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Brand
Mark Webber
Mark Webber is mentioned as the person representing Piastri. The point is that he has connections that could matter for a driver moving into Red Bull.
Brand
Red Bull
Red Bull is the racing team in Formula 1. When people talk about a “Red Bull move,” they mean a driver switching into that team and the team’s support system.
Brand
Oscar Piastri
Oscar Piastri is a Formula 1 driver. The hosts are basically asking whether he would be a good match for Red Bull’s team culture and expectations.
Brand
Vettel
Vettel is brought up as an example of a driver style. The hosts are comparing how different drivers act and handle racing and media duties.
Brand
Daniel Ricciardo
Daniel Ricciardo is another Formula 1 driver being used as a comparison. The hosts are saying he doesn’t quite match the same profile as the other Red Bull-linked drivers they’re talking about.
Brand
Max Stappen
Max Verstappen is the key Red Bull driver being referenced. The discussion is about Red Bull needing backup plans if his future becomes uncertain.
Concept
contingency plan
A contingency plan is a backup plan for when things don’t go as expected. Here, it means Red Bull preparing for a possible change involving their top driver.
Brand
Limblard
Limblard is mentioned as another developing driver. The hosts are saying he probably isn’t ready yet for a top Red Bull job.
Brand
Lawson
Lawson is mentioned as a developing driver. The point is that he may not be experienced enough yet to handle a top Red Bull seat.
Concept
championship fight
A championship fight means the season is tight and several drivers are still competing for the title. Drivers who’ve been through that pressure often make better calls when races really matter.
Concept
fourth year in the sport
The speaker is basically saying Piastri is still relatively early in his F1 career. Even after a few seasons, drivers can keep getting better as they learn the job and the cars.
Brand
Max Verstappen
Max Verstappen is one of the best-known F1 drivers in the world. Mentioning him is a way of saying Piastri was competing against top competition.
Brand
Lando Norris
Lando Norris is another leading F1 driver. The hosts are saying Piastri and Norris had a strong, competitive relationship while fighting for the championship.
Brand
McLaren
McLaren is a Formula 1 team. The hosts are talking about a time when McLaren drivers were fighting for the championship and how that affected the team relationship.
Concept
team-driven
In F1, “team-driven” implies the outcome or tension between drivers is influenced by team strategy—such as race instructions, pit-wall decisions, or rules for how teammates should cooperate. The hosts are suggesting that some of the controversy wasn’t purely driver-to-driver, but managed by the team.
Term
papaya rules
“Papaya rules” is a nickname for how McLaren tells its drivers what to do when they’re racing each other or fighting for the same points. It’s basically about team strategy and avoiding chaos.
Concept
championship-winning car
A “championship-winning car” is the car that’s good enough to win the biggest F1 prizes in a season. It has to be fast and dependable so the team can score points race after race.
Concept
new regulations
“New regulations” means F1 changes the rules for how cars are built. That can help some teams catch up or even leap forward if they understand the new rules better.
Topic
Miami
Miami is one of the F1 races. People use how teams did there to judge whether a team’s car is improving.
Brand
Ferrari
Ferrari is one of the biggest F1 teams. They’re mentioned because the hosts think other teams may be getting closer to— or passing— Ferrari in the current competitive fight.
Concept
momentum shift
In racing, a “momentum shift” means a team suddenly starts doing much better than before. In F1 it usually happens when the team finds the right upgrades or setup.
Concept
crack the code
“Crack the code” means the team figures out what was holding the car back. Once they do, the car starts working better and results improve.
Concept
package right
“Get the package right” means the whole car and race approach are working well together. It’s not just one upgrade; it’s how everything fits and performs on track.
Brand
Renault
Renault is another Formula 1 team. The hosts mention it to illustrate that switching teams can sometimes lead to poor results, depending on how competitive the car is.
Concept
career crossroads
A “career crossroads” is a major turning point in a driver’s career. In F1, changing teams at the wrong time can hurt results, while the right move can unlock better performance.
Company
Mercedes
Mercedes is another major Formula 1 team. The hosts are pointing out that Mercedes also had a long period where they were clearly the best, similar to Red Bull’s runs.
Concept
team dynamic
In racing, “team dynamic” is about how the two drivers and the team work together. The hosts are saying it matters because if both drivers are fighting for the championship, the team has to manage that competition smoothly.
Term
power unit
A power unit is the car’s main engine system in F1, including the hybrid parts. If it’s “looking good,” it usually means the car should be faster and more competitive.
Concept
domino effect
In F1, there are only a few race seats. If one team makes a big driver change, it often forces other teams to change too, because everyone is connected through available seats.
Concept
2027 lineup predictions
This is basically guessing who will drive for which teams in 2027. People do it by looking at contracts and what teams are likely to want in the future.
Term
drivers' championship
The drivers’ championship is the F1 season race for points between drivers. Every race gives points, so mistakes or penalties can swing the standings.
Term
DQ
DQ stands for disqualification. It means a driver’s race result gets thrown out because of a rules problem, which can cost them (and their rivals) a lot of championship points.
Term
strategy call
A strategy call is the team’s decision about how to handle the race, like when to pit and what tires to run. If the timing is off, it can cost the driver positions and points.
Topic
2021 season
They’re talking about the 2021 F1 season as a particularly exciting year. It’s mentioned to set up the point that rules and team development can change the racing experience.
Term
powertrains
A powertrain is everything that helps the car turn its engine power into movement. In F1, it includes the hybrid system and how that power gets to the wheels.
Company
Christian Horner
Christian Horner is the top leader at Red Bull Racing. The hosts mention him because he was involved when the team started building its own engine package.
Term
chassis
The chassis is the main frame of the F1 car. It affects how the car handles and feels on track, not how strong the engine is.
Term
reliability
Reliability just means the car doesn’t break down. In F1, it’s about finishing sessions and races without major mechanical problems.
Term
pole position
Pole position is the best starting spot in an F1 race. It’s earned in qualifying by being the fastest, and it usually gives a big advantage at the start.
Concept
develop in season
This means the team keeps improving the car during the year. They use what they learn from races to make changes so the car gets better over time.
Term
front row start
A front row start means you begin the race near the front—usually 1st or 2nd on the starting grid. Starting there helps because you’re less likely to get stuck in traffic.
Term
P3
“P3” means third place. In F1, where you finish matters because it determines how many points you get.
Term
P6
“P6” means sixth place. If a driver can’t reach the top positions, sixth is still a strong points finish in F1.
Topic
Hungarian GP
The Hungarian GP is one particular Formula 1 race. The hosts are using it as an example of a weekend where Red Bull didn’t look as strong.
Term
Formula One
Formula One is the highest level of car racing with teams that build and race specialized cars. It’s governed by rules meant to keep the competition fair.
Concept
team-style alliance
They’re talking about teams forming an alliance that could make them less independent. The worry is that it might feel unfair to fans if teams seem to be working together.
Brand
Alpine
Alpine is a Formula One team. The hosts are talking about who owns parts of it and whether outside investment could affect how fair the competition feels.
Company
American Investment Group
American Investment Group is mentioned as the company that currently owns part of Alpine. The concern is that changes in who owns stakes can affect how independent teams really are.
Company
Otro Capital
Otro Capital is the specific investor mentioned as holding a portion of Alpine. The hosts are focusing on ownership stakes and what they might mean for fairness.
Term
sporting fairness
Sporting fairness means the competition should be decided by racing, not by special advantages. The concern here is that ownership ties could make it feel less fair.
Concept
independent racing teams
They’re saying fans want teams to be genuinely separate from each other. If teams are effectively connected through ownership, it can change how fair and exciting the racing feels.
Term
IP violations
“IP” means intellectual property—secret technical information. “IP violations” means someone may have used or shared that confidential info when they weren’t allowed.
Part
break ducts
Brake ducts are little channels that aim air at the brakes to keep them from overheating. Better cooling can help the brakes work more consistently in fast, repeated stops.
Concept
AB teams
“AB teams” is shorthand for closely connected teams. The concern is that if teams are too closely linked, it might feel unfair if information or people move in ways that break the spirit of the rules.
Brand
Alpha Towery
“Alpha Towery” sounds like a mis-heard “AlphaTauri,” which is the name Red Bull’s junior team used for a period. They’re using the rebrand history to explain why people worry about conflicts.
Concept
development time and updates
This means extra time for engineers to improve the car and bring new upgrades during the season. In racing, more development and more updates usually makes it easier to catch up or stay competitive.
Company
Haas
Haas is a Formula 1 racing team. They’re using Haas as an example to explain how outside help could change how surprising a championship would be.
Concept
collaboration between two teams
Collaboration means teams working together behind the scenes—sharing know-how or support. The speaker’s point is that if teams share a lot, then a big success may not reflect only the smaller team’s independent work.
Term
power when it comes to supplying engines
They’re talking about how the engine supplier can strongly influence how fast a team can be. If teams get engines from the same place, they may start from a similar performance level.
Brand
Racing Bulls
Racing Bulls is a team brand connected to Red Bull. The discussion is about how that team is organized and whether its ownership could change over time.
Concept
Concorde agreement
The Concorde Agreement is a big multi-year contract that governs how Formula 1 teams and the sport’s main organizers work together. It includes things like how money is split and what happens to teams over time.
Concept
divested
Here, “divested” means Red Bull might eventually sell one of its teams to someone else. It’s basically about ownership changing hands.
Brand
Toro Rosso
Toro Rosso was Red Bull’s earlier junior team name in Formula 1. The hosts are using it as a historical example of how Red Bull’s team structure came together.
Brand
Jaguar
Jaguar is mentioned because Red Bull bought it during a period when Red Bull was trying to step away from Formula 1. It’s used as background for how Red Bull’s later team plans formed.
Brand
Monardi
Monardi is brought up as a team that shut down. The host is explaining how that kind of change affected the number of teams in Formula 1.
Concept
grid
In F1, the “grid” is the list of cars lined up to start the race. The host is saying investments helped keep enough teams around so the races had full lineups.
Company
Cadillac
Cadillac is a car brand. Here, they’re mentioned because they’re supplying parts to some F1 teams, and that kind of deal can influence who wants what in the sport.
Company
FIA
The FIA is the organization that sets and enforces many of the rules in motorsport. The segment is saying the decision might come from them, or from F1’s own process.
Term
V8s
V8s are engines with eight cylinders arranged in a V shape. The host is talking about a future plan to use that engine type in F1 cars by 2030.
Concept
untapped market
An “untapped market” means a group of people who could be interested but aren’t being reached much yet. Here, they mean new brands could bring in new fans and money.
Term
sponsorship money
Sponsorship money is when a company pays to have its name and ads tied to a racing team or series. It helps teams afford operations and upgrades.
Topic
overrated circuit on the current F1 calendar
They’re doing a fan poll game: which Formula 1 track people talk about the most, but maybe isn’t as great as it’s made out to be. They mention a few famous races and give points for the answers.
Topic
Monaco
Monaco is a very famous F1 race held on narrow streets. It’s hard to overtake there, so qualifying and track position matter a lot, which is why people argue about whether it’s overrated.
Topic
Las Vegas
Las Vegas is a newer F1 race, and people don’t all agree on whether it’s as good as the hype. The hosts are debating if it’s overrated.
Topic
spa 50
They’re talking about a specific Spa-Francorchamps anniversary race (“Spa 50”). The point is that, even at a great track, that particular event didn’t deliver much excitement.
Topic
Suzuka
Suzuka is a long-running, well-known F1 track in Japan. Even though it’s famous, the hosts are saying it might be overrated.
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Thank you for listening to the Latebreaking F1 Podcast.
Make sure to check out new episodes every Wednesday and every Sunday.
Hello and a very warm welcome to the Latebreaking F1 Podcast, presented by Sam Sage and me, Ben Hawking.
On this mid-week Wednesday episode, unfortunately, no F1 this weekend.
But Sam, we've decided today we'll go in the same clothes as we did on Sunday,
because we are dirty little buggers.
We are messy boys. Yes, it's just...
It's channeling my inner Kim Woodburn there.
You dirty little bugger.
Yes, how we roll? We've got nothing else to live for at the moment,
so it's just getting through every day, until four months back.
These were the dark times.
Well, we had a month of dark times.
We'll go more dark times, please, Ben.
Okay, no problem.
Well, good news for you, Sam, is that we're playing formula fortunes later on.
So, this is bound to be a good episode because of that alone.
But on top of that, we've also got an interview with the one and only Matt Magindy coming up later on in the show too.
I spoke to him last year, had an opportunity to speak to him earlier in the week,
so you'll hear that interview shortly.
But let's start with Oscar Piastri and Red Bull.
Because according to Autosport, Oscar Piastri has been identified by Red Bull
as its leading candidate to replace Max Verstappen if the four-time Formula One world champion were to leave the sport.
Sources cited by Autosport in the Miami Paddock say this view is shared internally,
even though Verstappen remains under contract for next season
and the team continues to publicly maintain that he is staying.
The report adds that team principal Laura Meckies and Oliver Mintzlaff are prepared to activate a contingency plan
centered on Piastri in the unlikely but possible event Verstappen departs for a rival team,
takes a break from Formula One, or exits the sport entirely.
Should also say on this, whilst it's a report by Autosport,
SkySports have readily reposted this.
It's on their website, so it's not to say that SkySports are confirming this is true,
but equally, that kind of implies they're confident enough to share it on their own platform.
So maybe there's not nothing in this.
No, this isn't some kind of dumbfounded news story that's come out
because we want a bit of a click-through rate or to get people onto your website.
This has got some substance behind it.
Now, what that substance is, it's always tricky to say when it comes to having a point of view,
to go if it's genuinely substantial, if maybe Mark Webber has had a conversation.
Of course, Mark Webber being Piastri's agent had a conversation with Red Bull.
We know there's ties there between Webber and Red Bull as well.
And you would argue that Oscar Piastri very much fits the mould of a Red Bull driver
in his attitude, the way he goes about his racing.
That clinical, no fuss, gets on with the job, delivers.
You look at Vettel, you look at the Stappen, you look at Piastri now.
They kind of fit a very similar wavelength in terms of the way they act.
They speak, they interview, they drive.
Daniel Ricciardo arguably is probably the outsider of those kind of key drivers
that they've had at their team.
So, I'm not shocked that this is actually a story that we're seeing.
And it makes total sense that Red Bull with the potential imminent threat
that Max Stappen could be very much stronger on his merry little way out of the sport.
It makes sense that they need a contingency plan.
They're going to go back up.
And as we discussed a few episodes ago,
Lawson and Limblard probably not ready realistically to step up
and be a League Formula One driver in Red Bull.
Yeah, and I think there's a difference between promoting those drivers
and promoting them to a team that has another relatively inexperienced driver alongside.
This is a team that has had a lot of success in the past
and going with such an inexperienced lineup likely isn't what they want to do.
Now, appreciating that Piastri, despite his rather calm demeanor,
makes you feel like he's been an F1 for a decade.
He himself is not that experienced,
but he has had the experience of being in a championship fight,
of winning races, of being in those sorts of situations
that could help a team like Red Bull out if and when he was needed.
You can't replace Max Stappen in that he is such a difference maker for the team
that you are aiming to replace 80% of him,
which would be honestly a good result for Red Bull
if he did decide to move away either from the team or from the sport entirely.
Piastri has proven over the last, I want to say, two years or so, 24 months,
he is one of the best in the sport.
I think I would have him in a top five best drivers in the sport.
I don't know if you'd agree or disagree with that.
I don't think you're crazy for saying it.
I think he's in the mix for top five in the sport and he might not be done there.
Again, whilst he appears very experienced,
this is only his fourth year in the sport.
He might still improve from where he is right now.
You look at some of those other grades.
I mean, this happens a very good example of that.
But even if you look at, say, Lewis Hamilton,
both of those drivers were getting better even four years into their career.
So what we've seen from Piastri so far might not be the end product.
So I think it's a pretty sensible target for them.
I think it is as well.
And when it comes to opposition of who they might want to look at hiring Sega Piastri,
he stands out in the time that he's been here as well.
You know, Piastri has picked up more wings than Russell.
He's picked up more wings than the Clare, which is sad to say those things.
But those are probably the other two drivers that you would look at as leading contenders
from rival teams that you might want to go after.
For context of that, Piastri has had 72 Grand Prix and he's picked up nine wings.
That's a 12% conversion rate.
Charlotte Clare has been 175 Grand Prix, but he's only picked up eight wings.
It's a 4% conversion rate.
George Russell has been involved in 156 Grand Prix,
was only picking up six wings as a 3% conversion rate.
So whilst there is time on the Sega Piastri to obviously build up his Grand Prix experience,
he has managed to convert far more of those Grand Prix.
Now, again, there's mitigating circumstances.
McLaren had a great couple of years while he was on the rise,
but it shows you that when given the car, given the opportunity,
he is genuinely able to convert those opportunities into race wings and valuable points.
It makes sense.
He's got a lot of time left in his career.
Le Clare is locked into Ferrari for eternity.
George Russell, we might just see him get beaten by a teenager.
Who knows?
That might happen this year.
That will damage his stock significantly.
Piastri is definitely still on the rise.
He came so close to a championship against a more experienced teammate and Max Verstappen.
He picked up a really quality fight and one race goes differently.
He wings that title.
And it is not just his speed.
His speed obviously factors into this a great deal,
but I think Red Bull would be really happy to pick up with someone that has the demeanor of Oscar Piastri.
I know we've only seen him against the teammate.
We've only seen him compared to Lando Norris.
He hasn't had a second teammate in F1 yet.
But even without seeing that, I'm very confident that Piastri is the type of driver,
the type of individual who will just work with anyone.
Like, bear in mind, like with the McLaren fight for the championship last year,
there were so many reasons why that could have blown up.
Like, we had Norris crashing into Piastri at Canada.
They were close all year long.
And I know we had all the nonsense around papaya rules and the like, but it was mainly team-driven.
In terms of the relationship between Piastri and Norris,
that is pretty much as good of a result as you can possibly get
for two drivers fighting for their first world championship.
And a lot of that, and it's not just Piastri, it's to do with Norris as well.
But a lot of that is based on Piastri and I think the way in which he operates.
And that's an attractive element to signing him.
No doubt about that.
Yeah, just wants to get on with the job, be the best he can be,
and he's not going to slate someone else off in trying to gain a tenth or two by playing mental games.
So we're kind of saying that for the most part,
it would be a positive move if Red Bull could pull this off.
But then there's the other side of the coin,
which is would this be a beneficial move for Piastri in his career?
Could it be?
It's risky, isn't it?
Yeah, it's risky because McLaren have proven over the last 34 seasons
that they are genuinely capable of building and sustaining a championship
fighting if what championship winning car.
You know, they have two constructors, one driver's title in the last three seasons,
which is great for them.
And they look to be already improving in the new regulations.
We saw just in Miami that they were the closest competitor,
but to Mercedes by a long shot and they already look like they're leapfrogging Ferrari in the process.
Come on, Ferrari.
But it does feel like if you were to take a step away from that team to anyone,
other than realistically Mercedes, you are risking a career of always being second best.
But equally, how many times have McLaren been second best to a team that has superseded them?
One of those teams being Red Bull most recently, of course,
where they picked up four in a row with Max Verstappen.
And that could be his career.
That could be his legacy.
If Red Bull gets something right between, you know, the years 29, 2030,
it might be a really big momentum shift for Red Bull.
And they could crack the code.
So we go on another run of three or four wins and Piastri is the guy that does that.
And yet equally, you can have a car that sits in sixth place in terms of, you know,
the every race performance and you can't get any further.
And he watches Landon and Norris go on to be a 45 time world champion
because McLaren get the package right.
It really is a game of some of this well was Lewis Hamilton.
You know, he made that call to go to Mercedes at exactly the right time,
had one year of development and then suddenly picked up six world titles,
of course, out of eight given opportunities.
You get it right.
You make your career groundbreaking and legendary.
You get it wrong.
You just become another driver that's got a few race wings in their belt.
Yeah, it's he can go the way of Hamilton.
It can go the way of Daniel Ricciardo leaving for Renault.
Like it can go both ways and I know it's maybe not a fair comparison
in the Renault had very little success at the point Ricciardo made that move.
Whereas Red Bull have, but it is these career crossroads can be very interesting.
I feel like with Piastri and this move, you if you take the McLaren side of it,
you can be relatively confident, high confidence value,
that it's going to be good if he stays at McLaren, whether it be great or not.
Not sure whether it will be bad feels unlikely, but it will be good.
You think Red Bull.
It's like it could be amazing and it could also massively backfire.
And you might have something in between as well.
But I just feel like the confidence level is much lower with Red Bull.
Because if you look at, let's just say this century,
how many dominant periods have we had from a team?
We've had Ferrari from 2000 to 2004.
We've had Red Bull from 2010 to 2013.
That Mercedes from 2014 to say 2020.
And then you've had Red Bull 2022 to 2024, I would say.
Two of those four dominant spells in the last century have been by Red Bull.
They have proven maybe not without Adrian Newey,
but they have proven that they can have these extended spells of success.
And whilst McLaren have won titles in that range,
they've had Lewis Hamilton, obviously, win the title in 07.
They had Norris win the title last year.
They've been competitive, but they haven't yet proven that they can go on that
similar run that Red Bull have been able to.
And I wonder if that would be a consideration for Piastri
if he does want to make this move.
There is also the team dynamic, right?
And you mentioned how well they seem to get along.
I don't mean like their best mates and they're all chummy,
but I mean, like, you know, in terms of two drivers who are regularly in
contention for racewings and therefore titles,
they get along pretty well considering.
But is there a thought from Piastri where he goes,
I came into this team second to Norris.
I kind of grew up in Formula One next to Norris.
He was the more experienced driver.
Norris feels like he's named McLaren his home much like the Clare has Ferrari.
You know, the Stappen has Red Bull currently.
It feels like he's not going anywhere.
Is there a realistic chance that Oscar Piastri feels so early in his career,
feels so young, has got the ability to go, well, I'll go to Red Bull.
I've got 15 years left of my career.
I could be the Red Bull driver for the next decade and a half
and build a team around where currently in McLaren,
it's shared pretty fairly, pretty evenly, but it's shared.
And it will always be shared because Norris was there before him.
So unless Norris leaves, it's not going to ever be Piastri's team.
So it'd be interesting to go what he thinks.
Yeah.
And you wonder whether has he got enough in the bank almost to make that career
error and then go somewhere else if it doesn't work.
I think he probably does, but I think it's probably one chance rather
than more than one chance based on what we've seen from him so far.
I think it'd be foolish not to consider it.
Like the Piastri, the power unit is looking pretty good, right?
He's a power unit.
He is that good.
So the power unit is looking pretty good.
The car has improved the early points of this year, but still has a ways to go.
I think, again, it doesn't matter whether he actually goes through with it,
but I think he should at least consider it.
Also producer Kersky being the ultimate producer is just seeing a really
lovely photo of what 12 year old, 30 year old Oscar Piastri here.
He's doing very proudly outside of the Red Bull Racing Headquarters
looking delighted with himself.
Probably the only person to ever look that delighted with anything in Milton
Kings, I imagine.
Also, he doesn't look any different.
Yeah.
It just look at his face.
He looks no different.
It's just Oscar Piastri's skill.
He's like it.
Yeah.
Anyway, so maybe that was an omen many years ago.
In terms of how realistic you think this is, Sam, like if you had to put
up maybe a percentage chance on it, is it going to happen?
I'm at about 15 to 20%.
If the Stapling Outs is a leave, that will jump to something like a 70 to 75%.
This is hugely relying on Max Verstappen not being a pop.
Because let's face it, he's not getting replaced.
He chooses to leave or stays.
The Stapling has the power and it affects a lot more than just Red Bull as
a team.
There's going to be a huge domino effect in Formula One to what goes on here.
Yeah.
I, I'm going to agree with you.
I think that range is kind of right.
It's more unlikely than likely.
But equally, I'm not completely writing this off.
If it's not Oscar Piastri, you mentioned George Russell.
We know we did our 2027 lineup predictions not that long ago and the
likes of Pierre Gasly and Carlos Sainz were mentioned.
So if it's not Piastri, who are we looking at instead?
Yeah, I think, I think Red Bull will want someone with longevity that they
can really put their time and effort into.
And we've already mentioned their young drivers.
It's no slight on the young drivers.
It's just they've got Max Verstappen and I don't think they'll be able to turn
up to Red Bull and go, I'm going to win on my first time on a Red Bull, guys.
I never say it's a route, but I'm going to win.
It's unlikely to happen.
They're unlikely to have the same impact.
Regenerationally, that doesn't happen very often.
So even if Limblog is the best version of Limblog we could ever have, is
it as good as Max Verstappen?
That's a conversation.
I think they'll want to go for someone with some actual experience.
So that for that fall, that's got to work.
So therefore, that's what I'm trying to say.
You have to look outside of the team dynamics to try and understand
where their direction might go.
So if it's a Piastri, I think Russell is a fair shot, especially if he is
best by Antonelli and they fall out of love a little bit with Russell as the
team. That was also part of the conversation of if Verstappen would go
to Mercedes as part of this conversation, of course.
If Ferrari really fall off, I think Leclerc is a genuine consideration.
He's not going.
I'm trying to put realism into his mind.
I think there's more chance that Red Bull jump Ferrari at some point in
the next year than Ferrari jumping everyone else to be title contenders.
That's just how it's going.
All you need to do is tell Leclerc it's fine.
We'll be winning races in six months time and he goes, oh, yes, boss.
OK, we will be winning.
I stay red.
Yes, great.
It's just the most gullible Ferrari level of time, isn't it?
We love you, Shell.
You gullible.
Look, I can't say that.
My next race, Shell, we're going to win.
Oh, OK.
I'm happy again.
Yeah.
But yeah, I think then they might have to look at something below them.
I think someone like Bortoletto could be a shell.
You know, I generally think if you're going to go something a little bit
different, he could be a fair shell.
I would choose Gasti over Science at this point.
Science has now really been around the block and I think they've probably
moved on from that.
Gasti has kind of proven that he has had one step away from the Red Bull family,
right?
The last team he was at was Alpha Towery.
I still think that that's a fair move.
And he's actually, I must have said, Marco, isn't there anymore?
True.
I can't see it being someone like Bortoletto just based on Bortoletto,
Hajar line up.
I just don't think they'd go for for two young drivers.
It depends on what happens.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I'm talking like if it's next year, like, if it's December this year,
it's announced, I agree.
Yeah.
I think Russell, that I could see that happening.
I could see that happening in terms of Science and Gasly.
It's a really interesting one, whether either would be suitable with
Gasly.
The problem is that the same questions that you had after his 2019
stint are still there in that as soon as he went to a top team and he
didn't get a lot of time, there's only half a season.
We have to remember that.
He couldn't hack it in that half a season.
And in all of the time that he's had an F1 since, he's been great in the
midfield and he hasn't yet had the opportunity to go back to a top
team and show as soon as I have a race winning car, I can prove that
I'm a better driver than what I was back then.
And I still think they may be in the back of their heads still have
that in consideration with Carlos signs.
It's almost a bit safer in that he showed versus Charlotte Clare at
Ferrari.
He's perfectly solid, but you're also, I think then can you are giving up the
fact that he could be great because that's maybe harsh, but like signs
wasn't on the Clare's level.
And so I've never got the chance to drive a Red Bull.
No, no, exactly.
I think, you know, signs proved at Ferrari like he was very good there,
but he also proved that if Ferrari were capable of winning a world title,
it was going to be Le Clare that did it, not him.
So I think if Red Bull were to go back to science, it would almost be
an admission of we're, we're signing a seven out of 10 driver.
But then you throw in the ultimate rookie that is from Andrew Alonso.
Yes, that's true.
I just worry about his inexperience.
It's true.
He's not been around a long time, so he could let the team down.
Yeah.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens.
So have you got to go, got to go away for 20 minutes.
Do you have any idea what you're going to do with those 20 minutes?
I'm going to walk to Milton Keynes and I'm going to recreate the
Oscar Piascu photo that we just saw.
Oh, nice.
Okay, I can get the same teacher and everything.
I have one request.
Okay.
Every roundabout that you see in Milton Keynes,
can you pretend you're a car when you go around it and like indicate
with your hands?
I'm not sure that's different to what I do anyway.
I can really picture that.
That's terrifying.
I hate that you can picture that.
Do you make a noise as well?
Of course I do.
It's on the car and then I go.
I nailed that.
I thought there was a car in the room with us.
Ha ha ha.
Good.
So anyway, I'll see you in Milton Keynes.
You have fun with our guest guest.
Yes, I'm going to be chatting with Matt Magendee right after this.
Welcome back everyone.
We are delighted to welcome back a guest to the show after spending a year
behind the scenes with Red Bull Racing author and journalist Matt Magendee.
It's here to talk about what must have been a very thrilling year at Red Bull
and to preview his new book Inside Red Bull Racing.
Welcome back to the show, Matt.
Yeah, thanks very much for having me back on.
Yeah, no problem at all.
We were just saying it's been a while.
It was a summer break of last year, I think, wasn't it?
Yes, I think we were both, I guess, probably desperately trying to find
different ways to talk about the season when nothing's happening,
which I guess has happened a little bit this season as well.
But yeah, yeah, that was a good fun crossover from memory.
Yeah, I was thinking back to it.
One of the things that stood out in my memory,
and it'll probably come up today, is that we were talking quite a lot
about the drivers' championship and which way it would go.
Remembered distinctly being wrong about saying it would be Piastri,
but at that point, it was very much a two-horse race.
We were discussing, would it be Piastri, Norris?
And little did we know that there would be a third person involved?
It is extraordinary, isn't it?
You know, the plus 100 points behind Max Verstappen was,
and I think people in the team haven't exactly given up,
and they would admit that, but it didn't seem remotely possible.
And yet this sudden turnaround happened,
and it just sort of got better and better and it was so dramatic
how it happened with the problems, the DQ that McLaren had,
and then also the error they made with the strategy call,
and suddenly you add it right back in,
and then the excitement of going all the way down to that very final race.
In some ways, I don't know, it sounds like an odd thing to say.
In some ways, it didn't matter, you know, following that,
that Max didn't win that fifth World Championship, Max Verstappen,
because it was just so incredible that they'd even managed to get to that point.
He seemed the most sanguine of anyone about it.
You know, there was a few sort of dropped bowed heads within the team,
and yet he was like, this is like a win, guys.
We were absolutely nowhere, and we've ended the season with the quickest call.
I think it was after his Katar win when he gave his post-race interview,
and I think at that point, he looked so calmer,
but his expression was actually, I guess I could actually win this now.
This actually feels plausible after the way in which that race could have gone,
but yeah, you're right, over 100 points back from the middle of the year.
It's not something that we were discussing in August of 2025.
So I wanted to ask you about 2026, first and foremost,
just outside of Red Bull, how are you finding the season so far?
I guess it's been a bit of a disrupted year, a few weeks break, obviously, after Japan,
but these new regulations seem to have got everyone talking.
I've found it fascinating.
There's so much to take in, so many different regulations
and trying to get your head around it, and for fans to try and get their head around it,
and I'm sure you guys have had countless conversations,
trying to sort of explain everything to everyone,
but I always like a regulation change.
It breaks things up.
We've had some quite bonkers racing and overtaking,
and I love sort of seeing the Ferraris starting.
Doesn't matter if they're kind of seventh on the grid,
but you know they're going to get right up there in the mix.
So yes, it's different.
Obviously, there's a lot of drivers less happy with it,
but I've enjoyed the show.
Have you been the same view or have you?
Yeah, I mostly positive, I say mostly positive, it's a bit of both.
I feel like there's three camps almost.
You've got people who are very negative about what we've got going on now.
Those are very positive, and then maybe me in the middle where it's not perfect yet,
but I can see a way in which, and already with some of the tweaks that have been made,
but I can see over the next few years,
I'm not sure what else can be done in the 26th season in all honesty,
but I can see this developing into something,
I was just saying enjoyable, that implies that it's not enjoyable already,
but even more enjoyable than what we've currently got.
So yeah, somewhere sitting on the fence in the middle, I think.
Well, then they'll get to that point and they'll change it again, won't they?
So it's the nature of Formula One.
Always the way, isn't it?
2021 season happens, one of the most exciting of all time.
New regulations come in the next year.
It seems well timed each time.
You must have had behind the scenes a good look at how Red Bull were preparing for this year.
Was it something that was a bit of an undercurrent throughout the entire year?
Was it something that seemed to pick up a lot towards the end of the season?
How did you find that?
So it was there from the very outset and principally,
I guess it was the same for every team in the regard of the big regulation change,
but why it was there so much for Red Bull is obviously building their powertrains,
their power unit in-house for the first time ever.
And so that was such a big part of Christian Horner when he was at the helm of the team,
he was in charge of the regime.
That was a big thing that he'd pushed for.
And then for Laura Mecchez, it became a massive thing,
obviously when he took over and it's just such an amazing project.
You know, they like to say as a team, you know,
they didn't just build the engine,
they built the building for the engine that had just been afield.
And that's astonishing to get to the point where they did,
where actually they've got an incredibly competitive engine far more than I expected to,
you know, far more power and reliability than perhaps you might have thought from a season one team.
So that was always in the background.
So we very much had the sort of story of what might happen in 2026 in the background.
And also I was always fascinated during the course of 2025,
whether what they were doing in staying in that fight,
how much that be to the detriment of this season.
And I think Mecchez has been honest enough to admit that it has had an impact,
and inevitably it will because there's only so much attention you can give to each season.
So that was heavily married, 25 and 26 quite heavily married together,
particularly for people.
Yeah, it's one of those weird situations where I think it was worth going for it last year
because I'm kind of the mindset.
If you ever have a chance at a championship,
you're doing yourself from the sport to service by not putting everything behind it.
But equally, it's like if they didn't have Max Verstappen,
they probably don't feel they have the driver to win that fight.
They therefore spend more time on this year and maybe give Max Verstappen a better car.
It's a weird mix.
But I've been fascinated by how good that power unit is.
I felt going into this year, it would almost be the reverse situation
where we were asking more questions about the power unit
and maybe less questions about the chassis seems to be reversed at the moment.
Yeah, that definitely took me by surprise.
When they came out and you're like,
this engine is looking pretty good.
It's hard to know entirely until you're there and you can compare and everything.
But straight away, it looked good and reliable.
It didn't seem to have major, major issues.
Bear in mind, you would have thought they'd be...
I remember telling someone a story in 2018 in testing
where the car came out of the garage and didn't make it out of the garage.
It just broke down there and that car ended up pretty good.
So the RB18 rather than the 2018 and obviously that was a very successful car.
And so I expected more of that reliability issue to happen
and us to be talking about the engine and then to be saying,
well, this is season one, give us a chance.
And lo and behold, it's been great and we've been questioning the chassis.
But now what I love in the true Red Bull story,
they've had a few weeks to work it out and suddenly out they came.
I know things didn't go perfectly in the end of Miami, but wow,
to be contending for pole position, looking in a strong position.
Obviously, Max had that spin.
But you're like, wait a minute, they seem to have turned things around
and that's one of the great things, whether it was the 2025 season,
this season or seasons past their ability to develop in season,
whether that's with the engine, whether that's with the with the chassis
is is is astonishing.
And that's credit mech is like to say and credit the 2000 people.
But it really, you know, having been behind behind sort of closed doors there,
it really is that collective effort, astonishing number of waybrainer people
than me able to problem solve throughout the course of the season.
And it says a lot that with the greatest respect to Pierre Gasly
and Alpine to go from battling those two in just one race ago
to getting a front row start in Miami to show the the speed at which things
these things could turn around when you have a team as effective as Red Bull.
I wanted to ask a bit more generally about the the idea to spend a full year
behind the scenes with Red Bull, how did it come about?
And what was it that interested you about the project?
So back back then I went when I was a newspaper journalist with the evening
standard, the London paper, and I did have approached Red Bull about doing
a feature inside the winning machine because I wanted to get a sense of this.
You know, you think of this team.
It's an energy drinks company name owned by Austrian time billionaires,
but it's a British success story.
You know, it's on British turf, Milton Keynes, largely British workforce.
I know there's international field in there, too, and to try and get a sense
of this sort of British success story and how it works.
I did this feature inside the winning machine and talked to key players
and got to be there for like a post race debrief.
Max Verstappen coming on the screen, having looking a little worse for where
be fair to say he'd had he admitted he'd had a few gin and tonics to celebrate
post race, but it was the day after that was just nice.
And it was a really good feature.
But what I found by being given the access for this particular thing,
there was so much more that could be told not just, you know, we know by watching
drive to survive or watching the race that we can, you know, of the Christian
Horn, there's the Laura Mechiers, Yuki Sonoda, Max Verstappen, et cetera,
all these big names.
There were so many other stories to be told.
And that's the bit I was most fascinated.
So I approached them about the idea of doing this podcast, which obviously
we knew before the inside track with BBC.
And then it sort of took off from there and they seem to be invested in the
idea of being able to tell the stories of these.
I mean, it'd be wrong to say they're lesser lights because they're still integral
figures, but people that maybe people are less well versed in and I loved
all that part.
And I still feel like even having spent some time there with the team,
you only sort of chipped away at the surface.
There's so many more different strands you could have gone down and different
people you could have invested time in speaking to.
Did they remain quite, I don't know, open, approachable throughout the year?
Were you impressed by how much they were letting you?
Yeah, I think they were very good at that.
They understand, you know, that they need to open their doors.
I mean, I was incredibly privileged and lucky to get the access that I did.
Obviously, there were moments when it undulated inevitably when there were
some difficulties in the team and the change of hierarchy and stuff.
And I was unsure how that would go down.
And at certain points, it was harder to perhaps chat to people than others.
But then when Laura Meckiers came in, he seemed to appreciate
there still being a good project to do.
And so, yeah, I was very grateful carried on.
And, you know, I guess it was such a great story to be able to tell such a
positive story as well as a shining light on these remarkable individuals
and, you know, making it, you know, stressing the point that it wasn't
just the superstars that we were actually more interested in these other characters,
fascinating characters to be able to hear from all of them.
I have to congratulate you for getting this all into one book
because looking at the highlights of last year, the championship push,
the change in hierarchy.
And I guess the first big thing was Lawson being replaced by Sonoda.
So many, so many notable moments for the team throughout the year.
If we were to go back to the close to the beginning when there was
that driver lineup change, how was that behind the scenes?
Because I just remember pure shock when it happened.
So, yeah, I was just, it was so unexpected.
I mean, I know there was pressure and stuff and people saying things,
but I really just didn't think that would that would happen.
And it seemed incredibly brutal at the time and credit to Lawson to,
you know, turn things around by moving teams and getting himself a gig
for this season as well.
That was hugely impressive.
I think lesser mentally, you know, less mentally strong people
would have would have crumbled and I think he looked like he struggled
initially, but that was so impressive.
But yeah, I wasn't so early into the project.
I didn't have like full insight at that time.
It was more being able to reflect with others on that moment with the
speed with which it happened and suddenly, you know, total driver change.
It was quite a seismic seismic move, wasn't it?
I mean, do you remember thinking shock at the time?
Yeah, yes.
Yeah, just two races is pretty hard, isn't it?
Yeah, even based on some of the decisions made by Red Bull in the past
going to the extent of just two races for a driver before deciding
they need to move on, bear in mind as well.
Like it was was it Australia where it was absolutely soaking wet in a
in a first race in a car and then a Chinese weekend where you have
one practice session because it was a sprint.
Like it was not not saying two race weekends would be normal anyway,
but it was almost a condensed two races as well for Lawson.
So I mean, they say to argue, didn't they that what they'd seen,
I think in testing and around the factory that that they were like
worrying signs that that he just seems, you know, wrapped in headlights.
I guess almost would be we have way of describing it and this was going
to get worse rather than better was in their mind and that they felt
the best way to protect him was to do that.
But yeah, I'm mad, I'm mad early start to spending a season with the team for sure.
Yeah, my instinct as well as if they'd given Sonoda the nod.
It probably would have ended in the opposite situation of Lawson placing him.
I wouldn't have been surprised at all.
I'm early in the year outside of the obvious driver changes.
I felt we had, even though Verstappen was winning a couple of races at that point,
the surge of McLaren was very much confirmed early in the year.
Felt like the biggest challenge that Red Bull would have to a driver's
championship at least for a number of years.
Is that how it felt behind the scenes?
A team that was very used to winning suddenly.
It's it's looking a bit shakier.
Yeah, but the thing is, they're so driven by winning.
It is such competitive characters.
So you'd have, you know, the old regime.
There was Christian Horner, Adrian Nguyen, also Jonathan Wheatley,
and they were so, you know, driven characters, but there's so many others still remained.
You know, Pierre Vache is very competitive.
Jean-Pierre Lambiassi is very competitive.
People talk about the engineers sometimes at the team, that one in particular
being almost more competitive than the drivers.
So even when they were looking like they were struggling, you know,
and the car was blowing kind of hot and cold.
The fact there was a sniff of a race win here and there made them believe
they had something in this car that they could unpick to be a winner.
So I don't think they ever felt that the McLaren were running away with it.
They felt it was tangible, this opportunity to be able to to to this narrow
operating operating when they had this car, which being able to sort of widen it
or being able to get to the core of what the issues were with the RB 22.
And so there was never that conceding to McLaren.
Even when I think all of us watching, we're conceding to McLaren.
It's just just not the Red Bull way.
There's a sniff of a chance of being as competitive.
I mean, always going for the win.
But then after that, you, you know, P3 is the best you can do.
Go for that as far for P6 is the best you can do.
There's always that monumental drive to attain the best humanly possible.
Yeah, I seem to remember.
I think it was maybe the Hungarian GP where Red Bull were not on it at all.
And was it for Stapham?
It might have been eighth in that Grand Prix, but it felt like probably
the most he could have got out of that weekend.
And I don't remember him at least over team radio afterwards being
massively disappointed in the result knowing that actually that was
probably the maximum that could have been achieved that weekend.
Ghost of show, I guess that I think, I think was it that race that he said
he didn't expect to win a race again all season?
I think after that one, I'm pretty sure that was that point.
So that shows, you know, where they were.
So not even he had a sense that it was going in this in this crazy
direction, end up going in a few weeks and months later.
I got to ask about the change in leadership at the top because I think
that would be fairly significant regardless of which team you're
covering.
But this is not only a change at the top.
It's a change of someone at the top who'd been there since the start
20 years.
Did it feel as monumental as it should have been?
Yeah, when it happened at the time, it was an absolute wow moment.
Obviously, we knew about some covered travesty and sort of in fighting and
not everyone totally happy at the top there, all these big figures.
But then when it happened and Horner was, you know, the only leader
people had ever known was was gone.
So I remember turning up to Belgium for the subsequent race and you know,
normally in the paddock, everyone's excited about the driver arrived
was all the photographers there.
But actually, there was more interest in Laura Mechers arriving.
And, you know, while they knew him, he wasn't as, you know, larger life
character as a Zach Brown total Wolf Christian Horner.
And who was this guy and was he going to be able to stay the ship to
turn turn things around?
And that was it was just fascinating to see that and actually to see
how quickly I mean, he always says it's not when I remember when I
interviewed him, it's not what what is the Laurel Mechers team?
I think I asked what that is or what is the identity?
He never thought there's anything about him.
I think you remember him a few times talking about how he had zero
impact, which is just not true.
He's downplaying it, but but he quickly got to know everyone quickly
got to work out where fixes might have been needed.
And, you know, their turn around his credit to him, but also credit
to the previous regime because some of that turnaround stuff was
happening behind the scenes and an action before he took over.
But yeah, very impressed by by his leadership and also fascinating
to see how contrasting a leader he is to Christian Horner leads me
nicely on to the next question really, because I think the last time
we spoke, it would have been August.
So he wouldn't have been in the role for very long.
Did you see the way in which he approached the role change over
those months?
Like, did he start to, I don't know, put his his idea of what this
team should be the longer the season went on?
No, I actually don't think so.
I think he he's very clear minded in who he is as an individual
and as a leader and obviously had experience of that in different
roles, you know, with with with RB and also FIA, et cetera,
things.
So he was very clear, but it was it was as exactly as you'd imagine
an engineer taking over from a former engineer or taking over
from a former racer and immediately there is that difference
and you could see how it changed things for some people.
So for the engineers around there, they had that more kind of
hands-on approach, more being able to go more in depth.
And I think, well, I know Verstappen and Sunoda appreciated that.
So that was that that sort of technical know-how he was able
to bring in, you know, little facets that were different.
He would go into the garage at the start of the weekend and talk
to all the mechanics.
They'd just be a little debrief and try and pick everyone up.
And this is what we'll do.
He probably saw a couple of them, I think got filmed by by Red Bull.
They put on their channels.
And so there was that there's just little facets, but it was
the engineer I think approach was the was the biggest difference.
And that stayed, you know, that was from race one right to the
last race of the ones he was in charge of.
As you alluded to, you got the opportunity to speak to a wide
range of people, wide range of roles during the year.
Yeah.
Is there anyone without naming names?
Is there anyone that you enjoyed speaking to the most like a
particular a particular role maybe that you enjoyed speaking
to that really got under the hood of what was going on?
See, I reckon I could answer this so many different ways on
a different day.
But like it, let's let's just go with the the Calla twins.
Then as an example, Matt and John Calla.
Matt since since since left the team, but they were the
number one mechanics, one for Verstappen and one for Lawson
and then Sunoda and just having these, you know, twins at the
front end running each car was was lovely and seeing their
rapport together, their competitiveness together.
They're actually really quite competitive brothers, whether
that's playing rugby as kids or being, you know, in the classroom
at school or being on either side of the garage, but also
while there was competition, there was that collective
behavior and I found those two fascinating and they're very
funny characters.
They brought such really good energy, but I mean, it's it's
sort of wrong to single one out.
So I've slightly fudged it by singling two out.
That gives me my best best possible answer.
Can't blame you for that.
Last question really on this is based on your expectations
going into this year.
Was there anything that really stood out as a massive surprise
like you felt something was going to be a certain way going
in and then you get under the hood of Red Bull and it's just
completely different.
Just maybe there's a naivety, but just understanding the sheer
number of people doing stuff to make a car go fast on a Sunday.
I know that sounds utterly ridiculous because you know
there's some other parts, but just being able to go into the
factory and see these room full of designers with different
bits on their screens, which my brain isn't big enough to
fully comprehend because I was never very good at science and
engineering.
But but you know, or seeing someone making, you know, someone
in the composites team to then suddenly going to advance
technologies to power trains.
Just all these amazing, amazing individuals.
And I think the sum of the parts is is the bit that is hard
for a Formula One team to tell, but I feel like we were able
to able to at least at least tell that a bit more.
Yeah, I feel like because of the visibility the drivers get
and maybe the team principal gets it is easy to forget the
sheer amount of people working that don't get that visibility
but are integral to an to an F1 team success, which I'm sure
you're going to depth with your book Inside Red Bull Racing.
So that's out 21st of May, but I believe it's available to
pre-order now.
Yes, absolutely spot on.
Yeah, brilliant.
And we'll make sure that we've got a link in our description
as I'm sure many will be interested to go away and have
a read of that.
Thanks very much for coming on again.
Matt really appreciates it and we'll have to catch up again
soon.
Lovely.
Well, thanks very much for having me on again.
Appreciate it.
No problem at all.
Welcome back everyone.
That was Milton Keyes mate.
Mate, it's the best I've ever seen it breezy up there,
but I got the t-shirt from Oscar and everything.
It was a really good trip.
How's Matt?
Oh, it was great.
Yeah, delightful chat.
It's always good to get to speak to him.
What a year he picked to go behind the scenes at Red Bull
by the way.
I know we mentioned it in the interview, but like the amount
that happened, Liam Lawson leaving after two races,
Christian Horner leaving after 20 years and then Verstappen
competing for a title that didn't look possible halfway
through the year.
Like great choice a year to pick.
Yeah, lucky boy.
Very exciting.
I'm very looking forward to seeing what he has produced
and giving it a good read.
Indeed.
Shall we move on to to Mr.
Zach Brown of all people because he believes Formula One
would be making a mistake by allowing another AB team style
alliance amid interest from Mercedes in taking a stake in
Alpine earlier this year.
Reports emerged that Mercedes was considering buying into
Alpine by acquiring the 24% share currently owned by the
American Investment Group, Otro Capital.
He said in today's day and age, if that's permitted, I think
it runs a real high risk of compromising the integrity of
sporting fairness.
And what would turn fans off is if they feel like they there's
not 11 independent racing teams.
I've been vocal about this from day one.
We've seen it play out on track in a sporting way with Daniel
Ricardo taking the fastest lap point away from us.
But we've also seen it in IP violations on the racing point
break ducts.
We've seen employees move overnight where we have to wait
and sometimes make financial deals, which then impacts us
in the cost gap.
So when you see other teams that move from one to the other
and then also without financial compensation, that's an unfair
financial advantage.
That's an unfair sporting advantage.
Do you think it would run the risk of compromising the integrity
of the sport if this Mercedes Alpine deal did go through?
There is nothing that I agree with Zach Brown more than this
scenario that he is posing.
I've been very vocal for years about AB teams or teams with
too much affinity and Red Bull and what was Toro Rosso that
then became what Alpha Towery that then became RB and racing
balls, whatever you call it.
They are the prime candidate, of course, the prime example of
how that happens.
We've seen so many times only recently in the 84 year break
between Japan and Miami that we saw team members move from one
to the other with no gargling leave, no conversation, no
external need to stop and improve why they're doing something
and how it is or isn't fair.
Red Bull saw an opportunity.
They saw that there was a risk or a development that needs to
happen and they immediately made a change between two what are
meant to be separate outfits.
And we've seen that on the track as well.
You have to remember in, I think it was 2021 where Pierre
Gassi was driving a really competitive Alpha Towery.
Qatar?
Yes.
And in Qatar, Gassi, I think was in the top five at that point
and Hamilton comes around and it's a nightmare and then the
Stapham comes up behind him.
A-Ram wide?
That's, oh sure.
Yeah, that's what it was.
That's the competitive advantage that Alpha Towery had.
Yeah, he just ran wide, Sam.
There's nothing else in that.
No, nothing at all.
Nothing at all.
Nothing at all.
Anyway, this is my point that it stops Formula One being a truly
competitive and you imagine if Braun won 2009, but Braun had
won the B team of McLaren.
And you say, you think, well, McLaren won the title with
Hamilton last year.
It stops it being this fantasy moment because actually they
were given extra.
They got given team members and staff members and development
time and updates off the table, under the table, you know,
off the cuff is what I'm trying to say because they had a
relationship with that team.
It stops it.
Imagine if Haas turned around and they win a title this year.
You go, wow, incredible.
Kamatsu's absolutely cooked up a proper roast dinner and we've
all sat down to eat and it's an amazing thing.
But if they were actually just a pure B team of Ferrari, one,
it can never happen.
And two, it would take away from the significance of it of
it happening because they have had assistance and genuine
collaboration between two teams, even though they said they
don't hate the idea of total buying into Alpine.
I want Alpine to become a real mainstay in Formula One,
whether they're under the name of Alpine or it's another
manufacturer, whatever it might be.
I want them to be a purely independent outfit.
I don't think it benefits Formula One by having that link.
We already have too much reliance on the likes of Mercedes
around Formula One as it is.
They're a brilliant part of Formula One.
I love that they are a part of Formula One, but we do rely
on them heavily for a lot.
I just want to make sure that we are competitive in every
single garage and every single team in theory at the start
of the season could do something special and go on to win
a title and we already know with one team that isn't going
to happen.
I don't want that to be the case with two.
Yeah.
We're aligned here and we're aligned with with Mr.
Zach Brown and that's not always the case.
Like I still haven't forgiven Zach Brown for the world
champion hotline incident, but yeah, so we don't, we don't
always agree with Zach Brown, but today, today, there is
a reason in other sports why there is such an effort to
ensure that teams that have shared ownership are kept
as separate as they possibly can.
Other sports have their issues with that as well.
Don't get me wrong, but there is a reason why there is an
effort there and it should be the same way in F one.
Like we already have subtle power when it comes to supplying
engines with Mercedes and Ferrari supplying these teams of
engines and in an ideal world, I would love doesn't really
matter how many teams 1112 teams that are all independently
powered by themselves.
Like that would be great, but I also appreciate that's quite
unrealistic at least in the short term.
So this should be the extent of, you know, the way in which
two teams can be aligned is that one is giving the other
their power units.
I don't think it should go any further than that.
Mercedes argument will be it's 24%.
This isn't as bad as Red Bull racing bulls.
That shouldn't be the target like that shouldn't be the
we need to be under that bar like no, you shouldn't be a bar.
No bar limbo is banned here.
It's on the floor.
Come on.
Also, once you open the door as well, it's easier to change
things as you go.
As soon as let's say Mercedes get this thing done and they
own 24%, that makes it far easier for them to then
potentially gain more to get their foot in the door in
terms of decision, but like it's just it becomes a lot murky
as soon as that first move is made.
It is really sad that Alpine if are continuing sort of down
this path like in an ideal world, even if they are selling
to groups like outro capital as soon as Mercedes declared
their interest, they should have gone.
No, get out of here.
We have no interest in that we're here to win.
We have championship ambitions like McLaren still have
championship ambitions with a Mercedes power unit that can
be done even if I love it and wish they'd stayed with their
own that by itself is fine.
But as soon as you give up a chunk of your team, that's
another thing entirely, which is very disappointing that
Alpine even if they don't go through with it.
The fact that they're considering it, I think is quite
poor and look, we won 11 as it is at the moment, 11 teams
with an equal theoretical chance of winning a championship
and we want things like driver skill and efficiency within
the team in terms of upgrades and the like.
We want that to be the deciding factor and it kind of makes
the cost cap a little bit pointless when you don't follow
through with it with this sort of thing.
Because yeah, you can say every team has an equal footing,
but then when you have the situation, you outlined where
GP Lambiasi has to wait a couple of years to go to McLaren
and McLaren in the interim even need to run Andrea Stella
into the ground or hire someone else to do the job for a couple
of years.
That is not an equal footing to Landy who moved from racing
bulls to red bull overnight.
There's no cost cap penalty there.
There's no waiting around.
That's not the same and that's frustrating for me because
then it kind of makes the cost cap a lot less effective and
makes me question why you bring it in the first place.
Yeah, I fully agree and it's not just personal.
It is upgrades.
It is research.
It is drivers on the racetrack helping each other out.
It is a fully systemic benefit.
It's not just one small micro above a part of Formula One.
It counteracts every single element of competitiveness.
So there's enough interest in Formula One right now where
something can come from outside and help Alpine or be a part
of Alpine or combine with Alpine.
There's more than enough investment opportunity.
I'm actually surprised that it's taken so long for something
to come along and buy a part of Alpine because there's so many
investors, manufacturers, teams, sponsors, whatever it might
be that wants to be involved in our sport.
I am shocked that it's having to take two potential investors
in the Christian Hall or Toto Wolf to be the ones to possibly
leading investment in this team.
I would love to see either a total buyout or at least a
partnership with Alpine X someone else externally.
Well, outside of this, Zach Brown also had some comments on
Red Bull and the Racing Bulls partnership.
He said there were discussions in the Concorde agreement about
should over time one of the Red Bull teams be divested.
But he also said I have a huge appreciation for what they've
done for the sport and how this was done a long time ago.
So I think as long as it's managed and watched the Red
Bull situation is okay.
Any surprise here because this is something that he's spoken
out about in the past, but it doesn't sound like he's very
very combative here about this particular relationship.
I think he's trying to be political, which is fair enough.
You know, you have to play the game a certain way and you
don't remember the way in which Toro Rosso as it was back
then and Red Bull came about in the sport.
You know, Red Bull bought up Jaguar, of course, when they
wanted to leave the sport in the mid-2000s and I think it was
Monardi that went out of business and it was, you know,
they then bought up Toro Rosso came in and were the replacement.
So they saved teams in Formula One back then.
You know, we had enough teams on the grid because of the
investments that was made 20 years ago nearly 20 over 20
years ago now.
So that is a real positive and that doesn't shy away from
the fact that that has allowed for full running and long
drivers to come through you look at the stopping and battle.
We've got two of our best ever world champions that have come
through that program.
They have given a lot to the sport and you can't take that
away.
There are some benefits to the overall system, but that doesn't
mean that that sways me.
Always that Brown I think is quite clear in terms of the
overall direction that Red Bull and Formula One should go
and there's a partnership.
He's also been quite coy with his wording there.
I think one of the Red Bull teams should be divested.
We all know which team he's talking about, of course, but
he's obviously tried to play a fair game of, oh, it doesn't
matter what you want to do.
We'll leave the choice up to you.
You know, it's a bit nabby.
That would be very funny if Red Bull forced into a corner of
like, you have to sell one of your teams and they're like,
it's going to be Red Bull.
Yeah, we're keeping up.
We can't lose racing bulls.
We can't lose that yellow.
To the sport, man.
Gotta keep racing bulls.
That's what champions are born.
That would be hilarious.
But you know, we all know what he's getting out here.
So I think he's very right to try not to almost get people's
backs up.
I go, hey, they did something for us.
They did.
They did.
It was beneficial, but time's changed.
Things move on.
We have enough interest.
We can have 11 and hopefully in the future, at least 12 genuinely
independent competitive teams.
I think in the past that Brown has hated this relationship.
I do not think that has changed.
I still think he does hate this relationship and I think his
rather mild words on this are, as you put it, quite political
for a few reasons.
Number one, we know that it is in McLaren's best interest right
now to keep Red Bull happy because they would like GP
Lambiasi as soon as possible.
If there is a chance they can get him ahead of time by keeping
Red Bull happy, they're going to take that.
So I think that's part of it.
And I think this is maybe a case of Zach Brown picking his
battles and I think there are maybe two key reasons why.
Number one, the Concorde agreement that he's referring to
was signed last year.
That is in place until 2030 and whilst there might be other
ways in which you can get what he wants done, that is the
easiest way to get it done is via the Concorde agreement,
which isn't going to be touched for another five years.
So is there much point in fighting a battle that nothing's
going to really happen for a few years?
Probably not.
The other thing is he's got a wonder and think about who's
in his corner in terms of the F1 teams and right now, I don't
think the answer is very good for Zach Brown because if you
look up and down the grid, right, who would support McLaren
wanting basically racing balls to be sold and to an independent,
you know, Mercedes, they aren't going to back them because
they are trying to do the same thing with Alpine.
They would be really stupid if Mercedes back McLaren right
now, in which case it would also be really stupid for Alpine
to back them.
So that's two teams that aren't going to be in McLaren's corner
Ferrari in a somewhat similar position with both Cadillac
and Haas.
They they're not only supplying gearbox and engines to Cadillac.
They have a technical partnership.
It is in Ferrari's best interest to keep that alive.
Therefore, I think they would be against this and so would
Cadillac and so would Haas because they're the two benefiting
from it.
Red Bull and racing balls, unsurprisingly, probably against
it as well.
That's seven of the 10 teams outside of McLaren who are
probably against you.
Whilst I think he's got support from wider fans, I don't think
he's got support in the Paddock right now.
So he'd be making enemies maybe for no for no gain.
Yeah, this is going to end up being a decision made by the
FIA or Formula One independently, I think as part of a different
voting process.
You know, how Ben Silliam has come out and declared that the
V8s will be in the cars by 2030.
I think it would need to be done in that same route.
You know, that kind of a from a board level membership level
of the FIA, we declare that no teams and have more linked
than just engine supply.
That's the only way I think this gets through the next decade.
Well, that was my next question is, I was going to ask the
question, how is this address long term?
And that maybe maybe is part of the question.
But maybe before that, why should this be addressed long
term by F1?
Because we can as fans say, this is what we want.
They don't necessarily always listen to the fans.
What's the motivation for F1 to do something about this?
Mungatory value, dollar signs, you know, you look at what
what, what do each team bring in terms of value to the sport?
Mercedes bring, you know, global recognition.
They bring they cement authority in the racing world.
They have huge drivers that race from the sponsors that come
in a massive and you could say that for a number of teams,
you know, Ferrari bring heritage, McLaren also bring heritage
and now bringing up young drivers to get a lot of attention
about the sponsors, whatever.
And you could do this team after team after team.
You get racing balls and you say, what do racing balls bring?
Drainer and staff, good.
Driver and staff training, you know, is fair.
Okay, great.
There's a place for youngsters to come through and try all
things out.
Yeah, sure.
Is that outweighed by what a new team would actually bring?
And I think massively.
I think a new team would bring in so much more value to Formula
1, but Formula 1, if it continues to grow as a product,
we'll start to look at where up and down the grid its weaknesses
are, how can we grow monetarily?
And that is by going, well, what market is untapped?
Let's say the Toyota Haas relationship falls through,
but Toyota wants to be a part of Formula 1, but they can't be
the 12th team where you go, well, we're Toyota.
We make the most cars worldwide.
We'd like to be in Formula 1.
What do we do?
Well, you've got racing balls that they do just kind of sit
in like eighth place and they never win a Grand Prix
and they don't bring a lot.
Could be there because then we have another manufacturer
that genuinely brings a huge Asian market into Formula 1.
They massively supported worldwide in other racing sports.
The sponsorship money is huge and they could provide
another competitive element and an engine that comes with them
because they would certainly make their own.
So there is so much more value to be taken from a new manufacturer
taking the place of racing balls than keeping racing balls
for another decade other than young drivers and staff
get a chance to prove themselves.
I agree with you.
However, I think it is difficult for F1 to have hard evidence
of this and it is really difficult to get from point A
to point B with this.
It's not as easy as I wish it was this easy because then
they might do something.
It is difficult to say like 2009 Mercedes were not in the sport.
2014 Mercedes were in the sport and had been around for a few years.
2014 the state of F1 is much better than 2009.
That is because of Mercedes.
It is very difficult whilst that could be true.
It's very difficult to actually put that definitively.
I don't think right now F1 has the evidence to say
they are being held back by racing balls even if I think like you
they are like I don't think they've got evidence to say
we're losing money from this or we're losing maybe another team
in the title battle for this because inevitably there are
only a few teams that do feature in that title battle.
I think the key for racing balls future is Audi and Cadillac
because if either of those two teams it was maybe slightly
different but if Audi let's say Audi becomes competitive
and they form a rivalry with Mercedes which feels like
underneath the surface is already something that could happen.
If that does actually take place F1 has got some evidence to
say well having Audi in the sport instead of someone who's
filling the grid up that has been a benefit to us.
Similarly with Cadillac if they can become competitive and do
something that with respect to Haas they haven't been able to
do which is really become America's team and they get
widespread appeal across the United States.
At that point again F1 can say having Cadillac here is a real
benefit you know we would lose something if they went away
because right now if racing balls went away it wouldn't
really hurt them.
So I think actually the success of those two teams will inform
whether F1 does something in five to ten years time on this
or not.
And we've heard interest from a lot of teams when I said
teams I mean manufacturers of cars that want to come involved
you know BYD, BYD from China for example wants to be involved
in Formula One and that would open the Chinese market.
You see how teams utilize Xiao Guangyu when they go there
right the interest is massive and that's a singular driver
in a team that's not competitive instead of like he isn't racing
at the moment.
You bring a whole Chinese team into the outfit you potentially
actually get two Chinese drivers to be racing Formula One
that's a market of over 1000000000 people that you suddenly
tap into and that's a lot of money for a rising nation in
the sport.
So it's they are we know they're losing out but you're right
the way that F1 actually quantifies it improves it is a
very different story.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what happens
with that in the in the upcoming years wouldn't expect anything
in the next.
Let's take our final break on this episode on the other side.
It's Formula 4 shoots.
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Welcome back everyone as promised it's time for formula
fortunes.
Yes formula fortunes so we asked F1 fans we put this in our
discord by the way so if you're not already as part of our
discord this is the sort of thing you can get involved
with whenever we do this sort of a segment so when we put the
form in our discord asked you to answer 8 F1 questions with
your opinions no right or wrong answers and we have to guess
what the most popular answers are so it'll work that if we
get the fourth most popular answer from you will get one
point if we get the third most popular answer will get two
points we get the second most popular answer we will get
three points and if we can find that elusive best possible
answer we will get four points and it's myself versus Sam
this time so you've got a new opponent Sam in me rather than
Harry another person to lose to we'll see we'll see so are
you ready we've got eight questions some I'm ready let's
go for it we've got our whiteboards ready to go so if
you are if you're watching on Patreon that's where all of
the full video episodes are you'll be able to see our answers
but we'll actually we're not gonna say what our answers are
for audio listeners we're just gonna keep you guessing we'll
of course say what they were podcast ever yes our first
question is this we asked F1 fans who would you most like to
see as Max Verstappen's teammate.
There are a lot of potentially good answers to this I think
oh how to spell spelling is tough it's not the easiest thing
to be fair. I can I can narrow down what your answer is based
on I don't think it's like Hamilton for example if you're
asking how to spell it well I'm not sure I have to spell that
one L2Ls you know I'm right let's reveal our answers in three
21 Okay we do have thank goodness we've got a difference
of opinion to start so you think the people have gone with
Charles Leclerc as the person they'd like to see as Max Verstappen's
teammate most. I've gone with George Russell I'm hoping that
even though that rivalry's died down a little bit that maybe
people are remembering it. Well young people use social media
and they have really strong teaching spells so no one
remembers anything. Thank you Stefano. Okay here we go we've
got Kirsty messaging us the answers as we go just in case
you think I was a cheat in here so and play along at home
by the way keep track of your scores fourth place you'll get
one point if you said Oscar Piastri 17 votes for him third
place this will get you two points Kimmy Antonelli. Oh
yeah I didn't even cross my mind. No second place giving me
three points and anyone else three points who said George
Russell. Damn it. It's not damn it for long though because
the number one answer. Charles Leclerc with 27 votes that's
four points for you Sam and early well done to the people
well done you voted correctly. Let's see what the other
answers are. Bungers Alonzo's kid Max Verstappen I mean
honestly like he might be the only one that can contain
Max Verstappen. Jean Girard Subolba of course. You know
what Subolba would absolutely wreck Max Verstappen. I don't
yeah obviously hold different Ketler fish. Strange Fraley's
those. Yeah. A couple of years ago Lewis Hamilton on the top
like chat. Oh no doubt. No doubt. 2022 we asked that Hamilton
topster chat. I also I was considering Fernando Alonzo
there and that would have got me no points so yeah. Sorry if
you can hear my tummy rumbling folks over the mic. I am really
hungry. It's lunchtime here. It's lunchtime. Come on. Right
question number two we ask left one fans how many races will
Ferrari win in 2026. Do I go for the meme? That is a real
temptation to go for a meme. Oh God so we've had we've had
four races and they haven't won any of those. We might have
another between 18 and 20 to go. Yeah. What do the people
think the odds are? As we see with our power rankings that
they tend to vote slightly different to how we would
think Ben. True. I'm not sure this is a tough one. I'm not
sure about this. We'll reveal our answers in 321
So you've gone with two. Yeah. I've gone with one. It shows
optimism. I can't believe you've gone with two wins and you're
the optimistic one. Well, yeah, I'm trying to think of what
the people would think. What I would think how what do the
people think that's a great question. If you said they will
win three races. You get one point. That's the fourth best
answer. Third best answer. They will win no races. That gets
you two points. That's the meme. A lot of different numbers
in this one. Second place. So you'll get three points. If
you said they will win one race, which I did. So I will. I'll
add that to my tally, but this is a recurring theme, Sam,
because you said that they will win two races and that was
the top answer. So four points if you said Ferrari will win
two races this year. Nice. Do I need to actually to keep
in count or is someone else? I'm keeping count. Oh, goodness
for that. Someone asked, by the way, is this a trick
question, which is a very valid question. Oh, Ferrari.
Question number three. We asked F1 fans which current F1 team
would throw the best end of season party? Oh, that's really
tricky. Yeah, it is. Would spaghetti dinner lady be any
of them? Is that what you're going by? Well, you know, it's
I think it's a fair point here. Right. Okay. I have an answer.
Okay, we'll reveal our answers to question number three in
321 Oh, we're the same. We're the same. So you've
got we're you've gone for Red Bull. I've gone for Red Bull as
well. What's that? Good answer. Here we go. You get one point
if you said racing bulls. It's going to be the winning team,
is it? Bless him. You get two points. I could consider this
one. You get two points if you said McLaren work on my list.
I was considering that three points. If you said Red Bull.
So not the top answer. Well done. If you did get the top answer
which was Cadillac. Wow. Okay. Shout out to the person who
said asked the mind because the money clearly isn't going
towards anything else. Yeah. What do you mean? It went towards
all of those zero upgrades at the Miami GP. I thought I
mentioned spaghetti dinner lady. I thought that's why Ferrari
might get a bit more of a shout. Not pasta. You know what?
No party is complete without a bit of pasta. And pasta makes
you go faster. So they must start eating it because clearly
they're neglecting their natural dish. Pasta. Right.
Question number four. We asked F1 fans what is the most
overrated circuit on the current calendar? Oh, but we'll get
to the psyche of the game to the minds of the people, Sam.
You know, no. Psychological warfare here, Ben. That's what
we do best. You're so quick on your answer. Okay. All right.
Okay. I'll here we go, buddy. Okay, here we go. What is the
most overrated circuit on the current calendar? Our answers
in 321 Oh, good. We've gone for the same again.
No points lost for me. No points lost for you because we
have both gone for Monaco. I was really unsure on this
because there are people that don't rate it at all. That was
where my that was my initial thought was I'll go Monaco
because people don't like it. But actually, is it so under
overrated by people anyway, that they wouldn't have said
it's so underrated, overrated. Okay, so you get one point
at home if you said spa. That's a fair shout. I do think
you know, spa 50 took at the time could be a bit of a dud.
Two points if you said Las Vegas and are you very much
disagree with that? You're wrong. Three points. I've got
to say this probably would have been my second answer if I
didn't go with Monaco. Three points if you said Suzuka.
It did come up in my top three overrated tracks recently.
But I think of all the questions we've had so far. This is
the most overwhelming top answer 38 votes if you said Monaco.
So we are both correct this time around a lot of different
tracks mentioned by the way. So the likes of Abu Dhabi, Miami,
Albert Park, Austria, Baku, Bahrain, Barcelona, Canada,
China, Zambor, Cota, Hungary, Jeddah, Mexico, Monza, Qatar,
Singapore, all of those getting votes. Also, six votes
for Silverstone.
That's almost every track on the grid. Someone's going,
I don't like that one. Probably should rubbish out of the
game or something of those six people, by the way, who put
Silverstone, we are banning five of them because one of them
did put in brackets. Don't ban me. So we are bound by what
they said. How are you? You know what? It might have been.
It'd be so hurry to just fill that out and they're not not
tell us as well. They would have been. Yeah, plays along
secretly. He wouldn't have voted for one vote for Monaco.
That's for sure. No, that's true. So at the halfway mark,
Sam, you have a lead of 15 to 13 high scoring so far, though
possible 16 points. Maybe we go our list as well. Maybe and
maybe that's going to be that myth is going to be busted in
the next four questions. Question number five. We asked
F1 fans which current F1 driver would survive longest on a
deserted island?
To be clear, that's an island without any people on it. Not
an island that is made of tiramisu.
Would you like that, Ben? You know what? That wouldn't be
a bad island, would it? I don't like tiramisu. I don't mind.
I quite like it. You don't drink coffee. Why do you like all
of these coffee things? In fact, I don't drink coffee. I don't
mind saying I don't like coffee. I just choose not to drink
it. Yeah, I actually think of an answer here, don't I? Yeah,
I'm sorry. I don't know about this one.
I'll stick with it now. Right, our answers in 321
Okay, yeah, that's the answer I probably should have gone
with. You've gone with Alonzo. I've gone with Nico Hülkenberg.
Hülkenberg.
Okay, here are the answers. One point, if you said. Max Verstappen.
Two points, if you said. Oscar Piastri. Okay, I'm sensing a
theme here. Three points, if you said. I didn't think of this
guy at all. Should have done. Three points, if you said.
Valtteri Bottas. Oh yeah, my guy would literally live on the island.
But four points. Which means only one of us is getting points
here. And it's you. Four points for Fernando Alonzo. Well done,
team. Well done, team Liska. Shout outs for Alonzo because he
just wouldn't age, which is very true. Alonzo because he's
already been surviving for so long without absolutely no
resources. Verstappen because he'd just devour friend Anfo.
And honestly, the right answer might be someone who just said
none of them have you seen the lives these men lead.
It's very fair. I think but hopefully Bottas will either be
naked or cycle around the island a thousand times.
Shout out to someone who said who cares.
That's our Liska's folks. I appreciate the honesty.
I think Hülkenberg would do all right to be fair.
I'd like you to. No one else does, but...
Question number six. We asked F1 fans how many drivers
championships will Kimmy Antonelli win in his career?
He could be around for another 25 years.
He could be. And in 25 years, I will be older.
We all will, if that's any...
Not Fernando. Apart from Alonzo, yeah.
His child should be older than him at that point.
Oh, it works.
This is a tough one.
Yeah, it is tough because obviously it's hard to understand
what the people listening might think.
It's quite benign, isn't it?
It's like it's just a random arbitrary number at this point.
Yes, but we'll have a go at guessing that arbitrary number in
321
Okay, very close.
Sam, you've gone with four.
I'm going with five.
Yeah, sounds really silly.
Four feels like a standing amount of titles for a driver to
win. Five almost feels like a bit of a lead level.
Just rid greedy, man.
Yeah, like, you know, there's not many that get to five.
Okay, I could really do with some points here.
So let's see what we're looking at.
So if you said four championships, you get one point.
I'll take it.
Yeah, you will take it because I'm not making much of much
ground up on you because if you said five championships,
you get two points.
Ah, all right, at least you're on the board.
So neither of us have got the top two answers here.
Three points if you said he will win two championships.
Okay, slightly less optimistic than we are.
And you might be able to guess based on the range that we're
talking about here.
What the top answer is quite an overwhelming lead here.
56 votes, three championships that will get you four points.
Wow.
Okay.
Yeah, it feels like middle ground.
Yeah, I like how you were closer to the answer and also
you got fewer points.
Ah, you know, that's my life.
Someone said just all of them, which I don't think that's
how that works, but appreciate that answer.
And also more than George, someone said, which correct
that possibly not quite a number, but thank you anyway.
Um, question number seven, we asked F1 fans, which current
F1 driver would make the best commentator after retirement?
Okay.
Do I go for genuinely speaks?
Well, I understand the game or do I think of meme?
Do I think meme?
Half of my life.
Do I think of the memories?
Always think of the memories after retirement as well.
Okay.
I'm going with my answer is not what my answer would be.
I am trying to think of what the people are thinking of with
all of these.
I think this person would be a good commentator, but there's
someone else that I would have maybe number one that I've
not put down.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm on the rooftop shouting out, Ben, I'm ready to go.
Love that in 321
Okay.
We've both said George Russell.
Jorge Russell.
Yeah.
Um, I wanted to say Carlos Sainz.
So did I, but I think for people will go Russell.
This is an interesting one.
Um, so you get one point if you said any of these three
drivers, they're all tied for fourth place.
Valtteri Bottas, Max Verstappen and Oscar Piastri.
We've then got a tie for second place.
Wow.
Three points if you said either George Russell or Carlos
Sainz.
Oh, okay.
Fine.
So those would have been my two answers, maybe your
two answers, which means we have been beaten by something.
It's close.
23 votes goes to, uh, the number 23, Alex Alban.
Interesting.
Four points if you said him.
He wasn't a feature in my top four.
I can see it.
That's fascinating.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, uh, I'm not in a good spot here.
Am I far behind though?
You might too many.
Are you sure you want to play?
I'm not going to recommend double points.
So I would have that would not be in your best interest.
Um, yeah.
One more question.
Uh, this is all, this, this is all wrapped up, but we'll,
we'll do the final question anyway.
Um, I'm fascinated by this one.
Yeah.
Honestly, this is just market research that we're just
managed to get into a game.
We're just, this is the survey that Stefano keeps talking
about.
Yes.
Because question number eight, we asked F1 fans on a
scale of one to 10.
How entertaining has the 2026 season been so far?
I do not know what to go because of that.
You'll understand my number in a minute.
Okay.
What have we said in 321
Yeah.
We've both gone with six out of 10, which I am absolutely
putting upside down if the correct answer is nine.
Oh, yes.
Um, back to front.
Nevermind.
Fourth place.
You get one point if you said five out of 10.
Two points.
If you said six out of 10.
Yay.
Three points.
If you said eight out of 10.
Wow.
And four points.
Said the answer that I was thinking I should probably
actually put seven out of 10 gets you four points.
Everything's always a seven out of 10, man.
Everything.
No one goes for six.
It's a length of my friend.
Yeah.
I should have had that ready to go.
Shouldn't I?
Yeah, you really should.
Um, actual, the actual average score, by the way, uh,
thank you for working this one out.
Kirsty, six point two.
So are we all right actually?
Yes.
I'm going to take that as a moral victory.
Only two votes for one out of 10.
And no votes for 10 out of 10.
I mean, I don't know if any season ever is a 10 out of 10.
Yeah.
I mean, that's tough to achieve.
That's every team winning a race for the first 11 races.
You know, so, um, maximum possible score is 32, I believe.
Uh, and the scores at the end, Sam 25, me 20.
I'll take it.
I will.
Well done, sir.
I concede.
I concede.
Bring Harry back.
That's what I say.
Oh, you want a challenge?
You want a real challenge?
Uh, let us know if you score more than 25, by the way, playing on at home.
Cause, uh, yeah, like I said, maximum score 32 there.
I think that's going to do it, Sam, for, uh, Formula fortunes and indeed this episode,
but we're going to be back on Sunday.
Hopefully you enjoy that show folks.
That's how your thoughts is a few open topics.
Um, let's go.
We thought having a guest on the show as well.
So it's nice to get some feedback cause we haven't done it for a little while.
So, you know, do get involved to give us some feedback.
Join the chat in the discord.
The links in the description below follow us on social media, like breaking F1.
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We'll see you again on Sunday for the next, uh, episode that we're going to be
doing, uh, can't wait to talk to you all day in the meantime.
I've been Sam Sage and I've been Ben Hawking and remember keep breaking late.
About this episode
Oscar Piastri’s potential Red Bull move is weighed from every angle: Red Bull reportedly sees him as a leading Verstappen contingency option, with Mark Webber’s agent link to the team. Hosts debate whether Piastri’s recent conversion rate and demeanor fit Red Bull’s mould, while also questioning the risk of replacing a difference-maker and the confidence gap versus other options. They also discuss how a Verstappen exit could trigger a domino effect across F1.
Original notes
With reports swirling that Red Bull are targeting Oscar Piastri, Ben and Sam debate whether this dramatic move would be the right call for both parties. Plus: Zak Brown reignites the “A-B team” debate, a game of Formula Fortunes, and an interview with writer Matt Majendie, who was granted behind-the-scenes access to Red Bull amid their dramatic 2025 season…
Inside Red Bull Racing: A season with F1's most thrilling team is available for pre-order now from book retailers. Find it on Amazon.
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The Late Braking F1 Podcast
The Late Braking F1 Podcast
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