The Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9 is a famous old “hot hatch” that car fans still talk about. Here they’re pointing out that some of its factory alloy wheels came from different makers, and you can tell which by the stamp.
Alloy wheels are the aluminum wheels you often see on performance cars. They can be lighter than steel wheels, which can make the car feel a bit sharper and more responsive.
The Peugeot 205 CTI is a small sporty car from the 1980s. It’s the kind of car people like because it’s fun and has a strong following. The podcast mentions it while talking about specific parts and details, like wheels.
Unsprung mass is basically the weight of the parts that the suspension has to “control” directly, like the wheels. If that weight is lower, the car can react better when the road is bumpy.
Concept
wheel supplier stamps (Speedline vs SMR)
They’re talking about how some original wheels were made by different companies. You can sometimes tell which company made yours by looking for a stamp, and that’s important for people who care about originality.
The Volkswagen Golf is a common compact car. The podcast is talking about a performance version called the 1.9 GTI. It’s mentioned because something is happening that will affect people who own that model.
They’re talking about visiting famous old race tracks—Riverside and Willow Springs—to watch classic racing. That’s the setting for the stories about the cars and drivers they admire.
The Shelby Cobra is a very famous old American sports car. They mention it because it was one of the iconic cars people watched racing at those historic tracks.
The Ford Galaxy is an older Ford from the 1960s. In this segment, they’re talking about a specific Galaxy that Dan Gurney raced, and why that car matters to the owner’s story.
A replica is a car made to copy a famous older car. Here, Steve builds a replica of Dan Gurney’s car because it’s the one he’s always wanted to recreate.
A side exhaust means the exhaust tips come out along the side of the car. It’s a common modification for looks and fitment when people customize their exhaust.
Ceramic coating is a special heat-resistant coating. On exhaust parts, it helps keep the heat under control and can protect the metal from getting too hot.
Carburetors are older-style parts that mix fuel with air for the engine. More carburetors usually means the engine can get fuel more precisely when you press the gas.
A “V8” is an engine with eight cylinders arranged in a V shape. “Screaming” is just a way of saying it sounds really loud and exciting when it revs high.
“Independent manufacturers” are outside companies that make parts for racing, like engines. The idea here is that rule changes could let smaller specialists compete again.
Cosworth is a racing-engine company from the UK. In the past, it made engines for Formula One teams, and the speaker is hoping for a return of that kind of specialist.
Matra is a racing brand from France that has been involved in Formula One in the past. The speaker is using it as an example of specialist teams/engine builders.
Renault is a big car brand that has been involved in Formula One. The speaker is using it as an example of a large manufacturer versus smaller engine builders.
Brand
Hewlin gearboxes
This sounds like a gearbox maker mentioned in racing history. The point is that certain specialist companies supplied parts like gearboxes to teams.
The Escort is a compact car model from Ford. In racing, some Escorts were built with very strong engines and race gearboxes. The podcast mentions it because the speaker is describing the special racing versions and their parts.
The Rover SD1 is an older Rover car that was made for everyday driving, but it also shows up in motorsport stories. In the podcast, it’s mentioned because a racing driver is associated with it. The point is more about the car’s role in that context than about modern ownership.
The Aston Martin Valhalla is a supercar from Aston Martin with a mid-engine layout. Here, they’re talking about how it feels extremely capable and fast, but still comfortable enough to drive on the road.
They’re talking about how the seat and steering wheel placement felt while driving. If the wheel is positioned just right, it can make the car easier to control and more comfortable.
Torque vectoring is a system that helps send power to the wheels in a smarter way while you’re turning. The goal is to make the car turn and grip better, especially in corners.
A differential is a set of gears that lets wheels spin at different speeds, like when you turn. On a performance car, how the differentials work can change how the car grips and turns.
A rose joint is a special type of joint used in car suspension or steering links. It lets parts move smoothly in different directions while keeping the handling more precise—something race cars care about.
“Bushed” means the car uses rubber-like inserts in the suspension or steering connections. That helps smooth things out, but it can make the steering feel a bit less immediate than a more rigid joint.
In endurance races, drivers don’t stay in the car the whole time. An “inter” is one of the driving stints, and the “last inter” is the final part before the race ends—when strategy is crucial.
Term
second last lap
Near the end of a race, especially in endurance events, drivers often stop taking risks. “Second last lap” is basically the point where you’re thinking about finishing safely rather than gaining more position.
The steering arm is a linkage piece that helps turn the steering wheel’s input into the wheels actually turning. If it gets damaged, you can lose steering and the car can become undriveable.
Car
Bluebird
Bluebird is a legendary British speed boat that was built to set world records on water. The hosts are excited because the original wreck was found and rebuilt, and it’s now back running again.
A hydroplane is a special kind of speed boat that tries to ride on top of the water instead of pushing through it. Record runs are extremely risky because small mistakes at high speed can be catastrophic.
A turbine is an engine that makes power by using fast-moving hot gas to spin a rotor. It’s the kind of power source you’d use when you need a lot of sustained thrust.
The Toyota Supra is a sports car made by Toyota. People like it because it’s built to be quick and fun to drive, and many owners modify them to make them even faster. It’s being mentioned because someone is talking about how much effort goes into making one perform well.
Drag is the force that slows you down as you move through air or water. The faster you go, the harder it is to push through that resistance—so you may need a lot more power for a small gain.
A crankshaft is a key rotating part inside an engine. It helps turn the engine’s internal motion into the spinning motion that drives the bike or car.
Car
RC166
RC166 is an old Honda race bike from the 1960s. Chris is talking about a replica that’s especially wild because it uses six cylinders in a 250cc class.
“250cc class” is a racing category based on engine size. It means the bike’s engine is around 250 cubic centimeters, and the RC166’s design was unusual for that size.
“Six cylinders” means the engine has six working parts where fuel is burned. Chris is pointing out that the RC166 had six cylinders, which is a big deal for a small racing bike.
A powertrain package is the complete set of components that make the vehicle move—typically the engine plus the drivetrain elements that transmit power to the wheels. In racing contexts, it often implies a highly integrated, purpose-built setup.
A track day is when people take their own cars or bikes to a closed race track to practice. It’s a low-pressure way to get better and learn the circuit.
Saddle time is the amount of time a rider spends on the bike. More saddle time improves familiarity with controls, braking points, and how the bike behaves—especially important for refining technique.
The Jaguar XJR15 is a very serious, track-oriented Jaguar. The hosts are basically saying it’s one of the big “wow” cars at the event—so loud and special you notice it immediately.
The Jaguar CX-75 is a Jaguar concept car—basically a showpiece that previews what the brand might build next. In this episode, it’s mentioned as a key “future Jaguar” talking point.
Car
Jaguar XJR14
The Jaguar XJR14 is a Jaguar race car. The segment is treating it like a legendary machine—something a top driver considers among the best he’s driven.
The Jaguar Type 00 is a prototype car, meaning it’s not a normal production model you’d just buy. Jaguar is bringing it to an event to talk about it. The podcast is mentioning it because it’s an important example of what Jaguar is working on.
The Jaguar XK120 is a famous old Jaguar sports car from the early days of modern performance. Here, the host is talking about a specific XK120 that’s been set up to drive well, with racing-style touches.
The Jaguar D-Type is a famous Jaguar race car, especially known for Le Mans. Here, the host is saying the XK120 has a “D-type head,” meaning it’s been modified with parts inspired by that racing car.
A limited-slip differential helps the car put power down better when one wheel starts to slip. It’s a traction aid that makes the car feel more controlled, especially on tricky surfaces.
The Jaguar XJS Cabriolet is an open-top version of the XJS, meant for comfortable cruising. Here, the host highlights the four-liter straight-six engine and a classic color-and-interior combo.
A driveshaft is a spinning part that sends power from the gearbox to the rear wheels. The host is basically saying you can see that moving when you look at the car from behind, which makes the car feel more mechanical and alive.
The Jaguar E-Type is a legendary old British sports car. People love it not just for how it looks, but also for the stories and history behind specific cars. This episode is especially about a Series 1 E-Type and why its background makes it feel special.
“Flat floor” here is about the shape of the car’s underside. Car people sometimes use it as a quick label for early E-Types, but the host is saying it’s not always the best or most accurate way to describe the differences. It’s more about how the car looks than a simple one-size-fits-all fact.
The Jaguar Mark 10 is a classic Jaguar “big saloon” used for comfort and status. The host is pointing out that this one had a divider/partition so the back seat could be more private from the driver.
The “pedal box” is where the pedals are mounted under the dashboard. If it’s positioned a bit differently, it can make the car much easier—or harder—to drive comfortably.
The Daimler Super V8 is a big, luxury car. The host is talking about the specific “Her Majesty” example and how the seating/driver area is set up so the steering wheel and roofline relate in a very particular way.
The McLaren MP4-12C is a high-performance supercar. It’s built for very fast driving and advanced engineering. The podcast mentions it because the speaker is choosing it over other options.
“Software related” means the car’s computer systems were the cause, not a broken mechanical part. In this case, the symptoms show up through warning lights and electronic glitches.
“Warning lights flashing” means the dashboard lights keep coming on and blinking. Usually that indicates the car has detected a problem somewhere in its systems.
The Ineos Grenadier is a tough off-road SUV. The host is saying it gets a ton of criticism online, and he’s even feeling a bit bad for it despite finding it ugly up front.
“Normally aspirated” means the engine isn’t using a turbo or supercharger to force air in. So a “V8 normally aspirated” is an eight-cylinder engine that breathes naturally, which many enthusiasts like for how it feels and sounds.
The Audi RS4 is a faster, sportier Audi model. In this part of the conversation, they’re debating whether the RS4 is actually good compared to the RS6.
Concept
unpopular opinion
An “unpopular opinion” is just a way of saying, “I know most people disagree with me, but here’s what I think.” The host uses it to introduce his contrarian car take.
The VW Beetle is a famous Volkswagen that’s been around for decades and is known for being simple and popular. A lot of people love it, but the host is saying it just doesn’t click for him.
The Defender is a tough-looking Land Rover that’s meant for serious off-road use. Here, the host is saying he doesn’t understand why people spend so much on it and that he finds it uncomfortable.
The Ferrari 575 is a V12 Ferrari grand tourer. Even though it sounds amazing and looks great, Harris says it felt poorly controlled on rough roads and nearly scraped or damaged the bottom of the car.
The Ferrari 550 is a classic Ferrari V12 grand tourer—big, fast, and known for its dramatic sound. In the story, it’s the earlier car Harris had experience with before the newer one.
The BMW 5 Series is a comfortable, mid-size luxury car. The podcast mentions the “550” versions, which are the stronger, more powerful versions of that model line. It’s being referenced because the speaker remembers driving them and is talking about how they felt.
The sump is the oil pan under the engine. If you hit the ground hard enough, you can damage it—so Harris is describing a serious underbody scrape risk.
Term
undergusset
He’s talking about something on the bottom of the car—like a protective panel—that can get scraped or ripped off if you hit rough ground.
Car
Ferrari
Ferrari is a famous Italian car brand that makes high-performance sports cars. The hosts are using it as an example of how some brands handle publicity and opinions about their cars.
The chassis is basically the car’s main frame. It’s what everything else mounts to, so if someone criticizes it, they’re talking about how the car’s structure affects how it drives.
“Too stiff” usually means the car doesn’t absorb bumps very well, so it can feel harsh on rough roads. The speaker is saying the suspension setup can make the ride feel uncomfortable.
Suspension is what connects the wheels to the car and helps smooth out bumps. If a car feels too stiff, it’s often because the suspension is tuned that way.
The Buick Verano is a regular, everyday kind of sedan. It’s meant to be comfortable for commuting and daily errands. The podcast mentions it because it’s the car being used for morning briefings and travel.
LIVE
Hello and welcome to the car podcast with Chris Harris and his friends as normal I have
Neil Clifford Managed Panning Chris Coop with me. I have one other friend as well Charlie Turner
who I used to work with at the BBC on Top Gear and now who is running a brilliant charity called
The Refuel. So Charlie's gonna stay with us for the duration we're gonna ask him about The Refuel
what it means what it aims to achieve and why he's sitting in Vegas having had a couple of beers
and pretending that he's sober. So that should be an amusing interview. It is episode 87 so I've
gone to my little library next to my toilet and I've got out an issue of car magazine from 1987.
This is what car magazines look like in 1987. They had Reno Alps, 9-Level Turbos and they had
loads of sprees on the cover. This this is a great issue it's a thin issue I remember in 87
buying it myself. It's a thin issue but it's got these cornering shots in it which I always love.
Look at those. Oh yeah look at those. I did love that car logo that logo on the front.
Neil would you look at that as a logo? Yeah it's a great logo. Everything was better in hand air
brushed chrome. Charlie Turner by the way was a magazine designer before he became world changer
so he knows all about it. Now look I'm going to also read out a factoid to you.
This factoid was sent to a few of us. I think the person that found it was so keen to share it
with the world they were desperate but I like it. Here we go. Did you know that the Peugeot 205
GTI 1.9 alloy wheels were either stamped Italy Speedline or France SMR and that the Italy
stamped alloys were one and a half kilos lighter per corner than the France stamped wheels.
Great. All of you people that own a 1.9 GTI are now going to have to run outside
look for the stamp mark and work out whether you are superleggera or a fatfucker.
I think that's why they used to get stolen a lot in period didn't they because the spare wheel was
like in that little cradle. Cage on the back. I think we've now just created a whole new
surge in people nicking the ones that are left to see if it's a speed line and eventually after
they've done four cars they'll have the 109 they always wanted. But that meant because occasionally
not that I'd have done this you bought a wheel that wasn't from a dealership let's say because you'd
had one knit. Yeah. If you bought one that wasn't the same as your other three would you be out of
balance? I think you would be out of balance by 1.5 kilograms apparently. Yeah. Explain why I had
a slightly wobbly 1.9 GTI for a bit. That was a different reason. Okay, right. Now this is Neil
Clifford wrote this because he's very much focused on positivity and only saying nice things. So he
started off into with things we did in cars or happy news. So I'm going to deliver at the end
a piece of absolute misery just to piss him off. So let's let's start off with the things we did in
cars. Charlie Turner has not been sentenced to gender by the way. He's coming in absolutely dark.
We'll ask him to chime in as of when things we did in cars or happy news. Neil Clifford.
Well, the context of this is I had a pain in the ass week with cars which may or may not ever be
discussed. But maybe we just say only buy people from cars from people that you trust because
otherwise it's a right pain in the ass. Be careful out there kids. And it's not just about do all the
buttons work. No. It gets a bit more complicated that which I didn't realize I've been very lucky.
But my I'm reassessing my strategy of asking one question.
So I thought I don't want to talk about that because that's all very miserable and I'm not
going to change. I'm not going to become a selfish, horrible, nasty, cynical, distrusting type just
because there are a few shysters in the world. I'm going to stick to my positivity and only talk
about good things. Yeah, exactly. Actually, a good thing happened to me today. I am in California.
I had a meeting very important meeting in Orange County at 11 o'clock. And last week,
when that was put in my diary, I thought, Oh, I know someone in Orange County,
Costa Mesa, California, because recently, I bought a Ford Galaxy 500. Nice. And when I was
reading through that Ford Galaxy 500, incredible, you know, when you get those amazing service history
files, which has got not not just all the invoices and you know, sometimes you get it and it's just
got a photocopy of a magazine, you know, it's all a bit flaky when you just get a photocopy of the
magazine that your car was featured or not even your car, just a car. This is not this. This
was one of those sandwich spread fillers of service history. This was a proper job. And the guy, his
name is Steve, had spent seven years restoring this car. Steve is now 75. He moved from Illinois
to Costa Mesa with his dad in 1963 when he was seven or eight years old. And his dad was obsessed
with motor racing and went to Riverside, went to Willow Springs and saw all these amazing early
60s races. Dan Gurney was from Costa Mesa, Orange County. And he was the local hero. So when you'd
go to Willow Springs or Riverside and watch these land 26 hours racing galaxies, racing
lightweight E types, Cobras, you know, We Can Heroes is the book, if you can afford it,
because it's a bloody stupid price, but it is an amazing book where it documents all of this
amazingness that went on post war in America from the 50s through to the late 60s. Steve
had watched Dan Gurney race a galaxy Ford 500 age seven and went to his house
and got a signed photograph of Dan with the galaxy. And he forever more decided that one day
when he retired, he was going to build this car, a replica of the Dan Gurney car.
He did that from 2014 through to about 2021. And actually,
it's amazing. And I was I bought I bought it amazingly cheap, actually, and Iconics
auction in Coventry. And I must thank Guy Broad of Broad Jaguar for going to pick it up for me.
And when I was reading the service history, I just picked up the phone to Steve and said,
you know what, I'm just going to ring this lovely man up in Costa Mesa. And amazingly,
he answered the phone. He didn't say hello, it's Steve. But he said, hello. And I said,
are you the man with the Ford Galaxy? He said, yes. I said, well, I've bloody bought it. It's
absolutely tremendous. And I'm in Costa Mesa in two weeks time. Can I come and meet you because
I want you to tell me the story about the car? That's cool. So this morning, at nine o'clock,
we met in Starbucks in Costa Mesa by South Coast Plaza Shopping Center. And we had a
just fabulous chat about cars, his life, my life, our addiction, all of the things that we talked
about on last week's pod, where it all came from, where it all started. It came from his father.
He was so excited moving from Illinois to California, because he knew that that was the
place and actually Costa Mesa is almost the place of Southern California for cars. There were
D types, E types, XK120s, the whole thing, gull wings hanging off every corner in the early 60s.
And it was probably one of the best things I've done for the last couple of months,
sitting there with a black coffee in Starbucks, talking to this lovely man, Steve. And what
we're going to be doing is that Costa Mesa Starbucks? Yeah, that's right. Outside. We
sat outside. And I've invited Steve to Goodwood Revival. And I think he's going to come,
and I'm going to buy him a ticket and look after him. And we're going to drive there in his and mine
Galaxy. That's so cool. So a couple of questions. Are you going to add some silencing to said Galaxy?
I've done that. now got a side exhaust with that amazing white
stuff. Yeah, you know, the heat, heat, you know, I don't know. Yeah, ceramic coating that was on
sort of 30s is Ferrari, you know, that sort of 60s Ferrari spaghetti exhausty thing. Or, you know,
you see them on this as a side exhaust in white on a white Galaxy. We'll post a picture. And I love,
I love the idea of just phoning the person up that that had built the car, you know, but was there
any sense that that he was regretful that the car had gone or that he spent so much time and energy
in it? No, because his pleasure and very good question, Mr. Harris, you should be a journalist.
He he his pleasure is actually building them. Yeah, his pleasure is the the engineering,
which is completely the opposite to me, which is why we make very good pair me and Steve,
because he then said, it's all very well and good, the Galaxy. But once I've done it,
and it was perfect. And that was all I wanted to do. Have you got 10 minutes? Yes, my meeting's not
till 11. I need to be back there at quarter two. Well, follow me. Get him get him a car. And we went
to his mum's how lovely to be 75. And your mum is still alive, by the way. That's really fucking
it's really fucking great, isn't it? He went to his mum's garage, who's 96. And he is now building
a. Look at that. A hot rod. Yeah. A hot rod in orange with orange leather. Look at that. That's
in his mum's garage. Steve is 76. And he's still in his mum's garage. That's brilliant as it is.
And at all sorts of things that I didn't really understand, which was an original
hemi from 1953, and four separate carburetors, and all this rare stuff that's really amazing.
But most importantly, it's orange with orange leather. Wow. He's building that. And he said,
this will be for sale next year when I finished it. And then I'm going to do another one.
We're all going to want to buy that. Yeah. And we love people like Steve. We do. And if he does
come to Goodwood with me, which I hope he does, because I'm going to organise it for him because
I think it'd be tremendous. We will even get him on the podcast and have a chat with him.
That's cool. That's what's happened to me. What a lovely story of joy. Let's move on to
Manish. I think that story's brought back some very big memories. My father was a
doctor in Southern California. And I spent a lot of my early twenties in South Coast Plaza
with a lot of friends. It was a little different back in the early nineties. But my God, you know,
it really does bring back big memories. I love Costa Mesa. It's such a great part of California.
Just all of all of that Orange County and I know all of that's wonderful.
All right. Good news. So the news that made me really rather happy this week is a bit of Formula
One news. And it's the big envelope is this announcement that possibly by 2030 or 31 we'll
be going back to screaming V8s, which just makes me incredibly happy. There's a little
sub-story to that, which is that if the engines are simplified, considerably, we might get
independent manufacturers back. And the whole idea of a Jard or a Cosworth or a Matra, you know,
somebody basically being able to build one of these things. It excites me enormously,
takes me back to, you know, 70s and 80s Formula One. As Bernie always said, you had the big
manufacturers like Renault and Ferrari and Alfa Romeo. And they had all the little British ones
with their Ford Cosworth engines, their Hewlin gearboxes, their fantastic aerodynamics and their
loose interpretations of the rules. And I thought that was just it was made for such
character for racing, such a great, great time. So that made me very happy.
Manny, she's still on that. So it's in touch, Manny. Your idea you just shared there is just
caught my imagination. Do you think there's going to be a space for a small group of people,
energetic and enthusiastic, loving the sport to build their own engine for the new Formula One?
That's what I think that that's the kind of beauty of evolution of time is that, you know,
things just sit in cycles, don't they? So we're going through a really hardcore
manufacturer cycle where things are so complicated that no small engineering firm could do that.
But actually, I could see in five years time, you had a relatively simple engine and a few
common parts. ECUs, for example, today are all built by McLaren. So you could buy yourself
that some little complicated bit. So why can't we do it? Well, I think we should give. You think
chock power? Let's get Steve a call. Let's go to build a same engine. I just think that would be
great. How hard could it be? No, no, we know some people we could get your pro drive bloke,
whatever his name is. David and we could get I don't know, Litchfield and Tuck Hill. We know
everyone. We could go to a small garage in your hometown and sponsor a really talented
mechanic and just call the engine by surname. So you just have when it come up on the sky,
I'll just say he's got a John VA or Brathwaite. Yeah, yeah. The other very positive bit of news
I took Lola for a gorgeous drive up to Chatsworth House up to Derbyshire. Should
it miss a beat? I have to say arriving at Chatsworth. I've never been. Have you guys been?
Yeah, yes. It's a Pride and Prejudice there, the Colin Firth version. And I have to say,
I was pretty blown away. It's beautiful. It's incredibly well organized.
Who did you go with? Sorry? Who did you go with? Just with some friends. It was great.
Oh, okay. Really, really great. And you know, the idea of just arriving, having a little wander
around in a in a black Ferrari, I felt very Mr. Darcy actually. I don't imagine he might have
had the taste to get a kind of understated Ferrari. And she had no problems on the way home either.
What about buildings at Chatsworth? Is that where one could squire a maiden?
The only small comment I would make is £150 doesn't buy you that much petrol these days.
No. 150 when I was looking at the gauge, sort of doing this, thinking how much is it going
to cost to actually fill her up? It's an expensive time to do long drives in a big ThirstEV12.
You can tell you can tell I'm a Philistine, and I've got this disease badly. Because whenever I
hear Chatsworth house, I sort of think of Tony Pond in a Rover SD1 or Ari Vassen in a 205 T16,
rather than culture and Jane Austen or Herve, you know, and Bronte or I don't know, I'm making it up
now. I just think we know you are. Yeah, always.
I'm baptising this, but you know, what was it about Mr. Darcy that you really fancied Lizzie?
His house. His house. It was the Paul Daniels line.
No, very good. Right, let's we know what to bring on guesting. Otherwise, what I could do is make him
sit through 40 minutes and I'm very happy about what we did this week and then go to him over to
you, Charles. Now, we don't expect you to tell us what you've done this week, Charles, necessarily.
Tell us where you are, but tell us a bit about the refuel and why actually it's the challenge
it was made for this podcast. Well, what I did first. Okay, so what we did before this and how
we met? Yeah, so I spent 18 years at Top Gear starting out as creative director. So I did the
colouring in, as Jeremy used to call it. And then for reasons beyond my understanding, I
ended up being the editor. I worked with Mikey Harvey initially, who was absolute genius and
kind of taught me everything apart from how to spell because I am a dyslexic. So I ended up as
the dyslexic editor of the largest car magazine on the planet, which was just a joy really. And then
obviously there was the change of management. You came in, we got to work together for a few
years. That's a diplomatic way of putting it, isn't it? And after putting Top Gear back on the rails,
to all intents and purposes, I moved to Ferrari. I got rung up and they said, would you like to come
and help them be in charge of our communication and content? Well, actually, no, that's not true.
What they said was, could you come and be our chief content officer? And then after I'd signed the
content, the contract, they went, oh, actually, you're going to do communication as well, which for
someone who doesn't speak Italian is 50 and doesn't really learn languages easily was a bit of a
challenge. But I did three and a half years of that. And that was great fun, amazing privilege.
But what I kind of realized throughout that time is that my life, our lives are all connected
through cars. They just are. They are the stories that we have, the conversations that we always
remember, the times that we remember, and they are that common language in cars. And I think
I sort of came out of Ferrari and wanted to do something because I've had the best luck in the
world. You know, if I got hit by a meteorite tomorrow, I've had the most amazing time. Thank
you very much. And all of that's been driven by cars. It's the people you meet. It's the journeys
you go on. So I came out and went, what do I want to do in the space? And I think what's becoming
clear is that cars are fundamental for all of us. They get us through the sort of difficult week.
They're the conversation point in a car park that allows you to have conversations with people that
you've never met before. And you guys are the basis of this podcast. Yeah. And you guys are the
absolutely exemplar of that. So I think they're a real force for good. I think there is a huge
energy, passion, and kind of shared collective good in cars. And so I thought, well, we should
harness that really. So I created the charity called the refuel with two of the founders of
MoVemba. So I've known the founder of MoVemba for 20 odd years. MoVemba started 21 years ago.
It's raised $1.9 billion for men's health. Over those 20 years, the MoVemba partner
is a fundamental part of driving that. So we created the refuel because we believe that energy,
that power, and that passion is something that should be harnessed. And we think that people
want to find a way of using their cars to raise money. They don't have to raise money every time
they go for a drive. But if they're going for a special drive, if they're going to an event,
there's a way that they could raise money for the charity. So the charity is called the refuel.
It's a registered charity in the UK. And we are raising money for mental health and heart health,
two of the biggest killers of people in our ecosystem. It's easy to join. You sign up. And
if you're hosting an event, if you're going for a drive, you can just put it into our platform
and get your mates to join and get people to fund you. And you set your fundraising target and off
you go. And it's basically harnessing the power and passion of what we all love, cars, and spending
time together in them. The reality is that all the best conversations I've had have been sat
shoulder to shoulder with people on this road. And also, the other thing that is really important
to point out is that cars are good. Time spent in the car with your mates is good for your heart
and it's good for your soul. You know, your social connections, our friends, everyone that is around
us that is in this car community are the people that help us be healthier. And also, they're the
people that go, hang on a minute, you're not doing so well. And that's one of the greatest things
that's been part of this journey so far. And I've stood in a lot of car parks in random parts of
the UK meeting people that are setting up these events and people driving in that care, that
connection, and that sort of checking in on your mates is really fundamental. And that's what it
is. So it's there and it's there for the car community to use as they want from the biggest
events on the planet to the guys that are just driving down to Le Mans and want to raise a bit
of money. It doesn't matter how much you raise, but everything we get into the charity will be
donated and targeted directly to funding things that are affecting us all. So we're starting off
with a piece of work. I appreciate this is turning into a monologue. So I'll stop in a minute. But
we're funding a piece of work around warning signs, because there are common warning signs that we're
probably not as well versed in as blokes to check whether someone's doing okay. And if a warning
sign flashed up on your dashboard, you wouldn't drive it for another 1000 miles, you'd actually
check going on. So we're working on that with the campaign against living miserably calm.
And it's just basically that's the kind of stuff we're going to be doing, celebrating,
getting in a car, going for a drive with your mates and giving you the car community the ability
to raise money and fund things that are going to make a massive difference in this space.
Brilliant. I think the other, I've been discussing this with Charlie, you're first off doing it.
First of all, that light bulb moment of the car is the best place to talk to a mate.
Most people that are into cars are much more likely to share a truth about their life that's
tricky in a motor car than they are anywhere else. And the other bit that Charlie pointed out to me
is it's so much easier because you're not looking at that person, your eyes forward through the
windscreen. It's so much easier to reveal a truth that's tricky. If you're not looking at someone's
bloody eyeballs as they're sort of deconstructing what you're saying.
All the best and worst conversations we have, certainly with my kids, the really tricky ones
have been sat shoulder to shoulder. And that's how you fix it because you're looking at something
in the foreground. Yeah. It's a great chance to hear a bit more about Charles' journey afterwards
and also we might share some stories where we've behaved poorly and things happen on top gear.
Now, who has not told us about their week? Chris Cooper has not told us about his week.
All I can say is brace yourself for a story that involves international vice, drug dealing,
and people trafficking. Go on. So I've got a little happy story and I've got something I did on
Saturday. On Saturday, I got to drive for a couple of hours on Saturday afternoon the
Aston Martin Valhalla. I mean, extraordinary. I was Chris Harris for a little bit of time.
The very lovely Mike Kenefic who runs Aston Martin Bristol, which last year was awarded the
best Aston Martin dealer, bestest in the world. Very kindly invited me to the Escapade facility
at Silverstone, which is lovely, to have a couple of hours on the road with the mind.
No, it was on the road. It's So went up and down the A43, M40 and a few other
things, a bit of cross country. It's extraordinary. I mean, it's amazing. I mean, it is, and I'm
funny if I watched your video, Chris, after I'd been in it when I got back on Saturday evening,
and which is a great video. You've got to watch it. I mean, it's a really, really interesting car.
Got very wide capability. It's quite comfy as a road car.
That's a surprise bit. Very, very, and the driving position, you know, I'm fussy about,
quite fussy about lots of things. I'm very fussy about driving positions. It's the only car I've
sat in where I thought, do you know what, I actually need to move the steering wheel a little bit away
from me. It's right there, which is really nice. I mean, you feel like Sebastian Loeb and, you know,
it's just wonderful. It's ballistically fast. The, and you said it in your video, it's got,
it's very clever the way it rotates and those differentials and the torque vectoring at the
front. And I got to ask all those nerdy questions to say, Oh, is that in canal and the exhaust pipes?
And, you know, is it rose jointed or is it bushed? And all this lovely nerdy stuff that we love. So
Phil Andrews, who when I was growing up, he was F 3000 racer and one of Britain's great sort of,
you know, talents. So to have him, I actually didn't recognize as him when I got in.
And he was really, really helpful, really lovely. So it was a lovely, lovely day.
But it gave me every time I get in the car that somebody else owns, or
it always ends up in a conversation about Chris Harris. Because I said, Oh,
were you at Navarra? And he said, Yeah, I was there. I said, You must have had Chris say, Oh,
yeah, he's great. Isn't he Chris? He's, he's such a God's sake, do I have to listen to half an hour
of this? I just want to drive the car. I know Chris, I've known him for 25 years. And he said,
and it reminded me, sorry, this is slightly sort of in joke. He said, he's really good. He never
dents anything, does he? He never, he always brings it back in one piece. He always brings it back in
one piece. And I said, to Phil, as he got to the driver said, Did you, did you buy any chance
when he was out there, laying 11s and sitting, did you ever just once uttered the words to him,
just bring it home? Because the words just bring it home, preface the only time that Mr. Harris
didn't just bring it home. I mean, it also says Chris is really good. I mean, I've, I've destroyed
every car I've ever driven on the track. Chris doesn't bloody quick. He's very adaptable. He can
drive anything really quickly. And bastard, he brings a home apart from once when we're early in
our time at the ring, where our team manager jewels, because you were doing the last inter for six
hour race, and uttered the immortal words on the radio is like a little second last lap. Yeah,
we're fixed on position. There's nothing to gain. Just bring it home.
And there was a Russian that had been playing city buggers with me, and he was ahead of us in
class. And I thought, Well, I'll just stick it on the inside. He'll get out of the way. And he
didn't. He turned in on me, did a steering arm. I tried to do half a lap with no steering. And
realized I was going to write the car off, parked it up. And when I came back to the
look, the look, the amount of turn that was on the top lips of those in the team,
if I said, lads, I walk back to him and they're gone. Yeah, fine.
So one bit of good news. Well, I thought it's happy news. Yesterday. So we're recording this on
Tuesday morning. This goes out on the Friday. This week in the UK on Lake Coniston. Oh, yes.
Bluebird rides again 59 and a bit years after Donald Campbell very sadly met his end. This is
endeavoring, pioneering, record breaking, extraordinary people. The wreck was discovered
actually not that long ago, early 2000s. And it's been painstakingly rebuilt. It's
literally turbine, the whole thing has been redone. And yesterday, it rode again. And I think later
this week, they're going to get up to like 150 miles an hour, which is still, and we did 300
when it was in its time, but 150 miles an hour. And that thing, which is now a rebuilt 70 year
old, it's amazing. So it's just us that thing that sort of it's been rebuilt, it's out there,
the crowds I saw on social media yesterday were amazing. So all those people involved who got
Bluebird back on its incredible bontons, I think is the word that made me happy.
Yeah, the work that's gone into that. I mean, and can you imagine doing 100 miles an hour on water?
No, it's a 90, I did 94 in one of those cigarette style Miami drug running boats.
And the captain afterwards said, with this level of drag, if you want to go four knots faster,
you have to add another 400 outboard to the back, just to go four knots faster.
That's why it had eight engines on the back. You were just sitting on a fuel tank.
But you could do that thing when you sit the front and just open your face up and you just
just play like Jeremy did in the area. You know the number of Formula One drivers who lost limbs
or lives driving fast boats, it's just a different level of danger of skill of bravery of all of
that stuff. If I had the money to make a documentary tomorrow that was of interest to me,
it would be about the Bristol Formula One boat Grand Prix of the 1970s and 80s that went in the
docks here. Every time I'm sick with a taxi driver, I always go, do you remember those? They go, no.
And I show them the YouTube kit, which I have saved on my phone. I always remember my mother
taking me to watch one of the races. And there was a crash, right, we had a friend that had a house
right on the waterfront. And there was a crash right in front of us, I shouldn't laugh, which clearly
hadn't gone well. And there was just a human being bobbing up and down in the water. My mother
just said, I think we'll go home now, dear. And we just turned around and got in the car and went
every year. It's like the Alamante tea. It was unbelievable. So I've done a few things this
week in cars. It's been a good week. I've driven Bentley's and Integrale's and I've met lots of
people. But on Sunday, which is not yesterday before, I went to the Moto GP for the first time
in Le Mans. And we had a really, really interesting day. I've watched the sport on and off. I haven't
watched it much recently, shamefully. I will be now, obviously. And as a spectacle, yeah, it's the
one, isn't it? The racing is extraordinary. You get to see what the riders are doing. They have
such a big impact on the overall performance package. It's different to Formula One. To see them all,
to see them arrive on the grid, to watch the bikes accelerate away and to watch all this racing.
We were with Tech Free, which is the satellite KTM team. They had a seventh place, which was quite
extraordinary, really, given their struggling performance at times. I just love the whole
thing. But within that, I was talking to Gunther Steiner, who I've never met before, who is exactly
as he expects him to be. A passionate, tall, distinctive, sort of almost arny accent and
quite sweary. And we were having a good old chat. And this guy with white hair came up to us and
said, if you see this, and he pulled out a crankshaft, a tiny crankshaft. And I thought,
like Gunther, I said, that's for a model car. And Gunther went, no, it's not. It's for a motorcycle.
And I went, what? And this guy explained, and this guy is called, I mean, could you imagine a bloke
that makes brilliant replica motorcycles more than this guy here? He is called Guy Coulomb.
And he was one of the owners of Tech Three before it was sold to Gunther and a consortium. But he
still hangs around at the team. He's like their figurehead and they love him. I got invited next
door to another garage where the vehicle that owns this crankshaft was parked. Now,
you have to see this. This is a replica of the RC166, which was a, wait for it, 250cc class Honda
motorcycle from 1960s. And it had six cylinders. So it was a 250 class. Only Honda could do this
shit. That's it there. But it's got six cylinders. When they started up, you apparently people have
to leave. It's so loud. And I stood there with Gunther Steiner. It has a 41 millimeter bore.
Like an inch and a half. Yeah. And it has six exhaust pipes. There's the powertrain package.
Wow. It's amazing. And it reps to 18,000 RPM with a tachometer that goes to 20. Honda
were playing a different game to everyone else in the 60s. Honda was, I think, much closer to
NASA than it was to any car company. Anyhow, I stood there with Gunther looking at this bike
for quite a long time. We just poured over it. And to do that with someone that loves mechanical
objects and can express themselves the way he does and smile and laugh was really lovely.
And so at the end of it, he said, you must get on it, get on it and put on a Honda hat.
Bearing in mind, we're in the KTM hospitality. So they made me get on it with a Honda hat.
And it was just one of those lovely moments. And he kept looking at everything to do with the engine
and saying, it's a toy. It's a model. It can't be real. It must be a model. The
crankshaft's about that long. It looks like a model car. So I thoroughly enjoyed doing that.
All I can do is employ you to get on the motor GP. It's not the easiest to find,
but find where it's broadcast in your country and watch it because there's overtaking from
that one to that and the last lap. They are doing things you can't comprehend. The bikes have got
300 horsepower and they are aliens. To hear couldn't to describe the difference between
a motor GP rider and a Formula One driver. He's got no lack of respect for F1 drivers. He says,
they're brilliant. He says, but these guys are something different. He says the commitment
and the way they focus themselves on going to win races is totally different for him. He can't
compare them. He says, when they're not racing, they don't test as such. When you're not racing,
they just go out on bikes. He says, particularly, he's an example of Spanish riders. He said,
they'll go most days, they'll have a panigale and go to a track day and just keep riding.
But if they can't do that, they use go-kart tracks and they're limited to 600 cc bikes.
They just go almost every day just to get saddle time. And they are totally focused and committed,
which is why when Marquez had a crash on Saturday during qualifying, we didn't get to see Mark
Wright sadly and he busted an ankle. He was in surgery that night and yesterday morning was
fixed again, ready to go. He's so broken, Marquez, apparently, that he didn't break his foot,
technically. The bolt that holds it on came out. It's one little thing about motor GP, the paddock
in MotoGP. If you've been to Formula One paddocks, they have a sort of whatever about them.
I've never been to anything as electric and as exciting, but at the same time,
it's totally down to earth and it's kind of cooperative as a MotoGP paddock. I remember
Perez back in the day, I think it was Honda that ran out of mozzarella for their hospitality suite.
All of these guys were just running out of Ducati loading up the Honda kitchen with mozzarella
because they knew the level of kind of cooperation. There's something about it. It's a real travelling
circus. It's a real family and they love and respect. I mean, I think that's the word, it's respect.
They really, really respect each other. They just know what they're doing is like this.
Yeah, Formula One bought it now. Liberty now owns it. There's already been some kick-offs at
Hereth. There were some arguments about direction of where things are going. It's a sleeping giant.
As a spectacle, it should be bigger than anything else because it's better to watch.
But the motorcycle community is different to the car community and I think the inherent
risk of motorcycle racing might put some people off. But the reality is it's a sleeping giant.
If they can harness it just half the right way, it's going to be extraordinary how it grows and
I'm sure there'll be some teething troubles and there'll be some friction. But it's too good to
maybe leave it just as it is. And maybe the great level it is, you can't really buy your way into
MotoGP. You could at maybe the very back, but you get found out. You need to be at that level
to just be on the grid. Yeah, fascinating. So what else am I doing in cars? Can't remember.
Let's move on. Okay. It's the great British Jaguar Day suit. This goes out on a Friday.
Eight days from this broadcast, we will be at Bister with a load of Jaguars. I think one of the
better assemblies of Jaguars in the UK over the last 40 years. I'm not going to make a bold
claim to that, but I think it'll be quite good. We're going to have an agenda overview by Mr Cooper
and then we're going to talk about what's the coolest ever road car Jaguar. Let's go first
to Mr Cooper. So everything's going on really. There's a main stage and we're going to do a
podcast talking about Jaguar stuff, our lives in Jaguars, Jaguars in our lives. Matt Becker,
who is the hero of Lotus and McLaren and Aston Martin, now JLR, is going to be on stage with us
talking about his thought about what is a Jaguar, future Jaguar, in particular the new
electric prototype that we've all driven. Talk about that. But through the day we'll have Henry
Peirman from Eagle E-Types and all of those amazing Jaguar and other world sports car cars
that he's got down in Kent. By the stage we'll start up the XJR15, which will just stop the
planet going around. It's so bloody, gloriously loud. Ian Callum, the designer will be there with
the CX-75. Lovely. That James Bond car from Spectre. Talking about that, what he thinks is
Harry Metcalfe is going to be joining us on stage, which is great. He'll bring his project
age as well. There's some Jaguar Dragster, which I think might be the loudest car in history. We're
going to start it up. David Brabham will be there with the XJR14. The car he's just driving is the
greatest racing car he's ever driven. That beautiful purple silk cut car which Ross Braun drove, which
would have qualified on the front row of the equivalent Grand Prix that year.
We've got some heritage people. Wayne Scott, who is a famous editor and journalist and he
subjects and runs one of the clubs. Dominic Elms, who runs Jaguar Classic. Matthew Davis,
who is the head of the Heritage Trust, will be there. Grant Williams, that exuberant, extravagant,
good wood Jaguar slidey person, will be on the stage as well. It's going to be amazing. It's
all through the day, something going on the stage. In the hangar, the main display, 70 odd of the
most extraordinary Jaguars, Jaguar themselves will bring their Type 00 prototype and they'll be
talking about what that is and why they've done it. You can go along and talk to them, ask them
questions. There'll be cake. It's just prizes. Talk about prizes, Neil. We have 30 prizes. We
have made our own rosettes and I would just give you a little snippet of the types of awards that
were going to be given because I wrote this on the plane as I was coming to America. The most
impressive rust patch. The perfect cup of tea prize. Moist Jaguar like cake, best cake prize.
It's just totally fucking cool award, rosette. How did it make it here award?
The cleanest engine bay and the dirtiest engine bay. Anyone that are for a certain age remembers
this. The gaffer interior award. How many metal coat hangers have you got in the back with parking
tickets? Most wonderful paint. Most beautiful Jaguar. It's only original once, rosette.
The lofty England award for the tallest driver of the day.
That was suggested by my friend Paul, I have to say. I think that's very good.
The Geneva Motor Show award for the longest unbroken journey to the Bista Jaguar day.
So these will be published. That's only a snippet of the rosettes that are going to be awarded.
Can you please add to the best puddle of fluid under the car right now?
Yeah. The Strangers add on accessory on the windscreen award. There's the friendly MOT Tester
award. I mean, if you are missing this day, you are very silly. It's going to be a very fun and
joyous and inclusive and amazing celebration of what is one of our most wonderful British brands.
Yeah, we're looking forward to it. And I am making that quiche.
Coley flower and Stilton and turmeric. Mango chutney and Stilton.
Absolutely. Absolutely no idea what's going on there. So the pertinent one to all of us is what's
your coolest ever road car Jaguar? I'm going to ask Charlie Turner now to put them on the spot.
In your time working with the brand, what do you think is the best? What's the Jaguar that made
you think? God, I tell you what, that is cool. Well, actually, I had a long-term test
via F type, which I had to give back because I lived in a small village in Essex and I used to
leave ridiculously early because Mikey used to change things quite last minute. So I used to
leave ridiculously early and you'd fire it up and we got messages on our answer phone going for
God's sake, can Charlie just not leave so early in that bloody car? So that wasn't a great thing.
And beyond that, what was the coolest one? I mean, you sprung this on me at the last minute.
I loved that car. I did. All's actually. XJR, that was a great car. Although it did
detonate going up the hill out of the village after it had just been serviced by Jaguar,
Mr. Tiger was not terribly mused because it did potentially lunge itself. Did it? Yeah. No,
I totally detonated it. It ran out of oil, but it didn't tell me it had run out of oil and then
it broke. Neil Clifford, what's your coolest Jaguar ever? Road car. Yeah. The question was,
even though I didn't write this, was if you could turn up in anything to this wonderful
day of celebration of Jaguar, what would you choose? And I would choose, for me, even though I
don't really fit in them, which is such a dilemma, an XK120 battered paint, but mechanically super
sorted by Guy Broad with a bit of period racing history, on spats, on steels with original interior,
and a bit scratchy shagged, but just, you know, in period racing add-ons, you know,
I never really understand these things, but a D-type head and, you know, a limited slip,
slip, blah, blah, blah. Well, it would scream for for entry when there was a racetrack there.
Exactly. All the stuff that you never know, John 30's farted in it in 1961 or whatever.
That would be, you know, Blackwood Tan original, I think, just, you know, Ralph Lauren owns one
Jaguar, and that's it. That's, he's no mug on the aesthetics. Manage what Jaguar you choose to turn
up in. Well, I'm turning up in something that's down close to this, but I think I'd go for the 96
XJS Cabriolet, the one with a four-litre straight six engine, that for me, navy blue, navy blue,
linen. That's what it would be. Just such a beautiful car. I'm having a bit of a,
you know, a bit of a change here in the way that I think about things. I'm so XK120 like Neil,
I've wanted one for ages and I've normally, when I want something, I want it just at the moment
prices do that and go up, but for once the XK120 is coming to meet me, they're coming down in price.
And at some point I'll pull the trigger, or at least I thought I would.
Like Manish especially, and I think the other two as well, when we went to drive some old Jaguars,
we drove an original Series 1 E-Type and it rather affected me because it was a very early car,
there's something very beautiful and a little bit teetery about its very narrow tracks and the
way the body just seems to hang over the sides of it, which when I was younger, I thought was
ungamely and now I think is really beautiful. And the way that you, from the rear, you can see the
driveshafts moving and I'm just, just stunning. And again, at the weekend I went down to Swallows
Jaguar who are, they're going to be with us on the 23rd as well, they're brilliant. They're a
specialist near Bristol that look after all things Jaguar and they really are a great bunch. They had
a cars and coffee thing on a Saturday morning. Those that know me now, I'm pretty anti-social,
but I wanted to go down and just support the boys and girls. And in the car park there was a Series
1 E-Type with the most fabulous story and the gentleman is going to send me a note on Instagram
and he might bring it along next Saturday. The car lived in Uganda and was owned by a member of our
diplomatic service who went on to be a senior civil servant and then had quite a lot to do
with the politics of that country. And I think ultimately got rid of Idi Amin and helped assert
some semblance of normality. But the story goes that the photograph that was taken to describe or
to show the work he'd done, he insisted on wearing his judicial gear for the UK. So there's a load
of tribes people and he was stood there in his judge outfit with a wig on and after that it was
decided he might need to go home and his E-Type was repatriated with him. Anyhow, this has still got
the AA Africa sticker on the back of it. Lightly restored, story is wonderful and it's been told
that he would often in Uganda he'd been Kampala and want to go to, he loved the Indian Ocean so he
would drive the car, just non-stop, straight to the ocean, dip his toes in the water and come back
again. And I'm captivated by stories like that and I think here we go, here's the AA East Africa
badge on the car. That's amazing. The car is utterly beautiful, there she is.
And that is, yeah. With a, with a, it's a dark sort of metallic grey with a, with a, again,
the Bordeaux Hive which we now know works so perfectly with that car. So I'm becoming a bit
obsessed with E-Types in a way I never have. And I think a series one, maybe, I know flat
floor is a phrase that's overused, but I just, I think the earlier they are, the more vulnerable
they look. They just, they look a little bit like shaking whippets, but they can go. When
they want to go, they can go. So I think it would be a series one E-Type. And I, and I hate to say
this, I quite like the hard top car. I think there's a, some really special angles
from the rear three quarter where you get that almost sort of crustacean like lid that sits on
top of the body from the rear. And I, and I, every time I see one now, I think, what did that look
like when they revealed it? It must have looked like an alien. If you, if you compare it to the
vehicles that are being sold at the time, it, it must have been akin to a spaceship more than a car.
Isn't that, isn't the first car coming? Yeah. The Geneva, the Geneva cars.
The W is going to be there. Yeah. And our heritage colleagues were talking about that
with that in front of me in the afternoon. And so William Lyons daily driver,
his Mark 10 will be there. It's got a beautiful sort of partition in the middle of the car.
So he could do William Lyons things in the back without disturbing his driver.
When Manage and I went to the Jaguar plastic workshop and storage and
you know, just toy shop at Wrighton the other week, we saw that and we thought,
so William Lyons, that's going to be there as well. So yeah, the XK120 is interesting,
isn't it? Because the car that Penndyne provided when we did the filming at Bisto,
which has been all over our social media the last few weeks, I thought, well, I won't fit in that
because Neil Lyons were both about six foot 26 foot three. I thought, I simply won't fit in
it. And I did. I think it's got a slightly different pedal box, which sort of helps. But
I just fitted that car like a glove. I think that's, that's just, the one I would, there's so many
aren't there, but the one I'm actually going to turn up in. And again, I have to thank Dominique
Elms and Paul Reigns at Jaguar Classic for facilitating this for Manage and me.
I'm going to be arriving in her late majesties, Daimler Super V8.
Oh, that is, that is her majesty. He's obviously her because her hatch is only just above the rim
of the steering wheel, but she's driving herself a bit like the Mulsanne we saw in
crew the other day when Neil Lyons would be well enough behaved in the front with the bull horns
and the sirens. This car has got a replacement for the sort of the top of the glove box,
which a little sort of flat bit with a little edge around it where her handbag went.
So our good friends at Jaguar Classic have said, which handbag are you going to bring
to put on that when you go in there? So I'm going to have to give that some thought.
We will both be turning up in Daimler Super V8 then, which I like. Although yours will be the
later 350 aluminium bonnet car. Now, here we go. We've been going an hour and we've covered two
subjects. Sorry about this, CT. I apologize. We do have a touch of the Wurbal Diarrhears.
Name just one. Here we go. The most overrated car that for some reason the world hates to
criticize. This is a very, very good subject. So you can you can ruminate on that Charlie. The
one car that people don't criticize, but we really should because maybe it's overrated.
You think about that while Manish answers it. I think deep and hard and long. And the answer
for me was the McLaren MP412C. Maybe controversial, but I think I was very much around when that car
was launched. And I remember the excitement and I remember meeting someone who used to collect
McLaren Formula One cars at the time and he'd had a big meeting with McLaren and about acquiring
a particular Formula One car. And you know, the MP412C and then its progeny were unveiled and he
sort of was a little bit skeptical. He said, well, you're only making one car and you're going to
basically evolve this one car. It doesn't feel like a fleet of cars. But I remember
meeting someone who bought a very early one and he liked the ride and he liked all of the, oh,
yes, the whole thing is just one piece of carbon fiber and but the aesthetics, that was the first
thing. It's just something slightly sterile about the aesthetics. They kind of they kind of still
hold up because when the women's launch 2011. Yeah. So it's 15 year old car now. The aesthetics
kind of hold up. They're a little bit bland. I remember had awful early problems. I've got a
little, I jotted a little note down. So Ron Dennis sent a personal letter to every single owner who
had a problem. And what do you do? The cars UK got a little quote. So the problem seemed mainly
to be software related with issues, including warning lights flashing, flashing on and battery
drainage issues, which seemed to be because the MP412 sees electronics didn't turn off when the car
was altered. Well, I know what that's like. But it seemed McLaren were working on the issues with
the same sort of zeal we've come to recognize from their F1 program. No doubt spurred on by the wrath
of Ron Dennis. And now Ron has firmly, firmly put his fluffy bunny hat on and written to all MP412C
owners to explain the situation, make an apology and bung them a freebie, a coffee table book.
So the coffee table book was McLaren the wins. Now you can just imagine you bought this car for,
I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of pounds. It's brand new. It's the battery's discharging.
It's leaking various fluids. You're not very happy. You're having to bring it back to the dealership,
but you can have the coffee table book McLaren the wins.
I think I tell you what, I think that's harsh. I think the car was actually
ambitious and I think was better than expected. But I get the story. also think
they look really fresh now. I think the 12 C is a good looking car. But it's all subjective.
Let's move to Neil Clifford, who tries to be positive about all cars. Getting Neil to say
that car's shit is really difficult. And I expect you to do it now. Get on with it.
Well, this was my little suggestion. And then I've spent all day absolutely torturing myself
about what I was actually going to say. Because the only car really ever
publicly criticised is the Ineos Grenadier, because maybe that's my answer. I was so,
but bless the Ineos Grenadier. It's got so much criticism. I almost feel bad for it now,
even though someone forgot to put a dashboard in and you need one leg and all of that shit.
I feel sorry for it because it's ugly at the front, but the side profile's nice.
And it's the opposite of the MP4 12 C, really, which actually got a nice front and a nice side
and a shit back. Maybe they should have got together and had a child. So that's the only
thing I've only ever put. And I really, you know, I struggle with Audi. I really fucking struggle
with Audi. But then I was reading Evo on the plane and Richard Meadon's lovely little story about
V8 normally aspirated cars of the mid 2000s. And it got me all excited about that RS4.
I'm like, actually, maybe that's because I haven't had one and I had the RS6 and they're really
shit because they're made of wood. But maybe the RS4 isn't. Maybe it's really good. You guys
all talk about that car, don't you? So maybe I'm wrong about it.
Our lovely mate, James Walker's got a leggy one that we bought years ago.
Yeah, we'll see more Pope have got a yellow one. Can't sell it. So they'll be you can bid them in
the arse and buy that. Technical term is in here. Yeah, no, it is. You know, the one thing that I'm
I'm just maybe I'm not criticizing. Maybe I just want to I want them to try a little bit better
is Lamborghini. I really don't like the names. What are these new names for a dyslexic? It's
really tricky that revolt on the the the turmeric or whatever it's called. And and I don't I don't
like the look of them. I don't like the look of them. And maybe maybe the real answer. I know I
should have only said one and it was my idea. Maybe the real answer is Ferrari, of course,
because they've also lost their ability to draw, haven't they? But the the those the Lamborghinis,
I struggle a bit. And maybe that's me just getting old.
So I've criticized about six cars there for you, Mr Harris. Is that okay?
No, you haven't. No, you haven't really. Yeah, when it comes to
taking the old knife to them, you've done hardly anything. Okay, all right. All right.
That Mercedes SQ fucking thing that there's supposed to be an electric S class is an utter turd.
There you go. And finally we get there. Because you try and sit in the back of that without having
to have a noob spine. Oh, no. It's shit. The car designed to sit in the back of that you can't
sit in the back of the chocolate fire guard. Right. This is harsh and rich coming from me,
but I'm not sure we've answered the question here. The question was,
the most overrated car that for some reason the world hates to criticize.
Yeah, I answered that really well.
Well, I don't think the world does hate to criticize that McLaren.
Children, you're all talking over each other and it's become a stoop and a mess. Yeah,
Cooper talk. If this was a music podcast, this would be I don't like the Beatles.
Yeah, which I'll tell you why I refer that because somehow by random over the weekend,
I saw a little clip, an interview involving Zoe Ball, who is a very well known popular
radio personality here in the UK. And a lady called Joe Wiley, who in the UK is very well
known. She is the epitome of cool and chic knowledge of popular music. She's just, you know,
she's music, popular music royalty. And the two of them were talking. And Joe Wiley said,
out of nowhere, this is an unpopular opinion, but I don't like 60s music. Beatles not for me.
And it was, that's what I think this question is about. And under that heading,
my answer is the VW Beetle. I just don't like it. I know everybody does. It's lovable.
It's everywhere. It was Herbie. We've talked about it on here. But for me,
no, it's the VW Beetle. Yeah. Yeah, it's the answer that you've answered the question correctly.
I said, I said this to Charlie Turner. I said this to Charlie Turner four minutes ago.
Yes. And what's that? And now say, do you have an answer to this, Charles? But you're a bit like
Neil Clifford. You're glass half full. You're a lovely positive channel. When you're the editor,
you have to be a diplomat to a certain extent, which is what I spent a career doing. So I'm not
answering the question because you're better at it than me. Okay, good lad. Right. So for me,
Cooper's, he's, he's understood and answered the question. I've got one that I regularly tell people.
And it's the, it's the defender. I just don't, that's yours. I just don't, I don't get it. And
they went, oh, look, it's a defender. And I went, and so what? It's like saying, oh, look,
they're syphilis. I just don't get it at all. It's like, it's just something that gets in,
they get in the way. They're not very fast. People spend stupid amounts of money on them. I don't
think they're very safe. I think they're utterly uncomfortable to be in. I just don't get it. But
I'm willing to admit, I just don't get it. Doesn't mean that everyone else can't get it. There have
been cars. I'm trying to think of a couple where you're a bit late to it. And someone says, here
you go, have a go in the, what have you, and you know that all your colleagues have driven it and
they all think it's great. And you sort of, you do go really, I think there were a couple of
impressors after the event where I just, I think they were on the front of car magazines,
go, it's the new, whatever, I talked to myself, this doesn't feel faster than the last one. In
it's got a bit, a bit lazier and everything I feel, all the, all the damping and bushing of
everything from the gearbox suspension feels like it's got bigger bits of rubber in it.
I remember feeling that I remember the Eve, when the Evo seven and eight came along,
they were cars that I felt were worse than their predecessors. Maybe the ultimate one for me,
which I think is a bit of an epiphany if you're a car tester is the first time you feel you have
the conviction to say, I don't think this is very good. And it's, as Neil said, it's a brand that
you don't normally tangle with. And normally that means it's from Italy, you don't tangle with the
Italians, bearing in mind, in the early 2000s, Italian car magazines had to submit their copy
for their road tests to the factory before they were allowed to print it. So you would,
they would submit their copy, Ferrari would go, yes, we agree with this road test,
and then it would be published. I mean, what a brilliant way to do business.
You know, you've arrived when you can do that, when you can vet your own reviews.
But in 2000, I don't know, two, was it, two or three, Ferrari announced a replacement for the
550 called the 575 Marinello. No, five, just called the 575, wasn't it?
575, yeah. Yeah. And I remember driving one, and I'd driven a couple of 550s, but I never
had to write about them. And I've given the chance to write this piece. And they went down a road
in a 575, and in Wales, and within a minute, it nearly tore its sump off. And I gouged all the
underside of the front of the car down, and I'd driven there in a M3, which had dealt with the
road beautifully. This Ferrari decided to try and rip its undergusset off at every particular
moment. The steering wasn't very good. It was lazy and wobbly. And I thought, God, this is rubbish.
But it's also a Ferrari that sounds magnificent, and it looks amazing. And I'd really quite like
it for the weekend. So maybe I should say it's good. But I remember thinking, it's not, it's
actually, this is shit. This is not, this is, if someone bought this with their own money,
they'd be mortified. So I wrote as much. And I got, they weren't very happy, as you can imagine.
But that was another one where I think if I parked it up in Clifton Village and stood next to it,
in those days, people would come and talk to you over the car. If I'd said, it looks good,
doesn't it? But it drives like a box of turds. No one would believe you. No one would believe you.
Correct. Because it looks so magnificent. I've answered a different question there. But
for me, my beetle is the defender, I'm afraid.
I think you answered it. Is a Ferrari or the Italians, they're the most
pressurizing of a PR functions. Because in my, even my only tiny little experience,
when we're at Jaguar, and they took the cover off and say, what do you think? I'm like,
fucking hell, this is a new experience. Actually, I've got, I've got to have an opinion here.
They've been doing this for years. And so normally, the weaker offering they've got,
the more they can't make us go for the human aspect. So what you'll do is,
and sometimes it reaches an art form, where if they think you're going to criticize
the chassis, for example, and I've had this before, that they'll know that they've got a car
that's a bit too stiff for a UK road. And someone like me turns up in the, you know, 20 years ago,
and they're thinking, well, he's going to say, or him and the other one for me, but we're going to
say this thing's a bit stiff. So they'll roll out the bloke that did the suspension or someone
for the suspension. And they'll talk about their family and they'll talk, you know,
they'll be like, I'll crash it. They'll be like, well, you know, we didn't have a very big turkey
last Christmas. So when you're writing it, you've got the vision of this bloke, you think,
I want to get him fired. Do I say this is shit? And it works up to it. It's very clever. They've
been doing it a long, long time. But yes, to the foresee, posted some pictures of it,
came down the hill, said it was good. And, you know, they're lovely things, but it wasn't as good
as possibly we'd hoped for. They were stood as we got to bloke outside in a line, every single
department, every single element that had worked on that car, and we had a three and a half hour
debrief. That was pressure. Yeah, still wrote the story. So I think, I think actually, but Ferrari,
it's there's so much mystique and Charlie knows when you've worked there, that quite rightly,
it's the best car brand in the world as a name and as a business. It's phenomenal. I know it's
got a few difficulties at the moment, but it's still Ferrari. I defy you to be invited there.
You land, you get you get taken from Bologna to the factory in some chaotic manner, which just
adds to the appeal of it all. You get there and you get put up in a hotel that it must be less
than 30 euros a night. And you and it, but the whole thing just works and you get hustled into
Verano in the morning and you've got briefings and it's just brilliant. And then you get taken to
Montana or Cavalino and there's loads of people there. There's loads of people stood around
visiting in red outfits and you drive the car a bit and then they say how they say we want to
know what you think of it in your life. I feel so honored. You know, when they say we want to
know what you think of it, I challenge you to go, I think this is a bit of shit. You're probably
not going to do that. And then the best of all was when you'd have, I mean, Luca was one for this,
but who's his mate who followed him? It was too early in the morning. Feliza was the worst.
I can remember, but so what would happen is you'd be in Verano doing something
and an Alfa Romeo with a dent on every corner where it would literally screech up and stop
and you think what's that? Two blokes with suits would get on and go, Mr. Feliza would like to see
over in the office, but I'm not along with the car. Get in the car, right? Okay. So you get in
the car, drive back to the, it's about a four-minute drive at those speeds. You get straight through
the factory gate, bloke waves it, stop, get out, fast forward, up the stairs, get into the office
and he'll say, so I want to talk to you about what you wrote about the California and you'll go,
you know, I didn't think it was that good, but you're wrong. But I'm not really. It's an opinion.
You can't be right or wrong. No, no, no, this is wrong. This is what you are wrong. And you'll
just get a talking to and I won't go into it too far, but I once had this, Luca did that to me once
and I went to sit down and it was quite clear that he had not invited me to sit down.
And I just think the whole thing was brilliant theatre. It's all theatre. And I tell you what,
if you want to judge it, if you're, if I'm telling anybody, journalists how to deal with it and how
to use this to understand the environment you're in, this is about ultimate confidence. So the more
people prevarigate or car companies obfuscate or put people in front of you, actually the less
confident they are. The ultimate confidence is what Porsche did when we did the Holy Trinity.
So everyone else turned up with, you know, a bank of teams and laptops and everything else.
Porsche sent a 918 in a covered truck, which was towed. It wasn't even a proper truck. It was a,
it was a car that towed it in a trailer coverage, a race shuttle. They dropped it off with a wheel
brace, a wheel brace, a tire pressure gauge and a work experience kit and left it there for a week.
That was it. There was no one else there, just an empty garage, a bloke, a wheel brace.
I saw him in the factory the day and he went, do you remember me? I was there for that.
If you talk about a flex of confidence, that was just, here we go.
Yeah, it's good.
Anyhow, it's all good fun. Moving on. We're going to, we're going to do a two car garage now because
we've gone on too long. It's quite late in California where these two are. So let's go
straight to a two car garage, which I have to say, I found quite complicated. So I'm going to go
first to who, this was submitted, wasn't it by someone? It was. Chris Cooper, could you start,
please? So should we read it out? Yeah, go on. You read it. Let me just find it and I've got it here.
I'll read it. It wasn't good for a dyslexic this one. It's Nürburgring 24 hour
weekend. It is next weekend. And you and your mates are feeling inspired and want to give and go
a bit of endurance racing. The four of you have decided to enter as a team, taking turns
racing across 12 hours with each getting a total of three hours of driving. There's no budget limit
this weekend this week, but each of you has to fill your two car garage with a car to convert
to a race car that will keep you all competitive as a team and also a tow rig that could bring all
four of you and the car to a track six hours away with smiles on your faces when you arrive at the
track. There we go. So car and classic was a font of wonderful ideas for how to do this.
But actually, you just got to go large. Just got to go large. So I went on to car and classic
last night, very early hours this morning, and just put Porsche race car into the search
on car and classic. And it was just mega. And the one I couldn't walk past was a 1997
Porsche GT3 RSR 997 RSR. You can buy an RSR on car and classic. You can buy an RSR on car and
classic and a whole bunch of other really, really mega. So you don't have to convert it. This is
done. So this is 2007. So when we first did the Nürburgring 24 hour race on our little
997 Cup car, I did know you did that. Yeah, we should talk about it. I know what I mentioned
it before. Yeah. At the front of the grid was that bad boy. It was just amazing. So
no budget. So you could do that. And then I thought you got to continue going large. So on
car and classic, I then put in race transporter in the search bar. And it came up with an ex
Lamborghini F1 race transporter from the early 1990s, which is the most mega looking thing.
But do you think that would pass the sniffer dog test in terms of substances that particular
truck? Not now. No, it wouldn't. But I went further. So I thought, because
the part of the question was, what could you have fun with your mates towing your car, taking your car
to a race meeting? So into the car and classic search screen, I sort of wanted to put
self preservation society. That didn't quite work. But what I did find was the next best thing,
which is the Plaxton Panorama race transporter with seats at the front and space for our RSR at
the back. And gold. No, actually, in the Italian job, I think it was a Bedford. Bedford Harrington,
I think someone put us right on that, not a Plaxton Panorama. But I remember growing up
when we were on school trips. And you because we're nerdy, you'd notice the names in Plaxton.
What's a Plaxton? We'd all noticed that. So car and classic this week, I think was just
unbelievable. The stuff I found from an RSR to a Lamborghini F1 transporter, and the closest I
could get to the self preservation society, that is my two car garras this week. Good. I'm going to
do one now. So the thing about this race is it's become very, very competitive. And like almost
was become more professional. And there's huge pressure at the front. But when we first started
doing it, it was the last great sort of a privateer race with a sense of humor. So the first year I
did it was in 2000. And I'd been out there in 99 to watch it as well. And you had there was a
there were several VW combi vans. There was an original mini. There was the bloat that used to
arrive in his five. He had a 500 s 500 s lc. Yes, hard top automatic used to turn up do the race
and drive home again. He was well then he did the Silverstone 24 hours one year. So there were a lot
of characters that regularly did these things. They've also been squeezed out now because you can't
be idiotic. But that the majesty of silliness was reinvented again this year by BMW. You might
see BMW has entered of M3 touring this year and we'll put a photo of it up now.
This looks with a wing on the back of it that you wouldn't bloody believe. So for me, this is an
opportunity to go back to those years where you go to the invitation class or the alien class and
no one cares about whether you're going to win or not. You're just adding value with shapes and
stuff that you shouldn't be racing in. And of course, then you think about the great
Barry Sheen and you think about Steve Parish and what they did famously the Nurburgring
when they borrowed a press Rolls Royce and did laps of the Nurburgring and absolutely destroyed
the bunny thing. Parish tells the story of joy. So for me, I'm buying a phantom. I'm going to turn
it into a race car. That is about three tons will fit great triple seven and we will we'll
come somewhere because we'll just roll around and we'll come somewhere. Now,
if you're going to race a Rolls Royce, you need to tow it with a Bentley. And we're going to
learn that's a Bentayga. I learned again way too late was they put the Cayenne V8 diesel
in the Bentayga for a year. That must be one of the great used cars. So you've got a million
foot pounds of torque in a car in a Bentley interior. That's everything, isn't it? What a
great used bike. So I'm towing I'm towing a phantom with a Bentayga because we're going full British.
Okay, Charlie, have you had a chance to look at this or would you rather avoid it with my 30
second briefing? Yes, I have. Go on then. So I'm having a bit of a forward week. I used to drive cars,
which was a lot of fun. But now the biggest excitement for me is what higher car do I get
from the airport? So I'm currently schlepping around in a Mustang. And in America, it's perfect.
It is just the best car out here. So I'm having a bit of a forward week. I'm going to race a Ford GT
because it's on car and classic. And let's be honest, that's just awesome, isn't it? Get one of
those. Yeah, for to breathe on it a bit. But you want to be brand coherent. So and I'm having a bit
of an American week. So it's got to be Hennessy Velociraptor. That's a tow truck. You can have
fun. You your mates refueling the whole way down, telling stories and being fully bogan.
That's how it was. What it's all about. A double bit of Henry, double Henry to go.
Let's go to Manish. A little bit like Mr Cooper. I found something that needs nothing doing to it.
I actually found a group three GT Datamaso Pantera.
I look at that with the gold wheels. This is actually been completely rebuilt to 1971 car
costs double the next Pantera on car and classics been fully restored. It's in France.
It's got the 351 Cleveland engine and 5.8 liters 350 horsepower 250,000 euros. I think you'd have
a great time and proving proving the great minds think alike. Mr Harris, I thought about
what would be the best thing that you could tow this with rather than a transporter.
I actually found this bentega. Have a look at this bad boy. So this is the extended wheelbase
bentega. It's in black. It's got linen interior. It's the Atelier. I just think you'd sit in the
back of that with your Cuban cigars. Would you just roll up with your massive transporter.
Imagine that Pantera on the back of a trailer pulled by an Atelier Bentley.
So you just wouldn't even need a tent. It would be the best boys weekend, I think,
pretty much. Can I just correct you? It's Ben Tiaga.
The Lamborghini Turmeric. Okay, so yeah, back of the grid, big smile on my face.
No budget. Obviously, the coolest car on car and classics. It's amazing how many
cool bloody 911s they've got. 993 GT2, right hand drive, C16. You know, why would you ever sell one
of those? That was black. Right. Look at me. Finally, press stop on this last podcast. They
can all fuck off. It's only 1.325 million. Yeah. I think the ex Chris Harris cars worth more than
that, isn't it? Without doubt. So actually, I've been sensible. My second car. I know you guys
have all been a bit silly and I've been I've stuck to the rules. The car I really fancy as a
towed car is a real car. It's that and we all know that I love KNs. This is a this is a KN GT.
Oh, yeah. And I've you know what? I've got a mate, Sam, who's got one of these. It is actually
quite a fantastic car. He got the really fast one because the fast ones. That's it. That's it.
Yeah. That's it. That is the GT. It's 150 grand. It's left. Actually, I selected two. This is the
one I want. It's the left hand drive. So I'm going to spa. So I want a left hand drive one.
So I think it's in San Marino, which is quite a sexy place to buy a car. I wonder if you get a
San Marino number plate, which would be even cooler, wouldn't it? You look like a proper Italian
drug dealer. But I think that I think they're really good. It's the same in the Bentayga that
I've not seen in two months. Does the Bentayga still exist, by the way, guys? Yes. Who's got the
Bentayga? Who's got the Bentayga? Manish has converted it. He's made it quicker than taking
the wing mirrors off. Well, I bet the thing stinks of bloody turmeric because he's been making all
these bloody tissues. Right. Let's do a piece. Charlie, we choose a piece of music at the end of
this elongated podcast. So you have a little thing. So I'll come to you last. Let's go to Chris Cooper
first. In my little search through 80s stuff, I got on Spotify, 80s 12 inches, which children was
the size of a record you put on a gramophone player when we were all little. I thought you found that
on the dark web. Yeah, no, it's not anymore. Slave to the Rhythm, 12 inch by Grace. Yeah, it's good.
Yeah, that's fine. That's got some bass that has. Manish. I'm going pop. I'm going 80s as well.
And I'm going to go heck up 100 favorite shirts, bracket, boy meets girl with that great sax and
a great song. I'm proud of you, Manish. Thank you very much. I'm sticking with the 80s.
You know, when you know your kids are fine, when you're driving along with your older son,
and I said, you do the music and you think, oh God, what's it going to be? You know, you're a little
bit cynical about your kids, aren't you? And then Alexander O'Neill, if you were here tonight, and I
thought, you know what, I remember walking into L.E.J.'s in Portsmouth in 87. And there was nothing
that was going to be better in my life than that moment listening to that song. It's everything for
me about the 80s. Yeah, yeah, fantastic. We're a bit looser afterwards, maybe. So Charlie Turner,
piece of music. Anything from Springsteen, while you're in America, has to be something huge.
So we'll go with Mikey's favorite, as he taught me everything, Thunder Road.
It's the cheesiest key sage, but you just got to have it. That's great. Yeah, listening to that in
Mustang in America, you want to move there immediately. I'm going to go for something that I
shazammed, I think it was on a TV show, Ode to Dance Floor by Nicky and the Dove.
Honestly, it's a brilliant piece of dance music. I've loved it. So I've listened to it in the car
the whole time. That was our podcast this week with guest Charlie Turner of The Refuel. Look
up The Refuel, follow it on Instagram. If you're doing anything collectively with your carmates,
over the next, well, forever from now on, please think about raising some money through The Refuel.
Get in contact. They'll help you out. They're going to be at some events. You're going to see it more
and more, but really, we've realized over time, this podcast does exist to help people through
difficult times. We never did it for that reason. I do it purely because I enjoy doing it. I don't
care whether you listen to it or not, but it turns out they do. So anyhow, Neil Clifford,
Manish Pandit, Chris Cooper and our guest this week, Charlie Turner. Goodbye.
About this episode
The hosts kick off with a mix of car trivia and real-world ownership stories, from Peugeot wheel-stamp details to a Ford Galaxy’s service-history paperwork and a Dan Gurney replica. The conversation then swings into motorsport and tech speculation, before landing on “The Great British Jaguar Day.” They preview Jaguar stage and hangar highlights like the XJR15, CX-75, and Type 00 prototype, then debate what Jaguar they’d personally bring—plus a few humorous award categories and judging quirks.
