Exploring the significance of ASE certification, this episode features insights from Dave Johnson, president of ASE, and Tom Polermo, Apex 2025 Shop of the Year. They discuss how ASE-certified technicians demonstrate higher productivity and fewer comebacks, emphasizing the need for the industry to promote the value of certification to consumers. The conversation also touches on the evolving landscape of automotive repair, the importance of continuous education, and the role of ASE in enhancing technician credibility. Anecdotes about partnerships with organizations like the Secret Service highlight the certification's relevance in specialized fields.
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Recorded live at AAPEX 2025, ASE President Dave Johnson and AAPEX Shop of the Year winner Tom Palermo discuss the value, impact, and future of ASE certification. A major highlight: the U.S. Secret Service joined ASE on the AAPEX show floor, promoting technician careers and showcasing armored vehicles. Johnson notes that the Secret Service requires ASE certification for maintenance roles—proof that if it’s “good enough for the president’s car,” it matters for the whole industry.
Key topics include ASE’s updated test content based on real shop feedback, powerful data showing certification improves productivity and reduces comebacks and attrition, and the ongoing challenge of boosting consumer awareness. They also discuss increasing industry requirements for ASE, new certification efforts for Vehicle Security Specialists, and the continued push for professionalism in today’s high-tech automotive field.
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"And they keep thinking, well, hey, if it's good enough for the president's car, it might not be good enough for the consumers cars."
The president's car is a special, super‑strong vehicle that the country's leader drives. It has extra armor and security features to keep them safe.
The president's car refers to the specially equipped and heavily armored vehicle used by a nation's head of state for transportation, often called an 'Executive Limousine' or 'Presidential State Car'.
"[381.0s] Maybe they won't tell me, but I know how hard we work, but I know they work with the OEMs and all that. So GM told me today, I see."
GM stands for General Motors, a big company that makes many different cars and trucks in the United States.
General Motors (GM) is a major American automotive manufacturer that produces cars, trucks, and SUVs under brands such as Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, and Cadillac.
"As an example, engine overhaul and the ability to accurately measure cylinder bore."
Think of it like a full makeover for your car’s heart. All the parts that make the engine run are taken apart, checked for wear or damage, replaced if needed, and then put back together so the engine runs smoothly again.
An engine overhaul is a comprehensive rebuild of an internal combustion engine, involving disassembly, inspection, replacement or repair of worn components, and reassembly to restore performance and reliability.
"As an example, engine overhaul and the ability to accurately measure cylinder bore."
The cylinder bore is the hole inside each engine cylinder where the piston moves. Measuring it accurately helps mechanics know if the cylinders are too worn or still good, so they can decide what parts need fixing.
Measuring cylinder bore refers to determining the internal diameter of an engine’s cylinders, which is critical for assessing wear and ensuring proper piston fit during an overhaul.
"[1226.0s] And maybe they can't and maybe they can't the way you distinguish that ASC certification."
ASC certification is a badge that shows a mechanic has met certain training and testing standards, so customers can trust the shop’s work.
ASC stands for Automotive Service Excellence, a certification program that sets standards for automotive technicians and shops to ensure quality service.
"[1241.0s] I think the consumer is becoming aware of that now with EVs and the rest of all the telematics are in cars."
Telematics in cars means the car can send and receive data over networks, allowing things like GPS tracking, remote updates, and sometimes even controlling parts of the car via a phone.
Telematics refers to the integration of telecommunications and informatics in vehicles, enabling features like GPS navigation, remote diagnostics, and connectivity services.
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On the web at Pit Crew Loyalty.com. I'm here with two really incredible people can't wait to introduce. Well, I think you've seen Dave Johnson on my show before president of ASC. Hi Dave. Well, hi, Carm. Good to be here again. It's great. We're starting this episode late and it's because we have a too much fun talking about stuff. I also have Tom Polermo. Hi, Tom. Hey, Carm, pleasure to be here.
You winner of the apex 2025 shop of the year. Thank you very much. What did dad say about that? He thinks it's great. It was a surprise. Came out of nowhere. So anyway, this is how we kind of work around here, just to let you know, Dave was scheduled to be here. He was here on time. And Tom was in the room.
And we're going to talk this whole thing about ASC. Dave says, come on, Tom. Join us. I dragged him in. It's my fault. What the hell, but to do it. I mean, I know you're a big believer in ASC Tom. And of course, there's a lot going on with ASC. How long you've been president now? Two years, two years? Yeah. Is it rolling the way you want to get it rolling?
It is not as fast as I'd like it to be, but you know, any of us, I'm sure Tom's the same way with all he's doing with his shop and his business. You're always looking to do more. But no, directly, I like where we're going.
Cool. Tom's on the board, right? And so if Tom's happy, I'm happy. How are we?
Tom a happy guy, Dave. Okay. Dave's doing a fantastic job. At least to that. It's amazing how much is getting done.
Okay. That's got. Well, thank you guys for being here. It's been a pleasure.
Direct episode over.
Nothing more than we still have worked today. What is going on in your booths?
I saw yesterday, and he goes, we were trying to get the beast. Now, maybe that's a little clue is to what's going on?
Yes, the beast. And I think as many know, the beast is code language for the presidential and the scene.
And the plan was to have it here. But as you can imagine, with everything going on with government right now, and with the president, and they're everywhere.
And so it just wasn't able to work that one out. So US Secret Service. Yeah.
Were kind enough to join us at the show to promote careers within the US Secret Service, particularly as technicians in service professions, which is pretty cool.
So what they did then is they with their field office. They brought some vehicles in from the Las Vegas area got those on display. They're gorgeous.
They are armored vehicles. Those things are heavy. I got to open one of the doors. Feels like you're pushing about 200 pounds, which is probably about right. Just on the door.
Amazing stuff. That is amazing stuff. They brought their similar crack team in from DC to set it all up to run it to manage it. It's their baby. And we're just glad that they asked us to join it.
The reason though, you know, it's like why with ASE? Well, they require ASE certification just to be able to have a job with them and the maintenance area.
I joke about this a little bit, but it is kind of true. I say, what's cool about that? If I was 30 years younger, I'd be wanting this because I don't know if too many jobs where you get to hold a wrench in one hand and a firearm in the other.
Literally, you can do that. I'll send up. Yeah, right? And you can work your way into doing ball. Yeah, right? That's funny. You're halfway there. I've aged out a bit. So, you know, I'm out. So as we understood that and they've had struggles in the past of recruiting people that are qualified.
And so we're just working together to try to help them with their recruiting efforts for opportunities. You can imagine, I'm sure they get lots of submissions, but it's a pretty select group that you're going to work for. And so they can't just take anybody and ASE certification is part of that. We're proud of that.
And they keep thinking, well, hey, if it's good enough for the president's car, it might not be good enough for the consumers cars.
The entire industry to see maybe and or respect that. What are they doing for continuing education?
As far as they have specialists working on these vehicles in their garages, and that's why they want the ASE thing. Where are they continuing to educate?
So they contract with different contractors that they bring in. I don't know exactly who that is. I'll have to check that out.
Maybe they won't tell me, but I know how hard we work, but I know they work with the OEMs and all that. So GM told me today, I see.
So yes, they do a lot with GM, but there are others as well. I know that they may be going back to the manufacturer for training.
And of course these vehicles are a bit specialized as you can imagine, especially the beast.
I'm sure the upfitters get involved. Yes, you know, yes, you got upfitters involved as well.
It's cool, but the thing that's always struck me was it blew me away in it.
I shouldn't have. It's just they are absolutely. There's no exception.
Is your booth down here? Just garages it upstairs. We're downstairs. So we're not too far from here. In fact, the entrance to Joe's garage.
People come through. Right. I did see them coming in today. Yeah. Okay.
Those are just as you come into that entrance and I hang a little after a little bit.
Those are those black vehicles. Black suburban always damn. Very cool. It's a big ask. Come see.
You guys have been doing some survey and what's going on? I mean, what have you learning?
Well, we've learned a lot. You know, we went and did the industry survey on task lists.
And we did that use that to adjust the focus of questions in the task to make sure we're reflecting what's actually going on out there. Right. Right.
You may recall that we talked about there's things that we think you ought to know.
I'm going to throw Tom into this with me because I think he'll feel the same way.
As an example, engine overhaul and the ability to accurately measure cylinder bore.
For us guys, we'd like that's a no brainer. Everyone should know how to do that.
And there are questions on the test around those types of things around rebuilding the engine.
But as we did the survey, we've learned that sure enough, there's not as much engine rebuilding going on.
The engine repairer getting into the guts of it like there used to be, we need to recognize that.
That doesn't mean that your ability to measure the bore of a cylinder isn't still important.
Those are fundamentals that we believe you still need to know.
And that's what our subject matter experts say we need to have.
But you also have balanced that with the reality of not many people are doing it.
So we adjusted the questions in terms of the number of questions around some of those areas.
And that's coming out now.
I think Tom that that could be a specialty someday in general.
Well, that's kind of funny because we had the machine test before and that got tied that got discontinued years ago.
But the surveys have been pretty powerful.
And I could tell you, I was actually at a business development group meeting just last week.
Because there were some people that had some questions about ASC and what they can do to either renew their certifications or get certified.
And one of the reasons that they were asking these questions was they saw the surveys.
I haven't talked about this yet.
But I think the technicians are starting to see that, hey, ASC is paying attention.
They want to know what's going on out in the day every day.
And they want to know what I'm doing so that they can adjust the test according.
And I think that's powerful because that's I think this is the first time that's ever really happened.
So kudos to ASC for doing that.
But you're right out on the shop floor to use the engine repair example.
We're not measuring install valve spring height or anything like that.
It's those kind of items tend to be replaced, you know, the whole engine or so on or so on.
So the surveys have been super powerful.
And it's getting noticed. And I think technicians, they bring you guys.
Let's jump into the whole thing about how the consumer just doesn't have or see the value in ASC.
Because we haven't championed it as an industry or maybe we are still waiting for ASC to go on top of the mountain and say, you know, you have to have this.
I remember having a friend go to do an MRI.
And he wanted to be sure the certificates were up on the wall before he went in.
Ain't that interesting?
That is interesting. And you know, it's interesting that we've been having this conversation with Tom on the board as well.
When I came into this, I said, ASC just needs a few million dollars.
And we'll go do some Super Bowl ads.
And we're going to fix that awareness issue with the consumers.
That was the first question that came up at that BDG meeting I was at was, why doesn't ASC advertise more?
And I use the same example. It's funny. You're saying that I said, you know, Super Bowl.
It's tend to be a little pricey.
I would say that we are a choice of money.
Yeah. So they laughed at me.
And so we've been using, I think it was the gorilla tactics with social media.
And we've done streaming television.
So we have some ads out there.
We still have a long way to go and lay it at our own feet.
Yes, we do want the industry to promote this and say it's important.
But it starts with ASC, right? That's what we're chartered to do.
And so I can't work on that.
You just hit me over the head.
Why shouldn't there be a little mini streaming YouTube link?
Why shouldn't there be an ongoing ASE reason why to look for the certifications?
Listen, listen, they go to your shop and they go into your home page.
But somewhere down there, there needs to be an ASE reasoning at 30-second ban.
Do you have something like that he could do that with?
Well, yeah, actually that's some of the things we're working on.
Some, I think it was an ad spot with, well, say, bumpers that Tom can put on for his own shop.
We're used that others can do.
And so we're doing that.
But we're just getting started.
So the opportunity is there.
I think that it kind of falls on us too as shop owners to make sure we're educating a consumer
about why they want to go to a shop that has ASE certified technicians.
There's through things like the bumpers that he's talking about.
We have on our menu boards running on a loop.
So while there's if they are waiting for their card to be repaired, they can see it.
When they sit in my waiting room, I have everybody's ASEs out on the walls.
That has sparked a lot of conversations.
There have been people that have come to me or on my service advice and said,
hey, what are all these, that's great your certify book.
Can you tell me more about it?
And it gives us an opportunity to educate the consumer.
You know, through word of mouth, you know, organically, that will spread.
My friend brought beach owners place in Peoria a couple of weeks ago.
And I walk in and he's got these, if you will, picture frames.
But there's the ASE.
There's the picture of the specialist because that's he's re-language to shop.
And all of their certifications.
Liz Perkins came in here.
We were talking with Liz here in Keith Perkins's shop.
And she shows me all of the certifications up on the wall.
So that proud moment that many of our shop owners are into.
Why aren't we doing this more, Tom?
I mean, just think of the top 20% of the top shops in the US.
They're still not playing in that sandbox.
Come on, guys.
Wake up, let's start doing this.
I think people are starting to get on board a little bit more.
If you do any fleet work, there's a lot of fleet customers
that require you to have ASEs certified technicians in order to service their vehicles.
If you go for any government contracts, a lot of the time,
there's requirement for either a certain percentage to be ASEs certified
or a certain level of certification.
Even in Pennsylvania, the enhanced inspection.
Yes.
They added, not the state inspection, but the enhanced inspection,
which is for taking a reconstructed, of people that has a salvaged title
and converting it to a reconstructed title.
They now require that you have an ASE certification.
So I think the word is starting to spread and things are starting to happen.
And I think, to your point, Tom, ASE has responsibility there.
Again, it's a bit of a self-reinforcing cycle, right?
If ASE is presenting and just reminding, it's not like ASE in and of self-brains
has great value.
It's a symbol of something.
So for instance, reminding people that ASE certified tech
is based on what we've seen, right?
We have some studies, and it doesn't mean everyone's results are the same.
But things like one major study where 40% better productivity
certified versus non-certified.
That means something to Tom is a shop owner, right?
But then the next part means something to Tom and the customer,
which is 60% fewer comebacks.
That's great for everybody.
It is.
And then when you look at attrition, we get back to the shop owner
and to me it means something for the tech.
It says something about them, 30% less attrition.
And so, how do you help remind people that?
And that's why I say, Dave Johnson didn't do this or ASE.
It's reflection of the individual and what they're striving to do
and to be.
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Think about ASC as a talking point from a service advisor to a client.
What just hit me so hard was we almost need to corral
all of the service advisor trainers, all the coaches that
it's the biggest thing in training and continuing education right now
and in practice and in AI phone call listening study
and all that stuff that's going on.
And when we tell an individual that our technology specials
to be all over that check engine light and all by the way,
he or she is an ASC certified, pick the name, pick with the following
sentence so that individual client not only walks away knowing
I'm in good hands with all state things.
But I've also learned something else about this shop
having these people that are certified.
I mean, it's like right there and we're just not doing anything with it.
It is. Well, I think part of us we haven't spoken about it in years in a meaningful way.
You don't turn that around overnight.
But I think as Tom mentioned that we see results, we're seeing things happen.
And part of that is it's been interesting over the past 12 months.
Carl, we have so many people wanting to partner with us
on talking about and promoting ASC and how working with ASC
could help their business.
So obviously there's the shops but other businesses and entities
in the industry that recognize that hey,
there's something going on at ASC, something different.
And again, it's for me, it's just reminding people what was already there.
And I think we're starting to see that.
And now people want to be part of this.
And hey, we're on a journey here, but we're seeing it come.
I like that journey.
I think ASC has been obviously inside the industry has been well known
and everybody understands the power of it.
But I think today's point is 100% right.
We now have people that are coming in contact with more outside of the industry people
that want to partner with ASC.
And that's I think where running a Super Bowl at is great.
But I think that's where we'll get a lot of traction and really be able to spread the word
and get things out there and get to consumer or where.
We almost have to change it at the educational level, Dave.
Well, that's absolutely right.
I can't imagine what's the talking point to a young student who's coming
into the educational process of our industry, high school and or college.
What do we tell them that they need to be striving for?
Here's my thoughts.
And there's lots of ways you can approach this.
I'm sure.
But the one that always comes to me is talking to a student.
Everyone can relate to you.
Do you want to go to a dentist who isn't certified?
Do you want to go to a doctor that hasn't been board certified?
Why would you do that?
Right.
And why should a consumer that has a vehicle that their safety and security is in your hands?
Why would they want something different?
It just doesn't make sense when you think about it that way.
We've got to help to instill that and help people remind people of that that the fact is
anybody in the country can pick up a ranch today and declare I'm a technician and I can fix your car.
And maybe they can't and maybe they can't the way you distinguish that ASC certification.
I agree 100%.
I think the day is of just being able to use your terminology just to pick up a ranch and start working on vehicles.
They're too sophisticated.
There's too much going on.
I think the consumer is becoming aware of that now with EVs and the rest of all the telematics are in cars.
I think they're starting to get the picture.
So I think that they're starting to look for more ways to ensure that when they bring a vehicle to somebody
it's getting served by a prop professional.
And even as a simple example that crime you were there yesterday at the NASDAF meeting.
To think of these professionals, you know, traditional column locksmiths.
But I think of them as vehicle security specialists.
Yeah.
And we started these discussions last year with NASDAF and their team.
They want that as an organization because to Tom's point,
just the security systems on the vehicles have become so much more complex over the years that you can't be any run of the mail locksmith.
And do this and do it right consistently across multiple vehicle brands because they are so different and so complex.
I learned something yesterday that I did not know about it.
I think it was John from GM says yeah, it takes two hours.
That was just mind blowing that you cannot reprogram the car so that maybe some of the thieves that were trying to do it were just finally left.
That's right.
It's just all about the other thing that it was a big takeaway for me yesterday.
Guys was 11,000 vehicle service professionals.
They call them VSPs.
I believe at NASDAF out of what we have five, six hundred thousand people that are professionals in our industry.
And so we have some room there.
And then it goes back to my crazy thinking on social media where, you know, everybody's they get a negative rant on value of ASC.
And there's nobody that believes in it that's fighting back.
And so the person who says, you know, maybe I should go for my VSPs and then they find this crazy threat going on.
And this is, nobody thinks it's important.
Who's the nobody that thinks it's important?
Right.
That's what I want to know.
It seems to be hard to identify them as individuals.
Yeah.
It's called vetting.
It's called vetting.
He's just a good test jaker.
And look, I'll be the first to acknowledge ASC's not perfect.
And taking tests can be a miserable thing.
Well, we got to get behind it as an industry.
That's why I don't throw away the thing that actually is supporting what you want to be.
What you say you want to be.
The level of professionalism that helps to help make it better.
Please, that's great.
But complaining never fixed anything.
Right.
I want to put that on the wall.
Yeah.
I mean, and that's the thing is, as somebody that I've dealt with those objections before,
and I've always been able to overcome them by showing them the value through,
whether it's shopping or through the data that they've just gave us.
We're just a pride part of it.
The people that are in this industry that are working on vehicles,
they're proud of what they do.
Yeah.
And it's a great way to show where you are as a technician and what your skill is.
I look at, we're up against the hard stops.
So tell me, I want to ask you a question.
I want to give you the final word, Dave.
Yeah.
What percentage of your people, Tom, in the shop are ASC certified?
Currently I'm at 78%.
78% got masters.
Yes, I did.
How many?
One.
Well, and not including myself.
Not including yourself.
He's all that way.
Yeah.
Okay.
So my two technically.
So because we have that information, Dave, my question to you is,
speak to the industry.
Tell them why it's important.
Yeah.
So look, it's important for a number of reasons.
But I think one of those is for yourself.
And I'm going to maybe speak to the technician side of this.
So already rattled off some of those numbers, right?
Think about what that means.
That 40% productivity, 60% less come back, 30% less attrition.
What does that mean to you as a business?
Now as an individual, as a technician,
I thought about this just the other day.
How much does a technician spend a month on the snap on truck
or whatever their favorite tool of choice is?
You ask them, why do they do it?
Why did you do that?
Well, because it's going to make me more productive.
I'm going to be better.
I'm going to be able to fix customers cars better.
It's not just because it was awesome and cool and I wanted it.
Not maybe the case at least for me.
I find all the rationalizations later.
But it's cool and I wanted it.
But there's reality in that, right?
You buy a tool or piece of equipment to make you more efficient.
That ASC certification is a different version of the same thing.
It's just another tool in your toolbox that helps to make you more productive,
more efficient, a better technician.
You know, you can argue about that all day long.
But those numbers don't really lie.
The scope and scale.
Yeah, they may be different depending on who you are.
But it says something about that individual and the investment.
Maybe not in money, but in time, effort and education to become that tool.
Thank you.
Here's what I wrote down because I'm always writing down things that flow through my head
because I can't remember them from four seconds.
And here's what I was the only one.
So look, here's what I wrote down.
I wrote down pride to be proud of having these certifications of taking the testing.
And if not continuing to take the testing, you get to a master level.
And the other thing I wrote down was the ownership of my continuing education
because if you commit it to that, you talk to teach, you share.
Sooner later, the AC tests are easy and no brainier stuff.
That personally, it's not the world.
It's working.
I'm in this very professional career.
We're in a high tech industry. Let's realize that.
This is computer science class stuff that we're doing.
And no one would have thought back in the day that we'd be here in such a high tech career.
I mean, really calm when you think about it, we've gone from blinking codes in the mid-80s.
Morse code to Wi-Fi in course and self-driving and EV and all that.
And over the span of, you know, 40 years, you're 100% right.
No one would have ever seen this coming.
And it's only going to continue to grow from here.
Mind blowing.
I'm getting you out in time.
Well, and I'm sorry. I'm happy to come back again.
I don't want to put in what plug for one thing.
Please stop by and see our secret service friends at the booth.
They are fantastic guys. Those guys work their tails off.
They serve.
And you think about even at that technician level, everything is about the safety and protection of others.
Awesome guys.
Stop by and say hi.
Dave Johnson, president ASE.
Thank you. Thank you.
As always, Tom Palermo, the Apex 2025 shop owner of the year.
Thanks, guys.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Thanks for being on board to listen and learn from the premiere automotive repair business podcast.
Remarkable results radio.
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Carm is all for advancing the professional automotive service industry.
Until next time.
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