In Wheel Time Podcast: Your Go-To Automotive Talk Show Jan 15, 2024

Why Your Car Insurance Bill Keeps Growing and the Role of Recycled Parts

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Welcome to another In Wheel Time podcast, a 30 minute mini version of the In Wheel Time car show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11am, central Anywhere, streamed and downloaded to your bedroom, bathroom and automobile around the globe.

It's the In Wheel Time car talk show.

Just ahead, we talked to Divya Sangham from Lending Tree about projected increases in your car insurance.

It's coming, if you haven't had it already.

Plus, we'll get you caught up on the stories making automotive news headlines this week.

Howdy, along with Mike out of this World, mars King, con, round along.

We always need more.

Jeff Zekin, I'm Don Armstrong.

Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday and joining us now.

I don't know where she is.

Where are you located physically in the country, divya?

I'm in New Jersey.

New Jersey.

Right, I'm experiencing some weather issues up there and I think you got more coming, don't you?

Yeah, it's been back to back storms.

We haven't seen any snow yet, but it's definitely been a lot of rain and sea and it's just a mess.

Yeah Well, we're about to get in, welcome to New Jersey.

That's it.

We're about to experience some cold weather here, so I'm wearing my plaited.

What do you call this thing?

Lumberjack, lumberjack?

Yeah, that's it.

Is it a flannel shirt?

It is a flannel Just to get my body ready.

Okay, well, anyway, you don't want to hear about all that, and we want to talk to you about auto insurance increases for 2024.

Yes, apparently it's a thing that actually began last year, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah.

And what are increases looking like across the board?

Pretty much.

So our study basically looks at how much insurance companies are going to raise rates because, hey, we all know the rate hikes are coming and for a lot of us, we may not have done anything differently from 2023 to 2024, but our rates are going to go up.

And the reason why is that your insurance company is raising rates across the board.

For every driver and I'm talking.

All 50 states are seeing rate hikes and the average rate hike that insurance companies are going to get this year is about 12.6%

Yikes Boy, that's pretty heavy duty.

Yeah.

To put it in perspective, this puts 2024's auto insurance rates way above what it was before the pandemic.

I'm talking a 29% increase from 2018.

Holy Toledo.

Is it just because of the cost of everything going up?

Or is it repairs or people getting in more wrecks costing more to actually fix the cars?

What is the real reason behind it?

I mean you've captured most of it right.

The math behind auto insurance is pretty simple.

If the number and the volume of claims go up and the cost of those claims go up, it's going to cost the auto insurance company more money and they're going to pass on that cost to consumers.

But there's also the other part of it and that's risk.

So every insurance company has to take out insurance for themselves in case of any catastrophe that leads to huge claims and other disasters.

But as we know, in the past five to 10 years, what we would consider catastrophes are becoming pretty common.

Climate change means that once in a hundred year, flood events are happening pretty much every two years.

And then the other part of this is risk.

There has been an increase in car thefts.

I mean, we looked at the numbers and we're talking a 700% increase in catalytic converter thefts.

Oh yeah, you know the guy who we go to for our auto repairs.

He was warning us about these stealing sensors from the front of your car.

You know the sensors that help with driver assist and all of the other technologies that your car has that's meant to make your drive safer.

Those sensors are located at the front of your car and they're pretty easy to steal, and so that's the new trend of things getting stolen.

And that's not a quick fix.

That's an expensive piece of equipment that's going to cost you and ultimately the insurer, money.

So all of this is adding up and it's driving up the cost of insurance for every single American.

And, yeah, it's kind of unfair because it is a difficult year.

It's been a difficult few years.

Inflation has been doing a number on us and it seems like car insurance inflation is here to stay.

Well, that's how insurance went up considerably.

And I called them about it and they said the state of Texas insurance board had approved a rate increase across the board due to inflation.

And so so mine went up like 45% just because what the rates went up?

Because of inflation.

What inflation didn't?

Go up 45% well, but the insurance board let it go up that far, and of course, every insurance company is going to take every bit, that's the way it affected my numbers.

So that my cars you know you say that the reason rates are going up because their costs are going up.

But why did we not get any rate flattening or decrease when their costs went down during the pandemic?

Because nobody was driving, accident rates were way lower.

The miles driven were, you know, one tenth of what they were, but, you know, never saw the benefit back to the consumer of them making a higher net profit during that time period.

I would like to correct you there, because there was a rate decrease during the pandemic.

It wasn't a lot, it wasn't like 12%, but it was 2%.

So they did decrease rates and when we were all stuck at home during lockdowns, insurance companies were giving out rebates and refunds, prompted by various state governments, but also because they felt like they wanted to pay it back or pay it forward, and so we did experience some pandemic era discounts.

In fact, auto insurance rates have been fairly flat since 2019.

They dipped in 2020.

And the increases were just like 1% 1.5%

, until we hit 2023, when the rate increase went up to 11.3%

, and then 2024, the anticipated 12.6%

Now, mind you, this is just how much insurance companies are raising rates.

Real rate hikes will be a lot higher because every single driver is different, right, and I think the Census Bureau just published some data which said that rates have gone up 19%.

So it is a very frustrating situation all around.

So let me ask you a question about the parts theft of parts, catalytic converters.

Now you're talking about the sensors on the front In my mind.

Isn't it true that since the insurance companies have started trying to get and use used parts on for repairs to kind of cut down on cost, aren't they kind of driving that?

I mean, if they didn't allow places to buy them and use them, then there wouldn't be necessarily such a big market in my mind.

Well, that's a really interesting question and honestly I wouldn't know, because this was just an anecdote that was shared with me by my auto mechanic.

He was a really nice guy.

We talk a lot about insurance and car repairs and what's going on in this world, but there is no hard data on the theft of these sensors.

But there is data on the catalytic converter theft and you're right, there was a market for selling these parts of cars that you would normally not think would get stolen.

I don't know if it's driven by the insurance companies, but there was definitely a market, because you know the height of the pandemic there was a huge shortage of these parts, and so there was just a lot of demand for it.

Well, I can only imagine it would assume that it would be cheaper to go to a wrecking yard by a used catalytic converter.

Of course you're rolling the dice, you really don't know, yeah, how many miles has it really got on it?

Has it been underwater?

Has it been damaged some way?

So you pay a catalytic converter what $2,000, new out of the box and above.

So you go to the junkyard is like I like to call it and you buy a used one of a car that is exactly like yours.

You cut it off of there and you take it home and you take it to your muffler guy and have him welded in.

It's a roll of the dice whether or not the thing is any good, Right.

But then you take over.

Like where I live we don't have the smog inspections like you have here in Houston.

So how would you ever know if it didn't work, unless it was really causing a problem mechanically?

Well, I was just going to say that the light comes on, it'll turn on a check, but you know what happens over here also affects you, even though you don't have the law over there, right?

No, I agree.

I agree.

And the catalytic converters is kind of what I was talking about, because I've read about these repair shops that are now being authorized to use used parts.

Yeah.

Well, and there's industries built around used parts you know think about the company here in Houston called LKQ like kind and quality, and ultimately what they're doing is they're going out and they're buying auction salvage cars and stripping out the parts they can and selling those component parts out of the salvage cars.

It's just only one aspect of their business, though they do.

they do body panels and right, right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, they, they do the whole car.

It's interesting that you bring that up, because there was a time this is a couple of years ago that I was looking for a used part, and there is a network, a nationwide network, of used parts.

You go you go online and you look, look online and you know that part may be that you're looking for at a salvage yard in Wisconsin and they'll mail it to you.

Yep, and so it's not just the local junkyard.

I used to go to HB Bailey's junkyard down there off a telephone road back decades and decades ago to buy used parts for that old truck that I had, and they had several of those trucks, and so I just stripped them off whatever I needed and, and you know, paid him pennies on the dollar for the stuff.

So what?

What Divya was talking about, about these ADAS, the automatic driver system components that are really just mounted below the front bumper, behind the front fascia.

I mean, all somebody has to do is duck down underneath and some of those components are snapped in.

Yeah, you know you just like taking the light bulb.

Yeah, and there's a connector right there as well, so you can disconnect that and take it and that component used would probably sell for four or $500.

New would be well over $1,000.

What I don't understand is with the car that has a computer in it and you turn the car on and it knows all of those sensors that are around it to be.

Why don't they have that connected to some sort of anti-theft device?

At least blow the horn when somebody disconnects it.

It probably wouldn't be difficult to do.

You know, they could hook it up to on-star as well, and I mean, this is the first I've heard of this being an issue you know, even though she I mean there's no hard data she's talking about but it's not like the catalytic converters that they've been doing it for a while, so somebody may come up and do something like that once they realize there's a problem?

Yeah, or we just informed the public how to steal Well there's that.

Well, let me put it this way I think you know you guys, and you know your audience, are very informed about cars.

You know how to go and shop around for parts.

You probably know who to take it to to fix it or you can fix it yourself.

But I speak for the part of the country that is very car illiterate and I would consider myself more on the side of car illiterate than very car aware.

And if something like that happens to me, I wouldn't know that I can go shop around for a secondhand catalytic converter, I wouldn't know that there is an aftermarket for secondhand car parts.

So I would just take it to my repair guy and go file a police report, go to the insurance company and they will take care of it, because all I'm paying out of my pocket is the deductible, so the insurance company is the one that's going to bear the rest of the cost.

And as a consumer I'm not thinking about how that's going to affect my rates in the future, but it is all adding up and it is affecting our rates.

Yes, well, and I think in your insurance policy most of them now have listed that the insurance carrier can use LKQ parts, and they actually use that phraseology as LKQ, allowing them to use the used parts system to repair your vehicle.

Most of the time.

I think I'd rather have a nice straight body panel that was originally manufactured for the car assembler than go and have a Chinese knockoff, because it fits when the Chinese knockoff doesn't usually fit.

No, no, so I would rather have it.

The adjustments necessary, yeah, exactly.

And I just wanted to bring up another point, because you were talking about how there's an aftermarket for used car parts.

But that tends to be more common with internal combustion engine cars, not so much with electric cars.

Electric cars are still fairly new, so it's really hard for you to find used parts and electric cars are just a lot more expensive to ensure.

There are 23% more expensive to ensure in 2024.

And it's a controversial topic, but all three Tesla models that are currently popular in the market are the three most expensive EVs to ensure.

Oh, wow, I didn't realize that that's good information.

I did not know that.

Where do we talk to Buzz next time?

Are we even talking to Buzz?

anymore.

I don't know.

I don't know either.

Yeah, we're working on that, oh no.

So the additional expense for the Teslas is that because of all the technology and what it costs to fix the computer screens and everything, 100%.

It's because of the technology and they run on batteries, and I've been reading a lot of stories and hearing anecdotes about how, when a car gets into a crash, an EV and the battery cover gets scratched or the battery gets slightly dinged it's too expensive to repair that.

Insurance companies are just totaling these vehicles because they don't see there's any value in replacing a battery that might set them back 10, 15 grand.

At least 10 or 15 grand.

Some of these battery packs are well north of $20,000.

But I also think there's a liability concern someplace down the road.

If something happens and somebody finds out well, you left a battery in there that's cracked, a housing is cracked or something like that then there's the liability issue.

And then when the manufacturer says in their documentation that any damage to the battery requires replacement, which Tesla does, that now that forces the insurance carrier to replace that battery as well, at whatever their cost is To replace the battery, yikes.

And you cannot take your Tesla to your guy down the road.

They need to be fixed by authorized Tesla approved to repair shops.

So that increases the cost.

But then there's also the other aspect.

Right, a lot of insurers are seeing Tesla drivers is slightly more risky.

We did another report and I can send this to you.

It's a fun one which looks at the car makes car brands whose drivers get into the most accidents and, no surprises, tesla was number one.

Oh my god, do you think some of that's driven by their automated driving systems, or just?

Personally, I think it is because I've driven in a friend's.

I was a passenger in a friend's Tesla and I got this feeling that she was so trusting of the self-driving and the technology built into the car that she wasn't really checking her blind spots and turning.

That was the last time I got into that.

I said I would rather walk.

Are you still speaking to her?

Do you want to name names?

I still talk to her.

She's a lovely lady, but I said I'm not getting in the car with you, I would rather walk.

There's a point to that.

I've seen them on the road.

I think it's because there's no noise and you've got all that torque, you just fly.

My boss, the owner of the company, has one.

I've ridden with him and, like you, it's a little scary.

He doesn't use the automated functions, he's just got a lead foot and that's how it is Yee-haw, yeah, and he just and I don't know what you've heard, but New Jersey drivers can be a little crazy, so you really want to have all of your senses on the road and not trust your car to avoid other crazy drivers.

So, Devia, what is the bottom line on this insurance rate stuff?

I mean, is there a place that we can go that basically compares the top tier insurance companies with each other?

Do we buy some cheap insurance and then find out after we get into a bad wreck that they're not going to cover it?

How do we go about that?

So here's the thing, right, of course, you can go read our report.

Just go on Google and search for state of auto insurance 2024 value, penguin and ours will be the first results.

But the second thing you should and I recommend everyone do this is call up your agent or your insurance company and ask them number one, what your policy covers, what its limits are, because I understand look, people like us.

We're familiar with the documentation, we know what the language is, but that isn't the case for a lot of people.

So if you're reading your insurance policy and something isn't clear to you, you don't know what that means.

Call your insurance company and ask them what it means, number one.

Number two shop around.

We did a survey at the end of 2023.

And we asked people are you shopping around?

Because it seems very critical this year and last year to shop around, given all the Radek hikes.

No-transcript Like 69% of American shop around.

So there's still a section of people who aren't shopping around for rates and what we found is, if you shop around, you're going to save.

The average saving was actually slightly higher than the rate hikes for many people.

Oh, wow.

That might not be the case for everyone, especially if you're on top of your insurance and you're checking it and you're shopping around all the time.

You may not get as big of a saving, but for a lot of people who have stayed with their insurance company for years and then they're seeing their rates go up 45%, 50%, like what you brought up it definitely makes sense to shop around.

Don't accept it.

As you know, this is a bad year.

I have to pay more out of pocket.

There's definitely offers.

So what you're saying is spend about five minutes with your insurance agent and say, hey, what's up.

Yeah, what's up?

Ask them what's going on.

Ask them hey, you've raised my rate so much.

Is there a discount I can get?

Can I put a telematics device in my car?

I know I'm a safe driver.

I think I can qualify for that discount, you know.

Can I get a bundling discount?

Hey, my teenager got good grades.

Can you give us a good grades discount on the back of that?

Like there's so many discounts out there that aren't very readily known, so call them up and ask about discounts and just keep pushing.

Not only that, but age seniors get a different rate.

Yeah, yeah, mike goes up even higher.

Yeah, it starts going up, divya it's always great to talk to you.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

We really appreciate you and it's great to see you again, and best of luck to you in 2024.

And hopefully we'll talk to you again later this year.

I look forward to it and happy new year you guys, and happy new year to all of your listeners.

Same to you, thanks.

I'll talk to you soon, thank you everyone, divya Sangham with Lending Tree.

Very, very good information.

What good information.

Value Penguin, value Penguin that's two interviews we've had with people who make me feel smarter.

Yeah, well, that made me smarter, excuse me, yeah wake up.

Yeah, because I'm not.

We've got an interview coming up in the next segment of our show with Dohawk Racing.

Oh, Uh-huh, that I think that you're going to really enjoy.

They look like a fun bunch.

Laura's College Racing Club sponsored by RFA Engineering Dohawk Racing.

We're going to talk to JJ, Cam, Jacob and Jake if they can get there in their snowmobile.

Is that like Larry, daryl and Daryl?

Do we cheat or how?

That's exactly right.

Some of the stories making headlines this week.

First of all, let's do some recalls, shall we Okay?

Driver seat airbag improperly mounted on the Audi Q7, Q8, RSQ8, SQ7 and SQ8 23 and 24 model years.

Insufficient illumination from low beams on the BMW R18B, R18 and R18 Transcontinental.

R18.

I don't know what that is, but what I really oh, it's a.

BMW.

It means people don't ever use their blinkers.

Is that what it means?

That's probably right.

I'm trying to put a picture of the R18.

There's a pedestrian warning sound malfunction on the BMW Get out of the way.

I guess it's an I5 or an I5 M60 for 2024.

Yeah Me, me.

Thud thud, axle spindles may fracture in the Volvo VNL.

That's a truck.

Ah, I just saw that.

Volvo Trucks North America.

So forget that one.

I just Unless it's Don't have it fixed.

Excuse me, unless it's driving next to your behind you, yeah.

So we've mentioned this before, mentioned it again because now it's on the national recall list Ford F-150 for 21 to 23 model years.

Rear axle hub bolt may break.

Wow Oops, Only once.

That's it as you go, spitting off off the highway and into the ditch.

Tesla's lower driving range estimates across its lineup of electric vehicles as a new US government vehicle testing regulation takes effect, with the goal of ensuring that automakers accurately reflect real world performance.

This from Automotive News.

Tesla has historically issued range estimates that overstate what its cars can deliver, prompting widespread complaints from customers.

According to some automotive testing experts and a Reuters investigation last year.

Reuters reported in July that the automaker, about a decade ago, rigged the algorithm that controls in-dash range estimates in Tesla vehicles to give rosy projections of how far owners can drive before needing to recharge.

Sounds like a scandal.

The story also found the automaker created a secret team in 2022 to suppress thousands of driving range complaints and cancel owners' range related service appointments.

Tesla's website now estimates the range of a model Y long range, for instance, at 310 miles, while the government's fuel economy site, maintained by the Environmental Protection Agency, still lists the same vehicles range at 330 miles For the performance variant of the model Y a small crossover from 303 miles to 285 miles.

The Reuters review showed, and then Elon buys Twitter and suppresses the news even further.

Well, I hadn't thought about that.

No, I don't think he would.

No.

He doesn't care about that source.

He wants to get in there.

Yeah, he wants to go to the sun.

Look what night you got to go at night.

You got to go at night, that's right, fisker.

Thank you, AOC.

You know, fisker is trying to be a high-end automobile manufacturer.

They are with the price.

Fisker is abandoning its plan to deliver vehicles directly to its customers and will transition to franchise dealerships starting this year.

Company already announced its intention to sign 50 dealers by mid-year, but that's just the start of the move that will take the electric vehicle startup out of the vehicle distribution and service business, like Tesla.

Tesla Fisker said he will attend the National Automobile Dealers Association Convention next month and personally make the pitch to dealers to sell Ocean, the Ocean crossover.

He said that franchise dealers will also I agree with you Get future products currently under development, including a small thirty thousand dollar EV called the pair and the Alaska, an electric midsize pickup truck.

So is it Bonnie?

His Bonnie lies over the ocean.

It was one of the first solar vehicles, back in the day when they had all the the panels on the roof.

Yeah, and, and went out of business and finally, new vehicle inventory in the US rose by more than 200,000 200,000 in December and started January half again as large as it was a year earlier, the highest in three years, according to Cox Automotive.

Cox said vehicle inventory stood at 2.7

million and its latest estimate representing a 71 day supply, which is a lot, yeah, and up from its estimated 2.5

million a month earlier.

It Cox said new vehicle inventories had recovered a year earlier in about 1.8

million, as the industry slowly regain production from 2021's component shortages and Part of the reason.

I read, after that story was published by automotive news, that the problem now is coming up where people aren't buying new cars because they can't afford them, because Because they have raised the prices of these new cars tremendously, and that's why I was Talking to Mars there a minute ago about the price of that vehicle that he was reviewing, and it starts at 29.

Go, try to find one.

That's actually 29 entry level.

You're not well, it's.

It's the cost of the car, the price of the car, the cost of insurance that we just learned from Divya as well as the cost of Financing, because you're looking at a lot of car financing now is pushing 10% about six and a half to nine.

Right now I was at a meeting that we was held at the four dealership down there in 59 and, talking to the dealer principal, patrick Saxton, he said that prices, monthly payments, are in the $1,500 range on an F 150.

Wow, are you talking?

and that's 70 to $90,000 truck, hundred thousand dollar truck, yeah, so yeah.

And and then plus insurance, insurance, fuel, whether they had plug it into the wall or you go to the gas station and fill it up.

You're looking at seven, eight years financing.

But the high Inventory level 71 days is going to push manufacturers to more incentives.

Yes, it will but that always happens, that balance of inventory levels and incentives.

As the inventory levels get higher, the main incentives too as well.

Hey, it's time take a break here on the in wheel time car talk show.

We've got more coming up.

Stay with us.

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That's it for this podcast episode of the in wheel time car show.

I'm Don Armstrong, inviting you to join us for our live show every Saturday morning 8 to 11 am Central on Facebook, youtube, twitch and our in wheel time comm website.

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About this episode

Car insurance rates are set to rise significantly in 2024, with an average increase of 12.6% nationwide. Divya Sangham from Lending Tree discusses the factors driving these hikes, including rising repair costs, increased claims, and a surge in car thefts, particularly catalytic converters and advanced driver-assistance system sensors. The conversation also touches on the use of recycled parts in repairs and the challenges faced by electric vehicle owners regarding insurance costs. Listeners will gain insights into how to navigate these changes and potentially save on their insurance premiums.

Audi Q7 Audi SQ7 Ford F-150 Tesla Model Y

Original notes

Join us as we peel back the layers on the ballooning costs of car insurance with Divya Sangam from Lending Tree. With an eye-opening average rate increase of 12.6% sweeping the nation, we uncover some of the factors driving this inflation—from escalating claim costs and the impact of climate disasters to the spike in catalytic converter thefts. You'll learn why the expected pandemic savings never materialized in consumers' wallets and how state insurance boards are entangled with inflation in greenlighting these rate hikes. It's a deep dive into the financial squeeze on American drivers, and a look at an industry grappling with change.

We shift into the world of used auto parts, weighing the savings against the risks. We scrutinize whether a second-hand catalytic converter or an ADAS unit is a gamble worth taking, and discuss how companies like LKQ are transforming the market. But what does this mean for your insurance policy? We dissect the relationship between aftermarket parts, potential theft, and the premiums you pay. And as we round the final corner, we'll glance at the latest in automotive news, from a slew of recalls to Tesla's driving range adjustments, Fisker's new sales approach, and the current swell in new car inventories.

Be sure to subscribe for more In Wheel Time Car Talk!

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31:02

Why Your Car Insurance Bill Keeps Growing and the Role of Recycled Parts

Audi Q7

Audi SQ7

Ford F150

Tesla Model Y

About this episode

Original notes