The WORST Cars We'd Happily own (don't judge us) | Ep 77 | Drive Torque Podcast
Drive Torque Podcast
The WORST Cars We'd Happily own (don't judge us) | Ep 77 | Drive Torque Podcast
Annotations will appear as you listen
0:00
61:16
Term
pence per mile charging
Pence per mile charging is a way to charge electric vehicle owners based on how far they drive. Instead of a flat fee, you pay a small amount for each mile you travel, which can help keep costs predictable.
Term
hybrids
Hybrids are cars that have both a gas engine and an electric motor. This helps them use less fuel and produce fewer emissions compared to regular cars.
Term
vehicle exercise duty
Vehicle exercise duty is a tax that you have to pay to use your car on the road. It can depend on how much pollution your car makes.
Term
EVs
EVs stand for electric vehicles. These cars run on electricity instead of gas, which means they don't pollute the air like traditional cars do.
Concept
electric or hybrid cars
Electric cars run only on electricity, while hybrid cars use both electricity and gasoline. This change is important for reducing pollution and helping the environment.
Term
electric cars
Electric cars run on electricity instead of gas. They are better for the environment and can save money on fuel over time.
Term
MOT
MOT is a yearly check to make sure cars are safe to drive. It's required in the UK to ensure that vehicles are in good condition and not polluting too much.
Car
Tesla Model
Car
Tesla Model S
The Tesla Model S is a popular electric car that is known for being fast and having a long battery life. It's a luxury car that many people admire.
Brand
Audi
Audi is a car company from Germany that makes high-end cars. They are known for their stylish designs and modern technology.
Brand
Lexus
Lexus is a brand of luxury cars made by Toyota. They are known for being comfortable and high-quality.
Term
pound
A pound is a type of money used in the UK. When someone talks about prices in pounds, they are saying how much something costs in that currency.
Concept
Auto Trader
Auto Trader is a website where people can buy and sell used cars. It's a well-known place to find car listings and prices.
Concept
Parkers
Parkers is a guide that tells you how much used cars are worth. It's popular in the UK and helps people buy and sell cars at fair prices.
Concept
Black Book
Black Book is a service that helps people find out how much used cars are worth. It's often used by car dealers and buyers to get a fair price.
Car
Volkswagen Passat
The Volkswagen Passat is a family car that is roomy and comfortable, making it a good choice for everyday driving.
Car
Porsche Boxster
The Porsche Boxster is a small sports car that you can drive with the top down. It's designed to be fun to drive and is a popular choice for people who want a sporty car that they can use every day.
Term
sailor return
Sailor return means the dealer helps sell your car but doesn't pay you for it right away. They sell it for you and keep it on their lot without buying it first, which can help them have more cars to sell.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car known for its speed and unique shape. It's been around for many years and is loved by car enthusiasts.
Concept
Formula One
Formula One is a popular type of car racing where specially designed cars compete in races called Grands Prix. These races take place on different tracks around the world, and the cars are built for speed and performance.
Concept
Las Vegas Grand Prix
The Las Vegas Grand Prix is a car race that takes place in Las Vegas. It's part of the Formula One series and features fast cars racing on city streets, making it an exciting event for fans.
Term
Formula 1
Formula 1 is a type of car racing that features very fast cars and takes place on special tracks. It's one of the most popular and exciting forms of motorsport.
Brand
McLaren
McLaren is a famous car company that makes fast and expensive cars. They also have a racing team that competes in Formula 1.
Term
Max Verstappen
Max Verstappen is a famous race car driver from the Netherlands who competes in Formula 1. He is known for being very talented and has won many races at a young age.
Car
Oldsmobile Intrigue
The Oldsmobile Intrigue is a regular-sized car that was made a while ago. It's known for being comfortable but had some problems that made it less popular.
Car
Alfa Romeo Brera
The Alfa Romeo Brera is a two-door coupe that looks very stylish and sporty. It was made between 2005 and 2010 and is loved by car fans for its performance and design.
Term
V6
A V6 is a kind of engine that has six cylinders. It's designed to give a good mix of power and fuel efficiency, making cars faster but still relatively economical.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and more powerful the car can be.
Company
ProDrive
ProDrive is a company that makes cars go faster and perform better, especially for racing. They are well-known for their work with Subaru cars in rally racing.
Part
telly dial wheels
Telly dial wheels are a specific style of wheels that look like the dials on old TVs. They are often used on classic cars to give them a unique look.
Car
Lotus Elise
The Lotus Elise is a small, very fast sports car that is really fun to drive. It's known for being light and nimble, making it great for people who love driving.
Car
Fiat 500
The Fiat 500 is a tiny car that looks cute and is easy to drive around town. It's great for city living because it's small and can fit into tight parking spots.
Car
Aston Martin V12 Vantage
The Aston Martin V12 Vantage is a fancy sports car that looks amazing and goes really fast. It's a special car that many people dream of owning.
Car
Mercedes-Benz Vclass
The Mercedes-Benz V-Class is a big, comfortable van that can carry a lot of people. It's nice inside and is good for families or groups.
Car
Skoda Yeti
The Skoda Yeti is a small SUV that has a lot of space inside for people and their stuff. It's good for driving in the city and can handle some rougher roads too.
Car
Renault Megane
The Renault Megane Estate is a roomy car that looks nice and can carry a lot of stuff. It's good for families or anyone who needs extra space for their things.
Car
Bmw 1M
The BMW 1M is a fast and sporty car that's fun to drive. It's a special version of the regular 1 Series and is popular among car lovers.
LIVE
So how long's Rachel Reeves work for or to travel?
This is like in real, real...
You normally only see from here upwards, don't you?
Yeah, I've got legs and everything.
He's an owl.
He's an owl.
He's an owl.
Hey guys and welcome back to the Drive Talk podcast.
Now if you listen to this on any of the audio podcast platforms,
make sure you follow us by the way,
you might not realise that it's a bit different and a bit special,
but if you're watching it on YouTube,
you'll have spotted that we're actually together
for the first time in ages.
We're not recording it online.
We are and it feels really...
I've been like a kid in the sweet shop.
We've been here about an hour and a half
just discussing things with Michelin and James
and just catching up,
but I feel really excited to be around you guys.
It's quite nice.
It's nice, yeah.
I love the backdrop we've got as well.
It's a pretty cool place.
Where are we?
Escapade.
Escapade, yeah.
Behind the camera that way, it's dark now,
but literally maggots and beckets.
Yeah, it's pretty special.
It's unbelievable.
These are houses that you can basically rent out
and come and stay just like a hotel.
So we needed somewhere to host a couple of podcasts
and get together at the end of the year
and we've come here and it's great.
We have.
Could we swap cushions actually?
Because your laptop's covering that one.
We need to get our product placement.
God forbid, why would we talk about Michelin, James?
Well, they are our headline sponsor
and we're very grateful to have them.
So that's why I want this.
I've got some branding on my laptop.
Oh, that's good.
That was very good, yeah.
Oh, there's a weird one.
That came off one of the cars earlier on
as it was going through maggots.
Yeah, literally.
Back off and up onto the balcony.
Yeah, I caught it with one hand, put it up there.
Big in the game.
Now, we've got loads and loads of things to talk about.
The thing I'm looking forward to most
and we were meant to do it in the last podcast
but we ran out of time,
is we've called it crap cars we want to own.
Yeah, well, this was my idea and I thought
that means Joe and I are going to get it really badly wrong.
Well, I don't know.
I think Joe normally just likes good cars
or at least he thinks he does anyway.
But there's a lot of quirky stuff.
There's a lot of interesting stuff that I like.
Oh, I quite like that.
But they're actually objectively or reviewed by journalists,
you know, people of stature.
Terrible cars.
So yeah, I think we've got a few each
and I'd be intrigued to hear what you guys have got.
I think there will be some controversial ones.
I quite like mine because I've found three
and it's when you go on to AutoTrader
and you select, I've selected like pretty much
the most expensive of these ones on AutoTrader
and they're still all, each one's under 15 grand.
That's great.
Wait, did you just say AutoTrader?
You mean you could just reserve one for £9?
Oh, no, we'll get onto that in a second.
He's an hour.
Now, we've got quite a bit of,
I think we've got some steam to let off our chests
because actually today, as of filming, has been budget day.
Yes.
Rachel Reeves has come through and...
Oh, what a superstar.
I mean, we're a very apolitical podcast, but yeah.
Well, me and Jo are, I'm not sure about you, but...
Well, yeah, okay, all right.
So we're going to try and do this in the most apolitical way.
What the hell was she thinking?
Well, I think firstly, Pete, you need to run through for us
what she said related to cars.
Well, the one...
Don't go through the whole budget
because we don't have time for that, but...
Really, really...
The main one I want to talk about,
and I actually talked about this a little bit on my channel
because there were rumours that it was going to happen,
and she's gone one step beyond what the rumours were.
So the first thing is she's introducing
pence per mile charging for EVs,
and that's going to be three pence per mile,
but the kind of will she won't she chat
was whether she would do it to hybrids,
and she's bought in a one and a half pence per mile charge
for plug-in hybrids.
And now a question for you as the person
that has researched this.
Is that in addition to road tax,
or what you would always correct me and say
is vehicle exercise duty?
Exercise duty.
Wait, what is it?
Exercise.
Oh, exercise.
Yeah, you can tell I don't pay attention.
Oh, that's good.
So the justification behind it is that,
at the moment, the government make a lot of money
from fuel duty, whether that's petrol or diesel.
And as petrol and diesel car usage drops off,
the amount of petrol and diesel we buy will reduce,
and therefore the amount of tax revenue
the government make will reduce.
So they're trying to kind of plug the gap
with plug-in hybrids, excuse the pun,
but to try and make some revenue from EVs.
I believe, and I need to check the details,
that that will also mean that EVs
are going to have vehicle exercise duty,
but at the basic rate of £195 a year.
Okay, so this will be in addition to there.
Which is what the maximum tax rate was
not so many years ago.
It was about 250 quid.
So the bit that frustrates me,
well actually there's lots of things that frustrate me,
but how are they going to implement it?
I have absolutely no idea.
Because I guess the only equivalent I can think of
at the moment is if you're claiming mileage,
let's say you're doing business miles,
and you claim mileage and you're claiming that back
off the inland revenue,
you can claim 45 pence a mile for the first 10,000 miles,
and then after that it drops down to 25 pence a mile.
But it's kind of up to you to police that,
and when you get to 10,000 miles,
drop your rate down to 25 pence a mile.
And I know you can get it checked in your kind of,
you know, your tax return and all that kind of stuff.
How are they going to do this whole pence per mile thing?
I hear it's something that's going to be as simple as
just basically you put in what your annual mileage is,
and that's what you pay.
Because it can't be done on a telemetry thing,
or a little black box thing.
I was thought with pence per mile.
I mean, ultimately, that would be the ultimate way of doing it,
is you put a little black box in everybody's car,
and that's where you get,
and I, you know, can I see a point in the distance,
the maybe not too far future where
all road taxing is done on a usage basis?
Well, I think that's what this is introducing,
because the other thing that we've just introduced
in the country is the fact that by 2030,
all cars sold will have to be electric or hybrid.
And that's been brought forward for years.
And do you know why they've said they've done that?
To make it clearer for manufacturers to understand what the future is.
I have the government.
No idea what's going on in the car industry at the moment.
I know we've said this a few times,
but it's not often you have sympathy for manufacturers,
but it's really tough selling cars at the moment.
Yeah, it is.
And it's really tough selling electric cars.
And I don't care what people say,
oh, you know, they're doing really, really well on sales and electric.
If you look at the targets they've got,
the ZV mandate target this year is 28%.
The last time I checked, which was a couple of months ago, admittedly,
they weren't even at 21%.
They're never going to hit 28%.
And that's without people going, oh, hold on a minute.
You mean I'm going to have to pay three pence a mile?
Even if at 10,000 miles a year, that's only 300 pounds,
which is maybe the same as a vehicle exercise.
But it's still, it's just another barrier.
Disincentivising electric car ownership,
which is if they want to bring it forward by five years
and they want everybody to be in them theoretically by 2030 or beyond,
they're making it worse.
Honestly, everything contradicts everything.
I mean, that's politics in a nutshell, really.
But I just, yeah, I think without going on about it for too long,
I think it's just, it's making it more confusing,
more difficult for everyone, the manufacturer, the end user,
more expensive for everyone.
We're getting nowhere.
We're not saving the planet by doing any of this.
The whole thing is a mess.
It's a joke and it all stems from a bunch of politicians that don't know how to wipe their
ass, let alone talk about this particular subject.
They don't know anything about it.
And I think like you mentioned earlier on the black box thing,
I think that's exactly what's going to happen.
The thing is all these electric cars,
unfortunately, most of them have got the infrastructure to tell big brother how far
you've been, how far you haven't been, what you've been doing.
And that's the scary thing about electric cars.
And a lot of people, people that have been accused of wearing tinfoil hats from day one,
a lot of these people have said, you watch in a 10 years time,
we're all going to be controlled as to what we can do with our car, what we,
and actually looking at it, it's all slowly coming together.
And the control is there and it's scary.
There is one way in which mileage is currently clocked every year.
MOT.
MOT.
But happens only after the third year.
So brand new vehicles onto the market.
Now you could change that and you could make that from year one.
You have to get an MOT.
But as we're seeing with electric cars and to sing their praises partially,
they have less moving parts and MOT on an electric car for the first three years is likely
to show up less issues.
Like you're building more cost to consumers again.
You're putting more work for garages, which maybe boost the economy slightly.
But electric cars are, I wouldn't say less likely that's the wrong terminology,
but there is no incentive for anybody to have their car omitted in those first three years.
But maybe it's again, something that's forced on.
But also talking about electric cars just quickly going off a tiny tangent.
And I know I shouldn't be, but we were down at elite garages
in Dorchester about a month ago or a few weeks ago.
And talking to the MOT guys down there about MOT electric cars.
And there's so little that they're allowed to touch with electric cars that actually
like suspension.
I was asking, I was like, you know, what are you seeing more wear and breaks and
suspension components, ball joints, that sort of thing?
Cause they're heavier.
They're not allowed to take any of the stuff.
They're not allowed to actually inspect anything on an electric car
because they're covered up with under trays like normal cars are.
But in a normal car, you can have a look around, you know,
wheel arch suspension components a bit, make sure it's all solid bit and electric cars.
You're not allowed to touch any of that because the electrification,
none of that's been changed.
I'm going to push back on that.
Yes.
It depends on your level of, if you're level three or level four, you can.
It's just a case of whether you've got the people in the garage that...
No, but an MOT.
No, I'm talking about the car.
An MOT test station.
Yeah, yeah.
To pass MOT.
That's across, that's across any vehicle.
The MOT, the way because my brother was a mechanic and did MOTs.
And so as simple as if you had rust on a car, but you cover it with duct tape or something,
they can't then validate that there's rust there because there's tape over it.
They can't, they can't remove the tape.
That'd be good for my mini.
They can't, they can't remove the tape to reveal the rust.
No, they can't touch anything.
And so an electric car.
A cornflake box covering up a hole in the door.
Same thing.
Almost by design, electric cars are obviously as smooth through the air as possible.
Everything is covered.
And so you're right.
They, they can't even see the components they would traditionally need to test.
And they're not allowed to reveal them.
Yeah, I'm not talking servicing.
I'm talking about like to pass the MOT.
They can't actually inspect these components.
So they just have to put pass.
And that's how, that's how it is.
They said that they haven't updated or changed the MOT process at all in the last 10 years.
I guess the thing though, I suppose, what's the oldest electric cars on the road?
They're going to be like 10 years old.
Tesla Model S.
Yeah, that's sort of been being MOT for the last seven years.
Yeah, yeah.
While I'm driving it.
It is.
Right, next subject.
Next up.
Next final thing on the budget.
They increase the luxury car threshold in which you pay luxury car tax for brand new electric cars.
So like I think about 50,000.
Has that moved?
Yeah, it's just moved.
Oh, now that.
Oh, okay.
I'll give them, I'll give them a one point for actually understanding a little bit.
Yeah.
That, that's quite a lot because if your car tips into that 40k
or above, your first five years of ownership is really expensive.
Okay.
So that's a positive thing.
It is.
I mean, yeah.
Okay.
That's that's pretty good.
Okay.
Next one.
And actually this is a budget thing as well.
Is it is the motability scheme?
I'm not sure if that came out in the budget, but it's just the same day.
Well, the last few days, the government have obviously been making lots of different announcements.
Some renters reform acts and various different things.
But yeah, part of that is the, the motability scheme has seemingly reduced the
range of models in which you can get.
I think I don't fully understand it.
Maybe you can explain more.
Well, I think I've just seen all that like premium cars removed.
Yes.
And we could get some really upset listeners if we're not careful on this one, couldn't we?
If it's,
You could.
No, I guess, you know, you've got to, you know,
look at your budgets and how much money you've got.
And if you're getting a free car because your needs, your motability needs,
just give them all cheap Chinese electric cars.
Yeah, I think the main thing with the motability scheme is that all vehicles
should suffice for the job that they're needed.
So if you're in a wheelchair and you need that kind of access,
there should be vehicles, Citroen, Billingos and equivalents.
I think the problem with the premium brands was that potentially people were paying
additional of their own money.
So they were kind of upgrading their experience.
Like when you come to a hotel and they go, would you like to have a suite?
Or you get extra legroom seat on an airplane.
Exactly.
So I think that was the problem that people on motability and people that
potentially were on other benefits as well were using that additional benefit money
to get a more premium model and to not lag, but to have a vehicle or an experience that
isn't just for the motability needs.
And obviously we would all want people to have a vehicle that suits their motability needs.
They just don't need to have a fancy car.
I think we need to research this more because it's interesting.
I was talking to someone about it yesterday and apparently the luxury brands,
like they've already named a few, I think like Audi.
So once again, it's hard for the Germans because they said a lot of their cars over here
on that scheme.
So once again, the Germans.
The two series grand tour.
Yeah, I think so the Germans once again are getting a thick end of stick.
And guess what?
You just said it jokingly a second ago, Chinese car.
Maybe you didn't.
Yeah, that was me.
But guess or you did.
But guess what?
The Chinese cars are going to benefit again.
It's like, wow, this is once again just completely ruining the European car industry.
But what's interesting, what this person pointed out was they've named the German,
but they haven't.
And it sounds like they're only going to use like pick specific,
not just luxury cars.
It's going to be specific cars.
So there's no mention of Lexus.
And yeah, yeah, yeah.
But then to me, Lexus fits in the same category as Audi and Porsche and BMW.
So it's again, it just seems like an absolutely brainless move that hasn't been thought out properly.
No, I can't imagine that.
Well, you're right.
Because you can buy a 50,000 pound BMW marked car, a BMW of any kind description they might see.
But you can also spend 50,000 pound on various of those other brands that might still be in the scheme.
So yeah, I think that, yeah, it seems like I'm currently driving a 52,000 pound Cooper.
That's crazy.
Right.
Next subject.
Yeah.
I'm going to be in charge of pushing them along.
This is very unusual for you.
Yeah, maybe they can go home.
Unless it's a point that I really want to hammer home, then I'm pushing them along.
Well, interestingly, kind of links a little bit to our challenge later,
because we're looking at some cars and the kind of go to for us on the podcast
has always been auto trader.
Yes.
It seems that auto trader have made a few people quite unhappy in recent time.
It all seems like it's come to a head, because I think it's been a slow burn up until now.
But I know, Joe, you've watched a bunch of videos, so maybe you can educate us more.
But yeah, well, I think today's world that we live in with podcasts and YouTube channels and stuff,
you know, as good size and good, good sides and bad sides.
But it also gives a lot of people a platform and a voice that wouldn't have otherwise had it
in the past, i.e., smaller car dealers and stuff, or even the bigger car dealers.
So they've just had to sit back and go, yep, okay, fees are going up.
But anyway, long story short, if you haven't watched or aware of it,
I would advise going online and searching auto trader on YouTube,
because there's a lot of recent, really interesting YouTube videos about it.
But essentially, it sounds like auto trader have become more and more greedy
and started charging, especially dealerships, because they pay for packages.
So it's not just a case of if we put up a private car, I don't know what it is these days,
100 quid, probably maybe more to advertise your car.
But if you're a dealership, they're like 7,5, 10 grand, 20 grand packages.
Yeah, and you're paying for an amount of cars.
Amount of cars.
And all the support and services that come with that.
But those are quite, I think some of the dealerships have said it's their single largest cost.
It is auto trader.
We're talking 10, 15, 20 grand a month.
But the flip side of that is, undoubtedly,
every time we talk about cars in this podcast, we go to auto trader.
It is the Bible, isn't it?
It is the biggest platform.
It always has been since we were young.
I even had someone, it was a kind of indirect quote here,
saying that auto trader effectively set the used car price, really.
It used to be like Black Book and Parkers and all that kind of stuff.
Exchange and mark.
Yeah, and now it's like, oh no, the auto trader set the price.
We can't knock anything off the road.
We all go straight to auto trader to look at values if you're selling a car and stuff.
You get a good idea of it.
But basically, they introduced, I think earlier this year,
or maybe it's been going for a few years, but they've really started.
Now I think you have to use it.
A thing called Deal Breaker.
Deal Builder.
Deal Builder.
Not exercise.
Actually, it definitely doesn't break the deal.
That's the whole thing.
If it broke the deal, it would be great, but it's not.
It builds it, but at that point, it could go any direction, and this is the problem.
So essentially, if you're looking at whatever it might be,
and it's a main dealer, you will probably get the option on auto trader
of reserving that car for £99, which sounds great.
And tonight, after we finished the podcast, had a few glasses of wine,
any of us could go onto our laptops and go,
oh, well, that looks a bit tempting.
I'm going to reserve that for £99.
That then, to my understanding, takes that car out of sale.
So if it's a small dealership that has 15 cars,
you've suddenly removed that car because someone on an auto trader
has paid £99 to reserve it.
And auto trader have got the rights to that car for 30 days.
And at any time, you could just pull out of that, to my understanding.
But what makes it even worse is they've also added in, because it's a deal builder,
it builds.
If you've got a car to trade in, so Patrick's got his Passat to trade in,
they'll give you a trading cost.
But again, looking at some of the examples that these YouTube channels have talked about,
you could say, you could have smashed the rear end of your car.
It's got no rear bumper, no front bumper, all the sides are scratched.
It needs a full respray, new bumpers, whatever.
But if you put all that down, they will quote that, well, it's worth £500 less than book value,
because it's like it's so sort of connected or disconnected to the real world.
So not only have you now got this customer that's gone, I think I'm going to have that for 99 quid,
they've said they're going to give me eight grand for my Passat that's basically written off.
And that's the thing to be clear about here.
Auto trader aren't making an offer for them to buy the car.
No, no, no.
Like if we buy any car or anything like that.
They're negotiating it for the dealer.
But anyway, I'm not going to go too far into it because I don't fully understand it.
But I do sympathize with all of the dealers out there because I think
it's a real case of auto trader biting off more than they can chew
and becoming very corporate and very greedy.
And they need to be careful because I think it's not impossible for other
brands to come out there and replicate what they've done so well for so many years.
But as we know, companies can rise and fall very quickly.
And I think the best way to summarize this was the one that I watched with the YouTube.
I can't remember his name, but he runs a car garage and he went on a live stream with auto
trader employees.
And he was asking and it kind of explains it well simply.
It's like, who is auto trader's customer?
Now a customer to most businesses is the person that generates them revenue.
Auto trader perceive their customer to be the client buying a car.
So you going onto the platform looking for a car and so they build a platform that suits
the way that you search and maybe you want to reserve a car so you can go see it in a
week's time or something.
And so they have that mentality.
The reality is their entire revenue is driven by dealers because all of the money they make
on their platform is because dealers pay these increasing ever increasing fees through advertising
fees and marketing fees.
And so actually their customers should be dealers.
They should be appeasing and working with dealers not to rip off customers,
but to offer them an experience that benefits their business.
Because the only reason you would have auto trader should be to benefit your business to
sell more cars, to sell cars at a better price, to sell cars in a market that is super competitive
with all these, you know, kind of bigger garages out there, having the independence, having
that fair voice across the same platform.
But I think yeah, auto trader maybe misunderstood that they think their customer is and is actually
the garage's customer is the consumer.
Auto trader is just a search engine, really.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then yeah, so I'm going back to that customer who's just bought Pats Passat supposedly
bought it, but hasn't really.
No, because it's never for sale.
Yeah, someone walks in off the street or has also seen it on AutoTrader or on their own
website, comes in, who's really actually wanting to buy it.
And sorry, no, that was the trading, wasn't it?
Well, anyway, that car, they come in, but then that car's there, but they can't have it.
And the dealer can't sell it to this person.
It's in the dealership because it's reserved by someone they don't know anything about.
Yeah, they've not test driven the car.
They've done no background.
They don't know if they've got any money, if they can pay for it.
So how long's Rachel Reeves work for AutoTrader?
He brings it back to, I've just found the guy, the logbook UK, 49,000 subs.
I'm sure he had about 30, like two weeks ago.
But he's done, like honestly, his original video has done 452,000 views.
It's worth a watch.
It's really good.
And he will give you a good insight as to what is going on.
He's very straight talking.
It's great.
But there you go.
Next subject.
Well, talking of car dealers with problems.
Now, you've got the car dealers working on AutoTrader, but we've also been seeing in the
industry an issue of SOR cars and the industry.
Yes.
And I guess it all kicked off with GVE, which is a few months ago now.
Yeah, it would be.
Yeah, definitely a few months.
But I didn't know this, what you told me.
I didn't know.
So a sailor return, right?
So I actually did a video on this at the beginning of the year.
When I was selling my Boxster, I worked with a small specialist dealer that I know,
and they sold my car sailor return.
And although I'd heard the term, I never really understood what it was and the benefits and
so on.
So if we look at it, benefit for me selling my car.
So the dealer sold my car, but they basically don't pay me for the car.
So they can have stock on their forecourt that they haven't had to buy.
And especially with someone like GVE, where those cars are probably super cars,
they haven't got multi-million pound inventory.
But they'll take the car, they'll prepare it for sale.
That normally means a valid and a clean.
And then the sale, because they're selling it as a dealer,
they can sell it with things like a warranty, full kind of dealer services.
And then they charge me to sell the car for me.
And would that be like a fixed fee or like a percentage?
It depends on the dealer, but it's probably anything from, let's say,
three to five thousand pounds, right?
Which you'd say, well, hold on a minute, that's a shed load of money.
I'll just sell it myself on AutoTrader.
The argument would be, if you sold it on AutoTrader as a private seller,
you're going to have people rocking up to your house.
You've got to deal with test drives and insurance on test drives.
If it's an expensive car, you're not going to be able to offer finance,
whereas a dealer can offer finance.
So it kind of just makes it maybe a little bit more tricky to sell.
So when you're selling a more expensive car,
sale or return kind of starts to make sense.
So in three to five thousand pounds, what rough valuation of a vehicle?
So I saw, I mean, as an example, I sold my Boxter for just over fifty thousand pounds.
And it would have been five thousand pounds to sell the car.
And a dealer might take a bit more, like a traditional dealer,
if you were to par-exit in a traditional sense,
maybe take a little bit more.
And so the incentive there is that you have this fixed cost that you know is coming out.
But also, with a dealer, it's a bit different,
because if Ped was going straight into a Porsche dealer,
then you'd get into another car.
But with sale and return, you don't necessarily have to be buying anything for them.
It just has to fit their current stock.
If you're selling a car and buying another car straight away,
then trading it in, and I've always par-texted cars in before,
for me, this time round, I wanted to sell the car in advance of me buying the other car.
I knew the 911 that fucking blew up, excuse me, excuse my French, twice.
So that's sale or return.
You think, well, that's cool.
So you could set up a dealership,
and you can get a whole bunch of stock in, sale or return.
Now, you're not going to make as much margin as you would do
if you had bought the car in for stock and sell it.
But you don't have to finance a whole bunch of stock.
The challenge comes, and I think this is probably where GVE fell foul,
and this is the bit I didn't know until I spoke to a mate of mine who is in this game,
is that when you buy a car from a dealer, you get full consumer rights.
So you can take the car back up to 90 days, and they have to give you money back.
Well, the problem with that is the owner of the car who you've sold the car for
has got their money and walked off, and that's them out of the equation now.
You've walked away.
I've sold my car.
I'm a dealer.
Sold my car with a warranty.
You're done.
I've got my money.
Well, thank you, Ricky.
You've signed the V5 off.
Off I go.
It's got nothing to do with me anymore.
The dealer who sold the car on sale or return,
30 days later, the guy comes back and says,
I'm sorry, I've got to give the car back.
And you've got to obviously give you a decent reason to do that.
But the dealers then got to buy the car back with what?
They're going to have to have to find the money to buy the car back.
Financing arrangement.
Like a traditional dealership.
And they've got to buy it back at full cost.
At the cost of the sold it too.
So then that car has now got another owner in it as well.
Yeah, and then they've got to then sell it.
All right.
We've no margin in that car in theory.
Exactly.
Right, so my mate, Dan was saying, he said, it's great,
but every time you sell a car, sale or return,
you basically lie awake at night for three months,
hoping the car doesn't come back.
And the day that that three months is gone, you're like,
sell another one.
And that, I think that, I don't know the circumstances around GVE.
I think there was a lot of stuff going on down there.
There's a lot of other stuff going on.
But I, that's the bit I didn't really get.
And I was like, ooh.
And I'm sure there's loads of people watching this going,
duh, what do you mean you didn't know?
I didn't have a clue when you told me off camera.
No, just, you know, but sale or return as a way to sell a car
is a good option.
The option I really don't understand is the whole WeeBurnyCar.com thing.
Because whenever I've tried to find a valuation of a car on WeeBurnyCar.com,
it's so pitifully rubbish.
I mean, they're just looking at auction valuations, I'd assume, right?
And it's a, I guess the only benefit I would offer to a service like that is like,
if you want to get rid of your car tomorrow,
you need to get rid of your car.
It's in Asda's car park.
You can just drive over there.
It's exactly the same as here.
What are those shops, you still get them in London,
in so much of London.
Yeah, that's exactly what it is.
It's like, I need to get rid of my car right now.
T-A-W-N, by the way.
Oh, yeah, that's a shot.
Like that TV show Pawn Stars.
That's the one, yeah.
So there we go.
Okay.
No, it's very interesting.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, as a McLaren fan, it pains me to bring this subject up.
But, but, but.
Den, den, den, den.
Baron, Max, first down.
Den, den, den, den.
So bear in mind, we've got a formula on circuit,
literally through that window.
So, clearly, we just had Las Vegas Grand Prix
as of recording, was last weekend.
And I was telling to the guys,
the guys, I was watching it because it was a,
I think it was on from 4am till 6am.
4am was the race time, yeah.
I woke up, I sat there in bed having a cup of tea
and I put the race on and I watched the race
and Trace sat next to me and stuff.
And I get to the end of the race
and obviously, you know, it's a pretty good result
for McLaren and especially for Lando
because he's ahead of Oscar and all this is great.
And I went, ah, brilliant.
And she went, before you get up,
I just checked the new.
What do you mean?
Because clearly, we're like,
three hours ahead of the finish of the race
and I hadn't checked social media
because I didn't want to know.
You don't want to ruin the race result, yeah.
And I just opened up the BBC website and just went, oh, sake.
Both McLaren's disqualified.
And I mean, clearly the team messed up in a big way
but the thing I want to talk about is the speed
at which some of the memes hit the internet.
Oh my God, it's the best.
It's the best, yeah.
F1 troll is just brilliant.
The F1 world for memes and jokes.
Oh, I got one.
It looked just like a real McLaren shop, right?
But it was skid plate signed by...
So it's a McLaren skid plate signed by Max Verstappen
in the McLaren.
I love Max sanding the plank.
But what it does is, oh my God, it throws the...
Two races and a sprint left.
And from nowhere, Max has come from nowhere.
He's 24 points behind.
He's the same amount of points behind as Piastry, is it?
Piastry, they're level.
They're both the same.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, I mean, the only way Lander can win is Katar next, isn't it?
He's got a beat in my top sprint.
Yeah, he's got to get two more points than those two
and then he's fine.
But that is a tall order because Max is doing very well.
And he is winning races at the moment.
Although their car isn't quite as suited
to the last two circuits as the McLaren,
but it is going to be all up there.
The amount of FIA conspiracy theories and stuff.
Yeah, it's like, oh, come on.
Michael Massey doesn't work there anymore,
so that's not a concern.
Yeah, I'm one of those.
As someone who's not really into F1,
I just watch it and I'm like, this year,
I mean, they really...
Because the thing is like MotoGP this year,
it was over so quickly because Mark Marquez dominated.
And the viewing figures have completely dropped off
since Japan or whatever it was when he took the title three months ago.
And you just look at it and you're like,
I know, listen, people could accuse me of whatever,
but I am one of those people.
Just look at F1 and I'm like,
there's so much money involved in that sport now.
It is just all it's about is the show.
And if the show was over, then the show's over.
So it's like the whole Oscar thing.
Like Oscar was just incredible when he dropped off a cliff.
You look at Max, he's been so up and down all year.
And then suddenly, and it's just, I don't know.
I sit there, I'm not saying anything is happening,
but if we found out years later that something was happening,
like we have done in many things in F1 over the years,
I wouldn't be sitting there going, oh, well, that's a surprise.
I mean, I watched a high performance podcast with Zach Brown last week
and he was asked about that very thing.
And he basically said, there's absolutely no way
with all the sponsors that we have as a team,
that we would not give both our drivers the absolute equal kit
and the best chance of winning.
There's no way we'd cobble one of our drivers
to favor another one.
It just wouldn't happen.
And I kind of get that.
And I don't know, but it has been a kind of,
yeah, it's just on nowhere.
But I mean, hey, the end of the season is going to be.
It's going to be a fun one.
Even I'm going to watch those races.
And then the other bit of news is literally just dropped.
Just before we started recording is Adrian Newey
has just been announced as team principal
of the Aston Martin Formula 1 team.
Which is literally a few hundred metres away.
We should have gone over there for a live report.
He shouldn't have been like, here we are live outside of.
I mean, his first job is to get rid of Stroll Jr.
That was literally about to be my first job.
Out the door.
Surely his first job is to get one more competent driver.
Can you see that ever happening?
No, they've just signed him a contract.
It's just a new contract.
Absolutely.
Yeah, well, that's, I mean, good on Adrian.
I mean, I love Adrian Newey, he's an absolute legend.
I think we thought that was, initially,
there was, when he obviously left Red Bull,
that was the initial like, oh, he's going Aston, right?
Or yeah, he was already signed up,
but it was what role he was going to take.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was designing the car.
But I mean, yeah, let's see.
I mean, it's great.
I mean, had it not been for Hornergate,
you'd have put Christian Horner there,
but I don't think him and, yeah.
No, let's do much more.
Well, Christian, there's whispers of Christian
going in Ferrari, isn't there?
Yeah, it's just what they need.
Well, Ferrari needs something.
Do you know what I mean?
That's right.
It's a full team.
That is, I mean, I've never been the biggest Lewis fan,
but I just look at him now and he looks so deflated
and just, he's looked so over it.
And it's just like, what a nightmare.
When he got the head of Ferrari,
basically saying the drivers,
you know what I mean?
I mean, throwing the drivers under the bus is like,
yeah.
The worst thing you can do.
Now then.
Right.
Uh-oh.
Crap car challenge, come on.
Yes, let's bring it on.
I don't say I'm fine.
I know I'm going to get this one wrong, but you know.
There is no right and wrong though with this.
I think part of these challenges
and the intrigue for me is always,
how are you going to get them wrong?
And how are you going to interpret them?
Yeah, because I mean, most of the cars that you choose
is in the good challenges are crap anyway.
But I mean, this is something where we would love the audience,
especially if you're watching on YouTube,
to get involved with and give us your crap car
that you would love to own in the comments below.
And while you're there, make sure you subscribe.
Make sure you subscribe.
And obviously, let us know how much you agree
with my choices over everyone else's.
That'd be great.
We've got three each.
So if everybody wants to rank them.
Yeah.
So who's going first?
Well, you should go first.
Yeah, you go first, see how well you've understood this.
I have gone for...
You've got to show us pictures of it.
I will. I've got a picture up there.
Oh, I don't have pictures.
I found a really nice one as well.
Okay.
I've gone for a car that I've always liked the looks of,
especially the front end.
However, and it is a really big however,
they are lambasted as being awful to drive.
Okay, that sounds like...
They look great.
Have you had one of these in your channel this year?
No, no, shut up, Patrick.
Is it a voxel muck or electric?
Now, and they do, they do like a coupe version
and a spider version.
But I've gone for the coupe version.
Okay.
Right.
Okay.
Go on.
And it is...
You can't tease us anymore.
An Alfa Romeo.
Oh, I've chose one of them.
Oh, no, which one?
Brerah.
Oh!
Now I'm in the same boat.
I think, yeah, I'd like to own one of those.
Yeah.
That'd be cool.
Now, this one.
This is hilarious, yeah.
Alfa Romeo Brerah, right?
It's...
Is it a V6?
3.2 V6.
Yes.
But this is the ProDrive,
like the super fast one that they did.
Oh, yes.
It has 31,500 miles on the clock.
Okay.
The front, which 2010, it's a manual.
Yep.
Right.
I wonder if I can get some power.
340 horsepower.
It's quite a lot.
It's quite a lot.
So that must be chipped.
That must be chipped.
No, no.
This is the ProDrive one.
Oh, yes.
Okay.
That's what I was saying.
Because the regular 3.2 wasn't that much.
It's got an auto delta supercharger.
Wow.
Supercharger.
Oh, that's where the powers come from.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Very condition.
Touring gray.
And it's 11,000 pounds.
Wow.
That's very impressive.
Now, you have misinterpreting the challenge here.
Because...
I see.
Well, because on the way up here,
I did say get period correct reviews of the cars.
Not auto-trader lists.
I couldn't find that in the time.
Oh, yeah.
No, you said we could.
Add that to it.
Well, I don't want the audience to feel like...
The audience aren't stupid enough to know that Alfa Romeo is crap.
Absolutely crap.
Yeah.
But look at it.
I mean, look at the front of that.
And those three lights, because that's configuration three lights.
You've got that on the 1.5 line as well.
You've got the three lights,
because only one of them works.
Sorry.
They all do the same thing.
It's like your Ami dashboard.
Same kind of front end on the 1.5.9.
And then the Spyder,
I think the Spyder probably looks even nicer than that.
But I like the back of that.
I think that.
I think that's cool.
Yeah.
Round it back.
And for 11 grand.
11 grand.
I mean, it'll never work.
It'll never be out of the garage.
No.
But...
No.
So...
Very good.
You can see there's a really big garage behind that photo,
which we'll put up for the audience.
Yeah, it's probably...
That's where he fixes it.
He's probably got his workshop in there.
I mean, he's got telly dial wheels and everything on there.
Telly dial wheels are cool.
Yeah, that is a pop of the kit.
Does this mean we've all got an Alfa Romeo?
Right, I think it does.
I mean, that's a given, because you said crap cars.
Yeah, that we'd love to own.
Yeah.
So you can't be a petrolhead without...
I think you're an ex-Alfa Romeo.
That's the point.
I said, I've never owned an Alfa.
You had one, but nearly killed yourself in it.
Yeah, twice.
Twice, yeah.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
One of them I owned.
One of them, me and Joe borrowed.
Yeah.
So, well, my first car, it's also an Alfa Romeo.
And it also has a 3.2-litre V6 in it.
It's probably got the Busso engine.
Is that what it's called?
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes.
It's 147.
3.2 GTA.
A car that I've got...
I personally think is better looking than the Brara.
Yeah, I'd make an argument for that.
Again.
It's a bit easy now, or is that standard?
Well, I think this is a very...
This is like...
That's a pop-bang colour, isn't it?
Picture in the background.
Hang on.
Is this car won awards?
Yeah, it's won awards.
So, it's a very...
It's a very petrol, Joe.
Well, this one's a little bit more expensive.
You can get them.
They've got two on...
Here we go.
Auto-trader at the moment.
Don't like promoting them right now.
But there's two.
There's one for eight grand,
which actually got lower miles,
but it's a bit tatty.
Or there's this one that is immaculate,
but it's on 116,000 miles.
And they're asking 20 grand,
which I think is a bit punchy.
Just say 35,000.
Yeah, they've reduced...
It was 25 grand in August.
It's down to 20.
So, give it a couple of months.
It'll be five grand.
But it's...
But it's...
That got gold wheels and red.
Yeah, it's cool.
It's cool, yes.
So, again, a car that...
I think every article...
I've never driven one,
but every article I've read about it
over the years or watched videos,
everyone says it's pretty crap,
apart from the engine,
but I really want it.
So, so me and you both got crap alphas.
Pat, are you going to...
Is this going to be like a royal flush?
I've got an alfamare as well, of course.
I love how we've all got an alphas.
Now, I've had the pleasure of owning the alfamare.
I'm about to...
Oh, yes.
And it's an alfamare 4C.
It is universally panned,
although Chris Harris on the first...
I don't understand why it was panned,
because I've driven one.
And I mean, it's like driving
a really expensive Lotus Elise.
It's like...
That wants to kill you.
Yeah, it wants to kill you.
Yeah.
Like, so Chris Harris,
when he first drove one on a test track
out in Italy,
I remember that video.
This thing's amazing.
And there was one of the videos
that kind of sold me and wanting the car.
Then when he took it onto,
like, wet UKB Rosie,
he was like,
this thing wants to kill you.
And every review,
including the top gear one
that I've got up here
that we'll share to the thing,
gave it five out of 10.
Because the basic theory of it,
carbon fiber tub.
Oh, yeah.
Carbon fiber monocoque, amazing.
Yeah.
Very light, under 1,000 kilos.
And 50 grand new, wasn't it?
Looks unbelievable, I must say.
But it looks ridiculous.
They've launched a concept of that,
a good word.
And it was going to be...
It was going to be less than 50 grand.
Yeah.
It was going to be like,
and I'm going to have one.
But the problem was,
the interior was worse quality
than a Fiat 500.
And I will say that,
someone who owned one.
It was a terrible interior.
Plastics.
Like, looking at the carbon fiber tub was cool.
Yeah.
But the rest of it was terrible.
The infotainment was terrible.
Speakers were terrible.
Which is a small part of a car like this.
And if it was raining
and you opened the boot,
no, that would be full of water.
I had to replace my boot
because it got moldy at one point.
That was one of the things
I did do with the car
in my 18 month ownership.
The screen inside of it,
like the info,
not the infotainment,
but the dashboard was really like subpar.
Or again, like early Fiat 500 kind of territory.
The gearbox didn't really change gear
when you used the paddles.
It never really thought about it.
Yeah.
It was like, you'd press the pan of light.
Like one of those kind of vehicles.
I think what sums up that car
is Pete from Petroed tours.
When we were in Italy or something.
Yeah.
One of the fuel batches.
Which is the app because it's Italian.
And we parked up and Pete was like,
oh, mate, give us,
we had a spider one.
Right.
Yeah.
It was like, mate,
could I just take that out for a quick drive?
I think Tim, it was Schme,
it was in charge of it.
Tim was like, yeah, take it out for a drive.
It was a press car.
And Pete took it out.
Pete's a very, very handy driver,
especially on the road.
Anyway, he came back with a big smile on his face.
But he just said,
that car just wanted to kill me.
Absolutely everywhere,
but not in a good way.
Yeah.
Very, very unpredictable in the way in which it drove.
Very unpredictable.
Killed in a good way.
Well, you know how some cars like,
they encourage you to drive
really fast.
And then you're like,
well, because they're so capable,
so they encourage you to go fast.
And at that point,
then they could kill you.
Whereas that car was just wanting to kill you
from the second you pulled out the car park,
even at normal speeds.
The steering was the worst.
It was you would be driving down a,
what looked like a straight,
smooth road.
And the way the road cambered,
the steering would literally dart across.
Because there's no power steering.
And not in a,
not in a progressive like,
oh, it's pulling.
Not like you've got an alignment issue,
where it's like, oh, I'm pulling that way.
It would literally go like this.
Like it would, it would put,
you have to have to,
you could never drive that car
with one hand on the wheel.
Because I only drove,
I drove Steph's one on a runway.
Yes.
That was the only time.
Oh, okay.
One of dead flat runway on perfect tarmac.
Yeah, fine.
Yeah.
Right.
Number two car, Ped.
We're staying in Italy.
Oh, Ferrari.
No, no, no.
Fix it again, Tony.
Sorry.
Fix it again, Tony.
I've never heard that.
No, lots of trouble usually seriously.
That's lotus.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I've gone for a Fiat.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
Now there were two variants of this.
And the one that was panned
and was really shit.
Had 16 valves.
This is the 20 valve.
But I've gone for the 20 valve.
Oh my God.
I almost went for that car.
No way.
That is a cool thing.
Fiat Coupe.
Mate, I almost honestly went for that car.
I've always liked these things.
And they sound great, the 20 valves.
Because it's a five cylinder.
Yeah, basically.
I mean, and this is the 20 valve turbo.
It's the limited edition one.
91,000 miles.
99T manual.
And it's 16 grand.
Wow, they're still, that's quite punchy.
Well, that's the most expensive one
on sale on this online car.
Auction, Google search engine thing.
These are, as far as I'm concerned,
the cars we picked, because if you had that outside,
I'd be like, what have you bought that?
No, no, I wouldn't.
I'd be like, why have you bought that?
Pile of shit.
Can I have a driver?
Just how bad is it?
No, I've never driven one.
I know, I mean, when they came out, so 99,
I was teaching, I worked for Ericsson at the time,
at their training centre in Hazelmere.
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes.
And one of the students that came in,
he literally just bought a black one, right?
And it was a mint, but it cost,
I think it was like 36 grand or something.
That's a lot.
And by the end of the week long course,
it was worth about 31.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, mega, mega things.
I mean, I don't know.
I mean, that's quite an old car now, isn't it?
It's like, you know.
I'm surprised it still exists, because the 27 years old.
What are the feats of that age still exist?
Not many.
Who knows in your Puntos and stuff?
They're all rusted out and disappeared, haven't they?
Yeah, God no.
I've seen a few on the roads recently as well, so they...
I don't know whether that,
so you know the issue with the whole Fiat rusting,
why that came about?
Cheap steel from the cheap steel.
Cheap steel, because to pay off, pay off debts,
the Italian government were basically
giving a bunch of cheap steel,
and they gave it to fucking Fiat to build cars with.
They probably...
Oh, there's probably more to the truth than that as well.
It's probably the fact that they didn't put any,
like, protection or galvanisation.
They didn't do anything.
They barely put paint on it.
Let's face it.
As the steel's probably bad.
Every car was a Friday afternoon car.
By the time it got to the end of the production line,
it was rusting.
But yeah, no, I just think that is a really...
It's got really calipers.
I like that.
There's 20 valve had thinner spoke wheels,
and just always looked a bit nicer.
The 16-valve had big fat wheels and was a bit underpowered.
I don't know how much power it's got, actually.
Probably...
What were they?
I'm going to guess.
I'm going to guess it's about 220.
Oh, would it be that much?
205, maybe.
We don't think we've got...
Oh, we haven't got into it.
Oh, we only have a few full specs and features.
Oh, here we go.
Spec performance.
220.
220?
Oh, look at that.
Oh, I've got it right.
And it's a five-pot as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, of course.
Now, Joe, don't tell me you've got another Italian car.
No, I haven't.
No.
But my car, my second car begins with an A.
An Audi?
Abarth.
Nope.
It wouldn't be an Abarth.
That Audi...
It's actually one of Ped's favorite brands.
I mean, he literally smags himself over it.
Oops, can I say that?
Oh, Friaria Malfi.
No.
It's an Aston Martin.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, don't tell me you've got the same one I've got.
An Aston Martin Vantage.
Which one?
Hang on.
Who thinks they're bad?
One second.
What?
No, but they are a bit crap.
How old?
No, no, no.
No, one second.
But they are a bit crap.
And I'm going to get attacked in the comments here.
That's one of the most beautiful cars made in the last decade.
Also, I thought they were always a good sports car, no?
If you buy a 2015 one or a G8, you're in trouble.
Has it got a sports shift gearbox?
If it was a good car, they wouldn't be 25 grand used.
Can we have a look, please?
Yes.
So you're going to love the spec on this one as well.
Oh, yeah.
Of course, that's beautiful.
No, the thing is that the interior is pants.
It's got a Volvo sat-nav.
Terrible driving position, very unreliable, not very fast.
Sound good.
They are crap, but they're cool.
They're beautiful.
And they're beautiful.
Oh, I mean, it's much better looking than the current one.
That's about £450,000 before you put wheels on it.
Sorry, Aston Martin, if you can hear me over there.
No, and I know I'm going to offend a few people.
I've got one.
And don't get me wrong, out of all the cars I've chosen,
this is one that I would actually put my own money into.
This is 25 grand.
It's a good value for money.
25 grand, 68,000 miles.
I mean, it's barely done any miles.
4.3, not 4.7.
The reason it hasn't done many miles is because it spent 9...
Oh, yeah, it's a 4.3.
That's what I'm saying.
It's not, yeah, it's not the 4.7.
Yeah, it's not fast, but it still makes a great sound.
It's got all these qualities.
But as an overall package, it's a bit crap.
Oh, that's a good question.
You don't want to sport that.
It's a manual.
I think, yeah, it's a manual.
Oh, yeah, because the sports shift, Aston sports shift.
Yeah, I can't load up because I'm not on the internet.
But that's, I know it's a controversial one, this one,
but it is a bit shit and I'd love to have one.
So in my opinion...
Is it a coupe or a roadster?
It's a coupe.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, actually, I should have gone roadster
because that would have been really crap.
And you would have loved that.
Oh, mate.
Oh, yeah.
The roadster seating position.
I mean, Ped would actually be looking at...
Oh, Ped would be looking over the windscreen
rather than under it.
Just because you're abnormally big.
That's what Lou said.
You know, when you get Facebook memories,
I got one this, I think it must have been like
eight or nine years ago, I had a V12 Vantage S roadster.
Yes, they've held their money.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, that's a completely different kettle of fish.
That is a special car.
Yeah, but I mean, the interior is terrible.
Because I did think about getting one, actually,
when I bought my box.
I think the problem is you have to buy a 25 grand one
because if you buy a 2014, same interior, same...
You might as well buy the cheaper one.
And have the exact same experience.
I mean, if you turned up to a pub or even where we are here,
in that, it'd be classy.
If that was in the car park, I'd look at it.
They've aged beautifully.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Very beautifully.
I think that's the best looking Aston Martin has been built.
Yeah, I would agree.
And even when it was out,
but I think it was prettier than the van question
or the other more expensive clients.
You get your emotion control unit.
Oh, yes.
Really small side note before we move on to my next one,
but the red lights in the back are very important.
Yes.
Previous or more like the S and stuff had clear lights.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I know people updated the earlier cars to have this,
but I always thought they looked terrible.
I think you could get it as an option like Porsche.
Yeah, red lights for me.
Perfect.
Okay, Pat.
Right, this one calls a conversation.
Oh, no.
So this got an EVO rating of two.
Oh.
And it was from £55,000.
And this article was from 2005.
So £55,000 in 2005.
What was it begin with?
What's the manufacturing?
I'll give you the top line.
Mr Bishi FQ400 or something.
It says it's huge.
It's got four-wheel drive, but what's the point?
It's huge.
It's got 2005.
Is it a San Yong Charando?
No, you're in the right ballpark though.
All right.
Type of vehicle.
Type of vehicle.
It is a Mercedes R-Class.
Oh, what?
An R-Class.
An R-Class.
So back in the day, Mercedes made an MPV that I saw.
And this is, the reason I like this so much is because I went to the Hell's Core.
Was it the British Motor Show at Hell's Core?
And I went there with my dad.
That ran to about 2005 or 2006.
Yeah.
And he was in the motor industry.
And so we got tickets and we went.
And as a kid at 10 years old, I saw this on the stand and my dad
were a family of four.
So my dad got a brochure and he was never going to buy one, could never afford one.
But it was the idea of going on the stand, saw the car, got the brochure, like came home,
you know.
And back in the day, they didn't scrimp on brochures.
It was like a book.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so like, I always had this soft spot for this car.
And then they made an R63, an R500.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, yes.
And they do a, they're seven-seaters, I think most of them.
They are so ugly.
I mean, I think no, hang on, hang on.
I think they look, I like the way they look.
Is that before they did V-Class, which is, let's face it, just a transit with some seats in it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So this is, yeah, it could equally stand for, it said it's a, they had a concept car in 2002
and it was a Grand Sports Tourer.
And yeah, it got panned.
Everybody said it was terrible.
It was super heavy.
I don't really think they sold very many of them.
But when I see one now, and when I was actually, when I went to Dubai for work at one point,
I went and saw Rellini and downstairs in the dealership he works at at the time,
they had an R63, like a mint one.
Of course they did.
And it was like a dream come true for me to see an R63 because most of them are 350 diesels
or 400 or 500 or whatever.
But yeah, R-Class Mercedes, I would love to own one of these.
I say it's ugly, but it's not as ugly as their current, anything in their current line,
but it is horrific.
Yeah.
But I can see the appeal there, but it would have to be the AMG model just because it would make all the noise.
I'd love an R-Class, but they were panned.
Everybody said they were terrible at the time and there's no way they're any better now.
Right.
Ped onto your last one.
Sorry, I'm moving this along because we've got to be conscious of the time.
Well, my last one, right?
It depends on who you are as to whether you think they're shit or not.
Well, you're asking me, Andrew.
Is he a vote convertible?
I know.
No, it's not.
It's something he's dreaded.
It's a loud windshield for all my stickers.
But this is a massive guilty pleasure of mine.
I've always liked them and I've always thought one day I'd quite like to have one.
What does it begin with?
Give us some clues.
It's got big furry feet and it lives in the snow.
Big furry feet.
Oh, it's a Yeti.
It's a Skoda Yeti.
Oh, they're cool.
Yeah.
Who ever said they were bad?
Yeah, who said the Yeti's bad?
I thought they were always reviewed really well.
Yeah, that's what my problem is.
That's what I said.
I'm bending the rules a bit because some people think they're shit, but they're not really.
Yeah, basically, because I just wanted to talk about Skoda Yeti.
And I found this one.
I went, this is just the coolest car ever.
I like those.
Yeti's a cool.
I saw a YouTube video once where this guy had a remote control helicopter or something.
Yeah, that was me.
I landed it on the roof.
It was wicked.
He was just copying another YouTube channel.
That was the intro seven minutes long.
It was the same car Top Gear landed the helicopter on.
Oh, yes.
So this one is a 1.8 TSI four-wheel drive, which is the one to go for apparently,
according to James Dimmock.
50,000 miles on the clock and it's 14 grand.
And it's a Laurel.
14 grand.
Clem on one.
It's a really, really nice one.
But they're very collectible.
Not collectible, but they're sort of after cars.
Yeah, I think they're really good space wise and stuff.
They're very clever.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brilliant.
I mean, yeah.
But what I'd really love to do with one of them is to get one and then just to really do it up.
So drop, put it on coilovers with some nice wheels on it.
Do you want to ruin it?
Yeah, basically.
Or put rally spec with some mud flaps on it and stuff and some spot lamps and ruin it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I don't know.
I mean, it's not, I know I'll never buy one because deep down they are a bit crap.
We can't get them in crayons.
But there is just something about as soon as you said crap car tellers went yeti.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'd say, well, I feel less guilty about my vantage now because there are many things
that are crap about that vantage where there's nothing crap about that.
But it's ped.
We've got to let him off one guy.
He's got two of them.
My first two are amazing.
Yeah.
They're first two are really good.
Yeah.
Right.
Go on, Jay.
So my third and final one.
Oh, what kind of BMW have you chosen, Joe?
I've seen it.
You can't.
This is also going to be on a similar.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, no, I didn't.
I'm not going to choose a BMW in a crap car challenge.
No?
Yeah.
Two series sports touring horrible.
I couldn't possibly say BMWs are bad.
Remember, they pay me a fortune.
That was the comment I got on my channel.
Did you?
What about me or about you?
About you.
Oh, God.
Yeah.
Right, go on.
People ignore the negative stuff I say about BMWs.
Anyway, oh, it's just disappeared.
Oh, no.
Oh, something went wrong.
Well, anyway, it was the...
Oh, this is really difficult.
It was...
That's right.
I can put a picture up for the audience.
It was the Megane Trophy RS.
The one with the carbon fiber wheels.
Oh, yeah.
They were like super cool.
Super cool.
Were they not good to drive?
Very good to drive.
And a bit of a one-trick pony.
Right.
So, but the challenge was because...
I know, I know, I know.
Didn't they get like absolutely rave reviews
because it was awesome on track?
Yes.
Yeah.
So it was really good then.
But the crap thing about it is...
How much they cost?
I hope James isn't listening.
It's a Renault.
I've owned a Renault for a degree.
Are they?
Really?
No.
Listen, I've owned Renaults.
I owned a Renault Megane many years ago.
I wish I never bought it.
End up in flames and die.
Renault 19, 1.4 energy once.
My parents, when I was growing up, had a...
Not 21.
Yeah, anyway.
No, 16.
They had a Renault 16.
Look, that one up.
That's an old car.
That's when I was very young.
But I mean, it was just typical Renault.
It had so many electrical problems.
It was an absolute...
Yeah, by hanging on, you're getting away from the fact
that you've just picked a car here that's had rave reviews.
But you're saying it's bad because it's a Renault.
I'm sure that it's not very reliable.
Why?
Because it's a Renault.
He doesn't have any like real-world testing on this.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
I'm trying to find an excuse to have that as my crap car.
I'm about to reveal something here.
You were looking at buying one of those at one point.
I was.
Not that one, because that was...
But the normal, like 300 RS, whatever it was called.
There's so many different, there's a 282, 293, 300.
But this is the RS 300 Trophy R without the carbon wheels.
This particular one is 38 grand.
At the moment, they are declining.
That's too much money.
But they were 50, I think, new and 70 with carbon wheels or something.
Yeah, and there's ceramic brakes and stuff as well.
I'm sure it is unbelievably good value
if you're looking at a track car
or something that you can use on the road and on the track.
But there's just something crap about it.
It comes as red wheels, it has...
I mean, Ped would love the red stripes.
Can you show me a picture?
Ped would love the red stripes on the side of it.
I want to know that's what I thought, yeah.
The stripes are too much and the wheels are too much.
Yeah, so there's that element of crapness.
But qualifying that just because it's a Renault makes it crap is a little bit unfair.
Okay, your one next.
Let's move, let's cross over that.
My ones maybe aren't that.
Yeah, me and Ped have fallen away a bit.
He's just trying to find a way to grow a friend.
It was when I said we needed three each
and you'd only pick one each that you started to panic.
So this car really objectively shouldn't exist.
And it was only made for CO2 emission reasons.
Oh, Aston Martin's, isn't it?
And to help put wood on the fire to keep that company alive,
which I want to deal with this time later, hasn't worked.
Yeah, the Aston Martin signal.
I love how we got two Aston Martens in this and two Alphons.
Yeah, but the V8 one.
No, of course not, because everybody said that one was amazing.
No, this is the Toyota IQ with a new bumper and a new interior.
50 grand when they came out or something.
There were 30,000 pound more.
Yeah, 30,000 pound.
I think, no, there were 30,000 pound full stop.
And they were like 15 or 20,000 pound more than a Toyota IQ.
I know, but how much is that one you found?
Because I thought they'd have the money.
I'm just looking at how much.
I'm looking at a review from when they came out.
I think they're still...
They are, they're still like 40 grand.
They're still like 40 grand.
Yeah, yeah.
But so at the time they were panned,
but actually now it's like super uber cool to have one.
Isn't that funny?
Yeah, that's my point.
It's a terrible car because if you try to buy a Toyota IQ,
they're like 1,500 quid.
Like you couldn't give them away because they're just small, crappy.
Because they're crap.
What year is that?
Well, are they like 2011 or something?
Isn't it funny?
So that's probably worth more.
Yeah, 2010.
Let me have a look quickly.
It's worth more than a vantage.
It is worth 70, but let's look at a 2011 vantage.
Oh my gosh, from 2011.
And a 1.33 liter VVT engine.
And there's no one liter option.
It gave us 97 brake horsepower and 92 foot pound of torque.
6 speed manual gearbox.
You can get, well, tens of, in fact, hundreds of 2011 V8
advantages, which are the 4.7 V8S for under 40 grand.
So you could buy a real estate rather than a rebad Toyota.
So that's a, because these were what, 70, 80 grand new 90.
I wonder how many, how many signals they made though.
It wouldn't have been many.
Because they were boxed, like an option on a, on a DB nine or a
you could configure it.
Yeah.
You could configure to how funny that has retained its value.
Yeah.
100% better than,
but only because it didn't make any.
No, I know.
Yeah, but it is a cool thing.
But like, if you wanted, if, if you said to me like,
I'm thinking of buying an Aston Martin signal,
I think they could be great.
I'd be like, go buy a Toyota IQ, like a good one for three grand,
drive it for, no, just drive it for a year.
And then afterwards then decide if you want to buy one
because you then realized that actually the experience you're
buying into is not anything to do with the vehicle at all.
But I, I bet that there's a lot of those were bought by people
who wanted it.
Like they've got a super yacht and they wanted it.
Oh, for sure.
Well, they live in a muse in London and that lives in the muse
in the carnage in Oxfordshire.
And then they've actually got a VA, a V12 Vantage, you know.
Yeah, of course.
They are.
It was panned because it was like, well, this is.
I saw one on the Captain Teet once and that's like perfect
hunting ground for a, a, a, a signal.
Yeah, couldn't.
I mean, I run a, we didn't talk about the price of the four C's,
but like they've also not really dropped.
No.
Like they're still 40 grand for like a one you'd want to buy
without moon miles on it.
They're 35 with loads of miles on them.
It'd be interesting to see what they do because the 1M,
the BMW 1M, it was 40 new.
It was 40 foot forever.
And just in the last year and a half, two years,
they've started going up.
So maybe the same will happen with those.
But it's the same, it's the same thing like panned at the times
and nobody bought them.
I think they were selling like a few hundred four C's a year.
That was it.
Yeah.
And so yeah, now there's not many of them.
There are a bit special in the way they looked and the way they
were built.
They probably lost out for a may of huge amounts of money.
Yeah.
Nobody benefits out of these.
Apart from Gary, who bought one and has kept it for the last
10 years.
And now it's worth only five or 10 grand less than you,
basically.
I'm going to finish.
We are going to wrap this up.
And it's pretty much an hour.
Look at that.
We've got a very special guest.
Oh, I'm coming on again.
You're actually getting off the next one.
Yeah.
I mean, off you go.
You could have told me that off the podcast.
Oh, sorry.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
Awkward.
I only hear it's packed because we couldn't find anyone else.
Well, yeah.
That's because the guest was late.
So you just got your challenge.
It was convenient.
He warmed up his seat.
Thanks a lot for watching, guys and girls.
I hope you've really enjoyed this.
Please consider subscribing to our YouTube channel
and following us on Spotify and all the other podcast platforms.
Also leaving us any reviews.
I know that Spotify reviews were over 150 reviews at the moment.
Think 4.8, 4.9 out of 5.
Yeah.
Whatever platform you listen to the podcast on or watch it,
just leave a review, leave a comment, whatever you can.
Always helps us.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And we'll see you at the next one coming in two weeks.
Should we book this again in two weeks time?
Yeah, this is quite nice.
We'll come back again in two weeks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm going to just change my top so that people don't know.
Oh, we're going to cut a bit out, but it's fine.
Yeah, yeah.
We'll stop it here.
Yeah, yeah.
He's out.
He's in out.
About this episode
A lively discussion unfolds as the hosts share their picks for the worst cars they'd happily own, starting with quirky choices like the Alfa Romeo Brera and Fiat Coupe. The conversation dives into the unique characteristics and flaws of each vehicle, including the Aston Martin V8 Vantage and the Skoda Yeti. They also touch on the automotive industry's recent developments, including the impact of government policies on electric vehicles and the rising costs of platforms like AutoTrader. The episode is filled with humor, nostalgia, and a few surprising opinions on cars that many might consider undesirable.
Original notes
Don't forget to send us your questions or subject for future episodes.
Subscribe/Follow, give us a rating and give us a follow on Instagram for all the latest Podcast news - https://www.instagram.com/drivetorque...
Cheers and see you at the next one 👊
Drive Torque Podcast
Joe Achilles and Peter Greaves (Petrol Ped)
0:00
61:16