Trust, Certification, and Auto Repair Industry Issues with Norm Gieselman from TikTok, Part 2

Like, I'd be pissed if I was the engineer that spent five years of my life developing this system that nobody even knows is there or cares about. You know, salesman's not gonna sell you on that. Yeah, he's gonna sell you on the cool things on the inside. Look at this, Sam. Zoom. You know, leather, finished, yellow threading. That's where we left off last week's episode of the jaded mechanic with Norm Gieselman and Jeff Compton in their conversation. By the way, you can find Norm G.

On TikTok at mechanic of the stars. Just search for him there. Jumping right back into the conversation with Norm G. From TikTok and Jeff Compton on this week's episode of the jaded Mechanic.

Nissan had the little dog washing assembly thing in the back of it where you could, like, wash. Like, of all the stupid things to put in a car. Like, you can't build a transmission that'll go in. That'll last out of warranty, but let's put a dog washing station in the back of the Nissan, bro. F. Off with that, man. Like, it's. You've.

It's almost like a. There's a running joke. Watch me put something completely useless into this vehicle, and I bet you they'll go for it, Stan. And he's like, they're never gonna buy that, Stan. Sure enough. You know, some engineers like, hey, hey, you owe me.

I think a lot of that is vehicles are becoming a lot more androgynous. Everything looks like everything else. Yeah. The pricing is pretty competitive all the way around. So it is the little thing like that where someone's walking between a. A Nissan, a honda, a Kia, and they just can't make up their mind. Well, the Nissan has a dog washing thing, and we have a Shetland pony for a dog, so let's go with that one or whatever. Right? Like that, weird as that may be.

That might be, you know, the tipping point.

Like, that's what. That's what, crazy as it is, people are making their decisions now based on that kind of thing. Well, I loved it. I loved it. Had to have it. What? So, when we talk. Going back to the. The mentorship thing.

Yeah.

As a man that came up through a tech, that came up through the apprenticeship situation here in Canada, where do you think it needs to improve?

Current tech would be a big step. I mean. Yeah. Like, in the scholastic side. I think that's big part of it. I don't know. Like, I like the system the way it is. I mean, it's a little bit different from what I'm getting back from what I got back from Dylan, what I'm getting back from Charlie, is, like, when I was there, you know, a thousand years ago or whatever, whenever that was, we waited a half a day in the school learning this particular system x or whatever, like half a power through a transmission or whatever.

Yeah.

Then the other half of the day, you go to the shop and physically put your hands on that transmission and see the path of power and understand it. So. And I think they've gone away from that a little bit because everything is very module based.

Yeah.

How they, how they do the training now and then they'll, they'll learn about something, but they will go to the shop and then put their hands on something else.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of the guys and girls who are in the industry or in trades in general, learn. Bye. Tactile learned by doing. Right. So if you don't quite grasp it in the school side, but then you go to the shop, go, oh, yeah, okay, well, now I get it. Now I'll never forget it either. Like, now it's ingrained in my brain, and I think. But that being said, I think they need to push the modular learning almost to a better place.

Like, I'll say I have this theory, and I'm nothing disparaging against the automotive industry, but there's so much crossover between hd and automotive. Electric. Electricity is electricity. Electronics are electronics. Drivetrains are drives, trains. Some are bigger, some are smaller, but the theoretical fundamental knowledge is all the same. So I think you should be able to go to a point where you go one, two, three years, and you stop there. You're an automotive tech, and then you go four, five, and you do air brakes, hydraulics, and all the specific things to HD if you want to push on.

Yeah.

That aren't overlaps. Right. Then you can become an het at that point. But because there is so much overlap, like, I don't understand why there is separation to that point. Like, I think that's kind of where it's going.

I used to say when I, when I walked out of the truck shop as a young apprentice, where I was getting paid, you know, and I went to an automotive shop and took a huge pay cut. I said to the bosses, well, that alternator on that cat that I was working on last week is the same that's on this Corolla. Like, it works the exact same way. The starter works the same way, the alternator works the same way. Like, so much stuff transfers. And then, so when I got my first year done, and I made that jump from heavy equipment and HD to automotive. I got into second year with the class, and after I'd been rewiring trailers and, you know, going on service calls to get a truck to start and all that kind of stuff, I was way ahead of some of the classmates in understanding what electronics, what it was doing. And they're like, how did you learn all this? Because you're on the side of the road and the truck won't start or cranks really slow, and you have to figure it out, right? Whereas they were in the dealership, and they were like, well, I do an intake on a 3.4, and then I do another one in the afternoon, and then I get really good fast at that time.

And then over there, he's taking trainees out all day long, and then the other guy maybe puts him on the bench, rebuild them. I'm so blessed that I had that heavy duty background because it wasn't, nobody ever looked at me and sent me out on a service call and said, get that truck started and go, oh, and you got to be back here in 58 minutes. They just said, go and get it started.

Well, yeah, and I think there's a very distinct, like, when I left freightliner, I was awesome. Like, I was fast. I could fix anything. And, like, we were, we had a good crew, and we turned out a lot of work, and it was like, fast, fast, fast. And then I left. Like, my, like, my buddy Keith went to this company called pentastar Oil field, and I was like, that's a good progression to get me overseas. I need more oil field experience. I need to get away from Freightliner.

So I went, followed him there, and I remember distinctly the story. I did a clutch on a 73 Kenworth in about 4 hours. Like, it was just, you basically duck under the frame. Everything's there. Like, whip, whip, whip. And the foreman came out and he goes, are you gonna start this clutch? At some point? I was like, what are you talking about? I was confused. And he goes, it's got to be changed. I'm done.

It's finished. He's like, no way. But then he goes. He goes, impressed? But he goes, did you check the flywheel run out? Did you get it machined? Did you check this? Did you check this? Like, no, we don't check that. We just jam it in there. He goes, okay, I'll make a note of that, because this thing's going 15 hours north to rainbow Lake, and if it breaks down, I'll know who I'm going to send to go recover it. And then, and that really struck like the transition from dealership to fleet where you're responsible, not, not, not lawyer responsible, but generally you're going to get in that service truck and go to Zama on the northwest territories border to fix this thing. And I've had, you know, I've done that a few times.

Not any fault of my own. But you make those drives and you're like, oh, I'm going to take, I'm going to make sure that this thing makes it all the way back because I don't want to come back here. And I think that's a big difference. And I think you get guys who go, oh, no, it has to be torqued to 103. Right. Going back to that reference. Well, you, I kind of know right away that you've never been anywhere.

Yeah.

But where you started. Right. And I think you need to branch out and do different things. And I think that's, like, where the trade has to go and where the training and mentoring has to go. As I really drill into the, and I talked about it earlier, is the fundamental knowledge of the system. Right. Fundamentally, how does it work? Like how does a four stroke work? How does the engine work? How does a, how does a two stroke, how does a transmission work? Like, if you get that, then you can sharpen in on a very specific knowledge base if you want or not. But you gotta understand the fundamentals.

I told Charlie this before. I said, this is a, my shop is a great place and a terrible place to be an apprentice because you get exposed to a myriad of different things and opportunities. And I'll chuck you at stuff. And it's like every brand, every shape, every size. But the downside is you don't get really good at any one particular thing. Like you might not do a timing set on a, on a, on, like a, an ecotech. Yeah, ecotech or something like that for another two years. So you can do it again.

You're not going to be any faster because, geez, I haven't done this in a couple years. You don't have that muscle memory, but in the meantime, you've learned all this other stuff and you've been challenged on other things. So it's kind of a give and take that way. But I think you kind of got to tailor it to how they want to learn and how you teach. Right.

So when you see the talk and, you know, because a lot of my listeners and a lot of people that are out on TikTok, right, the Canadians are not the majority. We're the minority. And that's cool. When you see that the Americans talk about how, like, maybe what we need is all we need to do what Canada does. Like, can you 100% get behind that statement that we're really doing it better? Or what do you think? Like, if you were going to take it and sell it to the Americans as something that has to be done to try and get ahead of this problem of washout and young people leaving to go to other trades, what tweaks do you do?

I think it needs to be broadcast out a little bit more clarity. Like, it does. It's flawed. Okay. But when you have nothing to something. Right. But you go, what they're missing is it's not just the training and the school side, but for the apprentice themselves, like we have, as you know, once they get. I'm actually afraid to use this term because it wakes up all the, don't tread on me.

People from the states. But once you get indentured and you agree to the contractual obligation, you have to. To. Between me and the apprentice to complete your apprenticeship. Right. I have to pay you 65% of my journeyman rate.

Yeah.

And then when you come out of second year, it's 75% and then an 85 and then 95. And then I think that gets them not. Not like a carrot on a stick, but it. It gives them something to look forward to. That if I do well and I pass and I. And I get out of this and I go back to work, I'm getting a raise. Yeah. That's great.

I look forward to that. When I did it, it was awesome. I knew when I got out I was going to get a three and a half dollar raise instead of this. Congratulations. You've been here two years. Here's your 2% 50 cent an hour raise. Like, come on, keep that and shove it up, you know? Yeah, but.

Yeah.

And I think they're missing that part of it. And I think the other side that I try to stress to people, as I said, it's an internationally recognized competency unit. Right. And I said, well, is it? What, Nate isn't anything or, you know. Yes, but internationally, it's like, if you have a PhD in economics from Yale, people recognize that as, you know, at least something about economics because you're trained from. You have this bit of paper that says you did this thing, right? So it's the same as our het, Red Seal guys. Like, I used the example when we used to hire for rig crews and we needed mechanics and electricians. But we were doing a cold hire for three rigs.

We'd pull all these 10,000 resumes in and then flick them like this off the top looking for Canadians, Australians and british journeyman in that trade. Because we don't know you from Adam, but we know, you know, at least this much. We go from 10,000 to 1000. And from that 1000 of those guys, we can win o down on who we want. But I'm not going to, like, I'm not saying this offensively. I'll leave the Americans out of it. Okay. I'm not going to hire someone from Columbia where I got a phone.

All as references.

Yeah.

I don't know you from Adam. And if Joe Blow says he's good and Joe Blow says, then I might take a chance. I don't have time for that. But people who have a recognized bit of paper from a recognized institution that's, you know, sponsored by the government's program, whether they screw it up or not, it's still substantiated. Substantiates it in some fashion.

Yeah.

And I think that's what they're missing. And yes, of course the government's going to screw it up. They always do. And they do here.

Right.

It's a bunch of paperwork and then, you know, even the, even the unemployment insurance side of it is a hassle, but it is there, and it is a thing that you can utilize, plus there's bursaries and grants and all this other stuff you can do. So I don't know, I think it's the thing that's not there. Right. And they have examples worldwide they can follow. And then if. And make it better, make it a private run thing.

And you're not the first person that's told me that they've been in that kind of hiring situation where they take a stack and they look at those three, I look at Canadians, I look at Australians, and I look at, you know, the English because of the. It's trade certification and, you know, and I like everybody. Well, I've got ASC's. ASc's. Once you step out of America, no matter what anybody says, don't mean hilla beans. You know, they barely mean a hill of beans in America. Right.

In terms of if somebody's heard of them.

Yes.

They know they're not worth anything. Right.

Yeah.

That's the problem.

Yeah. As a level of competency. And I'm not trying to run it down, please. You know, I've got my detractors that are like, you can't you can't say that. But ACAC is a great thing. It is in the sense that, you know, it, it shows a level of competency. But, I mean, there's always the same thing. Everybody goes, the tests are too easy.

You know, I worked with a guy that he had was master surf. I couldn't fix a sandwich. Like, yeah, I get it. I've worked with licensed guys that can't fix squat. You know, I saw a definite change about five years ago when they changed the test from when I took it to when now. And guys are passing and yet they get in on the floor and they're like, you can't even volt drop a starting circuit. Like, you cannot do it. You don't understand the fundamentals.

You pass the. You pass exam. Yeah, you can't do it. And I'm like, how did that happen? And then you talk to some other people and they're like, some of them put their kids through three years of schooling, right? They had them gone for two months at a time. For three years. They went, they wrote, and then they write their CAQ CFQ certificate of qualification and they fail. And then all that money that they've spent and all that, you know, tax dependence, that's come in, it's wasted. So then they were saying immediately, like all the dealer owners and everything, the test is too hard.

You got to make the test easier. My guys, I've been without him for six months now, over three years, and he failed it. Meanwhile, at the shop, what were you doing with him? Well, you gave him some recalls and small changes and some, you know, there was no mentor thing. So I've seen it where even if you don't get very good mentorship at your place of business, at least when you get your license, it gets you to a certain level of competition or competency. And then I've said, shop yourself around. You know, if you're not in a shop that's got good culture, go find a shop that does, like yours or somebody else's where they're going to. If you want to take that next step in your career, you're going to get some better training, you're going to get some exposure to some more complex stuff, and then if you've got it, you're going to develop it. You know, if you can really do it, you're going to develop it.

And if not, you might just stay at the dealership and, you know, sell a bunch of flushes and sell a bunch of brakes. And I'm not ripping on those guys. I was one. I did it. You know, it's good. I made money. But if you want to go to that next level of, like, like you said, where you can go anywhere in the world and apply the fundamentals to fixing whatever you happen to be dispatched to fix, that's a different, that takes a different thing, you know, and if you want to make open those avenues where you're going to need some kind of, you know, proof that you're competent, and that's. I think.

I think that's where it's going, and I think that's where that trade ticket lands you. But I think we can't overstate its importance. I think that that is a fundamental, basic level, and it's, you know, it might not be current, it might not be applicable to what you're currently engaged in, but it gets you somewhere. So if you're talking about a particular aspect, you know, it's not going to go whoosh over their head. You know, as a second year, you should know this, because I know what you learned in second year. You should have a grasp. Or, like, Charlie came to the shop as an example. She goes, I'm losing it on this particular thing.

And you go, okay, after work, she showed up at 05:00 with coffees, you know, a couple of tips. I need your help. Okay. You know, we can kind of get past that, and then you kind of. And then you can drill down into it and make sure that everything's fine. But I think that should be the foundation from which you build up from somewhere, or you hone in on a very specific ability. I just don't like that. In the states currently, if you pluck away the ASCs, which is, you know, something at least, but essentially, you wake up in the morning and you can wake up and go, I'm a plumber.

Yeah.

I'm a mechanic. I'm a trade guy of some description. And there's no reason you're not.

Yeah.

You know, that's. That's where I think something in place is better than nothing in place.

Yeah. What when you see the young people go into the apprenticeship, like, just like Charlie as an example, what do you see most of them when they struggle with, like, is it always. Can we say that? Most of the time, for a lot of them, it's electrical.

Uh, the hd side. Uh, like, I'll use Dylan as an example. He did okay on everything. Like, he passed. Everything was great. And he got hammered on hydraulics.

Yeah, yeah.

Hammered on it like he was here a few nights and we're working through it, and it was like me going, okay, dude, you got to give me a minute. It's been 25 years since I've learned that the. This side of it, like, I understand it, but I mean, just give me a minute. But I think that's another side of it, especially on the hd side. And I have to be aware of that from our shop because we've moved away a little bit from the hd stuff. That part of the reason he struggled with it is because he's not exposed to it. It's not a hands on thing that we do every day either. It's not common between the two industries.

Air brakes is one, hydraulics is one. The rest of it, I think electrical. If you're not good at math or, you know, from the. From the school side.

Yeah.

You're gonna. Any of that stuff where you have to figure out a formula.

Yeah.

Algebraically solve for the missing variable. If you're not good at school, you're gonna struggle. That's just the way it is. Right. But even Nate, like, when I went, you had to have a grade ten, and now you have to be grade twelve. Like, they amped up their qualification. You can't just be some pleb. You have to.

You have to have some cognizant ability and, you know, be able to scholastically succeed in some fashion.

So now, was it Nate or Dylan that's gone on to CN?

Dylan went to CN. Went to. Yeah, it was. You know, he was. We were slow and we were cutting back hours and stuff. He's like, I have to look. I want to stay forever, but I have to look for something else. And I said, the best thing for you is to go do something HD and, you know, like, expand your.

Expand your development. It would be only good for your career and your career progression. Like, to stay at one place forever, I think that's not the rule. That's the exception. Like, in my mind, you should go out and you should experience different things and change jobs and go, wow. Because if you look at something and you go, I don't think I'd like that, or go do it and go, wow, I hate that, like poison, you know, like, once you've done it or like, wow, this is really interesting, and I want to get more into this particular aspect of it. Right.

So do you find, though, Norm, that after you've had that and you've put that investment in them and then something, you know, they go on to a greener pasture or, you know, go like you did see the world or whatever. Does that kind of jilt you? Like, you feel like you've. You've got so much invested. I mean, yes, we want to be mentors, and we, like, you can take pride in getting that person. Take Charlie, for example, who. Pretty green, right? She might be an awesome tech in three years, you know, five years, whatever. Like, if she goes and takes another job somewhere, like, do you feel like you're starting all over again at the bottom, or is it just kind of like.

Yeah, I can see where that comes from. I think me personally, uh, not to make it sound super cheesy, but, like, with Dylan leaving, right? Like, he came. He was very young. He was 19, and he worked with me for, like, five or six years, like, a long time. Right? And he was there through the whole growth, and now he's off to better things. And you get that kind of wipe, tear from the eye, fatherly, parental. I'm sending you out into the world as a developed thing that I created, you know? And I think that's kind of how I look at it. So you don't get, like, the, well, screw you, man.

I put all this time into you. No, like, I've raised this tech.

Yeah.

Right. And go, world. Here's a good one for you. Go solve things and go do things. And I think that's, like, great if he stays, but there's a great tech out there now for, you know, the rest of the world to build from and learn from. And, you know, and if you inject all the stuff that we're talking about about bettering the industry and having the right attitude and all these things, and you set that loose into the world like dandelion fluff, hopefully, it'll render itself out there. Right.

Well, so it's nothing business wise, the way you did that, there wasn't enough available opportunity for him then. Right. It's a hard question. Or he.

He fell victim because. Because of the fact that he was a journeyman. Like, he was. Well, third year, he was a heavy equipment journeyman. He had one more year to go before he had his full het. But, you know, he's up at, you know, 34, $35 an hour. When that's slow, you can go home. Expensive guy.

I'll tire people here, you know, and that's a. That's a business decision. And he's like, I can't do this. I got payments. I got, you know.

Yep.

And I said, I don't know what to tell you, man. It's a weird year. And then I was calling other shops around me going, is it just me? Am I just the asshole? But no, everybody was dead. And all the parts guys are saying, everybody's dead. We're down everywhere. It was just a weird winter. Like, it went usually December slow, January slow. And then at the end of January, it ramps up and we pick up and it was like January slow, February slow.

We're into march now. Now we're going on four months of like thumb twiddling going. This is impacting, I don't, I don't have hundreds thousand dollars in, in spare money to keep things floating around. I need to keep that turnover happening. Right?

Yeah. And you didn't, and you weren't paying a flat rate. So, I mean, going back to the conversation, right? They, the dealerships don't care if January and February sucks. I mean, they care because they want to make money. But like the, the flat rate guy, that's nothing coming in and they only got 2 hours that day. They don't give a crap about you.

But it's the same result, right? Like that guy, much like Dylan, is still not making any money. So that's that. What that motivated that guy, flat rate or otherwise, to seek other opportunities because he has needs and he needs money, right?

Yeah. What, what drives you nuts about how business is conducted in our industry? Because we kind of, we, like, we'll talk about our friend Chris Enright, right? And he's, you know, he's very, both him and I have kind of dipped our toe into talking to some. You've seen it. You've seen the conversations. Like, some shop owners have been like, who the f are these guys? Like, you know, one runs a really, like a small shop that is always going on about his numbers and profit. And then the other one, he don't even run a business. And he's trying to tell me that I shouldn't do this in my business. Like, you know, it, what is it the way that's like, go back to your tire thing where, you know, you know, shops that would sell that person two tires when one is one, you know, it's an all wheel drive and one is 330 seconds, they've had a blowout and they're going to sell them at least two and then not four.

Man, like, I, this, it comes down to your own personal philosophy, I think. But I think as far as the industry goes, I think we need to get back away from profit only. Like if we back away from that just enough so everybody makes enough money and you still create a bit of value. Like, if you. Like, I think we've talked about it before. Like, I do tire repairs for free.

Yeah.

And a lot of people don't. And they go, that's stupid. You can make all this money. I said, yeah, but that pays me back a lot more, I think. Like, and it makes my soul happy. It makes me feel good. I'm helping this person do something. So I think, is it the most profitable way I can run my business? Probably not.

Yeah.

It does work in a long and a long game for value creation and all that sort of thing. And it makes me a decent person. It's good karma. You know what I mean? Like, I think there's a lot of really cutthroat profit incentivized. You need to have four new tires. Or you could tell that person, go, you actually should just do the rear axle as a minimum.

Yeah.

And then maybe in the fall, when you're going to change to your winters, we should maybe think of the other ones. They go, thanks, I really appreciate that. Right. And you get the sale anyway. It's just, it's a longer road and nobody wants to go down that longer road anymore. It see, it feels like. And I think answering your question, what's wrong with it personally? That's what I feel. It is.

Yes, there's margins and yes, there's profit. And long as you watch that and you're still making it a go, but you're still a decent person. Like, I look at my, I'm very, very protective of my Google reviews. I don't know why. It's become an obsession with me. And I got two one star reviews and they're both because I decided to close on a Saturday against what hours are posted. I was here. I was here and he wasn't here.

You get one star and I don't think people realize how much that affects things. You know? Like, you are mildly inconvenienced, but now you've given me a one star rating for my entire business operation.

Yeah.

You know, like, stop it. Anyway, I'm off topic. But that's.

They should be able to throw that away, though, right? Like, it's like, you should because technically you didn't perform any work. Right.

They're mad because they showed up there and I was. I dared to take a set. I'm very selfish. I'm technically open Saturday. Yeah, but it's summer, man. If I don't. If I have nothing booked on Wednesday and someone calls me on Thursday, can I come Saturday for an oil change? No. Yeah, no, I'm not gonna open the shop.

Okay. But if you. You wanna buy four tires. Yeah, I'll come in. Right. And then I'll also book more things because I'm gonna be there anyway. I'll take on more things. But it's the summer.

We get eight weeks of summer in Canada, essentially. I wanna do some. I wanna go fishing, like you said. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. What? Um. Cause, you know, we. The young lady that posted that video that you stitched last week talking about how she went into the quick lube place and she walked out with a bill for like, almost $500. Right?

Yes.

I mean, that kind of. It's. It always gives me that creepy feeling right? When it's like I, you know, people look at that and go, well, that's the industry you're in. And I put my hand up and go, first of all, that's not the industry I'm in. I don't work at a Quickloop place. But the reality is that could happen at a lot of others, any of our shops. Right. She could walk in, expect an oil change, and walk out there with a bill for $500.

And I said to her in my response, you're not coming with anything because you're not showing. Like, did anybody see the old tires? Did anybody see the air filter? Like, if the. Oh, the air filter's got a hole in it. Well, something's been in there chewing it. So whoever wants to recommend that. I don't have a problem with that. Right. It shouldn't have a air filter in your engine with a hole chewed through it.

Like, I'm sorry. It just makes sense. Did. Did I agree with the price of $50 for an air filter? Hell no. But, I mean, it doesn't seem to matter how we educate these people that, like, the reason our oil change is so cheap is because you're not getting out of there with just an oil change. And it's cheap because.

Right. Yeah.

They're using people that are under skilled, under trained, not qualified to do squat are servicing your second. Most people's now their largest investments you're gonna make, you're leaving to untrained, low paid people that, like, couldn't come into your shop and maybe make it. They wind up there, you know? So I felt bad, but then I'm like, like, there's we. It's just another smear campaign to say that another shop ripped a female off. You got to come with more than that anymore, right? For me to put my cape on and go, I'm going to here to rescue you. No, you need to be more informed. It's your money, it's your business or youre vehicle. You feel like you got swindled.

It's probably because you don't understand versus what they maybe actually did to you, you know?

And that comes back to that gap, I was saying, about how complex cars are and the knowledge base of the people driving it has got so wide, like, it's so far removed from, you know, everybody knowing anything, and even that guys come in and remember, there were some comments on some of those posts, but I was like, I if you're of the ilk, when you want to go, I want to rail you for $1,500 with the sales I could. And the easiest one to do that in is a guy that thinks he knows something. Oh, the girl who knows nothing. It's. Well, I know, I know it's going to be this, and I know, I know. I think, yeah, you're right. We should totally. For new tires, right? Yeah, you're right.

We should go for a new tire. Like, if I wanted to sell somebody, that's the guy I'm going to sell 100%.

They were way easier. The guy that came in and used to say, I used to be a mechanic, he was the best one to sell to, because if you talk to him long enough, if you talk to him long enough, he'd agree to everything you said. Yeah, everything. You need taillight fluid. Yeah, I remember that. I had to change that back in 1972. I've been there. Remember that? And it's like, okay, I need to sign here.

You know, the gender thing, to me, nobody, I don't believe, for the most part, are out there targeting anybody anymore. But that particular segment of our industry, it's so slimy to me because it's like they come out there with their little dish of what the clean fluid's supposed to look like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's like, okay, so that's a great sales tactic. But here's the other side of the reality. What they're dumping in, they're putting fluid in that. Not really what's supposed to go in there. It meets the absolute bare minimum, and it's a blend of other shit so that it can use it in multiple models. And, like, it's temperature, you know, it doesn't have a dipstick. So, I mean, is that's temperature related on how, you know, how are we gonna put it in? You know, how much do we actually get in? Well, whatever we take out is what we put back in. That's a great scenario.

What happens if, you know, it was already low, then what do you do? You just ship the customer's car. Still low fluid in transmission, right? So.

Sure, but. Okay, let me just put this angle to you. Yes, but it's, this isn't, this isn't a new grift.

No.

Shops have been around forever. If consumers are still falling for that, they gotta own some of that, too. If you want the cheapest, because you don't want the best value, but you want the cheapest, that's what you're gonna get. And they're gonna make money because that's the product they're selling. They've been doing that thing for 40, 50 years. So be aware. If you're gonna go there, they're gonna upsell you. And if you can't go, no, thank you.

Yeah, your bill is going to be higher.

Yeah, yeah. And some of that stuff probably, it's not a bad idea to change, you know, transmission fluid. It's not a bad idea. It's not bad maintenance. Like, it's, it's, you know, there's a point now after a certain point, like Brandon slow talks about, you're probably better to not do it. You know, and that's a whole other can of worms. But I, I mean, you know, these people that, it's like, what always I hated was it was like they would go in and it would come into the dealer, and it had a strip drain plug, or, like, it had, we get it all the time. Shift flare.

Right after they did a transmission flush, you'd have to go through, do the relearn, check the. And of course, they never want to charge customer for that time. Just do it real quick. Just hook up the, you know, the scan tool and do the relearn real quick. This is a really good customer. Really good customer. What the hell is she doing? Out of quickly getting a transmission service done? She's a really good customer. Like, what was the thing that I always was like, you know, or do it because they think it's under warranty.

That's not under warranty. Sorry. You know, I can remember at Nissan, we did a bunch of cvts, and I'm not saying that putting the wrong fluid and it causes it to blow up because it's a CVT from Nissan. Just not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. But we would like, it had fresh wrong fluid in it. We still did the training under warranty anyway, because, I mean, Nissan didn't care. They didn't ask, but I mean, really, should the technician take a hosing on what the labor should be? Because you're going to slide it through under, under warranty and he's going to his labor's half because the customer got it done at the quick loop. Like, that's where some of my hate for them comes from, because I was that tech that, like, my labor was half.

You know, you do have a lot of hate for them. You voice that concern a poor loot text man.

Norm. I don't like that they get to call themselves some kind of technician. I don't like that they get to consider themselves in our industry.

It's to me, I think that. I think I'll go you one further. I think the canadian tire is just an expanded business model of that same premise. Oh, right. Like, they're, they're upselling you on ball joints. Like, I went there with my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time. She took an oil change, and they had $2,500 for the work they wanted to do. And I went back and said, take it off the hoist or go show me.

Well, you're not allowed back there. This is when I was, like, 19, you know, and I didn't know anything. But I'm like, show me. And I think that's, I think a big advantage of that and building a lot of trust. One of the most powerful things that's come out to help that is DVis showing people pictures of things. You don't need to know what that is, but you can clearly see that that is broken. Yeah, this is supposed to be here and it's there and. Or this.

Cords are hanging out of the tire. Even. You don't know anything about tires. You know, that's not good.

That's.

Yeah, right? Like, yeah, if you want. That's a huge thing.

Ten cars in a parking lot, and you look down at the tires, you're not going to see cord out of all of them. You know what I mean? Like, you, if you see one, that's one too many. But like, I. The video, especially the video thing, if you can grab that and shake it and the tie rods going up and down, even though the customer's, like, never going to work on a car, never been underneath the car. If you can show them one side doesn't do that and the other side does slam dunk, they can't in you a shot.

Like, there's where I am, here, it's fine. You move the camera over and you go, here, look at this one. They go, oh, that's not good. I don't even know what that is, but I know it's not good.

Yeah. I struggle with it because it's still so foreign. It's such a new concept for me because I did so many years. Have you just wrote it down and you put the car outside and you went, got another car. You know, like, it takes so much longer now to document all this kind of stuff, and it's, you know, some of the running, the way they're doing it now, is like, well, we want the tech to do it, but we don't really want to pay them, you know, and that. Or. Yeah, or it's. It's.

Well, they're paid hourly, but it's not. There's no posted time for the inspection on how long what's allotted for it to take. You know, everybody knows it takes a little longer to check front end on a Chevy truck than it does to check in on a Toyota Corolla. Like, it's. You know, one's a little more involved, and. Yeah, it. Some of them even become a two person thing because somebody's got to hold the camera. Somebody's got to shake the wheel.

Like, it becomes a little more.

Yeah. And it does reflect, like. Like my oil changes on a standard five liter synthetic with a not ridiculous filter. They're $160, man, $165. With the inspection and all that stuff, you'll go, geez, that's a lot. I can get it changed at work. Yes, but you don't have a guy like me looking at it. You don't have the guys that I've trained how to do this.

You're not doing the DVis. You're not, you know, recommending things, like, into the future.

Yes.

We notice your brakes are like, your air filter is dirty. Next service, you should replace it. You know, I'm nothing forcing you to do it now or coming up with an estimate for $4,000 worth of work you need. Or, jeez, you know, I can't believe you put your kids in this car. It's danger, blah, blah, blah. You know, stop it. You know, so it's value versus cost, I guess, is where that kind of comes down to.

So, yeah, we're not.

Get it, get it. And they never leave. But the ones who come and go, they phone. How much is your oil changes?

Yeah.

On what? You know, like, it varies a lot.

Like, yeah, we did. We did an Audi last week, two weeks ago. Excuse me. And the oil was $300. Yeah, the Audi and the guys, like, I've never paid that much for an oil change in my life. Well, is this the first one on the car? No, I was at such a place. Well, I guarantee if they did it for the cost that you just cut the price. You claim they put the wrong oil in.

Yeah, you got regular old five w 40 meant for, you know, a Chevy. And you didn't get 540 meant for your diesel Audi. Sorry it doesn't have all the added package. And is it gonna cause engine blow up? I don't know, but if you keep doing it, it ain't gonna help it at all, you know, like, it's just. That's a struggle I get is trying to sell that value of everybody's just about price, price, price.

Then you come back to my using my mother law as an example. Well, that seems expensive. Based on what? You don't know. You have no idea. You know that $60 is less than $160, but you don't know why it's lessen. Right.

But I don't want to spend 160, Norm. I only want to spend 60.

Right.

The want. Right. I want it to be free is what I want, Norm.

I want that for you, too. But in reality, that's not going to happen.

So what's, um. Have you got an edge exit strategy?

Charlie, she's gonna grow up and take over? No. I don't know. I, like, it's funny you mentioned that, because I started this business, and it's like, what are we doing? Because if I had done this when I was 30, like, I'm gonna work forever, and I'm gonna bust ass, and. But now I, like, started it when I was, like, 47, and I'm turning 50. July 1 kind of thing. Like, yeah, I reckon I got five to seven years of physically outputting myself any further, and I don't want to. So the desire goes down. The body's ability to do it goes down.

Uh, the brain's still good, so hopefully they'll be, you know, bring Charlie up, get a new lube tech that. That was always supposed to be. Pushed me into the office, do the more business development side of things.

Right?

And then eventually some guy goes, I love what you've done with this place. Here's a check for $3 million. And, like, thank you, have a good day, and I'm out of here, right? Like, that's my exit strategy. Maybe it's. That's kind of up there along the lines of winning the lottery and I. And, you know, actually going to happen that way, but, you know, that's the plan. I got. I got to get out.

What about your son?

He has zero interest in this industry. No, he's. He's doing it, and I like that he's there. He's super helpful. He just found out at 16 and 17 that, you know, cars are expensive and girls are expensive and you need a job, and I'll go work for dad and change tires. Right. And then it's not his future. But I said, look, man, the stuff you're learning, like, you didn't.

He goes, I don't think I know anything. But you've been with me for like, three years, part time, you know, off and on. But I said, it used to be left is loose, and, you know, we're like basic, basic. But now we're at the point where I go front brakes, and he knows it means bring it on the hoist and lift it correctly and take the tires off. And there's a sequential order to things.

Yeah.

Like, these are skills that are not going to be wasted no matter what you do with your life. This is part of being a man, part of being competent and useful and effective and moving through the world. Like, you got to be, you know, having tool knowledge and body position knowledge and lifting ability and competency to help and how to solve problems. I mean, these are not things that are going to go to waste with anybody.

You know, in ten years, if somebody shows him a DVI, he'll at least have a better understanding of what he's looking at, even if he's not fixing it every day. But he can go, well, you know, I can't take it to dad's shop. I'm on the other side of the world. But, I mean, here's a dvi of my front end, and I know what those parts are because I used to, you know, I used to do the brakes on that. So even.

Even my daughter, she. She pretends not to know anything, but because I did, like, an in house car basics, class sort of thing for about 35 people, I'm like, are you going to come? She goes, why? I have you. All right, fair enough. But she pretends not to know. But she knows, like, I've shown her all the steps, like, how to change a tire and how to do a thing, and she just chooses not to do it because she doesn't need to, because she has me, right? So I don't mind helping open. I said, but she's not ignorant of, like, she won't be that girl from that video, right? She won't ever get posed like that. She knows what value is? She knows things are expensive no matter what it is, you know, she'll call me and go, does this look right?

Yeah.

Yes, it does. Go get it fixed.

That's what I've loved about tick tock is I've never. I mean, I knew there was female technicians out there, but, man, there's a ton of them on tick tock like they are. There's a ton real time.

Okay, so why are we not okay? There's a woman I ran into named Stephanie, and she does. She's autocate. You ever seen her?

Yeah, I saw her the other day.

Yeah. I just was kind of looking at her. We were chatting back and forth, kind of thinking, tell me your story. What do you do? Like, what is this? And she's. And she has a really cool idea. I was going to put this to you and see what you thought. She trains and she helps women, you know, learn about their cards. And they have a very all women course.

She sells memberships. Is it memberships or subscriptions? I can't remember. One of the ways to her customers, to the girls or the man or whoever for their time. So if they're out doing something and they get a bad estimate, they can call and say, membership number so and so and so. So you're not like, I have no time for you. No, I'm a paid subscriber. I'm like, huh, that's interesting. Like, if you want a review on a car or you want me to review an estimate you got from somebody else, or you want me to talk to the technician when you're in some other city, no problem.

That's the benefit of paying a subscription for my time. Like, interesting. But yeah, I think the mechanic technician shortage should be filled by whoever can fill it. And I think if women want to get into it, get into it, man. And then there's still going to be, you know, the misogyny problem that, you know, people taking the. Taking the piss too hard or weird innuendo type jokes and, you know, like, I think it's okay, grow up. But that's always gonna be there, and they're gonna have to get used to it. And that's part of it.

But that's what she said is a great line. Like, you can use it in so many places, right? That's what she said. And this is particularly, you know, lubricated today. It's like, that's what she said. Like, I mean, it'll never go away. And is it misogyny? Yeah, it's a little misogynistic. But, I mean.

But having said that, the women who are working in this industry, this isn't corporate America or corporate Canada. This is no HR department. You're gonna. I mean, we're not gonna. We might not, you know, razz you as hard, but you're gonna take shit and we're gonna shit talk. That's how we work in this industry.

Yeah.

So if you can't handle that to a degree like Charlie says, that exact line, that's what she said. She makes a joke, but she gets it. Right? Like, it. You know, if you're gonna come in here all delicate like a flower, you're not gonna make it regardless of your desire. So. Sorry. It's a tough industry. It's called blue collar for a reason.

Yeah, right. And I, you know, so that's the whole thing with the females in the. In. I had Megan, who was. And she's ahd tech, right? She was working at Hino. She's a former. She's been a guest there a couple months ago. Well, her store shut down where she was at.

So she messaged me the other day, and she's like, Kenworth came in and bought the property and bought the store. And, you know, they're going to use it as a. Whatever, an add on to theirs, and eventually. So anyway, she takes the job and she's like, I'm never going to have the shop environment that this shop had anywhere else. And then she feels really sad about that. Like, yeah, it was a very special thing that you guys had there. So that that might have been the reason there was a downfall. I don't know.

Right. I didn't see the numbers, but he said, you have to just take it that, like, everything will not always be perfect, but sometimes, you know, this job, you've got to look at it and go, if the worst part of the day was that I got a little bit offended, but the job that I did got done and went smooth. That's more important some days than being offended and having nobody to be able to help you.

Yeah. Get out of this isolated island, floating around there, trying to make a go of it. That's tougher.

Exactly. You know, and it's tough because it's like, you know, I've worked with female techs before, but they weren't predominant and they didn't last, and they didn't hang around for very long. And, you know, it was kind of like they played on their. On their, you know, the fact that they were the only one they played on that ability to get help a lot of the time. And then she showed me this whole other network of these, you know, ladies that are out there killing it. And then there's a lot of them that are out there, and it's like they're getting by on how they look.

You know, they know their angles when they're filming their videos.

Yeah, yeah. And, hey, listen, you know, hustle is hustle. Like, if you, you know, good on you. But there's the double standard there where, you know, I couldn't go out there in a belly shirt and get underneath. And anybody who wants my clicks wouldn't drive right off the algorithm. Right. So I'm not.

I'm not laughing at all.

No, it's good. I'm. My feelings are hurt that the algorithm doesn't blow up every time, but I accept it, you know, so there's pluses and minuses to both. My point, you know, it's what it seems like an obstacle for them, maybe. Could be. Can be a tool.

So, yeah, if they just want to be treated equally, then that's. I think. I think the tide is turning. I think there is a bit of a shift where, you know, it is 2024, and then the negative side, whether we've. I think you'd have to look pretty hard to find the shop that's like the guys from the movie the mask, you know, like the scabby backyard. What's this for? Almost $700. You know, like, I think, though, that's going. It's there.

Yeah.

But again, I use that phrase. It's not the rule. It's the exception now. And I think it was the other way before.

So, that new series on Netflix tires, have you watched it yet?

No. I suggested it today to my wife, and she looked at me and just went, why would you. I'm not watching you do that. When I go out, I said, okay, I'll watch that.

Yeah, it's, um. It's scary. Like, it's only six episodes. And, of course, it blew up last week. And everybody. All my friends have, like, oh, my God. Is it ever factual? Like, it's so. Yeah.

Which then some people are like, it doesn't paint us in such a flattering light. But then that might be good, because maybe then, collectively, we all kind of raise ourselves up just another three or 5%, you know, to get above that. And then, you know, some of the stereotypes maybe will just go away, and it'll become humor instead of reality.

So, yeah.

Any closing words, norm, for what you think about the industry or where you want to see it go?

I think. I don't know. I like this. Yeah. Like, like, I kind of touched on before a little more value based, not just for the customer, but for the tax as well. Like, get away from that heavy, profit driven, like, make money. I don't. I'm not for that, but that shouldn't be the only thing that.

That operates the shop, you know? And, like, yeah, I think we talked about it. Was I talking to BJ? I can't remember. But the toxicity in a culture of the shop is top down, for sure. But I'm very much at the Gary Vaynerchuk mentality. If you have one guy, if he's your top guy and he's poison, get rid of him, because that shit spreads like crazy and it makes it miserable for everybody. Right. But, yeah, and if that guy is a manager, well, that makes a little more difficult, but it's not impossible. And I think you got to have that happy work environment for the efficiency, to make money with good customers who understand the value that you're trying to create.

That's kind of where I would like to be anyway. And hopefully that translates into what I'm telling everyone, and hopefully somebody learns. One person learns from that, then that's a win, I think.

Yeah, you've got your series that you're talking about. You're going to start bringing to TikTok where you're going to talk about more and more how certain transactions go and what it means and how to navigate it from the customer side. I think that's going to be great. You know? Like, I don't want to see more and more people getting on there going, I got ripped off again. Right? Like, I'm tired of that old cliche. I want to get past it. You know, it immediately triggers me into a negative headspace when I hear it yet again, because it's always one sided, you know, we never get the tech's perspective, the shops perspective. It's always the customer.

I get it. That's where it comes from.

But, like, yeah, and I think customers need to empower themselves a little bit, saying, if you're mad or you're. If you're. If you're unhappy with something I've did or I've done, your car or the situation itself, tell me before you leave. Don't go. Thanks, bye. And then leave. And then get on the Internet and post about, or make a video about how terrible we are. Like, yeah, just tell me, I'll fix it.

You know, I'll make it right that's.

You know, we had it. We had a customer. You know, we're in a small community here, too, and people jump on the local Facebook group and say, oh, that shop's too expensive. They rip me off. Like, idiot. I live in this community. You not think I'm on that group? Like, I'm going to see. So, you know, when we call you up and say, hey, what happened? Like, the car left, you know what happened? And you won't return the call, you won't answer back.

You sound like you're just full of it at that point. Like, we probably didn't do anything wrong. You're just mad that it cost $700. You thought it should cost three. Now you're going to make some shit up. Like, that's how we take it.

You didn't want to spend $700. You didn't know what it should have been, but I didn't want to spend 700. Yeah, that's the problem.

I don't like that steak costs as much as it does, either. But, I mean, I still like deep steak, so I could just. I buy it. I got to just grumble about it, you know, that's all I can do. I don't have a cow in my backyard. So it's just. It is what it is. I hate to pay for things.

I hate to see things that have gone up in price, but, you know, I'm not going to make my local business life more difficult because of the cost. I'm gonna. I'm gonna blame the government, like every good canadian should, instead.

Yeah, obviously. Obviously.

Well, Norm, I want to thank you for coming on, man. It's been cool to get to know you. We don't always see exactly eye to eye, but I think we're a lot more aligned than probably what we thought. And I think that.

I think as we kind of learn and grow and everything, we coming from a good place, and I think that's where it all needs to end up. So, like, I'm learning as I go through this, too, so.

Yeah. And that's been always. My intent is just to make it better for all of us. It's never been about me against you, right? As a tech, as against an owner. You know, sometimes it comes across that way because I seem very steadfast and unwilling to bend. But, you know, it's.

Enjoy watching you rail up people and read the comments and get my popcorn out, and I'm reading away.

Well, it's like the, you know, the knuckle draggers, you said the guys that come on that are just obvious Diyers. And they get right in the middle of the conversation, go, oh, my truck does this. Like, the gauges will reset and it's not charging. And I'm like, dude, know the room, man. Like, nobody here cares. I do it the most on Chuck's, right? Because it's like, Chuck is so well known and everybody. And for, you know, he helps them, and then he'll be in there talking about the industry, nothing to do with it. And they'll be like, I got a 1998 Mercury Mountaineer.

That's, you know. Yeah, f off, dude.

Like, help me more. Free advice.

Yeah. We're adults talking here. Like, get out of the room. You know, like, nobody cares right now. It just. Nothing triggers me more than to see that, like, it as if we exist online to bail you out of problems so that you can avoid paying us at a shop. Because if that's why we're all there, that's not why I'm there. Not even close.

It was never even a consideration. I want to help people save money on car repairs. No, I want to see, you know, our lives.

What I. What I do. Like, I'll just end on this. What I do like is when I get comments on, like, a, you know, a pretty involved diagon. It's a guy or a girl who says, do I know anything about cars? No. Did I watch this video right to the end? Yes. You know, so maybe you glean some sort of nomenclature or system knowledge that might allow you to not be ripped off or be able to explain to us. My car goes.

It doesn't help me. My car makes a metallic sound going over a bump. Turning a corner while accelerating usually sounds like the left side. Hey, I can work with that. That's better. You know, help yourself. You know, it's easier.

I've just. I've talked to so many professional techs that, like, online, didn't do it for them because every time they tried to get online and have a serious conversation, if we didn't keep some of the qualifications of who's actually getting into the conversation as to being a professional level, it just becomes inundated with that DIY stuff, and they leave. So that's where I really come steadfast with the idea that, like, there's places for you out there in here. This is us. This is. And, you know, it's not an elite thing. It's just. I don't want to water it down with that.

So that's why, you know, sometimes I jump on other people's things and go, well, my go to answer is, well, you need to take it to a shop and get it diagnosed there, scooter, because, like, it's broken. And that's all the help I'm gonna give you. And. But I appreciate you. I appreciate our relationship. I think it's. I look forward to everything you post, and, I mean, I've learned a lot. So thank you for coming on.

Anytime, man. It's been a blast.

Yeah, any. Thank you for being a listener. Anytime you want to chew the fat like this again, let me know. I'd love to have you back.

All right, man. This is my podcast Cherry. You broke my podcast, Cherry.

I can tell you that people are going to be reaching out to you now. Honestly, happening, every time I do a podcast, I see more coming up, so more people go, I'm going to start a podcast. Anyway, folks, thank you. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and, like, comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASaw group and to the changing the industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for.

Here's hoping everyone finds their missing ten millimeter, and we'll see you all again next time. Close.

Trust, Certification, and Auto Repair Industry Issues with Norm Gieselman from TikTok, Part 2

Toyota Corolla

Mercury Mountaineer

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