The LGBTQ+ conversation

This is Hard Parking, proudly sponsored by Wright Honda and Wright Toyota out of Scottsdale, AZ.

I am Jay Finning, I am your host recording in my home studio in Gilbert, AZ. One of the things about this

show that make it incredibly difficult to describe to people when they say what's hard parking about?

Is it cars? I don't like cars, and it's not

really cars, but it's not really not cars.

In fact, if you are here for the first time, welcome.

If you are a returning listener, If you're someone who's actively subscribed to the show, thank you.

But you'll know that sometimes I don't talk cars at all.

But every once in a while there's an episode where I step out of things and have a real conversation about things that's going on in the world. On this episode, I reached out

to some podcast friends of mine, Marcus and John, and they were on my podcast a few years ago and I was on their podcast as well. Back then they were called Real

Talk With Jam, which stands for John and Marcus.

Now that they are TWJ podcast, they are both members.

Of the L GB T Community, L GB T Plus Community.

I was at the gym and I thought to myself, hey, OK, they have a new episode out. Let me listen to it.

I haven't checked in with those guys for a while.

I found myself as I listened to it on the treadmill.

I found myself wanting to become part of that conversation.

And to me, that's one of the best qualities that a podcast has is you listen for entertainment.

You listen to be, you listen into the conversation.

Sometimes you want to be part of that conversation.

If it moves you in some way, if you find yourself laughing or getting angry or wanting to reach out and talk, to ask followup questions or to further explain something, that's a good podcast. And so I thought about just

doing this episode without them. But I reached out to them and

I'm happy that they both decided to come back on and we had a great time. And that's what's coming up.

You know, I don't want to take up too much of your time until we get to that, but there's a lot to respond to.

There's a lot of things that I think that I could have said in talking to myself about these things and talking to friends about, you know, what's going on in the L GB T community.

Is there some infighting if there has to be infighting because black people don't all get along, white people don't all get along, girls don't always get along, guys obviously don't always get along. Guys don't always get along with

girls. So there has to be infighting,

and there is. And I thought I could only get

the perspective of people who are living that, whatever that is, I'm not living that. And I think as you listen to

this, you get a better understanding that we're all not that dissimilar. A lot of us are the same no

matter who we are and what we're into.

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Marcus and John, RTWJ podcast used to be real talk with Jam.

You guys change it at some point.

I mean, it's my pleasure to welcome you guys back to Hard Parking. Thanks Jay for having us.

Yes, absolutely. I saw, I recently listened to

one of the episodes you guys did and I appreciate the fact that you guys are still around because, you know, we kind of got into this around the same time, you know, 2019, 2000, twentyish, you know, give or take six months.

And a lot of the people that we probably communicated with from back then, or they're in the wind, who knows what they're doing. And you know, whether you're

doing an episode every week, once a month, once every other month, once every two weeks, you know, it's just the fact that you're still doing it. It's awesome.

So I check in with you guys every once in a while on that.

Yeah, we appreciate you Jay. It's been a long road for us.

You know, we started during the pick of the pandemic and like you said podcast we check into gone.

Disappeared. So it's it's good to see you

here and good to have us. A lot of, yeah.

A lot of Instagram accounts are just, I guess, just the profile pic and that's it. And there's nothing left there,

you know? So it's it's, it's truly as

amazing that we're still here. You're right.

Last Post the June 20th, 19 or or 2021 or something crazy like that. You're just like, jeez.

Yeah, yeah. And their show is still online,

but no episodes. Interesting to see the changes

though. Couple ones that you followed,

John, right. You had a couple favorites that

you were listening to for a while and I looked at them and yeah, 2021, it seemed like 2021, as the pandemic started resolving. A lot of people just moved on to

other things, so. That shows that we are legit.

No, it's true. We are true podcasters.

And this is it's tough man. This this thing that we do is

hard. And I've said it before on my

show and I'll keep on saying it, that this is not easy, whether you. Set up your own recordings and

do it. Whether you try to be a one man

show like I have here, whether you outsource editing, it's still you still have to do it. And so that's it's pretty

awesome. You guys are there.

So I recently listened to an episode at the gym and you know, I was telling you guys earlier, there's a few things that I want in a podcast that I think what makes a podcast worth listening to. And you know one of them, you

guys check all the boxes. But the one that really

intrigued me of talking to you guys on this one was I wanted to be part of the conversation as I'm sitting there.

Understanding of walking on the treadmill fast though guys don't judge. Want to lose some weight here

and I thought. Hey, we hear you.

So John, you shared a story and this was the July 5th episode.

It's called a Pride Month 2023. Pride gets personal.

And this was on the, you know, the heels of, I think the episode released. Was it?

I guess it was July 5th, but you know, Pride month was starting to wrap up and you both decided to share some very personal stories, which I appreciate. So as I'm listening to John's

story, I have all these, you know, I'm like okay, well I understand that and I identify with that and but, but, but and then as I listen to Marcus's story, because Marcus came from a slightly different, you know, his his story was a little different And you know what I'm talking about here for the listeners is, you know they both came out.

John came out when he was technically, I guess you officially came out in high school, but you know you had issues. With kids in the elementary and

middle school and then Marcus, you waited till you were in your 20s and so your guys experiences were a little different.

And it's funny when when you were saying that Marcus as you were explaining it, he go, but my experience wasn't I finished your sentence when I was walking across the gym.

Different, different. I go, yes, different.

But yeah, I had a lot to respond to and that's why we're here today. Yeah, it's.

Both of us together combined. I mean Marcus, you know his

story is is interesting because I I knew Marcus years before he decided to come out. So you know and I and I was

there. I'm like hey buddy, it's all

right you know be yourself you know.

But I never pushed it with him. So you know to to see his

experience and see him go through that growth, you know, development, try to become the person he is today was was just eye opening. So I'm very proud of him.

It took a long time. It was a very slow process.

Even just saying the words sometimes of I'm gay, it's like I would say in other ways, kind of dance around the official it's. It really took a long time to

accept. So yeah, it was definitely

different than like you referenced.

John's story is so intense, just what he went through.

Some of the trauma he just experienced, way different than me coming out as a working adult, you know, past that stage. In my life of school and all

that was definitely different. Sure.

Totally, John. With yours I can identify in

certain ways. And one of the things as we kind

of step through some of the stuff is our experiences in life, you know, our perspectives.

It's all relative to what we've gone through and what we've seen. And there's things that you went

through that it sounds like you definitely felt that you were alone. And you weren't as alone, I

guess, holistically as you may have thought.

But you know your your surroundings kind of dictated you know what you were thinking at the time.

You know, one of the things that you did say is, and I'm not trying to invalidate anything because I understand exactly where you're coming from. Yes.

And my goal is to let you know you're not alone.

And I feel like it is OK. And I sure it's easy for me to

say sitting over here, but, you know, I don't.

I think that. In today's society, nothing's

easy, right? But overall, it's more socially

acceptable to finally actually be yourself.

And I don't know, you know, as a kid, because kids are mean, but you know, one of the things you had said is one of the hardest parts and you skipped around a little bit.

But you know, as a loving someone, you can't have.

You did say, well, obviously that's, you know, you're in school and we all think we're in love with somebody.

But just the point of, you know, being able to come out and tell someone how you really feel about them, you know, out of fear of, you know, what would happen and out of fear as you got older, through your later teens, how the kids treated you when you're in elementary and middle school.

I would say that you came out, you're younger than we are.

I forgot exactly how old you are.

How old are you? I'm 3030.

OK Yeah. You're young.

You're you're a baby. I'm I'm 47 dude.

And. You're young too, man.

I got. I got two grandkids, man.

But you came. That's great.

Came up in an era that like I don't know how how I would have survived to be honest with you. A lot of us we sit around and we

say damn, I don't know how these kids do it.

You know, they find a way to do it.

But boy, it sure is hard in in in today's world with all the cyberbullying, not just regular bullying.

You know, in our age we would get bullied a lot as kids for any anything. But once we came home, we never

had to see it again, which is why kids never wanted to go back to school, right. But in your era and kids younger

and people a little older, you know, not to carbon date myself, if you have a smartphone, you have it, you go home, you have a computer, it's still there. So I mean, props to you for

getting to where you're at. I couldn't even imagine, but

you'd said that, you know, you're bullied.

You had a like a really good friend you weren't even you know, attracted to. But once you told and that could

be go ahead and you know correct me if I'm wrong, but once you told him that you weren't into girls, stop messing with you and probably started to bullying and grab some people and kind of come at you a little bit. Yeah.

You know a lot of that when I when I think back to it and that that statement you mentioned where it says you know.

The hardest thing is having or loving someone you can't have, right? And a lot of that really

resonates with me, As in I couldn't love myself and I couldn't find that love that I had for myself.

Because, you know, just for quick context, the friend of mine was pretty cool, right? Talk to him about girls.

He was going through struggles with the crush, you know, typical kind of stuff, you know, typical boyish stuff.

We were talking about it, hanging out, stuff like that, conversations and. Though I was able to give him

advice, I wanted to be true to him.

And I said, hey, you know what? Like, I can help you and I can

guide you in directions. I can give you pointers on how

to talk to people this and this and that.

But I don't know how to fully answer these questions because I don't have the same attractions that you have.

And, you know, I thought it was appropriate.

I said, Hey, you know what, let me just give him some.

Backgrounds that he understands why I may not be able to answer all questions and I thought this is the perfect opportunity.

You know, it wasn't there was nothing sexually attached to it because I was a kid. You know, I was in in middle

school, high school. I I knew nothing of anything

else but just being myself and just trying to offer suggestions. But it changed, I told him,

completely changed. Took me out of his life.

Brought other people into it. And that's when the hardest part

of bullying started. And it was difficult because it

was in the transitional period of your life, when you're still going, you know you're growing, you're going through puberty, your your body is changing and you have hormones, you your thought process changes, critical thinking is being developed. And I was just a mess.

So to try to handle that while growing up was crazy in itself.

But. It was it was progress, a lot of

progress. And you know who I am today came

of what I experienced during those times.

In listening to that, one of the reactions that I had as I was working out at the gym because I, you know, I'm not gay, but you know, I've had some of those same challenges.

And that's where feeling hopefully coming away with you're not being afraid to be yourself and not feeling like you're alone. Which is easier to say at that

time. But, you know, I was adopted.

My parents don't look anything like me.

My brother doesn't look anything like me.

He was also adopted. You know, we went to an

elementary school in Texas. I had a lot of friends, had a

lot of haters. And you like people and they

don't always like you back. And I know you know that as an

adult now, but there is, I think there's there's three things that happen regardless of your sexual orientation.

When you decide to tell someone that you actually like them, and I think it's, I'm not trying to oversimplify this at all, but I think it's a it's a risk and and the closer you are to someone the scarier it is because either they could a like you back, right? Probably less likely in your

position, but it could happen B you land in the friend zone.

Or see they just don't talk to you again you know and and everybody goes to those struggles and it fucking sucks.

You can curse on my show too by the way and it's you know, I had there was I never knew who I was.

There's like no record. I don't know who my real father

is and again I don't look anything like my parents.

I was embarrassed at times to be seen with my own parents because they didn't look like everybody else's.

You know, I was fortunate where I had.

Friends. I had good friends.

But you know, I still never quite knew who I was.

And I've kind of carried that hole for most of my life, even as a mature adult. There was a girl that I liked in

middle school, and she was one of the popular girls, of course, right? Yeah, that's the worst.

This is the worst because they're so great.

You just you just look up to them and it's just like they're there. I'm this unknown kid and so, you

know, I forgot how she found out.

But I don't. I I didn't tell her.

I was terrified. I don't know if I dropped a note

in her locker, you know. Do you like me?

Yes or no or whatever. You know, the kids do.

But this was middle school's probably not.

But somehow it got to her. And I won't call her name out

because we were all kids but her, you know, days later I received it was in my. It must have been in my locker.

You know how we used to fold up papers and tuck them in?

You know, these nice little things?

And I opened up and, yeah, the slot and I opened it up and it was covered front to back, full of, you know, how people signed your yearbooks. It was like that.

And it was filled with nothing but notes of people just being mean. And you know, somebody had told

you once before that you, you know, they hope you kill yourself, you know, shit like that was on there.

And I was a 6th grader at the time and a lot of these people I knew who they were. Kids aren't smart enough not to

sign the name. But I didn't.

I didn't take it to the print. So I probably should have.

But no one wants to be a rat. And, you know, so I have these

two or three pieces of paper full of all these people.

They were just saying these mean, hateful things to me.

And all I did was like somebody. I did the same thing to somebody

years later, some girl like me. And, you know, I got in trouble

for it, as I should have. But it's, you know, that's when

I learned that lesson. The heart is that people don't.

And this just sounds shitty, but it's it's just one of those hardcore things. It's like, I can like someone.

They may not like me back. Someone's going to like me.

I'm probably not going to like them back.

And and going through high school, you saw the people that were with their boyfriends, girlfriends, and you wanted to be part of that. And I identified with that as

well because I had a high school girlfriend, you know, of course.

But there was people that I was there was one girl that I was just crazy about. And then there was a couple

girls that were just crazy about me.

I went to prom because I couldn't find a date.

And of course there was somebody out there that would have gone with me. But, you know, it's not who I

wanted to go with. Oh.

Man, just like me. Yeah, you know.

I had the one, yeah, I'm like, I don't watch y'all I want the other one. Yeah, and I I my prom night, you

know, we were at the Anatole Hotel in Dallas.

And I was hanging out late and I remember walking through the hotel lobby with my tuxedo and my Air Jordans on and I just, everybody was hanging out with someone.

I don't remember how I even got home.

But you know, I just, I was just lonely.

And you know, I mean, I'm happily married now but that speaks to I got made fun of a lot of it as a kid for no reason at all. I this is kind of breaking news

to probably all my listeners unless they've heard me on other people's podcasts. But I made the mistake.

When I was in 6th grade, maybe I was in 7th grade telling a friend of mine named James, if you're out there, maybe you're dead by now. But I told James that I had a

creepy uncle, and you know, that got around school.

And there were times when I I remember standing because again, keep in mind I didn't know really who I was.

You know, nobody wanted to date me, none of that shit.

And I remember standing in the kitchen crying with a knife to my stomach. Like I was that unhappy.

But now I was in middle school, fast track through high school.

I was in a really bad period. But I kept getting in legal

trouble. Because you know, once once I

graduated, I just started while and out 18 and 19 years old.

I didn't give a fuck if I lived till I was 2526, you know.

I wasn't going out picking fights, but I was making a lot of stupid mistakes and I try to OD on many thins, those pills.

In my hot tub. And then I got out and and

called some of my friends, and Joyce and Keate came over in Garfield. That's when you find out who the

real, the real ones are because you know you have all these people around you when times are good.

But as soon as there's any controversy, you know, whether you're coming out or you're getting in any sort of trouble, the ones that leave you were never there to begin with.

And you know, it sucks to lose people like that.

But those that are by your side are always going to be by your side. And so I say all that to say

that it's shitty what you had to experience, and I've had similar things. I can never experience exactly

what you experienced. But you know it's is it the fat

kid in school? You know, Is it the black kid in

a white school? Is it the white kid in the black

school? The girl in the school full of

boys, The boy in the school full of girls?

Because at the end of the day, kids suck.

They really do. And.

I know you had mentioned there's a lot of people say just let kids be kids. Yes and no, because kids suck.

They really do. And I mean, we all know it,

right? I mean.

It's. True.

I mean the best. Job of my life was working with

kids, but man, would they fucking get me with some stuff.

I used to come to work and I'm like, hey, your hair is not combed. I'm like, Gee, thanks.

Like, I I know. Oh, there's a guy, Luan.

He was always told me to comb my hair because my parents left my hair looking like it was on fire all the time.

And yeah, but yeah, Hey, comb your hair.

That's all you used to say to me?

He's an older kid. Hey, hey, comb your hair.

I'm like, what? But, you know, we all have to go

through bullshit, and it's not okay.

It's not okay. But none of us are really, truly

alone. And if we make it past that part

in our lives where we're at our lowest, then you know, there's nothing left to do but grow from it.

And so I wanted you to know that you were not loading your journey. You know, I've had experience

similar things and I'm here just like you are now.

Yeah. And I and I truly appreciate

that because that's that's the focus that I try to get people, is that the stories are not just my story.

Marcus's story, right, Jay's story.

It's the stories of people that have gone through stuff that no one knows has happened and. You know, you yourself wanted to

be a kid. You wanted to be a teenager.

You wanted to experience what we think was being a teenager, what we think was being a kid. But we were bombarded.

Whether you know, you were gay, whether you were straight, black, white, Mexican, whatever you, you know, you were, you were still struggling through those issues.

So it's, you know, not just the gay issue, it's it's people issues. It's things that as people we've

gone through. And that's, that's the main

focus, right, is that these L GB TQ riots are not indoctrination.

Nonetheless, you know they're not.

They're just experiences of what we as people have gone through.

Because kids do suck, man. Once time this kid was working

at the school with like 6th graders that I turned around to face the whiteboard, He grabbed this burrito, launched it at full speed. It hit me in the back of the

head. Just beans and rice flying

everywhere, man. And I wanted to turn around and

be like you, fucker. Like I said, man, you, you.

But you know, that video would have got 20 million views if you would have turned around and did that, by the way.

That was like what, 1213 years ago?

So you know, it wasn't that popular there, but it's just you see people go through that, you know, even as adults and and you brought a great point. It's growth, it's development.

It's who would become. For most of us, right.

Because a lot of kids, it's, it's learned behavior and you guys have mentioned grooming. You can be groomed to hate fact,

but a lot of times the kid could have the best parents in the world. But a shitty friend group.

You know, you always have that group.

There's a there's a one or two Alpha Bullies and a group of bullies and I guarantee you one or two of those kids is actually a good kid. They just they're just too

chicken shit to say no. And you know, you know, how do

we fix that? I don't know if we can because

kids suck. Kids are mean, but until you

know, they know it's okay to kind of stand up.

But I think in our society, again, whether you're gay or whatever else, it's going to be an issue and and I don't know what it's going to take to get past that.

A lot of work I mean like you mentioned it's just it's just I I always I've always been a firm believer of it's it's just human behavior you know we just as as creatures of habit creatures who you know we see things that are different than us and.

It's just, you know, it's just habit.

We don't, we don't understand. A lot of it truly comes from not

understanding. So how do we fix that?

Maybe by making people more transparent, offering education, offering more support. You know, like, we don't have to

tie people down and be like, hey, this is the way it's supposed to be here, even with me, you know, I don't expect people to be like, you have to respect me for being gay.

You know, it's not what we're asking, you know, we're asking just for respect for being me, right?

Respect for being John, Respect for being Jay, Respect for being Marcus. You know that that's literally

what the focus is, but because we just get caught up in humanity, right? It's the best part.

Well, I want you to try not to be too afraid to be who you are, because who you are is who you are.

And I know you and Marcus, you had actually said this to where sometimes you have to turn it off, sometimes you have to kind of just you didn't say this, but I wrote down, sometimes you just have to be part of the scenery. And I do that too.

Some, you know, you get around a bunch of people, you don't know them or you're not. You don't know if if they're

cool or not. So I just don't say shit to

anyone. I just kind of like absorb

myself into the crowd. But otherwise, I think we know

as adults kind of when we can be ourselves.

But I don't know how many of us are truly ourselves from day one. There are a lot of people that

are like that, of course, but I'm not one of them, certainly.

I mean, hey. Who I I mean, I I can't say that

I am 100% of the time either, right, John, would you say you are? No, but I mean Jay, Marcus is

great though. I mean he he truly is a a what I

what I what I like about Marcus is that he's genuine and true to himself at most times. Right?

You know, like he's understanding.

You know he when when certain conditions maybe not the best to be yourself, but he truly is someone that from the beginning, as I met, he was. True and genuine to himself.

And you know it, It takes a lot. It takes a lot because that's

for everybody as well, right? You know, like you said,

sometimes group parties, you're like, hey, you know what, This party's pretty cool. But I'm not going to talk about

my fascination for Harry Potter. I'm not going to talk about my

love for Disneyland. You know, I'm gonna hold that

back, right? Or you guys like Dungeons and

Dragons, Who likes Dungeons and Dragons?

Exactly. You drive a Civic.

Nah, man. Civic is trash.

You know, stuff like that. I mean, it's happened to me

before. So you don't.

You just. You're right.

You just got to gauge your audience.

You know, it's like a whole big show.

It's crazy. Yeah.

And I think the older you get, the more you realize that because you know, as as mean as kids are, the younger the kids are, the more innocent the kids are.

And I think if you get around a four or five year old, you know, everything they say, especially now comes from home or that iPad that they're glued to. Back when we all grew up, it

came directly from home and nowhere else didn't come from, you know, Timmy. It came from mommy and daddy and

Uncle and and Bigot Joe and all that kind of stuff.

Yep, Bigot Joe. That's a good one.

I just made that up. Yeah.

That's a good one. You guys can use it if you want,

yeah? I might have to steal that.

That's. Great.

Call my uncle that because he's he's a bigot.

So the bigot Joe. Ooh, that's a good one.

TikTok video you'd mentioned. I haven't seen it.

I don't do the TikTok machine. I call I I call it TikTok

machine on purpose to make me sound like an old man, but.

I mean, you nailed that, man. Tick tock machine.

Yeah, I don't do that. Tick tock machine.

That ticky tock stuff. Social media sucks.

Yeah. Absolutely, it's I stopped and

all I did was read Twitter. I don't even really get involved

in Twitter. But when I would see a video and

I'd scroll through the comments if it even if it's a video about a dog kicking a soccer ball, at some point those comments turned nasty like YouTube comments. And you know your eyes were just

blown out by some of that shit on that Tiktok video you guys had mentioned with a daughter crushing over a teenager.

But it doesn't surprise me because.

People are weird, man. I I was, I was taking it back

because we are so hyper focused on issues that of course are important, right? Children are important.

The the innocence of children. The, you know, the ability to

give someone. You know, knowledge that they

may not understand is difficult. But this video, it was this,

this little girl, I mean, had to be four or five years old.

You know, crushing over this. I'm assuming a teenage boy,

probably 1718, that the dad is just whoever, whoever was behind the camera was just so supportive and like and it just, it just really made me feel. So bad because I work with kids

and I told Marcus and I tell everyone on the show that if it's me or it's a kid, I'm going first.

My life is gone. I will, you know do my absolute

best to the end to fight for kids and and it's just people were saving the video. People were commenting on the

video like oh so cute. Oh, she's going to learn.

Oh, you know, it's just honestly stuff that was disgusting because I, I, I couldn't comprehend.

How that was happening, you know.

And then we become to drag Queens reading books and library and it's all hell breaks loose, right.

And that's why I was like, man, like how that that's a child.

It that's what social media has done.

I mean, that's the thing with social media.

It truly yes, social media, it's nailed it.

It's a double edged sword like social media you have, you have the ability to have such community with people, right?

Whether you know whatever, whatever topic it may be, It can be LGBTQ rights. It could be something very

serious. It can be like us loving

Disneyland and, you know, interacting with people who love Disneyland and want to share secrets about Disneyland.

You have such positivity that can come from it, And at the same time, like you just said, Jay, the absolute weirdest stuff that's out there just spreads like wildfire, just like that video that we were talking about.

Like many other things that you've probably seen and heard out there, it it has such great benefit and also at the same time can spread such ridiculous shit too.

So it's just like it's it's complicated.

It's for sure complicated. Yeah.

And I don't know what the fix is, you know, is it, you know just blast get rid of all social media that that would take us back ten years. But you're right.

It's it's so polarizing and it's there's there's no Gray area.

It's either people are nuts or people love dogs.

Exactly. Really.

Exactly. You're absolutely.

Right. Dogs, you know, I, I, I did a

paper on social media and you know how it's, it's so beneficial to what as a society we can do, right?

You know, for example the the fires in Hawaii.

Are devastating, you know, and thanks to social media, we can see the impact of people their lives.

Donate, help, assist, right. Those are the benefits.

Those are the the, the beauty of social media.

On the other hand, we see people that have, you know, taken their own life because of bullying that people that have been accused of stuff they haven't even done.

But social media, it's just a twoway street, but completely different. And in many areas it's the court

of public opinion. Marcus, you order some of the

challenges that you had coming out later.

You mentioned some of them. But I I would say that if my

wife and I got a divorce, I wouldn't know what the fuck to do, because I am terrified of going out there and trying to date amongst all these kids in these apps.

And I know I sound even older than I did, you know, 10 minutes ago. I can't imagine coming.

Out and then starting over. Absolutely.

I mean it it really is like just like you've mentioned, it's challenging. You know, I I've gone out to

many bars clubs I've been LA, San Diego, Vegas, I I I've gotten out there and checked things out, especially since I've been out openly and it it is hard, you know look I I'm so John's 30. I'm 31, all right.

So I'm not. 18/19/20 Like some of these beautiful kids are

right. They're all beautiful.

They're all thin. They're all energetic and

wonderful. They're out to change the.

World. Yes.

Happy hour. Yeah, I'm at happy hour getting

the two for one specials. I'm going to bed thinking about,

oh, I got a meeting in the morning.

I'm past that point like that, prime of excitement and being out in the world and being out of the club or at a bar and ready to meet people and party and have fun.

I'm not at that stage in life, so to kind of be out in the open how I am now, it's tough just to at times.

I guess I don't want to focus too much on regret, but there is kind of a cost of well, when I was younger I wasn't out.

I wasn't able to enjoy kind of being out out in the, you know, gay culture, gay community when I felt younger, better about myself. I'm now in this kind of position

later in life. Or I just.

I don't feel like I'm prime, right.

And I know with the kids, you know you're 40, it it just goes downhill by the day. Being old, I'm like, Buddy,

you're 31. So, yes, but you still face that

Channel, especially you go out at night and you're seeing all the young kids. You know, all the young gays are

out there. They're they're just ready to

go, probably. Look at us.

They're like, oh, there's the dad right there, yeah.

Because I pull out my phone and I.

Look at something your uncle's here.

Yeah, literally. I pull out my phone in front of

my face and they just all stare at me.

Like, what are you looking at? I said.

Well, sorry, that's what. Yeah, and I'm talking about I

want a well drink, and they don't know what that is, know what the prettiest, most beautiful, tastiest drink is on the menu. They don't know what the

specials are. It's just I'm not at their their

level, their caliber, and to be kind of exploring being openly gay at my age. It's just a little more

challenging. It really is.

It is tough just like you said. If you were to divorce your wife

and go out there, you're you're not 1920, you're not going to get the attention from the crowd of a 1920 year old and it does.

It just makes a little more challenging that, you know, selfesteem wise, I'm older, I, you know, I have my esteem in my like you've said, I'm an adult. I have some concept of myself

and my worth, but still it's just it would be nice to be the center of attention, but I'm not going to be compared to some of the beautiful people that are there.

So it's it's just tough not to to know that I'm not going to be at the top of the group when I'm out.

And it it's just, it's just the barriers are a little more, the opportunities are a little less. It's the I still don't regret.

You know, there's no, obviously no regret.

Still feels great to be out open now, you know, it's kind of that whole thing of why waste another day, why waste another minute in hiding. But there's still that feeling

up. I wish I would have done it

sooner and had to have more, you know, life experiences than what I have now. So you kind of go back and forth

with kind of sort of the regret and then also still having to be positive embrace what's good about being out now versus waiting another 5 to 10 years. So it's.

It's challenging. I guess that's kind of the

summary more or less of it. Yeah.

You would brought up community And so that's one of the questions because I feel like they were there seems like they would there would be kind of a civil war within the gay community And it almost became, well, you kind of get it because maybe you didn't come out soon enough, you didn't experience some of the things that other people experiences or maybe you're not gay enough. You don't drag.

So you're not this, you're not that.

Talk to me about that because. Sure.

To me, I can see how that would happen because that's just how people are. People are like that in sports.

Like, when did you become a fan of this team?

Oh, were you born there? Oh, you're just a bandwagon.

I was like, no, I can like the team, whether I just started liking them last year or. Like, you know, Exactly.

Yeah. Talk about those.

Absolutely. I mean I'll start that John, you

take over after just got a little bit about, I don't we don't really share a lot of like what we look like on our show.

We don't have a lot of pictures of us.

Just to give you kind of a quick description.

And John? Will show you at the end of the

show. Will.

Fill in as you like to. You fill in with your little

comments, but essentially, I am a larger build, half Hispanic, half white. You know, I have tattoos on my

arms, so I have all black ink. You know, I tend to wear darker

colors. I am not.

Maybe especially when, like maybe I go to LA, for example.

You get into like West Hollywood, where do you have maybe some, some members of the gay community maybe are a little more, if you want to say, for lack of a better term, flamboyant. We're very bright colors.

Maybe, you know, do make up other things, right.

They're very into having a specific appearance.

And then I show up and I look like how I do.

I look like some scary, you know?

Bug, basically. And I'm there at a gay bar

looking like that. You get the looks.

You do get the looks. You get the, oh, you know,

especially if I'm not wearing name brand designer, whatever the case is, you know, every bar is different.

Every situation is different. But there is like sometimes a a

standard of oh, if you truly belong in this place or you know this is the place where you're supposed to be, you're going to look this way or act this way. And I am just the anomaly of

everything. I just violate all the rules.

You get the stairs. You get the looks.

You get the, I mean, John, you, you.

You'll be able to elaborate more too on this, but you get that feeling of ill. You don't actually belong here.

What are you doing here? You get those facial

expressions. You get that kind of attitude

from people and it and it's horrible.

It's horrible just because I don't fit in a specific place the definition of what I'm supposed to look like.

So even. You know, we talk, you know,

people talk about, oh, my gay card, whatever you want.

You know, people say, you know, speak like that.

My gay card doesn't work everywhere for some groups, unfortunately. So I I go through that and yeah,

I've, I've dealt with that where people just look at me like, yeah, you're out of place, doesn't matter.

Even if you're gay, what are the cases?

You don't fit our group. You're not our style.

So you you're really mailed it. Interesting point.

You know Marcus and I are both in Southern California, right?

We're specifically in Orange County, which is South of LA County. And you know, LA has a very

prominent neighborhood for, you know, I guess, you know, L, GB, TQ and and and and and the community, West Hollywood.

I was young. I went there, you know, in my

teens, which shouldn't have been in there, but I was 1617 years old in the class, you know, having a field day.

But it's so different there. It's so different than Marcus

and I, who don't quote fit within the community.

Don't go there. We go other places.

We go to San Diego because it's much more friendly.

People are much more accepting. And it's so hard to say that

because we are in a community that is looking for acceptance, right, and love and support. Yet within our own community, we

degrade each other. There are bigots.

There are people who are racist. There are people who shame

others. There are people who haze

others. There are people who.

Just are mean. And it's like, why?

Why are we like this? We should be here to support

each other. But Marcus and I walked in

somewhere and they just vote. They they stare at us because, I

mean, I'm wearing like a Nirvana tshirt and some jeans and like a backwards hat. And it's kind of like, you know,

hey, what are you doing here at this club?

You're supposed to wear button ups.

So you're supposed to wear this. And I'm like, no, this is what I

feel like wearing because this is who I am, right?

Yeah. I mean, it's just like you like

everyone. Like you said, you you you truly

nailed it on the head, you know, with with with that experience of people, right. Whether you know, you're

marginalized or minority or whatever.

The cases are just anybody, frankly, someone is not going to like you. Someone is not going to accept

you. For example, I love the Angels.

That's, that's my baseball team. I'm here in Orange County.

That's what I grew up with. That's what I know.

My family grew up, right? Yeah, right.

But see, you know, I go into LA, right?

And you know, it's like an LA Dodgers game and it's like, man, just, you know, let's have some cool.

Like, like you said, poor guy. I I like that.

That's fun. But Nah, my car gets egged, you

know, I get pushed into the crowd.

My jersey gets ripped. Off my back of the guy guys.

Like sports? Fans are crazy, man.

Especially there's always a fight in the stands of an NFL game. The 49ers versus somebody.

There's, you know, it's always, I mean, I know we have a really bad stadium. I mean, you know, come on, I

know it's a crappy stadium. I get it.

But you. Know people just do that.

Are you ever? Because you?

We all want to support our communities, right?

Whatever our communities are regardless.

You know you want. I want to support my Las Vegas

Raiders community. You know?

But are there ever? Is there ever that fan where you

just look at him, You're like, Jesus, you're you're kind of crazy like I support you as a fan, but you're making me look bad. You know, there's got to be some

of that going on. Oh, oh, I'll.

I'll get into this. I I think the best example, and

I was just talking to John recently about this, is I'm going to go back to the gay bar scene.

Okay. And I know it because one thing

John was talking to me about this he he he observed that I tend to really get along well with bartenders at some of the bars I frequent. So I have some that I have one I

frequent in downtown LA and then when I go to Vegas, I have one that I frequent. I usually go to Vegas, you know,

every six to eight weeks, trying to go every four weeks.

Now I love Vegas, so. The bartender's not a bad person

to have a great relationship with, by the way.

So here's what happens. So here's the thing.

Why is why is that? Why?

Why do I have that kind of, I guess relationship with them or that attitude? Because you, I'll be sitting

there and here comes the drama queen.

Sorry, I'm be a little, you know, using the names here, but it is who comes in and you know. Often times, sorry, let's let's

throw the stereotypes often very pretty looking or think they're pretty, which they're not but that's that's my opinion.

But they come in and they act demanding.

They are rude, They are very picky with their drink for example, you know, they get a drink.

Maybe they're not sure they really like it or not.

They don't really know what they're doing.

They ask for recommendation. They act very demanding the

entire time and. I like in downtown LA for

example. I have seen it many times where

if they don't have everything perfectly, they don't tip.

They don't tip. And it's just it's got to be

really bad for me not to tip like like egregious.

But these are, you know, like I will be with these bartenders that I have been with that I kind of am familiar with and they do a great job right. They're very friendly, they're

good with their their regulars. And you have this, you know,

these people come up and they act that way and then they don't tip and you see the face of the bartender, just the despair, especially if you're only working a couple hour shift and you get a crowd of people that are just acting entitled.

They're obnoxious and they they're disrespectful.

And it is, it's like, what are you guys doing?

Why are you acting like this? Again, I think the whole point

is like, right, We're we're talking about how even with pride and things, we got to. It's us against the world, this

and that, right? The world's attacking us.

Here we are. This is a fellow member of the L

GB TQ community, and you're treating them like trash, complete trash. You're disrespecting them.

This is something, you know, this is someone that's providing you with a service and they're trying to find their best and you're being rude and they act like I see it all the time.

And it's just heartbreaking. It's like already we have to

fight and, you know, try and have a space, right?

Gay bars are not on every corner.

That there are few and far between.

We have the space to be, you know feel safe, feel accepted.

And then we're acting like this in what's supposed to be a safe space. We're acting like fools.

It's like come on and then that's, that's, that's an example, that's probably the best one I can think of is just visit a bar and find the one that acts up and it's just it's horrible. That's the the gay version of

Chris Rock, right? But white people don't like

about black people. Black people really don't like

about black people. So yeah, you nailed it ahead,

man. I mean, you want a vodka soda

with no vodka? I'm like, just ask for the soda.

It's like, why make a big old deal?

That's funny, like really like, you know, I I don't like it, you know, just tangent. People go to the bar.

Like I want something fruity. I mean come on just just choose

a base. You're going to go with the

well, what do you want choose the the juice is right there.

Just just come on. You know, just I don't know.

And they do get demanded. Oh I don't want cranberry.

Why did you. And it's just I've seen it.

Yeah. What are we doing?

Why are we acting? Yeah, it bothers me a lot.

That's why I always try and go not not even.

It's just a matter of being respectful to them.

Treating them well. That's why I always tip well at

a gay bar, just cuz I see what they go through and against.

Like, this is our community and we're acting like this toward each other and it just pisses me off.

It does. Good for you, man.

Yeah. Let's go to some questions here.

Sure. What are your thoughts, your

guys thoughts? So you had mentioned when you

guys started that episode, that was right on the heels of a couple Supreme Court rulings and you were going to talk about it.

But you haven't talked about it as of your episode that just came out. Yeah.

Work in progress, yeah. OK, so we don't have to get into

the weeds of that, but the I think they they had ruled against someone not wanting to, I don't know make a website or some shit for a gay couple. But I think, and I could be

misspeaking here because I didn't dig as deep as I usually do, but ruling that it's OK to refuse service.

I have mixed feelings on that. What are your thoughts on that?

I have my my cousins, also gay actually my favorite cousins actually Eddie and Jose and they had put up a posts so you know, I know exactly where they're at with that.

But you know, what are your guys thoughts on that?

I mean, you know, that's a, that's a good one because I, I, I'm a firm believer of, you know, as as a private business you have the ability to serve the needs of your customers as best you can, right? You know, like for example, if

you go into a store that sells motorcycles, you know, don't expect to buy a car there, you know, that's that's what they specialize in, right. But but what I don't like is

when decisions are filled or our field by hatred or a lack of understanding. You know, I say this, this,

this, I say this many times and I say it again.

L GB TQ rights are not indoctrination.

You know, we're not asking for people to forcefully believe and forcefully, you know, whatever the case is, in that particular case, the language and and the way the case was brought up and the way the case was handled was not the best way to do that.

I think that there's a lot of stuff that we don't know behind the law and behind the process of the case, right.

And and stuff that happened that led up to the decision at face value. I just think it's not cool

because I feel this is that person was using their decision based on hate and based on a lack of understanding.

If you want to refuse customers, that's fine, You can just say, hey, you know what, unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to make that cake. I'm not going to be able to make

that order just because I don't have the supplies or whatever the cases. But I I just think that it could

be a twoway St. because at the same time, you know, OK, she

might be Christian, she might be doing it not out of hate, right?

She might love these people, she might accept them, but she just might not feel comfortable because that is her prerogative.

That's her decision and I as well support that.

As you know, that's fine. If you don't want to do it,

that's fine if that's not within your comfort level.

But can we do it a way that's more respectful?

That's what I'm looking for, you know, I'm looking for that because you don't have to believe everything.

You don't have to do it. That's okay.

I will respect your religion. I will stand by you.

I will fight you for you and your religion.

Just find a way to be a little more, I guess, respectful, so to speak. I.

Mean like in that case, let's say the cake example like you brought up John. You have right, you're in a

bakery and you decide, hey, it's it, this isn't this, I'm not comfortable. Like he said, however, there's

another, you know, for example, you could say, hey, there's another place down the street that is also really, you know, my friend or whatever the cases you have, maybe either a recommendation or an alternate. Again, not making it about I'm

not going to help you people. I'm not going to do anything

with you people. It could be approached

differently of it's not comfortable for me but hey there's a place down the street, maybe try them.

They're also very highly rated see if they maybe they might be able to assist with it. I I recommend them try that.

I don't know. I just like you said John, you

don't have to make it a big statement of hate when you know even if you're not comfortable you can still end it on a positive note, on a respectful note.

I think The thing is even like John and I, I with kind of our platform, our view overall. It's about respect in the end.

It's about respecting people as human beings, treating people decently as human beings. Even if you're not in line with,

you know, lifestyle, whether it has to do with, you know, say, sexual orientation, whatever the case is, that's my thing is just treat me still as a human, even if you can't necessarily go along with me. Don't degrade me in the process,

even if you can't, you know, assist me with the cases.

Just I want, I want, I still want to feel like I'm a human being. I'm respected as a human being,

but see our community, I also think that our community has to understand that as well. And I know it.

It may, oh, absolutely hard to say that, but our community has to understand that not everyone is still going to be supportive and that's Okay because you can respect people still and not have to be supportive and our community needs to get that, you know, hey, you know what, there are some businesses that may not best serve my needs. For example, if you just have a,

you know, if you go to a restaurant and you're allergic to certain ingredients, you know you're not going to purposely go to a restaurant that serves only those ingredients, right?

You're going to find alternates and unfortunately, right, you know, but that's kind of that's the case, right.

We have to just find that kind of tune.

So that's what we think about that.

You know, it's it's it's hard because we get hate mail for that. While you guys are supposed to

fully support and you guys are supposed to fully embrace your culture and your identity, we are identity.

We are embracing this, we are supporting it, but we have.

You get that kind of hate mail. Yeah.

Yeah. We have to find those balances.

We have to find that agreement because we're all people.

We are all still learning. And if we expect people to like

and love us, we got to give them the chance to at least learn and at least try their best. That's it.

That's it. Yeah, I think that's why I'm

kind of torn on that is it's. I think businesses should have

the right to refuse service that they all have the right it's written on their door but there better be a damn good reason.

And otherwise they I think they should they open themselves up to litigation and you can't just if if Marcus you on there John you go into a place and want something and they just say I don't serve your kind here. What the fuck does that mean,

right? If you're going there and you're

you're dumping over tables and shit like that and you're yelling and screaming and belligerent, you're drunk, then of course we don't serve your kind here.

So I think there needs to be, and I don't know, I haven't looked at the the, the details or, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of outcry, but again, I don't.

I don't know the details of what transpired in that specific case, but I think they should have the right to refuse service to anyone. But it better be a damn good

reason. Absolutely.

That's it. I mean you you really, truly

nailed it. We're not going back to times

where people were segregated. You know, that's not what we

want. We don't, we don't want that.

That was the horrible. We don't want to go there.

And I'm afraid that little steps like this, little issues like this will somehow some way translate into bigger legislation, into bigger issues, into bigger things that we have to deal with and not only will affect L GB TQ members, but will affect minorities, marginalized groups, people suffering through poverty, right. You know, it just, it just

translates into this huge issue and that's what I'm afraid of.

So this case is important nonetheless, because it does lead to something that can open many doors and not good ones either. Wonder if it's contingent on on

the states. Another question is what What

age do you guys think it's appropriate to educate children on differences? Because I'm pretty sure kids

aren't watching Sesame Street anymore.

There's no more Mr. Rogers. And that's what Mr. Rogers did,

right? It's it's right the Where does

that come from? And when I was coming up, we had

sex education class, but that wasn't till we're in middle school. And I don't know if that'd be

the appropriate thing. I don't even think they even had

that anymore. But what age do you think that's

an appropriate conversation to have with children?

So I'll start and I know John has a couple of thoughts on this. So in terms of, I think there's

two, there's two issues. So I think there's awareness of

the presence of L, GB, TQ members of our community versus probably what you're more getting into in terms of actually discussing the processes from a sexual education standpoint. So when it comes to awareness,

my opinion is pretty much. L GB TQ individuals are are part

of society. So you know, acknowledging, for

example, that A1 child may have a mother and a father, another child may have two fathers, another child may have two mothers. That's a converse.

I mean, children are very aware and attentive of the world, especially when they're young. Normalizing that from just a

kind of family structure perspective, I think starts very young. John, I'm gonna let you talk a

little more. You had some thoughts, maybe

more on the sexual education perspective.

So at least from that side, I think, I think it's important because here's the thing, here's the reality.

Regardless of belief systems, ideologies, LGBTQ individuals are part of society. Children someday, when they grew

up, are going to have to work with people who are transsexual, gay, lesbian, whatever the case is, they're going to encounter these individuals both in school, college, work throughout their lives. That's how I learned.

So it's it's something that that it's just reality.

So that that's where I would say in terms of awareness, it starts young. I mean you made a good point you

truly do it. You, you Marcus nailed it on

that. You know, he made a good point.

For example, for perspective, my nephew, he's three years old, have a nephew which love him to death.

His parents actually just introduced to him the proper terminology for his anatomy, You know, hey, this is a penis.

This is a vagina, right. And they used, you know, they

they taught him and they and they gave him knowledge and stuff like that. Yeah.

So you know they they. Hands off your bebos and just.

My grandson, you know all the. Time.

Yeah, they they they got him on the hand and they boom, you know, but the my thing is I think that is absolutely what needs to take some time. And I and I get it and I get it.

As parents we are Mama bear, Papa bear.

We are there to defend, fight and protect our kids.

Absolutely. And I and I and I'm strong

believer of that. I think it should be handled the

same way as a heterosexual couples handle because I was taught when I was a child that having a mom and having a dad was the correct family dynamic, right.

I was taught that. So I think in the same way we

can teach as well, that some kids might have different parents, might have different, might have a single mom, I have a single dad. There's a lot of different

family dynamics. I think with sexual health, it

just it takes a while. I think we have to be able to

gauge the time when an individual, a child can critically comprehend what is being said to them.

And could that be when they're five years old?

Could that be when they get into your teens?

You know, that's that's just dependent on the environment and the factors that the kids are growing up in.

But, you know, we just have to be aware of when kids are able to think critically because that's a huge point.

Critical thinking, let them develop that understanding.

You're not going to tell a kid that's three years old, hey, by the way, this is how babies are made.

I don't think that's appropriate at that time.

Personally, that's my opinion. I think that the time will come

when those conversations can happen.

Maybe more so around puberty, right?

Because there is a transition in the body.

But all this just has to be truly gauged by the experiences that kids are having within their own family dynamics.

It's important, though, to teach sexual health because I grew up in an environment where I had a creepy uncle and I wasn't taught certain parts of sexual health and anatomy.

So I would think it's appropriate for my uncle to hug me a certain way, right? I'm not saying anything ever

happened, you know, because nothing did.

But just that encounter of the way my uncle would hug me wasn't comfortable to me. I knew it wasn't comfortable,

but I wasn't taught that. So I think that teaching.

It's interesting our kids pick up on that, right?

Because I wasn't. I felt so uncomfortable, right.

I was like, this does not feel good.

But if I was taught, hey, you know, no one should touch you below here, No one should touch you below here because that's your personal private area, right?

That's your personal space. It's your body.

It's your right. I think that that's important

though, to educate kids because there are a lot of bad people out there and you know, our our kids are exposed to different environments, school stores, you know, family members.

I went through that. The uncle's not here no more.

He passed away, bless his heart, but he know he was he was creepy, but I think that would have saved me.

Nothing ever happened, but it was just uncomfortable.

What about the movement of? Allowing kids to choose what

they feel like they're leaning toward such a young age.

You know when you're if you have a 5 year old playing with Barbie dolls, 5 year old kid, male boy playing with Barbie dolls and a five year old girl running up trees, I think it's a little early you know, to to decide what your child's doing.

Yeah, I I completely agree because it happened to me.

I told you I was 567. I think my first actual,

probably attraction to any sort of gender wasn't.

I was like 1314 years old, right?

So I played with Barbies, My brothers played with cars.

I also played with cars. You know, I and my dad would

tell me, no, you're supposed to play with cars, right?

And I'm like, well, dad, I don't know what I'm supposed to play with. I'm a kid.

I want to play with my toys. You know what the fuck the toys

are? Yeah, just, you know, let me

play with my toys. So I think that you have.

But then again, it's the exposure, right?

When I was a kid, there wasn't a lot of exposure to a lot of stuff that we see now. I mean, my siblings, my cousins,

nephews, you know, they have phones like 6 years old.

Like what? You know, how do you have a cell

phone? So I guess it's just that

exposure, right? They're exposed to a lot more

than we were exposed to. And that's what makes it so hard

now is that. We're more progressive now, too.

And then, you know your parents. My parents, yeah, grown a lot.

You know, the parents are growing a lot.

But just that example as a kid, you know, I'm like, well, what am I supposed to know? I like playing with these

things. I like playing with that, you

know, That's that's why I grew up and I still love cars, you know, I still love toys. I still, you know, go to Disney,

whatever the case is, right. But I just think, you know,

allowing your child or allowing just just to be themselves and support them in the best way that you can support them.

I It truly just comes down to support support someone for being who they want to be. You know what I think is

happening? And you know, we could probably

talk for another two or three hours because you guys are great putting up with my bullshit. You're great, Jay.

You're great. I don't care what anyone says

you're. I don't you know, I still listen

You don't care what was written in the black on the dark web with all your reviews. You're gay.

to your show pad. Now you're great.

We appreciate you. Thanks for that.

So you guys have brought the blocking of transgender healthcare, and I looked that up and God, there's a lot more states out there than I thought. Yeah, yeah.

I, I they kept on saying youth, right.

So that kind of brings us back to sort of what we were talking about. You know if someone's actually

going to and it's probably more than just this, but if you're 13 or 14 and you want to take the hormones and and go through a transition. You know, should you really be

able to or should you be 18/20/22?

I know I've been around people at work that have done that, gone through and I know statistically there's no turning back, which can be a terrible thing and a lot of times it does lead to suicide. But I'm this is this is more

than that. Can you kind of tell us, you

know, in a few minutes kind of what this actually is, you know, saying besides just a transition?

So it it's a as you well have reference Jay, it's a very complicated issue. So couple of, I guess a couple

of things kind of what comes to mind for me is that first of all, I would say with the youth, you know, I know we talk a lot about youth and it's like what do we do in the end if someone is? Truly, for example, let's say

you have a boy, a male you know, 131415 years years old and they truly believe they are a female and want to be a female.

When you deny someone their their authentic self, there are huge implications in terms of mental health, in terms of selfesteem rights. So you're you're dealing with

all of that, that is. The reality, so kind of starting

off, I I guess I would say merely just denying a young person that opportunity just flat out saying it's illegal, it's banned. It no, you can't do it, really

doesn't consider those implications.

I think where I would like to see the conversation steered versus instead of saying yes or no, illegal or allow it, I I would really like to see us more focus on the process.

Of having someone that is underage go through that.

What What are the ideal for example, from, from account maybe from a counseling perspective right.

In terms of the medical perspective, what are what are the best practices or processes? If we have a young person that

feels as though they they want to identify with a different gender, what's the healthiest, most appropriate way to to approach that? I I've noticed in the in the

kind of the discord, the political discussion of it, we don't get into that part of it. We just get into we.

That's very superficial. Yes or no.

And the kind of like my position before with in terms of L, GB, TQ individuals exist. We have to be aware of them and

that we have to kind of coexist. In the same way, we are going to

have individuals that are going to question their gender identity, possibly want to identify with the other gender than what they were, you know, what they were at birth.

That's going to happen. What is the most responsible,

healthiest way for that individual for society?

Let's have the discussion there versus just simply yes or no.

And just kind of, you know, having a blanket answer to it, that's kind of I I know it's not quite a perfect answer, a definite answer, but I think honestly that's where the conversation needs to be. But I think until we get people

out of the, oh, just don't allow it, no, they can't do it.

Until we get out of that mindset, we're not going to be able to have that deeper conversation of really what's what's the right way to handle it, What do we do when we're told we can do something, we find a way to do it.

By the way, or. Or you degrade because you can't

be who you are and you're again your self esteem and mental health just goes down the toilet and that's not going to do anything positive in the end. So.

That's such a crazy age to, you know, scientifically our brains aren't where they want, where they should be.

But I I agree. I think there should be maybe a

a counseling period. Like, Are you sure?

Let's go to these you know, sessions with with the trained professionals to make sure this is what you really want to do.

You know, And you better be damn sure you know because.

Absolutely, yeah. Denying outright.

Yeah, seems tough, you know. Denying outright.

Yeah, I we had an incident and they don't listen to my podcast, but we were out, you know, last weekend and we were celebrating a friend's, you know, a very awesome achievement.

We were walking out of a club and I was kind of trailing.

And by the time I came out, a friend of mine was going back and forth with the guy at the door.

And I was like, I thought, maybe they knew each other, right?

My friend had asked the doorman a question.

Sounds like he asked him several times.

The door guy wiped his eyes and flicked him off.

And he was like, oh, OK, this might be something.

And then the question was, are you wearing eyeliner?

And the guy's like, no, I told you, I'm not.

And it's like, OK, why are we why are we having this conversation? But you don't know this guy.

And that turned into a huge, huge fight between my friend and his and his wife. But he and I, we, we talked

quite a bit that night. And those, those personality

types are out there. And otherwise he's a great

person. But I didn't know.

I didn't realize how strong he was in his stance against those things until that night. So he lost a few points, you

know, with me. You know, but the thought is he

goes, that guy has eyeshadow on or mascara or whatever.

Maybe it's the mascara. I think it's mascara, whatever.

And I go, how do you know? Because I know I said why does

it matter? Like who fucking cares?

It doesn't fucking matter. Like we're sitting here talking

about this for 20 minutes, he goes, it matters to me.

Why does it matter to you? Right?

Because I've gone on this huge tirade you know before, not on the actual podcast about. People get angry about things

that don't necessarily have anything to do with them.

And that's the problem. That's the problem you guys are

facing in your community. You know, it's it's the fact

that in it. But full circle before I go

because I can go on that rant for, you know, 1520 minutes he goes, well, my son a few years ago when he was 18, he was painting his nails. I go, OK and I want, I don't

want my kid to be doing that. I go, OK, well, that's.

If you want to be that parent, that's up to you to be that parent. But you can't impose that on

other people. Like, you have no idea, you

know, what the situation is there.

And then I told him, I go, dude, when I was 18 or 19, I was painting my nails, too. This was in 1996.

People looked at me like I was crazy.

You know, I started off with a dice, an old Jordan thing, and the next thing you know, all my nails are black and I'm out there playing basket pickup basketball.

And people were like, oh, I'm like, oh, would you be afraid of me? I'm a dunk on you now.

But, you know, I'm, I'm as straight as they get, right?

But, you know, that doesn't mean anything, you know, and it's, you know, that that takes you back, you know, to little boy playing with Barbie in the little pink truck or the little girl. Because, I mean, almost every

woman I know in my life at some point was a tomboy, You know, are they even allowed to be tomboys in 2023, you know, or are they declaring their sexuality when they crawl up a tree instead of putting on a dress?

You know but. You know, going back to people

being upset about things, I think one of the things, because one of the questions that I didn't ask was about businesses taking a social stance or taking a stance on something, you know, case of point Anheuser Busch with the Bud Light, right, people, Not that Bud Light's any good.

It's not the worst beer I've had, but right, but that's the that's the that's the focus, right?

The beers? Not good.

Yeah, now, now, now you know Bud Light sales are are terrible like statistically and so. I was like, oh, I don't like

that. I don't like that they came out

in support of whatever, you know, I don't even remember the name of something 3 syllable name Mcgloney.

We'll just call it Dylan. We'll just say Dylan.

It's like, who cares? Like if that's what, but if

that's what Hazard Bush wants to do, why does it hurt you?

And I think the the thought that people have is I'll support it like I support your guys, right? To be in the community, but

don't make me feel like I have to do it or else I am anti this or anti that. And I think it's this, the D is

the disease that people don't like being told what to do or what to think. And so I think when when more of

these corporations come out and show support, people feel like they're being personally attacked.

When at the end of the day, it really has nothing to do with him. And I don't know what the fix

for that is. You know this corporate America

stay out of social issues but you know I I don't know, I I it's it's Ford making that. I call it the Kodak trucks.

You know they made a special trucks dedicated to like the the flag right the LGBTQ flag and people lost their minds.

It's like why does that how does that impact you?

And you know and no one wants to have that conversation.

So that's a, I mean you've that's a great point but I always, I also like to give people the question and I I give even our listeners this question and I asked them OK, you know we're we're told by companies to take a stance on social issues, right. But as someone that comes from

the gay community, I have watched for many years corporations take a stance on heterosexual issues.

And you know I don't have any backlash on that because it's just what it is right. There comes, there comes a point

though where I've always said this.

If if companies want to take a stance on social issues, they're a company. They have a right to do so, but

put your money where your mouth is.

If your organization supports the movement of of you know of a lot of stuff and anti you know you know if they they support good movements, then donate to causes to support good movements. I don't want to see on June 1st

your logo turn into a rainbow and then you're still donating to organizations that degrade, attack and you know, go against the L GB T community. Same thing with other

organizations, right? You know, if if there's like you

know an issue with with with racism or or police brutality for example, you know do companies take stance on those issues? Absolutely.

But put your money where your mouth is.

If you're going to make a stance, support organizations, individuals that do get there. And as consumers, we have to be

right. You don't want to support a

business, You don't want to support an organization, that's fine. But if an organization supports

A cause that helps improve life and helps to support life, that's fine. If an organization is supporting

people killing dogs, then okay, well, you know, that's that's different. They're causing harm, right?

They're causing foul. They're they're they're being

harmful towards that's that's that's the deal breaker.

Absolutely. But if they're supporting, you

know, people, being accepting and loving and understanding and supporting human rights, then like, damn, like, why is that so fucking hard to comprehend? But I get it.

You know, I get it. We have any right to do so.

Bud Light sucks. The beer sucks.

Oh, it's. Awful.

I hate it. I hate it, you know.

Yes. It's like medicine.

Yeah. Like what?

You're going to get in the Ford pickup truck and you're going to go, hey sister, you know, no. You're going to get in the Ford

pickup truck and you're just going to drive a truck, I mean.

Yeah, And and I agree with you 100% on that, even with the the Bud Light thing, but it's funny and I don't have the list in front of me, but I looked up all the other beers that Anaheuser Busch produces and there's a lot of beers that people love.

So it's like if you're not going to buy the Bud Light, then guess what, you're not buying these other beers that you probably have a, you know, full of your freezer.

So, but people, the blind leave the blind.

No one ever researches anything, you know, it's just it's just popular to kind of go with the flow.

I guess that's the issue right there.

That's all it takes. Just give your time, get on the

computer, find some resources, learn a little bit about stuff.

And you'd be surprised to find out that a lot of these cases, a lot of these issues keep trickling down and you.

It's just we just we just got to learn how to educate.

I mean, John, I told you before too, people also have major control issues in their life. That's it.

You know, people. We can go, we can go on and

right. The economy, whatever the case

is people feel out of control. These types of issues, like with

Bud Light when they say I'm not going to buy it again.

Right. Even though they don't really.

Just like you said, yeah, it's like I'm not doing this.

It gives them like a moment of control and power over themselves and their lives like, oh, that's they.

You see how people get, they get really enthusiastic when they say I'm not going to do it and it's like.

Over Bud Light. But you know what it.

Gives them that little moment of I'm controlling myself and I have control, when in reality their lives are, well, out of control. Did you know that company, the

parent company of Bud Light and like you said that makes these beers? And a hyper Bush and in stocks

and certain. I don't know how it works

directly how it works that involves the Florida State pension system. Yes.

So the state of Florida is now having issues that they sent a letter to this company saying, hey, your stocks are down.

So they're affecting the funding and the viability of our state pension system. I mean, come on, it's.

A moment of feeling a little control and power.

You're messing up your own pensions.

You know, I know it's a complicated situation.

It really is. Marcus and John, thank you so

much for spending a good part of your afternoon with me.

You guys have been great. Absolutely, Jay.

It's always a pleasure. You guys ever want to join?

Let me know. We can get up here.

Oh, really quick. What happened to your Civics?

Like one of you doesn't have a car anymore.

That's me. That's more but a 2022 Honda

Civic Sport. You know, I I I I think it's

beautiful. It's a great car man.

I'm not going to lie, compared to the Civic trends before, I think they did a really good refresh.

It's a quality built car. I like the inside, not like the

dynamics it has. I mean, I wish I had fog lights.

But he starts this. He has these moments where he

starts to shit about I should have gotten this.

I should have got that. It's a beautiful car, not a

Civic type. RI did.

The color isn't his rims. We have black rims, right?

They're rims, yeah, but for a sport trip, they're.

Beautiful, Pretty good. He did the black tent it.

The car looks incredible. So, Marcus.

Was yours the one that was shitty?

I knew one of you had a nice one, and one he had.

Kind of a like the. The starter version of it or

whatever, Yeah, he had the starter.

Yeah, he's always This guy has always been a little fancy.

Marcus will make a right turn, his left hubcap.

Oh, shut up. It didn't do that.

But he had. What was your old, your 2014,

what you had before the 2014 Honda Civic?

I ran that. What was the?

But what was it? It was a EX.

Yeah, see, I always want the LX. I was cheap on cheaps, though.

He's always had the nicer car. Why do car companies keep doing

this? Get us an answer, Jay.

I don't understand it. All these trims.

It pisses me off. Just.

I'll work on it. Yeah.

Please make. Yeah.

Make three. I can do 3 trims.

Yeah. Thanks guys.

Thank you. Have a great day.

Want to thank John and Marcus for joining the show.

It was a great time. We this.

This is actually one of the few episodes that I upload to YouTube and I do the whole YouTube production for it as well. So if you want to check it out

or send it to your friends, go to the YouTube page Hard Parking Media and it'll be right there. Put a lot of work into it

because it's worth it to me. It's worth it to me to make my

guests sound great, because you know I'm going to sound great and it's worth it to me to. Put something out there that's

worth talking about. And to me, to us, to you, the

listener, I think we all agree that that subject matter, that community, your community, my community, it's worth talking about. You know, one of the things that

I was talking to another good friend of mine about this, and I bounce a lot of ideas off and the thought was okay.

Why? We have all the companies, the

people who boycott Bud Light, the people who boycott Ford.

I think, I think I, you know, we talked about that with Marcus and and John. How does it impact you?

People love to get upset about shit.

People love to get upset about things that don't impact them personally. And if it does, then why?

Because you don't agree with it. That's not good enough I look.

I think we're pretty progressive.

I think some would label me as conservative, conservative leaning, I guess. I don't know.

I like, I hate gay pride parades.

The thought of going to a drag show couldn't be any more not interested. I don't like that at all.

I don't like that shit. I don't like parades.

I also can't stand screaming music.

Super heavy metal Harley-Davidson big bike meets Mexican clubs. I don't like the music.

I'm still trying to get into the music, the Puerto Rican music after being married for 20 years.

But if you want to come here and you want to go to a Mexican club, we're going. If you want to go to a

motorcycle meet for Harley's, we're going.

You want to go to a screamer metal concert?

I don't know. I might draw the line there.

But I'm not going to show up and cause a scene.

I'm not going to tell someone that they can't go if they enjoy it if I have. If I have family that comes from

out of town and that's what they want to do, I'm not going to sit at home while they do it. Sure, you're my guess.

Let's go do it. I can always find a way to have

a good time. I'm not that prideful to where

it's like, well, it's. I don't want to be seen there

any of that shit. I know who I am as a person.

So if I'm hanging out with, if I'm the only person in a group of 6 and everybody else is part of the L GB T community, so fucking what? I know who I am and they know

who I am. You have to know who you are and

then ask yourself why does this bother you so much Now?

One of the examples that I've given in the past it's you could do your thing. If you want to fly the the the

pride flag, great. But as soon as you require other

people to do it, that's when people get annoyed and they don't care what that it is. People don't want to be told

that they have to do anything. And so, you know, where are you

guys with walking up to a business establishment and having the little sticker on the door?

We proudly serve L, GB T Plus Community, whatever.

I've seen that before, and I thought, huh?

Why does that matter? Why does that matter?

But it didn't. I didn't stop and not go in.

I was like, oh, I went inside, sat down, ordered food, had a beer. Like I don't care that much.

I wonder, why does it? Why does that matter?

But it doesn't bother me as soon as I'm going to Walmart or Target. Target's probably a bad example

because some of you are, you know, get your, get your.

Your pants and a wad over target taking a stance or showing support too, which that's a you problem.

But as soon as I go somewhere and now I can't get served because I'm not in the L GB T community, then I start to have a problem with it. But until I go to the bank and

there's a teller line, and you can only be in that line if you're part of the L GB TQ community, then who cares on the aspect of getting upset? You don't have to agree with

anything in life. What is the impact to you?

That's the problem that a lot of people have.

Why does it matter to you if somebody is wearing something you don't like? If someone is dressing a way you

don't like, If someone has all mask air and you don't like if someone's driving a pink car, what does it matter to you?

It doesn't impact your ability to do what you need to get done.

Because as soon as it does, I understand there's an issue and we need to work that issue out, whatever that issue is.

So as I sit here as I'm editing this episode, like I was already done with this closing and I'm adding this in right now because of a story that just broke. I remember listening to Marcus

say before in the past that he's afraid sometimes to go out because he doesn't want to be a martyr.

And I've thought to myself before.

Come on, Marcus. Especially knowing that how he

described himself, he could seemingly he fits right in with anyone. He's a chameleon, essentially.

He's not coming in with the bright colors and the makeup and the the drag and any of that stuff.

But I had said just a few minutes ago on the closing about the store owner with the flag and the window and when I see that I notice it. But I noticed it not because I

have an issue with it. I noticed it because it's

usually not there. And that's one of those things

that people feel like this is being forced upon them.

But I also said I would go right into the place.

I would eat, I would drink. I did that before and I'll

continue to do that. But I read this Sunday, August

20th. The story broke today, this

afternoon. The Guardian, California shop

owner shot dead over the L, GB, TQ Plus pride flag displayed at the store. A man made comments about the

flag at Laura Ann Carlton store in Cedar Glenn and killed her before being shot and killed by police.

This is the type of stuff that Marcus John, more flamboyant people in that community are fearful of.

A store owner was shot and killed.

I'm sure there was. It wasn't.

Look at this flag. I'm pulling out my gun and

shooting you. They were probably some sort of

a heated exchange, but still. And that goes back to what does

it matter? If this person has mascara on,

it doesn't fucking matter. Why does it matter to you?

And the guy's dead after he killed someone.

The police shot and killed this person.

Laura Ann Carlton, 66, was pronounced dead at the scene of the shooting on Friday night. So this was Friday.

This was a couple days ago, and this just broke.

Officials said that during an initial altercation at Carlton's clothing store, a male suspect made several disparaging remarks about the rainbow flag that stood outside the store before shooting Carlton. He then fled the scene and they

ran him down, looks like, and killed him.

You know, we got to change. We have to change.

We have to change our outlook. We have to change.

You know, again, if stuff like that, If seeing the flag bothers you that much, you need to talk to someone.

It's just like my example of going to the parades, to going to the concerts of music. I don't care about.

You could only not like something that much, but as soon as you make it an issue, as soon as you take action, violence, as soon as you verbally insult. And demean other people because

of what they're into. Even if you're not, that's when

it becomes a problem. And you started it, you started

that. So you haven't given me a review

yet. Give me a review and it better

be positive when I think right Honda and right Toyota.

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The LGBTQ+ conversation

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