Welcome to Life After Cars
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Hey everyone, it's Doug.
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This is Life After Cars.
It is?
No, we haven't renamed the podcast, but this is a big day.
Yeah.
I'm Doug Gordon.
I'm Sarah Goodyear.
And as you are listening to this episode, whether you are listening to it on the
day it comes out, the day after or a year later, our book, Life After Cars, Freeing
Ourselves from the Tyranny of the Automobile is now out.
Yeah.
You know, you wait and wait and wait for something like this, and it's been a two
and a half year process altogether from the time that we really decided we're
going to write this book, wrote the proposal, shopped it around, then had to write
the book when we were...
Yeah, that happens after you sell the book.
You do have to write the book.
Yeah.
The proposal, you can't just publish the proposal.
The proposal was so detailed and long that sometimes I was like, could we just do this?
But yeah.
And then just the whole writing of the book.
And then there's another year after you hand in the full manuscript when you're
going through the editing process, the copy editing, fact checking.
And now it's like, wow, it's happening.
Okay.
So hold on to all of those thoughts.
Let's treat this a little bit like a regular episode.
Folks, it's going to be a little weird because we don't have a guest.
We don't really have a subject for this episode other than the book is out.
We're going to get into some of it a little bit, give you a preview.
But let's do what we normally do, Sarah.
First, some business.
You can buy our book, Life After Cars, Freeing Ourselves from the Tyranny of
the automobile, wherever books are sold.
And I highly suggest you do buy it.
You can also go to lifeaftercars.com to find out more about it.
And we are going out on tour.
So by the time this episode drops, there will probably be new cities to this
list that I'm going to read.
The list of cities that we're visiting is expanding literally by the day.
We're getting all these great emails from folks and advocacy
organizations and bookstores around the country, in Canada, Europe,
although we're not headed there just yet.
But the book comes out on October 21st.
The day this episode drops, two days after it comes out, we will be on our
way to San Francisco for two events.
One at the Litquake Festival in San Francisco.
The other with the Yimbi Action at the Grand Theater in San Francisco.
Then we will be at the Black Cat in Washington, DC on October 30th.
We will be in Seattle on November 5th with City Nerd.
That show is sold out, but you can get live stream tickets.
We will be in Vancouver with Vision Zero Vancouver.
We will be in Nanaimo, British Columbia, with Strong Towns Nanaimo.
November 13th, Portland, war-torn Portland, Oregon.
We are going to go in our frog costumes and we are going to read from the book.
We're really excited to be in Portland.
Love Portland.
We're doing something at the Bike Happy Hour with Bike Portland.
We're really excited about that.
Legends.
November 16th, San Diego.
November 17th, Los Angeles, California.
December 2nd, Providence, Rhode Island.
December 4th and December 5th, we will be at two events in Austin.
December 10th, Houston.
December 12th, Denver.
And that is just the end of 2025.
We've got lots of stuff for 2026.
I will not go through the whole list because that would be the whole episode.
We also, I should say, have our show in Brooklyn on October 28th at the Bell House.
I think it might be sold out.
But check, they might release a few extra tickets as we get closer to the actual show.
Again, that's Tuesday, October 28th, with an amazing special guest,
Jeanette Sadekhan, who I just got to shout out, her book Street Fight and all the work
that she did to make this city and other cities.
The cities that they are today.
I don't think there's life after cars without Street Fight.
There's definitely not life after cars without the work that she pioneered.
And we're going to get into that at our live show.
We're so grateful that she will be there.
Yeah, I mean, I think that Jeanette's work and Jeanette's example really epitomize
something that we talk about a lot in the book, which is the importance of political
leadership and integrity, sticking to your guns, believing in your design,
believing in the principles that are animating what you're doing and being able
to just stand and take questions and address concerns and say, you know what?
We're going to go ahead and do this.
And you're going to see that it's going to make life better for everybody.
And there's nobody in New York right now who would say, oh, I think we should go back
to having Times Square be just traffic lanes or get rid of city bike or get rid of city bike
or get rid of all the dozens of pedestrian plazas that have sprung up around the city.
Well, there are probably two people who believe that Andrew Cuomo and Curtis Liewa
who are running from there.
And that's just a reminder.
If you are in New York City, go ahead and cast your vote for Zoran Mamdani.
I am going to just say right here.
We are not a non-profit.
We can endorse, we're allowed to endorse candidates.
Yeah, exactly.
And, you know, and I think it's really important if you care about these issues
to elect people who actually believe in things.
And while Curtis Liewa certainly fits that description, he doesn't believe
in the same things that I believe in.
Andrew Cuomo apparently doesn't believe in anything as far as I can tell.
He believes in putting his hands wherever he wants to put his hands.
That's right.
And also in taking money from whoever has a lot of money to give him.
Yeah.
But I think we told you this was going to be a weird episode.
We are giddy with excitement that this book is coming out.
Yeah.
Let's finish up the business.
We are also on Patreon.
We are.
At patreon.com slash the war on cars pod.
If you support us, you make everything possible.
The podcast, the book.
Everything.
And our Patreon supporters get first dibs at most of the tickets for our
live shows and also get special things related to the book.
So, you know, please sign up.
And I would just like to say that as much as Jeanette Sadegkan is part
of what made life after cars possible, the book, I would like to say that
our Patreon supporters certainly are a major contributor to what made
this book possible because not only have you financially supported the
podcast and made it possible to produce the podcast over the past seven years,
but you have also been in constant dialogue and conversation with us.
You've been telling us what you see, where you are.
We've been learning from you and we also just feel so supported.
And like we're doing it for somebody and for a real reason.
And that feeling is what keeps us going when things are hard or it seems overwhelming.
And we do this on a shoestring and the shoestring has been provided by our
Patreon supporters.
You guys tie the shoes, basically.
We really, no, you know, I always say that there are two very valuable
things in every person's lives and that is your time and your money.
Your money, if you're giving it to us via Patreon every last dollar,
whether you're giving three bucks a month or more, we appreciate it.
Whether you give for one month or you have been giving from the beginning,
we appreciate you equally.
Your time by listening to us, by wearing shirts out at
Ciclovias, putting up stickers, the time that you guys take to support us.
That's a thing you can never get back and it is probably the most valuable
thing that you have.
And we appreciate so much, whether again, you've listened to one episode or all
160 episodes and the bonuses, like I'm so humbled that people do listen to us.
So we're really, again, look, this is going to be a very weird episode.
We have so many people to thank.
I just want to say really thank you to every last person listening.
I also want to say that part of the way that we produce the podcast is
by thinking to ourselves, we have some of the smartest listeners of any podcast
I can think of, we have planners, we have elected officials, we have people
who are just hobbyists and who know this stuff at a high level and we try
to live up to the knowledge and understanding that we have to make a
show that speaks to the people we're trying to bring into the fold,
the people who know nothing about the subject, but sort of sense maybe
something could be better and all of you who are just pros at this in one
way or another.
And we're so grateful when we get feedback on episodes, it's always
constructive, it's always helpful and it helps us make a better show.
So I could go on and on about how much I value our listeners, but it
wouldn't be enough.
Actually, it's really important to us.
So thank you.
Before we get too deep, let's give people a little preview of the book.
We're going to play a little bit of the audio book, Life After Cars.
A love affair or an arranged marriage?
For generations, automobiles have been promoted as an unmitigated
technological marvel.
If you question the role of cars in society or politely suggest that
cities invest in public transportation and protected bike lanes,
you risk being called a Luddite.
The auto dominant paradigm rests on the idea that the problems
cars create can be solved only with new and different cars, electric
cars, autonomous cars, cars that fly.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Far from being anachronistic relics, 19th century inventions such as
trains and bikes are the best tools we have for solving 21st century
transportation problems.
Organizing our entire transportation system around personal automobile
ownership is a historical blip.
One that was pushed on society by corporate and government interests
and that does not truly represent societal and consumer preferences.
Sometimes when we tell people we host a podcast called The War on Cars,
we get a little pushback.
That's to be expected when you take any position outside the dominant
culture and point out its flaws.
Sarah was once talking to a guy at a cocktail party who after
finding out what she did for a living, asked belligerently whether
the podcast also covers all the positive things about cars, as if
a hundred years of car culture, billions of dollars in annual highway
spending and the marketing departments of every major automobile
company weren't already taken care of that.
Some critics dismiss us as out of touch urban elites.
They point out that because we all live in New York, one of the
few US cities with enough density, bike lanes and good transit
to enable a comfortable, car-free lifestyle, we can't possibly
understand the way real Americans live.
Besides, people will say, Americans have a love affair with cars.
Good luck trying to change that.
In response, we like to point out that I was raised in a town
north of Boston on a cul-de-sac with no sidewalks.
After college, I lived in Atlanta, a poster city for
car dependents, urban highways and sprawl and drove a Volkswagen
Jetta to work.
Sarah, a proud New York native, lived for several years in rural
and small town Maine, where she owned both an SUV and a 1973 Ford
Mustang, Cherry Red with a black vinyl top.
We understand American car dependents quite well because we
have experienced it firsthand and rejected it.
We know that's not an option for most people, even the people
who'd like to make a different choice.
Being able to relate to other people while still explaining that
car dependency didn't win in a fair fight is part of our mission.
Even the famous expression, America's love affair with
cars was a car industry creation, not some folksy saying that
arose spontaneously.
Peter Norton discovered that the phrase appeared in a 1957
Chevrolet ad before being popularized in a television
special that aired on October 21, 1961 on NBC.
Called Merrily We Roll Along and starring comedian Groucho
Marks, the special was sponsored by DuPont, which at
the time owned a 23% stake in General Motors.
In the special, Groucho says that our love affair
with the automobile started long ago and that it was a real
love affair, one that changed our whole way of life.
The phrase became part of the popular lexicon almost overnight,
produced the same year that Jane Jacobs published her seminal
book, The Death and Life of Great American Cities and airing
just as the highway revolts were gaining steam.
Groucho's hyping of the love affair was a brilliant
defensive ploy on the part of the automobile industry.
For generations, that hype has successfully obscured the darker
reality of a world built for cars.
People over parking.
On August 10, 2018, Madison Leiden, a 23 year old tourist
from Australia, was riding a bicycle on Central Park West when
an Uber driver suddenly pulled ahead of her into the
painted bike lane. According to news reports, Leiden swerved
into the adjacent car lane to avoid the Uber and was hit
by a sanitation truck. In an eerie echo of what happened 120
years earlier, Leiden died just seven blocks from the spot
where Henry Bliss had been killed.
Even though it's against the law to block a bike lane, the
Uber driver who obstructed Leiden s path was not charged.
He wasn't even ordered to pay the fine for such an
offense, which is $115. The driver of the sanitation
truck Felipe Chavez was allegedly drunk at the time of the
crash. Investigators found three beer bottles on the floor of
his truck's cabin, and he was arrested and charged with
driving while intoxicated, among other offenses. However,
just as taxi driver Arthur Smith was acquitted after he
claimed he could not avoid hitting Henry Bliss, the man
who drove into Madison Leiden got off easy. Prosecutors
ultimately dropped the main charge against Chavez, concluding
that even if he had been sober, it wouldn't have made any
difference because he was driving in his lane and obeying
the speed limit at the time of the crash. He was released
with just a $1,000 fine, the equivalent of about $27 in
1899. Madison Leiden s death spurred a wave of activism
in New York, supported by her family in Australia. A year
after she was killed, the New York City Department of
Transportation installed a protected bike lane on 18
blocks of Central Park West. The full stretch, running 51
blocks, or about two and a half miles, was completed in
2020. But for the most part, the story remained local, as
most traffic deaths do. Even the coverage the protected
bike lane did receive in the local press showed the way
pro-car bias has pervaded mainstream media. In 1924, the
New York Times published that haunting image of the grim
reaper driving over women and children under the bold
headline, Nation Roused Against Motor Killings. This time,
that same paper published a story headlined the people
of Central Park West want their parking spaces. Sorry,
cyclists. Increasingly, though, advocates for active
transportation aren't accepting sorry as an answer anymore. Since
Henry Bliss was hit by that taxi in 1899, cars and
automobility have killed anywhere from 60 to 80 million
people and injured at least 2 billion worldwide. After
decades of weary acceptance, there's a growing global
movement questioning the inevitability of the ongoing
toll. More and more people are asking what the first warriors
against cars asked. Why must we sacrifice our loved ones to
appease the automotive gods? When will people matter more than
parking? When will we say enough that people are
asking these questions gives us hope, but it will take more
than questions and hope to turn the tide. Hope is a
discipline. We have to practice it every day, says the American
activist and organizer, Maryam Kaba. All over the world,
individuals and advocates are practicing the discipline of
hope by changing their own relationship with driving, joining
up with larger campaigns to fix streets where they live and
staging direct actions that challenge the dominance and
alleged inevitability of cars. There's just one thing every
advocate for a better, less car dependent future always finds
standing in their way. The culture will be right back after
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Okay, we're back. So Sarah, I want to ask you, I guess we'll
interview each other about the book. How about that? Fair
enough. Folks, we did a lot of planning for this episode.
There's so much going on that we're just like, we're just
gonna talk about the book. Yeah, we're just gonna make it
a little more authentic. Yeah. Tell me about your process
of writing the book. What surprised you about the research
you did or just the process of writing it? You've written a
book before. You're a journalist. You've written lots of
things in your life. What was different this time? What
surprised you? Well, the book that I've written before was
fiction. So that was that was easier in terms of the fact
part of it. But yeah, I've written countless thousands
of articles. The thing that was different about writing a
book was the sense of responsibility to really go
deep, to really not just be writing what I could write on
deadline in a week or two weeks or even a month, but to really
sit with it and allow myself to go really, really deep on
this. And a couple of years ago during the pandemic, I went
to grad school and got a master's degree at the CUNY Grad
Center in biography and memoir, which in a way might seem
like it doesn't really have much to do with writing a book
like this. But I had so many great professors and fellow
students there with whom I learned a lot about research
processes that as a journalist, frankly, you just don't have
the time to do. And so I became much more comfortable
with archival research, much more comfortable with
library research and just more comfortable with the rigor
that you have to bring in an academic paper, right? And that
just carried kind of seamlessly over into the process of
researching this book. So I guess one thing that was
surprising was what time can give you, even though it's
a very, I think we wrote the book in about nine months.
It's a very accelerated schedule for this amount of work. But
it still was so much more time than I was used to working
with as a journalist that it felt like that time was a
responsibility and a privilege that I had to live up to.
Yeah. For me, this part of the process of writing it,
researching it, there was a piece of it that was both
surprising and not surprising. So I knew that we would
have to discard a lot. You know, you do a lot of
research and sort of the act of writing is the act of
editing. It's the act of discarding a lot of stuff,
you know, not being precious about stuff, kind of
throwing out your babies kind of stuff like that. The
amount that I wrote, and then just tossed because I'm
like, oh man, I would love to put that in, but it kind
of goes off on a tangent. Or I have more important
things to say about this. Or the fact that this is
such a fast moving subject, but yet the process is so
slow, and we were going to finish the draft of the
book and it wasn't going to come out for another year. I
think I was just surprised by the amount I left on the
cutting room floor. I think I could have filled two or
three more books just by myself. Never mind all the
stuff that like went into the book in general that we
left out. You know, we had at the point we started
writing like 130 podcast episodes or more, not to
mention 15 years of advocacy just on my part
alone, not to mention your journalism, all the
stuff that had gone into what made the book, what
it eventually became. It was sort of like this big
hourglass, except that the top of the hourglass was
bigger than the bottom, if that makes sense. And
we, the process of writing it is that narrow part at
the middle. Right. And so looking back, if I go
back and look at my notes, I'm like, oh man, that
was so great. It would have been great to put
in, but it's gone now. And you just have to
let it go. There's sort of an adage in my
television experience that like a project is never
done, it's just do. But at the same time, I
really felt like we created something that I can
be proud of, that we can all be proud of, and
that sort of like I was saying earlier, we had
to thread the needle of speaking to people who
know everything about this subject, which includes
a lot of our listeners, and the people we hope
to reach and bring into the fold, which are
the folks who know very little or nothing
about the subject, and might even be skeptical
that the idea of life after cars is even
possible in the way that we mean it. So sort of
a rambling answer, but I, you know, I'm just
I'm really happy with how it came out. I'm
really, really happy with how it came out.
Can I ask you, is there one thing that you
had to discard that made you particularly
sad? I had a vision for how I wanted to
frame the chapter on car culture and
bike lash that was different from how it
wound up turning out. And I think credit to
our editor, Megan, who rearranged a few
things. I wanted it to be originally more
of a sort of breakdown of bike lash and
like these are the 20 bike lash things
that people say and how do you respond to
them. Instead, we at her urging and with
a lot of work, you'll see when you read
it, fed these things into a story so that
the examples were more grounded in
something you could see and weren't just
theoretical. So if you look at my original
bike lash and car culture chapter, it's
much longer. And I think probably a lot
more boring, you know, because like, I
think it would have been good, but I
think it would have only spoken to the
people who want the tool of fighting
back against bike lash and not the
people who read a news story and just
take for granted some of the things
that people say. Does that make sense?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got so into some of
the history stuff. And off on these
tangents, I did a lot of research
about early women drivers driving
across the United States and doing
these kind of competitions and rallies
and that all disappeared. The thing I
think I'm saddest about was that I
had woven into the nature chapter,
the fact that Henry Ford was a really
avid birdwater. You'll see there's a
lot of birds in the chapter about
nature. And I was like, this is perfect.
Henry Ford was obsessed with birds and
loved birds and his inventions were
really obsessed with Nazis. Yeah. Well,
that made it in. Yes. Yeah. But
but yeah, so that was like, I was
very sad. I was like, I found this
elegant thing about him and his
birdwatching and the editor was,
you know, Megan McCormick and her
wisdom was like, you know, I think you
could leave this part out anyway. You
know, maybe I'll maybe I'll write about
that some other day. Who knows? I
think also like the hardest part in a
way was we were synthesizing so much
research from other people, including
people we've had on the show. You're
talking about nature like Ben Goldfarb,
you know, his book Crossings is
really, really great. Peter Norton,
the early history from the 1910s,
1920s that he talks about in fighting
traffic. And you know, it's a it's
a again a needle you have to thread
between like plagiarism, you know, just
like printing what these people have
written before and saying, no,
actually, this is really important.
And like, we're not expecting every
person who's reading this book to
have read all of the other books.
And so our job, sort of like as
podcast hosts is to take all of
this research and bring the best of
it to you in a fresh new way. And so
look, you know, our book stands on
the shoulders of all of those
researchers and advocates and people
have written books before. We mentioned
Jeanette at the top, but people like
Peter Norton and Ian Walker and
Ben Goldfarb and like Alyssa Walker
and all of these folks that we've
had on the show, whose journalism and
whose writing is so important. So this
is not a surprising piece of this,
but it was fun to go back over
that research and be like, oh man,
like, when people learn this piece
of the history or this statistic
about motor normativity, their minds
are going to be blown if they haven't
heard this before. That was fun to see
again. So one of the things people
ask me about the book before
it's out is, you know, who is this
book for? So I'm sure you're getting
that question too. Yeah, how do you
answer that? Which we talk about in
the intro a little bit. Yes, yes,
but yeah, we do itemize that.
But sometimes, you know, when you're
just or on social media, there have
been people who've just reacted seeing
that the title of the book, Life
After Cars. Well, there can't be Life
After Cars. What are you talking
about? You know, there's there can
be some negative pushback. So how
have you been dealing with that?
You know, I probably have been the
person in the past who read a
headline of a story and was like,
this sucks. And then you read
the story and you're like, this
does not suck quite as much.
And so I always try to now be the
person who like, unless it really is
like a crappy headline, as we see in
politics these days, I try to reserve
judgment until I read something.
Some people I think just like with
the war on cars or just like with
any proposal to put a bike lane on a
street, there are some people who
are just going to reflexively say,
no, our job as advocates, the way
I see my job is not to convince
the no way know how people, but
to sort of just present an argument
in a way that doesn't necessarily
cause people to say, like, that's
it. I'm giving up my car, but at
least gets them to say, hey, I
kind of see where you're coming
from and I'm open to this
argument. I think that's what we
tried to do with the book. That's
how I've been dealing with it. It's
just sort of like, hey, you know,
like, read the book and let me
know what you think. I think
you're going to enjoy it. We're
not actually making a no car
argument. It's not really an
anti car argument. It is too
serious. Like, read the first
few chapters. It is. And but we are
saying like, there are people in
places where cars make sense, like
for whom cars make sense and where
cars make sense. It's just that
we've over deployed them. So I
mostly just I want the book to
sort of like speak for itself.
They don't push back too much. I
think I think we did a really
good job of like, hopefully
disarming a lot of those people.
Right. And I think for me as
someone who despite having been
a journalist for a long time,
who's gotten a lot of negative
pushback about things that I've
written for pretty much my entire
career, I still have kind of a
thin skin. I'm still a sensitive
person in a lot of ways. And and
I can feel hurt if people assume
bad faith on my part. It's not
so much that I get hurt if people
don't like my arguments. It's
more if they if they act as if
I'm not arguing in good faith and
not arguing with a knowledge of,
yes, this is a very auto
centric society. I've had so many
people tell me, wow, but do you
know that the US is a really
auto centric society? No,
shit. Yeah, that's why I'm
here. Yeah. So, you know, I
think that for me, like, it has
actually been helpful to write
the book and have the book and
to be able to say, like, I did
my due diligence here and I put
it into this book and and we
really have something to say
that's very authentic and it's
very closely argued and it's
evidence based and it's
compassionate and it's
thoughtful. And it recognizes
the reality of the way that most
Americans and people around the
world live and I can stand
behind that. And so that's helped
me to sort of it's almost like
my thin skin now has a book to
protect it.
Exactly. Look, it is one of
those things and you see this on
social media where like, people
see the one post that you put
up and just make all of these
assumptions without going through
your feet or even looking at
your bio and understanding who
you are. So that's just the
nature of the world that we live
in and the attention economy
that we live in. So you have to
deal with that. I feel like the
book is an authentic reflection
of who we are as journalists
and advocates and podcasters and
as humans. I think it speaks
to the people we want to reach
out to, like you said, I think
we are as compassionate as we
can be towards people operating
in a system that just doesn't
work for most people. And I'm
proud of what we did. It's
really fun to see it out
there in the world. We have
our physical copies right here
with us. We've signed a couple
copies already. My wrist is
getting stiff just thinking of
the numbers that we're going to
have to sign. It's so amazing.
It's incredible. It's so awesome.
I mean, I think we could ramble
on forever just about how
awesome this is. But I want
to ask you, so is there
something that you put in
the book that you were able
to write that that you're
particularly excited for people
to read or you think might
be a little surprised without
giving away too much, but
something like a little nugget
in there that you think is
going to be fun for people or
interesting in a particular
way. There are two. One is
place-based, one is more
personal. So the story about
Ghent and how Ghent has
transformed itself in a very
short amount of time is
probably my favorite part of the
book. Selfishly, I went
there and reported on it for
the book. So it has a
special place for me in terms
of the amount of work I did,
what I experienced, and I
wrote it in a way that is not
just evidence-based, but is
really experiential-based, if
that makes sense. And then
there's a little piece about
my daughter that I threw in
there in the chapter about
kids. I don't want to say
much more than that, because
it's a really fun story and
sort of sums up the argument
we're trying to make in that
chapter. How about you?
Yeah, I think for me, I
really liked writing the
chapter about nature and the
effect of cars on nature,
because that's something that's
very easy for us to ignore
and that it's a really
important thing to open our
eyes to and also to see
ourselves as human beings as
part of nature that we're
animals to. And the way that
cars affect animals is the
way that cars affect us. So
that part is really
important to me. And I think
that the research I did for
that was kind of life changing
for me in a lot of ways. But
there is also a personal
little nugget in there, which
is if you've ever wondered
about my last name and
its connection to the
automobile industry, we have
a little section where I
explain that. So your
curiosity will be satisfied.
And I have researched the
hell out of it and I
summarize it in this book.
So final question, because
we really could just talk
about this for hours and
bore the hell out of people.
And we'll have to talk about
it for hours.
Yes, on the road. Yeah. That's
the part that I'm really
looking forward to is getting
out on the road. Kind of our
favorite thing about this
podcast has been the people
we meet in person, whether
that's at Meetups in Brooklyn
or the few live shows that
we've done. Now we're going
to do as many live shows in a
month as we've done in seven
years, meeting people in
person and seeing the work
that you're all doing to
realize life after cars,
whatever that means in your
definition. That's been the
best part. You know, we are
just part of a movement that
is really picking up these
days and changing cities
despite all the headwinds,
the federal government and
elsewhere. I think we're
winning the culture war in a
lot of ways. And that's
been fun to see. And I'm
just so excited to get out
on the road and talk to
people. So really, final
question. We sell the movie
rights to life after cars. Who
plays you in the big screen
adaptation of life after
cars? Oh, my God, I'm not
going to pick for you because
I just feel like I would say
something. I don't know. I
wouldn't get it right. Like,
has anyone ever told you, oh,
you look like or this
person is like you, you
know, not not of anyone
who would be like of the
right age. I actually have
been told that I remind
people of Bette Midler,
which has always been strange
to me and also Amelia Earhart,
which is very strange to me.
If Amelia Earhart were
available to do the part, I
would certainly. Wait, wait,
wait. How do people know,
like other than like those
sort of like sped up black and
white photos where she's
like waving too fast? Like,
how do they know what
Amelia Earhart is like?
There are a lot of still
photos of her where she
looks very dashing. So, so
I'm trying to think that
that's what it is.
Bette Midler, I've never
seen you in a fish tail or
singing a song for beaches.
I don't I don't think that.
But there's an actor that I
really like named Jen
Tullock. She's in Severance.
She plays the sister.
She plays the sister.
She's awesome.
And she's pretty amazing.
And I like to think that we
have a similar vibe.
And so that's who I
that's that's who I would
cast. That's a good choice.
I like her. She's a good
actor for me.
I've been told in some
circumstances that I look
like Giovanni Robisi.
If you know who that is.
Yeah, I can see that.
You might have more hair than
I have now.
That's OK. I might be a little
skinnier.
I don't know how old he is.
I'm going to look this up.
Sorry, folks, we told you
we're doing this on the fly.
Giovanni Robisi.
Oh, he's 50.
OK, there you go.
He's age appropriate.
Born the same year as me.
So age appropriate.
So if you know who he is
from like Avatar
and other independent films, too,
I think that would be it.
Yeah. OK.
And then I mean, you know,
what would life after cars
the movie be?
I mean, obviously would be
different from the book.
I would like to think that it's
kind of a superhero movie
in which we would
or our characters would
just go around the world
making the world
save for life after cars.
I think it's the opposite of
the fast and the furious.
It's the slow and the courteous.
That's life after cars.
OK, good enough.
OK, so the book is out.
You can go to lifeaftercars.com.
We really encourage you
to purchase the book, obviously,
wherever it makes sense for you.
Get it at your library.
If you can support a local independent
bookseller, please do.
Many local indie bookstores
are our partners on our book tour
and we're so grateful for their support.
Also, if you are a Patreon supporter,
we want to hear for a year end
bonus episode.
What does life after cars mean for you?
So we'd love for you to record
like a 30 second to one minute.
Take on that.
Give us a specific example
of something you've done
or your vision for the future
and you can send it to us.
We will send instructions
for how to do that
in a Patreon blast.
That's it for this episode
of the war on cars.
I think you mean life after cars.
Yeah.
No, we are not rebranding.
No, we're not.
War on cars is a great thing.
Still, still war on cars.
Remember, you can support us
and get exclusive bonus content,
pre-sale access to live show tickets,
free stickers,
chance to contribute to the podcast
and more by signing up on Patreon
at patreon.com
slash the war on cars pod.
And a big thanks to everyone
who supports us,
including our top contributors,
Charlie G of Human Powered Law
in Portland, Oregon,
Mark Headland, Virginia Baker
and Brandon DeCoster.
We also want to give big thanks
to our friends at Cleverhood
for sponsoring this episode,
our friends at Upway
for sponsoring this episode.
Our sponsors are a huge part
of what makes this possible as well
as is the Helen and William
Mazer Foundation,
a really important sort of support for us.
Yes, thank you so much
for your generosity.
This episode was edited
by Samantha Gatzek
and a big thanks to Josh Wilcox
at the Brooklyn Podcasting Studio.
Who is sitting right here
recording this episode?
This podcast, this book,
none of it would be possible
without his expertise
and his friendship.
Thank you, Josh.
Our theme music is by Nathaniel Goodyear
and yes, Nathaniel Goodyear
is related to me.
He is my son
and I'm very proud of him.
Transcripts are by Russell Greg.
Thank you, Russell.
Our logo is by the great Danny Finkel.
Audio excerpted courtesy
of Penguin Random House Audio
from Life After Cars
by Sarah Goodyear, Doug Gordon
and Aaron Napristak.
Read by Sarah Goodyear and Doug Gordon.
Copyright 2025, The War on Cars, LLC.
Audio Copyright 2025,
Penguin Random House, LLC.
All rights reserved.
I'm Doug Gordon.
I'm Sarah Goodyear.
And this is The War on Cars.
About this episode
Doug Gordon and Sarah Goodyear celebrate the release of their new book, Life After Cars, exploring the history, culture, and future of car dependency. They share insights from their research, discuss challenges in writing, and highlight stories like Ghent's urban transformation and the impact of cars on nature. The hosts reflect on advocacy, political leadership, and the growing movement toward sustainable transportation. They also announce a nationwide book tour and invite listeners to engage with the book and their community.
Original notes
Today we celebrate the publication of our new book, Life After Cars: Freeing Ourselves From the Tyranny of the Automobile.
In this episode, we serve up a sample of the audiobook and talk about some of the things we learned and that surprised us during the process of bringing Life After Cars to publication. Also, who should play us in the movie version? Listen to hear our thoughts and let us know your opinion.
We are so grateful to all of our listeners and supporters for making this day possible. Go out there and get your copy of Life After Cars wherever books are sold.
Our Bookshop.org link. Please support independent booksellers!
Support The War on Cars on Patreon and receive exclusive access to ad-free versions of regular episodes, Patreon-only bonus content, Discord access, invitations to live events, merch discounts and free stickers!
Thanks to Upway and Cleverhood for sponsoring this episode.
The War on Cars
The War on Cars, LLC
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