The Porsche 911 Carrera S (991.2) is a sports car made from 2016 to 2019. It has a bigger 3.8-liter engine that’s not turbocharged, making it more powerful and fun to drive before Porsche started using turbo engines.
A naturally aspirated flat-six engine is a type of car engine with six cylinders lying flat. It doesn’t use extra devices like turbos to push air in, so it gives power in a smooth and natural way.
The 991.2 Carrera S was the last Porsche 911 made with an engine that doesn’t use a turbo. After 2017, Porsche started using turbo engines which help the car go faster and use fuel better.
The Porsche 997 GT3 is a sporty version of the 997 Porsche 911 made for racing and fast driving, with a powerful engine that doesn't use turbochargers.
Electric steering uses an electric motor to help you turn the steering wheel instead of the old hydraulic system. It can save fuel and make steering easier at low speeds.
PDK is a special type of transmission made by Porsche that changes gears really fast and smoothly. It helps the car drive better and makes shifting easier.
The Porsche Cayman is a small sports car made by Porsche. It is designed to be fast and handle well, with the engine placed in the middle of the car for good balance. People like to make changes to it to improve its performance.
A turbocharger helps the engine make more power by pushing extra air inside. Bigger turbos can make the car faster but might take a little longer to start working.
The Porsche 911 Carrera is a popular sports car made by Porsche. The 991.2 is a newer version made between 2016 and 2019 with turbocharged engines and updated technology.
PASM is a system in Porsche cars that changes how soft or firm the suspension feels depending on the road and how you drive, making the ride smoother or sportier.
The Porsche Cayenne is a larger car made by Porsche that can carry more people and stuff. It is like a mix between a fast car and a family car. It is comfortable and can drive well on different roads.
The Ford Explorer is a big car made by Ford that can carry many people and things. It is used by families and for everyday driving. Older models like the one from 1992 are simpler but might need more care.
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car made by Porsche. It has a unique design with the engine placed at the back. It is built to be very fast and fun to drive.
The Cayman is a sports car made by Porsche. It is smaller and less expensive than some other Porsche cars but still very fast and fun to drive. People sometimes compare it to other Porsche models when deciding what to buy.
The Porsche Boxster is a small sports car made by Porsche that has a roof you can open or close. It is designed to be fun to drive and easy to handle. It is similar to another Porsche car called the Cayman but with a roof you can take down.
LIVE
We are here to bring you everything and anything surrounding Porsche. I'm Mike,
I'm Aaron, and this is P-Car Talk. Welcome to part two. We're continuing on
the daily journey of what should you daily for under 100 grand sports car
related within Porsche. So you're in the kind of like modern era so you can get
somewhat modern tech, heated ventilated seats, something reliable that you can
maybe road trip if you need to, but get you to the office, get you to the gym,
run you to the store, and then occasional, hey, I'm going to visit my friend,
it happens to live by some cool roads, and you do that maybe once or twice a year,
that's what this car is for, that's where we're at. So if you haven't heard part one,
go back to next week and listen to part one because if you're picking it up at part two,
you're going to miss a bunch of cool cars we already talked about. Yeah, you already miss some
cool cars we already talked about. So when we reference back and forth, it'll make no sense to
you. Maybe like live life chaotically. Yeah, you're just like, hey, I'm just going to do things
backwards. How's that? Alright, so we left off at the 991.1 3.4 liter base model. So we're
moving forward 911, 991.2, not 2.1, excuse me, Carrera S. So that goes from the 3.4 liter to
3.8 liter. Still NA flat six. Now you're getting a horsepower bump at 400 horsepower. So now we're
talking a little bit more business. And then torque on that 325 price range on these start around
60 for high milers. And then for really lower miles, you're looking at 85 grand for these. And
you know, these are optioned all over the place, you can get poverty spec that doesn't even have
heated seats in them to ventilated and heated seats, sports seats, sports chrono. I feel this is a,
if you have to have an NA car, this is a really good place to be at in my personal opinion, as far
as the 911 world goes. This is the if you don't remember, these are the variants that right
before they went to dot two and went to three liter turbocharged. These are the last of the
NA's. And again, these started in 2012, with the end of their run was 16. So the 12 to 16 was their
run. And then the three liter turbo comes in and 17. So that's how this kind of worked out.
I really, really like these cars. They're holding value surprisingly well. I mean, and probably
because of what I mentioned already, they're the 3.8 liter NA 400 horsepower, you got to rev them
out to get all that power out of them. And the car isn't super heavy, like this car weighs like
31 80. So it's still on the light territory. Yeah, still because and the way that a lot of people
may not know, and the 991 variant, when they switch from the 997, they went to an aluminum
chassis in the 991. So they were able to shave a lot of weight because they went to the aluminum
chassis with that because they are a bigger car visually and on pep on paper, but they are just
as light. And that's how they that's how they got away with that trick. That's their magic trick on
that car is they have an aluminum chassis. How do you feel about the 991 dot one, Crera S? Do you
feel like that's a that's a sweet spot? Do you feel like that's that's kind of strong money for
that? What are your thoughts on that? I think I like three having a 3.8 liter versus 3.4. They
have the choice. So out of the two and a is I think the S would probably my preference. And
normally with the S is you get some cool different things more than normally the tech might be
better. I mean, just the options are normally checked off a little bit more on that side from
shopping. And they're fast, man, like people think that it's born in Osbauer. I mean, to put it
in perspective, I mean, out of the box, like, and again, it's not going to get a bunch because
these are NA motors, but you could tune this thing 1500 bucks, get your softronics tuned, you
get about 30 horsepower bumps. So you're at 430, which is to remind people 996 turbo stock one
back in the day 420. I know my my car 997 GT three 415 horsepower. So this has more horsepower
and about the same weight. Yeah. And so I mean, this car can easily run with a GT car. We've seen
it. We've had these come on our rallies, and we've seen them in action. They are not slouches.
They are very, very fast cars. So they can have probably, you know, where I was saying, in the
first part of the series, we're saying like the turbo variants of that two and a half liter with
the Caimans and stuff where you get that low end grunt. If you're just daily, you'll be able to
access that power a lot more. To play a different mindset on it. Well, if you're not in the power
band all the time, meaning like if you had if you've had bought, chose the 991 Carrera S, and you
needed to get into that, that very essentially when that cam came on, in a higher RPM, it's going to
be harder to do that in a traffic setting or a commuting setting. However, the benefit of that
is you're kind of hypermiling. Like the car is going to get a mat. Awesome. Because it's using,
there's not a lot, it's kind of gutless down low. So it's not, you're kind of pedestrian in a good
way in traffic. You're forced to be, you're forced to have manners. Yeah. So you're not out there
trying to hammer it all the time. And maybe that's better for the car. Or maybe it's worse. I don't
know. I'm just throwing a theory out there. I'm just saying like you're not stressing the car out
a lot because you're never really in gear. I mean, the occasional highway blast or on-ramp
blast, I mean, you'll probably be able to clear the carbon out. But I'm just saying
there are benefits to not always being in the power band too if you're dailying is my point.
Italian tune up. Yeah. And if you have an exhaust, maybe you're not pissing a lot of people off too.
I really, really like that 991.1 Crera S variant. It just, it checks a lot of boxes.
It's 9-11. Yeah. Of course. And let's talk about like size too. It's smaller than the 991.2.
Like the dot two even got bigger. Yeah, bigger. Yeah. I just feel like it's a right size car.
The dot twos are good too. I mean, they're all wide body cars that, you know, if you don't know
that, we'll talk about that when we move into that. But there is definitely a benefit to that NA
because that harkens back to a time where that, I'm not saying this other people have used this
word true Porsche, right? Like it's a true Porsche flat six. It's a 3.8, 3.8 liter, you know, 997
vibes, right? Like that's what 997 Crera S has had, right? Like they had a 3.8 too. And this is
higher horsepower, obviously. And you don't have the same kind of bore scoring issues that you had
with the 997, you know, that this all got, yeah, this all got polished out. So like you basically
got, this is the last run of that 3.8 liter before they went turbo charged. And you got
electric steering. This is their first generation for electric steering. That's, that's a little
different. But I was reading some stuff too. And they were saying that the DAW one PDKs are some
of the best PDKs in a lot of people's opinion. Yeah. And they're really robust. They're just,
it's a good car. Like it's a good daily, it's a good, it's a good all rounder. Like, is it the
best on track? No, is it the best in the mountains? No, is it the best at everything? No, but it
basically scores high marks across the board in every category. It's like, oh, can it sit in
traffic? Absolutely. Probably eight out of 10. Oh, can it run to the store? Yeah, it's got a back seat,
it's got a front. Can it go on a road trip? You know, if you want to just go on a weekend
getaway, can you take that car and not have to take the SUV and all those things? Yes, you can.
Can you still go have fun with it? Yes, you can. Is it still have power? Yes, yes. So this is, we've
moved into my personal, like I feel like that's a very, very, checks a lot of, checks a lot of boxes,
right? Like you're like, okay, I think the only part, the area in my personal opinion, it really
doesn't check the boxes because they're holding value pretty well. Like if you get a lower mile
or you chase a good spec one and maybe in a cool color, maybe like in a speed yellow or
maybe something else or even like a guard's rad, like there's a little bit of a premium for that.
So I do think, you know, if you're buying a 14 or 15 or 16 and some of these came in sapphire blue,
like if you're buying a 40, 50,000 mile one of these to daily and spending 85 grand, I think
that's kind of a big ask in my personal opinion. I think that's strong money. But that's what the
market's dictating for that car. Do I agree with it? No, but that's what it is. So in that, in the
same scenario as I did with the base model, I would probably chase a higher mile one.
So I wouldn't be paying a mileage premium because I'm going to rack the miles up anyways.
It's almost one of those things where you go buy a little mile car just to go beat it up in the
mountains. Like you don't, don't do is going to put a lot of miles. Yeah. So you don't get
a depreciated. Yeah. So I'm going to just, I'm going to eat, you know, basically what you're
saying without saying is I'm going to eat the depreciation on this as opposed to somebody
else and you just pay for maintenance, which won't be nothing. Yeah, which will be nothing on
these things because all the bottoms already fallen out of it. So if you're buying one, it's
already 80, 90,000 miles, you know, what if you put 50 or 60 or even a hundred on which would be
a stretch? I mean, it's still going to be worth probably within 15% of what you paid for it,
long as you know deferred maintenance on it and didn't have some catastrophic accident with it
while you had it. So let's move forward. So now there's a big variant change, right? So we go
from 991.1 NA motors to 991.2 turbocharged motors. So if you're not familiar, displacement goes down.
They're all three liters, at least the ones that we're talking about. So we're talking about base
model and an S. They're both three liters, and they're flat sixes. But they went ahead and threw
a turbo on them. Because in the EU, there for a little bit, they were chasing this. And then the EU
changed again. So that's why this changed more. But like they were changing basically, you need to
have a lower displacement engine. Yeah, for emissions, for emission purposes, something like
a weird something. And I don't know why Porsche hasn't done it. So it was a BMW thing. For emissions,
they were doing plants, like how we saw the hemp stuff for the GT four cops works. Yeah.
But they were saying that's like a 50 or 60% reduction in emissions, because of the material
that they swapped for the outside from aluminum or whatever you're using. Yeah, that's interesting.
So it's like, why is an engine not done to anybody to reduce their their carbon impact? Yeah.
And run a five liter or whatever they want. That's a good point. Maybe they will. Maybe
they're saving it to the very end, right? Maybe DRS was gonna be some craziness. Yeah,
maybe they're saving it. So base model, let's go over the stats on it. Base model is 370 horsepower,
331 foot pound of torque. Price point on that vehicle is right around 75,000 for the the bottom
end stuff. And then you're you're can get into 100 grand, if it's super low miles and you're
chasing color. These are the newest ones, obviously, next to the 992 generation. So like
they're going to carry a higher dollar figure just because they're closer to being new.
Again, with the interesting thing about these, the base model and the S model and the GTS,
they all have the same body. Like this is the first time Porsche has ever done this, they were
and this is for they explained it as doing it for production to speed up production,
meaning like we're oh, hey, this car is, you know, 20 millimeters wider as an S as a base model.
So instead of them having to have different fenders and different all this,
they did this thing with the chassis where everybody from the base model all the way up.
I think the only variant model is the turbo, the turbo models, and the four S models that are a
little bit wider than the GTS, the S and the base. Those are the only ones, those super high tier
ones. But all of these are the same width, which are wider than it's back in the day 996. If you
guys remember, if you bought a base model, it was a narrow body. Now, you know, you're not necessarily
maybe buying this because you're worried that people think that you have some narrow body,
like it's not cool. It's not that I don't feel like this crazily noticeable as it was back in the
day. Yeah. But I mean, the hips on this are pretty wide. Like prime example is this, the base model
911, this is a big step up in there. And Aaron's brought it up before, which is a good point,
where they're starting to go like higher level, like the base model car, the rear tires on this
car are 305s on the base. So not too many base model cars are running 305s on the rear. So that
if that puts that in perspective for you that what they think this car should be at. Now we're
talking about tunability before with the turbo Caymans and all that stuff. We're back. Basically,
these vehicles really, really respond well to tuning, opening up that exhaust. So you're talking
about 370 horsepower with a tune and all that. You're mid fives if you want to be.
So is there even a reason to discuss an S? Is there, I mean, with it being the same same and
the production makes sense too? I was just thinking that now they can calculate the same amount of
paint, same amount interior cost. The difference between the S really and the base are the size
of the turbos, like the size of the turbos and the S are hair bigger. There's a little bit bigger
than the base, but not like by a ton. But we'll get there. So that's the real variant between
the two of them outside of that, other than not being an S. That's really all there is.
And you could spec a base just like you could spec an S, like all of the stuff's on the table.
I mean, if you're buying used, you're obviously going to be victim of whatever is out there available
and chasing hopefully something it's used in second hand that somebody spec'd well,
right? Like with sports chrono and all the things that we mentioned before.
But yeah, this, you and I have talked in length about how we feel about this vehicle.
So let's go ahead and discuss the S. That way we can just kind of pair them together and talk about
them. So the S variant, basically the exact same thing, 3 liter flat, flat 6, 420 horsepower,
368 foot pounds of torque, price dealt to stronger though, like,
like you're looking around 80, like on the bottom end, and then you're 100 plus,
like depending on where you want to go with it. Is it worth back to what you were saying now that
we can talk about this like now that we've talked about the final car? I don't think it's worth that
price bump to go get a little bit bigger of a turbo, especially when there's they respond both
cars respond very well to tuning. I mean, yes, the turbo is a little bit bigger,
you'll probably get a lot more horsepower, but you know, you'll probably be looking at what
560 ish horsepower in this, you'll probably get 520 ish in the in the base in your daily.
And yeah, I don't think you'll be missing that 40 horsepower. And then going back again,
till we talked about turbo boost, this this thing starts developing power on the low end,
as opposed to having to rev it out. So in a daily situation, my personal opinion,
these ones make the most sense. So you're like 1500 rbms, like 2000. Yeah, 2000. Yeah, you're,
you're building torque and boost and all that stuff already. So, and you know, you think about it,
you're going to be between two and 4500 in traffic most of the time. So you're going to be in your
power band, not that you need to be, because you'll be getting a lot of it if you, you know,
use the go pedal a lot. But you know, these, if you're not familiar or never heard these before,
these still have difference between these and the two and a half liter because that's a flat four,
this is a flat six, these still sound like a flat six, they sound great. So basically, you get a
lot of turbo spool at low RPM when the car is maybe, you know, pulling out or leaving. And as
you come on power, then that flat six starts to roar and it starts to take over the power of the
turbo. And then when you on D cell, you get more turbo flutter noises again. So essentially,
you're really getting both sounds out of this, you're getting turbo sounds, and you're getting flat
six sounds, basically just like a 911 turbo. Because that's what this is. It's just a base model.
Just doesn't have the word turbo in the back of it. Exactly. Because the heart of what it is,
it's a turbo. Well, that's what I was going to say is like, it's kind of, we're kind of debating
turbo, turbo s without having the nameplate on the back. Pretty much. And are they K 24s?
Are they are doesn't does that old tech? That's, that's old tech. It's like they're, they're variable,
like turbo, they're hybrid wheels, like they're, they spool up really fast. They're those K 24s
are like old school, man, like there's way too much like these newer ones. There's hardly any
turbo lag in them. And I think if you, if you you tune them, it's even less. It's only on my mind
because my dad was like, we either get new seats or turbos. I was like, well, all right, by one
991.2. If you're chasing power and not necessarily like chasing power, I don't want to use the
like, oh my God, I'm going to go drag races. I'm chasing power, but I'm talking about something
that I feel with a tune. This is the most bang for the buck in the group that we've talked about,
to be honest with you. Did they change a lot of things for the dot to like visually? Because I
like flaps in the front, just a little bit, but nothing major, like
so nothing interior wise, we're like, oh, I get this interior. Yeah, like it's, oh my God,
like now the tech between dot one and dot two is a little bit better. The PCM and dot two is much
better. Yeah, like that's when Apple CarPlay starts to show up in dot twos. So if that's
important to you, that's where you want to be at, especially if that tech, if you don't care about
that and you're going to swap it anyways, I guess it really doesn't matter because they make,
you know, doubled in units that work very well that you can put in. There's also some like cards
and stuff you can buy that piggyback on a lot of the things you can just open up your radio and
yeah, there's a lot of options and Porsche even makes a retro fit even for the dot ones where
you can go to a newer PCM if you really, if you were, you know, if you're thinking longevity and
you're like, okay, well, hey, I want the NA because that's what's important to me, but I really hate
the tech. When you spend three grand and you have the most modern tech that you need in it and now
you've taken the car from, you know, early 2000s to current. So I mean, how do you feel? I mean,
I don't want to dismiss the S, but like, let's go ahead and just talk about these two. Obviously,
I think I know your answer, but I'd like to hear you say it. Like, which one of these would you
pick? Obviously, the Carrera. I don't know. I would probably just do the base car over the S,
knowing one, if I'm trying to stick within a certain price point under the 100 and probably
what I could find would be more special in a base and a tune later will give me about the same power.
I don't see a reason to hunt down an S and spend extra money in that case. And if it's really not
getting me anything extra, like you said, tech-wise, that can all be retrofitted stuff. And I like the
architecture and I want turbos. That seems like the move. Unless there was a color that they
offered in the S that they didn't offer in the base, which because it's a dot too. Who knows?
Maybe. But yeah, I'm with you. I'm with the 991.2 base between those two. I just think,
again, we use this all the time, but it's the best bang for the buck with a tune. And I just,
I mean, you do the delta. Let's say you get into, let's just call it 80 for argument's sake,
on a 991.2 Carrera. And kind of the same variant of what you have. Yeah, it probably has like
a little bit nicer stuff inside of it. Maybe like, I don't know, not necessarily. Maybe
has sports seats because like you can get one, it has sports chrono, it has a mini base. Because
I've looked at a lot of them and a lot of them are actually pretty well-specced, at least from
creature comfort wise. I feel like because that car was, it was an expensive car when it was new.
Like it was above, obviously, 100 grand. So people were speccing them, you know, they weren't
minding spending a little bit more because they knew they were getting more out of the car,
meaning like, oh, I have potential to tune if I want. So I'm not worried about engine-wise,
but like, I feel like a lot more people focused on interior. Yeah, I want these seats. Yeah,
I want sports seats. Yeah, I want sports seats. I want to be ventilated. I want this. I want sports
chrono. I want a slick top or I want a sunroof. You know, whatever. I want PDLS. I don't want
PDLS. I want PASM. I don't want PASM. So there's a slick option. There's not just sunroofs everywhere.
Yeah, so like some people have them. Some people don't. You want a slick top for you?
I don't really care. Like, honestly, if it's a daily, like, I kind of want a sunroof. So at least
if I'm having a coupe, I can open it if I want. I mean, same, same, right? You mean the sunroof
and the Cayenne, the GT3 and the other day. I mean, just exactly. It's a normalization.
I only slick top cars in 993. I mean, I'm also just, I'm comfortable with sunroof, dude. Just
go ahead and hack. Just get sunroofs. Soles all that 993. But like, dude, I put sunroofs in all
my cars. I'll get that like 1992 Explorer, like where it's just cut and that's, you know, it's
has like a latch, like almost like on a boat. You just open it and that's all it does. Like,
it flips up. But I think of all the cars we talked about, okay, so let's close on this.
You know, we talked about four liter boxters. We've talked about two and a half liter boxters.
We in Caymans and 991.1 Carrera NAs turbo cars. So now of all the cars, we've discussed what their
powers are, where their current market is on the ask for them. Where are you at if you are in a
situation listening to the show and you want an all rounder and you need a daily and you can afford
pretty much all of this is, you know, barring the bottom end. But like the price variants are all
pretty much close. Give or take five or 10 grand here. They're not like crazy amount of money.
Yeah. What speaks to you out of this group of cars? Probably hunting your same area over there.
Well, 991.1 Carreras, I think. No turbos. That's that says longevity to me. And you know,
I know the last a while, but I don't know when they need to be rebuilt.
Mm hmm. That's a thing. That's a 9-11. That's the thing for me. Yeah.
I can't get over that fact. I don't know. I mean, it's not a, I can appreciate the Cayman and the
boxers, but that's just something I like. I feel like it's, it's, it'll be vintage by the time
that's 10 years old from now. Oh, yeah. That'll be kind of, that'll be kind of cool. And they look
similar to me in my perspective of the 997. Yeah. I think that they're aging well. I mean,
that's the beauty of Porsche, right? No monster changes in body, body lines. And the narrow body
too. Yeah. Yeah, I like, you know, you, it depends on what we get, what, what day you ask me in the
week, you know, you asked me tomorrow, I'll be like, man, I'm really feeling like a 718 Cayman
GTS 4-liter. You know, I'm like, that really makes sense. You know, get one in like Python Green
or something, or get one in Chalk and like just, it's mid-engine, you know, like you, you can start
to rationalize and talk to yourself and talk yourself into that car. And I don't mean that
negatively. I'm just saying like, it could, it can do the same thing as a Carrera S.
And some people could argue, yeah, it has more space, right? But at the same time,
does that aesthetic body line appease you? You know, does that, you know, the old school
turnaround, do you turn around and look at that car every time? Probably it's a, it is a pretty car,
it has great body lines. You're like, you're sitting on the driveway, I'm not even looking at you.
Yeah, right. But I guess the hard thing is, is you got to really know yourself, I feel like when
you make decisions with these cars, I think that a lot of mistakes you and I have seen with people
where they'll go buy a car because one will come up and it'll probably be a pretty good price.
They weren't even looking at Cayman GTSs, they were kind of looking at 911s, but they're like,
oh my God, there's a smoking deal and then they get the car and then they have it for a few years
and they're like, I'm ready to move on. Because they didn't really invest a lot of time to think
about like, do I want to drive that car for, is that or will that scratch my permanent itch? Or
will that be like a temporary thing of, okay, that's a stepping stone car. Like I see people
doing that and that's fine. But if it's your daily, like for me, I don't like to change things up a
lot. So if I'm buying something, I'm trying to forecast out to say, man, I don't know, you know,
and I think that's when you start to get to that point when you're purchasing cars,
it becomes challenging because you can riddle yourself with do's and don'ts and what you think
and what may you not think is going to work for you. You toss this in the morning meditations.
But all of these cars have a lot going for them, right? They have storage. That's why I brought
them up. Like, because I feel if you really break all of them down like we did, it turns into kind
of a challenging exercise. It turns into, oh, okay, what do I want to open up? Do I want to top open
experience? That's the problem. Yeah, I want to top top down experience because I don't own any cars
that are convertible. And okay, if I do go that way, do I want an NA motor or do I want a turbo
motor? Do I want to listen to turbo stuff or do I want to get a 911? And I'm comfortable with a
911. I've had a bunch of 911s and I know I can store it in the back. I'm not going to put a cage
in it because it's going to be my daily and that car is going to age really well and desirability
on that car is always going to be high and it's like this. Yeah, it's like this. It's the,
the windows. What do you think about 88? Do you think they'll fit on there? Yeah, right.
I'm going to go center locks. I'm going to upgrade to center locks. Make things real difficult.
Just very unpractical right away. Or do you go chase, you know, 911 turbo power for base
bottle money? You know, you can go out and put down big, big turbo numbers and torque numbers
with a base model with a three liter and you still get the flat six noises and you get the
turbo noises. So you don't have to sacrifice and go, oh, my car sounds like super. Sounds like a
pretty good plus in there for both noises. Yeah, I mean, it's that's why I put this
plethora of cars together because I feel like they're close enough, meaning like obviously we
did the 718 turbos and then and then the NAs and then we did the 911s and the 991.2s and the N.1s
with NAs and turbos. So I feel like there's a lot of similarities in both parallels. So,
you know, main question is, are you, do you have to have a mid engine car? If the answer is yes,
then that makes all of the 911s go away, right? Like if you don't care about mid engine,
now that makes 911s more appealing, right? So then it's kind of like, because that's more
traditional, right? That's big brother. That's like, okay, hey, this is what the back of.
Yeah, your logic squares, all of a sudden your path changes. Yes, no. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
What is that? Like the the hot scale, right? Yeah. It's like, she's an eight out of 10.
Super cool. She's a dude. Like it's not a chick, right? Like the hot crazy scale.
But I don't have an answer yet. I don't need to buy the car yet. I'm about 12 months out. So I'll
probably be another 14 episodes of this. Dude, I'll this will wear me down over the next. Yeah.
And then I'll probably, you know, you'll be like, Hey, would you come to the side? I was like, dude,
I'm not buying anything. I'm so worn out. I'm so worn out. I bought it. I've returned already.
I've driven all of them for the last year. Every day in my mind, like multiple times,
and I'm burnout, like I'm going outside a portion. But I think there is a lot of bang for the buck.
But I mean, at the same time, me personally now, like I did this exercise for pretty much anyone
out there, like I think it's a very, very good exercise and a lot of comparable abilities here.
And a lot of these have strong attributes. But there are very big differences in all of them.
But yeah, I also looked at, for me, just speaking personally, now I was like,
man, this could be an opportunity. Not that I'm getting rid of the other cars. I'm still keeping
those the 911 or the GT3 and the 993. I'm just adding. So I'm like, maybe I could step out
and try something else. But then that, not because I'm afraid to drive something outside.
If you guys don't know Aaron and I are just car enthusiasts, this just we just happen to land in
Porsche podcasting, like we love Porsche stuff. But this is like, we'd be lying to you if we
said we don't talk about or think about other cars often. So with those price points, don't
get me wrong, I've definitely cross shopped like heavily cross shop. But I still come
everything that I've cross shopped, even the special ones, like I'm talking about like AMG GTs
and all this other stuff that we think that are cool, that are super affordable, actually
way cheaper than a lot of this stuff, I'd save a lot of money going that way.
I feel like knowing me, that would just be a placeholder, because I feel like after a certain
amount of time, I will no longer have interest in that car. So it'd be cool because it's different.
Yeah, initially. And then you'd be like, you don't like it because it is different. Yeah.
And then like three, four years in, you're kind of like, and now you're, you're doing exactly what
I told myself I didn't want to do. I want to, I want to just buy something and hang on to a 10
plus years. Now I'm flipping and going, you could lose money on it. And then now you're more than
likely you are going to lose money on Sambo year. And now I'm having to make another purchase again,
which I actually don't want to do. I'd rather buy right the one time and just be done with it,
right? And just buy like, okay, hey, I bought this and I'm done with it. So where does that put me?
That puts me back in Porsche. I think all of these cars mentioned today. And on the past show,
I could live with for 10 years, but I really, really have to hone that in to see,
I think it really turns into, I don't think I'm going Boxster because I don't really want to
convert for the reasons I said earlier, right? I'm not in love with the roof line when the top is up.
I do like the anniversary one a lot, the four liter. But I think I'm drawn to that just because
I'm a Porsche homer. And it's low production, right? So it's like, there's something like that,
that Trump cards always like, they only made like 1500 of them. And it's like,
well, why do I think that way? That's so stupid that they've, you know, infiltrated our brains
like that. But at a principle, I almost don't want to buy it because of that too, where I'm like,
you know what, I know, I almost kind of want to buy the gritty 991.2 base model just to be like,
you know, where people are like, Oh my God, that car is so fast. And by dude, it's just a base.
It's got to sit. It's my daily. And they're like, it's faster. My GT three. They're like, yeah.
You know, and again, we live in a place where the roads are straight and they're flat. So
yeah, both things are very, very helpful. However, turbocharged works good at altitude.
So if you really wanted to, I mean, this car could get down in the mountains too,
if you really wanted to. And is that a special car where it's going to be worth money someday?
No, the base model is definitely not. But I'm not that goes back to me not caring about
that part of it. Like I don't want that because I want to mild this thing up. I want to drive it
everywhere. Like I want to be able to put guilt free mileage on it. I want to be able to say,
Hey, shit. Yeah, let's drive it to Utah. Who cares? It's already got 100,000 miles on it. What
does it matter? You know, and then go rip all your out there or do whatever you're going to do
with it. Like I kind of want to do a lot of things with it. Like I don't want road trip.
But I want to do like I don't want to treat it like it's special. I want to treat it like a car.
I want to use it. And you know, buying something I feel like that helps me mentally as opposed to
Oh, go get a 25th anniversary. Oh, go get the four liter. Because when you get that special
thing, you're like, well, you know, I do want to put a bunch of miles. Yeah. And then I handcuff
myself. Right. I don't know if I would treat those cars like that. I want to believe that I would,
I would still have the integrity to say like I'm driving it every day. I mean, I'll have to drive
it every day. Like I will like I'll go to the gym. Like I will have to put miles on it.
But again, will it be guilt free miles or will be careful miles? Like I rather be fun
guilt free miles, right? And I feel like a base.
Or even that 991, you know, career s, I feel like I could do that with that car and not feel
like because I made a bunch of them, you know, I wouldn't feel like, Oh, this is so special.
I mean, as opposed to like where people get corvetti about stuff where I guess you could
do that with the 991 dot one, the career s, you're like, it's the last 10 days.
What if you pick one up and all of a sudden just the market goes, no, it's in those cars.
Then you mean stuck in that like, Oh, great. No, I'd appreciate it. 50.
Well, if, well, if it happens in the first couple years of me owning it, where I don't
mile it up to the point where I lose money, I'll just flip it. I'll sell it and I'll buy
something else where I that isn't going nuts. You know, like if I did go in a and then that
went up like $20,000, $30,000 while I had it, I'd be like, cool, I'll just take the money.
And then I'll just go buy the 991 dot two base, like what I was going to buy. That's,
that's probably what I do. Instead of just being like, yep, now it's special. You know,
like I don't want, I actually don't want that. I mean, it probably would happen.
Like if you get in at the right time and you drive it, I mean, I don't know if it'll go up
20 or 30, but I definitely, I think they're probably already going up to be honest with you.
And that's probably where the smart money is right now for a lot of folks.
You know, and, and, you know, enthusiast wise, people are definitely chasing
manual, but for the purpose of daily, I don't, that makes no sense to me.
But in the amount of, but you are kind of for your future proofing yourself in a way too,
because the amount of people that can still drive a manual is less and less and less and less
every year that goes by. Yeah. And I'm more so not really looking at resale, but I do want to have
some, I guess my purchase, I want to have it worth something, you know, obviously I don't want it to
be totally run out. And I think either one of these cars, I don't think they'll ever go below
like $30,000, even if you put a hundred thousand miles on them. Like I mean, in the 911 range,
you know, you know, obviously these two and a half liter turbo cars, like those cars will
probably bottom out just because of the stigma behind them. But those four liters, like they'll
always retain value. I feel like that may be a reason if you wanted to do a trend analysis and
look back at all the like the assets, if you looked at the 997s or anything else like that,
I mean, always the Carrera S is always going to have that little bit more of a,
yeah, a premium hold. Yeah. I mean, look at the 997 Carrera S's. I mean, they're,
that's where they're back. Yeah. Where people, you know, if you've been edged out of a GT3,
but you love a 997, that's pretty much where you end up. Thanks Porsche marketing,
because it's exactly like, well, I really want the base, but I can get that middle, that medium
size, you know, just around the middle. Yeah. I think what is that thing? 355 horsepower?
I have a 3.8 liter. Sounds great. I think it's 385 or 385?
365 maybe? Somewhere around there. Yeah. But it's strong. It's still a good car,
like makes great noises, you know, and they made some cool colors on them too. So it's a,
that's just too old for me. Like I love, don't get me wrong, obviously I have a 997 UD2. I love
the way they look. I just want something a little bit more modern tech. You need something different.
One, again, you need something different. What would you go buy a Carrera S 997?
Yeah. Well, I mean you could, but if it just be stupid, like I, you know, and I don't know,
that doesn't make any sense for me. All right. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed the breakdown on
those and, you know, I think anybody who's shopping anything more in the modern, you know,
slightly used, I think that's a good exercise for everybody to like, to hear all the numbers,
kind of what they're going for. And then I would seriously encourage anybody who's
either in a similar situation to me or will be at some point, start doing your homework now,
start thinking like, I know it's hard like people like, I don't know what I'm going to do tomorrow.
I understand that. Like I get that too. But when you're making this big of a purchase,
you really do need to consider like, can I live with this car for the next 10 years?
Because that's how you really further your purchases. Like you got to buy right. Like,
because and not necessarily buy right, meaning you got to buy right for like,
resale, you need to be buying right for yourself. Meaning, oh man, I've always wanted
a convertible experience. Well, you have your answer then, or you're like, I always have been
in love with the Cayman and I've always wanted a four liter and that's what I'm on. Then that go
get that. Or it's like, I don't have a 911 and I want a daily 911. So like really, really know
what you want to do because all of these are good choices. And again, I know we mulled over it and
I'll and I'll close with this, which is probably the least popular of all of these are is the two
and a half liter turbo variant of whether it's the Boxster or it's the Cayman. Those cars are
robust. They've never seen one get down. That's that's where you'd be like, all right. Yeah,
it's a different story because both Chris O's and Josh,
her setup, I think Chris O's was was better set up at first. But then yeah, what was that Miami
Blue Carrera S that came in as he had a tune on his that came out at the leg group three. Yeah.
Seeing is believing Aaron's correct. I was like, Oh, cool. That's cool. And they sound good. They
all had exhaust, you know, like people mod their cars. So like, man, they do. When you see him
in action and you see him going down, I don't care if you spent $500,000, like you see that thing.
Even if you have all the money in the world, you're just kind of look at that little $65,000
Cayman, you know, as GTS tune take off and just disappear and you can't run with it
really changes your perspective on things where you're kind of like, it doesn't really matter
what's up here because that thing is fast and it didn't cost as much and it's still a Porsche.
And I think that's where a lot of people, even within the Porsche world or and there's so many
armchair quarterbacks, right? That don't even own a Porsche that say, Oh, well, that's not even,
that's a flat four, dude. That's not even like a real Porsche. It's like, dude, you don't even own
a Porsche. Like what the hell are you talking about? Like that car is fast. Like it has all
of the DNA of a Porsche just because it has that engine. It's not like they,
it's not like they borrowed that engine from somebody else. Like they developed that engine.
That's right. It's not a crossover. Yeah, it's not some like, Oh, hey,
Subaru, can we use your flat four? Like they made their own flat four for this car. They made all
of the DNA for it, how all of it works. So it's it is a Porsche all the way through.
And I really haven't heard any, maybe you might have, but I haven't heard of any like
catastrophic things. I haven't either. I mean, they're strong. And I think that's a secret sauce
to be honest with you. I think there's a lot of people that, that maybe know or not know. And
if you listen to the show, you just got educated. Maybe you didn't know. And now you know, and it's
those things are rowdy, like with a tune. And, and if you, if you really want to go further,
and that you're moving outside of the daily world, where I was kind of approaching with
these vehicles. But if that's going to be your special car, because that's what you can afford,
and you want to dump some serious money in it, man, you want to talk about like
hurting feelings, you take that in the mountain, you put some Olens on that thing, tune exhaust,
put some buckets in there, dude, and some sticky tires. Get the hell out of the way
because that thing's coming, dude. Because that thing will run. Yeah, that thing will run your
ass off the mountain. Do not follow that car. Like basically, yeah, you see Josh out there rolling.
If he's on fresh stickies, stay the hell away from him because that guy will take your ass deep.
You're like, I got GT3 RS. I'm gonna be just fine. No, you're not. No, you're not.
But I don't have anything else for him. Do you have anything else?
No, I guess buy it two and a half later. Yeah, that's our ultimate conclusion.
Yeah, that's the secret sauce right now. I mean, hey, whatever you buy, it's going to be great.
You listen to the end. That's why now you get the secret stuff.
Yeah. All right. See ya.
See ya. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Peacart Talk.
Connect with us on Instagram at PeacartTalk or online at PeacartTalk.com.
About this episode
Dive into the nuances of choosing the right Porsche for daily driving under $100k, focusing on the 991 generation. The hosts discuss the appeal of the naturally aspirated 991.1 Carrera S with its 3.8L flat-six engine, highlighting its balance of power, weight, and reliability. They also explore the transition to the 991.2 turbocharged models, explaining changes in engine displacement, emissions, and production efficiencies. The conversation touches on value retention, driving dynamics, and practical daily usability, offering insights for enthusiasts weighing modern tech against classic Porsche character.
Right where we left off. You've got the spec sheet in front of you, the price ranges are real, and the question the crew has been circling the whole episode finally lands on the table: if you had to write the check today — daily driver, PDK only, traffic more often than mountain roads — which one do you actually buy?
Thank You to the Kimchi Crew and Our Listeners
Before we get into it, a quick thank you to everyone who's been riding with us. The messages, the DMs, the comments — you guys keep this thing going and we genuinely appreciate it. This community is something else, and we don't take that for granted. Now. Back to the cars.
So What Would You Actually Daily?
The ground rules are simple: PDK only, because this thing is going to sit in traffic far more often than it sees a sweeper at elevation. Fun matters, mountain roads matter, but they're the exception. The question is what works best when the exception isn't happening. The crew goes around the table — 718 Boxster GTS 4.0 at 394 horsepower and 309 torque, ranging $75k to $90k. 718 Cayman GTS 4.0, same numbers, slightly more money at $80k to $95k. The turbocharged 718 variants — S at 350 horsepower and 309 torque, GTS at 365 and 317 — with Boxster money starting in the $40k range and Cayman topping out around $75k. Then the 991 world: the 991.1 Carrera with the 3.4L naturally aspirated flat six, 350 horsepower, 287 torque, $50k to $70k. The 991.1 Carrera S stepping up to the 3.8L, 400 horsepower, 325 torque, $60k to $85k. And then the 991.2 — 3.0L twin-turbo making 370 in the base and 420 in the S, with pricing from $75k all the way to $110k depending on how deep you want to go.
Which One Wins and Why
The goal isn't a one-day car. It's a ten-year car — longer if possible. Daily, fun, occasionally on a real road, and something you don't want to get rid of. That framing changes the calculus immediately. This isn't poverty spec shopping, but it also isn't money-is-no-object territory. You want to save where saving makes sense without ending up in the wrong car. For the crew, the 991.1 Carrera S keeps rising to the top. The 3.8L naturally aspirated flat six is the engine you'll still be talking about in year eight. Four hundred horsepower, 325 torque, the sound is unreplicated, and the maintenance story on a well-sourced example is manageable in a way the 991.2's turbo system eventually isn't. The 718 GTS 4.0 is an emotional argument that holds up — but it's a smaller, louder, lower car that earns its keep on roads, not commutes. The 991 wraps the same soul in something you can actually live in. And the 991.2, for all its numbers, takes you out of naturally aspirated territory in a way that matters over ten years of ownership.
Get on the Road — Fahren 2026
If all this has you thinking about what it actually feels like to drive one of these cars on a real road with real corners, Fahren 2026 is the answer. October 13 through 16, Georgia, Tennessee, and North Carolina — 27 spots, and the kind of driving you'll be talking about for years. Head to pcartalk.com for details and get your name in before it fills up.
Outro
That's the show. Thanks for listening. If you want more, join the Pcar Club at Patreon.com/pcartalk. Follow us on Instagram @pcartalk. Until next time, drive it, race it and never save it.
