The MuscleCar Place Nov 7, 2025

TMCP #626: Ask Rick – Preview for the Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals 2025, “The Pebble Beach of Muscle Car Shows”

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Car

Chevrolet Corvette

The Chevrolet Corvette is a fast and stylish sports car that many people love. It's famous for being powerful and has a long history in America, making it a popular topic at car shows.

Car

Oldsmobile W41

The Oldsmobile W41 is a special version of a car made by Oldsmobile, known for being fast and powerful. It was designed to appeal to car enthusiasts who love muscle cars.

Concept

vintage car certification

Vintage car certification is a way to prove that a classic car is genuine and in good condition. It involves checking many parts of the car to make sure everything is original and works well.

Company

National Parts Depot

National Parts Depot is a company that sells parts for old American muscle cars. They help people find the right pieces to fix up their cars.

Car

Chevrolet Chevelle

The Chevelle is a classic car made by Chevrolet, popular in the 1960s and 70s. It's known for being a muscle car, which means it was designed for speed and performance.

Concept

SEMA

SEMA is a big car show in Las Vegas where people display custom cars and aftermarket parts. It's a place for car lovers to see the latest trends and products in the automotive world.

Concept

barn finds

A barn find is a classic car that someone finds in an old barn, usually covered in dust and forgotten. These cars can be special because they are often rare and have interesting histories.

Concept

Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals

It's a big car show where people display and talk about classic muscle cars and Corvettes. You can see rare cars and meet other car lovers.

Car

1937 Ford Racer

This is a race car made by Ford in 1937. It's known for being fast and stylish, especially for its time.

Car

Intermeccanica Italia

This is a sports car made by a company called Intermeccanica. It has a cool design and combines styles from Italy and America.

Car

Pontiac Torino

The Pontiac Torino is a mid-sized car that was made in the late 1960s and 1970s. It was known for its good looks and strong engines, which made it a favorite among people who liked fast cars.

Part

Ford 302

The Ford 302 is a type of engine made by Ford. It's a V8 engine, which means it has eight cylinders arranged in a V shape, and it's known for being powerful and used in many cars.

Term

four-speed top loader

A four-speed top loader is a manual transmission that lets you change gears in a car. It has four different speeds to choose from, which helps the car go faster or slower.

Part

Ford 9-inch rear end

The Ford 9-inch rear end is a strong part of a car's drivetrain that helps transfer power from the engine to the wheels. It's known for being tough and is often used in performance cars.

Car

Pontiac GTO

The Pontiac GTO is a classic car that many people think of when they hear 'muscle car.' It was one of the first cars to be designed for speed and power, making it very popular in the 1960s.

Term

NOS

NOS means new parts that were made a long time ago but never used. Car enthusiasts like to use these parts to keep their cars as original as possible.

Concept

documenting and certifying a car

Documenting and certifying a car means proving that it is real and in good condition. This can help increase its value, especially for collectors.

Concept

vintage certification

Vintage certification means getting a classic car checked to prove it's real and in good shape. This is important for collectors who want to know their car is authentic and well cared for.

Term

Bloomington Gold

Bloomington Gold is a special award for Corvettes that checks if they are original and in good condition. It’s a big deal for Corvette collectors.

Term

MCRS Top Flight

MCRS Top Flight is a special award for muscle cars and Corvettes that shows they are original and in great shape. Collectors value this certification highly.

Car

Chevrolet Z28

The Chevrolet Z28 is a special version of the Camaro sports car that was made in 1981. It's known for being fast and sporty, and this particular one has very low mileage, making it almost like new.

Car

Ford Galaxy

The Ford Galaxy is a big car that was made by Ford a long time ago. It's known for being comfortable and having a lot of space inside, making it great for families.

Car

Ford Galaxie 500 XL

The Ford Galaxie 500 XL is a big car from 1964 that was known for being comfortable and having strong engines. It's a classic car that many people admire today.

Part

brake cylinders

Brake cylinders help your car stop by using fluid pressure to push the brake pads against the wheels. Sometimes, older ones need to be fixed to work properly again.

Concept

Pebble Beach of Muscle Cars

This term refers to a special event or place where really nice muscle cars are displayed, just like Pebble Beach is famous for showing off fancy classic cars.

Term

An overhead cam engine has its camshaft located above the engine's cylinders, which helps the engine run better and more efficiently. It allows for better airflow and can make the engine more powerful.

Car

Pontiac Banshee

The Pontiac Banshee was a car that Pontiac designed to look sporty and fast, similar to the Corvette. However, it was just a concept and wasn't made for sale to the public.

Car

The Muscle Car Place, online podcast, episode number 626.

This week, we're still at SEMA 2025 as you hear this, but that doesn't mean we're just

kicking back this week.

Rich Schmidt is here to give you a preview of the 2025 McCacken Show.

That's the Muscle Car in Corvette Nationals.

Come out up in Chicago in just a few weeks.

This has become the Monterey, or the Pible Beach if you will, for muscle cars.

Everything is by invite only.

Everything is about seeing unique and curated stuff you may never see again.

Like this year, Oldsmobile W41 cars get their own section, even.

There's even something more.

A top of the top, best of the best, toughest of the toughest vintage car certification

program that is now the most prestigious thing out there.

5,000 points are available, and this is what it takes to get it.

It's right down to it has to be not a NOS service replacement oil filter.

It has to be the factory, the assembly oil filter.

And if you don't have that, you've got to come up with it.

This is the Muscle Car Place online podcast, brought to you by National Parts Depot.

This is the weekly show dedicated to people worldwide who love American muscle cars.

If you're buying, selling, restoring, even racing them, this is the place for you.

Now, here's your host, Rob Kibbey.

Yes, indeed I am Rob Kibbey, and welcome to the Muscle Car Place podcast.

Well, here we are now in November Thanksgiving month here.

And yes, if you're hearing this today, the show releases.

We're still at SEMA 2025 right now.

But Rich Schmidt is here to help us get a preview and run down for the next big thing

before the year is over.

And that's the McCacken show in Chicago.

It's called the Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals.

We're also going to take a look at some cars for sale

that McCacken might want to consider in the future.

That'll be in our car review section with Rick.

More on all that in a second.

So the whole gang is in Vegas right now.

And I mean the whole gang.

The whole gang that put together my Chevelle for its debut at SEMA

12 years ago at the SEMA 2013 show.

I'll never forget it.

Well, we're all just going to be there again.

And it just kind of worked out.

So I'll be there.

Jeff Alson will be there.

Zip Simons will be there.

Danny Giustino will be there.

Kirk Hansen will be there.

Bernie McPartland will be there.

The only one short is my high school buddy Aaron.

Aaron Jaden is the one, if you don't recall,

that he and I were running a lot of Chevelle parts home

from Jeff Alson's shop in New Mexico to Iowa

and somewhere across Colorado in the middle of the night.

We hit a bunch of free range cattle and killed his truck.

And three cows.

That happened.

So it's going to be quite the reunion.

We got a VRBO this time and everybody,

but Jeff is staying there.

But not all on the same night.

It's got a classic, I guess, but it should be really fun.

Again, we're at SEMA right now.

So while we are talking about the McCacken show this week,

next week we will be back maybe for a few rounds

of our content from the SEMA 2025 show.

It's just you never know how these shows go.

We have several interviews pre-booked like we always do.

It typically spills into more and more

when new fun opportunities pop up.

You know, if we just have to put up 50 shows

between now and Thanksgiving, that's what it takes.

What?

Did I just hear our producer burning pass out?

I thought I heard a thud there.

Oh, well, anyway, we'll be back from SEMA.

What all that means is I am recording this very show you

here right now in advance of even going to SEMA

in the first place.

So this is kind of a special edition muscle car place.

Halloween was a couple of days ago as I record this.

We saw it back to the future in the theater.

Worst doing, totally awesome.

None of my kids did any trick or treating this year.

We're past those days.

And I would have told you last year was the last year.

It wasn't.

It was two years ago.

Two years we have not had trick or treaters.

So this year we left Dallas in charge of our house

to give out candy with all his friends.

And when we got home from the movie,

there was this huge party raging away in our house.

And Dallas wasn't even here.

He went to jumpstart somebody's car.

And it was a nice innocent no booze slash drugs party.

Just good kids.

But it was just interesting to come home to my own house

and find a bunch of people like, who are all you people?

Anyway, here we are.

We'll just get to Rick's interview basically right away.

What we're going to talk about here is the McCacken show.

So McCacken show, I would guess.

I don't know if I asked him this,

but I think it's his favorite show of the year.

And it's become the top of it all when it comes to really pedigree

for classic muscle cars and uniqueness.

You don't have to just be into original stuff to make this work.

They do barn finds and one of ones and curated things.

There is really something for everybody here,

but for Rick, he's definitely into that extensive,

almost brutal level of vintage car certification.

He'll tell you all about it in the show,

but it's how you curate basically a very original collection,

like original right off the assembly line, not tongue in cheek,

but off the assembly line is as close as you want to be.

That's what they do there.

You may want to head to Chicago to see this.

That particular day, November 22nd, I am booked,

but our man Scotty staff will be there for sure.

Mike in hand.

I have a few details from their email here

that I just want to kind of read to you.

So here's what it's titled,

Expect the Unexpected at the Upcoming Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals.

Seems hard to believe that it's just a few weeks away.

I'm going to skip to the good stuff here.

One thing I take great pride in,

this is the editor of the newsletter talking here,

is presenting a fresh news show and story every year.

We host some of our displays,

like our annual barn finds and hidden gems,

vintage certification,

triple diamond certification,

and the pinnacle certification.

Even those host different cars.

Our anniversary invitational displays change with the year.

So we have the class of 1965 and class of 1970

to celebrate this year.

And we have so many totally new invitations this year.

So let's dive into yet another aspect

of what we have in store for you for 2025.

We often say to expect the unexpected,

and this statement is certainly true this year.

You can see an example at the top of this email,

my kind of hybrid, but that was just the beginning.

We have told you about the amazing SHO Racing

and Rod Hall display we will host.

Then we will have Hollywood movie producer Peter Siegel

joining us with one of the real Tommy Boy movie cars,

and he's going to share stories about making the movie.

We have for the kids, big and old,

the Muppet Car from that movie,

thanks to Studebaker National Museum,

the David Pearson 1937 Ford Racer,

along with Eddie and Ricky Pearson,

who will share stories of David Pearson's story career,

and you will find a Batmobile greeting you in the lobby,

and that is literally just a sampling.

When it comes to cars,

have you ever seen an Intermeccanica Italia?

In fact, have you ever even heard of one?

Allow the owner, Greg Jones, to explain.

This 1969 Intermeccanica Italia,

which will be at the show, kind of looks like a Ferrari,

is just one of 430 convertibles built from 67 to 73,

and one of who knows how many that are left.

It's a fabulous blend of sleek Italian design

and an all-American powertrain from Ford,

and this Italian design was actually penned

by famed GM and Corvette designer, Bob Cumberford.

These Italians have hand-formed bodies

made in the factory in Torino, Italy,

yet all were powered by V8s from the USA,

sent over to Italy to be installed.

This one is powered by its original drivetrain, a Ford 302,

four-speed top loader for transmission,

and a Ford 9-inch rear end with 54,000 miles on the clock.

So then they go on and they talk about a few more things.

There's an old W41 collection and all that,

but that 69 Intermeccanica Italia, if you look at it,

you'd say that's the GTO from Ferris Bueller.

It's not. It's a unique car, but for movie cars,

yeah, an original Tommy Boy car, that's cool,

but with the producer and director of the movie,

that's even cooler.

So that's what's all coming up here.

I think you're going to really enjoy it.

And with that, since this is a special edition of the show,

let's go ahead and get right to the interview.

Up next is Mr. Rick Schmidt on the National Parts Depot hotline

to talk about all things Meccan 2025. Enjoy.

Up next on the National Parts Depot hotline

is Mr. Rick Schmidt from NPD.

Rick, happy Thanksgiving.

How was that?

Yes, happy Thanksgiving, happy great weather,

happy no more summer.

I'm in a good mood.

Happy car driving season.

Yeah, it depends where you are.

I've seen all these things from Florida.

Business is flowing down at our Michigan store

because everybody's winterizing their car

and starting to pack them away.

We record these quite early, as people know,

and we're still two-thirds the way through October right now,

but I had to go move some cars around

and I keep some cars outside.

They're all covered in frost this morning.

Every one of them. Yep, it's over.

But as people hear this...

It's just beginning down here.

Yeah, our producer Bernie's in Dallas, Texas,

and I mean, he's thrilled.

Well, I know that Thanksgiving may not be Halloween in your house.

I know that you have a high love of Halloween,

and your wife does especially,

but when it comes to Thanksgiving,

there are discussions to be had.

So if you can only pick one for the entree,

and you can only pick one, turkey, ham, or beef.

I got to go with turkey.

Otherwise, how am I going to have turkey sandwiches

for the next several days?

There you go.

And, you know, I eat beef in some fashion all year round.

No problem, get a spiral ham or whatever.

Thanksgiving is the only excuse to do a good turkey.

We have a pretty good process to make sure that the turkey's not

dry, that it's good and juicy and flavorful,

and I enjoy turkey.

Thanksgiving is the only time of year that I typically get it,

unless it's just sandwich slices from the supermarket deli.

Same, we make exactly one turkey a year.

It is on Thanksgiving.

We get a lot of turkey deli meat, just like you said.

Yeah, with the cranberry sauce and a little bit of mashed potatoes

loaded in on that fork bite.

That's what I'm all about.

Okay, here's the other big one.

This is a big deal.

This tells a lot about a man.

Is the gravy yellow or brown?

So basically chicken gravy or beef gravy.

You go to KFC or you go to my grocery store.

There's two gravies you can have.

You want it yellow or you want it brown?

And they are different.

I think yellow.

And then I've got to have all the bird organs in there too.

You know, that's in the middle of the...

Ghiblets and gizzards and whatever you call it.

Oh, gross.

I've got to have plenty of chunks in my gravy.

Don't give me some...

It's like peanut butter.

Don't give me any smooth peanut butter, right?

Definitely.

And then finally, pumpkin pie or any other pie?

You can't say, no, I want cake or something.

You got to choose a pie.

Pumpkin pie or any other pie?

I love pie and I love pumpkin pie.

I like pecan pie and I like any fruit pie you throw in front of me.

My biggest thing isn't what kind of pie.

It's just I just eat a little sliver.

I don't like to have a huge giant slice of pie.

I do my sweets kind of like somebody would do shots at a bar.

Just one shot of that and, oh, I want you to try that over there.

Okay, but just one shot.

Our oldest daughter is an awesome pie maker.

I don't know why.

She doesn't even really eat it.

She just likes to make it.

There's always a pumpkin pie.

And for me, I don't mind pumpkin pie,

but I want it to be equal whipped cream to pumpkin.

I'd probably go overboard on that.

My favorite is definitely pecan, hands down.

She kind of makes this like chocolate mousse pie that is just outstanding.

I love all those, but happy things to be.

And the pecan pie is too.

There's a big, it's very important, the ratio between the crust, the filling and the pecans.

If there's way too much filling in there, that kind of ruins the pie for me.

Yeah.

Then again, if there's too, you gotta get that ratio just right.

So sometimes the best pecan pie is not like two or three inches for your thick.

Oh, totally.

Yeah, I agree.

Because then you've kind of gone overboard with the ratios.

One of my favorites was like at this lunch line that I used to go to as a kid.

And you get this like super cheapo piece of pecan pie that was like a half inch thick.

And I loved it.

So good.

Just delicious.

But here we are in November.

So Thanksgiving is coming as this show airs.

This will be the final day of SEMA 2025.

This will air on Friday, November 7th, I think.

And the coming weeks here will have plenty of content from SEMA 2025, the event that was.

But McCacken is coming up.

Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals.

Now you've spoken very highly of that event.

I think NPD is a sponsor.

Correct me if I'm wrong there.

But are you taking anything this year?

We may have discussed this last time,

but I'm not really sure what you said you would take specifically.

To McCacken?

Yeah.

Well, one of my two wizards who helped take care of the collection.

There's a term for conservators.

That's the fancy term for people who do all of them.

Because when you have a large collection, just the mechanic isn't going to do.

Or just a restoration body and paint or trim guy isn't going to do.

It's a very, very rare read of a person who can do a little bit of everything and do it very well.

And that's what I'm very fortunate to have between Gene and Larry.

He's a full set of skills.

Not just one guy who only does the driveline stuff.

And another guy who's more into the detail and refinishing of things.

These guys can do it all themselves.

Anyways, getting back to it, Gene's going to be telling it up.

I'm probably going to fly in just because of my schedule and everything else.

But the show's right next to the Chicago airport.

Fly in, get an Uber in five minutes.

Later, you're walking them through the show.

Sweet.

We're taking, we have for, I think this is our fifth year running,

doing their vintage certification program,

which is a class within these shows that you have to sign up and pay a pretty hefty fee to do.

What it really is, is a very deep dive by a judging team where they spend three or four hours

picking through every detail on your unrestored survivor.

Judging it both for condition and originality.

And when I'm talking originality, it's right down to it has to be not a

NOS service replacement oil filter.

It has to be the factory, the assembly line oil filter.

And if you don't have that, you got to come up with it and do it in such a way that they're

convinced that that could well be the original oil filter that's still on the car.

It is very, very dedicated towards documenting and certifying a car that it is,

as it rolled off the assembly line.

Listeners might think, well, that's just way too picky and it's ridiculous and absurd.

Well, you don't really go into it with the expectation that you're going to score a perfect

score with them.

And I can't remember how many points in total it adds up to close to 5,000 points.

Think about that is the aggregate of what they do.

But what it does do is it really, it's well worth it for what you pay to get this level

of judging.

And these are very experienced, very sharp judges.

It's not where you get into this class.

And all of a sudden a clown car pulls up and a bunch of clowns bounce out and start judging

your car.

These guys are beyond experts.

They talk to you the entire way along the way.

If there's any discussion about, is this really supposed to?

They will discuss it with you and they'll keep their mind open if you've got an

explanation that Trump's theirs.

It is a class for low-mile and restored survivors, which is pretty much the meat and

potatoes of what my collection is.

So it's a match made in heaven.

Every car that's gone through the vintage certification route,

it's kind of like Bloomington Gold or MCRS Top Flight.

Only this is much more prestigious because it's a much more difficult regimen.

The standards are even yet higher and it's standards of originality to the nth degree.

My 1981 Z28, it's a Canadian car, has 180 original kilometers on it.

So it's basically a brand new Z28.

That car came as close to perfect scoring and vintage certification four years ago,

as any other vehicle that's ever been in the class in the history of the show.

It just about rung the bell on perfect with that car and it still holds the record mile

wide margin for McCacken.

I don't know if I've got anything else that's going to be because that car just happened to

be stored right, never touched, it just had all the right.

This year we're taking up a 1964 Ford Galaxy 500 XL, two-door hard top,

black with red.

The XL has that deluxe bucket seat, fancy interior with all the brush tool with them.

It's a 394 speed, so we consider it a quote-unquote muscle car because

after all this McCacken, it's got 13 original miles on it.

And it's never been titled and it's never been registered.

Still sitting on the original tires.

Because you can't restore anything because that'll get you docked points.

So we have been meticulously cleaning and detailing and giving it as presentable,

as new as possible.

And we have a couple of leaking brake cylinders, so you can't just swap out for new brake

cylinders.

You have to rebuild the original brake cylinders for the vacuum.

So that has been getting prepared and that's what's going up to McCacken and we'll see how

it does now.

But it's a lot older than my Z28 and for quite a long time in Nebraska,

it lived in a retired cement block school bus barn.

So it has a little bit of patina and surface corrosion on bare metal fasteners and things

on the undercarriage and everything.

And that test is what it is.

You can't reinvent the wheel, so I don't think it's going to score as high as my Z28 did

or that newer cars in the class might.

This is a pretty early car for that class.

My virtue of the miles and the fact that this car has never had anything changed

or touched on it when we bought it, we did hold on to the original assembly line oil

filter for all those other things.

It will still do damn well.

So you can't honey up like any corrosion under there.

That would be a bad thing.

Or would it?

Let me put it this way.

You can knock the top off of it.

You better not go at it with any of your power tools.

Yeah, I mean.

Get in and get out and make it look nicer, but don't make it look like you were working on it.

Or that you've ground things down and then tried to repatina it up or something.

You know, you've got to be very careful that whatever you've done,

it doesn't look like you've been fiddling with it because these guys are forensic scientists

to the degree.

They'll know where you've been trying to not just clean, but restore.

Crossing over that line is a no-no.

The cars must be left original.

Okay. Well, not to ruin it, but I do have a somewhat survivor car in the Rick's Car Review

section.

It would fail this entirely based on how you've described it.

But I'm curious to see what you'll think about it.

Looking through the stuff, though, I don't know if they've done this in the past.

I assume they have, but it's starting to go the route of like the place to be.

So like Derek from ViceGrid Garage will be there.

Dennis Collins will be there.

You know, some automotive names, lebs.

Courtney Hanson will be there.

I'm not sure if that's, she's kind of the modern day.

Oh, who is the Miss Hearst Linda?

Linda Vaughn.

Yeah, she's the modern day Linda Vaughn.

This is in a 400,000 square foot space, 600 plus cars.

It's called the Pebble Beach of Muscle Cars.

I pulled up some information about some interesting features there.

So the first is there's a Pontiac overhead cam six invitational.

You now know as much as I know.

So apparently there was a run of overhead cam six Pontiacs

and they want to have a curated section of that.

They have another section.

I'm interested to see it.

Almost the documentation you see, I think it's called a Banshee,

like a Pontiac kind of looks like a Corvette,

but it's a Pontiac with an overhead cam six.

I don't know what all Pontiacs came with that engine,

but I'm interested to see.

And then there's another curated section,

an invite only section for the olds W31s.

Not the 442s with the W30, but the small block W31s.

And that's interesting to me.

And then I think there's something there for Yanko Stinger,

oh wait, Corvairs.

So there's a lot of interesting components in here specifically to me

that I think keeps it fresh.

That's what keeps a show like this so compelling.

And that's why you would call it the Pebble Beach of Muscle Cars shows

is because they don't just have,

there's the Hemmys over here and there's the LSX is over there

and there's the Cobra Jets over there have fun.

They go deep and they pull out all sorts of different classes

and categories of interesting stuff that were very much a part of the muscle car era.

Long story short, you go there and you get to see things that you rarely get to see.

Or at least you get to see multiples,

a whole class of something that you rarely get to see.

That's what I enjoy doing when you've been in this hobby for so long

and you've seen everything there is to be seen.

Sometimes the most interesting areas of the building that you spend the most time

in are the areas of the building where there's stuff

that you just don't get any chances to do a deep dive in.

I'm interested to see how it'll go.

We'll have Scott Stapp from our team there.

He's gone the last two years to get interviews.

I'll see if he can come find you if there's a minute.

It's always things I've never even heard of before.

That's what I'm liking about it.

It's the Pebble Beach of Muscle Cars, it's the opposite of SEMA.

It's not Glamour and Glitz.

It's interesting and it's unique.

They're both cool in their own right, but they're just different.

New topic.

I won't go through the details here,

but a listener had written in from our last show

and you and I have chatted about this offline

about American restoration parts, specifically sheet metal.

They had found one and then you were aware of who it was and where it was made.

Your basic summary to me was yes,

there are places where you can get U.S. made sheet metal.

That's true.

Professor, though, these were not like fenders,

front lids and doors.

This is all four pairs of frame rails and fender aprons stamped flat with contoured.

All true and your point was look, these kind of are what they are

and you carry some of them because they're unique and nichey.

When it comes to the big stuff, NPD just has a standard

and the big things that require the super advanced tooling

with heavy duty steel, those are out of Taiwan.

You said, look, the good news here is some of these American panels

are made from low run stuff and that means they can do little unique pieces.

I actually can't find anywhere else.

So you said that's where you're seeing the value in that.

Do you agree that that's about it?

Do you not see any opportunity for bigger?

I sent you a link to our site where it showed pictures of,

and I'm not going to say the model, I just don't want to give too much

information that points to where we're talking.

But I sent you pictures of right and left hand floor panels next to each other,

the American made and the Taiwan.

All you had to do is look at the pictures and you're like, whoa.

It's obvious.

I think I'll be unpatriotic and buy the Taiwan this time,

both less money and infinitely crisper, not as many wrinkles.

Some of this stuff looks like it's literally beaten into a form with a mallet

instead of a stamp on a press.

It is.

Yes. Sometimes American made just does not mean the best quality.

Sometimes American made is a part that because of how primitive the tooling and the

smaller the presses, the way that these panels are made,

it is more conducive to make it here.

But a lot of the stuff that's being manufactured in Taiwan for us for a reputation

is Taiwan has gotten, which kind of dates back to so many years ago.

They actually go to the factories down there.

They've got the 30, 50 and 75 and 100 ton presses that are the size and the pressures

that were used back in the 60s when these cars were originally.

They've got the serious industrial might for doing crisp, flat, not contorted stampings.

The smaller places in the US don't have the wherewithal to buy or to have installed or to run

presses of that size.

So they're using lighter duty stuff.

They're using different methods of forms and toolings.

And the way that everything comes together is kind of more what a small sheet middle

shop can do, not what a large manufacturing plant can stamp in plant can accomplish.

The stuff that we were looking at was things that I couldn't find at a mass market thing.

And I don't remember what they were.

They're like hit like buckets for a 66 galaxy or something.

There's so much stuff for cars that really don't have any support from Taiwan or from

anywhere just because it's very low volume stuff.

And that's where these types of manufacturers here in the US

really are invaluable because they fill that niche and they have that

low volume production stuff.

But it's a little rough and it's got a lot of wrinkles in it.

And it's going to take a lot, you know, how everybody knows, you know, for it's a fact,

any piece of sheet metal you buy is going to take some work to fit and to massage and to get it

ready for prime and paint.

Everything takes a little bit of work.

Well, he's going to take a lot of work, but it's a whole lot better than starting out with nothing.

Sitting in your garage with a flat piece of sheet metal and going, how am I going to make this?

Okay, I think we handled that well.

Right.

There was no, well, here comes a bomb.

No, that's the, that's just the truth.

And the truth is what you're going to get here.

Okay, let's get to the car segment picks.

So I've sent you two and both of these are a macaque special edition.

Now we've dabbled in this a little bit before, but I was kind of inspired a little bit by

the Pontiac over at Camp Six, but more by the old's W31 thing here.

And I wanted to find models of cars that are cool that anybody would want, but aren't necessarily

the year or the engine or something that somebody would seek out first.

They're not necessarily the big dogs, but I could be wrong.

So your goal here is to say which one of these under $100,000 cars will have a future

category at macaquan.

You can just tell me, geez, Rick, you spent enough time on bringing a trailer or Hemings

anymore.

All these cars change hands so fast anymore, they usually just link to their last listing.

So within five years, they're all going to sell.

Just tell me which one would have the best ROI.

So what do we have for car number one?

Car one, number one.

And then first I'll press that at macaquan, you'll see pretty much a lot of everything.

It's not like it's a building full of specialty classes.

And if you didn't have a car that fit that class, you're locked out.

They've got areas where you can go into an era or a decade or a manufacturer and show your car.

But then there are all our special custom made classes that either you're a fit

or you don't belong in that class.

So anyhow, car number one is a 1970 Chevelle, but it's the basic SS 396.

Yeah.

And it's a coupe and it's a four speed and it looks really, really nice.

First picture, you know, body gaps.

Pretty color.

Everything lines up.

I think this is like, what is the color?

Cherry, black cherry, whatever.

Got the correct polyglass tires on it.

It looks like it's jumping right out of a 1970 magazine ad.

It is a 396 car and it's the 350 horse car.

So it's not even the top 396 car.

So when I was kind of thinking the W31, I was thinking, I wonder what that would be for a Chevelle.

And I think for a lot of people, 1970 was the premier year for Chevelle.

But this is a mid-series Chevelle.

I assume air conditioning was a factory option on this car.

This one doesn't have it, but it's a beautiful restoration.

It's a four speed car.

And just because it's not a 454 or the 375 horse 396,

I've got a 67 396 350 horse four speed Chevelle.

Runs strong.

It's a blast to drive.

A lot of fun.

When you come right down to it, even an LS6 Chevelle would have a hard time beating

a lot of modern grocery getters today from one end of the quarter mile to the other.

So sometimes by myself, I'm perfectly happy to buy a beautifully restored,

really knocked down drag out quality example of a muscle car that doesn't have the top of the line

engine.

It just has the good 350 360 horsepower with a four speeder that just is what it is.

But you had a GTO or an SS or a big block Mustang, it doesn't have to be the drag pack

super co-rejected.

A lot of people spend big money to have the king of the hill,

but if you just want to go out and drive and enjoy and have that muscle car experience,

save that 50 or 70 grand extra that you're going to pay for that halo

and buy a beautiful version of the basic version of that muscle car.

And you'll find out that it's strong, it's quick, it's a blast.

You'll burn rubber in the first two gears easy enough and it suits me just fine.

I never find myself obsessed with, well, if I'm going to buy a GTO,

I need one of those Ram Air 4s, which go for ridiculous money.

Well, if I buy a Cuda, it's got to have a Hemi.

Now, I'd love to have one.

Sure, that'd be great.

I'm more worried about the quality of the car and how it's put together and how well it drives

and whether or not it's a Hemi or if it's just a 440 Magnum.

If one car is a better quality car than the other, I'm more about that

than necessarily getting that Hemi badge on the shaker scoop.

So this car looks beautiful.

It looks like it was restored dynamite.

I like it.

Okay, put a pin on it.

You got to figure out the ROI later.

I got to see them all first.

What do we have for car number two?

You said, which one's most likely to have a hacking class?

Yeah.

Okay.

I could see SS 396 is having their own class someday, but we'll move into the next one.

Yes, sir.

We have for car number two.

A 1976 Trans-Am, the 70 years family owned.

It's the 76 black and gold, 400 engine, automatic.

Now, by 1976, the fun to drive factor is going to be with that Chevelle.

Chevelle's going to be a much stronger running car than this Trans-Am.

Trans-Am a lot.

Handle it.

The reason I chose this one.

Relatively speaking, it'll perform more like a family car.

Well, I was thinking of macaque in classes here.

And when I personally, when I think of Trans-Am's and specifically black and gold Trans-Am's,

I'm thinking of the 70s.

I'm thinking of a macaque in that had all the different variations of the factory

black and gold special editions.

Oh, okay.

This one would qualify for that.

Yeah.

I never think of like a band of Trans-Am and think of 76, but correct me if I'm wrong.

I think this was the first year for this color package.

Maybe it was 75.

I'm not sure.

But it was one of these.

It was.

And I didn't call it a special edition item.

It was the first year where they started with the gold honeycomb wheels,

which you got to imagine was the inspiration.

This car in a magazine ad, and I have been told that it was literally flipping through

a magazine and seeing an advertisement is what Hal Needham and Bert Reynolds spotted

and they kind of looked at each other and go, that's going to be our car, that Trans-Am.

Yeah.

This is what kind of catalyzed all of the black and gold Trans-Am hysteria to come.

It's not a one owner car, but it's a long owned car by the current owner.

The first owner owned it till 98.

I think this guy has had it since 98.

It's not a low mile car.

It's got almost 90,000 miles on it.

Looks like a good, honest car.

It doesn't look like it's been abused or lived in the north and been in the salt or anything

of that nature.

So it's a good, honest car, but it's more of a driver condition car than the Isabel

we were looking at, which was fully concor's done.

Okay.

Do you like this era?

Do you prefer this nose to the 77 or 78?

I like them all for different reasons.

I like them all because there's some people, they're very, very

adamant about it.

I see online some people just hate, hate, hate on the 79 to 81 nose.

I remember when I was a kid and those things came out.

I just thought, oh my gosh, that's just so hot and fresh and that looks great.

Now, if you owned one of the earlier cars, you just looked like you're in an old used

Trans-Am, not the cool brand new one.

So I like them all from the Bullnose and then the 74, 56, 77, 88.

I think Pontiac killed it with each.

And it's not like each design was better than the previous.

Each design was different and great.

Okay.

We'll have to come back to which one gets it to McCacken class.

And at this point, it sounds like which one is the most likely to have a McCacken class

because it sounds like they're both deserving.

Right.

What do we have for car number three?

And you may shoot this down right away.

I'm not sure.

I took a leap.

It's a 72 day tomorrow, so Pantera.

I've always wanted a Pantera in the collection and now I'm just too cheap to buy one because

you've got really, really valuable.

I can still remember when a 20 or 30 grand bought you a really, really nice Pantera.

That ship has sailed.

Would you allow this into McCacken?

Does it have to be American or...?

It's the Muscle Car and Corvette National.

So this is kind of the Ford Corvette.

Yeah.

For those unfamiliar, it's a Ford V8.

I'm brand new from the factory.

And it's sold new through Lincoln, Mercury dealerships.

Was it an Italian car or a Belgian or...?

I don't remember the...

Italian.

The last one was an Italian car company.

Ford gave him the 351 Cleveland and Ford did all the distribution in the US.

Okay.

I don't know enough about these cars, Rick, to know a nice one from a poor one.

I can tell you just from the photos, it looks like a nice original enough car to me.

22,000 miles.

I agree.

Don't remember...

I think this should be a five-speed car.

Mid-engine.

Transactors.

Original five-speed cars.

Pretty color.

A dig to color.

They had the reputation for overheating and their fixes that you could do to improve that

that many Panteras that have been restored or that are on the market

have had those modifications made.

And it's kind of generally accepted to be okay because it was a problem when they were new.

They also tend to that if you do have rust issues, they tended to have rust issues

back there in the back of the car where the cradle was for the engine and transmission.

And that's always something that you have to be very careful when you're buying a used Pantera.

You see those aprons there, kind of like fender wells and all the bracing under there.

A lot of people, they tend to just repair and then cover it all in black undercoating.

And you really got to be careful of how well those repairs are done

so that you're not going to have structural problems later.

I'm not that familiar.

I just know I've always been told be careful back in the back end.

You want a rust-free solid car that hasn't been cut or modified back in there.

This looks like a nice honest car.

As far as macaque and doing a Pantera class, I don't know about that.

Of the three, train the Pantera, the 396 Chevelle, and the Trans Am,

which one's the most likely, do you think?

Knowing how macaque works and it's a curated event,

it's not necessarily the most popular or the least popular, it's just interesting.

The 70 Chevelle is just kind of a prototypical mainstream muscle car

that everybody's known and loved and enjoyed for all these years.

I don't think it makes a terribly compelling class.

Usually, the classes you want to be interesting, just like you said,

the overhead cam, Pontiacs, interesting.

I think it would be more interesting to do a class of 76 through 81 special edition

and black and blue Trans Ams and have amazing examples of all of those years.

And they got enough room in there, they can put the whole entire semi

from the smokey and abandoned movie in the backdrop as well.

Oh, that'd be awesome.

That's the one I think that would probably win a class before just doing 396, 70 Chevelles.

And I don't think a Pantera class would be something they'd be thinking about,

because it is a sports car.

I'm sure you could get one into macaque,

but I don't know if the Corvette guys would protest, I don't know.

Which of these cars, I guess just based on percentage,

do you think has the most growth potential in the next three to five years?

The Chevelles, it's 66,000, it might sell for 70,000 bucks here.

The Pantera is hard to say, it's got a week to go.

It's currently at 12,000 euros.

The Trans Ams got a day to go, and it's only at 20 grand.

So what do you think?

I'd probably guess the Pantera.

The Pantera transcends into the, it's more than just a Ford-powered kind of V8

muscle-ish Italian hybrid.

The styling of these cars, especially the early versions before the bumper,

a government bumper mandates, kind of cluttered them up.

They're very clean, crisp.

They're one of the most beautiful Italian cars to come over to our shores.

They're just drop dead gorgeous, and they also kind of slip into that exotic

fair to where there's a lot of collectors who are in the high-end stuff,

the Porsches, Ferraris, and Maserati's who I could see all would want a Pantera someday too.

So I think there's no ceiling for Panteras where I think the ceiling is already kind

of set for Chevelles and for Trans Ams.

Pantera could still continue to get further and further out of my willing reach.

I'm watching all three of these auctions, but I'll just put a good eye on that one.

Second set of cars, less brainpower required here.

I've waived the $100,000 purchase price.

It doesn't mean that they are an expensive car.

Some are over $100,000.

Some are not.

I have a feeling I know where you're going to land on the first two.

I have no clue on the third.

Which one of these three will have its own McCacken auction?

That's all we need to know.

All McCacken segment.

So what do we have?

Yeah, McCacken class.

Okay.

Yeah.

First is the 68 Shelby GT500KR convertible.

I just had my KR at an event this last weekend at the

like mere classic auto festival.

And when it comes to these cars, I rarely look at the convertibles,

but I'm specifically talking about convertible Shelby's.

Is that a wanted thing?

Is that a big deal?

Do you want a convertible anymore or less than a non convertible Shelby?

It depends on the individual.

I don't tend to like Shelby convertibles.

Everybody likes when you put the top down, then the roll bar is sitting there.

But I think the roll bars, they look kind of goofy to me with the top down.

Top up or top down, they're not nearly as attractive to me as the fastbacks.

And I feel that way about a lot of convertibles.

It depends on the car's original styling.

And there's so many classic cars out there where the original styling in the

two door hardtop form, that's the entirety of the stylist's vision.

And when it's got a unique roof line, like if it's a fastback like this Mustang,

or for instance, 6667 GMA bodies, where it had those beautiful C pillars,

and then the rear glass kind of inset into there to where it kind of made sales.

But inside, when you look at the convertible versions of those cars,

the roof is sawed off and tossed aside to that beautiful roof and replaced with a rag top.

And I don't like the way they look with the top up.

I don't think they even make good looking cars with the top down.

They're super models when they're the two door hardtop.

That's where they look gorgeous in my eyes.

Other people, if the top doesn't go down, they don't want anything to do with it.

It's really up to the individual.

Convertible Shelby's typically bring a little bit more money than fastback Shelby's.

They're rarer and they're convertibles.

And they just typically have always historically brought some more money.

Although that gap has narrowed over the last 10 years, if you ask me.

But me, I don't want one.

I've got my fastback.

I've got a 68KR fastback.

It was my mom's daily driver back in the 70s.

Gorgeously restored.

And that's all I want in a Shelby's fastback look.

I don't know these are well enough.

I know on a fastback, the windshield is raked back a little further than it is on a coupe.

So looking at this car, is this a fastback raked back windshield?

Or is this a coupe windshield?

The rake of the windshield is not different at all.

It isn't?

It's just the height of the windshield.

I thought it was totally different.

And in fact, that only applies 69 and up.

I didn't know that.

I thought they were different.

Okay.

Well, you learned yet another thing there.

You see those vent windows there.

Those vent windows are the same for all body styles.

So the angle of that vent window pretty much dictates the angle of the windshield pillar.

Okay.

I would not have guessed that convertibles would bring more money.

I have the same opinion as you.

I think the fastbacks are better looking car.

I just do.

But the question is, could convertible shelbies get on a macaque in class?

You think that's true?

Yeah, it could go either way for this car.

You could have a macaque in class for convertible shelbies, and that would be cool.

Or you could have a macaque in class purely for the KR version of the 68 shelby.

And that would be cool.

Okay.

I could foresee a macaque in class just for KRs or just for all convertibles,

which would include the 67 prototype that still exists all the way through 1970.

How about car number two?

I think I know your answer.

I can't wait to find out, will this have a macaque in class someday?

That's the 2023 Dodge Challenger SRT Demon 170.

Hear me out.

I'm tracking these things, and they are routinely pulling six figures.

They're trading hands, I mean, often.

It is not uncommon to see one of these things sold two or three times a year right now.

This one has 14 miles on it.

There are a lot of speculative buyers out there.

There's never going to be a shortage of these available on the market even 20 years from now,

because the same people who bought them to put away eventually will get bored with just sitting

there looking at that car that they're not driving or using or life gets in the way,

or you start getting older and trying to pair things down so that your family doesn't have

to deal with it, yada, yada, yada.

These will be on the auction circuit from here to eternity.

Will they get a special place at macaque now?

20 years from now, maybe.

Okay, so it's possible.

It is possible.

I haven't seen macaque and do a class for modern muscle.

Okay, but 20, 30 years from now.

They may have done a class for Buick Turbo V6 powered cars for like the Grand Nationals,

CNXs and 89 Trans Ams.

I don't know.

Maybe they did.

Maybe they didn't, but I could understand that because cars are already plenty old now.

It just wouldn't be very special or compelling to see a lineup of six or a dozen basically brand

new health hats.

Well, not yet, I guess.

If you want to see that, go to any MECOM auction at any given location, you can see that.

How about car number three?

And it doesn't have to necessarily be this year, but I find this year interesting for unique reasons.

79 Ford Ranchero GT, and I'm going to say yes.

You could see a class for this macaque, but let me specify it.

Throughout all the years of Ranchero, I would begin with, let's just say all Rancheros,

because I think you could get a 289 hypo during the Falcon era of the Ranchero.

You would define that as a muscle car of some way.

But I could see a Ford Ranchero class that included muscle or performance versions of the Ranchero.

Now, this is a Ranchero GT, so that's pretty cool.

Oh, it's Ranchero GT.

Well, this is also a Ranchero 3T with a NEMEC 302 in it.

So it's kind of borderline, but it does say GT on it.

In 1957, the Ford was making very few.

You could get a supercharged F-code 312 in your Ranchero,

and there's a few of those out there.

That would be great for a performance Ranchero GT class.

68 and 69, you could get the 428 Cobra Jet.

70, 71, you could get the 429 Cobra Jet.

72, 73, you could get the Q-code 351 Cleveland Cobra Jet in a Ranchero.

So, I know everybody's really excited by all the variations.

I'm sorry, I'm kind of boring.

But you could put together a really, really sweet, cool class of muscle car Rancheros,

I think, all the way up through 79.

You just kind of put your tongue in cheek once you get to 75 and newer,

in that there were no muscular engines at Ford to be put into a Ranchero,

but they still put the cool GT graphics and sporty wheels on them anyhow.

I frankly couldn't remember.

I thought this might be the last year for Ranchero.

Maybe it wasn't, but it was close.

And the fact that it was a GT with a Weasbag engine is why I chose it.

Rick, I haven't seen one of these since I was a kid, ever.

If they didn't rot away, they got thrown away.

They weren't beloved by anybody I ever knew,

but yet here's an original one with the grabber stripes and all of it.

And nobody's throwing them away today.

It's not like they're super valuable.

And I think 79 was the last year.

But whether it's a Ranchero or an El Camino from the 70s or 80s,

nobody's throwing them away anymore.

They are quite desirable and loved and people save them and they fix them up.

Even if they don't restore them, I see them all the time driving an hour or a lot.

You know, a fresh paint job and some nice wheels and rits up the interior.

And a lot of people just still daily drive them.

Okay, between a Ranchero class and a either convertible Shelby or 68 Shelby KR class,

which one would end up at McCacken more likely for a conservative class?

I want to see the Ranchero class.

Really? Man, you surprise me all the time.

I think that would be the most interesting one of them all.

Okay. This thing is $8,000 with two days to go.

Should we buy it?

I don't know.

I'll carry you on if you want it.

It looks really nice.

It does look nice.

It looks really nice.

I've got to say out loud, I do not want it.

But it does look nice and I hope it finds a nice one.

My clean.

It's not all crusty underneath.

It's another good clean car.

So who knows?

I'm going to watch it myself.

Yeah, even the bed's super nice. $28,000.

All right, Rick.

Well, thank you again.

Happy Thanksgiving.

And what this really means is your next interview is the Christmas show.

The year has escaped us.

It's over.

Yes, it has.

And now it's time to go to 2026.

But we still have one more to go here.

So I will see you in a month.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Same to you, Rob.

Thank you, Rick.

Excellent as always.

Okay, that is it for now.

We'll be back next week with the start of our interviews from SEMA 2025.

Definitely looking forward to that.

I will be back next week, though.

Wait, I'll be back next week.

Period.

Between now and then, hit me up on Facebook or Instagram anytime.

Be sure to sign up for our weekly email newsletter.

You can do all that on the homepage of themusclecarplace.com website.

And as always, don't forget to keep chasing your dreams like you've let me chase mine.

Thanks for listening, everybody.

Bye-bye.

See you soon at the Muscle Car Place.

0:00

49:44

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