A detailed exploration of the Ineos Grenadier SUV, featuring insights from Andy and Mercedes-Lillian Thal, who are preparing for the Alcan 5000 rally. The episode covers the Grenadier's rugged design, off-road capabilities, and unique features like differential lockers and a utilitarian interior. The hosts discuss the vehicle's performance, MSRP, and its competition with Land Rover. Listeners also learn about the upcoming rally, which spans over 5,000 miles through challenging terrains, and the Thals' personal preparations for the adventure.
Topics:ineos grenadieroff-road capabilitiesalcan 5000 rallydifferential lockersrally preparationsvehicle performancerugged designMSRPutilitarian featurescompetition with land rover
Embark on an automotive adventure as we reveal the rugged elegance of the Ineos Grenadier SUV, with our insightful guides Andy and Mercedes Lilienthal at the Ron Tonkin Gran Turismo dealership. The Grenadier emerges as a homage to the classic Land Rover Defender, equipped with a mighty BMW three-liter inline-six engine and a ZF automatic transmission for conquering untamed territories. Experience how its off-road capabilities, including triple lock differentials and a two-speed transfer case, redefine the 4x4 landscape. Our conversation drives you through the vehicle's design philosophy and practical features that make it a relentless force against any challenge the wilderness might throw its way.
Feel the pulse of competition in the thrilling Alcan 5000 rally discussion, where precision and endurance are put to the ultimate test. Andy and Mercedes unveil their strategy for navigating through extreme conditions that demand more than just speed—it's a quest for reliability, navigation finesse, and the triumph of spirit over the elements. We're not just chasing the checkered flag; we're celebrating the human element behind the wheel. And for those who live and breathe car culture, we extend an invitation to our next live In Wheel Time car talk show, where the rubber meets the road in discussions that fuel the passion of car enthusiasts everywhere.
Tune in, turn up the volume, and join us on this riveting ride through the heart of automotive fervor.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
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"...ighly in the most recent survey include the Chevy Corvette, at number one, with 93% of owners saying they'd ..."
Select text to request an explanation
From the world famous Sugar Shock Studios outside Houston Texas.
This is the In-Wheel Time Car Talk Show.
It's a bonus look-see, a walk around of the all new Ineos Hope I'm pronouncing that right with Andy and Mercedes-Lillian Thal, yeah, plus, we'll get you caught up on stories making automotive news headlines this week.
Howdy, along with Mike, out of this world ours.
We always need more.
Jeff Zekin, I'm Don Armstrong, glad that you could join us.
All right, let's get up to the north.
I assume the northwest, that's where they usually live, but I don't know where this Ineos dealership is.
Andy and Mercedes-Lillian Thal, good morning.
How are you guys Look at you?
Look at that.
Good morning.
We're in a different place right now.
Where are you?
We are at Ron Tonkin Grand Tourismo in Wilsonville, Oregon, which is the Ineos dealership for the area.
Wow.
Well, that's a fancy dealership there.
I like it All right.
Do you guys pronounce it right, ineos?
Yes, ineos Grenadier is the name of the vehicle.
Ineos Automotive is the name of the manufacturer.
Okay, Well, I'm a little bit paranoid because, you know, I really messed up your vehicle when we first met and I gave it a name that really wasn't appropriate for children under you know, 20.
So I wanted to make sure that I got it right.
That's what I thought that it was.
So we want to do the walk around.
We want to see what it is.
This is a brand new manufacturer.
Where are they headquartered?
So they're headquartered in the UK.
The vehicle itself is manufactured in Hamburg, France, which is right on the border of Germany and France.
Okay, and is this their very first vehicle?
It is yes.
Okay, so what about the MSRP of this?
Is it an SUV?
I can't tell.
Yeah, it is an SUV.
It's a body on frame solid front, rear axle.
This model, the trial master, is triple locked front, center and rear differential lockers.
It's very, very capable off-road.
It is a four-door SUV with a barn door style rear door configuration.
So is it kind of competing against the Land Rover?
You know, the whole impetus behind this vehicle was the owner.
Sir Jim Radcliffe wanted basically to make a new Defender, so he decided to, and this is his interpretation of that vehicle.
Interesting.
And the most ruggedized version of it, and the MSRP here in the US starts, I believe depending on how you can figure it around 79,000 USD.
I got you.
So it really does compete head to head with Land Rover's counterpart to that.
Yes, yeah, interesting.
Now is this an electric vehicle.
No, no, not yet.
So this vehicle is powered by a three liter inline six BMW power plant.
It's a turbocharged, twin scroll turbo.
It's an engine that is proven by BMW.
It's actually the same engine that's in the Toyota Supra, so it's a A 3.2
.
It's a proven power plant.
It's not some brand new thing with technology.
No need to reinvent the wheel.
Interesting.
Okay, well, that's not unusual for especially a startup manufacturer to go to an engine supplier of some sort, and I would imagine that that inline six cylinder puts out some pretty good torque and power.
Yeah, it does it.
Does it does it just a tick under 6,000 pounds, but it does move out pretty well.
I've driven it just a couple of hours and I never felt like come on go.
It had plenty of grunt, especially down mode, which is where we're running it, yeah.
Yeah, I would assume that it's geared right as well.
Is it an automatic transmission, or is it a manual or both?
It is.
It's an automatic, it's a ZF transmission.
It does have a legitimate two-speed transfer case.
So the axles are 4 tens.
They're supplied by a company called Carrero out of Italy.
They make a lot of agricultural tractor axles like John.
Here again proven Proving company.
But it's got four high, four low and then it's got those diff lockers as well.
So it's definitely going to tackle anything we need to take it on, yeah.
Now the lockers on the on the axle.
Do you have to get out of the vehicle to engage them, or can you do it from inside?
You can do it from inside.
So basically there's an off-road mode.
So you would put it in off-road mode, you'd put the transmission in neutral and then Then you go ahead and put it in manually, move it into Uh, the four low position, and then you have overhead Switch can a switch panel, and then you can select your rear locker, then your front locker, etc.
So the interesting thing about the Grandeur is it is mechanical when necessary and electric when they need to be.
Also, so it's not Totally plump full of a million ECU's, it's only as many as they need.
So you still have manual four-wheel drive engagement.
It's not a dial that could possibly fail out.
So you'll pray.
How does it ride down the freeway?
It actually rides surprisingly.
Um, I was, I was surprised.
It's.
It's taught, but it's a.
It's solid front and rear axes.
This is not designed to be a roll voice.
It's designed to be a very useful tool and, uh, it's.
It's unapology, unapologetically truck-like, but that's what it was supposed to be.
It's not supposed to be a posh luxury SUV.
It's supposed to be a very capable SUV does it have a short front and rear overhangs?
It does.
It has very short front rear overhangs like I don't know about.
Maybe you know yeah.
It is very short.
Front rear overhangs.
It's got very ample brown clearance skid plates.
Uh, I'll show you during the walk around, yeah okay.
Well, let's do the walk around.
I'm ready, I'm anxious to see it.
Sure, yeah, absolutely so, um, use the front of the vehicle.
So right now we're actually, uh, it comes with michelin Uh, I'm sorry, excuse me, it comes with bf goodrich KO2 all-terrain tires.
But because we're going to be doing thousands of miles of snow and ice, we switched over to a michelin x-ice tire, but in the same size 265 70 r 17,.
But we wanted the maximum winter traction possible.
So, uh, but you can see, on the side, here they have this t-track and you can actually mount accessories, shovels, anything like that that you'd want, on the outside Cases, going and so forth.
So it's got this utilitarian aspect to it.
When you open the doors you know it's not, it's not, uh, you know, current in letter here it is, it is more functional and it's, it's, uh, it's comfortable.
Well, by far, uh, more comfortable than I expected it to be.
So your center gauge, your gauges, are in the center on the, on the lcd screen there, and then you can see the.
Perhaps it's a little dark there, but you can see it's uh, you've got your automatic shifter out of a BMW and then your transfer case as well, you can see.
Also, the switch here is very sort of a utilitarian.
It's very, uh, purpose, purpose built and it's up there where you can reach it easy.
It looks to me.
It looks to me, you guys, that, uh, that the dash is a little bit lower than it would be in a normal vehicle.
Is that?
Is it just a Vision that I'm seeing, or is it really that way?
No, it is a little bit lower, but the nice thing about it is sort of like some of the older land rovers is it's low, so you have a nice field of vision.
I can see the front of the vehicle in the corner.
So when you are off-roading or in a challenging situation you can see your corners.
And I've been in off road vehicles before where you can't see anything and you have to rely on your spot or tell you where to go all the time because you can't see.
Yeah because the windshields this big.
I'm I really like the idea of having that track along the side so you can Mount, mount your shovels or whatever else that you've got to take with you.
Yeah, it's standard t-track.
So we'll open the back door here real quick and we have the uh Seat covers all in here.
These are a nice, real sturdy seat cover, but we've got a hundred and twenty volt outlet in the back and then usb as well, so we'll have plenty of places to plug in.
And that's a little dark, but and there are there's a couple of things up on the ceiling here.
You've got your grab handle, but you also have some uh sort of proprietary mounts.
But uh, the rear is really interesting.
So it comes with this.
We have this ladder so we can get up on the roof.
We're carrying 10 gallons of fuel up there so the we don't run out of fuel or I'm not worried about us, but other people sometimes will run out of fuel and we're gonna carry 10 gallons of fuel with us up there.
So you can see this is like an 80-20, 70-30, I'm exactly sure the ratio.
But you can see how this opens like a hard door.
We've got some of our recovery gear from fact 55 in here.
You may be wondering why there's coolant in here.
Well, the fact of the matter is is when we're going up to an area that can sometimes see 60 below zero.
We decided to swap the coolant mix out for a little bit older mix.
So from the factory it's about 36 below zero Fahrenheit.
With the mix that we're putting in, we're going to be good below 60 degrees Fahrenheit and that's an ambient temperature, not a wind chill.
But you can see your drip on the way.
So we've got more T-track back here and this is going to be absolutely great for us.
So you can just push these little, or you pull them, push them down.
You can move them around.
Well, you can.
We haven't used them yet.
Yeah, you could lock things in, yeah.
Yeah, so we're going to have these.
We've got, and up above too, right here, and there are, excuse me, tie down ports, tie down ports, and they're low rated too.
They're not just the real lightweight ones, yeah, they're heavy duty ones, yeah.
What she said.
So, andy, are you going to utilize those out of the exterior tracks for any of your gear?
All right, will you utilize those?
We probably won't.
So, being the temperatures and whatnot that it's going to be, that stuff's going to get completely covered in snow and ice and salt and all that stuff.
So we're going to we'll have plenty of room here.
So, plus which, we have this roof rack.
So this is a Rhino Rack that came from the company it's from Ineos, I should say.
They partner with Rhino Rack.
So this is a full length roof rack.
We've got our max tracks up there, we'll have our 10 gallon, 10 gallons of fuel.
And that's also a Rhino Rack, double jerry can holder.
So we'll be utilizing the rack and then the interior tie down.
So does Ineos.
Did they actually have an accessory package that you can buy or accessories that will fit this thing?
Absolutely so that Rhino Rack is one of the accessories You've got also.
You've got, for instance, we have rock sliders on this one.
The rock sliders are another factor accessory.
If you don't want rock sliders, they offer running or steps.
So those are more accessories.
They have a whole host of other accessories and then, of course, you can order these as you choose, like this one has the snorkel on the front.
We've got the roof rack, which was an accessory.
We added the max tracks and the Rhino Rack fuel cans, the Rhino Rack fuel can folder.
So this is, of course, the snorkel here that goes down into the air box.
So that's going to help keep us keep some clean air and it's great that it's kind of rear facing.
There were some people on the 2020 Alcan who had snorkels and when they opened their air box, it was basically a snowball in there.
So is that the actual vehicle then that you'll be using?
This is the actual vehicle.
We're one step away from being ready.
The only thing we need to do is put our decals on it.
So, but we're going to switch.
We're going to switch around here.
I'll let Mercedes do some talking.
We'll let tub Michael send you some in-wheel time decals.
Oh great.
Great, yeah, we know where they'll probably go onto the luggage, yeah.
So we do.
You've talked a couple of times.
We haven't really talked and explained exactly what you're going to do with this vehicle, so we need to touch on that real quick.
That's perfect timing.
So Andy is the driver, so you pretty much guessed, and I'm the co-driver of the navigator.
So the Alcan 5000, actually this is perfect.
I said way, thanks, guys.
So the Alcan 5000 rally is in its 40th year iteration and this year it is going.
It's basically a 10 day time speed distance rally and over those 10 days we travel over 5,000 miles.
Oh my gosh.
We're going to put a picture of the map up here on the screen real quick so people can understand.
Yeah, perfect, I mean 5,000 miles.
You know 4,000 miles, but look at the map and see where it goes.
Exactly so.
We start near Seattle and we basically go all the way to North all through British Columbia.
So we start from Kirkland to Yellowknife, to Whitehorse optional route, all the way up to Coldfoot, alaska, down to Valdez and we finish an anchorage through Fairbanks.
Oh my gosh, think about that for a second.
Yeah.
I sense you have to be comfortable driving on the snow, hence why Michelin X-Ice tires are going to be extremely instrumental in this journey.
So I want to know do you have a new snow parka?
We do, we do.
Because I would imagine the fashionista that you are, you probably made a little stop somewhere at Sax, fifth Avenue or something to get your parka.
My version is buying one in mountain hardware because that's kind of my Sax Fifth Avenue, but I bought one that is 850 down on.
Andy's got one that he bought actually for the 2020 rally.
So we are going to be looking like a team.
The Michelin man yeah, I'm going to say Penguin, but Michelin man, Penguin, you know same thing.
So when does this thing start?
So we leave for the rally on the 19th of February and it starts on the 21st of February and it finishes on March 1st.
You hope that it does About 10 days out.
Yeah, yeah, we will.
The competitors, I guess you would call them, are on this route with you.
So there are.
I believe you're 40 teams.
Is there 40 or 42 teams?
40.
I think they're capped it at 40 teams total.
In the winter rally there are just four wheeled vehicles.
I don't think there's ever been a six, five, but there's four, four wheel vehicles.
So they could be a real drive.
They could be all wheel drive, four by fours.
In the summer iteration there can be motorcycles as well, or year olds if you wanted to cycle, a sidecar and in addition to vehicles.
So the Alcan 5000 rally is like the Olympics.
It has the same type of cadence.
So it's the winter, then two years, then the summer, then two years, then the winter.
Gotcha.
Yeah, that's good, all right.
Now I have to ask, with all of these competitors, I mean, what do you think your chances are of actually winning?
There are people that rally this for decades and don't ever win or podium.
We need to finish and we want to finish strong.
That's our goal and we want to do ourselves proud and we want to do the vehicle proud.
Our main job as journalists is to review the vehicle and to make sure that we're safe, that everybody around us is safe, test the vehicle and push ourselves as rallyers.
So that's our main goal.
The heck of a test.
The random chance of podium.
That's great, but for us, our goal is to finish without any mechanical issues.
Finish strong, whatever that looks like.
That's what the gods have in store for us.
Will you be stopping at any Buckeys on the way?
I don't think there's any Buckeys there?
I have to ask are you guys?
Are you guys?
I forgot my question?
No, I didn't.
How can we follow you guys?
So you can follow us via crankshaftculturecom or crankshaftculture via social media.
Myself as being the co-driver, I will have time several hundred miles of time to when I have service to be able to load social stories as they happen.
So my plan again is to do daily reels of how things happen, and then also via our own social media.
Andy, you've got something for that.
I was just going to say we're at crankshaftculture on Instagram and Facebook.
We're at crankshaftculture on Twitter when we post on there.
We do have a YouTube channel and all the all, the all the socials.
And we'll have several different articles, several different podcasts.
Radio shows things like that happening after the event.
I hope that we're one of the radio shows.
Of course, of course you guys always are.
Okay, Well, thanks for that.
I need to put a link on our website for them so we can they can follow them through our website.
So if one of you is driving, does the other one kind of like curl up and take a nap or get rest, or you more into the navigation?
I?
have to say from behind the camera.
The driver has it easy.
Mercedes is the navigator and she's the one that is really going to know everything.
The drivers all sit around the next morning go.
Where are we headed today?
Nobody knows.
It's the navigators that always know where we're going.
Like this is the route book.
It's 5000, 5000 miles worth of this and it's it's a whole host of directions and speeds and odometer readings and Mercedes is going to be extremely busy the whole time.
If anybody, I'm the one that has it easy.
She's the one that's going to be doing the majority of the work.
So that was time, speed, distance calculations that you saw, incremental ones, which we're still learning how to do.
But you know, as Andy drives, we have rugged radios that we are going to be using.
I have two different sets One is going to be for emergency communications and then another is going to be for our buddy cars.
They're actually not going to have handhelds, they're going to be plumbed into magnetic or not magnetic.
They're actually going to be mounted on the RhinoRack roof rack antennas.
So but just for these purposes, we have them, you know, so handheld.
So if we need to go dig somebody else out or whatnot, we do have the antennas that are handheld as well.
But for the actual reality purposes, they will be cabled up to external antennas and then each person is required to have some type of in reach satellite communications.
We have an older Garmin GPS map 66 I that is in reach.
So that's our satellite comms.
Everybody is tracking, so we will be posting live tracking, which is really cool.
So any of our audience, if you want to see all the rally cars so far we are currently 15.
That may change, but right now we're car 15.
So if you wanted to see all the rallyers on a map and see us live as we're moving.
You can see that we'll post that link, so I am so excited.
I want to go with you, I can be your photographer that.
I'm waiting for the Bahama 5000.
Yeah and Andy.
One last question for Andy for me what are you getting Mercedes for Valentine's Day, buddy?
I'll get back on that.
It's a surprise.
Oh, my God, we love you guys.
Thank you, best of luck to you, and we'll be following you and we'll hear from you, hopefully, when you finish the race.
All right, that sounds great, thank you.
Thanks so much to both of you guys.
All right?
Well, yeah, that is Andy and Mercedes Lillian.
What a cool thing.
It is very cool.
Yeah, we absolutely love that.
All right, they've been very good friends of ours for a number of years and we followed them all the way and it's just been a ton of fun.
I want to, I want to.
I want to take them to a party.
I want to party with them, do you?
Yeah, you know it's like partying with the stars, yeah, yeah.
That would be cool, Very, very just.
well versed in the in the automotive segment really that they are All right Time now for a quick break.
You're on the In Wheel Time car talk show.
Thanks for riding with us today.
We'd love to hear from you.
Shoot us an email info at in wheel timecom Back after this.
Yeah, call
them at 713-781-7755.
Want to feel good about something special?
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We know there are lots of places and organizations out there where you can donate a car, truck or SUV, but we're asking you, our car enthusiast family, to consider donating to God's garage.
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You know I really have been off today on my board work over here and I apologize for that.
Welcome back to the end.
Well time car talk show got some of the stories I wanted to pass along to you.
Lucid Motors says it's partnering partnering with Saks Fifth Avenue to offer test drives at department stores and for marketing efforts through the luxury retailers online platform.
While EV startups such as Fisker and Vin Fast have turned to us dealers in recent months to bolster sales, lucid is taking a unique approach by partnering with Saks to promote the pricey air sedan and if you've seen when you're going to go, wow, look at that thing, yep.
Additional elements of the collaboration include a dedicated Lucid landing page on sakscom, content on its digital channels and an event in the Saks Fifth Avenue store that's going to include actually the Houston, texas location.
Saks showcased Lucid's top trim air sapphire variant with a starting price of $250,000 including shipping.
The base air starts at 78.9
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No markup in that?
No, and let's see what else do I want to do?
Electric vehicle newcomer Rivian Automotive outscored EV sales leader Tesla in brand satisfaction.
According to Consumer Reports, tesla also fell behind brands that mostly sell gasoline vehicles, including BMW and Porsche.
Rivian's top place finish came in its first year of consideration for brand satisfaction and Consumer Reports survey.
Rivian has two models, the R1T pickup and the R1S crossover, both of which were highly rated by owners across the US auto industry.
Tesla is often at the top of the list in satisfaction metrics, such as brand loyalty, but it is starting to fall behind rivals with fresher products.
According to analysts, individual models that scored highly in the most recent survey include the Chevy Corvette, at number one, with 93% of owners saying they'd buy the car again.
The Rivian R1 T was in second place, with 88% is saying yeah, I can do it again.
Amongst the least satisfying vehicles, they were the Nissan Altima, with just 48% say they'd buy that thing again, along with the Kia Forte with 47%, mercedes Benz C-Class 46 and Volkswagen Tauss with 38%.
That's not good.
I don't think I like what I bought.
Ow, how much money did you pay for that?
Buyers remorse.
I'll say Um, we've got another show coming up next week and then the week after we are going to be at Mars.
Hemi hideout, hemi hideout, yes.
I mean, I should have put that on the events.
Maybe you should have.
Yeah, that would have been a good thing that that that's.
That's our next remote that we're going to have, and if you'd like more information on that, go to Hemi hideoutcom and you could sign up to be there.
Limited number of folks, $10 to get in.
It's going to be that Saturday, the 24th, starting at 1030 and going till one o'clock, so kind of the lunch hour.
All right, we're going to finish up today's show right after this quick break.
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Well, that's it for this week's Enwheel Time car talk show.
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Give us a like, tell your friends about us, share our stuff.
We'll keep you posted on all things automotive all week long, including award winning interviews, new car reviews, upcoming events, cruise ins, racing and car truck and SUV goodies.
Yep, when you need to hear some good car talk during the week, you can find the Enwheel Time car talk show 24 seven via the I heart radio app.
We live stream this show on Facebook, youtube and EnwheelTimecom every Saturday, eight to 11 am central.
Daily 30 minute podcasts are available from your favorite streaming provider.
We post a new episode every day.
Every day, the Enwheel Time marketing, advertising advisor and video technical director is we always need more.
Jeff Zekin from booking agents do it all and it connoisseur Mike Mars and chief engineer David Ainslie.
I'm not Armstrong.
We hope you join us for another live award winning production of the Enwheel Time car talk show next Saturday, february 17th, on all of our Enwheel Time car talk outlets.
Have a great weekend and keep your wheels on the pavement.
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