The Ideal SEMA Build, An Impossible Debate, Confidently Buying Sight Unseen | Episode 1,020

Welcome back to the podcast everybody happy Tuesday, and we have to debrief because we went to SEMA

And and and I want to set the stage here. We go to SEMA every single year

Okay, especially equipped

Manufacturer association, which means aftermarket. Let's be honest and there were a few years there where SEMA was scared because there were

Regulations nobody's gonna be able to aftermarket anything on their car. They've survived that now. Yeah, what it really comes down to is builds that make no sense

Manufacturers showing off things. They probably won't build and products. You didn't know existed

That's good, and I don't think that you and I would go more than like once a decade

Except for the fact that all of the sponsors that we're so grateful to support this show they all happen to go

So we can go to SEMA. It's a short flight from the Salt Lake area

We can see all of our sponsors in person, which we don't get to do otherwise

So we go every single year, but you and I also we do this sniper shot thing

We fly in on the first like they open the airport for the flight that we take. Yeah, that's how early the flight is

We take the first flight in

We got there this year when there was nobody in the outside parking lots like the security guards were waking up

Yeah, so which was cool

We got good photos and then we leave pretty much as soon as the show closes that night show closes like five

We make our way to the airport. We're back on a plane. It's an exhausting day. We get a ton done. So we went it's very surgical

It's very in out. We saw so many friends the griots folks and and power stop and so many friends that are practically family

It was really really cool. We had a great time for those of you that said hi

Thank you

We're gonna come back to some crazy SEMA photos because you guys deserve crazy SEMA SEMA photos

But the funniest part is because we do it in one day and we figured out how to do it in one day

Everybody we tell like how long you're here for like just just the day and they're like, oh

Really can I leave with you?

So many of the people that that run the boot, this is the thing the people that run boots at SEMA

You know, we're there on a Wednesday typically

They came in on Sunday or Monday and they're there through Friday or Saturday

So to talk to anybody load in getting in and out in a day is like that's that's possible. That could work

It was very crazy

Starting off with some news up front. We are already hearing about the Ford

Lightning the F-150 lightning

because only about

23,000 examples have been sold as of September 2025 Ford may be considering

Abandoning this it is the worst selling Ford and the irony is the other gas-powered F-150 is the best selling Ford

It's a very interesting place. I mean anytime we talk about

Manufacturers moving away from EVs we get emails. We I'm sure we'll get one now

Feel free to type but what we get emails about how all EV sales are up and I want to acknowledge a very interesting stat here

Okay, okay, because the manufacturers are leaving them because they're not able to make enough money because they're not moving enough volume the

Ford F-150 lightning the all EV

technically year-over-year is up in sales by

1%

1% so technically more people bought a lightning in the last calendar year than bought one in the calendar year prior but back to your point

So far this calendar year. This has sold worse than the Lincoln Nautilus

When have you ever seen one of those the Lincoln Nautilus really the E series which are their vans and

The Mustang at 32,000 so far this year, which has never been a big seller in spite of the fact it gets a lot of press

I think regular F-150s sell about 23,000 in a few days

Well, I mean the joke has always been that Ford makes one of those roughly every 60 seconds

Yeah, and that's ridiculous and I'm not saying we should all buy gas F-150s the greatest thing ever

I'm not I don't understand how that many of them get sold that seems ridiculous to me

Nobody needs that many trucks, but by the way, I don't know last year's truck is still running who is buying all these trucks

That's a separate thing

But but the light and here's the thing we don't know for sure if it's dead

But Ford has essentially just closed the plant for now and they're reassessing part of the issue was

The supplier for aluminum for the truck actually had a fire at the factory

And so it's caused a huge delay and disruption in the production. So combine that with sales

It's not just sales, but it's actually raw materials to make the truck as well

So there's a lot of influences going on and then of course the product planning where they going what is Ford doing?

I mean besides the Mustang GTD

What's the the newest coolest latest Ford product that hits your mind go? That's it. That's not one comes up

You're right, right? Well, and this is the same problem going on at Chevy as well

Chevy's the number I've got in front of me here is that Chevy sold less than 10,000 Selber auto EVs and

The Sierra EV is about 6,000. So I mean, that's not good numbers. Anyway, now, let me let me turn it around

All the cyber trucks litter the landscape anyway

There's not there while they're littering the landscape because they've got problems

It's a separate thing because there's not that many of those either all things can all things told except for the fact that they're all over

Park City and they're all billboards for construction companies. That's all they are and that's really all crazy. Yeah, let's turn this around another way

Sports cars sell often less than the numbers we're talking about. Oh

Sure, okay sure

But if we are really talking EVs and I they're here to stay and they're gonna exist and they're gonna get better

But if we're really talking EVs

Then the materials used to make these huge trucks EVs

Should be used elsewhere

Yeah, we shouldn't be making huge trucks

There is there hasn't been an acceptance of a big full-size truck as an EV clearly the market has not accepted that reality at that point

The massive battery pack in the Hummers. Why is that going in that?

We could make four or five electric cars with that same battery pack these precious materials that are being used to make these

Battery packs for EVs if we're gonna make EVs, let's make EVs that are not full-size trucks and that's the reason I hope these die

It's not because I'm anti EV because I think EVs need to be made to lean into their strengths bigger heavier

Takes more battery power. That's all these trucks do. Yeah, GM is reconsidering things

And I just saw this morning a little snippet about Volkswagen quietly backing off pickup truck production for EVs and doing any partnerships

They're quietly backing away. Of course

Volkswagen still doesn't really know who they are. They've just gone through such turmoil. Yeah, Volkswagen Nissan

Here's Ford going through turmoil

But that is not just limited to EVs only because we are now seeing Toyota after finishing

Replacing a hundred thousand engines have discovered. There's another

127,000 turbo V6 engines that have

Manufacturing debris in the engine put the potential for manufacturing. It's not like they all do but they found enough that they're doing a recall

Causing problems causing engines to not start the ECU problems

Problems for the owners in a brand that is known for just being reliable

Just buy the Toyota just buy the Lexus and you're good and they are having problems and this is gas powered

True and this is an even bigger black eye for Toyota because the whole messaging thing that they've struggled with is the fact that the

Engines prior to all of these turbo hybrid engines were known to be bulletproof

And people bought them because they're gonna run to the earth stops turning

I mean the truck's gonna disintegrate disintegrate around the engine before the engine stops

It's kind of the demeanor and the truck keeps living on anyway, so it's just just be trucks in space for sure exactly right

We're just gonna all take them to space. I mean we've had Piero's in space

So why not take the land? It's at least at least makes more sense the Land Cruiser you can put more people in

Let's but where's that fast and furious 11? Where's the space Land Cruiser?

It would be a space FJ because the Land Cruiser not cool

Okay, be a space FJ fair and a separate thing

Fair enough, but this is really not good for Toyota's impression of going no no these engines are gonna be great to have another

Recall related to these engines is bad news. Yeah, and that's Lexus LX Lexus GX anything with that twin turbo v6

And again potential for that

So if you own one of these vehicles definitely contact your dealer you may have already been contacted by Toyota

But keep an eye on that and so up to this point another hundred and twenty seven thousand and they're just going to replace the engines

It's a good thing. That's great customer service. Yes. Yes on one hand

I'm hearing Toyota sales are up in a big way, but then they have issues to fix like this

So car companies are trying to make money and pivoting and you know that the news will continue

Addness will continue crazy

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So shall we talk about SEMA I'm excited we should talk about SEMA and we're actually going to take SEMA and work that into our topic Tuesday of

This time and that is because you and I walk around the SEMA show every year the joke

We have for the perfect TV show at SEMA

Yeah, that we are not the people because we're not builders

But somebody's gonna take this idea and if you ever hear somebody take this idea they heard of it here

But but the idea is to walk into SEMA

It's a build show you walk into SEMA with just guys with tools and know-how and a bunch of camera crew

And you leave SEMA with a car because you could running you could come in you could come in car fine

I mean four or five years ago. This was really common with body in white like old muscle cars

We're seeing less of that now. Yeah, four or five years ago

You could walk in and be like that's a 1965 Mustang body right there

Yeah, I mean and so you could just start putting parts on it and end up with a car

And that's what SEMA makes possible. We aren't those guys, but we walk around and look at these builds and then we miss so much

We see photos you've seen photos that we may have walked by there's so many people the cars are crammed into so many booths

You can walk right by something that a day later somebody gets a really nice photo of an ego. Where was that?

I was standing right there

I know I see in a few of the photos that I took the thing that I had read about I was wondering where it was

was in the back of my other photo like

You dummy so right there

So we're gonna work our way through all these crazy SEMA photos and some of these SEMA stories

And then we're gonna go to our topic Tuesday for the day that we've made up

Which is essentially what would our each of our SEMA builds be like if we were going to build our crazy SEMA car because we also

Saw do you have photos of the crazy stuff? We saw the ring brother stuff and that kind of I do that's sort of in the category of my favorites

From SEMA so here's that we'll start with the without starting without starting with favorites. Yes understood

Yeah, we'll start with crazy stuff then we'll move to some favorites that that really stood out and then then yeah our own builds

I actually I hate to say it. I came up with four

Builds that I want good grief. I just did one. I felt proud of myself for figuring out one. Anyway, you're the list guy

So it's good stuff. All right, here we go diving in. I

like to just

Be free with the photo taking at SEMA because you never know what you're going to see and from 2002

2003 the Mercedes e-class you remember that car just a nice

Button-down business sedan is now a safari off-roader. Everything needs to be a safari off-roader. Yes, it does

It does these are the ones that are the iconic, you know, they're the taxi cabs in Europe practically

I mean, it's just an e-class. There it is. So this is being shown by passion autos

Com at the RTX booth. Look at the front bumper on this thing. I mean

E-class it's just the dichotomy

Mm-hmm and the world's colliding is what I love the most about these things

Creativity I didn't know you could do that. I I guess it's is that legal is that allowed? Well, sure

Taking it to SEMA. I mean the build it SEMA is the actual the realization of the you know what we could do

It's just a realization of that booth after booth after booth super cool. Although. I'm going to nitpick because

If we're going to do a SEMA build, mm-hmm if you're gonna do it

Well, you got to do it

You got to go all the way the rear bumper on this car is straight tubing

It is not if you will notice a nice arc from a plan view

It is not nicely shaped to really reflect the back the very gentle curve of the back of the Mercedes

Mark to it that radius is not correct. It's just so it it doesn't look quite

Quite to be the SEMA standards here because SEMA doesn't mean just thrown together

I mean this kind of looks that way and it's cool and I like it

But the SEMA builds the ones that really stand out there's battle the builders and then there's just general builds from kindic design from ring

Brothers tons of them. Yeah, they're they're astounding there. Yeah the tension to detail is astonishing

It's incredible. So that has not happened here. The radius is different than this back corner

It doesn't match and it should have had a nice arc and then the body side. This is just straight tubing bender

Get it done. It's just about the right size

That's the kind of thing. I don't love to see if we're gonna make a SEMA build make it long-lasting make it

Don't just slap it together make it amazing here. So cool, but I'm a little nitpicky on that

But you know, we're seeing awesome stuff at SEMA. So if it's crazy, let's go ahead and do it

What I hope is that they drive that I'm concerned. They aren't going to drive it

But yeah, let's go actually rally that somewhere. But anyway, it's gonna need to get dragged out of a bog

Somewhere it's got it's got all the great hitch points. It's gonna be awesome

Moving on here to something that I have been making a lot of noise about over the past years

And that is I wanted Toyota to build a GR Prius. Yes

They didn't they still haven't instead. They have built a Toyota BZ

Time-attack car

It is a full bev

Taking the BZ

Building it up. It already starts with 338 horsepower and it's now 400 plus horsepower full chromoly roll cage FIA spec

And they have totally

Reprogram the ECU because at the time attack car it needs bursts of all of the energy for a lap

Yes for a very short period of time

So they have put a giant wing and a huge rear diffuser

This is what I wanted for the Prius and

Even toned back to like 2% of what this is on the Prius

That could be viable. So GR Prius, but instead they did it to the BRZ or the BZ which

Okay, this just feels like okay wrong application to me when I walked around but there it was yep

and then moving on to the

Camry GTS we drove the first or the new Camry the further for the first time

Yeah, I was making noises about GR a fine everything and make it GR

Well, here is this GTS concept now the power hasn't changed on this even though I love the shade that in it suddenly making it a

Camry not boring. Yep. It's an it's like a Lamborghini orange. It really is fantastic

So the power hasn't changed still 232 horsepower

But what they have done is add eight piston front brakes and it's about suspension and chassis tuning

So breaking power suspension chassis tuning, but GTS from Porsche, you know being the best balance between street and track use

That's what they've done to a Camry. So I applaud them for doing this. I would love to see more power

Come on make this a GR car offer this. I betcha people would buy it

It would be like a low-cost M5 kind of a car interesting this actually makes sense to me and keep the price down

Yeah, don't increase the power too much. Maybe a little maybe just a hundred

But they could do it because that that hybrid platform they're using is is in everything and they can change what the power levels are

It's just a tune at this point. Exactly. But if they're gonna do this

This is not quite up to my 250 to 600 horsepower range. It's only 232 so come on

I gotta crank at least a little bit if you're gonna do it. Let's do it

Well on the now all-wheel-drive too. So the yeah, that's an option. So anyway, yeah, then let's get into some crazy stuff

I told Todd when we arrived at the show that I wanted to see a

Something an EV that has been dune buggyed modified off-road and I found it within about eight minutes

You wanted a lifted EV and I said don't worry somebody's done it and and shortly after saying that

We saw this Model Y up on a lift on huge suspension and actually jacked up and Paul went over and just walk Paul

What Paul was lost for a while? I did get lost. Yeah

Benpack booth sitting up on the lift here, but yeah, I mean this kind of makes it exciting with of the sea of Model Y's

This stands out it does because it's way too high

I'm actually asking as I look at this photo in detail

Is it sitting on the Benpack lift because it can't support itself on its own suspension?

I'm not sure but that's a Seema build for you. It might just be sitting there

It might be perfectly sitting because the tires appear to be on the ground

Yeah, while it's on the lift

I don't question the lift, but I do question whether or not the car can support itself, but it looks cool

Not sure. I'm just we're just going for right now. It is cool. Yeah, there you are

Moving on to a Jeep that I saw that is a cool build surfboard on top looks great lots of money and time invested

It's like an 80s Jeep. Yeah, it's like one of those

What's like a column when they when they made the almost pickup ones come was it Comanche or not honcho

But was it the Comanche but they made like an even after that they made like an X

I don't it was the pickup version pick up version. Yeah Wrangler essentially and they've turned it into a total surf truck

Which is funny because it has Texas plates. Texas is not a surfing destination, but that's okay. We're moving on

It does have beaches beaches

Nobody is going to beaches in Texas's destination by the way through

Smoking as a Texan with possible exception of Corpus Christi, which is way south. You're not picking out a Texas beach

I mean if you're going that far keep going on into Mexico and go surfing down in Baja and go down there

Yeah, anyway, moving on so I noticed this and I thought cool Jeep and you'll

Start to look around the car and as as I got closer

I noticed the exhaust is straight piped and it exits

Pretty much next to your ear. Mm-hmm. So as cool as this looks the exhaust

exiting

Right there straight pipe nothing. It's it's roughly feet of pipe

It's roughly 12 inches the exit of the exhaust is roughly 12 inches a foot behind

Where you would have put the actual hinge if this had a door it has no door, right?

So that means we've got an open exhaust port. It's just at door height. That's gonna be so loud

I think it's gonna be undrivable so cool, but you know, it's a Seema build. Yeah, total soon. We'll take this anywhere

Yeah, speaking of Seema builds. Oh, yeah, I actually really like this

The best El Camino the best Monte Carlo SS El Camino that has ever been seen ever existed slammed body work

This is cool looking super wide very angular incredible fenders. I mean, this is not something you're gonna be able to drive

I hope it's on airbags so they can actually get it up off the floor and drive it somewhere because it's pretty much slammed to the

Floor yeah, and it looks it looks incredible and I am not a guy that likes El Camino

Everything about the body work it's it's like and I mean this in the best way possible styling wise

This is like you cross an El Camino with a DeLorean and then painted it purple. It has DeLorean style. Yes

Yes, I think it's got DeLorean style angular feel to it. I this is amazing looking. I love the way it looks

I'm not sure who it's for but it is very cool

but this was one of three or four cars from a company called Hornblasters and

I have to say that because you're gonna see there. They're listed a bunch of ways behind this El Camino

Was peak SEMA for me

This is a RAM pickup from the early mid-2000s

And if you can't see the photo, I'm gonna try to describe it to you

Jumping out of the hood of this RAM is what I can only describe as a nest of turbos, okay?

They have starting standing proud standing. It's an auditorium of turbos

I don't know what to say here from from the front bumper down all the way in front of where the front license plate would go we have

four

Stacks of turbos all interconnected. They've been interconnected long enough by the way with all this piping that stuff is starting to rust

Okay, I mean it makes me think that this has been shown at SEMA before but we've never seen it until now

I haven't seen it till now

From what I can count in the photo because I was stupid when I was standing in front of a so jaw drop

I forgot to count we tried to count in the photo you go slack jaw like we hadn't even entered the show yet

When we saw this by the way, I was I was practically like I could just go home now

But this is from what we can count

17 different turbos all standing proud of the body work, which means there could be more hidden underneath. Yes

I hope I don't know if this can even move from a light without you flooring it because there has to be so much turbo lag

And so much extra weight plus you can't see in this photo very well

But oh, yeah, this is a company that sells those really obnoxious car horns

They have put every version of their car horn including one looks like a big stadium horn on the back

So balancing out all of the turbo nest on the front is a nest of horns on the back the turbo

This thing has to waste it has to weigh at least

7,000 pounds and it probably it's probably got to be double what it weighed when it started of course easily rims big suspension

But this is a build that's existed for for long enough to have rusted

I have no idea if this can even move under its own power, but I've counted at least

17 turbos

interconnected on this and

I just thought that is the ultimate SEMA. Why couldn't we why shouldn't we build and you get it done

And then you park it by what is admittedly a very cool El Camino, but before a truck that somehow is

Too big for me to reach the handle or the door on the other side

Yeah, yeah, so we've got this triple stack. I walked up to this at Paul can attest

I just walked around all three of these like where am I?

Because the juxtaposition and and it was just like SEMA in the three vehicles

Totally, I couldn't believe it. Yeah, totally. There is just a couple more photos here because you have to see this Jeep

Called Turtley awesome. That's not Paul mispronouncing. That is literally the word turtle

Intended to be used to Turtley awesome quite the quite the theme here

Mmm, and I remarked to Todd that if you had seen this in Moab

The laughter could probably be heard in Las Vegas possibly. Yeah, you would never take a Jeep like this off-road pretty much

So I think it's a Florida car hence the theme

But as I was getting close, so I mean here's the the front grille

I keep thinking to myself the amount of time and money invested in this

I mean if that's your thing cool

I love the creativity because we get to see it and then not have to deal with it

Yeah, we don't have to take it home. We don't have to do anything about it. We don't even need to drive it

It's got the very iconic like Hawaii turtle logo all over it

It's incorporated into the grille and in cutouts and in metal and they've got totally totally awesome

Carved into the front grille so you can see the theme and the name all everywhere you go

I want to direct your eye to the front diff. Okay, so sharp eyes. Yes, there it is zoom in look at the front diff here

You will see the drive shaft is missing completely. This is now a two-wheel drive Jeep

That was either intentional. We wanted to be two-wheel drive

It's either we ran out of money or we couldn't get it done in time

But either way all three of those reasons add up

Well the fourth being the entire theme of the truck and that you would never take this off-road to yes

Not not its point any rock crawling. No whatsoever. You've got the clearance, but

The rest of the vehicle is not suited for this

so all four of those reasons make this the perfect Seema bill the perfect Seema Jeep and

When you see stuff like this, you just walk over you forget to take pictures. You have to force yourself

You're right. You're right. You're just looking at these things and this is just a small taste

Of what's possible

You too could make a car. That's totally awesome. That's really what we learned at Seema this year. It was amazing

Yeah, all right, so we have to move on to some favorites. I've got a couple of favorites as well

There are some amazing things as you know that come out of Seema

Absolutely incredible builds and we really appreciate

Con media and ring brothers showing us around a couple of builds here

I mean the thing you have to understand is there is there's the stuff that we're showing that most of which is outside

That is the we built something and we were showing it off to Seema and I'm sure you're very excited about it

Some of them come some of those same trucks. We have seen every year

We have seen builds that are outside every year so that exists

But then you get into the really high dollar builds and what's crazy about the high dollar builds at Seema is

their blank check builds

They start with an idea and they give it to a chip foos a ring brothers a can dig it all of these that you know

Yeah, that I hate to say it this way, but West Coast Customs

Okay, that's the outside stuff

We're inside here with these folks and this is the stuff that I I

Respect so much but I can't connect with because it's clear that somebody has walked in with a car that they love

To one of these manufacturers these builders these custom fabricators

They're unbelievable and just said I'd like to do X and

When you talk to these fabricators, they keep discovering new things they could do which means like your own project build that you think's gonna cost

10 grand and cost 20 these come in it

They're gonna cost a million and now they cost to because it's just the thing keeps running and building and then all of a sudden

They have the Seema car and the level of detail and then in my mind

I'm just running an expense tally behind the scenes and just go in this was

Astronomically expensive to make one that will never be made again. It's astounding

Thanks to Mike ring for showing us around this car

These photos are taken by Larry Chen and starting off with the

1971 Aston Martin DBS by ring brothers

The engine is a Wegener Motorsports five liter coyote v8 with a custom

2.65 liter Harrop supercharger developing

805 horsepower the modifications I could go on forever, so I'm going to truncate that

I'm going to just give you a very quick list

Widen rear end 10 10 inches the front end is widened 8 inches wheelbase extended forward 3 inches

So it doesn't quite look like the DBS that you know

But it's fully custom engineered structural cage carbon fiber body work carbon fiber clamshell hood custom windscreen windows rear glass

To our knowledge the only thing that's OEM about this Aston Martin with a window switches because I asked Mike

I mean, it's kind of a joke

But I asked Mike because when we walked up to this car he said to me and they've built all kinds of things

They've been around forever. You've seen them. I mean their cars that rears are economy around forever. Yeah incredible looking

But but I was talking with Mike about it and he said this is the most

Build they've ever replaced on a car the most replacements ever done in a build because what they kept discovering is as they would take off a

Piece of the car the original car. Mm-hmm. They would find it to be

Impossible to put back on or too fragile to put back on or the things they wanted to do to it that panel wouldn't hold up to it

So they make a whole new panel. So I said what I said what is still original on this car?

And he kind of stood there for a second. It was like

It'd take me a minute and some of the stuff you wouldn't be able to see and so then when we open the door

He was like well the window switches are original

He was kind of kidding but he kind of wasn't because they had to build so much on this and I'm just seeing again the tally

And that's the reason I'm thinking about it like your typical project because they didn't go into this

Expecting to replace nearly every body panel. That wasn't their plan

But as they chassis as they built in they were like we're gonna place that we're gonna place that and I'm just imagining the blank check

That's adding up and the budget that's being drained. It's incredible, but it is practically a start over it really is

I mean look at the carbon fact look at the details on this car. It's

Unbelievably superb. So you'll see the shifter here want to note this zoom in on the shifter here

I've got a photo that is 3d printed. I believe it's titanium and it's

Veins so it's it's a hollow shifter and those veins reflect the styling elsewhere

There's only one of these shifters. Yeah

Incredible I so hope this car gets driven. I don't think it's gonna get driven

To be driven

beautiful and

Okay, so moving on from the shifter you'll see the valve covers say Aston martini and just a little bit of color

But look at the rest of the chest carbon everything. It's just crazy

Incredible car and then my favorite from the show. Thank you to Adrian Mallory

He showed us around the safari Ferrari that is the elevado v12 built by glassworks DMV in Virginia

30% of this cars parts have been re-engineered or replaced including billet aluminum upper and lower control arms strengthen axle CV joints

Upgraded sway bars and links tie rods

That gives you eight inches of ground clearance and nine inches of wheel travel

Adrian design the rims built by forge line and the GTC for luso

6.3 liter v12 has been given a tune so now it makes

758 horsepower and

581 pound-feet of torque

Just walking around this car Adrian gave us a neat tour of this

Yeah, that was cool and the high-level specs are really impressive the whole thing just made me suddenly really want this whole

Let me let me try to ground it for the audience because this is crazy to say you think about the Ferrari FF

Was their shooting brake thing that was all-wheel drive and it was known to not be very reliable

It was a weird all-wheel drive system, except they refined that to make the GTC luso

So it's the second gen if you will of the FF right right, which is their all-wheel drive in Ferrari's own modeling

It was like this is the car you take four people and skis to the ski resort. That was the concept

Yeah, okay, this is not an SUV. It was there. They're really cool wagon

We have a friend of the show that I mean you you saw it in our piece with Ferrari versus the Ionic

That's right. That's right five in where we did Ferrari versus EV and and could this be as fun

That we've driven the GTC luso at length it really is a four-person car

It is a very impressive v12 front engine Ferrari. Hmm now for this idea

You take that and you make a rally build

With eight inches of clearance and nine plus inches of suspension travel and the and this is where this gets nuts

I mean and and please help me on help me try to relate this because it's hard

After things like the ring brothers build which is clearly blank check like yes, I could buy a jet or I could get this build

It means that kind of stuff. It's like, oh, I can't buy that yacht yet. I'm talking to the ring brothers

I mean, it's that little kind of money. Okay, okay, this is actually affordable by comparison

And and when we walked around this and please don't misunderstand me. It's still wildly expensive when we walked around this comparatively

it seemed affordable

because you can find a luso for a

120 to 200 grand yeah about and then everything they did here

Which is a ton of machining a ton of actual work to make it an off-road. We're hoping to actually get in this

We'll see if we do because it's super relatable, but I'm intrigued by it anyway

The the build here is a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars on top of your Ferrari

That's not bad. That's not bad

Comparatively, it's actually not bad. It's not real everyday driver

No, comparatively, it's not that bad and after walking around some of these builds and knowing kind of the range of

Absurdity some of these builds were that they've done all this and it's a hundred and seventy five on top of your luso

I thought that actually almost feels like it's worth it

Because this wasn't one of those builds like we talked about outside works like we ran out of money or we just decided to not do that

Or we didn't worry about it. This was sweated over all the way down to interior materials was sweated over and they did it very high level

I want to explain the level of detail to you all show it with a few photos here

So they have completely redone the interior Adrienne said they sourced all the same materials that Ferrari would have used and even on the door panels

They repatted it because Adrienne was adamant that this be used

It wasn't just a Seema build they're building more of these these will be for sale

So yeah, 200 250 at the top end for a GTC for luso, but only a hundred and seventy five thousand after that

That's not terrible. So check out this interior the light green leather the everything on the steering wheel

Everything has been restitched redone, but let's get into the details with the roof rack up top

Okay, so that is suction cup to the the very top

But in the back they have done motion control suspension MCS suspension

And here's the remote reservoirs with an actual air compressor in the back

So when you do your safari thing you can lower the air pressures and you've got on board a compressor and then this switches

Well, here's the other side of the the remote reservoir across the shock tower brace in the back

And then the switches up top Adrienne has added titanium switches that have a superb switch feel very high-end

We're all about switch doors. I love it. Yeah, and so this controls all the lighting all the systems the extra systems

They put on the car here's a close-up of that and he said go ahead try it toggle some things

I said, okay, you don't have to ask you twice you love that stuff

Yeah superb and the last thing to give you that an idea of the level of attention of detail

You remember that the rims designed by Adrienne designed by glassworks DMV and built by Forge line

They have now designed their own door stickers

Mm-hmm and put their own

Look here the wheel design that comes on the car. They've designed their own sticker that matches

So whatever they have done

This is the pressures that they now recommend for the build that is an incredible level of detail

And so that gives you an idea everywhere else that they have touched the car and that now makes it seems like a bargain

The strato

Yeah, yeah, is what it's

300 300 400 grand probably for you actually get one maybe a little less at this point

Yeah, and then the Dakar 9-11 was every bit of a half mil

Yeah, those are making less now you're spending you're spending less than that for your v12 Ferrari off-road

Which is a crazy sentence, but but I mean that would be the comparison

I'd like to do is those three cars together be amazing and I can take them somewhere and put them off road to be fantastic

I don't know how likely that is that anybody's gonna do that, but what I like here is also. This is not one of those one-off

Ring brothers can dig it builds. This is something they actually want to replicate

Mm-hmm. I have to say I don't know how many people out there are gonna get a loose

So I'm gonna make it a rally car

But it would be cool and the thing that that they're arguing and that I've heard before is that for a modern city a

Rally setup sports car is kind of great

Yeah, yeah hot holes and things that are less than wonderful and curbs and all the stuff that is normal life that might ding your sports car

Are irrelevant, but you have a sports car chassis. I've heard this about rally 9-11's

I mean Matt Farah said it when he had his lots people have talked about that with the Dakar

Why they love the strato people that we know that own those it's all the same thinking usable

You can just use it and never think twice

So it takes some level of preciousness out because all of the normal door ding stuff of life doesn't matter for this

Yeah, and it's still fun. He wants people to use it

He wants his customers to use these things. I would love to see this actually out there

I stand around and go it is a Seema build, but it is very well done. We want to drive it

I mean, okay one last detail for you the front grille check this out

It's a brand new machine aluminum grille with the lights built into it. That's not stock

It it looks stock. It that's the beauty making it look as clean and stock as possible

But that is a brand new grill there. They're screwing around with the ECU

They're doing everything and of course they're

Distancing themselves from Ferrari from the prancing horse that is make it very clear

Well, it's funny you say that because that's that's the other underlying theme and all of these well-built cars at Seema

Because the ring brothers are in trouble with Aston Martin

Yeah, these folks are in trouble with Ferrari people are getting cease and desist letters

Yeah manufacturers because they're taking these and making I you know

Iconic versions that are kind of the same and kind of different and have the badging of the original company

But don't have the badging the original company and there's this weird and I'm glad I'm not navigating it

But lawyers there's this weird fine gray area line that they're trying to live in here and not get in too much trouble with the manufacturer

But give you these crazy builds anyway

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So I guess that leads us in elegantly

Because we're still banging around at SEMA and we're still talking about stupid money

But I think we're going to go to our own potential SEMA builds

What would we build if we were making a SEMA car? Do you have rules for yourself? I well?

I only did one I only did one car. Okay, and I

Imagine that mine in the grand scheme of building is not going to be too crazy, but I'm going to need somebody good

Because it's everything. It's in body work. It's I'm gonna need everything. Okay. Okay, so I did one car

You'll probably not be too surprised, but I just thought about what would I like to make the definitive version of?

That I would then also like to drive so I want to make it definitive unique looking but still drivable

So you'll understand that some of these things in here

I'm not sure what the best choice is I gave myself a couple of choices on some of them

but I'm going to start somewhere that won't surprise you and

That is I'm going to start with my beloved Nissan 300 ZX

Oh, I got a picture up right now of one from the mid 90s that just that looks stock

I want to start here to give you frame of reference. Okay, right now if you can get as high as a 96

It's the last year they were sold in the US. I think 96 is the only year they did OBD2 prior to that

They're OBD1. I think OBD2 might help this whole project

Okay, but as we've talked to many people at SEMA apparently they make their own wiring harnesses anyway when they do this build

So maybe it doesn't matter exactly. I just thought about let's take this car and make it kind of a money

No object revision of this car

Not being a builder and also having some sort of foot in reality. I think at some point

I probably would just say stop the pain, but I'll talk you through some things. I think I'd like to do to this car

Okay, I love it. I love it. The first thing is I love these cars in the way they look

But I want to roll the fenders out and make it a wider body

Okay, okay, and we've and we've seen a lot of these builds that do that and

I'm going to show you a few pictures as we talk this through Z1 Motorsports for years

Is that a wide-body kit for these Z cars again? I've owned a couple so I'm a little bit obsessed with them

They've had some wide-body kits, but the wide-body kits are their kits. They're they're tack-on fenders

I'd like to get another inch or two out of the actual body work like let's see carbon fiber

I don't know see if we can get body work and spending money exactly that makes this not look like tack-on fenders

Because I'm showing you a photo now that is a revised front-end and you can actually see the wide-body fenders on this

You can see the seams and they don't have the rivets the rivets drive me nuts. I hate the rivets

Yeah, this is also showing the most modern version of the front fascia that you can get on this car

Which I mixed about so if I go back and forth between the original front fascia and the latest modern version of the front fascia

There's things I like about both there was also a late model

Japanese version of the front fascia, okay, and I'm showing a photo of that as well

That is one I almost put on both of my Z cars when I had it was the late night because I stopped selling it here in

96 and they kept selling it in Japan. I think till 01. Okay, but at least 99

Okay, so they made a revision after they stopped selling it in the US that is a little more modern too

I think that front nose piece below the lights needs to be rethought

I want to take these three ideas the original version the most common

Supermodern version and the Japan refresh and just get with somebody and design the definitive front-end for a Z car

Because I don't feel like it's ever been really nailed

Okay, so that looks like where the lights were on the original would they turn into turning into into cooling ducts exactly

So you can see a lot of stuff has been done here

But the other thing going on that I don't have an image for but I would also like to do some exploration

About the lights because I think modern light tech you could make these lights half as big oh

You could make them into slits

Interesting and it would take some playing because I'm not sure what it's gonna do with styling because I actually love the styling of

This car with any of these front-ends. I love the styling of this car, but I think if the lights were half as big and now LEDs

What would that look like how angry or aggressive might this make this car?

It there's there's also the step where you could go too far, but I'm just imagining a thinner

Think about this is not a great

Connection but think about the current lights on the Prius or the Camry that slit like sure shape in technology changes car design

Exactly, so I'm thinking of something in that kind of vein. Let's think in those terms on this front light structure

That's gonna change the whole front end now

But if we're doing the nose panel, let's do new lights

That is just a thin LED panel and rework that front-end. So I'm thinking about that on the Z

But we've got to do a lot more than looks

Okay, and I don't have a photo for this because I don't know that you can do it

But the we got to do a lot more than looks here, which means we have to do engine

Yeah, now the biggest problem with the 300 zx of the 90s is when you open the hood

It looks like there's another hood underneath it. The engine is so well packed in there

There's no space that it's just practically and it's not like engine covers. This is just engine

It's just packed in there to the gills, especially the twin turbo versions. There's no room to work on it

I've known mechanics who refuse to work on them because there's nowhere to put hands

Okay, so my huge caveat in my engine choices here is what fits

What keeps the center of gravity the same or lower? Okay, and what could you actually work on because this needs to be driven

Yeah, so my first choice and I don't have a photo but my first choice for my ultimate 300 zx is the GTR engine

With a manual I would make this thing scream. It's just a unique interesting Nissan engine

I mean you could and I know people have done it. It looks terrifying, but I'm thinking GTR engine with a six-speed would be amazing

If you could get it to fit. I'm not sure it fits

The other the other one behind that would be the current zcar motor, which is a 400 horsepower turbo

Which is interesting would probably also fit

But the reality is you'd probably wind up with an LS

You probably would just an LS and a six speed would just work LS swap it

I mean changes the sound it was the character that's irrelevant because because I know the LS motor fits and I am

Concerned about finding something like they did remember when they did the the Nissan juke with the GTR motor and

Half of the motor was underneath the windshield glass like the firewall

There was it was definitely a car. We're gonna build one up because there's no way to service this thing

Okay, so I am I am that's what Ferrari does with their production cars

But I am I am thinking about I want the car to have

Between four and five hundred horsepower total I don't need 800 that's irrelevant four and five hundred horsepower total

Okay, and I want it to be readily available

So I think GTR engine or possibly an LS what fits better the LS probably fits the best frankly

Interesting, but if the GTR engine would work that would be awesome. So that's part of my thinking here

I'm gonna keep rolling on this idea wise. It's got to have of course upgraded brakes and calipers

We've got a wider car now so I can get a little bit wider wheel on four corners

I know this is crazy because this is not overly expensive wheel, but I love the inky PFO ones

I had them on my first FRS

Every car I've seen that wheel on I like the car better

To a to a car any hatchback miata's the FRS every time I've seen that wheel

It looked better. So what's the custom version of that wheel to fit this Nissan Z car?

I'm sure it'd be refined some along the way, but it's a very simple split five spoke the 10 spoke wheel

But it's a split five. Yeah, okay. I don't need something elaborate just really really great

Some of the apex wheels look similar as well. Sure. Sure, but the PFO one inky something in that style

But done all of these builds they take a wheel they scan it and they make a version of that wheel for the car

We're talking about so that's what I'm talking about. Let's take the PFO one

Let's start there and then tweak it a little bit

Obviously, we've rolled out the fenders this needs the Z car used to have adjustable suspension a

Sport touring it did. Yeah, I need the modern version of that

Okay, can I go as far as like actually getting Magna right in it?

That would be the ideal and it still is switchover, but it's modern adjustable suspension. So you have a nice smooth touring

I'm thinking about how awesome that C8 we had was

Okay. Yeah, when you put that thing in tour mode, it was just so it was like luxury car soft

But if you dialed it down to track mode, it was like let's get after it

Yeah, I'm looking for that. Totally awesome in this Z car. Yeah, so modern Magna ride adjustable suspension

I'd like a sport a tour and a track

Really simple switching. I don't want a big knob and literally let's keep the original switch

I'd like the interior to stay as close to stock looking as possible material changes

But as close to stock looking as possible, let's take that switch and make it a middle ground that is

like

Sport and then you can go tour one direction toggle switch and track the other way

That's cool. You're creating the ultimate one-off GT car that is perfect for daily use. Yes comfortable for road trips

You could track it you're probably not gonna want to but but but yeah create the opportunity where you dial it down on the back

Road, that's really what I'm thinking

So there's all of that stuff going on and then think about the Z interior should have brought a photo think about the Z interior

Yeah, all of the uppers I

Don't think you can do better. It's super clean and all the uppers

Yeah, but then below that it gets into something that I can only describe as carpet texture

Okay, it's like this carpet all of the lowers and all of the touch points have got to be redone in the latest greatest leathers

Okay, upgraded seats all that kind of stuff all that leather

But the uppers the uppers that are that kind of rubberized plastic of the 90s

Why aren't we still doing that in cars that material just works? It's nice. It isn't piano black. Yeah age wonderfully

Yeah

Leave all that and if those panels aren't perfect then buy perfect ones and put them in leave all that stuff which leads us to infotainment

Okay, there's a great waterfall. It's very similar to the NSX Acura the original first in a sex

There's a great waterfall between the driver and passenger in that car and they recessed a little bit

What used to be a tape deck believe it or not?

Into the car and then they had a little pocket panel underneath it

What I'm envisioning is because you don't have all the radio mechanics. It's now panels

We're just talking about LED panels right to do your your apple car plate. Yeah

So I want a panel probably comes out of like a Volvo or something because I'm sure there's a panel

That's the right size. Oh, yeah recessed a half inch back and laying at the angle of that waterfall

I just want to recessed a little bit

It would probably fit really well that put a panel in there that runs carplay and all the modern stuff

But the trick of the reason it's recessed. It's got a little tiny lip above it

That is a panel you can just close

Which just may and that's the same rough material as the as the uppers anyway

So you can just slide the panel closed like an old ashtray, okay, okay, slide the panel closed

So now you've just got the normal 90s gauges. Yeah, I want those gauges

Yeah, you've got everything else about the car looks 90s, but nicer

You don't have a screen going at you or you can slide the panel up. There's your screen get my carplay back

Do the nav if I need it or whatever or slide it closed. That would be the custom build part

That is my ultimate SEMA build

300 zx wide body

New fun engine. That's what I'm doing. That's really nice

You know, you don't see too many people screwing around with these

Z32 300 zx's

Not at this level you see a lot of people playing with them, but they're not playing with them at SEMA crazy build level

I mean, yeah, that's not the car that people takes and goes singer

Ringbrothers or can dig and people don't do that card and then they may at some point

But it's still like 60 70s cars. Yeah that are getting that treatment. This is a 90s car. We're just not there yet

That's really good. Oh, I'm excited to

You've got four. I think and I've got that's for that's crazy. How did you do for it's because I was scattered

I was all over the map and some of these actually exist already because I thought the perfect build would be while it exists

But I started out with going for production that something that could actually happen somebody would like like okay

Brothers in an elevado it's it's the it's the stuff that somebody could make a few of them like an like a car manufacturer could build

Okay, all right. Great. Love it. And that is Subaru

You've seen the new Brattaru Travis Pastrana's new Jim Cona car. I've talked about brats for years

I wanted to do some sort of brat coolness and here he went and did it with a

670 horsepower two liter boxer engine making 680 pound feet of torque six-speed sequential gear gearbox all-wheel drive

WRC spec suspension. So this thing is obviously designed for jumping. It's designed for Travis. There's only one of these exactly

That's the key. It's designed for Travis Pastrana

Designed for how he drives for sure. He can control a tiny bit while he's in the air

He can control the air ducting just a little bit. Sure. I'm thrilled that this exists

Finally, somebody's done something really cool with the brat

but then

You go to Subaru comm

Hmm and you look at their website and you look at all the vehicles that they build you think, huh

What's the one that doesn't match? What's the one that doesn't fit here? Mm-hmm at a low level

Whatever was done to the brat to brat a roue that thing and make it cool off-road rally Safari

Doing the slightest Subaru Subaru 5 the BRZ like make it a Subaru make it lifted make it

People have there's been some lifts some you know with the braid wheels people have done that a little bit our friend Chris

That does Topher he did a minor lift on his and use it as his winter car. It's his favorite winter car ever

He was on my mind. Yeah, absolutely

So here's something that could be put into production again a low level. It doesn't have to have 670 horsepower

It can have 250 300 out of the boxer with a warranty lifted a few lights and

Suddenly it's that thing. We're talking about

You could drive you could daily this we have wintered this when we had our RS RS or the the GT 86

Yeah, but this Safari eyes it's ready to be thinking all the time

Radaroo plus BRZ and go for production now

I also realized that Toyota did this at last year's the 2024 SEMA show when they introduced the Celica concept

So here's Toyota already doing this

Why hasn't Subaru why isn't Subaru gotten a hold of this idea? It's a great point and made the BRZ match their entire lineup

Come on make it. It doesn't have to go this far, but a little bit and Subaru

Accessories are where it's at. I mean that's where the money's to be made people could do all these builds

It could be Legos on this thing and I think that would revitalize sales for the BRZ and make different trim levels

And it would let's say it's only available for Subaru. I love the Toyota version sure

Yeah, Subaru that off-road the rally, you know

You could you tie it you're using Travis Pastrana as the selling point like he flies through the air

But I I'm almost there like I could

Launch this thing a hundred and fifty over a bridge just like you did with the huckster

I could I could do 30 miles an hour over a speed bump and while he does 150 over a rise

I get it. It's good stuff. So I started there

That's my first SEMA build, but it's it's definitely leaning more important towards production. I love it

But then I thought well what I want is a safari eyes or rally Cayman as it turns out

Our friends at FCP euro have done just that a few years ago

They built the FCP euro rally Cayman

It was built for the AR a open two-wheel drive class

Standard engine the M97 engine and drivetrain soul performance headers and exhaust

Re-engineered cooling system and completely reinforced chassis and re-engineered subframe

They have raced this they've driven it everywhere. I think it lives in Arizona and superb

I want to drive this badly, but they've already kind of done it. I mean, yeah SEMA build off-road rally Cayman

Perfection and they didn't even add too much horsepower. They just changed the cooling. Yeah, and they lifted the thing

Yeah, I got it. Yeah, absolutely brilliant

Of course, I couldn't stop there. So moving on to a collaboration

Between Myers-Manks and Tuthill along with Freeman Thomas as the designer. This was actually just

Previewed at the quail mm-hmm in 2025

There's not too many specs available, but as I scroll through the photos

Tuthill is only building 100 of these. It's going to be an

11,000 rpm flat six. So definitely Porsche inspired

It's got full carbon body front center and rear diffs

This is kind of what I want the Porsche Myers-Manks

Safari Porsche. Oh my god. Okay collaboration Tuthill's doing it only building a hundred of them. I mean look at this the interior

I mean, it's rally you can daily this thing

I mean the doors check this out. You got a hop over the sill

So it's yeah, it's that Myers-Manks, but it does have that little bit of Porsche flavor with the flat six in the seats and

Booking across a field

Amazing really amazing. Yeah

But that finally leads us

to the fourth category and as we were

Selling the C8 Corvette from the show mm-hmm. Yeah, I

Suggested to you if it didn't sell and nobody wanted it

What if we turn that into a

Storato kind of a build. Yep. Nobody to my knowledge

No one has touched the C8 Corvette and made that a Safari rally bill like we've been talking about any the Tuthill

Okay, FCPU right from yeah, nobody has touched the C8 Corvette and I wonder if that's coming

Here's the idea the ZR1 X because it's all-wheel drive with the front motor

Okay, and Storato a fire

Well, you could even do it with an e-ray you could do it with an e-ray, too

That would also work obviously be heavier. Yeah, it doesn't need to be the full crazy. Yeah 1,000. That's madness

I like the madness here Lamborghini's done it Porsche's done it. Everybody's doing it. This gives new life to the C8

Storato Storato a five to rotify

The C8 Corvette. Let's just make it the two-wheel drive class just like FCPURO did for a RA

What about lifting it now? I understand that that sports car it's gonna handle completely different

So we're not talking about a lot. It's just like that

Elevato the V12 Ferrari. Yeah, it's just like that little bit of suspension travel a little bit of great ride height

Corvettes are already easy to get into imagine slightly lifted

Sold with the roof rack

Rallify it. This is my SEMA build. Yeah, and go let's go crazy

Let's rally the rally C8

Yeah, the affordable version with just a stingray and then let's do one with the ZR1X and make it 1200 horsepower

electric motor

hybrid rally

Storato

Come on. Somebody's got to do it. Chevy's got to do it. Someone's got to put these cars together mash it up and just make it

Ah

That would be cool. That is my SEMA build. That's very I want all of these cars. I want all four of them

Start to finish

I mean, it's it's no money

It's really no money. I do like the idea of a rally

C8 that does feel like an obvious missing one in their lineup. They've done everything else

Nobody's touched the C8 at SEMA either. Yeah, it is surprising been out for four or five years now

I remember we saw do something rally one. I'm not rally one a great drifting one last year with crazy amounts of steering angle

And yeah, there's definitely been some cool custom builds here, but you're right

That that is a missing one in the market and e-rays are cheap now. Yeah

I mean granted. They've probably got extra weight to worry about but but then then the this ZR1X thing

I don't know. Yeah, okay, giant wings rack

Roof box lights you can imagine. I mean, don't you kind of want to see what this would look like and then yeah

Make the production ones

Just the C8 stingray and it's an option. I get it. I get it

Yeah, or maybe just add the all-wheel the the front electric motor in the stingray only and keep the cost down and

More trim levels keep the C8 going. Wow. Okay. That's what I want. It's good stuff

Final few days for hooked on driving if you go to hooked on driving calm

You can find Thunder Hill Raceway 3 mile in NorCal Saturday, November 15th and Sunday, November 16th

That's coming up. Also look to VIR Virginia International Raceway in a minute in our mid-Atlantic region

That is Thanksgiving weekend 2025

So when you're full of food and full and you're full of family

You're full of family full of family. Let's move on. Yep, Saturday, November 29th and Sunday, November 30th

again Thanksgiving weekend and then the last

NorCal day in December Thunder Hill Raceway once again

But three mile on Saturday and the five mile configuration on Sunday. That is Saturday, December 13th

Sunday, December 14th hooked on driving calm and we're getting a lot of sign-ups there and

We are going to be there. We're gonna be at the last race of the year the Thunder Hill Raceway when we're gonna be up at that track

It's gonna be awesome. Actually, we're gonna really excited about I've never driven the five mile

I'm hoping we get on the five mile. Yeah, very great. The three mile at Thunder Hill is great

Again, that is our HP DE December 13th and the 14th

It's gonna be a really cool event actually got some extras going on that we're gonna announce later

So that's gonna be very cool. We also have the first of our trips of next year is out

We are going to do some sort of Utah based trip some sort of domestic US based trip

We're gonna try to roll those into HOD days as well. It's gonna be very cool

We're gonna do our pilgrimage trip again dates are coming on that soon, but I don't have dates for any of that

I do have dates for Spain and Portugal April 24th through 29th of 2026. This is a new circuit to Sevilla

It's only a few years old right outside of Seville, Spain

Not a little bad place to be with you and whoever you'd like to bring and then we'll have an extra fun kind of

Tourist day and then we wind up in Port Amal, which is about two three hours away

That is the southern tip of Portugal on the beach the hotels on the beach and you get to drive Port Amal

Which is a very cool track as well. So that's happening in late April

So we'd love for you to come there are lots of levels of cars

You can come at a lot of people when they do these trips with us

They will extend it out and do a larger Europe trip. It's a great idea for that as well

But come on Spain and Portugal and race tracks and cars. Yes

Keep your eye on hooked on driving comm because all of our regions are now going to be announcing their dates very soon nationwide

Hooked on driving comm for a track day near you

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Here we go with car debate number one Jeremy H writes to us with the impossible debate

Nobody's ever categorized their debate is the impossible and I don't think this lives up to that title. I think it's quite solvable

Jeremy grew up in cars all stems from his dad's list of great muscle cars that he owned over the years

Not to mention the films that he exposed Jeremy to as a boy like vanishing points smoky in the bandit can a ball run

And of course gumball rally funny got to watch those

Jeremy grew up on muscle muscle car culture, but it didn't reflect his ownership experience

Which includes a lot of Hondas like an 84 CRX

87 prelude si 92 civic hatch

Oh cool, 1990 Toyota Celica GT

Jeremy you had a 1999 cougar

I worked on the second generation of the cougar that was killed when I interned at Ford Motor Company as a designer

They're killed because you interned

Don't make that connection

It was business and I don't know why I had nothing to do with you. It was just fun. Yeah, oh three 350 z Camaro SS

His only V8 actually as he mentioned in spite of the huge list of V8 muscle cars the only V8

He's owned was at 2010 SS. What else 20 2007 Z4 M

He's had an 04 Boxster S Fiat 500 turbo and now an 07 Pontiac solstice

GXP which is very interesting because he's kind of made that a little bit into his almost

Muscle car in feel even though that GXP is a turbo for they actually had quite a bit of power and torque

They're like 250 of both so it's pretty good, but during his ownership of the 2004 Boxster

He really realized what great handling was

But he was also during that ownership given the green light by his Minister of Finance to place in order to build a factory 5

Tribute

427 Cobra, so he's going to build the kit that is the car that excited him as a kid

That plays back into his dad's love of muscle cars, and it actually happened to be his wife's favorite car from the gumball rally

Movie so he was going to build one of these he's gonna own a Cobra his plan

It's build so we have build and we have plan and these things don't

Necessarily connect and go the way you think but the plan one miss each other

Yeah, the budget was about $60,000

Hopefully total he'd get it done in about five years with a five-liter coyote motor in it

And he was very excited about it

And he still thinks and his dad does as well that the Cobra is the greatest meanest and most beautiful car ever an open top

Terror so he was gonna do the bill. He's gonna have himself an affordable Cobra from factory 5

But then they moved so his wife could pursue her dream job good for you on following that that's awesome

They had to start over down payment for a house all-new living situation

So they weren't going to be able to do this build yet

So that's why after a few years of doing that transition

He was able to figure out how to do a Pontiac Solstice gxp because those are both awesome and very cheap

With a manual he's got a tune. He's been driving that and rivaling v8 Mustangs. I love that. That's very funny for the last few years

So he's been enjoying the solstice, but now

Things have kind of started to ease up financially

He keeps looking back fondly at the Boxster of all things the nine eight six first-gen Boxster

He's the one he kind of looks back fondly at but they've reached a place where

financially

He could try to do the Cobra build

So the Cobra build is on one side the longing for the old boxers on the other. He has approval

Mmm a conundrum is appearing here that Cobra strikes me as the ultimate Seema build

That was Carol Shelby doing that for sure before anybody was I mean he yeah stuffing giant engines and tiny cars

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Jeremy says that his MOF gave him the latest fiscal update just recently

She's projecting some time around mid 2027. They should have enough tucked away without standing debt paid off

He can go back to this Cobra build the Cobra Jeremy says pay to invite him blue with the big white dots the meatballs on the door

Goodyear billboards thunderous v8 and then when she gave him permission

She didn't expect his response that was he's thinking about going back to the Boxster pretty fascinating

Jeremy mentions. There's a great drivers club in British Columbia, and he says the community of owners second to none

He misses Porsche. He'd love to drive and own a Cayman

It means letting go of the dream

Because he grew up pining for the Cobra. He just wants this experience. I mean thunderous v8. He just sure wants that

Yeah, but then yeah, I I love that you're missing the Porsche because look at this all the roads that you're naming in southern British

Columbia the Canadian Rockies

Whistler Mountain the Sea to Sky Highway just to the west you're naming these roads because they're not crowded

They're begging to be driven on and he says a muscle car or some variant of it just wouldn't do it justice

Hmm. So what does he do this impossible debate?

Does he spend five years building his dream car hoping that he builds something worthy enough of these roads these many mile roads?

Or does he go to the other end of the spectrum and by a purpose built high precision tool like a 987 Cayman?

Mm-hmm. Is he missing the obvious and is this what a midlife crisis looks like?

You know Jeremy if this is your midlife crisis

Congratulations, they get far worse than this. That's that's that's really excellent

I think if you're happy in your life when you're just debating Cobra build or Boxer Cayman

You're doing okay. That's a pretty good conundrum there. I do like it

I like the fact that what you're looking at here is the roads around you and how you would use it and that is affecting your discussion

I love diving in and this is great Jeremy

This is not impossible. I mean for me as much as I love Cobra's

Don't just get a Cayman. Don't just get a 987. You said $60,000

That's pretty much what you can go buy

used to get a Cayman R

2011 Cayman R those are the special

Brilliant to drive. You're not just wanting a Cayman. You're wanting the precision tool that you're describing

Cayman are my friend and here's my reasoning

you said

The next five years would be your build for the Cobra

Imagine that project yourself

Way into the future five years in the future spending money throughout. It's not gonna be a $60,000 build

Don't add up the receipts at the end. It's not gonna be done in five years

Life changes will happen

I'm not saying you'll move but things will change finances will change yet again things things will change in those five years

To the point where I don't want you to look back and say I would have showed a could I want something because in my opinion

You might be able to do both

Because get that Cayman R now go get that one

Sure, yeah in the lime. I love this color. Yeah, go get yourself a Cayman R

Because I want you to have something that you're gonna drive now. I want you to enjoy that now

You're already

Waiting for it again. You're already ready to go. So imagine the way you feel now and add five years on to that

Yeah, agreed. You're gonna go nuts. Agreed totally

I want you to have a great car for all those great roads and you want the Cayman so buy it now, but

Those those those builds they'll chip away at your wallet, but it'll feel

You won't feel it quite as much over a period of five years because let's say you get to the end and you have your inaugural trip

And everything is fine. You'll be wishing that you had something earlier

You could do the bill you could get this and then slowly chip away at it and build but

Five years could turn into eight. Yes, five years could turn into ten. Yes other things came into play

I mean your your opinion of the Cobra as much as you wanted it

It already changed because you wanted to point back to to the Boxster

Mm-hmm. Yep came in R as my idea for you as cool as those builds are if you're going to get a Cobra get one

That's built the build process

As as much as you'll have into that. I think you'll get too anxious and you'll want to drive something sooner

Interesting you and I actually went fairly similar places. That's probably not too much of a surprise to many of you

But I did go I do have some other cars to add to your discussion Jeremy

But I just want to start here on the factory five Cobra. It's very cool. It's very iconic

We drove an actually factory five built one

It was actually the Daytona, which I like a little more personally styling wise

But we've been in the best variance of what we're talking about

And they are very cool, but I don't get a sense

I don't know if you get this or not Paul

But I don't get a sense from Jeremy that he's ever driven one the original Cobra

Yeah, or the factory five and good point

I hate to say what I'm about to say because I know we all have those iconic cars

But I think this is going to excite you for one drive. I

Think you're going to drive it and be like it works and it runs and it's a Cobra

It's cool and then and then all of the reality is going to dawn on you about the loud the wind the buffeting the

It's it's just there's nothing nice about this experience. It's a very cool experience

But there's nothing nice about this experience. I think your wife's going to join you once

Once yeah, and then you're gonna have to have a real conversation about this has no top

What if we get weather am I gonna drive something this loud is this dangerous all of the reality is going to dawn

Shortly after driving this car and I don't think they drive well enough

That none of that matters

It's not yeah

Iconically they drive classically yeah all of those clothes all the stuff you're envisioning the big v8 and the wind in your hair

And the and the thing and the icon it has all of that

For a perfect day on Pacific Coast highway for three or four hours and how often you're gonna get that it's not the precision tool that he's describing

It's not the scalpel. It's not kind of knows that he kind of knows it's not right for his local roads

I I think I think this car is primed to disappoint you

Mmm. So and not get driven enough

So if you spend five let's just say right at your budget 60 grand or right at your timeline five years you spend five years building this

You're going to have so much of you financially and time wise invest in it

How much will that extend your love for the car because it will extend it you both it yourself? I get it

But I still think you're gonna come around to

This isn't the car I want long term and I say that also because at any time you can go online and find

Many of these for sale. Somebody has built it. It was their ultimate car

They built it and it's now for sale and they're between

25 and 60 grand pick your build style you could potentially go buy a nice one right now for 40 and

Try to sell it in a year for let's say you you sell it for 35 or 30

But you have the experience you don't have to wait on the build and then you can get rid of it

You're saying just try it out because he might not like how it drives or just the

Number one thing here Jeremy is have you driven it because I don't get the sense reading your email you've ever driven an original or

The factory five there and I don't think you're going to love it as much as you've lionized it and I'm concerned about that for you

I think it's gonna be one of those cars where you get it built

You're like I love it because I built it but objectively

I don't love it and I don't want that to happen to Jeremy where he builds it after five years

And then it goes up for sale and then somebody yes comes along and says well sweet

It's already built and I can just have it now and you've put all that time and energy

I mean you also have to ask you have to weigh

What your time is worth and what the satisfaction at the end will be and for that reason I think you see where I'm going I

Don't think those are equal. I agree with you

And I think the thing I also wonder about the here that really is a bit confusing to me Jeremy is you start talking Cobra Cobra Cobra

But the ultimate the alt to that for you is the Cayman

Why are we not talking Boxter? Why are we not talking more modern Boxter? Sure?

You're talking about nine eight seven which you had a nine eight six

That was first gen Boxter before they made a Cayman the nine eight seven is when in oh five oh six

The Boxter comes out and the Cayman follows and they have essentially sister cars for the first time in the early

2000s we have the IMS bearing issue up until oh nine we can track through then there's the nine eight one that you had

Which is the next gen and now it's the seven eight teams ninety two

But seven eighteen everyone think about it. That is the current Cayman. Okay Cayman Boxter twins

you want the open-top experience of

The Cobra you had a Boxter before

Why is the Boxter not in discussion anymore? I'm confused

so I think

Drive a Cayman drive a Boxter and have a real conversation between you and your wife about how much is open top interesting to us

If it's something you might do once a year get a Cayman if it's something you actually are like

I would actually drive around with the top open on a gorgeous day

But and I can't have it if I don't have a Cobra. I'm like wait a minute. They make a Boxter still it's true

They make a newer Boxter

So just get a nine eight seven Boxter s and be happy

So I think the Boxter has to be back on the radar, but if you do go Cayman

Cayman s is fantastic sweet your $60,000 budget Paul already said it you could go as far as Cayman are

But if you are really obsessed with open-top motoring

You do the Boxter spider of the nine eight seven generation

These are one of my all-time favorite Porsches truly. I love this

Yeah, and if you're looking for open-top then the Boxter spider of the nine eight seven generation

60 grand candidly might not be enough, but it could possibly get you into one of these. These are superb

They're lightweight. They work wonderfully

So I just have to ask why not just a normal Cayman?

Why not just a nine eight seven Boxter if you really want to go crazy the Cayman are is perfect

And the Boxter spider is its sister car. That's really good. Jeremy

The first time you burn your leg on the side pipes getting out of the cobra

You'll say that was awesome and that's part of the ownership experience or man. I didn't expect that that hurts

I forgot. I have a wild card though

But you do a card for Jeremy because you're looking for v8 fun

You could just do a c7 you could because that has a removable top panel grand sport. That's a grand sport

I showed a grand sport because I found this fantastic grand sport in their great maroon color

I've seen this in person these cars in this color. They look fantastic

This gets you all the modern amenities you're hoping for this gets you road trip capability

It would be great on a back road and if you really want to open up the top

It's got that removable target panel. You can't ignore this car. It's sitting right there waiting to be acknowledged

And it's front engine front engine v8. Exactly. It's got the v8 roar

Exactly comfortable modern. I think this is your blending Jeremy of what you're hoping for with the v8 fun and the roar

And the angry and the open top all accomplished here

But you want modern car dynamically good great on a back road could road trip also accomplished here

I think you can't overlook the c7. It's the last gen the c7

Generation Corvette the last of the front engines if you can do grand sport even better

But if you can't they're great cars you haven't even mentioned them

You've just you had a camaro and you kind of walked away

Have you driven this because I think the real solid wild card here is a c7 corvette

Okay, super wild card. That just made me think of viper for $60,000. It's the that is the modern cobra modern cobra

For sure for sure. You don't have to build it either. Which is nice. Yeah, I mean, okay, Jeremy play around with that idea

You've got some great ideas here. Thank you for writing to us everyday driver tv edge email dot com topic tuesday's car conclusions and car debates

Impossible not impossible agree disagree. Yeah, right to us

Debate number two comes to us from patrick. He is in his mid thirties and currently drives a golf r

Seven and a half golf r. That's the right golf r. Good one. It's it's pre haptic disaster of the center console

Yeah, patrick and his wife upgraded to this from amazda cx3 because he was slowly losing his mind not having a car that put a smile on his face

The golf r is more fun than the cx3. Absolutely for sure. Yes

But he needed something that could handle winter trips to tahoe. Okay, sure understand fast forward two years

Both he and his wife are back to the office and they bought an outie q5 for cheap off of his sister for his wife

Patrick says while the r is a great car

They could easily sell the q5 for more than they paid for it and he's itching for something more engaging

Than the r. He says the steering in particular is so numb

But the good news here is that his wife

Loves the golf r so theoretically she could get the golf that could sell the q5. She could get the golf r

So it stays in their life. It's win-win and then he gets something else different as his quote-unquote

It's literally in quotes an email his daily, which is great. So then he gives us the rules reasonably reliable

That's a wide swath my friend. I've never heard of somebody's bar being that low like reasonably reasonably reliable

It's fine. He only commutes 45 minutes in traffic three days a week. It's only 25 miles

He doesn't mind high-cost maintenance cars because he's always owned german cars

He doesn't want to get something he knows will be bad and he brings up the e 60 m5 with the v10 and it as an example

I mean, yeah, but you don't have one derive v10. It's actually a problem

He also would like to have rear-wheel drive. This car doesn't have to do tahoe trips. Yes

He's almost always had all-wheel drive cars. He now lives somewhere. He could daily a rear-wheel drive car again

He would just like to do so he wants something beautiful

Because he does automotive photography and the r just didn't motivate him to go out and take photos

Price of under 45 grand ideally and he's never owned a coupe

So some highways allow two-seaters to count for the ho v-lane. I mean, yeah

More than two people two people and up that counts that two people counts

So anyway, so he could possibly take advantage of that as well

And he would like something over 300 horsepower. So those of us including you and I that are chiming in for the 86s

And the miata's out. Yeah more than 300 horsepower

DCT or manual because he's happy to deal with a manual in traffic. Good. Patrick has looked at e 92 m3s

He's looked extensively at the civic type r multiple generations of the caiman c5 and c6 generation

06's and the m2 competition all of which are good. I compliment you on your choices and your research

I hope you've taken it a step further and you've started to drive all of those to see could that fit your life

does it do it for you and

The caiman is probably the most beautiful of all of those. I would say I mean your your request for photography is in my mind

That kind of dominated my thinking in my choices great a car that

Will make you look over your shoulder when you park it and a car you want to take for a drive

Park it do a photo shoot and discover the surfaces discover the angles

Discover scenery with it. I love it. I love it all for $45,000. Well, I'm gonna push on that a little bit patrick

But why fight it? Why

Where are you going? Why oh no, okay? Why fight it? Okay?

I went looking and at plaza motors a z. I found you a

2013

991.1

Porsche 911 it is rear-wheel drive. This has 85,000 miles and it's only 53,000 dollars

That's a lot of car for the money. You said 45

But that makes 53,000 and you could have

A modern 911 you could is that compelling? I think that's compelling

It's compelling except for the fact that when I first glanced at this photo. I thought is that a panamera?

So it just yeah, they've gotten big

It's large, but they are they are still excellent to drive even the base ones are very good to drive

Yeah, I think you should go searching for a 9 11 for $50,000. This one's 53

But just know you can get the early

991.1. It is amazing. They're down that money. That's crazy. That's really exciting. That's very good

And then I kept thinking beautiful something

Beautiful to look at again looking over your shoulder as you walk away from it

And I thought I wonder if avoras are $50,000 and under

They are good news everybody. This is an s. It's a 2014. No, this is a 2011. I think yep

This is a 2011. Yeah early ones are yeah

And you know what this is 49,000 dollars with about the same mileage on it pretty it's excellent to drive

You've got four seats. You've got two seats. It's kind of both

I think this is worth your consideration because toyota engine and you're commuting in it

And I think you would look forward to going to work patrick's in early again patrick. Why are you here so early?

patrick left at lunch again patrick came back at the end of lunch again

Exactly. I love it

The lotus for $50,000 for 49

But if we're going to do a lotus I highly suggest in avora 400 and I found one again at plus motors ac

Now this one is 66,000 because they're not 50. Yeah, not 50. Yeah

But it's no money. It's no money

$15 16,000 more the 400 is a very good revision. I have to give it to you because if we're going to do an avora

Let's get the 400 and above 400 for 10. We like the gt, of course the best

But the 400 is superb

$66,000 amazing commuter. You're gonna want to take photos of it. It it's gonna be

Reliable it's going to run. Well, it's going to be reasonably reliable. Let's put it that way

It's well above the bar of reasonably reliable for sure. Yeah. Have I sold you yet? I think

You're gonna want this. I think you should drive a lotus avora commuting in it. You're gonna look for excuses to

Anything are we out of lunch meat again?

He leaves it every break. I need milk. He leaves the work at every break. It's very funny. I do love it

That's great stuff lotus avora 400 for 66,000

But again, if we're spending that much another 911 in there

But something beautiful fast great to be in great to commute in you're gonna look forward to it all the time

Well done very good. You and I overlap some on this actually but but I like it when paul champions lotus

That just pleases me

Because we talk a lot of Porsche on here and every now and then I get feedback that I should stop talking about lotus

So I like that when I don't talk about it. You talk about it. That pleases me very much. So we're gonna

You were talking about caimans. I was great. I love that. So patrick. Let's first talk about the bmw's that you brought up

I like the e90 very much. I like that whole generation e90 e92. Those are very good that v8 engine is awesome

But that v8 engine is awesome when you get the chance to wind it out, which is not

commuting

Okay, so what you do want is the m2. This is the original m2

I've got on screen or yes the competition which has a totally different engine and both of these are excellent cars

There is a cs, but it's 100 grand that up cs is awesome. So either of these cars are in your budget

I think I think the original m2 is getting slept on

I think it is a much better car than they are selling for right now

Yes, I think everybody has thought about the competition and up because of the engine change

And I think this original m2 is superb. It is worth looking into it would absolutely be the commute

The thing I like about the m2 for you is this is a car that vanishes in traffic

If you don't know what it is

But it's still a car that's cool enough. You can take a really nice photo of this car and be like that's my car

Which is interesting. So m2. I'm all about that. You brought up the c5 and c6 corvette

c6 and above my friend

The the c5 is really cool and the pantheon of corvettes. It's really cool. I do like it watch our american original film

It was one of my favorites. I do like it very much

But it feels very old at this point especially in the interior

It doesn't drive old, but the interaction inside feels very old

The c6 still feels old, but is this is an I think one of the best

Most timeless corvette designs. I think this is aging very very well

And if you get the z06 you get that 7.2 liter engine

Which is a rarity the 427 engine in the corvettes was very rarely in that car only a few generations got it

This z06 has it that is a very special engine if you're gonna go corvette

It is the z06 my friend from the c6 generation. He's got more money to span. He doesn't yeah, I mean yeah

Go for it. You could certainly go there

The supras is being overlooked here

The supras if you're looking at m2 look at the supras. I have the fantastic yellow

This car comes in an amazing yellow very few cars look excellent in yellow and even fewer look best in yellow

I think the supras looks best in yellow. I love this car in this color. It is awesome find yourself a supras

This toyota is the best car. BMW makes I've said it many many times. This is this has the b58 engine

It is a superb car get the newest one you can get a manual if at all possible the manual of this car

I think is going to be an icon

I think it's one of those cars in five or ten years. They're going to be trading

Well above everything else on the market super wise the the four cylinders and the the early

Six cylinders with with the auto are going to be selling 10 grand less than the manuals

I bet you money the manual in this is one of the best manuals on sales if you get a manual supras

I would take that over the m2s all day long

Fully modern car you would love so I've got to go there agreed one of my wild cards is this

The jaguar f type that's pretty taken photos of it's pretty get any version you want every time we drive this car

We're reminded how good it is. It doesn't matter the engine. They're all over 300 horsepower. It's a good color great

Yeah, I've got an orange on the screen right now

convertible or hard top

I love the hard top on this but convertible or hard top great looking cars good driving cars

You're wanting a fun commuter accent on commuter

You're not out tracking. Mm-hmm. This car is going to shine at that

It's going to be a great car

So the jaguar f type is definitely in there and then my further wild car because I thought it might be too far for you

But paul's already talked it up and down and that is the avora

I'm actually showing a very early avora on screen

There is no question in my mind that if you get an early car

That is either the before the 400 refresh and possibly even doesn't have the supercharger

You can find them in your budget for sure. Oh, I looked they're all under 45. There's a lot of them there

You you do really want the s you want the supercharged version the the base version is still it's right around

300 ish horsepower and it just you're aware when you drive it that the chassis is waiting for more

Yeah, the car is just ready for more, but it's still a really good car to drive

So see if you can get an s these early avoras are great and it's reasonably

It is reasonably reliable. Absolutely. If you can do the 400 if you stress the 400 it is better

Yes, but I I did end up on the uh avora as well, but lots of other options and I'm just going to say one more time

Supra super is awesome. I think the super is the answer. That's great. Patrick. Thank you for writing really appreciate it

Happy hunting. Go search on auto tempest.com slash every day. So they know that we sent you

Let us know what you got right to us at car conclusion

Speaking of car conclusions, we're going to go real quick into kyle's car conclusion because it's amazing

And it relates to what just happened with patrick's email where he said he's willing to do

Get something that's a reasonably reliable and his car that he brought up as a full avoid was the e 60 m 5

Well, patrick, I have a story for you and that is right down here to kyle

kyle likes having a car he can work on

He likes having just cars he can play with and he's had lots of cars that he's played with and had fun and done repairs

And made him work wonderfully. He's he currently owns a 1969 dotson 510. He's fully restored completely

He has a 997 dot 1

9 11 that he completely loves but it now just runs so well that it doesn't need anything

There's a weird sentence in the middle of kyle's email

He owned

A fiesta st that he loved until it was gone due to a drunk driver crashing into it next sentence

I had an indy 2 meata that I loved now gone due to the same drunk driver crashing into it

I have to stop for a second. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. I am hoping what this story means

Is they were both parked on the street and the same drunk driver hit them both?

That's what i'm thinking too. Yeah, because if it's the same guy

Hitting two different cars on two different days. We need to find him. He needs to not drive anymore. Yeah

I mean, it's terrible either way, but I am hoping at least those cars died together

That is my hope here because that's a terrible sentence

So you lost the fiesta t that you loved and the indy 2 meata, but what where you are

Is a sentence we don't often hear

your kind of

I want to work on something bored

The 997 runs too well the dot's and's done. Did you see this sentence at the very top of his email?

Kyle says when you realize that you have the rest of your life to deal with car expenses

What's the hold up?

You need that on a shirt

I've got the rest of my I know the rest of my life. I'm gonna deal with car expenses

So let's get busy just get on with it. So he decided he wanted something amazing

That was just kind of weird because it might not run. What's scary. He said he could afford an e 60 m5

That's right the one with the v10 and he said that's right the one that everyone says on the internet

You must avoid

So he and his girlfriend

Flew up to reno, nevada and bought an m5 from a dealer

2006 50,000 miles smg interlagos blue. That's a gorgeous car. That's a beautiful car bumper to bumper warranty

And they took a road trip back down to southern california from reno, nevada

Taking all of the best roads in the sierra nevada mountains and laughing the entire way

They have it. Ah, she's ecstatic. He said they were enjoying the

500 miles plus of driving with the v10 power and sound every hour or so

They would freak themselves out because they take a big corner and the bolster would inflate inflatable bolsters. They'd be surprised by it

They are thrilled. He knows exactly what he's in for. He's hoping for it, which is what's so crazy

He's loving it. He's thrilled to buy something. He's mainly sending in this car conclusion to just say if you are a person who is thinking about

I'd like to get car x, but i'm worried about it

He is just standing up and waving the flag for take the risk for a great experience

He is loving his e 60 v10 m5

Best road trip of their lives. I love it. Kyle also says he's gonna write back in three years when his warranty ends

We'll see. I love it

Moving to audience questions on social media. Thank you guys for writing to us on instagram

Let's see matt garr 82 asks me to share my design brain

What design lines suggest that a car will age well versus age poorly?

I have two examples in my mind and that is the chevy hhr

Or pretty much anything from that area, you know the pt cruiser era the chevy hhr

Actually is the same designer who left christler and went to chevy and designed chevy's version of it because

That was the popular thing at the time and chevy wanted one chevy says we literally need one of those

They they snipe the designer and they have him make the same thing for them

So that stands for a high heritage roof

Like you wanted to know that the bread van the hhr

So that grill you could describe the shape of that grill

As a sort of a horseshoe shape. Could you not? Yes sort of a squished horseshoe shape. Yes

Well, look over on the begatti veyron and the begatti shiron

That also has a horseshoe shape on the front. It's definitely more a a clearer horseshoe kinds of shape

But still

I agree. Yeah, I kind of describe when you're describing those lines, but they are vastly different in execution

So it's not just a single line one has aged poorly

One has aged very well. I think the veyron still looks good. It still looks very exotic and yeah, yeah

Stateline very very imposing very expensive too. So it's not just the line that would suggest

Well, that's going to age poorly because we both used a horseshoe kind of a shape. It's a great example. I love that

I see what you're saying. Yeah, I wouldn't have thought about that. It's the the era of car those retro the retro phase

That gm went through

Yeah, let's not lean too far into the retro thing whereas alpine 110s it harkens back. Yeah, but it's not full retro

It's not trying to pull everything out. Let's stop

Creating mustangs and while the only thing we have to look at is all the ones in the past

Let's throw it all out just like chevy did with the corvette and make something different and unique and new again

Come on. Yeah, so it's not just a particular line. It's proportion. It's the era of the car

It's people's perception about it. How well did it sell? There's so many factors that go into

Does a car feel like an aged poorly? Well

All those influences in your mind like nobody wanted it people laughed at it

Sure, it's kind of a dumb underpowered poorly executed not that safe

Doesn't really drive well kind of a car whereas if all of those things are applied to

Something similar that

Yeah, I checked all the boxes drives great. I totally remember that like an 88 honda prelude

We all have fond memories of that. It wasn't very powerful

Sure, yeah, yeah, but that has aged so well sure crisp 80s blocky design pop-up headlights

If I describe the car to you. Well, it's pretty slab sided and it looks like a door stop with a

glass compartment for the humans that isn't too interesting

But yeah prelude that sweet prelude

Interesting totally different feel

Secret audience question coming at us. He says this or that driver upgrade question

He's relating it to hooked on driving. He said is it better to take a car that is in no way a sports car

His example is a minivan, which I don't think you should take on track

Take that to a track day and get professional instruction or

Take a dedicated sports car and drive enthusiastically

Let's say

Up to 20 miles an hour over the speed limit on a canyon mountain coastal road slowly teasing better times out by experimenting

Secret this is a very interesting question now first off

I want to I'm going to caution you one place and that is

We're not going to have a minivan at a hooked on driving event

but

All the way up through performance suvs we do allow now because the reality is you get a higher center of gravity

The cars just get far worse to drive, but you can still learn in them

I've seen ultimas camry's

Centres all this kind of stuff it hooked on driving days and track days in general and it is amazing

What you learn in the wrong cars? I would say bring a car

Not an suv or van and you will learn more going to the track day with a instructor and here's why

If you do it by yourself on a mountain road

You're suggesting you're timing yourself

Which is quite problematic because something in the real world is going to interrupt

And you're going to be having I promise you your best run ever and something in the real world

Dear traffic, whatever is going to interrupt that perfect run

And I think once you start timing yourself in public it starts to become a

A recipe for disaster potentially because there's always the stuff you cannot control at least on a track day

We're all going the same direction. There's no counter traffic. Yeah, there's no deer running across the track

I mean with rare exceptions the things are calculated and there's safety measures for you to be able to go fast as possible

But the but the bigger problem even than that is you're going to reinforce bad habits. You don't know you have

Yes

The best one the one that is most common is you're looking too low

Yeah, you're looking right. I'm looking down at the fender as I go around the corner versus up and around the corner

And you don't even realize that because you're a commute driver. We all are this by the way your commute driver

This is the the inclusive we we're all commute drivers

And you don't realize how low you're looking until you get to a racetrack and go

Oh, I need to be oh, I need to be like way up there way up there and it totally changes your driving style

So a day of instruction at a hooked on driving track day in the wrong car

Here's the thing that will translate back to your sports car

Absolutely

You can't bring the right car, but you're going to be a better driver in your sports car

You're going to handle your car better

We want beginners for exactly this reason so you can learn the things that you should be doing differently

I'll give you another one

I'm driving one handed

My other hand is sitting on top of the stick shift. Oh, yeah

That is a very common manual transmission driver habit and it is a bad habit

And once you get to driving on the track, you've got both hands on the wheel

And it's amazing how much more control and fine tuning you can do because now you're not gripping the wheel too hard

It's this nice delicate thing exactly

So get away from those bad habits by having that instructor in the wrong car and carry that forward to all your driving

It's time to play hero or zero very quickly

I'm liking this cabless nine on this week's edition high mileage hero or zero same stipulation as last week new contestants

Okay, first one is the aston martin v advantage one day after the factory warranty expires

Okay, number two an early 2000s cayman. Well, that would be o6 is the earliest cayman with the original ims bearing

All right, and third is the bmw m5 the e 60 v 10

It's back with original rod bearings

Aston martin v8 vantage after the warranty ends ims bearing still on your o6 cayman

and v10 m5 with the original rod bearings

I'm going to put a couple stipulations on this. I'm going to assume

Big assumption that all of these have been properly serviced to this point. Okay

I'm just going to put that stipulation on just not like somebody who's over meticulous

It's just if it needed to be done. They got it done. Okay properly serviced

Which one do I think is the least risky? Is that the question pretty much pretty much a properly serviced cayman

Is probably the least risky of those three if it's been properly serviced and genuinely driven

I I was going to say I would add to that driven. Yeah, I'm assuming all of these all of these have been driven

Yeah, a cayman that driven and I would stay away from the o6 cayman that has really low miles and is just sat

I'd stay away from that one, but personally I'd get the vantage for me

I kyle has changed our minds about the v10. Everybody's going to go get e 60 v 10s

He's going to write back in three years. We're all waiting to see his experience. Yeah, that's going to go

And I'll bet you it's probably going to be nothing happened. Wouldn't that be funny? Yeah

I'm going to go for a

Driven cayman

I'm going to put my money where my mouth is and go for the cayman with higher mileage from o6 o7

Because I had one it freaked me out and then I learned go drive your car change the oil regularly

Just drive and drive and drive and you'll see those ones that are

Higher mileage. They're they're still fine. It doesn't happen everything having the ims unchanged

Doesn't mean disaster is about to happen now. It's doing. What's the other one the

Delaminating of the cylinders or something. There's another thing that's happening to that era, but drive them. Yeah, absolutely. So

That's good. I like it. Thank you guys for all your questions

We really appreciate it write to us every day driver tv at gmail.com and hooked on driving.com for a track day

You're near you and huge. Thanks to all of our sponsors

That make this show both the podcast and the show happen really appreciate it support our sponsors

And we're looking forward to next time as always cheers everyone

The Ideal SEMA Build, An Impossible Debate, Confidently Buying Sight Unseen | Episode 1,020

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