The Truth About Diesel Pistons: Cast vs Forged, Bowl Design, and What to Run in Your Build
About this episode
The Power Driven Podcast dives deep into diesel piston design—why the combustion chamber (piston bowl) matters for mixing, emissions, smoke, and idle quality. The hosts compare narrow vs wide bowl (re-entrant vs non re-entrant) and explain tuning concepts like injection timing splits around top dead center. They argue narrow bowls typically run cleaner and are more robust for street/over-the-road builds, while wide bowls can make more fuel-only power in specific racing classes. The discussion also covers cast vs forged vs steel pistons, piston-to-wall clearance, keystone rings, and why forged pistons often hurt mileage and oil consumption on street engines.
Pistons are one of those parts everybody installs but not everybody actually understands. Todd, Will, and Myer break down piston design from top to bottom, and if you have ever wondered why there are so many options or which one belongs in your build, this is the episode you need.
They start with piston bowl design and why it matters more than most guys think. Narrow bowl versus wide bowl, reentrant versus non-reentrant, and how each design affects the way fuel and air mix inside a diesel cylinder. Because diesels fire fuel directly into that bowl at the very end of the compression stroke, bowl geometry has a direct impact on combustion quality, smoke, and power output in a way gasoline engines never have to deal with. Swirl numbers get covered too, and why that circular mixing motion plays a bigger role in emissions and haze than it does in outright peak power.
The conversation moves through piston options platform by platform. Common rail, 24 valve, VP44, and 12 valve all get their own breakdown. The guys talk about why they almost always steer people toward a narrow bowl for over-the-road use, but also when a wide bowl makes sense, like sled pulling and nitrous-limited classes where you are chasing every last horsepower.
Cast versus forged is a big chunk of this episode and the guys do not sugarcoat it. Forged pistons are stronger and handle RPM abuse better, but the increased wall clearance required, the wear characteristics, and the oil ring differences make them a poor choice for anything that sees regular street miles. They even mention their factory 6.7 cast pistons surviving a truck that averages 2200 horsepower down the track, and what that says about how capable a properly built cast piston really is.
The 12 valve guys get their section too. Stock pistons, the early first gen wider bowl swap, and why the shop has largely moved away from recommending low compression pistons now that six seven blocks are the go-to platform for high-output Cummins builds.
Piston coatings and cylinder honing round out the episode. The guys cover their coating experiments on Myer's race truck, what coatings can and cannot protect against, and why proper piston wall clearance is still the thing that determines whether any of it survives.
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pistons
"Today we're going to talk about pistons, fat pistons, white pistons, narrow pistons, forged pistons, piston bull design. If you have a question about pistons, we're here for you."
A piston is the part that moves up and down inside the engine cylinder. When fuel burns, it pushes the piston, and that motion turns the crankshaft to make power.
Pistons are the reciprocating parts inside an engine’s cylinders that transfer combustion pressure into crankshaft rotation. In diesel builds, piston choice strongly affects how much cylinder pressure the engine can safely handle.
engine rebuild
"Now, a lot of people, their trucks are getting higher mileage and they need to refresh or rebuild their engine. So we get a lot of questions."
An engine rebuild is when you take the engine apart and replace worn parts so it runs like it should again. People do it when mileage or wear makes the engine less reliable.
An engine rebuild typically means disassembling the engine and replacing worn components to restore compression and reliability. In diesel circles, rebuild decisions often hinge on wear condition and whether the goal is stock reliability or higher power.
bottom end build
"And so a lot of guys are if they're coming from the other performance world, in the diesel, they think they need to build the bottom end because they're going to turn up the power. So we're going to answer all those questions today."
A “bottom end” build focuses on the lower rotating assembly (crankshaft, connecting rods, and pistons) to increase strength for higher power. The episode frames a common misconception: that you must always build the bottom end when you turn up diesel power, when the right piston choice and application matter more.
piston bull design
"Like, I mean, I think we should start with a fact of like piston bull design. There's lots of different designs. You can get, you know, 12 valve, 24 valve, you know, common rail stuff."
The piston has a little “cup” on top where combustion happens. That cup shape matters because it helps the fuel burn the right way, which affects power and how smooth the engine runs.
“Piston bowl design” refers to the shape of the combustion bowl in the piston crown, which influences how air and fuel mix and how efficiently the engine burns. In diesels, bowl geometry is closely tied to injector spray pattern and combustion characteristics, affecting power, noise, and emissions.
24 valve
"There's lots of different designs. You can get, you know, 12 valve, 24 valve, you know, common rail stuff. They have different designs."
“24 valve” means the engine has more valves than a 12-valve setup. More valves can help the engine breathe and run differently, so piston and combustion parts may need to match that design.
“24 valve” refers to a diesel engine head configuration with 24 total valves (often 4 valves per cylinder on a multi-cylinder engine). Higher valve counts typically come with different airflow and fuel-control strategies, which can influence piston bowl design and matching parts.
direct injection
"On a diesel, they're direct injected. And so the air comes in the chamber. It's in there and you inject the fuel into it."
With direct injection, the fuel is sprayed right into the engine’s burning area. That helps the engine control the burn more accurately, which can improve power and fuel economy.
Direct injection means the diesel injects fuel straight into the combustion chamber (rather than into the intake port). That lets the engine precisely control where and when the fuel burns, which strongly affects efficiency and emissions.
Cummins
"They've changed the design of the bull quite a bit on Cummins, Powerstroke, Duramax, all of them. Mercedes, TDI, Volkswagen, all of them have changed over the years, depending on what's happened."
Cummins builds diesel engines, especially for trucks. The host is saying their diesel combustion design has evolved over the years to meet changing emissions rules.
Cummins is a major diesel engine maker known for heavy-duty inline-six platforms used in trucks. The episode notes that Cummins changed combustion-bowl/head design over time, largely driven by injection system and emissions requirements.
Duramax
"They've changed the design of the bull quite a bit on Cummins, Powerstroke, Duramax, all of them. Mercedes, TDI, Volkswagen, all of them have changed over the years, depending on what's happened."
Duramax is GM’s diesel engine line. The host is saying GM changed the shape of the combustion area in the piston over the years so the engine burns fuel more cleanly and efficiently.
Duramax is General Motors’ diesel engine family (most famously in Chevrolet/GMC heavy-duty trucks). The discussion highlights that GM also revised combustion-bowl design over time to match changes in injection pressure and emissions-era calibration.
Powerstroke
"They've changed the design of the bull quite a bit on Cummins, Powerstroke, Duramax, all of them. Mercedes, TDI, Volkswagen, all of them have changed over the years, depending on what's happened."
Powerstroke is Ford’s diesel engine family. The point here is that Ford’s diesel combustion design has been updated over time to meet emissions and improve how the fuel burns.
Powerstroke refers to Ford’s diesel engine line (commonly associated with the brand’s heavy-duty trucks). The episode frames it as part of the broader trend: diesel combustion-bowl designs changed as injection systems and emissions targets evolved.
TDI
"Mercedes, TDI, Volkswagen, all of them have changed over the years, depending on what's happened. But the reason that it's there is because that's where the fuel and the air mix and that's what controls the burn characteristics of the engine."
TDI is Volkswagen’s diesel technology branding. In this segment, it’s used to illustrate that even within the same general diesel concept, manufacturers altered combustion-chamber/bowl design as injection systems and emissions requirements changed.
Mercedes
"Mercedes, TDI, Volkswagen, all of them have changed over the years, depending on what's happened. But the reason that it's there is because that's where the fuel and the air mix and that's what controls the burn characteristics of the engine."
Mercedes is mentioned as another diesel manufacturer that changed combustion design over time. The underlying idea is that bowl/head geometry and injection strategy evolve across brands as emissions regulations tighten.
combustion chamber location (piston vs head)
"Like we don't even think about it like to me, the opposite would be weird. But I still run into people that don't realize that a Cummins head and most diesel heads are completely flat. There's no chamber in the head. It's all in the piston."
The episode contrasts diesel designs where the combustion chamber is largely in the piston (with a flat cylinder head) versus designs where the chamber is in the head. This “flip-flop” affects airflow, valve placement, and how engineers package the engine for performance and emissions.
bigger valves because of angled valve placement
"And that is a benefit in the gas rule in that you can put bigger valves because the valves come in at an angle you have more surface area to work with."
The host claims that with the diesel’s combustion-chamber packaging (piston-based chamber and flat head), valve angles allow larger valves and more effective flow area. In general, valve size and angle influence how well the engine breathes, which can improve combustion efficiency and power potential.
diesels have much smaller valves for a given cubic inch
"And that is a big limitation the diesel has, [154.0s] is that's why diesels have much smaller valves for a given cubic inch [157.1s] because they don't have the surface area to work with"
Diesel engines don’t breathe and burn fuel the same way as gas engines. Because of that, they can get away with smaller valves since the fuel-injection and in-cylinder mixing do a lot of the work. It’s a design tradeoff, not a simple “bigger is better” rule.
Diesel engines often use smaller valves than gasoline engines for the same engine displacement because the airflow and combustion strategy are different. Diesel combustion relies heavily on how fuel is injected and mixed inside the cylinder, so valve size is only one part of the overall airflow-and-mixing equation.
diesel piston bowl
"Gas head, they have a chamber [168.6s] and tons of chamber designs, what the application is, emission standards, [173.8s] whatever the chamber of a diesel is in the piston in the bowl."
In many diesel engines, the piston crown includes a bowl-shaped cavity that helps capture the injected fuel and promote mixing with air. Bowl geometry (depth, width, and shape) strongly influences swirl, fuel distribution, and combustion quality, which is why different “bowl styles” exist for different engine targets like emissions and efficiency.
fuel injector
"at least partially [179.0s] because the diesel engine throws fuel from from the injector [186.1s] and it shoots it downwards into the chamber"
The fuel injector is what sprays diesel fuel into the cylinder. Because diesel doesn’t use a spark like gasoline, the injector’s spray pattern and timing are crucial for getting the fuel to mix with air and burn properly. That’s why injector behavior and piston bowl shape are linked.
A diesel fuel injector sprays fuel into the cylinder at high pressure. The spray direction and timing matter because the fuel must reach the piston bowl and mix with air while the piston is moving, which affects combustion efficiency and emissions.
intake charge
"Gas obviously comes in with the intake charge. [193.6s] They don't really care where that chamber is and how it works necessarily"
The intake charge is what the engine pulls into the cylinder during the intake stroke. In gasoline engines it’s often a more ready-to-burn mixture, while diesels bring in mostly air and then add fuel later by injection. That’s why the “mixing job” is different between gas and diesel.
The intake charge is the mixture of air (and, in gasoline engines, fuel vapor) that enters the cylinder during the intake stroke. Gasoline engines typically rely on a more homogeneous mixture formed before combustion, while diesels inject fuel directly and depend more on in-cylinder mixing created by bowl and spray interaction.
swirl around, mix up and burn in
"we're shooting fuel into the cylinder while that pistons coming up, [204.5s] we need a nice deep chamber for that fuel to go in, swirl around, mix up and burn in."
Diesel needs good mixing inside the cylinder. The fuel has to break up and spread out so it can mix with air and burn efficiently. Bowl shape and spray direction help create that swirling motion.
Diesel combustion depends on in-cylinder mixing: injected fuel must disperse and mix with air quickly enough to burn efficiently. Piston bowl design and spray targeting create turbulence and swirl, which helps the fuel atomize, mix, and ignite consistently.
mixing action
"We talked about mixing action where gasoline, the fuel and air in general... That mixing action has to happen in the piston bowl... When the injector is only open for a little bit of time, you don't have all the turbulence is going on."
Mixing action is how well the fuel and air get blended together. If they mix well, the diesel burns more completely, which usually means less smoke and better response.
Mixing action is how effectively fuel and air combine before and during combustion. In diesel builds, mixing is influenced by piston bowl shape, cylinder head swirl, injector spray duration, and boost/air motion, and it affects smoke/PM and throttle response.
swirl numbers
"That's why we talk a lot about swirl numbers is that as that our cylinder heads, we want the head to swirl, get that circular motion... So it's it helps mix the fuel and air."
Swirl is the spinning motion of air inside the cylinder. “Swirl numbers” are a way to describe how much that spinning happens, and more swirl usually helps the fuel mix better so you get less smoke and better drivability.
“Swirl numbers” refer to how strongly the intake charge is made to rotate (swirl) inside the cylinder. Higher swirl can improve fuel-air mixing in diesel combustion, which helps reduce smoke and improve idle quality and throttle response, even if peak power isn’t the only goal.
throttle response
"Not so much for peak power, but for like emissions and smoke and idle haze, throttle response, like difference peak power."
Throttle response is how quickly the truck feels like it reacts when you press the pedal. If the fuel-air mixing is better, the engine tends to respond more cleanly and quickly.
Throttle response in diesel tuning is how quickly the engine responds to pedal input with the expected torque. Combustion quality and mixing (swirl, piston bowl, and injection strategy) strongly influence response, especially during transients where emissions and smoke can spike.
PM
"It's not really full boost, full load, higher PM... There's so much like your mixture action going on there... at high boost."
PM is basically soot/smoke particles from incomplete burning. When the engine mixes fuel and air better, it tends to make less PM.
PM typically means particulate matter—tiny soot particles formed when diesel combustion isn’t fully complete. Better fuel-air mixing (swirl, piston bowl design, and injection strategy) can reduce PM, especially under conditions like idle, light load, or transient throttle.
injector is only open for a little bit of time
"When the injector is only open for a little bit of time, you don't have all the turbulence is going on. You're really relying on the swirl of the head and a good piston bowl to help get everything mixed up."
Injector open time is how long the diesel nozzle sprays fuel. If it sprays for a shorter time, you may get less “help” from the spray to mix the fuel, so the cylinder’s swirl and piston shape matter more.
Injector open time (how long the injector sprays) changes how much fuel is delivered and how the spray interacts with the in-cylinder air motion. Shorter injection events can reduce the turbulence created by the spray itself, making swirl and piston bowl design more important for mixing.
EcoBoost engine
"Recently, we were playing with like a EcoBoost engine had the heads off. And I noticed that they have a little bowl in the piston now, kind of a little bowl."
EcoBoost is Ford’s name for a turbo gas engine. It’s designed to make good power while using less fuel, and it can use direct injection—meaning fuel is sprayed directly into the cylinder.
“EcoBoost” is Ford’s branding for turbocharged, direct-injected gasoline engines. In this segment, the host is using an EcoBoost engine as an example to compare piston bowl/chamber design across diesel and modern gasoline direct injection.
diesel bowl
"And I noticed that they have a little bowl in the piston now, kind of a little bowl. It's not like a diesel bowl, but it definitely has its own little chamber."
A “diesel bowl” refers to the piston crown bowl/combustion chamber geometry used in many diesel engines to shape airflow and fuel spray for reliable ignition. The host is contrasting diesel piston bowl design with newer gasoline engines that are adding similar piston bowl features due to direct injection and boosting.
common road
"So let's go common road. One of the things like you may have read or heard is entrant versus non re-entrant. This is the most stupid terms in technology is like non re-entrant versus entrant."
This is referring to “Common Rail,” a modern diesel fuel system. Instead of each injector making its own pressure, a shared high-pressure line feeds the injectors so the engine can inject fuel more precisely.
“Common road” is almost certainly a mishearing of “Common Rail,” which is a diesel fuel system architecture. Common-rail systems use a high-pressure fuel rail to supply injectors with consistent pressure, enabling precise injection timing and spray control—key for modern diesel combustion and piston bowl design discussions.
non re-entrant vs entrant
"One of the things like you may have read or heard is entrant versus non re-entrant. This is the most stupid terms in technology is like non re-entrant versus entrant."
This is about the shape of the combustion chamber. Different shapes change how air moves and how the fuel mixes, which can affect how smoothly the diesel runs and how clean it burns.
“Re-entrant” vs “non re-entrant” describes the shape of the combustion chamber/insert used in some diesel piston or head designs. The geometry affects how the fuel spray and air swirl interact, which can change emissions, noise, and how well the engine tolerates different operating conditions.
re-entrant bowl
"I'm pretty sure the re-entrant is so re-entrant is non re-entrant is where it goes into the middle and goes out re-entrant is where it goes out. And it re-enters the bowl."
On a diesel piston, the top has a “bowl” where fuel sprays and burns. A re-entrant bowl is shaped like it dips in and then comes back out, which helps the fuel and air mix better so it burns more cleanly.
A re-entrant diesel piston bowl is shaped so the combustion chamber “steps back” into the piston, creating a more complex flow path. That geometry helps promote air/fuel mixing and can improve combustion efficiency and emissions compared with simpler bowl shapes.
QSP
"Then you have your QSP, which is your wide bowl. And that's your 05 or 0407. And then you're off highway six, seven stuff."
QSP here refers to a wide-bowl piston meant more for off-road work. The wider bowl changes how the fuel and air swirl together, which can help under tough conditions even if it’s not as focused on street cleanliness.
QSP is used here as shorthand for a “wide bowl” piston intended for off-road applications. Wide-bowl designs typically prioritize fuel-air mixing and combustion behavior under heavy load or different operating conditions, which can trade off street cleanliness for performance.
ISB
"The way I call it is there's an ISB and a QSP. ISB is your over the road narrow bowl piston. Like on your six sevenths, that's your narrow bowl."
ISB here means a narrow-bowl piston meant for highway/road use. The bowl shape helps the diesel fuel mix with air in a way that usually makes the engine burn cleaner during normal driving.
ISB is used here as shorthand for an “over the road” narrow-bowl piston. Narrow-bowl designs generally aim for cleaner combustion on-road by shaping in-cylinder flow to improve mixing and reduce soot.
swirl through the bowl
"Generally speaking... when the fuel goes in, it's basically you're trying to decide how it's going to swirl through the bowl. Is it going to swirl from the inside going out? Is it going to swirl from the outside going in..."
In a diesel, the piston bowl helps create a swirling motion of air. That swirl direction and strength determine how well the fuel mixes, which can change how cleanly the engine burns.
Diesel piston bowl geometry strongly influences swirl—how air moves in the chamber—and therefore how fuel mixes with air. The discussion focuses on whether swirl is driven from the inside outward or outside inward, which affects combustion completeness and soot formation.
common rails
"as far as what piston I would do, that one's a really easy one for me on the six or on your common rails. The narrow bowl to me is just it's so much better for clean cleanliness on the street."
Common-rail is a modern diesel fuel system where fuel pressure is stored in a shared “rail” and injected electronically. Because injection is more precise, the piston bowl shape and airflow swirl matter a lot for how cleanly the diesel burns.
Common-rail refers to a diesel fuel system where fuel is pressurized in a shared rail and delivered to the injectors electronically. This system can support more precise injection timing and multiple injection events, which makes piston bowl design and swirl especially important for controlling soot and combustion quality.
nitrous hits
"I will basically always recommend it for big nitrous hits. They they're a little bit thicker on the outside, so they're less likely to crack."
Nitrous oxide is a chemical you can inject into the engine to make it produce extra power. It’s like a temporary boost because it helps the engine burn more fuel. Because it makes the engine work harder, the engine parts need to handle the extra stress.
“Nitrous hits” refers to using nitrous oxide injection to temporarily add oxygen to the intake charge. That lets an engine burn more fuel and make a big power increase for short bursts. It also increases cylinder pressure and heat, so piston strength and fuel/air control matter a lot.
white bowl
"I know some people will disagree with that and say like the white bowl is actually the greatest and everyone has their opinion."
“White bowl” sounds like a nickname for a particular piston top shape used in diesel builds. Different bowl shapes can change how the engine burns fuel. The host is saying some people swear by that design, but their results may depend on how they set up fueling.
“White bowl” is a shorthand used in diesel performance circles for a specific piston bowl design (often associated with a particular manufacturer/variant). The speaker contrasts it with the “wide bowl” and says some builders prefer the white-bowl approach. They also tie the disagreement to different fueling strategies, like using larger injectors.
top dead center
"And the reason the wide bowl is not as ideal is because it doesn't ultimately want to be injected over top dead center. ... running a narrow bowl, that that bowl design loves to be injected across top dead center. And it just, it just runs cleaner."
Top dead center is the moment when the piston is at the very top of its travel. When diesel fuel is injected before or after that point, it changes how smoothly the engine burns. In this segment, they’re saying some piston bowl shapes work best with fuel injected right around that top position.
“Top dead center” (TDC) is the crankshaft position where the piston is at its highest point in the cylinder. For diesel injection, the timing of when fuel is injected relative to TDC strongly affects combustion quality, noise, and efficiency. The segment argues that wide-bowl pistons don’t want fuel injected over TDC, while narrow-bowl designs “love” injection across TDC for cleaner running.
injection timing vs piston bowl geometry
"And the reason the wide bowl is not as ideal is because it doesn't ultimately want to be injected over top dead center. ... running a narrow bowl, that that bowl design loves to be injected across top dead center. And it just, it just runs cleaner."
It’s not just the piston shape or just the fuel timing—both have to work together. The piston bowl helps control how the fuel mixes and burns, and the timing of when fuel is injected changes that mixing. If they don’t match, the engine can run dirtier or make less power.
This segment is really about the interaction between diesel injection timing and piston combustion-bowl shape. Bowl geometry changes how the spray and air motion create a combustible mixture, so the “best” injection strategy depends on the piston design. That’s why the host says wide-bowl designs are less ideal when injection overlaps TDC, while narrow bowls can run cleaner with injection across TDC.
split injection (80/20 split, 50/50 split)
"Now in the common old world, they call a split, like I run a 80, 20 split or a 50, 50 split. And that's like how much before top dead center comes up. And then 20% of your time is after top dead center and you run a split."
A split injection means the engine sprays fuel in two stages instead of all at once. For example, “80/20” means most of the fuel is injected before the piston reaches its highest point, and the rest is injected after. That helps the engine burn fuel more smoothly and can reduce smoke.
A “split” refers to dividing diesel fuel injection into two portions—some before TDC and the remainder after TDC. The numbers (like 80/20 or 50/50) describe the percentage of injection event occurring in each window. This approach can improve combustion control, emissions, and drivability compared with a single-shot injection strategy.
Toyota A80
"That's like older, older thinking. Now in the common old world, they call a split, like I run a 80, 20 split or a 50, 50 split."
The Toyota Supra is a sports car built for speed and driving fun. People talk about it a lot because it’s popular with car enthusiasts who like to modify and tune cars. When it’s mentioned alongside “split” ideas, it usually means different ways of setting up how power or traction is handled.
The Toyota Supra is a performance sports car known for its strong engine and enthusiast following. It often comes up in discussions about how people think about drivetrains and setups, including how different “splits” or configurations affect performance and feel. In a podcast, it’s a common reference point for older performance-car thinking and how modern approaches compare.
wide bowl piston
"So what he's saying, like this, the wide bowl, if you have to run a split where you're injecting across as a pistons coming all the way up and going back down, you're injecting that window, you're going to have some nasty haze and things like that..."
The “bowl” is the shaped recess in the piston crown that helps direct airflow and fuel spray for diesel combustion. A “wide bowl” changes how the injected fuel mixes as the piston moves, which can affect smoke/haze and combustion stability. The segment suggests that when you use split injection with a wide bowl, you may see more visible haze under high power.
break specific fuel consumption (BSFC)
"...there's a fuel economy advantage that they found on, because if they had a more efficient engine application, that they could advertise better break specific fuel consumption for a fire pump or for a fertilizer..."
BSFC is basically a “miles-per-gallon” style number, but for engines: it tells you how much fuel you burn to make a certain amount of power. Lower BSFC means better efficiency. The hosts are saying factories might pick piston and combustion designs to hit better BSFC numbers for certain equipment.
Break specific fuel consumption (BSFC) is a measure of how efficiently an engine uses fuel to produce power, typically expressed as fuel per unit of power over time. The segment argues that manufacturers may choose combustion designs (like bowl shape and injection strategy) to improve BSFC for marketing and regulatory targets. It also mentions that stationary applications (fire pumps, generators, fertilizer equipment) may prioritize efficiency differently.
piston bowl design tradeoffs for RPM range and emissions
"And so traditionally those, those marine bowl or wider bowl pistons or non re-entrant depends on which generation of vehicle. There is a, you could say a slight performance or economy advantage... I don't know if there's a better thing. It's just something to think about to hypothesize."
Diesel piston bowl design is a balancing act between combustion efficiency, performance, and emissions compliance. Bowl shape can favor either a narrow RPM band (better transient behavior) or steady RPM operation (better long-duration efficiency), while emissions requirements constrain the final design.
narrow bowl
"You feel that perhaps the narrow bowl is better for a varying RPM band or the wide bowl, maybe better for like your generator, your boats, things that can operate at a constant RPM for a long period of time."
A “narrow bowl” means the diesel’s top-pocket is smaller and more focused. That can help the engine burn fuel more consistently when you’re not just holding one steady RPM.
A narrow diesel piston bowl concentrates combustion in a smaller recess, which can help with combustion stability across a varying RPM range. In performance builds, narrow-bowl pistons are often chosen to improve how the engine responds when load and RPM change.
generator runs at that is the best efficiencies
"Like you're saying in transitional, that could be at your set 3600 RPM that a generator runs at that is the best efficiencies that there's obviously some on highway emission things they have to bring into consideration when they're designing, you know, piston bowls for trucks."
Diesel efficiency depends a lot on where the engine is operating (RPM and how hard it’s working). Generators usually run at one steady speed, so the piston design can be chosen to be best at that condition.
The efficiency of a diesel piston/bowl design is strongly tied to the engine’s operating point—especially RPM and load. Generator applications typically run at a constant RPM, so bowl geometry can be optimized for that steady condition rather than for frequent transients.
robust piston
"We do know, like he talked about the narrow bowl versus wide bowl. We always go narrow bowl and all of our stuff because it's a very much more robust piston, having a lot more abuse before it's going to crack melt."
“Robust piston” here refers to piston strength and thermal tolerance—how well it resists cracking or melting under heat and cylinder pressure. The speaker claims narrow-bowl pistons are more abuse-tolerant, which matters in higher-load diesel builds.
eighth mile
"So your truck over here that ran 4.99 seconds, the eighth mile, the factory race track is on factory narrow bowl, six, seven pistons."
The “eighth mile” is a drag strip measurement that’s shorter than the quarter mile. It’s commonly used to see how well a build launches and accelerates.
The “eighth mile” is a shorter drag-racing distance (1/8 mile) used to evaluate acceleration and tuning changes. Diesel builds often reference it because it can show traction and early acceleration differences that may not be as obvious over longer distances.
bottom end (engine strength)
"Yeah, not a forge. Like you were talking earlier about bottom end and forged pistons."
“Bottom end” is the engine’s lower parts that take the hardest loads—like the crank and rods. When diesel guys mention it, they mean making sure those parts can handle the extra force from high power.
“Bottom end” refers to the lower rotating/reciprocating components of an engine—things like the crankshaft, connecting rods, and pistons—that must survive combustion forces. When builders talk about “bottom end” in diesel builds, they’re usually discussing how to keep the engine together under high cylinder pressure.
start of injection
"or you want to inject it, like get the start of injection to happen later. So that way it goes from the outside and works inwards."
Diesel engines inject fuel at a specific moment in the engine cycle. If you inject it earlier or later, the engine burns the fuel differently, which can affect power, smoke, and emissions.
“Start of injection” is when the fuel injector begins spraying fuel into the cylinder during the engine’s cycle. In diesel tuning, shifting this timing later or earlier changes combustion behavior, noise, efficiency, and emissions.
tuning strategy for combustion bowl geometry
"And so that is kind of like the tuning strategy you take on those with a wide bowl... if you look at the timing tables between the two factory, those two tunes, a narrow bowl injector is generally like the factories"
The shape of the combustion chamber changes how the fuel spray behaves. Because of that, tuning (fuel timing and injection amounts) often has to be adjusted depending on whether the engine uses a wide or narrow bowl.
The speaker frames bowl geometry as a calibration constraint that changes how tuners set injection timing and fuel distribution. Wide vs narrow bowls can require different timing tables because the spray mixing and burn characteristics differ.
wide bowl injector
"And so that is kind of like the tuning strategy you take on those with a wide bowl. And I can see why the factory would do this."
In a diesel, the combustion chamber has a “bowl” shape that helps the fuel spray mix with air. A wide bowl gives more space for the fuel to spread and burn, especially when you’re injecting in multiple stages.
A “wide bowl” refers to the shape/geometry of the diesel injector’s combustion bowl (in the piston or injector tip area), which affects how the spray pattern mixes with air. Wider bowls generally give more room for fuel to be injected across different timings while still mixing and burning.
emissions standards driving injector/bowl changes
"If you're fighting emissions, like in those five or six, whatever, is in your trying to just like you have to have a very wide range of where you can throw fuel... they needed more flexibility to be able to meet emission standards."
As emissions rules get stricter, manufacturers often change how the engine burns fuel and how it injects fuel. That can mean different injector and combustion-chamber designs to keep exhaust cleaner.
The segment links injector bowl geometry changes to meeting emissions requirements. As emissions hardware and strategies evolve (e.g., later trucks adding more aftertreatment/control hardware), manufacturers may adjust combustion design and calibration to keep NOx/PM under control while maintaining drivability.
pilot and post injection
"you have to have a very wide range of where you can throw fuel at with pilot and post and main shot. Like a big one, that big large bowl injector is basically a vat"
Instead of spraying all the fuel at once, some diesel setups inject it in stages. That helps the engine burn cleaner and can reduce noise and exhaust smoke.
Pilot, post, and main injection are multiple fuel-spray events within one diesel combustion cycle. Pilot injection helps stabilize combustion and reduce harshness/smoke, while post injection can help manage exhaust temperatures and emissions afterburning.
pilot post main shot
"you can throw fuel at with pilot and post and main shot. Like a big one, that big large bowl injector is basically a vat"
Diesel engines can inject fuel in more than one burst. The “pilot” and “post” are smaller injections around the main injection to help the burn happen the way the calibration wants.
“Pilot post main shot” is shorthand for the three injection events used in many modern diesel calibrations: pilot (small start), post (late/after), and main (primary). The exact timing and quantity of each event are tuned to balance power, smoke, and emissions.
timing map
"But you look at a narrow bowl, like timing table from the factory. It looks a little bit more like what you'd expect it to look like. You look at that wide bowl."
A timing map is basically the computer’s “schedule” for when the engine’s combustion happens. It changes depending on how hard you’re driving and how fast the engine is spinning, so the engine burns fuel efficiently.
A timing map is the engine’s programmed ignition timing (or injection timing on diesels) plotted across operating conditions like load and RPM. Different piston bowl shapes can change how efficiently the engine burns, so the ECU may use a different timing map to get the same power while staying within emissions limits.
emission standards met with fuel-only strategies
"But either way, I think that they needed that, that flexibility just to be able to meet whatever emission standards they were trying to do. Because they're trying to do it with purely fuel and no, no, no aftermarket treatments or anything, not aftermarket, after gr."
Instead of using extra exhaust gadgets to clean the smoke, the engine can be tuned to burn fuel more cleanly inside the cylinder. That usually involves changing how and when fuel is injected and how the piston’s combustion chamber is shaped.
The speaker is describing how manufacturers can meet emissions targets using combustion and fueling changes alone—without relying on aftermarket-style exhaust aftertreatment. In diesel engines, this often means calibrating injection timing, pilot/main fueling, and combustion chamber geometry so the engine burns cleaner inherently.
narrow ball piston
"So, yeah. So for the common old guys, like if we can, if you're calling us in general, we're going to recommend a narrow ball piston because we just think it's better. We've had better luck."
This is a piston shape choice. The “bowl” on top of the piston changes how the fuel-air mixture burns, and the hosts prefer the narrow version for everyday performance builds because it tends to work better in practice.
A “narrow ball” piston refers to the shape of the piston crown/bowl area, which affects combustion mixing and how efficiently the engine burns fuel. The hosts recommend it for general “common old guys” builds because they’ve seen better real-world results.
wide ball piston
"We do know fuel only will make a touch more power with a wide ball piston. And so if you said sled polling, air, air limited classes, you know, power outer limited stuff, we can use nitrous, then a wide ball makes a lot of sense."
This is the same idea as the narrow ball piston, but with a wider shape on top. The hosts say it can help make a little more power for some setups, but it may not be the best choice if you care most about longevity and clean operation.
A “wide ball” piston is another piston-crown/bowl geometry that can improve power under certain conditions by promoting different combustion characteristics. The hosts say fuel-only setups can make a bit more power with a wide ball, but they’re steering choices based on the intended use (sled/power vs long-road mileage).
diesel piston efficiency vs fuel mileage
"And, and so we also talked about like the efficiency of the piston, whatever else. However, I don't want people to think that like, oh, well, if it's a 10% increase or 5% increase, 2% whatever increase in efficiency, that's, that's fuel mileage, like going down the road."
They’re warning you not to assume that if a piston is “a little more efficient,” your fuel economy will improve by the same percentage. Real fuel mileage depends on how you drive and how the whole engine system is set up, not just the piston.
The hosts caution against assuming that small percentage gains in piston “efficiency” automatically translate into the same percentage improvement in real-world fuel economy. In practice, fuel mileage is influenced by many factors—vehicle load, driving conditions, injection strategy, and exhaust/aftertreatment behavior—so combustion efficiency gains don’t always show up one-to-one at the pump.
90% split
"...the wide bowl will do like a 90% split much better and much easier. And you can go even higher."
A 90/10 split is another two-shot injection strategy where almost all the fuel goes in before the piston reaches the top. The idea is that the piston’s bowl shape can handle that better.
A “90% split” means most of the fuel is injected before TDC (about 90%) with the remainder after TDC (about 10%). The speaker argues that wider bowls can make this strategy easier, allowing more flexibility in timing and injection event placement.
Ford F150
"Now, some guys are going to be like, well, I run forged pistons on my whatever my coyote F 150. Why, why shouldn't I put forged pistons in my 2012 Dodge, Todd?"
The Ford F-150 is a large pickup truck used for hauling, towing, and general driving. Some owners upgrade engine parts to make more power, including pistons. The podcast is basically asking whether certain upgrades are necessary or smart for a specific truck and model year.
The Ford F-150 is a full-size pickup truck that’s widely used for work and everyday driving. It’s frequently discussed in the context of engine upgrades and internal parts—like the choice between forged and other piston types—because many owners modify them for more power. In your podcast context, it’s being used as an example of how people debate what parts are worth changing and why.
compression height
"They can put any bull you want. They'll put any compression height you want. Like you can build a custom piston."
Compression height is a measurement that affects where the piston sits in the engine. Changing it can change clearances and compression, so it’s important when you’re building a custom piston.
Compression height is the vertical distance between the piston’s wrist-pin centerline and the piston crown. It determines how the piston fits in the engine’s geometry and affects deck clearance and compression ratio, so custom pistons often specify it precisely.
cast piston
"The problem, the forged pistons and diesels in a diesel cast piston, they have a steel ring land for the top cylinder ring..."
Cast pistons are the more common, mass-produced type of piston. They’re usually cheaper than forged pistons, but the host is explaining that diesel engines can be harder on piston/ring areas.
Cast pistons are produced by pouring molten aluminum into a mold, which is generally cheaper and common in production engines. The segment contrasts cast piston designs with forged pistons, especially in diesel applications where ring land wear and abrasive soot can be more severe.
steel ring land
"The problem, the forged pistons and diesels in a diesel cast piston, they have a steel ring land for the top cylinder ring, piston ring, excuse me."
The ring land is where the piston rings sit. Using a steel ring land helps the top ring survive longer because it’s more resistant to wear, which matters a lot in diesel engines.
The ring land is the portion of the piston that supports the piston rings. A steel ring land (cast into or attached to the piston) helps resist wear from the top ring, which is especially important in diesels where soot and heat can accelerate abrasion.
soot
"So the aluminum piston, the steel cast ring land and the pistons and diesels, they have to deal with so loading a lot more than gasoline, they call it a so load... If you see smoke, it's so it."
Soot is the black, dusty stuff that can come out of the exhaust when fuel doesn’t burn completely. In diesel engines, soot can be harsh on internal parts, so builders think about piston and ring wear.
Soot is the carbon-rich particulate byproduct of incomplete combustion, common in diesel exhaust. The segment links soot to increased abrasion and wear inside the engine, which is why piston/ring materials and coatings matter more on diesels than many gasoline setups.
anodized coatings
"And so they do anodized coatings now on forged pistons, which is a helpful, it's much stronger."
Anodized coatings are a protective surface layer that makes parts harder and more wear-resistant. The host is saying this helps forged pistons last longer in diesel-style conditions.
Anodized coatings are surface treatments that create a hard, wear-resistant oxide layer on aluminum components. Here, the host says anodized coatings are used on forged pistons to improve durability against the abrasive conditions associated with diesel soot and ring wear.
keystone top ring
"...because diesels deal with that, um, all that soot, they're running a keystone top ring and that keystone top ring is designed to cycle. Every time it goes up and down, it helps like, it keeps itself moving."
A keystone top ring is shaped like a wedge. That shape helps the ring keep sealing and helps it move soot away from where it rides on the piston.
A keystone top ring has a wedge-like profile that helps it maintain contact and control sealing as cylinder conditions change. In diesels, the ring’s design can help it “cycle” and scrape/clean soot from the ring land during up-and-down motion.
ring-to-land clearance and "designed to be a little bit loose"
"...the ring has, it's moving in that ring land. It's wearing out the ring land and it's designed to be a little bit loose in there. So it's just hammering, but, but it's not wearing on a steel ring land."
Piston rings need a little space to move correctly. If they’re too tight, soot can build up and stop them from working; if they’re designed with the right clearance, they can keep cleaning themselves.
The discussion highlights that diesel ring packs are designed with specific clearance so the ring can move and keep cleaning the ring land. Too-tight fit can trap soot and combustion byproducts, while the right clearance helps the ring cycle and maintain sealing over time.
factory piston
"Probably not, but the force pistons are stronger. Fifteen horsepower through a factory piston for quite a while."
A factory piston is the stock piston that came with the engine from the factory. It’s designed for normal driving and normal power. If you push the engine harder, it may not last as long as a stronger aftermarket piston.
A factory piston usually refers to the OEM (stock) piston design, which is engineered for durability under typical production power levels. The hosts are discussing how long stock pistons can survive compared with stronger forged pistons when power is increased. They imply that stock pistons can work for a while at moderate upgrades, but not indefinitely at very high output.
keystone ring
"Now I want to talk a little bit about keystone ring and rectangle... keystone, if you've ever seen an arch... that's the keystone... Well, the ring is wedge shaped... what a keystone ring is where regular ring is rectangular."
A keystone ring is a piston ring shaped like a wedge. That shape helps it seal better and can help control oil by scraping it more effectively. The idea is that the ring design can improve how the engine manages oil and compression.
A keystone ring is an oil or compression ring with a wedge-shaped (keystone) profile instead of a rectangular one. The wedge shape changes how the ring contacts the cylinder wall and can improve sealing and “cleaning action” by scraping oil more effectively. The hosts note it’s uncommon outside diesel applications and certain other engines.
rectangle ring
"Well, the ring is wedge shaped when you look at a side profile and that's what a keystone ring is where regular ring is rectangular."
A rectangle ring is the more traditional piston ring shape—basically a rectangular profile. It doesn’t have the wedge/keystone geometry that can change how the ring seals and controls oil. The hosts bring it up mainly to compare designs.
A rectangle ring refers to a piston ring with a more traditional rectangular cross-section profile. Compared with a keystone (wedge) profile, the contact pattern and oil control behavior can differ, which is why ring geometry matters for sealing and oil management. The hosts use it as the contrast point to explain why keystone rings are notable in diesel builds.
oil ring
"So they also have what we believe is a better oil ring. The little spring, like it's a very different design oil control ring. Yes."
The oil ring helps control how much engine oil gets wiped onto the cylinder walls. If it doesn’t work well, you can burn more oil or get more buildup. The hosts are saying the diesel-focused ring sets they like use a different oil-ring design for better control.
The oil ring is the piston ring responsible for controlling how much oil remains on the cylinder wall. The hosts claim keystone rings also come with a “better oil ring” design, described as a different oil-control ring architecture with a spring-like element. Oil ring design is important because it affects oil consumption, emissions, and how well the engine stays clean under load.
oil control ring
"So the oil control ring is better. So you will burn more oil with a forged piston for two reasons. One, their oil control ring is not as good as the diesel, you know, the OEM design ones."
Pistons have rings that help control oil inside the engine. The oil control ring is the one that keeps extra oil from getting into the combustion area. If it doesn’t do its job well, the engine can burn more oil.
The oil control ring is the piston ring designed to scrape excess oil off the cylinder wall and control how much oil gets into the combustion chamber. If it’s less effective, more oil can be pulled into the intake/exhaust and burned, increasing oil consumption. Diesel and gasoline pistons can use different ring designs because their operating conditions differ.
hyper eutectic
"A factory cast piston is actually a hyper eutectic, which means it has silicon mixed into the aluminum, which means it has more thermal stability."
A hyper-eutectic piston is a special cast piston made with extra silicon. That silicon helps the piston stay more stable as the engine heats up and cools down. So it tends to change size less than other piston materials.
A hyper-eutectic piston is a cast piston alloy with a high silicon content mixed into aluminum. That extra silicon improves thermal stability, meaning the piston expands less with heat and contracts less when cold. The result is tighter, more consistent fit across temperature swings compared with many other piston types.
piston wall clearances
"So our race engines, we run very, very large piston, the wall clearances. I mean, and you have to, otherwise every time you put your pistons out and be scuffed..."
Piston wall clearance is the designed gap between the piston and the cylinder wall when cold. Builders set it based on expected operating temperatures and piston expansion so the piston doesn’t seize or scuff when hot. The segment describes using “very, very large” clearances for race engines to prevent contact under extreme conditions.
scuffed
"...otherwise every time you put your pistons out and be scuffed by pissing while you're talking, how loose the pistons fit in the engine."
“Scuffed” refers to damage where the piston surface or skirt rubs against the cylinder wall, leaving marks and potentially accelerating wear. In performance builds, scuffing often points to incorrect clearances, poor piston fit, or insufficient lubrication under heat/load. The hosts connect scuffing risk to piston clearance choices.
cast vs forged piston tradeoffs
"I mean, you can move a little bit on a cast one... And so that wide piston, a wall on the forge piston... those factory cast pistons... have an oil cooling galley cast into them... They have that a forge piston does not have a groove like that."
The segment is essentially comparing cast vs forged piston tradeoffs for diesel street trucks: cast pistons may be noisier, burn more oil, and wear bores faster due to more piston movement, but they can include complex OEM oil-cooling passages. Forged pistons are described as more rigid and better for high-RPM durability, but they may lack certain internal cooling grooves that require casting. This is a practical concept for choosing piston strategy based on intended use and cooling design.
forge piston
"And so that wide piston, a wall on the forge piston, that's a downside for a street truck... it'll make a little bit more noise... burn more oil... wear the bores out faster... They have that a forge piston does not have a groove like that."
Forged pistons are made by compressing and shaping metal, which usually makes them tougher and more rigid. Because they fit more tightly, they can reduce the piston’s side-to-side movement in the cylinder. That can mean less noise and less oil burning, but they may not include the same built-in oil-cooling shapes as some factory cast pistons.
Forged pistons are made by shaping metal under high pressure, which generally yields a stronger, more rigid piston. The segment argues that forged pistons have a “wide piston wall” that reduces piston rocking, which can improve noise, oil control, and bore/ring longevity. The tradeoff mentioned is that forged pistons may not be able to incorporate certain complex internal oil-cooling passages like some OEM cast designs.
piston rocking
"...because the piston is looser and it rocks more, it's going to wear the bores out faster, where the ring changes direction."
Piston rocking means the piston isn’t perfectly steady in the cylinder—it shifts slightly as the engine loads change. When that happens, it can scrape or stress the cylinder walls more and can also disturb the oil control rings. Over time, that can wear the engine faster and may increase oil burning.
“Piston rocking” refers to the piston moving slightly in the cylinder as combustion loads change, rather than staying perfectly centered. The segment connects more rocking to higher noise, increased oil consumption, and faster cylinder bore wear because the piston/rings change direction more aggressively. This is why piston fitment and piston design matter for long-term durability.
bore wear
"...it's going to wear the bores out faster, where the ring changes direction. It's going to wear the engine faster."
Bore wear is when the inside cylinder wall slowly gets worn down. The piston and rings rub against it every time the engine runs. If the piston isn’t stable, that rubbing gets worse, so the cylinder wears out faster.
Bore wear is the gradual loss of cylinder wall material due to friction and mechanical stress from the piston and rings. The segment links increased piston rocking to faster bore wear, especially where the rings reverse direction. Bore wear is a key durability metric in diesel engines because it can eventually reduce compression and increase oil consumption.
oil cooling galley
"...those factory cast pistons... they have an oil cooling galley cast into them. They have a hollow place and the engine has a J jet that sprays oil constantly."
An oil cooling galley is a built-in oil channel inside the piston that sends oil where it’s needed for cooling. The idea is to keep the piston from getting too hot during heavy driving. Cooler pistons are less likely to fail from heat stress.
An oil cooling galley is an internal oil passage (a channel) used to route oil for cooling within the piston. The segment claims that certain factory cast pistons (referenced in the “six sevens” context) have an oil cooling galley cast into the piston. This internal oil flow helps manage piston/cylinder temperatures under load.
J jet
"They have a hollow place and the engine has a J jet that sprays oil constantly. An oil nozzle on the bottom of the piston to cool it."
A “J jet” is basically an oil sprayer/nozzle in the engine. It shoots oil onto the piston to help cool it down. More effective cooling helps the engine handle heavy load without overheating.
“J jet” here refers to an oil jet/nozzle in the engine that sprays oil toward the piston for cooling. The segment describes a constant spray that works with the piston’s internal oil passages to keep temperatures under control. This is an important diesel design detail because oil cooling capacity directly affects how much load the engine can sustain.
engine temperature under load
"...they can maintain this, this higher engine temperature under load than where the aluminum could potentially melt and fail."
This is how hot the engine gets when you’re driving hard or towing. The segment is saying that better oil cooling helps keep piston temperatures under control. That reduces the chance of heat damage.
“Engine temperature under load” is the operating heat level when the engine is working hard (high combustion and friction). The segment argues that the cast piston’s oil-cooling features help maintain higher temperatures safely, reducing the risk of aluminum piston failure from overheating/melting. This is a thermal-management concept that matters for diesel durability.
Cummins 5.9 common rail
"Now, as you go down to like the five nine common rail, you do have the option of steel pistons, Molly makes a steel piston."
The 5.9L Cummins common-rail diesel is a popular diesel engine setup. They’re saying that for this engine you can choose different piston materials, including steel.
The 5.9L Cummins “common rail” diesel uses a high-pressure fuel system that helps with efficient combustion. The discussion here is specifically about piston material options (steel pistons) for that engine family.
Ford Power Stroke
"The Ford power stroke guys out there, once you get to, I think, 2021, they're all steel from the factory and it's a very common upgrade."
Power Stroke is Ford’s diesel engine. They’re saying newer versions came with steel pistons, and older trucks can be upgraded to that style.
Ford’s Power Stroke is the company’s diesel engine line used in Super Duty trucks. The hosts note that starting around 2021, Ford used steel pistons from the factory, and that older 6.7L Power Stroke owners often upgrade to the newer steel-piston setup.
piston to wall
"you can run much tighter piston to wall because they are, they don't expand like an aluminum... So let's say the smallest you'd ever be in a forge pistons, probably eight to 10,000ths, pissed in a wall, a cast piston."
Piston-to-wall clearance is the small gap between the piston and the cylinder. Too much gap can reduce performance and increase wear; too little can cause rubbing when everything heats up.
Piston-to-wall clearance is the gap between the piston and the cylinder wall, which affects how the piston expands with heat. The hosts connect piston material (cast vs steel vs forged) to how tightly you can run that clearance, noting that steel and forged options can allow tighter clearances than aluminum-based pistons.
steel piston
"I've seen some of those spec down at 4,000ths... commonly steel... And so there could be a wear advantage there. I know steel pistons are a lot more popular in semi truck applications."
A steel piston is made from steel instead of the more common aluminum. It can be chosen for durability in certain heavy-duty uses. In a build, the key is making sure the piston’s expansion matches the engine’s cylinder/block so it doesn’t rub when hot.
Steel pistons are less common in passenger-car diesel builds but are used in some heavy-duty applications because steel can tolerate different stresses and wear characteristics. The hosts discuss how steel pistons can be specified with certain clearances based on expansion rates relative to the block. They also mention limited local experience and sourcing compared to more common cast/forged aluminum pistons.
piston wall clearance (2,000ths / 1.5)
"And then on a steel piston, they recommend 2,000ths piston wall. One and a half is the tightest they've seen those spec... But if you have a steel piston that grows the same rate as your cast iron block, it doesn't need, it needs clearance. That's all it needs."
This is the little gap between the piston and the cylinder wall. When the engine heats up, the piston grows, so you need enough space to prevent rubbing. The “right” gap depends on the piston material and how it expands compared to the engine block.
Piston wall clearance is the designed gap between the piston skirt and the cylinder wall, often measured in thousandths of an inch. The segment compares recommended clearances for steel pistons versus cast pistons and notes that tighter clearances can reduce wear and improve fit, but only if the piston and block expand at compatible rates. Too little clearance risks scuffing or seizure when hot; too much can increase noise and wear.
piston material expansion vs block material
"But if you have a steel piston that grows the same rate as your cast iron block, it doesn't need, it needs clearance. That's all it needs."
Different materials expand at different rates when they heat up. If the piston and the engine block expand similarly, you can run a tighter gap safely. If they don’t match, the piston can grow into the cylinder wall and cause damage.
The segment highlights a core engineering idea: piston-to-cylinder clearance must account for thermal expansion differences between the piston material and the engine block (here, a cast iron block). If the piston and block expand at similar rates, you can run less clearance without risking contact. This is why builders talk about “growing the same rate” when selecting piston type and spec.
Tesla Semi
".... I know steel pistons are a lot more popular in semi truck applications. But, but like, so we really ..."
The Tesla Semi is an electric truck built to move freight over long distances. Because it’s electric, it doesn’t use a traditional engine with pistons like many diesel trucks do. That’s why the conversation compares “semi truck applications” to what’s actually used in an electric design.
The Tesla Semi is an electric heavy-duty semi truck designed for long-haul freight. It’s significant because it brings battery-electric power to a segment traditionally dominated by diesel engines, which changes how components are designed and maintained. In the podcast context, the discussion is about how certain engine-related ideas (like pistons) don’t apply the same way to an electric truck.
semi truck vs passenger-car diesel build parts sourcing
"I know steel pistons are a lot more popular in semi truck applications. But, but like, so we really have not done much with them here..."
Some parts are common in heavy-duty trucks but harder to find for other diesel builds. If you can’t easily source the right pistons, it can limit what power level or setup you can safely run. Builders often rely on what’s proven and available for their engine type.
The hosts compare how steel pistons are more common in semi truck applications, but less common in their own local diesel build ecosystem. That affects what piston options are available, what clearances are proven, and how confidently builders can match parts to a specific engine. It’s a practical concept: part availability and proven fitment often drive what builds are feasible.
VP 44
"...before you start modifying the block as you drop down the cut to VP 44, there's just one piston. All VP 44s, there's no option."
VP44 is a specific diesel fuel injection pump design used on some engines. Changing to or from a VP44 setup can change how much fuel the engine can deliver and how hard the internals have to work. That’s why it comes up when planning what power level to build for.
VP44 refers to the Bosch VP44 rotary injection pump used on certain diesel engines. The hosts mention “dropping down the cut to VP 44,” implying a change in fueling strategy or hardware level that affects achievable power and how much the engine needs to be modified. In diesel builds, injection pump choice can strongly influence power, drivability, and stress on internal components.
low compression
"Like power pack pistons give you low compression. I've never looked. No, I don't think Molly does anything."
Low compression means the engine squeezes the air/fuel mixture less than usual. That usually makes the engine run with less stress inside the cylinder. Builders use it when they want the engine to handle more abuse or different fuel/tuning.
“Low compression” means the piston/cylinder setup produces a lower compression ratio. In diesel engines, that can reduce peak cylinder pressure and heat, which is often used when building for durability or when using certain fueling levels. It’s also commonly paired with piston designs that change combustion chamber geometry.
valve relief ones
"...they call low compression options because they have valve relief ones, but yeah, but real piston design change."
Valve relief pistons have small notches on the top of the piston. Those notches give extra space so the valves don’t hit the piston. It’s a safety/fitment thing, especially after engine modifications.
“Valve relief” pistons have cutouts in the piston crown to provide clearance for valves. This is typically needed when changing cam timing, head work, or using different cylinder heads where valve-to-piston clearance could otherwise be too tight. The reliefs help prevent valve contact during high lift or high RPM operation.
12 valves
"So now we're down to the 12 valves... It's a really popular... piston bowl that we like a lot on, on 12 valves."
“12 valves” is how many valves the engine has in total. More valves usually means more ways to breathe, but the key point is that this specific head design changes how the fuel burns. That’s why piston shape and compression matter a lot.
“12 valves” refers to the cylinder head design where each cylinder has two intake and two exhaust valves (for a total of 12 valves on a six-cylinder engine). In Cummins diesel circles, 12-valve setups are known for a simpler, more mechanical-feeling architecture compared with later 24-valve generations. Piston bowl shape and compression ratio are especially important here because combustion chamber geometry directly affects power and efficiency.
non-intercooled
"...we put in like the non-intercooled first gen... So when you get pre 91, they were non-intercooled."
Non-intercooled means the turbocharged air goes straight into the engine without being cooled first. Hot intake air can make the engine run harder and can increase smoke/heat. So builders often adjust piston/compression to match that setup.
“Non-intercooled” means the engine’s intake air is not cooled by an intercooler before entering the cylinders. On diesel turbo setups, cooler intake air can reduce charge temperatures and help control knock-like issues and smoke. When an engine is non-intercooled, builders often compensate with piston bowl/compression choices to keep combustion under control.
injectors
"So they run clean with, uh, with the right injectors and tuning, great power."
Injectors are the parts that spray diesel fuel into the engine. If they’re the right ones and the computer is tuned correctly, the fuel burns cleaner and you can make more power.
Diesel injectors meter and spray fuel into the combustion chamber. With the right injectors and tuning, you can improve combustion efficiency and reduce soot while still making strong power.
deckplating a 12 out block
"You know, I was thinking of deckplating a 12 out block though, cause I was like, just, just, just to flex on everybody. That is a sin."
“Deckplating” means machining the engine block’s deck surface to change piston-to-head clearance and effectively alter compression and combustion geometry. In high-power diesel builds, it’s used to fine-tune compression ratio and help manage cylinder pressure when running extreme fueling.
artificially increasing your compression ratio
"You, you're injecting a solid into the cylinder before the pistons all the way up. You're kind of artificially increasing your compression ratio, because"
They’re describing a situation where the engine is forced to behave like it has higher compression than you’d normally get. That can make huge power, but it also makes the engine harder on parts like pistons and the block.
The hosts describe a strategy where very early/abusive fueling effectively raises effective compression conditions before the piston reaches top dead center. In diesel sled-pulling contexts, this can increase peak cylinder pressure and stress components, so it’s a major reason why piston choice and block integrity matter.
horsepower
"Like tries to say, Oh man, this truck makes 800 horsepower. You should drive it... I know what 800 horsepower feels like."
Horsepower is basically how much “pull” the engine can make. A big number on paper doesn’t always mean the truck will feel good to drive—how it makes power and how cleanly it burns matters.
Horsepower is a measure of an engine’s power output, often used as a headline number for builds. The hosts are pushing back on using a peak horsepower claim (like “800 horsepower”) as the only measure of whether a build is good, since real-world drivability and emissions/combustion quality matter too.
smoky build / excessive smoke
"Well, be able to make 800 if it's a smoky dog... I'm glad that it makes 800, but it's a terrible build... But if it's clean, I can drive it on the street clean and just it's peppy."
On a diesel, smoke usually means the fuel isn’t burning as completely as it should. A build that’s “smoky” may feel strong, but it can be inefficient and unpleasant (and sometimes harder on components) compared to a cleaner, more balanced setup.
“Smoky” refers to visible exhaust smoke, which in diesel builds often indicates incomplete combustion or an overly aggressive fueling/air setup. The hosts contrast a build that can make big power but smokes excessively (“smoky dog”) with a cleaner build that’s streetable and doesn’t require constant smoke to feel responsive.
higher compression
"That's a fun and so when to build something like that, you like higher compression. And that's a huge part of the six seven crank that we do with the six one stroker, you're bumping your compression ratio up a bunch."
Compression is how tightly the engine squeezes the fuel/air before it lights. More compression can make more power, but you have to tune everything else so it burns correctly and doesn’t cause problems.
Higher compression ratio means the engine squeezes the air/fuel mixture more before ignition. In diesel builds, that can improve efficiency and power, but it also increases stress and can raise the risk of knock or hard starting if the rest of the setup (fueling, timing, combustion chamber shape) isn’t matched.
six one stroker
"Yeah, I built him a six one stroker. It's got, I was, that was like early, early days of six one strokers. And so I was worried about the 21 or 20 to one compression."
A stroker build is when you change the crank (and matching parts) to make the engine’s cylinders bigger in a specific way. That usually makes more low-end torque, but it also changes how the engine needs to be tuned.
A “stroker” build increases engine displacement by using a crankshaft with a longer stroke and matching components (typically pistons/connecting rods). In diesel performance builds, stroking can increase torque, and when combined with higher compression, it can significantly change how the engine behaves under load.
Mexican hat bowl
"There are, so they started with the non-intercooled first gen bowl, which is kind of some people call it the Mexican hat bowl. Cause it's got kind of like a little dome in the middle."
That “Mexican hat” name is just a nickname for a certain diesel piston pocket shape. The shape matters because it helps the fuel burn in a more controlled way, which affects power and smoke.
“Mexican hat bowl” is a nickname for an early diesel piston bowl combustion-chamber shape that has a small dome in the center, resembling a sombrero. Bowl shape affects air motion and fuel spray targeting, so different bowl designs can change how the engine responds to fueling and timing.
re-entrant style bowl
"Then in 91 and a half, and they went intercooled, they kind of went to a re-entrant style bowl where it's got a, the dome in the middle looks almost like the head of a mushroom or something."
The piston has a “cup” in it where combustion happens. A re-entrant bowl is a specific shape that helps the air and fuel mix and burn more effectively.
A “re-entrant” piston bowl is a combustion-chamber shape where the bowl geometry creates a more complex path for airflow and fuel/air mixing. This design can improve how the diesel burns, especially across different boost and injection conditions.
P pump
"Then when they went into like, uh, 94 and they went into the actual P pump, 12 hours, the bowl got a little bit smaller."
A diesel “P pump” is part of the fuel system that meters and pressurizes fuel before it’s injected. When the pump design changes, the engine may need a different piston bowl shape so the fuel burns correctly.
“P pump” refers to a specific style of diesel fuel injection pump used on some mechanical-injection setups. Changing the injection pump (and its calibration) can alter spray pattern and timing, which often drives piston bowl shape changes for emissions and combustion control.
ring height
"Then in 96, they made a little bit of a change, slightly bigger, smaller. They moved the height of the ring."
The piston has metal rings that seal the cylinder. Ring height is how high or low those rings sit on the piston, and it affects how hot they run and how well they seal.
Ring height is where the piston’s compression/combustion rings sit relative to the piston crown and cylinder. Moving the ring height changes how much heat the rings see and how much combustion gas can get trapped around the rings, affecting wear and efficiency.
trapped gases
"Anyway, they moved it up, but the further you ring is down, the more trapped gases and weird combustion products you can get between the ring and the"
Sometimes exhaust/combustion leftovers can get stuck in the area around the piston rings. If the rings sit lower, there’s more space for that to happen, which can hurt how clean and healthy the engine runs.
“Trapped gases” refers to combustion byproducts that can get caught in the space between the piston ring and the cylinder wall/piston geometry. If the rings are positioned farther down, more volume can exist for these gases to accumulate, which can worsen combustion conditions and contribute to deposits or wear.
piston ring
"It seems like as they get newer, they move the ring higher on the piston and performance guys generally move the ring down to protect it..."
Piston rings are the parts that seal the gap between the piston and cylinder wall. Their placement on the piston matters because it affects how long they last and how well they can handle heat and pressure.
Piston rings seal combustion gases and help control oil consumption. Changing ring position (higher vs lower on the piston) can improve durability and emissions behavior, but it also changes how the piston is machined and how much “meat” remains above the ring pack.
215
"...when they went to the 215, the bowl is even a little bit different... the 215 is the most common one made in the aftermarket..."
“215” sounds like a specific piston style code used by piston makers. The key takeaway is that this particular bowl style has ring placement that works well for certain builds, especially stroker setups.
“215” here appears to be a piston/bowl variant designation used in diesel piston catalogs to describe a specific combustion bowl geometry. The speaker ties it to ring-land positioning and notes it’s common in the aftermarket, implying it’s a practical choice for certain stroker builds.
160, 180 piston
"...you don't have enough meat on top of the ring land on like a 180, 160 piston to be able to machine off and have like good margin there... A 215 bowl... it gets you pretty close to what a 160, 180."
“160” and “180” are likely piston style numbers people use to compare different piston shapes. They’re being used here to explain how much material is available above the ring area and how close you can get to the ideal ring position after machining.
The “160” and “180” references appear to be piston variant sizes/designs (likely related to bowl/ring-land geometry) used as comparison points for how far the ring land can be moved down. The speaker uses these as benchmarks for achieving adequate ring support and machining margin on stroker pistons.
6.1 stroker piston
"...which makes it a great six one stroker piston, because you don't have enough meat on top of the ring land..."
A stroker build makes the engine bigger by changing the crank/rod setup so the piston travels farther. That usually means you need special pistons so the rings and top of the piston still have enough strength and clearance.
A “6.1 stroker” setup increases engine displacement by using a crankshaft and connecting-rod combination that changes piston travel. Stroker builds often require specific piston designs because the piston crown and ring-land thickness must provide enough clearance and durability after machining and altered geometry.
deck it
"A 215 bowl, they moved that ring down the two millimeters or whatever it is to where you deck it, the 80 thou, it gets you pretty close..."
“Decking” is machining the piston so it sits at the right height in the engine. If you change the piston height, you often need to adjust ring placement too so the rings still have the right support.
“Decking” a piston means machining the piston’s top surface to set the final piston height relative to the engine block. In this context, moving the ring down on a specific piston bowl helps achieve the desired ring position after the piston is decked.
80 thou
"...to where you deck it, the 80 thou, it gets you pretty close..."
“80 thou” means 0.080 inches (roughly 2 mm) of material removed. In this context, it’s the amount of piston machining that affects where the rings end up after the build.
“80 thou” is shorthand for 0.080 inches (about 2.0 mm) of machining. Here, it’s used to describe how much the piston is decked, which then determines how the ring position ends up relative to the cylinder and combustion chamber.
14 millimeter
"...I think the furthest rings down is 14 millimeter on the earliest ones."
They’re saying there’s a practical limit to how far the ring area can be moved down. Go too far and you may not have enough strength or support for the rings.
The speaker mentions a maximum ring-land movement of about 14 mm on the earliest versions. This is a practical constraint: moving the ring too far down can reduce piston strength or ring support, so builders treat it like a limit when selecting piston variants and planning machining.
after turbo
"Maybe it's because you have the aftermarket emission systems or the after, uh, after turbo, I mean, like we've said, like a 12 valve is tuned by the parts you put in it."
“After turbo” means anything in the exhaust/intake path after the turbocharger. Adding emissions or other aftermarket hardware can change how the engine breathes and how hot it runs. That can affect what piston setup works best.
“After turbo” in this context points to downstream components and systems that come after the turbocharger, such as emissions and intake/exhaust plumbing. Those systems can change exhaust backpressure, intake temperatures, and how the engine manages combustion and fueling. That’s why piston bowl design and compression ratio recommendations may shift as aftermarket emissions hardware is added.
boost reference AFC foot
"They had a torque plate in there and a boost reference AFC foot."
This is an older-style control that links how much fuel the engine gets to how much boost (pressure) the turbo is making. Because it’s tied to boost in a fixed way, it limits how freely you can tune compared with newer systems.
“AFC” refers to the Air Fuel Control (or similar fuel metering control) used on certain mechanical/early diesel setups, where fuel delivery is influenced by boost reference signals. The “boost reference” part means the system uses intake boost to help determine how much fuel to inject, which constrains tuning flexibility compared with modern common-rail control.
fuel pressure
"...a modern common rail where they can change the fuel pressure..."
Fuel pressure is how hard the fuel is pushed into the engine. Higher or lower pressure changes how well the fuel mixes and burns, and modern diesels can adjust it to help the engine run correctly.
Fuel pressure is the hydraulic pressure in the diesel fuel system that directly affects atomization and combustion. In common-rail engines, the ECU can vary fuel pressure, which helps maintain proper combustion even when piston bowl geometry changes.
fuel duration and the start point
"They can change the, the fuel duration and the start point."
Fuel duration is how long the injector stays open, and the start point is when injection begins relative to engine timing. Common-rail control can adjust both, which is crucial for matching combustion to piston bowl design and meeting emissions/driveability targets.
coating on the skirts
"Now, coating on the skirts, a slick coating, that's common. Normally there's an oil film on the cylinder wall that the piston rides on."
The piston has a part called the skirt that slides against the cylinder wall. A slick coating on that skirt helps it move with less friction, which can reduce wear—especially when the engine is working hard.
Piston “skirt” coatings are low-friction surface treatments applied to the lower sides of the piston. They help reduce metal-to-cylinder-wall friction and can improve durability when loads are high and the normal oil film is stressed.
oil film on the cylinder wall
"Normally there's an oil film on the cylinder wall that the piston rides on. ... Cause sometimes your piston gets loaded hard and pushes through the oil film and that, that, you know, slick skirt helps a little bit."
The oil film is the thin layer of engine oil that lubricates the piston as it moves in the cylinder. Under heavy load, the piston can “load hard” enough to thin or break that film, increasing friction and wear—one reason skirt coatings are used.
Teflon on the skirts
"...the Marine early 12 out pistons, they had coating Teflon Teflon on the skirts. We're talking clear back in the 80s."
Teflon is a slick material that can be applied to the piston skirt to reduce friction. The idea is that it helps the piston move more easily and wear less.
Teflon (PTFE-based) coatings are used to create a very low-friction surface on piston skirts. The host notes that this approach existed in earlier factory applications, implying skirt coating benefits aren’t brand-new.
side load
"I don't think, like you said, you're going to side load it. The 12 valves are worse because of the offset bowl."
Side load means the piston is getting pushed sideways against the cylinder wall instead of sliding straight. That can cause extra wear and scuffing. The hosts are debating whether the damage they see is from side loading versus clearance problems.
Side loading is when the piston is pushed against one side of the cylinder rather than moving centrally. This can come from piston design (like bowl shape), crank/rod geometry, or clearance issues. Increased side loading raises the risk of skirt scuffing and coating damage, which is why the discussion connects it to piston clearance and bowl design.
offset bowl
"The 12 valves are worse because of the offset bowl... it seems to kind of push it over to the side a little worse than the common rails."
On a diesel piston, the bowl is the shaped dip on top that helps control combustion. If the bowl is offset, it can change how forces act on the piston as it runs. The hosts are saying that this can make the piston behave worse in terms of loading and damage risk.
The piston bowl is the recessed area in the top of a diesel piston that shapes the combustion chamber and affects how fuel/air mix. An offset bowl can change the combustion and loading pattern on the piston, potentially increasing tendency toward uneven loading. In this segment, the offset bowl is linked to worse conditions for clearance/side loading compared with more common bowl/rail layouts.
matching piston design and clearances to the build
"coatings are great, but nothing's going to survive not enough piston wall for what you're doing... So make sure when you're building your engines, that you have enough a piston wall... you do need enough clearance for what you're doing."
The big idea here is that parts have to fit correctly for your exact engine build. Even if you use good coatings, the engine can still get damaged if the clearances aren’t right. Builders need to set the piston-to-cylinder gap based on what they’re building and how it will be used.
This segment emphasizes that piston coatings and piston design choices only work if the engine builder sets the correct clearances for the specific application. Diesel builds can involve different piston/bowl geometries and operating conditions, so “good enough” clearance can still lead to rubbing and damage. The concept is that successful builds come from correct fitment and tuning the mechanical setup to the intended use.
oil pan
"...on the side where it just all flaked off, like literally flakes in the oil pan. Like, well, I was stupid."
The oil pan is the bottom reservoir for engine oil. If something flakes off inside the engine, it can end up in the oil and get circulated. That can lead to extra wear because the debris acts like grit.
The oil pan is where engine oil collects, and it’s the first place you’d find debris from flaking piston coatings. If coating material ends up in the oil, it can contribute to abrasive wear and clogging of small oil passages. This is why the speaker treats coating failure as a serious reliability issue, not just cosmetic damage.
budding rings
"So we're talking a little bit about piston to wall clearance. Um, I feel like in the past... we kept budding rings and scuffing pistons..."
This sounds like a problem with the piston rings not working correctly. If rings don’t seal and move properly, the engine can burn oil or lose compression. In a build, that’s a big clue something about fitment or clearance is off.
“Budding rings” appears to refer to piston ring problems—likely sticking, poor seating, or ring wear that prevents proper sealing. In the context of clearance and scuffing, it suggests the rings weren’t controlling oil and compression as intended. Diesel builders watch ring behavior closely because ring sealing strongly affects power, smoke, and oil consumption.
torque plate
"...we did not have a nice home where we could do a torque plate home and I feel like with 12 valves, the board distorts a lot."
A torque plate is a tool used to measure the cylinders the way they’ll look when the engine is fully bolted together. Blocks flex when you tighten the head, so measuring without that can make the clearance wrong. Using a torque plate helps the piston fit correctly in the real assembled engine.
A torque plate is a thick metal plate bolted to the engine block during cylinder measurement and honing. It simulates the distortion the block experiences when the head is torqued down, producing more accurate cylinder dimensions. Without it, piston-to-wall clearance can be wrong once assembled, increasing the risk of scuffing or poor ring sealing.
ring seal
"And it has better ring seal, it makes more power... for a street application, you're better off to stay tighter on the clearance as long as it's loose enough that it doesn't rub."
Ring seal refers to how well the piston rings seal the combustion gases and control oil consumption. Better ring seal reduces blow-by, which can increase power and improve piston/ring life. Ring seal is strongly influenced by cylinder geometry, honing quality, and correct piston-to-wall clearance.
oil control (burning oil)
"Like getting your valleys deep enough to hold the oil, but not so deep as going to burn oil."
Oil control is the balance between having enough oil retention for lubrication and not creating conditions that increase oil consumption. The speaker references cylinder “valleys” that hold oil, but warns against making them so deep that they contribute to oil burning. This is tied to honing finish, ring seal, and cylinder geometry.
honing (cylinder honing)
"Like you've learned a ton about honing... This isn't a piston bull design, but it's directly relates to how piston rings and how long your pistons will live."
Honing is the machining process used to create the final cylinder surface finish and geometry after boring. Proper honing ensures the cylinder is round and straight under real clamping conditions (often with a torque plate) and creates the surface texture rings need to seat. It directly affects oil control, ring seal, and piston life.
cross hatch (cylinder honing)
"So the cross hatch in the cylinder holds the oil and that's what lubricates the piston."
Cross hatch is the angled pattern left on cylinder walls during honing. It helps retain oil in the microscopic valleys, improving lubrication during break-in and reducing wear. The pattern and finish also affect how rings seat, which influences longevity and oil control.
engine break-in
"something and when your engine breaks in, the rings knock all the peaks off and all you're left with is the valleys. And so a lot of times people used to call it a plateau home."
Break-in is the early running period after an engine rebuild. The piston rings and cylinder walls “mate” to each other so the rings seal better and lubrication stabilizes.
Engine break-in is the period after a rebuild where piston rings and cylinder walls wear into each other to achieve a stable seal. The surface peaks and valleys created by honing change during break-in as rings conform to the cylinder wall.
plateau honing
"And so a lot of times people used to call it a plateau home. And what they would do is they would, they'd hone it and get it really close to size and they go with a really fine stone at the end and do their last thousandth of clearance with the fine stone."
Plateau honing is a way to finish the cylinder so it doesn’t have super-tall “peaks” to wear down later. That can make ring seating smoother and reduce the amount of coating wear during the first miles.
Plateau honing is a honing approach aimed at leaving a controlled surface texture with reduced peak height after break-in. The idea is to minimize excessive initial wear and help rings seat more predictably by controlling the “valley depth” and surface profile.
400 grit stone
"So if you finish with a really fine 400 grit stone, you have almost zero valley depth in there."
Grit is basically how “fine” or “coarse” the honing abrasive is. A 400 grit stone is relatively fine, and it tends to leave a smoother cylinder surface texture for ring seating.
“Grit” refers to the abrasive particle size on the honing stone, which strongly influences the cylinder wall surface texture. Finer grits (like 400) tend to produce less aggressive surface peaks, which can reduce valley depth after break-in.
special coatings on the rings
"And so if you're doing instead of letting the rings where the top peaks off, which wears the coating on your rings off on your pistons, which is another, another whole topic, but there's like special coatings they put on the rings to help them hold oil and that wears off when it breaks in."
Some piston rings have a special coating to help them seal and lubricate better at first. During break-in, that coating can wear away as the rings start working normally.
Many modern piston rings use surface coatings to improve initial lubrication and ring seating. The speaker notes these coatings can wear off during break-in, and honing/break-in strategy can influence how that wear happens.
diamond CBN stones
"And so if you can pre break in the engine with some diamond CBN stones that can"
Diamond and CBN are very hard abrasive materials used on honing tools. They help the builder cut and finish the cylinder surface so the rings can seat correctly during break-in.
Diamond and CBN (cubic boron nitride) are abrasive materials used on honing stones to cut cylinder walls efficiently. They can help achieve the target cylinder size and surface texture while controlling how the rings seat during break-in.
extreme plateau
"actually do an extreme plateau and they actually knock the peaks off, you're left with the valley depth you want from your aggressive hone, but then you have a smooth surface finish."
When you hone an engine cylinder, you can make the surface rough in a way that helps oil stay there. “Extreme plateau” means the roughest high spots are flattened so the piston rings don’t ride over sharp bumps, but there are still tiny low spots that hold oil. This helps lubrication and reduces wear.
“Extreme plateau” is a cylinder-honing finish strategy where the peaks of the surface are knocked down while leaving controlled valleys. The goal is to reduce ring wear and friction while still retaining enough oil in the valleys for lubrication. It’s typically verified with surface measurements like a profilometer graph.
aggressive hone
"you're left with the valley depth you want from your aggressive hone, but then you have a smooth surface finish. And you can see that on the profilometer graph."
Honing is the process of finishing the inside of the cylinder. An “aggressive” hone makes the surface texture more pronounced so it can hold more oil. But if it’s too rough on the high spots, it can cause extra wear unless you flatten the peaks afterward.
An “aggressive hone” refers to a honing approach that creates deeper valleys and more surface texture for oil retention. In performance diesel/race builds, that oil-holding structure can improve lubrication during ring travel. The tradeoff is that too much peak sharpness can increase friction and wear unless followed by a plateau step.
profilometer graph
"And you can see that on the profilometer graph. Like when you do a before and after like you do your hone, then you do the extreme plateau."
A profilometer is a tool that measures how rough (or smooth) the inside of the cylinder is. The graph shows the tiny peaks and valleys you can’t see by eye. Builders use it to make sure the honing finish matches the plan.
A profilometer graph is a measurement plot of the cylinder’s surface texture (roughness/contour) after honing. It lets builders confirm that the honing process produced the intended plateau/valley structure in microns. This is how “before and after” honing results are quantified rather than guessed.
microns
"And this is microscopic stuff, of course, but it's just measured in microns. So like a good valley on like one of race engines, over a hundred microns deep."
Microns are a very small unit of measurement—think of it as “tiny.” When engine builders talk about microns, they mean the depth of the microscopic grooves in the cylinder wall. Even though it sounds small, it can change how well the rings seal and how the oil lubricates.
Microns are the unit used to describe cylinder surface features like valley depth and peak height. In honing discussions, microns matter because ring sealing and lubrication depend on the microscopic geometry. Small changes in microns can noticeably affect friction, oil control, and wear over time.
oil retention in cylinder wall clearance
"but then that, that holds the oil there. And that's what allows you to have regular piss in a wall clearance. Cause as soon as your piston skirt pushes through the oil and rubs,"
The inside of the cylinder needs the right amount of oil so the piston can slide without overheating. If the piston starts rubbing too much, it gets hotter and expands, which makes the rubbing worse. Good cylinder surface finish helps keep oil where it’s needed, so the clearance and lubrication stay stable.
The segment describes how cylinder honing and surface texture help retain oil, which supports proper piston-to-wall clearance. As the piston skirt pushes through oil and rubs, heat increases and the piston grows, which can worsen contact if clearance is insufficient. This creates a feedback loop where lubrication and thermal expansion must be balanced.
tighter clearances
"and with torque plate hone, so the board is round, you can go tighter, which means there's less piston rock, which means better fuel economy ... If it's a new rattler hone, well, with a torque plate, yeah, you can go a lot tighter."
Tighter clearances mean the piston fits closer to the cylinder wall. If the cylinder is shaped correctly, that can help the rings seal better and reduce friction—so the engine can be more efficient and last longer.
“Tighter” refers to reduced piston-to-cylinder clearance made possible by more accurate cylinder geometry from processes like torque-plate honing. When clearances are controlled and the cylinder is round, rings seal better, which can improve fuel economy, power, and reliability.
sun and hone
"Is this going to be done with a torque plate? All right. Is it a sun and hone? Okay."
“Sun and hone” appears to refer to a honing approach that uses specific stone/abrasive tooling (often described as a “sun” or pre-conditioning step) before/with honing. In context, it’s being compared to torque-plate honing and upgraded stone options to achieve tighter, more consistent cylinder geometry.
diamond stones
"Do they have the upgraded to the diamond stones in the sun? And are they using typical stones? If it's a new rattler hone, well, with a torque plate,"
Diamond stones are special honing tools with diamond grit that help shape and finish the cylinder wall. Better stones can help the engine finish come out more accurate, which helps the rings seal and reduces friction.
Diamond stones are abrasive honing tools with diamond grit, used to cut and finish cylinder surfaces more precisely than some conventional stones. Upgraded stone quality can help achieve the desired surface finish and geometry for ring seating and lower friction.
new rattler hone
"And are they using typical stones? If it's a new rattler hone, well, with a torque plate, yeah, you can go a lot tighter."
A “rattler hone” is a type of honing equipment used to finish the inside of the cylinder. The takeaway is that the machine/setup matters—paired with a torque plate, you can get a more accurate cylinder shape.
“Rattler hone” likely refers to a honing machine/tooling setup that uses a reciprocating/oscillating motion to finish cylinder walls. The speaker is contrasting it with other honing approaches and emphasizing that combining a torque plate with the right honing setup allows tighter clearances.
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