Toyota Land Cruiser's Complicated Past — Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep 179
The Carmudgeon Show
Toyota Land Cruiser's Complicated Past — Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep 179
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Toyota Land
The Toyota Land Cruiser is a big SUV that's great for off-roading and is known for being very tough and reliable. It's been around for many years and is considered a classic.
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The Toyota FJ60 is a tough SUV that was built for off-road driving. It's part of the Land Cruiser family, which is known for being reliable and capable in tough conditions.
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The Chevrolet Stovebolt 6 is an old engine from the late 1920s that was known for being strong and reliable. It was used in many Chevrolet cars and trucks.
Term
Quattro
Quattro is a special system used in Audi cars that helps all four wheels get power, making it easier to drive in bad weather or on rough roads.
Car
Audi 90
The Audi 90 is a car from the 1980s and 1990s that was known for being fast and having good handling, especially with its all-wheel-drive system.
Term
turbo
A turbo is a part of some car engines that helps them go faster by pushing in more air so they can burn more fuel.
Car
Lexus Lx
The Lexus LX 600 is a fancy version of the Toyota Land Cruiser. It has luxury features and is great for driving both on roads and off-road.
Car
Lexus Gx
The Lexus GX is a fancy SUV that can handle rough terrains while providing a comfortable ride. It's built to be both luxurious and tough, similar to the Toyota Land Cruiser.
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Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that looks really cool and goes super fast. It’s been around for a long time and is loved by many car enthusiasts for how well it drives. People often talk about it because it’s considered one of the best sports cars ever made.
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Jaguar XJ6
The Jaguar XJ6 is a fancy car made by Jaguar. It has a stylish look and is known for being comfortable to drive.
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Jaguar XF
The Jaguar XF is another luxury car from Jaguar that came after the XJ. It's designed to be stylish and fun to drive while still being comfortable.
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Jaguar Xjs
The Jaguar XJ-S is a stylish sports car that was made a long time ago and is known for being very luxurious and fast. It has a classic look that many people admire. People talk about it because it’s a symbol of luxury and performance.
Car
Toyota GX
The Toyota GX is a luxury SUV that can handle rough roads and off-road adventures. It's similar to the Land Cruiser but is designed to be a bit more comfortable and upscale.
Car
Toyota Rav4
The Toyota RAV4 is a smaller SUV that's easy to drive and great for families. It has a lot of space inside and is good on gas, which makes it a popular choice.
Car
Toyota 4Runner
The Toyota 4Runner is a tough SUV that can go off-road easily. It's built like a truck, which makes it strong and capable for adventures.
Term
four-cylinder engine
A four-cylinder engine is a type of engine that has four small chambers where fuel burns to create power. They are usually smaller and use less gas than bigger engines.
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Toyota Tacoma
The Toyota Tacoma is a type of pickup truck that is strong and can be used for both work and fun, especially when driving off-road.
Term
fuel pump
The fuel pump is what moves gasoline from the tank to the engine so the car can run. If it makes weird noises, it might be broken or not working right.
Term
injectors
Injectors are parts that spray fuel into the engine so it can mix with air and burn to create power. If they don't work well, the engine can run poorly.
Term
eight-speed automatic
An eight-speed automatic is a system that changes gears in a car automatically, making it easier to drive. More gears can help the car use fuel better and drive smoother.
Term
torque
Torque is how strong the engine is when it turns. More torque means the car can speed up faster and carry heavier things.
Term
V8 engine
A V8 engine has eight cylinders that help the car go faster and run smoothly. It's commonly found in larger vehicles like trucks and SUVs.
Term
six-cylinder engine
A six-cylinder engine has six parts that help it run. It's usually more powerful than a four-cylinder but can be more fuel-efficient than an eight-cylinder engine.
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Volkswagen Golfs
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10-speed automatic transmission
A 10-speed automatic transmission is a type of car gearbox that can change gears automatically. It has ten different gears to help the car run better and save fuel.
Term
hybrid engine
A hybrid engine is a type of car engine that uses both gas and electricity to run. This helps the car save fuel and be better for the environment.
Term
8-speed automatic transmission
An 8-speed automatic transmission is another type of car gearbox that changes gears automatically. It has eight different gears, which helps the car drive smoothly and efficiently.
Term
electronically disconnectable sway bars
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Carmage and show, that's what this is. I'm Derek Tim Hive and Scott, that is Jason Camisa. And that is a BMW E30, which has absolutely nothing to do with what we'll be talking about today. Oh, it does. Very nearly nothing to do with what we're talking about today. No, completely. Well, it's straight six. Okay, well done. Which was the original engine configuration for the Toyota Land Cruiser. This subject of today's episodes. And Jason's recent, somewhat recent, Icons episode on the same subject.
Yeah, it's one of those fun cars that you sort of don't know you love until you really spend some time with them. I should say lineage, it's a lineage of cars that you could wind up loving. Yeah, not a truck guy. You're not a truck guy. Correct. Although we're both closets like Raptor Dabble. I mean, I've had a, I've owned a defender in a couple of Range Rovers. Yeah, I had a Suzu pup. That's the closest thing I've ever run. A truckette. A truckette. Yeah, so I have that.
Be at risk, which is not a truck or a truckette. It's a E30 yet. It says dirty E30 on the back. Yes, which is pretty good. Okay, let's hop to it. This is part of the jump skip hop, whatever part of the haggity podcast network. Yes. And we're done. Clap. And we're done. I'm going to clap.
I was reasonably sufficient. There's no base to it. It's got to be. There's no base.
Just pretty into a clause.
Have you reviewed your review? Yes. I reviewed my review. It's been quite a lot of weeks and months and a lot of other cars reviewed and driven since I did this.
And how many this being land cruiser, of course, how many land cruisers did you cruise the land in? Are we counting Lexus GXs?
How many GXs did you drive to which ones? Both of the current generation. So there's more than one current generation GX.
Well, I know I drove two different cars that better. So, oh, they're the identical cars. Not identical, different specs, so different suspension. Okay, so by way of background, we thought it would be a great idea to do an icons on the land cruiser, which is, of course, an icon. So, you're.
And that we're getting to look behind the curtain to see how Jason selects the subjects. It was late in the season. It was like, you know, late November, we're like, yeah, we have to get an episode out.
And we were exhausted and we had done a lot of other things and we're like, so you're like, why not make it extra work? Let's just go all the way to Utah in the middle of winter and have like so many vehicles.
Well, the thing about the so many vehicles is there were a lot of vehicles in this, but there was also, we had the help of the Toyota Land Cruiser, the Land Cruiser Heritage Museum, which is not part of Toyota.
Those guys were genuinely amazing. They were like, whatever you need, like I gave them a list of cars of trucks. And they're like, well, the trucks in the museum are kind of tough to get in and out. So, just let us know of foreign advance. I gave them a list of like, I don't know, you know, between the sort of management of the museum, like, we own all of those.
So we'll just give you our cars and we have a friend that owns this one and blah, blah, blah. Here are your car plunge to do whatever they were. I know cars are supposed to be about cars, but they really what what I love, no, not almost as much because I hate people.
One of the things that's nice about the car community is people and helping each other and community and that Land Cruiser community there was amazing.
So, if you're ever in Salt Lake, go see the museum, the number of trucks in there is insane. Anyway, we could see on the screen, which was pretty cool.
And it wasn't, that was, well, what you saw on the screen, that big long pan back was the one aisle, of course. There's another one, so there's 50% more cars than that on the one side. And then there's an entire another room full of cars. It's huge.
So, yeah, we said, okay, well, if we can shoot at the Land Cruiser Heritage Museum and we have their help getting the old cars, this will be relatively easy.
So, Paul Toyota and I ask for a Land Cruiser. And I'm like, just please give me the one with the Heritage Front end on it because I love circle lights.
Because I grew up, so I grew up in a FJ60 US, spec 60 that we wound up moving to Germany with. That didn't last all that long. Once my dad was on the Autobahn and was like in the 1960s, in 1940s, Chevy.
Outer, 1920s.
20s.
1927, I believe, was the stove bolt 6 where that engine sort of felt like.
So, did you sell it in Germany?
It was about an Audi 90, 20 valve, Quantro, which was one of the fastest cars, fastest to dance you could buy.
Now that he was driving on the Autobahn, he needed...
Yeah, it was no longer about equipment.
I think I've told the story. He would just drag our neighbors up the hill in New York when they were all these Yuppie assholes in their BMWs.
And he would just kind of laugh and make fun of them and just put a tow rope and drag them up the hill.
It was no longer about that. It was about, who can I pass?
I don't know about that.
It was like the 2220 horsepower at that time when I stayed.
I don't know, there was 170.
Oh, what?
Oh, it wasn't a turbo.
They were not turbos.
Yeah, no, it wasn't a turbo, but it did 134 miles an hour or something when, you know, in 1991, won a lot of cars, didn't.
And the Land Cruiser could barely hit 70.
I mean, it would cruise at 70, but 75 was foot on the floor for quite a long time.
Anyway, the outer limit.
So the heritage front end slash the 1958 package front end, the round headlight really reminded me of that truck.
So I get this thing and I'm so excited and all I know about the New Land Cruiser is it's smaller and cheaper.
And I immediately delve into the specs after I asked Toyota for the truck and we had a delivery date set.
And I'm like, wait a second, it's smaller.
It's actually bigger than the last truck.
Then the 200 series.
Then the 200 series.
So this new one's called the 250 series.
And so inside baseball, we'll get to it in a second, but the Land Cruiser station wagon lineage, which is one of three big branches of the Land Cruiser family tree, is the Land Cruiser wheel, think of in the US.
And that started with technically the 55 series, which was around for a while, but didn't sell well.
But then the 60 that I sort of grew up in, 60 gave way to 80, gave way to 100, then 200, now 300.
The 300 series Land Cruiser is only for sale in America as a Lexus LX 600, and now 700 each.
And then one of the other branches that's around the world is the Prado branch.
And the Prado is the sort of lighter duty cars, which are typically smaller and less heavy duty.
They're sort of more on road focused, although they're still very much live axles, you know, a lot of, you know, off roady stuff.
And the new Land Cruiser is a 250, which is on the Prado lineage, so it's not a full Land Cruiser, the LX is.
But I start looking into this, and I was like, wait, 112 inch wheelbase. No, one of, yeah, 112.
Like, that's the same as the old car. And I start taking in the fucking things bigger than the last Land Cruiser.
And that really upset me because I went back, and I looked and sure enough, Motor Trend calls it downsized.
And car driver called it smaller. And like every YouTuber in the world is like, it's smaller.
You have one job, guys, get that back straight.
So that, I thought, that's really strange.
And where did that misinformation originate? Is that a Toyota thing, or is that a thing because it's based on a Prado, so everyone assumes it's smaller?
Well, Toyota never said it was based on a Prado, right? Toyota never talked about that in the US.
And I'm certain that they, I'm not certain. I would bet good money that Toyota never said it was smaller.
Yeah, that doesn't be who they're going to do that. They're not going to make a factual mistake.
The car feels so much smaller, and I think that's where it came from.
Like, I would have genuinely, when you get in it, you think it's two full sizes smaller than the last one, because the last one was behemoth.
And what is really interesting is now when you look at the specs in wheelbase, length with and height, it's bigger or identical.
I think it's one tenth of an inch narrower than the old car.
It's the same size as the old truck. And so is the LX.
So that was my first like, wait, what is going on here? The LX.
So the Lexus GX and LX are now the same size.
But they're not, because when you look at the, if you look from the back of the car and you look at the tumble home, what Toyota has done is make the cars have the same track and the same width.
But the greenhouse is a lot narrower. So what they move the seats closer together and you can see that reflected in all of the interior measurements of shoulder width and everything else.
So they made a scrunched feeling interior by just bringing the glass in, basically, up top.
Which is a, is the tumble home angled or is it have hips?
It's got hip. It's got big hips. And that's the thing is, so the cockpit's narrower than the car.
This is like that thing, like an old 911, like old cars are like this.
Yeah. Jag XJ 6 is where there's this thickness to the lower body.
Or the last Jag XJ, which was actually an XF underneath.
And so what they did was give it big hips, but kept the glass.
So you know, that car had those weird blacked out seat pillars.
That was to mask the fact that the greenhouse of the car was a full size and a half narrower than the underside of the car.
I mean, that's an XJ trait since the beginning.
XJs have always had narrower green houses than the rest of the car.
And big hips. Which you kind of want.
But when you look at the Land Cruiser and the new GX, you see they have really narrow greenhouse and then wide hips and then fender flares on top of that.
And so the interior of the car feels way smaller and is way smaller than an LX, even though the exterior dimensions are the same.
So that I was like, what TF is Toyota doing? Like I'm very confused by this.
I like the way it looked, but I just kept thinking like this is a RAV4.
This kind of just looks like a butched up RAV4.
Do you feel that way about a four runner?
The new one? Or previously?
Like the brand new one?
The brand new one?
No, there's a brand new one.
There's a brand new one that you probably haven't seen on the road yet.
But there's, which is also a 250 series, they're all the same truck now.
But no, I always felt like a four runner and the Land Cruiser looked.
Butch.
Yes.
Like they looked big and bulky and there was no mistaking it for a family lineage that had anything to do with RAV4.
That's right.
Flagship.
It just looked like this is a real deal body on frame SUV.
And the new one is real deal body on frame SUV.
So the first one that I got from Toyota had the square headlights.
And I just didn't like it the way it looks.
I was like, okay, it feels really small and cheap in here.
And it was $70,000 the one that I had.
And I started driving it around and immediately dismissed it.
Like we're done.
The first notes that I wrote is Plano, we have a problem.
Because Plano being the headquarters of Toyota in the USA.
I'm a big fan of four cylinders.
Four cylinders done well are amazing.
They're responsive and they're however this is the worst four cylinder in the currently on the market in the US.
So what Toyota did was put this turbocharged 2.4 liter four cylinder with a hyper system in it.
And so what else is it used in if anything?
Tacoma.
The turbo two fours.
Without the hyper system.
Without the hyper system.
And it's rude.
I mean, it is really genuinely a rude sounding engine.
I described in the video a sounding broken.
And I did actually open the hood at one point to see what the hell was going on.
Because even at idle, it's got some weird sort of random clicking sounds and banging sounds that are from fuel pump.
And I press your fuel pump up there and then injectors.
And you hear it bouncing off like tunnel walls and other cars.
And it just sounds broken.
But the biggest issue is that it's a ten speed, eight speed automatic eight speed automatic.
And it keeps it in this like 20 under 25 hundred rpm rev range.
It's got an electric motor that really helps it out.
It's got a lot of torque and keeps the engine revs low.
And oh my god, it literally excites the steering column.
So there's a...
How's that from perceived quality?
Not good in a $70,000 truck.
Not coming from a V8 Land Cruiser, right?
So Land Cruiser's were always before the V8s.
We're always slow as shit, right?
And they were they were panned in the press for being unrefined.
That six-cylinder was unrefined.
And you know, the car was stressed at 80 miles an hour.
Lowered before the 24 valve.
Imagine the 24 valve six was...
Was better, yeah, fair point.
But no one knew what was coming.
I mean, you know, an unrefined straight six out of an FJ 40 or something
was a Rolls Royce engine compared to today's high compression.
Modern engines are just not smooth.
And so there's a hill that separates Marin County and San Francisco
that as you're going south towards the Golden Gate Bridge from Marin,
it's called the Waldo Grade.
And it's a 55 zone and it's a pretty big cleanse for 500 feet climb.
Probably more, I don't know.
But like something like Beatrice,
that car is foot on the floor in fifth gear at 70 miles an hour to maintain speed.
It's a big grade.
The Land Cruiser downshifted one gear or two gears and just stayed at like 1900 RPM,
but buzzed my hands to the point where the first time I did this,
I knocked it into a lower gear.
I'm like, are you serious right now?
And I thought, surely this has to be just this one car, right?
I mean, like there's no way this passed.
Like there's something wrong with this car.
So, I just, I did not care for the way it drove.
I don't, didn't care for the ride quality.
I didn't care for any of it.
And it's not terrible, I mean, honest.
But I just thought, no, no, no, no, no.
I remember what that 200 was like.
That was like flagship.
Like the reason that the LX could exist is the Land Cruiser was so good
they could slap a Lexus badge on it.
And it was just a terrible task.
Yeah, it was believable.
And so then I got home and I started doing my sort of normal test.
I was sitting at the back seat and I'm like, wait a second,
this doesn't feel any bigger than the golf.
And so I jump out of it and jump out of my e-golf.
And I'm like, it's not.
Like it's got the same size back seat as a golf.
Okay.
Remembering that it's still the same size as the old 200,
which was fucking enormous inside.
And then I opened the trunk of the hatch.
And there's a four inch high or more than that.
I think it's more than four inch high battery sitting on top of the trunk floor.
And there's no third row.
And so I realized that the cargo box is only about as tall as the golfs.
It's actually, I think it was less tall than the golfs.
And it's a little bit bigger.
But we're going from a subcompact hatch to a full size truck here.
And I don't think it could fit anything that I couldn't fit in the golf.
And I'm like, yeah, I wise.
What the fuck is going on?
And where's the third row?
So I started just doing a lot of research on specs and whatever.
And I called to it.
And so I called Anthony Esposito.
And I'm like, I think we have a problem.
Like I'm not doing icons on the score.
Like I don't like shitting on cars anyway.
It's not public forums especially.
It's just not as fun as you think it is, right?
You know, you're hurting people and you're hurting companies that are made of people.
And I don't like that.
And so I called to it.
And I'm like, help.
Can I have a GX?
And typically the answer to that question would be no.
Because you know, Toyota, like most companies, their divisions are separated from one another.
And the PR people from one brand aren't going to let you, like aren't going to help you with their competitor brand.
Toyota's PR department, the people that I deal with are like amazing.
And I'm like, yeah, what do you need?
I'm like, GX, any GX, don't care.
And this person was like, yeah, okay.
I know what's going on.
And I'm like, really?
And I'm like, I just want to experience the GX because we have a little bit of a problem.
And a GX showed up that day.
Same day, which tells me like, okay, Toyota knows what's going on.
It pulls up.
There's a fleet management company.
The guy that pulls up, parks them right next to each other.
And I have a picture of this.
And I start chatting with him.
And he's like, oh man, wow, that GX is so good.
And they're not supposed to ever say anything bad about any car.
But I'm like, tell me what he's like, there's just no contest between the two cars.
And I'm like, okay, I haven't even gotten the GX yet before.
And he's like, I'm, you know, kind of bummed that I have to get back in the line course.
And I'm like, you know the same car, right?
And he was like, no, no, they're different.
That's the GX. That's a different lineage.
That's like, you know, the old, the old GX.
And I'm like, no, look at them.
Like, look closely at the two cars.
They're identical.
And he's like, oh yeah, I guess the doors are similar.
The doors are interchangeable.
He had no idea. And this is a person who had spent a lot of time in both trucks.
They look that much different from each other.
And then I drove it.
I was like, no wonder he didn't think they were the same car.
So these two cars were $1,200 apart.
It was a fairly base GX and a fairly well-loaded land cruiser.
And honestly, the interior felt $10,000 apart.
And that V6, so the GX is the same truck, but is it 8 as a 10-speed auto?
With the V6 instead of a hybrid 4.
Instead of a hybrid 4 with the 8-speed.
Am I getting these backwards?
Yeah, no, the toy does the new 8-speed. The Lexus is the old 10.
And I never liked that Lexus transmission.
It's not smooth. It just doesn't particularly care for it.
But it keeps that V6 out of its terrible reverence.
The V6, same family of engines as the 4-cylinder.
So probably the same pistons and all the same sort of design.
Terrible. Also one of the rudest, coarsest V6s on the market.
But of course, V6 has got nothing on a really bad 4-cylinder, first of all.
And this thing is in silent and normal driving in that 2,000 RPM window
where the 4-cylinder is literally buzzing your hands like a vibrator.
You can't even hear this thing run.
Like it doesn't even exist.
The suspension tuning was totally different.
The thing floated over everything with just the right amount of float.
And the interior just felt better.
Aside from a couple little niggles with UX stuff that I just...
Like I couldn't find a trip odometer or MPG on the Lexus.
Like weird stuff like that.
Night and day difference.
Third row?
That was the other thing.
And I get in the back.
And not only does the Lexus have a third row seat, but folded.
The third row seat was four...
The cargo floor was four inches lower than the Toyota's was.
Because there's no battery.
Because there's no battery there.
Because there's no battery there.
So I'm like, wait a second.
So I get four inches more cargo space and a third row.
So, you know, and a much better powertrain.
And it's...
What did you say?
$1,200 more?
It was $1,200 difference.
And they were comparably equipped.
I mean, there were a couple things the Toyota had like electronically
disconnectable sway bars, which let's be honest here.
No one's using.
But basically same stuff.
The stereos in the car like the Lexus was way better.
Like it was just...
Everything was better.
And I thought, all right.
So then I called Toyota.
And I was like, can I and Utah have both cars?
Plus an LX?
And there was no LX.
There was nothing available in the fleet, but they did give me both cars.
And that allowed me to write this script on this, which was...
Well, you know, if you haven't seen the icons yet, I made the title...
How did Toyota get the throng or how Toyota got the...
Landcars are so wrong.
Because it's all choices that were not made in the Lexus.
That GX right after we were done filming,
Motor One declares it the SUV of the year
and possibly the best SUV of all time.
Not quite going that far.
But the thing's spectacular.
And so it was a really interesting...
Exercise in brand engineering.
Well, I mean, you wonder, like did Toyota put the force owner in
because the Lexus had to be more better?
Or did they put it in because they needed the fuel economy credits
for cafe?
Or do customers demand better city fuel economy?
I don't know.
All I know is if you're going to do a force owner,
like even defender.
Like the defender has a two liter force owner as an option.
It's fine.
It's completely, not defender.
Yeah.
Hold on.
Why am I losing...
Why am I having a stroke?
Am I blinking?
Yes, you are.
Yeah, like Land Rover's two liter force owner is just...
Goes away.
You don't even notice it.
And your foot on which you want.
Because nobody wants to hear force owner noises
and something that's supposed to be powerful and effortless.
Yeah.
So we get to Utah.
And I got to drive all of the old stuff, which was...
Stuff I had never done.
So the specs were a little bit different on those cars.
The Lexus was the Overtrail Plus,
which is literally the absolute fullest, highest,
fullest spec, highest most expensive GX you can buy.
And the Land Cruiser we had was more base.
And so it skewed the whole thing a little bit in a way that I didn't like.
Plus the Overtrail Plus doesn't have a rear seat.
So we couldn't show.
We showed the height difference, but we couldn't show it when there's a seat in place.
So the script got a little bit wonky once we were there on the ground.
But it was just everyone, Anthony Espicito, drove the Land Cruiser first.
And he's like, yeah, I don't like it.
It's not great.
Like, it's not that bad.
And then he...
That night...
So we drove to the shoot location.
We were sight scouting, and then that night drove the GX back.
And he is not even out of the car.
The door swings open.
And he goes, you would have to be a fucking idiot to buy that Land Cruiser.
And we're right in front of Land Cruiser people.
And we're like...
Shit.
And one of the guys that we worked with was like, yeah, no, I just bought a 250.
And I'm like, oh, shit, we offended him.
But of course, I bought the GX because, you know...
So even, you know, sort of word has gotten out in the Land Cruiser community.
Well, at least there is a solution, because so often when there's something that's shitty
that is just delivered to you by the manufacturer, like, man, they got it so close,
it would have been amazing if they did it.
And it's not an if they did it.
They did it.
I mean, I don't actually, you know, the faithful say, well, the thing needs a V8.
Yeah, fine.
You know, I'm here for that.
Like, that's okay.
But actually, the 6 is good enough.
It's terribly unrefined for a modern car.
The 4 feels super zippy and quick off the line.
Like, you don't really notice the lag because the electric motor fills in for it.
And then you go to make a pass.
Like, we have one shot.
That one up in the episode.
You can watch the speedometer just basically stop at, like, 68.
Like, the thing is so fucking slow at the top of the rev range because the electric motor is now out of its operating band.
So it fills in, it's like torque fill and then download and then nobody home.
Whereas the V6 just keeps pulling and pulling.
And they're 23 horsepower apart from each other.
But the Lexus is a 1.6 seconds quicker to 60.
And by the way, that's the area where the Toyota does well because it's got all that off the line grunt.
The difference, you floor the two of them at 60.
And honestly, if you were in the GX, I don't think you'd even know, be able to tell if the Land Cruiser driver had hit the gas or not.
Like, it's that difference.
That much of a difference.
So yeah, I then were like, but once we see, like, if there's a solution, I can make this episode work.
And I agree with Anthony, though, I don't want to say you'd have to be an idiot to buy Land Cruiser,
but I will say I'm not sure I could come up with any reasonable use case that the Land Cruiser makes.
Certainly not makes more sense than the GX, but makes any sense at all compared to the, you know, like it's not a plug-in.
It's not just looking here for.
I mean, if city fuel economy is better for you, but I'm sorry, if you live in a city, you can have a 200 inch long car without a third row and no cargo capacity.
I'm like, come on.
It just doesn't, the whole package doesn't, doesn't make sense.
Plus the way that GX looks, did you see that thing?
I saw it, yeah.
Did it not like make you, your lines do?
No, I mean, I was just really delighted by the fascia of the Land Cruiser and I was disappointed the Lexus didn't have that.
Because the, the front headlights.
Yeah.
I also wanted a defender.
Another inside thing, we were going to get a Land Rover because it looks like the daytime running lights are identical, but we couldn't go on.
Yeah.
We just ran out of, we ran out of bodies to move cars around.
But the Land Cruiser shows, so I went in the episode, I will go into the Land Cruiser story, which, you know, I, again, grew up in one.
Even I don't think I realized how many different Land Cruiser models.
Right.
And then the origin, you mentioned the Jeep because the, the J and BJ and what FJ all stands for Jeep.
Do you know what?
I was surprised it didn't make it in the episode if you did come across this, but maybe you didn't.
I learned this from my dad.
You know, maybe I should fact check it in fact because I learned it from my dad.
You know what Jeep stands for?
Yes.
The word Jeep is from another abbreviation of.
Yes.
It's a G.
It's a G word.
It didn't make it in the episode.
GP.
General purpose.
Yeah, general purpose.
Yeah, and then that became Jeep.
Yeah.
So, okay, so all Land Cruisers have a chassis number like a chassis code.
They all have J in them.
So the way they work, the way the chassis codes work is you have engine code first.
So engine family, then J for Jeep, and then a serious number.
And so the original Land Cruiser started as the BJ.
Of course, one of my friends points out as is so often the case that all started with the BJ.
It's like, oh God.
So, you know who that was.
You might not.
It's actually an old friend from Pennsylvania who just gave you a laugh.
But actually it started from the US military.
Right?
So the US military needed it.
Which is where the Land Rover started too.
Did it?
Because I was not able to verify that.
So the story with the Land Rover Jeep origin was that Rover cars wanted to make cars.
And in order to do that, you needed steel and steel was still controlled by the government.
And you were able to get steel if you got it allocated to you by the government because you had exported something.
Because the UK had spent all of its money waging war.
And so they were really looking to sell things overseas so they could get foreign currency.
So you needed to be able to, you needed to have a record of exporting things in order to get steel to make cars.
And so Land Rover was like, what can we make to export that we can sell right now so we can get steel to make cars.
And they said, let's make a small aluminum utility vehicle.
And this was inspired.
Well, Spencer Wilkes who designed the Land Rover had a Jeep on his farm in Angle Sea, which was a military Jeep from the US.
That was left over from World War II.
This is like 1946-47.
And he was like, maybe we should just make a thing like this that we can sell to people as they're rebuilding Europe.
That's not that steel intensive.
And so the Jeep did inspire the creation of the Land Rover.
So why was it aluminium?
Because they didn't get steel.
They needed so that what can we make something out of not steel to sell so that we can get steel to make cars?
That's cool, but it was never used by military, right?
The Land Rover?
Never US, obviously.
Never US.
He would have lost every war.
I mean, the British certainly used it from military, I mean, it was designed and it came out in 1948 in Amsterdam.
So it was used for military purposes afterwards.
So it was inspired because the designer of the Land Rover owned a Jeep, a US Jeep.
A US Jeep from World War II that he would drive around his farm in.
So yeah, so I love this.
By the way, Land Cruiser was very clearly.
I'd said that.
It was just what word could be sound with sound with all that.
I think he wanted the prestige.
No, it was not the procedure.
Whatever, the sort of project.
The synonym for Rover.
And other words.
The synonym for Rover.
Because he wanted it to sound very much like Land Rover.
Yeah, so the US military needed locally produced.
The US military had still occupied Japan after World War II, Korean War breaks out.
The US government sends a sort of memo out to Japanese car manufacturers and said,
hey, will somebody build us a Jeep?
Mitsubishi won the contract with, they were just building a Willis CJ.
And what they called the patrol or that came along later?
I don't think it was the patrol.
I think it was Nissan anyway.
Yes.
Good point.
It was just a Jeep.
But some of them had Mitsubishi logos on them, some didn't, from what I saw.
I'm not an expert on that.
But Toyota did create this BJ.
And the BJ was quite different actually.
It was bigger than the Jeep.
It's substantially bigger and way tougher.
And what they thought was that the plan was keep it simple, right?
This is Toyota's philosophy always.
Right.
So no low range.
So it didn't need it.
So the motor that they had ready to go was this enormous 3.437.
It was a very big straight six.
So they had to Toyota had been building the stove bolt.
The General Motors in line six for years under license.
And then they developed their own, they just updated it basically.
And that's the B series.
So B plus J for Jeep.
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So they made the car, they engineered it.
There was so much low in torque from the straight six when everything else used tiny little four cylinders.
That they're like, we don't even need a low range, which makes it therefore simpler and less shit to break.
Less shit to break.
I mean, and it was all redundant, amazingly redundant stuff.
Like if the starter solenoid broke, there was a manual, like a manual way to start the car.
Like it was just really, really well thought out.
And they did a couple of things.
I mean, Land Rover did that too for different reasons.
For different reasons.
Thank you.
But serviceability on longevity was really it.
And their thought was like, it doesn't need to get you to the battlefield.
It just really does need to get you home.
And so they kept it super simple.
They did a bunch of publicity stunts.
One was they tried to climb.
Okay, this is months ago now.
Oh, the stairs.
The stairs.
And it's hilarious.
I wish we would have.
It just artistically didn't work in the video.
But there's a picture of this ridiculous, ridiculously steep stone staircase
with a handrail right in the middle of it.
And apparently they went to go do this stunt.
And we're like, ah, fuck.
There's somebody put it around.
So they drove up on Fuji instead.
I mean, the thing climbed higher than any other truck it ever had.
So they marketed it as the Toyota hyphen Jeep BJ.
And then Willis Overland sued them.
Or trademarked the name Jeep with a capital J as a brand.
And then called Toyota.
And was like, hey, you got to drop this.
So that's when they came up with the name spelled R-A-N-D-O-K-U-R-U-Z-A.
Rando Kurusa, which I love seeing.
You know, I love languages and I love accents.
So they came up with the name Rando Kurusa.
Kurusa.
And that was it.
BJ became FJ eventually.
I thought you were going to say HJ.
Never mind.
HJ is often before BJ.
Yes.
That's true.
It's confusingly because it's not alphabetized.
But such is life.
Not out of time.
We're done here.
And then they did a big update to the engine,
giving it a couple of extra bearings.
And it became the F series.
And that engine was in production for about two million years.
Yeah, let's see.
Probably 91 or something like that was the last year of the.
I have.
I have.
Because that's the 24 valve engine was supposed to be ready
when the 80 series came out.
It wasn't quite done in time.
So the first two years of the 80 series,
they had the old engine.
That series.
Yeah.
That I have.
I think the script was 3,400 words.
And I have 12,000 words with the notes.
Yeah.
I mean, there's so much to this story.
I know.
Videos are always like this where you're just like,
man, there's so much cool stuff you want to include.
And you just have to decide what.
The crazy thing to me, though, is that.
And I point this out like in night.
So 1957 is the year the first land cruiser arrived in America,
1958 model year.
So that's why we have a 58 heritage edition and, you know,
blah, blah, blah.
But at that point, the number I said it in the episode,
I think it was 7,000 cars or something with the grand total
of all vehicles exported out of Japan.
The Japanese car industry was non-existent.
Yeah.
But a third of those cars were already 40 series.
I don't think they were 40s yet.
I think they were FJ 20s.
So BJ became 20, which became 40.
And the 40 series was in production for 40 years.
And that's the sort of Jeep.
Think of that as the Wrangler.
Yeah.
And that, I mean, it won every comparison test I could find on it.
I mean, it was just basically indestructible.
And, okay, I did get a little bit of shit in the comments
about using the word indestructible.
Nothing is indestructible.
But why did people, you don't literally mean it's indestructible?
Correct.
I don't literally mean it.
But nobody ever, the word indestructible
should never appear in any automotive journalism
and be construed literally because every vehicle can be destructible.
Everything can be destructed.
Look, we've destroyed planet Earth.
Yes.
There you go.
Come on.
Some people might deny that that's happening.
But yes, people will fight about anything.
Okay.
But yeah, no, they were just incredibly tough.
You're elevating discourse.
You're getting people to argue about semantics instead of, like,
politics or positionality.
So that's a, well, wind progress.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So 40 series was, you know, the sort of car that cemented.
And it was very, very basic stuff.
Leaf springs, solid axles, just, but really tough.
And they, Toyota Commissioned a bunch of studies.
Actually, it wasn't Toyota.
It was one of the off-road magazines that did a user study.
And more than half of Land Cruiser owners in America used them solely for off-roading
and recreation.
These were not daily drivers.
What, this is like in the 60s?
This is, this must have been in the 60s.
Yeah, because 58, the car came out.
That makes sense philosophically because the wagon air came out like 1964.
None of that had happened.
Yeah.
And so the, that survey makes sense to have occurred before the sort of transition
of these things becoming sort of used on the street with the wagon air,
the Bronco and the Range Rover.
Yeah.
They all happened because these companies...
And the Scout.
Yeah, Scout, especially.
Realized that if all you have to do is put a station wagon body onto a chassis of a...
They were called off-roaders, right?
Yeah.
Or they were called four wheel drive.
Yeah.
Which you're envisioning something that's shaped like a Wrangler or Jeep or, you know,
a 240 series or a 240 series or a Defender 90 with no roof on it.
And where Toyota's problem started with this whole lineage, of course,
is when, you know, when, when Jeep came out with their big station wagon body car
and all these other cars came out of the wagon air, they came up with a new name for it.
Right.
And Toyota didn't.
Yeah.
Toyota just called it the Land Cruiser and sold 40 and 55 side by side.
55 is now nicknamed the Iron Pig.
It is not a pretty vehicle.
It is...
You've probably never even seen...
No, I know it looks like a person, right?
It's got the tapering hood and the squared fenders, but it's a station wagon body.
Yeah.
And it was for sale, I think, for eight years, and it did not do well.
And I can see why.
It was just awkward looking.
Yeah.
It doesn't have the refinement of the aesthetic, which is this sort of blocky, unitary looking look
of a Bronco or a Range Rover or a Scout.
Well, and that would make sense because it wasn't designed by a designer.
It was done by the engineers in the same way I guess the G-Wagon was,
but obviously someone with an aesthetic eye.
And so it all changed in 1981.
The 60 series came out.
So 60 was available.
Like all these series, there are different variants.
There's a 60.
There's a 61.
61 is a high roof one.
There's a 62.
There's whatever.
So in the US, it was sold as an FJ60.
So F series straight six.
4.2.
Is this the one you incorporated?
The one I grew up in.
And then they did a facelift where I got four rectangular headlights.
Which I did.
Yeah, I never went that online.
I like...
It really looks quite a bit like a Range Rover.
60.
Trivia first car I drove with a stick shift.
My dad was an FJ60.
My dad bet me that I couldn't even back it out of the driveway.
And I said, I'll drive into town.
And he was like, what?
Are you kidding it's a stick shift, Jason?
And I'm like, I'll drive into town.
50 bucks.
He's never paid me the 50 bucks.
My dad, you know me, 50 bucks.
You recovered it with interest subsequently.
With the Shorako purchase.
Yeah, no.
So I mean, that was what I grew up in.
And it was just bare bones by today's standards.
But it was a luxury.
It was a Range Rover.
There we go.
Another one.
Land Rover comes out with Range Rover.
A whole new lineage of cars.
To indicate to you that it's really intended to have a very different...
It's a different mission in purpose.
I mean, who names the same product?
Which was somewhat awkward because the Range Rover was made by Land Rover.
Yeah.
That was a marketing...
Like a naming screw up.
Like you shouldn't do that.
It's very confusing.
But we are used to it now.
We know what it means.
Mostly.
I don't think that most people realize that like a Range Rover.
Well, yeah.
The Range Rover has proliferated downmark in a way that now there's the evoke and the support.
So what's the difference between a Range Rover Sport and a Discovery and a Discovery and an evoke and a this.
I can't...
I mean, half the time I can't...
Range Rover Sport and evoke.
I'm good at discovery.
Less clear to me now.
And then you are...
The car.
The car is actually a Jaguar.
The Jaguar.
The Jaguar.
That confused me greatly.
But, I mean, Jeep is done an amazing job.
So we think, all right, Compass.
You know, that...
Comey, Pissie one.
Come on.
You can even laugh.
You know, we know that Wrangler is the real Jeep, so to speak.
That's the Jeep.
That's the Cherokee.
Not the real Jeep, but, you know, the progenitor of that sort of thing.
Yes, the origin of the...
Right.
And then you have, you know, a Cherokee.
You have a Grand Cherokee.
You have a Wagonier.
You have all these different products that have their own brand identities but fall under Jeep.
And Toyota just completely fucked that up.
Yeah.
Sure.
And so we bought Proto, kind of, does it?
Oh, Markov's Proto here.
What happened was...
Which one was it?
70.
You know, there was no 70.
70 was...
Yeah, there was a 70 series, Land Rover, that replaced the 40.
Land Rover.
Oh, my God.
Sorry, see what I mean?
So, yeah, 40 was the Wrangler, right?
The original Wrangler, replaced in the 1993...
In the 1990s, with a 70 series.
Same idea.
Like, okay, this is Wrangler Gen 2, think of it that way.
And it was just brutal on the road, right?
Leaf Springs...
Still actual...
Yeah.
And so what...
The original Land Rover got rid of Leaf Springs in 1984.
So the thing about the...
So when we think of, you know, Land Cruiser, these are stealth-wealth rich people vehicles, right?
Yes.
The 40 series was used in, like, both military and civilian applications but really were there were no roads.
Yes, you see them in UN livery.
Exactly.
You see them being used on both sides.
You see the terrorists in UN and the Allies all using them.
Yep.
And so they had to be just tough as nails.
And any concession to off-road durability and usability was just never gonna happen.
So what Toyota did was wisely split the 70 series into the Heavy Duty, which is the traditional Wrangler stuff,
and then the light duty stuff.
Light duty, I need to stress, is not light duty.
Right.
It's less heavy duty, right?
And so the first thing that happened was they gave...
They put coil springs in the front of the first light duty 70 series.
That...
Spin off from the Wrangler tree.
It's right eventually it became the GX here.
Well, it became Proto, right?
Yes, which is a GX.
And the only Proto that's ever been sold here as a Toyota was the FJ Cruiser.
The FJ Cruiser was actually a Proto.
Right.
And it was sold as a Toyota.
Correct.
But it was sold as a Lexus for decades.
Yeah, as a GX.
We've had two generations of GX and they were both Proto's on that.
They were 150's.
One...
Almost 120, almost 50?
I don't remember.
So the Proto lineage went 70, 90, 120, 150, and now 250.
And these are lighter duty.
And eventually they inherited, so they went from leaf springs to coil springs,
and then independent suspension.
Independent suspension.
Right.
And then the sort of Land Cruiser faithful would be like,
Oh, it's just a Proto.
It's just a Proto.
But eventually all that stuff has trickled down to the...
To the real sort of stuff, as it's proven, it's worth off road.
Yes.
As you make it possible to achieve the same things off road with independent suspension.
Yeah.
And so this Proto lineage is massive.
I mean, the number of cars on this...
The number of series and updates and whatever is just enormous.
We've just never gotten them in the U.S.
And so to wrap my head around where the hell this car fits in,
you sort of have to really start thinking like,
what the hell's the difference?
And I have a picture that one had been the video of me between 270 series.
One was a Proto and one wasn't.
And the entire shoot, Anthony could not tell the difference between the two of them.
And strangely, one of them has a tapered...
So the Fenders are sort of the same.
And then one is a tapered sort of bonnet that sits above it,
with lights that are sitting on top.
And the tapered bonnet is the non Proto.
And the full width one is the Proto.
And then the cars are identical from the A-pillar back.
They're identical.
But there's this tiny little difference up front when you look underneath.
One has coil springs, one has leaf springs.
But you can't tell that from the top of the car.
So it's just very confusing.
Same thing with this Land Cruiser.
So this Land Cruiser is a J250.
I don't remember the engine code.
It's something J250.
It's an J250.
Garbage.
You should force on or should V6, but less shit V6.
And the overtrail plus Lexus that we had off-road actually has the 8-inch diff
instead of the 7-inch diff or whatever that the other Proto's have.
So it's all a grab bag of like, what the hell's underneath it?
And which one gets this diff and which one's heavier duty than that?
They're all heavy duty, right?
But the reason the Lexus can tow more is it's got a more displacement, you know,
and also this bigger ring gear on the diff.
That diff is the same as the 300's, I think.
Because it's a small and a big.
So is that GX now still a Proto?
Because it's a Proto that happens to ride on basically the same platform as the 300.
I'm very glad.
I never watched Dr. Miro stuff.
Typically, no, zero-offensive.
Like, I just don't have time to sit and watch stuff.
But I happened to cross his Land Cruiser thing the day before our video was going live.
So it's done, it's edited, whatever.
And I'm really glad I didn't see this earlier.
But I'm glad I watched it.
He did a really great like video on why he doesn't like the Land Cruiser.
And it was everything I said, which was kind of reassuring right before the video was live.
Because of course I'm nervous.
Like, oh god, I hope I don't get it wrong because I slam this car pretty substantially.
But Doug did say one other thing.
And he said that I left out.
And it's a really good point.
He's a Land Cruiser guy.
He's owned a bunch of Land Cruiser.
To him, one of the other defining characteristics of Land Cruiser was that it was the biggest, baddest, toughest flagship period.
And when you saw Land Cruiser, you know top of the line.
And the problem now is the Tundra rides on the same platform as the Land Cruiser.
It's also a 300.
It's a 250, 300.
It's all the same shit.
And all of them are in.
He's like, that's now the flagship.
But hold on, the name Land Cruiser tells me or did or has told me for a long time.
This is the biggest, baddest, toughest.
I thought that was a really good point.
Damn it.
I should have put that in the video.
But we were taught that Land Cruiser means something in Toyota just sort of went a little bit away from that.
And then the price is just.
Hopefully it's temporary.
And it's nice to know that the 300 is available with a Lexus badge still in North America.
In North America.
Yeah, you can get the real full-size, full fat, even though they're all the same size.
Land Cruiser as a Lexus.
Yeah, Stealthwell's is a really great way to put it.
It's the quintessential.
The place you would see it is winery owners drive around in it, right?
Because they're wealthy and they own land in very valuable places and they're making wine.
It's all very bougie, but they are sort of farmers sort of also.
That image that they want to project, it's a winery owner, right?
It's old money is kind of the Land Cruiser vibe.
It's just somebody who doesn't really want to show off, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, we didn't have vineyards where I grew up.
We didn't have wineries where I grew up.
But that's very typical here in, like, if you go into Napa or something like that,
that's like a typical winery owner vehicle, is it?
Over-range lovers?
Yes, because it's more sort of, I'm of the earth, I'm relatable, I'm a farmer, you know.
As you're driving by your fields with people harvesting in them, I don't know.
That's just the vibe.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Look, so the other cool thing for me, I never driven a 40 series.
It is a ox cart exactly as you expect, fair enough.
Then I drove a 60.
So the 60 series that we had was a 61, a high-roof, right-hand drive.
And it's the one of the diesel that, like, is the Holy Grail Diesel.
It's a fully mechanical, not a no-nothing electronic diesel at all.
And the car is actually not manual, which I loved.
Not as bad as I expected it to be.
Like, on the road, it was perfectly lovely.
Like, it was happy to cruise at 60 miles an hour, but 40 was not.
60 miles an hour was like...
The outer limit of reentry.
And it wasn't like that it couldn't go faster.
It was that...
It's so wobbly and so directionally unstable.
That even felt like it was going around.
I could just roll it.
Like, I just thought I could just roll it.
So I just kind of kept it to 45.50 on a, you know, this big wide,
two-lane dead straight road that we were filming near.
Like, when we had to transport between locations.
I'm like, no, that's it, 45 done.
With a 60, I could do bus.
Yeah, exactly.
If I could do 60 miles an hour, then it was, you know, kind of...
Any more than that, you know, you hear the engine moving around.
But the 80, which is a car that I had never really...
Oh!
...had an affinity for.
Oh, it's so...
Stole my heart completely.
It's so different from a Range Rover Classic, which was available simultaneously.
The Range Rover Classic feels like a shed.
And the 80 series feels like a driving of modern, I don't know.
It feels very contemporane, manageable and car-like.
So what, I mean, this was a Japanese-backed car, also right-hand drive, diesel automatic, sadly.
But the flush headlights in the clear corners and whatever just made that thing.
And this one had a brush card on it.
And I just kind of melted looking at it.
And I was like, why have I never been so sexually attracted to this 80 series before?
Like, it was just gorgeous.
And then I come outside.
And the functionality of it's really impressive.
It's so refined and easy.
Amazingly, 34 degrees outside in the morning, car sat out all night.
And it's a diesel, right?
So I'm thinking, you know, a glow plug, blah, blah, that's going to be miserable in the morning.
I have never experienced this in my life.
I forgot.
So I'm like, I load it up and right-hand drive.
And like, you know, I'm like, I went to go get on the wrong side of the car initially and whatever.
And I just sort of hop in and I turn the key.
And as I'm turning the key, I'm like, oh, shit, glow plugs.
The thing started on the first compression stroke.
And the full speed cranking.
So all of those diesels are 24 volts.
Really?
Yeah.
So the 60 series.
The whole electrical system.
Right.
Good question.
The 60 series of the whole car is 24 volts.
Everything.
So you can't get a headlight for it.
You can't get a radio.
You can't get a clock.
You can't charge your device.
Very quickly.
You can charge it very quickly.
The 80 series on the diesels, they kept the 24 volt system for the starter.
So it's got two batteries that are run in series for the starter in parallel for everything else.
So the rest of the car is 12 volts.
But to get in a diesel, a 30 something degrees in the morning and have it go,
and idle perfectly is something I've never experienced ever.
And it did it every single morning.
We had the car in the first compression stroke.
It ran perfectly.
It was just unbelievable.
And the difference in refinement, 60 is kind of raw and fun.
But 80 is a real car.
Yeah.
And it feels car like in a way that a Range River does not.
You sit in it and it's, my mom had a 93 camera back in the day.
And so that was my first speeding ticket was in that car.
And so I spent a lot of time going very quickly in it.
And I just felt immediately like, you know, like I thought I was going to,
I genuinely thought I was going to get in the 60 and like have a moment,
like emotionally tear up because I haven't been in one since my dad's in probably 92.
And I really, I just, there were things I noticed.
I'm like, ah, look at that.
I forgot about this heater under the seat on the passenger side in the back.
There's a supplemental heater.
And I remember you used to burn the shit out of my toes when it was really cold out
by just putting that on full hot.
All these little things that I had totally forgotten about came back.
But then I get in the 80 and I'm like, oh, it's that this wheel.
And these like amazing Toyota turn signal feel.
And like the switch gear is magic and the gauges are gorgeous.
And this was just such a high mark, such a wonderful time for Toyota.
And then the sound of the diesel.
Like this is a, you know, a twin cam.
It was twin cam.
No, it was a single cam 24 valve diesel.
It's starting to, I called it twin cam and then had to correct it and voice over.
And if you go back and watching, you might be able to catch it.
But yeah, no, it's a man.
I just, we all wanted one.
Just looking at it.
We all wanted it.
And like, it's quite impressive.
It's a big truck, but like Billy goaded its way over whatever the hell we want through it.
And it just feels so manageable.
Yeah.
That's the same thing that most impressed me about it.
So you've driven plenty of 80s?
No, I've just driven 180 with a 24 valve.
And then I have a lot of time, yes, US market.
And I have a lot of time in range over classics and defenders from the same era.
Classics were, I have a lot of time in them, but like they were just ancient.
Yeah.
I mean, by comparison.
Yeah.
By comparison, they are ancient.
I mean, it was very sophisticated stuff in 1970.
So by 1995, less so.
Another weird thing that I put in the script that I was, I sort of didn't really fit.
And when Ant, I was originally going through the script, he's like, does this really need to be there?
And I thought it was really telling.
So I kept it.
When the 60 came out, Toyota had sold like 1.95 something million Land Cruisers worldwide.
Like it was just, I'm sorry, when the 80 came out.
So at the end of the run of the 60, the total Land Cruisers sales worldwide were 2 million.
And the total number of Land Cruisers sold in the UK was, okay, this is at the point where we put text on the screen,
because I don't remember what it was.
But it was like 1,200 cars or something.
It was like a genuinely earned Range Rover Territory.
Zero.
And it's big.
They didn't take any of it serious.
So when I saw that, I thought this is weird.
And I went back and got all, thank God for eBay.
But all of the UK reviews of the amazing, of the, of all the 60 series and the 80 series and the 60,
they just criticized up, down, left and right for being plasticky and shitty.
And now it was tougher than the Range Rover.
But they never used these as like, you know, crossing the Grand Canyon vehicles.
These were like, we left the farm and we're going to shops.
And so the Range Rover was more plush.
It had a V8 instead of this 636.
And the engine 6 was really slow and the V8 was slow, but it wasn't that slow.
And they just shit all over the 60 series in ways that I like, I was staggering to see.
Because the 60 you've got really good reviews in the US, like really good reviews.
And then the 80 came out.
And the initial reviews were like, well, this is, it was marshmallow puffed up and it looked terrible.
And but when it was a Tokyo Auto Show, like, it's another ugly Japanese car.
Basically, it was what they were saying.
And then they drove it.
And they were like, we were so wrong.
The British.
The British.
It was, that was interesting to see with their like, it just out Range Rovers, Range Rover.
Yeah.
And so that was the tipping point.
Yeah.
Certainly in terms of driving experience.
I don't think it's very good looking in the 80s series personally.
But I think.
You're all got in like sort of JDM.
Yeah, included in that.
There's one that I bicycle by every time I go bicycling.
And I, I don't know.
I think that it's US car.
It's, no, it's right hand drive and it's diesel.
Oh, really?
Okay.
Cool.
But I don't know.
It just looks overinflated.
The features, it's too, I don't know.
It's just, I think aesthetically it is, it's not successful, but that's not what it's for.
And then I, the moment you drive it, you're just like, I don't really care what it looks like.
It could also be the nice thing to drive.
The one that we were on had, you know, big, novelty tires and brushed cars.
Sure.
It was spectacular looking.
Plus it was a little bit JRG in color, which doesn't, never hurts.
Right.
Yeah.
No, I fell in love with that.
I actually was like, I could have one of these.
I can totally have one and then two batteries.
Well, they're so expensive.
Are they really?
Well, if it had, if you find one that has lockers, everyone wants ones with locking differentials
than they're a lot more expensive than ones that don't have them.
That's one of the big value drivers in 80 series when you see them for sale.
But, yeah, I mean, they've definitely crossed that chasm of rad wood stuff that, you know,
a lot of them got used up.
And so if you find a nice one, they're really expensive, especially if it's got all the stuff on it that you want it to.
So yeah, they've gotten expensive.
Okay.
Deservedly though.
Yes.
Like wow, whatever.
Really nice car.
And to have a diesel that starts on the first compression structure.
Unfortunately, the US ones for none of them were diesels.
But now you can bring them all over because they're over 25 years old.
Yeah, very cool.
That was very cool.
I mean, the 100 series I liked quite a lot.
The 200 I didn't.
200 was just too big.
It was the same size.
They've all been the same size.
It just got so bloated and I thought the styling was, it was the first time it didn't look premium.
The 200.
I just thought it was...
It's kind of got that overwrought like modern car styling thing going on.
It wasn't even that was overwrought to me.
It was just cheap looking.
It just was dumbed down.
It could have been an insurance...
One of those CGI insurance...
Renderings, yeah.
This is truck.
Yes.
But I think the new one, the new 300 has a similarly loyal following.
And I think the 100 Land Cruiser especially.
I think the fun ends less fussy looking with the Lexus.
And the Lexus which has four headlights.
But those are definitely getting collectible too.
Because they just do this thing that's really pleasant to use.
And obviously very capable as well.
That's...
I mean, I wound up adding this whole...
The whole idea of effortlessness...
Yes.
...to the script at one point.
I think that's important.
It helps highlight why the current one fails and also explains what is part of the formula of the Land Cruiser.
The whole idea, you know, the Land Cruiser is as it's nickname.
Like, nothing should want to stop this.
And the idea that it's buzzing my hand off just going up a hill.
And that it just doesn't want to keep up with traffic.
And if I pull out to pass someone...
It's not...
Look, 60s were all slow.
The L, the FJs were really slow.
But you knew what you were getting.
This sort of turbo hybrid thing that runs out of revs...
It runs out of Puffet higher revs.
It fools you into thinking the car is going to move and it doesn't.
And I don't like that bait and switch on something that's a $60,000...
Yes, it's under delivery.
It's over promising and under delivery.
Actually, that's a really good point.
That's always the opposite of what Land Cruiser did.
They just sat there and just didn't look like anything.
It looks like utility.
And I think that's true of the 80s styling.
It's sort of like, I don't mind this.
And then you use it and you're like, okay, now I get it.
It's really good.
It's meant for the person who is using it rather than for curb appeal
or the visual enjoyment of people you're going by.
Yeah.
And I just love that they last, you know, for 500,000 miles.
I mean, they were doing research for a bunch of interviews
with project leads of the earlier cars.
And they were talking about 900,000 kilometers
for minimum service life on the engines and designing in multiple rebuilds
if anything did happen to it.
But basically, their goal was to make the toughest vehicle in the world.
And I wish Google Docs was easier to search because it's a great quote.
He said, you know, there was an ad that was done in 1970 for the,
for Lancers that said, well, how long they last in the 70s,
I should say.
Well, no, how long they last when the first one wears out,
which was great.
But actually, that was their mission.
Yeah.
It was basically there.
He said, if we've done our job, then the, you know,
the, it would be cockroaches and Lancers is left.
It's basically what he said.
And they've done their job.
Yeah, things are tough as nails.
Cool, a cool thing that I never thought I would really care.
I always enjoy having an occasion to go down some path that I never have before.
So if that's because we have to sell one or because I'm writing
a auction catalog description for one or something,
but anytime I have an excuse to learn and do like a deep dive on something
that I never bothered to do before I always get a lot of value out of that.
There's always some next frontier of stuff that we haven't learned
despite of the fact that it's like our job to know stuff.
There's always something we don't know.
And it's nice to have.
Hold on.
If you'd like to learn more about Lancers or hold on.
I forgot.
No, no, I have.
There's a, all the, all the tests.
Look, this is how long Lancers has been going on.
There are two volumes of this Brooklyn's book,
56 to 87 and then 88 to 97.
This book costs more than most of my cars.
This is like the Lancers or legend.
Why is it so expensive?
Because it's been out of print for a while.
I have no idea, but I found one.
Okay, so there's a Proto or is that not a Proto?
That is not a Proto.
Not a Proto.
But it isn't 70.
No, it's 70, I think.
But I don't remember which is which on the front end.
I'm pretty sure the Proto had the...
No, the Proto, I think, was the full width.
When you look at the part of that video,
the one on my left, on my right,
when the screen left was the Proto.
And I think the Proto has a narrow, that's Proto.
Which actually it shouldn't be.
And that might be early enough that it's not actually
badge-day Proto because they were not...
They were called Banderos.
The Proto name took a while to gel.
They were the Brazilian gold ones.
Oh, this is the iron pig.
There she is.
Not a pretty.
That's the 55.
Okay, so we learned a bunch about land cruisers.
Cool question.
Yeah.
And all the people who have owned them will be like,
dog.
And we're like, we discovered something new.
And if I should buy a farm,
so I should have a land cruiser to cruise on my land.
Yeah.
Well, everyone else is like, dammit,
we already know this and have known it for some time.
Which is why they got expensive.
But in any case...
I love falling in love with cars that I didn't know.
Yes, it's the antidote to falling out of love
with dumb modern cars that don't inspire you.
Just in a GLS yesterday.
That's a friend's loner.
And I thought, how can something be so terrible?
And expensive.
And I don't know.
It was a loner car because his SL,
he's got an SL that is at 100 days out of service
in eight months so far.
It just keeps the new SL.
New SL.
Yeah.
Dies on him.
Continually dies on the mechanics.
They can't fail.
They've replaced everything.
And the car just turns itself off.
And like no lights, no nothing.
Nice.
Just kills all power.
Perfect.
And he's got GLS loner and this time.
I think it's the ninth.
His ninth time, his car was towed in.
So it's lemon long time.
I was gonna wait until he racks up with full refund
because in the meantime, all those loners are free.
Yes, makes sense.
Wow.
Well, on that note, we will sign off for now.
Toodles.
See you next week.
Ish.
Or similar late last week.
Whatever.
Sometimes you're just late.
No explanations.
We're back to the PJ H.J.
Oh, I see.
You see.
And Doug, here we have the Lemo Emu.
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About this episode
Exploring the intricate history of the Toyota Land Cruiser, Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott delve into its evolution from military origins to a luxury SUV. They discuss various models, including the FJ40 and the new 250 series, highlighting design changes, performance, and community perceptions. The episode features candid critiques of the latest Land Cruiser's engine and interior, comparing it with the Lexus GX. With anecdotes and insights from their experiences, the hosts reveal the Land Cruiser's legacy and its place in the automotive world.
10‑speed automatic transmission
8-speed automatic transmission
eight-speed automatic
electronically disconnectable sway bars
four-cylinder engine
fuel pump
hybrid engine
injectors
Quattro
six cylinder engine
Audi 90
BMW 3 Series
Ford Bronco
Ford F-150
Ford Fusion
Jaguar XF
Jaguar XJ6
Jaguar XJ-S
Jeep Cherokee
Jeep Compass
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Jeep Wrangler
Land Rover Defender
Land Rover Range Rover Sport
Lexus GX
Lexus LX
Mercedes-Benz SL
Mitsubishi Lancer
Porsche 911
Renault Wind
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota FJ Cruiser
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota RAV4
Toyota Tacoma
Toyota Tundra
Volkswagen e-Golf
Volkswagen Golf
Original notes
Land Cruiser is one of Toyota’s – and, arguably, the world’s – most haloed marques. In this episode, Jason and Derek discuss its origins and history from its jeep origins, to its enormous family tree, all the way up to the brand new 250-series models, the 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser and Lexus GX550.
Jason and the Hagerty crew traveled to the rugged, mountainous outskirts of Salt Lake City (and the nearby Land Cruiser Heritage Museum) to film an ICONS episode on the illustrious off-roading Toyota. And in this episode, the carmudgeons dive into the origins of the Japanese jeep and its Attila-grade family tree of subsequent series: the 20-series Land Cruiser and then the, 40, 55, 60, 70, 80, 100, 200, 250, and 300, just to name a few!
The FJs, BJs, the Iron Pig, heavy duties, station wagons, Prados, the Lexus-badged models like the LX600 and GX550 (Motor 1’s SUV of the year!). We’ll even cover the Land Cruiser’s competition along the way: the Jeep Wrangler, Compass, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, and Wagoneer; the Land Rover Defender, Range Rover, Velar, Discovery and Evoque; even the Ford Bronco and International Scout.
In addition to the WWII Willys Jeep 4x4, we’ll cover the origin of the “J” in BJ and FJ – an abbreviation for jeep, which itself many believe is a pseudo-acronym for GP or “general purpose,” but a fact-check says otherwise. Even the Land Cruiser name itself was a tweaked version of the Land Rover moniker to make Rando-kurūzā in Japan.
Jason also reviews both of the new 250-series Prado trucks: the 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser and 2024 Lexus GX550. We'll talk powertrain, styling, cargo and passenger capacity, comfort, handling, NVH, luxury, and more.
Now let’s get to it!
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The Carmudgeon Show
Hagerty Media
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