Why Shop Culture Should Matter More Than Money for Technicians | Lisa and Joelle from Promotive

I think people don't spend enough time vetting where they're going and getting to know the employees on the team, because it's not just who the boss is again, it's who you're working with that can make or break your career. I think.

I'm sitting here, ladies and gentlemen, with two awesome ladies. They're Mrs. Lisa Coyle, Mrs. Jolene Pollock from promotive. My family at promotive, big supporters of what we do, and we hadn't wanted to have them on. I kind of. This is the first time I've met them in person. I've never talked to you yet, Jolene.

You and I talked once or. Joel. Excuse me. And I was just like, what if. What. What an interesting little dynamic this is that, like, you two very attractive, you know, tiny little ladies are involved in a business of where you're trying to get guys like myself jobs. So tell me, kind of what promotive, what started it? You and I, Joel, have talked about. You kind of grew up in a shop, right?

Yep.

My dad owned a shop. Grandpa owned a shop.

Yeah, yeah. And you, Lisa?

My parents did not own a shop. Ironically, though, my mom owned an employment agency when I was in elementary school through high school. So, you know, it's kind of interesting that it came full circle. But as much as I would like to tell her that her business inspired this, it didn't.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's the industry that inspired this, for sure.

It's. It's. And so you kind of know from growing up, and we've kind of talked about it, the. What it was like for your dad, like, you're. You're very familiar with that. And then you. You did some parts things for a little while after, you know, before coming here. And.

Yeah, there's a handsome guy at the window. Eh, look at him. That's the guy that put me. He's responsible for all of this. So, yeah, it's him to blame. Like, he. I blame him for everything. And then he blames David.

So, I mean, it's all works, but. So you kind of know what I've been about for a long time, where I started out in trying to improve this.

Yeah. Again, my whole career has been in the industry. Grew up in my dad's shop. Don't ask me how to repair a vehicle, but played on the lifts with my sisters, organized the oil, swapped the floor. At the time my mom was working at the shop. And yeah, even to this day, I was telling my dad a couple years ago, I'm like, you need to get someone else in here and help you. He's not getting any younger and again, just what it would do for his business. And he finally got help in there and he's like, I should have done this years ago.

And I'm like, if only you listened to me, dad. But yeah, I mean, great industry, but again, where there's challenges, there's opportunity and that's what promotive's here for, is to really just try and connect technicians and service advisors and shop, shop owners and try to retain currently the people, the great people in this industry.

And that's the biggest struggle, right? Like, people talk to me all the time as technicians. It's like, how do I know what is a good shop? And I can tell you when you walk in there, it's not just a feel thing, right? It's about, and it's not just about the pay either, guys. Not at all, right? Like it's, it. I'm at the best paying job that I've ever had. But it's not the pay that makes me feel every day excited to go in there, right? It's not, it's not the pay, it's the, it's the opportunities. It's the way that I'm respected and valued. That's, that's key. That's big.

And so when I say to them, I can't really tell you what shops are because I don't know every shop out there. So I refer them to you guys, you know.

Thank you.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's, it's. I mean, that's, there's no better people out there really to do what you guys do. So.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, choosing a job is hard no matter what industry you're in.

Yeah.

And I have lots of young cousins. The oldest one is eight years younger than me, so they're all in their mid-20s, early 30s, you know, my age, clearly 29. Yes, exactly. And I tell them all the time, like, don't choose the company, choose the people. Choose the leader. Who are you working with? And for. Because that will make or break your career. You know, it's, it's really a life move, I think a career change, you know, not just career, but like a job even if you're in the same, you know, niche, you have to choose who you're working with.

And for.

Yeah, it, it's so. Because it's, you know, that old adage like we spend more time with our employers and, and our employees and our coworkers than we ever do with our loved ones as Crazy, as backwards as that can be. I mean, we're spending hours, but you're asleep. I mean, you're asleep. So it's so much of how what shaped me was how I was treated during work. I'm pretty good. I can just put my head down and get the job done. But I didn't realize it at a younger age how much it affected what I did even away from work, how I treated people, how I acted, how I felt.

I lived in my head all the time. And it's. It's tough to. To retrain yourself to not do that. Right. So I tell everybody, like, you got to get it where your. Your work is rewarding, not financially. Stop thinking about that as the first priority.

It's important. Unfortunately, it just sucks, right? Everything is so expensive right now. Cost of living is ridiculous. It's not going to get lower. It doesn't matter who goes into the next election. It's. We're not paying less for anything ever again. It's always going to continue to go up.

But you got to find people that like you gel with you. Click with what makes it for you guys. When you're looking at applicants for how do you. What's your markers on, like clicking what makes you.

I wouldn't say like you can tell on the resume on the click. Right. But once you get a technician or service advisor on the phone, you can really get a lot out of them on what they like to do by asking. I always like to ask, what do you like to do for fun? And you find out like, oh, you know, or what did you do this weekend? Or what are you doing next weekend? I go fishing. I like football. I like this. And we're really close with our shop owners too. You can get that.

You can get that cultural vibe drive is something that we look for, of course. So asking about their accomplishments, you know, professionally, personally, those are some good questions too. But I think you just. You can tell. I don't know. Joel always has said she can read people. I believe that you probably.

Yeah, Yeah, I think, I think the cool thing with promotive is so all of our recruiters have recruiting experience. And at the end of the day, recruiting, you're talking to people, right. No matter what industry. And obviously there's a technical side and learning a certain industry and whatnot. So what promotive does is we're not just talking to a candidate one time or we're not looking at a resume. It's. It's okay. Let's do this pre screen.

Are they a good Fit for the shops that we have in that area. Okay. Then go on to the next phase. And it's. It's multiple touch points and again, like Lisa said, really getting to know them. And then we dive into, you know, the experience piece of it and technical. But at the end of the day, that's why shop owner has final interviewer too, to again build that relationship. Maybe dive more into technical, situational type stuff.

But yeah, it's multiple touch points and really getting to know them as a person.

How long has been promoter been around.

April of officially our first. You know, when we started taking on shops, it was April of last year. So what's it, 16, 17 months?

Pretty new.

Yeah.

Yep.

It started in a conversation in a party bus. Yeah. So that's really the story. You probably went here.

Yeah. Because that's. That was going to be my next thing is like you guys knew each other before. Promotive, I guess kind of kicked briefly. Yeah.

Yeah, very briefly. So I am one of the co founders of 360 Payments. So we do a lot of the auto repair shops processing of their credit card transactions. And Joel was with Napa auto care and 360 and Napa were partners, but I wasn't really involved in that relationship. And then our booths were across from each other. You know, at trade shows, sometimes there's like downtime or like the vendors get let in first. And like, she's probably throwing a ball. I don't remember.

And I was probably like, hey, throw. I'll go run a route for you. I don't know. And we like instantly just became friends. Then she saw my kids on my phone and she's like, they are super cute. I'm like, I know. So she's like complimenting me. I'm like, I really like her.

She's cool. And then, yeah, we were just hanging out and then we were in a party bus. You want to take it from there? Like, I feel like I'm talking a lot.

No, you're good.

And she was asking about 360 and how we started and we hadn't done an exit actually since then. And I'm like, I don't know. It's just like, you just have to think of an idea that there's like a problem out there. And in the repair industry, the problem that we solved at 360 was integrating the payments to the shop software. So that was not a big thing. It still has a lot of way to go, honestly. But we were one of the pioneers, I guess, if you will, that. That did that with textapay.

She's like, how do you come up with this? I'm like, just think of a problem. And she said, oh, it sounds so easy. I'm like, no, like, seriously, what's the number one problem you hear from shop owners every day? Because she talks to them and she's amazing dealing with all their problems. Like, and Call of Duty. Yeah. I'm like, what's the number one problem you hear from them? And she's like, they can't find help. I'm like, okay, so let's.

And that's where we created an apprentice program and all that. Right. So, I mean, everyone for a while. Right. Everyone's kind of doing a little bit of here. And we're not the only recruiting company out there. And it's good. There needs to be more than one one person company doing it.

It takes all of us working together. So. Yeah. So that's kind of where it. Where it all started in the limo. And all it takes is an idea. And again, it. It was.

It was months of just talking through it. Right. It sound like you think of an idea, and there it is. And again, it's. Life changes. I'm like, do I really want to work with this person? Going back to what you said, it's all about who you work with. Just kidding. But so, yeah, I mean, from there, it was just kind of brainstorming, and Lisa's super optimistic and has a ton of great ideas.

And I like to say I'm more of the realist because again, with challenges comes opportunity. And I'm not the negative Nelly. But I was like, okay, yes, but.

Yeah.

Yes, but this is freaking hard.

But in the industry, you were the one with the boots on the ground experience. You've been in the shops and heard them, like, seeing the urgency of the voice of going, I can't find a damn mechanic. Yeah, right. It's a real thing.

Yeah.

And I mean, I've been ranting for a decade. I was telling people 12 years ago, and I wasn't the first. And there was other people in the industry. There's a. Used to be a thing called iatn. It's still around. And they used to talk all the time about there is going to be a shortage.

Yep.

There's no two ifs. When we take it out of high schools, when we, you know, whatever demographic you want to look at, which has changed the traditional family unit of, you know, somebody out there maybe showing you how to change the oil in a car on a Saturday morning or Something like that. When that goes away, it has a direct correlation to what's actually going to be in the industry to pick from. And like this industry so known for. We didn't, we kind of just react instead of proact or, you know, and we're sitting in it now and I'm, I'm very blessed to have things available to me now. I, I, I've not had to use promotive to get my last job, but I mean if going forward, if I needed to, it'd be the first thing that I would reach out to. Now I'm in Canada, so, you know, I don't know how big are you guys in Canada?

Yeah, not, not Canada.

We haven't ventured there yet. But it'll happen.

It's an untapped resource for you.

O. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

You gotta. The dialect's a little different and it could be just like here from province to province, the dialect changes a lot and then the pay is way different from province to promise. It's incredible.

Interesting.

You know, Toronto pays really high. The cost of living is really high.

Yeah, you know, well, that happens in the state, in our neck of the.

River, so we gotta crawl before we walk and walk. You know, we know our states and markets here for the most part and learning more.

So what was some of the initial hurdles that you guys starting the company? Because you've got recruiting background, right?

My mom, I mean I can repeat her voicemail. She had to leave every day because we didn't have like set voicemails. As you know, I am an 80s kid, so we didn't have cell phones in the 90s for at least I didn't but no, I had no recruiting background. Amy, who was one of our partners and is no longer involved with promotive she had recruiting background about 23, 24 years or so. And it was the traditional staffing like for C suite engineers background and bringing it into the automotive space was something we wanted to do is take that, that staffing model, bring it here, which at 360 we've used recruiters before. So I've actually used recruiting companies before. Yeah, I've never done it and I'd say that was a shock to Amy on how different dealing with technicians versus engineers, you know, mechanical engineers or software engineers. Yeah, like all that.

Yeah, we're very different from them.

That was definitely different for her, but for us I don't think it was. I think we kind of were expecting it to be hard because there's nobody in our opinion like doing it where it's like, you know who they are. Like, oh my gosh, where you know, like, like Mitchell for shop software. You've heard of Mitchell. Whether you use them or not, there isn't that Mitchell of the recruiting space.

It's not like there's a Google equivalent out there in the automotive world that people would be loving to go work for. And, and it wouldn't like I wouldn't want to work for them for all the money in the world. That's just not my vibe. Right. It's not my gig. But we don't have that in this industry. You know, we all talk about like somebody has a shop and they build a platform on social media and all of a sudden you see the comments pop. I wish I could work at that shop.

I wish I could work at that shop. Yeah. But the reality is, is like those shops, even with all the glitz and the glamour TV show or whatever, they're not all different than the local shop and how it operates. Right. So your business model would, would apply to. Doesn't matter. You could be trying Gas Monkey Garage in Texas. Right.

Richard Rawlings, you could just as easily staff the tech into his as some shop that nobody else has ever heard of. Something like the shop that your dad has.

And I mean we work with single locations to, you know, 15, 20 locations every, everywhere in between. But the biggest thing, and again continuing to learn and fine tune our ideal customer, it's important to us that we are partnering with the right shops and placing the right techs and service advisors in the right shop.

Yeah.

So with that means good culture, good pay, benefits potentially. So there's, you know what I mean? And utilizing dvi, maybe, maybe being part of a coaching group, attending training, bettering yourself, your employees. So those are our ideal customers.

That's what impressed me when you were talking yesterday. Like we don't necessarily agree to give our, extend our services to just anybody that wants to utilize them. There's a vetting process that goes through because you don't want to put the people into a shop that is not good.

And it doesn't do anyone any good if they're going to leave after a week, a month. Like it's there for the long game.

And that's what I'm all about too is it's like, it's like do I think there's shops out there that I wish didn't exist? Sure. But I've, it's through my networking and coming to know that it's not malice on them, that the reason that they're doing what they've done. They've just always done it that way, and nobody's necessarily guided them to be like, hey, this is how you can do it better for. It says a lot where somebody could just be like, you guys don't say, yep, it's 200 bucks. We'll go find you a technician. Like, it's much more involved than that, you guys.

It's not setting us up or the shop or the tech or whoever for success. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we actually knew that. Right. Like, I'd say, before we started officially, we really knew what we had to look for in our ideal customer profile.

And we learned early on. Right. I mean, I live in Atlanta and Lisa was there. It was month one, and as we're building out what's our ideal customer, we knew, you know, we have a good idea. Because just being in the industry and working with shops for a while and, you know, like, okay, maybe, you know, shops that are doing million dollars or more in revenue, we learned real quickly, just because you're doing million dollars in revenue, that doesn't mean you're a good shop. You could be doing 400, 500,000 and be a million times better than that other shop. So we learned some things early on.

Yeah, what is it? The. So the typical, I'll say, applicant that comes to you guys looking for a technician, what kind of where can you kind of see that they all are similar other than the fact that they're looking for technician? Is there like a. Normally when they're using us, they're at a certain level, a certain size, or does it run the whole gamut?

It's from metro area shops you're talking about, right? So metro areas to rural areas to three bays to six locations and everything in between. And again, shops try it themselves, right? I mean, and then work the job boards and the cost, the time. So, like, we're truly doing. From the active candidates, the passive candidates, writing the job descriptions, the offer letters, we are doing it all. And our biggest ask and our only ask of our shops are that you're responsive when we find somebody good that we feel like is a good fit. Because people don't want to wait and they're going to go work somewhere else. So, yeah, there's. Yeah, it's all over the board.

There's no. There's not a specific rhyme or reason. And it's. Yeah, it's a mixed bag.

Do you hear a lot, Lisa? Like, people say, I've tried, monster. I've tried, you know, and it's not working.

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And I'd say the other thing to add the common denominator is they needed somebody yesterday.

Yes.

Right.

Like, well, because yesterday somebody quit.

Yes.

Not just somebody. Somebody that is that unicorn, rock star that could do it all.

So that sometimes sets us up in an interesting dynamic or relationship when instantly someone comes, they're like let's go, we're ready to get moving. And then they are. The pressure of like finding somebody right away is there when. Yes, sure. We do have a database, we have a bench, if you will. But it's not always just that exact plug and play. Life is about timing.

Yeah.

And you have to make sure that the person that we have in our database, maybe they just took a job three weeks ago, who knows? Or three months ago and now they're happy.

Yeah.

But I'd say that's the other denominator, that they need someone yesterday and then that we're dealing with some like patience.

Challenges and that's the biggest thing. I mean anything in life like being transparent. And every time I talk to a shop potential prospect. Can't stress enough. We, we may find you the right person in a week, it may take three or four months. But like you gotta give us time to find you the right person. We obviously wanna do it as quick as possible but I mean can't level set that enough.

And that's the thing because they're sitting there, I don't wanna say they're drowning but the numbers are not all of a sudden being hit when they, they need to put that person in that place. Right. And, but at the same time, if you're going to make the investment in promotive, it's obviously the other methods have not worked. You're in an area where people won't come to work for you or you're in an area that they don't know you're even there. That was my last job change. I knew his shop was there, but I didn't know he was at the level that he was as a shop owner. In terms of pay, ability, training, culture. I didn't know.

Yeah, right. So he's literally like a neighbor of mine and I'm driving into the city every day to go work for a place that isn't good, doesn't treat me well. And for all intents and purposes the best shop that I've ever worked at is around the corner. It's nuts.

Yeah.

You know, and why is because he's involved in some of the social networks. But like didn't know. And then it's like, why did I not know? Because he's not out there the way I am. Putting himself out there, braggadocious about himself. He's just. To him, he's just running another shop.

Yep.

I think you should bring him one of those jackets.

Yeah, I don't.

Would he wear it?

No, he's. And I don't normally wear this. It's just a situation that is like I made a comment about Jimmy yesterday with that jacket on. I'm like, like, because you have to let him know sometimes when it's like, you are a well dressed man, you should tell him that you're well dressed man. And it's, it's, you know, it's not any creepy thing. It's just a situation. Like somebody said, I appreciate the fact that you have that confidence to put a shiny coat on and walk around a convention center. So we made that comment yesterday and I'm like, maybe it's going to be a lucky coat.

So I borrowed it for today's. We're going to do that roundtable. But my boss would not wear this. He is very much more like me, a jeans and T shirt kind of guy. And I think that's a lot of us. Right. I used to, if I was in this industry, and I still am, saw somebody that was always dressed up, I would immediately think, they don't. They're not me.

They're not like me.

And now I know Lucas. I've known him so long and he, like, he's very good at his. About his appearance and the image that he's portraying and all that kind of stuff. But he's the guy that's had the grease under his fingernail, same as me for a long time. So I try not to judge, you know, that's key with me. I try not to judge people the way I used to. There's been a lot of growth for me. So, you know, it's taken a long, long time.

It's almost 30 years of working for the wrong people. You know that it's key now that it's like I only work for the right people. Like, we talked about a little bit of COVID and it's like when I was off, I had opportunity. There was job offers coming in. I knew I wasn't gonna fit. I knew it. So it's like, I'm gonna stay home and catch a lot of fish and hang out with my dog and walk five miles a day and get some weight off and. And try to get my head Right.

You know, Is that why someone commented on the Post with the down to fish shirt?

Yeah.

Okay.

That's like, people know me for two things. If you want to talk about two things. We'll talk about fishing or we're gonna talk about automotive. That's it. You know, like, we don't talk about anything else or politics. But, I mean, it's like, if we're talking about politics, we'll talk about it face to face. I try not to put it out there, what my thing is, because it alienates people. Right.

Most of the people I meet in this industry, we all seem to be on the same page, but I don't want to make that assumption because somebody that I might. What I learned from the COVID was somebody that I might really respect. The conversation doesn't come up. And then all of a sudden, it does come up, and you're like, yeah, you think that. Really? And then it's like, it's tempting to have the conversation.

And then you're like, jeff, don't judge.

That's right. Rein it in. Judge. Shut up. It doesn't matter. They're not wackle for thinking what they think. They just think different than you. And that was key.

So, you know, my kid likes to fish, and we have a lake house in the Tahoe area, and he's like, mom, let's go on the dock. I'm like, but what if we catch something?

That's the whole point, Mom.

I don't want to, like, I'm like, I just feel bad taking the hooks out of their mouths, and, like, then they, like, are, like, dying, and then they're like, you know.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I like to, like, hold the pole and, like, you know, a beer or a High Noon or something and be out there. But, like, catching the fish terrifies me. I don't want to touch it.

I just noticed you've got the right ear on your left ear.

Oh, that's okay.

No, I doesn't know. It's fine.

It sounds all right.

I actually was just more not wait. Because my wire is on the right, and yours is, too. Oh, yours on the left.

See? That sounds as right.

No, I didn't know that.

I didn't notice it.

You didn't either.

I was just trying to keep the wire away from me so I could be like, you know, I talk with my hands.

It's working.

That's what I can't hear.

Fishing for. For me is like, everything that. And I think it's important right in this Industry that like we go to work and you work, but we don't work to work. This generation, my generation, I don't live to work, I work to live. Right. So everything that I have to go through in my four day week, just key, not five day week. Yeah, that's the other thing. I could go to work somebody now and it'd be way less money if you want to dangle that of it going four day week.

I'm probably four tens.

Yeah, yeah. How to make that work? How do I make that work? Because it's like I want to live those long weekends now where I can fish. And it's just for me, that's such an important activity to be able to decompress. I had this truck that kicked my butt, but I can go out and all of a sudden as soon as that water is under the boat and the line's in the water, I'm forgotten about. And it's like I could do it all weekend and not even think about that truck. And I come in Monday and maybe that truck is still sitting there, but it's okay.

I can't wait till Friday to get back on that boat.

So you got like as a tech, you guys, do you feel most of the time that you just leave work at work, like you're done, like you go home, you're not thinking.

So we talked about it the other night, right? There's some unicorns within this group and we'll call them. You want to call them unicorns or your elites. The people that are like, if you have a problem that needs solving, they're your people, right? They, they don't take, they don't leave it at work. We eat, breathe, sleep, this stuff. We're constantly learning better networking with people. Like, how did you solve that problem? How do you solve this problem? Have you seen this class? Have you seen this course? Or you're going to this event? That's the elite. That's the 1 percentage, the 5% maybe in the industry that take it home with them. But they're not taking the stress home.

They're taking home that fire that burns in them to be the absolute best that they can be.

Yeah.

So I used to take the problems of the job home. Used to. A lot. It cost me. Well, it cost me a relationship. Right. And it was because it was just I was in such a negative head space all the time. It didn't matter how good the day went.

I went and made 16 hours today. And then the next day I'd only go in and make five. And I was a miserable jerk. Now, if you do the math, balance that out, average it out, that's still pretty darn good for the size of the shop and in my workflow. But I could not dwell on the fact that it's like, I only made five.

Yep.

Like, and that's where so many of us live, in that headspace that it's like we're always thinking about yesterday, not thinking about tomorrow. We used to joke, coach K's book.

My high school basketball coach, next play. Yeah, focus on next play, next play.

We always used to say, and that's the same thing, I used to say it for years. They only value you for what, the job that you're doing for them. Now I'll tell a story all the time. It's like, they recruited me or they didn't try to recruit me, they tried to poach me from a dealer in Ottawa. And I had applied for the job, and then I came down and I sat and they tried to offer me the job. And I said, no, I don't think I'm going to fit here. And I went back to Ottawa, or I never left. But I was always like.

Because Kingston was home. And the ad runs again. This should have been a red flag. The ad runs again. Finally, things are getting really tumultuous in Ottawa. And I'm like, piss on this. I'm going home to the family. And I answered the phone and I went down and did the interview and I took the job.

Well, like always, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors. They blew up my butt. And I walked in on the first day. So I'm a technician that I'm like, hey, what are you good at? I do a lot of drivability, a lot of diagnostics, a lot of electrical. Like, I'm the guy in the shop to problem solve. I walked in there and this should have been the red flag. The first job she hands me, the first tower I'll remember. It is a Dodge Charger for rims that have chrome peeling.

The car is a lease about to be returned. They want four brand new rims put on under warranty. And I kind of like me in the way that I was. I kind of picked up the thing and I looked at her and I went, seriously?

Like a candid camera?

Yeah, like it's a joke. And she looked at me deadpan and she went, yup. I went, okay. And I went. And I lost my butt. Because under warranty, that doesn't pay what it would have paid to do. But I did the job. Within about a month.

That shop showed itself to be not what they had promised.

How long were you there?

I lasted nine months. But we came to an impasse very quickly because all of a sudden it's like. So I go in there and it's like, I did that job, and then they start to actually give me the kind of work that I'm supposed to be. And we have a dynamic in the shop where we have this kind of older technician who, for all intents and purposes you might hear the term. And some of us, like, that's a technician that's fed. That's a technician that's fed. Technician that's taken care of.

They're getting the.

Getting the gravy.

Yeah.

And so I was tasked with doing the same thing. He was driving, building electrical diac. Well, I only finished out two weeks doing it. And his numbers went from here. So all of a sudden there's two pigs at the trough, pardon the pun, and his numbers went down. And his boss, the manager, my boss comes to me and he says, we can't keep having you do what you're doing here because his numbers are going down. And I went and I said, seriously, I moved home. I left a job where I was making potential for certainly a lot more money than here.

I'm here because of family. But the money thing was like, if it was going to be pretty close, I was going to take the job. Now you're telling me that you're not going to allow me to do what I'm good at, because he has been in this building so long that it's. The priority is to make sure that he gets his work. And let me be clear, he was no superstar tech. None. It had been a situation, though. He had been there longer than a lot of the furniture.

At one point in the dealership, a union had come through and he crossed the picket line every day. He got all. But when the union finally was settled and the agreements were passed, he still took all the rewards that everybody else that the union brothers had stood out for. He took that. So he's not already a kind of person I necessarily respect. Not that I'm pro union, don't take it as that. But, like, I'm about solidarity. I'm about unification, right? If we all.

It's an army, you know, you want to move, change, move it as a team. He's not a team player. So anyway, going back to it. So they say to me, you're not going to be able to do this anymore. I went, okay. And then I just went to being just treated like another mechanic in the shop. Am I just another mechanic in the shop? Sure. On paper I am.

But I have a skill set at the time that wasn't being utilized. And then once in a while when it was, he would back up and there was stuff he didn't want to do. Here you go.

Yeah.

And I'd be like, away from me. And so it's that kind of dynamic that I bring to these kind of conversations where it's like people think I make it up. I could show you 100 texts that that's happened to that exact scenario. It's an everyday thing in this industry. Right. So I lasted there about nine months. And I have a reputation for being fired. You won't see me quit too many jobs, but I will certainly get myself fired.

And they're like, why do you do that? Well, where I'm from, I know you're looking at me like it doesn't look good on a resume. It's a red flag up. Where I'm from, if you get fired, you get severance pay. If you quit, you don't get severance. That's how the government set it up. One of the good things they did. Right. So anyway, so I become a very not argumentative, but I'm not going to play ball.

Right. If you want to tell me what the game is, I can play the game. But then don't tell me you hired me to pitch and then put me on the bench. We're not going to play ball. I'll go play for someone else. And that's how it is for me. And a lot of us are technicians. That's what's always thinking our head is.

It's like it's not always about the money. Sometimes it's about the respect. And like if I'm sitting on the bench, you don't give me a chance to go swing the bat. Somebody's gonna let me swing the bat somewhere. I might have to go down to a farm league. I'm gonna swing that bat. That's my job. So I didn't last there like a year.

And then I've moved around a lot from since then.

How many shops have you worked at? Dealership shops?

I think it's six dealerships, probably about 10 independent shops now. We're going back on a 30 year career. Yep.

And what's the shortest you were at one place and the longest you've been in a place?

Shortest I've been at one place.

It doesn't have to be exact, like weeks, months.

I have to think now, three months, maybe it might have been the shortest in at one place. And the longest would have been like nine years at the. What I call my key dealership days were nine years in Ottawa.

So you've been fired 15 times.

No, I quit jobs in between there. But it was like. Because when I say I don't get, I don't quit. That's not true. But the goal for me is like, I want you to fire me. I don't want to quit. I've had to quit when it's like I've gone to you and say, the money's not working here. I know what you're paying that guy over there, and I know what I'm getting paid.

And I'm having to do his work over for him or I'm having to do the stuff that he can't do. I don't want necessarily as much as him. I just want a little bit more. And I go, I can't do that. The excuse I still remember is we just start you guys all up with a healthcare plan. There's not the money in the pot to be able to give you the raise. And I'm thinking, cool story. Then.

Okay. And then I thought so that I actively then start to job seek.

Yeah, right.

It's. And now we're. All of us sometimes are actively job seeking without even actively doing it. Right. We leave our resumes up on Monster. We leave our resumes up on. On anywhere. Because it's like we're getting inboxes that are showing us what we're being offered.

Yeah.

And shops hate to think of that. It's not like I'm going and doing interviews. Right. Or was. But so this job, when it came up, it just kind of came up. You know, I was unhappy at the last place I was at, but it was literally like I didn't realize how unhappy they were with me. It was one instance of just pretty much how I talked to one of the bus drivers that he didn't like. And he sits me down, he says, we're going in different places.

It wasn't a case of I didn't fix a car, didn't do the job. It's just like he put it as, like, these bus drivers are key. That's my business. And all I said to the bus driver is, that was really stupid to drive that bus with no coolant in it.

I've heard worse.

Yeah. So. And like, as the way it always seems to provide, there was an inbox email from where I am now, you know, which has been, like, the best opportunity I've ever had.

So was it a personalized one from the shop?

Yep.

Okay. I didn't know if it was just the, like, you'd be a good fit for Bob's audience.

And what scared me was at the time is, like, he already knew who I was from my social media. And I was like, and you still want to hire me? Like, you kind of hear the things that I've talked about for the better part of over 10 years on this industry. You've heard it, and you still want to hire me. Well, okay, that might work.

What did he say in the message that got you, like, interested?

So what he said is, I really need a tech. Right. And then he puts in the dollar amount that he's willing to pay. That was a big jump from the shop that I just left. Substantial jump.

Okay.

So we talk about it sometimes is like, some technicians, you go from one place where it's like, you think you're paid. Okay, maybe you're just paid hourly, and that's. You don't want to work flat rate. And then you think, like, I can make a little bit more money, but I'd have to go work flat rate somewhere.

Yeah.

And maybe you make it a cultural decision in your career that I'm not gonna work flat rate because I've done it. I don't have. I can't believe in that method. So I can't. I won't be successful at it. I've been successful before at it, but it takes everything being right for it to work. When you lose faith in the idea that most places are doing it right, it's not for me. Then I need to show up and know that, like, I'm going to be here Monday to Thursday or Monday to Friday, and I'm going to work this many hours.

I'm going to take home this amount of money, and that's how I can set up my making my mortgage payment, you know, my car payment, all that kind of stuff. That's what technicians need. We need to be able to budget because we suck at money management.

Yeah.

So the red flag is like, God. He's like, my mom, God love her, she's like, you can't keep getting fired from jobs. It's gonna be. And I'm like, oh, Mom, I can. Cause, like, I'm in high demand. So I'm like, put your resume. I'm like, they don't even read it, Mom. I carry it in And I've done the interview and I put the resume down.

They kind of look at the top page and then they get to know you.

Yeah, I think for us, excuse me, for us like again working with both technicians, obviously we'll just stay on the tech side and shop owners is, you know, they're all independently owned and operated for a reason. And I guess my question is if you had one piece of advice for shop owners and technicians and it's a pretty broad question, what would it be to shift shop owners minds with whatever topic or wherever you want to take it? And same on the tech side because again we're people, are people and different and different mindsets and the way you run your business, the way you work on cars, whatever it may be. So what would be your advice to try and continue to bring those mindsets together, if that makes sense.

We talk about this, people want that, that leading cutting edge. I need a really strong diag tech, let's call them, we call them in the industry the unicorn because really are like lots of guys claim they can do diagnosis but to do it effectively inside and day in and day out with almost like the kind of level of success that you want. We're talking 5% in the industry. So if you really want that person, here's what they come with. They're on the spectrum for sure, right? 100% they are on the spectrum. They are quirky, they can be a little temperamental sometimes they can be like ball and go. ADHD is rampant. And then the other thing is they get super uber focused on a certain particular thing they don't like to be.

How much longer is on this? How's it going? My wheels come off the cart when somebody asks me that, is it done yet? You gave me something that didn't even run and now I've got it to actually run. But it's not running right yet. Guess what? No, it isn't frigging done yet. So understand those kind of dynamics of those people when they come in there. That's what you're getting. You're getting somebody that is going to be a little bit of a challenge personality wise some days, right? If you want a technician that's just like I just need hours turned, there's a lot of them. But then it's like a situation of we have to go to the mindset of it's like, okay, I need you to turn some hours for me.

You need to do it right, you.

Need to do it right. And I'm going to put in place all the. To be able to help your efficiency. Right. Help your production. But I need you to be reliable. I need you to be like, when you say you're gonna come into work, I need you to be here. And that's the biggest thing.

When I talk to a lot of shop owners are like, what's the two things you have a hardest time getting? Technicians are like ones that actually want to show up to work because of whatever baby mama drama, you know, whatever. Like some kind of excuse, something going on, and life is real. I get it. And then the other thing is like getting them to tighten all the damn bolts. A lot of them, they forget to do that. Now I contest with a lot of how you pay them determines how many bolts to get in. Because when quality trumps speed from a technician standpoint of what is the priority to get done in the business, less bolts get left loose. When we're always like, go, go, go, go, go.

And I, I know, like, it should take you two hours to do this job. But parts didn't come in and it's 4 o' clock and the customer's showing up here in 10 minutes to pick up the car. Need you to get that done. Okay, okay. Okay. And you're running around. All of a sudden you forget to like, do that final torque on that bolt. Now the car comes back on a tow truck and somebody's mad at somebody else.

And I live by the adage, it's like there's never enough time to do it the first time, but there's always all kinds of time to do it over again. So I tell the shop owners, it's like if you see yourself having to operate in that environment, some of it, when the wheels fall off, the cart is on you. You provide that environment. Right. Too many times you want to point the finger right at the technician and point the finger at the service advisor. Some of it is just like, there's better processes we could put in place to minimize the snags. And you have to do that. That falls on you as the leader.

You're the owner, you're the leader.

So follow up to the unicorn text that you were describing on just their personality and how they operate. What would you recommend to promotive and other technicians that maybe aren't as experienced as far as culture goes? Because take your unicorn hat off.

Yeah, yeah.

Sometimes that's challenging. And that's what, that's why people leave. That's why people get fired. Because again, you've got that, you've got that unicorn. And shop owners don't want to let that go. But also, culture is super important, and we see a lot of that. I mean, I've seen a lot of that in the last 12, 13 years. And it's a real thing and it's a challenge.

And again, at the end of the day, we're all human and people and different.

I tell people now, don't chase the money, right? Chase the culture. Because if you can get in there and it's a good culture and you bring something, the money will improve. It's just an effect. It should. If you bring something to them that they didn't have before, collectively, you're all going to make more money. And then if they're doing the right thing, some of that should trickle down to you. So don't chase the money. Because I did for so many years.

I think it's a nature of a lot of technicians out there is when we're on an incentivized pay plan, you look at it like, how can I make the most amount of money? And this is just reality in life, right? Well, there's a window here where it's like, by this age, you should be financially at this point. I never looked at that shit in my life. I just knew that it was like, when I'm in my 30s, I don't want to still be renting basement apartments for whatever I can find them for. I want to have a place that, like, regardless of what the job does, this is home. I come home to this. This is where my safe, to Lucy, to my safe place. This is where I come home. So that was key, right? So now when we commit to something like that, that helps me go into work every day.

And when I'm having an off day or they're having an off day, it helps me bite my tongue a little bit more because it's like, I could be right and I could throw my hands up and say, f you, I'm done, and roll out. I can't do that. Too many times before my safe place, my home life, my home might become in jeopardy about how do I pay that bill, right? We as technicians, we don't sit around with a bunch of money in the bank for a rainy day. We suck at that kind of stuff. We're terrible at it, right? We are always like, we're. We like technicians, like expensive cars and with technicians, like expensive guns and a lot of fishing gear. If you saw my garage, you would think it was Bass Pro Shops. It's stupid.

Like, you walk in there and there's at one point, right now on the wall, there's 40 fishing rods. 40. You can't fish with more than one rod in your hand at a time. Why the hell do you need 40 fishing rods?

One for the little ones, one for.

The big ones, one's for the sharks.

Tiger woods never won 18 holes with one club in his bag. He might be able to do it, but he didn't do it. So it's just a situation of like, this club is better for doing this to the ball. This club is better for doing that.

Fishing's the same way Lisa calls golf club sticks.

Sticks. Get your stick out of the bag and hit the ball.

Yeah, well, I like hockey. And like, see, there you go. Like, but like, so it's a stick to me. I don't know. Yeah, I played Golden Tea with her yesterday. I'm really good at putting on Golden Tea. You're really good at putting?

I'm like, it's a video game. Don't overthink it.

Just like on the putt, I'm like whacking it. But it goes in the hole. Like. But the other stuff I wasn't saying so good at.

So for me, it's like we like things. Like when I think about the technicians I know that have like a lot of guns in a safe, right? They're into. We're into technology. We're into like fine built things. That's what a lot of us like. We're into fast cars, we're into. So we're not always smart with our money. We're impulse people.

Yeah.

We look at it as. I have it right now. I'm going to get it right now. That's. That's just a human thing. That's just not a tech thing. But traditionally, technicians are terrible with money management.

How important is it? And all the people you've worked with getting paid weekly versus bi weekly. That comes up a lot in our conversation.

Bi weekly. It doesn't seem to really matter. If the money's enough, then I make it work whether it's weekly or biweekly. The thing that technicians look at that I think some shops don't think about is it's like work boots as an example. Work boots are expensive. I've worked for places where it's like they gave you $100 a year boot allowance, Right? That helps. A good pair of work boots doesn't cost hundred bucks. Costs a lot more than 100 bucks.

But if you can, you might pay $300 for a set of work boots that you can Get a year out of now. You got to think about it. If you're somebody like me, that about six months, I can destroy a set of boots. And so that's maybe $400 more a year that I'm paying that somebody else would help me out with a 200 or 100. We split hair sometimes on how much difference they're paying me hour per hour. But at the end of the year, maybe when I can just say, hey, these boots are shot. And I bring them in a receipt, and the next month on my paycheck, there's an allowance for that that helps a lot. Stuff like that is little things that I've worked for shops that, like, they bring a guy in with a transport truck, and he'd fit you and size you, and you walked out of there with a pair of shoes, boots, and you didn't pay a thing.

It's just part of the service that was brought through them.

I think that. I mean, any business, not just shops, like, the employee perks that you don't talk about the invisible paycheck. I think you were talking about it the other day, right?

No, I have another podcast tomorrow. I'm doing it in the title, the Invisible Paycheck. It's basically what we're starting to talk about right here.

Right.

I think those are the things that don't necessarily get people to the job, but keep them in the job and the right employees, again, no matter what industry recognize those things, and it makes them think twice before jumping ship for a dollar an hour or even ten grand a year, whatever the number is. Like, they. They have those intangibles and they're tangible, but they're, like, not showing up on their.

We see it a lot right now with the. The way the shops are approaching getting young people. Like, they're like, I just buy them the tools that they're gonna need. That was such a. Like, 30 years ago when I started. Nobody was buying tools for the young people. It was just expected that you. You took a lot of what I paid you, and you.

You invested. And so you talk about the invisible paycheck. It's the little things, like the joke with technicians. This is another pizza party. But if I can know that every Friday that I went to work, I don't have to pack a lunch or leave because it's just gonna be pizza or something that goes a long way, that maybe I'm not paid, maybe there's a shop around the corner that would pay more an hour. But that knowing that, like, every Friday they're gonna give me some lunch.

I'm gonna 5, 10, 15 bucks a. A day, whatever. Yeah.

And break bread together. That's worth sometimes more than just a couple more bucks an hour. And we forget that sometimes we get super focused and you see it, the texts are like, I'm so sick of eating pizza. And then like, my friend Brian is like, you could feed me pizza every damn day.

Do they give you beer with your pizza though? Because that makes a difference.

Off the record, they might be giving beer to some shops Brian talks about. He went in to do mobile programming at a shop and he gets there and he's like, I don't know if the guy was Canadian like you, he says, but there was a trash can. And he says the crumpled up Molson Canadian cans are running right at the top of the can. And I'm like, I don't know if Uncle Billy ever went to New York or not. Like, that's. It might be. He might be kinfolk to me. Right.

Like, have I drank a bunch of moles in Canadian my life? Sure I have. Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know. You know, it's. It's. That's a portion of atmosphere, you know? Like, I can remember going growing up when it was a typical thing on a Friday afternoon. Lots of shops got the last car done by noon. And then they might sit there and drink a few pints of beer for the afternoon.

Yeah.

You know, I've been in shops over the recent. The last few years. A handful. Right. Like, you know, Friday, like after, like three, four o' clock, and they hang out, have a couple beers after they're done working.

Usually that's where the culture is formed, is not. It's not just the beers. It's the. The fact that you let people lay loose.

Yeah.

Cornhole is something like I highly recommend I would. If I owned a shop, I would have cornhole sets. You can get them for like 200 bucks on. I think the one I go is customcorntoss.com or something. I'm not getting a commission.

I was gonna say, are you not a sponsor?

And we branded them with 360 payments at the time and they're now at my lake house. But, um, though I can't tell you how many games of cornhole we played a grill putting at the shop. I would do that. Like, and just being able to barbecue outside when it's randomly nice out and do that with your team. Like those little things go so far.

From my experience, it sounds like they're gonna need a Lake, shooting range.

Yeah.

Fishing poles, a racetrack.

You want a couple quads where you can race around.

Yeah. And then maybe we'll fix cars at the same time.

Brian Pollack, he'll tell you at his shop, like, there's a quad out back that's used for, like, errands. Wink, wink. Errands. In this wintertime, half the guys come in to work on a snow machine. Like, I don't. You probably. You ever been on a snowmobile?

Yeah, actually. I really like those. They're fun. Like, they're like waverunners, but on snow kind of, right?

Yeah, pretty much. That's where the idea came from. Not for a waverunner or. Excuse me, a snow machine. The waverunner idea came from snow. Yeah. I just assume when, you know, like, you're California that, like.

Yeah. No.

Have you ever been on? Yeah.

First off, I'm a maniac on my wave runner. Like, love my wave runner. It gives me such a thrill. And I'm always like, please don't fall in the. Our lake where I'm at is, like 60 degrees, and I love it, but I'm, like, terrified of falling in and getting soaked.

So as a fisherman, when I. Every time I see one fall off and eat it, I go, yes, because you guys drive me nuts when I'm fishing.

There's good fishing at my lake.

You know where the fish are?

I actually do, but not where the wave runner is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know how to get my boat to that spot. It's not a huge lake, but. I'm just kidding. We don't. Yeah, I get it. I don't like the wake surfers because they cause a lot of waves.

If I'm sitting in my chair in the lake, the waves come and it's cold. So I'm with you for a different reason.

Yeah.

Got some more people. That's Becky.

That's Becky. Yeah. She's great.

Yeah.

She's a lady that has her real. Her thumb right on the pulse of what this industry, how it's evolving and what's going on. She's doing amazing things, so I adore her. She's great. I look at it like you said that invisible paycheck. That thing is such a huge portion of culture. What do you guys struggle with? With the placement of people. What's the biggest obstacle, other than the shortage of people is what seems to be the thing that when somebody gets placed and then it doesn't work out, why does that happen?

Okay, so I was gonna go a different route to the question, well, Take it. No, no. I was thinking, how do we get someone in the shop? Like, what's to place them? And then there's of course the churn or the someone's not happy with the situation on getting them in the shop. I think it goes back to what Joelle talked about, is that communication and partnership between the shop and us. Speed is a big deal. As you mentioned, techs have their options, just like you told your mom. And we have to strike while the iron's hot. And I think a lot of times there's too much time that goes on in between or the shop owners may be a little too picky.

And hey, I appreciate knowing what they like. A person knows what they want, but at the same time we're like, this guy checks 9 out of 10 in the boxes, like, let's get them in. And then they're like, oh, I'm at a trade show or I'm in Canada on vacation or whatever the situation is. So that I'd say is the hardest to get the placement in there from my perspective. And then once they're in, I think the shop owners are disappointed in the expectations that the candidate or we sold the shop on. So example and what the candidate sold.

The shop on too, because we're interviewing them too. Yeah, both ways.

So like an A tech, you know, it's a subjective term. I didn't even know what an ATEC was two years ago, by the way, or that techs had to buy their own tools. I'm still mind blown by that. But yeah, they're an A tech. Great. They pay them as an A tech. They love them. They're like, yeah, this person looks like they're gonna fit the culture, like yada yada.

And they get in there like, well, you know, they're actually really a B tech. So they don't necessarily like not want the person, but at the same time they feel like they're overpaying the person and. And maybe their B tech is getting paid $10 now or less than now. This A tech in quotes here. Right. So I think that's one of the challenges too.

Yeah, I see that happen a lot.

And I don't have an answer for it. Right. Like it's.

So I'll parlay something into that. When you see, I know lots of shops that. It's like for instance, Lucas's shop, one of his techs, he literally had him come down and work for him for like two weeks. What do you think of this? Do you think you're going to be A fit. Do you see that? Where that's like people that are coming to you guys are like, I want to try that. Or does it not really fit on the idea of how promotive is set up?

We have, we have some shops that, you know, may do a half day day working interview. We have another one, we have one going on right now. It's a, it's a two week working interview and then another one where it's a week or two and, and that's initiated by the shop, not candidates asking for that. The challenge with the few shops we're working with that do that, I love it because again, you get to know each other, like try it before you buy it. And on the candidate side, the ones that are currently working only have so much time off and they can't afford to take three days, four days, five days, a week or two. So that's the biggest challenge with the active candidates that are already employed now, the ones that are passive and you know, maybe they do have unlimited time to do that. So that's, that's one of the challenges there. And I would say echoing some of the things that Lisa was saying, a lot of shops have been burned by qualified techs.

A lot of techs have been burned by shops that are always busy and have the work and it's the trust and it's the, you know, or hey, come in, prove yourself after 30, 60, 90 days you'll make this. And a lot of times that happens and other times it doesn't. So we're here trying to be that middleman and encourage candidate and chop to talk and communicate. But at the end of the day, they're not our employees, it's not our business. All we can do is give suggestions and whatnot.

So yeah, it's fun, it's kooky, right? Because, and I've seen it too where it's like sometimes they go and they take the absolute top dollar and they put it out there to somebody and then they get them and they could be worth that top dollar. But not right out of the gate, right? They gotta learn the processes. I saw a shop owner talking about they've got a new hire and it's the processes that they're having, struggling to learn in the business.

Onboarding's important and that's a lot of times we've placed, we're not, not going to get them. All right, yeah, we have, we have had people that one don't show up on day one for the interview.

Or.

Even the start date. And our recruiters call them an hour before. Yeah, I'm on my way. I'm excited. Shop owner calls. Where are they? And we look ourselves in the mirror. What else could we. The only thing we could do different is drive to their house, put their butt in the car, and drive them to work.

So, again, we're all human and operate different ways.

Red flag.

It's. Yeah, yeah. And even. And then, you know, we've had a couple that, you know, after day five, day six, they. They don't like this. The other tech. So they leave. And again, I get all.

Like, there's. There's pros and cons on. On shop side, on tech side, but the. The most challenging thing, like, things in life aren't always easy and perfect and you can't go into a job. And after one or two days, I mean, there's scenarios that would be like that. But you gotta give it a chance. You gotta communicate. Like, communicate.

It could be something silly that you could work out with the lead tech or the service advisor or the owner. Just don't pack up your tools and wheel them out because you got in a little argument over nothing.

Yeah. So you got there and you didn't like that your parking spot was too far from the door.

Yeah.

You know, like, that's all. Should be easily rectified stuff.

Yeah.

And all that important in the big scope. Right.

It's all communication. As long as people are communicating, you could work things out or not work them out and still be on good terms.

I think, like, I see it now, and it's just like I tell them, don't throw the absolute top dollar at them, because if they get in there and all of a sudden they're not worth anything, you can't back it down because that just leaves hard feelings. You might better, like, start them at something that you agree on with a little bit left in your pocket that they're like, they're absolutely killing it here, dude. I didn't expect that you were gonna be. Or gal. I didn't expect that you were gonna be this. Well, here's another two. And all of a sudden that. That's worth, I think, like, a year's worth of, like, good feelings, vibes and culture and personality.

We used to talk about all the time, the honeymoon phase. I've seen lots of the standard RO when you were in a dealership was you were brought in and they gave you really good work. And it's like, you're like, oh, this is so much better than that dump I left. I'm Getting good work. And then they might start to, like, turn it around on you and they don't give you the best jobs. And then all of a sudden it can be. So how you respond to that, excuse me, is a big part of where your success is going to be, right? And everybody goes, why did they do that? Well, if you've worked in the dealership or heavy incentivized shops for a while, they know exactly why that's doing that. It's because they need you to be, like, busy.

And really, they're testing you. But they're also trying to show you that, hey, there's some lean days coming up, but I want you to get, like, some money right now so you don't dwell on that. And more and more people don't go buy 40 fishing poles that don't go and do that. What I tell people is it's like, be prepared. When I'm from tech to tech standpoint, be prepared because it's going to seem like you're going to have. Your first two weeks are going to be amazing. Your first paycheck is going to be awesome. They're not all going to be like that.

And it's not just budgeting for that. It's realizing that it's like, that's the ebb and flow in the dealership. It's just the game they play sucks because we all ultimately just like to come in, I speak for myself and know that this is going to be the least amount I'm going to make, and I have to work with that and everything else on that should be just gravy. When they promise you a, oh, car count coming at our butt, you're gonna turn a bunch of hours.

Have you ever asked when they say, we're busy enough, we've got the car count. Do you ever, as a tech, during an interview, do you ever ask, what's your car count? What does busy mean to you? Like, do you know? Like, and what are those? Like, what. What has to. What do those have to be for a tech to say?

I've never asked, what's your car count? Because for me, I wouldn't know what a good number was. I do understand the ratio a little bit of, like, if you've got 16 techs in the shop, you need to be humping a lot of cars through for everybody to have good hours. Right? Because there's a lot of pigs at the trough now in a smaller place. And they say, this has been a red flag for me. We got a ton of. We got so much work, we can't get it done. We got so many cars we can't get it done. And you're looking at a small facility.

That's a red flag because that normally means that like half the work you're gonna do, maybe it's inspections, maybe it's diag, they're not charging the customer for. That's why they're so bloody busy. Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that it can't work, but you've got to be prepared. Like, you can look at it as like, I'm gonna have 16 cars a day to look at. I'm gonna make, I'll make 16 hours easy. And then you pull in and you do your thing and it's like, okay, so that little thing that you did, we didn't charge her for that little thing you didn't charge him for. And people all the time, shop owners are like, but that's so stupid. They shouldn't be doing that.

Agreed. But it's still such a major problem.

Or like the wiper conversation.

Yeah, the wiper conversation. Right. And everybody laughs at that. It's like, it's only two wiper blades. Like, it should only take you five minutes. First of all, some new wiper blades on new cars suck. The clips are terrible. Yeah.

When everybody had a hook style or pin style, there was only two styles. Yeah. I could shut my eyes and Stevie Wonder could put them on. Now everything is different. So what seems like it should be a two minute job is now most of the time, if you're doing the front and both and the one on the back, it's 10 minutes. Well, if I do eight complimentaries a day and it's 10 minutes, that's 80 minutes. That's 1.2, guys. 1.2 at whatever you're paying me an hour that I donated, guess what? A good pay, it's 50 bucks.

I love my technician repair shop and I'm not getting anything for free. So I need to know what I need to start saying now.

But the chain stores will the chain stores run a promo up where I am every fall. Come in here and get an oil change. We'll give you two free. It could be Michelin brand or Rain X brand wiper blades. Now obviously Michelin don't make wiper blades. You just stick the brand on it. Right. But you've seen these like you from the north country, you understand? So that's the free thing.

And all of a sudden what it does for them is they go, Mrs. Smith is driving her car that wiper's streaky. Oh, I'm way overdue for an oil change. I might as well go there tomorrow. And the technician, they go like, you're gonna put them wiper blades on, and he or she begrudgingly does it for free when that promo is not running. Maybe when Mrs. Smith comes in and says, I need two wiper blades, maybe it pays point two to put them on. So that's always been the.

This industry did it to its text forever for. It's like I can remember, we're going to run a brake promotion, and brakes used to pay 1.5. You're going to do it all for now for one hour flat. We're going to turn around and get the price really low, and we're going to get more people coming in. You're going to have all kinds of cars and you're going to be able to sell all kinds of stuff off of those brake jobs that didn't work. We didn't sell anymore because all of a sudden they were saying yes to anything. They were bringing cars in. It was like they wanted just a cheap brake job.

They wanted just the cheap oil changes. And so as technicians, we have to learn, unfortunately, as crazy as it sounds, technicians like you guys have been talking about the numbers. They have to be better than they ever were about understanding how this business really works. And then that's how you find your place within it. I know now pretty good how this business really runs, what it's about. And I figured out that's what's been able to keep me sane in it. Because if I don't know, I just think it becomes a personal thing. They don't like me.

That's why they're not giving me the work. That's not it. They're not giving you the work because maybe they know that you can't get it done. And that's when you have to have hard talks with yourself. What do I do better to make myself more lucrative to them? I tell every technician, make yourself indispensable to your employer. They're like, what does that mean? It means that, like, they would. If you're not there that day, it has to really. It really affects how they get things done.

You know, it means that if you're like a little bit of a quirky person, you have some mood issues that they accept you and understand and love you because it's like, what you can do for them. Yeah, you have to bring yourself above that. I can take this stress ball and I can throw it out There, and I'm gonna hit a technician right now in the head. That's how this industry used to think it was be able to do. I could go and hire anybody and if they had some toolbox at home, they could bring it in and I could get some work done. We're not living in that late in that life anymore. Yeah, it's crazy, man. It's.

What I've seen in 30 years is so different. So different.

So I think that your advice though, again, goes to any industry. So, like, anybody listening to this could say the same thing to their spouse who might be, you know, a nurse or, you know, H VAC teacher. Like, I think it can go into anything.

What's the advice you give candidates? Like, when you've got a technician that are coming to you and you're like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I need you to help find me a job. What do you say to them? What's the, the key things that you need to, to offer?

I think when we get our recruiters on, you'll get some really good answers from them because they're the ones talking to the candidates every day. But I'm going to put my, like, just CEO, friend, cousin, sister, like, advice hat on. One of my friends told my sister when she was looking for a new job, never run from a job. Run to a job. That resonates with me so much because I think so many people make a career move because they're pissed at their boss. They feel underpaid. Right? Like, they. Now, don't get me wrong, if there's some unethical things happening at a job, I, a hundred percent, like, would say, get out of there.

If you ever feel like your ethics and integrity or anything are questioned, completely different story. But like, when you're emotional or you don't like the co worker or whatever the situation is, like, don't just go take that first job that's gonna pay you more. Like, I think people don't spend enough time vetting where they're going and getting to know the employees on the team. Because it's not just who the boss is again, it's who you're working with that can make or break your career. I think. So I think that like, even, like, my wheels are turning. We talk about these like, wiper blade brake jobs, all this stuff. I'm like, I would start probably like researching what promos that they're running to see what kind of cars are coming in now.

Because I'm like, what kind of text messages am I getting for. From my shop? Because I get them, right. And I ignore them because I'm like, I don't really feel like doing. Like, I'm like a. I'm a different consumer. Right. But yeah, I think that there's not enough research that's done. And to your point, on balancing, like finances, I understand why people are like, let me just get in and like, get whatever offers the highest.

And then maybe that's why they only last two weeks too, is because where they went is their plan B or C and plan A was taking longer. And then plan A comes around two, three, four weeks later and then they're leaving, you know, plan B and then go into the A. Like, so just taking the time is what I would say. Research, like. And it's not Google reviews. No, it is not. Like, Google reviews, I think are important in. For like, I trust them on restaurants because you're.

It's such a transactional business that like, you don't know who the employee or who the customer is that came in. But a shop, like, I don't think I could leave a negative Google review for a shop who like, has my home address, who knows my cars, where, like, all those things. Like, I wouldn't be comfortable with that. So I think you have to like, really do the research behind the scenes and it's not the reviews from an employee standpoint at least.

Yeah. And I know our recruiters. You know, when we're scheduling interviews, we always encourage go in. So we're giving advice right. To techs. And one of the things is, you know, go in, try to schedule it during, during the business hours. Take a look, take a look at the shop. You know, from, Is it clean? How are the, how are the techs getting along? Is it truly busy? What, what are, what kind of jobs are they working on? And just get a feel for the shop.

And again, that's not anything crazy, but that's just again, like those tips and tricks that our recruiters are encouraging candidates to.

I tell everybody if you know somebody working at the shop, because that's a lot of how this happens in this industry. If you already know a technician that works there, you get the skinny on it. That's the best way. If you can't. We used to tell people all the time, if you can't get that, then walk through the shop, shake a few hands, talk to a couple people and ask them, who's the highest paid tech here? Who's the highest grossing, whatever, turning most hours, whatever you want to talk about. And then go find that dude offer, take him to lunch or gallon.

Take him to lunch on top of that too. So most of what I do in my career is sales, right. So I've led sales teams for the last 19 years. So I know I graduated college when I was 20 actually and then went right into the workforce. Like I wanted to make money. Like I was very money driven. It's not who the top person is and we ask that to shops all the time. It's how many people are hitting their numbers and.

And how many are on the team. So in my last role at Velo, that 360 part of we had this 80, at 80 thing. So 80% of our salespeople had to hit 80% of their quota. And I look at Texas, like they kind of have quotas, right? Like it's like not a sales quota, but there's still a quota. It's Right. So how many people are hitting 30 or 40 hours is what I'd be asking. Because like the. Yeah, sure, the top.

You want to know, but how many people are actually.

But it's a. So I know it's a little bit different than you do. Yeah, no, I do, but it's a little bit different here versus like it's same concept but you want to find the top producer for different reasons and then. Oh, because again, if everyone's not hitting their 30, 40 hours, that's not necessarily on the shop either. Who are the people? Like, yeah, so there's. It's so subjective in so many different.

So the top producer, sometimes going back to what we talked about earlier, can be fed and then I don't care to talk to that guy. He is not who. Or she is who. If you're fed, you're not getting it. Honest, I want to be. If I want the most opportunity, it's because they know that like it doesn't matter what I have, I can give it to him and he's going to.

Knock it out of the park.

I know that like when it's been passed around to everybody else and they can't get it, he'll solve it. That's the person I want to be looked at after. Right. That just makes sense. So there certainly is a quota that we all have to hit. And like I've been let go from a shop because we're like, you're just, you're not turning enough hours. And I. My retort back is I can't turn hours on that crap you gave me.

You can't give me wind noises and water leaks under warranty and expect me to make 12 hours a day. And you know, you're doing it. That's a. That's a ploy.

Fire Jeff. And you go, yes, that's right.

Give me that severance. I'm going fishing. And what happens is that we call that they're driving them out, we're taking really good work, and we're not all of a sudden. So that's the red flag of all of a sudden. You used to get steady work, and now when you go to the tower, you go to dispatch and they go, I don't have anything. And then you watch the next guy pull a car in. Yeah, that's just.

Yeah.

They've shown you where all of a sudden you are with them now. It's legit. It could be he could be pulling or she could be pulling a job in that you don't want to do.

Yeah.

But all of a sudden, if you're a drivability guy and you're sitting there on your toolbox with no work, and you see him go and grab the scan tool and you walk over and plug the card, and they just told you there's nothing for you, you better grease those wheels. Cause they're trying to get rid of you.

That's crazy. I'm, like, trying to. I know.

I'm. It happens every day.

No, I know. I'm just, like, thinking about it again. Like, I try to relate everything to all different businesses. I just think we're all have the same challenges in different ways. Right. Like, because we're. We own a company, so it's like we can relate to shop owners in a lot of ways. Like, how is it not, like, around Robin system? Like, you know, the.

This one goes here. Like, I get that. When there's certain strength. Like, this one is a euro. I know. I'm like. I say I get that, but, like, there's. Is there not like a level of fairness in some capacity, skill level?

Like, he was like, if you. Not everyone could diagnose.

Not everybody can do a lot of things. Not only that, but when it's slow. We used to have a sheet. They come out in the morning. February in the auto business sucks. January sucks. So here's 20 technicians. Here's the names.

The first job goes to that name. The second job. So you're way down here on 10. And you might look at the schedule for the day because it's posted on appointments. There's only six appointments. So guess what? Unless somebody breaks down and comes in, you're at 10, you're not getting a job that day. So you could put your hand up and go, okay, I'll come back tomorrow. Because by rights that sheet, we still hadn't should have made it to the bottom.

And I'll still be, I'll keep my spot in line. And they go, you want to go home, go home. But that guarantee that we pay you, you don't get that.

So what do you do?

Well, I don't work for that.

No, I know, but like what, like what are these? What is number 10 on that list?

You organize your tools, you take this.

Phone out, you go to promotive and you say, I'm gonna use the resume helper that you guys have and I'm gonna start shopping me around.

Yeah, yeah. Do you think January and February, because we're big data people, but we're new, right? So we're 17, whatever, 16, 17, 18 months old. So we've only had one January, one February that we've gone through. Do you think there's gonna be people are looking for jobs more during that time or do you think. Yes, you're nodding. Okay.

Because so right now, in every paper back home, in every shop now, they're trying to hire a temporary tire tech because we're gonna get into the snowfire snow tire season and we're gonna like, we're gonna run our tail off doing tires. And I need a person that can hustle and muscle and get them tires done. And in January, when that technician. There's no tires to do because everybody blew their credit card up on Christmas presents and has no money and all that kind of stuff, what do we do with that person? They're sitting there. All of a sudden we have six pigs at the trough and there's this new shiny new pig down there who has not been. Is not one of the people in the accepted. He's the new guy, she's the new girl. Right.

They're not going to look after that person because they're brand new. They've got six pigs that have been through the war. We got to feed them first. It's just nature. So. Yeah, you always see technicians get hired at least up here around in October. By February they're on somewhere else. And it's cycle, just rinse washing.

Yeah. We had again, it's like, because we're so like, we have one month or two months of like historical data. Our summer we crushed like we had tons of placements. Yeah. It was like June, July, like every month's gotten better and better.

That's because everybody's air conditioning system's broken.

Oh.

See, when you're in the business like we are, we know I can tell you what's going to break and when it's going to break and when the customer is going to come in. Right. Springtime customers come in.

I used to put together those promotions with Napa so I could tell you the seasonality and the parts season.

Pothole season in the springtime is awesome. We've run shocks and struts. We run a shock and strut promo. We start selling alignments. We start selling brakes. We take your winter tires off. Oh, your brakes are shot. We sell brakes.

Yeah, Right.

Wintertime used to be going into the fall. We're gonna have tune ups in October so that your car. We're gonna start selling batteries.

Yeah.

In October so that your car will start. We as techs, we all know how this goes.

Yeah.

So when the lean months in January, February, if I'm flat rate. And I wasn't smart because I'm again, I'm a mechanic and we suck at money management. I don't have any money. So I'm sitting there and I have no work and I'm number 10 on the sheet and there's six appointments. If you're not looking after me, and I don't mean a guarantee, I mean, like you're paying me because your marketing doesn't work or you haven't proactively planned for this as a shop owner, guess what? I'm shopping myself around. It's just the reality of it. They all know what's happening. They hope that you don't leave, but they don't do anything year after year to make sure that we don't go through January and February like we did.

Yeah.

We just tell them, you better be smart with your money. I could, as a technician, I could turn around and say, you should be smart with your business.

Yeah.

So I want to thank you guys for being here.

Thank you.

Yeah. I love you both. I appreciate what you guys do for me. I think it's a fantastic partnership. And I mean, I rave about you guys all the time. I think it's so cool what you're doing. Because when I started out 30 years ago, none of this existed. You know, I just shopped it myself around the old way.

Yeah.

And I, you know, I can't thank you enough for what you do.

Yeah. And if people are, you know, made it to the end here, the technicians don't pay us to be clear too.

That's right.

Right. Like, so I'd say when you asked in the very beginning, what did we learn? One thing was that techs have not been quote, unquote, headhunted before. It's a concept that is new to this industry at least, and it does not cost anybody anything to talk to us. And, you know, we're not going to force anybody into a job, just like we wouldn't force a shop into hiring somebody. But it is really, I think, beneficial to have resources out there again, no matter what career anybody's in. So whether someone is listening and wants to call promotive, there's other promotives out there too, like, go talk and know what else is out there. So, yeah. And thank you.

Yeah, Joelle, anything.

I don't know. I think that's a pretty good closer. So I guess I'll just end with, like, go Bills.

Yeah.

Hey. Oh, my God. Thanks, guys.

All right, thanks, Chef.

Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and, like, comment on and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And you, if and please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning. As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASA group and to the Changing the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say, in this industry, you get what you pay for. Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10 millimeter, and we'll see you all again next time. Sam.

Why Shop Culture Should Matter More Than Money for Technicians | Lisa and Joelle from Promotive

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