The TRUTH About Online Competitions: Gambling, Dragons’ Den & The £100M Raffle Empire

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Alex, you went from Dragon's Den

to be in a position where you could be one of the dragons.

I run elite competitions,

which is the first online competition company.

But all the things that we see behind us,

all the insane cars and yet one of your first jobs was in Somerville.

I had no money all the time.

I was borrowing 20 quid off a month to go out.

I had a Mercedes on finance, got repossessed.

As you sit here today, what revenue will Elite achieve this year?

100 million.

We've gone into days where we're like,

if we don't sell half a million pound worth of tickets today,

we make a loss.

Is there ever a point where you feel like the gamble?

That's the part I'm obsessed with.

If you think you can put it down on a Friday night,

if you think you can be ungover on a Saturday and not do it,

if you can't be lost on a Monday because you've had a rough night's sleep,

you won't make it.

A couple of guys from Germany said,

I'll give you 10 million for your business.

Yeah, absolutely.

Went into this meeting and the buyer tried to knock five mil off on the other.

And then I went, no, we're leaving.

Walked out and that was it.

Alex, you went from Dragon's Den

to be in a position where you could be one of the dragons.

I find that absolutely unbelievable,

like many people that will be listening today.

So in your own words, who are you and what do you do?

Alex Beckett and I'm a northern lad

and have run elite competitions,

which is the first online competition company.

Which we're going to argue today

because there was other things around potentially like BOTB

and you're going to explain why you're completely different to that.

And competitions are surrounded in questions, legitimacy

and all kinds of other things that people think

when they see one pop up on their Facebook and Instagram feeds.

But all the things that we see behind us,

all the insane cars, this insane building,

and yet one of your first jobs was in Somerfield.

Yeah, yeah, never one for education really.

So didn't really do too well at school.

Always wanted to just work,

so I just wanted money so I could go out with my mates and stuff like that.

So at 16, just left school

and then I just went to work at Somerfield full time.

Knowing that I had a niggle though for other things, you know.

That was never the end goal,

but at the time it was like, I don't want to go to college.

As you sit here today, what revenue will elite

achieve this year?

100 million.

What does it feel like saying that on a podcast?

I think like if you go back to early days,

me 28, I started it, so I'm 35 now.

And well, no, we've been going 10 years,

but the first two years are like negligible.

As any business owner will know, it's pretty much pointless.

I don't feel like I get loads of pinch me moments.

So people say, oh, Al, you bought a million pound car

or you bought a 500,000 pound car.

And I'm like, you know, and they're like,

oh, congratulations or whatever.

I'm like, that's not, that doesn't, I don't care about that.

I mean, yeah, if you've got the money,

you're going to buy nice things.

That happens to everybody who gets money, right?

But it's not like you don't end up pinching yourself.

You're just going with the journey.

So ours is, I want to be the most successful competition company

in the country.

We want to be a household name until we get that.

I don't feel like I've achieved it.

So yeah, we've got X amount of millions, whatever,

and we own all our stock outright and stuff like that.

But it doesn't mean that we've completed it.

It doesn't mean that we're any more successful than anyone else.

It just means our journey is a bit further on.

Do you know what I mean?

Where do you go most days?

56789 o'clock when you leave this place.

Where do you go as your stop gap?

Stop gap is the pub.

So we go to, so the routine is I'm not one for getting up at 2am

and going to the gym.

Yeah, I don't know.

I've never believed it.

I see all the Instagram memes like, yeah, you know,

this is my, I do 20 hours working and all that.

No, I get up at 5 in the morning.

I go downstairs.

I have a cigarette.

I'm not promoting smoking.

It's horrendous and a coffee.

So I make coffee.

I get on my computer.

I do an hour's worth of work then.

And then I go upstairs, get changed, come to work.

Obviously in the office, film a load of content,

which is laborious when you have to do it every single day,

selling tickets.

I've been selling tickets for 10 years.

And then about six o'clock whenever we finish our day,

I go to the pub and I go to the pub on my own.

And I have done for about eight years,

literally eight years on my own.

So everyone goes, so I tell the staff in,

some of the staff are 21 years old.

So I just nip for a pint on the way home.

And they say, do you not just look like a saddo in the corner?

And I said, no, I don't care what anybody thinks of what I look like there.

I'm just like, digest in the day.

What have we done that day?

Catch up on my phone and then make a plan for tomorrow.

And I do that before I go home and get the chaos off the misses

and all that.

Do you have the same group in the pub?

No one.

It's on my own.

I go to the pub on my own.

Don't go there.

I'm picturing you at a bar with a load of other guys that like you see at the end

of their working days, just sat there all flipping talking.

You just sit there and forth on my own.

Yeah.

So there's no group at the pub.

I literally just go have a pint on my way home to D.

D and I don't like the word stress.

So it's not stress like D busy myself from the day and the spreadsheets and the

meetings and blah, blah.

And I just go on my own and I chill out for an hour.

How different was going to the pub 10 years ago?

What was you thinking about then?

Game piss.

So yeah, like obviously like 10 years ago when it was about, you know, I don't

know though, no, I do myself an injustice because even then I'd manifest in my

spare time how to do something and make a success of it.

Like, so everything, I had many failed businesses before this one and every

downtime I'd had, I'd be doing something.

I'd be trying some out.

I'd be selling something bit of Delboy on the side, you know, be doing something.

I'd be thinking how I get out of my job because I didn't like working.

So that then just goes forward and I'm doing the same thing.

I feel no different 10 years later going to the pub for a pint on the way home.

Exactly the same.

So what was your pet as a picture of your childhood?

Because it seems like you were on a fairly normal path.

You're in summer field.

You're working.

There's a key few words you've used manifestation thinking about the future

and we'll figure out where that comes from.

Yeah.

So start by just painting us a photo of what life looked like growing up.

Yeah.

So from a very normal, um, middle class family, uh, grew around here,

Northern, we're not out in the sticks, lived in a place called Colt and it's

quite, it's quite a small town.

Um, and like I said, just went through school, good couple of mates.

I was never a popular one at school.

I was middle, you know, middle guy, like just the normal guy.

Um, but always I was the guy that was selling sweets on the, uh, in the playground.

And I bet you'll find that with most business owners.

Like I was the guy who was going to a shop, trying to put a quid on every

sweet and, and selling it.

And I think that was always the thing.

So education was always for me quite secondary as a thought.

So I'd go to school to try and make money, even when I went like start of secondary

school.

Um, and then obviously after school, my mates who are really close to my

friendship group, they went to college and carried on education and went on to uni.

But I just, I started college and I just couldn't get on with it again.

I was like, I just, I don't know.

Not that it makes me sound arrogant.

If I say, I don't like being taught that because that's not the way I am.

I'm a really nice guy to everyone as well, but I just didn't believe what the

teachers were teaching because I wasn't interested in any of the subjects.

Zero, no subjects as it was interesting.

Will you dissecting it?

Like, I wonder who's giving him that module.

I wonder where that's come from.

I wonder like, is that the kind of how you were thinking about it in that

sector, rather than the actual stuff in it?

Maybe like, maybe I think the thought process was more the fact that without

consciously thinking it, I think I was like, I'm never going to use that in my life.

And that was just going, oh, well, you can't bother with it then.

And then it's more like, I can't bother.

So I think I didn't, and I realized I wasn't going to use it.

But I wasn't thinking that time wasn't going, oh, I can't be asked with this

because I'm never going to use it.

That wasn't the thing.

But I think subconsciously I was going, I don't, my brain doesn't need to absorb

this information.

What it will absorb is what's my set of wheels that I'm trying to sell on eBay

bid or put them in it because that finishes at 421 and I need to be checking that.

Was there a set of wheels involved because you're into cars?

Always into cars.

Yeah.

So when I thought, well, no earlier 12, 13 started motocross sold

Dubai racing and 16 or grass, which is driving, driving minis round in a

circle on a field.

This is the only thing we could afford.

So I had a 650 quid mini with the trailer and everything, but I'd used to

tell me to the tracks at 16 before that was motocross.

And then I went kind of went back to motocross after that.

So yeah, it was always like, cars, motorbikes, camper vans, that,

that kind of, that was always a bit of a passion.

And then it's funny that because now it's not just cars that you're

after, is it that you started with motocross bikes?

If I'm right.

Yeah.

You've had camper vans.

You've had everything that you could possibly think go through these doors in

this building, but that kind of relates to those earliest years.

Did you know then that whatever it was that you were destined to do,

had to involve an engine?

Hmm.

Are you willing to do kind of anything?

Anything.

Yeah.

Honestly, I think my obsession, although I, although I think I like cars,

not a bothered.

You know what I mean?

If I, if I strip it back, more suck, I'm obsessed with success.

That's it.

There's nothing else that bothered.

I'm, I mean, the cars were amazing.

Yeah.

When you've got women, whatever, I had to drive a van every day.

I genuinely drive a van.

I know I pulled up a Morales voice today because you were coming by driver T seven

transporter every day.

Like it's one of those, you think that you want that thing.

And then you think that that's what driving you.

Well, really it's just for me, it's just complete obsession about the business.

I'm just completely obsessed and beside with it.

Always have been.

Do you think that's because you finally found a business that gives back to you

and that you're in love with them?

This is the one you made work because this wasn't your first business, right?

Yeah.

So a lot of this stuff was like, I was just buying and selling.

And then, and then so I'm going to digress from the question a little bit

because I'm going to tell you that before I had Elite comps, we had a, a watch

company.

So basically we, I just ripped off AP and Rolex.

Yeah.

And I just went to a Chinese supplier and I went, is the design, can you make some

of them, got them in, started trying to sell them, didn't sell one, got a season

to sys letter from AP and went, right, that's that over.

Great.

Yeah.

He was, I was just like, brilliant.

You know what I mean?

I've just wasted six months or something.

But what, like, I think you're right.

I was never bothered about it.

Like going on a shoot with a model to this is, I'm talking iPhone one or whatever.

Literally like that.

Going on a shoot with a model, I was just never passionate about it.

So although raffles is raffles and you can raffle anything.

Um, with it means, um, I think with it starting with motors is, is probably why

I liked it a little bit more.

Because you look very different now.

It's amazing how time moves on and you develop in many different ways to how

you did when you stepped on the set of dragons then.

Yeah.

What got you in that room in front of those dragons?

So we, so they, so the, we can go into the whole, like the competition

industry wasn't this industry back then.

So we went on in 2017.

I came up with the idea for this way of raffle in 2016.

So in 2017, the only way competitions were around is, you know, as you've

seen TV competitions, radio competitions, BOTB do spot the ball or did spot the

ball, they've moved into more raffles now.

Um, so there was, there wasn't this digital raffle legally as well.

Well, you know, you could just do it illegally, but there was, there was no

legal route to raffle, you know, and there was, there wasn't this route of

competitions.

So I basically came up with this idea and it was a motocross track one day.

And I thought, I want a new bike, but I've got no money.

I never had any money.

Like I was, I was the guy, I had no money all the time.

I was borrowing 20 quid off mom to go out every Friday.

Like I've just had no money.

And well, you know, I'll spend everything I've got, get it back, spend everything.

So I had a motocross bike and I wanted a new one or I wanted a change.

And I went to the track and I thought, you know what, if I can get like 50 lads

to give me 50 quid, I'll just let one of them take the bike home.

And then I've got my two and a half grand for the new bike.

And I just did it like pretty much instantly.

I was like, I was easy, you know, obviously not right.

You know, you can't do that.

But, um, I went, ah, that was, that was easy.

I pretty much just got rid of my bike and no one bothered and they've just

spent 50 quid and someone walked over it.

So, and then I kind of came home and I thought that could be a proper business.

And at the time I was on probably 25 grand a year, I was 26 years old and I was

a project engineer making turbo actuators for cars.

So I did a mechanical, uh, engineering bike, BTEC or whatever they are,

like one day a week.

And then I was, I was training to be a, you know, an engineer.

Um, so, and then I went home and I thought, I went to my mate.

I went, well, how about I sell your bike for you?

I'll try and do it the same way, like straight away.

Like same day.

I said, well, we'll wash your bike off cause I ain't got one anymore.

And we'll try and do it on Facebook.

So it was when Facebook live just came out.

So I don't know what, the year and I've not even, I've not even looked

it up, but I, in that, I recall 2017, 2017.

Okay.

So I recalled it was just when Facebook live had just started.

So it was a new, new feature.

And I thought, go on, mate.

I said, you stand with the camera and I'll stand with the bike and we'll go live.

So anyway, went live 2000 viewers on my personal page live.

I was like, what the hell?

What's going on here?

Anyway, I went, right guys, it's 40 quid.

If you want to enter and there's whatever, 16 numbers or something.

DM me in PayPal, me the money and one of you is going to win it sold out like

within 10 minutes.

I was like, mate, we've just made 500 quid on your bike.

Like what you wanted to watch these elite for.

And there's a bit of profit.

And buddy, that was easy.

And then that's the start of, start of the elite competitions.

And that's the store.

Then in my opinion, it'll be argued by other people.

The start of the competition.

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And the tree, you always get told to walk before you can run.

It's the same that's gone around for so many years, but you've mentioned the word

manifest so many times already in this conversation.

Was there like a little picture of your brain?

Just a little one, just for point one of a second of this.

Even at that time, what it could become, where you could go from that concept.

Did you already put that vision of bang?

No, always the next day, day or next couple of weeks.

I've never, never think any further ahead than a couple of, a

couple of months.

It's mad.

And especially when you're that age and I'm not from money, a

business background.

I'm not from building spreadsheets a year in advance.

I'm shit at my accounts.

You know, like, I think I was just thinking about sell that next bike, sell

that next bike, set, you know, move on to a car.

So I never visioned this.

I think going into three years, four years of a lead, I always said that to my

ex-business, I've got two ex-business partners and said to, I remember saying to

one of them, mate, if we ever get, ever get anywhere near a million quid for this

business ever, like as in we were just saying, imagine someone put a million

quid in your pocket.

Like I remember for the first five years, that was the dream.

And then now we're, you know, we're doing 100 million turn over and we've got

very, we've got decent net profits compared to the rest of the industry.

I've run a very tight ship.

Um, but yeah, it's, I think I just, it could be a billion quid and you'll

ask me again, I'll remember when I came to your showroom and yeah, it was amazing.

But what, what you've got now when we own like a frigging city, because it's a

billion quid turnover.

And I'll say, no, I just thought about next week selling that next house out.

So if you come from a fairly normal middle class background, what was giving

you the drive to sell the suites to be different, to push forward, to not

stay in summer field?

What was giving that to you?

Where did that come from?

I think to be, to be fair, to be fair to my dad.

Yeah.

My dad, my dad had a back everything I do.

So he's a great guy.

I love him.

He now actually works for me.

And, um, he's always been the same.

Tried a few businesses, always failed, probably a little bit behind digitally

because of his age.

So he couldn't really keep up.

Um, but he would always try a business, always really wanted to own his own business.

And then he ended up landing a pretty decent job, digital sales director, but he's

a salesman and I was, and I think it was always just that sell that I liked.

I liked to sell.

And then, and then I'm weird because even when I'm not very computer literate, I

taught myself spreadsheets and I would log every bit of profit I make on anything.

So even if I'm just selling something, or even if even down to now, I build a

house for 2 million pounds a log 10 pound receipts.

So I'm terrible at my annual accounts, terrible, but I know exactly how much

profit I've made on everything.

You know what I mean?

I think it's just that obsession.

Maybe you're not terrible.

Well, no, maybe not actually.

Maybe you're telling yourself.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because you want to big the team up because one thing that

I noticed straight away, and this isn't like blowing a trumpet, but I always go

and talk to teens from anywhere that they're features a team and I walk in

the office and you should have seen a look on their faces.

Well, I walked in and I said, right, anything you want to ask him that get

your sack, ask me and I'll ask him.

But none of them, they were just sort of in a zone of like emptiness.

Like, I don't think there's anything that I couldn't kind of ask him was

anything that they was everything that they all said is the goal is the building

that team and the way you just were talking about your annual accounts there.

Is it the fact that you've believed to get the business to where it is today

that you needed to employ people better than yourself at doing every given role?

Oh, I see this a lot and I don't think I agree with it.

I don't I don't think and no offense my team.

I don't think we do employ people who can do everything not better than me,

but like complete wizards at their one thing to learn and they'll grow here

because we treat them so well.

So in 10 years, I've never had one person quit in 10 years.

How mad's that for an employer?

I employ 45 people now.

Not one person's ever quit.

Like that's because everyone is treated well.

I turn up every day and I'm there from every day to get messages from me at

six a.m. and it's not hard selling.

Sometimes it's really nice.

I decided yesterday we're all going to the pub and out for tea tomorrow.

We're going to Marbella in August.

I took them to Dubai in Feb just gone.

Vegas last last summer, you know, and it's not just the holidays

and it's not just the bonuses.

I pay more monthly bonuses.

So company structure, monthly bonuses, the validers get paid if the company as well.

Bonus. So they got a very good, you know, base salary,

but then even the validers get the same as my top markers.

So what taught you to do that?

I don't know. That's just me.

I mean, I don't want to blow my own trumpet, but I treat people nice.

I generally got quite a nice personality.

I like people seeing people do well.

I want them all to get new cars.

I want them all to, you know, and I'm like, I'm doing well.

I'm going to share a bit out or I want I like spending time with them.

I literally like spending time with my staff.

I will work.

So like we're here, we'll go and have a drink or we'll go and have something to eat

or we'll go on holiday.

I'll literally we came back from Dubai and I said,

that's one of the best holders I've ever been on.

But all that there could paint a picture to someone listening,

someone that thinks I could pick up the phone, go and get a car and SOR parking

in front of a warehouse building looks like it's mine.

Chut a thousand pound on Facebook ads

and I'm going to be able to take my team of 40 to Dubai in five years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's going to spark that interest like it probably would have sparked your

interest ten years ago.

But how different is the space that you've created?

One point 4000000000 pound industry compared to when you ruffled your first

motocross. Yeah.

So I think we're going to touch 2000000000 this year as an industry,

which is mental, you know, one point four last year or one point seven this year or

something. But I think the difference is now and I genuinely this is

genuine and we do very well.

I don't I wouldn't start again now.

I wouldn't start again in the same space now.

I didn't get lucky because I came up with the idea at the start.

So it wasn't luck, but I was a bit lucky that there was no marketing going on in

this industry now. So if you went right, I'm going to buy a car or I'm going to get

a car on a so on.

You're meant to own all your prizes for one.

So that's not a great start.

But if you went to go borrow a car, if you may, and said,

mate, I'm going to get you 25 grand back for that.

Soon as you put that the raffle live, you should stand on it and you should give it

away regardless to get sales.

Now, the problem is because we spend so much with Mer and our prizes are so much

better than yours. No one's going to come and play.

We've got 2000000 customers.

Like it. Why would anybody go to someone smaller with a lesser prize who's bidding

more heavily on marketing with regardless of the platform?

And also we've got a brand name.

We've given away £140 million with the prizes.

We've you know, we've been here for 10 years.

Do you know what I mean?

I think there's a couple of big boys now in the space that are just are just going

to dilute the small ones, unfortunately.

What's different about placing a bet for a Lamborghini Aventador Rose

Turtle Lamborghini Tamario?

Both cars are probably launching just after you're listening to this.

If it's at the start.

Yeah, live now, actually, the Temerero.

What's different about placing a bet on one of those than me

placing a bet on Lewis Hamilton to win at the weekend?

Yeah. So obviously raffles is fixed odds.

So, you know, you so they rarely get 100% sold out.

Anyway, let's say there's a million tickets on the Temerero.

You know, if you buy one, you've got one in 1000000 chance.

So compared to actual gambling, it's a it's a way of fixed odds

placing some money.

Yeah. And having a fixed chance.

So, you know, your chance straight away.

Where's how what if Lewis Hamilton just crashes first corner?

You know what I mean?

You can't you you can't if you put 100 quid on Lewis Hamilton to win the F1

at weekend, it's the sports book that's worked out what your odds are.

Now, that'll always be weighted towards the towards the casino

or the gambling company or whatever, won't it?

Whereas us, you can see how much the prize value is exactly how much

we're going to take in revenue in gross revenue if we sell it out.

And then you decide whether you think that's good value or not.

Quick stop gap.

If someone is watching this in the first seven days of this podcast

right now, what layer can they win?

Right now, Lamborghini Temerario.

That's the one because he's the newest and no one has won

five P for a 500 grand car.

That's what you want. You want to win any of those going to be available.

Yeah. The GT3 RS is being given away with a house at the end of this month.

So that's literally on right now.

Only a house just to get a house.

Oh, you get a G wagon with it as well.

OK. I'm the GT3 RS.

Oh, fair enough.

And three CS is next week, so that'll be live as well.

And if someone is listening to this, that's beyond that seven days

and is thinking, damn it, I just missed it to Mario.

What should they do?

They'll probably something even bigger and better.

So just keep going over to the site, having a lot of spend a few pence

and try and win a million quid or so.

Do you think you've ever had a trouble

because there's definitely a stigma with this in this world

of people just not believing that you're legit?

Mate, every now, even now, every week, every draw.

Scam, scam, scam, scam, scam.

You fixed it. Everyone's my brother.

Everyone's my mate.

You know, he's the presenter who's actually won every time, every single time.

Is that the thing that gets to you the most?

No. But if I've learned one thing, I don't read any comments.

I'm on every single bit of marketing personally as a founder, running or paid,

or, you know, or maybe most of our paid content.

And I don't I don't read any comments.

I tell the guys, if they've got some it's someone's been really harsh about me.

Don't read it. I said, I don't care, mate.

Like they'll come and try and show me.

I go, don't show me.

I don't want to baffle my head with what someone else is just going to say about me

because that's I got time for that.

If I'm thinking about someone slagged me off.

Yeah. And I just give that half an hour thought.

I've just wasted half an hour of my day thinking about something completely pointless.

And it has absolutely zero effect because there's 10 other people who think you're dead nice.

There's a million other people who want to win a car.

We're just like, well, I'll just chuck a fire away, mate.

I was fine. I'm dead happy for the winner.

It's the one negative comment.

That you think about for the rest of the day.

So is the scam legitimacy stuff got worse to now or better?

I would say early days, nobody thought it was a scam because it was just me.

Personally raffling.

Then you get a lot of I think there's a thousand operators now or 100 in the hundreds.

There's a hundred operators, you know, say a hundred.

But I don't know what the actual figure is.

The problem is a few of them will be dodgy.

You know what I mean? I don't know who. how.

So they're then ruining it for the rest of us who have actually got very decent companies.

We pay a lot of tax.

We pay a lot, you know, we do a lot for or we do loads for the community.

I'll tell you about that in a minute.

So I think they've got worse because the industry's got bigger.

We have had some recent stuff come in like the VCOC.

I'm not sure if you're aware of it. I can I can run you through it,

which is helping legitimize the whole industry.

And also, I think as the companies get bigger, so you've got like a top 10, maybe

as the companies get bigger, we're getting it.

We're going to start getting it less and less.

But I think at the start, not too bad.

The last five years, yeah, but it's going to tail off now

because people know we cannot afford to rig a competition.

Why would I rig a competition?

Even if it was for a million pound house, when I've got 100 million pound turnover

business riding on it, I've got 50 staff.

We've got assets worth over 10 million.

But you know what I mean? Like, why would you do that?

Have you had customers that have won twice?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

We've had a yeah.

We had one. We had one recently, a guy called Christian.

And he won. This was quite mad because he wanted a Porsche.

And we found out after he won his first Porsche, he wanted a Porsche.

So he won a 24 plate Porsche Carrera, nice new Porsche Carrera.

Lovely. Came up, picked it up.

He said, I spent 100 quid on the draw.

He does them on the draw day at the end, 100 quid.

Like he's in a bundle, like at 40% off, he gets loads of tickets.

I went, oh, Sam, mate, the Tuesday after he won a Rolex data on a platinum.

It's like an 80 round watch.

He said, I spent 100 quid.

Like he did the same bundle, the 40% off bundle he gets you 100 quids with.

And then a week later, he won a 22 or 23 Porsche Turbo S.

Worth more than the first Porsche.

So I think within about six weeks, he won three, spent 100 quid every time.

And then we're like, I mean, oh, I'm dead happy for the guy.

I'm like, no, that is the biggest nightmare.

Yeah. Is that a nightmare marketing scenario for you?

Or is that a dream marketing?

No, it's not. Not good.

Not not not great.

I mean, you would rather not.

And the thing is at the minute, there was a competitor

who's had quite a big problem with this just recently.

And we I'm in a bit of a decision process where if someone wins big,

do I have a cooling off period where they can't win big again for a few months?

But then is that taking their rights off them as in because they want to spend?

I don't know.

But it makes no difference.

But the probability is it will happen.

And people then just get the umber about it.

So have you ever banned customers?

Yeah, we're banned customers for overspend.

We exclude it flags flags up now on our system when you hit a certain

criteria, comment what it is.

It's literally like a thousand pound in a week.

It's not a lot. I mean, it sounds a lot of money.

Don't tell them.

It sounds a lot of money, doesn't it?

But you know, it is.

Well, you hit red flags and then our customer service team reach out.

And then we've also got self exclusion, cooling off periods.

You're not allowed to just reinstate your account after you've pressed it.

And, you know, we've got loads of stuff in there now.

And the biggest and best change we ever did.

Was drop our ticket prices.

So instead of going from 20 quid a ticket, we dropped our tickets to in the

pence and that's then allowing everybody and anybody to enter.

So you're not capping it to just people who've got a spare 20 quid.

Now you've just got a couple of pence in your account.

Just have 11 ticket.

Because I think that's the thing that kind of baffles people a little bit

that maybe don't think into it.

It's the same degree as we're having this conversation, which you got 280

grand Lamborghini there.

Yeah.

But you could technically put 19 20 p on that car and maybe win.

Yeah.

And then I think people go, yeah, how's that possible?

I don't understand it.

They have a 10 second fleeting thought without thinking about it in depth.

They go, like, how's that possible?

Yeah. Is that true?

So you can can you actually just check out one ticket for 19 p?

Yeah, yeah, 100 percent.

And the Temera area is five p a ticket.

It's a 457,000 bound car and that's five.

Five p a ticket.

He's about one ticket.

He's going, well, one ticket cost me more.

I think it cost me like 20 p per chance, actually, you know, in all the fees and stuff.

But yeah, you can buy one.

There's no minimum spend.

And we had a guy.

I'm just trying to think what we drew.

We drew something on Friday and I can't remember we were doing it going loads of

winners and he spent like 75 p or something.

It was something mega.

He had like five tickets on a comp that was three p.

It was like 15 or 20 p or something.

And he won whatever we drew on Friday.

It was like 100 grand, 100 grand prize.

What is a comp maybe in your earliest years of starting that you launched it?

Maybe it was something a bit crazy, a bit big.

And you thought, do you have luck if you had luck at this could make a break?

Yeah, loads times.

Even now, like we like did they're the risks?

I don't I don't give a shit.

Honestly, I don't.

I'm just like, do it.

Don't care.

I'll spend every penny in the bank to buy that prize.

Does well.

We keep going for dumb, whatever.

Not bothered.

So yeah, we had loads of them.

First car was a BMW 320i like on a 17 play.

It was like quite new at the time.

Did the first car.

Don't think it did that well, actually, because everyone's used motorbikes.

And then Lamborghini Huracan 2015.

It was and we did that in probably 2018, 2019 at Christmas.

Did quite well.

Actually, I think I actually sold out and we're like, well, but I was like 150 grand at the time.

I'll have 150 grand.

You know, I'm like, maxing out everything I can get from the bank or whatever,

or my payments are 21 days in a row.

So I'm just like pulling everything I can to pay for this one hero prize.

Christmas 2018.

I'm just going fucking all that works.

It's always a Lambo.

Yeah, people put everything on a Lambo.

It always starts that supercar, that thing.

It's always a flipping.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Was it special getting your first Lambo for you?

I know you're all about the business and the drive.

Yeah, absolutely.

You get that fuck moment.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, definitely.

I think I remember so that the raffle prize is probably not so much, but on a personal level,

I do remember a couple of key moments that made me think, oh, wow, like this is decent.

It's only recently I don't you get to a point of not caring because you've won this business to go,

Bosh, where's it the start when you're not when you're just about starting to earn money?

You're like, oh, my God, is this actually what it feels like to have a little bit of spare cash?

So I remember like we were about probably three years in, me and business partner James at the time.

I went, right, we got a bit of spare cash, but we can't afford to buy cars outright personally.

We were driving a van, so I had a 03 plate, Vivaro, a Renault traffic, all sticking up early.

And that's why I used to drive as my car and everything for the first 34 years.

So we got to that.

And I went, right, mate, let's get ourselves a couple of cars.

I got a 16 plate Range Rover, just a diesel Range Rover.

And then, yeah, this is like the best thing ever.

And I'm like, living up muntads, I was driving this Range Rover on the drive,

look like a gangster.

And then Jimmy bought an M5, the newish M5 at the time.

But we had them on finance.

So I was paying like 500 quid a month for a mine out of the business.

They was paying 500 quid a month for it, it's out of the business.

So that one there, I was like, we've actually just borrowed 50 grand on these cars and we're paying for a monthly.

That was amazing.

That was like off first treat.

And then after that, I remember a couple of years after that,

I personally went and bought myself an SVR outright for like 70 grand.

This is probably 20.

I think the post was actually 2018.

So I've got my dates a bit mixed up or 2019.

Anyway, it was good for you.

It was good for you years in three or four years in.

And I went and bought myself one from Alexander's Prestige in North York.

It's that number.

No, it's not.

Yeah.

And it was like 70 grand.

And I remember I had the picture with the guy and I had my plaque with my name on it.

I was like, oh my, I remember driving it just going, oh, you know, I made it.

Is any car a bit like a car dealer?

Because you are also basically a car dealer in some respects.

Yes.

We'll go into that because you've got a whole other side of the business that sort of does that.

Yeah.

Is any car ever yours or are you always thinking the back of your head, that's going in a bundle?

Obviously, anything I buy out of the business is the business's assets every time and I don't drive them.

So when they come in, nothing gets driven.

The temporary will never been out in, apart from content and everything.

I don't drive them.

I keep it all separate on purpose.

I like having my own assets.

So I've got my own car collection now and I buy stuff.

So no, anything that comes in the business just stays here.

This is what I mean.

Like everyone, I don't just go, I'm going to raffle off a car that I've been smoking

around in for a month or I'm going to keep smoking around it.

It's live on the website.

We're like, I'm like super OCD.

Everything is here.

It's in the showroom.

It's all insured all the time.

It don't go anywhere.

So no, I don't enjoy the prizes.

I just buy them and that's it.

When did you find yourself on Dragon's Den?

When?

Yeah.

2017.

And why did you step into that room?

Was it to get money or was it for content?

I'd say we went on Dragon's Den for exposure.

I think it was exposure.

If I'm setting my mind back now and I'm going, why did I apply for it?

Because we needed more clicks on the website.

So applied for it, got through, went on, presented well, got a couple of offers

and then basically we just ignored each other.

So fun fact is about 75% of the deals shown on Dragon's Den don't go through.

So they just lose contact and you just never end up hearing from them.

So what was your deal that was on the table?

Do you remember that moment?

Surely mum, dad, everybody would have had it on the TV.

Yeah, it was amazing.

I remember it was like looking at the website and there was a couple of thousand people

live on the site as we were watching it.

Crash the site actually, pretty shit.

But we got a load of sign ups.

The was 50 grand for 20%.

So yeah, that would be worth quite a lot.

And did you know when you're walking into that room, you were never giving that away?

No, I think I would.

I think if they would have pushed it there, I think I'd have done it.

You know, just a young lad, I never knew it was going to turn into this or any bigger.

So I had taken it.

You know, if they'd, if Touker and Tej, if they'd have carried on,

they would have a lot of millions from their 25 grand now.

You ever spoke to them?

I haven't even seen them since.

I haven't spoken to them since.

No, that'd be a good baby, wouldn't it?

Yeah, the Brew Dogs Lab did similar, didn't they?

Where it was like they missed, they didn't get investment and then it was like worth.

Was it Tangled Teaser?

Yeah, Tangled Teaser guy was like a billion or something, wasn't it?

We can't always get it right as you've probably learned as well, which leads me on nicely to

what is a comp that's maybe nearly broke here and how many of them don't actually meet what

the cost price was for you, like a GT3 or GT3 RS?

Yeah. Well, I mean, last, the last year or so, we're doing really well.

We're, you know, we're selling, we're getting the comps where we need to.

The team's amazing.

Our brand is just growing.

So we're doing really well.

I would say year, so say these nine years of trading, first couple of years, decent,

hit COVID, decent, and then three year, we had a three year low.

And it was when we were turned over 12 mil.

So we're turning over a million a month, which is a hell of a lot of money, by the way, and not to

be sniffed at, was going 12 mil, mil for three years.

Now, the problem is by the third year, we're spending a lot more money to get the 12 million

than the first time we got 12 3 years ago.

Do you know what I mean?

Because, you know, you dial in your customers, cost is going up, you're spending more on advertising.

Now, in those times, I've got a spreadsheet of every competition we've ever done, one spreadsheet,

a master spreadsheet, and there's loads of red marks made, lost, lost.

Thing the worst one is about 100 grand is our worst ever loss is like 100 grand.

And we just have to give the prize away.

I thought it would be more than that to be fair.

Not too bad. We managed to put, mate, you're grafting though at the end.

You know, when you, we've gone into days where we're like, if we don't sell half a million

pound worth of tickets today, we make a loss. I imagine that's six in the month I go,

but all five, imagine that all five, if I don't revenue 500 grand today, I'll lose whatever

the shortfall is because I'm 500 grand minus on a comp.

So were you more panicky five years ago and you're more calm now just from repeat, repeat,

repeat, repeat, you wake up and you feel less stressed about the day.

Yeah, definitely. I think more calm about the sales because we kind of know the coming.

We've got a better strategy now, but still just as on the ball, like maybe even more,

which I'm checking revenue 50 times a day. Honestly, 50 times a day for that day is

ridiculous. Might obssessed, but a couple of years ago, we were doing everything we can to

just sell tickets. Like literally, we're just like, oh my God, stressing all day, every day.

The problem was it was a depressive place to be at times. You just about get the comp there

and then you go to mall and you just about get the comp there and then you get your accounts in

and you've spent too much. So you've actually made a loss for the month and you're like,

you know what I mean? And this would be, I'm lucky that we've had a very successful business in the

longevity and some businesses not even in the comp industry losing money. It must be, I mean,

we've had a few and I'm like, this is horrendous. The feeling must be horrendous.

What feeling in the air? What weather? What situation or month? Yeah.

Is a bad competition time. I don't like anyone blame that. I just saying no. So if people like

my guys all like some of this agree with me, yeah, no, it's fair. I mean, I just, if we have a bad

day yesterday or we have a bad month last month, I don't let seasonality. seasonality

impair it. I just say no, you're not right. There's a sticker there that says football fever 2026.

There's a carball cut out of a player in that. Surely if you put all the football stuff together

and wrap it up a vendor door looking like you could kick it, that is going to be a better time to

sell around the world cup than not the world cup. But then just think somewhere else when it's the

world cup song. So yeah, brilliant. That's you cutting through. You're making some noise on your

paid marketing is going to look better than the next person. Brilliant. You'll sell tickets. So

when it's not the world cup next month, what are you doing then? And then you just got to answer

that and then you answer that and you do it again. And then what do you do the month after? Well,

it's summer holidays for the kids sound. What's the month after Halloween or I don't know, whatever's

going on in the world, make it relevant and just pull out your content for it. It's quite funny

because you're in the business of gambling to gamble. And I can't even imagine even today alone,

the eye watering sum that you must have spent on a platform like Metta.

Is there ever a point where you feel like the gambler like I'm just putting more money in the

machine, more money in the machine. And you've probably got now systems and people in place

for your row ass and stuff like that. But is there a point where you had to be like, oh,

I've just got to walk away from the ad spend today or this week or this month. Is that the

thing that's the toughest part? I think that that's that's the part I'm I'm obsessed with.

I like that. Yeah. That is the part I like. I like the the the fact that I want to spend as much

money as I can today as long as the returns there. So I'll push everything as hard as it can. I'll

spend as much as I can to returns on there. I'll beat myself up to get it where it needs to

change the content, change the strategy. And I think I love that side. I think that's what

you know, my ex business partner, that's the side he hated. He hated the comps not getting there.

He hated chasing it all the time. He hated chasing the revenue. He wanted to quiet alive.

Fair play. You know, but I'm just the opposite. I love it. I love chasing every day.

So why was he on that journey with you?

Just I needed five grand at the start of elite competitions. So so I remember it very well.

Actually, this was there's a couple of things that happened at the start of elite.

And one of them was I have this idea lads in the group chat, the same group chat that I've got

now. And I said to lads, I've got this idea. Right, what is it? And they're all like, and I

swear my mate will tell you one of my best mates has said, not a wonder one of your ideas, Alex.

He actually said like, no one do this, you'll just lose your money. Because this was just me.

I've got a new idea a week. So I said, anyone got five grand, I need to build a website.

And by our first like, you take your motorbikes nothing zero, no zero, literally zero, nothing,

nothingness. I had to stop you being like, I can do this. No, yeah, it's not five grand. Yeah,

yeah, literally, I just needed five grand. I had a Mercedes on finance got repossessed,

like caught on six payments on my drive, like repossessed the off my drive, I have nothing.

So I said to lads, right, anyone want to do this?

Jimmy's the only one who said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask my dad whether I can borrow it. Jimmy

didn't have any money. So he asked his dad, he borrowed five grand off his dad, we made the first

website, he got 30% on that day because he took the risk with me. So he was on the journey,

letting me run it obviously. And then he was just there sounding board for one to

graph to, you know, come in, count the balls out. We used to have to count 1500 balls

in a boat like ping pong balls. I wouldn't explain that yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 12 you know,

we got 1500 balls that go in a ball machine when it was one to 1500. And you've got to put them in

order so you can show the tubes to the camera. Mate, there you go. Say he never stops. No, no, he

never stops. No. But we had to count out 1500 every day. See, they're sat like putting ping

pong balls in order 1500 every day, like it's hilarious. So he was on the journey for that,

you know, a job, thought it was a good idea, put five grand in, and I managed to sell him the idea.

And he did very well out there. And he clearly would have because of where the company's got to

and the journey you've been on. Yeah. But were you always conflicting mindsets where you're like

so 100 mile an hour entrepreneur, did you ever clash even as mates even talking about him as a

person? Yeah, people still clash. Absolutely. Yeah, they do. And I may I know a lot of people who

are in business with the mates and it's horrendous. And they don't get on and there's a conflict. And

when you talk of the numbers we've got, we're not just talking about all we own a, you know,

this small company, we've got millions of pounds on the on the line in an argument. Anyway, Jim was

very good at letting me lead everything. Any decision I made, he just back it. So it was

brilliant. And he's just I made it back it and he just turned up for work every day. So it was good.

Away from business partners, you clearly were quite social growing up going down BMX. And if

you're part of that kind of thing, we moat across your grass all across the grass. Yeah.

You're clearly going to be a social kid, you're going to be surrounded by people and then people

that you then bring with you throughout your life, some drop off, some new people come on.

If you're taking a whole team to Marbella or Vegas or the rest of it, is it quite difficult

as you to be like, Oh, this family member wants to come, but they're not really working the business.

This friend's like, Yeah, sure, I'll come. Is it really hard being the money man to like stay

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I've each weird because I've one thing I've never done is like network with people. So I have the

people from 10 years ago with the same people now. So I know if they're coming into my life now that

they're probably going to want it's a different agenda. I've been with the same girl since the

start when I had nothing living on that house. And you know, the staff that I bring in here

brought him for a reason. So I treat my family and my friends the same as I treat my staff,

you know, we're all on one level like no one's bothered. We go to the pub, my mate's by pints,

no one. So I never get it. No one, no one ever asked me for, no one asked me for money.

No one asked me to come on all day. My wife, if I'm going all day with the staff, she not

asked to come because she knows that I do it's work. Like I go with my work guys to treat my

work guys. I'm not doing it because taking my wife abroad, I do that whenever. So no, I don't,

I don't get asked and I don't get conflicted. And because my family will know the answer.

Mate, this is my first priority. So my first priority is making sure my guys here, my business is

on the up. So that's, that's what's going to happen. But a lot of those family and people that

you know have ended up working for you. Yeah, that always been like quite something that you'd

think about when making those decisions heavily. Like is this going to be right for our relationship?

I think because generally we're, I don't know what it is. I've got lucky with the people I've

employed. So I'm in business with a lot of my mates and I've, I've, I've, I've hired a lot of

my mates and a few of my family members. So my brother Dan works for me. Tom's been here from

the start. He's one of my best mates. I'm in business with Max and the car dealership. I've

got three other businesses, all randomly mates. I'm lucky that in they let me lead, you know what

I mean? So because we've had an idea together and yeah, fronted 100 200 grand or whatever to get a

start up going. If they've got it, they'll always just say like, Al, what would you, what would

you have done then? And I'll go, well, mate, like just change that on that. And we just don't argue.

I don't argue with people. I don't know. I don't, I just got a personality. I just don't argue with

people. I'm not, I don't know. We just tend to get on well. So I've seen it where they don't get on

mates, family in business. And I know a lot of advice in businesses, never take on your family

or friends. I've found the opposite. I found they're the ones who are going to be there supporting

me, supporting the business, my load times. We've had loads of things go wrong in this business.

Horrendous, you know, sleepless nights. They're the ones who are always there for you.

More than normal stuff. And my normal, my stuff are absolutely fantastic.

Who in the business have you partly employed because they've got the biggest balls to tell you no?

And does anybody ever tell you no? Not sure. No.

Not really. I mean, yeah, no, no, no, but do you know what, mate? It's,

because that sounds like, oh, he just runs a load of minions and it's not that it's because

the conversations I have with the staff and the culture I built is what all on the same level.

So it's never me dictating to them. It's never, it never has been that and it never is. It never

was that and never will be that. I'm never the one dictating. So if I'm holding a meeting,

everyone's got the exact same say anyway. I'm not like sat at the front like, oh, yeah,

listen to me and no one can tell me no. We'll just have conversations about everything.

So everybody's got the same part. So there isn't any no. There's no, there's no

no's to anybody. Do you know what I mean? I obviously interview a lot of people.

And especially people say under 35, 35 or below. Yeah.

They're very quickly in a period of three to five years come into money, some that I haven't

been able to get on the podcast as well. And I've kind of watched their journey and they get what

I call footballer syndrome, which is it's like nothing,

hell, look at this. I'm a twat. Yeah. What stopped you from becoming that?

It's very, I'm very thankful for you to even think that but I'd hope that the people around me would

say the same. I don't, this is what I go back to is I still do the same stuff as I did 10 years

ago. So I like going for a pint on the way home on my own. That's what I like doing. I don't like

being everyone pecking me at or whatever. I don't go on network with high net worth people

because I just think I don't enjoy that chat. I want to know how my may, who's a plasterer,

how his week's been on a Friday night. So we all go out on a Friday night every single week,

the lads to one pub, we do it every single week. I just want to have normal conversations because

how can I think that I'm any better than someone else just because I've got more money? That doesn't

make me a good person. Just got loads of money. It doesn't make me more entitled to anything.

I've just got an ice car sound. You know what I mean? I don't know. I've just never had the mindset

where I think it hopefully has never changed me. I'm more assertive with my decisions. Someone's

taking the piss. I'll tell them now. So I'm very assertive when it comes to business. And if I don't

want to do some of my personal life, I'm quick to say I can't be arsed doing that. They're the only

things that have changed my personality. But other than that, I just think I like doing the same thing.

So although I've got a couple of boats on Windermere, so the boats have got more expensive.

Oh, you exquisite chap. Yeah, exactly. The boats have got more expensive, haven't they? But when

I go there, I go surfing with the lads and we go and have a pizza after. It's the same thing.

You know, I've never tried caviar. I'm not doing all that with the same lads from 10 years ago.

We're going and having a fun day in Windermere, staying over, going, getting pissed. You know,

it's just stayed the same. Well, I think if we're talking about that kind of stuff, we may as well

grab a beer. Yeah. Well, we've quickly grabbed ourselves a beer because I wanted to talk about

that situation when you're in the pub on a Friday night with your mates. Any excuse.

You must get every week and it must get monotonous. I'm betting on the fact that it hasn't stopped.

Come on, Al. Can you just like get us to win one of our competitions? Like, surely you can just get

us our tickets out there, mate? And you must just be like, yeah, I've heard that one before.

That is, yeah, that is a monotonous question. Go on, I'll be all right when I win one of your

houses or I'll be all right when I win that soup. Go on, I've got my eyes on that Audi RA and, yeah,

you get that all the time. Does get a bit boring. If you could ban one of your mates from playing,

who would it be? Well, actually, anyone who's associated with businesses and lads play anyway

and family members. I don't, I don't, it's not my mates, it's more random people. So I would ban

the people that I see all the time saying stuff like that because it gets a little bit annoying.

But my mates, my mates don't really play. But they just don't really play. I think they do. I don't

know why they just don't really play. So you don't have the really that problem? I don't, I have that

problem with random people. So it's not my mates saying let us win one of these because that would

get boring and they know it get boring. But I'll be sat in the pub and a random

will come over and be all right when I win one of your houses, Alex. So that I get it a lot.

What from randomers? What sort of reach does some of the sponsored posts have that you pay for

on Facebook? Well, millions of views, millions and millions of views.

Not daily, but we're doing massive numbers on social media.

What has that done to your life? Surely people are now like and probably as well because it's

short form and it is a business advertising. I know that guy from somewhere. Is that what you

get a lot or are you getting like, oh my God, it's the elite blade like every five seconds?

Yeah, I get I get recognised a lot. My one big thing and it's probably the reason why I drive

van every day is the conception you'll get from me. Like if you just saw the videos,

you probably would think he's a bit of a dick. You probably would like to say that because I'm

the young lad who's made a load of money and he drives around in a Rolls Royce. That would be

your conception, like your perception of me straight away. But that's my one biggest thing.

I don't want people to think that because they don't know me. So I do get it a lot and I do.

I don't sit there sometimes and sometimes if someone's like staring at you or whatever and

I'm no celebrity, don't get me wrong at all and no stretch of the imagination.

But I do worry about what people think about me a bit.

Is your biggest fear you're not being recognised as humble by your family and friends?

Yeah, definitely. Definitely want everyone to think I'm the same guy. If someone said you've

changed, which genuinely anyone who means something to me has never said that. If someone said you've

changed, you turn into an idiot, then I would I would be upset. That would be the one thing that

would upset me because I pride myself on being a nice guy and doing the right by people and not

treating anyone differently. You think that just comes from your upbringing?

I think that comes from upbringing. I also think it comes from the people you surround yourself with.

So I know that people say like networking's brilliant and it can be. Don't get me wrong.

Absolutely. Especially for business and open coming entrepreneurs, speaking to other like-minded

people, but you can speak to the wrong people. There's so many people who are egotistical.

Think people are a piece of shit just because they've got normal jobs. That is just not fair

to have that mindset. So I've always surrounded myself with people that I trust,

small group that I've always grown up with. And that's it. I'm not interested in opening that up

to anyone. As someone that is grown 100 million pound business, how many reels from podcasts do

you see pop up every day? You think that's just such bollocks. I'd explain in the office.

Every day. And I doom scroll as well. So I'm still on for doom scrolling an hour at night.

And there's so many business podcasts where you're just like, mate, that's not real life.

The only one bit of advice I would say is you have to be obsessed with what you're doing.

That's it. You're obsessed with what you're doing. It'll work. But you've got to like it and you've

got to be obsessed with it. And that would be it. That would be my only piece of advice to anybody

trying to start out. If you think you can first five years, never went all day, you know, working

seven days a week, I still work seven days a week now, but yes, I can go on holiday now. I've got

a load of staff that don't happen overnight. That happens after 10 years of graft. And I still

graft every day. You know what I mean? My wedding morning. Yeah, doing my figures six a.m. My wedding

morning before my wedding, I'm doing my figures. All I'm thinking about is work and I've got to get

married in four hours. Genuinely, genuinely, I'm that obsessed on my wedding morning. I was doing it.

We got we had our first order a month ago. Little Molly on the day my mrs is in labor,

I'm checking revenue every half an hour. I swear down, that's how obsessed you've got to be.

Otherwise it won't work. If you think you can put it down on a Friday night, if you think you can be

ungover on a Saturday and not do it, if you can't be asked on a Monday because you've had a rough

night's sleep, you won't make it. Did you always have obsession with something called did a leak

give you the ability to have obsession? Always had always had an obsessive personality, always been

a bit addicted. Again, I've smoked for 18 years, and I don't want to smoke, but I can't give it up.

You know, I've got I've got an obsessive personality. And I've always been obsessed with

whatever's going on in my life at the time. Yeah. What was that when you were like in your teens?

In my teens, it wasn't always about just making money because it's important because it forms

who you are today. And I think it's like when people see people come on podcasts and tell

a little stopgaps. And what I make people do is like, you're in a whirlwind your weeks and your

days never have a chance to think about stuff. Sometimes until you sit in the van, when the

reason I go like, what was the first supercar you bought? How did that make you feel when you sat

in it and you looked at the badge? How did that make you feel? It's because it's not necessarily

something to gloat or like shout about. But what it is, it's like, Christ, do you remember when we

were here? It's a bit of a stopgap. It actually puts a pin on paper of like where you were at

a specific point of your journey. But like so many of those pins and strings come back to moments

that we realize have absolutely no value at the time. But some of the most valuable things in our

story all together, if your friend hadn't given you that five grand and his dad hadn't have said,

yes, we probably wouldn't have been sat here now. Such minute differences can change the outcome of

something so much. So I was thinking of names then I was thinking UK, Carpcom, Seven Days,

there's all these other people. What are your minute differences?

I genuinely think the only difference and none of those guys are doing it wrong, don't get me wrong,

all doing big numbers. Yeah, and probably very similar to us. So whatever they're doing is right

as well. But ours personally here is I will not let the culture of the team go down. So if we've got

one person who's acting up, we'll call it straight out. Also, my other thing is I'm, I show up every

single day for them. So I know that my team are dedicated to the brand as much as I am.

And because I'm here, like if I was off in LA, and I bought a mansion in LA and I didn't work and

I was just giving them a load of shit on WhatsApp, I just wouldn't, I don't think that would work. And

a lot of the other brands do do that. The CEOs will just go, you know, they'll make a couple of

million quid and they'll just go, right, that's me now, you know, I'm happy. But I think the,

I think the difference is we, I always strive for moving forward, always strive for success.

We've doubled this year, we're doubling for the last two years, year on year. And I just think

me being here and showing up for the guys as much as I do, like I'm taking my tea tomorrow night.

Like do I have to take my team out for tea and have conversations that I could just add up work and

you know, or my ego should be bigger because I'm rich? No, that doesn't matter. It makes no sense to

me. So I think the difference is, is I'm happy being here, I might be getting stuck in, I'll wash

the car. Mate, if I need a car for content, I will go and wash the car, not texting the baller,

like, mate, get back here and clean that car. I'll just do it because he'll be busy doing

something else. So you'll see me cleaning the car. When you've pioneered something, and you're

very passionate, it was the first sentence you said about pioneered the ecom side of online

competition business. And I agree with that. So when you've got people snapping at your heels

and other people growing big companies, surely they're going to piss you off at some point.

Which one, or if you can't name the names, but fucking go on, which one's annoyed you the most?

Which one's challenged you the most? What's been your realm of dread to Barcelona?

Honestly, I swear down here, and I might be like a soft businessman, I don't dislike any of them,

I promise. That's the genuine thing. I couldn't say it because I'd just be lying. I like him,

whatever one does. The only thing that would piss me off if it's someone's not doing it right.

So like if you, you know, we should all be abiding by this VCLC now, which is voluntary

code of conduct. If you're taking money off people using credit cards on instant win competitions,

you shouldn't be doing that. You know, you should have spend gaps, spend limits now for

your customers. You should have self exclusion. You should have dedicated customer service teams.

If you haven't got that, you're too small and you shouldn't be in the industry because you're

giving us all a bad name. That gives me, that will annoy me. The big companies we've got to our size

and running about saying to us, no, I've got no issue with it. I've got a funny one and I'm sure

if he watches this, he'll agree. We had in our early days, probably two years in,

I'll add called Robbie, won a motorbike off us and he then started his raffle company with that

motorbike and that's Revcomps. So Robbie and, I don't know his dad's name, Pete, I think,

and they started Revcomps with a bike. They won offers at the start, but fair play. I mean,

he's done really well and I like the guy and we speak and, you know, there's other people and

there's other people who've won here and use that as the first prize. I was like, well, I can do what

they're doing now. Mate, don't bother. It would be hard work. I wouldn't sell up again now.

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So you're saying with Hilton Honors, I can use points for a free night stay anywhere?

Anywhere. What about fancy places like the Canopy in Paris?

Yeah, Hilton Honors, baby, or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad in Tulum.

Hilton Honors, baby. What about the five star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives?

Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties?

When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime, it matters where you stay. Hilton for

this day. A lot of people, maybe they're a little bit more know about creators and people that own

cars and this business and that business like me as a podcaster. Yeah, would have seen a couple

of people sell up their competition businesses of recent. One of them has done very well and

was recently driving around in a Veyron and seems to be loving life. I know the guy.

I don't know whether he'd like to be mentioned or not, but he's done extremely well. Congrats to him.

Is that thought crossed your mind? I've been approached multiple times to sell elite and I

think at the end of the day, it's such a funny industry right now because we've now gone from

bedroom traders. As I started five years ago, even we're still a bedroom trader.

It was small, we're in a little farm building. Two, these businesses turning over 100 million

pound, the industry up to 2000000000 pound turnover. So it's under our accounts have now hit

audit threshold. So there'll be a handful of us that now have to get audited accounts. So last

year we had audit threshold, which is 25 mil turnover over 5 million net assets. And there's

another one, it's like 50 plus employees, but you've got a bit two out of three. We hit it last year.

So now we have to get our accounts audited, which means our accounts are public on company's house

every year. So you hit a certain level and everything goes public on company's house.

Now, what that's done is that's created a lot of interest from billionaires and billion pound

companies in the gambling industry, in the lottery industry. So yes, a few of these founders are now

selling up because what you've got to realize is the founders of competition companies generally

are just like me. They're just normal lads, love cars, give that a go. A few of the early guys,

you know, it's common knowledge DCG have sold RevComp's, it came out a couple of weeks ago,

I think they're going through an acquisition, click competitions sold,

COTB sold a few years ago, you know, there's... So for the team up there, are you selling?

No. Why do you want so sure? Not for sale. I just think we can, I can push it further. And I enjoy

it too much. Have you ever had just five seconds of looking at an offer or looking at a potential

offer and just that thought going, oh, you bastard. No, think about it every week. And I'm in it,

I'm going to be very, very honest with you here. I'm in a, I'm in a weird position now,

where I'm seeing the founders who are similar age to me and they made a lot of money selling

their companies and they're selling them to these massive, massive industry leaders in whatever

industry they're from. And they're getting a lot of money, right? And moving to Dubai and they did

not, they don't need to pay tax because they're now residents of Dubai or they stay in, they've

still got a lot of money. And it's weird because I keep speaking to my parents about it and I keep

trying to kind of get a bit of advice. I'm like, do I one sell for a really good amount of money now?

And you know, we would, I would get a lot of money. I only come to 100%. So I bought my two partners out

in the past. Or do I stay and I try and compete with the guys who are buying the companies,

right? So I've got billion pound companies here, buying a couple of the others. Yeah,

so that's it. So you've got, I don't know, whatever, like the holding company owns two

graph on companies doing 50 million quid each. They're now, and they've got backing of multi

million pounds to spend on marketing and to spend on building the team and they're going to double

the teams overnight. Is that going to make us feel small in the industry? Which we don't currently,

but you know, these guys are massive. So then I go, do I cash out now and take a shitload of money

that I've never even imagined having in my life and I don't need it. It's too much that I even need.

But what does that look like for me? Would it be bored? Yes. But I feel like I've given up

literally my baby. Yes. So that's enough for me not to do it. So and then what do I have to do?

I've got to do even better than we're doing now. And I'm not just talking about elite. I'm actually

flicking around in my head thinking, maybe I go and buy a couple of smaller companies.

You know what I mean? And then I start trying to acquire in the industry so we can make it like a

holding company and a leech of one of them. What a lot of obviously business owners do on a wider

spectrum is go if they're if their company say what where I grew up in a paving slab business,

you start thinking, can we sell porcelain in Germany? Can we sell paving slabs and set up

another LTD in America? Come set up in Australia. Now we've mentioned so many different types of

paperwork and audits and businessy things during this podcast. How difficult would it be to replicate

a company like this in one of those other great big territories?

In a different industry or elite competitions? America, not legal. Elite competitions? Germany,

not legal anywhere. Elite competitions? Australia? No, I think Australia have got a way around it

with you. You buy something and you get entered into it. But it's not it's the this regulation is

unique to the UK. Have you ever thought it could be changed and you could be fucking read? I've

no the regulation not too worried about to be fair. Obviously, it's on everyone's radar and

everyone's been talking about regulation since we started. However, the VCOC is coming last year.

Great, because that's Department of Culture and Science Media have

come together with us, the bigger guys in the industry created what we should be doing for

good practice. Now that's going if we take this seriously and we market the fact that we should

be doing these things that this voluntary code of conduct says, take that seriously and you don't

need to be regulated because you're self regulating. So I think the regulation scrutiny is not a

worry of mine. Used to be not so much anymore. I think we will self regulate the really big

companies will always do the right thing because they're so big. I think the smaller guys unfortunately

will will fizzle out. Do you know what the success rate is of a competition business? It's got to be

low. It's got to be low just because of the how less than one percent is it? What if you started

one up? Yeah, so one only one in 100 carry on going after a couple of years. Yeah, I can imagine.

I don't think I'd start up again now. I do something else. But you do do other things as well

because this isn't the only business necessarily around this. I don't know if they're all merged

into one, but a lot of the problems that you have, I guess, are people. I bet you really want them to

take the prizes, the GT3, the event or the like, take it, enjoy it. Yeah. But how many of them do?

So we've got so I've got five businesses that I run. So Elite comps obviously is the biggest

and then I've got a building company that builds new houses. So we've got a lead development group

of building houses. I've got another building company that renovates property, Balmont Estate Group,

and then I've got a hospitality company, Bowlenbeck. It's a place in round here that we

use to go and drink on a Friday night. So that's why I've got that. That is very

fanatical. It's amazing. I love it. And then the fifth one is a Maneva group, which is a car dealership.

And basically that will help. I've run it with my mate. Well, actually he runs it, but we own it

together. And that will obviously help source some prizes for here. But to keep it very clean from

Elite competitions, if you win that Temeraeo tomorrow, the car is yours. That's it. Like,

for Elite competitions, you're you are the owner of that car. Okay, that's it. Done. Straight after

the draw, whether you take the cash alternative or not. What Maneva Group does is then purchase that

car off you for the cash alternative. So you then sell that car to Maneva Group 50. No, not 5050.

60% of the time people take the prizes, 40% cash alternative. Really? I actually thought it would

be six. I thought it'd be the exact opposite way round. No, I might even be more. It might be 65.

Take them. A lot of people take the prizes. Have you had people that have

said they're taking the cash alternatives and turn up and go for the prize instead?

No, but we do get a lot of mind changes overnight and a bit all over the place. And obviously our

most recent winner, a guy called David, he won a £1.8 million house last Friday. And so I was

like, it was £1.8 million house or £1.25 million cash. And you automatically think,

oh, 100% is going to take the cash like £1.2 million in your bank on the same day, like

literally a one-wire transfer. I've got high limit on the thing. Money's there, have it.

And he took the house. So I'm like, buddy, oh, like it's proper. So then we transfer the title

deeds and that's it. Why is there a difference? Why is there £1.2 million cash to take and

£1.8 million in the house? Because the problem is if you set the cash alternative to the same

value as the house or the cars, people would never take the items. Why don't the gambling rules

bring them up to the same? Well, I mean, because the value is still there. So if you GT3RS is

£260 grand, say, and the cash alternatives is £200. So no one's ruling that you're only offering

£200 grand for £260 because just take the car and it's worth £260. So your value's still there.

But if I set that £260 grand cash alternative, £260 grand car, you would never take the car

because you go, well, I'll just take the cash, I'll just buy one near me or buy one in a different

colour or you would never take it, would you? And then we've got no winner videos. We've got

nothing. You know, everyone just take cash alternative. It's lower for that reason, really.

That's it. There's nothing to do with us trying to make profit on them again or anything like that.

It's just we want people to take the prizes on purpose. Have you got a winner in your mind of

a competition that stands out to you that's like, shit? We've got a really good, we've got a really

funny one a few months ago. Can't remember his name, but that's irrelevant. I actually can't remember

his name. But this guy come down right. So he won this competition, a million pound cash. So he won

a million pound cash on Friday night. Anyway, I didn't really know anything about it. I don't

do the live draws, Luke does most of the live draws. So I said, right, get him down, you know,

we'll say, get him down, but try and get him down, especially when it's like this. Now,

why are the money there? And then, so literally, boom, it'll just pop in your bank a million

quid. Got him in. Next thing, open the shutter and everyone's ready with like a confetti cabin.

And I didn't really realise because nobody's told me this guy walks in 79 years old.

So I had on this guy was 79 years old and he just won a million quid spent at center.

I was like, that's class. So this guy was 79 years old. I sat him down over there. He was like,

why do you think he wasn't? He was in electric wheelchair. Like, you know, we had him sat down

over there and I got my laptop out and I wide a million quid. I went, if you're on my bank,

you know, yeah, check it. He went, bloody hell, seven figures in there now. He was good. And then

we had another one, which again was a million pound cash. And the lad was 19. Can't remember his name

from Scotland. He came down, did the same. We sat him down in the corner, 19 years old,

one a million pound dropping in your account. Right, guys, if you like in this video, make

sure you hit the subscribe button. We've been waffling on a little bit, but hopefully enjoy

the rest. I know, I don't want to sound too wishy-washy here because I don't necessarily

believe in this, but I know like if you win the lottery, and people may have heard this, like

they've got like a lottery support group. It's just like, don't do this, do this, you can do this,

do this. As far as you're concerned, if he just wants to go below it in the pub that night,

is he allowed to? Yeah, at the end of the day, I mean, people, we haven't got the infrastructure

where we can, I mean, I've got a financial advisor that I say, do you want me to put into,

you're in touch with a financial advisor? And then I will do, but if they don't want it, they don't

want it. 19 year old, a million quid, I was worried, I want me, do not go and spend all that in one

day. That's what you're going to do. He went, I'm going to buy an RS6 and a half. So I'm right,

that's good. Go and do that. Do not let all your mates talk you into a private jet to Ibiza.

You know, like, you know, so I just have a joke with him and try and, you know, just, I'm not

wanting my buys, but I do say we've got financial advisor if you want, they just say no, nah, mate,

I'm all right, fair enough. I'd say the same. But yeah, it is scary though.

19 years old, a million quid. At 19 years old, if you put a million quid in my bank,

I don't know, I just lost my mind. I guess people probably also sat there thinking,

but like, I know this is different to what most people will be able to relate, but did

one sell what was my dad's company? I grew up in it since I was 12 years old and I did one,

they sell that after he died and passed away. And the money hitting my account was actually a really

poignant moment because it hit the account, what I sold it for one of the right now I can go on my

journey and do what I want to do. Yep. With my businesses. But like, I felt like I'd literally

given away everything. Everybody I knew growing up, people that felt like family at work. Did you

actually feel like that? Genuinely? It was the worst feeling the one I had. Because that would be

what I was saying. I did it really poignantly. I sat in my dad's office chair when I had the

transfer and it just hit the account, I just broke down in tears. I was like, I just don't want it.

And I immediately felt like where I was and sat wasn't like ours or mine anymore. It

felt distant like it all just went cold. Were you in the office that you just sold or were you in

the office that you're at the house? No, I was at the office that we just sold. I was at the office

we just sold. And it felt super weird. Yeah. And the really difficult thing is when you sell a business

and you get into those negotiations and maybe if you've got leverage to do it, it'll be different

for you. Yeah. But yeah, I was in a situation where I could not tell anybody or like millions of pounds

was at risk. Yeah. If I'd open my mouth, that was 21. Yeah. And so you're going in every day but

people get suspicious. You see stuff going on, you're here, you're very visible, you're running

around. People get suspicious, you know, what's he doing? Why does he look like that? Why does he

look stressed? Why does he look sad? Why does he look this? And then especially if you're like family

to people, people think, you know, you're not selling all of your own. You're not selling all of your

massive impact on your life. And I had to look at these people and say I wasn't for a year. Yeah.

And I was lying to every single one of them. That's really tough.

What did you feel like after? Horrendous for four months. Yeah. Yeah. Horrendous for four months.

It took four months. Did it go after that? It went when I got my first idea that sparked my

brain again. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Which, frankly, enough was this. Yeah. Yeah. As soon as I got like

an idea that I was like, oh, hang on a minute. This looks interesting. Then it was gone. It was fine.

But like even now, I still go into that office and say, do you keep into it?

I was going to drive down the A40 at Berford. Yeah. I will drop into it. What was it? What was

the what was industry? Was it a paving slabs building? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So paving slabs

building products. And if I was part of that, I grew an online store with a team of its own.

Yeah. Off the side of it. But I still pop in there and see a lot of those. What did you

what about the money and the money hit? Horrendous. How did it? How did it not change you into an

arsehole? Or maybe you are an arsehole? Do you know what I mean? You asked me though,

like when when when I got the one year when you start, man was a lot more gradual than that as well.

It's weird, isn't it? You just don't change. I just didn't. The only answer I can say,

no, I believe this. I didn't. I didn't want it. Yeah. I didn't want it. I wanted the business.

But I actually started thinking how I could use that money as a deposit to put down and fund

buying the other shareholders out. Right. So it was like it was just a constant,

like how do I get rid of this? Yeah. Yeah. So it wasn't it wasn't that way. Yeah. You never thought

of it that way. Like I'm now really wealthy. Yeah. It's quite interesting to look at you during

hearing that because it's not about me. It's about you. Yeah. But to see how you can react.

Because it does make you think like I think people sat at home and they'll see you dancing on screen

with a lot of prizes in the background. Yeah. I think, oh, it's all right for him.

But there are some decisions which is simply life altering. Like anybody else can have a

life altering decision, you know, anything that makes a huge impact on their life.

But like it really is truly life altering when you give away your business. It's like giving away

a pet or a literally a family member. It is. It is. And I can see with you that matters more

than say other people that I'd have sat in the van because you are one of the most obsessed

individuals I've ever looked into the eyes of. Yeah. And it's really funny. It's really hard to

unpick that obsession. I've never come across someone that's really that hard to unpick maybe

the roots of that. Yeah. What do you think your mum and dad would say different to how you dance?

And what if I asked your mum and dad, why is he that obsessive? What do you think they would say?

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They must just say he's got OCD and he's just, I don't know because they know that the thing is,

even my mrs and my mum and dad know that this just comes first. Not first as in obviously if one

of them is ill or something, I'm going to go and see him or whatever. But they know if I'm here,

they don't ring me. Or nothing, like you just eat, they'll just be like, I don't know,

he's just completely obsessed with his business. I don't know if there's anything else to say,

I just completely am. And I've been in two failed sales situations. I've already been through it

twice due diligence everything. I blew 300 grand on the last deal in Louisville and it didn't go

through 300 grand in six months of my life. Yeah, there's been loads of stuff. And then I had a

web developer take me for half a million quid. I bought shares for a few million off my things.

There's thousands of people there. And in their cars right now and in the gym and they'll be smiling

if I've just nailed where they are. You've got to now tell them that story. We've got a couple

do the deals first. First one with this must this was back when James was still a director.

So we're back in 20, five years ago, 20, when did was last World Cup four years

ago was four years ago? Because I remember we missed the World Cup game because we had a meeting

with these guys. Anyway, going contact from guys, couple of guys from Germany said, I give you 10

million for your business said, yeah, absolutely. You know, this is for four years ago. Anyway,

went through due diligence. And I was going through a firm to like an M&A M&A firm at the time to

help with the deal. Went through due due diligence, everything's fine. Bob or we're going to fly over

for a final meeting with you before we close it all off. No problem. World Cup game night, me and Tom

sorry, I just bought Jimmy out because he wasn't there. Me and Tom sat there. Tom doesn't own any

shares, but he's brilliant. Like literally right on my. So we sat there, missed the World Cup game

because this meeting's happening. It was like seven or eight PM, nine PM at night, they were just

getting in from the flight came to our old office, which is round the corner much smaller, but they're

dead nice. Like I like having a nice place to work. Sat down, started going through it. I'm dead

like new to this. I'm like, I don't know what's going on. Like, I'll if they want me to hang me

I'm well happy and that's it. You know, but I'm like, I've got no advice. No one's done this before.

Start talking and he's talking about company buyback of shares and he's talking about this

earn out stuff. And I'm like, I remember just saying that I have to about three hours.

I was like, mate, have you got 10 million pound at you know, why me for this company?

And I went, well, I'll, I'll, I'll, I went, mate, you ruined three months of our life thinking about

this and spend off spending the money and all that. And it turned out they were just

honestly, and we were close to signing, chancing, giving away the company for nothing, where I would

only get paid on the earn out of the profits. It was meant to essentially they would buy your

business and use the business to buy you out. Yeah, it was mental after I processed it. Second time was

only a year and a half ago, 18 months from now, right? No, two years, two, say two years ago, two

years, bit of a stagnation period for elite. Yeah, three years of similar turnover up a little bit

that year doing all right. Okay, whatever it's two years ago from now, got approached by a very

wealthy guy through an investment company and stuff like that. Once again, to the competition

industry, go through a load of chats, getting back down to London, schmoozed and all that.

And that figure then was a couple of tens of million. It was a big figure, you know, and I'm

like, whoa, I don't think I can say no, you know, it's not like 100, but it was a big figure.

And I was like, I can't say no. Anyway, I said, yeah, yeah, all right, let's do it.

Due diligence, three months, upload all this to the frigging, what they call data,

what they call the data safe things that are online. I can't remember what it's

anyway, upload sign or something. Yeah, it's like a vault online, you upload all your stuff,

custom, you know, all your customer numbers, all your figures, everything, all the head accounts.

Oh, interest grow. Yeah, yeah, it's just like, bones, go and have a look or all that.

Did all due diligence, yep, dead happy with everything, you know, there's nothing, nothing in

there. So I get a call on literary on deal completion date. And I'm like trying to keep

this secret from my staff. I'm like, I'm not, they didn't know what's going on. But I'm like,

listen guys, it won't change. May you change? Yeah, no, all may 100%. But I'm like, I'm telling you

now, I think I had a meeting actually, and I went, I'm going to tell you, but I'm telling you

nothing will change because I promise I'll stay for two years and make sure everything's fine on

a handover for two years. Anyway, gets to deal day, and I get a phone call, needs to come down to

London and have a quick meeting with us. Oh, okay, that's weird. It's like deal day tomorrow. And this

was today, what the hell, five hours from London, I don't like London is too busy. I don't have

from up north in the countryside pretty much. I don't like it went down there, went into this

meeting and the buyer tried to not five mil off on deal day, 5000000 quid just went,

no reason, no real reason. That's just what they do. So and then I went, no, didn't like the no

bit of arguing. I don't want some we got our top time again, or we're leaving, walked out and that

was it. I spent 300 grand on my lawyer because I didn't use an M&A firm for this. So I've spent

300 grand with my law firm for the due diligence and all the advice and it just went over that.

But they're like, they're like six months periods where you've got to run the business and all your

other businesses and go through all due diligence and have these meetings with billionaires and you're

like, the fucking hell's going on? You know what I mean? So yeah, that was the, that was, that was

and it's so I have been at the point where I've been like, yeah, will so.

When are you happiest?

Happiest. When do you feel the most fulfilled in a week?

When we've had a good week and I can celebrate with the team, honestly.

So why would you sell and take that away?

Exactly. That's it. I think my parents would tell you the same regardless of the number.

It would be, and do you know what? The mad thing is, after that particular one,

for X amount of whatever it was, we doubled and then we doubled again.

Like we were literally quadrupled since those meetings in two years.

I went and interviewed a chap the other day, he wouldn't take much figure and he's got a

competition company, fantastic flamboyant character. They're absolutely nuts and they

do everything so well from their site at home, bonkers, cops, Nigel and great chap.

But he, he said, and Harry said, and they're on their journey and they're doing well and

they're making good money. But they're like, well, I feel like we're at this point where it's like,

how do we get that next bang, that next surge? I said, well, I'm talking to a man that's done that

in a couple of weeks time. How'd you get that next surge? What's the golden nugget?

I just took as many risks as possible. I think the big one, December 20, we didn't know,

December 24, and we decided to do our first house, million pound, took a risk, lost money.

Did it again though, made money, did well, a couple of hundred, I think not long.

So it happened.

Yeah.

So you got a million pound hours, you said like, under a grand's ticket?

Yeah. Yeah. 100,000 about is our biggest ever, one to 150 maybe.

And then we dropped the prices and we went on an acquisition mission. So we literally just like

three comps, trying to pile loads and loads of customers in, cheap comps, work on retention,

hire very, very, now I've started hiring very good, paid marketing, performance. I've got a CMO.

I've never don't even know what C-suite members of staff are and now I've got a CMO and

you know, so I've started now to hire and then that's when we started doing really, really well.

Is that because to you as the humble kid that doesn't want to be viewed as this or that,

you're a bit worried about hiring CEOs and CFOs and this because it just sounds a little bit

London?

It's, yeah, I think it's, yeah, you're like, well, I don't need that for our little business.

No.

And then once going, what are you on about?

His name is Roger.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, well, he doesn't really suit though, does he?

Because my mate can do it down the road and it's like, no, you mate can't do this because

he's not done it. He's not scaled a business from X to X.

So I think hiring the right people and having the bollocks to do it as well, just,

we doubled our staff last year, literally double and the year before. So we've got 44 now,

which will be the biggest in the competition industry I would have thought.

How important is it to fire the right staff?

Only had to fire two people.

So that's it.

Ever.

How mad is that?

We've got people who are here five years started when they were 19 years old now 24.

Jess, this is Jess here, dead girl girl.

She's come in straight from uni and just kind of taught everything she knows,

but then she's picked it all up really well.

She's dead commercial.

She runs our subscription now.

She's our subscription manager, built it to 1.2 million turn over a month,

just subscription, recurring revenue.

You know, and fantastic.

And I've had a look.

I'm lucky with my hires that we've never had to do it.

I had to go with Rida one because he was working for competitors in his week.

Everyone was so fuming about it because it feels like a family.

So when someone's doing you wrong like that, it's horrendous.

It's like infiltration.

Yeah.

And it's obviously against your contracts and everything like that.

So that was just on the, and it's a shame because nice guy did great work for us,

was with us for a good few years, pulled him into ballroom and what he'd been doing, mate.

And he was like, yeah, sorry.

I was like, why?

And then other than that, we've only ever really had to get one other.

So we don't, I don't do firing, but there is no firing.

Does your, do you change a little bit as a character when you go through even one or

two of those things?

Like you lose a little bit of trust in every 45.

Is it hard not to?

No, I honestly feel that close, my team.

I'd know it as well.

Like we, we had an inkling straight away on this guy.

When he started doing it, cause he wasn't doing it for long, you know, we knew straight away.

I'm that close to him.

It's like imagine working with, you've literally working with your family.

I like all of them, I feel exactly the same about.

I worry about when he gets too big, 100 staff, 150 that I'll lose a lot of that.

But no, I've had nothing's, do you know what?

I've got one thing that I always say I go off and it's whatever, literally whatever happened

yesterday. I don't give a shit about, I'll just carry on.

I've got a good story about that one as well.

So we, so I had a web developer.

He was doing or everything new full tech and it was outsourced out to India.

Yeah.

So I had this guy in India and he had about five guys work for him out in India.

Minor alarm bells ringing already.

And I'm going, whatever mate, I saw him paying them like 15 grand a month probably,

you know, between them, there's like six of them or something like that.

So good wages, you know, for out there is what it's like, all minimum wage here,

amazing out there. It's times five, I think your wealth.

So fine. It was all right for 223 years, literally 23 years.

This guy's running the platform. Beautiful.

Brilliant. Anyway, I had a chat with the lads here and I went,

if we need to get a little bit more of a professional

in a outfit to run our tech stack, because now we've got, I'll go on to that.

You know, so reached out to a few firms and we found a firm who are massive,

3,000 employees worldwide, huge international firm can put the right guys onto it,

can run it remote, fully integrate into your business and you'll have these.

We've currently got 12 of them full time.

So we have 12 employees through this other company.

So I said to the guy in India, I said, right, I'm moving it out mate.

I'm, you know, I'm taking it off you.

You will lose your jobs because I'm moving it to a different

a different company to run.

And I said, I'll pay you for three months.

So all of your staff three months and you just helped me do the handover of everything.

And he went, he went, no, I won't, what do you mean? No.

And he went, I'll turn your website off.

I went, you can't do that mate.

And he went, I can.

And he said, I own your source code, which basically your source code is your whole website.

Like this, the main code that runs everything.

So you can rebuild source code because we own the domain,

but it takes six months or revenue loss in six months is at that time, 15 million quid.

So he said, no, I'm still trying to run the comps and not tell anyone in the business.

And I've got this guy going, I'm going to turn your website off.

And I'm like, I'm going to second, I've got competitions.

And this is when it's scary because I've got no money right at the time.

You know, we kind of like, yeah, there's a million quid, but it's out.

And then back in and out.

And I've got a house half sold on a competition.

And this guy's going, I'll turn your website off.

I'm like, what happens to everyone with house tickets?

And how do I even see their orders to refit?

You know, you're like, shit, like this is massive problem.

So anyway, these, I said, mate, what you're on about, don't do that.

Went through lawyers, tried to, tried to, you know, he's just arguing and saying,

I'm, no, you can't do it.

I want a percentage of the business or I want paying out to get your source code back, blah, blah.

Anyway, probably two months of this horrendous, because I'm like,

he's going to turn the website off.

So I'm waking up in the middle of the night just checking everything's all right.

It was pretty horrendous for a good month or two.

I ended up paying him half a million quid, pound GBP.

He knew what he was doing.

I paid him half a million quid.

And this isn't when we're doing figures like this is not what you see now.

This is when half a million quid was like six months profit or a year's profit.

You know, like this was like everything was in the bank account.

And I had to wire him off a half a million pound and get source code back.

That was, that was a grim one.

That abort, do you know what?

And I swear down, I say the same thing about everything.

The day I paid the half a million pound, we got our source code back.

The day after I went, I don't give a shit.

We're back, we just go again.

I'm not, I don't even think about it after it.

I genuinely just go, whatever, mate.

So don't feel wrong.

You're just cracking on.

I'm not bothered about going to try and find him in India.

And I'm not, I'm not just not my, whatever mate, he's done his thing.

That's it. I'm straight back onto it.

Is that because if you were him, would you have done the same thing?

No, I'm too nice.

I couldn't, I couldn't have done it.

And I said, I might have said, I've worked for you for three years.

You're in indecent money.

Sort us out.

But I wonder on the way he was.

No way.

That was just pure.

It was pure crook.

Like he stole, he blackmailed.

I got all the, from the lawyers, the guys, they go, and he's just blackmailing you,

but you can't do anything because he's in India.

So he's not even in the UK law.

If it was in the UK, you'd take him to court.

And so you can't just blackmail me for my own website.

We own it all.

No, definitely to, no, you would, nobody would.

No, well, hopefully no one I'd know would do the same.

It was horrendous.

It's the things that you just don't, you can't think of when you're starting.

You think you're safe just with your website.

It's all those minor little things that end up being such a big thing.

We've, we've, we honestly, we've, yeah, we, and we're trying to crack down on it now

because as we're into the multimillion customers, you know, the multimillions of customers,

you've got it.

Everyone's data's got to be so secure.

You've got it.

We've got cyber security insurance now.

That's like two grand a month just for cyber security insurance.

And you're like, what's, you know, what are you, what are these policies?

And, and yeah, we've got a full-time compliance guy, full-time compliance.

I'm like, I'm just selling tickets five years ago on my own.

And the, the, yeah, the little things can really trick you up, especially that.

And obviously when I gave away my business at the start, so I had 22 directors

and I gave away a lot of the business and I've had to pay for it.

Multi-millions of pounds.

James, fine.

And then the web developer, the other, another web developer assigned over 7% and I paid him

a couple of million bound a couple of weeks ago.

Where is the rest of his shares?

Why was it so important to get a hundred percent control back?

Do you just feel like you're in your own house?

Yeah.

So no matter what it cost, no, not, not no matter what it cost me because I was at the point.

So I bought James out about, I think it was 22.

So maybe I bought James out for maybe four years ago, 33% off the table.

So that was good for me.

Good for him though, as well.

He didn't like it.

He was stressing him out and I was his best man at his wedding that year.

We didn't fall out with brilliant and he's wealthy.

So great.

And then after that, I had this guy called Ben who at the start, although James gave me

five grand for the website, I needed a 25 grand website building.

Right.

This is the real thing.

So we have James's five grand and he had 33% I had the rest and we, this website was 25 grand

and I found this guy called Ben Manchester, French guy who builds websites.

And I said, I ain't got any money, mate.

Well, I can give you five grand, but I haven't got the 25 grand.

I said, you can have 7% of the business.

And he went, yeah, all right.

I was like fair play.

He's took a risk.

Like it's nothing at this time, but I'm a good salesman.

So I'm like, look, this is my chart and it goes like this and there's the moon.

You know, like I was like, it could do this.

So anyway, he built the first website, 7% was his and that was that he probably worked

for Elite for maybe a year before we went to the guy in India.

And then has not done anything for the last eight years, but he's held shares.

When James sold his shares, Ben's then went up to 10% because it was company buyback.

So you just look, you basically just buy them out and you lose it.

So then Ben's had 10% for, you know, X amount of time.

And then obviously I've been saying to him, and we're quite friendly with each other.

Don't get me wrong.

And I just said, you know, mate, what do you want to sell?

Here's a figure.

No, I'm all right.

I'll keep to it.

You want to sell last year?

We're in negotiations last January.

And he said, no.

I know he said, yeah.

And then he moved to Dubai, realized he couldn't, I don't know,

like lend loads of money against his money and buy villas or something.

And then said, no, on the day we were meant to complete.

I was like, that's fine, mate.

Like, what, you know, just keep it as long as you want.

I'm not a pushy guy.

So I'm just like, here's an offer, whatever.

You know, for me, I'm not really losing or gaining anything.

Whereas in my head, I am obviously like I want, I want full control.

And then literally a couple of weeks ago, I kind of messaged him and said,

mate, you just tell me your number, whatever, you just tell me your number if you want,

because he's getting nothing out of it.

I said, we've been here for 10 years, you're not getting anything out of it.

You're not taking dividends.

You don't get any profit share.

So you just, you know, if you want to de-risk yourself now,

just let me know what your figure is.

Told me a figure, did a bit of bartering, bar, bar, and then I paid him

last Friday or two Fridays ago.

And then that was it, done.

I was like, bloody hell.

It was a lot of money.

I was like, shit, that was a lot of money actually.

He's like, rinsed the bank.

I was like, oh my God, but he's dead happy.

Really, you know, fair play to him as well.

He took a pun at the start.

He's held for nine years and now he's done really well and I'm like fair play.

And that's another thing.

I'm not bitter that I sent him,

you know, X, whatever it is, is a lot.

You know, I'm not bitter about that.

I'm more like, yeah, we'll go again.

It's a bit like the Gymshark story.

Lewis Morgan and Ben, one of them going off and it's kind of similar to that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's amazing how a business partner can be fundamental in your story,

but also so irritating sometimes.

I was going to say it's right.

Yeah, because I don't think I could have done it without maybe both of them, you know.

But if you think of the history of elite, everyone would say,

and even them two would say, oh, it's all wow.

But I'm like, yeah, but mate, you were there when I initially asked for that money

and you were there grafting every day.

Ben, you were there when I needed a website.

So, you know, I'm only paying market value for what you deserve from that day.

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What is the one prize or thing?

And I know every time you will bloody pop up on my phone,

it's bigger and better and stupider.

And you think, how can you even get more shit in the frame?

But is there like a prize in your head that you want to do or tick off or give away?

Does that become like a bit of a goal?

Just imagine if we could do one of these.

Yeah.

And where is that fantasy currently?

Well, we've scaled our houses up from a million, literally a million,

like six months ago, and we're now at two.

So we're now doing, we're already at one to 2000000

so we're at 2000000 pound houses.

So next, so this month is a 1.4.

Next month to 1.85.

Month after is a very cool one, but I can't give it away

because the competitors all just start stealing the ideas.

So I'm like, in a couple of months, we've got a brilliant one, really cool idea.

And then after that, it's 2000000 pounds.

So we've secured a 2000000 pound house in three months.

Man, one of the dreams for me would be a waterfront mansion on Lake Windermere.

I think that would be a really cool prize with a couple of weight boats.

It is so, I mean, there's one sale and it's 8.5 million pound.

So it's a big house, a couple of boat garages,

a couple of wakesurf boats in there, comes with like 100 grand.

Oh, I'm like, that would be a cool prize.

But I mean, it's a bit stupid at the minute.

I love there's no point.

What do you think is the biggest prize that could ever be given away

with the size of the market in the UK in five years?

Is it ever possible to do like a 100 million pound prize?

Would you ever get your money back?

I suppose the lottery does.

Yeah, lottery is similar because they have to sell tickets, I suppose.

Yes, it would cost you a lot in advertising.

I don't know.

It might just keep scaling to that.

But I mean, I think we're the biggest.

Apart from obviously Omaze, which is a house subscription,

so it's completely different.

Why is it different?

Omaze sell their subscription model more.

So we have got a subscription model.

But when you were talking about the house in late Windermere,

I couldn't help but think.

Amazing.

Yeah, definitely.

So they've got a subscription model and they have uncapped entries.

So it's different because we've got say 10 million entries for the Temer area at like 5p.

Yeah, they, they've just uncapped.

So as many people have signed up is just how many tickets you get.

So it's an infinity amount depending on how good they are at selling tickets.

Also, they based their model around charity.

So there's a lot of charity based on that and it's subscription and it's one house a month.

So it's a completely different model to our competition.

It's a different industry, I feel like.

So they're already doing that.

But we give away about, so say our turnover is 100 million a year,

we give away all of that probably about 50 in prizes,

which is a massive amount compared to, because then I've got costs,

a shitload of costs, right?

It's come off that all the marketing,

whereas they're only giving away, they're giving away about the same in value,

but turning over 300 or whatever they turn over.

You know, so I think value wise, this kind of way of playing competitions is more user valuable.

You've done a TV.

Sick houses, they've done sick houses.

Have you done a TV ad yet?

Yeah, yeah, we've done two TV ads.

One, very professional, no personality, didn't do very well.

Two, it was just me running around the house, and I thought it would did a lot better.

And it was Phil Miles.

From a man that's actually paid for one,

what does a TV advert cost to put on the telly?

To buy the ad slots or make the...

Both.

Okay, so we, on our first one, which was shot in one day,

staged at someone's house, and it was about someone winning a watch instantly,

cost us about 100 grand to produce the ad.

Whoa!

Yeah, yeah.

I'm not in the prop, it used my Ferrari.

So it wasn't even like we had the proper car.

Oh, yeah, bastard!

I was like, oh, I'm funny, oh.

So you used all props and everything.

So about 100 grand in production costs, because you've got actors, you've got to pay them royalties.

You've got to pay the actors royalties.

This is true what they say.

I had a figure in mind, I wonder if it's a quarter of a million quid.

Yeah, 100 grand for the production, and it was all right.

It was pretty cool, like quite funny for us, but I don't think anyone else really got it.

And in a month, we'd spend about 200.

And you wouldn't see it that much.

It's expensive, man.

It's basically back in TZ.

Yeah, digital marketing is, yeah.

Especially if it's a company that's our size.

Maybe like a big gaming company, you know, that 365, William Hill, etc.

and Paddy Power, when they're doing the big sponsorships on the World Corp,

they've got budgets of billions to spend on TV.

Would you ever have a street shop?

Would you ever have a shop in Warrington High Street,

an event or door in it that you could walk in and tap, tap screens and buy tickets?

The problem is, yeah, I think that's a great idea.

I'm going to note that down for you.

I actually got some contracts out.

I think honestly, if you had that seborrheal there,

somewhere in Manchester is like a pop-up shop, and then you had an iPad,

and you could just go like 500 tickets, because she had 25 quid.

Yeah, I reckon, yeah, probably would work.

Although the amount of the it's never going to work like it does digitally.

It's funny because it sounds like a certain competition company that started an airport.

Yeah, BLTB, starting an airport.

You ever met Christian?

I haven't met Christian, and when I, it was, this is, but you've just employed Christian.

I know he's good, isn't he? I like Christian.

He's a good personality. I've never met him though.

But we, this, you've just sparked another thing that I did in my 20s and before Elite.

I saw BLTB in the airport, and then I saw online they were doing Spot the Ball,

and I thought, oh, they're missing out on motorbikes.

So, and then I, this was what I was like.

I get, I found a guy who owned it, William Heimarsch on Company's House.

Yeah.

I guessed his email for BLTB about 50 times.

So I just, W Heimarsch, William.Heimarsch.

I don't know what it was in the end, but I just put it all in BCC,

like that, or I just did it loads of times.

I sent an email saying, I've got a proposal for you.

I'd love to, you know, like a proper constructed email with a PDF attachment of how motorbikes

could plug into their website. And I just wanted 25% of the motorbike side.

And I've just thought that out, come up with it, wrote an email,

guessed the guy's email, and then emailed him.

And to be fair, they didn't go ahead, but one of is like, advises or something.

Maybe a guy called Rupert did that to email him back going,

cheers for the idea, Alex, like appreciate it, but we're not looking to move operations

towards, oh, whatever. I was like fair play. Like that was the sort of shit I was doing.

You know, just like a little idea and you're like, no, I really, I'm going to do this.

And yeah, and he's just sitting there.

The bonkers guys are raffling off a fucking toaster.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, mental.

Yeah, it's fun. It's somewhat different.

There's so many things for us growing up in a digital space.

Just so different how our parents or grandparents would have had that experience or reality,

or think it's so stupid.

Yeah, I know.

Like some of the guys on, but essentially, I think with us, we get to have a silly idea

and it'd be more possible to be reality than they did necessarily.

Yeah. 100%.

A stupid idea can be gold.

I mean, look at, look at just content creators in general making a lot of money.

It's mad, isn't it? Like if you would said that to your parents,

we go, what, you know, about you make money from doing that or, you know, like

smashing an egg on your head or something.

That's what I do.

I don't get it.

Understand how that works.

Yeah.

So day one of smashing an egg on my head, and then you get to like day thousand of

million followers and you're like, wow, proposed.

Yeah.

It's hilarious and it's brilliant though.

I think it gives everyone a bit of freedom of what they want to do.

And you know, do you have like a bit of an inspiration is probably the wrong

word, but look at a few people go, I like that.

I like what you do.

Does Mr. Beast a bit of an ex in place for you?

Yes.

I knew he was.

Love Mr. Beast.

And you know what?

I like the, I like what he stands for and he's very, he seems grounded, obviously never met

him, but you know, he's got, he's got all these companies.

Fantastic.

Seems grounded.

Does a lot of good in the world and it's not all for camera.

I'm sure it's not just the way he comes across.

I did watch a podcast actually.

Was he on with, I think he did a start on that one, didn't he?

And again, I don't, I don't really, I don't watch his podcast, but because Mr.

Beast run it, I just, I watched it and I thought, yeah, I really like Jimmy, really like him.

And we tried to do a couple of things like that.

So we've got another side of the business that I started in November.

I went, what can we do with a bit of our profits that'll make a bit of good in the world?

I got approached by an advertising.

He's becoming a front for best.

No, honestly.

There it is.

I got approached by an advertising company about putting ads on YouTube via a digital agency.

And it was 50 grand.

And I didn't like the guy selling it to us.

And I was like, oh, I don't know.

I don't like it.

It feels like a waste of money.

And then I went into the big office and I wrote on the board.

I went, what can we do with 50 grand a month?

If we don't need this 50 grand a month, what can we do with it?

They'll be, get our name out there.

Also do a bit of good.

And we came up with elite contributions.

So now on the site, you can click it.

We do three videos a week, every week, every single week we do three videos.

I've got two girls full time who run it and we give away 50 grand a month.

And it's anything from charity, fun in the street.

We've done a treasure hunt today, just making people's day.

You know, when there's just money in it or we do a lot of charity stuff we do.

And that is where I'll see the link with like Mr. Beast.

He likes going to Africa and trying to cure the water crisis and stuff like that.

And we're actually doing the same in the Masai Mara.

We've already had one trip out there to Africa.

We're going to get in September and we're putting two new,

we're reinstating two new ball holes and redoing their wells to make,

to do some water treatment for them.

And I love that side.

And I said to the guys, I said, listen, I'm a businessman.

I can't do it.

If it ain't going to pay us anything.

So you need to make videos that get views.

So I get brand awareness, but we also do the good thing.

Brilliant.

Do that.

Do you think you could ever convince another company to change their laws?

Another country to change their laws?

Hmm.

You ever thought about it?

I don't know.

I don't know how high you'd have to go.

I know I'll amaze them in Germany now,

but they run under a red, I think they run completely under a register charity.

So it's a different route.

It would be good.

Can you get me in with any ministers in any of the EU countries?

A lot of them have hypercasts that shouldn't.

Yeah, that's true, actually.

Yeah.

I think it would go down well.

Because it's fixed.

And as long as you do it right, it's fixed odds.

Not fixed, it's fixed odds.

And as long as you do it right, it's funny because if there was going to be,

if no one knew where this was in the world,

and you were like an alien looking down on the world,

and you had to take a bet where this was,

I'm pretty sure because of the nuttiness of it, they'd say America.

Yeah, probably.

Yeah, probably the last place you'd pick is England.

Yeah, because we're all a bit sensible and industrious.

Yeah.

And this is a bit nutty and gambly.

Yeah.

Well, I think it's the best possible place for it because I think

without it being here, it wouldn't have found you and without you,

it wouldn't look like it does.

So I appreciate that.

Alex won hell of a conversation.

Yeah, cheers.

I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people that you also sparked the idea

of going out and biking to get it up there.

And there is a 1% chance, guys, that you can still make that work.

What's your final thought for people that go and do that?

Anyone trying to get into the competition industry, give it a go if you want,

but make sure you're completely obsessed with whatever you're doing it in.

So like you said, you were going to do it in the fishing.

I was right, wasn't it?

And if you've got a passion, follow it.

But I think it'd be a bit hard now.

Maybe the time's gone.

Try and find the next thing.

Nice.

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