The New Season Of Cars, Young & Rich, Obsession Paralysis | Episode 1,022
Everyday Driver Car Debate
The New Season Of Cars, Young & Rich, Obsession Paralysis | Episode 1,022
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103:01
Car
Honda Prelude
Term
belt line
The belt line is the line on the side of a car that goes around the doors. It helps shape how the car looks and can make it appear more sporty or elegant.
Car
Honda Civic
The Honda Civic is a small car that many people drive. It's known for being dependable and good on gas. There are different versions of it, like two-door and four-door models.
Concept
coke bottle shape
The 'coke bottle shape' is a way to describe a car's design that looks curvy and smooth, similar to a Coke bottle. It makes the car look stylish and sporty.
Car
Chevrolet Corvette
The C3 Corvette is a famous sports car made by Chevrolet from the late 1960s to early 1980s. It has a unique look and is known for being fast and fun to drive.
Term
inflation
Inflation means that prices go up over time, so a dollar today doesn't buy as much as it did in the past. When we talk about adjusting for inflation, we're figuring out how much something would cost today compared to years ago.
Term
MSRP
MSRP is the price that the car company suggests you should pay for a new car. It's a starting point for negotiations when buying a car.
Car
Honda That Honda
Car
Toyota Prius
The Toyota Prius is a popular car that uses both gas and electricity to run, making it more fuel-efficient. It's one of the first cars to be widely recognized as a hybrid vehicle.
Term
hybrid
A hybrid car uses both a gas engine and an electric motor to help it run. This makes it more fuel-efficient and better for the environment than cars that only use gas.
Car
Tesla Model 3
The Model 3 is a car made by Tesla that runs only on electricity. It’s known for being fast, having a long driving range, and lots of cool technology.
Car
Porsche Cayenne
The Porsche Cayenne EV is a new electric SUV from Porsche, which means it runs on electricity instead of gasoline, making it more environmentally friendly.
Term
internal combustion engine
An internal combustion engine is a kind of engine that makes power by burning fuel inside it. Most cars use this type of engine, but electric cars use a different kind.
Term
LED lighting
LED lighting is a type of car light that uses special technology to shine brighter and last longer than regular lights. They help you see better at night and use less energy.
Car
Tesla Model Y
Car
Porsche Macan
The Porsche Macan is a small SUV made by Porsche. It's designed to be fun to drive while also being useful for everyday tasks like carrying passengers and cargo.
Car
Porsche Panamera
The Porsche Panamera is a luxury car that looks like a sports car but has four doors. Its design has changed over the years, and opinions about it have varied.
Concept
gas engine
A gas engine is a type of engine that uses gasoline to run. Some car companies are trying to make cars that use gas and electric power.
Car
BMW iX3
The BMW iX3 is a fully electric SUV made by BMW, designed to be eco-friendly and efficient.
Car
Lucid Gravity
Term
Autobahn
The Autobahn is a type of highway in Germany where you can drive really fast, sometimes without any speed limits. It's a place where many people test the speed of their cars.
Term
aerodynamics
Aerodynamics is about how air flows around cars. Good aerodynamics helps cars go faster and stay stable by reducing wind resistance.
Car
Porsche 911 GT3
The Porsche 911 GT3 RS is a special version of the Porsche 911 made for racing. It has features that help it go faster and handle better on the track.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. More horsepower usually means the car can go faster and accelerate quicker.
Term
torque
Torque is a measure of how strong an engine is when it starts moving. More torque means the car can pull heavier loads or accelerate faster from a stop.
Term
launch control
Launch control is a system that helps cars start moving quickly from a stop. It makes sure the car uses its power in the best way to go fast right away.
Car
Toyota Sienna
Car
Jeep Recon
The Jeep Recon is a new electric SUV from Jeep. It's designed to be tough like other Jeep vehicles but runs on electricity instead of gasoline.
Car
Hummer Ev Suv
Brand
Stellantis
Stellantis is a big car company that owns several brands like Jeep and Dodge. They make a variety of vehicles, including electric ones.
Car
Jeep Wrangler
The Jeep Wrangler is a tough vehicle designed for off-road driving. It's famous for having no doors and a removable roof, which lets you enjoy the outdoors while driving.
Car
Toyota Land Cruiser
The Toyota Land Cruiser is a big, tough SUV that can handle rough roads and is very reliable. People often use it for adventures or off-roading.
Car
Toyota 4Runner
The Toyota 4Runner is a strong SUV that people use for adventures and driving on rough roads. It's built to handle tough conditions.
Car
Lexus Gx
The Lexus GX is a luxury SUV that can handle rough roads and off-road driving. It's designed for comfort and has a strong build to tackle tough environments.
Car
Ford Raptor
The Ford Raptor is a special version of the Ford F-150 truck that is designed for off-road driving and has a lot of power, making it very exciting to drive.
Car
Toyota Mirai
Car
Dodge Hellcat
The Dodge Hellcat is a powerful version of the Dodge Challenger and Charger cars. It has a really strong engine that makes it faster than regular versions of these cars.
Car
Genesis Magma GT
The Genesis Magma GT is a new car model that was shown for the first time at an event in France. It's a concept car, which means it's a prototype that shows what the brand might produce in the future.
Car
Genesis G90
The Genesis G90 is a large, luxury car made by Genesis, which is part of Hyundai. It's known for being very comfortable and packed with high-end features, similar to cars from brands like BMW and Mercedes-Benz.
Car
Hyundai Genesis
Car
Lotus Amira
Car
Porsche Cayman
Car
Mclaren Artura
Car
Ford Mustang GTD
Car
Maserati MC20
Car
Genesis GV60
Car
Genesis G70
Car
BMW E63
Car
Audi Rs6 Audi
Car
Land Defenders
Car
Genesis GV70
Car
Ford Edge
Car
Hyundai Palisade
Car
Toyota Corolla
Car
Ford Fiesta ST
Car
BMW 550S
Car
Dodge Magnum
Car
Rivian R1S
Car
Rivian R1T
Car
Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale
Car
Cadillac Seville
Car
Honda Hrv
Car
Porsche 928
Car
BMW M2
Car
Audi A8 Audi
Car
BMW Series Bmw
Car
Audi A7
Car
Kia Stinger
Car
Toyota Rav4S
Car
Toyota Crown
Car
Lotus Esprit
Car
Porsche Turbo Ls
Car
Delorean DMC-12
LIVE
Get your mother loving ears on because your big-time radio DJs got news.
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Hi, everybody.
We're back.
It's Tuesday again.
We've lumped it all into news.
It's not even a topic Tuesday.
We went to the LA Auto Show.
And while we're at the Auto Show, other news was happening.
Other reveals were happening elsewhere in the world.
It's like concepts.
It's a concept.
It's production.
It's all in one big mixing bowl of this huge thing.
New cars.
Totally.
New cars.
Here's the thing.
Cars we hope are coming.
Cars we think are coming.
Cars that are actually here.
Cars that are supposed to be coming.
But we're not sure if they are anymore.
There's so much to talk about here.
We're just going to dive in with that.
We do have two really cool car debates.
We've got some car conclusions.
You guys have absolutely buried us in questions.
Which is wonderful.
Yeah, thank you for that.
So we should just dive right into news.
Should we start with the prelude?
Yeah, we should.
Thank you to Honda for flying us to the LA Auto Show for a press reveal
of something totally different we cannot talk about at this point.
But also to see the prelude and go to the Auto Show.
Go to photos of the new prelude that we saw first time.
There we are actually in person.
Which was very interesting to walk around the actual production version
and to see it in person.
Well, I said to you that I found some creases and some character lines
that I had not seen in photos and are still not visible in these photos.
The blue is excellent but the lighting and the color actually kind of hide
some of the excellent creases on this car.
There's one on the rear here that you might be able to see.
Pointing that out.
Just under the belt line here that makes a nice S reflection
that makes that rear fender swell out a little bit.
It doesn't make it look like a rear wheel drive car,
but it makes it have a presence in the rear.
It doesn't just look like a front wheel drive,
a two door front wheel drive Civic.
It's got swells in both the wheel wells more than you think in photos.
When you actually look at it from the direct front or direct back,
it has that, I mean, I'm not this much,
but it has that kind of traditional coke bottle shape that was really cool
that was most exaggerated in like the C3 Corvette.
It has that little bit of fender swells front and rear
that you don't expect in a car like this.
That is there when it's there in person.
I thought in person, it is better.
It looks cool.
It really is. Some nice details.
It has that dark kind of concept look to it,
where the front end of a dart is the heaviest part.
So you're throwing the dart and that is where the weight and direction of the car is.
So it actually kind of harkens back to that for me,
just kind of pulls that concept out for me.
But the biggest thing that we need to discuss is the price has now been announced for the prelude,
and it is almost $2,000 less than the 2001 model when adjusted for inflation.
How about that spin, huh?
Except...
So wait, what were following this?
We'll keep pulling that thread.
The 2001 Honda prelude was $23,600,
which I know many of you were saying that's what the new prelude should cost.
But if you adjust that, well, let's follow the math.
You adjust that prelude for inflation,
that makes it about $43,000.
So guess how much the new prelude is going to cost?
Now, it only comes in one trim.
It's not like you can now add on to it,
but it's going to be about $43,000, almost $44,000.
Yeah.
You might think that's turn off initially.
But what I do like is with this S plus shift
and the amount of tech that Honda has put into this,
this is not just a commuter two-door.
This feels a little bit like a bit of technological innovation
that Honda is wanting their customers to experience and pay for.
We'll see.
I mean, the thing you have to keep in mind is nobody's in the US.
No US journalists have driven this yet.
It's on sale in Japan.
It's been reviewed in the UK.
Yeah.
But no US journalists have driven it yet.
That's going to happen early next year.
We're working to get one as well.
We're very excited to actually have one on camera.
My shoe splits here on price.
Okay?
Because in a vacuum, what this car is,
what it offers,
and what that should probably cost in today's dollars.
It feels pretty close to where it should be.
Where it gets hard is now comparing
what that amount of dollars gets you elsewhere.
And I'm going to give you two reference points.
The Civic Type R.
Wow.
The Civic Type R.
Yeah.
It's three grand more than this.
Okay.
Now, that's not the same kind of car.
No.
You're not going to buy the Civic Type R as your commuter.
You would buy the Prelude as a commuter.
Yeah, for sure.
So then let's go commuter.
Hybrid.
Well, the loaded.
Like, you cannot ask for more throw.
You cannot throw more at it.
Prius.
I went and built one.
Oh, you did.
All-wheel drive.
Everything you can ask for.
I didn't do the plug-in hybrid because this is a normal hybrid.
Right.
So I just did hybrid hybrid.
That's quite an exercise.
All-wheel drive.
Everything you can throw at it.
Extra nice paint.
The floor mats.
I threw it all at it.
Wow.
It was three grand less than this.
That is a loaded all-wheel drive.
Prius, which is a commuter with a good look.
Interesting.
So this is living in that land between those two reference points.
And I'm very curious for how this drives.
Because I will say this.
We haven't driven it.
But Honda was nice enough to allow us to sit in it.
Yes.
And I will say, the seating position, the ergonomics,
the seat itself, the field of the wheel,
just the driver interaction on first sitting was excellent.
Excellent.
I agree.
So that was a surprise.
I agree.
I thought it was wonderful to be in as a driver.
So how does this drive?
I'm putting this in the I'm excited
and I just don't know Colin.
It's interesting because you can't compare this to any EV
that is currently on the market.
But EVs are very expensive.
Yeah.
And more so these days without that lovely tax credits.
True.
But people don't seem to bulk at the prices of EVs.
They don't seem to, oh, that's just too expensive.
If you want the tech, you're going to go pay for the tech.
You're just fine.
Sure.
Yeah.
And so yeah, on one hand, the prelude was always viewed as the cheaper fun car.
That perception has now kind of gone away.
And so I'm attacking Honda on one hand
but I'm defending them on the other.
I'm kind of both with this pricing.
It does come down to a drive because I know we're going to experience the tech.
And one way, say, is this dollar amount?
Does that equate to this good of a driving experience?
Am I willing to pay that amount of money for whatever driving experience we discover?
Well, it's going to put a price tag on it
and that's how people will have to justify this or not.
And it's going to have to come down to.
I think the only buyer for this is fun commuter.
Yeah.
I think that's the buyer.
But that's a lot of buyers.
Well, but I don't know.
I don't see that's the thing I don't know.
Because if you really want a fun commuter,
then you probably just take the head and you get the Civic Type R
or something that's manual and you just go,
I know I'm commuting, but I want to have fun.
If you want to commute and you want to get gas mileage,
then you buy a Prius, or frankly within a few thousand dollars of this,
you buy a Model 3.
If you're commuting and that's the whole purpose.
I suppose.
So this is living in a weird place that I genuinely hope there's a market for it.
But what does it drive like?
And what could you buy for the same money?
This becomes a quagmire quick.
I'm going to make it even more niche.
Okay.
It's a fun commuter for the person that doesn't want to be mistaken for an Uber or lift driver.
Yes.
Okay.
So I'm not your Uber driver.
That is a fair point.
But I'm fun commuting.
Yeah.
I'm not fun commuting.
Plus Uber.
You won't see any cabs that happen to be prelude.
Right.
You won't see any prelude running around with the Uber light in the corner.
Exactly.
That's a very good point.
Yeah, you're right.
That is very good.
Maybe that makes it even more niche.
I love it.
That's good.
Moving on to more news that we have just seen.
And that is the Porsche Cayenne EV that has just been announced.
There it is.
There it is.
That's what it looks like, everybody.
The wheelbase is 13 centimeters longer than the regular Cayenne.
Even though we will still get regular internal combustion engine Cayenne.
But if I covered up the badge on this Cayenne, you might suspect it's a Porsche simply because of the signature lighting, the LED lighting and the headlights.
It's maybe that might be the giveaway.
The shape may be because they've introduced it on the Tykon and starting to introduce it on products throughout the Macon.
But could you tell me that I know exactly what that is?
It's a Porsche.
Could you say that?
Could you say this?
Honestly, I hate to say this.
But with the photo you have up right now, and I realize there's a ton of photos.
And we haven't seen it in person.
I get all that.
But the photo you have up right now, this could be three or four Chinese models.
It could be a refresh of the model Y.
Yeah.
It doesn't necessarily say Porsche.
And I said it when the EV Macon came out, and the front end just looks weird.
That has transferred right over here to the Cayenne.
The front end just looks weird.
And I think the Cayenne is getting...
It's doing the Panamera arc.
Started off not attractive.
Got really attractive in the middle and now is arcing the other way.
I don't think this is an attractive design.
But it is...
Well, we already were making this.
So we got to land the plane.
Because Porsche, as we all know, as we've discussed a lot, is restructuring to make everything have a gas engine to not be only EV.
But this has been in the works for a while.
So this still needed to come to fruition.
And here it is.
And all of the press...
I'm sure you've all seen it.
All of the press is most powerful Porsche ever.
Look at how fast this is in a straight line.
Aren't we over it?
Absolutely.
Still regarding styling.
Here is something that looks better than the new Cayenne.
Oh, that's interesting.
You cannot argue that the Noia Class BMWs, they...
Well, because those aren't EVs.
Well, here's the IX3.
It's an EV platform which also makes it...
Those rockers are always too low.
The Macon does it.
The Audi's do it.
Yeah, they have Cayenne does it.
This does it.
They're low rockers.
They're covering up the battery, that in-floor battery.
And aerodynamics.
Aerodynamics, certainly.
But here is one that looks far more succinct.
BMW has pulled up out of their nose dive.
I want to actually compliment on them on the styling
because it's no longer fussy to my eye.
It's coherent.
There's one, two, three reads.
There's some nice slabs.
There's a great looking theme.
And then we get down to some details.
Yeah.
The beaver teeth have gone away.
That's key.
It's back to classic.
It's instantly BMW.
It's classic.
It's expensive looking.
It's good looking.
I love the Noia class styling.
I think it's excellent.
But in comparison to the Cayenne, what is that?
It almost looks like a lucid gravity.
It almost looks mini-van.
It does.
It does.
It looks quite a bit like a lucid gravity,
which you identified because there were a lot of them
at both SEMA and also at the LA Auto Show.
That really is a mini-van.
Everybody's very excited about it,
but it's a mini-van without mini-van doors.
That's the shape of it.
100%.
So, you see this rocker here,
and then there's a bit of just fussyness
throughout the body side, the lower door.
There's just a lot of details that just kind of,
it feels fussy.
There's not a strong theme through here.
The Cayenne was always introduced from the very beginning
as go 100 miles an hour in the Autobahn,
go 100 miles an hour over the desert.
It can go off-road.
It can do rock crawling.
It can do all of these things.
And I know this one still can.
It just doesn't feel like it.
It doesn't look like it.
It doesn't have that perception of
I can do everything.
I can be a sports car.
I can go off-road.
I can go on dunes.
I can do it all.
And that was the beauty of Porsche introducing the Cayenne.
True.
Because they were so late to the SUV game.
Yeah.
Porsche isn't also rent.
No, they've reinvented the segment.
And now, even though with being an EV and Cayenne's can,
they certainly can.
Even more capable.
It just doesn't have that perception anymore.
It just feels like another SUV
for people to cruise around town in.
Well, it feels like another super powerful electric SUV
of which we already have too many.
That sounds crazy, but we do.
It can go super fast in a straight line
because it weighs too much but has crazy electric power.
And I don't know how much of a selling point that is.
Speaking of crazy electric power,
they are still hanging on to that.
Turbo is the highest EV designation
ruined it for me.
You're going to talk about the wings.
Talk about the wings.
Active arrow blades in the rear, everyone.
And if Porsche has determined, which I'm sure they have,
aerodynamics is actually everything.
It is what separates the GT3RS from the regular old GT3.
You're right.
It's a significant difference.
Aerodynamics is every sure.
Yeah, yeah.
So they have determined the active arrow blades
on the rear haunches that rear three-quarter in the bumpers.
They extend at speed.
There's aerodynamics all over this car
and I know that they have studied the arrow on this car in court.
Optimize it and made it efficient.
And so they're really detaching the airflow.
That's what these are doing.
They extend at speed.
They're attaching the airflow for higher speed.
Of course.
There are little vertical blades that extend out
behind the rear wheels toward the back bumper.
They extend that when you put it in the,
I want to go super fast mode.
And there's already people talking about,
oh, this is an under 10-second quarter mile.
And I'm going, why?
And who cares?
But that's how you get those kind of speeds.
Yeah.
This is the fussy details under the lights here.
I know this is weird.
This feels to me.
And I'm not exactly saying the same.
But in the same category,
this feels like Porsche's cyber truck.
My point here being,
not because I'm saying that the styling is that weird.
I'm just saying because there is excellent engineering
executed well here.
True.
On a vehicle I don't know why we need.
That's why I think it is similar to Porsche's cyber truck.
That's interesting.
The normal Cayenne Electric has 402 horsepower
during normal driving,
435 horsepower,
615 pound feet of torque with launch control.
Then the turbo goes to 844 horsepower
during regular mode,
a thousand 17 horsepower
for 10 seconds when you use the push to pass mode
and the full 1139 horsepower
and 1,106 pound feet of torque
when you use launch control.
Almost 1,140 horsepower
with launch control.
So you can...
No, over 1,000 pound feet of torque.
Hurt all the people in the car.
Yes.
Tell them you can hurt their necks.
Everybody put your head back.
Yes.
And we needed more...
Did it drive better?
Do we have more range?
Well, speaking of range.
This can do the 400 kilowatt charging,
even though in North America,
I don't know that there's too many 400 kilowatt
chargers capable,
but there's...
There's only 350s.
There's for sure.
You're certainly fast charging.
But what they have introduced
and is most fascinating is the induction charging
with a pad
that you place on your garage floor.
Oh, here's another shot of the cayenne.
Here is that pad
and you place that
and there's 12 to 18 centimeters of air gap
so you get 11 kilowatts per hour,
up to 11 charging.
Okay.
Of wireless induction charging,
you roll over the pad.
They've cracked it.
Sensors impressive.
Just behind the front axle.
Yeah.
And there's good news.
There's a shutoff feature
if your doggy or your cat
happens to find a warm spot
and crawl under the car,
there is the motion sensor under the car
so it will shut off
so it doesn't cause any
unwanted problems.
Somewhere an engineer knows exactly
what that would do to your driver cat.
They know exactly what it would do.
Yeah.
And so they have created
this shutoff feature
which is fascinating.
And I don't know
that plugging it in was a big hassle.
I don't think it was.
But okay.
All right.
Here we are.
There we go.
So you can just park it at night.
No problem.
It's very impressive that they cracked this.
This has been talked about
by everybody.
From Tesla to everybody else,
you can think of the inductive charging thing
has been talked about.
Ever since EVs came to market
in any kind of mass way.
So it's cool that they have it
and I'm sure to work.
I'm again,
I don't think it's a big hassle to go
to junk and plug it in.
But whatever.
Just like the
foreign object detection.
So Muffy doesn't get fried.
Yeah.
Which it crawls under the car
and turns to toast.
Wow.
That sounds like something
out of a vacation movie.
But anyway, we're moving on.
Yeah.
Experience the sequel.
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We were at the LA
out of show as you know
and we came across
the Jeep Recon
another EV SUV
newly introduced
by Stellantis that I think
would have been amazing
if it were introduced
about three years ago.
Well, that's a thing.
This is the other one
I was teasing earlier
when I talked about the
Cayenne is out
and they feel like they
have to land the plane.
This feels exactly like that.
This feels like
okay, we're already
so far along,
we got to finish it now.
Yes.
Because with the market
perception turning
certainly here in the US,
let's be honest.
Look,
jeeps sell mostly
in the US.
Even if the rest of the
globe stays on their
current trajectory
for EV mandates,
and there's a lot of
discussion going on
in the EU right now
about whether or not
they're going to even try.
And a lot of the
German automakers are going
we shouldn't do this.
Okay?
So that's literally
this week's news.
But even if the EU
goes forward,
this is a brand that sells
predominantly
their off-roaders
in the US.
And in the US,
we've seen that the tide
turned
and all the manufacturers
are scrambling to
not sell an EV
of what they've made.
But here comes
of the spoke chassis,
EV essentially
an alt to the
Wrangler
and full EV.
And they have leaned
so far into the Wrangler
ethos.
We've got no doors,
no roof,
no back-quarter panel windows.
Everything comes off
so you can do EV
off-roading
with all the body panels
off.
Again, I'm stuck
with the engineering
versus the reality here.
Impressive.
Very cool.
I love all the stuff
that they did to be able
to take all these body parts
off.
This looks pretty cool.
I think it's executed well.
Is it going to get bought?
That's the big question mark
with 650 horsepower,
620 pound feet of torque.
They've introduced this
in the Moab trim level
for a mere $65,000.
That seems expensive.
We know it can do great
off-road things
and we've been to Moab plenty.
We've kind of been
actually talking
about all the businesses there
that do the Jeep rental
or the Land Cruiser rental thing,
or they rent all the
side-by-side businesses.
They could rent these
or buy a bunch of these
and have a rental business
and crawling around in these.
But I mean, you know
it's going to be incredibly capable.
I'm sure it'll be very capable.
Yeah.
I'm sure it'll be great.
It'll be an EV Wrangler.
If you haven't been to Moab
and you taught,
it's a phenomenal off-road place
and I know many of you've heard of it
as a great off-road place.
You just did your four-runner piece
and we did a little bit of off-road in there.
Yeah.
I tested the Rubikayan
and terrified myself
with the Rubikayan there.
You were driving the Lexus GX.
We've been out there quite a few times.
It's very cool.
It's not that far from us.
But the thing you have to understand
about Moab,
the place that you're seeing
all of the Super Rock crawling going on.
That's not even five minutes
from the town of Moab
where you rent the Jeep.
It's not like you left Moab
in an hour later.
No, it's less than five minutes away.
Right there.
So this kind of EV architecture
with this kind of range.
Everything you're going to do with it in a day
is well within the range of this vehicle.
That's right.
Again, I think it is a whole rental fleet
of recon but outside of that
are people going to buy this
and I just don't know
because as we've seen
when we have driven many Jeep's
and reviewed many Jeep's
the ones that people get excited about
are the 392 V8 Wrangler.
That's the one people are excited about.
Yep.
The Raptors with the stupid power.
Yep.
The most, most souped up version
of the G-Wagon
with all of the suspension
that can, these are the ones
that people get excited about.
Yeah. Yeah.
So where is this?
I, hmm, I struggle
because just like that cayenne,
I know the engineering is here.
This is interesting
and they've succeeded
for what market?
You know, this made me think
with all of these concepts
and some production cars
that we've seen come out.
I'm wondering if
manufacturers redefining their brand
and what their offering is
wonder if the cars they produce,
cars and trucks, whatever
are going to be so more regional
than ever before.
Regional two countries,
regional two states.
I mean, this is the Moab edition.
Yeah.
To do with the doors off
and go off-roading.
All right.
Yeah.
Name me another state.
Maybe the Colorado, maybe.
Colorado.
Colorado stuff.
There's some Texas stuff.
Okay.
Maybe Arizona.
Is it all states, though?
Probably not.
No, no, no.
It's not.
There's some California stuff.
It's a western half
of the U.S.,
kind of near the Rockies.
I see where you're going.
You can buy a car,
you can drive it
and take it anywhere.
Yeah.
But I'm wondering
if car companies start
to do like a hyper-regional,
these cars are only sold
in these states
or these countries.
Well, and that's it.
I mean, it does exist now.
Yeah.
I'm going to say that
because of business.
That does exist.
Well, but there's one
that reinforces your point.
World car.
We want to build a world car
like the camera is great
for every market.
Everybody could have a camera.
Well, maybe it doesn't make sense anymore.
Maybe with the tech
and maybe with the appeal.
Wow.
Car companies start to do this.
Maybe it's like,
well, we sell it in Texas,
Colorado, Utah, and Arizona.
And some in California.
That's already happened.
I mean, like the EV version
of the Subaru cross track
is not sold everywhere.
Yeah, true.
The Mirai, the hydrogen version.
Oh, that's a great point.
That sells in California only.
That's true.
That's a great point.
So the reality is this
on some level already exists.
Yeah.
So is this going to become
more common?
No, I think it reinforces
your point.
Because the problem is,
it only exists right now
with very niche models.
I was just thinking about it bright.
No, niche.
But I think you're suggesting
that there is precedent
that might become
this is only sold in these places.
I think that's very possible.
I mean, there was an article
recently, and I don't have it
up right now.
But there's an article recently
where the revised
Hellcat motor can be sold
in like 10 states
and a few months ago it was seven.
Right.
Yeah.
Because of whatever,
which means one of them
is not California.
I'm going to your right now.
So yeah, this is interesting.
And how do car makers
navigate that?
They'll scrape your IP
and if whatever your state
you're in,
they won't even allow that
car to appear on their website
for sale.
Sure.
I mean, that's the easy part.
I'm just thinking
from a standpoint of
them making money
enough to make all these models.
How's that going to work?
Maybe that's the way
to make money, though.
Yeah, I'm speculating.
Yeah, I'm speculating.
I'm speculating.
I'm speculating.
Moving on to the
Genesis Magma,
the world premiere happened
at Circuit Paul Record in France.
This thing is superb.
It's spectacular.
It is the Magma GT concept,
which Genesis says
is a guide
for their future performance
lineup as they explore GT
class racing.
That is great news.
We don't know
too many details about it.
There wasn't much
released except for them to say
it is their halo model
being a mid-engine
high-performance halo car.
Look at this thing.
It looks amazing.
I want to drive it
right now.
Well, and the rumor is
they're making a new V8
5-liter V8,
and that would be the engine.
That's the rumor.
Again, it's all rumors
at this point.
Well, they've got one
in the car concept.
That hypercar
endurance car.
And because this is a
halo car,
and I forget who had the
question, but one of
you actually had the
question for us.
What do we think the pricing
is going to be on this?
I was just looking.
The Genesis G90,
which is going to come up
again in a second,
but the Genesis G90,
which is their current
halo sedan.
That exists.
There's a GV90 coming,
so a halo SUV from them.
But the G90 is a hundred
thousand dollar vehicle.
On either side of a
hundred grand, depending on
how you expect it.
For this to be their
car, this can't because
somebody asked if they
thought it was going to be
against the, the
Amira.
That's not high enough.
Oh, yeah.
This is going to be a hundred
and fifty to two hundred
because what this needs to
be as both the halo car
above the GV90 and the G90.
But also, this needs to feel
like the bargain buy
under the Ferraris
and the McLaren's.
Not the bargain buy
around the Amira and
the Cayman.
So I think hundred and fifty
minimum.
Yeah.
Possibly pushing toward
two hundred.
One of the things
is that the version is one
sixty and you can load it
up to one ninety or something
like that.
And then it looks like a
bargain next to the R8s,
the Timorarios, the four
eight eights.
Those kind of things that
are just above this.
McLaren Artura.
Those will be better
percent.
It's competition.
So this is a roughly
two hundred thousand dollar
car if I had to guess.
But it's got to be their
halo car.
I so hope they bring it.
This might be more than
two and a grand.
I mean, to the point
where I think it's going to
cause Audi to rethink
and cancel the R8 kind of
plans.
We'll see.
Look at this thing.
Yeah.
I mean, speaking.
Gorgeous.
Interesting.
Just the platform.
We know nothing about it.
And I'll, yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wonder if this will be two
fifty.
I mean, they could.
The problem is, in order
for them to be successful, they
have to keep doing what they've
been doing, which was the old
Lexus model of forty years
ago.
And that is, I can't believe
how much I got.
That gets people out of the
other brands.
And I know, once you get to two
fifty, it doesn't really matter
as much anymore.
It's because that's what feels
like to you.
But Genesis has always been very
successful with the Lexus model
of as good as our competitors
for less money.
Yeah.
And that's the place where they
can really make a splash here.
And cause, cause let's be on it.
For his awesome, this isn't a
direct correlation, but think
about it.
For all of the law and press
and amazing hype that the
Mustang GTD has gotten, you
can't talk about it very
long before somebody goes, yes,
$350,000 Mustang.
True.
Meanwhile.
True.
The...
Oh, if that means.
You see what I'm saying?
You still have that price issue.
Meanwhile, the Corvette doesn't
have it.
True.
The CR1 Corvette, everybody
goes, it does all of that
and it's only that expensive.
True.
That's what the Genesis has to
be.
But I still think it's every
bit of a hundred and fifty to
two hundred.
Yeah.
Do you have pictures of the other
Genesis that drive?
I do.
Those are coming.
I just...
Yeah.
That's going to say, tired of
your MC20?
Had enough?
Oh, yeah.
Is your two-year MC20 lease
expired?
Yes.
Uh-huh.
Welcome to the new GT Magma
from Genesis.
This is the car that you want to
get.
Moving on quickly to the GV60 Magma.
This is a 609 horsepower,
650 with boost mode and
recalibrated roll center and
suspension control systems for
optimizing corning and ride comfort
so Genesis is very much
leaning into the high
performance but also luxury
market so it's not just a
full track car but it is
still luxurious.
So it's kind of a balance
between track use here it is
shown on Paul Ricard's
circuit there.
This is the reason the
price was at this event.
Yes.
They came for this one.
Yes.
Because a few years ago we
talked about in this podcast.
Magma was there in brand,
their AMG brand they were
producing.
Their super high performance
brand was going to be magma.
But all they did at the time was
they had like an orange.
I forget which one of
their cars were.
This orange color on one of
their cars.
So this is coming.
G70 or something.
This is the first one to be
released and so they brought
press to that circuit in
Canada or was it France?
This is France.
It's here.
Yeah.
To this circuit in France to
actually show this off and
then it was surprised while
you're here to drive this to
talk about this.
We're going to show you two
things you can't drive.
One is the magma GT Halo
car and the other is the one
I want very, very badly.
This is the G90 wagon.
Called the wing back.
Here's how to do a wagon
every month.
I am struggling, Paul, because
I don't know the last time
anybody released the pictures
of a car that was not a
full sports car that I was
just like take my money now.
This fascinates me.
Every car enthusiast is saying
the same thing.
Take my money right now.
Please build it.
It will be shocking if they
don't, but you know the V8
that you're talking about for
the magma GT.
This is where it goes because
currently with 409 horsepower,
the G90 is plenty powerful.
It's good.
But it needs to be ramped up to
match the E63, the RS6 Audi.
This is their RS6.
Yes, exactly.
Yes.
It needs to have a lot of
horsepower.
Maybe even more and then
still come in as a bargain.
But I think this is where the
luxury market is going because
imagine the Cadillac Celeste
Deak.
Celesteak.
Everything in the Cadillac line
up now by now has an IQ.
And we keep enjoying adding an
Eek.
Everything.
Deak.
Yes.
Escalade Eek.
It's too much.
It is too much.
But imagine that this struck
me as having the same about
the same size and proportions
as a Celesteak.
And it looks awesome.
I want nothing to do with this
Celesteak.
It doesn't interest me.
Yeah.
It doesn't have anything to do
with a drivetrain.
It just doesn't look
interesting to drive.
It doesn't look luxurious.
It doesn't speak to the
high end.
This instantly.
It struck me.
It looks amazing.
It looks amazing.
I want it right now.
I would absolutely drive this.
It's huge.
And it's awesome because it's
huge.
Whereas the Celesteak is just
huge and not awesome.
Well, look.
I would love to see a Celesteak
in person.
I'd like to see this wing back
in person.
Most cars look better in person.
The ones that are not sure about
you seem in person like,
okay, that's pretty good.
The prelude we talked about
earlier is much better in person.
But this looks stunning in
photographs.
It also, by the way, in photographs
looks simply enormous.
It looks incredibly huge.
But it's okay.
That's part of the D90.
That's part of the D90.
The D90 itself is big.
Yeah.
This looks bigger than the E63
or the RS6.
But they've got, you know,
flared defenders.
And they call it the wing back
because it has at least two
fins on it from the factory.
And here's a random
side note.
My wife.
Cayenne girl.
Okay.
She was recently in a GV70
piece we have on the test drive
thing.
She's an SUV girl.
She's a truck girl.
Yeah.
And a couple of years ago,
she dropped the bomb on me
that the only non SUV she might
be interested in is the
Panamera Sport Turismo.
Now, gorgeous car.
Love it.
There's only a huge Panamera
for this.
Yes.
They only made the Sport Turismo
for a few years.
They've stopped now.
So it means they're only ever
going to be used.
But it also means that they're
actually the other Panameras
because they are a unique thing.
So we've been just kind of every
now and then looking at Panamera
prices.
And of course, they're still well
out of our price range.
But it's just that little
side note thing we do on
auto tempas.com.
It's like, no, honey, look.
But she keeps saying to me,
I want a dark green one.
So I showed this G90 wing back
to her.
You did.
Without any introduction,
I just said, I want to show you
something.
And I handed her the computer
and she went,
I want that.
I was like, it's even green already.
So this might be the car.
I mean, look, we're projecting.
I'm sure it'll be way out of our
budget.
But this might be the car.
I could possibly talk my wife
out of a cayenne into something else.
This looks so great.
It looks so great.
We don't need it.
But it's very cool.
The market needs it.
Yes.
I would love to drive this.
And yes, V8 would be amazing.
Look what Genesis is doing.
Yes.
They haven't come out of nowhere
but they define themselves.
They redefine what the brand is.
And they're leaning into all forms
of propulsion.
Not just the EVs over here
with the GG60,
but they're offering the Magma GT.
They're talking about V8s for this.
They're crushing it right now.
Well, they're giving
enthusiasts what enthusiasts want.
A car company, car people want.
Along with their sister companies,
Hyundai and Kia.
Yeah.
What they're doing across the borders,
they're making the high volume SUV
stuff that the market wants.
And they're making high performance
moonshot stuff that just go,
look what we can also do.
Which is creating all of us.
You and I, you watching,
it's creating all of us going,
have you seen this car?
And that frankly sells cars across the board.
When there's desire,
you just, you see it and you just want it?
Yes.
She knew nothing about it.
Not a thing.
Probably not even the brand.
Well, here's the thing.
The thing that really solders
have actually already likes the G90.
Okay, fair enough.
But then she sees this
and was like, that's a G90 wagon.
I was like, yes, it is.
Styling matters.
Of course, powertrain matters.
Of course.
Everything about the perception of the brand.
It's just, I want it.
Genesis is doing something
that Porsche has for a long time
that I feel is a bit in the decline
for Porsche right now.
And that is, oh, it's just,
I just want it.
I just, I have to have it.
I must have it.
How can I get one of those
at some point in my life?
Interesting.
They're doing that now.
They are.
That's huge.
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I wondered if you'd talk about Scout.
Scout.
I'm glad you have Scout photos.
Scout.
I have a photo of you with the Scout.
Which is key.
Because I want you to talk about it.
Yeah.
Which is key.
The first time I think any journalist
has really seen and walked around the Scout.
This was sitting right outside the LA Auto Show.
I was drawn to it like I'm off through a flame.
I have a buddy that has a traditional Scout.
It has a reservation down on one of these.
He's waiting for them to be real
because he really, really wants one.
They look amazing inside and out.
They look astonishing.
The interiors are great.
The material choices are interesting.
I mean, they were all pre-production.
Please don't climb inside of it.
If you see anything that's questionable,
it's because it's pre-production.
I mean, they were barely at the show.
But there they were.
Both the pickup and the SUV.
Yes.
Boggling everybody.
But then after I walked around them for a couple of minutes,
I walked over to you and said,
take my picture beside this truck.
And I'm standing here so you can see.
I love the look on your face.
Yes.
It's kind of like because these things are huge.
They're huge.
This is bigger and taller than a Rivian.
And I am standing for those of you who can't see the picture.
I am standing behind the tailgate of the pickup.
And I am not kidding you.
I am six foot three.
Yeah.
And the edge of the pickup bed is at my collarbone.
People that were less six feet tall were peering over the edge
of the back of the pickup.
And some people were too short to see over the back of the pickup bed.
Yeah.
This is simply shockingly large.
And the nose of it, I hate to say this.
We've seen this already on pickups, like the big Silverados and stuff.
This is the kind of vehicle you cannot take to elementary school pickup.
You cannot take it.
Yeah.
You will never see any children.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I know they've got cameras.
I get it.
But the point I'm making here is.
Crosswalk guards and cameras and all that stuff.
This is blind spot heaven.
You will never see my Lotus Park next to this ever.
You'll just roll right over me.
This, I cannot believe how big this is.
And it was, it was this subconscious thing that kind of seeped its way into my subconscious.
Because I was walking around and going, this is really cool, really cool.
And so they walked by the back of the pickup and was like, why is this this tall?
I'm peering into the back of it.
It's huge.
It's gorgeous, but it's huge.
So I have wondered about car companies, truck builders doing the body on frame EV.
And that's what scout motors is doing here.
It is not just a standard EV platform, like, well, most every EV SUV at this point.
This is body on frame.
And that's the difference between Rivians and scouts.
There is some part sharing.
There's a bit of that.
And you could say, well, you can't say, actually, Rivian is, or scout is just a re-skin Rivian.
Because body on frame with a solid rear axle, which is not what any other EV truck manufacturers doing.
To my knowledge right now, I mean, volunteer motors is kind of going belly up.
And there's a few other boutique manufacturers.
But still, it's got front and rear mechanical lockers and 350 miles of range.
But it also has a gas engine optional that will increase that to a 500 mile range.
It's a generator, yeah.
It's a generator.
So it doesn't drive the drive wheels.
It's just an extra generator add-on.
But this is the Terra EV truck and it's wearing 37-inch tires on 18-inch wheels.
That's part of the reason it was so huge.
It was also jacked up on suspension.
It was enormous, but I couldn't believe it.
It's more of a serious kind of industrial sort of off-roader.
It seems like it.
And the interior actually reflects that.
So you see a different choices of materials.
And they're really leaning into that.
It's a bit Rivian-like with the interior layout.
But I think it makes sense.
And I don't think that's a slight.
I think the interior is a real victory.
The materials look nice.
It doesn't look like everybody else.
They've taken some wood panels and stuff.
It looks like their own thing.
But you can see to your point connect to tissue back to Rivians and that kind of stuff.
But I think it's a great looking.
I mean, they're sticking with the bench seat thing.
Whereas Rivians have that center console.
Pretty much every EV truck in SUV has a big center console.
But here, we're kind of back to old school.
Kind of old school think with new EV technology.
And that's why I think Scout will be successful.
And it's going to be a different choice in that center seat.
Actually, the front seat is a bench.
But the center of the three seats you can fold the back down flat.
And it becomes your console or it becomes a seat.
But I had only been the last time I saw outside of a van, a cargo van.
A front bench doesn't exist.
So here is the travelers that is the SUV concept.
Also enormous.
But the styling on point.
Yeah, it looks great.
Just as good looking as Rivians, I think in some cases here looks a lot better.
But this is, again, the more industrial like true off-roader.
So it'll appeal to more of the hardcore off-road crowd.
And people that want an EV as well.
And with that range extender, I think they're kind of going for best of both worlds here.
They are.
And it comes back to the question we've already asked.
And that is, what is the market for this?
But at least the execution here is very high.
It's really great.
You could not get in any of these.
And the interior, again, interesting materials.
Interesting design choices.
The details were really fascinating to look at.
But everything is so well thought through.
There's nothing that is, I guess, a production think.
Just current production think.
Because they're starting with a hallowed brand.
But they kind of have free reign to kind of push it forward in the future.
And that's why I think they've gotten real creative here.
And you raised a question, if we looked at them.
Because we were very impressed.
After we looked at them, you raised a question.
Because we were looking at things.
And thinking about things like that, that kind of EV.
And the Jeep Recon should scout.
And I'm asking, should scout create this in such a way that they could give you a range of propulsion?
Should they create a version that you can put an engine in the front of?
How much will this market be limited by being EV only?
And I'm asking it because I just don't know.
And I'm asking it because we're seeing so much turmoil
in the market in general.
And I feel like all the manufacturers and you raised this point years ago.
All the manufacturers are leaning into, we need everything to have every option.
Because that's the way forward.
Right.
But here is scout that is planning to be just EV.
Now there's, yes, there's the generator on the back.
But there plan to be just EV.
What is their life cycle just EV?
Would it be different if they figured out a way to engineer it both ways?
I just don't know.
Very curious.
You know, Volkswagen Group, what engine do you put in this?
Do you crib one from Porsche?
Do you grab a V8 out of the GT?
They don't have a V8 or even a great V6 to put in this zone.
They don't.
They don't.
They'd have to look elsewhere.
They'd have to go to Audi or Porsche.
They'd go grab a V8.
Very interesting.
I mean, it was really cool to see them because they're really, really awesome.
Speaking of big trucks, do you have tell you ride or Palisade photos?
I don't.
Do you have some photos?
I don't have either of those.
But I want to touch on them really quickly because the Kia Telluride has been released.
We will show you a photo anyway.
Yes.
It is the new updated Telluride.
Now, we have a review of the current Telluride that's on its way because those have been the
market leader in seven seat family SUVs for a little bit now.
But this is the new Telluride.
It isn't out.
Nobody's driven it.
It is, of course, the sister vehicle to the Palisade.
We did get in the Palisade.
The Palisade has been wonderfully re-styled.
It's been out for a little bit now.
It feels very high in.
The Telluride is feels like Kia and Scout had a conversation.
They look quite similar.
That's good.
They look quite similar.
They are crushing it.
But it looks really good.
And if they can bring the prices in, it looks like it's going to be another victory.
So they had the big new Telluride.
So that is there.
Another thing I don't have photos of but at the same time I was quite surprised.
I have to talk about it.
One of the surprises of the show was the bottom end of the market.
I got into two vehicles that I haven't been in.
I got into both back-to-back of all people to talk about.
Nissan.
They're selling the kicks, which is their small SUV.
And next to it is sitting the Centra, which is their small Corolla fighter.
Both of these vehicles are $22,400 to start.
That is as bad as you can get.
That means you could load one out and still not break 30.
And you climb in them and they both have everything you could think of in a modern car.
I can remember, not long ago, Nissan was a great example.
You climb into the cars at the bottom of the market and you start tallying up in the back of your head.
Everything it doesn't have and how awful it feels.
I'll give you a great example.
The Fiesta ST that we love.
You get in and you just go, whoa, this is low rent.
This is low rent in here.
I climbed into both these cars.
Now they weren't the base $22,000 model but they're still well under 30.
I climbed into both these cars and just sat there going, this is great.
You don't need anything else.
This is a bottom of the market victory for Nissan on both those vehicles.
Do you like the kicks?
Do you prefer the center?
Do you want SUV?
Do you want sedan?
The material choices are good.
The design is good of the interior.
At this end of the market, I don't know that you care how it drives.
It's going to be a CBT.
It's not supposed.
But you need transportation and here is a new option that is not going to feel like a punishment box.
The problem with the bottom of the market forever has been you got in something and just went,
this is all we can't afford but it has a warranty.
It makes the budget work but it has a warranty.
These are victories and I want to just give a shout out to Nissan that both of these cars have a lot of car for the money, especially when we're talking about so many cars that are so expensive, they are really waving the flag for the bottom of the market and doing a very, very good job.
And sitting not far from those, the charger.
Have you seen the charger recently?
It's huge.
It's huge.
This feels like how monstrous the S-Class extended wheelbase additions felt in like the early 2000s.
This is an enormous car.
Now they had the 6-pack there, okay?
Yeah.
This is the RHO engine that they put in the replacement of the TRX.
They put it in some other places.
So they have put a turbo-powerful 5600 horsepower actual gasoline motor in the front.
550S is something like that.
And similar torque.
So this comes in two-door and four-door.
What it means is kind of like the four-series BMW.
What it means is you end up with a two-door with shocking amounts of backseat space.
But you get in the backseat of this front or backseat.
This is the rare car, except for the executive class cars, where one of us gets in the front seat and sets our seating position and the one of us gets in the back and goes,
is that really as far back as you're going to get?
Because you've just got like inches and inches in front of your knees.
This has so much space front and back, so much space between shoulders if you're sitting next to somebody and a back hatch.
This is however big you think it is, it's bigger.
Because sitting next to this was the Alpha Julia, which I love.
And the Alpha Julia looked like a compact car next to this.
It's because it is.
And it's a perfectly usable four-door.
I have a question about this.
Okay.
I have a question for you.
And that is Dodge Magnum.
What if-
Oh, yes.
Yes.
Would we all suddenly love Dodge again?
Would that justify this platform?
Would it justify both Sixpack and EV if they brought the Magnum wagon back?
I love it.
I love it.
We're all fawning over the G90 wagons.
Exactly true.
Stylish here.
Yep, yep, totally agree.
Bring the Magnum back, Dodge.
I agree.
And I also want to give-
I mean, we're talking about cars.
Yes, wag.
Oh.
I can't get that out of my head now.
That's great.
I love it.
We're talking about cars that surprise us of the early auto show.
And this surprised me because this car landed with a thud.
Now we haven't driven it yet.
I want to drive it.
But the electric version landed with a thud.
I don't know a single outlet that praised it.
And that's damning.
Yeah.
Okay.
People that we trust drove it and went, please stay away.
So now, seriously.
So now, they have the-
And I really like that straight six.
That's a good-
It's a great engine.
Now they have a good engine in this.
And I got in and I just thought-
And you even made comments.
The design of the interior panels on the doors,
the space of the seats, the space in general, the technology.
It's a nice place to be.
It's extremely well done.
If it drives even decent,
this is a rare car in the market.
Yep.
A rear wheel drive based big sedan.
How many of those are even out there anymore?
Nobody's selling that car.
Or get it in all wheel drive.
Okay, fine.
But I want this to drive great.
But even if it drives, okay.
I think this is a victory.
And if they make it in a wagon.
The magnum needs to come back.
Then you have a competitor to the new G90 and whatever else.
And you have a cheaper variant of the people of the RS6s
and the Panamera's in the G60s of the world.
So I'm-
Yeah.
I was pleasantly surprised to be in this.
And I walked away so shocked by how big it is.
It's just huge.
But if it were the wagon version.
None of us would care.
We'd be like, yeah.
You'd be like, yeah.
I don't know why.
But I need a big wagon.
Yes.
That's very funny.
So that's the situation as well.
That kind of sentiment now going on, I suppose?
Yes.
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All right, moving on to a few other cars
that we ran into at the show.
We were talking a little bit about Rivian
and the R2 was there.
Not seeing the R2 in person,
but that styling works in a more compact package.
It does.
Rivian is claiming 300-plus miles
and starting at $45,000 for the R2,
I thought the styling was actually excellent.
It looks great in person.
I agree.
Yes, it does.
Really like this thing,
and I wonder if everybody's sort of,
well, you said,
people were kind of waiting for this
and cool and everything,
but you had to do this to get this out of the way
so the R3 can come along.
Which is what everybody's talking about.
But honestly, this R2 is right-sized.
Yeah, it really is.
Because the R1 and the R1S,
the R1S and the R1T are big.
They're not scout big, but they're big.
This feels normal city center right-sized.
Yeah.
And the good styling of Rivian and the cool looking seats,
I think this is a real victory for them
if they can get it out the door.
I just continue to wonder how some of these EV startups
are going to survive.
But this is cool.
I hope it comes out soon.
Agreed.
A few more gratuitous photos.
ZR1X.
We had not seen the ZR1X in person,
up close, or the ZR1.
If you have not seen Mark and Jack's
crowning the King review yet,
that was not with the X.
That was the ZR1 Mustang GTD
in the Porsche 911 GT3 RS.
So go watch that piece if you haven't seen it.
It was a lot of fun to talk to those guys.
It was really cool.
Very good.
But here is the even more car.
And it's so aggressive.
The Stingray was so aggressive.
They've gone even further.
They've gone even more sharp,
intakes, aggression, crisp lines,
creases everywhere.
And so this, I think,
works so well in person.
It made the car look smaller because
which is weird.
The proportions of all the styling
have grown so big.
It's made the entire car look smaller
and kind of feel smaller to be next to it.
But this was impressive.
The presence of this car is quite impressive.
Yeah, agreed.
All the horsepower.
I'm very excited about driving it now.
Agreed.
Also the Mustang GTD.
When I see it, I just cannot help but think
how heavy this car is.
And, you know, we want to drive it.
Everybody is really liking it.
And spoiler alert, Jack really liked it too.
So that was his choice in the video.
But this is a huge car.
It's enormous.
It's heavy and it's big.
It's big at every angle.
But wow, I cannot believe it's a Ford product.
I can't believe it costs as much as it does.
But it's a throw down.
It's a big throw down.
And then here comes Genesis with the Magma GT.
That's for less.
I don't know.
That would be amazing.
And then moving on to a concept
from Hyundai called Crater.
And this is quite interesting.
The concept began with a question
from designer.
A designer sang up Lee.
What does freedom look like?
And this is what the team came up with.
This vehicle stands as their answer.
He said it is a vision shaped by their
unending drive to explore and inspire their customers
to explore deeper and embrace the impact of adventure.
But it was this vehicle that sort of made me think
what if car companies are designing for particular areas
of the planet?
I see it.
I see it.
Because here it is shown in California.
It could work in maybe Utah,
but it's not a Moab kind of vehicle.
It's not a rock crawler necessarily.
But the interior, check this out.
It's designed like a giant crash pad.
It's really old school roll bars.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Covered in old school padding.
It was really actually quite refreshing to see this.
Of course, concepts are just that.
They're always that.
Very simple, relatable forms.
It's just tubing everywhere.
It just felt like the razor is the side by sides.
It's definitely influenced by that.
It feels like it's the road going version
of what a side by side razor would be.
It's definitely that idea.
Cool versions.
A bit of luxury, a little bit more.
I mean, the reality is this is so concept right now.
It's going to be majorly changed if it ever comes to market.
But it was to the points you've been making already.
Hyundai, Genesis, Kia are really just going.
What are the exciting parts of the market
that can get people talking?
And this is very much one of those concepts.
Yeah, it's such a niche.
If they built this, the internet is going crazy for this one as well.
But again, Kia, Genesis, Hyundai, that trio.
Look at the cars they're doing.
Look at what they're appealing to customers.
It's resonating with everybody.
And what was so interesting, even though we don't know too many details
about the powertrain, it almost doesn't matter.
We know it's going to be EV.
It'll be fast.
It'll be plenty of power.
Probably decent range.
You know, they're going to think of all that and address all that.
What I found most interesting was the bring your own device approach
to the interior.
Hyundai suggests a flexible and customizable digital experience
adapting to various situations and individual user preferences.
So this is customized to yourself.
Make it your own.
Yeah, I mean, it's the same as thinking, obviously,
that is behind the slate truck if that ever shows up.
But it asks the same questions that we're talking about with things like the recon.
Is it all electric EV that's leaned into off-road capability?
Is that EV truck, is there a market?
I don't know.
This is cool.
And I'm curious to see, because of course, all of these concepts.
Any time you go to another show and there's concepts like this,
they're waiting to see public reaction.
They're waiting to see us to talk about it.
Anybody that talks, anybody that writes,
what is the public reaction?
Should we maybe move forward on this?
I'm so curious, because this is so concept out there.
What is the production version of this look like?
And I think the way forward is to do various different types of drive lines.
I don't think just EV makes sense.
But we'll see where all of these go.
It's just plastic panels shaped like crash pads.
It won't actually be tubing with the crash pads over it.
And then last photo from me from all of our concepts and all of our fun cars,
you just needed some sorbet for the eyes,
just some beautiful Italian styling,
and you just wanted to make your heart sing.
So here it is, the Alpha Romeo 33 Stradale, just gorgeous.
It's so sexy in person.
It's a fantastic looking car.
You're really good.
You know, I've heard rumors about Maserati and Alpha kind of getting together more
for future supercars.
It kind of begs the question, which brand will it fall under?
But the good news is it's all Italian.
So here it is.
I don't care.
Bring us more of this stuff.
I want to drive it.
It was just sexy and gorgeous.
And it was just really quite refreshing to come around the corner and see this thing.
I did not expect it to be there.
We just walked around it for a minute.
It was very cool.
Just beautiful.
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Our year is winding down with hooked on driving.
We will actually have the schedules for 2026 coming out in December.
December mid-December leading into January.
Including schedules for our trips next year.
But the one trip that we do have right now is Spain and Portugal.
That is April 24th through 29th, 2026.
That is the first of our many trips in 2026.
But that one's out and available for registration right now.
It is very spouse friendly.
You have a, I'd not like to go to the race track, significant other.
This is the trip.
That's the perfect one for that.
I'm hoping to maybe take my wife.
And she is very much in that camp of, oh, you're going to the track.
Are you?
I will not.
That's the trip for that.
You can go to hooked on driving right now.
You can find that.
This is circuit de Seville in Seville, Spain.
And Portemau as well.
So the Portemau hotel is actually on the beach.
So am I selling the beach?
Yeah.
Drive a cool car.
Yeah. Beautiful weather.
There's a road tour day in the middle with a walking tour of Seville.
I mean, this is different than a lot of our trips.
We're very excited about it.
But we do have a few events that are going to close out our year at hooked on driving.
We have VIR.
This is coming out on Tuesday.
You're going to eat too much on Thursday.
And by Friday, you might be ready to be done with family for a bit.
And the Mid-Atlantic can cover you.
Virginia International Raceway, Devon, Ryan, Heather out there are throwing a really cool event at VIR.
That is both Saturday and Sunday, the 29th and 30th of November.
That closes out their year.
And then we, the California region, are actually finishing our year at Thunder Hill Raceway.
The three mile configuration on Saturday and the five mile on Sunday.
That is Saturday, December 13th.
Sunday, the 14th.
Paul and I will be there.
We're doing a raffle.
There's a Toys for Tots Drive.
There's an announcement of the California schedule.
California Regional Schedule for next year.
That's all happening there.
That weekend there's a lot of stuff going on.
We've got a cool pro coach that's going to be there giving coaching.
That is a big event.
That is closing our year out.
And then starting the next day, Monday, December 15th, we are doing the pre-buy.
It allows you to pre-buy it.
It's kind of like a ski pass.
It's a little different.
It's kind of a ski pass concept.
Buy into the season to come.
For 2026, that'll be from December 15th to January 15th of 2026.
That is the way for you to buy the best discounted days for 2026 hooked on driving nationwide.
We're very excited about that.
You and I are really excited about closing this year out because it's been a really good year.
It's been a great year.
We're going to close it out strong and then we've got so many great dates on the calendar for 2026.
Yes, I can't wait to talk about that.
Every region is excited to share their dates with you.
So go to hookdowndriving.com.
Look at the dates soon and get your pre-buys starting December 15th, 2025.
For our first car debate, we're talking tech money.
That's where we are.
Nicholas has written in.
And he writes this almost tongue in cheek.
He says, I know this is a ridiculous sentence, but he says, I'm young.
Rich and I want bragging rights.
He's made money in tech.
He's hanging out in tech at the ripe old age of 25.
And all of his buddies in tech drive super big cars, big bragging rights cars.
He's got a coworker with a GT4.
He's got a coworker with a 918.
He's got a coworker with a 06.
He drives a Honda HRV.
And he's getting rid of a little bit about where is your fun car.
So he's decided it's time to buy a fun car.
He is actually thinking he'd like to buy something that is on either side of about $100,000.
Roughly $100,000 budget.
So he has his Ford that he's thinking of and he's asking us for help beyond that.
Thank you for writing, Nick.
Really appreciate it.
Your email caused me to have so many questions.
Because I thought back to when I was 25 wanting it all, didn't have money at a Honda court.
Actually, that's when I was a couple of years after that, I bought the first 928.
But that was $19,000.
It wasn't 100 grand.
It's not like we're talking here.
And he admits he's blessed to be in this position.
He's never splurged on himself and invested all he could want to pick something awesome and enjoy it while he's young.
He says he wants bragging rights as conceited as it sounds.
And I encourage all of you listening and watching to think back when you were 25 years old and how that influenced your car choices.
It was just want.
I just want it.
But he's also aware of the fact that at 25 with money in the bank because he said he's been conservative up to right now.
He's basically got into a really good tech job right out of high school.
He's made some good money.
So now he's for the first time looking around and going, I could splurge on myself.
But here's the other thing to think about.
He's single.
There's no attachments.
So it's not like the dog, the wife.
This is his opportunity to just kind of do something.
Frankly, kind of stupid.
Just like I can.
Why not true?
Fair enough.
So in that regard.
Okay.
Nicholas, I actually want to applaud you for the fact that you are this email is very self aware.
That's true.
That's true.
That's true.
But you're 25.
This is a time you can splurge.
You have the ability to splurge.
So you get into conversations.
And the other thing that's interesting about this is you are aware of the fact that this car you're going to buy is going to be a commute car.
Yeah.
So it actually has to do the daily work.
Your first option that you brought up is the Lotus Evora GT with a manual.
And you said it is, to your opinion, the best sounding car south of a $200,000 McLaren.
And it does sound great.
It really sounds great.
So he loves that it's rare.
That has the engagement.
He likes everything about it.
But he thinks it's going to be difficult to daily.
Now, I think you're saying that partially because they are manual only the GTs.
I think that's partially why you're saying that.
And I want to circle back to that later.
But that's the first one you bring up.
You then bring up a Porsche, because of course you do.
A 718 came in GTS.
That is the 2.5 liter turbo you're thinking about.
You could flash the ECU and put on an exhaust and maybe get a big wing and turn it into something other than that started as.
This is very easy for you to daily.
And again, I think this is PDK is where you're headed.
Okay.
So very easy for you to daily.
And he said his only concern here is you clearly are in Silicon Valley because there's a lot of these.
There's a ton of these.
So that makes you kind of go.
It's a good car.
I want one.
And I got many thoughts to say on all of these.
Your third idea is the Amira.
Like that.
Now you said it solves your daily issues over the average GT.
And I think it's because the Amira comes auto.
He hasn't said it.
Okay.
But I think that's why.
But what's weird is, he says that where he is, he feels like the Amira is too common.
He might be an Arizona.
Right.
He is an Arizona.
Not really an Arizona.
There is a super popular Lotus dealership in Arizona that seems to be feeding his community
with cars.
And so he sees a lot of the Amira at cars and coffee, which I actually find amazing.
He's concerned that Lotus is going to make so many of them that they will be too commonplace.
That's interesting because I have not seen very many here or when we go to LA.
I don't see many.
I mean, California would have a lot.
I suppose, yeah, the Southwest.
Yeah, but we've been in LA and I haven't, I think I've seen one in our last two or three
trips to LA.
Really?
And I've seen, I think, two others in the Salt Lake area that were not my own.
So where are they?
I mean, they're out there.
I mean, they're out there.
Sure.
But so his fourth option is what do can we think up?
Because he said there are a lot of other porches in option four.
And then what is the stuff that we can think up here that he hasn't thought of?
I want to talk about all four of his ideas.
And then I have two he hasn't thought of.
I'm very curious here where you're going to, Paul.
I think about being 25, not a care and having money.
I mean, that wasn't ever me, but me either.
What age are mine now?
Because I still don't have that money.
Moving on.
Sorry.
I mean, I take your point that now's the time in next life.
It's almost caution to the wind.
It's now so he can look back and say, when I was 25, I had this hot, crazy, useless thing,
not useless.
But you know what I mean?
It was just this frivolous.
Frivolous is the right word.
Because he can, if any of you watching or listening, if you were 25 and could buy a hundred
thousand dollar car, you would have, that's the reality.
We would have been like, okay, I'll go buy that.
Yeah.
And I take your point, Nick, because you're saying like any other Porsche between 70,000,
120,000, 981 Cayman's 911.2s, it feels unoriginal.
You see them coming to go on and they are great cars.
And I started to apply wrong think to your email, okay?
I started to apply sort of what we talk about to everyone, and that is, well, what are
you going to use the car for?
Are you just buying it for bragging rights?
Are you just buying it because you want to show off?
Because that to me is, I guess it's Porsche's, yeah, McLaren's Lamborghini's, well, I guess
it's every hot sports car you just buy to show off.
Because we have hooked on driving, we want you to buy a car with purpose, I'm going to
use it for track purposes, or maybe it's a fun canyon and some track, or maybe it's just
a hot GT car, and I go canyon carving, or just a lot of high speed driving, or something
like that.
We always try to think, what am I going to use it for?
It's hard for me to think, I'm just going to use it to brag.
It's hard for me to remember that part of my life.
And so I want you to have something original, well thought through, something that you can
easily defend to anybody that says, well, why don't you get a Lotus or a Porsche?
And I think I have that car, and you're going to spend a lot on it.
It's absurd money, it's a hundred grand.
But then the commute part enters the equation.
See, that's the thing, he's going to show up at work because part of this, there's bragging
rights, but there's also peer pressure.
There's peer pressure.
All the buddies that he hangs out with, he shows up in the HRV and they have all their
hot cars and they're going, you have the money, where's your hot car that you can drive
to the office?
Well, yes, but either the Amira, the Evora, the 9-11's that, okay, you got yours.
Unoriginal man, that's what he's worried about, for sure, yeah.
So I think I've come up with something unique, original, easily defendable, lots of power.
You can track it, you can, canyon carve, you can go on road trips, everything, it's still
really hardcore, I think it's still really rewarding, and I think you're going to be set
apart from the usual crowd and you're still going to spend a hundred grand on the new
BMW M2 CS.
This thing has horsepower's cranked up to 523 horsepower.
What is more than the 9-11 GT3s, Nick?
Interesting point.
It's heavier, but that's still great.
It's heavier.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This has been lightened a touch.
Optimized, they took out a seat cushion.
It's 30 pounds lighter or so, but still, they were thinking lightweight, they were thinking
suspension and break optimization, lots of carbon stuff.
But this thing, nobody, no car enthusiasts can be like, oh, the M2 CS, like, nah, no,
nobody will say that.
Interesting.
Because they know it can do everything so well, they can do everything at a very high
level.
So here is that newly introduced, the 2026 M2 CS, they're absurdly priced.
They are, they are.
But absurdly fast.
They're very capable.
Really cool looking.
It's really, it has grown on me.
It doesn't quite have the beaver teeth, and you know what, I think I do like it, especially
with this new ductile rear.
It still helps.
This is better looking, but it's still kind of a bulbous mess to me, but I, it's aggressive
and it's, it's got that showy kind of bragged, bragged docious kind of look to it, but it
also backs it up with, okay, you can track it, and by the way, you and all your friends,
I want you to, yes, come to a hooked on driving track day or go somewhere and get better
at driving.
We agree.
Become better drivers, yes.
I've got a hot car, and I don't really know how to use it, and that's when accidents happen
because you're showing off, and you don't know how to control your high horsepower, very expensive
sports car.
So, the classic mistake is I'm going to turn this corner and floor it while I do it.
I'm going to leave the light, turning right while flooring my car, and then I wonder why
I wound up in the median backwards.
That is the classic mistake.
It just happens.
So Nick, take a look at this interior.
The seats in this car are superb.
So good.
Yeah.
They are really great.
So delicious.
They're so good.
It's an expensive option.
So you're going to pay maybe more than a hundred grand for this car.
But what a car.
What a unique discerning choice, and it's almost like one of those that you can defend more
easily because it isn't the typical, the Lotus, the Porsche, the McLaren, the Lamborghini,
the same, same, same, same M2, but I choose this because of the commute.
If you weren't commuting in this, and this was just your front car, I'd tell you to go
get a GT4.
Go get a GT4 RS.
It's been twice your dollars.
Twice your money.
There it is.
You know, pulse bit twice the blood.
There it is.
I love that.
Slender 80,000 more than a GT4, just a slim 80 grand on top of a GT4, but whatever, right?
So 100 grand, just over 100 grand for an M2 CS, that is hardcore man, but you can commute
in this.
It's still going to be hardcore ride, but to do it all, to have a special car, to kind
of stand out from the crowd, and you can claim more power than all the Lotus we're talking
about.
And most Porsche 911s.
You have more power in this car, also learn to harness that power and become a better
driver.
Agreed.
So you're stopping there.
So I am.
You're only shooting.
Well, I kind of toyed with this idea.
Oh, look at you.
Okay.
It's not an idea.
It's not even in wild card category.
It's in, don't even mention category.
But here I am.
You're mentioning anyway.
Got it.
I thought, oh, for 120 grand, just go buy a 360 Modena and do the manual swap.
Have it done.
Don't buy one that's already been done because those cost too much.
They've added another jump in price on top of it.
But the problem with this is, even though it's really cool, I could see it doing this,
then you're just young kid in a Ferrari, and it's older car, and then, you know, you're
using it for commuting and you're dumping on your way to maintenance.
He might want the manual too.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And see it.
But you don't want the F1-style transmission in this.
You don't.
So I'm weighing the point.
Yeah.
If I were 25, I'd be like, yeah, young kid in a Ferrari.
That's me.
I want to do that.
Here I come.
Here I come.
There's perception that go along with it.
So I'm not mentioning in that, really not.
I'm going to stick with the cool seats in this really sweet looking.
I see it.
That's a good sniper shot.
Look at this thing.
That's a really good sniper shot.
I have to keep you.
I have to keep you.
I have to keep you.
I'll color the wheels.
That's a heck of a car.
All right.
I'll give you that.
Nicholas, I'm going to talk through your choices here, and I'm going to give you some
other ones.
I want to start with, you brought up the Evora.
And the only thing I can think of, why you're not choosing the Evora GT, because you said,
you don't think you can commute, and you don't think it's a daily, I'm just guessing
that means manual.
You haven't said so, but you said no Evora GT, but yes to the Amira, and I'm thinking
it's because the Evora GT is essentially a manual car.
So there is not a thing wrong with this car.
This would be a fantastic alt choice.
You could defend it like crazy.
Yes, you'd have to drive a manual daily.
And maybe you don't want that.
And this is product, I will admit, this is predominantly going to be your usage.
You said it is going to be your daily.
So you would love this car everywhere you drive it.
I think, especially everywhere, fun you drove it.
You would like it less on the commute.
So I do understand why it's out, but that is a fan.
Look, I love that you brought it up.
It's a sweet car.
It's a great car.
Let's go to the base Cayman, and not the base.
I have a picture of a base Cayman up here, 718 turbo.
But you're talking about the GTS with the 2.5 liter turbo, so not the 4-0.
This is the turbo engine, and you're talking about an ECU and a big wing and all this kind
of stuff.
Here's my problem.
Yes, with PDK, with whatever you want to do to it, I'm sure it would be a perfectly
good daily.
It would work very, very well.
It would blend with the sea of other porches in the area where you work.
The problem I have with you buying a lower or mid-level Cayman, and doing stuff to it,
is you were constantly going to explain why yours is unique.
Constantly.
And you did this for what?
Are you a track driver?
Is it?
What's the bill for?
And you put all this money into for what?
I was at a car show this past year, and it was a big car show this past summer.
I parked the Amira, but it just parked it, just there it was, parked way at the fringes
that the show was huge.
There was no parking.
We parked way at the fringes, and they were like a dumpster, it was like, this is the
only parking that's available.
And in front of us, we're too nearly identical, spec'd brand new 9-11s, 9-9-2s.
Okay?
Okay?
Bodie and I, my son and I, we had out of the Amira, and we started to walk.
We were invisible.
Well, that's a thing.
We started walking toward the show, and the two guys, there were pairs of guys in each
of these 9-11s.
They didn't know each other, but they all got out at the same time.
We walked by them, while they each explained to the other one, the nuance is why their
9-11 was special.
Okay.
You've never seen this combination of this paint with this way I actually did the color
of the interior, and I thought, are we really being this pedantic?
If you have the money for that car, you could have bought something that was unexpected.
Drew?
Versus standing here, explaining to the guy and you're nearly identical car, why your two
cars are so super unique.
That is the Porsche equivalent of the laminated thing at the car, car show next to the
Corvette.
It's the Porsche equivalent.
You just did it verbally instead of having on the laminated car.
I'm sorry, but we've reached that place.
The Caymans on the 9-11s are so common in car culture that everybody stands around and
explains why theirs is so super unique.
I mean, that's the culture Porsche has created by being one of the few car companies that
offer that many choices to the police.
I agree.
I agree.
Any car company will take your money and go build you some Porsche.
But they're known for that, and so that makes it yours, but then it causes this.
So your desire to take what is a solid look?
We drove.
We did our Cayman comparison, generational comparison.
We drove that 2.5-liter GTS.
It's very good, but I think you're going to constantly be tweaking it to try to make it
something that stands out among all the others around.
And then like you said, constantly explaining yourself.
So that leads me to the Amira, which is a fancy looking car, but I think what you're choosing
is the 4-cylinder turbo AMG engine.
Also sweet.
Which is very cool.
Yes.
I'm not going to explain it, but I think you're going with the DCT.
So that would be a good one.
I think you would really like this car.
Now what's interesting is you're the first person I've actually heard that says there's
a lot in my market, because I have not seen a lot.
And our local Salt Lake Lotus dealers has a lot on the lots, like 15 up in any time.
They're down.
They're just not selling them very quickly.
And the 4-cylinder you can get deals on.
I think you're concerned about this car being too common.
I think give it 18 months because I think what's happening with the Amira now that they're
available is a lot of people that want something different that they don't feel like a lot
of people have seen yet, they're all they're buying for that.
It happened with the new Beetle.
I'm not saying it's the same.
But it happened with the Beetle.
It happened with the PT Cruiser.
All these cars that came out to be like, oh, that's really cool.
They all got bought.
And six months later, most people got rid of them, because now they're not the only one
they've seen.
So you think it'll get rarer and more special in the frame.
It's going to be less of these around than Porsche's.
Even if you feel like you're seeing too many right now, they're never going to make as many
of these as they are 9-11's or Cayman's.
True.
And I think a lot of people are going to buy them because I've never seen one of these.
And it's really beautiful.
And it's really, really cool.
And it's something different.
And then in about six months I can be like, I'm bored.
So I think if you really like this car, if you buy it and hang on to it, I think you're
going to wind up being one of the few that has one versus everybody having one.
Okay.
That's my suspicion.
I don't know.
But I wanted to give you some ideas.
If you're money that are out of the box because you said you could buy a stream of Porsche's
and that kind of stuff.
If you want to stand out but have cred, you have to go used.
Okay.
And I have two.
Many times.
One is an R8.
First generation R8 sting.
The very early R8s with the side blade.
The ones that were first announced by the original Iron Man movie, the full side blade.
Don't go to the one after they split the side blade.
Generates don't do that.
V8 or V10.
Interesting.
Look, I would say gated manual because I love it.
But you could go with the auto and these and you'd be fine.
We drove Harries.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
With the Estronic transmission and the 10.
With V10.
Good.
It was good.
It was very good.
This is a car that is already aging toward classic status, but the budget is down where
you want them to be.
$100,000 you can buy a really nice one.
The bottom of the market is like $60, $70,000 you can get a really nice one.
Yeah.
Nobody's going to look at this and be like another R8.
And those cars are terrible.
True.
They have come down enough that there are various people including some various vloggers
and stuff that have bought them to make them show cars.
I get that.
But this is especially if you get a pristine one in a nice color that is close to stock
because I feel like the ones I'm seeing a lot of are somebody bought them because they
were at the bottom of the market and they did a bunch of stuff to it.
Yeah.
It's got weird fins and canards it never had and the entire rear bumpers are moved because
look at my turbos.
Yeah.
A really nice pristine one that runs hold out for a nice color combination.
Yes.
Yeah.
So R8 and then my last one for you is if you're going to get a classic Porsche, I have your
I have your answer and it's way under your budget like $60, $70 grand.
Get yourself the nicest $997 Targa you can find.
This is Porsche does a luxury car, a 911 luxury car.
You don't see very many of these.
You get all the goodness of the 997 generation Porsche which I love.
It's my favorite generation in the 911 ever.
This is late 2000s, okay?
Yep.
You get a, I'm showing you on picture right now, you get a liftable glass hatch that you
can put stuff into the back or the back seats.
Quite rare.
They have a really nice chrome strip along the top that tells you what they are.
You don't see very many of these.
The glass panoramic roof essentially slides back to become a target.
It's a different way of doing targets.
My favorite way they've ever done it.
You never see these.
Yeah.
You see 911.
The 997's a lot but you hardly ever see a Targa.
Yeah.
So find one of these and here's the thing.
You might have to explain to some people what it is, but it'll be because, because they
don't know which 911 it is.
This is a discerning choice.
Yes.
I like this a lot.
So this is my last one for you because this is the 911 you can buy and you explain it
because most people haven't seen one.
That's very good.
So that's my, my choices for you Nicholas.
Wow.
I hope you have a great find.
Happy hunting.
Let us know what you end up getting and send photos when you do or very curious.
I think everybody else is too everyday driver TV at gmail.com topic Tuesday's car conclusions
and car debates.
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Rick writes to us from LA.
He is wanting a fun car for small family and his wife are in the suburbs of Los Angeles
planning on starting a family soon and he is in the, in the need of a new car.
Okay.
Currently has a year 2000 Toyota Tacoma with access cabs still going strong, but he can't
fit a car seat in it.
Nord can he fit three people in it comfortably?
They have another compact sedan, which is barely big enough for a car seat in that compact
sedan is unnamed unmentioned.
We don't know.
But apparently it's staying.
The Tacoma is going.
Whatever, whatever his wife drives, that's staying.
So okay.
Since he hates SUVs, partially thanks to us.
We have influenced that.
I look, I'm glad because the world does not need more SUVs.
It just doesn't.
Yeah.
It's not a larger sedan that has plenty of space for a car seat and a decent sized trunk
for maybe a stroller, other child stuff that he's not very familiar with yet.
It's all plastic and really, really bright.
And we'll get sticky and have some sort of mystery ooze on it like you don't even know
what that is.
We got to hose that off.
Yeah.
That's going to happen.
The car has to be somewhat sporty with good looks, decent handling characteristics.
He's not a speed junkie, but it does love accelerating quickly and he enjoys spirited driving
in the canyons near LA.
Love it.
There's some great roads in there.
There are.
Going around.
He enjoys driving for the sake of driving.
Love it.
He would love a manual car, but they're a few and far between, so he thinks he's counting
those out, especially because his wife will need to drive this car and she is adamant
about it not being a manual.
So we clear, I mean, so the manual is fully out.
Yeah.
I think it's fully out.
Yeah.
Which is no problem.
Yeah.
I think I have your car right.
I think I do too.
I've got a few actually.
Their budget is between 35 and $40,000 if they find something that is just right, he would
love a large luxury sedan, like a seven series BMW or an A8 Audi, but he imagines those
are way out of their price range and he gets scared at the thought of repair costs.
He wants to see what we come up with.
I can't imagine.
I mean, the luxury sedan sounds great, but wafting along, you're going to want something
that you're going to want to take driving.
Here's the thing, he's going to like that everywhere but the canyons and then he's going
to get the canyons.
And you're going to have that thing most of the time in LA, you're going to have that experience
in the canyons that we've had many times with performance SUVs where you go, this is
amazing for what it is.
Yeah.
You'll be surprised at how well the seven series or the A8 does on those canyon roads.
While the whole time you're thinking, I need to be in something smaller and lighter than
this.
Yeah.
Well, speaking of which, Rick, I think I have your car, it's the only car that I'm going
to suggest for you.
Look at you.
It is the Elantra N.
Done and we're done.
You can get it new for 35, 37, you don't even have to spend 40 or get it slightly used.
I'm sure you're going to want to get the refresh styling, even though I did like the
early styling, but if you want the refresh, go get yourself a new one.
I did not like the original.
I know you didn't.
I know.
But, look, manual or DCT in this thing, everyone including us raves about this car.
It's so much fun.
It's got a big trunk, it's blocked by the cross braces, but it's got cool cross braces
in the back.
But he's got a decent size trunk.
Still got a decent size trunk.
A good size back seat.
Huge back seat because you get those shells, the front seats, the back of the front seats
are kind of the racing shell and so gives you actually more space in the back seat and
you don't have to apologize.
You can drive this normally, but then you want to go driving on some canyon roads.
That's where we drove hours and we loved it.
Elantra and brand new, go get it.
Do not walk.
Run to your Hyundai dealer.
Interesting.
Elantra.
It's got farts, it's got snorting noises, it's fun, it's loud, it's cool, it's crazy,
but then you can just back off and drive it.
I think you've done very well there.
In fact, Rick, this is going to be the big debate between you and your wife.
I'm sure it is now listening as well.
This will be the big debate because you've leaned into the canyon car.
And I'm leaning more into the daily family car that can do the canyon.
I'm going to start somewhere a little bit different and that is I'm going to start right
here with the Volvo S60 pole star.
That is such a sleeper.
That is such a sleeper.
That's a sexy looking car too.
And it has actually a surprisingly big back seat.
It's one of those back seats you get in and you're like, oh, this has a lot of space.
And then a big trunk.
Of course, you could also get in a wagon, but I'm just staying with the sedan for now.
So the pole star tuned version of the S60, get one of these used, I think you could find
them in your budget.
They might be a little above your budget.
What about the wagon?
Maybe the wagon too.
Either one.
The wagon, the pole star engineer wagon.
How far back do you want to go?
You can find them in your budget at some point.
I'm actually showing current version right now, but these are out there.
Yeah.
They're not common, but they drive very, very well.
And then they can just chill out and be a luxury sedan, like a full on luxury sedan.
Yeah.
So that's why I had to bring that up.
As I keep moving in this same idea of really good daily that can do performance things,
I have to bring it up again.
The charger's enormous.
It's enormous.
It's so big.
It's so big.
You could almost get one new, I think these are above your budget, but you could almost
get one new.
They might, they might do cash on the hood on these because they're trying to move them.
I'm just saying they might do anything.
There is so much space in this, the back seat, your child's going to feel like they're
too far away from you.
That's how big the back seats are.
You might have random crying because the kid doesn't realize you're even in the car.
This has a fun space.
And then it actually has a surprisingly big hatch as well, even though it's a sedan shape.
So I have to bring it up because we were so impressed by the scale of it.
This would be a fun, fun dead car.
It's going to feel big in the canyons.
That's the problem.
Staying with that theme, the Audi A7, a little smaller than the A8, you'll be surprised
at how much of these have come down in price.
It's also aged well.
That looks good.
And this is, yeah, this is an early one.
You can get them obviously newer, but I'm showing like an 18, 19 here.
And I think you actually should look at the Audi A7s because that hatchback is going
to be worthwhile.
They're slightly smaller than the A8s, so you'd prefer it on a canyon road as a result.
But that leads me to my two favorites.
I'm trying to think about, you're on a back road just you, and you're having a great
time, Rick, an awesome time.
But then you can pick up the whole family and everybody's got space, okay?
First one of those, Chevy SS in auto with Magna Ride.
Just get the auto.
The auto is fine.
I mean, yes, the manual is cool, but in your case, the auto is fine.
Be sure you get Magna Ride.
The manuals are the ones that are above your budget.
The auto's all day long in your budget.
This is the modern equivalent of the BMW E39 BMW.
It's the modern equivalent of that.
So this doesn't have, it's not as luxurious as some of the other options, but dynamically,
this may be the best of everything I've brought up.
Rear wheel drive, automatic, Magna Ride.
You will love this.
And then it can be, I've got it in a crazy orange color on the screen.
You don't have to get it in a crazy orange color.
If you get in a subtle color, no one's going to have any idea what this is.
It becomes a Malibu in traffic.
Nobody cares.
But then when you're on a back road, which is the problem.
Which is the problem.
But in your case, it might be an asset.
I mean, I would get it as crazy a color as possible and put some wheels on and I would
go nuts, but that's me.
I think that's not a Malibu.
Exactly.
That license plate says cop car, just to really free people out.
Exactly.
But the thing is here, this is so much better to drive than you think it is.
At the time, they were mentioning it as the Ford or Corvette and I said, we'll see about
that and got in it and went, no, you're kind of right.
So I think this is my favorite.
But then I have to not ignore the other one that's in this space and that is the Kia Stinger
GT.
Oh, that's good.
Oh, yeah.
Get this in rear-wheel drive with their automatic transmission.
It has a full hatch.
It's got big back seats.
That's really good.
So my two favorites are the Chevy SS or the Kia Stinger GT.
For you, both of those cars, I think are innocuous in traffic, luxurious enough when you
want to take the family somewhere or just your wife for a date night.
But yet, if you have the ability to just go on a canyon road, driving in fact, this car
is so much fun.
So those are my two tops.
One's for you, Rick.
I hope you like one of them.
I leaned more daily, but these are really fun on a back road.
Got good choices, Rick.
Thank you for writing.
And as you know, everyday drivertvadgmail.com, if you're just dropping a note, that's fine
too.
Everything does get read, whether we're able to respond or not, we wish we could do everybody's
car debates.
Thank you for all your debates.
We've asked for them.
Yeah.
And you have sent them.
You have been doing a great job.
I just want to encourage all of you, you're doing a great job.
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you for writing it up.
Thank you for listening.
We have great choices in here.
It's so much so many fun stories.
This thing, my favorite thing about the car debates, because we've been doing this for
more than 1,000 episodes out of this is 1,022.
By the way, at 1,025, we will do a live episode again.
So keep it in mind.
We'll keep doing that at the 25 intervals.
But I just, I love how varied the stories are and all of your personal things you bring
to it.
That's amazing.
We got a couple of car conclusions.
We're going to go quick.
First, Isaiah's writing in a couple of years ago, he wrote in and the result was that his
wife, that's what they were writing in for, got a Toyota GR86 and she loves it.
She loves it so much that he's a little bit jealous, but he ended up without a car watching
her enjoy her GR86.
But again, that's what she brought the Toyota GR86.
She got a free track day.
That's right.
It's NASA.
That's right.
They went and did that and enjoyed themselves like crazy.
But they thought they'd go back and here's where the story takes kind of a disappointing
turn for me because they just came to the Watkins Glen event in October when you and I were
there and we didn't get to see Isaiah and his wife.
I didn't even know how we didn't get that.
It was a huge event.
Huge kudos to Saunty and Cody up there in our northeast region for putting on an amazing
event that was well attended with a ton of cars.
So it's easy to get lost about event.
I'm sorry you didn't see us.
We would have loved to have said hi to you guys.
So keep keep in mind that as we mentioned, tracks we're going to go to.
If you're around any of you, if you're around and we're going to be at the event, please
say hello.
But you guys brought your GR86 to this HOD Watkins Glen event and you had an amazing day
and I'm thrilled.
I'm thrilled.
Your wife had a great instructor, which that's one of the big things we're known for.
Did a lot of really good laps.
But then her instructor took her for a ride in his car and they walked up to it and kind
of went, what?
It was an allotra in and they were like, my instructor drives an allotra in.
We're going to take this on track.
And she proceeded to be so blown away.
She said, you must get in my instructor's car, let him take you for a ride around watching
it.
It's so good.
And you probably see where this is going.
Isaiah needed a car and shortly about a week after that event bought himself an allotra
in.
Selling cars.
So good.
Yep.
Car conclusion number two comes to us from Matthew R. He dared us to challenge our advice
to not buy a car from a future, for a future situation.
Yes.
Apparently we were right.
What normally happens in Matthew's in this camp is either we're going to have kids in
the next five years or my child's going to be driving in the next five years.
So I'm buying a car for then and we always say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, buy a car
for now.
Yeah.
Matthew has a good friend who works for a network of Toyota dealerships and could get them
a nice discount.
So they started their search by test driving Rav4s and Highlanders.
Okay.
Fine.
Perfectly good.
It's enough for his wife.
So Matthew gently suggested the crowned Signia, somewhat to his surprise.
She fell in love with it and by the end of the weekend they drove home in a brand new
limited with the advanced technology package.
She is thrilled with the comfort quiet intuitive tech and great gas mileage.
But the real magic trick is that the crown is the car.
Matthew's always wanted since it was announced.
And because he always ends up inheriting his wife's old cars, he can enjoy driving the new
ride from time to time now and then having it to himself in five or six years.
And as for their son, he says he doesn't think his wife will ever let their son drive
this.
But they'll cross that bridge when they come to it.
He predicts a simple $10,000 used compact, Matthew, congratulations, congratulations to
your whole family.
I'm glad that you will inherit this soon.
And if your wife doesn't know that now, she, she's, well, she does not.
But I like the fact that the whole family is intrigued by it and he gets the hand me
down car.
So he knows the car that's coming for him when she moves on.
And I also like the fact that you bought it for right now.
And then quickly realized, yeah, he shouldn't be driving it anyway, which is kind of the conversations
we've had in my house.
So yeah, you got to, you got to get some of different car.
Yeah, wait till Toyota does something GR with this.
Maybe apply the GR sport.
We'll see.
We'll see.
We'll see.
Yeah, they're doing everything else.
It'd be good stuff.
Couple of social media questions here from Marcus Thomas here who is not afraid of a project.
He writes to us on Facebook.
He happily wrenches regularly, welding, wiring, tuning, doesn't matter.
He recently on Marketplace, he said an 88 Lotus Esprit showed up without an engine and
transmission.
He's looked at it in person and all but bought it.
His gut reaction is a turbo LS swap with the boxer six speed, but the LS seems pedestrian.
What might be an interesting non traditional engine that might fit the personality or even
add to it?
Well, but the problem with the Lotus Esprit is the fact that it had a non pedestrian, non-common
engine and therefore didn't run.
The LS might be exactly what it needs because then you get to have a car that runs and drives.
I mean, there was the Esprit V8.
Yes.
I don't know how reliable those were.
This has been the lowest problem prior to the Toyota Esprit V8s.
I'm not either but this was the the Lotus problem prior to the Toyota engine era is that
the engines were always just perfectly quirky for the car and then there were reliability
issues.
The Esprit was plagued with reliability issues.
I kind of feel like the LS might be exactly what the car needs.
If you can make the LS fit and the gearbox and everything work and whatever the wiring
is to talk to that engine so that the car runs, then the engine is just an LS and it's
going to run.
I also don't feel like you ever drove those Esprit's because have you heard how great this
engine sounds?
Not really.
You know, you drove the Esprit because it was the alt choice and hopefully eventually with
the V8s and some of the turbos, they got enough power to be worthwhile.
You're going to get roughly 400 horsepower in that car.
It'd be great.
I think the LS is exactly right, personally.
They're K-Swap.
They're K-Swap.
All right.
Keep it for cylinder and do the high revving K-Swap in that so it keeps Esprit for cylinder.
Get your 300-something horsepower out of it.
But again, I think I know the LS is, you know, you said pedestrian, but I just think it
would work and run and be good.
I mean, would.
You've got some exciting to do.
You've got some welding to do.
Yeah.
You do.
I'm a little terrified by that.
Bradley J. 1983 asks this question.
It could almost be a topic Tuesday, but I think I can do it rapid-fire.
Okay.
Good.
If we were in charge of a clean sheet Mustang, how would we design it?
He's thinking of wait no more than a career where we'll drive V8 behind the front axle,
target option, et cetera.
Now, first off, Bradley, I want to say the Mustang is one of those cars, unlike the Corvette
that cannot go mid-engine.
You think so?
Because the Corvette was existing.
I know it was a front-engine car forever and ever and ever, but it was always discussed
as next-gen we're going mid-engine.
Next-gen we're going mid-engine.
Oh, it had all the concepts early on before it even came out.
It was mid-engine.
There were so many.
Yeah.
So the fact that they went mid-engine, I know there's a segment of the populace, it's like
that's not a Corvette, but it was always a possibility.
The Mustang is a front-engine rear-drive car.
That's just what it is.
Even the Mustang too, it's still front-engine rear-drive, okay?
So you can't change that.
But I think the target, because look at the original Mustang, the 1964 and a half, 65 Mustang.
It was a small-ish car in the lineup.
It was actually kind of smaller.
Exactly.
And then going forward, it becomes the pony car, muscle car era, and the muscle car era.
If you had to define it, it was just, well, what's the biggest engine we sell and what's
the smallest body we make?
That's what we're doing.
That was the whole muscle car era, okay?
So what you need here is you need something around 400 horsepower.
What Ford engine is going to be around 400 horsepower?
And again, I would like for it to be a V8.
It needs to be a V8 option, but around 400 horsepower is enough, because the target size
needs to be GR86.
It needs to be that scale.
Do a Mustang too, without doing the Mustang too.
Yes, because that's the date.
Because people are going to say Mustang too.
Yes.
But now, in this era, we've got the tech to make it good.
Agreed.
And we also think that the flamboyant look of the Mustang GTD is really cool, because
you're starting with the GTD, you're starting to leave the retro styling that we reintroduced
in the early 2000s.
You're starting to get away from it with the GTD a little bit.
So what is the slightly more rounded off version of the GTD look?
I almost want to say the styling of the GTD mixed with the kind of boxy body panels of
the thinking of the DeLorean or that Hyundai concept that looks like the DeLorean, you
don't talk about the Hyundai 74 or something like that, where it's boxy, and yet it just
looks muscular.
I feel like that's what the GTD is starting to do.
Envisioned 74.
There you go.
There you go.
So I think that kind of influence from the DeLorean, that Hyundai, the GTD, that kind
of boxy styling on something the size of the GR86, because the GR86 is flowy.
So what's the boxy or version of that?
And it cannot weigh more than 3200 pounds.
So that'll undercut most everything else.
It does.
It weighs around the amount of a 9.11, but it needs to be that foreign and horsepower,
and it doesn't need to be luxurious.
It needs to be driver-focused, scaled down.
You think about it.
The GR86 is 75% scale of the current Mustang.
That's where it needs to be.
Yeah.
That's right.
And then you can get the dynamics right, and of course it's got to have independent rear
suspension on all the modern stuff in there.
You can have a really cool car that way.
It's Mustang 2, without being the Mustang 2.
Yes.
Mustang Top 4.
Call it the Mustang 3.
I see who freaks out.
All of the internet by the way.
It's something else, but it's now the lightweight, the good, the driver's car, the driver's
Mustang.
Yeah.
Guys, thank you so much for all of your questions.
Really, we're serious.
Topic Tuesdays, car debates, car conclusions, we want to hear it all, whatever's on your
mind.
Social media questions too, and I think we covered quite a few social media questions with
our concept car coverage from today's posting.
So thank you guys.
There's more there we can revisit.
So I'd love you guys.
Sure.
And then it's wonderful.
For sure.
Thank you again, and we're looking forward to the next time.
As always, cheers everyone.
About this episode
The latest episode dives into the buzz from the LA Auto Show, featuring discussions on new car reveals, including the Honda Prelude and Porsche Cayenne EV. The hosts explore the pricing dynamics of these vehicles, comparing them to competitors like the Civic Type R and Prius. They also debate the merits of the Prelude as a fun commuter car and the Cayenne's design evolution. Additionally, they touch on the Jeep Recon EV and Genesis's new Magma concept, highlighting the ongoing shift in the automotive landscape towards electric vehicles and unique styling.
aerodynamics
autobahn
belt line
Coke bottle shape
gas engine
horsepower
hybrid
inflation
internal combustion engine
launch control
Audi A7
Audi A8
Audi RS6 Avant
BMW 5 Series
BMW 6 Series
BMW 7 Series
BMW iX3 (G08)
BMW M2
Cadillac Escalade
Cadillac Seville
Chevrolet Corvette
Chevrolet Silverado
Chrysler PT Cruiser
Delorean DMC-12
Dodge Magnum
Ferrari 360
Ford Edge
Ford F-150
Ford Fiesta
Ford Mustang GTD
Genesis G70
Genesis G90
Genesis GV60
Genesis GV70
Honda Civic
Honda HR-V
Honda Prelude
Hummer EV SUV
Hyundai Elantra
Hyundai Genesis
Hyundai Palisade
Jeep Recon
Jeep Wrangler
Kia Stinger
Lexus GX
Lotus Emira
Lotus Esprit
Lucid Gravity
Maserati MC20
McLaren Artura
Mercedes-Benz S-Class
Porsche 911
Porsche 918 Spyder
Porsche 928
Porsche Cayenne
Porsche Cayman
Porsche Macan
Porsche Panamera
Rivian R1S
Rivian R1T
Tesla Model 3
Tesla Model Y
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Crown
Toyota Highlander
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota Mirai
Toyota Prius
Toyota RAV4
Toyota Sienna
Volvo S60
Original notes
The guys attend the 2025 LA Auto Show, and discuss concepts and production car announcements from many manufacturers. They debate flashy cars for Nicholas, who is young and rich and wants something to brag about. Then, Rick obsesses too much over his next decision, but ultimately wants a fun car for his growing family.
Audio-only MP3 is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and 10 other platforms.
Look for us on Tuesdays if you’d like to watch us debate, disagree and then go drive again!
00:00 - Intro
00:42 - Honda Prelude Price & First Impressions
07:28 - Porsche Cayenne EV Officially Announced
17:04 - Jeep Recon EV Revealed
23:30 - Genesis Magma Lineup
34:22 - Scout Terra & Traveler Up Close
41:16 - KIA Telluride In The Metal
42:14 - Nissan Suprises With Inexpensive Greatness
44:08 - Dodge Charger SixPack Is ENORMOUS
48:57 - Rivian R2 Is ‘Right-Sized’
50:01 - Corvette ZR-1X: An Imposing, Aggressive Presence
50:57 - Mustang GTD Is A Throwdown
51:26 - Hyundai CRATER Concept Needs To Be Built
54:38 - Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale Is Italian Sorbet For Your Eyes
55:21 - Hooked On Driving Nov / Dec 2025; Looking Ahead To 2026
57:51 - Car Debate #1: Young, Rich And Boastful
1:18:41 - Car Debate #2: Trying To Not Obsess
1:27:28 - Car Conclusion #1: Instructor Inadvertently Sells A Car
1:29:16 - Car Conclusion #2: Inheriting Your Wife’s Old Cars
1:31:06 - Audience Questions On Social Media
Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, and subscribe to our two YouTube channels. Write to us your Topic Tuesdays, Car Conclusions and those great Car Debates at [email protected] or everydaydriver.com
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