XJ-S Anniversary Special: Barrie Thrussell, Former Global Aftersales Director, XJ-S

This is the Jaguar enthusiast's podcast. Jaguar enthusiast magazine has teamed up with our heritage partners, the Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust, to track the human stories behind one of Jaguar's best-selling model ranges. Over a period of nearly a quarter of a century in production, it evolved through V12's, straight six's, convertibles and special editions, carving out its own legacy.

As one of Jaguar's longest-running models, to celebrate its 50th anniversary, we're going to explore the highs, lows, and lasting impact of Jaguar's misunderstood masterpiece, the XJS.

Our guest today is Barry Throssel, a member of the management team at Jaguar, who play the key role in bringing the XJS to market. He arrived at Jaguar from Morris, reached the global after-sales director position before leaving to take on other responsibilities, but then he returned to the UK operations director role under Nick Schailer at Jaguar.

So as we mark 50 years of the XJS, Barry joins us to share his stories from inside Jaguar management during one of its most fascinating eras.

Welcome to the podcast, Barry. Hello. Hello. It was a story already for you in the motor industry then, before you arrived at Jaguar, so you came from down there in Oxford, didn't you?

Yeah, I came from Oxford, and our family were all in Oxford, and my mother used to say, as long as there's smoke coming out of the chimneys in Caley, we were going to have bread on the table, it was almost like that, the whole family were working.

The father was an inspector on the Princess R line, for instance, and stuff like that, so yeah, that's the background, so I've been in the motor industry basically all my life, I would say in some form or other.

So let's pick up. Where did I first come in contact with?

Yeah, so you're a bit in Caley, you're working for Morris. I'm assuming, back in those days, if you were anywhere near the Caley plant, as I think it kind of is even today still with the BMW Mini Plant, I guess it was kind of assumed that you would go into the motor industry.

You kind of knew that you'd leave school when you go into the motor industry, was that how it felt as a youngster?

Absolutely, very felt, and I went in as a technical apprentice, and a guy named Mr. Wormsley was in charge of all apprentices.

No link to the Jaguar Wormsley.

Very different guy, and I think he was very good with us, and we had a great time, and that was a very interesting period, but quickly moved away from that, and after that, it was into the business.

And I was works manager in the uni part, part step-over for a period of time. I did my stint in industrial relations as well.

That was my only departure, I think, and actually brought me to the Midlands, that job did.

So, yeah, so all sorts of bits and pieces like that.

Was Jaguar always a mark that you looked up to and thought maybe one day I'd like to get there?

Well, it wasn't that that time, I think, you know, I've been very lucky in my career with everything that's happened, things have come along at the right time, opportunities have come along at the right time.

And, you know, Jaguar really became of interest when I was given the service centres in British motorholding, so I'm sure that's what it was called then.

Because there was a real wish to get this big chunk of motor industry that was going all over the place into bite-sized chunks.

So, anything that looked the same was put together in an organisation, and there were these four service centres.

And one of those service centres was Kingfield Road, which was the Jaguar service centre.

And that's where I first came in contact with the XJS, and I had one for about four weeks as familiarisation, as I did familiarisation all through the product, right?

And was this pre-production then this car?

Basically, it was very near production. In other words, it was capable of being a familiarisation car and being good on the road, etc, etc.

And there were various changes that were going to be made to the interior and things like that.

But generally, it was together, and it was a good car to familiarise myself with the XJS.

And I have to say, it was at that time the Jaguar thing really started popping up.

If I had a favourite centre to be, it was Kingfield Road.

And everyone has a favourite whether they like to say it or not, and yeah, that's where the real interest came.

So, I had that job for about a year and a half, and then of course, your job, and how long you had the job, was very much dependent on who owned what?

Because at that time, John Egan was being asked by Maggie Thatcher, I think, to get in.

And they wanted to split Jaguar away from British Leyland.

Of course, there have been huge changes. There have been the rider report that had outputted changes internally, then you had Jaguar Rover Triumph, which was trying to be split-office.

Yeah.

It was so much turmoil, were you aware of that?

Yeah, because I was right in the middle of it.

And everything I was in charge of then, I could see going all the way.

So, yeah, that was a challenge in time, actually.

But I just hoped it would fall the Jaguar away, and it did.

You see the XJS for the first time.

Can you remember that very first day you clapped eyes on it?

What was the thing that stood out to you most about it?

I think the flying buttresses were clearly one of the things that came out of it.

And I have to say, it looked almost as though, even at that time.

It looked almost as though someone wanted to plant the engine between those two buttresses.

Which later on in time, you can see, but virtually every supercar, you've got a very similar layout, and then you've got the engine laid in that position.

And I was really surprised when I heard a conversation on a YouTube.

I think it was in Calum that said it.

And they said, the conversation went suddenly down the line, well, we did discuss whether the engine was going to go midships.

So, I was really surprised that that comment.

But it did look like that.

But, you know, the story was aerodynamics were very important at that time.

And I thought the car was very much like Marmite.

I thought there were going to be the people that loved it, and the people who hated it.

And I think that's where it came at, actually.

And the car had to win its way with all the other positives it had.

And I was thoroughly impressed with the suspension and the ride absolutely thoroughly impressed.

I'm so pleased, really, that the positives did start to ate way some of the negative on the XJS.

It was a shock, I would imagine, to see such a modern design.

And, of course, a design influenced by all sorts of different legislation pressures, like the big rubber bumpers that it wore up front.

Like the fact there was no convertible, like it got used to having in the e-time.

Did you get a sense of the shock and the sentiment in the motor industry at that time?

Yeah, I did.

But there was a lot of talk about whether or not it was going to take the place of the e-type.

I never saw it as that, funny enough. I did not see it as that.

Largely because it was a GT.

And I thought there's a GT coming into the range.

Very definitely a Grand Tora, which Jaguar didn't have.

The e-type was not that.

It was almost morphed to that by the end.

Yeah, it did with the V12 and the bit of extra length in the shell and everything.

But it never was that.

And the fact that I drove it made me feel totally different about it.

I thought, you know, this is really quite a nice car.

And so it turned out to be.

So that's before I came to Jaguar.

That's about it in a nutshell.

When I came up to Jaguar, I was invited up to Jaguar.

And I met John.

It wasn't Sir John then.

I met my beastly David Field and Roger Putnam and Neil Johnson.

All the people that I would be liaising with in the job of after sales director.

I was offered the job.

And I must admit, I drove all the way down to Oxford.

I just couldn't open it.

Good job. There wasn't a camera inside the car.

They were the thought I was absolutely nutty.

I remember we came up to look at houses because John said,

look, you've got to move up here.

There's no way I want you to go back because I'm forwards.

In the end, we moved to Canaworth.

And it was a good job we did.

Because there's a lot of flying going on early mornings into Birmingham,

off we go, and so on.

It's a very busy time.

The atmosphere during that time was tremendous.

The dealers were absolutely on our side.

Worldwide.

And the media were on our side.

They wanted Johnny Egan to be very successful.

They didn't want to see Jaguara.

Because when John came on board, it was really in a state.

So there was a great deal of portion.

And having the dealers on your side really makes a difference.

Really makes a difference.

And I can tell you that Hatfields, for instance, had John Williams.

He was the first guy to actually set up a soloist dealership

on the promise of XJ40.

He hadn't even seen it.

And that was at Liverpool.

I guess this is what Johnny Egan had worked hard to do up to this point.

And that is to increase morale both at the production line end.

But feed that increase in morale all the way through to dealers.

Because ultimately that's what passes then on to the customers, isn't it?

It is.

And I think what was really different.

I can always remember, I had not long been at Jaguara.

And I pulled up at a traffic lights.

And a car came up by the side of me.

And there were four guys in there.

And they went down the window.

And I was in my Jaguara.

And I said, we built those cars.

We built those cars.

Now, if I had turned up in Oxford, I don't think, yeah,

someone, when I was in my Allegro, would have, would have went in the window.

We built that.

It was too dangerous.

It would be different.

So.

Did you feel, as you were building this team,

that you were ever looked at a bit?

Because it was so tribal, what we're picking up from these interviews,

is just how tribal those former British layland sort of camps were.

Were you looked at with some suspicion because you were the Morris guy from Cowley?

Yeah, I think there was that.

I think there was that.

I did no lend very well.

And I did no cess very well from Cowley days.

So.

And.

The fact that I had the support of David Field and Mike Beasley.

And these sort of people helped greatly.

And I was joining the sales and marketing team that were really, really.

Solid.

So that didn't last long.

I think.

I think these days, you either sell yourself or, you know,

you leave people to make.

And so, so you do a lot of communication, I think, is very, very important.

And.

And involvement as well.

So how did we kick this off?

Well, the first thing I did, I was looking for things that gave me the biggest bang for the buck.

It's always been something I want to do.

And actually, going straight to the warranty account, is the biggest bang for the buck.

Because what does a warranty account say to you?

It says to you that people were very unhappy with the car, number one.

It says to you that the build is maybe not as good as it could be.

And.

It also costs a lot of money.

And actually, the dealers didn't like it.

Because they were filling their workshops up with work that they didn't get for retail.

So it wasn't good for them either.

But they didn't cry in their beer over that.

They knew we were trying to put it right.

So what we did, we identified a top.

Because we had to do this for XJ40.

And this was before it was launched, I had to say our team said to themselves,

look, we want to design a process whereby we can get intelligence from the customer

as soon as these cars go to the customer.

So I had a lot of discussion with RAC at the time so that I could get a major feedback.

As soon as they were at the roadside and as soon as they were dealing with the car.

Because they coded everything.

And they have got an absolutely magic bank of codes for repair.

And the amount of information that's available is just incredible.

I had to plug the dealer bit so that we were getting the dealer input.

In other words, I was trying to get ape there very, very early on to understand where the problems were.

We could then bring it back, Sir John then gave me access to a group of engineers

that were turned current day engineers.

So they were on current models.

Now that was a big step in the right direction.

Because what we did then is we looked at not necessarily the most expensive

problem, a combination of the two.

So you could see what was really taken the vehicles off the road.

When did the customers lose the car for a period?

When did they have a higher car which was expensive for everybody?

Because they all went back into the warranty account.

And at the same time we had to build up parts supply to ensure that when we found issues

we could quickly get in there and knock it out.

And that's when we put in place in Unipart overnight delivery.

So we put in an overnight delivery system in Jaguar branded vans and cut.

And drop them into locker areas overnight.

So dealers could actually order up to four o'clock, five o'clock,

and it would be with them that morning.

And we really worked on parts supply.

It makes me furious to see what's happening on parts at the moment.

Because it's affecting insurance on our motor cars.

Because insurance companies are having to put loan vehicles in place,

pay for their loan vehicles, et cetera, et cetera, particularly on older cars,

which are not under warranty.

Part shortage is the real issue here.

And we really put some attention into that.

And CES Jackson was aiming for on a certain group of parts, 94% first pick.

That was the first time parts had been 94%.

And we wanted to lift that.

So there was attention going into that,

attention going into receiving information from the field.

And that was all stored up ready for XJ40.

Because we knew when that car went into the market, we really needed to know.

But it immediately went into action at XJS.

And we got some real benefit out of that.

How was XJS in terms of warranty in those initial years?

Because if you wade through the media and the press,

you might get the impression that things, regardless of what model it was,

the British lady, things were always rubbish.

Was it really that bad in reality?

No, it wasn't.

I mean, you had to dissect the warranty.

I mean, for instance, one of the biggest costs in the States

was the fact that they all wanted wood and leather and all the rest of it.

And the States don't accept that these are trees.

They are animals, skins, and so on.

And if they were in some of the hot temperatures, you had a bit of splitting and so on.

But the problem associated with it is you could not change one piece of wood.

You had to send the set.

And it was great news when we found a way of actually putting the wood veneer

onto a more robust material, not on top of wood.

But that was a big, big cost.

And that was very much the case in the States.

That wasn't the case.

I was aware we had a bit of it, but it wasn't the case.

So there was some market idiosyncrasies.

But I think poor old Lucas had a bit of a battering at the time.

Prince of Darkness and all that.

It really did poor Lucas.

And some of our suppliers weren't up to the market, I don't think.

They would always say perhaps that they weren't...

They were asked to make things that they thought they could make better

if they were left to their own devices and stuff like that.

But nevertheless, I think...

Looking at XJS, for instance.

That's the one that really interests me.

There were some biggest on XJS that we had to...

But they weren't frequent.

Only the HE engine did actually cause some problems.

That was a German.

The Autobahn actually contributed to that a lot.

Owners were really... they drive their cars very high speed.

And when they come off at the exit, they take the foot off the accelerator.

A fuel, which is a cooler, gives the combustion chamber a cooler on one of the strokes.

It caused the engine to become very, very hot.

And it attacked the porcelain on the plugs on the bottom of the plug.

And that porcelain dropped into the cylinder.

And that could be very expensive.

So that was something we really had to sort out.

We went for different plugs and so on and so forth.

But actually the real big step was when we went back to a normal combustion chamber.

Well, I would call a normal combustion chamber.

So that was one, because that was very out of the V12 engine.

The other one was the likelihood of...

We had a few fires in the V of the XJS.

That John Sir John preferred to call them under bonnet thermal activity.

And I was the guy who took a fuel rail over to the NHTSA in the States

to tell them very quickly what situation was.

That was the other good thing about John.

He was very mindful of the fact.

It was better to go in and up front.

You always got a better deal.

They knew we were a small manufacturer.

They knew that we had to get those parts together quickly.

And so the plan we had to get the parts together quickly

and actually go into the trade and get that sorted.

And as you know, the V12 had the flat bonnet.

And that actually reduced the amount of air in the V

where you had a distributor and you had fuel vapor.

That's what it was.

And we solved that problem and got that sorted out.

And we got rid of it.

So those were the...

I think the biggest ones I faced.

We changed the design of the fuel rail.

Because of fuel rail on the V12 was hopelessly complicated.

We saw the earlier ones where the rain pipes were going all over the place.

And so the replacement, which was a square pipe going rain,

you've got a good joint between the drop on the injector and so on.

So we managed our way through that.

But we did it by letting the dealers know exactly what we did.

And all this time, the other thing that we did

I think was very, very important that they don't do now

is David Field, Howard Snow,

and myself, we rent round all the markets every year

and talked about the top 100 where we were in terms of fixes,

when they would get the parts and everything.

So we were very, very open about the fact that we had these issues

and we kept them up to date on those issues.

And the important fact was, one, they knew we'd registered the problem.

So hold on guys, give us a moment.

Don't keep throwing it through the door.

They had a voice.

Absolutely right, that's a good description.

And we had a managing director who wanted the customer to have a voice.

And that was a beauty of Sir John.

He really was that way.

So that's what we did and that helped us greatly

because we'd really got it up and running by the time XJ40 came along.

And the other good thing about XJ40 was that we started

to have a toolbox of parts that we could get put in at the new model year

on the XJS that would make it better all the time.

And the XJS did get better.

There's no question about that.

Well, of course there were other big changes elsewhere in production.

Things like bringing Castle, Bromwich on stream as a Jaguar-only body plant

which allows you more control over quality at the body end.

But also I think getting from all of our conversations around XJS

it was the changing culture within the company

from a very corporate-layered structure under British Layland

to eventually, as you mentioned before,

that family feel where it was felt they had a voice.

Do you think that enabled from your point of view

more honest feedback to come through about what the problems were?

I think it did.

People were more able to feel that they could express problems when they rose.

Well, I think it did.

And I think what we were trying to do was to get the guys on the production line

who were actually doing the job.

I can remember one occasion where we were getting a lot of leaks, for instance,

around the windscreen area on saloons.

I'll just tell you this because it's a good example of what was going on.

And you go and talk to the people who put the screens in

and they said, we thought we'd stop that.

We increased the size of the seal, you know, the gunner seal.

Why do you do that?

Well, the screen's not a good fit into the body.

Down to Castle Bromwich.

Come on, guys, let's have a look at the aperture on the screen.

How accurate we've got that and so on and so forth.

So we'd actually got down, we told these guys,

how much we spend on leaks.

You're expensive, you've got serious.

And they were amazed.

And I think it was the freedom of information passing the information right the way down.

That was key.

It was certainly wasn't silo management.

You know, we'd moved from from that and, you know, I was in all sorts of places

as was David Field and as was how it snow.

Trying to find out really what we were doing.

And David Clark on the technical side was doing the same thing.

So there was a very different attitude towards getting these problems sorted out.

And the fact we had an engineering group because everybody wanted to work on the new models.

It's the same as salesmen.

They don't want to sell the old models, so they want to sell the new ones because they're easier to sell.

It was the sort of same thing with the engineers.

That was a more interesting.

But we had a job that had to be done.

And that was to solve what was going on in the marketplace.

And no question about it.

We were cutting through it.

But as far as we were going, of course, customers were demanding more.

Because that's the market we were in.

Car industry were making better cars.

And always the level was going up.

It wasn't standing still.

So we had to move with that.

But the plan didn't stop us because it was the right plan.

It was really the right plan.

We looked back on some of those early years of XJS.

And it's no secret it had a troubled birth.

It went through its first few years.

Of course, been launched straight into the middle of a fuel crisis didn't help when you've got a big V12.

Later on, of course, the quality issues, as we've identified, they were fixed.

But they started to e-cow into the marketplace early on.

And of course, by July 1980 production actually stopped entirely because they were making more cars they could sell.

Which must have felt really uncomfortable for the team around the model at the time.

Do you have any recollection of those times?

I think you could get a general feel when I came along in 1983.

You could get a general feel that things were pretty bad then.

I mean, when John, the story was that when John came through the gate, if he could get through the gate,

because there were strikes.

And it was in a terrible state.

And as I say, everybody really pulled together.

And you've got to say John loves saying he saved Jacob, but he did.

He did, he actually saved it because that's a fact.

And there was a lot of people inside the company that wanted him to do well.

Because it really was bad.

But I think the problem that we had was largely because of some of the stupid decisions made to bring the British motor industry together.

I mean, that was a stupid, stupid arrangement.

And of course, there was the 400 million of taxpayers money that came along, helped us with all that.

There is no doubt.

But it became a much, much more professional unit when we'd really kicked off.

So that was what was going on inside the thing.

And by the buy, I was really enjoying myself because there were a number of things that had the opportunity to take part in that I really loved.

I guess for you as well, it was an opportunity to come in and make a real difference.

I mean, if everything was perfect, then I suppose you wouldn't have had much of a job, but to have spotted all of these opportunities to improve.

Must have been exciting to have affected those changes.

I'm a team player.

I always had been.

And our success at the RAC, which was brilliant, was a team that we built.

And the same applied here.

We had a good team.

The lads in the field did the job they were supposed to do because the collar can easily go round before you know.

They'd actually join the importer or something.

So there was all that going on.

Or could have gone on.

And they really did the team.

I would really rather talk about the team.

And I was getting my satisfaction out of the fact that the team were doing such a good job.

And that's why it was supposed.

But there's a couple of things that were interesting.

And it goes back into the racing program.

John Fowler bringing the racing program back in with XJS.

Or back into Jaguar through the XJS.

With the Group A was an exciting thing to do.

And Tom thought it was exciting.

Of course he did.

But in 84, little was known that we had a request from British American tobacco

to take two cars over to the Mercull Grand Prix.

And British Airway stepped in and gave support to get the cars over there and so on.

Tom said, yeah, he would like to do it.

And it became a battle of the big tobacco companies because

Malbra had won three years running with the 635 CSI BMWs.

And they were supposed to be the end of their reign.

So the cars went over.

So in black, JPS on each door, JPS and they looked absolutely fantastic.

And at the same time, John said, let's have our overseas conference in Hong Kong

and get all our overseas dealers and everybody, the family, if you like, to this event.

And that's exactly what we did do.

And I always remember, Tom Walkins show was in one car.

Hands higher was driving the second car.

I always remember the start and off went the XJS's and data cluster

and hands shut were driving the 635 CSI's.

And the JPS went off.

They had the fastest lap in here.

They were on the front row.

Off they went.

And the first flying lap was a long straight coming down next to the C-front

where all the gambling hotels were.

That was the rich part of Malco where all the Hong Kong people came and put their money

on the table and so on.

And they had the old town.

And you came off the straight into a corner and into the old town then they disappeared.

And the two XJS's came down there full too.

I have never seen anything like it.

Well I have in the Bathurst video and they were really, really going.

And it was a great sight.

And I guess they had a real sort of sense of confidence there

because the Macau Grand Prix wasn't in the European Touring Car Championship

calendar for obvious reasons, wasn't in Europe.

So it was a sort of invitation race that was side show to the championship

that the team were focused on.

But by the time they went there, they already knew they'd won the championship.

They were really up for it.

And I remember about halfway through the BMWs were catching up.

It was closing down.

Then some kind soul, a back marker, when it put his car into the wall in the old town.

It took half an hour to pull him out.

And by that time the brakes that were fast over heating on the Jags,

which were much heavier than the CSI's,

we got back to normal and off went the Jags and we took that first and second.

And I flew over with Murray Walker who was doing Hong Kong television commentary.

And we filled in with all the stuff imaginable.

And I've never known anybody who can soak up so much information

and actually remember it and put it in.

Oh it was just fabulous.

I mean it really was fabulous.

And the overseas people were delighted with it.

And actually our sales went up.

They actually went up, not greatly, but they did go up.

And that was one occasion that you'll remember.

The other thing was the fact that I used to have customers coming in

asking if they could put their cars into our factory workshop

because I had the factory workshop.

And I had some fantastic technicians in there.

Really really good leather craft, wood craft.

Really really good.

And we needed it because if we had a really difficult customer

bringing that car back to the factory was pretty important.

I used to be the first step if the trade couldn't fix it.

So it's a really good thing to have.

And I had one customer who won't come to see me.

He said Barry, he said could I come in and see you?

He said I own two XJS's, one in England or one in Australia.

And I'd like my English car to go through your workshop please.

And he's a very nice guy.

He came in to see me and he was caught and escaped in.

747.

And we took his car into the workshop and then we started taking care of it.

He dropped in to see me regularly whenever he was over this side.

And Roger and I were flying to Singapore.

And we had to go down in then called Mumbai.

And about half an hour or eight from Mumbai,

a stewardess came down and said Mr. Thrasur, I said yeah.

Would you like to come up to the flight deck?

And then you could, because all this, you know, now it's a no-no.

But you could, up I went.

The captain of this plane was my customer.

And he said, right, he said we're going into Mumbai.

He said would you like to sit in there when we go through and land?

I said I absolutely love to.

But his colleagues sort of took me through what they were doing.

You had two sides and then the two guys up front.

And we came down towards Mumbai.

And all I could see was a black sheet.

I said goodness me, I said goodness me.

That's cloud.

He said to me, he said the runway is directly below that.

He said we've got to go through it.

And he said it's not a cloud.

He said it's cooking smells and cooking smoke

from the shantytowns all pushed up against the fence around the airport.

And you know what, we went through there and the runway was there on the front.

I must admit, it was one of the, I never experienced something like that before.

And he then said well, you know, the other, the good thing here is we've got a coral runway.

It's hard on tires, but the plane stops quickly on this.

We can actually.

And so, yeah, the runway was made out of coral and stuff like that.

So that was a really nice experience if you like that I had.

And can I say during this time I probably had as job cars six or seven exercises,

one after another.

And I used to get cars that had no home.

For instance, there were two South African cars, right hand drive, B12s,

with four headlights.

And I liked the four headlights better than the single, the American, but these were controversial.

And you know, that was my job car.

And the one thing I did with my job cars, I was so proud of those cars,

they were always immaculate.

They really were, because wherever they went, you know, you were promoting the brand,

promoting the car and so on and so forth.

So I wasn't one of these guys, well, the traveling salesman,

that just filled the thing up with rubbish, you know, generally misuse.

I mean, it was a, you know, a very important thing for me.

And I reckon I drove about 150 to 200 days miles in XJS,

during that period.

And I absolutely loved the car.

My preference for driving and feel was a six cylinder car over the V12.

I liked the V12 a lot, but it was the real grand tourer.

The 3.6 although it was way off the power of the V12.

I mean, you know, I think it really famed its way later on

when I came back into Jaguar and I drove the 4.0-litre AJ-16 car,

which was, I think, best of the law, the celebration car.

So, and I found that lighter up front.

I found steering, pointability and everything was suited me.

I was pretty small guy, I was just a small guy.

So the other big complaint was the six footers,

always said this is a big car, but pretty small inside the cabin.

But for me, thank you very much.

What are you moaning about?

Isn't that a trait though of all Jaguars of the period?

It was, yeah, it was, it was.

It was, and so that was there.

And I remember also, and this is the last one of these little stories.

Peter Taylor and I, we had the job of taking customers

around Brands Hatch Club Circuit on one particular day.

And we were joined by the instructors who drove saloons

and drove customers' rent, and dealers were

bringing inviting customers to Brands Hatch.

Peter and I had exercises.

I'm on the day before.

We were with the instructors, showing us what we did,

because we wanted to drive quickly, but very safe.

And I really got to know the exercises during that day.

Peter was a very neat driver.

He was well known for it, very quick, but neat as well.

And the funny thing was, the only car that went off a track that day

was an instructor in the day, the double six,

because of the same thing.

So, you know, just a bit of fun.

But I mean, it was lovely to do things like that.

It really was.

And it was just, I'm trying to paint a picture of just how exciting

it could be, as well as the hard graph that was going on to improve the cars.

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What was 1984 then, your second year really in the role?

An exciting year all over then, because not only had we had the ETCC win,

great championship win by TWR.

And by the way, if you want to hear more about that story,

check out the other podcast in this series where we talk to Alan Scott,

the engine development engineer for the engines for XJS and TWR.

But you had that championship win,

but also other key things for XJS.

Firstly, as you mentioned, the launch of the six-ill-indiversion,

3.6, HA6 engine.

But also, you're now independent, British Leyland.

The shackles have been thrown off.

All of this happened within the space of pretty much 12 months, didn't it?

It must have felt like everything was moving at 100 miles an hour at the time.

It did, but I think the fact that we were already moving at 100 miles an hour

to start solving our problems and set ourselves up,

once we were led into the other.

And John was a good communicator.

And I think we felt pretty safe with him.

And it was all going in the right direction.

And if you get a feeling that things are going in the right direction,

you climb on board, don't you?

You say, yeah, I'll take this train, it's going really well.

And now, of course, you share options.

So you own a little bit of this company?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

As I say, it was tremendously exciting.

And they fought Camelon and bought it.

And instead of that great communicator, we had another guy who was a family man in charge.

And he wasn't quite the same level of communicating with people.

But what he did do, he knew a lot of their building cars.

But I did think then that actually the parts bin was getting bigger at that time.

And we started importing stuff, which I think in some cases just looked inferior.

And that was a negative.

But you didn't get so much, because I stayed for a little while before.

I got on OK with Bill.

I didn't like his management style.

But I got on OK with him.

I think we were going in the same direction.

He wanted to get the warranty down.

But I think that was more financially driven.

Whereas for me, I could see we were getting a double whammy.

We chose the warranty improvement correctly and put the emphasis on the right ones.

We were getting customer satisfaction.

We were getting dealer satisfaction.

And that was the sixth and end of scene in the dealers at the time.

What was the feeling you got from them?

Was it a welcome addition to the lineup?

I think it was, because it was...

I mean, the V12 was a big thing to sell.

And they were selling six cylinder cars.

That was jaggerous.

It was six cylinder, wasn't it?

XK and HI.

The feeling was that XK would come to the end.

And are we actually going to put in it?

I mean, what we had, both engines at that time, as you well know from everything that happened,

the eight put for those engines demonstrated quite clearly that they were easily coping

with the eight puts of both those engines.

Because, you know, you could have pumped those engines up to give bigger eight puts,

particularly the V12s.

Because at the time, for instance, we'd already started thinking about coming up to ACA,

XGR 9, XGA, and so on.

The whole range of XGR cars that was coming through, where the engine was being taken out to six later.

So we knew just how strong those engines were.

And Tom's work on Group A was showing through how good the suspension was.

And the Group A was also providing us with the option to give handling kits.

Put those on the price list and aerodynamic kits and so on and so forth.

So it put us into a totally different atmosphere, I think.

And the trade began to realize that 3.6 brought along with it, a whole lot of new things.

And they loved it.

They could never have enough.

I mean, the trade, well, aren't you doing this and doing that?

I mean, the fact that we are being pushed by the states very hard for a convertible

was the other issue that was taking up a lot of resource.

And the only way to deal with that was, you know, full-carbonate and talk to them about it.

Because they were the people who actually knew how to stow hoods and all the rest of the things.

But it was pretty obvious that we needed to do something with the shell itself.

Yes, incredible to think how long it took to get that convertible together.

And Carmen, for those listening, are wondering whether they've heard that name before.

Of course, they are the same coach builders responsible for cars like the Carmen gear based in Ozenobrücking, Germany.

And also developed and designed all sorts of solutions for British car manufacturers that even designed the TR6 for Triumph some 20 years before.

Absolutely right.

And, you know, the S-Core for Ford.

That was come and Volkswagen were using Carmen.

So, that wasn't a new thing, but it's pretty obvious that the only way of breaking through this,

if we didn't want to take up too much engineering time at a time when, you know,

I think the biggest things for XJS, I think it was very unkind on XJS to believe for everyone who couldn't get their heads around.

It wasn't a replacement for E-Type, number one.

I mean, when I learned of the programs that were going on in Jaguar,

there were programs going on looking at sports cars.

Yeah, yeah.

Of course, there was Keith Health, it's XJ41.

The coach had to run in towards the end of the 80s and onwards, wasn't it?

Absolutely.

And most of that got killed a bit by the fact that there was a bigger argument going on between the stakes

and rest of the world where rest of the world wanted a Porsche 911 Type Car

and the states wanted an S-L Type Car with all the boughs and whistles and everything that went with it.

So, what you end up with is something in between, which is where I think it was.

So, it was ditched.

But there was this program going on, XK27, that was, in fact, the XJS.

And that's the one that saw the light of day.

So, that, if you like, was a bit of a shock to the market.

What have you replaced a nice-looking thing like that with this thing, the Marmy?

Well, the stuff that you've hit on there, though, is that the important thing we always must remember from a British point of view,

is that we weren't really the market for these cars, because Jaguar said he didn't sell enough cars here in the home market.

Absolutely.

Always about what was happening in America, wasn't it?

It was 54%, and that was a real difficult situation.

I mean, if you had Trump in then, we'd been all sorts of trouble.

He's troubled some as it is, but you can well imagine.

And actually, some smart work by our finance director at the time,

where he bought forward dollars to the extent he did.

Yeah, because this is always Jaguar's Achilles heel, isn't it?

You completely behold to the markets and how the value of the dollar is against the power.

He bought forward dollars, and that really was a cushion for us for a period of time.

John Edwards did a masterstroke there, I think.

So, better be a luck on our side, some people make good decisions, and all the rest of it.

But I almost sum up by saying, you know, it was really the best ten years of my life.

It was so exciting, and that's the view of someone looking out into the market, rather than the market looking in.

But God, people did work, and it is only a small company.

When I hear that, you know, there are two hundred heads in styling.

At the moment, Jaguar, Jaguar, aren't I?

Yeah, it is.

That's almost as big.

It's incredible, really.

You went on to work for Halford's garages, and even with boots for a little while.

But eventually, the draw of Jaguar would bring you back, wouldn't it?

Yeah.

So, tell us a little bit about having come from the XJS era, and all those exciting moments of going into independence,

under the leadership of Sir John Egan.

When he went back, it was very much owned by Ford.

They'd been in for some time.

How had Jaguar changed in the time that you'd been away?

OK.

Well, an interesting thing happened to me when I had the invitation to go back.

Ford don't usually re-employ people.

And I had the opportunity of going back as UK operations director.

So that was almost like running the importer for the UK.

If you see what I mean, because it was a market complete.

The question really was, had it changed?

Yeah.

But not changing the way you think, because Nick, Shailer, actually wanted it the way to a degree Sir John wanted it.

I don't think he enjoyed colleagues jumping all over his cabbage patch.

He had firm views over.

And he rather enjoyed it.

Nick was a very nice guy.

And he really did enjoy that Jaguar job.

And I don't think he went about keeping Ford A,

but I think he had enough power to, you know, be able to run the show with 8 too much.

So I think the product was certainly getting better than really good.

Because we were learning of some of Ford's expertise in mass production.

So I thought that was really good.

It was so interesting.

I mean to get Jeff Lawson, who was good mate of mine, picked up the phone.

Barry, I want you to come down and have a look at this.

And there I was sat in a heap of clay with all the interior in place.

Do you like this?

And there was, you know, there was a propagastic in there and things like it was so interesting to input at that level.

I guess for those guys, when you're stuck in design, when you're in the process of manufacture,

you were there linked to the outside world for customers to the dealers who were on the ground.

You were people wanted to buy.

It was very, nobody had any problem.

I could never see an organisation in there that had all these silos,

where if something was agreed here, you would have to go up there.

It just wasn't like that.

And it's a great deal of trust at a low level.

And healthy argument, difference of views.

I don't think I've met anybody who worked in Jagger in the same period.

I'm still in contact, still have good contact with people I work with then.

I get the sense that you look back on it really fondly.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

If I was a dealer opening or something like that,

which I did a lot of dealer opening, show room openings and stuff like that,

at night, met their customers, so on and so forth,

a little speech and so on and so forth.

Kalana, this was the best dealer in the land and all those good things.

That's cemented relationships with the dealers that we go out there and do that.

And when I was eight, there was Sir John.

You know, he was great.

He sometimes made you feel ten foot.

I can remember at Mara, I lost the 3.6 on the handling circuit.

And I had Joe Greenwell in the car as well.

Oh, future chairman of Jagger, of course.

And Joe was sat by the side of me and I said to Joe,

I think I've run out of steering rack.

And it pirouette at the back came round and it went into the inner track and got caught in the mud.

And this guy came over, it was the trackside.

Came over with one of these big blue rolls of, you know,

it looked like a big toilet roll.

Yeah, the big blue rolls.

And he said, look, he said, you're going to get your shoes dirty coming out of the car.

And we'll get the car, don't worry about it.

Joe said, don't worry about the shoes.

He said, just pass the toilet rolls through the window.

And then I had to go in and tell Johnny Egan that he was the next drive of the car.

And I said, I've lost the car, John.

He said, are you all right?

And I said, yeah, I'm fine.

He said, I can get out of the car, but I can't get out of the service direct.

Those sort of things, you know, I don't care what anybody says.

They are, you know, a message that he's very confident in what I do and so on.

And no one can deny that that doesn't have an effect.

I think they've been stupid, if they say.

But that was the sort of, that was the reply I got off of him.

I mean, I didn't muck up the car at all.

It's just muddy, but...

Well, that passion for Jaguar Remains, doesn't it, with you?

Yes, it does.

26 years now as trustee of the Jaguar Day, my heritage trust.

Yeah.

Is that a real honor for you to do that?

Yeah, it is.

I think we're going through a very difficult period at the moment.

You know, we've got to get a good support from JLR, which we're beginning to get.

But, you know, they've employed a lot of people who don't know anything about Jaguar's heritage at all.

And that's not a criticism.

And we've put in all sorts of programmes in place to try and correct that.

So groups are coming over and having a look at what we're doing and so on and so forth.

But I'm also aware that we've got a situation now where

the latest news of 500 job loss isn't so on.

It's not good news.

And there's a new Jaguar somewhere in the office.

The news that the brain's over us, slip back.

But there's a line in the sand.

The last cars produced by Jaguar that had, you know, normal motor powers, we call it.

We've got those last cars.

And I feel whatever happens outside, you know, we can work with this side.

I just don't know.

In other words, I really don't know what will happen.

Are there any parallels between the reception that XJS got from those who are E-type fans in 1975?

And some of the reception, some of the commentary we've seen around Type 00 and the reimagination of JLR.

Totally.

I think anybody who really I would love to sit down.

And I could, I suppose, sit down with Roden or something, Roden Glover or something like that.

And just talk about what we did with XJS because here you go.

New car in the market.

What have you put in place to actually draw that, you know, draw that in that applies just as much.

Because they've got to really be on top of that car.

They've got to really get their name up in lights for reliability and all those good things.

And I think there's a, I think the market will be split in exactly the same way as XJS.

It was the design that was different.

Very futuristic, actually, because when I see the celebration of car, which I really like,

you know, where the sharpness in the, all been taken away, nice.

It looks nice.

And it's got a nice engine in it at 6 cylinder.

It's got a nice engine in it at 12 cylinder.

Much improved.

But you can't deny the fact that everything's gone with them now because it's,

it's cars are built on very accurate tooling, you know, very adaptable tooling.

I'm in XJS, right?

The tooling line.

It's not the XJS.

The tooling lasted that long, you know.

And it's a long time for any car to go.

Yeah, it is amazing when you look back at that rocky reception that it had as it followed in the footsteps of E type.

The fact that, as we mentioned earlier, it had launched into the middle of a fuel crisis with a big V12,

a very difficult period in the world markets.

But somehow, despite the fact that in 1980 production stopped entirely,

it came back.

It rose like the Phoenix, didn't it?

It did. No, no, it did.

And it became one of Jaguar's longest running models and one of its biggest sellers in history as well.

Yes, it did.

And that's worth making the point of it.

I'm an XJS sold a lot in a shorter period.

I think it was 66 years or something like that.

You know, but over a hundred, over a period of time on the XJS.

And I think there's hell of a lot of lessons to learn there, you know.

And they ought to look at that because, you know.

A quarter of a century's unheard of now in terms of keeping a model in production.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

And I think it's interesting you say that, actually, because that's, you know, when you go back through it,

when I started just preparing myself for talking to you, why not?

I have to say that the thing that was going through my mind is,

this is a story all over again, you know.

Something new, going to be Marmite.

We already know that.

I know that's not what's going to get built, but it's already Marmite.

And the other thing they've got to cope with is, in fact, they actually haven't got the dealers on their side.

They haven't got the media on their side at the moment.

And so the task is pretty big.

And they won't mind me saying that they haven't got the dealers on their side.

Of course, they've got the dealers on their side, I mean, the big groups on their side,

because they've been so successful with Land Rover, Range Rover and the New Defender.

But, you know, over the hill, you've seen some incredible products coming along from China.

And although they're not as good at the moment for all sorts of reasons, robustness,

off road and all the rest of it, I don't know why people buy all that kit, off road kit,

under a Range Rover or Defender when they're going to park it.

I really don't, I think there was something's going wrong here.

I, you know, and I drive, I've got, I've got a couple of cars, but I do a lot of fishing.

I travel to Scotland in a discovery fault.

And it's the best things that's like bread.

Cost me a bit of a keep up on the boot, but it's the best things in a slice bread.

Two doors over there, all sorts of little things, great loaded space and all the rest there.

And, I don't know.

I managed to move out of my discovery three without ever needing a lorry company to come and help

because you can get so much in the back.

You know how good they are.

I'm in the load ability space, it's just brilliant, I believe.

And it's so quiet on the road and crossy sign that car off.

You know, a Jagger, a handling guy.

I mean, you know, that was the first one he did on the other side of the thing.

And you can tell, you can absolutely tell.

Phenomenal car.

I suppose in your times as global after sales director, Jagger had something,

perhaps it doesn't have today anymore.

And I think it summed up pretty nicely in their period advert of the time.

For the Series 3 XJ6.

And it's a wonderful advert of a high street with a glass window.

Behind it is a Series 3 XJ6, and in front of it is a small child with a bicycle looking up at the car.

The scrap line simply says one day.

I think perhaps Jagger have recognised they've lost some of that sparkle.

But in XJS days, that car still had that, didn't it?

It was still an aspirational model.

And look what's happening in the classic world at the moment.

You know, you've got to have a good e-time to get your money

because there are a lot of stuff around it.

It's just not worth playing around it.

And you've got now a choice.

You go for the XJS.

In fact, when I was doing some work for the S really, just looking at everything,

I thought of something.

If I could get one of those collections.

The celebration.

Four litre.

1816.

You know, I might go back.

Relive a bit here because it's a great proposition at the moment.

Well, I don't think it's going to be for long, actually.

My dad has owned his XJS, Capulay, 3.6 manual for 26 years.

My brother grew up as kiddies in the back of it.

And it's part of the family, that car.

And as a family, we've seen how the sentiment towards the car has changed

because at the end of the 90s, when he bought it, it was an old smoker,

an old jag, what did you buy?

That full cost you a fortune.

By the mid-2000s, 2010s, it was, oh, you don't see many of them anymore.

And now, they turn heads just like an e-type does on the road.

And I honestly mean that.

I agree with it.

Having its day now, as a classic car, and as part of Jaguar's heritage,

people celebrate.

It's taken its place, though.

It sounds like we need to get on auto trader and go and get some bought, Barry.

So we'll go and do that.

And leave you guys listening to go and do the same, probably,

because if you don't want an XJS by listening to this episode,

I don't know what we'll convince you really.

Really in conversation, amazing insight.

So Barry, that's really much.

Thank you.

Well, that's all for this episode of the Jaguar Enthusiast podcast.

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XJ-S Anniversary Special: Barrie Thrussell, Former Global Aftersales Director, XJ-S

About this episode

V12 engine

convertible

straight-six engine

Jaguar Xjs

supercar layout

aerodynamics

suspension

Jaguar Etype

GT

Jaguar XJ40

Austin Allegro

combustion chamber

spark plugs

fuel rail

windscreen

British American Tobacco

BMW 635 CSI

Macau Grand Prix

BMW

grand tourer

Jaguar AJ-16

Brands Hatch Club Circuit

ETCC

six cylinder

XK

Porsche 911

Mercedes-Benz SL

Buick Centurys

Land Rover Defender

Land Rover Range Rover

Land Rover Discovery

Jaguar XJ6

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