TFL Car Chat Mar 3, 2026

What is the Best Toyota and Lexus Off-Roader AND We Bought Yet ANOTHER Bargain Porsche!? | Ep. 326

Annotations will appear as you listen

0:00

63:11

Concept

off-roading

Off-roading means driving a car on rough ground that isn't a normal road, like dirt or rocks, which needs special cars that can handle it.

Car

Land Rover Range Rover

The Range Rover L322 is a fancy SUV made by Land Rover between 2002 and 2012. It can drive well off-road but also has many comfortable and high-end features inside.

Term

KBB

KBB is a website that helps you find out how much a used car is worth, so you know if the price is fair.

Car

BMW X5

The BMW X5 is a big car that can carry people and stuff comfortably. It is fancy and has good features, making it popular for families or everyday use.

Term

manual transmission

A manual transmission means the driver changes gears themselves using pedals and a stick. Many people like it because it makes driving more fun and gives more control.

Car

Porsche 911

The Porsche 911 is a famous fast car that looks unique and is fun to drive. People talk about it because it's been popular for a very long time and is known for being really good on the road.

Term

fried egg headlight

The fried egg headlight is a funny name for the early headlights on the Porsche 911 (996) because they look like a fried egg with a yolk in the middle. Many people didn't like how they looked.

Term

wheel curbing

Wheel curbing means the wheels got scratched or damaged because they hit the edge of a sidewalk or curb.

Term

check engine light

The check engine light is a warning light on the car's dashboard that tells you when something might be wrong with the engine or other important parts.

Term

airbag light

The airbag light is a warning on the dashboard that tells you if there is a problem with the airbags, which help keep you safe in a crash.

Term

full service history

Full service history means there are records showing all the times the car was checked and fixed, so you know it was taken care of.

Term

clean title

A clean title means the car has not been badly damaged or written off by insurance. It's a good sign the car is in decent shape.

Term

low ownership

Low ownership means not many people have owned the car before you. This usually means the car was taken care of better.

Term

convertible

A convertible is a car where the roof can be taken down or folded back so you can drive with the top open and feel the wind.

Term

automatic transmission

An automatic transmission means the car changes gears by itself, so you don't have to use a clutch or shift manually. This makes driving easier, especially in busy traffic.

Term

body rigidity

Body rigidity means how strong and stiff the car's frame is. A stiffer car handles better, but convertibles usually have less stiffness because they don't have a solid roof.

Part

hydraulic power steering

Hydraulic power steering helps you turn the steering wheel more easily by using fluid pressure, so it doesn't feel heavy when you steer.

Term

Porsche Crest

The Porsche Crest is the special badge or logo you see on Porsche cars that shows it's a Porsche.

Part

shifter

The shifter is the stick or lever you move to change gears in a manual car. A nice shifter makes it easier and more fun to drive.

Part

brakes

Brakes help a car slow down or stop when you press the pedal. Good brakes keep you safe and help you control the car better.

Term

rally car

A rally car is a special car made to race on different kinds of roads, like dirt or gravel, not just normal streets.

Car

Land Rover Defender

The Land Rover Defender is a tough car made to drive on rough roads and in the wild. People like it because it can go places many cars can't, but some older ones might need more fixing.

Car

Fiat 500

The Fiat 500 is a tiny car that’s easy to park and drive in the city. It looks cute and doesn’t use much gas, making it good for short trips.

Term

whale tail

A whale tail is a big spoiler on the back of some Porsche 911 cars. It helps the car stay stable when driving fast and makes it look special.

Term

soft line

Soft lines are flexible hoses in your car's brakes that help connect hard metal pipes to the brakes on the wheels. They bend and move so the brakes work properly when the car moves.

Term

brake fluid

Brake fluid is a special liquid that helps your brakes work when you press the pedal.

Part

brake master

The brake master cylinder helps make your car stop when you press the brake pedal by pushing brake fluid to the wheels.

Car

Toyota Land Cruiser

The Toyota Land Cruiser is a big, strong car that can drive over rough ground and last a very long time. People trust it because it rarely breaks and is good for trips into nature.

Car

Toyota RAV4

The Toyota RAV4 is a small SUV that’s easy to drive and doesn’t use much gas. Many people pick it because it’s good for family trips and everyday use.

Car

Lexus Gx

The Lexus GX is a fancy SUV that can go off-road but also feels very comfortable inside. People like it because it’s both tough and nice to ride in.

Car

Toyota Tundra

The Toyota Tundra is a big truck that can carry heavy things and last a long time. People choose it because it’s tough and works well for big jobs.

Car

Toyota Tacoma

The Toyota Tacoma is a medium-sized truck that is known to last a long time and can handle rough roads. Many people like it because it’s good for work and fun trips.

Car

Ford Bronco

The Ford Bronco is a cool SUV that can drive on rough roads and looks a bit like old cars from the past. People like it because it’s good for outdoor trips and fun to drive.

Car

Jeep Willys

The Jeep Wrangler is a strong SUV that can drive on rough paths and lets you take off the doors and roof for fun. Many people love it for adventures and outdoor trips.

Car

Ford Maverick

The Ford Maverick is a small truck that’s easy to drive and doesn’t use much gas. It’s a good choice if you want a truck that’s not too big or expensive.

Car

Mitsubishi Lancer

The Mitsubishi Lancer is a small car that can be sporty or just good for everyday driving. People like it because it’s fun to drive and not too expensive.

Car

Ford Model T

The Ford Model T is one of the first cars ever made that many people could buy. It helped a lot of people start driving cars a long time ago.

Term

massaging seats

Massaging seats are special car seats that can gently rub your back to make you feel more comfortable.

Term

torque

Torque is how much force the engine can use to make the car move or pull heavy things.

Car

Lexus Lx

The Lexus LX is a big, fancy SUV that can go off-road but also feels very comfortable and smooth inside. People buy it if they want a luxury car that can handle rough roads.

Car

G-Class Gwagon

The G-Class is a fancy, expensive SUV that looks square and can drive on tough roads. People like it because it’s strong, stylish, and rare.

LIVE

[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy, have you ever wondered what the best Toyota slash Lexus off-roaders?

[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, good question.

[SPEAKER_00]: We just had the chance to drive a ton of them because we did a really cool thing where in the course of just a day or two, we went skiing and surfing and off-roading in Southern California.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we got some video of you actually surfing and of you curling, Tommy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we can talk about that because for the longest time, I thought the only Olympic sport I could still do would be curling, but it's harder than I thought.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we had some really great adventures that we're going to talk about in this podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, off-roading all kinds of cool like I guess and tutors, but first, it's a really great daytime.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know why it's a great day?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was a new car day for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we just went out and bought something pretty special.

[SPEAKER_00]: I should say, definitely new used car day.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we went out and found out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't tell me it, I'll tell the story.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So here's the story.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we've been looking for a Range Rover.

[SPEAKER_01]: to buy an old one.

[SPEAKER_01]: What's the model?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's L322.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I found one on Facebook.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a 2008, which is kind of the right year, because it's got the right engine, and it was owned according the description by an engineer, which is always good.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the pictures looked really, really good.

[SPEAKER_01]: It looked like it had been taken care of, but it only had 118,000 miles, which is actually not a lot for a 2008 car.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're looking for it because we haven't all in that Range Rover yet.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've owned a lot of different ones, but that's the one that's still missing and that's the one that everybody says, is a sweet spot in the Range Rover lineup.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so I call him and it turns out it belonged to this retired engineer.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he was really to sell it.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted 7,500, which actually is kind of high for that, believe it or not, it's kind of high.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like do KBB, they'll tell you the cars worth about 2K because of course the legendary reliability of rain drovers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Although I was doing a little bit more research and if you can find a nice one like that one on the right site They can be worth $10.50 and even $20,000.

[SPEAKER_02]: Really.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're really appreciating about you.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not sure that that that that deal was actually that bad [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so I was rated by it and I said, hey, the only thing I need you to do is if you can get emissions for it because hearing the front range of Colorado, we need to do emissions, and usually that's also a good sign that the engine is working.

[SPEAKER_01]: For sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he said he would do it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I great.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this was on Tuesday and then on Wednesday, actually on Tuesday.

[SPEAKER_01]: After knew he calls me back and a texty back and he says, Hey, I got a mission and I'm like great and I said, Why are you selling it and he said, Well, I just bought a BMW X5 and I'm like, Oh, well, that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I started talking to him about some other cars he owned and I go, Are you but other cars you own and he goes, Well, I've also got a 911 and I'm trying to sell and I was like, Hmm.

[SPEAKER_01]: And nine eleven and I said how much you want for it?

[SPEAKER_01]: And he said 15,000 and my, you know, my ears perked up because nine eleven's are pretty expensive these days.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I asked him about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was a 2003 Carrera with the hardtop, which is good, but with an automatic.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that's not great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody wants a manual.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, that is a fair price, maybe even on the low side for an 89,000 mile nine eleven.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I thought, you know what, maybe we could do a deal [SPEAKER_01]: And we buy the Range Rover and the 911 so that's what I'm thinking side was like I'm coming back Thursday on Friday I'll come by and take a look at both these and if you know for work, so we can do a deal on both of them It calls me back the next day and he sold the Range Rover and he goes you still want the 911 I'm like heck yeah, I want the 911 So anyway, so we just got back from his house and we came back with a brand new 911 You want to talk about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's pretty used.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it is a 2003 911 brand new do us [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the 996 is kind of the the least loved version of the 911.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a cheapest 911 you could buy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this was the transition of the air cooled one, so the water cooled one that happened in the late 1990s.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now this was an O3, so it's kind of on the later end of what they call the 996 generation 911.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the early ones had what's known as the fried egg headlight.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, people hate those.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason that it's called a fried egg headlight is it looks like if you crack an egg and then the yolk kind of falls to the bottom of a pan you end up with this kind of smudgy round mess.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of what the headlights look like.

[SPEAKER_00]: So basically Porsche a little bit into the 996 run.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were getting a lot of feedback on this.

[SPEAKER_00]: And specifically, the front ends look exactly the same between the 9-11 and the cheaper boxer.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a different than 9-11.

[SPEAKER_00]: They made a much more angular.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they made them all pointy.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is one of the pointy headlight versions.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it looks a little bit better.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's refreshed.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a face lift.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the engine also won a little bit bigger.

[SPEAKER_00]: It got a little bit more power.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think this was right around 320 horsepower is what it's rated at.

[SPEAKER_00]: 2.6.

[SPEAKER_00]: 3.6 liter flat 6.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the thing that does hurt the value on this like you mentioned is what's called titronic.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a five-speed torque converter automatic instead of a six-speed manual which is the desirable version.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that really hurts its value and this is why I was so interested in it is that of course 996s are known for having a pretty severe issue and that is of course the, uh, I can't think of the IMS bearing issue.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this is this is kind of an issue that you can read all about online, intermediate shaft bearing, kind of in the heart of the engine goes bad, can correct the case, take out the whole engine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it does need to hold on to basically when it goes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now the thing about IMS bearings is a lot of people will say that the issue is way over hyped.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's not on this one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not on this one because this one actually had the IMS fail at about 50,000 miles.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the thing, they fail anywhere from, like, right away to farther into the ownership, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: There's no said place.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's sort of true.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, from what I've read, they typically fail within, like, the first 50,000 miles.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if they fail, they're going to fail, usually, earlier than later.

[SPEAKER_00]: But this one did, in fact, fail, and then had a new engine put in through Porsche at the cost of $20,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mac, what?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it was, like, in 2010 or 11, that engine, yeah, we have the receipt for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so $20,000 back in 2010 or 11?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm guessing they didn't put the same LMS bearing into it back then, do they?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it would be new engines, it would probably be a new LMS.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think at that point, they probably figured out that the 996s were...

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think if FireColors are, there's a big class action about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, apparently, this is interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: He paid for it on a pocket and then based on that lawsuit, he actually got reimbursed for it from Porsche.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, um...

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got a new engine in it as a 50,000 miles, so 40,000 miles on the engine, but it's a really nice car overall.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little scruffy on the outside.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got some wheel curbing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, check engine light.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm no, sorry, an airbag light on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it has an airbag light on, but no check engine, you know, it's got full service history.

[SPEAKER_00]: Suspension's good.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got brakes on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're the third owners.

[SPEAKER_00]: yep so it's a really really nice driving car actually it really is mechanically i think very very solid um you know and i think fifteen thousand dollars is a fair to good price for any nine eleven even one with an automatic especially being a hard-tock clean title low ownership good service history so yeah i didn't argue with the price i was like yeah i'll pay that [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think if, you know, unless the market creators definitely the market on 911 is decreasing a little, I think we should be able to get most of the money out of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're, they're in a bubble for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then this is of course the one that is the least desirable.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there are two things that bring down the value of three things of 911, first to 996, people, people don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, traditionally want the 996 which is okay as much, but it's still like a term 996 is still very expensive car And then of course being a convertible and then of course being in automatic so this one has one two of those three That's why it's affordable so it does have them automatic.

[SPEAKER_01]: It does [SPEAKER_01]: Blong in that 9.9.6 range, but it doesn't have the convertible, so the reason people don't like convertibles is because a lot of people like attract these, or they use them as sports firms, they're going to attract them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or they think they're going to attract them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then of course the less body of rigidity, which makes for less performance, it's kind of the dentist's car, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: If you think about it, the automatic or the dentist's to wife's car.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, it's the one that the dentist would wife's wife.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, he got the GT3.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I still, I mean, an incredibly dynamic heart of drive, incredible.

[SPEAKER_00]: It drives really well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hydraulic power steering, the ride quality is really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's three, six.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you've got some kind of interesting options.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of the coolest things that has is a rear wipeer, which is pretty unusual in the level.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's got some funny things.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got the rear wipeer.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got the Porsche Crest and the headrests, which people people like.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got both premium audio, so it's got some little options here and there.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got leather on the dashboard.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that was an option actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't see it listed.

[SPEAKER_00]: You think how about the color?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the color?

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to remember the name of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty important because colors are important to the people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh god, you're like the worst kind of Porsche person there.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just, I'm just trying to be relevant and relate to our viewers who are Porsche people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, as you should know, because your Porsche color is not, it's code L686, Meridian Silver Metallic.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's silver.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of champagne.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's very much of its era.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, I think all joking aside, it is a very, very cool car and I'm very excited about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it runs and drives really well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that, you know, I don't really know what the editorial bit is on this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly cheapest 9-11 is definitely a good good take.

[SPEAKER_00]: because you're really going to have a hard time finding any 9-11 with a clean title for Lesson 15K that just, you know, now 20's kind of the floor on these 9-9-6's, so I think that's a pretty good deal on one of these and, you know, we could do like a safari 9-11 would be pretty cool with it, it's because just drive in really, you're really trying to do a safari.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you love the, um, what's that offered one called a Dakar?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that not just a waiting to be in the car?

[SPEAKER_01]: I got to tell you, Tommy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was so close to not buying this today, because we had an interesting experience with our $3,800 fee at $124, 1970s.

[SPEAKER_01]: 7.78.

[SPEAKER_01]: You want to talk about that story?

[SPEAKER_01]: This is not it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, we just spent a lot of money in the car.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'll tell you how much we spent.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's play a story.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, we bought this old 100,000 mile [SPEAKER_01]: Which means it has a bigger tool leader engine at the donated car auction and I just fell in with this thing It's so much fun to drive.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not fast.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not particularly nimble.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just such a fun car to drive because there is that thing about driving slow cars fast This is just driving a slow car period and it's so engaging [SPEAKER_01]: the the shifter is just a pleasure to work.

[SPEAKER_01]: The car just puts a huge smile on your face because you take the top down and it's got this nice burble from the force cylinder.

[SPEAKER_01]: It actually steers, but it didn't break really well and that was a problem because Tommy and I want to take this car and we want to go and use it as kind of a rally car this summer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe go on some rallies with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's a clear fight.

[SPEAKER_01]: It actually did break pretty well.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the brakes were very good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they like kept lighting up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so brought it to our British car mechanic TEDx.

[SPEAKER_00]: Allied Vintage Auto if you're in the Denver area.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's primarily specializes in British cars, but they now kind of, they do a little bit of everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they're very busy, but we've been lucky that they've had kind of a wall in their schedule.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we took three cars and this is a third one.

[SPEAKER_01]: First we had our defender truck because it was missing the new keys.

[SPEAKER_01]: When we bought the truck, it didn't have the new, [SPEAKER_00]: I had mismatching lock cylinders from the door into the ignition.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they did that, which is great.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's another got matching keys in our defender 130.

[SPEAKER_00]: We wanted them to check out a Fiat 500 thing that we had going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: They checked that out.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then we took the Porsche the 87.

[SPEAKER_01]: that we have, 9-11 because the top sometimes wouldn't close and so they adjusted that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if that one is for sales, if you guys are interested in buying that 87-9-11, it's over at Selton where we're selling it from here in Boulder.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just contact us at InfoITFLCar and I'll hook you up with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're asking 59,000, it's pretty sorted, whale tail, a white body 87-9-11 there it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Top works great now, brand new folks, brand new tires.

[SPEAKER_01]: I put a lot of time and effort into it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I read it the interior, I read it the soft top.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a $75,000 investment that we're selling for $59,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if somebody wants to take advantage of the fact that I spent a lot of money on this car and it can be yours, then I would say InfoITFL car and I'll hook you up.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason we're selling it is because we've had it for five years now, we're kind of done with the experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're moving on to a little bit more modern horses as you can tell.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so we went, there are three things wrong with the Fiat, and I just loved driving it.

[SPEAKER_01]: First, the brake light came on.

[SPEAKER_01]: We thought the reason for that was because when you went around and turned the light would go off, so I thought it was a hand brake sensor that was miscalibrated malfunctioning.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then the second thing that was wrong with the Fiat was the seatbelts would be stuck.

[SPEAKER_01]: You couldn't pull them out, which is really aggravating.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so every time you would try to like pull the seatbelt, it would like lock up, and so it's been five minutes trying to get it unlocked and the third thing was it had a fuel pump that was mechanical and you would literally have to crank it for like five to ten minutes before fuel got into the carburetor and actually started going so we wanted to get an electronic fuel pump on that thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: so that it would actually start right away as opposed to killing a battery trying to start it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this car was $300 at auction.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's pain is bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's dented.

[SPEAKER_01]: The interiors, well, scruffy would be a nice word for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like I said, I fell in love with a thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really loved it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we give it to Ted and then tell him what happened.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so he figured out ultimately that there was a bad rubber break hose that the soft line in the left front corner, so he went down the rabbit hole of putting new soft lines on it, which is not really a big job.

[SPEAKER_00]: Problem is, of course, all of the fittings were kind of frozen and lock solid.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, he broke those free, got the soft lines off, but new soft lines on it, went to breed the Blake, breaks, he couldn't get the river breaks to bleed.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, [SPEAKER_00]: line pressure to the rear brakes, which might mean in fact that the car didn't have rear brakes at all, by the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: It could be that, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, which this is a very old possibility.

[SPEAKER_01]: But then only 20% of the rear can come from the rear, so you might not even know.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, he went ahead and did some research, you know, figured out that there was a proportioning valve in the back.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, took the proportioning valve out, thing was aluminum, completely corroded, completely blocking the the brake, fluid from the rear brakes, okay, so new proportioning valves, stuck that in there, still, uh, was having issues bleeding the brakes, and then put his foot on the, on the, on the, on the, the pedal, the bleeding went right to the floor, and basically the master cylinder blew while he was trying to breathe the brakes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which he said is not uncommon actually because he said with like a clutch system, you know, you're using the full length of that master on a clutch when you're using the pedal.

[SPEAKER_00]: He said, but with the brake system, you really aren't when you're hitting the brakes, you're only using 20, 30 percent typically.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the bottom bit of travel doesn't get used and when you go to bleed them, you push pass that bottom bit of travel and then the seals blow up because they're just, they're not used to going to that part of the cylinder.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, then that was totally seized.

[SPEAKER_00]: He had to actually surgically remove the brake master because the captive, I think it was a nut broke off on the inside of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was a real pain in the butt.

[SPEAKER_00]: Both rear brake leaders had to be replaced.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was like, it was a total catastrophe.

[SPEAKER_00]: So all new brakes system essentially, except for the wheel cylinders, which he said are good to go.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got new electric fuel pump, new fluids, and everything, and then new seat belts.

[SPEAKER_00]: New seat belts.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the total for that is, [SPEAKER_01]: $3,500 on the $300 car.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the TFL way.

[SPEAKER_01]: We buy highs so low and we spend a lot of money like the Porsche fixing stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: And thanks to you guys watching and thanks for Patrons.

[SPEAKER_01]: I should be saying this because we're like, why are we giving these guys support?

[SPEAKER_01]: But that's what we do here because we love cars and we love fixing them and we love selling them and you know, putting them back on the road.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, we're like, what is that?

[SPEAKER_01]: $7,000 into a $4,000 car?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's uh, it's like I'm a really good car now and into your point like it's crusty, and it's it's a little sad looking Painting it's been there's no paint on it is dented, but it is such a fun experience super engaging Even though this is very much like the worst of the malaise era of fiasse 70 a we'd not be a great year for kind.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is even a 79 Yeah, so it's got a 2000 that's the least is our budget [SPEAKER_00]: The smaller engines, I think they locked you in Europe with the 1.4.

[SPEAKER_01]: We also got a supercharged one here in America or turbocharged.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they did.

[SPEAKER_00]: They did a turbocharged one in the 80s.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the 1.4, the 1.3, maybe it's a 1.3 that they sold in Europe, was nearly 700cc smaller than the 2 liter and made more power.

[SPEAKER_00]: because of the transmission.

[SPEAKER_00]: The smog disaster that we had here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, car sorted down.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to be taking a huge L on that thing when we go to sell.

[SPEAKER_00]: But very fun car.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, really one of my favorite cars that we've ever bought.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's less fun now that we spend so much money on it because sometimes getting a bargain makes it, you know, that much sweeter, but hopefully we'll be safe.

[SPEAKER_01]: And once you tell him what was actually causing that brake light to come on, because it wasn't the emergency brake.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, basically that light is used for the parking brake and for a low fluid sensor.

[SPEAKER_00]: So basically it was just leaking fluid out of the soft line and then got that into a point where the light was like, all right, we've got to stay on all the time because you're a little brake fluid.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, when you made a right turn, it would go off.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I thought it was sloshing back and forth.

[SPEAKER_00]: But look, we got a sorted car now, hopefully it's a fiat.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, we can't be surprised that we're spending money on a fiat.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's kind of what you do again there, fix it again, Tony.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because these things always happen in threes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was hoping that this was not the case.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's switch topics to Toyota's now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was hoping this was not going to be the case when we actually broke our 100 series Land Cruiser two weeks ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: You want to tell them that story, because there's another story of wool when paying there that was surprisingly hope, surprisingly, easily sorted.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't want to go to the full story.

[SPEAKER_00]: This will be now the third time we've told it on the podcast Right, but then you wanted to just wait.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like teasing people.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, but we told the story I told him also in the last one was going on But we didn't say how how I did yeah, yeah, I walked through it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, basically we blew the front diff I should say I blew the front diff on a hundred series land cruiser and then we had a viewer reach out Actually ship up ship us his old diff and now we're waiting We get that installed over Charlie's Toyota repair boulder.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I [SPEAKER_01]: unlike actually getting a whole new rebuilt diff which was going to cost us three and a half thousand the same thing that the spider cost us.

[SPEAKER_01]: Charlie's going to replace the diff with the one that our viewer sent.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you by the way.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is we've got the best viewers in the world so I want to think and we sent them some stickers and [SPEAKER_01]: you know paid obviously for the shipping and some more just as a thank you but uh... it's gonna be a thousand dollars to hopefully get this uh... land cruiser back on the road yeah which isn't too too terrible not so what we saved in land cruiser we put the fiat that's right that would have been my choice but yeah so it goes

[SPEAKER_00]: So, if you want to listen that full story, we're actually working on this off-road podcast that we're doing every two weeks, which we're profiling, some interesting off-roaders and talking about case night talk about what was happening in the community.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, check out last week's off-road podcast here on this channel, and you'll be able to get all that information.

[SPEAKER_01]: We should tell them about the story of the 1947 Jeep, because you guys might be thinking that we're only taking cars to repair shops, but actually Tommy, [SPEAKER_01]: with a little bit of help for me and James has been doing some wrenching on his own so you want to you want to tell him how you're about to spend $20,000 on a $10,000 Jeep or do you want to make that a separate podcast?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we'll talk about it next week.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because we talk about it in the in the garage segment, we do it next week.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we'll come back next week because there are some developments in Tommy's and it's a big development in Tommy's 1947 Jeep FESCO.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I would say you wouldn't call it FESCO.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's going pretty well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I'm having a really good time.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a lot of money, but any restoration is a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think at the end of it, I'll have a pretty cool Jeep.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll talk about that next week here at the TFL Car Chat Offroad 4 by Chat.

[SPEAKER_01]: But this is also kind of an off-road one because when we're talking about these two of us.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about what we did this week.

[SPEAKER_01]: To invite us to do this thing called the double, which was we flew to LA.

[SPEAKER_01]: We got in the new 2026 400 TRD Pro in no it's a name of the color wave maker.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wave maker, which is this crazy direct turquoise color and we drove all the way from [SPEAKER_01]: L.A. First day to mammoth because the idea was we were going to go surfing one day actually skiing one day and then surfing the next day because you can do that in California as you California's know and so we got this car and that way to make your color is bold by man.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is so bold.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well the reason the program is called the double is like a strict double in California is when you go skiing and surfing in the same day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're not going to do that at mammoth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was a whole point, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the cool thing about California is you've got such an incredible variety of topography that you can do that because you've got high altitude mountains with snow and then you know ocean with weight.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're into the program.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm supposed to go to Big Bear.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's close.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the problem is that the snow condition in Big Bear, I guess, were pretty poor.

[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of going to Big Bear, we went to mammoth, and then that's instead of a couple hours.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a five out of five, six-hour drive.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we did it over two days, but we really got to spend a lot of time in the 400-year-to-year pro.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we also drove a bunch of other vehicles within that body-on-frame total excess line-up.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about the two off-roaders and we'll kind of talk about what the ones we drove and what we think of each one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, but let's start with the 400 because we're talking about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to set the, let me just set the stage really quick.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just, I'll start with the cheapest and go to the most expensive, so you know the full range because two to build a lot of 400, so you've got the RAV4, it used to be an adventure now, it's called the Woodland.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then you got the BZ woodland.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going through all of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: This just keep don't be so grumpy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just let me set this date here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't be such a grump.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of on the bottom end and then you step up to the forerunner.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then the forerunner, of course, TRD pro or trail hunter.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then you go to the land cruiser and then from there you go to the Sequoia in terms of this I'm going up in price.

[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, TRD Pro, and then you guys switch to Lexus for the GX, and then after the Lexus GX, you go to the LX.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're starting up like 30,000 and going up to about 120,000 or more.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you're also missing, um, what am I, did you say, Lancuser?

[SPEAKER_01]: I did, I didn't say the truck, I'm just talking cars now.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I did all the cars and of course you also have the Tacoma and the Tundra in there on the Tundra side.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't keep going.

[SPEAKER_01]: So now Yeah, so this is a business.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a pretty important drive of the new twenty six for owner.

[SPEAKER_00]: So every year to it is a thing where [SPEAKER_00]: They launch a special color in the Tier D Pro, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of one of the signatures of the Tier D Pro lineup.

[SPEAKER_00]: This year is Wave Maker, but in the past, I kind of colors like Voodoo Blue.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been Army Green.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's been Cavalry Blue, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's been some really interesting greens and oranges and colors.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a really interesting one this Wave Maker, which is a since you've bright turquoise.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the big thing I want to talk about on this 400 was get everybody a little bit riled up in the comment section of the offer video.

[SPEAKER_01]: all TFL.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a $74,000 for under.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what do you think about that?

[SPEAKER_01]: What do I think about a sub?

[SPEAKER_01]: So as you know, we bought a 2025, this is the 2026 for right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were the first to have it because we wanted to review it.

[SPEAKER_01]: We wanted to have an ownership experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had the TRD offroad.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was 57,000, which is a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, [SPEAKER_01]: There I say the Raptor Bronco Raptor because at 74 you're only 5,000 away from a Bronco Raptor or Jeep Rubicon or maybe even a Jeep Rubicon 392 because there's a new There's a new Willys 392 coming out.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be what 70,000 so it's actually 4,000 more and the question is [SPEAKER_01]: Is a foreigner without a locking word if without a convertible tongue.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's got a locking word if I'm sorry without a locking front Oh, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, without a locking front if without a convertible top is it worth $74,000 and Bans are is tummy Probably not [SPEAKER_01]: Well, first of all, they're really hold their value.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they're really good at risk.

[SPEAKER_01]: But unfortunately, or fortunately, so does the Wrangler and so does the Bronco, they're brought for the all hold their value.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that gives you some comfort.

[SPEAKER_01]: Secondly, [SPEAKER_01]: This vehicle, as much as it's very good off-road, I don't know, let's say the Bronco, I said it this way in the video, if the Wrangler is the most off-road focus, I'm not gonna say worthy because they're all really good off-road, but the most [SPEAKER_01]: off-road focus, in other words, it's got the best approach, it's got straight up windshield, it's still on that, you know, heritage goes all the way back to off-roading.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then the forerunner is kind of the most on-road focus because it's the most comfortable to quiet, it's got the most refined mint in a lot of ways, the Broncos it's somewhere in between there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then you're getting a vehicle that's going to be the most comfortable for the majority of the time that most people use it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's worth money.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why people, and I don't understand this.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people will buy like a limited ring or a quarter or a regular and use it as their daily driver, which to me is fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's, you know, you're certainly driving a compromise vehicle on road, whereas this is, I think a little bit easier to live with.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think the problem is, though, [SPEAKER_00]: when you look at the toilet line up, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: The great thing about the foreigners specific going back to the mid-1980s is it was very much attainable every man for real drive, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, pretty much without exception, if you look at first gen, second gen, third gen, yeah, there were limited trims and there were, you know, some slightly abuser models, but they were all very attainable for the average Joe.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just feel like, especially with this Tier D Pro for 26 granted, this one's got some options on it, some options you probably don't, you'd like blue overlay on the Toyota and Blumen and that kind of thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: $74,000 just doesn't make this an attainable product for a lot of normal people, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: This is now a premium product that is going to be a stretch for a lot of families and then you think that's a little bit of a shame.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, you are looking at the top of the line.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you're also looking at Land Cruiser money.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm given the choice between a $74,000 for an RTRD Pro or, you know, Lankers or Lankers are which comes in around 70.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: After all, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then I would go for the Lankers, or just because I think even though they're both in the same chassis, it's got a little bit more airiness to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit more sort of the chain.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's they're both TJF, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then they say they have the same engine.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's 74 grand.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can also get yourself a Lexus GX.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you're not gonna get the over trail, which is the one you want.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but over trail starts at like 75, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You're not far off of an over trail.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that like, look, I'm not trying to sell this thing to everybody.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but they're selling it to the people who want the nicest, most premium, I know I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're never gonna see another one, especially in a wave maker on the road.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're just ironed.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what, different, she, [SPEAKER_00]: That's what differentiates a Toyota product from Alexa's product.

[SPEAKER_00]: In my mind, a Toyota product is largely supposed to be for everybody, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, it would be a premium exclusive Lexus product, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And when you're looking at a $74,000 Toyota product, it just feels a little backwards to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think that at 65, there's a lot of argument to be made for this vehicle, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But at $74,000, it's a stretch for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: It really is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but we're living this weird time right now, which is, I've never lived through a time like this, where people are spending normal people are spending like $10,000, $15,000 on roll like says, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if normal people are.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think normal people are spending 50,000 dollars on my legs.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not you, but I think that there are people who are spending that kind of money who aren't the Uber on the ultra-rich, because I just read a story where Rolex made the most money ever last year, it's been like 14 billion, I believe, but why that is?

[SPEAKER_00]: is because of this economy.

[SPEAKER_01]: There aren't that many like's over-rich people.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are now, though, the problem is that you've got this huge divide in the ultra-rich to everybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: And those ultra-richers are spending more money than ever on stuff like Rolexes.

[SPEAKER_01]: But they're not spending 14 billion on Rolexes.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of that is being spent by regular people because if you're ultra-rich, first of all, Rolex is just like, you know, it's like a time-ex.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Then you're going to...

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's...

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't agree with you unless you get one of the really like you know like boozey ones that are old and hard to get like the Steve McQueen one right the The Daytona and I don't know watches, but there are you know, there are Older the Rolexes that are worth a lot or you get like the pandas that are very But I think I think a lot of tech pros and a lot of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not fair to say normal people are buying Rolexes [SPEAKER_01]: I think when I say norm line, people that normally would not be buying Rolexes today are buying Rolexes and I think that is a reflection of what happened with COVID where people kind of all of a sudden figured out that they may not live, you know, to the point that they thought they were going to live.

[SPEAKER_01]: So why not spend it now because you can't take it with you?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's a lot of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's why we had this massive, at least that's one of the reasons we had all this massive inflation.

[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe normals not the right word, but regular people that are in the past, [SPEAKER_01]: Look, your dad, your grandfather left me a Rolex, and it's one of the few Rolexes that actually uses a battery.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to get into the whole watch discussion here, but he bought that when he was successful.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had a restaurant and we became successful.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted to kind of reward himself so he bought this Rolex.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he didn't go out and buy the president because I was with him when he bought it.

[SPEAKER_01]: The president is this like super gold all gold right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And back in, I think when he bought this in like the 80s or late 70s, the president was like $20,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think today I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't looked at it on outside of my price range.

[SPEAKER_01]: But they're like $50 to $100,000 if you get like the diamond-studded thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Very ostentatious.

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, but back then this was a watch you would buy kind of to reward yourself, but now people are collecting these and once upon a time when you would have one watch one Rolex as a way of saying, hey, I've made in the world now people have collections of Rolexes and this is a thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: These are really wealthy people that have collection, but they're the same people who are paying 74,000 dollars for a TRD pro for another way of making.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of a real shame.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because the great thing about the foreigner is that you didn't have to have a collection of Rolexes to be able to afford.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you don't have to buy the way of making it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can just go on buy regular Ford.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even though when we had was 58 grand.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that was also the TRD offroad.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can buy it because they started 42 Tommy.

[SPEAKER_00]: For real, drive one that doesn't exist in the real world.

[SPEAKER_00]: And even 42 grand for foreigners, just a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, I think it's important not to get out of touch with the median average house.

[SPEAKER_00]: The median salary in the US last year was $63,000, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That person is not buying a $15,000 Rolex and they're also not buying a foreigner.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just think that what's always made the foreigner so special is it's a vehicle that was like, you didn't need to be someone, you didn't need to be upper management to be able to afford a Toyota foreigner.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a Tacoma with a bed top on the back of it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why Marty McFly drove one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well he drove a truck, but the same essential kind of idea back in back to the future, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: $75,000 for under.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let me kind of put it to you from a business perspective, which is our business.

[SPEAKER_01]: The reason that like Doug DeMiro and Matt from a smoking tire do really well, [SPEAKER_01]: reviewing half a million million dollar cars, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Doug has a quintage, she has a GT.

[SPEAKER_01]: The reason they do so well, because let's face it.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're kind of every man, so we just bought an $9.15,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's kind of shows where we're at for the most part.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the reason that those guys do so well and are so popular is because we're in the aspiration business.

[SPEAKER_01]: people want to aspire to something and we make that possible by kind of they can live by carryously through us.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so by being able to review this and being able to drive it and to show it and to live this lifestyle we're kind of allowing some people to have that lifestyle through us and I understand that I'm very grateful for that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's kind of like it's a little [SPEAKER_01]: disingenuous to be like we're having this great lifestyle and then poop pulling the fact that total selling something for 74,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of feel like that's the two don't go together and so I thought I have to kind of look and see they wouldn't be building it and they wouldn't be pricing it at 74.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I get that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's my point, there are people who are willing to spend that much money.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not trying to show off by saying, look at me, I'm driving city for that in the lower leg.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, you're trying to show off, you're like humble bragging, like it's way too expensive and who can afford it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, this is our business, we do aspirational stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but my point is, a foreigner shouldn't be aspirational, it should be attainable.

[SPEAKER_00]: A land cruiser is aspirational.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but we're not living in 1970.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're not living in my dad's time anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're living in a completely different world.

[SPEAKER_01]: And for better or worse, we have to live in the world that we have to play the cards that we're dealt.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you've got an old soul, but to me, it kind of comes across as like, back in the good old days, you could buy a foreigner for 25.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you could, but that those days are gone.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but as much as I wish they were back as much as I wish we could go.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to step on Andre's toes here and go buy a truck for a new truck for $25 or $30,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: That those days are just gone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, the reality is they may be gone, but they're not gone completely.

[SPEAKER_00]: So for example, Andre was just out looking for materials.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I found them.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Maverick for $28,000, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, that was new.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that was new.

[SPEAKER_00]: New maverick.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is $28,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying every car needs to be $28,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll find a world lock for $48,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: With the, uh, hurricane.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also a great deal, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I just struggled to see the appeal of taking what's historically, maybe historically is where I look, historically in every man product.

[SPEAKER_01]: and then pushing it toward the upper echelon of society right we already have plenty of products for the upper echelon of society we already have the GX and we already have the LX the foreigner does cover a big bit of territory starts at 40 and goes to 64 that's a $25,000 let's call it different 74.

[SPEAKER_00]: 74 yeah that's a that's a $20,000 difference so if you can afford this one yeah I promise you this is not their bestseller no you're right you're I get it I get it I just it's I don't it's you're not making the pill easier to swallow here [SPEAKER_00]: You can wave your arms and say, oh, but that's where society is at, but that doesn't make it the sticker shock any less than it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: But no one's forcing to buy it.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just am a little bum that this is a cool product and it's out of the reach of somebody that would be interested in buying this product.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the other question is, this product, 74,000 dollars, especially in this color, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is this really going to appeal to somebody who's 65, 70, 75, who can afford this kind of vehicle in a bright blue?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a color that would look good to someone who's 28, 29, like me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also think that, that has changed actually.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think once upon a time, the people who had the most money, older folk, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: My age, traditionally were the ones who were buying the 9-11 who were buying the Ascent Martens, who were buying the GT3s, but I was just a pebble, you know, car week, which is probably the most expensive, [SPEAKER_01]: week in all of cars in America.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there were a lot of 20 somethings here.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just zipping around in Lamborghinis and in GT3s and in, you know, all kinds of crazy cars.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, don't get me wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: More so than the old pieces who were driving like the 1930s Della Hays.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the reality of the situation is...

[SPEAKER_00]: This is, you know, you claim that I was out of touch, that one week at Pebble Beach is probably the most out of touch week in the entire US.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that is such a small percentage of people.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you're missing the point.

[SPEAKER_01]: The point is, if you had gone to Pebble Beach, which I was 15 years ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: There were no 20 year olds driving.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there was no crypto 15 years ago either.

[SPEAKER_01]: The crypto wasn't a thing 15 years ago, so it is a thing now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying there were no 20, 30-year-old driving, you know, at that point it would have been Gaiardo's or what's the other one.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't think of any of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if I do, if I do a profile of the 20-somethings I'm friends with, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But you're living in a very, you can't do that at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a small world, but they're driving 07, or 04.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're driving old Volvo's, these are the people, these are the cars real people drive, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying I think that's 74,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: I call me crazy, but 74,000 people are better.

[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, if you do have 74,000 hours spent on the floor, give me the review of the car.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think it's like?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's great.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's I am a sucker for color.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a color that cuts both ways.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some people hate it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some people like it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's super loud, but you'll never lose it in a parking lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: My question is would I buy it over land cruiser and the answer is no for that much money.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd rather get a land cruiser.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's some also some differences between the two for instance.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the land cruiser has full-time for a wheel drive, which is nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, that's really nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: It also has something like it has a heads-up display, which this doesn't have.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_01]: This has things that the Lancers who doesn't have, well, it doesn't have the built-in compressor.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it does.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think this one does.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, maybe it's a trailhunter that has the built-in compressor.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the deal with this one is, there's a lot of differences.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's got, for example, the Fox QS3 suspension on it, it's very cool, it's got 33-inch all-thrain tires, it's got this one with respect with rock rails.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this one's a very nice, it quit one, it had the ARB roof rack thing on the top of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot to like about this vehicle.

[SPEAKER_00]: So start with the power train, 2.5 liter, 2.4 liter, excuse me, turbo 4, standard hybrid system, a 465 pound feet of torque, 8 speed automatic, power train, I'm going to give it like...

[SPEAKER_00]: 7 out of 10.

[SPEAKER_00]: The performance is definitely there.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't sound good.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's really quick, but it's a very coarse experience in the engine, and I actually think the noise vibration in harshness is quite a bit more than the Land Cruiser we just drove as a whole.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you've got to touched on this earlier, the biggest issue with this vehicle is the interior cabin space is very limited.

[SPEAKER_00]: So trunk space, trunk floor is high because of the battery, and [SPEAKER_00]: And then the rear seat room is very cramped.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I also think the visibility out of it is pretty poor.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give it like a three out of 10.

[SPEAKER_00]: Especially considering how short the windows are, how tall that fake hood scoop is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not with the fake hood scoop.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's very hard to see out of this thing going on the road.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's my favorite part about the 250 series Land Cruiser is that the belt line is low.

[SPEAKER_00]: Windows are huge, hood relatively compact.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you get kind of this fishball impact, but it feels very open and airy, where this feels a little bit cave-like.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think that the pros for me, I love to track width actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels very stable going down trails, quite a bit wider than a standard forner.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you, I love the coin, I love the overall design, I think it's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love the standard skid plate and protection.

[SPEAKER_00]: Crawl controls still probably the best in the industry.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot to really like.

[SPEAKER_00]: The trail camera is very, very good.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I like a lot about this new forner.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but compared to some of the other products in the Toyota Lexus lineup, especially in the off-road space, I think that there are better options out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I would say that, um, get yourself a Land Cruiser if you're older, get yourself a foreigner if you're younger.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or if you're old and crotchety like me, you can get a model T. Yes, you can get a model T. All right, let's go before we go to the GX and Alex, which we also drove.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about my embarrassment and doing a Superman while trying to curl.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I always thought to myself, you know, I'm getting up there, but there's one Olympic sport that I could still do and that would be curling.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Toyota actually took us at mammoth to the local skiering and they let us curl.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a lot harder than I thought it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: because what you have to do is you have to balance yourself on the stone and then on this little triangle thing and then you have to push off of these like they look like starter like the things you have when you're sprained you have those what are those things called I don't know starting blocks yeah look at starting blocks that are built into the eyes so what you have to do is you have to push off and then you have to switch legs so one goes forward one goes backwards and then the idea is [SPEAKER_01]: By how hard you push off, that's how you launch the stone.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're not actually pushing the stone with your arm.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're actually pushing it with your leg.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you push with your arm there.

[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then when Tommy pushed it there, he kind of slipped a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I Superman.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was me following the stone down the ice.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I have incredibly poor balance.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've known this my whole life.

[SPEAKER_01]: So any kind of boarding sport, I'm really bad at.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I thought that maybe that would not apply to curling, unfortunately it does.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was a horrible curler, but it was fun to try it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was really interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, that little triangle I'm supporting on myself on, you don't get that in the Olympics.

[SPEAKER_00]: Of course you don't.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's like training wheels for exactly amateur curlers.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's my incredible phase of my concentration phase.

[SPEAKER_00]: I had a really good time learning how to do it and it was it's a lot, lot, lot harder than it looks So for those of you who watched the Olympics this year thinking I could do it I think you should try it and there's actually curling leaves and I've no doubt you can get pretty good at it Just as like a normal person.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would be good at the sweet thing [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the sweeping so the uses I'm clear to me you at the sweeping does anything It all is sweeping to clear the ice to speed up the stealth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the little bit water built up underneath it You can control direction.

[SPEAKER_00]: I always sweep in a sweep in a sweep and it seems to make no difference at all when I was in charge of sweeping But it's just it's sweeping does make the sport more interesting [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know who came up with a sweeping or real I still like I know they say it does something I just don't buy it and then it's also the way that way it's not like darts where Let's say you are trying to build as many points as you want and so you know if you get the bullseye You get whatever number of points if you get the little small areas you can last points But still more points the way this works is if somebody hits the dot

[SPEAKER_01]: which is the bullseye in curling.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's called the dot.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's called the button.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or the button.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's called the button you're right.

[SPEAKER_01]: If somebody hits the button, then all the other stones around it don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if you leave your stone like there, you're watching there in the blue part of the of the of the dart.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess dartboard.

[SPEAKER_01]: What would you call that?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't pay that close attention to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to cope with the correct term so that I sound like I know what I'm talking about.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, listen, I think that let me finish what I'm saying.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you guys, you didn't mean no respect.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do, I just, I, I know a fence up, but I'm getting bored listening to myself talk about curling.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hold on, hold on.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what's cool about this is you can have stones on the blue part of the board or whatever it's called but if you land one in the button all those other stones don't count for any points.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's what I was trying to say.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so I know nothing about curling after doing it for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: You were with one who was curling.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I still know the rules.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just pushed the, I pushed the stone down the ice and I had a great time, but I don't know how the scoring works are really what the objectives are.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was a ton of fun, and I would definitely recommend you guys try it and actually try to learn the rules.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that it could be very relaxing learning how to do curling.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I really appreciate Toyota for letting me try it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you also went skiing, you have a good ski day.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's bad ski day, it rained.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not when it's raining and skiing, it's no fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we hit the week, I'm incredibly wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had 70 miles in our winds.

[SPEAKER_01]: Most of mammoth, which is incredible.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a flakes, which is an incredible scary.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was shut down.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they were only like four lifts running because of the incredibly strong winds.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then they were these clouds that were coming in and in between, like, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: Getting blown off the lift.

[SPEAKER_01]: It would rain intermittently and so it was worse than spring skiing because the snow was really heavy And it would catch and it took every bit of my 225 pounds actually go down a pretty steep hill because it was almost slowing me down.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was that bad So this is not to this fall.

[SPEAKER_01]: We just hit a really bad dead mammoth and this has just been a horrible year for any kind of snow Colorado has no snow [SPEAKER_01]: all of you people out there on the East Coast and Midwest, you've got an all our snow.

[SPEAKER_01]: We get no snow, which is bad because we're going to have fires come soon.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, big problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: The highlight of my trip, though, as much as I maybe didn't like the foreigner that much, I did like this vehicle, the Lexus GX.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is the car we drove back.

[SPEAKER_00]: and then we'll finish with the Alex, because I got some thoughts on that one too, but the GX, this is a really bad picture I took, the GX is the Lexus version of the Land Cruiser, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And the Overtracks, the Offord version of the Lexus version of the Land Cruiser, and [SPEAKER_00]: like talk about the difference between this and the foreigner.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is, this is cushy, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The visibility's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know I'm an old man, but just like both honor and offer this thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's such a better ride quality.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know that the QS3 shocks in the Toyota are [SPEAKER_00]: somewhat adjustable, but the GX, the problem with the Toyota Rye Quality for me is not the actual suspension, it's the firmness of the spring.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a really stiff spring.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really think that the Lexus is so much more floaty, so much more quiet on the road.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, [SPEAKER_00]: going back to prices is $86,000, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Which is a lot, a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I really feel like when you step into the Lexus name plate, you get more sound detonating, you get nice and leather, you get a much better autonomous system which we can talk about, you get massaging seats.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I do feel like now we start to look at some value along with that offer capabilities.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you also get a six cylinder.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is a good point.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you get the 3.4 liter twin turbo V6, 479 pound feet of torque now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's 3.4 liter in a horsepower.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tons of power, tons of torque.

[SPEAKER_00]: This thing was an incredible road trip machine.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you want to talk about our issue with the lane centering that we had?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, with the Toyota.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or they called lane tracing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for an or we tried to use it driving up to mammoth.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you, [SPEAKER_01]: If you didn't have any pressure on the steering wheel, in other words, you had your hand just resting on the side of the steering wheel, resting on the bottom.

[SPEAKER_01]: Within a matter of seconds, it would start yelling at you, I think that's because there's a torque sensor in the steering wheel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so it feels no pressure, otherwise no torque, then it just says, this guy's not holding the wheel, and it's incredibly frustrating because you are holding the wheel.

[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, we're doing a great series.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I hope you watch.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're calling it the Willy Mammoth Challenge, where we are.

[SPEAKER_01]: testing these autonomous or semi-autonomous systems on what I think is one of the more difficult traits of Streets of I-70, which is basically the part of I-70 that has steep incline, steep curves, road construction, pretty much everything traffic that you would want to make a very difficult autonomy test or assigning points.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, go check that out.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I would give the Toyota four on a very low mark.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we started 100 points.

[SPEAKER_01]: We subtract points every time.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like yells at you.

[SPEAKER_01]: If anything, if like an accident happens, then it's an immediate fail.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or if you think of potential accident happens, I don't want to go through the whole scoring structure.

[SPEAKER_01]: But this car would have been incredibly unhelpful at [SPEAKER_01]: helping you go down the road just because it's almost easier to just steer yourself which is interesting because on the way back we had the GX and it was a completely different story you want to talk about that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I mean I think don't quote me on this but basically the toilet like you said requires some input constantly on the wheel for it to know and the real road reality is it feels like you're always trying to make like [SPEAKER_00]: Like a right turn or a left turn, just to convince the car to go straight, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You actively have to apply pressure one way or another for the computer to realize your paying attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now the GX, I think, uses a haptic sensor on the steering wheel, or it's, sorry, touch capacitive of the word I'm looking for.

[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, the steering wheel can tell via the interaction with your skin that you're holding it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you can just you can put your head gently a finger two fingers wherever anywhere on the wheel Cardinals you're paying attention and then it just takes over right yeah, thanks for much more pleasant [SPEAKER_01]: They're eyes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's not always beeping at you, you know, I was doing a little jiggle self driving capacitance.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, light, light whatever on the steering wheel and the things like, all right, he's good to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so in the old Tesla's people used to do things like they would take Velcro shake weights and put them on the steering wheel, trying before full self driving, obviously, without a pilot.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that the vehicle felt [SPEAKER_00]: or in Jerk banana, type of banana to the wheel?

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, whatever created enough torque to fool the vehicle and to think that there was a hand on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, with this system, you don't need to do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can just kind of touch the steering wheel and it goes down the road.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's much more comfortable, much more relaxing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Much more advanced I would say than the 400 system.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I really liked it a lot and the car I mean it really won me over and the most interesting thing we did is we on the way out We stopped at an off-road park did like a little off-road thing with the 400 and there was this ditch crossing Where you put two wheels in the ditch try to climb this hill Fort or bottomed out right I centered itself had to make sure that he and maybe you can find that section because it's kind of interesting It wasn't very hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't very steep, but the 400 basically got itself high centered [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, we just did it as a test to see how the ground clearance was, and it, you know, rock rails, we knew we were going to break it, so we're like, let's, let's just, it's on to have a lot of floating in.

[SPEAKER_00]: There it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just see if we can get this thing stuck in the ditch.

[SPEAKER_00]: He knows where it's at, you know, in the video.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you can take us right there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you got a stuck in the ditch.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it was, it was obviously not the right line here, but we just did it as a little test to see what happens.

[SPEAKER_00]: So here you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're crying out this hill.

[SPEAKER_00]: You do your left wheels inside this groove in the earth.

[SPEAKER_00]: small hill and then wait for it wait for it a little bit of throttle.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're good boom right there on the control arm and you try to go higher vehicle gets more and more beached, a little bit of throttle, crawl control front wheel spinning rear wheel spinning locker engaged nothing's going on your stuck.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the next day we came back into that is same exact hill climb in the Lexus GX to kind of show how that would get stuck in respond and it didn't get stuck.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know if it's because it had a longer, wider, taller wheelbase, any of that, but you did this exact same obstacle, put the wheel in the exact same place, and as you can tell, the foreigner is beached, but the Lexus just drove up and I was, you know, very rarely am I like surprised?

[SPEAKER_01]: It was going to happen?

[SPEAKER_01]: That was a complete surprise.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that one didn't even beach, it didn't even scrape at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we're really interesting result.

[SPEAKER_01]: And here's the tip to the wise.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you're going to be doing YouTube videos and you know you might could start doing it on an uphill so that you can just back down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that is a key.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is definitely key to success.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that was really cool and interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I just really found love with that GX.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the question is, GX or Land Cruiser.

[SPEAKER_01]: Land Cruiser.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because you can't get the GX.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you could, though.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can't.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't live a world.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can't get them.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to get Land Cruiser, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because Land Cruiser has been out longer, I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or about the same time?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think it's been out longer, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you know, we're trying to buy the Land Cruiser out of the fleet.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see if that works, depending on how the budget pans out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Probably doesn't help, but we just bought a 911 for 15k.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I would get the Land Cruiser just because I kind of feel like I love the name.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love the brand, and to me, the GX is a little too posh, bougie, to take off road.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel bad about taking it off road.

[SPEAKER_01]: It feels also much bigger and much heavier, which it probably is, but to me, the Land Cruiser is kind of the sweet spot.

[SPEAKER_01]: The 400 feels a little too sporty.

[SPEAKER_01]: It'll rise somewhat choppy.

[SPEAKER_01]: People are saying when we said that, that if we adjusted the shocks on the fox settings and we didn't, so maybe that's on us, so I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I could be honest.

[SPEAKER_00]: Although, I've done it in the past and it doesn't have that big of an impact in my opinion.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm not sure, people think the chucks.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not about rebound more than it is about right comfort in some ways.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I like the Lancers are more, a couple of reasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: The power train, it's not as engaging and it's not as refined.

[SPEAKER_00]: You get the four cylinder turbo hybrid, but you do get better fuel economy.

[SPEAKER_00]: 20 MPG combined versus 17 rated.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like the looks of the Lancers a little bit more and I also like how it's not quite as fancy on the inside, so you're not really worried about getting the super dusty and dirty.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think those are all really good things for the how I would use this product.

[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, I think the Land Cruiser is even though you don't get EKDSS, you can't get a fully discredible front sway bar, which is great to have.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think it's a great product and for my use case it works just a little bit better, but I love both of them a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're both great products.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know what, it was a real shame when we went on the GX launch.

[SPEAKER_01]: They had set up, I think people had said at least that it was a pretty difficult off-road course, but the way that we were there on was after a bad rainstorm and it was washed out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically we just took the GX over trail on a dirt road and to me, [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think, feel like it was very off-road worthy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so then when we got it in the fleet, I was worried about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so when we actually took it off-road, me and James, we took it down the Switzerland trail, which is a little bit harder than a dirt road.

[SPEAKER_01]: But this was the first time that I have ever taken it into something that is...

[SPEAKER_01]: relatively difficult and then to see it actually just you know walk up this pretty sandy pretty interesting trail was something that I was not ready for and so I was genuine impressed at how good it is off road.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it is a very good off-roader.

[SPEAKER_01]: The other issue of course I had with it or I have with it is it doesn't seem to have the right amount of approach or departure angle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe a little bit less than the lag, because there's still a lot of plastic.

[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of plastic, that brings us to another vehicle we drove on this trip, which is the Lexus LX 700H over trail.

[SPEAKER_00]: Boom, they're the two side by side, so both of these in the color earth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now the LX, while the GX is considered a Lancuser product, the light-duty Lancuser, the LX is the U.S. version of the 300 series full-blown Lancuser.

[SPEAKER_00]: What'd you think?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, same power train, different power train.

[SPEAKER_01]: No more V8.

[SPEAKER_01]: But slightly different power train.

[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty much, I thought they were both had the 360.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's both three-fourths.

[SPEAKER_00]: Be force, sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the LX is a hybrid.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the GX is a, is a, is a, is a gasoline only.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like the difference between the hybrid and non-hybrid four.

[SPEAKER_00]: So over 500 pound feet of torque, if I remember correctly, on that LX, what was most surprised about is sizing wise or not, actually, that different.

[SPEAKER_00]: The, the, the, the right on the same hundred 12-inch wheelbase, the LX is three inches longer, which, you know, is considerable, but not actually that much.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then when you consider the GX doesn't, [SPEAKER_00]: in the overtrails spec doesn't come with a third row.

[SPEAKER_00]: The GX actually has a significantly bigger trunk than the LX.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if you compare the two, you're looking at a $44,000 difference, which is a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Base to base.

[SPEAKER_00]: So 75 for the standard overtrails.

[SPEAKER_00]: versus 119 for the standard LX.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a lot of difference in terms of sheer dollars.

[SPEAKER_01]: For that, of course, not only get the hybrid, but you also get a triple-locked Lexus.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that is a huge difference.

[SPEAKER_00]: You get the hybrid system with redundancies, which is crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: First, ever Lexus system to, instead of just using the motor generator to start the engine, they added a separate starter and alternator in case the hybrid system fails, which you know it's not because it's a Lexus hybrid system, but that just goes to show how overbuilt the Lexus.

[SPEAKER_01]: So here's how I look at it.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you compare it to the GX, it seems like it's very expensive and probably not worth the extra $44,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: At that point, you might as well just get the GX, [SPEAKER_00]: It tells less, too, that the LX toes 8,000 versus 9,000 in the cheaper GX.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're not getting the third row, but, you know, I don't need a third row.

[SPEAKER_01]: True.

[SPEAKER_01]: But my point would be that it doesn't compete with the GX.

[SPEAKER_01]: It actually competes with a range rover.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you get the fancy LX with the...

[SPEAKER_01]: business jet jet seats, you know, the captain's chairs the back.

[SPEAKER_01]: It actually competes with a land rover auto biography.

[SPEAKER_01]: It also competes directly being triple-ocked with the G-Wagon and a G-Wagon would probably start at 175,000 that auto biographies like 250,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can get a G-Wagon 63 which is going to be 225,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: And at that competitive level, the LX is one hell of a bargain because you're getting [SPEAKER_01]: Both ton of luxury, you're getting three rows of comfort, you're getting a triple IV vehicle that feels like nothing doesn't gonna be real stop it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you're getting it for $50 to $80,000 less than the competition, which is a pretty good bargain.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think that the, [SPEAKER_00]: there's some bad things about it like the the stack screens are kind of silly in my opinion I'm not sure that you need the bottom screen to tell you suspension position and steering angle it's kind of cool to have the worst thing about it is everything's in the screen so the HVC is in the screen no that's in the GF everything in GF Alex has got some physical control so the biggest difference from me is it's 600 pound weight penalty going from the GX to the LX [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's hugely heavy, be 60, 200 pound, I think, is what that Alex weighs.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you really feel that everywhere, you feel it off her, but you also feel it specifically on the road.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there is a sense of solidity that definitely comes with that, it feels like an old-school land cruiser in a way that maybe a GX doesn't, but it also feels like an old-school land cruiser in the way that it feels big and heavy, it's just very cumbersome.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I also do love that bank vault experience that you just know that that vehicle is built to last as long as the vehicle is physically possible, able to be able to last.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just quickly off-roading in Colorado, we have a lot of trees right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of big boulders that you have to go around or through.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm not a huge fan of [SPEAKER_01]: big off-roaders here in Colorado, so I think the perfect size off-roader in Colorado is like a mid-sized truck.

[SPEAKER_01]: Charlie's Jeep.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't value having a top or heater, anyway.

[SPEAKER_01]: The problem with, like, HD truck and off-road one, or Alancrasers, they're just way too big and cumbersome and rolly pulley for Colorado style off-roading.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you have to weave your way through trees or boulders, they're just really difficult.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had that 200 series and I took it up Iron Clads and we had to go up that kind of v-natch and it was just no fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, like I said, if you're Moev, it's a whole different world.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not technically that much bigger than the GX, but everything that feels like it's a whole different world.

[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like it's a whole different world.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the way is substantially bigger.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's finish this up by ranking them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, no, we got to show you surfing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I OK.

[SPEAKER_00]: I went surfing, and I was really bad at it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not sure we need to see myself go surfing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we need to see those surfing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this was the beach part of the double.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there is Tommy.

[SPEAKER_01]: getting up on a surfboard, a Dana point, and look, he did it, Tommy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, look straight up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Look at that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Look so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did it for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did have a really good time surfing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was a ton of fun learning how to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I really enjoyed that process.

[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you to Toyota for letting me go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Another point is you can use these vehicles if you have this sort of lifestyle to ski and to surf.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly that was the whole point of the program.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you buy an LX, you can invade a small country.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you've got options there too.

[SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't part of the program, but it could have been.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you could take your whole family skiing and surfing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's rank all the off-roaders.

[SPEAKER_00]: Case night did this actually in the last episode, by wanting to get your opinion.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you got to go, how do we rank them?

[SPEAKER_01]: Do we rank them from how we would buy them?

[SPEAKER_01]: Or how we like them?

[SPEAKER_01]: How you like them?

[SPEAKER_01]: How about we rank them through you talked about?

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's make it simple.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's just do the three ways.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I had the full bone one last week though.

[SPEAKER_00]: We did four on our, we did land cruiser, we did Sequoia, GX and LX, only five cars.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we don't have, I haven't driven this a quite a long time ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't want it the office like a month ago.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't drive it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would take that out of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think people use it to off-road.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is one that is more of a family holiday than an off-roader.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have the TRD Pro, but let's just, let's just, let's just the four we talked about.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to start with four-runner versus line cruiser versus GX versus Lexus.

[SPEAKER_01]: How do you believe that the one I would buy or the one that?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, you just go best to worst.

[SPEAKER_00]: So here's my list.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: My favorite, blank loser.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Second favorite GX.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: Third favorite, LX, fourth favorite, border.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: The one I would buy would be the blank loser.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's your number one.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's my number one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, if I had an unlimited budget, then I would probably get the GX.

[SPEAKER_01]: Believe it or not.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not the blank loser because it's too big.

[SPEAKER_01]: So GX?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, GX and then four under and then LX.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you just swapped Alex and forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: The problem with the LX, this is cases problem, is that there's so much plastic on it that it for trail use, it's very, like look how low that front end doesn't, on the LX is, it's very minimal.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that this ranking was based on off-roading.

[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't based on just living with.

[SPEAKER_01]: What about living with?

[SPEAKER_01]: My list is exactly the same.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would do Land Cruiser, GX, LX-4.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would probably get the GX over the Land Cruiser if I wanted something that I was just going to drive around.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, fair enough.

[SPEAKER_01]: The foreigner, it's very specialized off-road, and then we'd have to compare it really to a Wrangler to Bronco, and that's a whole different story.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, guys, let us know what you think about our little adventure here and what you think of the vehicle that we've talked about today.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you make sure time you surfing again?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't we don't need to see me surfing again.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh god.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's yours.

[SPEAKER_01]: Look how good you are.

[SPEAKER_00]: So bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is like your second time surfing and you managed to stand up on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I managed to stand up more the first time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me tell you what.

[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're standing up.