.

So it doesn't have a purpose anymore.

But what I'm hearing is this fun car

to live alongside the RS3,

I'm hearing that it's not going to say stock.

And I'm hearing.

Right.

Besides not saying, staying stock,

you're going to do stuff to it to try to make it

better for track use.

Don't go too far.

And then if you don't take it to track, well true.

Spend a bunch of money for no reason.

But you could take a car and you could make it more

kind of track hard driving capable without making it

so track worthy that you don't want to take it

to tail the dragon anymore.

That's what's happened with the E46.

So I'm going to stay with the RS3.

I'm going to stay with this budget of 45 grand.

I'm going to walk through some of the suspects

you brought up and tell you pros and cons as I see them.

And then I'm going to give you a wild car

that I think is the answer.

The FL-5 Civic Type R, you've already owned one.

You have $45,000 to spend.

I have one on the screen right here right now,

a 2024 in my favorite color on the car,

which is that very bright blue.

I love it.

Perfect condition.

Yes.

It is gorgeous.

This has just under 10,000 miles.

It is listed for 46,000 and change.

So 46,000 right on top of your budget.

Could you get this car?

Yes.

But you've already had one.

And I hear that you want to make it more track worthy.

And I'm not sure what you do.

Honda's done a lot on this.

And I even dug into the forums a little bit.

And right now, people's conversation

what to do to this is minimal.

It's like, well, track fluid.

It's like changing tires and wheels.

It's minimal stuff.

There is not a lot to do to this

to make it more track worthy than it already is.

So don't get me wrong, it's brilliant.

You know that you owned one.

But you've already had it.

If you need to get something new and different

to your point, Paul, just keep buying the same thing.

Let's get something different for the fun back road car.

Maybe didn't get finished with the Type R.

Maybe sold it, now regrets it, and he's not done with it yet.

Possibly.

The other thing on the list here from you

was the 981 Cayman.

I'm showing one here.

I learned lots of stuff on autotempus.com today.

OK.

I found that a lot of the cars that you and I talk up

that are the known enthusiast highlight cars

have gotten more expensive.

Four to five grand across the board.

I don't think that's due to us talking about them.

No, it isn't.

But I'm just saying people are settling into.

I think it's because there's not more new different stuff

coming out.

And these standbys of the last decade

that are truly great drivers cars

are bouncing a little bit in price.

Because $45,000, you're not getting an S.

This is a 2014 Porsche Cayman.

That's the 981 generation.

It is a very good car.

This is a gorgeous looking one in a nice spec.

Looks like they filmed it somewhere, Arizona, or something.

I'm not sure.

It's a Porsche Cayman Cayman.

Yeah, exactly.

This one's actually for sale here in Utah.

So this one is coming in right at $45,000 with 43,000

miles, but it is a base 981.

Wow.

OK.

My problem with the Cayman for you though

is if you start A, tracking it, or B, modifying it,

it's going to be wildly expensive.

And you've blown your budget.

The great thing about Porsches

is how capable they are on the track.

The same is true with BMWs.

The downside is the amount of consumables you go through

can be catastrophic.

So if you're really going to track this, and God forbid

you're really going to tune this,

your base Cayman is going to be wildly more expensive

than you expected it to be.

So I think it may be out, which leads me

to the next obvious one you brought up.

The GR86, I'm showing a Hakone edition.

Ooh.

This one is still selling, even though it's used,

10,000 miles.

It's still listing it for $39,000.

So these are hanging on to some value.

Are you kidding me?

These are $39,000?

This is $39,000 used 10,000 miles on it.

And the ones like the one that we sold to Mike

that was our show car are still selling with miles

for low 30s.

What?

You can find the, here's the one you find less

are autos and in a color you don't want.

If you want a cool color, like the cool color we had,

and you want a manual, they're hovering around $30,000

right now, which is interesting.

So this is $39,000 for an 86.

Now, the 86 is a great platform for you to tune and play with.

You would love that.

You might not ever find it has enough power.

And the problem with these engines

is you start to put a lot of power through them,

and that's when they break.

Now, you would have plenty of power here for Tail of the Dragon.

Oh, yeah.

And you can do stuff to this.

It's really good on consumables.

I think you would like all of that.

But my answer for you is none of these.

OK?

My answer for you, because these cars have not bounced

yet, and you can't believe what

you can get for your money, $45,000 in your pocket,

you need to buy yourself a Z car, the current Z.

I'm showing one right now with 141 miles.

This is a two-year-old, but technically a used car in yellow.

I also picked one in a color.

You get a boring color, and they get cheaper.

This is $46,000 right here.

141 miles, what's wrong with it?

141 miles, manual transmission.

This was bought and not driven, OK?

But the reason I'm bringing up the Z car

is because the Z car is mods away from brilliance.

True.

If you buy one of the less expensive mods than Porsche mods.

Yes.

And there's more for him to do.

Or less.

If you put the same, here's the thing.

If you put the same kind of mods into this

that you would put into the 86, I

think you'd be have a more unique, interesting, faster

car to drive here.

In Nismo form, it's right.

In performance form, it's not.

But you can get it in manual.

You can get it for your budget.

And then you can have that, world is open to you.

What would I like to do to this?

And you can make it yours.

And you can make it more of a great back road, barn

storming car without taking it full track car.

The engine's brilliant.

Yes, engine's got the gearboxes good.

The bones of this car are great,

but it is too soft in stock non-Nismo form.

But he wants to tune it anyway.

The answer for me, for you, Logan's friend,

and hopefully his wife would like it too.

But manual transmission, Nissan Z, current Z,

and then start playing.

And I think you'll find a car that most people don't have

that you can make yours.

This is good.

Logan's friend, you have ideas

to get you out of the Cycle of Three series

and Type-Rs and Golfs.

We've hopefully broken you out a little bit

and write to us.

Your debate, everydaydriverTV at gmail.com.

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Cardioby number two is Kevin writing in.

He has had almost as many cars as his age.

He's been an automotive tech for the past nine years.

He currently works for a company where he does

heavy diesel engine mechanics.

Wow, that is crazy.

He's an avid car enthusiast.

He's had his license since he was 17.

He's now 27.

He's owned 23 cars.

That's impressive.

I started late.

I still haven't caught up.

Kevin, this is really impressive.

So we're gonna chase down a good car for you.

Notable cars Kevin has had include everything

from a 1983 El Camino as his first car, 2004 GTO,

three NB Miata's, which is how many times it took

for Kevin to realize at six foot four

he does not fit in them.

I love that you own three NB Miata's desperate to fit.

I also say this to you, Kevin.

I think you'd fit in an NC.

I'm just putting it out there.

How about a fourth try?

But you've had three NB's.

And I'll just say this.

NB is the one I fit in the least.

Agreed.

You really could fit in the NA a little bit better

than the NB.

Well, because your head is above the bottom of our head.

So you've had three of them.

And guess what?

You do not fit.

I'm not surprised.

He's had a sign FRS, a 1993 Toyota Cresta,

a 2011 Subaru WRX and many other project cars

on the side, which he does not name.

True.

23 cars total is a ton though.

That's a lot.

Yeah.

His current daily is a Fiesta ST.

Yes.

He drives to work as the fun gas saver

and a 1998 Evo 5 as his fun weekend car.

That's cool.

He enjoys the Fiesta ST on back roads,

but out of his 140 mile daily round trip commute,

he only gets five minutes of roads that aren't straight.

He's not all that comfortable in the Fiesta

for the one hour commute before and after work.

And he's exploring other options.

Who wants to buy Kevin's Fiesta ST?

We found one.

I mean, he loves it.

It's for sale.

But it's the wrong commute car.

It really is.

Kevin is very aware of the fact

that non-fun cars don't last very long

in his driveway before he's looking for something else.

He's not looking for something without rages power

because doing triple digits in first gear isn't his thing.

So long geared super powerful cars are out.

Got it.

Something with good power would be usable on the highway.

He doesn't say, I don't need a 4,000 pound boat.

He doesn't have a need for anything four doors.

The bases are covered with his wife's 1993 Toyota chaser

and a 1983 Buick estate wagon.

That's when wagons were wagons there, people.

I'm telling you.

That is, that's a Clark Griswold wagon.

That's excellent.

I love that.

That's really good.

We definitely pick up on the certain era of cars

that you like, but he says whatever he gets

needs to be reliable because getting a 70 mile tow home

on a work day is not something he looks forward to.

Yikes, yeah.

He's looked at GR Supras, Nissan Zs,

a few others in that realm,

but has a real affinity for the 996 and 997 Carreras.

Okay, sure.

The only thing that scares him, it scares all of us.

Kevin is the bore score problems

that's plagued a lot of the M96 engines in those cars.

Yes, I understand.

If you're going to go that route,

definitely look at the 997.2 engines.

Definitely less, but certainly bore scoring

can plague any of them.

Even a 981 Cayman, they're still bore scoring

I've heard of.

He can't spend more than 50 grand.

He said that means you, Paul.

Yeah.

Newer cars are in the options.

He's not a stranger and anything older.

He specifically looks for two door coupes,

no convertibles, good driving dynamics,

rear or all wheel drive interiors

that are comfortable for a long commute,

bonus points, if we can find something in a cool color.

We don't know what the other cars are that Kevin's had.

True.

And I'm worried about recommending

duplicating other things.

Yeah, I see that.

And here's the issue.

I mean, I know, I really appreciate you guys

when you write your emails and you give the car history.

And sometimes, probably when you're writing

the car history, like, oh yeah, I did own one of those.

That happens, yeah.

If they're notable, definitely call them out,

but if it's a huge car history, I get it.

He didn't want to list everything.

Totally, yeah.

Bit of a balance, but you're right.

I don't want to duplicate anything.

So I'm going to just touch on Supras.

You mentioned Supras and you're looking around at Supras.

Yeah.

Yes.

I don't understand what's stopping you from a Supra.

Supras are good, yes.

And yeah, manual here.

The badge is red on the back,

so you can tell it's a manual.

You said you looked at Z cars.

Why not a Nismo Z?

Yeah, yeah.

The used Nismo's are not manual yet

because the manual was just recently announced,

but they're not used yet, they're not even out yet,

but you could look at Zs.

I mean, either Supra or Z car.

The Nismo, I found for 46 actually.

So this is in your budget, which is no bad thing here.

I'm on autotempus.com slash everyday right now

and I'm scrolling through

and there's a surprising number between 45 and 50.

Yeah, these are definitely in his budget.

I mean, specifically Nismo's, which is pretty interesting.

And this is how we think the car should have driven

from the very beginning and they're automatic,

which means better for the commute,

but still sporty and fun, good suspension,

so it's comfortable enough, but it's going to be taught.

It's definitely in the performance category.

Only you can tell us what the commute roads

are going to be like,

and this could work for the commute.

At 21,000 miles for 46, these are easily in your budget.

I have to interrupt you

because look at this one I'm looking at right now

and I have to make the joke.

I am pulling up a Nismo.

It is available.

It is 3,900 miles, $52,000.

But the thing I'm noting about it is

it's for sale at Hyundai of Las Vegas

and that is in the Hyundai in colors.

Do you think they took it on trade

because it's in the gray of Hyundai

with the red accents like they do for Hyundai in?

It looks like it belongs on the lot.

Yes, it does.

That's funny.

But you know they took it on trade

because somebody had this car and said,

I need four seats and I need something performance

from Hyundai and they got the exact same color choice

on their Elantra N.

On the Elantra N and now this is for sale

at Hyundai of Las Vegas.

It belongs on the Hyundai lot.

$52,000 with 3,000 miles.

That's practically new.

Yes, that is new.

Sorry, back to you.

No, that's really good.

I was like, that is the Hyundai lineup Nismo Z car.

There it is.

It's get a Hyundai Z Nismo.

The Hyundai Z.

All right, so that just proves

there's a lot of Nismo's for sale under 50

or right at 50 or so.

And I highly recommend both these cars.

Yes, which one feels better to you?

Which one do you think you can spend a lot of time with?

I do take into consideration,

I note your statement,

non-fun cars don't last very long

but these are very fun

but they're gonna do the commute thing really well.

So it's gonna be quite a nice balance.

But speaking of fun and cool color,

how about a 987, quite raw?

Can you do long distances in these?

Yes, you can.

Without a doubt.

We've done the long distance.

Actually, you and I both went out to Oklahoma

when I bought my 987

and drove all the way back to California at the time.

And we kept marveling.

This is comfortable.

We're very happy and it's a great road trip car.

987 came in S

and it's got a little bit more raw feel.

It's a fun car.

It's gorgeous to look at.

You'll want to go drive it.

I know you've got the Evo,

but this is really interesting.

987, go back and with your budget

you can easily find one of these.

The Dot 2s of the 987

also have less of the fears

that you might think from the M96 engine.

Less of the bore scoring.

Anything can still happen

but because you're gonna be commuting in this

you're gonna be putting a lot of miles on it

which is very good

and Porsches like to get the miles on them.

Yeah, fair.

And I think it'll do just fine.

Good stuff.

I'm gonna jump in here Kevin

and I'm gonna note right away,

I'm gonna note the kind of cars you like.

Let's go back.

1990 300 ZX hatchback for $30,000.

It is the turbo.

That is kind of the perfect commuter.

I mean, you're wanting fun.

You're wanting rear wheel drive.

You're wanting two door coupe.

You like cars from the 80s and 90s.

I mean, okay.

What's the mileage on this thing?

I don't see it.

I actually, the way I've got it noted here,

I don't know what the mileage is,

but it wasn't terrible.

The only downside actually to this specific one I'm showing

is this one happens to be an auto

but it is the twin turbo.

He's got the Mitsubishi,

now the Nissan keep it all in the family.

I drove this car all over the country.

I loved it.

It was great.

I had to put it out there

because it feels like your love of older cars

puts me right here and goes, and we're done.

I'm not staying here.

Your budget of $50,000.

Yes, you can get a Cayman.

I am showing a 2007 base Cayman in the manual

to show you kind of where the bottom of the market

for a nice one is right now.

That is $28,000.

This one that I'm showing right here,

57,000 miles.

This is a very clean,

very similar to the one you had except not an S.

It's black with the tan interior,

manual transmission,

all of the pictures of this car,

it's very, very clean.

And you're making me miss my 987.

This is the bottom of the market for those 987s

and it is the smaller engine.

So that's the problem is the way you get a lot

of these options is you get the non-S.

Yeah, yeah.

But then there's two cars that I'm thinking about commute.

I'm thinking about fun.

I'm thinking about powerful, but not crazy,

manual transmission,

but that commute keeps ringing in my ears.

I thought of two cars,

I don't understand why you haven't considered them.

I'm gonna show you a couple of options for both.

The first one of the two is the C7 Corvette.

Interesting.

Green, and I pulled up specifically because it's green,

a green 2014 base Stingray,

40,000 miles for $42,000,

$43,000 for this 40,000 mile 2014.

This would be a fantastic commute car.

If you decide you wanna go cross country on a road trip,

this is great for that too.

These are so great.

Big ol' V8 in the front.

You would love driving a C7 Corvette.

I had so much so I got another one here,

a 2019 for $48,900.

This one is an LT2,

so it is better specced than the last one.

$48,900, this is dark blue with a tan interior,

manual transmission, $49,000 for 40,000 miles.

It's good.

A C7 Corvette.

Here's the thing,

you would love cruising in this on your commute.

It's comfortable.

It has a lazy amount of power

when you need to pass that guy

and you're just gonna pass him.

You don't worry about it,

but you can hang out,

you can get good gas mileage,

you can put tons of stuff in the hatch.

But then as we proved on all of the roads in the Ozarks,

you get a tight road all of a sudden.

True.

And this thing's brilliant.

True, it does come to life.

So I really think that the Corvette Stingray,

the C7 needs to seriously be considered,

but I went further commute.

Okay.

BMW M2, the base original 2017 model.

That was before they changed the engine

and went competition.

40 grand, 37,000.

37,000 for 69,000 miles.

And the great thing about the M2 BMW is,

it is a car that only enthusiasts know what it is.

It's just a BMW sedan to most people.

I have it in the cool blue here,

but it does hide.

Most people don't know what it is.

And then I went,

could you do a competition

when they changed the engine and revised it?

Yes, you can.

I've got an M2 competition here at 2020 for 46,400

with 60,000 miles on it, 58,000 miles on it.

The problem with the competitions

at this level price-wise

is they're all boring colors.

Silver, white, black.

Those are the way to get a competition,

but you might be able to find one.

I think the M2 competition really gets this done,

or the base M2.

It's full-on commuter, drive cross country,

comfortable place to be,

plenty of room for you at 65,

but it also has tons of dynamics

and the VET works as well.

So hopefully one of those two,

I'm going M2 or VET

and hopefully one of them works.

You got me thinking about Grand Sports.

And I just went looking

and here is a $46,000, $47,000, 2017 Grand Sport,

69,000 miles.

Look at this, everyone.

If we're gonna go C7,

can we do a Grand Sport?

See, some of these are 60, that's 50.

He's a little above his budget.

He's in the low 60s for all of these.

This is the one I was talking about,

this 2017 right there.

But there is one right there, yep.

$46,000 for 70,000 miles, but it's a commute car

and it's just gonna lope along and...

Yeah, it will.

Yeah, but it's still fun.

Telling you, if VET would do it,

got me thinking about the Grand Sports.

I see that, yeah.

Okay, so, your budget.

Kevin, you're gonna have to work on your budget.

Need to talk.

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Diego M is in Puerto Rico.

Thank you for writing Diego.

Thanks for listening.

We really appreciate it.

He's been watching since episode 949 and hasn't stopped.

Love it, that's great.

Thank you for being with us, that's really cool.

Yeah, thank you.

Diego's got a base 2010 Genesis Coupe 2.0

that he bought himself when he got out of high school

five years ago.

He's loved the car and he's had lots of goodies

but in these five years of owning his car,

he's now put more into it than $5,000

in full suspension replacement engine mounts

and now his transmission is dead.

He said it broke by reversing into a parking spot.

I'm so sorry to hear.

He's gonna fix it but he's tired of the car

and he's thinking about selling it.

So, good thing you wrote.

He's a college student but he also works

as a track supervisor at K1 Speed.

He gets paid 12 bucks an hour

but you are a true enthusiast, Diego.

I love it.

You're always around it and I'm sure you're,

you've seen your share of crazy driving

by all kinds of customers.

Some place like K1 Speed.

You've seen people run into barricades

where you're like, what happened?

What just happened?

Did you fall asleep?

Did you use your eyes?

You use your eyes.

The tracks the same as it was last lap.

What happened?

Anyway.

He said in Puerto Rico, the Genesis Coupe

is worth to eight or $9,000

but everything else is high priced.

The only thing close to his budget is $10,000.

The only thing close is an RSX Type S.

Those are around nine or $10,000.

He needs at least a manual that is reliable and fun

and won't have issues going up and down mountains

because he says that's all they've got there

plus lots of potholes.

Needs to be all-wheel drive or front-wheel drive

because he's got a steep hill that he needs to go up through

to get out of his house,

which the Genesis had trouble going up

because it's had, it's got an open diff.

Interesting.

Okay, so front-wheeler all-wheel drive

and that sounds something to handle that hill.

Okay, all right.

I see it.

$10,000 is the max of the budget

and he asked us to look into prices

specifically for Puerto Rico

because he said they're always more expensive

than you think looking from the US.

So we had to do a little bit of digging.

This was hard, but it's intriguing.

You've said that you've added mods to your Genesis

because you want more fun out of it.

And so I started here, Diego, with the Corolla XSE

from 2020 in that great blue.

Some of these, it was a little tough to find the pricing

but based on the $10,000 mark that I entered,

I did find a lot of these that were right around 10.

This one is an automatic

but I'm sure you could find a manual transmission

and there's tons of cars in Puerto Rico,

all kinds of price ranges.

But I figured if you started here,

this was a lukewarm hatch that really had some fun in it.

It didn't go as far as a GR Corolla

but it doesn't need to because it keeps the price down

but it's gonna be reliable

and still interesting and fun to drive.

I think you could really make this work.

I've got two other suggestions here for you.

I went to Honda Civic SI

because again, I'm thinking I want it to run for you.

I want you to be a little bit invisible

but SI's are fun to drive.

So at 2020, I know this is right around $10,000.

So you're back a generation.

Yep.

But still, I think this could,

you could really make this work.

And again, there's great gas mileage.

There's a bit of invisibility

but you can still do stuff to this

that makes it kind of interesting and fun.

Start with tires, start with brakes.

SI's are a great platform.

They're just a great fun to drive.

There's a lot of value here

that is the front wheel drive goodness

that we love about Honda Civics.

It's just a lot of fun driving in it.

And then also I want you to take a look

at Hyundai Veloster Turbos.

Found you one from 2016.

It is not the end.

So I thought, oh, wonder what Veloster ends are these days.

Ends are still out of your budget.

I mean, if you find one you can,

definitely buy the Veloster end

because what a great car.

Now I know this keeps you in the Hyundai family

and you've experienced the Genesis.

You might want to go away from that

but still, you know Hyundai,

the Veloster is a superb car

and the turbo has a lot of power

and it's just fun to drive.

It is.

It's funny, I found this exact same car that you're showing.

Did you really?

I was like, oh, Veloster Turbos is an option.

I'm glad you brought it up because it's an excellent one.

Eight grand standard transmission.

Turbo and here's the thing,

the turbo really is the middle ground

between the base Veloster

and what they made into the end.

It's the almost end.

Not quite.

It's better.

So this is an interesting thought.

It keeps the price down.

It does, yes.

And you know what?

I can't speak to reliability

but we have not heard much about Velosters.

Of course, different engine and transmission

so I think this would serve you just fine.

Good stuff.

Well, actually you and I found a lot of the same things

because there were limited places to look them up

but I'm gonna run here real quick

through a couple of things

that I don't have pictures for

but I just want to note for you, Diego,

you know what I found a ton of automatic BMWs

for less than $10,000, surprisingly new.

No kidding.

Just like three series?

All kinds of like pick your BMW.

I found a really interesting X1.

I mean, I know you don't want an SUV

but the X1s are surprisingly good to drive.

The older X1s.

Yeah, they are.

They're smaller.

They were smaller and surprisingly good to drive.

Some of the older ones actually the mid teens

had hydraulic steering.

I found one of those auto.

Okay.

So here's the problem.

BMWs in automatic,

it was like take your pick of which one

you'd like for 10 grand.

No kidding.

To manual it was three cars.

So that is the differentiating factor there, Diego.

So they may be out but I did want to note

I was shocked most every brand I could find

all of the kind of stand-bys

that we look for certain cars.

I couldn't find them in your price range

and BMW was like, which one would you like, sir?

Which I couldn't believe.

That's interesting though.

So that's a consideration though.

I looked at Honda Fitts auto only.

I looked for a Fiesta ST, couldn't find one.

Yeah, I didn't find that either.

I looked and found that exact same Veloster N

that you did.

No, Veloster turbo.

Not the N.

I looked for the N, found the turbo

but the things I did find you're going to laugh.

The Fiat 500 Sport.

Oh, interesting. Not the Abarth.

$6,000 manual transmission.

These are good.

They're not amazing but it's in that same category.

It's the lukewarm hatch thing

like you did with the Corolla

where they're fun to drive

and the chassis is small and they're interesting

and their front wheel drive

and the manual transmission is decent.

So this is $6,000.

It's below your budget of 10 grand.

It's a good consideration.

And it would be a great little city runabout.

You wouldn't have to be precious with it.

There it is.

Fiat 500 Sport, that's a 2012.

That's one of them.

And then I know you won't be surprised any of you

but guess what?

You can find Mini Coupers down there for this budget.

Mini Coupers in various varieties.

Mini Coupers, oh.

I just, that would be fun.

$10,000 manual transmission, Mini Cooper.

I can't believe I'm back at Mini

but this is one I'm showing right now.

We're selling Mini's.

When we are, we're selling old Mini's

which is crazy.

Doesn't matter where it's located

but if you could find an S, R53, Mini Cooper S

and it's been well taken care of,

I would say yes, Diego.

For sure, but here's the thing,

even if it's not an S, I think if you could find one,

they're just, they're fun little chuckable runabouts

and the price is right here.

So that was the other one that I had for you, Diego.

Diego, wishing you all the best

with your transmission rebuild

and hopefully you can sell that and move on

but there's a lot of fun awaiting you

and really appreciate you listening and watching.

So good, so good, so good.

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Got some questions on social media.

I just wanted to start here.

We got a note from Isaiah T on Instagram.

He just wanted to thank us for our advice

regarding going into the car business.

He is now working at Sewel BMW in Plano, Texas.

Oh wow.

Our advice has been incredibly helpful to him.

Any fellow enthusiasts looking to get into a BMW in Texas,

please hit up Isaiah.

Come see him at Sewel.

Sewel is a huge, huge dealer group.

Congratulations on your new job.

I'm glad you're loving it.

You're around cool BMWs.

They have said they're going to save the manual transmission.

They're going to continue manuals.

And I'm sure you're getting to drive

a lot of cool stuff, Isaiah.

So thank you for writing.

That's really awesome.

And yeah, if you need a BMW, you're in Texas,

or even if you're not in Texas, go call Isaiah.

He'll help you out.

Kirk Meyer has an interesting question.

He says, if simulated engine and gears

make an EV more engaging,

he's using the Ioniq 5N as a reference here,

which of course simulates everything, right?

And it makes it more engaging.

Is there something else that could be simulated

to make driving in general more fun?

Kirk, not simulated, but I'll tell you something

that if manufacturers worked on what I'm about to say,

it would revolutionize people's enjoyment

of driving their cars.

And that is lower weight.

If every manufacturer across the board

was concerned about what their cars weigh,

and I'm not saying let's make cars less safe.

How do we make cars light

and still safe like they are now?

Because what's happened with EVs,

especially with batteries weighing so much,

is that most manufacturers have just thrown the scale away.

They've just said, well, because we have all this power

with an EV, we'll just make it weigh whatever,

it just weighs whatever it weighs.

And then I'll tell you,

you end up with a nearly 10,000 pound hummer.

What are we doing?

What are we doing, everyone?

No, seriously, no vehicle made drives better

because it's heavier, okay?

It matters.

Now, if all you're wanting to do

is isolate yourself from all sensation,

then yes, weight helps that

because the world will not be moved, okay?

But if everything was lighter,

everything would drive more engaging and interesting.

Kirk also asked how much time

or how many miles does it take

for us to form our thoughts for a test drive video?

Not much, and it's definitely dropped over the years

because we know what we're looking for

depending on the car we're getting into.

For example, if we're getting into a pickup truck,

of course, we're not instantly looking for steering feel.

We're not looking for the sports car dynamics.

And so the headspace instantly shifts.

So we're looking for amenities.

We're looking for power.

We're looking for ride comfort.

You think, if I were buying this,

here's what I would be looking for.

So it definitely changes.

It's not always, does this handle like an Elise?

And we get into a ram truck and the answer is no, it doesn't.

No, nor should it.

You could fit the Elise in the bed,

but it's not gonna drive like an Elise.

The time and mileage has dropped

very quickly over the years.

But what I love is there's still a lot of cars

that surprise you and I.

It really has to do with getting up to speed quickly.

So not just slow speeds around town,

but getting up to highway speeds and getting it

on a road that has curves in it.

And it quickly reveals the differences in the modes.

When you switch to sport mode and you're in a curve,

you can instantly feel what the car does or does not do.

Playing with modes very quickly,

looking for those dynamics in a car

and even looking for them in a SUV that has sport mode.

That's still valid.

Still putting sport mode out there.

They're still declaring it, yeah.

So looking for that.

But I would say it depends on the car,

but it's definitely dropped very quickly.

Did you see Thomas' question?

I did, I have an answer for it too.

Please dive in.

It's a terrible answer.

Good, I like it.

Thomas says you have $25,000 to buy a depreciated

EV daily, which one do you pick and why?

All the usual suspects, all the ones that I wanted,

although I did find a GV60 with really high miles

for under 25.

Did you, okay.

Good work and those are cool, but all the other ones,

I mean, I went straight to Audi e-tron GTs.

They're not that low.

They're getting there, but they're not that low yet.

I mean, if they're dropping weekly, I thought, by now,

this is where we should be.

They are getting close, yeah.

I mean, come on.

For $25,000, this is my terrible choice.

It is the EQ E350, we're saying he's Ben's,

because here's my thinking.

For less than $25,000, it's got 108,000 miles on it.

So somebody just commuted in this.

Sure.

But you're driving a Mercedes-Benz.

It's still a Mercedes-Benz.

You've still got NAV system.

You've still got all the Mercedes amenities, the luxury,

and you're just going to be commuting and it's a daily

and you're just going to be cruising around.

I'm sure the range was terrible on this

because the 450 that we had was even, it was terrible.

So I'm sure the 350 is even worse,

but still it's ugly.

It's got a lot of space.

It's super cheap, but you're driving a Mercedes-Benz.

It's like what I heard Total Wolf tell George

when he came on board to be their main driver.

Like George, you're still going to be driving a Mercedes-Benz.

Works an F1, it works here for your daily EV.

Oh no.

Sure, I mean, there's other EVs out there,

but I get the Mercedes luxury.

I get the space.

I get the freaking ugly.

It is ugly.

I have one answer and it's not going to surprise anybody

because I've talked about them before,

but I would have to go right back to the one

that I have toyed with, the BMW i3.

By having 25 grand to spend, you can get one like this.

You can get one.

It's a little miles, 28,000 miles.

Here's the white and black,

which actually looks decent on this car,

but here's the thing, after 2017,

these got better and the range got better.

So this is a 2019 i3 with the range extender.

So it's everything you want this to be and it's 21.5.

But Thomas, will you allow the range extender?

Your range goes down to about three.

Three miles.

It's not quite that bad, but it isn't good.

Yes, but anyway.

Maybe you can get to the store back home in a panic.

I think I'm going to stay with the i3

because the thing, even if I don't get these improved ones,

they're still pretty good, man.

All things considered, there's,

I mean, I want to hold a tempest right now.

There's just tons of them.

There are tons of them.

It's amazing, $25,000.

I could get the nicest one on the planet.

I don't need the nicest one on the planet.

I'll get one of these.

It's like 11.

Ooh, what are i8s now?

I mean, I know they're not pure EVs, but okay,

here's one of 2018 in red and black for $12,000.

I could see you rocking this.

Yeah, why not?

That's where I'd go.

That'd be my choice.

Pick it up in Florida.

Why not?

That's scary.

Here's the answer, Thomas,

and that is a used German EV.

True.

Talking about Audi E-Twan.

You're right.

E-Twan, E-Tron, Quattro, GT Quattros.

Talking about Mercedes, whatever,

because the Mercedes E-QE and EQSs, nobody liked them.

Like it was worse than that.

Everybody hated them.

They were so nasty and ugly.

So imagine all those used on the market.

They're terrible looking, right?

Actually, it's still a Mercedes Benz,

and here you found, yeah, the BMWs.

So clearly it is used German EVs.

Those are the cheap ones.

They're still luxurious,

and they're really well priced now.

Who knew?

Who knew we'd be there?

That's something we would buy

and I'm not sure anyone would watch,

but we'd do it anyway.

That's kind of what we do, yeah.

Thank you for all your engagement with the show.

Really appreciate you listening, watching,

sharing the podcast.

That's how we continue to stay in the top 10, at least.

Oh yeah, this is a very successful automotive podcast

worldwide and that is entirely thanks to you guys

and your rating and reviewing

is a big, big help there for sure.

EverydayDriverTV at gmail.com

for all your top of Tuesdays, car conclusions,

car debates, things CEOs say.

What are their-

We're taking it all that way.

Here's the thing, when we post on social media

for questions, those are just questions,

but everything else, send it to the email address

we'd love to hear from you.

We read them all, by the way.

Yeah, we do.

And we're looking forward to next time as always.

Cheers, everyone.

The Ferrari-fication Of Porsche, Break The Cycle, Used EV Choice | Episode 1,042

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