Christian Horner is the main leader of Red Bull Racing. He’s the person who helps run the team and makes big decisions, especially when things get tense during a Formula 1 season.
Max Verstappen is a famous Formula 1 race driver. He drives for Red Bull Racing, and the episode talks about how much influence and pressure he has inside the team.
Red Bull Racing is the Formula 1 team associated with Red Bull. It’s one of the top teams in the sport, and the episode discusses how chaotic and high-pressure things can get inside it.
“Embedded” here means the writer was basically working with the team and seeing what happens behind the scenes. It’s more than just watching races—it’s being there for the team’s daily life.
This part is about what happens inside a Formula 1 team. It explains how people work together—watching the car, talking to the driver, and making changes based on what they learn.
Person
Christian Orner
Christian Horner is the boss of Red Bull Racing in Formula 1. He helps run the team and makes big calls about how they compete and develop the car.
Jos Verstappen is Max Verstappen’s father and a former Formula 1 driver. He’s part of the family’s racing influence and often shows up in F1 discussions around Max.
In F1, an “ops room” is the team’s control center. People there watch data and coordinate what the driver and pit crew should do next.
Term
applied technologies
“Applied technologies” here means real engineering ideas the team actually puts into the car. It’s not just concepts—it’s stuff that changes how the car performs.
Paul Monaghan is a senior technical person on the engineering side. The host is using him as an example of someone who helps make complicated car engineering easier to understand.
This refers to the multi-layered technical challenges involved in understanding and developing a modern race car. The host emphasizes that even when you think you understand, there are deeper interactions and details that are easy to miss.
This is the idea that motorsport performance isn’t only about machines—it’s also shaped by human behavior under pressure. The host argues that drivers and team leaders operate with intense stress, and that understanding their mindset helps explain results.
A race weekend is the whole event around a Formula 1 race—multiple days of sessions before the main race. It includes things like practice and qualifying, not just the final race.
They’re talking about the moment a driver puts on their helmet and becomes fully “race ready.” In this context, it’s used to describe Max’s shift into a more intense, competitive mindset.
In Formula One, the paddock is the secure area where teams, personnel, and guests operate between sessions. It’s where you’ll see team members, hospitality, and the day-to-day environment around race weekends.
“Joss” is Max Verstappen’s dad. The hosts talk about a story from Max’s childhood and how that relationship helped shape the competitive driver Max became.
Ben Hodgkinson is a technical leader connected to the car’s engine and power system. The story is saying he explained how detailed Max’s technical questions were.
Carting (karting) is racing go-karts, and it’s where many future F1 drivers begin. It helps them learn how to drive fast and control the car before they move to real race cars.
Helmut is Helmut Marko, a major figure at Red Bull. The hosts are talking about how he influenced big team decisions and driver careers.
Person
Mattishitz
Mattishitz refers to Dietrich Mateschitz, the person behind Red Bull. The hosts are saying he helped start the motorsport effort, and that his passing changed how the team was run.
A “power vacuum” means nobody is clearly in charge anymore. The hosts are saying that after a major Red Bull leader died, the team had uncertainty and conflict about who should steer things.
Austria is mentioned because Red Bull’s main leadership and headquarters are based there. The podcast suggests changes in leadership at that level affected what the F1 team wanted and how much control they had. It’s about how corporate decisions can reach the race team.
A Grand Prix is just the official name for a Formula 1 race weekend. The podcast is saying Horner was involved in every one of those races without missing any. It’s meant to show how long and consistent his role has been.
“Team politics” means the human side of running a racing team—who has influence, how decisions get made, and how people handle disagreements. The speaker is saying the job is stressful because it’s not just about the car; it’s also about people.
Person
Marco
“Marco” is the person the speaker says made the call to bring Christian Horner into the role. In Formula 1, choosing the right leader matters because they have to manage the team and keep everyone aligned under huge pressure.
“Junior formula” means the smaller racing series that come before Formula 1. It’s where people and teams gain experience, and the speaker is saying Horner had that kind of leadership experience before moving up.
David Coulthard is a well-known former Formula 1 race driver. The speaker mentions him to show that Horner was even younger than a famous, experienced driver at the time.
Adrian Newey is a famous Formula 1 car designer. The idea here is that if a team loses a top designer like him, it can hurt development—but the team may still keep improving if they have strong people around him.
This means a new set of rules for how the cars are allowed to be built and run. The question is whether Red Bull can still do well when those rules change.
Person
Bed Hodgkinson
Bed Hodgkinson is an engineer who works in Formula 1. In this segment, he’s brought up because Red Bull hired him (and a group from his side) to help with their engine and powertrain work.
Understeer is when the car doesn’t “turn in” enough and tends to slide wide in a corner. It usually means the front tires aren’t gripping as well as they should.
Brake balance is about how much of the stopping power comes from the front brakes versus the rear brakes. If it’s not right, the car can feel weird or unstable when you brake into a corner.
Pole position is when you qualify fastest and start the race from the very front. It’s a big advantage because you’re ahead of everyone else at the start.
Silverstone is a well-known Formula 1 race track in the UK. It’s the kind of race where big team changes can happen or become noticeable.
Term
energy station
An “energy station” here means a key meeting area inside the team’s race-weekend setup. The idea is that more important people are closer to the action and decision-making.
“Turmoil” means things feel messy or unstable inside the team. The speaker is trying to describe how that kind of stress shows up in real life at work.
Term
composite people
“Composite” here means special lightweight materials (often carbon-fiber type) used in race cars. The “composite people” are the specialists working on those materials and parts.
Abu Dhabi is where one of Formula 1’s biggest races is held at the end of the season. The speaker describes a stressful tire situation there right before qualifying.
Term
tire whisperies
The “tire whisperies” nickname is for the person who helps the team get the tires working right. In racing, tires can make or break lap times, so specialists try to keep them in the best grip range.
Greg Reason is mentioned as the team member who’s especially focused on tires. The point is that tire problems can create huge pressure right before qualifying.
In Formula 1, a virtual safety car is when race control tells everyone to slow down, but the real safety car doesn’t have to come out. Teams still have to decide things like when to pit, so it’s a very tense time.
A pit stop is when the car comes into the pit lane during the race. The team uses it to change tires and make strategy moves, and timing it correctly matters a lot.
Person
Matt Schitz
The transcript mentions a founder named Matt Schitz and says Horner wanted him to take a stake in the team. The name sounds like it may be mis-transcribed, but the idea is about ownership and influence inside Red Bull.
Term
power politics
This means people inside the organization competing for influence and control. It’s about relationships and decision-making, not just racing performance.
Term
inter-team paddle contest
This sounds like a playful way to describe teams competing against each other inside the same organization. The point is that engineers are also competitive, not just the drivers.
A technical director in Formula 1 is a senior engineering leader who oversees the car’s technical direction—how systems are designed, developed, and integrated. The transcript links this role to the team’s internal competitiveness and the push for consistent race-winning performance.
Person
Lambiasi
Lambiasi is described as someone working on the pit wall during races. That’s where the team communicates with the driver and manages strategy under intense pressure.
Hannah Schmidt is described as working on the pit wall. She’s part of the race-day team that has to handle stressful moments and keep things running smoothly.
In F1, the engine is the car’s main power source. If someone says one team has “the best engine,” they mean that team’s car should be faster and stronger across races.
Mercedes is another major Formula 1 team. In this conversation, it’s mentioned because people think Mercedes could have the fastest car (especially the engine) and might be an option for Max.
A release clause is a rule in a contract that can let a driver leave the team if certain conditions are met. It’s basically a “get out” option written into the contract.
Regulation changes are rule updates for Formula 1. They can change how teams build cars and how races play out, so some teams end up benefiting more than others.
“Top two” means finishing in the very highest positions. Here it’s important because the contract clause depends on whether the driver is inside or outside those top spots.
Formula One is the highest level of car racing with single-seat open-wheel race cars. The discussion is basically about how changes in team staff can change how well a team does.
The cost cap is a rule that limits how much Formula 1 teams are allowed to spend. The podcast says it can affect how many people and how much money teams can put into certain roles.
The “second seat” means the teammate spot in a Formula 1 team—basically the driver who isn’t the main star. It’s tough because everyone compares your performance directly to the team’s top driver.
Person
Isaac Hajar
Isaac Hajar is a driver mentioned as someone the host has been impressed with. The podcast uses him to illustrate how hard it is to perform when you’re compared to a top teammate like Verstappen.
In racing, the “delta” is a live time difference—how much faster or slower you are compared to someone else. The podcast says focusing too much on that number can distract a driver and make mistakes more likely.
Liam Lawson is a Formula One driver. The host is using him as an example of how swapping drivers can change what the engineers focus on and how they work with the car.
Person
Yuki Sonoda
Yuki Sonoda is a Formula One driver. The conversation is saying that when a team has to work with a different driver, the engineers have to adjust quickly to that driver’s needs.
Person
Richard Wood
Richard Wood is referenced as part of the pre-season preparation. The point is that time spent working together before races helps the driver and team get aligned faster.
“Us against them” is a team culture concept where the group frames outsiders as opponents. The host connects it to Red Bull’s approach: portraying themselves as the villains can unify the team and shape how they handle criticism from the paddock.
A visor is the clear protective shield on a racing helmet. The host is wondering how much you can hear from the crowd when that shield is down and the car is loud.
Foro Sol is a big stadium in Mexico City. The host says it’s known for having a huge, energetic crowd that can be heard strongly by the drivers.
Person
Czecho Perez
This is about Sergio Pérez, another Formula 1 driver. The host is saying Verstappen has a history of beating him, which affects how the Mexican fans feel when Verstappen is racing.
Person
Nigel Menzel
Nigel Menzel is mentioned as a person who believed fans can make a driver faster. The podcast uses that idea to debate whether crowd energy really changes results.
A “sim” is a racing video game setup that tries to feel like real driving. Drivers use it to practice tracks and learn how the car behaves so they can get better for the next race.
Person
Lauren Mechiers
Lauren Mechiers is mentioned as someone who shared a story about how obsessed Verstappen is with racing practice. The point is that he spends huge time on the simulator to keep improving.
“Feel” is a driver’s ability to sense how the car is behaving—grip, balance, and traction—through steering, pedals, and body feedback. In sim training discussions, the host contrasts pure feel with additional cues (like visual feedback) to explain why one driver can be more consistent or faster.
Concept
visual backup
“Visual backup” here refers to using what the driver sees—on-screen cues, telemetry overlays, or simulator visuals—to complement the driver’s seat-of-the-pants “feel.” The idea is that better visual feedback can improve decision-making and consistency, especially when pushing hard.
Laurel Mechiers is the person the hosts say was put in charge for a race. They’re talking about how he leads the team and manages people and logistics.
Oliver Mintzlath is a senior leader at Red Bull. The host says he oversees the “sporting operations” side—basically the team’s off-track management responsibilities.
Race radio is the live communication between the driver and the team during the race. The host is saying it can sound really intense, but the team sees it as part of the job.
The host is describing how different parts of the team put pressure on each other. Instead of breaking things, they claim it can actually make everyone work harder during the race.
“Tape gate” is a funny Formula 1 story where teams mess with tape markings near the starting grid. The tape is used to show exactly where a car should be positioned, and the prank is that someone removes or changes it. It’s basically rivalry and trolling, not a serious technical issue.
The “grid” is the starting area layout in Formula 1. It’s where each car lines up in its assigned spot before the race begins. Teams care a lot about being in the correct spot, which is why the tape prank mattered.
“Checo” is Sergio Pérez, the other driver at Red Bull. The host is talking about how teams sometimes have to prioritize one driver over the other for the championship. That can affect how the team handles decisions during a race weekend.
“Sunoda” is a Formula 1 driver (Yuki Tsunoda). The host mentions him to illustrate how a crash involving different cars can force teams to scramble to repair and prepare quickly. When that happens, it can make team dynamics more tense.
Matt Caller is mentioned as a key mechanic working with Verstappen. The point is that having the right person in the garage can make the team faster and more effective.
John Caller is mentioned as the main mechanic for Yuki Sunoda. The speaker also says he’s Matt Caller’s twin, and that they still compete hard while helping each other.
Daniel Ricciardo is another well-known Formula 1 driver. Here, he’s mentioned because the speaker says Sunoda had a radio-related clash involving him that changed things.
Practice sessions are the times before qualifying and the race when teams test how the car feels. Drivers use them to try different setups so they’re ready for qualifying and race day.
Qualifying is when drivers try to set the fastest lap to decide where they start for the race. Starting position matters a lot in F1 because it can be hard to pass later.
In F1, the floor is the aerodynamic underside panel that helps generate downforce by shaping airflow under the car. If the floor is newly installed and then the car crashes, it can be expensive to repair and can also affect confidence and setup.
Winning a championship is tough, but keeping it is even tougher. Other teams learn from you and try to catch up, so you have to stay on top for a long time.
Brand
total wolf
“Total wolf” is referring to Toto Wolff, a key leader connected to Mercedes. The host is saying he helped Mercedes stay dominant for a long time.
Lewis Hamilton is a famous Formula 1 driver. In this discussion, he’s portrayed as someone who can raise another driver’s performance by pushing them hard.
Kimi Antonelli is a young Formula 1 driver. The hosts are comparing him to Max Verstappen, saying Antonelli has shown a similar kind of excitement and early success.
Oliver Bearman is a Formula 1 driver. The host mentions him to illustrate how passionate some drivers (and their support people) can be.
Person
Adam Norris
Adam Norris is mentioned as someone closely involved around a driver. The host is using him as an example of how intense and passionate people can be in Formula 1.
Person
Anthony Hamilton
Anthony Hamilton is mentioned as a father figure connected to Formula 1. The host is talking about how much influence and interest some fathers have in the racing world.
“Team principles” here means the top leaders of the racing team. They usually have more say in what gets said publicly, compared with other people in the team.
Monaco is a small place in Europe where Formula 1 races on city streets. The track is very tight and twisty, so being there (and driving around nearby) feels like a once-in-a-lifetime experience.
The Ford Mustang is a famous American sports car. It’s the kind of car people associate with power and style, and here it’s used as the car Verstappen drove while they were in Monaco for an F1 weekend.
In F1, the championship is the season-long contest where drivers earn points at each race. The host is saying the title fight was decided by how the final race went.
Oscar Piastri is a Formula One driver. They’re talking about him as someone who could win big if he performs well enough.
Person
Adrian Nui
This sounds like Adrian Newey, a very famous Formula One engineer. The host is saying he’s under a lot of pressure because the team’s results depend on the car he helps design.
In F1, “regulations” are the rules that tell teams what they’re allowed to build and how the race is run. When rules change, teams usually need time to adjust their cars and make them work well.
LIVE
Matt, you were the only person to have had unprecedented access to Christian Horner and
Max Verstappen during the 2025 season, where Christian Horner left the team,
Max Verstappen nearly left the team. So, what did you learn?
Gosh, that's a very good question.
Met Magendi!
He spent a year embedded in Red Bull Racing during their most turbulent season.
Big crash for Yuki Sonoda!
With Max, we've heard these stories of leaving him on the side of the road if he didn't get a
certain result. Do you see anything in him that was a result from the stories we hear about his
earliest years? It's an interesting one because Joss in the book had talked to him about that.
He actually remembers that story differently, but it was still a fascinating insight in that
they didn't speak to each other for a week. GP, Max Dynamic, Christian Horner tells me a story of
one time how he bought both of them ice lollies to help them cool down after they weren't talking
post-race. That's something that you'd only know if you were inside.
What are some of the most shocking stories you've heard that have surprised you on how teams
work like Red Bull? The thing that sometimes gets overlooked on Helmut was him that pushed for
Horner to come the team boss in his early 30s. It was Helmut that was pushing the hardest for
Horner to leave as well. That fair to say, together they were really close but that relationship broke
down. Christian Horner, the whole F1 community was pitchforks and fire on the sticks for his
removal. And I have to admit, it got to the point where I was like, I've never seen someone so
resilient to not leave. He took the pressure for everybody, so he would take the flak for a Max
was stepping and he'd done something on track or other misdemeanor by the team. Do you think Max
would be more likely to move team or leave F1 race? That's a good question. I think...
Matt, you have a tremendous amount of insight from studying and watching some of the world's
greatest minds. You've had unprecedented access into places that people could only dream of.
But in your own words, who are you and what do you do?
Yeah, so my name is Matt Magendie. I'm a sports journalist, so for a long time I was the
sports correspondent for the Evening Standard. I am an author as well. This is my third book,
so I wrote a book about big wave surfers in Nazaré and I ghost wrote Chris Hoy's autobiography on
his stage 4 cancer diagnosis and then last season I spent the season with Rebel Racing.
We did a podcast for BBC and then the book off the back of that.
So what kind of access during the most thrilling season in F1 history, the most turbulent season
in F1 history where Christian Orner left the team, Max Verstappen nearly from what we know
left the team, Helmut Marco, Jos Verstappen, controversy. What kind of access did you have
during that season into that world?
Yeah, they were very generous with the access. So it took a bit of time for people to get used to
me being around so that the greatest part of the access, I guess, was speaking to people
because then that's how you understand all these amazing, brilliant minds work within the team.
So you could be at the back of the garage for a session, you could have the headphones on
listening into the team radio, going to the factory being in the ops room, for example,
to get an idea of this other part. You see this trackside team, but then just seeing
there's another 50, 60 other people there during a race feeding back into the track just to see
the sheer volume of people going to powertrains and see this engine being built for next season,
applied technologies, even like their gym facility with the paddle court and things like that.
There's so many different parts to understand how these 2,000 brilliant people put together
this car for Max Verstappen to be able to win races on a Sunday.
And for someone that's obviously been around F1 for years and studied unbelievably great minds
and successful people, was it a level up even for what you were witnessing being inside a Formula
1 team? I think the difficulty is I sort of understand Formula 1, but I've never had an
engineering mind. I'm curious about it, but these people are so much brighter than me.
So the challenge is to, and also for listeners as it was for the podcast, and then readers of
the book to understand in layman's terms, these complexities. And Paul Monaghan is a great example
in the book. He's the chief engineer of car engineering way, way brighter than me,
which he pointed out my brain wasn't always so good at that. But so to be able to begin to
understand some of the complexities of the car, and I feel like I've only tapped the surface
so much more that you don't fully understand, don't fully comprehend.
It's not just the complexities of the car, it's complexities of the people. Because especially
the people that people see on television and on Netflix, they are under an incredible amount of
pressure. And when you just take some of the top individuals at Red Bull, like Max Verstappen,
Christian Horner, that were there in that 2025 season. From Max's perspective, it's what makes
him so great. You must have started to understand and unpick things that you saw within that team
from inside his mind to get him to where he is today. And we're going to delve into that
in a moment. But I also want to delve into Christian Horner, because I think everybody
in their life at some point has been under an incredible amount of stress or pressure. But I
have never seen anybody cope with that level of pressure and stress before for such a long
level of time without waving the white flag to send help. But if we start with Max, is he one of
the most toughest individuals you've ever come across? And do you think that's because of his
childhood? It's interesting you say that. But if you see him within like the energy station,
which is their hospitality bit for the race weekend, is, I mean, this is comparable to the
Canada, just a really normal guy, incredibly humble, down to earth, very gracious. And it doesn't
matter if he's dealing with the owners of the team to, you know, the lesser members of the team,
I'm not, you know, putting names to it. But like people, you know, from the very top to the bottom,
he treats everyone equally. And that was what I was impressed by that you've got this absolute
superstar who is an aggressive hard nose racer. But then when it comes down to it, just this
just lovely guy that the mechanics talk a lot. And I always think mechanics are the greatest judge
of of an individual in a Formula One team, you get to understand how that the dynamic between
them and they absolutely worship him, you know, they do anything for him is one of the boys,
they're very tight knit. And also this incredibly humorous guy. So the maximum stuff and we see
on TV, whether it's drive to five or race weekend, we see this racer. And maybe it changed a bit
last season, we're seeing now this warmer personality, this very funny guy. And I think in
the British media, maybe we've shaped him as this nemesis to Lewis Hamilton and then to
Linda Norris and George Russell, for example. But actually, people are beginning to realize
his absolute brilliance. And also, there's more to him than just just just a racer. But I mean,
he Wow, what a race so slow. But people were obviously formed in their earliest years, a lot
of what we've got today and we're sat here and the way we are as a result of things that has
happened in our childhood. And people say to when it comes to max, when the helmet goes on,
that is a lion, you know, it's the term that's used a lot, he's completely unlocked.
His dad would have been around when he was younger racing. We've heard these stories of
leaving him on the side of the road if he didn't get a certain result and having to walk home and
all of those things. Do you see anything in him when he's around the paddock, we're getting in
the car that was a result from the stories we hear about his earliest years? Oh, it's an interesting
one because Joss in the book had talked to him about that he actually remembers that story
differently of being left by the roadside. So actually, but but it was still a fascinating
insight in that they didn't speak to each other for a week. You know, after that, they didn't
speak father and son, he was that sort of crossing. So that's quite a hard, hard parenting. But at the
same time, he explains that Joss that that made him or helped shape the racer he was that became
this competitive animal. And, you know, Joss probably gets a hard press from a lot of people
actually can only on my experience. And he was lovely to me and very charming, very engaging.
And you actually see how close a bond they have together. But it is amazing what Joss did, you
know, he knew, you know, he was a Formula One driver in his own right, managed to get on the
grid was good teammates with Michael Schumacher, you didn't get up to the very highest highest level,
you know, winning in the scrimpries and championships. And he talks nicely about how he
thought he was a good driver until his son came along in Formula One. And it's a different, you
know, he's a whole new level beyond him. But but Joss needs enormous credit for that.
You know, he pushed him on the on the track, you know, he was that pushy parent who see that in
a lot in this in elite sports. And I don't think he'll make any apology for that. And I've seen
that across the various sports you see it in tennis, golf, football, whatever that that that
happens. But the other bit also is he was his driver. So he picked up from school on a Friday
and take him off to races. He was his mechanic. So he would be in the garage, working on every
aspect of the car. And what people don't understand is the Verstappen technical brain. He's so so
sharp. He's got such a good brain and understanding of the car. Ben Hodgkinson in charge of powertrains
explained to me how the complexity of questions Max asked when he was going around that part of the
factory was really impressive. And but but Joss will be working on the car the whole time. So Max
fully understood it. So there's that big element of the of the Joss bit at play there kind of
multifaceted. And what's very sweet is they talk about those carting days as their sort of almost
favorite time, obviously winning the world title, first time, second, third, fourth, very special.
But that bond between father and son was clearly special. And of short, sure, there were points
where it was hard. I guess you need that in elite sport. And and and he was more pushy as a parent
that perhaps I would have been. But wow, we've come we're quite a racer off the back of it.
It's funny because there's like a father and son duo in another part of the world,
not even in sport, that I kind of reflect on on Max and Joss, and it's Elon Musk and Errol Musk.
And when you hear about how Errol was to Elon growing up, and I've heard several stories about
this, I've heard the biographer that wrote the book about Elon's life sort of talk about this,
you've got some time there. There's so many similarities between Errol Musk and Joss for
Stappen. And the way that Errol, if Elon come home and said, oh, he'd been bullied, or, you know,
a kid took advantage of him or whatever, he said, well, there's probably a reason for that you
probably deserve to be. And there's a few things that I kind of see in the Joss and Max story of
things that we hear that are quite similar. But the difference is that Errol and Elon no longer
talk, they've no longer got that bond. But Joss and Max do so it clearly couldn't have had that much
of a bad impact on Max's life the way he was brought up. It's interesting you say that because
when you see them together, they're laughing and joking. They have got a very tight bond. They often
travel together in the private jet tour from the races, spend quite a lot of time together.
And it's really sweet that Joss says the thing he's proudest of of Max is not all these amazing
race wins, these whole sitting laps, these incredible qualifying laps, but it's just of what
he's like as a human being. He's just a lovely, humble, down to earth guy, real family man.
And I think that's quite that's quite sweet. There's a lot about that. I sort of think that
Joss really is has got a hard edge to him. And I think he would admit that. But Max's mum is the
key figure there, as well as genetically giving her another pool of racing genes,
because she was a very accomplished car to race against Jensen Button and Christian Horner,
for example. But also, she's a lovely human being, I think maybe gave that softer side.
So that double part to his personality, how he is has shaped him into actually,
just as his dad says, a lovely human being. It's really interesting to talk about because
obviously a mass audience could quite easily say people that listen to this podcast, you know,
if you take a big group of people, oh yeah, but is he happy? What is that upbringing the way to
raise a child, you know, under immense pressure, you know, stories, believing them at the track
or doing this or being extremely hard? Is that the right thing to do? But then in your experience,
is all the greatest sports people and athletes you've written about all had that similar upbringing?
And are they happy now? It's interesting. There's not a one size fits all. There is quite often,
there is a pushy parent within an elite sportsman or woman. I wouldn't say that's always the case.
I talked about Chris Hoye having done his book, for example, his parents just don't seem like
that at all. They just like really nice down to earth, not saying, yeah, it's nice, but just
really sort of down to earth and not pushy, but I wasn't there to experience that element.
So you can get to the very top without that. It definitely takes something within the individual,
but as kids, we can be lazy as a teenager, you know, you just don't want to do certain things
or whatever it is. And that needs a push somewhere. And it's hard for us to judge whether that's
healthy, unhealthy. You don't know. But what I would say is, yeah, I mean, Verstappen has turned
into a remarkable sportsman and a good guy. Yeah. I mean, the pushy bit has certainly helped shake
that definitely helmet mark. I feel to again, a wider audience, even an audience that's pretty
up to date and watches most races, people still sort of struggled to get their head around what
Helmut's role actually was in that team. And I suppose if you were an outsider, you could
almost see him as a bit of an uncle to Max. I mean, he's always with the yacht. He's always with Max.
He's always seems to have Max's best interests at heart, even seems to be when picking second
drivers. But no one could really understand this dynamic between Christian Horner,
Josperstappen and Helmut. Yeah, okay. And where that kind of sat. Would you say that's a fair
sort of statement to make that you that Helmut was a bit like an uncle to Max?
Yeah. So yeah, or like a second dad, like because he brought him into the team at such a young age
and beat off people like Mercedes who were keen on him. So it's really key that he got in him and
saw his talent and brought him in like he did a Seb Vettel. He wouldn't have thought you'd get
another four time world champion into the team and they did that. But the thing that sometimes
gets overlooked on Helmut, as well as being, you know, part of team Verstappen in this very
close team. He's so enormous in what happened with this team. His best friend was Dietrich
Matyshitz, who owned Red Bull and sadly passed away a few years ago. And it was him that persuaded
Matyshitz to buy the Jaguar team in the first place. It was him that pushed for factory rebuilds.
Amazingly, it was him that pushed for Horner to come the team boss in his early thirties when
that was a bit of an eye raising appointment. And then on top of that, he was the guy in charge
of the academy, these young drivers. And we've seen the brilliance of Vettel and Verstappen,
but you forget the other people came through like Pierre Gasly now, Alpine, Carlos Sainz, Alex
Albon, Williams, all doing brilliant stuff at different teams. And so he's been very integral
in that. But he is quite a scary uncle, I guess, if we're calling him an uncle figure, you know,
definitely got this sort of steely look to him and he can look. He would be the villain in the
fair. He would be a villain. He would be a good Bond villain. But actually, again,
his personality is not like that. He's got a very, I mean, maybe he can be pretty hard and
the way he's cut certain drivers and dealt with certain drivers. But he's got a really funny
sense of humor as well. There's always a little chuckle in the sly comment here and there.
So is it fair to say that Helmut's kind of career at Red Bull was the right place,
right time with the right opinion to his friend?
I mean, yeah, he, well, they both had a shared love of motorsport. So he was the guy that
got Mattishitz to do this. But then he gives great credit to Mattishitz because it was Mattishitz
who made these bold decisions. The reason when things unraveled was Mattishitz passed away and
that left a bit of a power vacuum and a struggle. And we saw how that played out 2024, 25. And
it's now settled with obviously people having left, etc., which is a shame that it ended in
certain acrimony for some of them, because they did such brilliant, brilliant things together.
They won so many drivers and constructors, championships, races, there's an incredible
entry point to Red Bull, which has just thought a ceiling of all the trophies that they've won.
And I'm sure they're running out of space there because it's just, as far as you can see up,
I don't know, six levels or whatever, there's just trophy upon trophy, which testament to all
the success that Helmut, Christian and others have had. I think one of the most shocking things
you said then for me was the fact that it was Helmut that pushed for Christian to join the
team at the start of his career. Because certainly the way the media portrayed it to be, it was
Helmut that was pushing the hardest for Horner to leave as well, that fair to say.
So I'd say Helmut deserves great credit for Christian Horner, who was brilliant for the
team. I actually really think, and together, they were really close, but that relationship broke
down. Horner was among those who were pushing to try and push Marco to decide that perhaps no
longer needed the team. And there's lots of parts of play. You hear the Helmut-Marco dynamic,
the Joss Verstappen dynamic, but I think also you've got the dynamic of Austria, the Red Bull
headquarters, a change in leadership there, and they wanted more of a say and an ownership of
that team. So quite a few different facets that played a part in Christian leaving.
Christian, though, was at the team for God knows how many years. I don't even know the numbers.
Is it 14? He won seven World Champs? I'd say 20 years and 405 races, something like that. And
he never missed a single Grand Prix, which is an astonishing statistic.
And he came under such pressure, especially from what we saw in the media at the end of
24 and under 25, from just everyone really, because obviously something extremely serious
and negative had happened. And I don't think anyone really knows the result of that to this day,
to be honest, and the intricacies of it. But since then, it seemed like everybody,
the whole F1 community was pitchforks and fire on sticks for his removal.
And I have to admit, it got to the point where I was like, I've never seen someone so resilient to
not leave. It's like that scene, like, I'm not leaving in the Wolf of Wall Street. Like, he almost
ended up like that. Is that kind of a fair thing to say? So actually, Paul Monaghan, who had touched
on before, is remarkable how Christian had the amazing ability to never knowingly be stressed.
You know, all this stuff, I remember the cost gap thing was happening, there was great pressure on
there, and then the stuff in the 24 season as well. For the most part, actually looking like
it was okay, like, you know, he could, he could fight this battle and he would survive and he
was a great survivor in that regard. What is astonishing, I think about him is he took the
pressure for everybody. So he would take the flak for a Max Verstappen who'd done something on
track or other misdemeanor by the team. He was the one and he was happy to take all that heat.
I've no idea how he did it, because he's just, he's just taken out on board. It can't be healthy,
but he seemed to be always okay with it. On top of that, he ends up being a bit cognitive at times
with it, which I like personally, but how he copes with that level of stress and being in
charge of that number of people and all the dynamic and the politics both within the team
and externally. It's amazing. I assume you find it fascinating seeing from a distance even.
Why was Horner chosen for that role by Marco? So I think what he saw, because he was in charge of
a team in the junior formula and he was in a rival to Marco and he saw this entrepreneur,
this guy that had a spark to him. He liked how operationally he nimbly was within the race team.
He liked the way he thought, the way approached. He was young, he was fresh and you've got to
think Red Bull have always been this young, you know, it's aimed at you, the young, exciting
brand and that was the same then. So bring in a young person. Amazing leap of faith by him to
bring in someone with no F1 experience at all. And Horner talks about walking in and people are
looking at him going, you know, just got rid of the boss that anyone's ever known and they're like,
who is this guy? He was younger than one of the drivers, David Coulthard at the time.
Clearly, it was a great call by Marco because look at what they did and everyone in Red Bull
deserves credit from from Matter Shits to Marco to Horner to Adrian Newey and the various drivers
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me on this podcast. There's so many of those people that you've just mentioned are no longer there.
Christian Horne are no longer there. Adrian Newey aren't no longer there. Helmut Marco are no longer
there. All these people are leaving. Do you still think Red Bull will have any success over this set
of regulation? Yeah I do actually. So you've got to remember that while those people have left
one of their great strengths was employing the right people. So you've got Marco bringing in of
a stepper and Adrian Newey bringing in like a Pierre Vacher and lots of brilliant people. Horne
was very good at recruiting as well bringing in Bed Hodgkinson from Mercedes who were 170 of his
team from Mercedes to start the engine project Powertrains. You've got to remember that while
some people have left within the team we've heard stories of the exodus. There are lots of still
brilliant people there. The hand of Horne and Newey are still there because they brought these very
clever people. Now Newey as we know is the greatest designer the Formula One's ever seen and when you
lose someone like that that's an enormous miss for the team but he had built some brilliant people
around there and beneath him for that to continue and they're so good still you know even post
Newey era just seeing I don't know how much you're watching the races but on a Friday you turn up
and in first practice Red Bull are nowhere there's problems with the cars understeer,
oversteer, brake balance you hear Max Verstappen over the radio was complaining and by Saturday
they're pushing for pole or they're pushing for a race on a Sunday and that ability for both the
engineers, the mines and the mechanics to all work together to push and changing so quickly and
we've seen them improve and we saw from sort of Miami I think it was onwards that they have
greater pace they're off the pace of the Mercedes but yeah I do I do think they'll be they'll be
picking up a race win before too long. So I've interviewed so many people from the world of
F1 from the paddock I've even not put some interviews live because I thought they were just
too press trained I thought they were you know I just couldn't break down the barriers of the
press training but your book Inside Red Bull Racing so take us inside away from what we see
on the press how what was the most pressure that someone like Christian Horner was
under behind the scenes at what point was he under the most pressure to leave?
For me personally I felt it was in Austria so obviously he was removed from the team just
after Silverstone so he had Austria then then the British Grand Prix was the next race but in
Austria the the owners were both there from the Austrian side and the Thai side and it really
felt this sense of pressure really more noticeable than any other race some people other journalists
have different view on it some thought that was more there in Silverstone interesting I didn't
feel it as much in Silverstone I'll tell you I hadn't passed but it didn't feel as surmountable
like in Austria it's the home race for the team so there was extra iron on there all the bosses
are there and that just felt that felt huge that moment I remember I was going to be talking
taller at some point and he's sort of about to do an interview with him post race and he got whisked
away up to the top floor you know the more important you are at Red Bull at the energy station the
higher you go and I never got to the top floor so it wasn't important enough but generally that's
where the owners were when they were in a race and so obviously he was called up to talk to them
and it felt something was amiss I've got to be honest I didn't think that would equate despite
the sort of reports of rifts etc that would equate to his removal as as then followed how
look within the team you've mentioned that like someone like bestappen would talk to
everybody no matter who inside I guess fans just get the interviews the press training bit
but when you actually boot on the ground inside a team and the team hears like everybody else
there's turmoil what does that visually look like is that people walking fast through the
energy station at the top floor is it with their head in their hands can you visibly see stress
how does that look inside a team inside Red Bull well it's an interesting question actually I
think because what is good about the team is they all know their individual roles to play
so despite there's pressure at the top that's kind of not their business so so many of the team even
even higher up people are just focused on their role so they're just pushing for whatever the
the strategies are pushing for that to the number one mechanic is pushing on that element
there's some composite people doing that bit you know that so everyone's focused on that element
saying that the one of the most stressed individuals I've ever seen is Pierre Vache
so the technical director he always looks stressed he's got he wears this this great sort of
Gallic look of looking under pressure and stressed even when um maybe the pressure's not so there
there's a point when Max I think gets a poll maybe in Maloan he basically says on the race radio
chill out Pierre which I thought was quite funny because obviously he'd been stressing whatever
so you see different personalities stress I remember a tire deflating one of the last races
in the final race in Abu Dhabi just before going out for qualifying and seeing Paul Monaghan and
this guy called Greg Reason who gets called the tire whisperies the guy in charge of Max
Persepolis tires so I love the nickname so working like performing CPR and in that moment you see
the utter utter stress and the adrenaline rush of those guys dealing with that fighting that fire
that specific moment so you do have pockets of it but it's such a high pressure high stress world
that people can remain amazingly cool with it I think listening to the team radio like a strategist
will Courtney Hannah Schmitz they are always always the coolest people they feel like that's
the highest pressure because they've got to make these calls at this moment you're going to pit
now vsc under the virtual safety car safety car whatever happens they're making those calls
and I'm so impressed they say it's not like that it's like a you know when you have a look a swan
over the water but actually underneath that they're going 100 miles an hour there with
through the water but they are so impressive how cool they can stay
why did the Verstappen camp and Helmut have such a dislike to Horner after so much success to want
him out why did that happen like after so much success as you talk about together why did that
happen did the helmet want to be team principal did you else want to be team principal so I think
Joss's thing is always pushing the best for Max so that's the fight that he'll always do and he
makes no apologies for that so that's his perpetual quest Horner was trying to sideline Marco and also
Horner wanted to take a bit of ownership in Red Bull he pushed to Matt Schitz the founder Matt
Schitz for a stake in the team and then before his death and then afterwards and the Red Bull
were very clear it was you know going to stay Red Bull racing it was their ownership but nothing
else so there's a lot of the power politics that went went behind the scenes what I thought was
interesting is I thought that had ridden the storm so when he survived 2024 and all of the
stuff that happened it seemed when I arrived at the team it seemed like a pretty peaceful
setup when I turned up at Bahrain for the testing but you know perhaps it turns out it was an uneasy
piece but I don't it's so difficult how these relationships break down you know power people
are all under power and success and control and stuff and everyone's pulling at different ways and
so at some point something has to give and and and that's the way it fell apart and it's sad
really and I'm sure he'll reflect on that I mean that they'll all reflect they will talk
positively still about each other because of the success they had but it's a shame that it ended
in a sour note it did but it was I mean very dramatic though do you think the more competitive
person are the more hungry you are for power it's a good question I mean probably you know because
you're you're always on that quest for more aren't you whether that's more money more power more
control um yeah it's an interesting question but there was a lot of people wanting like they are
so competitive like I haven't had experience close hand of other teams but the competitiveness
within that team is fascinating you take the drill as you think of Max Verstappen very competitive
apparently the engineers are even more crazy when they have this inter-team paddle contest
it's the engineers who are the most competitive and and so to see that you don't just have a race
like that you've got an engineer like that you've got a team boss like that a technical director
like that and I find that fascinating they're all pushing in that way together Lambiasi and Hannah
Schmidt they both sit on the pit wall they both had to deal with the wrath of Max when he's extremely
angry or unhappy they've both had to deal with happy Max and keeping him happy by making him win
every single race and not making a mistake and performing properly to the same standards as he
does but they've also come under some of the most pressure in those real pressure cooker
moments as well and what I'm trying to get at is when media go on and sell
there's so much pressure inside the team it's so bad everybody's feeling it it's the way stress
leaks through skin like do you think it's almost contagious when something like that's going on
like a power struggle and they hear about it in the media and they see I don't know Hannah sit down
on the pit wall and drop something a bit hard and all the rest of it do you think that does have
impact on like tenths on track I mean it's interesting because what I'm saying about that the whole
point about Horner while he was feeling that he didn't show that stress so I think that was what
was so impressive and by him you know he might be under a normal stress and people be aware of
the power politics or maybe they weren't weren't so aware but he would give off that vibe that all
was fine and don't worry I've got it in hand and every time that had been the case and he said it
was fine it'll be okay it proved to be the case so everyone believed him so I don't think that
stress knocked on and certainly didn't have any impact on time on track I don't believe I don't
think they lose their focus from that personally. Did you not think when a group of WhatsApp images
and pictures started getting shared around the entire F1 paddock that that was the end of Horner?
But I cannot believe he hung on. You know everything that happened in that team and his
leadership and he was obviously under threat etc he survived that so I thought if he'd survive
that that was tough year that he would definitely survive so it took me by surprise
that he was cut when when he was cut. Do you think if Horner had even just one percent
ownership in that team that would be a straw that would be enough for him to have hung on?
I don't think so personally I think you know we see the way he's shaping it now he's wanting a
stake within a team that's part of his push to come back onto the Formula Grid to have
house ownership now I don't know what one percent would equate to now because these things are worth
a worth billion so maybe that is a reasonable stake but yeah I don't know the answer to that one.
Verstappen and the Verstappens yeah how close in 2025 did they come to leaving?
I personally don't think it was as close as everyone made out what they were doing is
they've got the fastest driver on the grid and obviously then they want the fastest machinery
to go with that driver so quite sensibly as a business as a team they're going to look at
the other options out there so they know they're you know Red Bull have been hugely competitive
and they're very grateful for what he's done for what they've done for him you know signing
him in the first place giving him all the success but it makes sense to look elsewhere
and there were the whispers that Mercedes were going to have the best engine next season
and be the quickest car and that's proved the case so the conversations happen there
but while there was a lot of chat about this release clause and he was outside the top three
in the summer he could go I never felt that he was going to go personally he talks about
having immense loyalty this to the team he told Matt Eschitz that his ideal would be to stay at
the team until you know the end of his career and I still believe he'd like to do that and
but he just needs to see there's enough there and I felt he saw that there was enough there and
you saw what happened last season that was bonkers and while it's a leap of faith to trust them with
a new engine going into this season there's still enough to suggest that team can be competitive
and get back to the top again it's interesting that we have this Mercedes rumour in 24 again last
season and now the rumour mill is there again that he might walk away to another team or he
might walk away from the sport altogether so yeah that'd be a question for you after interviewing
him and speaking with Max do you think Max would be more likely to move team or leave race
at Formula One racing I was interested at the start of the season that I really think is
displeasure at it I did think it was you know likely or possible certainly they could take
a sabbatical from the sport so I don't think you know that would be the most likely option now
the direction it's going in with the regulation changes more in favour more towards his way of
thinking I still believe he'll be a Red Bull driver next season again here there's a clause that
allows him to talk elsewhere if he's outside the top two which he will be there's others that think
he'll be at Mercedes and there's lots of talks and all that stuff and there's so much you know
what it's like there's so many rumour mills going on in Formula One but if I was to guess I would
think that the staff will be staying in Formula One and he'd stay with Red Bull next season but
you know so many things in Formula One you don't see coming so never seen of it
just rumour mills though sometimes you get a shock yeah for a rumour mill even has a chance
to go around and one of those for me was Lambiassi you know announcing that he's going to be going
to McLaren is that not Max checking out of the sport in some way shape or form do you think he
would take on another race engineer before leaving Formula One well we don't entirely know what the
Lambiassi role is there was sort of trap that he was off to be team principal there and then
McLaren were like oh no be team principal so so if if there's a chance
of him going on to that be that role that's obviously a step up which you wouldn't be able to do at
his team so Max is going to understand that you know that draw they will have had a very open
conversation that that you know if there's that opportunity to go up in the world and to be in
charge of a team which may or may prove the possibility then I don't you know I think that's
happened with Max's blessing and it's not necessarily indicative that oh well GP's leaving so Max must
be leaving but I can see how you put how people have naturally put that together because you
you certainly raised the question in your head how often are these people talking to other teams
what is the team which hunt like with inside Formula One the thing is so many teams so many
people within the teams flip between different teams at different points so everyone knows each
other and you'll see a Aston Martin guy chatting to a rebel guy McLaren guy to Mercedes guy that
could be at the top of it the bottom but whatever it is it's everyone is talking I think everyone
is always sniffing around who they can get but I think it happens a lot you know it's a close knit
world it's you know these teams are different like football for example you don't have a you
know Arsenal part next to Manchester United part next to Manchester City but these guys are at a
race you know McLaren side by side with Mercedes Ferrari they're right up and close so it's quite
easy to have these conversations at some point over the course of the weekend. We spoke about
earlier do you see Red Bull still being successful without some of those key people in the team but
we hear about the names that have left Adrian Newey Helmut Marco obviously Christian Horner
so many people and so many second drivers which we'll get on to but is there also been a mass
exodus below those names and there's been a fair few people that have left but this happens in
Formula One people you know there was a mass exodus from Mercedes after they'd had their great
period of success this happens and you see a lot of people leave and there is quite a merry
go-round within Formula One but one part of that is that let's say you've had this amazing success
and you see Red Bull winning everything so you're like if you're from another team you like I'd like
that guy like Lambiasi because he's doing something but also the other engineers so people start coming
after Max's other engineers and there's no way necessarily if there's not a place for those
them to go within the team they're at then it makes sense for them to naturally look elsewhere
when they're approached and also there's the elements of the cost cap you know there's only
so much people can be paid in those roles who lose them so I think a lot of younger engineers
are moving around as well or or quite often they're going outside of Formula One to other areas
to Red Bull themselves believe that their second seat is the hardest in Formula One to fail
it's just it's not so much it's just that that second seat is going against the best driver so
that's the hardest challenge so you are going up against the very very best and everyone will
agree with this that Verstappen is the very best driver there is he's just so good and so in going
up against that is so hard I've been quite impressed with Isaac Hajar how he's done
but I think the challenge from Red Bull is more to sort of inform that number two the second driver
that don't try you know you can't help it as a driver with your ego to want to beat don't think
okay this is about beating Verstappen you just need to do your own thing push yourself to limit
feed off him learn off him etc but don't try and necessarily take him on head on that's the mistake
I think a lot of drivers have made and then they try and do it they spin off or they look at these
the Delta and see well how the hell's he done that and it gets into their head and it slowly
breaks them down you see it with so many drivers in the past but don't do that I think Hajar
is understanding a patient to learn his own game and I'm not saying he doesn't lack for
confidence and belief but he's sort of doing quite a sensible building of it so it would be
interesting to see how he how he fares throughout the season you talk about the fact there's 2000
men and women at Red Bull when they just sack a driver after two races inside a season how does
that make 2000 people feel well they they react like you or I would they're like what you know
like a surprise but Formula One is a cutthroat business and everyone knows that that was
particularly cutthroat if you ask me it's difficult for certain people so whether factory it doesn't
really change your role necessarily you know things what your job would say the same whether
you're doing that for Liam Lawson or Yuki Sonoda the impact it would have is on the engineering
team around a driver who spent you know Richard Wood for example to have spent the winter and
then those early races getting to know someone and then having to that has an impact on that
smaller team but it just shows the brutality of the sport it can be nasty especially after 2021
yeah brutality was absolutely huge and it was probably maybe the most pressure even though
the staff and one potentially the most pressure that he's been under so far would have been that
2021 season I don't know whether you'd agree with that but like I've seen so many friends
of mine that absolutely detested Max turned into Max fans what last season I think probably
progressively are the last four seasons rather than just like an honor off do you find that that's
does that have any effect on the team whatsoever when they see all the driver when like
you see that they're convincing more and more I don't I don't think it impacts
him because he's fine in his bubble what you see is what you get he makes apologies that's it but I
do think it makes a difference the team one of Red Bull's great strengths is they've always had this
us against them mentality you know we're the bad guys the villains everyone hates us and that's
that's often the playbook there and I think there was an element of surprise last season for some
members of the team the goodwill towards them along the along the paddock and I think sometimes
they don't realize actually how loved they are and what why I say last season particular
McLaren were running away with that title they probably should have won it much earlier with
with you know either Norris or or Piastry but it didn't happen and this underdog story you know
it's funny to call Max an underdog having one poor chairman should see that to it suddenly there was
such goodwill towards people who love the sport and love the competition you know they may have
dominated but it would be a fun story if they take it to the wire I think there was a lot
of good good feeling towards Red Bull and that changed but I quite like them keeping this us
against them combative mentality because it's it's part of what makes them so strong it's a big
question because you see Lando grandstands at Silverstone you see all of these different things
you see Red Bull is Austria's track it's like going to you know Barcelona as the away team like
but in formula one when your visor's down I don't know how much of the crowd you can hear or see
when you're being transported between very very little do you hear it the one that I found fascinating
is do you remember the Mexico Grand Prix there's this area called Foro Sol and they stand out
they wear the old big hats at the end it's where their podium is and it was a baseball stadium back
in the day but it's a massive stand and they say the drivers say when you go through there you can
hear it and that is a hell of a buzz they say even doesn't matter how many races you've done
you normally so focus on that to hear that noise that wave that greets you and actually
Verstappen got very good response in Mexico I think they were worried about it because he's the guy
that used to beat Czecho Perez and that's the Mexican favorite but actually the noise I remember
going there a couple times during the race just to get a sense of it the volume of crazy crazy
Mexican fans was amazing but I think for the most part they don't hear it maybe they do at
Silverstone a British driver might do come and pass the grandstand but you gotta remember these
engines aren't as loud as they used to be but they're still they're still pretty loud I guess
what I'm getting at is when you see a sea of orange smoke and orange t-shirts at somewhere like
the Netherlands does that add a tenth or not does it have the same effect as maybe you know
being a football match where the players can hear absolutely everything does it have an effect
or are they so closed off and in their zone does it necessarily matter if there's any fans there
or not it's a good question okay and I think it varies from driver to driver Nigel Menzel always
had that line it was worth a second a lap the fans at Silverstone were like okay he's slightly
overplaying it but I liked the idea he genuinely believed that that lifted him I think it happens
for a Hamilton for example he loves that that gets feeds off the crowd off his fans and while
Verstappen is a big big fan of his fans you know loves all the support and he's very gracious time
with it I'm not sure it does make a difference to him I think he is as good as brilliant as quick
in material whether it's an empty track in a COVID generation or grandstands full in Zandvoort I
don't personally think it matters but it's a really interesting question because I think
there's a different answer for different drivers there has there ever been a point where you think
Red Bull would feel like Max is damaging them on the other way around like when I mean that I say
when you see him like on a sim you know playing with his mates the night before at 4 a.m. a race
the next morning being like I should probably go to bed now guys we've got Formula 1 race in the
morning what do you do you think they mention that to him in a briefing or in press and say Max
like that probably wasn't a good idea I mean they might mention it I don't know it would
necessarily to him directly I might mention it to his team but I don't think they'd have a quibble
with it because whatever he's done has worked you know whatever he's doing just stick with doing I
don't think it affects him you know he's probably probably a bit more sensible to tucked up in bed
a bit earlier than that on a race day but whatever it is he's doing seems to be working and that
sim thing it's interesting you talk about that he's obsessively in the sim and some drivers don't
do that at all like he just loves it Lauren Mechiers just says to me one point in the book
that he'd ring him on like a Monday after a race and he can't chat because he's 23 hours
into a little sim session at home is this is how obsessed this guy is how much he loves racing
and he's still you know still trying to get better even when he's the best of the best
do you find it amazing that he's managed to build and sustain a family around Formula 1
with how much time he spends racing yeah it must be difficult I mean for journalists it's
difficult for people within the teams it's difficult to keep a family going but yeah all
credit to him that he has done that I mean they see a lovely little unit when you see them
when you see them together him and his partner and the girls they just yeah all credit to him
as a human being and probably more so her because she's the one holding the fort when
he's not there and I think they come to races when they can and all of his times with family when
it's not at the race I probably helped saving a private jet because you can arrive a bit later
and leave a bit earlier maybe that maybe that cuts down the dynamic of it but uh I'm just imagining
inside the Verstappen home like if you or I were to get back from a race and I imagine it
with my partner who's incredibly supportive like I take my partner to be incredibly supportive
and understands what I do and I'm away from home a lot but if I walked through the door
and just sat down on the sim pretty much straight away and started racing for three or four hours
I think she'd start to get cheese dog but you're taking so you would imagine when they got together
he was doing that then as well so she already knew that's that's him that's his dynamic this is how
this is how he works and and she knows that when he's given the time for family it's completely
there I mean I don't know I'm not inside there inside their home setup but yeah I would imagine
the Verstappen of when they met the Verstappen of now is as driven and focused and racing kind of
obsessed do you think though that that's what makes max different to the guys in the second seat
at Red Bull there is no give in any way shape or form it is like his way or no way well I think
if we talk about the sim side of things I think if you talk about difference between drivers
because of that um and his dad talks about it to me that that you've all these drivers got brilliant
feel they're the best drivers in the world they've got lovely handling they really are super quick
but this extra stuff that he does gives him a max yos was saying the sort of visual backup
that the eyes are that much more so he has that and and it's sort of more working in conjunction
the feel of it to the visual element and that sim thing gives him that a lot because
it's a totally different dynamic that to how you'd feel in the car I think that sounds like I'm not
saying he's the only one that does it but I think he's probably the one that does it the most talking
about family yeah Red Bull are one of the teams on the grid to have a second team a sister team
racing balls when you're inside Red Bull how much do those teams actually talk to each other and
and a sharing information except they seem to operate entirely separately if you take an example
of the energy station which I mentioned before this this quite cool set up for hospitality it's the
home for both Red Bull and racing balls at a race weekend if you have to go in there at kind of
all the Red Bull lot are sitting together on the left hand side the racing balls lot are
sitting together but quite like that I remember thinking one sort of an aside to that is at
the Belgian Grand Prix the first race where Laurel Mechiers was in charge he walks in and rather
than turn to the right he's just old habits die hard he turned to the left realized that wasn't
the way he's meant to kind of be going I think a lot of us I did that in a pit box recently when
he went to the wrong garage to get his tires fitted these things happen so actually they you
know they'll talk to each other and stuff but they I do believe they operate very independently
you know the garages while they share this thing their garages are far away on the grid because
of their position from the previous season in the championship I think Laurel Mechiers was surprised
to get the job but Red Bull so suddenly as he cope with it wow yeah I think he was surprised I think
when he got the call it took him by surprise and he was like hmm I'm going to have to think about
that I don't think he took long he chatted to his wife and his wife said I think you've got to take
I think it was a no-brainer I have been really impressed with him he's a very different leader
to Christian Horner but no less sort of steely and competitive you know he can be this more
smiley kind of veneered to him but that you know sort of that's in contrast to how competitive he
is how much the fire burns inside him I think but Christian Horner was the one that wasn't
isn't there anymore yeah Joss and Max are still in the team do they have more of a say than Laura
Mechiers no I think very much Laurel is the is the team boss so what is a bit different is that
above Laurel you've got Oliver Mintzlath who's the over sort of sees the sporting operations for
Red Bull and Ahmet Merkan who is in number two who oversees the motorsports side of things so it's
more you know a group of leaders there but Laurel very much is the is the man in charge he's the
he's the team principal and the CEO when things aren't going Max's way probably Hannah and
Lambi I see get the most flak from him sort of in terms of the radio on the pit wall and probably
behind the scenes how much pressure does that in turn fire through the team it's funny because
what you and I would hear over the race radio some of the invective you think well that's brutal you
know that that's not nice but actually they're quite amused by it and I think it's more the GP
Max dynamic they're quite amused by it and quite used to it and what's fascinating is there you
can both be quite passionate and hotheaded and they can be brutal to each other and some of that
there's a great catalogue of different interactions between them over the radio I don't think it has
any great impact they're all they're both pushing to win and they're shared an ambition every now
and again there's a little bit of a someone has come and make peace Christian Horner tells me a
story of one time how he bought both of them ice lollies to help them cool down after they weren't
talking post race but it's you know that happens in the car and almost within a few minutes of
getting out of it they're passionate people once they cool down they're they're cool again
together they're fine they're just this sort of funny odd couple I think someone described that
maybe it was Horner like a bickering couple almost but it works and I don't think
it's not a bad pressure so it puts you know they're putting pressure on each other Max wants the best
you know engineering set up wants the best thing from them but those guys are then pushing for that
so there's pressure from both sides but a pressure that makes them I think greater on track that's
quite a surprise there's not surprising that's something that you'd only know if you were inside
that that Horner would use a trick like buying two people an ice lolly he finds it funny he finds
funny together what are some of the most shocking stories you've heard that have surprised you on
how teams work on the inside like Red Bull I don't know if it's I don't know what it's not really
shocking so an example but I quite liked there's this little story towards end of the season called
kind of got labeled tape gate and so tape um McClary put a marker of tape on the
side of the racetrack to mark an extra point to mark where Lando needed to park on the grid
and someone at Red Bull saw this so they peeled the tape away I think it was funny
and what I loved about that then it happened again um and then they peeled away the tape the next
time and someone at McClary put another bit of tape underneath it saying better luck next time
which is quite funny and then another time when they put the tape down there it was the sort of
tape that breaks apart so you couldn't do it so I really like it's those it's the little it's the
I think the hierarchies of McClary and Red Bull didn't necessarily find it funny but the rest of
the paddock I think did that they're always trying to have a dig at each other in this
competitive nature I love bits of that you don't always see them there's probably countless examples
like that and formula one between teams if you listen into this episode and you're interested
in getting a copy of Matt's book Matt where can you get it I'd say there are a lot of good places
so you can buy in your local book shops and it's in a lot of supermarkets I think they've taken a
fair few copies of it you buy it online so it's here there and everywhere so wherever your choices
of buying it go and get it but inside Red Bull Racing me telling the story of the 2025 season
with the team I've had Kamala Callum Nicholas set yep in the van before it was obviously part of the
Red Bull pit teams in the garage really talented engineer how at war though can the two sides of
the garage be at different points like in terms of a civil war within a team like if there is two
drivers like Checo or Max well really for the championship Max needs to be in front but Checo
might have been on it that weekend especially a few seasons back maybe no one is last but
do the team get points where there is kind of a inter-team civil war it's interesting question
because I'm sure that's happened in the past and I think between Vettel and Weber there was a bit of
angst between the famously between the two sides of the garage but for example if if something had
gone wrong being a crash with Verstappen's car or Sunoda's car and there's a race to get it ready
what you would see is the other half of the garage the sort of you know their rivals would come together
and help with that one so I really love that dynamic where suddenly members of Sunoda's team
come across the Verstappen's and Verstappen's over to Sunoda's and it's just everyone all hands on
deck just trying to fix it because it's all about the great to good for the team partly with Red Bull
and number one my mechanic during the season I was there for Verstappen was Matt Caller and the
number one mechanic for Yuki Sunoda was John Caller his twin brother it was quite hard to
fall out too too much with your twin brother but they talk about how competitive they still are
as a rival you know they want to do the quicker pit stop you know they're always trying to turn
the spanner faster whatever it is like that but I didn't see that any like rivalry to the detriment
it was always about the greater good so impressive in fact when Yuki arrived at Red Bull he was a
very very explosive character when he left Red Bull I'd say that he was a very deflated character
maybe a little bit quieter slightly more thought out who humbled him the most so it's interesting
you say that because I think his was a his was and that was moving so in 2024 he was already
changing he had a bit of a clash at one of the races over the race radio with Daniel Ricciardo
and he talks in a column about how that was like a key turning point so he started to
not necessarily mellow but just be a bit more mature sensible a bit just
sometimes take half a second to think about that and I think I saw that towards the end of 2024
and then the early part of the you know winter and the off season building up with racing balls
and those first two races so I don't think it's a case that he was being sort of coalesced into
or anything like that what bit I think did humble him a little is that crash he had at Imola that
he'd shown some early signs going against the best that he could have some really good pace
there were some practice sessions qualifying the odd race and he was looking really good and building
up something but he crashed the car when he just had a new floor put on and that was such a big
impact because they're expensive things and it dented his confidence it dented perhaps the
team's belief in him and things like that and after that it always felt a bit like he was
chasing and once you're chasing it as a driver where you're sort of pushing it you're not in the
flow in the same way you're never quite as good and still he had some some great moments but I
really feel for him for that Imola moment and I wonder if that hadn't happened how how that story
may have gone it's so often these small things in form I didn't say small things there's a big
crash but it can be one element that can you know be such a key difference so if Red Bull was a top
trumps card you had Mercedes and Alpine and all these different teams and I was buying a top
trumps car oh yeah from the shop what would be the tallest line on that top trumps car
and what would be the bit that they're the weakest that inside but from the car from them as a team
gosh that's a very good question I think it depends let's say category wise
competitiveness I put them as the top trumps you know I know them better than I guess I would
another team but just that sheer competitiveness and maybe other teams would argue this and say
they're just as competitive but that yeah the utter competitiveness I would put as number one in
terms of oh the lowest such a good question this I think perhaps that the inviting and
squabbling we saw last season that probably was you know not a helpful I don't think it
necessarily made them slow but I don't think it was necessarily helpful to them as a team
but then that's kind of gone for this season it was due this season I don't know what the weakness
is I mean yeah yeah so I think last season competitiveness at the top and then the infighting
at the at the bottom do you think pressure of winning and results and just everything always
comes to an end do you think when you've had so much success as Red Bull dead
do you naturally reach the the peak of the mountain in it just has to explode yeah definitely
definitely like Horner talks about that and other team team members that you know it's not
easy to win a world title you know it's very hard but it's even harder to defend that to stay
constantly at the top and it takes certain individuals to be able to do it I'm always
impressed like a total wolf for example being able to do that with Mercedes that period of dominance
the setup that was at Ferrari in the Michael Schumacher years the Vettel then the Verstappen
we've seen all these different periods but but we always see it cycles isn't it you can't sustain
that you can't sustain that because it's just it must be exhausting being at the helm of that
constantly from the moment you wake up to going to bed you're thinking striving for absolute you
know success being brutal just pushing yourself and that can't be sustainable and also because
of that success people move around to other teams and so that gets broken up so you know
are we entering into a Mercedes era of dominance I was thinking we were going to do that but then
then suddenly we've got Ferrari looking pretty good with Lewis Hamilton so she's saying Toto was
genuinely sad when Horner left I actually think he misses a sparring partner I think it keeps them
alive and I think they like the little bicker I think Zach Brown misses him as well they might
not admit it freely but they like this little it sort of keeps them alive this jousting this constant
like little trying to one-upmanship you know trying to get one over each other they're
they're not so dissimilar you know Toto Wolf Christian Horner and Zach Brown they're all
very big characters they're pushing for success but they're huge characters and celebrities now
in their own right like drive to size made them proper celebrities I'm sure they miss it and also
I think the sport miss it because Christian Horner was like the pantomime villain on Drive to Survive
and I think Zach Brown's very worried he'll be he'll be the pantomime villain and I don't think
he'd want to want to be that role do you think there's more communication between the team
principals meet-ups dinners than maybe fans and an audience are actually privy to I think there's
much more of that now because of the sort of shared ownership and the success of that
sport so that there's so much more invested obviously team are always pushing for their
own advantage we've seen that with like engine regulations and you know all these different
things everyone's fighting their corner and battling to make sure the one-upmanship but there
is a greater collective and understanding about the greater good of this sport and you've seen
the success since Liberty Media came in and took it over I mean this was massive already but like
it's off the scale now and these are all billion pounds billions of pounds operations and you see
the money being talked about to buy a quarter of alpine and that's eye watering now how how big so
everyone has a shared collective thing of wanting the success but they can be very nice and civil
this is what I was fine fascinating and often in sports bosses in other sports and top administrators
they can be really nice to nice to each other we're quite happy to step step each other behind
the back away from all the all the nice meals and get together do you think that Verstappen holds
Hamilton in the highest regard on that grid compared to any other driver even after everything they
went through do you think that's caused actually the opposite to be like a very large level of
respect we've not necessarily seen before for a while it is a remarkable level of respect I'd say
yeah I think you're probably right there um I yeah they are they are surprisingly get on
surprisingly well you think despite the acrimony of 2021 it wasn't it's a lot less personal than we
think and they have great respect because they can see brilliance you know they can see the
brilliance and we're so good seeing the Hamilton winning the race the other day seeing that
brilliance and and similarly Hamilton will see they don't talk about each other a lot but he'll
see like a brilliant lap let's say the Suzuka lap or the Immola lap of last season those poll laps
Fernando Alonso I remember being particularly in awe saying only Max could do this um but yeah I think
there is I don't think the loves ever come back between like Fernando or Lewis and the loves never
come never come back between Rosberg that's like ever but I was quite like I think Verstappen
did said something on camera it was on like Red Bull social media and they still posted it
and he said like look world champion world champion he pointed at Lewis getting out of a car
there's like two first people in the paddock but there's there's like I think there is like
quite a level of respect honestly I don't think they hang out together or spend a lot of time together
but they genuinely and they're very gracious to each other with one wins you see how they're quick
to go up to each other yeah there is that's a bit like Messi and Ronaldo yeah do you think
or are they a bit more I don't know I've seen them sat together at different shows
and they both want to be the best they both want to be highly regarded as the best listen you need
you need that person to push you on you need the brilliance of you know Verstappen needed the
brilliance of Hamilton to push him for you know he was already great but but Hamilton pushed him
to that degree and similarly Hamilton would say Verstappen brought things out of him and a driver
that he hadn't you know even that long into his career that he hadn't had before so you these
great rivalries make these champions even even greater don't they you were obviously inside
Red Bulls you got to see what made the great Max Verstappen do you think Kimi Antonelli's the
closest thing on the grid to recreating what Max has become I mean there was so much excitement
when he started last season he had a great start and then it tailed off and I was like oh that's so
sort of a bit disappointing but then this season he has just been brilliant like
he is the most exciting talent since that point and what's so fun is it's hard to compare him to
Verstappen because he's so early so early in his career but the fact he's won that many races that
early youngest Monaco winner you know he had what did he have five wins in a row looked as looked
untouchful and exciting uh also I like there's a bit of feiciness to him I think we saw in Canada
over the race radio I hadn't seen that before I thought he was like this too nice nicely nice
you go but then suddenly okay that's that's the racer that's the one that you know the true
competitive animal um I'd be interested to know Verstappen sees that and thinks oh this is the
next me they probably don't think like that necessarily but uh he's certainly the most
exciting one coming through do the teams have to manage family members quite closely obviously
Yoss is in a bit of a different category where he's been there for so long he maybe commands
that respect and has that aura about him but we see like how passionate Oliver Bearman's that
there it is we see how passionate Adam Norris is and Lando's mom and like Anthony Hamilton
and all of these characters and I've said for a very long time that I think I'd be genuinely
more interested to interview the fathers than the drivers thus ultimately extremely media
trained have been through every interview in the entire world I find some of the fathers absolutely
fascinating but we're like a second driver father in the garage at Red Bull do the teams ever have
to manage those individuals like they get a bit too passionate pushy involved
no because you think this is this is an entertainment game we think of it as sport but
Formula One's an entertainment game we see it was Drives of Fire but it's all about the entertainment
on tv the socials all of that team and everyone loves that everyone loves the the dad crying in
the back or punching the air or the emotional hugs I actually think of anything they'd be
encouraging that pushing that to to see that passion because everyone loves that dynamic of the
of the family we you know they become quite known characters Lando's parents became
they got a lot of camera time on them last season Charlotte Clair's girlfriend now wife
who starts those I think I think of anything they would they would encourage that and also
they want their drivers to be happy and they're happiest when their bubble is around them their
family around them and that's what makes them tick and so they'd want those people to be as
happy as possible I mean that's just my my belief anyway do you ever see frustrations with the
people that are in front of the cameras and the media within the team inside the team being so
controlled in what they can say in an interview like when you're interviewing one of the guys or
and can you tell that the team principles just have that little bit more freedom to talk than the
others I mean they'll always be given some guidance before an interview even the team
principles they'll have sort of messaging or pushing or things I want to talk about you've
remember these are big businesses you know trying to sell cars you know Ferrari or Mercedes that
so they're always quite controlled because they want to control the messaging of the brand etc
and that's an important part of a big business I mean when I first informed on I was surprised
it was the first time I'd encountered it that might sit down for an interview and the interview
would then be recorded I was taken by surprise or there's always someone sitting in with that
it was nice with Red Bull as the season carried on and people got to know me better that quite
often I'd be left alone with some of those interviews and that creates such more a more
unnatural feel sometimes there's a danger you can manage it too much I know we talked about
Helmut Marco before you know they may have tried to manage him but he was the least PR managed
person that I've ever counted I think in sport that he would be told you know be guided of what
to talk about and what not to talk about would he look things he'd be just he would
just talk just openly like I mean there's some people he knew better than others but it's not
he's leaking things he'd say something in a tv interview says Sky Germany for example quite
openly so it wasn't so much a leak as you know boldly boldly coming out and saying those things
and for me personally I find that hugely refreshing as a journalist for someone to sort of be honest
and speak their mind there is a bit too much for that media train element not not just inform
anyone but within elite sport often if someone is happy to speak their mind gosh how refreshing
and I think people I don't know how you find about other people watching surely find that more
refreshing there's less anodyne the answers Lando Norris is a very good example actually Verstappen
as well they're seem pretty honest and open in their answers and I think as a result of it
people like that more because they seem much more real but I don't know if you view it that way or
I definitely view it the different broadcasters and personalities bring out different sides to
them I think Lando pre world championship was extremely close with the Natalie Pinkham and
like a couple of members of the Sky team would probably get a little bit more out of it but
inside Red Bull during your season there was an enormous fallout with the likes of Sky Sports and
the fact that Max would sit in an interview and not even speak to them or say anything like
in the team what's that like to kind of witness and watch like can you physically see when you're
at a race or with media that drivers really do ignore some compared to others like Max his
interviews with you seemed extremely I mean he you know he or another driver could be in a huddle
there'll be someone they'll take Umbridge to a question there was a situation with Max this
season we saw with a British journalist we took Umbridge that and that's not uncommon I mean I've
had that experience maybe not in Formula One but other sports where people do you know it's hard
having a camera in your face or a microphone shoved in your face all the time you're not going to
always get it right and so you do get these clashes and often it's a misunderstanding no I think that
was a little bit of a misunderstanding and I'm sure they've they've spoken behind closed doors
in those situations and you clear it up but um yeah you're not going to like everyone are you
yeah some interviews interviews or like more than others so what's one of your highlight moments
inside this book like a proper wow moment I mean so just having experience of it like being able
to do this and to peek behind the curtain was amazing but it's like it's it's a slightly
obvious answer in a way but there's a I got the experience of being driven around Monaco on the
Monaco Grand Prix weekend in a Ford Mustang dark course by Max Verstappen we've got the
greatest Formula One driver driving you around the most iconic circuit which is his local
circuit because he lives there as well um for a couple of laps and that is a
you're once in a lifetime moment I mean truly truly special pinch yourself and I just think
I was I'd be a bit more sensible and ask some astute questions like you're asking me but I was
so busy thinking this how much fun this was and also trying to stay in the seat so he's driving
he looks excellent and someone said I just look like jelly man because by sort of head and body
and bouncing all over the place in the in the passenger seat alongside him what about the
season finale oh that was fantastic like to you know to have the dream of doing this project and
it to go down to the final race um you know in some ways it didn't matter whether they won or
lost but the fact they've managed to in for the for this story the fact they took it against all
the odds when he's at one point he was 104 points behind in the championship to then take it down
to that final lap of the final race and lose out by a couple of points was just brilliant
the whole buzz of being there of being on that grid for that final race when it still means
something of being within the team and the belief and then the elation of them winning
the race but the mix of the sadness that the you know of missing out on the title was just
amazing to be a part of and I think really summed up the roller coaster feel of the season with
the team that that final race. Red Bull are obviously huge winners but one thing that surprised
me in that season especially with Max is he was quite blasé about well we're not going to win
like McLaren have got it but we're not going to win and I was like well hang on a minute but you've
got a chance so I'm amazed that the lion in you isn't going there's a chance we can win.
Okay so he might he might yeah he might have been saying that but I think talking to other
members of the team until it was mathematically impossible they never gave up and he would have
been the same as well but you got to think he knew what 2021 was like having never won a title
before the pressure he was under and I think a little bit maybe he's deflecting that pressure on to
Hello McLaren, hello Lando Norris, Oscar Piastro this is yours to lose. He may well have believed
I maybe I'm giving him you know playing too too much into that but I like to think that he was
he was doing something there but I mean he did there was a point where he did believe he wasn't
going to win another race this season when he said that I think after Hungary it did really
feel like he believed it so if he doesn't think he's going to win another race then he doesn't
think he's going to win a title so I don't know. You know Christian Horner you've spoken to him
he's told you stories about ice cream yeah will that man end up back in Formula One in the next
five years? I really think he'll be back you know there's so many different stories of where he may
turn out staking Alpine you know buying you know being part of the the 12th P there was a chat about
Aston Martin there's just why would you not go for someone like that he feels like you know I know
he's rubbed some people's backs up the wrong way and you know he's a combative figure but
someone's had that level of success as a Formula One team businessman you know why would you not
tap into that it's proven because he left Red Bull it's hard to say on a high because it was negative
but with a lot of success of what he achieved to the team and then you watch you know people are
quick to forget in Formula One and you watch the pressure and stress that Adrian Nui is under right
now at Aston Martin you're only as good as your drivers and you're only as good as the car you're
given in the rest of the team coming together these guys how much do they care about their legacy
people like Horner and stuff are they thinking that stuff and they just work constantly well
not a lot I think I think they want to be remembered for what they did yeah for the impact and
and it's interesting you ask the legacy question because I feel like his legacies he feels probably
like his legacies not finished he's got unfinished business on the grid he'd like to come back and
prove it at another team whether that's building one up from scratch like they did with Red Bull
or what it is um I'd be absolutely astounded if he's not back and how much fun would it be if
he's going head to with with Red Bull again it's just this all part of the Formula One
knowing what you know about Adrian Nui do you think he's secretly relishing the prospect of turning
the Aston Martin car around or do you think he regrets his decision I don't think he regrets it
like people I remember talking to him he said the worst decision he ever made was joining Red Bull
was saying at the time because there was nothing they would jag you and that team couldn't win
any points you know anything at all and look what they became that that genius of his hasn't gone away
and he will be building up and he is building up the team around him and sure things haven't gone
well in this first you know season the regulations and there's been issues around the cars been
issues around the engine etc but yeah again a bit below with Horner I would have right off
knew it knew it your pair like I really feel they'll come good they're a big big big operation
of some great people yeah kind of watch this space on that one so Matt I can't believe the level
of insight we were able to get into a team that we only really see the media-facing side of but it
is different behind the scenes it's different watching people's faces eyes sighs everything
and you are privy to so much of that you're even sat next to Max Verstappen in the car so
not only congratulations on your success and the success of writing this book but congratulations
on getting the level of access and trust that you've built over the years well done thank you very much
About this episode
Matt Majendie describes spending a year embedded in Red Bull Racing during its most turbulent season, from factory and powertrain work to listening in on team radio. The hosts connect that access to the psychological side of F1: pressure, leadership dynamics, and how Max Verstappen’s intensity filters through engineers and pit wall. They also unpack Horner’s resilience, Red Bull’s “us against them” culture, and how sim racing and family influence shape Verstappen’s consistency—plus what it’s like to be close to the action.
Matt Majendie joins Road To Success to take us inside one of the most dramatic seasons in modern Formula 1.
After spending a year embedded inside Red Bull Racing, Matt reveals what life is really like behind the scenes of one of the most successful and controversial teams in F1 history. From Max Verstappen’s mindset and childhood, to Christian Horner’s pressure, Helmut Marko’s influence, Red Bull’s internal politics, Adrian Newey leaving, and the future of the team — this episode goes far beyond what fans see on race weekends.
Matt shares what he witnessed inside the garage, the ops room, the paddock, and the Red Bull factory, giving a rare insight into the people, pressure, and power struggles that shaped an unforgettable season.
If you’re an F1 fan, this is one you don’t want to miss.
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