“Electric” means the car is powered by batteries and electric motors instead of a gas engine. That can affect how the car is built and even how the doors and body are designed.
Term
a nondescript silhouette
A “silhouette” is the car’s overall shape—like the outline you’d see from a distance. “Nondescript” means it doesn’t look very unique or memorable.
Suicide doors are doors that open from a hinge position that’s different from normal cars—so they swing open in a more unusual way. People notice them because they look dramatic and can change how easy the car is to get in and out of.
They’re talking about suspension shock absorbers that can change how stiff or soft they feel. The idea is that the car can adjust its ride/handling very fast using magnets.
The Bentley Bentayga is a large, luxury SUV made by Bentley. It’s built for people who want a very comfortable, high-end ride, but still want the space of an SUV. It’s often mentioned because it’s one of Bentley’s main SUV models.
The Jaguar I-PACE is an electric SUV made by Jaguar. It uses electricity instead of gasoline, and it’s designed so the inside (the cabin) feels like a big part of the car. That’s why it can come up in conversations about what makes an electric SUV work well.
An electrification strategy is a plan to move away from gas engines and toward electric cars. Here, the speaker is saying that pushing that change too aggressively has caused problems for the broader car market.
An IPO is when a company “goes public” by selling shares to regular investors. The speaker is saying that this can change what the company prioritizes.
Concept
existential question
An “existential question” is basically a big, core question about what something is and what it should be doing. Here, it’s asking whether Ferrari really needed to make an electric car.
This means the car can have electric power at the wheels individually, so it can control how much drive each wheel gets. The speaker is saying that even if the tech is interesting, it doesn’t change what he personally wants from a Ferrari.
Person
Mark Nooson
Mark Nooson is a person involved in car design. The speaker is debating whether his design style fits what Ferrari fans expect from a Ferrari.
Product design is the process of planning and shaping how a product looks, feels, and functions for users—not just engineering it. Here, the host argues that Ferrari’s design choices were handed to people outside the usual car-design world, which changes the design approach.
Concept
consultancy role
A consultancy role means bringing in outside expertise to advise, rather than giving full control of the project. The host suggests Ferrari should have used the outsider designers to guide a car design team, instead of handing them full authority over the design outcome.
They’re talking about the Ferrari Luce and whether it really feels like a “real Ferrari.” The discussion is mostly about how it looks and how Ferrari is trying to attract a different kind of buyer.
“Enzo” refers to Enzo Ferrari, the founder of Ferrari. The quote is used to frame the discussion around Ferrari’s philosophy—especially the idea of looking forward—while debating whether the new direction of the brand makes sense.
Person
Sergio
“Sergio” here refers to someone from the Ferrari side of the family/leadership. They’re describing a discussion about how the car should look clearly like a Ferrari.
Maranello is where Ferrari is based in Italy. The comment is saying Ferrari’s own people there are thinking about how hard it is to switch to electric cars.
A sliding scale means the rules can ramp up over time. In this context, it suggests carmakers may be required to sell more electric cars as the targets get stricter.
Internal combustion is the traditional way cars make power by burning fuel in an engine. The discussion is basically: could Ferrari keep making only those cars, or did it have to go electric?
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If you want to understand the world today, you need to go back to the 90s.
From the internet boom to the rise of reality TV, the 1990s changed the way we live.
I'm Kathy Kanzora.
On my podcast History of the 90s, I go inside the stories, events and trends that defined a decade.
From the fall of communism to the rise of grunge. If it happened in the 90s,
you'll hear about it on History of the 90s, wherever you stream audio.
Right, it's an emergency podcast. Ferrari has just announced the luce. The electric Ferrari
had been waiting for it for many, many years. We knew it was coming. We knew it was going to be
controversial. Did we think it was going to look like the most beautiful sports car on the planet?
No, we didn't. Did we expect what we got? I'm not sure. I'll go over to Manish first.
He seems pretty vociferous on the subject.
I actually think this is exactly what I thought they would make. It didn't surprise me.
Literally one pixel. Genius. Well, you know, some people are. The aesthetics.
Sickle mouth. That's what Ian Fleming used to describe every shark is having. Is that good?
Is that bad? I think it has a bit of a nondescript silhouette. They're making a point that it's a
couple of inches lower than a porous sangue. How tough that is to do. The aerial view,
it's an iPhone with suicide doors, which is exactly what I think they wanted to create.
What I would say is that an iPhone, I think the first iPhone was launched on the 29th of June,
2007. So it's a product that's 19 years old and it's a product that has evolved more in the
software than in the hardware. In other words, I think that there's an aesthetic
that the Ferrari board wanted. I think they got exactly the aesthetic that they wanted.
That's why they picked Ives. That's why they picked Mark Newsom. Now, what I think that proves
is not that Mark and that Johnny aren't good designers, they're good designers. They designed
an iPhone car. I think it proves actually that the bosses, the people that commission this work,
are not visionaries because I don't think this car leads. I think it's aesthetics. I mean, you can
just go on to the internet now. And as a very good friend of my pithily kind of stated, he said,
you know, the internet is in sort of rare agreement. There is just no disagreement
on the internet about this car. His name is Pithily.
His name isn't Pithily, it's Charlie. But what I would say is, I mean, look, the harsh truth,
as far as I'm concerned, you know, I'm sure it's technically an extraordinary piece of work. It
should be. Ferrari gave us dampers with magnetic filings in that could literally change their
viscosity every thousandth of a second. You know, they've got a Formula 1 team. They should be at
the edge of technology. But I would just say, I think this car is out of date. I think this car
looks like an iPhone from 2007. The car is out of date already. And I'm sure Ferrari is smart,
they know exactly who's going to buy it. The price point is very high, isn't it? So $600,000 or
something. It's not for me. I'm 58. I've owned an iPhone since they came out. It looks like something,
you know, that I'm, I mean, it's just, it's very, it's very blunt. Oh, I would say just the other
thing about the interior. I think the interior is just, for me, trying a bit too hard. You know,
I remember that about the MacBook cases. MacBooks have not changed in 20 years. iPhones haven't
changed in 20 years. I watches haven't changed since they came out. There is an aesthetic,
there's a language there. And I think some very predictable managers got exactly what they wanted
in this car. I just think it's out of date. Neil? Yes, I'm actually here with the car.
I don't know if you can see it. It's the coupé version. Yes, that's it. Look at that. This won't
be released until next. This is the SSX version. Now, look, I've, I've, I don't like being negative,
as you all know, I like to be positive. So I've, I've made some notes, some positive notes, try to
get some, here we are. And I'm going to sit in the, I'm actually going to sit in the, the lucid,
or whatever it's called, and read them out to you. Okay, so let's look on the bright side,
as there are many positives. Anyone could be negative. It's so much easier.
Anyone that owns a LISO or an FF that are well down on their depreciation, they're going to
I may well be back to what I paid for mine. In fact, 296 owners are happy. SF90 owners,
for once, they are, they are happy. And actually, it's a genius move from Ferrari,
that the old dinosaurs, the old men shouting at the clouds like us, they can't see what,
this is what young people want. They don't want penis extensions. So I'm looking at the bright
side. Anyone could be no negative. It's easier. I think the owners of LISOs and FFs that are
well down on their depreciation, they're happy. 296 owners are happy. SF90 owners, they're finally
happy. And more importantly, I think this is a genius move from Ferrari. Us old dinosaurs,
these old men shouting at the clouds, we don't know what young people want. Young people don't
want penis extensions, pointy, wedgy, loud, purple things. That's so last millennia, they want to
look understated. Even if they are wealthy, wealthy people don't want to look wealthy anymore.
They don't need to show off. They've got inner confidence. Look at the brands, Versace, Dolce
Gabbana, Gucci, Philippe Plein, they're all not doing very well. They've lost their consumers. The
consumers have gone to understated chic. Hermes, the Rowe, Brunococcinelli, Zegna, Lora Piana.
This is a Lora Piana car. It's for people that don't want to show off. It's unlikely the Chinese
are going to copy it. Stop there. Happy you say all of those words because you can't say Bentayga.
Yeah. Well, as you know, I can't say Bentayga. I say Bentayaga. Look, I think this is going to
be a very rare car because not many people can order them. It's exactly what Ferrari wanted. This
sieves out the F90 owners because that's going to be a V12 manual designed by Lewis Hamilton.
So Ferrari are really going to know who their loyal customers are. And you're going to get
treble points for this car. Treble points. I think this is the smartest move actually from
Ferrari because they're designing something that deliberately, strategically won't sell.
And then the European Union will have to change course on this rather silly electrification
strategy. Mark Newsom is going to be promoted. It's going to get a double pay rise as the new
Chief Creative Officer of Honda. And he's going to have free sushi forever. Suddenly the purist
Sangui looks incredible. And you know what old Manzoni, who was under pressure because he couldn't
replicate what Pinaforena, he suddenly looks a genius. And most importantly, Jaguar. Jaguar
are going to be relieved. Jaguar are going to be so happy that their new car looks absolutely
incredible. So I think there's a lot of things to be positive about with this new Ferrari.
Very good. Let's go to Chris Cooper. Well, the first thing I thought this morning when I,
when last time I saw it, I had a little exchange with a couple of people at Jaguar overnight
this morning was now everyone knows what we feel like. And everyone realizes how hard this is.
And I think it does look good for Jaguar. The AMG thing that came out last week with this ridiculous
fake VA gear changes. That's just silly, I think. And this is what Jag had done. It's a bit more
sensible to say the least. The other thing he shows is just how hard it is to run a big car
company making expensive posh products in the Western world right now, because this is where you
end up. And it's a great little story. I can't believe for a second anybody at Ferrari thought
let's invest all this money in the cash and all the credibility and reputations of people involved
just to make a point. I think they're stuck. And I think that does show at some point something's
got to give. The car itself, I quite like the interior. When it first, they showed us the
interior first. Maybe that was a good idea. It was the best bit first. The outside, and I said
this in our chat this morning, the first time I saw it, I thought that's a Ferrari I-Pace.
And actually a couple of people from Jaguar sort of played that back to me this morning to say,
we think we've seen that somewhere before. So I mean, I'm not in the market for it. I can't
afford cars like that. I don't think it's a Ferrari. I don't think it's what I think a Ferrari is.
We've had a long, we had a beautiful day on Saturday talking about what a Jaguar is.
Next year when we do a great British Ferrari day, probably a bigger conversation about what's a
Ferrari and we'll come back and talk about it and we'll see how it's doing. So I mean, we wish them
luck. I want to be like Neil positive. And I'm sat here on a little bobbing little rowing boat
down here in Cornwall, a beautiful day. So it's hard not to be positive about life.
Let's hope they sell some because we love the other products they make. I mean,
want them to survive and it's Ferrari and you can't not have Ferrari.
I think what this does is two things. Neil's touched on one. It reminds us that the
electrification strategy defined by some politicians has caused a catastrophe that
reaches the very bottom of the car market. And now as we've seen the very top of the car market,
no one's agreed from it. The good thing is, IPOs, when you send a company public
and suddenly the reason for that car company's existence is not to carry on being what it is,
to be the brand it is, but to give maximum value to shareholders, you send yourself on a trajectory
that you could never recover from really. So I think that you have to ask the existential question
which is, did Ferrari need to make an electric car? I'm not sure it did. I'm not sure it did.
I mean, what value does it add really? Everyone knows what they want from a Ferrari.
I think it was a bit of a flex. I think they got caught up in the zeitgeist of six years ago
when everyone said we have to make electric cars. I think if you asked them now whether they wish
they'd not done it, they'd probably say, yes, we wish we'd not done it. 100%. And I think I can
tell you, I've got a little bit of intel on it from the inside. We're all part of an industry.
As a journalist, I can tell you you had to meet certain criteria to be invited for that unveiling.
I'm proud to say I didn't meet them. I was telephoned and asked how positive I was about
electric cars. And I said, not very. And the invite was not forthcoming. So the level, I think,
judge a car company's confidence by the way it manages car launches. First time I drove a Porsche
at 918, it was finished. It was left in a garage with a key. There was no one there with it. They
go off. They knew they'd made something brilliant. Same with great cars. If you have to show the
interior, then the exterior, then you've got to do seven bleed-out launches. You know you're
dealing with a company that's really having to manage things. As a consumer, I have no
interest in it whatsoever. I don't care about its bloody electric motors in each wheel. I just don't
care because that's not a car for me. That doesn't mean it's not interesting. I think it's a very
interesting car. I think commercially it will be a success. I really do. They'll sell them all. Of
course they will. They'll sell every single one. And it'll add to this to the game that Ferrari
plays. If you want the new SP4, whatever it's going to be, you're going to have to buy one of
them. I respect the hustle. If you had a little business that could control its consumers the
way Ferrari does, you'd play fast and lose with it as well. Of course you would. What do I think
of the styling? Don't ask me. I'm wearing a black t-shirt and some shorts that have got
docks and clouds on them. So I don't really understand aesthetics. It certainly doesn't
leap out at me. I have no idea why you needed to make something look like an iPace that had had a
430 crash into the back of it. It looks like a 360 crash into the back of it, doesn't it?
What I can say... I think Manish is right. It does look like a Mark Nooson car. Mark
Nooson, in many respects, is a genius. The big debate is, does Mark Nooson understand Ferrari?
Maybe. Maybe the future consumer wants it to look like this. It's a good point, but I would say this.
If I was Mr Manzoni today, I would be quietly sitting there saying, well, there is a
special place in this world for real car designers. You have to respect product design,
and I think the fact that they've gone to people that don't normally do cars could have been
refreshing, but maybe it should have been a consultancy role to interpret and encourage
a car design team, because they've given them the keys to the whole building,
and what they've come up with. If you bought that, would you park it outside your mate's house
and go, look, I bought my new Ferrari? I don't think you would. I think I've got a really simple
analogy that comes from my world. Loads of people can write movies. There's a structure to writing
films. It doesn't matter whether it's an action film, a drama, or a romantic comedy,
but each discipline is very, very different. I'll give you a very simple example. I think
people who write romantic comedies tend to be rubbish at dramas, and the reason why
is not because they can't be dramatic. It's how they reflexively end a scene. They like to end
scenes with a laugh, and what you've sort of got here is actually Mark is phenomenally...
He has so much insight into cars. He was a big collector, big Ferrari collector. He then went
on to the love of the old, I think, the very old alphas. This is a guy who really gets old
lunches. He really gets cars, but I think it is like getting a rom-com writer, but I think that
the rom-com writer was exactly what the Ferrari management wanted. I think the lack of imagination
comes not from Mark, not from Johnny Ives. It comes from the people who commissioned them,
and as Vina said, this car's got more patents than any other Ferrari. Remember what Luca's great
line was? You know, Enzo would always say, of course, look forward, but that big line he says,
I sat down once with Sergio and we said, this car, whether you see it in New York, Cape Town,
Copenhagen, whatever, you know it's a Ferrari. And I challenge you, if you take those,
this would be the first Ferrari I would say, make sure you've got the shields on the side,
because if you don't have the shields on the side, I'm not sure that you know it's a Ferrari.
I think there could be a thing where they are attracting a new audience
that find current Ferraris or V12 Ferraris or whatever, a bit too flashy, ostentatious.
As I mentioned, and I was tongue in cheek obviously, but the most successful fashion brands
at the moment are basically very understated. So maybe they've worked out that there's a whole
different consumer out there they're not talking to. That could be the case.
It's not a car aimed at any of us, which does make it difficult to assess. So you have to
change your point of reference, imagine you're someone else, but it's a big reach for me,
this one, even if I put my testing hat on, you look at the specifications, you know,
in a straight line, it's slower than the fastest Chinese stuff. So the dynamic arguments become
very difficult. Yes, it's got these incredibly clever, multi-matic dampers. Yes, I don't doubt
it will do things other EVs can't do. But I'm not sure that's enough. You know, I'm not sure that's
enough. And the one thing it had, the one thing that you thought the Friar would have in his pocket
was it would understand beauty, how to present something aesthetically in a
different way. And it looks like it wasn't designed by Ferrari. I think that's right.
I think that was the intention, but maybe that was the most misguided bit. They haven't realized
that their secret source was that Italian beauty. Can I just say one last thing?
We've said this all the way through the last two years. Never has there been such an enormous and
concerted regulatory pressure group government effort to change consumer behavior, as there has
been to say the electric car is the only part of our future. And the reveal of this car shows how
challenging that is if you're a car maker. I would bet all the money in the world, and Chris
said the same thing. There are people in Maronello saying, if somebody had turned to them a year ago
and said, haha, good news, it's all off, they'd have heaved a big sigh of relief. They wouldn't have
chosen, per se, to make an electric car because it's so hard. Is there a brand other than Ferrari,
where it would be harder to sell an electric car? I mean, you've got to spend an awful lot of money
to find out you knew the answer all along. Can I just ask a question, though? Was this mandated?
Because I don't have an answer to that. Were they mandated to produce a certain percentage of cars
that are electric? I don't have the regulations to hand on this little rowing boat.
No, I'm just saying, but if it's mandated, sure. If it's mandated, fair enough.
Yeah, so my gut feel is that, and my understanding is that all manufacturers are making more than
a thousand cars a year, whatever the relatively small number is, it's definitely Ferrari,
have got to do something and there's like a sliding scale. So having nothing other than internal
combustion or little hybrids probably was never an option for them.
I mean, you have to admire it, don't you? You have to admire it.
Choice comments that I've seen on the internet so far.
They are these. So a lot of Ferrari i-PACE, a lot of other. Another one is it's the
fear multiplier mark two. I've not seen that. There's a bit of multiplier in there, isn't there?
A lot. I'm not a multiplier alone. But my favorite one is this.
It just inverts a car that's powered by Enzo Ferrari spinning in his grave.
Look, I think maybe a bunch of old commudians enjoying the sunshine at the end of their middle
age years aren't the ones to judge this. That's fair enough, but I still think
I'm still slightly gobsmacked because it just, I don't quite get it. And I think the protectionism
around his launch sadly suggests that there is insecurity there. But isn't it great?
He gives us stuff to talk about the co-industry. It does, it does.
And we're all lucky. Go and enjoy the sunshine and thank you for listening to the 21 minutes
of utter rot. Bye-bye, love you all.
About this episode
Ferrari’s newly announced electric Luce sparks a wide-ranging debate: the hosts weigh its controversial styling (including “suicide doors” and comparisons to an iPhone and even a Ferrari I-Pace), question whether it feels truly Ferrari, and argue that clever EV hardware can’t replace brand identity. They also discuss whether electrification is driven by regulation and incentives rather than customer desire, and they challenge the car’s relevance, pricing, and exclusivity.
