Vintage Mercedes Benz: Are Younger Enthusiasts Buying them?

I am a visitor, Christopher. Christopher with the Mercedes-Benz T-shirt. That's what we're going to be talking about today, guys. Mercedes-Benz. We had a recent episode on BMW, specifically like M3s. Today we need to show love to the Mercedes-Benz fan group. We have some subject matter experts. All of you drive Mercedes-Benz. Let's actually go around the table. Let's talk about your cars that you own and maybe tell us your favorite.

Let's send why you own them, so we'll start with Mr. Christopher. I have a 1986-560 SEC. That was my uncle's originally special ordered back in 85. It's been in the family since new. I have a 93-192 E and an 88-300 E. The 190 E is very special to me. I grew up around it my whole life. My grandma had one from new that was supposed to be mine, but unfortunately I got an accident and got totaled. So I was on the search for about 10 years.

You said the SEC, so one you have here today, right? That's the two-door, pretty much S-class. It's the S-class of the 80s, correct? Nice. I like that car a lot. You keep it clean, too. Do my best. You're a big fan of keeping the car original and unrestored.

Correct, as much as possible. Yeah, so shed some light on that. Why is that? I just see it as, I mean, that's how the car was supposed to be back in the 80s, 90s, whenever it was produced and sold. I just feel like that's how it should stay, quite honestly. Yes, my 190 does have a bit of modifications, but nothing that's too crazy.

I agree. Drive it like a time capsule. Correct, as much as possible. Yeah, because I'm a big history guy, so I always think when I see a car, I mean, here in Analog and Grid, there's so many people that bring modded cars here, right?

And obviously they're excited to share what they've done to improve the car. Usually it's faster, usually it handles better, things like that. But I'm a historian, so I feel like when I see cars, I'm not actually a historian.

I just studied history as an college, but when I see a car, I want it to take it, I want it to take me back to that time period. So when I see period, correct wheels, period, correct steering wheel, shifter, all those things that it looked like back then, that makes me excited.

And not everyone is like that. People usually mod because they feel like, oh, it's going to improve the car. For example, there's some mods like air conditioning, ABS, or bigger brakes, better rotors. If you had drums and you changed them to discs, things that improve safety, then I'm totally cool with.

100%. But when it gets to changing the look of the car, that's not me. It doesn't always add value either. It doesn't add value. It takes away value actually.

And I've had this on the podcast. I had a friend of mine who was an appraiser. And so oftentimes people come in and praise their cars and they're like, yeah, but I added these new intake and I added this new, you know, these new headers and this and they start getting into it and they put all this money into the car.

And they think they're going to get that money back when really all it does is narrow the market. It shrinks the market because you have that car. It's designed to your taste, right?

Not to the taste of the general public. And most people want a car that appeals to the general public and stop form.

Correct.

Anyway, let's go on to Shelby. What do you have?

I have a 1982 380 SL or 107. And I also have a 2004 C320 station wagon. So Ben's loyal as well.

I love the SL. It was kind of like a quarter-life crisis because I had a 1983 version of the same car when I was a teenager. That was my first car.

So I wanted to get that back. So that's my project. And I love it very much. And then the wagon is also really great.

That's my daily and my little adventure car. I take it camping and slightly off-roading. Thank you for that.

But yeah, Mercedes are awesome. I love them very much. I make me very happy.

Okay. So the SL is what you have here today, right?

Yes, it is. Yeah, that's my little weekend car and my project car.

Okay. Is that the car that you said you had to get back? Right? You said you had a car that you needed to get back?

Yes, yeah. So yeah.

Yeah, because I had the 83 380 SL as a teenager crashed it because teenage girls, right?

And then I got my grandpa's Nissan Maxima. And I had that up until a while. And then I was just like, oh, this doesn't feel like me.

And I met Josh, the owner of Van Gogh and Grant. And he was like, yeah, this car is not you. What do you want?

And I was like, kind of want my SL back. He's like, all right, start sending me stuff, of course.

And I'm like, oh, boy, here we go. And then finally, we decide on this one. Same light ivory color, just a year older.

And it feels so good to drive it. It makes me just grin and smile. And yeah, that was the goal.

Yeah. And you said it's what chassis code again? R107. R107. Okay. And then the R129 is when I came afterward. Yes.

Because I'm learning here. That's why I have you guys here. Right? Mercedes Benz isn't my biggest strength. Like I've told him Dylan in the past.

We'll change that. Yeah, for sure.

I've told him, if anything, it's going to be, if it's German, it's going to be BMW that I like lean towards that I've owned and that I've always had like

somewhat of an affinity towards as a younger, you know, car enthusiast. But as I've gotten older, you know, you start to gravitate towards things that are more comfortable. Like your taste changes. Right?

Sure. Yeah. So all right. Dylan, tell us what Mercedes Benz do you own?

So currently I just have one Mercedes. I own several over the years, but I have a 1979 300 D station wagon, 300 TD.

Not to be confused with turbo diesel as a lot of people do. It's a naturally aspirated diesel. It's really slow. The T is the wagon designation. Mercedes used to use back in the day.

They don't really go with that anymore, but it's fun. It's just a great cruiser. It's my dream car. I saw it on the top gear Africa special back in the day. And ever since then, I've wanted to own one and managed to find one a few years back.

And I've had it ever since. Nice. Okay. Do you feel like and I want to obviously open the table to everyone? Open the conversation everyone? Do you feel like Mercedes Benz is driven less by young adolescents than BMW and Audi? Or are you seeing like maybe a shift in ownership of like people and let's say your age group in the 20s?

That's a good question. I think that at a surface level, a lot of young car enthusiasts might be more drawn to a BMW because it has a little bit more performance admittedly. I mean, if we're talking about BMW versus Mercedes from the 80s and 90s, the BMW is going to be the slightly sportier car, I think in most cases.

And I think the Mercedes is for the young people who are more into like old school craftsmanship rather than the people who just want to buy like an old sports car.

And I think those are the kind of people who appreciate the Mercedes a little bit more because the craftsmanship is there. That's really how they shine.

Okay. Yeah, don't win elements and be texts that's pseudo leather. Yeah, that's why I got mine. I like the look of it. Even though it's from the 80s, it's still got all this chrome. I'm like, oh my gosh, it just kind of looks like a car from the 60s. This is dope. And I don't need to go fast. I mean, speed limits only so much anyways. Yeah, you're a good point. A lot of people love the sport EVMWs.

Yeah. We talked about craftsmanship last week with Hamilton. Yeah. And he referred it to like old vintage Bentley's because I asked him like, you know, what's special about those cars you work on that apparently his boss owns and he works on these vintage, you know, European British specifically Bentley's that he said the craftsmanship is like next level.

You know, and obviously these are cars built. You know, we're talking 75 years ago. So like you mentioned like cars like the one you have is what 80s 90s 82 82 and you said it feels like it's from the 60s. Yeah, almost. Right. So like is that because of the build quality. Yeah. Yeah, it's the build quality and the features, you know, the big grand chrome bumpers, the big emblems and just like the sleek style of it and the body colors to like minds of light ivory and that just feels old.

And kind of rich, I guess. Okay. It just kind of stands out. I think for sure. Yeah, they kept them. They kept Mercedes has kept their cars from that time period. They kind of stuck with like retro styling for a little bit longer than BMW did rather than make them like futuristic looking. They just kind of like in my opinion did it right the first time. And that's why you see that Mercedes always have a long like chassis.

Like the chassis is made for a long period of time. Like your R107 is a prime example of that like from the 70s all the way up until what the second most produced body style after the G wagon.

And they look generally the same with the exception of maybe the bumpers got bigger or they got alloys instead of hubcaps but Mercedes kind of just stuck with that retro styling for a long time.

So they feel like like Shelby was saying they feel older but like they feel older like in a good way like all the design elements, the classic design elements are what make them feel older.

But drive modern. I mean, that's something else I'm sure we'll talk about.

Let's talk about reliability and I want to put you on a spot Shelby. So I noticed not too long ago you got a medallion or some type of badge from Mercedes Benz because you reached a like a monumental mileage point.

Yeah, so Mercedes Benz has the high mileage award and you submit paperwork to your global dealership, have somebody verify it and sign it off.

And the classic center in Long Beach will send you a medallion and a little certificate all sorts of cute stuff. And the you could probably help me out with this.

The first mile point is 155,000 miles correct. So and then after that I think is it 300,000 miles and then there's a third one for 550,000 miles and that one I think is only owned by a few people but Mercedes is like hey we know our cars are going to last and we want to reward you.

It's great. It's just a silly little fun free thing that I want to throw on the grill and yeah, it's a true testament to what these cars can do and how long they can last as long as of course you're keeping up with that and taking care of it because all cars need attention.

But yeah, it's super cool. So what did yours reach?

So the yeah, both cars right now are at over 155,000 miles, but I'm going to get to that 300 just for weight. At least for the SL I totally want to definitely can.

Yeah, okay. So you said 300. So there's a 300. There's a 500,000 plus and like do they like give you any type of like discount if you want to trade it in like are they going to be like all I will give you extra money for this thing.

I don't think it works that way. Just for your little grill badge.

Okay, okay. So just the badge. Okay. Well, that's cool though because it makes you I guess makes you feel like okay I've reached this goal now I need to reach the next one.

Because we're talking like to anything on a vintage car over 200,000 that's significant like speaking of BMW.

Jace showed me that his M5 has 199 on the dot right so he's about to turn over to 200,000 and you know we talked about this straight six engines like I think his is a his is the five series so it should be.

Yeah, like you know less friction more balance just like a great like design for an engine for a liability specifically.

Now I want to talk about Mercedes obviously so like what makes some of the older cars reliable.

I would say the first thing is the quality of the parts like all of the Bosch OEM parts that's mostly Bosch stuff.

You'll see I've seen for sale or even witnessed in person Mercedes diesels from the late 70s and early 80s that still have the original alternator the original starter.

A lot of the accessories on the engine that people just see as like disposable maintenance items on new cars were built to last a lifetime on Mercedes back in the day.

And at the time a lot of those parts were they're very serviceable so even if you see an original alternator who knows it could have been rebuilt at some point but the parts were not throw away parts they were parts that you could rebuild you could test you could.

The cars were designed in such a way that you could troubleshoot problems individually and rule out certain things so a lot of parts that didn't need to be replaced weren't replaced and I think with Mercedes in my opinion like if it ain't broke don't fix it because the new parts are not nearly the same quality even the OEM parts.

So that was the long answer but basically I would say the biggest thing for me that I've noticed personally witnessed is parts quality.

Okay that's fair I mean that's usually I mean today you could say you can argue that like parts a lot of parts been sharing right like you mentioned in the past like once Mercedes bends and Chrysler merged right now you're seeing Mercedes with Chrysler components and things like that right.

And then obviously now the quality is diminished and things of that nature so like maybe in the past they there was no parts been everything was like made specifically for that model right and there was less parts been sharing amongst the cars in their lineup right so what else like what about powertrains like what would be like the quintessential Ben Mercedes Benz powertrain.

I don't know what do you think Chris he's like probably experienced more than I have yeah I don't know I mean well they have V8s right like obviously an SS 117 engines definitely a good engine.

A lot of people don't like the M103's and M104's because they run warm but I mean if you do the correct maintenance and stuff to it they're fine but I mean I would go with an M117 engine out of all of them for sure.

Which applications.

Those are in the majority of the S classes of the 80s and 90s.

So like any of the 560s so the 560 SEC 560 SCL so on and so forth.

Okay.

Should be the top trim of those cars from the time.

So Dylan mentioned 1995 is like the year where after that things might have started to go down south.

To an extent.

What do you guys think?

Yeah maybe a little later.

I would say after 2002 2003 is when it kind of started to go south.

But I mean after 95 is when they started changing the numbers and letters so on and so forth.

They got a little bit more technology for that time.

So I think that hurts some somewhat.

Yeah.

I mean you could say the same for BMW people argue that BMW was at its like pinnacle during the late 90s early 2000s.

Turn it a century like E46 generation you know three series and the E38 E39.

Like all those sedans were pretty much like well even coups because the E46 was also a coupe.

You know like that's when BMW was also at a time.

So it could be just like not necessarily the brand.

It could necessarily be like you said technology right like once you start adding all these modern features and technology.

Now there's electrical issues right.

So maybe the power trains aren't the problem.

Maybe it's something else.

That cost cutting too.

That was the biggest factor because the power trains were always great.

Mercedes has always had great power trains.

The V8s from the early 2000s even in the cars that were plagued with other issues.

The engine and transmission in those cars will go forever.

Like you see them for sale even sometimes with 250 plus all day long.

But I will say to kind of give Mercedes a little more credit even those cars from the early 2000s.

A lot of the problems they were plagued with Audi and BMW were as well.

Because it's early electronics.

Everything's starting to become digital.

They're putting like nav in the cars.

They're putting you know all kinds of other stuff.

Distronic cruise sensors and they're just a lot more electronic so that they can be you know fancy and a little more comfortable and advanced.

But everybody was kind of figuring it out and a rush trying to rush the cars to the market.

So a lot of those cars are plagued with the same issues.

Air suspension problems.

You know, Audi's are known for that from the same time period as well like a D2S8.

If we were to compare that to an S class.

Yeah.

You'd see a lot of crossover in general reliability issues.

When I think what a lot of people forget is Mercedes, BMW, Audi are like five years ahead of Toyota, Lexus, so on and so forth.

So they're the ones that are trying these things out first.

Absolutely.

Yeah. The guinea pig sometimes.

That's a bold statement you just said.

You think?

I'm not saying I disagree.

I'm just saying it's a bold statement.

You're saying they're light year.

Well how many years ahead?

I would say at least three to five years.

Okay.

So the S class, right?

I would say the S class is like the innovator, right?

When an S class comes out and they have like, for example, ambient lighting, right?

Or some type of technology in their car, let's say in 2014.

Then the E class gets it, the C class gets it usually three, four years later, something like that, right?

And it trickles down into every pretty much car in their lineup maybe five years later.

It's in an A class.

You see ambient lighting now.

But my point is is they're not only doing it for their own brand.

They're doing it obviously for other brands too.

Just at the bar.

And the S class has been doing that for how long now?

Forever.

I mean ever since it, even before it received the S class designation in the 70s,

the suspension technology and the stuff from the late 60s and early 70s was always advanced,

I believe Mercedes was the first to do like a three-point seatbelt, like standard in all their cars.

Mercedes, right?

Mercedes involved, oh yeah.

I know both of them kind of pioneered that safety technology, but Mercedes was one of the first.

Okay.

For like an example, Dishronic is like, I mean it drives the car for you in a way, kind of like the modern cars.

Dishronic was in the W140 back in 93.

No other car makes to that.

What is Dishronic?

Dishronic is like adaptive cruise control.

Oh, okay.

I'm kind of a real dimmed down version of like Super Riceite nowadays.

Okay.

I see.

Yeah.

It'll just paste the car in front of you basically.

Okay.

It's not maybe like a new car that has autopilot where it'll bring you to a complete stop and take you back up to speed,

but it'll make sure you don't slam into the car in front of you.

It does it's best.

I mean you still need to be attention.

Yeah, yeah.

Would you trust it?

Would you trust it in a 93 today on the freeway?

Probably not.

Okay.

I stayed out because I'm in a GL63 right now.

I told you the car that I'm currently driving.

It's actually parked outside.

GL63 is 2017.

And drives great.

Obviously it's super like visceral and burly.

It's like all this 577 horsepower in a big, I would say mid to full size SUV.

But it's a 2017.

There's some quirks.

There's some radar sensor stuff that happened.

I drove it to LA this past weekend and long story short, a lot of like beeping going on.

Right?

Like it's like the little radar in the front on the hood, right behind the infotainment screen.

And I don't know what the beeping is.

Right?

So my guess is these are certain things.

Like anything that's a radar because at first the light turned green and my fiance was like,

oh, it tells you when the light's green and it knows for you to go.

You know how some cars do that now?

Yeah.

When the car in front of you goes forward, it'll beep like now you can go if you're still stopped.

But no, it's not that.

I was just a coincidence.

It just turned green and then it started beeping.

Because even when the light was red, it was beeping.

And it was just whenever I was at a stop, it would just start beeping randomly.

Right?

So I guess my point is, is that and it's not just Mercedes, it's all cars.

Right?

There are anything like radar sensors.

I feel like they're not Asian well.

No.

It's too much.

Now we have, it's kind of funny with some of the early 2000s stuff.

Because they had like literally like sensors and beepers and all that good stuff.

But now they've kind of just gone to like cameras.

Now that camera technology is so well.

And honestly, I think that that's an improvement because the sensors can be finicky.

Yeah.

And Mercedes, it's sometimes, it's good for them, but it's also detrimental that they kind of stick with what they know.

So maybe they'll drag something out for a little bit longer, a technology out for longer than another car company would.

But if we're comparing like a e-class to like a five series or what not.

I think you're going to see that like if we look at cars from the same year that the Mercedes is not going to have those same problems.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, because like I said, if it's something technology related, I feel like that's going to be the death of a,

or it's going to hurt the reputation of a car brand.

Like I always defend out for a mayo because I own them and it's like electrical gremlins.

That's why they're not reliable.

It's not because their engines are shit or their transmissions are garbage.

But I feel like that's what the new cars, that's what's plaguing the new cars right now.

Right, where you guys are driving vintage cars that don't have those electrical components or sensors and radars in them.

So that's why we love them because they're just so more analog.

Right.

It's great to have.

It's cool, but like maybe on a three year lease and then I could just return it on year four.

Exactly.

Oh, I agree.

100% 100%.

Just to have fun with it, like it's always fun to rent one of those cars if you have to take your car to the dealership and they give you a new thing.

It's like, okay, cool.

That was a whistles, but at the end of the day, it's like, oh, this is too much.

Like get it out of my face.

I just want to drive.

Yeah.

One thing that I would like to note has not been lost over the years with Mercedes is if I go out and buy a brand new C class right now.

If I plan on putting a lot of miles on it in a short time, as long as I do all the services, it will be a reliable car in the high miles.

Like you'll see C classes for sale that have been well maintained, that have close to 300,000 on them.

And we're talking like a 2017 C300, which is twin turbo direct injection, like a very modern fancy engine and it's still reliable if you take care of it.

So you're saying that the C class is way more reliable than a three series?

I don't know.

I mean, I don't really want to say that I think all new cars are generally better at being reliable for a long time if they're serviced, but yeah, I don't really know.

But I have personally witnessed very high mileage modern C classes.

They're still like built to a standard to an extent.

Like if you take care of them, they'll let you know, like you'll get a notification on the dash, just bring it in and do the service and it'll be a good car for a long time.

I don't think that has been lost over the years with Mercedes.

Okay.

Because that's fair.

As long as it's serviced correctly, people don't service Mercedes correctly and that's a huge issue.

Yep.

You know going to Valveline or Jiffy Loub.

That's how you're going to screw your car up.

Yeah, well, that's the thing.

I mean, it's like these German car brands like require you to use the, like it's very finicky.

You can't use an oil that's not the brand or something like to that nature.

Is that safe to say like even oil and oil filter?

I mean, Mercedes oil filters aren't that expensive when they're still made.

Yeah.

Just buy that instead of buying a wax or whatever, you know, in my personal opinion.

Yeah, it's just like people avoid the dealer because of cost.

They feel like the dealer chooses a markup that is unnecessary with certain things.

You know, so I can see why they avoid going into dealers specifically.

Even a good third party repair shop, though, you know, is still can do great service on your car.

Sometimes better than the dealer.

Okay.

Sorry, Mercedes.

No.

I'm with you.

It's just it's a shame when people get a Mercedes and they don't know what it is.

And they go and they have to get something fixed and they see how expensive it is

in comparison to their old Toyota they used to have.

And then they just get rid of the car because they can't be bothered.

It's like, what would you expect?

You're buying a quality vehicle.

You got to pay for quality service.

It's so worth it in the long run.

Yeah, it's a good point, especially today, right?

Because like all the, you know, like you was saying these vehicles that

they're only going to last if you take care of them.

But we've talked about like modern cars not lasting, not being as reliable as the past

because they know you're going to just lease another one.

So maybe the build quality isn't there.

Like it used to be because of like planned obsolescence.

You know, you buy a new iPhone or a new phone every couple of years.

So what's the point of building a great quality car that's going to feel sturdy

and feel like, you know, the build quality has been no exceptions made when this car was created.

You know, no, like no corners were cut.

And people don't say that anymore.

They say, okay, like the, the older cars, like they didn't cut corners back then.

Because people kept them 10, 15 years, you know.

So like today, oh, I'll just, the new C-class just came out.

Oh, I want that one.

I'm going to return mine and get the new C-class because I want them.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

You know, that's a great point.

There's somebody in my office at my job.

And he's got the brand new GLE plus whatever.

I don't know what's the electric Mercedes.

And that thing is at the dealership almost every week.

And here I am pulling up in my 82 SL.

And I'm like, oh, it's wrong if you cry.

I got another loaner.

He's like, yeah, there's something wrong with this and this.

And I'm like, okay, well, why don't they stop?

Like, but then again, I'm just very anti EV.

But yeah, that's the idea.

I think they want to keep you coming back getting the next model.

That's one thing I like, I would like to say about Chris.

I give Chris so much credit for is he's like dedicated to like daily driving a vintage car.

And I'm the same way like whatever Chris is driving on any given day is always an old car.

Like even just for a commute.

Really?

Yeah.

And I think Mercedes are perfect for that.

Yeah.

Yeah, 100%.

Okay.

Why?

I think it's comfortable.

It's still classy.

It stands out from the rest.

I don't know.

I mean, you get looks constantly.

I mean, I don't love attention, but you drive the 560 public.

You can guess somebody's going to ask you something.

I have so many people ask me if I wanted to sell it.

And I would never.

Yeah, they have a feel.

And I think I want to see if you guys agree.

But driving a vintage Mercedes, they just have a feel that like it's almost hard to articulate.

Like they just feel like just well sorted and refined.

Like they might not be the best handling car on the road, but they handle predictably.

They have plenty of they have enough power.

They're comfortable.

They're quiet.

You don't have interior creeks or rattles like you would expect on BMW.

And so I just think something about that just makes them well suited for a vintage daily driver.

It was just built to last.

Those cars were built to last.

They're like bank vaults of doors.

I mean, open and close a new one.

Yeah, I love it.

They sound really tinny.

You open and close an 80s or 90s.

And it sounds like it's really made for quality.

I could tell you the GLE 63, that door is heavy.

That thing slams like a like shut like a vault.

Which tells you like, okay, they're not skimping out on quality even today.

But I mean, but that's those $110,000 car brand new.

It's funny you mentioned that because I saw a video on Instagram the other day of a compilation of somebody slamming the S class door from every generation.

And I wanted and I wanted to like think that the older S classes had a better sound.

But like, they just, they all, all of them sound like that bank vault sound that Chris is describing.

Like, they, they've still kind of stuck to the original MO with that car, particularly the S class.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, people say they all, they don't sound like this anymore.

Well, you challenge that if like, I'm seeing it in a 2017 and obviously S class has never never lost that.

Right.

So I think it's just people want to believe that they don't like that.

That's just the saying that the older generation continues to always, you know, put out there.

Oh, they don't make them like this anymore, right?

I've done a trip.

Well, yeah, that's why we're here talking about vintage Mercedes-Benz.

But you could say like, confidently, like even the modern ones still like have great build quality,

it's more like the electronics, it's more of like the stuff.

Just more to go wrong.

That's all.

Exactly.

There's more to go wrong.

So it's safe to say that overall Mercedes-Benz is still a very good reliable brand.

I think so.

If you had a choose.

It's all only on Mercedes.

Yeah.

I mean, their slogan is the best or nothing.

And you have to remember, they were the first one to make an automobile.

And that's what I always kind of go.

All right.

If you're not first or last.

100% agree.

Yeah.

Have you ever seen it in the, it's at the Peterson Museum?

The first car that, um...

No, but I've seen replicas.

I've seen one out in Newport, Rhode Island when they have the Adrien Concord.

And so at the Adrien Museum.

Oh, you've been to that?

Yeah.

And that's actually happening this week and I'm so sad that I can't go.

Oh, really?

But, um...

It's remarkable.

Exactly.

Yeah, he's the curator.

Yeah, him and Jay Leno.

I always watched it.

Yeah, it's so fun.

Yeah.

So they had something similar there.

And then there's actually a deer park winery out here in San Diego County.

And they have kind of a replica of the first Mercedes too.

Oh, how cool.

Yeah, it's super cute.

It's a little wooden rickety thing.

But, you know, probably a single cylinder.

But it's cool.

Okay.

One thing that I think is an overarching theme here as we talk about Mercedes quality is, like,

older Mercedes, they didn't have the budget department in mind.

Like, they just built the cars and then they priced them after they built them.

Spent millions of dollars in development.

I mean, for 123s, for the R107s, for the 126s, all of those cars,

Mercedes spent an insane amount of money developing them.

And then they gave you the price.

And now it's the other way around.

Yeah.

So that is out of everything we could debate parts quality and this and that.

But out of everything, that's the overarching.

That's the biggest thing I think that has affected them over the years.

Yeah, that's an excellent point.

I mean, it's a modern day business.

Like, most companies now are always looking at the bottom line, right?

I mean, yeah, you have to.

But maybe back then, it was just a different time.

And they can get away with just making great quality cars.

And they'll know people will still buy them.

But there's so much competition today, right?

Like the luxury car, the luxury brand, like that particular segment or that class is full of competition.

It's not just European.

It's Japanese.

It's American.

Where, like, back then, maybe it was just American.

They didn't really have to compete with Audi and even some of the British brands,

because they were all like boutique brands anyway.

Even the Italian companies like Alfa Romeo or even, you know, what's the Volvo, right?

Like Volvo is technically a European luxury brand.

They have to compete with today.

And I agree with Chris that like Mercedes in terms of tech has always been like three to five years ahead of like the Japanese cars.

But one big thing that changed all that is the Lexus LS400 really did give Mercedes a run for their money.

Because at the time it was cheaper so people could justify it maybe not being as great.

And they were still plenty happy with the car.

It was quiet.

It was reliable.

And then that's when they were like, okay, earlier in the 80s and the 70s they could capitalize on being that, you know, expensive high quality brand.

Maybe they had to invest a little more money early on to even sell cars, make them popular in the US.

But now with all the competitors and starting with the LS400 over all cars, that's what really started to change things.

Yeah, there, I mean there's the whole like we have some visitors here.

There is the whole marketing campaign on the LS400 with the wine glasses, champagne glasses on the hood.

And it showed you like they were all full and it would show you with the car running.

Like nothing spilled out of them.

Like that was their whole like motto was how quiet it was, which is like what made this class special.

But that's like typical capitalism, you know, like you got to have competition.

You can have a monopoly on having the full size luxury sedan.

Right.

And that was what 1990, 1989, give or take where the LS came out.

Yeah.

Good point.

I do want to talk about in segue to something that a famous YouTuber said not too long ago, Doug Demiro talked about cars that were going up in value.

And he specifically talked about BMWs from the 90s and 2000s.

How those cars were going to continue like the M versions of those cars, right.

So obviously Mercedes is AMG, which is the M competitor.

But he said something specific that I thought was interesting.

And you know, you guys all listen to it before we start recording.

But that BMWs are going to go up in value because they were the ultimate driving machine.

The cars that came after it never really felt the same.

And like, you know, they were more analog in the 90s and 2000s and younger like the younger demographic.

Even then, you know, we could all safely say BMW is like more geared towards a younger demographic.

Mercedes Benz was always geared towards a more adult sophisticated demographic.

But now values are essentially dictating that too.

So the BMWs, he's saying he's for seeing.

He's not saying like he's not back in his up with data today.

But more or less saying that BMWs from the 90s and 2000s are going to go up in value.

And Mercedes Benz's from the 90s and 2000s are not going to go up in value because the younger demographic aren't gravitating towards them.

They they're just like, you know, they were always designed for that older sophisticated person.

So they don't appeal maybe to a younger generation, like because what's going to help cars go up in value?

A younger generation has to start buying them, right? Like you look at pre-war cars.

Cars from like our parents, great like our grandparents generation.

We're not buying those because they don't really have, there's no nostalgia there, right?

They don't mean anything to us because like their cars that we never grew up with.

But these cars, you remember them, right? When you were a kid.

So like, what's going to help drive the values up, the nostalgia, things like that, right?

Obviously the appeal of the car. What do you guys think?

Do you agree with what is statement or do you feel like a younger generation could be buying up vintage Mercedes Benz's driving the values up?

I totally think so. I don't know if it's because we're down here in Southern California and we see a lot of really cool builds.

But I've definitely seen some people who buy the wagon of like my area, the W203 and like bag it and make it cool and sporty and engines warp it.

You know, they're doing the same stuff that they would with a sporty little fun BMW.

You know, these Mercedes don't have to be stately anymore and old money and whatnot.

They can still make it fun and new and then put carbon fiber on it.

So I definitely see the market for it. But who knows? Maybe Dr. Mears, right?

I think the perfect car to look at would be the 190 E Mercedes because I mean I don't have any numbers in front of me right now.

But who would have thought that like those would ever really be like desirable or worth anything?

Like at the time of few years after they were new they were like kind of seen as like disposable.

Despite being good quality cars, they just weren't, they were cheap.

People who bought them liked them. It got them into a Mercedes and then eventually they made more money and they bought another Mercedes.

Yeah.

So for that reason they weren't really sought after but now they're really having a revival.

I'm seeing a lot of young people buying 190 E's.

All variations, the four cylinders, the six cylinders.

People are starting to learn about the cause worth and wanting to own one, having it as like a bucket list car.

So I think in terms of like enthusiasm for young people, that's the perfect car to look at.

And then also the, also the early AMGs from the early 2000s, the E55, the C55, all of those cars.

So I think maybe, you know, if we want people to put, young people to preserve cars like your R107 or my 300 D,

those are getting a little bit cheaper right now, but I think it's going to more than make up for it with some of the other cars that are having a major resurgence.

Okay. What do you think Chris?

Oh, I don't agree with Dr. Miro. Sorry.

In general. I think, I mean, you can get a 190 E nowadays for cheap.

I mean, I may not be in the best shape, but I mean, it's a good entry level Mercedes.

I mean, I've seen people do tons of different things to them.

I mean, people convert, it's a regular two, three, put a 16 valve engine in it, put a dog leg transmission.

Yes, it's not technically a cause worth, but I mean, it's close enough.

And you can do that for less than you could buy, say, a mid 2000s M series or, you know, I just feel like Mercedes is the right way to go.

Yes, it may not be as sporty, but it's more comfortable.

It has class, I think, and I think it really holds to a different standard, quite honestly.

Yeah. I mean, older BMWs are nice also, but I'm just Mercedes.

Well, no, you bring up a point like, you know, they set the standard. They're more comfortable.

Like, but what is going to make a younger gender like a, let's say someone in their mid 20s, right?

Now that they got a real job, they're in their career, they have money, you know, maybe they remember a vintage BMW,

they remember a vintage Mercedes Benz, but what's going to make them choose the Mercedes Benz over the BMW?

Usually to someone who's in their 20s, sporty, right? Oh, it's got to be sporty.

So like the 190 is a perfect platform, because, you know, like Ro mentioned there in the BMW episode,

that he bought that car because he remembers watching DTM races and had the 190, you know, the homologation car was the EVO.

Like, we didn't know, I don't believe we got the EVO in the US, but he ended up buying a Cosworth because that's like the next best thing that we did end up getting.

But my point is, is that's a sporty car, right?

Right. So there are cars out there and like, you know, you mentioned early 2000s AMG cars with the perfect example.

I think that those cars, they kind of have the same similar appeal to like the BMWs.

So even somebody who's a BMW fan, like a young enthusiast who's a BMW fan could easily cross shop like an E55 or a C55 or one have you.

They still kind of have a similar appeal, and that's why I think that those are the ones or like the 190s, like we said, that, you know, a lot of people, younger people will latch onto.

And then like Shelby mentioned, cars that people are just lowering or putting on bags.

Like, I know Josh here at Analog and grit had the, what is it, the 430, the S class?

It's a 72 280 SE, SEL.

SEL. Right, right. So like, you see, I mean, that's, that's like what, 60s, right? That's like out, that's way beyond the kind of generation we're talking.

But just like, you can put a Mercedes-Benz in the same, like, conversation as like a, like how people bag LSs and, and do like these, um, chandeliers.

And, and what, what, what, what, what are they called VIP, VIP bills? Like I've seen, I've seen Mercedes-Benz VIP builds too.

So like, it kind of crosses all like levels.

Yeah, I actually brought that up actually because that's where the older ones stick out to younger people is like, leave them stock, keep them beautiful, and just bag them and put in some Venetian shades or something like that.

You could do that if you want to, and they look great.

Yeah. So there's like many layers to it. It's not just the sporty cars, you know, because to his point, he's saying they don't have that sporty appeal.

They were all like meant for comfort and sophistication and younger, like younger buyers aren't going to buy those.

So you can modify it to however you want it. You can make it sporty, you can make it classy, you can make it a track car. I mean, I think Mercedes is very versatile.

A car like Chris' 560 is a good example of that too. You could do that. If you wanted something sporty, you could do the AMG body kit and suspension from the time period.

And have yourself something that looks like a V890's muscle car and a tuxedo, basically, or you could put some older style wheels on it.

Maybe some white striped tires and lower it tastefully and you can go that route too.

I think that era of Mercedes will definitely have its moment because the 80s era of Mercedes is having a moment right now.

Just with like at least the R107 is in a lot of music videos and marketing for fashion brands and whatnot and every's on this whole old money kick.

So maybe the next thing will be like this revival of like 90s early 2000s Y2K.

Like I want the station wagon that my mom had that I grew up in and like do something fun with it. So I think it's going to happen. Everything has its time.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.

I honestly personally when I came to analog and grit and I saw how many people drove like the 190 platform, you know, or even the E-class.

Like I'm seeing all these people coming in with them, like initially I would see a lot of E30s right like in the past.

I remember a garage collective. A lot of people had E30 BMWs.

And now I'm starting to see the Mercedes Benz version, right, which is what platform is like the C-class.

So it's the 190 from like that generation.

The 201.

Yeah, that would be like a 190.

That would be the competitor to the E30 of the time for sure.

And I see so many here at the garage.

So yeah, that's a good point.

I did want to change gears a little bit and talk about you guys individually before we wrap up.

So I asked this to everyone on the podcast, what makes you a car enthusiast?

Or what started your enthusiasm for classic cars, all cars in general?

I guess for me, it's always been, I was very fortunate to have a dad who was in the cars growing up,

whether it be picking up cheap deals on Craigslist and bringing them home sometimes against my mom's will, but did it anyways.

Having those kind of cars, getting to work on a variety of cars and see a variety of cars as a kid,

and then my dad was an instructor in the PCA.

So he taught dentists how not to crash their 911s, basically.

So spent a lot of time track side, and it just kind of, it's almost sometimes a hard question to answer

because there was never like a singular point or moment that like made me a car enthusiast.

This has just kind of like always been part of my day to day.

And I'm very thankful for that.

That's fair.

Well, it wouldn't have in any other way.

Yeah.

Okay.

What do you have?

For me, it was the same thing.

It was family.

So my grandfather was a car guy through and through.

He was in World War II, came home and wanted to start building cars.

Him and his buddy bought a car, or we'll build a car from scratch.

He also had his dues license, and so I always grew up around fun little sports cars.

Like, you know, a daily and then a sports car.

And yeah, that was it.

I just loved going fast in his 96 Mustang.

And it's funny because I was a Mustang and like Ford Shelby Cobra person first,

before Mercedes, of course, my name is Shelby like that.

And that kind of went hand in hand with it too, because being a little girl and being like,

oh, your name's Shelby, you must be in a car.

And I was like, what?

Yeah.

And looking at the old auto trader magazines that Grandpa would have, that's what got me into it.

And then just, I don't know, automotive and machinery is really fun to me.

Like, I love Rolla Coasters too, so maybe that kind of has a hand in it.

And yeah, it's a great community to be a part of, especially like as a girl too.

There's a lot of girls in it more and more.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun because we have cars.

We need the cars.

And it's a big part of our life.

You spend a good majority of your time sitting down in a car, so you might as well enjoy it.

Absolutely.

You see, you know, what's out there, maybe you don't have to have a Honda Civic.

Like, you know, there's a lot out there.

Enjoy it.

Poor Honda Civic.

You know, just like, you know, your NPC car.

Yeah.

So for me, you know, have something with some flair and fun.

Yeah.

Got me into it.

Gotcha.

Okay.

About you, Chris.

Honestly, what got me into is, I've been around Mercedes my whole life.

I mean, the one car that really got me into Mercedes was actually my grandma's 190.

I spent a lot of time in it growing up.

My mom's always had a Mercedes, my uncle, my dad, so on and so forth.

And I don't know.

I just kind of got me into cars.

I mean, my parents really aren't into cars.

And really nobody in my family really is.

But just being around Mercedes and the brand.

I don't know.

I just really always loved it.

And I don't think I could really change it.

Honestly.

Yeah.

So it sounds like you're not a car enthusiast.

You're just a Mercedes Benz enthusiast.

I am a car enthusiast.

Yeah.

Mercedes is really.

Yeah.

Really worth it.

They're taking things since Mercedes Benz.

And I can respect the American cars so on and so forth.

I mean, I can respect them.

But you've got one in the lineup, bro.

I do have one in the lineup.

That we've yet to see.

I have it up.

Wait till you see what you got.

I have an 87 Caprice wagon.

That was my grandpa.

Oh my god.

Okay.

Does it have wood on it?

Yeah.

Awesome.

That's cool.

Isn't there one in the garage?

There is much older Caprice wagon.

Right.

Yeah.

Like a late 60s Caprice wagon.

Okay.

So yours kind of looks like the because it's technically it's a Ford.

Right.

So it's not.

Check it.

No.

Check it.

some light on the event and some things that are happening?

Yeah, so on the other hand, I kind of run membership here at ANG with Josh and Nick.

And we're working and collaborating for Cartoberfest.

We want to make this really special and really fun.

We're going to have a big beer hall situation.

I'm working with the German American Association here in San Diego

to try to come up with very traditional games that we can play as well.

And I want to go and get some traditional brought words.

So I'm a pretty big German person.

I've a lot of German heritage in my body.

I guess that's why I like the Mercedes too.

But yeah, so we're working on that.

And then obviously, Cartoberfest.

We're probably going to get back into going to Rancho San Fe,

more and more, and hit up that crowd.

So just keep tabs on our Instagram.

And see what we're up to because something always pops up.

I mean, even yesterday with the Hot Wheels thing,

I think that was kind of like a last minute thing.

But we're always cruising.

So come find us.

Yeah, but Cartoberfest will be here.

Yes, so my apologies.

So we'll be here.

I believe there will be an emission fee for $20.

I think we're still working on that.

But if you were dressed up in traditional like later Hosen

or the female version of like a dwindled dress,

your admission will be free.

Okay.

Don't quote me on that.

It might be.

I heard the same.

Yeah, I think Dan was saying that.

Yeah.

And that's October 25th.

I believe so.

Yes.

That's Saturday, the last Saturday.

Do you know the times by any chance?

I think we're still playing around with the time

just because of sunset and everything.

Okay, so it might be like a night event.

Because you were saying it's going to be a night event, right?

Maybe later, it'll start later in the early afternoon

and go into the night.

Got you.

Because yeah, we're considering it conflicts with Radwood.

So we're considering going to Radwood that day.

So yeah, and that's a morning thing, I believe.

We still got some time.

The only thing with like getting your car,

whenever you like to play a car event,

you have to stay throughout the duration of the event.

They won't let you like pull out.

Yeah.

For one like Radwood.

Yeah.

So you got to consider that if you do a displayed at Geostorm.

I will be.

You can count on that.

The perfect place for it.

Nice.

Yeah, it is.

And then lastly, Mazda Miata.

Hopefully that thing might be sold.

But by the time we're done here.

Yeah, we'll see we had a perfect guy wants to pick up this Miata.

We were talking about in the last episode as his daughter's first car.

Which I can really appreciate because that's another one of those cars

that's not a Mercedes.

That if you own one and drive one, it'll get you into cars.

Yeah.

And its own way.

And it's a manual.

Pop-up headlights.

I feel like the any Miata is like the like perfect car

to kind of make you a car enthusiast.

Yeah, absolutely.

I agree.

It just has everything.

It checks every box.

And especially for someone that's a new car driver,

it's not going to be that fast.

You shouldn't wrap it around a pole.

Yeah, easy, easy dimensions.

Very easy car to drive.

Just and just fun.

Something about it.

Well, thank you guys for coming on the analog and great podcast.

Chris Shelby.

So, perfect, perfect segway to our conclusion.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's great.

Glad to have you guys.

Mercedes Benz obviously needs love too.

Because, you know, we can't just talk about BMWs and alpha or mails

and geo-stores all the time.

Emporcious.

All right, guys, until next time on the analog and great podcast.

We'll see you next week.

Mercedes-Benz Sclass

Nissan Maxima

G-Class G Wagon

BMW M5

BMW E46

BMW E39

BMW E38

Mercedes-Benz Eclass

Mercedes-Benz Cclass

Fiat 126

Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG

Porsche 911

Ford Mustang

Shelby Cobra

Honda Civic

Holden Caprice

Mazda MX-5 / Miata

About this episode

Original notes