Top 5 Sports Cars Under $50K, The First Sports Car, The Aging Fleet | Episode 1,007

Hello friends, the podcast is back.

We're back. It's another uh what is it?

Tuesday. Yes. Welcome to Tuesday. We

have so much news, all the normal

things, the car debates, the car

conclusions, your questions. I have

something I want to talk about TV

show-wise in the did you see this that

just kind of struck me recently about a

couple of TV shows I watched. So, we'll

talk about that as well. I like most of

your did you see this so far have been

movies and TV shows.

>> That's all it's going to be. That's all

it's going to be. Absolutely. You're

going to talk about designed. I mean,

I'm trying to mix it up because I don't

want to bring in watches because I know

you might

>> Well, I mean, I'll just

>> face plant onto your keyboard.

>> I'll just snooze on the back of my

computer for a while. So, that'll

happen. Uh, by the way, for those of you

that somehow thought there was some

massive conspiracy theory,

>> I put a new sticker on my computer. Are

we happy now?

>> It rubbed off in my bag by being put in

my bag and taken places. So, the Y

rubbed off. There was no big conspiracy

theory. The CIA was not involved. The

NSA has not been here. But I put a new

sticker on.

>> I'm so glad.

>> There we go. So, that's happened.

>> Solved the problem.

>> The world is better now. So, yeah.

Anyway, speaking of ways the world is, I

don't know, changing better. I don't

know which way we want to go. We should

dive right into news.

>> Mercedes, have you heard?

>> Uh, Mercedes cannot give away the EQ

series vehicles.

>> So, just in California and we saw some I

saw some on the freeway. I thought you

bought that. I also saw that Lexus RX

330. what

>> the thing that is the and the whatever

the yeah the

>> terrible I'm like you paid money for

that

>> apparently big deals are available for

those and it is it is a Lexus product so

you get that service but Mercedes has

decided to stop selling all the EQ

models here in the US which is part of

the news but the secondary news is uh

they're going to aim big

yeah they are I like this news from

Mercedes because they are teasing the

biggest product launch in history of

Mercedes 15 vehicles of the 30 they're

promising are slated to be EVs, which is

all fine, but they are going to

inundate us. I think

>> they're talking like 30 cars in the next

two years.

>> So, on a recent trip, we were just

filming in California and we stayed near

a Mercedes dealer.

>> We did

>> in Pleasanton, California. So, we were

in Norcal. Yep.

>> This dealership is enormous.

>> Massive. And just looking at the

vehicles on the lot, I'm thinking

Mercedes already has a lot of products.

Totally agree. We also have seen all the

coupe versions of all the SUVs.

Wondering when are those going to die?

>> So, does that mean for Mercedes,

>> you know, the SUV and the coupe version

of that? I don't think so. I think

hopefully that

>> the manufacturers are done with that.

We've we've gotten over ourselves, even

though I still see some versions of

those coming out. But this this is an

onslaught of new cars from Mercedes.

>> I don't understand how they're going to

do 30 cars in two years. That is that is

almost too much. Frankly,

>> the problem I have with it is that it

indicates a lot of platform sharing. It

just indicates, especially with the EVs,

it's going to drive the same. It's a

different model, but no, it's not. It's

just new styling with pretty much all

the same switch gear, electronics,

everything in there. probably same

seats, interior materials, and it's

different shapes to meet different

people's needs. How many people do you

have to cart around? And how much stuff

do you have to cart around? And that's

going to be the determining the shape

and size and

>> scope of every vehicle coming out.

>> To your point though, some of that is

they're going to get away with some of

that by doing things like the GLC and

the GLC coupe, and it'll be two models.

>> I think we're over that. I hope.

>> I am not.

>> Can we be done with that? And like to be

done, but I think put that in our past.

I think those are going to happen. I

think there will be doubling up there

which is pretty interesting. Uh I also

saw this bit of news. I have we have to

talk about this. We have to talk about

the fact that the uh the cyber truck

I'm going to show you here a photo for

those of you that can't see it. This is

a photo of a parking lot full of

dumpsters. I mean a parking lot full of

cyber trucks is dumpsters.

>> A bunch of cyber trucks. Now, I will

admit this photo isn't necessarily the

photo related to what I'm going to talk

about, but that is Cybert trucks

awaiting delivery, which speaks to the

fact that Tesla, who thought they were

going to sell a quarter million Cyber

Trucks a year, that was what they

thought, has sold 50,000 to date. I was

actually reading this morning, 6,000 so

far in 2025. So, that means they sold

just over 40,000 when The Thing finally

came out and was the thing. And and you

said we were just in Cali. It was

interesting to see how many of them are

in Cali. There's a lot of them in

California.

>> Yeah, we saw a lot.

>> There's still a few here. All the ones

here, I feel like, are now billboards

for some business. They're just a

rolling billboard.

>> It's a write-off for sure.

>> The the reality is these are piling up

unsold. But the bit of news is the US

Air Force uses vehicles for target

practice. This is a known thing, okay?

They want 30 new vehicles to shoot at to

test munitions

in New Mexico. And they have insisted

that two of them be cyber trucks.

>> I'm all about this. I'm all about this

>> because because here here's what this

this has layers. Okay. They've insisted

that two of them are cyber trucks. Now,

on first blush, this looks like one of

those government programs. Let's figure

out a way for Tesla to get full price

for its extra Cybert trucks. And that

concerns me because the other thing you

have to keep in mind is it's that same

thing you always hear about in the US

government like many businesses. If you

don't use your budget, you don't get

that much budget next year, right? You

got to use it up leads to $500 hammers

because we got to use our budget. I'm

very concerned about the US government

paying full price for Tesla Cyber Trucks

that they can't actually get to sell at

all.

>> But I don't think that's as much as

what's going on here as the other part

of this article that we both read. And

that is they want two of them to be

cybert trucks

>> because they are genuinely concerned

that cybert trucks are going to wind up

elsewhere in the world

essentially armored as mini tank

vehicles and they want to make sure

their munitions properly work against

cybert trucks. So

here's what

>> they're also stainless but that

shouldn't matter.

>> Shouldn't matter. They we know they

aren't bulletproof but I'm sure they're

not missproof. But here's

>> here's what's happened. The vehicles

that normally end up there are beat down

Toyota trucks we don't want anymore,

>> right?

>> These trucks are theoretically going to

miss the first, second, third buyer and

just go straight to four corners of the

globe as the beatdown truck and then

what kind of carnage, ecological

natural carnage is caused by blowing up

a cyber truck. You take a munition that

already is going to scar the land beyond

belief and you throw a missile at a

cyber truck. What kind of don't come

near here for a hundred years carnage

does that leave on the globe?

>> Extra big boom.

>> Seriously, I just I there are layers of

this that make me laugh so hard.

>> You know, I've been seeing commentary

about people saying because this is

stealth fighteresque with it services,

>> they're saying they want these four

targeting systems.

understand their, you know, how will the

targeting systems react to the material

and of course the faceted surfaces which

might have a a bit of validity. I'm

reading the same article everyone else

is and it's

>> it's funny. We don't know if they're

getting them for or if they're paying

full price MSRP. I kind of doubt it.

>> I hope not. Even though I don't think

the US government typically when you get

a government pay full price. That's the

thing. They don't they don't worry about

it. So they pay full don't worry about

it. And with the cost of munitions,

they're not

>> too concerned about spending a little

bit extra for target practice. So,

whatever. But, you know, it had to be

done. So, now we've got at least one

Tesla Roadster in space,

>> and now we're shooting at other Teslas.

>> Uh-huh.

>> Not only are they not bulletproof, we're

going to really prove it.

>> Here's, you know, here's my

recommendation for the US military. If

you're going to blow up a cybert truck

with a munition, put that on your

YouTube channel and then also release

the explosion moment as a short because

you'll probably make a good amount of

money back on the fact that that's just

out there to the general public to watch

a Cybertruck getting absolutely

decimated by I don't even know what, but

they're going to throw a lot of things

at it. But, uh, we're blowing up Cybert

trucks now, everybody. That's that's

what we've reached.

>> More news from GM and Hyundai talking

about co-developing vehicles. And I did

not see that the first time around. They

actually announced they were working

together. And this does not necessarily

mean it's for the North American market.

They are talking about two different

segments, actually three different

segments of co-developing vehicles to

make more than 800,000 vehicles in a

year once production is fully scaled. GM

apparently is leading the development of

a midsize truck platform because GM is

good at building trucks.

>> They are. Yes. Mhm. Hyundai is leading

the compact vehicle and electric van

segments and so they're sharing common

plat platforms because of course

developing unique interiors and

exteriors consistent with the respective

brands according to the Hyundai press

release. Design engineering work

underway on the new vehicles for the

Central and South American markets

launching in 2028. They've got this

commercial van to be manufactured in the

US as early as 2028. GM has kind of

partnered with Korean companies before

Dau in particular. So

>> true. True.

>> Working with Korean companies is not

something that's new to them. Gives them

access to tech.

>> Agree. It gives them opportunity. I

think there's an interesting thing going

on here. There is a photo that was

released with this that I think I'm

going to read into it. I I'm going to

read a bunch of stuff into this photo

that I don't think was necessarily

thought about, but I'm going to put it

out there anyway. And that is a photo of

the two CEOs shaking hands. Okay,

>> fine. Of course, it's what you want. But

the reality is, you've probably heard

this before. The Hyundai H. The Hyundai

H is described as it's supposed to be

two people shaking hands. That's the

shape. And I don't know how smart this

photographer was. The Hyundai logo is

above where they're shaking hands. And

the shape of their shaking hands does

align with the Hyundai logo. Look, I

think this is a power play and GM lost.

>> Oh, you think so?

>> GM was the big dog here, but GM signing

with Hyundai. I do not think GM looks

like the big dog. I think they look like

the retreating brand and Hyundai looks

like look where we are now. And the fact

that their logo is two CEOs shaking

hands and here's just below their logo,

two CEOs shaking hands.

>> I think this is a power play that GM is

the little dog now despite their

investment in EVs and their own Ultium

platform and their their existing

tie-ups.

>> Well, GM But that's the thing. GM jumped

head first more than probably any other

brand. They did a like 180 pivot. The

world's going EV. GM's going to be all

EV.

>> Volkswagen was slightly ahead of them, I

think,

>> possibly. But GM went so far down the

road and now that there is a big retreat

in EV takeup. GM's caught they're caught

in a place where they didn't develop the

non-EV stuff. They spent billions on

EVs. I mean, you've mentioned before

they kept their V8 plants open and that

kind of stuff, but they spent most of

their R&D and most of their big spend

was all toward EVs and now the market is

turning away from that, which means GM

has to be on a retreat path and find

other ways back to other markets and

they partner with Hyundai who Okay, 20

years ago,

>> Mhm.

>> Hyundai partners with GM. Who's Hyundai?

Hyundai partners with any true

>> right now. This is at least equals and

possibly Hyundai's got the oneup and the

I just I couldn't help but see their

logo and their company description of

the logo when I saw this photo of the

two cos shaking hands. I'm reading in

none of that is official, but I just

thought, huh, I don't think GM is the

power move here. So that will I will use

that as a transition to an actual GM

power move and that is the ZR1 at the

ring. This happened a little while ago.

It's very impressive. They've got the

ZR1 and the ZR1X. So the rear wheel

drive and the all-wheel drive version.

The ZR1 did 650.7.

>> The ZR1X, the all-wheel drive version

did 649.2.

And both of those, if memory serves, is

slightly faster than the Mustang GTD,

which was the point. The Mustang did I

think 652 something or so something like

that. Yeah. So, both of these beat the

Mustang and of course Ford has now said,

"All right, it's on and we're coming

back or whatever." But we had heard

already that Chevy was going to try to

take the GTD Americanmade car record at

the ring and they clearly went and did

and it's very impressive. One of the

other things that's impressive about

this, but this is the place I want to

actually dig in. These guys in the

photo, these guys in all the photos and

on all the press stuff,

>> these are the GM Corvette engineers.

Yep.

>> This is not a hired gun driver.

>> Yeah. None of them are pro drivers.

>> So now these there's two ways to look at

this. On one level, these guys are good

drivers.

>> Oh yeah,

>> I'm not going but it's just GM drivers.

Doesn't matter. No, these guys are

excellent drivers. But the thing I think

is interesting here is the fact that I

watched some of the incar.

>> Mhm.

>> And I am not claiming by any shape or

form that I am as fast a driver as these

cars. No part of me thinks I could touch

these times in these cars. I'm not

pretending that at all.

>> But we've seen a lot of incar.

>> And we know the track well.

>> True. True.

>> I know the track pretty well at this

point. And I've watched a lot of incar.

The thing I'm noting when I watch these

end cars is in places these guys are

offline.

In places these guys are not optimal.

And why should they be? Their purpose is

not to know the ring. Their purpose is

to drive these cars. And I'm sure they

knew the ring well enough. But I kept

thinking about our friend David

>> Petard. Okay. Okay.

>> David is a master of the ring.

>> He's won the 24 hours of of

>> Nurburgring. He drove that uh Chinese

car, whatever it was called that got the

the X7 or whatever. He drove the X7 and

when they drove it in nonoptimal weather

conditions, he did a 640 something. He

went back in optimal conditions and did

a 622. Now that is a 202

cut off his lap time. The point I want

to make here is

>> the ring is not like other tracks in the

world in one major way when it relates

to time. Your typical racetrack, you can

get offline in a corner, it'll add a

half second to a second to your lap very

easily. You're like a second slower and

you made one little mistake. The ring is

so long that time compounds.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And you start missing a corner here or

not being optimal there. And it's not

like, oh, David Petard's an example.

It's not like we can go find a second or

two. You can go find 10

>> simply because of the language.

>> The difference between Yeah. The

difference between we got that corner

perfect and we got it right, that

compounds over time. 10 seconds are

available here. I think while this is

very impressive and I'm very impressed

that Chevy took this car and beat the

GTD, I think there's more in it.

>> What's David Petard do in this car?

>> While I'm very impressed with these

numbers, people have been saying, "Well,

there's other cars that have gone

faster." And my question is, those other

cars have gone faster things like the

Mercedes 1 and the Manti Racing GT2. And

most of the time those were driven by

guys that the ring is their thing.

>> David Petard in this car. I bet you

money there is a low 640 or something in

the 630s in these cars with a ring

master behind the wheel. That shows you

just how impressive these are. And I

think there is more time here. And Ford

has its work cut out for it.

>> Well, I think the same thing could be

said for the GTD. I think if you put

that same driver in the Mustang, there's

a whole heck of a lot more in that car

because I also watched that Chris Harris

with Max Versstappen Max taking it out

and starting to explore the edges

>> very I mean right away very early and

impressing Chris. Now I don't know if

Chris was feigning a little bit how

impressed he was or if it truly he was

blown away. I think I probably would be

blown away by the talent of

>> Max. Pretty impressed. Yeah. So Max was

already getting close to the edges of

the GTD. So that could you could say the

same thing about this car or or that

that Mustang and put the same pro

driver. So I think at this point the

only way to really know is to have the

same drivers.

>> I agree with you.

>> Or let's do

>> three drivers, let's say, and they each

drive the same car. They're each prepped

the same way, optimal conditions, same

tires.

>> Because I think this can keep going back

and forth. As much as I am I respect the

GTD, this appeals to me far more.

>> I agree with you. Yeah.

>> But also, what do you do with this

>> other than drive it to Cars & Coffee and

say, "This is the American Ring Record

production car."

>> You're right.

>> Don't you want to take a photo?

>> Yeah, you're right.

>> Really? I mean, incredibly impressive.

>> Well, and and it Corvette.

>> So, what's next, though?

>> Totally. And this is Corvette doing the

Corvette thing. Corvette has just beat

the GTD, and that's it's like almost a

third of the cost of the GTD, which is

even crazier. Yes. I mean, I I hate to

say this, as impressive as the GTD is,

and as much as I want to drive it,

>> the Mustang doesn't need to be the end

all beall. Let's make This was where the

Ford GT was great, and I know they made

a Ford GT in a couple different

variations, and they were phenomenal

cars, okay? But I I really personally,

and I'm not a Mustang guy, clearly, but

>> I struggle with we made a nearly

$400,000 Mustang. I know it's not all

Mustang, but we made a $400,000 Mustang

that's super heavy. And I have no doubt

it's super impressive, and I'm

incredibly excited to drive it.

>> Yeah.

>> But if you're going to make a hypercar,

>> just make a hypercar.

>> You don't have to take a car you have

and turn it into a hypercar. The

Corvette is on the border. The only

reason the Corvette's working here is

because they went mid-engine with it.

>> Correct. and Mustang still being having

that swath between the base rental

convertible

>> to the GTD.

There's a lot of models in there, but I

think still the base car kind of

>> tears it down a little bit. It's the

wrong shape. It It has that linkage all

the way back here. Whereas

>> I suppose you could say the same thing

about the Corvette, but the Corvette

still seems a little bit more

supercar-ish now having gone mid-enine

with its shape. It's It's like the

Mustang is the wrong shape to do this

with.

>> It's almost more impressive that it's

even close to this time than this

actually beating the Mustang.

>> The Mustang GT is fantastic that it's as

heavy as it is and works as well as it

does and gets the times that it does. I

literally I am fascinated to drive that

car and this car. But I I actually

wonder, maybe one of you knows this

better than we we do, but is the Mustang

now the car with the largest swath ever

between base and top end? We're talking

10 times price difference. You can get a

base one in the 30s. You can get a GTD

for nearly $400,000. It's more than 10

times the price of the base model. That

has to be the widest swath ever.

>> Even in world of 911s, the 911 swath

isn't that big. The base 911 is 100

grand and the top one is like 300,000. I

just I am I am utterly fascinated by

this battle here. And I also think it's

funny that the cars that are above this

>> Mhm.

>> aren't mass- prodduced cars.

>> The GT uh GT2 is as close as we get to

mass-produced and it isn't.

>> Yeah.

>> So, you know, that's the thing. These

are cars that are built in quantity and

they've turned them into monsters like

this. That's amazing.

>> They're monsters, but they're not good

for any race series. Oh, true. The

Mustang GTD is like the perfect IMSA car

except they already have GT3 Mustangs

>> and this one doesn't regulates

the rule book. Yeah.

>> And this one is good for I'm still not

sure what, but as impressive as these

times are, look at the lap time

difference. You would think a car with

200 extra horsepower and the front-wheel

drive uh electric motor pulling it

through corners ostensibly. Yeah, this

is this is

>> would actually be more that's just over

a second faster.

>> Just over a second on the ring.

>> You'd think with your what you've noted

>> over that length that this would be five

10 seconds faster and that would justify

the X to me because now

>> the times are so close again in the

hands of

>> pro-Aam drivers.

>> Yes.

>> They're too close to justif they don't

justify each other's existence. Well,

it's either just have one or the other.

>> But back to what you said before, and

that is that they were different

drivers, too. This is the fastest time

of each car with different drivers. If

the same driver was in it, and the same

driver ran the same lap, would they get

the same time? Would they be even

closer? I don't know.

>> But they might have, but they're not

going to post a slower time for the X.

Of course, because that doesn't sell

cars.

>> Yes. Exactly. But at the end of the day,

I have to say the big takeaway here is

wow. Yes.

>> To Chevy.

>> Yes. And I am astounded by these

engineers who without being ring masters

went and did this. And I still think

let's get David Petard or Yord

Bergmeister or somebody that everybody

can agree on that knows the ring and

they're throwing them down or maybe two

or three like these are your certified

ring record drivers

>> and because that's the only way that

this is going to make any kind of sense

when you're getting into a second or two

over a track as long as that. Well,

yeah, Max just went out under a

pseudonym and set the fast lap.

>> A super fast lap for the full

>> having never driven it actually and only

driving that day. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Can we just ask Max? Max, will you

>> He's not busy. He's got nothing going

on. It's You know what? Honestly, I I

can't believe that I can't believe he's

still in I think I can't believe he's

not bored yet.

>> I think he is bored. And I think he has

>> I don't think he's in F1 for a long time

to come.

What if Max and Lewis both left? Would

Formula 1 be as interesting? I think it

would take a while for it to ramp back

up and be as interesting.

>> I think there'd be a couple seasons

where it really is a bit of a

free-for-all. And that's kind of what F1

needs. Sorry, I didn't expect that the

ZR1 thing would go to You're not busy.

>> Can you drive Mustang? You've already

driven. You kind of know it already. And

jump in these two and we'll see what's

what.

>> Speaking of American manufacturers, we

should also jump to this news. Have you

seen this? Dodge has decided engines

sell. Dodge has decid this. This This

actually was announced the day we do

this podcast. We knew it was coming, but

it's official now. The new Dodge

Charger, or it's actually not that new

cuz it's been out for a year, but just

hasn't sold as an EV in two-door and

four-door is getting the RHO, the

straight six 3 L twinturbo engine that

was recently in the Ram RO that you and

I drove, which was the replacement

engine for the big TRX uh Hemi

essentially. So, it's not a Hemi V8, but

it is a 500 and something horsepower and

500 and something torque turbocharged

twin turbo straight six engine that we

actually like that engine a lot in this.

So, I'm very curious to see do we think

does this do it for Dodge? Does this

vehicle start selling now?

>> They're posting numbers already. 550

horsepower, 531 pound- feet of torque on

91 octane, standard all-wheel drive.

>> Mhm.

>> Yes, I think it will work. Okay.

>> My big problem is they're still too big.

They're still too big and heavy. I

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Just don't understand. The Mustang is

too big and heavy.

>> The Corvette is slightly too big. If

that if that were like

>> 8/10,

yes. Yes, if it was 80% scale and

slightly smaller,

>> 3,200 lb, 3,100 lb. All

>> do is remove the golf element out of the

design brief and it would have been 75%

scale of what it is.

>> I'm sorry your golf bags don't fit, but

have you seen this car?

>> That was the real buzz kill. But again,

people want to take their vet to go

golfing.

>> We've done a video on that, by the way.

Still, I think this is still too big. It

feels and looks even bigger than the

last gen.

>> It does. It does. Challenger and

Charger.

>> I feel like it's still too big. Even

though that kind of power

>> is going to make it dance for sure.

That's what people want. But the other

thing that's going to hold it back is

noise. Sound sells. We've identified

this constantly. Whenever you buy a car

and especially the comments we see on

YouTube.

Imagine paying blank amount. You only

got six cylinders. Imagine how much.

Yeah. Or Yeah. Or four cylinders.

People say that all the time. They're

now equating dollar amount to number of

cylinders. And it almost doesn't matter

what the power is.

>> It matters how many cylinders you have.

But they had that engine teed up. It's

in production. So that's the easy way

out. So it'll help, but we're still not

quite back to where they need to be. And

I think they're going to continue to

learn that.

>> Well, yes, but they also are pivoting

and they know it already because there's

also been news that the 392 is going to

stay in the Wrangler and find its way

into the Gladiator. and they're talking

about doing the 392 and the Wrangler and

Gladiator indefinitely. So, they've

they've drawn the line off the board,

the planning board, which is

interesting.

>> And there is a lot of rumor right now

that the TRX, which we loved with the

Hemi, and then it got this RHO, which we

actually still liked it in that and in

some ways I think was the better daily,

even though that's not a daily truck,

but anyway, better daily with that

engine. But we're fully expecting the

TRX with the Hemi motor to come back.

Yes. Apparently, Stalantis has realized

that that's really what their customers

want from that vehicle. So, that

engine's working its way back around

into reality somewhere. It's they're

going to dust off the how they made

them. Maybe they got a bunch from the

back. I don't know. They probably still

do. They

>> probably do.

>> But this time around, the 2.0 has to be

more.

>> Yeah, we were at 700 horsepower. All of

our minds were blown. 700 horsepower

supercharged with a warranty. What kind

of metallurgy sorcery is going on in

that engine? We don't care. We'll buy

it. Right. Everybody bought it.

>> So now John Hennessy gets a hold of

those things. Does drag races with

>> everything.

>> So do they need to go consult with John

to actually make something the 800

horsepower that cuz there already was

the TRX mammoth for a 1000 horsepower?

>> Yeah, he always does that stuff.

>> Start dropping crate motors into these

trucks and go crazy. It's got to have

more though. It's always got to the next

gen has to have more. But here's the

thing though. Even if it doesn't have

more, the marketing can be it's back,

everybody. Even if it's exactly the same

was, it can be. It's You know what it

is? It's New Coke.

>> New Coke comes out.

>> Oh, you're right.

>> New Coke comes out and it's like the new

greatest, latest, and greatest. And

there were all these I'm going way back,

but it happened. It was there was a time

in there was a time in life when Coke

was made one way

>> and then they made new Coke. And there

were all of these news stories. I was a

kid. There were all these news stories

about the people that were like filling

the back of their cars and buying

trailers verse of of current Coke cuz

they didn't like New Coke and it was

just new Coke on the shelves for a while

and then they went to Coke classic

meaning the prior and all of a sudden it

was it's back everybody. They can do

that with a Hellcat motor in the TRX.

It's back everyone. I know you didn't

like new TRX, new Coke. Old Coke is

back. It's it can be the same

supercharger wine with 700 horsepower.

It's just the fact that it's back and

we're burning gas again that will sell.

The problem is

>> will these big engines

sell these cars well enough for these

companies and brands to survive? And I

just don't know because I

the the heavy horsepower big motor is on

one level every bit as politicized as

the EV version.

>> For sure. For sure. Yeah.

>> And they just need to sell cars. I think

the all-wheel drive is the fascinating

part of that that they're all going to

be all-wheel drive, but you can turn off

all-wheel drive to do a burnout. It's

like, can we just have it be rear wheel?

Anyway, whatever. I know all-wheel

drive, there's an equal sign in people's

mind to safer, but we're talking about a

4,000 lb plus 500 horsepower plus

monster. It's It's going to be dangerous

no matter what you do.

>> The Dodge Apology Tour is coming soon.

That's Sorry, we messed up. Will you buy

one now? cuz we brought it back and it's

got even more power. Maybe 750 or

something.

>> Is the band shirt, the the the co-op

tour, the Volkswagen and Dodge apology

tour with like dual dates all across the

world.

>> Oh, coming soon to a dealer near you.

The Dodge Apology Tour. And

>> we're sorry. The V8's back. Goodbody.

>> And I I don't think Dodge can build a

small car. I don't think Stalantis can

build a small, compact, fun,

lightweight, interesting.

>> The Dart and the 200 Chrysler were dead

on arrival.

>> They were dead on when they dropped.

>> Everything has to be big and heavy. So,

let's bolt the biggest engine we can

find. Here we go.

>> Sell cars.

>> Since you're listening to us, you'll end

up shopping for your next car very soon.

And when you do, you need

autotempest.com.

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cars one search

for our topic Tuesday today we're

talking lists I know you like lists we

actually wanted to talk about

>> used cars under 50k more importantly our

top five each of us our top five sports

cars so that means two seats only

dedicated sports cars available right

now under $50,000 I gave myself an extra

parameter I only broke for one car and

that

They they can't be more than 20 years

old. We could go back. We could just

keep going back. We could keep back and

back and back and back and we could

argue, okay, but this was a better

sports car because of what the original

sports car name and you know, I don't

mind driving something 40 years old. We

could do that, but I stayed with the

exception of one car. I stayed

essentially 20 years old and newer.

>> Mhm.

>> And I got more than five because I think

uh you're going to bring some of the

ones I do. I made sure I had at least a

clean five.

>> I think there's going to be some overlap

in our list, but this list got me

thinking. So, top five sports cars we

recommend under 50K.

>> Yep.

>> I could have gone in many different

directions. And so what we're looking

for from you listener and viewer,

>> we're looking for your spin on these

lists on these top five or top 10s

>> because we've driven so many things now

and I think there's such a der of

lightweight, fun, interesting offerings.

I want to cover SUVs. I do want to cover

trucks.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to cover

lots of market segments. There's

>> I think for a future podcast I'm toying

with this idea and that is

>> is everybody sick of the new stuff

>> and we're starting to get emails to this

effect. Are you starting to get

>> just tired of the new tech? You've had

it with screens

>> and old cars are suddenly kind of

appealing. Therefore, validating

auctions and validating mechanics and

tribal knowledge and knowledge of how to

repair cars and keep them around and

keep them running and old cars should

never disappear. And that's a different

discussion, but it does spawn other

lists because we could do top five

sports cars and go 20 years and older

and say we could

>> let's go cheaper and older.

>> And you know what? That is still

appealing to this day.

>> Do you want to keep it running? But but

look how cool it is. Yeah, I hear that.

Yeah. But for now, we're going to stick

to these top five. Do you want to jump

in, please, if you want to jump in?

>> Uh, I'll jump in, but then I guess

you're gonna have to to tell me where

I've overlapped with you. But I'm happy

to jump in. I also have a wild card that

breaks one of the rules.

>> First one for me, you're not surprised.

Uh, the Mazda Miata, the current Mazda

Miata, and and yes, you could buy an

older one, but we're talking under 50K.

The key thing about the current Miata,

the ND3 Miata,

is with $50,000, you could buy any one

you want. Mhm.

>> Yep.

>> You could buy older, you could buy

newer, but you could buy the RF loaded

out hard top retractable roof, or you

can buy the classic.

Nobody has still figured out how to make

a convertible top as good as Mazda

Miatas. An actual cloth convertible top.

The fact that you can actually un

unattach it and pull it back with one

arm. Well, it's because the car is so

small. It just works. Everything is

smaller.

Everything's

>> when my when my dad had Jaguar E types

growing up, it was a okay, we need to

deal with the top park on the side of

the road. Twoman operation to do it

right so that it folded right. We didn't

get weird creases and that's not going

to catch. I understand it was a car from

the

>> like that. Not like that.

>> Oh, I had that conversation many many

times like this

>> cuz I was the kid trying to help with on

my side of the car. Yeah, exactly. This

is so easy and they have maintained that

for essentially the better part of 40

years now. Oh, it's crazy to say that.

>> That's amazing.

>> So, Mazda Miata has to be on this list,

but I I I think it's amazing that the

brand new one

>> loaded. You won't break 50.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

>> That is very impressive.

>> You may not break 40.

>> Yeah, true. The the next one on the list

is going to be no surprise to anyone.

So, I even used my car, the Lotus Elise.

>> $50,000 in your pocket, you can go buy a

Lotus Elise. And I and I realize this is

barely inside the 20-year mark because

they started selling them here in '05

and they sold them till 2011. This is my

'06 in the photo, which is bright

yellow. Actually has the hard top on it

in the photo, but it obviously is a

target top that you can roll the top

away. But if we're talking dedicated two

seat sports cars,

you have to include the Lotus Elise.

Even if you you don't buy anything I've

ever said about the car, you think the

car can't possibly be good. Does it come

off the list? I don't think it's

possible for come off the list. $50,000

>> and and most of the ones you want out

there right now are priced between about

35 and 45. You can get them 50. You can

get some special super duper ones where

people are selling for 60 and above. And

I don't think you should buy those, but

separate thing.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Rear wheel drive, lightweight. This is

sports car hierarchy here.

>> Heaven Nirvana.

>> I It's way up there. It's way way up

there. So, I have to include that one.

As I move on, I know you're not

surprised, Paul. I'm sure it's on your

list. The Cayman and Boxster pair. Now,

this is 718s in this photo.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> You might not get a 718 for this money.

You might not get a 50. You might get

the very early ones with the 2 L, the

the just base 2 L at 50, but I'm just

using the latest picture to go, which

one can you buy and which one do you

want? These have been on top 10 lists

forever.

Since they started making the Boxster

and Cayman, it's been on top 10 lists.

These are enjoyable sports cars. Full

stop. Whether you like Porsche, whether

you don't like Porsche, whether you have

nuance about is it 987 or 981, it

doesn't matter. These are honestly,

having just talked about the Elise, the

Elise is much harder to drive than

these, and it's much less forgiving than

these. Even though it's great to drive,

the Cayman and Boxster can be your

daily. So can the Miata, by the way,

they can be your daily. And they It is

very hard to get these cars to bite.

>> They You can be stupid and you can make

them bite.

>> But you've got to really be a bonehead

>> to make these cars bite. And that is a

real victory on the on the behalf of

Porsche. And the fact that

>> used ones now are down in the 30s

>> is astonishing. It's a lot of car for

that money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's great news. It's great

news. Love there.

>> I I imagine that that's

>> We do have some overlap. Okay, we do

have There's that one. I I'm sure no

one's surprised that there's overlap

there. I'm moving on to the C7 Corvette.

This happens to be a Grand Sport on this

photo. C7 Corvette is way up there for

two seat sports car. And you may be

saying, I'd never get a Corvette. But

then there's alternate people that are

going, I'd never buy a Porsche. Who?

Where are you, Pepsi or Coke here? I

don't know if this is new or old Coke,

but this the C7 is available under 50

grand. Now, you may not get the Z06, but

you could probably get a Grand Sport

under 50 grand of the C7. I've noticed

that

>> I looked and yes, you can.

>> Uh, which the Grand Sport? Okay, good.

>> All of them are under 50 grand.

>> Excellent. So, there you go. So, Grand

Sport for sure, which is a phenomenal

version, but I have to go on a tangent

off of Corvette real quick.

>> Okay. Okay. because we did this review a

while back of the three generations, the

C7, C6, and C5. That takes you all the

way back to the early 2000s of the Z06.

All of these are great. I'm I'm cheating

the rules of top five by just saying

which Corvette do you like.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> So, you could do the the C7 Z06 is hard

at 50. It's it's difficult. You possibly

find one, but it might not be one you

want.

>> So, that Z06 is good. But the C6 Z06 has

that uh big old 7 L engine in it with an

awful lot of horsepower and a lot of

personality. That thing is crazy.

>> That was a good day.

>> And the C5 Z06 is a much better

allaround ageless sports car than people

realize. That is a really good car to

drive.

>> So all of those Z06s or at least

Corvettes are at least available. Which

Corvette intrigues you? Why does it

intrigue you? The C7 is a truly modern

car. Prior to that, the C6 and C5

generations, it's old Chevrolet interior

thinking and you just kind of have to

look past some stuff. Yeah.

>> The C7 actually pulls it off with good

seats and stuff. And that got me even

further down the rabbit hole.

>> Okay.

>> Because I have to bring up there's my

car that breaks my rule of 20 years.

>> Okay.

>> But I have to bring it up. Under 50

grand. When we start walking our way

down Corvette history, you know where we

wind up?

The C4 ZR1. I love that car

>> with the Lotus built V8.

>> This was the biggest surprise to us when

we did our American original film

>> is we happened to find somebody in Utah

with a black version of this, the ZR1.

We actually drove two different versions

of the C4 so we could drive a normal C4,

which is the '90s Corvette essentially,

and then drive this big old ZR1 with the

crazy crazy Lotusbuilt V8. This is

unlike anything else GM was making at

the time.

And it was a revelation to drive. It is

a phenomenal car to drive.

>> It's an old car,

>> but they are cheap.

>> I

>> And you have a very unique car in the

ZR1. And we've driven it more than I

think a lot of people, and it's very,

very good.

>> Before you change photos, the way you

tell this C4 ZR1, the way you can spot

it is, of course, the badge, but if

you're looking at the back, and I'm glad

you you've got a rear shot here. The

bodywork on the ZR1 is three inches

wider than the regular Stingray, the

regular car. And you can see that in the

license plate cutout. It's an extra inch

and a half on each side of the license

plate. That is the dead giveaway where

you're dealing with a wider car because

they they look so similar. You're not

going to really see it at first and then

you walk around to the back and it is

truly a much wider car and it does the

proportions for this styling even

better. I I love it even more. And and

the thing that surprised us the most

when we drove this, and I know I'm I'm a

little bit off book here, but this was

the car that kind of drove timeless. I

mean, the interior was old. You were

like, "Oh, this era, okay, got it. Yeah,

C4, got it." But plunger, push button,

but the driving dynamics were timeless.

>> It was so well done. So, I I'm way off

book here, but I wanted to bring up the

ZR1 while we're talking Corvettes. I'm

moving off of Corvettes finally to the

MR2 Spider. I had to put this list. I

that is an overlooked fantastic sports

car.

>> You could get five of these for $50.

>> You could get at least at least maybe

more. You might be able to get a full 10

of them.

>> Maybe a week's worth of driving.

>> You certainly could. You You could have

one for each day of the week. Buy all

the colors.

>> These are inexpensive.

>> Get the most recent one you can find.

They made them until ' 07, which puts it

inside the commentary, but they made

them from the early 2000s to07. The

early ones, especially the early ones

with the quote unquote automatic

gearbox, it was terrible. do not get

that.

>> Yeah.

>> But manual transmission. This has a

lesser version of kind of the engine

that's in my Elise. Many people talk

about this being the poor man's Elise

and they will put the Elise engine in

it, but in its stock form.

>> This is not a greatlooking car. It is

clearly trying to be the cheap Toyota

alternative to the Boxster.

>> It's not trying.

>> You think it's okay. All right. Well,

>> it doesn't have to try.

>> But but that's a that's an endorsement

in its own way. I mean, that is

definitely what they're aiming for.

These are inexpensive. They're not that

usable. There's very little storage in

them, but they are phenomenal to drive.

I am a big fan of these. And I think if

you're talking a cheap used sports car,

two-seater,

I this has to be on the list. This is

inex inexpensive. And this is Porsche

style driving for a lot less. The

interior is not great.

>> I think you described it as having Home

Depot plumbing parts. I mean like the

door handle looks

>> plumbing section was consulted.

>> Yeah, it it Yeah, there's some piping

there that was not highend.

>> There might be the HVAC vents and

possibly you know exposed sheet metal

and

>> but these drive so very well.

>> That's great.

>> And then I have to go another one.

>> I brought up the Z4 coupe BMW. Now this

is the same era of Z4 that I actually

owned in convertible form. But I say

look at the Z4 and look at the Z4 that

meets your price point because this has

always been the Boxster Alt.

>> Most of the time, objectively, the

Boxster drives better than the Z4,

>> but these are less expensive and they're

unique comparatively. And these Z4

coups, I think, is one of BMW's best

looking recent designs. And I actually

like the convertible. I own the

convertible and I fit in the

convertible. I don't fit in Miatas. I

barely fit in Boxers. the Z4. I'm like,

look at all this space.

>> So, I have to say Z4 as well.

>> I I'm gonna stop there. Oh, wait. No,

sorry. I do have one more. How many? My

list is like 12 things long. I'm sorry.

That's a lot of cards. That's a lot of

cards.

>> I have to bring up one more and then

I'll save my wild card because it does

break some rules. But my one more

>> because I'd be remiss to not bring it

up.

>> Honda S2000.

>> Oh, that's good. Yeah.

>> Honda S2000 is one of those timeless

things. I think I'm I'm going to make a

prediction here. I think in 20 more

years, this is going to be looked at

like the E- Type is looked at now.

>> That's high praise.

>> I think it's just

>> it's a big statement.

>> It's a timeless design. It was a

throwdown when it came out.

>> Yeah.

>> It still looks good. We saw a bright

blue one on our shoot this weekend in in

California and went by and I was just

like, that's a spectacular car. And the

one that they had was clean enough that

I just thought that could have been sold

this week.

>> Yes.

>> It's just it's goodlooking. It's clean.

It drives well there. Look, some of the

technology in the interior is old, but

it doesn't feel ancient.

>> These cars are there's just they're good

across the board. You can buy newer,

more powerful, better looking. You can

get better in any category, but this is

so good in every category. And when you

get them in a color and a late model

version, a Honda S2000 is a superb car.

And with $50,000 in your pocket, you can

get a gorgeous one, a fantastic one.

>> You don't need to bring 50K,

>> not even close

>> to get a gorgeous one. You can bring 30

35.

>> Yes, you can get so much S2000

>> and you'll feel like you overspent.

>> Yes, it they are excellent cars and they

are worth being on this list. I have to

stop. I' I've overstayed my welcome, but

that's my list.

>> It's totally fine. And I think by now,

dear listeners, dear viewers, you are

probably wondering about our lists and

the overlap on our lists. I went very

specific as well.

>> Okay?

>> And yes, there's overlap and there's

other cars that are good that are out

there, but it's like we always talk

about, they might be sevens or eights to

cars that are nines and tens for us. And

while we acknowledge them, Audi TTS and

Golf GTI and

>> Focus STS, you know, all that kind of

stuff,

>> they're good, but they didn't go far

enough for us. So again, we're sticking

to two seat rear wheel drive.

>> That's key. Oh, two seat

>> ideally manual. We're recommending some

older cars. For OEMs

to capture this same kind of feeling and

desire in enthusiasts,

they're going to have to do similar

things. I don't know that

>> there will be EV versions of of small

sports cars. There will

>> I guarantee it. They're they're coming

>> for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Are they going to

capture that same soul? And what I think

you and I are picking are

>> top five because of character and soul.

And the more we drive, the more I'm

after lightweing things. And the

>> Mhm.

>> I'm interested in more and more

lightweight things. And I just think

>> Camaros and Mustangs and Challengers and

Chargers, they're cool and they have

their place. They're just all too heavy.

And so none of those are on my list.

>> Yeah. So for Cayman's, I'm starting

there, but I want to select the 987,

>> whether it's 1 or2. I think this

version, this generation,

>> was the the most lively of all the

Cayman's short of going to a GT4 like I

now have, which I I can't believe it.

I'm amazed.

>> That liveless is back for me at an even

grander scale, and that's what I love

about it. But the lively, the buzz, the

engagement, the steering quality on the

987s.

>> I kind of want a 987. Again, you know,

in addition, if I were to have two

Cayman's, I want the GT4 and the Cayman

S.

>> You want to figure out your second

because they're different. They're kind

of different.

>> This is the most analog version of the

Cayman is the 987

>> for sure.

>> Absolutely. Hydraulic steering and its

era is very analog.

>> Exactly. Right. Before it went to 981,

which they're great cars. In 718, they

kind of realized, all right, let's make

it great once more. But

>> this one is just so superb. The styling

is really timeless now, and you can get

them well under 50.

>> The problem with the car that I really

want you to have,

>> is not 50. It is the Cayman R from the

987 generation built in 2012, which is

superb.

>> Bumped up the horsepower, changed the

suspension, better brakes. Yeah,

>> this one is so engaging to drive. Do you

know how much these cost nowadays?

>> They've got to be 70, aren't they?

>> They're not 50, 60, or 70 anymore.

>> Really?

>> They're 84 to 119,000 depending on your

uh mileage and condition.

>> Oh, man. Well, that shows you how

desirable they are, but that's that's

that's a little bit too bad. I mean, a

few years ago they were all 65 and we

should have all bought them.

>> Uhhuh.

>> And that's what we say about, you know,

great cars.

>> Cayman R is

>> it's a great car. Really? What? But it's

really good. Yeah. Yeah.

>> What is good news is you can get most of

the feeling of a Cayman R in a Cayman S

in a 987 generation. I think those are

superb. And I almost recommend starting

at 987 and working your way through the

generations as you mature as a driver,

as you want something bigger, faster,

but they're they're just so lively. But

going back is no bad thing. You know, I

imagine the GT4 718 because it's the

last of the breed. I hate to say it.

>> It's going to be the last of the breed.

going back to like a Cayman R and having

those two.

>> Interesting, huh?

>> I'm dreaming.

>> Of course you are. I I have to say while

we are here, your 981, your second gen

2015 Cayman is currently for sale. For

those of you watching this podcast right

now, currently as it drops, that is for

sale, that is available. And and

honestly, if you're in the market for a

Cayman, you could only do worse than

buying a car that Paul has owned. And I

say that because I do not keep my cars

up as well as Paul does. His cars are

pristine and that car has been very well

taken care of. Whoever buys your 981 is

going to get an incredible car.

>> It's really sorted right now. Brand new

TPMS, brakes, rotors, new tires. It's

fully sorted with all the service.

>> You are the rare owner who was like,

"How do I make it perfect before I list

it for sale?" You're also that rare.

>> Well, I don't want anybody to to say,

"Well, it it needs this or it needs

absolutely nothing. It's perfect to

drive. I'm going to miss that car, but I

do want it to go to a real enthusiast, a

really great home. You're going to get a

fantastic car. So, yes, everyday

drivergmail.com for

>> a used 981 or sorry, yeah, 981 GT.

>> Unfortunately, it's above 50, but those

cars are worth above 50. So, yeah.

>> So, moving on to second on my list here

is cheating a little bit because it's

not really a two-seater, but I think

it's a two-seater. It's in my mind. I

always think of this as a two-seater

because who uses the the back seats

except for kids?

>> Except for little tiny kids or your race

tires. It's funny. This means I don't

have to go back because this was my wild

card because it was 2 plus two. Yeah,

this is phenomenal. It's great. It's

really good.

>> And now in its latest iteration, this is

the Yuzu edition that is coming out

later in 2025. We are all about it. We

got a chance to drive it. It's not any

different than the Hakonei edition or

>> Yeah, it's essentially the same car with

a body kit and different exhaust. does

have quad pipes and it's never looked

better, especially in this color. What a

superb car. It's just I think of it as a

two-seater and so I put it on my list

and realized

>> I'm breaking the rules a little bit, but

I think we all think of them as

two-seaters, right?

>> Yeah. I mean, it's two seat sports car

is its premise even though technically

it's two plus two. Yeah, I had it for

that reason. Yeah.

>> Never looked better. I really love this

car. They're great.

>> The price of fun that we did was so it

sticks in my mind so much.

Are you having 82% more fun by driving a

McLaren? Are you having 36% less fun?

No, you're not. They're just fun. And

so, highly, highly recommend. I am

looking at the second generation here.

That is the GR86. The GT86 would be

first gen. And those, as fun as they

are, of course, the torque dip, the lack

of power, all of that stuff was solved

in the GR86. And I like it so much

better. More comfortable for straight

line driving and long trips. It's all

>> they they fixed or or refined the stuff

that we didn't like and they didn't

screw up anything we did like when they

went to the second generation. It's a

great car.

>> Easily under 50K. And then what

surprised me was sticking with the

Toyota product lineup is the GR Supra of

any era. I love the manual. I love what

Toyota has done.

>> The manual's really good to take that

BMW gearbox and make it theirs. It's

>> Are there any manuals available used for

under 50? I mean, I know. I'm sure you

could get a 3 L early one. going to be

pushing it. It's going to be pushing it.

And so I'm hoping the podcast this

episode ages just a little bit so then

we can truly claim

>> 50k is right on the cusp of

>> you can find 3 lers though.

>> You can find three liters correct with

the auto. It's just such a superb car.

And you of course see the through line

at 94.2 in wheelbase. So

>> Cayman wheelbase. You're just obsessed

with that wheelbase.

>> That's right. It's it's the magic

number. and Toyota acknowledging it and

building a car to match that wheelbase

of the Cayman is the best endorsement I

can ever suggest.

>> Yeah. Ridiculous, but funny that they

did that.

>> So, I suggest uh two GR cars. Okay.

>> The GR Supra GR86. And moving on, I also

have the C7 Corvette Grand Sport because

I wanted a Corvette and I instantly put

C8 Stingray.

>> Wait, they're not 50 grand.

>> Yeah. So, what in the prior generation

of all the C7s is the most interesting,

engaging, and value of all the

>> Corvettes are valued to begin with?

>> Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

>> It is the Grand Sport.

>> Yeah.

>> What a superb car.

>> Very hard to find a Z06 at this price

point, but the Grand Sports are out

there and C7s in general are great great

cars.

>> Just say stick stick with it. Grand

Sport. I love that car. It's just a cool

car. And you know what? The styling on

the C7 is looking pretty cool to my eye

these days. It's aged really well and

and it really is in many ways it feels

like the peak of what the Corvette was

obviously versus what it is now. Yeah.

>> All right. So, moving on to the last car

on my list. This is our photo from our

Mazda MX5 RF ND3 shoot and we put that

against the BMW Z4 M40i. But this car

really stuck out in my mind. If you

haven't seen that piece, that is a

direct comparison. Obviously, the price

is much different than the

>> Yeah. But I fell in love with the ND3.

>> I didn't realize that the minute changes

that Mazda made to the ND3 generation.

Not to say that all of the other Miatas

aren't going.

>> I mean, yeah.

>> What do you do after the ND3 RF? I don't

know what Mazda does.

>> It's going to be hard. It's probably

going to be hybrid. What's going to

happen?

>> They're going to I mean, handling and

chassis development. They're going to

have to impress themselves

>> to make something that's going to really

stand out. I mean, what an incredible

car. The passenger space sucks.

>> It's terrible. This is almost a

oneperson car, which is terrible to say.

>> It's kind of a one-seater, but that's

okay. And what a fantastic car. This

would be on my list. For the first time

ever, a Miata truly is on my list of top

five sports cars I would absolutely own.

It's just so cool and fun. I would have

it in NC the prior gen because I can fit

in that one and I do like it and I do

really like the NC quite a bit. But the

it's interesting if you watch our Miata

Generations piece it's quite a few years

old now because it was made right when

the ND first came out

>> and we weren't big fans of the first ND

the ND1

>> and the one to two was when they did an

engine change and it revolutionized the

car and then they tweaked that further

for the ND3. We're way down in the

minutiae here, but it is really

impressive how great that car is to

drive. Too bad it's a one-seater.

>> It's a one-seater. Well, break

>> the BAC Mono and the and the Miata. Same

thing. One-seaters.

>> True. They are. They truly are. All

right. Two cars left on my list here,

and they are the extras. They do not

meet the criteria,

but they are worth a mention.

>> Okay.

>> The M2 Competition.

>> Okay.

>> I really wanted to recommend the CS of

the first uh F82. Was it the F82?

>> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. F87, but those are too

expensive.

>> F87, but they're too expensive. I The CS

is my jam.

>> It's very good. It's very, very good. We

put it with a with a Lotus Euphora, and

it actually held its own. Yeah. It's

pretty interesting. That was a mismatch,

but fun for price.

>> So, I have to step back a little bit,

but that's no bad thing to competition.

And then, of course,

>> my only front-wheel drive car. See, I

Okay. All right. I think you're I think

you're off book at this point. I don't

think that works, but keep going. I

think Tell me anyway.

Despite what Max has just proclaimed

that frontwheel drive sucks the joy or

whatever he said about frontwheel drive,

it's non-driving.

>> Yes,

>> I don't care what he says.

>> This is a superb fun car to drive.

>> Excellent car to drive.

>> Proves, I think,

>> that front-wheel drive makes you an

enthusiast, too. Frontwheel drive can

absolutely be Honda has proven it to the

world. Frontwheel drive can be an

amazing, fun car to drive. The end. Full

stop. That's it. Honda Civic Type R. the

new 11th generation. Despite what Max

says, well, Max and I can disagree.

>> There are there are there certainly fun

to drive frontwheel drives, and we'll

talk through those at some point, and

this is definitely among them. But but I

I would say the thing on this car on the

Type R is that you don't care what the

drive wheels are.

>> Yes,

>> that's the interesting thing. It It's

irrelevant because it drives so well. It

is Honda really throwing down everything

they can do. I mean, I It's Yes, you can

get them at 50. Yes, it it's great to

drive, but it isn't rear wheel drive or

two seat. But at the same time, I I I

the fact that you acknowledge it is

worthion. It's worth a cool fun car to

drive.

>> It's very good. Bravo.

>> It's excellent.

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>> Our first car debate is Michael writing

from LA. He's writing in about his first

sports car ever. He's been listening to

the podcast for eight or nine years.

Man, Michael, thank you. That's

incredible. Thanks for doing that. We

really love that.

>> He is a 29-year-old clinical pharmacist

and works from home in LA. He drives to

San Diego on weekends, see family a

couple times a month, otherwise doesn't

drive extensively during the week. He's

getting married shortly, but they're

likely to not have kids. And the fiance

will probably have, I hate to say it

this way, the real car, the big car, the

SUV, whatever it is, cuz he currently

has a QX30 Sport Infiniti that he both

loves and loathes. He says it's it's the

rare hot trim CUV, and he kind of thinks

it's a hot hatch, but it's built on the

Mercedes GLA platform. So, it sounds

like what it's inherited is little

issues from both brands. Like some

little Infiniti issues here, some

Mercedes issues there. And so, yeah,

he's he said it it luckily it's under

warranty, but he'd otherwise he'd be out

about $10,000 already and unforeseen

maintenance. Warranty expires soon, so

he doesn't want to own it outside of

warranty. So the fact that he is getting

wants to get rid of this little SUV

>> and the wife to be the future is going

to have an SUV really kind of frees him

up a lot.

>> I love the way Michael you described it

as Infinity Skin on a Mercedes GLA.

You're absolutely right. And we like

parts cars. That's what I love about the

GT4. It's a parts car.

>> Couldn't have sold that many. That was a

bad idea.

>> I mean, it's a partnership and they they

got an extra car out of it. And again,

Mercedes is doing 30 cars in the next

two years. What are they bringing out?

My gosh. Hopefully not a bunch of

partnerships with everybody. It seems

everybody's shacking up with everybody,

right?

>> GM, Hyundai, and Mercedes bring you the

Yeah, that's going to happen, too.

>> Everybody merges. What if all the

world's car makers merged to make one

special car

>> and it the brand is just called car.

>> It's just car.

>> Somebody said it's that logo. It's a C

and an A and an R making a making a

little roundell and it's just car.

>> Every manufacturer

>> Uhhuh.

>> contributed. What a great idea.

>> I'm going to buy a new car. What car are

you going to buy? I don't know, but I'm

going to go down to the car dealership.

>> Go down to a car dealership. I'm going

to buy a car. What brand is that? Car.

>> Car.

>> Anyway, Michael is looking for no dogs,

no kids, no bulky sports equipment to to

carry. A fun weekend driver. Doesn't

think he needs four seats because his

fiance likes big cars. Will likely, as

Todd, as you said, will likely get the

SUV soon. Living in LA, Michael thinks

convertibles is the preference. Though

traditional he tra traditionally favors

wagons, hatches, sportbacks,

>> he can could be convinced on a coupe and

something relatively reliable, though

he's open to purchasing a warranty if

needed.

>> For the budget, hard stop at $55,000,

assuming he can currently get 18 to 20

grand for his car. All right.

>> For the Infiniti skinned Mercedes,

>> the QX30, we've driven it. Yeah, it's

it's fine.

Michael is currently eyeing BMW Z4

M40i's.

>> I love this choice for you. He says,

"Certified used ones with less than

20,000 miles are around 55 grand. That

means the $75,000 version that we drove,

they're now 55 grand."

>> That's crazy that they've come down that

far. I mean, sadly, Michael, the reality

is the one you want is the manual, but

you're not gonna be able to get a manual

in your budget.

>> Is it really a hard stop?

>> Probably is a hard stop. I'll I'll take

his word for it here. He said he'd

actually like to have a Boxster, but the

boxers that he wants, none of them he

can get for under 55. So, I mean, we

just talked about cars under 50 grand.

You could get a Boxster under 50. You

definitely could. But the problem is you

you said you really want a 981 Boxster

S. Really? You can't find one of those

under 50? That surprises me. The 718

styling he doesn't actually like as

much. I

>> see the 981 is prettier. I think I think

dig nationwide cuz I think Boxster for

under 55. You might surprise yourself,

but I'm getting ahead of it.

>> Michael's considered Volvo V60

Polestars, Audi S5 Sportbacks, BMW M850

Grand Coupes. Those are too expensive.

That's a big car.

>> What's weird though is all of a sudden

we went to big cars. Big

non-convertibles are the other things

he's considering. I I Michael, let's go

smaller. Like, yeah, Mercedes C-Class,

CLA class, AMGs, it's a little bit

smaller. So, what is he missing? Michael

asks if it would be terribly

inconvenient to have a two-seater

convertible even though his fiance will

have a practical car. I think you just

answer your question. No, because of

your situation. I think totally agree.

>> Yeah, the SUV will take care of all

those duties and then I think you'll

actually enjoy having the two seat

especially a convertible.

>> I always take the budget as a

suggestion.

>> You take it under advisement. That's

really you've take you'll take the

budget under advisement and then you

will

>> I say quietly rip up the paper and keep

moving. Yes.

>> I say yes noted and sure your budget is

what you put on a piece of paper there.

We've written it down. You do the car

dealer thing like okay sure.

>> Yeah.

>> 55 is where we're starting.

>> Mhm.

>> And uh what's your monthly payment

budget here?

>> Yeah. They and then and then they're

bound to say to you, well that's just a

cup of coffee difference. What if you

had one less coffee every morning? They

they forget about the fact that those of

you my my great co-host included that

want your coffee for morning there's no

skipping coffee.

>> There is no skipping coffee nor food

breakfast has to I have to have

breakfast.

>> I understand.

>> So that M40i

manual transmission

>> really like that car if you can pull

that off. I do really like it.

>> The difference with the Z4 M40i

especially with the manual transmission

is that that rear suspension got revised

a little bit. So we liked it a lot

better. suggest manual

>> and it is worth it at that point. So,

yes to the Z4. Yes, shop. Yes, go look

at those. I think those are great. I'm

going to take you in a very strange

direction because

>> I debated this. I like this.

>> Really?

>> Yeah.

>> Because I thought if what you're looking

for, what you described was simply a

Miata, Michael. You just described a fun

two seat convertible. Well, it's just

the two of you. The Miata we have

determined as a one-seater.

>> We're solved.

>> Yes. and you just want top down fun

cruising around LA. You want to slice

through traffic. A Miata is your answer

there. But I'm sensing and we understand

this with LA. There's something about

perception. There's something about the

badge. There's something about pulling

up or being seen or any reason

>> is it's more important and is magnified

more in Los Angeles than anywhere else I

think on the planet.

>> To some degree, you're right. So you're

talking Aston Martin Vantage. This is

the the V8 Vantage Eric.

>> So, I suggest the V8 Vantage Cabriolet.

>> Okay.

>> If you can get manual, you're and this

is why again I I note your budget.

>> You're right. I do take it under

adisement. Under advisement I see that

on the piece of paper. Thank you for

submitting your budget. Yes.

>> But Vantage V8

acid, the sound, the perception is right

in line with what I think you're looking

for. Cuz if you're thinking newer Z4

M40i,

>> I I sensed a perception thing going on.

Little bit more substantial car. That's

exactly what this is.

>> But they're good on a back road. And

honestly, I don't Look, the manuals on

these are amazing. I really like that

when you you can actually find one that

is manual. It's really cool. But I'm I'm

going to say it. You don't have to have

a manual for this car to be great.

>> No, you don't. It's very hard to find

the manuals on this car. And you can get

it with automatic. And it is still a

fantastic place to be. And if you're

just driving for fun, then I I think the

the

where this loses in fun, it gains in

experience. So it might be a watch. You

know what I mean?

>> That's good. Well, speaking of

experience, I note your budget and I

discard it to offer you a wild card just

to get you thinking. I'm I'm only

discarding just simply to get you

thinking a little bit differently that

we're talking now perception. We're

talking open air fun.

>> Perception is big here.

>> Yeah.

>> And we're talking power and sound and

the looks, all of that wrapped into

>> Okay.

>> an Audi R8 Cabriolet. Go back two

generations

to get yourself the V8. And it doesn't

have to be manual. Although

>> if you can, I would, but they're going

to be super expensive.

>> Yeah, they're more expensive,

unfortunately. Yeah. But if you're

rocking an R8,

>> what? That is such a different level.

You can commute in this. But 5060 is the

bottom of the R8 market.

>> It is.

>> So you're you're it's not Here's the

thing. As much as you're blowing his

budget, it's not like you're doubling

his budget.

>> The the for manual maybe, but

>> the market for these is roughly you want

to walk in the door with 70

>> and you can find either side of 70. So,

so look, it's over your budget. You said

hard stop at 55. Paul has blown past the

hard stop. You're in the grass at the

end of the runway, but you're not But

you haven't doubled. I will defend you

because you haven't doubled his budget.

This sounds like you just blew it out.

The bottom of the market is the top of

his budget.

>> Yes, that's good. And if you go back to

the first generation here, I actually

like the styling the best.

>> I agree.

>> I never liked the the V10s and and the

subsequent generations. I feel like they

really got away from that pure RH shape

and go back to the first gen, find a

Cabriolet, find something. There have

been owners that put a lot of miles on

these. So, I don't think it's in the

>> exotic car class where you have to be

afraid. Just think that 4.2 V8 existed

in sedans. Yeah,

>> it existed as just cars you would just

drive through.

>> It was in the faton that I had. And what

was funny is we would have conversations

with my mechanic because sometimes parts

that needed to be replaced on the

Fatton, you couldn't get to them on the

Faton, but if only I'd had an R8, we

could just reach in and grab it. And

vice versa. So invariably, whichever one

you have, the opposite thing is going to

go wrong. The reality about these R8s is

they've been around long enough people

put enough miles on them. They haven't

been garage queens that the known issues

exist and you can defend for known

issues.

>> It is merely food for thought. It's just

a suggestion, but I'm just throwing it

out there just in case it appeals or you

might want to go investigate at least.

Maybe worth a test drive and

>> for sure. Yes.

>> No, just investigate a little bit. See

what you find. I think it could be a

really cool

>> interesting different choice because of

LA perception.

>> Those are my choices.

>> Those are good. That's very good stuff.

I have to jump to a couple of things,

but one of the things that I didn't have

a picture of, I'll start here with the

BMW Z4 you already mentioned, and I'll

use that as a launching pad for

something I just thought up when you

mentioned the Aston Martin.

>> Okay.

>> There is another one in here that that I

just this minute thought of, and that is

Jaguar F-Type.

>> Yeah, that's good.

>> That is the cheaper version of the Aston

Martin that you could get into, no

question for your budget, probably with

money left over. If you could find a V6

F-Type manual convertible, does that

even exist? Where are those in the

world? Those are those are only hard

tops.

>> I think they may only be hard top

manuals now that we're talking about it.

But either way, the convertible F-Type

is a car that gets overlooked and it

could be absolutely an option here. Of

course, the BMW Z4 you already are

looking at. You would enjoy this car.

It's very, very good.

>> The manual's better. So, can you spring

for the because it's not just a

transmission change. That's the key

thing. So, the manual is better if you

can do it. I have to say Miata again. I

have to

>> so good.

>> We're talking about the Miata a lot in

this episode, but if you're buying a fun

car and you have a budget of $55,000 and

you say, "I'd like to have a fun car

convertible." Didn't we all just hear

Miata in that sentence? Isn't that just

>> what happened? So I, you know,

>> but it's more than his budget and so we

can spend more.

>> He's already allowing.

>> Uhhuh. I We do have more budget than a

Miata.

>> Said no Miatas. That's very funny.

Exactly. The question The question I

have for you here, Michael, is how big

are you and how big is your fiance?

Because if you're small people, the

Miata is great. Paul and I are not small

people. I've never fit in a Miata well

ever, unfortunately. And the passenger

side space in the current ND Miata is

poor.

>> So, if you're not big people, this might

be great. But it is it is really hard to

argue that you bought a convertible and

you had more fun than you did top down

on great winding LA roads in a

convertible Miata. I think you'd have a

lot of trouble fighting that. But I have

to go somewhere else. And we've also

talked about this in this episode.

>> Get yourself a Corvette C7 because you

can get a convertible. But the thing you

have to remember is every other Corvette

has a removable top.

>> Yeah. That's the one thing that gets

forgotten about the Corvette a lot.

They're all target tops.

>> Yes, they are.

>> That centerpiece just lifts out and goes

in the trunk or stays at the house or

whatever. So, every Corvette you look

at, you could have a topless driving

experience in that Corvette.

>> So, that styling you can do convertible,

but I am a big believer in the fact that

every Corvette you have a removable top.

So, I think the C7 can't be overlooked

here. That is a great option. $55,000

you can get a very nice Corvette, a C7,

and enjoy it. And here's the thing, you

guys could drive cross country, San

Diego, wherever you want with plenty of

space in the Corvette, including the

fact that the back hatch has gobs of

space.

>> This is a cross country Grand Tour, but

if you get on a tight road in LA, you

will also love it. You're talking about

fun car you actually can get some

usability out of. It's hard to argue

against the Corvette. I know we've

talked about Miatas and Corvettes a lot

this episode, but they just work here.

They just work. I liked that. Across the

country or San Diego? I mean, for as

long as it takes you to get from LA to

San Diego, it might as well be across

the country.

>> Might be very similar in in time. You're

right. If you hit the wrong traffic on

the wrong day.

>> Michael, thank you for writing. If

you've got a debate like Michael's,

write to us. Everydayd driver

tvgmail.com. Topic Tuesdays, Carlusions,

car debates.

Nerval writes to us with an aging car

fleet. The current fleet consists of a

2016 Honda Pilot with 162,000 miles.

>> Okay. a 2021 Ram ProMaster City with

142,000 m

>> and a Honda S2000 with 172,000 m which

equates to Nirval's math here is 8,000

milk runs.

>> I love it that you have that car and

it's still running great. That's

awesome. I love it.

>> Nirval has listened to our originally

aired podcast and found it lacking.

>> It's It's funny when you get an email

where somebody just says, "I don't know

that I like what you do." That happens

here. But apparently he's found it since

then. In the last year and a half he's

found it, listened to all the episodes,

watched the videos. So apparently he

didn't like it originally and I will

admit

>> we've come a bit. Things have improved

just a bit since episode one. He wasn't

a fan of episode one or the first few

but he's found it in the last year and a

half and likes it a lot so he wrote in.

I just I love that. That was a nice

reality check like, huh, you're right.

Things have changed a bit. Okay. Uh-huh.

Good. The past vehicles in his life were

an '04 Honda Accord, 2000 Honda Accord,

a 2011 Honda Element, 96 Nissan Maxima,

heavily modified. Those 90s Maximas just

ran forever. You could sports car with

fire.

>> The four-door sports cars,

>> and a 92 Honda Accord.

>> He's also driven the following cars. 93

Prelude Si, Mustang Foxbody, 81 Firebird

301 Turbo.

>> Interesting. Okay.

>> And a 2024 Cayman GT4 RS on track.

>> Good for you. Yes. It's different than a

Mustang Fox body.

>> Yes, it's about the same.

>> Nerval has always had a love for

Porsches and that last car has lit the

fuse. I have also subconsciously pointed

out his vitamin P deficiency. I'm going

to use that sometime on a license tag or

something.

>> Very good. Yes,

>> it is vitamin P.

>> Yes, it has. It exists out there.

>> He says this has been rectified. He was

looking to replace his fleet because the

ProMaster City is a company vehicle. His

budget is 50K with a Paul limiter of

60K. What does he get? So, the Ram

stays. So, we're talking about the Pilot

andor the S2000. And he has most of his

car history is Hondas,

>> which is fascinating. I actually used

that in my conversation here. But we're

looking for a replacement. $60,000 for

the top end. Okay. So, how many Porsches

are you selling him, Paul?

>> Well, I am going to not just sell you a

Porsche, but I'm going to sell you a

very specific Porsche here. Nerval, I

have decided that you need to go after

the Cayman or Boxster T, the lightweight

version.

>> And that is because you've already

driven a very specific Porsche.

>> Mhm.

>> And this one, strangely, is kind of

close to a GT4 with the nylon pull

straps, for example. But what I like

about it so much is even though I have

not driven the T version of the Cayman

is that it's very focused on the fun of

driving even more so than everything

else. It's it's the Carrer and we have

driven Carrera T's.

>> It is different. It does actually. It's

just a little bit more. So, it's a

special edition. So, it's got the

Porsche active suspension management. It

does have the 2 L flat 4.

>> It's the base

>> base engine with the six-speed manual

transmission. But when you start to ring

that out, I think the manual

transmission paired with that engine is

the better solution for the

four-cylinder.

>> All right.

>> The PDK with that motor wants to upshift

very quickly and it doesn't allow you to

get to where the power is in that

engine. It just wants to

>> sure up and so you're down in the the

low RPMs. So, it's also got the Sport

Chrono LSD, smaller diameter GT steering

wheel, those straps, the nylon pull

straps, and the best part.

>> See, I see nylon pull straps as we

didn't give you parts, and yet you're

making it a selling point. You are you

are Porsche guy through and through.

Keep going.

>> But the whole point is it's very

slightly over 3,000. It's like you've

gone back to that original Cayman S, the

1971. That's true. That's true.

>> So, that's what I'm suggesting for you.

Cayman or Boxster T. And those are

within budget. Actually, I went

shopping. They're not the Cayman R,

which isn't, but these Cayman T's,

they're harder to find. It's a

deliberate choice. It's a very specific

lightweight choice. I had GR Supermanual

on here as well for you, which I'm

putting up on screen now. So, that's

another consideration only because of

the Cayman wheelbase numbers. The But

you're right, vitamin D deficiency. And

uh I'm hoping the Boxster T or Cayman T

will solve that. I mean, why did Porsche

come out with this

>> extra special and short-lived version?

That's why I'm pointing you very

specifically to this to this very

special version.

>> Okay. I think that's a really good one.

He's got $50 to $60,000. It's really

hard to argue against that. I do

understand that and I can't argue

against it either. Uh but I'm going to

come up with a couple of other options.

If you aren't going to do Boxster, and

you could for 50 60 grand, he could get

himself a used 987 Boxster or Cayman and

a used Cayenne. And for 50 to 60 grand,

you could have two Porsches in the

garage from none. Now, this involves

this involves you selling the S2000 and

the and the Pilot. And then you keep the

Ram for for business duty. And you have

now you go from two Hondas in the

garage, the Pilot and the S2000 to a

Boxster cuz there's your convertible and

a Cayenne. You could go full Porsche

with this budget. It is very possible.

>> But I have to bring up two others and

it's going to be fairly obvious because

one of them we've talked about too much

on this podcast and that's the Miata of

course would definitely work here. But I

have something you're not going to see

coming and comes entirely because you

are a person who likes Honda product. I

think you could keep the S2000 and

probably have money left over and that

is the Acura MDX Type S.

>> That is a sweet.

>> It's everything you like about the Pilot

with uh a Porsche style to it. It's

faster, it's better, it the dynamics are

excellent, the engine is very good, the

superhanding all all-wheel drive is

wonderful. You rarely ever see these.

New, they're like 70 grand. So, get a

couple old one. Get this as your new

bang around high mile SUV, but it's

going to have performance. It taps right

back into your Honda love.

>> Mhm.

>> This brand new or almost brand new MDX

Type S in your garage next to your

S2000.

That is a very

selective Honda buyer. I like that

you're going very specific with models,

too. It's interesting to me. I think

Type S, the MDX Type S and your S2000 is

a fantastic twocar garage that stays in

the lineage of the stuff you'd like.

Now, again, I gave you the all Porsche

garage. You could go all Porsche. It's

possible with your budget and you could

be very happy. I've had incredibly good

luck with used Cayens. So, they're out

there for your budget. Spend 25 to 30,

half your budget on that on the Cayenne

and get the other half for the Boxster.

You could stay Honda with the MDX Type

S. Phenomenal SUV. It is a Cayenne

performance Cayenne alternative for less

money. It's a very, very good SUV.

>> It is.

>> Keep your S2000. Drive your Ram. Be

happy. I have to bring it up because I

think the MDX is going to get overlooked

here and it shouldn't. That's excellent.

Nerval, thank you so much for writing.

Really appreciate it. Send us your

debates. We're looking forward to

hearing from you.

For our first car conclusion, Jordan L

writes to us about the Bahrain saga.

>> It's a car conclusion for the overseas

tour, and it's a bit lengthy, but rather

intriguing.

Jordan, I really appreciate you writing.

He's following up from podcast episodes

697 and 871, where he and his family

opted to sell the 2014 Audi S8 and

rehome their truck and Jeep with family.

At the time of their decision, the

healthy rebels in Yemen were shooting at

all vessels remotely related to US or

Israel merchant shipping.

>> That's a sentence we've never said on

this podcast. In over a thousand

episodes, we have never talked about the

rebels shooting at ships in Yemen.

>> But that would have put anything they

shipped at risk.

>> Wow.

>> Their intent, the intent was to ensure

the harsh heat, sand, and terrible roads

of Bahrain did not destroy their

recently paid off fleet. He said it's

worth noting the dash clocked the

temperature at 118 Fahrenheit in the

shade just 2 days ago when he wrote this

email to us which was recent.

>> He said buying an island beater and

commuting in it for up to 22 months

seemed like the best course of action

giving their given their experience with

the region and renting and leasing for 2

years did not come out to be cost

effective compared to just the outright

cost of buying a vehicle. When they were

last in Bahrain, they had work furnished

vehicles and lived within walking

distance of the base. They were also

there in 2020 during the initial co

lockdowns with no kids and they didn't

consider what they didn't know or what

had changed.

>> So you remember when used car prices

were through the roof during co of

course we all do. He said some re

regions of the world found that it made

more sense for them to stay there since

they haven't come down at all. Yeah.

>> Since people paid them. If you're going

to pay this much, we'll just leave the

price this much. Yeah.

>> Getting a new vehicle in a country that

only had imports was too much to justify

the cost. And on average, used cars and

SUVs that should cost six grand hovered

around 11,000.

>> On average, he said, they're also not

pretty.

>> So, it's not money well spent at all.

Got it. Okay.

>> They found Jordan and his family found

the local populace does not take care of

their cars. The Middle East may be known

for extravagant cars and luxury, he

writes, but they do not take care of

them. Preventative maintenance, none.

Pride in the basic condition of the

vehicle, nowhere to be found.

>> Oh my gosh. Okay.

>> He test drove standard SUVs like the

Pajaro, Mitsubishi Pajaro, G Wagons, FJ

Cruisers, all not a decade old that had

air vents that were broken and punched

out, screen smashed to inoperability. He

said, "You would rather have purchased a

10-year-old Ultima from an American

teenager

>> than a 4-year-old Macan in Bahrain."

>> In Bahrain.

>> Wow. Okay.

>> He said, "We'd be horrified if we saw

some Cayens and Macans driving around

there."

>> That's crazy.

>> Vehicles are treated like appliances,

yet the status symbol culture for

vehicles is still present.

>> It's very confusing, right?

>> So, buy it. Don't take care of it. When

it's, I guess, beat up, buy another one.

Use it as disposable thing.

>> Wow. Okay. He says the drivers are

outright terrifying.

>> He had a colleague state jokingly that

at first glance he thought driving

without looking at your cell phone was

illegal.

>> You have to look at your phone.

>> Basic traffic laws are not enforced. Car

seats for children are non-existent and

are not required. They regularly see

young children hanging waste up out of

the window or a sunroof of a moving car.

Now I will admit that was us growing up.

Well,

>> it's just we survived and that was my

high school years.

>> Totally. We survived and now we wrap

kids in bubble wrap in, you know, a a

chair with missiles. But that is not

happening there at all. Yes.

>> He said becoming parents to their second

child only 2 months after arriving in

country might have had something to do

with it. Wow.

>> So they rushed into purchasing only a

mildly molested 2012 Grand Cherokee

Limited for $9,000 US. It's got that 5.7

L V8 solid air conditioning and creature

comforts.

>> Okay. But after a week of ownership,

they ended up having to replace the

entire cooling system and a rear main

seal after being discovering it was

botched. The repairs were botched by the

previous owner.

>> He says it makes the same noises his

brother's 25-year-old Toyota makes, but

it soldiers on apparently.

>> Wow.

>> This is crazy.

>> He and his wife found that they worked

in buildings next to each other and

daycare is only a short walk away. So

commuting together in one vehicle had

been working well

>> uh until recently. Other geopolitical

event events have made for insane

working hours and conditions. No family

should ever have to go through.

>> All of you are actually just you're

rolling the dice and guessing what

Jordan does and guessing which agency he

works for and things he can't tell us or

he'd have to kill us. Moving on. Yeah,

>> that's good. He says to maximize

flexibility and practicality, they

decided to again hastily purchase a

second car. Buying a car under pressure

is never a good thing. Jordan's doing it

in Bahrain. Yes. Excellent. Good choice.

It's going to end up very well. Yeah.

>> They both wanted something sporty or

luxurious they could escape in after

work. The kids in their amenities always

have a say, though.

>> So, because of this podcast, Jordan was

hunting for an early 2000s Suburban or

Tahoe with good air conditioning. Yes,

that's a given. Yes,

>> Suburban Tahoe just equals good.

>> GM makes V8s that are designed to power

the air conditioning system. It also

moves the car, but it empowers the AC.

That's the purpose.

>> Limited budget of $10,000 US was not

enough to buy one that did not need the

same amount of budget for work for

repairs.

>> And the allotted parking spaces in their

complex garage limited to some Taho in

this category.

>> So, what did they buy? They got a

family-owned 2016 Chrysler Grand Caravan

that was owned by their local mechanic.

The transmission hunts around for gears

and the AC takes about 15 minutes to get

cold, but it's in budget.

and commutes the entire family

comfortably.

>> All right. Yep.

>> It's charcoal gray, slow, and very

boring, and they have to remind

themselves it's only for one more year,

and then they'll see where the wind

takes them next.

>> Wow.

>> He says he hates this because 7 months

ago, he had the idea of buying an old

Chevy SUV stateside, fixing it, putting

quality tires on it. Apparently, it's

diff difficult to get reliable tires in

the Middle East, and then selling it for

a profit. It would have been a great

project for practical use, but now the

juice is not worth the squeeze. He

writes, "Wow, he's kicking himself, but

he says he's got a crazy life." And uh

that's understandable, but wow, Jordan

writing.

>> That really is incredible. We love that

you that you wrote in with all of this.

The fascinating thing about this car

conclusion is less the cars you got than

the culture that you're dealing with.

And that's what's really cool is just

the world that you're in and that kind

of stuff is really wild.

>> Do you see his post script here? He

writes, "Buying any vehicle while in

postpartum does not help the

depression."

>> True. Yeah. You're not going to get out

of it because you bought a car. You you

you appreciate the fact that I say buy

the car for now, but obviously they've

also realized that maybe more sleep

would be helpful before they went out

and bought something. So, we're glad you

found stuff that currently meets your

needs, but we also appreciate the fact

that you're a little frustrated by your

current situation. We appreciate you

sharing it with us.

Car conclusion number two is from Thomas

B. He's in the UK. We covered his car

conclusion just recently, episode 101,

where he bought a manual BMW M2 after a

difficult period in his life, in his

family's lives.

>> Yeah,

>> they were expecting a baby in June of

this year, and they're pleased to

announce their son was born July 1st,

safe and sound.

>> That's awesome.

>> That means they had to get a different

car, though.

>> They did. Yes. Well, but he was

expecting that because see, they had

they had lost they had lost a child, and

that was the problem. And so that the

reality is he bought this M2 as part

part of his kind of coping and knowing

if I have if we have a second child that

is safe and well then I'm happy to get

rid of this M2. Well, baby is safe and

well and he was like the M2 is going.

Here it goes.

>> So glad. So what did they get? A

certified pre-owned 2016 Audi S5

Sportback.

>> Oo, cool.

>> The massive hatch makes loading pram

easy. Love that. We don't say pram.

>> We don't say pram. It's a good word. It

really is.

>> It's a good word. Rear seat room was

good enough for rearfacing seat without

crushing the front seat passenger.

>> That's good.

>> 3.0 supercharged V6 met the more than

four-cylinder requirement. You remember

that?

>> I do.

>> And he says the auto only was the

compromise, but it is the DSG 7-speed,

so quick shifting, responsive, and makes

running errands easy. He's been for a

drive with friends in the Peak District

near where they live, and it does

surprisingly well for being such a big

barge.

>> Yeah, he's that is I mean, those are

good cars. They drive well, especially

when you consider what they are. But it

works great for family, which is

fantastic. I love that.

>> He says he's not sure it's a long-term

car, but none of his cars have hung

around longer than 2 years anyway, no

matter how much he loves them, but it is

black. He says it's impossible to keep

clean. Too big to fit in the garage, so

it lives outside.

>> Okay. Yep.

>> And then when we come to the UK, he and

his friends have done the North Coast

500 in Scotland about half a dozen

times.

>> I want to do that so badly. Yes, we need

advice on

>> the top of my list of road trips I would

like to take. I don't know if it's going

to be the first one we take in Europe,

but it is top of my list of ones I want

to take. The problem with the North

Coast 500 in Scotland is that I want to

do that with my wife without having to

film it. And that's even harder to

justify because you and I are able to

justify a lot of road trips by taking

them and filming them. I just want to

have like a few weeks to do North Coast

500. problem is, will my wife tolerate

me driving roads and ooling roads for

that long while we stay in random

places? And there's a lot of stuff.

>> Yeah, I have a solution. Okay. Why don't

you and your wife

>> go on vacation? You guys go do that.

>> Okay.

>> And don't film it.

>> Okay.

>> Go enjoy. Just the two of you go enjoy.

Go drive around.

>> Yes.

>> You'll be you'll be mentally scouting.

>> I will be mentally filming it anyway.

Yes.

>> Because by the way, Todd has a

photographic memory. So, he will be able

to tell you exactly where he wants to

put the camera. I will be able to do

that. Yes,

>> I'll be like, "Okay, two miles this way,

there's going to be a turnout on the

right."

>> That a lot. It's amazing. It's amazing.

Bizarre. Yeah.

>> So, go have a vacation. Go enjoy and do

it without filming.

>> Okay.

>> Then I'll fly over.

>> She can

>> get out. She's going to be like, "I have

done. I'm very done." She can hang out.

>> I love you, but I'm very done.

>> See friends, hang out at a nice hotel or

resort or do whatever. You and I will go

shoot.

>> She'll hang with my sister that lives in

London. That's what she'll do. She can

hang out and

>> then we'll shoot because by then you

will have done first a scouting lab.

>> I will have. Yes. Uhhuh.

>> And then I'll fly over. We'll shoot it.

We'll do whatever cars. I'll nab some

cars. We'll we'll get some cars from

somewhere.

>> Apparently we need to lean on Tom for

all of the insider info. I would love

that, Tom. We would love to do it. It is

so on my short list. I can't even tell

you.

>> Tom, thank you for writing. Really

appreciate it. Car conclusions. Everyday

drivergmail.com.

>> I'm going to jump into Did You See This

because I want to talk about story in

film, in TV, that kind of stuff. I just

finished watching a TV show with my wife

and then I started reflecting on how it

was similar to another show with almost

the exact same premise. I'm going to

talk about two shows. One is on Apple TV

Plus

>> which is called Silo. And Silo has

actually gotten some good press. It is a

superb show. Very, very good.

>> It is based on a great book series by a

guy named Hugh Howie that wrote about

essentially an apocalyptic event in the

world. And so people throughout the US

move underground into underground silos

and that's how they're surviving

essentially what is nuclear holocaust is

what's going on. And so it is the

dynamics and the politics and all of the

drama of people living in a confined

space as underground silo.

>> Then over on Hulu you have Paradise.

Guess what? The premise is surprisingly

similar, but it actually is through the

eyes of a Secret Service agent who is in

charge of protecting the president as

everybody goes underground.

Fascinating to watch both these shows.

So, Paradise on Hulu and Silo on Apple

uh TV Plus. I recommend them both. I

prefer Silo. Silo is

>> deeper. It's based on a book. Of course,

most things based on a book are they're

just more intricate than you can get

even doing a multi-season TV show. But

Paradise is excellent as well. And they

both have different mysteries. But I

thought it was funny because both of

them have two major things in the

premise that are identical.

It's a an important person

dies.

Nobody can figure out why they died in

the first episode of a series that is

about people living underground in a

confined space. And the confined space

is all about I mean let's be honest

because you have limited resources

you're living underground it's all these

people everything has to be regulated

restricted food water procreation

everything's got to be controlled so to

have someone of power that dies in that

controlled environment throws everything

off. It's like why why did that possibly

happen? And that is essentially and they

take it two very different places but

it's the core of both of these shows.

So, if you're looking for the show to

binge, I recommend both of these. I will

admit, I prefer Silo. Silo is setting up

for its third season because there are

three books.

>> I've read them. They're excellent books.

Paradise was made for television, made

for streaming, and they will who knows

if they'll do a second season or not. I

haven't heard that yet. I think they're

going to, but both are excellent. Both

have interesting commentary about

current social realities,

>> but they go down very different

pathways. So there's discussion of

billionaires, who gets the the rights to

more things than other people and should

that exist? How do we grow food, deal

with waste? All the kind of stuff. We've

moved underground. What do we do?

>> So they're both underground.

>> They both are. Now, here's the thing.

Silo, here's the big difference between

the two. Silo happens hundreds of years

after people have gone underground.

Paradise happens like we just did this.

>> We're moving underground.

>> So it's they're different in that

regard. So, Paradise is a lot more shiny

and new, and Silo is is old, rundown.

It's like Mad Max underground. It's

crazy. But I highly recommend them both.

So, that's my Did You See This for the

day. I'm way away from Cars, but I just

like talking about TV and film. It's

just fun for me to talk about story. But

when I watched both of these, I've seen

Silo before. I just finished watching

Paradise, and I was suddenly struck by

the similarities

>> in premise while they go different

places.

>> So, you're saying, is there any driving

at all? Is there any

>> These are driving free worlds. They

really are. Yeah. Paradise has a little

bit of driving cuz we just moved

underground. But silo there there's not

even cars

>> cuz that would cause all of us to do car

shopping even more. We'd be shopping

like crazy

>> like we all shopping.

>> We all did at CO where we just we had to

go buy a car. Everybody got a bought a

car they're never going to drive and a

dog they're never going to feed. It's

terrible. But anyway, yeah, we're all

resetting from that.

>> Jumping to social media questions. Thank

you guys. Over on IG and Facebook, we've

got one from Kirk M asking, "Based on

the 12:1 ratio, the 12 lb per horsepower

>> ratio, fun ratio, what's the proper

ratio

>> for a new driver?"

>> Oo,

>> I mean, we we have assumed we're all

great at driving. We're all excellent

drivers, right?

>> Superb drivers, excellent drivers.

>> Max is here and we're like just a notch.

>> You and I are going to start being the

ring record, guys. That's exactly who we

are. Totally. Yes. Everybody's the same.

just ask us amazing drivers. But about

new drivers, Kirk is saying, is 18 to1

too slow? Is that too slow of a car?

>> Is something close to 14 to1 a little

bit better? He doesn't want people to be

bored, new drivers to be bored while

driving. But Kirk is looking for safety,

affordability, and maintenance first,

but wants to pass on car symbiosis as

much as possible.

>> I'm going to shift the measuring

category to answer this question. Okay?

because I haven't actually sat down to

figure out what car has fallen to 14 to1

or 18 to1 or whatever. I I don't know.

But I will say this. Every time you and

I drive a new car and it's 0 to 60 is 9

or slower.

>> Mhm.

>> We talk about the fact that we're not

sure that's safe anymore.

>> So think about it in those terms. If

you're if you're looking to buy a car

for your loved one that has just started

driving and the 0 to 60 is slower than

nine,

you're now you're a rolling roadblock.

everything is faster than you. And that

that is an issue. I mean, I I understand

you don't want a a powerful car for your

new driver, but if it's slower than 9

seconds, 0 to 60, you're practically

paddling like open up the windows and

like trying to help the car. That is

very slow. Everything else is so much

faster at that point that I think that

is the danger zone.

>> I'm doing math on my

>> Are you really

>> MacBook?

>> I'm always very impressed when you take

on math. Mhm.

>> I just calculated the GR86 and it came

out at 12.7.

>> So that would be right on the cusp of

sports cars that are just slightly

>> out of the range.

>> And the Miata is in that range too. It's

like 12 13. Yeah.

>> I was just thinking about Kirk cars that

you, as you talk about, Todd, you have

to use all of the pedal travel. Let's

say for both brakes and for throttle

application. So, you're using or

teaching new drivers to use all of the

cars capabilities because most cars were

just lightly pushing on the brakes

coming to a complete stop. Brakes are

very powerful

>> and they are.

>> And then to get going again, you don't

have to barely press

>> for a turbocharged engine. You're just

you're gone. You're you're zinging away.

So using a momentum car and finding a

car that might be slower, but then that

new driver can understand

>> using momentum up hills and you know

what, the brakes are not quite as

powerful and so I need to start breaking

a little bit earlier and using cars that

are under that threshold. I mean the

problem is modern Camry and Accords are

really quick.

>> They're they're very fast. They're very

powerful for what they can do. So, I

think we're going to have to go older

naturally aspirated cars

>> and more economical. I think all the

economical cars that you can think of

three and four cylinder whatevers that

just didn't have a lot of power. Great

for commuting. I think that is something

great for a new driver. I mean, they're

of course within budget and for

insurance costs too, but I think those

are the sweet spot because you have to

>> I can't get up this hill. I can't I

can't keep up with traffic. So, they're

not bored necessarily, but they're

realizing, I got to get good tires on

this so I can take a corner and

understand hanging on to a corner so I

can get on the throttle earlier. And

>> I love the idea of using everything, but

at the same time, you you want to be

using everything and knowing that you're

not being a roadblock because that's I

don't want to create that level of

stress in a driver. There's a trade-off

there for sure. Damn it. Patton is

asking about car colors. Should people

be able to spec their car in whatever

color they would like or should there be

some level of buyer protection, meaning

certain manufacturers have certain

colors only available?

>> We put the inflatable bumpers down the

bowling alley for you so you can just

We're just going to kind of guide you,

Mr. Customer,

Mrs. Customer. I you know, look, I think

I think it should be a pallet available

to everybody. I really do. I mean, you

know, obviously Porsche does paint a

sample and you can spend money and you

if you spend money at the very high end

of pretty much any car maker, you can

get crazy paint colors. I feel like this

should be a lot more available to all. I

mean, not with not not to the place

where it's paint to sample where you

bring in, you know, whatever the swath

is and go make it match this. I don't

mean that far, but I mean

>> so many manufacturers like this is only

our color. Like it's a yellow. It's a

red. Let's I I the Mazda Miata is the

biggest problem here.

Mazda and Toyota right now have somewhat

of a partnership on various things to

the point that Mazda is using Toyota's

red and that kind of stuff. Why isn't

Mazda using all of the colors that are

available on the 86? Where's the yellow

Miata? Where's that uh light blue Miata

like we first bought? I I think there

should be a lot more transition here

where when a car manufacturer, and I'm

talking normal manufacturers, I'm not

talking crazy stuff. When a car

manufacturer kind of cracks a paint

color, like, oh, that's a good paint

color,

>> then all the manufacturers of that level

should be able to share that color

>> and it should be like a blanket

upcharge, okay? Because what happens

here is you see like white is included

at $0, but then every other paint color

is like 600. Let's make it 1,500, two

grand. Let's make it an up price, but as

a result, you get an availability of

pallet. Like, I would like one in this

color and it's across lots of

manufacturers. And then if you really

want to go crazy, you can do paint to

sample and that kind of stuff. But I we

this Mercedes dealer we just drove

through.

>> Yeah.

>> There wasn't one colorful car on the

lot.

>> Yeah.

>> White, gray, black, silver.

>> Yeah.

>> A couple of dark blues. Done. If the

world's car manufacturers build one car

>> car paint color.

>> Uhhuh.

>> Wait. Here's the pallet for your car.

>> New from the car company. The new car.

From the car company offered in the

color

>> car.

>> The car in the color. Buy it now.

>> Eric P says, "On Tuesday's show, we were

talking about reliability. Do we think

user error causes more cases of lower

reliability rates than actual

reliability issues?

>> When Eric worked for Dodge, Chrysler,

Jeep, Ram dealers, he says there was a

focus on explaining the features to

customers before they left with their

new car. Yep.

>> Because the dealer found people came

back saying the radio's broken when nine

out of 10 times they just didn't know

how to use it.

>> Education.

But people treat cars like phones.

>> Uhhuh. I got I don't don't tell me how

to I can do this. I can figure out a

car. I know exactly what to do.

>> Now, where's the button for that and

what it I didn't even know this car had

that feature. And that happens a lot.

So, I understand education, but people

don't like to be told they nobody likes

to be

>> Do you like to sit through an education

process of now let me tell you how to

turn on the radio?

>> Well, and what happens also is people

sit I agree with you. People sit through

that talk and honestly we absorb only

the stuff we're going to need or

interested in immediately and the rest

of the conversation doesn't stick until

you need that feature and you go how was

I supposed to do that again and Eric

I'll go you one further this has

actually been quantified because those

JD power ratings and the reliability

ratings that come out for the first year

of somebody's car

>> most car manufacturers have gone down in

rating over the last 1015 years and they

have looked at it in reverse and found

that most of it has to do with people's

frustration with UI. The number of

problems, quote unquote, they're having

with their car is not a problem. It's an

issue that they can't solve. So, they

mark it as a problem. But the reality is

it has something to do with the UI being

now buried in the screen. They don't

know how to find the thing. And so, it

doesn't work or it was a source of a

problem, so they mark a problem down.

It's not reliability and it broke. To

your point, Eric, it's people not

knowing how to do it. But, it's so hard

to educate people on this. And you and I

struggle with this because this is a car

Car journalist disease problem. We climb

into so many cars. You get another one.

You go, "Wait, where is the Okay. Um,

I'll give you a perfect one. The start

stop button, the automatic start stop."

Cuz we desperately are always wanting to

turn it off. You sit in every car and

the first time it dies the light, you

sit there light like looking all

directions like head on a swivel like

where is that button in this car?

Because it's different than the last car

we were in.

>> And some cars defaulted on, some cars

don't, and some cars don't have it. and

and my my parents currently have a brand

new it's like a year old now brand new

current gen Hyundai Sonata and they love

it

>> but my parents' history was only ever

buying GM vehicles. So, what's happened

is, yes, it's got a lot of new tech in

it, but they've seen Apple CarPlay and

that kind of stuff. But what's happened

is every manufacturer, Mercedes is the

king of this, but every manufacturer has

their own ways of setting up your center

console and the stalks on your steering

wheel. And my parents are defaulted into

the way GM works. So, I would bet you

half of the issues they've had with this

car, many of which I have solved for

them, is they are looking at the car and

expecting the things to work like a GM

product, and it doesn't. and it works

like a Hyundai product. Hyundai does

that stalk differently. Hyundai puts

that button over here instead of over

there. And their first impression was,

why is this so frustrating? But the

answer was, you just got to learn where

the button is. And and I'm not coming

down to my parents regard. This is

exactly what Eric's saying, and this is

common now. It's a problem.

Again, if the world's car manufacturers

made one car with one user interface,

>> I love how we started this podcast

talking about best sports car up with

the unicar.

>> One,

>> just one car.

>> That's what Apple is trying to do with

Apple CarPlay Ultra. You saw our last

episode, but who gets to decide who is

the arbiter of universal interfaces? So,

we just learn one. All buttons work like

this. Do we want the Tesla Cybertruck

model of the turn buttons, the turn

signal buttons right next to each other?

No. Even though every Cybertruck owner

would tell you this is the best way

ever.

>> It's fine. It works great.

>> No.

>> It's built in. It's ingrained. The

stocks, you can actually retrofit your

Teslas with stocks to solve this problem

because stocks are better. They just

are.

>> So, it's almost like you're saying cars

need to get a little bit less reliable.

So, you're forcing customers to remember

to service something.

>> But the only way we can get there is to

increase the amount of tech. If cars are

so great and work so well and we can go

like 3 years between oil changes and 10

years between service and we can't don't

do that.

>> Don't do that. That's all bad. But if we

can do if cars continually get more

reliable because of manufacturing

techniques and everything is so

consolidated, the tech needs to remind

customers and also remind the dealership

to continually reach out, I guess, to

the customer and it hits your phone

saying, "Hey, stupid. Bring in your car

for

>> Nobody wants more phone notifications."

That's all, man. No, you don't. And and

the UX should be easier.

>> I'm trying to solve it with tech,

though. If we're so far down the road of

tech again, if car manufacturers just

all combined forces,

>> see that's this is the salt. I didn't

think we did that here today

on today's episode.

>> One truck, one SUV.

>> It's just for the rest of

>> from the brand car.

>> New from car.

>> The new car from car. That's what we've

done. We've just gone to unicar. We're

all going to wear the same suits, you

know, the same suits to go to space.

We're all going to drive the car.

>> The future is just the future.

>> It's three. It's three different box

shapes. I guess it is the people mover

pickup truck. You're

>> right. The car, van, and pickup. Car

>> fun is outlawed. No more sports cars.

>> Yeah. New from car. The car, the van, or

the truck. Thank you for watching. Thank

you for listening. I don't know that

we've solved it. We made it worse

actually in this podcast. We've actually

made it worse.

>> But thanks for being with us. There will

be more of hopefully making it better

next time. We'll see.

>> Okay. So, I'm anti this idea. I totally

know

>> new from I want to make the logo. It's a

C with an A in the middle and then the R

is like shaped on this side. I can see

the logo. It's like a variation of what

the Toyota logo looks like right now.

Just car.

>> You'd only have to learn one interface

for the rest of

>> everything. Yes,

>> Apple CarPlay is the interface. It is

the All right, we're going to end it

there. Thank you guys for watching, for

listening. Send us your questions.

Looking forward to next time as always.

Cheers, everyone.

[Music]

Top 5 Sports Cars Under $50K, The First Sports Car, The Aging Fleet | Episode 1,007

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