Why Licensing and Lobbying is Important for Technicians with Greg Buckley

So the thing that you have to do, the most important thing that everybody in your position, my position, and even I don't care who you are, is learn the word no. If you learn the word no, you can graciously excuse yourself from a lot of situations. One, you can say no when they come to you, but better, you really know. K n o w. How to avoid being asked to say yes.

Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome back to another exciting episode of the Jada Mechanic podcast. Mister Greg Buckley, the world famous mister Greg Buckley of Buckley Auto care.

Jeff, I hate the world famous. It makes me sound like Kentucky fried chicken. World famous chicken.

But, yeah, well, I mean, I don't want to date myself, but, I mean, you're another. You know, I talk about, like, we were just before. We just people like Dutch and stuff like that. I knew those kind of names from way back before Facebook on I 18. So, I mean, yours is another name that I've seen on YouTube and in the circles for a really long time. So, I mean, this is. You were on the list. When I sat down, I was like, okay, I'm gonna do a podcast, and I need, you know, to have some exemplary examples.

As I said, yours was the name on the list. And I just, you know, it's. The last year has gone so fast. I was. Yeah, you were high on the list, but it's hard to get everything, you know, always lined up, so.

It truly is. I appreciate it. I mean, I don't. I. I really don't look for anything besides just helping out and. Yeah, you know, I've been at it for a long time, and I think what, you know, I guess a claim of to fame would be that I. I really got involved with technology pretty early, and ratchet and wrench picked up a story with me and Google Glass, and it wasn't from the repair side. It was from the, I guess, the client side and how we present our talents and stuff that goes wrong through DVI.

And from that point on, it just kind of snowballed and I suppose. And I spoke for a while, I coached for a while at ATI, and I just try to be natural and be, like, real about everything, and I just do my best and I do what comes naturally to me. So I'm fortunate. I've been mentored in the same circles that you're getting to know. I've known for quite some time, and I'm very blessed by that because these guys, men and women, are just phenomenal. And I've always said that we are the best people on earth, we're salt of the earth. We wear our hearts on our sleeve. You know, I grew up with fixing cars for free just as a favor, you know, the old days, but that built, that built a lot of character.

You got to see a lot of why people are asking you to do it for free or for no charge. You're very close to the emotions and the elements of life within your community. So, you know, I've seen the changes, you know, where I mean, and I went through them. You know, I grew up as a pump jockey and, you know, eight years old, starting off just pumping gas and getting to know people and learning all the things that you do about either selling or, you know, hey, could, would you buy premium instead of regular, or can I check your oil? You need a quart, wiper, plates, TBA, all that. But you also got to experience, as I grew through the profession, that, you know, every rung up was something different. You know, you go into, from the pumps to the lube tech, and now you're doing oil changes and you're experiencing the mechanical side of things. From there, you become a, you know, a tech or mechanic, and you're working on cars at a much deeper level, and then you decide to take on ownership, and then you go into an ownership situation, and there's a lot of transitioning that goes on there and. And you.

You change with it. And sometimes the change is good, but you always leave something behind.

Yeah.

And, you know, I experienced firsthand wherever, from coming from a sales or from the pump side to being a mechanic, a technician, the things you let go were important. And sometimes you don't realize that. And, like, can you check the air in my tires? And you drop your. You drop your tools and you run out and check air in the tires and you don't realize that, yes, all the coaching companies will go. You can't do that. Your productivity, you'll lose all that. At the same time, you're going to lose that possible of gaining a client or a really good client that's come up and asking, you know, hey, Greg, I got a really weak tire here. Can you help me out? And you're a one man show or two man show, and what are you going to do? You have to accommodate.

You know, there's things that go on are so different. I still, you know, you and I shared a couple comments about what techs are experiencing versus owners, and you're starting to see both sides of it. What I. What I disdain is everybody chirping about their numbers.

Yeah.

And I get. I don't get angry. I just think that they're misguided because numbers are just a reflection of what that particular business did. All right? And to me, a lot of it is vanity. It doesn't reflect on what you are treating your people like. It doesn't show you what community you're in. And guys will take that as a Bible and they'll go, well, I should be able to do that. And, well, you probably could, but at what scale, you know? And plus the fact that when you talk about money, like I teach my guys, I mean, the first thing I'm going to tell you when I bring you on board is we don't.

We don't chase cash here. We don't chase money. We become so good that money, we're attracted to it. And there's a difference there, you know? And so I think it makes a difference in how you run your business.

So Lucas makes, you know, he keeps reminding me a lot lately, and it's becoming more poignant as I look and as I aging up and getting into this second side of the industry is money is not the. Doesn't immediately equate to success, right. It's. It's a person's yardstick for some people. And that's fine. There's no fault on that, right? If you want to be. Own four stores and, you know, be an absentee owner and be able to live on vacation, essentially. Right? And there's no fault for that.

That's nothing wrong with. But I mean, for other people that. And he talks about it, his parents generation where they loved to work, probably your father, as we were talking before, that just love to work. Like they don't want to not work. So once they have everything that they need financially, everything is taken care of, they don't see themselves as being like, what is growth? You know, growth is a funny thing. Like, I see that all the time. And I even used it just a couple minutes ago in a conversation. I forget sometimes that growth doesn't immediately equate to success.

You know, it's perception. And Lucas, thank God, he reminds me of that a lot, that he's very comfortable where he is. He's very happy. He loves what he's built, building. It's stressful, right, as any shop owner. But, you know, I. I wouldn't trade places with him, but I look at that example and I'm like, man, you know what. What an awesome way to do it, you know?

Well, it's true. I mean, but you still have to have balance in your life. If not, you really do get burned out. And what you thought you were going to create kind of shatters and little pieces very slowly to the point where, you know, you can't call it back. So it takes a lot of attention. And, you know, there are ways of going about it that I think that are important. You know, getting down to the nitty gritty with that, you know, for me personally, is that I was fortunate enough to create with my wife, two wonderful children, and they were the focus of my life and my mission and purpose until they got to the point where they had their own social circles and networks and they're sustained with their own, you know, outreach or, you know, sports and all that. And we're beyond that.

And then I was able to start doing a little bit more stuff for the industry and expanding a little bit and doing all of that. And I thought that was well paced. I think it was about, I was 40 maybe, when all that started coming around. And I think it's really important that no matter what you do, your first responsibility is to the person that you are with the closest, and of course, the human beings that you create. And I really mean that. And I think that carrying situation carries over into your business. You start looking at people, people with everything that they got, they have going on as well. So I don't know, it's just.

Just my. My way.

Yeah, it's huge. It's when, when we see some shop owners talk about, you know, it's a family, right? And then we see other shop owners and it's like they, you know, they keep them at an arm's length. You know what I mean? Like, it's a professional. It's a professional relationship. And that's where I'm caught in the middle on some of this, is because it's like, I don't necessarily, when an owner says, well, my customers are part of my family, I really go, no, because that's, I've seen too many times. Your true family gets sacrificed at the expense of what they think is the best thing for the customer. Right. A lot of shops that spiral into failure because they get addicted to that hero mentality, that feel good smile, that you really help that person out.

And that's great. What we're all should be aspiring to be, you know, as a servant, too, but we can't do it at the expense of our staff, you know, so it's a funny word. When I see it used as, you know, my customers, my family, I see it used all the time as my staff. And I think that's great. But I see sometimes where it's like it can happen because you see an owner and it's like they start working on the second generation. You know, I've had misses Smith's car here. Now I have misses Smith's daughter's car here. Her whole family, maybe even a granddaugh child now makes it into that age.

And it's like, regardless of what we want to think, their family, you know what I mean? Like it's a distant cousin. Yeah, it's still a distant, you know, their family, like you're part of, like you said, that community.

Well, I think that when you go back to what we were just talking about, the mom and pops, you know, my dad, Lucas's parents, and thousands of other parents, they, they worked there seven days a week because they said they have to be there for their family clients, right. Sacrificing everything that they've done personally. So that seven day a week, 05:00 a.m. to 06:00 p.m. whatever it took, that was, that was their way. And I think it's fortunate because I learned from my son and son of law and this generation, you know, look, you work to play and you need to have time off. And I think that I've had to learn to respect that a little bit more. And even today, you know, if I answer an email or set up an appointment on a weekend, I get my rear end chewed out by my son.

Stay out of it. You don't need to do this. This isn't what you're here for anymore, and that's hard to take. But, you know, I mean, and I'm dealing with it that I don't have to have. That's not my role anymore. And it hurts sometimes because you've been brought up and you've grown into customer focus. Hey, what do you need seven days a week? Answer an email, set an appointment. And it's not the way anymore.

And I think it's good. I really do. Because if we're like, let's say an old dog like me, if we don't listen to the younger guys like you, you know, and we don't listen to your concerns as a technician or we don't listen to other shop owners who are younger and bringing new ideas, we're not going to be around long, and if we are, we're going to be frustrated.

Yeah.

You know, so we have to keep an open mind. We have to go in a direction that accommodates maybe a broader spectrum of ideas in order to succeed. And I think that's important that owners have that. I do believe that technicians should have it as well. They need, we all need to see what this whole pie is about.

Yeah, I don't want to say the whole analogy that every generation comes in doesn't work as hard as the previous. I don't think it's necessarily that's 100% accurate. I think it's harder is a relative thing. Yeah, but I mean, you know, lots of the young people, like for instance now the shop I work at, four day workweek, you know, no weekend ever, right. That has become such a pivotal part of my culture in terms of who I will take a job with to never have to work a Saturday again.

Right.

I can't even when I, I'm losing touch with the people that are still out there. Sometimes working Saturdays, sometimes working Sundays, sometimes working Fridays. And I don't fault them for it. And I'm not trying to say that every owner out there, hey, you need to go to a four day weekend. Like that's, it works for us, it doesn't work for everybody else. But you know, there's so much more that we have to be open minded to the idea of the people that are coming up because they may want to work, you know, twelve hour shifts but just do three and a half of them or something like that. Right. They want to work 48 hours but they don't want it.

They want to have three days off, you know, or they want to work seven days in a row and then have five off, stuff like that. Like we have to be much more open minded to, to what the young people are coming in because like I said, otherwise it's, it's going to be mandated down to us and it's going to be, we're going to plan to catch up against the OE's on how they operate.

You know, California is already what, they're getting ready to launch a 36 hours work week as the maximum and then OT over that. So we're 32 hours. Yeah, a four hour workweek and the same. Well I think naturally the market's coming around to an idea like that, but it's got to work now you have the shops and the latest and greatest out there now is promoting a seven day work week. And you know, shift changes and shifts. There are people who don't mind working overnight, people don't mind working three to eleven or the second shift or whatever or working Tuesday through Sunday and having, or Saturday and having Monday, Tuesday off. There's all kinds of ways to operate a business. There's many colors you can choose.

It all depends on what the market is and what your talent will accept. For a lot of us, though, we appreciate our two day weekend off because that's when the world is often, you know, we want to. We want to have fun. I look at your firemen and policemen, they can work a three day workweek or a 40. I forget. I was just speaking with a fireman and his workday is like 36 hours or something like that.

Three twelves?

Yeah, three twelves. And then he's off and then he goes and does side work. So, you know, they can, they can enjoy that. But you can see the trend is more time off. And I look at, and I don't know as a fact what our european brethren will work at, but I'm sure that a lot of that influence is coming from Europe. And the amount of time off that they have, I think it results in productivity. What do we do? How do we do the same numbers and with less time? It's tricky. But I do see it coming as being very important in hiring great talent.

And I think our industry, just based on what it is we do, I know from a standpoint of, like, if I was to, our shop was to market itself at more fleet based, there'd be no way we could have Friday off. They would be pushing us to be open on Saturdays because a lot of those companies, maybe they only do a four week, but then they want that car fixed, a truck, van, whatever, on Friday and Saturday. They expect that. It's like, I need it back by Monday morning. You know, I think with Europe, you know, North America, business industry, whatever is so different, especially in our industry within the industrial, is that we can't go to working, I think, three days a week, you know, unless it's become staggered where, okay, maybe as the employee, you only work three days a week, but you're going to be open six because people need that, you know, time on a Saturday to get the car fixed. You know, I hated going in on Saturdays. It drove me crazy because it was always the workload wasn't there. So it was a compromise that you gave up a weekday when the workload was there and you would make more hours to be there on Saturday.

And then you never got, like, if, okay, if I was there Saturday, you never got Sunday Monday. Because if you sold a job on Saturday, you were coming in on Monday to finish it, right? So it split your weekend up and then before long, it felt like, that month was the longest month of the year.

Yeah.

Because you never got that kind of routine down. If I had two and then I had two, and then I had to. It just split it up. It felt like the month went forever.

I think most of us really enjoy consistency and, you know, with scheduling and everything like that. So the five day has been comfortable. I don't see ourselves changing unless someone comes up, says, hey, I'll work. I'll do 412 or four tens, and just give me three days off. Okay. I would look at that. Could it be a diagnostician? Possibly. You know, that's something that always negotiable, you know, but I think that more time off, especially with the amount of, you know.

Well, let's put this way. How crowded is our head space anymore with all the tech and stuff that we got to learn and then training on top of that? Yeah, that's. That becomes a mental situation where you need that you should have time off. And the last thing I hate, I hate hearing is one of my techs will go and come back on the weekend. What'd you do? How'd you do? I went here. I went there. Well, I worked on my buddy's car in the garage, and I go, what the hell you doing, man? Yeah, you know, tools are for the shop. Don't take them home.

You know, this is where you work. Bring them in. We'll work any way you want with them. You know, we can help them out here, do this, do that, but just don't take your stuff home and work on somebody's head car. It's the last thing you want. It happens.

It's. And it happens. And it's a funny thing because it's like I used to be. And, I mean, I've done it. I've done it when I was, you know, on the lower pay scale at the dealership, and I had a lot of bills, I did it, you know, I didn't do it every weekend. I had a very small clientele, kind of almost like a fleet thing. Like, I worked on everything he had, and it helped out.

Right.

But it sucked like it was, you know, it never. You always wind up having to drive to, like, the napa that's open till just noon on Saturday and get the one thing that you didn't expect or, like, you know, we had to end up up here. It's canadian tire, but you'd have to go to, like, autozone or Riley's, same kind of thing, to try and buy something that, you know, the parts are wrong. It was just. It was always more work than you could have knocked it out on a Monday to Friday thing. And so I don't fault the guys that do side work. I just. I see when people go, well, you're devaluing the industry.

Yeah. In some ways, you really are. You know, because it's like the old analogy, I'll do that for a case of beer. Like, I like beer, but I've never done a job in my life for a case of beer. It's always been, I need cash. I know I can't buy groceries.

Most of the time, it's like, you know, well, we can drink a case of beer while I'm working on your breaks, you know, and that becomes a whole nother situation.

Oh, yeah. And so I don't fault the guys, and, you know, you've probably seen it, too. How many people, Greg, talk about they built their clientele into their business from doing something like that? Like, from side work at, you know.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you see it. I mean, somebody who was, you know, garage based and started off, but if they were legit in their mission is that, hey, that's where they had to start. You know, like anything else. You started out of a garage and boom. Now you're in two bays, three bays for. And you're building. I don't find any fault with that at all.

You know, it's when you continue or you work backward, like, you have two or three bays and then you're the owner and you're doing side work, or you're a partnership and you're taking jobs away from the one partner because you're not making enough in the partnership. Yeah, there's a distraction there, and you, you're just non functioning.

Yeah.

You know, that's the thing that really kills a lot, a lot of owners, I guess. I mean, I projecting here, but I've seen it too many times where partnerships like that will fail immediately or the team gets a whiff of it and then, you know, before you know it, everybody's doing side work and nothing's coming into bay, and everybody goes, okay, well, I guess my toolbox are more important outside the shop than they are here.

Yep. Yeah. And, you know, it's. I always used to read the comments in IATN and other places, and even still now it's happening. The guys are like, I let them bring anything in they want after hours and work on it and, you know, like it. And, you know, it's one thing to say, can I bring mom's car in. But it's another to say I'm bringing in somebody from Facebook marketplace and I'm going to slap some brakes on it. And I just never was really thought that that was the best thing to do.

That's absolute. No, go with me. Moms, dads, kids. Okay. But you need to ask first and you have to clock in or you have to check in and check out. Make sure that you know you are going to be responsible for that. So. And all of your parts that you purchased do not go on my tab.

You buy them separately with your own credit card. You can take, take the discount rate, whatever they give you, but not on my slips.

No implied warranty through you. None.

Zero. Zero.

So how big is your facility right now?

Both run about. Well, the one here in Wilmington is about 5000 square operating space. We have about 1300 that is used for equipment and meeting and we just added 400 for parts and inventory and back end work. Millsboro is about the same. It's just laid out a little differently. It's, it's an old. Well, it was originally an equipment barn that had been converted to five service bayshe and so we now operate out of that. We have.

Each wing contains two 9000 pound lifts plus space. We don't have a lot of height in those, but the sender lane is where our alignment rack and heavy duty rack is. And we are able to do, of course, alignments anywhere we can lift a 450. We don't really go after that work.

Mm hmm.

Um, but yeah, it's uh, they're about the same in total, total space, just that I have more room in Millsborough. I got three quarters of an acre to park and maneuver in Wilmington. I'm a half, and it's a little tight just cause of configuration, but uh, yeah, they're pretty, they're pretty equal. And my teams are about the same size. I am actually onboarding a young tech here tomorrow in Wilmington. Great. He's a great young man, but I got high hopes for him. He's really cool.

Um, and then down in Millsboro, uh, the following week, I onboard a young tech who um, he's just, he's, he's kind of like in between. Do I want to be a technician or do I want to be a pipe fitter?

Right.

I'm trying to just. Okay, well, look, I got 18 months to work with you because he already told me, says like in about 18 months I may consider moving to Philadelphia to be a pipe fitter. And I know some of the guys in the hall in Philly and all that. And I go, well, it's a good choice either way, but let me see what we can do here. Yeah, great attitude. Because I'm losing the one tech I had, the one young man, Jake, who's a three time cancer survivor, skinny as a stick, and he's slightly deaf from his operations, but this kid is just full of energy. But he's going to go to UTi in July, 1. July.

I think it's what his data. So I'm losing him. I hated that. But, you know, good. He'll come back much better for it. And I'm waiting on a diagnostician from the Wilmington area who's got tons of experience. His. His sister is unfortunately going through some bad times with her health.

So he called me, which was really cool. We had like a two hour interview. And this dude is like rock solid, man. I mean, he's. He fits. He fits me like a glove and a cultural. And he said to me, look, man, I don't turn hours. I go, I get it.

I think he's like 60 or 58, something like that. I go, I'm not hiring you for. I'm not bringing you on for you to turn hours, man. I'm using. I want your brain. And so he's Honda certified, and he said, he called me up, he was supposed to start. And he calls me, he goes, hey, Greg, I don't think I can start the date that we wanted to and go, I don't think it might not work out. And I go, hey, Pete.

I go, what do you got? He told me about his sister, and he's very. He's well off enough to leave Millsboro area and come back to Wilmington and take care of a sister. I go, you do what you need to do. I'm holding the spot, you know, because I said, pete, I made. I made an agreement with you, and you and I talked. We fit all over both ethics, sports, the way. The way we do things. And then I onboarded an amazing service advisor who has the skill sets that bring volume in or customer care.

So I'm going to hold out for him, and hopefully by the end of June, we might be able to onboard him, and then I'll be a solid team like I do have, like I have here in Wilmington. So, you know, that's one of the things that a lot of. A lot of techs and even other small businesses don't really even understand is the. Is the effort that it takes to build a team and then groom a team and let that team work and build and mature to the point where you can take yourself out and let that thing go and just manage from here.

Yeah.

And. And everybody get along. I think I've done a good job with it. I'm always trying to, you know, just improve upon it. But that's. That's the big thing that I feel that we don't give ourselves. We don't have patience, either one. We don't have patience.

I don't care what side of coin you're on. There's just no patience.

It's like this industry just does that to people, you know? Like, I used to be so much more ability to focus and be patient, you know, with people or with learning a new task or something like that. And now if it's not related to a car or fishing, I cannot keep my mind not only interested, but patient enough to take it all in, you know? And it's not a. It's not a case of I don't respect the other person. What they have to say and feel is very important, but it's just this industry makes it. I don't know if it's the 0.1 block that we get trained to think on or what, but it's just like, time is just an enemy now to me. You know, I keep looking at it, and it's like, I should have had that done by now, you know? Right. Or this shouldn't take this long, or, oh, my God, I talked to this person for ten minutes, you know, before I would have talked to a stranger for ten minutes. Wouldn't have bothered me at all.

Right. Now it's like, I'm like, okay, what's. What's. What's the end goal here? You know?

Yeah. Well, I think you learned that. I mean, because aren't you trying to expand and grow yourself personally?

Yeah, right. Huge.

So, so the thing that you have to do, the most important thing that everybody in your position, my position, and even I don't care who you are, is learn the word no. If you learn the word no, you can graciously excuse yourself from a lot of situations, and one, you can say no when they come to you, but better, you really know kno w how to avoid being asked to say yes. Make sense?

Yes. No. Totally. So it's. That's something that I wish a lot of people. You know, you just came back from tools. We were just talking about that. And, you know, people make the joke about, Brian Pollock's going to teach a class called the stuff he didn't know, but I wish people like, at some point, I think if we could just have a class that it's like, these are what you say no to, you know, and five key points, and that's it.

And we just hammer that in. Say no to this, say no to this, say no to customer supply parts. But then I think about, like, how varied this industry going back to what we were talking about, the work week and stuff like that. There are exceptions to every rule that we try to make in this industry where people go, it works, and they show you proof that it works, you go, okay, all right. It'd be really tough a. Like, it would be really tough to. Just to say, these are the three things, no matter what business it is, it fits in a nice little cute box. You always say no to.

Well, I think you can with enough proof. But I tend to say it starts with you, the person, your values, and what you want to succeed have to come first. And that gives you an easier time of saying no to the things that you don't want to do. Now, I don't mean you would, you know, if a client calls you up that spends $100,000 a year with you, that you're not going to go down on a Sunday to fix a tire or you're not going to get them out of a jam, that they're on the road stuck, that's a whole. That's an emergency call, and there's nobody in the world that I can think of that would say no to that.

Right.

You know, but the other things that rob you of your personal time, that's the key. And they rob you of your personal time because you really don't have it set in your mind what's more important, and you have to weigh that out. It's, you know, it's difficult. It's not easy because everybody wants to be, you know, involved. I think we're such a. Such a tight community that we always want to hang out with one another.

Yeah.

You know, and we can't do that if we are to be successful in our own avenues, as hard as that is. But you see it all around. I mean, I literally, like I said, I didn't start anything until I was about 40, but then I had my years where, you know, I'm going here, I'm doing that, I'm speaking here and doing this, and all of a sudden I go, wait a minute. I'm watching the other ones. I'm watching your other folks, who we all know that are on the road all the time, they're doing this or doing that. And I'm watching them personally and I'm going, dude, you're overweight, man. Daddy, when did they say, you seen your kids, man? When is this? I'm going, you know what? I ain't doing it.

Not me.

I said, I'm not going to be a road dog. I'll go to the events that I want to and I'll command my time. And also I'm going to ask to be paid.

Yeah.

Because my time is important. If you don't value that proposition, and it could be a dime or a quarter, or you could pay for the room overnight, then you really don't value what I want to bring to the table and you're just having me fill your seats. So if we start to learn that, I think we'll all be better. I know from an owner's position, and I think from a technician's team side, too, because techs have the right to guide the advisors. And I think a smart owner would accept input from technicians saying, hey, what can we work on efficiently? I bring this to the table, this conversation, because right now in Millsboro, we're like a farm team in a sense. I don't take everything in because I don't want my guys to fail. I want them to succeed. So we take in things that we know we can be good at, we can be great at and succeed in the client's eyes and.

And in the business eyes and their eyes. So we limit ourselves and they know it. I tell them, you know, I finally got my lead tech, Matt, who. He's a. He's a machine. He is a freaking machine. And I love this kid. This kid is big and loud and he's just a lot of fun.

But, man, he's got a motor and I have to. And he'll go and he'll find, well, he'll see everything. He'll bring in like a 1993 Ford I beam suspension. And he'll go, I can get that done. I go, no, you can't. No, we don't have time to mess with an I beam, right? We don't have. We're not equipped, oh, I could do it. I could do it.

And I go, no, you have to say no. Finally, he starts saying no to some of the really bad rust buckets that come in. Not because we want to be ignorant, because we have to have the correct space time and tooling to do it. And he's going, I think he'd be proud of me. I go, I am proud of you for saying no. So you know, we can learn. We can all learn the value of no. And you should have a list of.

You should have a list of what you say no to why you say no.

Those project cars just eat profit and time and space up like you wouldn't believe. We just kind of finished one at the show. We didn't finish one at the shop. We had a 1984 Ram B 250 camper van for safety inspection. Right now I'm in Ontario, Canada. The goal is for them to be able to drive it to British Columbia, the west coast, essentially drive it to California, across the country. I have never made that trip in my life in a car. I would not even like, I drive a 2015, and I'd be like, ooh, what should I do to that thing before I get in and try to cross the country on it, right? Like, that's just where my mentality's at.

They are completely like. And so we get all the safety stuff done. I drive it. The other tech drove it first. I'm like, this thing is not really running all that great. Like, it's kind of. It's carbureted, right? It's kind of wanting to feel like the ignition's breaking down. Like it'll shut off and start and give it back to them.

And they don't even make it, you know, 5 miles from the shop, and we're going to find it and bring it back. And you feel for them because it's like nobody really should be trying to necessarily make this a goal as a. Not get in a 1984 in this condition and try to drive it across country.

Yeah.

Unless they've got, you know, piles of money and time, and we don't have either on this particular project. Right. So I understand wherever I. Some of the owners, sometimes it's like they don't want to crush that. That customers call it cuss their dream, you know, but, man, they eat time. Like, sometimes you have to.

I mean, who, if you. If you viewed that, and I'm surprised you didn't mention that control arms that were ripping off of the frame.

Springs in it.

Like, there you go. So what, what, what I have gotten my guys to do, if they see something like that, they alert the counter, and then we decline it. And if it takes that conversation, it takes that conversation because you are doing them no favors. In fact, you probably irritated them more by them breaking down 5 miles instead of 500 miles. 500 miles. At least we got 500 miles out of it. 5 miles.

What do you mean?

They just left the shop? You know, that kind of a thing. But when it comes to reality, we have to. We have to be able to say, look, you're done. And I had a q. I forget what it was. No. Toyota or Lexus G's 470, the small or the bigger suv. You could put a champagne glass on this and not have it vibrate.

You wouldn't. This thing would stay steady. That's how good it ran to. I got it up on the lift. I did a video clip on it on YouTube that I could put my fist through the frame, and this gentleman was. This was his baby. And I go, look, man, you ain't going, I can't work on this. You know, I can't.

I go, one accident broadside and you're really going to get hurt. I go, there might be some people who can redo this frame for you, but I can't work on it. I mean, there's nothing here for me to touch that I'm not going to break or damage. He understood and he. And he did get rid of it. But I think my first year down in Millsborough, which has a really salty environment, you know, you're a marsh and sea and all that. So a lot of people have had problems with moisture and, you know, I think there was like ten cards we had to condemn, and it was just being honest with them, saying, hey, look, I can't. I'm not going to have my team drive your car.

Why should you drive your car? You know, that kind of a thing. So honesty works. And it also comes down to that word no. So, you know, bring that up to your advisors and say, hey, look, man, I can't do this or refuse to test drive something. I mean, that's what my guys will tell me. And I would have to respect that.

It's tough, though, Greg, because in a lot of the dynamics in the shop, when you go up to the owner and you go up to the owner might be the advisor and the owner might be married to the advisor, right? So family dynamic thing of that and a lot of shops. I think that's why there's some hesitation sometimes for some texts to go up and say, I'm going to flat out refuse to do this or really take a hard line and a hard stance at some things, because it's like that person behind the counter is the most invested because it is their business, right? And then you've got the team aspect of it, which is, it's him and her built it. It's really hard to be that person on the outside. I struggle with that sometimes because I mean, I say to my boss, we're going on a rescue mission to try and get this van to bring it back to the shop instead of paying a tow truck bill. And I'm, you know, he's driving and the customer's giving us this whole, they don't even know where they're broke down. So they tell us they're broken down at Parrots Bay, and they're actually broken down at Collins Creek, which is 10 miles the other way. Even on a 30 minutes wild goose chase looking for this customer, we find them, whatever. And I'm driving, and I say to him, I said, rob, you're a much better man than me.

He just kind of laughs because he's like, he knows if the shoe was on the other foot and I was in, the rolls were reversed, I would have, like, not even, you know, I would have been not very professional. I probably would have said, okay, well, the car is safe, you know, the bills paid, what, dude, you like me to do, right? Whereas he's just immediately is like, get in the car, go find them, try to bring it back, you know, helped him out. Great guy that way. And that's why we complement really each other really well. But, I mean, we struggle sometimes with trying to get on the same page and stay on the same page. It is really tough sometimes.

Think of it this way. I mean, if talk to a diabetic that is in risk of losing a limb, and the doctor comes up and says, hey, I can remove your toe and you'll be okay, but if you don't, you're going to lose your leg. And what would you like for me to do? And, you know, of course you're going to take the toe to save the leg, but you have to it just telling people the truth, there's nothing wrong with that. And I think that it's a more honorable situation. Instead of putting them in situations that compromise their safety and their time as much as your time and your safety, I really. And I get it. I get the struggle. I get, you know, but learning to grow out of that, I think you do a much better job for your clients.

And what you may feel you are doing, there's no insult. I think it's just good practice. Like, you would have anybody tell you what you would do if you had a failing limb or you needed this attention medically, or you had a tooth that was bugging you. And there's a million analogies to all this, but I think being honest with your client, showing them the injuries, letting them know how severe it is and why you as a professional are giving your best opinion and welcoming them to go get another opinion, you know, that kind of thing. So again, that's the way I practice.

When, when you kind of touched on about getting this technician that's in his sixties now and he's going to come over. Are you really feeling this, the pinch of the technician shortage or is that kind of.

Oh, yeah, I am in the Millsboro location.

Any of them?

Yeah, Wilmington seems to be okay. I mean, I've got really. My nephew is a great technician at diagnosis competition. He's good. My, my Corey, I would put him as a lead as well. All three could be lead techs. They're exceptional. They're very disciplined.

They're, they're great young men. My son in law leads. He's, he's going, he's actually moving into more of a training. He's going to take both teams and keep them on their training. But in Millsboro and South, yes, there is a gap in talented. And I don't know if it's getting worse or better as the dealers, as in this gentleman's case, they're shedding the brain trusts from the dealerships, which is just. Lucas and I talked about it at ETI, and we presented this case to the audience and we just sort of like, okay, well, you're getting rid of them. We're going to take them in.

You know, I mean, that's. And this is the plan because I may have them for five years. Yeah, but in that five years, you know, and he knows the goal is you're going to share your experiences and train. You're going to put your knowledge downstream to the other guys. There's no question. And he's happy about it.

Yeah.

Right.

So think what he can pour into those younger minds.

Oh, my gosh.

Experience, training, approach on, on, you know, little tricks to that product line. Like I've said it a thousand times, there's no replacement for that. There's so much things that you learn in a dealer that are not in the book and not in the service manual. And the guys that work on the same line, they all know the tricks. And sometimes now we share that, but there's just so many things that we don't even think of little. You know, it's like me with Chrysler, with the guys in the shop, like, there's just, I was showing him a wire diagram and I'm like, see that little three digit number there, that r 85? Yeah. Well, that's a circuit number. Like when you're doing a search, just use it.

Don't even look for, you know, wire color. Just use that number. And he's like, yep, that's so much faster. Yeah, it's just how I was trained. Somebody showed it to me and I'm showing it to them.

Right.

Um, it's the whole. And the dealers around here are doing it, too, where a lot of the senior guys. I was kind of. I wasn't the senior guy, the dealers around here, but I watched one and they kind of drove him out. And it's like you're taking the best tech in the shop and driving him out of here because you think he has an attitude problem. The reality is, is that it's just like, he deserves better than the way he's being treated and you're not going to recognize his value. And, you know, he went on to Honda, jumped product line, and this was just killing it last time I checked.

Yeah.

So.

It'S happening. They're shedding. They're shedding cost, talent, expense, and they're going for the, you know, under 30K maintenance and services and gearing up for whatever they feel is coming down the road. Well, will Ev's and hybrids be the maintenance things or will they have to flip them? I don't say I have a crystal ball, but from my experience at ETI, I made it known that if the manufacturers wish for us to be able to be their representative, then give us the title of authorized centers. You know, let, you know, give us that permission, we'll follow your certification program for to make some models we want to, but give us that authorized title. I mean, traveling through Europe last year, all along the time I'm looking, you know, a shop owner is going to look at another shop. I don't care what country you're in, look for that, right? And you're seeing on the wall, you're seeing the placards on the wall. Authorized center for, you know, Lambeau, Maserati, Fia.

All of the black, all the placards are there, all the symbols and emblems. And I thought to myself, I said, okay, so this is the model that they want. And I get it because, you know, why wouldn't you have, why wouldn't a manufacturer want a solid representative of their brand within the local community, that they can be assured of a concrete, 100% accurate repair from software to whatever brakes, whatever you need, whatever system has to go bad? So, you know, they realize it. They realize, you know, because we can't even use their logo technically, we can't use their logo and any of our advertising. And I think that's, I think that's bullshit. But, you know, because why, why can't I put it on my car and that I could put the dealer's name, like, you know, whoever it is with the badge and I can't put my name with the badge or I can't use your badge. I don't know, it just ticks me off. But they need to come around.

And I firmly believe that if it wasn't for the dealer groups that we would have this much more cozier relationship. They certainly put a wedge. I don't know how long that's going to go because the dynamics of that, of the sales market is changing and I feel that we will have our opportunities in the near future.

So it's funny, though, when you talk about that, how like they say they want, you know, a shop independent of the dealer group to be able to be like a satellite store, I guess you could use that term. But I listen to that and I go, well, if they would just fix their own damn culture at the dealership, they would already have that they wouldn't need, you know what I mean? And I, from talking with so many technicians that I've talked to, it wouldn't be so hard to do, just completely change the culture of how the dealership is, treats their, their staff. And you wouldn't have to be reaching out to an independent shop going, listen, like, we can't, we can't service all of our customers. We need you guys to pick up some slack. And here's some parts of, you know, rebates and, and, you know, we'll let you have all the oe access information software. You know, you, you put your symbol on your shirt and, you know, your size, right? If they would just change the damn culture of the dealer.

Well, I think that in, if I look at from, and I'm not a dealer, I don't, you know, I've never been part of a dealer group or worked for a dealer. But here's my thinking as business. If I had a business to start and I could live off of f and I and sales and selling of parts, would I do that? Or I put up with all the labor aspects that go underneath of service and maintenance. I would take the first, the first one right in, out, boom, boom. I have residual coming in 30,000, 40,000 miles. Hey, can I get you in a new car? Which is what they try to do anyway. But, you know, you could have a successful operation. And I really think that, you know, again, this is me projecting.

What I think the market can do, or will do is that I think dealers will go more towards leaning on their profitability from f and I. And sales, they'll get. They'll get a cut, whether it's virtual or it's an on site sale. That pie can be broken up in many ways. And I firmly believe that, you know, more of the service will be pushed out to the open market. And especially if new cars come in with open warranties or open, you know, like a third party warranty, that kind of a thing. I don't know. In no way do I think that we're never going, we'll ever run out of work.

Yeah, it might be different, but we're going to have work. And, you know, we're all, and I mean, all of us are going to have to change the way we think about what transportation is going to be like and where we're going to fit into it. I'm really big on multimodal transportation situations. Been on a couple of transportation boards, learning how they're building roads, why, where and when, what they want to interject into certain areas. Because that kind of a swat makes you think about, well, where am I going to fit in this and what do I need to do? And in some cases, it, you know, it just opens your eyes to where people above us are not in our normal circles or thinking, but yet it's going to affect us at some point. So, you know, I think being prepared that way has been all, it's been beneficial, if not just for keeping in the back of your mind or learning something new.

So, yeah, I said, I said a long time ago, I think what we'll see dealers become is more like it's just a car lot and there won't necessarily be a service bay. And you'll drive in similar to a trucking agency. Like the trucking, you'll pull in and the rig is, you know, in reduced power, whatever, and you pull in and it's like you'll get into another one that you lease and the company leases, and you go on down the road and you never know what happens to that one. Like, you pick up your bag and you go, because it's just going to be. If they can't, the wait times are so long already that I can't. I'd love to know the numbers on how many people walk in to get an appointment made of or repair done, and then they go just, they walk over to the sales department and make a new deal. And they leave that on trade. That must be Greg.

It must be happening a lot more than it was ten years ago.

I'm sure that because sales are, you know, they're desperate for sales and now they're introducing rebates again. We're not rebates, but they're lowering their prices. They got their sales going on. So, yeah, they need to move the metal. The factory's got to keep turning. And, you know, we're creeping up in age. We're twelve and a half years now, I think, on the average vehicle. And people are now into the I don't want to spend mode because I want to clear out my debt.

So, like I said, we have, we have a decent run coming with us right now or riding with us. When does it end? I think interest rates coming down in the next year may help. I don't know. But people seem to be reinvesting in their vehicles like I've never seen before. You know, our average tickets are higher, our rates are going up. I just think that we, we have a good thing. We have a good thing anytime. Anytime.

I've always felt that, you know, us as an industry, you know, if it rolls, we can fix it, right?

Yeah.

You know, you know, if someone said, well, what do you do if there's no more cars? I said, well, I'll fix bikes. I don't care. Tractors, it doesn't matter. I can fix anything. We were very talented group, our value and a lot of people, I don't think a lot of people really take into consideration what our overall value is to the transportation grid. Seriously, we really do have value. We just don't push that envelope out to the general public and to the legislators in our areas to confirm, hey, look, guys, you know what? If we all collectively would say we're shutting down, there'd be some problems, and we just don't pull that lever for one reason or another, I guess, because we're just as, quote unquote, independent with different ideas and different views. But we really sort of have to recognizing what we truly are to the grid and how important we are.

And with that, I mean, we should make it known to our larger trade groups that represent us. And I explained this actually just yesterday. Yesterday was what, Saturday? Thinking it was Friday. A little bit of a little meeting with Sherry Hamilton and some groups up in PA and even the ETI messaging man. We have got to let people know what we are, who we are and what we do. We just pride on ourselves as I can fix anything. We don't let people know the skills that it takes to fix that problem. And I don't know why or what or how it can change, but we certainly need to do that.

And one of the things Sherry asked me and another shop owner, what would be one thing that would help us get that? And I had to be honest. I looked at every angle, and I said, licensing. I said, licensing will get us an extra $30 to $40 an hour. It'll differentiate the ones who have it to the ones that are in your backyard under a shade tree. And it will leverage us to be a career, something that someone who's looking for a career. I can be a licensed technician. What's. I can be a licensed electrician.

I could be a licensed h vac guy. Right. They all have licenses, and you have to follow rules. But it also, I think it presents a career path, saying, oh, there is a badge I can get. Not an ASC certification that, you know, you can read a book and you can go down and take a test and get it. No disrespect to AseAN, but the bar is not difficult in a sense, and I mean that respectfully. But a license, if you're a licensed technician, a licensed electrician, you have to follow protocols. You're able to work on government vehicle.

You get contracts. I just think that the whole thing would be a lot different, a lot better. That's my opinion. I know there's guys who say, hey, no, we don't want government in our. In our world.

And that's been a popular topic lately because, I mean, up here, I, like, I can't. I can't go to work as a technician if I didn't pass the trade exam.

Right.

If I didn't become licensed.

Right.

So when I. When I talked to so many people down there, I don't think they realized the scale of how many more untrained, uncertified people are actually operating every day, versus up in my corner of the wood. Yeah. We like, even. We have backyard mechanics up here for the most part, their license mechanics that either just retired or they're doing side work. Right, right. We're down in other spots. That person has no training, no protocol, no process that they're forced to follow.

It's whatever they feel is the right way to do the repair, is how it gets done.

Yeah.

It doesn't solve all the problems up here, but you're 100% right. And I don't. It. I don't know if it necessarily brings up the payrol, but it, you know, because the reality is, is like, if you can still go and buy parts to put on the car from anyone with no license, it doesn't necessarily mean that everybody's forced to charge at least $500 to do a brake job. Because if I want to go to the local parts store and buy a set of pads and rotors for $150, they don't ask me who's putting them on. They don't. They don't even care. Sold.

$150 for the brakes. Cool ring, cash registers. So it's, I don't think it necessarily brings up the pay level, but what it does mean is that it's like for that car to be sold to another person, it has to be inspected, certified by a licensed tradesperson. Right. So think about all the car lots that are having really sketchy things being done or doing it. And how do you process that? You can't walk in there. And who do you point the finger at first? Greg, you can't. There's no one there because they're not forced, mandated to do anything to this level of competency by my technician to perform this repair.

I don't know if the government, David, hates it. I think the government is going to mandate it no matter what. I think it's just inevitable. I don't necessarily love the idea that everybody might look at my country's way of doing it in golf. That's the model we want to use. Because I can show you where there's holes that mostly lack of reinforcement. Right. There's a, there's a lot of people right now that are working in the trade that their license has expired.

They didn't, they went to write their final. They couldn't pass. People continue to keep them on because they could do the job like they can turn wrenches. But I think with where we're going with the technology now and the insurance side of things, they're going to force it whether we like it or not.

I think so. And I think that we should do it in house instead of letting it be mandated to us. We have to have a collective group that is in our corner. And I could be wrong here, but as I explained to Sherry and the others, Saturday, is that I think we do not have, we used to have Bob Redding of Asa work the Washington routes. I don't think he's there anymore. I don't know who else is taking that fight to legislatives, especially to Washington and locally here in Delaware. I know that there's no one that is pushing our agenda or an agenda that we wish to have. We can, we're fortunate that we can, we know enough people that we could do it if we want to, but I think it has to start nationally at our larger trade groups, the one that we, you know, look forward to having them represent us.

I could be wrong on all these cases, but I clearly don't hear anything coming from that except for the banter or the chatter of right to repair. Get behind right to repair. Well, that, fine, but there's more to it than just right to repair. Oh, yeah, there's a lot more.

Right to repair is, is information access. Yeah, but who was I speaking with somebody the other day? And I'm like, oh, I was talking about a shop. And it's like, they can make it so that you can access it, but they can put it at such a price level that it isn't worth it.

Right.

And then what do they do? They still have a collusion on the, on the particular repair or the type of technology repair that we want to do, and they've completely complied. And that's what should scare a lot more people is that it's like, you know, the whole thing that went down with Nastif and everybody lost mind and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I get where they're coming from, but, I mean, we're talking peanuts, like small chump change to be able to operate.

Correct.

I realized that a lot of other people was like, well, listen, it's not just about the money. It's about like, maybe I don't qualify.

Well, you don't. Who's. Now, that's not my problem. That you don't qualify. Right. I mean, there may have been things in your past that you did that will not allow you to qualify. That was your personal situation back in any time that you give yourself. But I really, I found that to be really insultive because all the members of Nasdaq, they're longtime colleagues, they've been in this for quite some time.

They've sacrificed personal time and livelihood in order to get us to the table in an equitable manner. Or is everything going to work out? Hell no. But to degrade somebody and to criticize them and call them money, it's all about the money and question their ethics behind this. It's insultive, and I can't stand it because we are here to work together and it's going to take small steps to do that. And they've worked ten years just to get one small step from, again, from my time at ETI, listening to these guys, they are ready they are ready to do things with us that, I mean, we would never have had an invite if it wasn't. I think Dutch and Lucas to go out and say, hey, why don't we bring in some independents? And they say, cool. Well, now the proposal was to bring an independent advisory board into ETI and they're getting ready to go. Well, they've launched their european division so, organization.

So, you know, if we can become part of the conversation instead of just underneath the table, we'll be much better. But you cannot insult, you can't degrade and tear down the people who are trying to make the best effort. And if you think it's about money, man, here's what I tell you. If you got a big mouth and you think that you're the right person, step up, pal. Step in, get yourself, ruin your life, take all the time. Forget all about your, your YouTube and all that other stuff and what you do. Get in the. Get it? Get in the box, man.

Just get in. Shut the hell up and get in the box. And if you can't, then just shut up and go away. I really get pissed. I really do. And sorry for.

No, it's okay.

It really gets me irritated because you're just insulting good people and that's something we're here for.

And it's not, I don't think it's about like people go, well, it's going to cost. I have to incur so many more costs onto my customer. Then if you explain to the customer that, listen, this is about security and the fact that, like, sure, I might be able to get you a key and cut it for $80 right now, that it means that I have to go and do this and it's going to cost you dollar 210. And I know it sucks because it's an old car, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But here's the reality. If this technology wasn't here, somebody could just go and, you know, walk past your car with an antenna, pull number, create a key and steal your car. Now, I understand cars get stolen with guns every day. I get it.

There's car. But what we have going on up here where I am is like two things are happening. People are either walking past, they're screening your. You're. That's not the right word, but you know what I mean. They're.

Yeah, they're lifted.

You steal your car and ends up in a shipping container, or they're kicking in the front door of your house armed and they're taking the keys from you and stealing the car. So, yeah, the car is going to be stolen if they want it bad enough.

Mm hmm.

But the idea that it's like, some guy with some hacked stuff from China can go and steal five cars on a street somewhere, because we have not, as an industry, stepped up and said, no, we need to really put some security features on that technology. To me, it's just laughable because the first thing that the customers look at us is they look at the oe who we, in a way, do represent, because we work on it. We don't make them aware. And they go, I couldn't believe it was so easy to steal my key or my Hyundai. We're supposed to be stewards for the customer. We're supposed to. For the customers that say, this is what is a weak point on your car, this is a strong point. If we don't tell them and wait until it's too late, the car has been stolen, how many more customers would have put their hand up and said, is there something you put my car to make it a little bit harder to steal? Oh, sure.

$300. I'll gladly pay that.

Sure.

Just for the lack of convenience or the loss of convenience.

Right. Or if their insurance company would come to us and go, hey, can you retro this car? Can you do this? Can you help this person out? And they get a discount. They get a good driver's discount. What about a good security discount? You know what I mean? Exactly. There's things that we can do, but we got to be part of the conversation. We have to want to be part of the conversation and get involved with this. We cannot be on the sidelines. And again, we can't tear down our own type.

It's just insane.

It's hard to get so many of us on the same page about any topic, though. We were looking at the safety standards that we have to do up here. Going back to when you safety a car, right. It's very clearly written what passes and what fails. And even, like, we look around the shop, we look at the car, and it's like, well, he failed that. And I go, I'd pass that. You know, it's. It's things like that.

And it's like, why would I. Why would I pass that? Well, because for 20 years, I've been passing that. And then they go and change the standards, right? We are our own worst enemies when it comes to everybody being able to cut and dry on the same page about what is okay and what is not. Oh, I'll machine a rotor. I won't you know, I'll slap pads on old rotor. I won't do that.

I won't do that either.

Always wanting to defend their method, right? As if it should be the only method. And it's like, your method works for you and your customers. Cool story. Like, but we have to be looking at. And it's gonna. It's gonna be offensive to some people. We have to be looking at the people on the forefront, whether we want to admit it or not, they're the leader, and they should be the example that should be trickling down. And, you know, in our industry, I think it's because it goes back to so many of us.

I had to eke and scratch and fight to build what we have. We don't want to look at the person with any kind of respect and go, big deal. They've got four shops. You know, that guy, it's always, well, they rip all their customers up. They mark up parts.

Yeah, boy, that's. That's. That's a bad idea. Marking up parts. You kidding me?

Yeah, I mean, my. I've got so much traction in some of my. With this platform of being. Having those conversations with people where it's like, you know, either I went to the quick lube and I went there for an oil change, and I walked in with an $800 bill, or, you know, my shop owner that I've been taking my car to for five years, all of a sudden I found out is ripping me off because he's charging me more than what I can buy. The par four at autism. Right. Like, those kind of conversations have been so telling about how so many of us are fragmented in the different ways we do everything.

True. Well, you know, I really believe it comes down to what your own economic situation is. Many of us, many of us shop owners can tell you that a lot of service advisors will write, will write from their own pocket. And if they're not feeling wealthy or if they're not feeling comfortable economically, they're going to shortchange the ticket because I can't charge them that much. I can't do that. So a tech comes in and goes, well, where's my hours? Where's my time? And I couldn't do it. I couldn't. I just.

They don't have the money for it. Well, how do you know that, right? You present. You present what the ticket should be in a fair manner and based upon the rates that your shop needs. So I find that everywhere there's empathy that turns into real sympathy, and then, you know, you've lost a ticket or you lost a profit on that, the tech lost hours, those kind of things. But I really think that over the course where we're getting, where I see everything is, you got to remember that driving is a privilege and not a right.

Yep.

And I think that as these safety situations come at us more and more, we're going to have to start to present these cures and the reasons why we need to do this more frequently. And will, will our motorists be happy about it? No, but as you say, if you explain it to them that I'm going to make your car more secure and less susceptible to theft, they'll go, alright, I get that. All right, that's, and I think we just turned the corner a little bit, but that's an evolution of where we're at, right? I mean, we're not fixing, we're not fixing the broken wheel or the stud or the a arm. Now we're updating their software in order for them to be more secure and comfortable riding down the road. So again, it's an evolution of what we are and who we are and where we fit.

How do you, how do you tackle that, an owner, how do you tackle that empathy problem?

You know, I have had a few and I, the way that I do it is I really do look at the numbers and I tell them, I go, look, I'm not here at the counter with you, but I can tell you that your performance metrics aren't equal. Here. I go, why are you, why do you sell in your elr? Is this rate or youre gp? Is this rate versus your partner here, who is, you know, at this scale? And so we get to talking and then, you know, it's, you get talking outside of business and you talk about, hey, are you okay? What's going on in your world? You know, is the car payment being paid? Is the home mortgage being paid? How's the family life look? And then once they start opening, you can, you can put two and two together and you can start seeing all this. That's about the only way I can. I mean, I don't know of any other way of doing it. Besides, if you went by strictly numbers, the person would not be working, you know, with your team. And in some extent, I did have to remove or let, let a guy go. He's got a lot of experience, but he was doing it quite frequently.

And then he was also allowing his friends to come in at a fairly discounted price. And then I go, all right, one plus one equals two. And that means that you're out. So things can't be helped in some instances. But that's the way that I do it. I mean, there's numbers and then there's discussions and that's.

So that's advice for people that are employing advisors. What about from the shop owner standpoint, how do you address them, kind of guide them towards being less empathetic?

Well, you have to be really, really kind of like, clear with this in a sense. But if you explain to them what you are doing with your business and the profits that are there for the business, and it can come down to the point, well, it's you or theme, I mean, to be hardcore about it, and I go, I cannot afford to give you what you wish if you cannot operate under the terms that I have and what this business needs. And that's being a little bit more transparent with the numbers, showing them what they have and hopefully it gets through and they think and they understand why selling out of your pocket or discounts, you know, are harmful. I mean, I just sent my monthly results to my two teams and I showed them and we had a record month in Millsboro. We really blew it out. And our year to date comps on our discounts, and that includes true discounts and warranties and rewards programs. So all that's bundled up. But we had a big jump of like 228%.

And that sounds crazy, but in 23 we had none of that. And then we implemented rewards and it gained, but we still had record months. So I explained to them in the notes and I said, look, guys, let's try to work on the discounts. And, you know, the comebacks and warranties, they're affecting the ELR and they're affecting our discount rate. So we agreed, all right, we're going to start looking at why. Why this discount is there. Did we double the discount? Did you come in with a rewards and then you had a coupon and, you know, whatever. So that's the way we're approaching it, just to make sure that we are on track and we reduce that.

And for me, I think we still ran like about a 10% ratio between what our discounts were versus what our revenue is. And that's fair. I think that's normal. But we'd like to be able to anywhere from five to 8% in that zone. So it takes. Talk again, transparency, talking, letting your team know, you know, don't put yourself on an island. And, you know, even though my name is on the buildings, that don't mean crap. I don't care.

I mean, we're here for numbers, and we're here for everybody to have a good lifestyle, you know? And I'm proud to say that, you know, in. In Wilmington, every guy owns their home, every guy owns their cars. They're all stable. And in Millsboro, I'm growing the team to look for those goals the same way. My advisor is the only one who is married and has his home. The other ones are all young and single, but they're starting to understand the finances, the personal side, and how. And they're making decent wages. You know, they've never made this much money before, which I'm proud to say that, hey, look, that's what we're bringing to the table.

And they see that, and, Jeff, it's like anything else, man. You want to rally underneath it. You want to keep that. That thing going, right? And so they're all. They're pumped, man. They're like, I can't wait for Monday. I mean, really. It really isn't.

It sounds crazy, but it truly is a hell of a dynamic down there. It's fun. It's fun for me.

Yeah. So I sense that.

Yeah, it really is.

Yeah. It's. It's a. It's a lot to build.

Mm hmm.

Right. It takes. It takes dedication, and, you know, it speaks a lot about you for the fact that, like we were just saying before we got on, you were at tools, you know, this week you just came home, and you haven't been home hardly any length of time, and you're already sitting here talking with me about this. And, I mean, I wish that I could get more. More people to understand the effect of what. What going to an event like that is. Because, like you said, none of us are an island, you know, not anymore. Like, you don't have to be.

That's the thing. If you choose to be, you so choose to be. But, I mean, just the. I still shake my head at the amount of people that I meet that don't know about, you know, that never knew about IATN, that don't know about Asaga, don't know about changing the industry, and it's like, why do you want to fight it yourself? You know, why would you not want to latch on to so many people that have been through it?

They've done that.

Yeah. Because it streams on your trip so much faster. You know, it's been. It's been life changing for me to be. Just to get. I've. You know, I haven't gone to a ton of events, but just to be able to go to the first one was like, holy jumping. There's so many other people that think just like, I think, like, they see the potential, you know, it's, it completely changed my life from a negative to a positive.

And I don't, you know, I don't always live at a negative. I never did. It's just, it's a, like, I mean.

You'Re not David Roman.

The most kid.

Dave. Just kidding.

David, the most misunderstood individual in our industry. I know. He is so.

He's great, though.

He is.

He's funny.

But, you know, it was not a case of always wanted to be. It was just there were so many days where it was like you felt like you had no traction, like you made no progress. And then, you know, one little thing happens and you see a little bit of a ray of sunshine and you're like, okay, good, the sun's coming up.

Yeah.

And then to go to an event where you can network with so many people was, was massive. Did you get a, when you were there, who did you get a chance to visit with?

Um, well, the guys from Shopgenie. And actually got two problems solved with, with that. That. So that's going there, of course. Um, you know, uh, Bryce Evans of auto shop, auto service leaders, PJ, a couple shop owners, Keith Katzenhe, uh, Dave from Autel. Uh, kip.

Okay.

Um, my brain fart here. Um, yeah, and, and a host of others. I mean, in my short time, um, oh, Andrew. God. Can't remember Andrew's last name at the moment from fact. Anyway, he stood me up for breakfast. Okay, forget that. I'll take, you know, this case.

But, yeah, it was good. And, you know, for me, when I started off as a shop owner, you know, beating my chest over that vanity number that I talked about earlier, you know, I went to a couple of conferences, and I really got my ass handed to me right away because, you know, you're chirping about the big number and they go, well, what do you, what are you taking home? I go, well, nothing right now, you know, but I'm doing this amount, you know, and I'm really proud of what I did and all that. And you look and you go, well, I really ain't got shit. But anyway, it was funny because that's where you start to say, okay, keep your mouth shut and learn how to make, you know, profit and do the right things. And if you don't go to these conferences, we all have our online forums that we go to, but there's nothing like shaking a hand and making a friend and building a relationship. So sometimes you do have to make the effort to go. I'm fortunate. It was right up to straw.

That's an hour and a half from here. And Brett had persuaded me, because you got to shoot. You got to come up. You got to come up. Okay, Brett, I'll make the exception. Eti Dutch and Lucas and Brian Pollack, they said, you have to go. You have to go. And I go, all right.

And it was just by chance it fell in line with my schedule, and my wife and I made a little vacation out of it before and after, and it was the best decision I've made. I thank those guys all the time about getting me to go because it was such a high level conversation that I was like, wow, I never knew this was going on. And they're the. That's the difference of going and not going, and you don't have to go to every one of them. But being selective, finding out who's going to be there and just getting out and network and seeing some faces all over again, that's what's really cool.

So, yeah, I won't take up any more of your time. It's. I appreciate you coming on. I know you want to probably unpack and see the family and whatnot, but I appreciate you coming on here.

Sure. I love it. Thank you. Thank you for the invite.

I mean, we will have you on again, for sure. It's a great perspective on moving forward, what so much of us, sometimes we even forget we need to do. And I'm blessed.

I profess Jeff, and to everybody else, it's just being human. It really is. There's no other simple term that I can put it as. But if we don't really respect one another, and, you know, what we do for each of us, for us all to succeed, then we'll fail. There's a book out, and I want to make sure I get the title right. So thou shalt prophet and prophet may seem like a dirty word. It's by a rabbi, and it does offer context to what the Torah will do, but more so. More so.

It's a great business book, one that should be understood by everybody, because there are. There are workers that will always remain a worker, and then there are owners, and the two must respect one another in all ways in order for them to succeed. And as he describes everything under, I can't really say a religious context, but he does put parallels to certain verses and certain things in both Torah and other aspects of it. Throughout the book. It's very long. The audio is fantastic because it's his voice, but I've presented it on change the industry a couple of times. I gave it to Dutch. It's a good book.

It's probably one of the best business book that doesn't really seem like it's a business book, more so. But it's from the basis of all the things that this rabbi talks about, and I really recommend it highly. Yeah. So I'll leave with that.

Awesome. I appreciate it. All right, we'll let you go and talk again soon. Thank you very much.

Thanks, Jeff.

Thanks, everybody.

Bye, buddy.

Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and, like, comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASA group and to the changing the industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing ten. Mm. And we'll see you all again next.

Next time.

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