A PicoScope is a brand of automotive oscilloscope used to capture electrical waveforms from sensors and circuits. In diagnostics, it helps technicians see signal patterns (like ignition, crank/cam, and sensor outputs) that are hard to detect with basic multimeters.
Key cutting and programming are the steps needed to create a physical key and then sync it to the vehicle’s immobilizer/security system. Modern cars often require programming through the vehicle’s electronics (and sometimes specific tools), so communication and correct procedure matter to avoid no-start or security lockouts.
Company
ASDA
They mention ASDA because they talked about this idea before at an ASDA event. It’s basically a prior venue where the same training concept was discussed.
A lab scope is like an advanced “oscilloscope” for cars. With eight channels, it can watch several signals at once, which helps you understand what’s going wrong when multiple parts are involved.
MT Pro is a specialized diagnostic tool that shows electrical signals. Instead of just reading codes, it helps you see what’s happening in the wiring and sensors so you can find the real problem faster.
Vehicle diagnostics is how a shop figures out what’s actually causing a car problem. It’s more than guessing—good diagnostics uses tests and evidence to find the real cause.
A case study is like a story about a specific car problem—what the shop noticed, what they checked, and how they figured out the fix. It’s useful because it shows the process, not just the final repair.
Term
professional forums
Professional forums are websites where mechanics and car people swap advice. The host is saying that not everything you read there is correct for every situation, so you still need to verify it with real diagnostic checks.
HP Tuners is a computer program and setup that lets shops look at what the car’s computer is doing. In this conversation, they’re saying you can use it to diagnose issues by checking live data and trouble codes, not just to “tune” the car for more power.
A diagnostic tool helps you figure out what’s wrong with a car by reading information from the car’s computer. Instead of guessing, you can check what the car is seeing in real time and use that to decide what to fix.
Vision 2026 is an event where people in the auto industry teach and share ideas. Here, it’s mentioned to explain how training can help recruit and support newer technicians.
Napa Tracks is a NAPA-related service that helps repair shops with training and support. The idea is to make it easier for techs and shop staff to use the shop’s software and stay up to date.
“SMS systems” here means the software your shop uses to manage repairs. It helps the shop keep track of work, communicate internally, and document what’s being done.
This means training doesn’t stop after a class or certification. Instead, the shop keeps learning and improving all the time so techs can do better work and use the latest tools.
A shop management system is the software that helps a repair shop run smoothly. It’s where the shop tracks jobs and communicates about what needs to be fixed.
They’re talking about Zeb Beard as a person who teaches auto repair. The focus is on how to diagnose problems and also how to run a shop, not just how to fix cars.
They’re saying that in both car problems and conversations, one thing leads to another. If you do or say something a certain way, it can cause a predictable reaction. The goal is to figure out what caused the problem instead of guessing.
Concept
knee-jerk reaction
A “knee-jerk reaction” is an automatic response you make before you fully understand the situation. In communication during auto repair, reacting defensively can derail the conversation and slow down problem-solving. The hosts contrast that reflex with asking questions to understand the other person’s perspective.
“Tone” refers to how something is delivered—pitch, emphasis, and attitude—not just the words themselves. In a shop setting, tone can strongly affect customer trust and willingness to cooperate during diagnosis and repairs. The segment highlights that tone can be as important as the technical message.
They’re talking about how to talk to customers in a way that doesn’t make them feel judged or scared. The goal is to keep the conversation respectful and clear so the customer feels understood.
A service advisor is the person at the shop who talks to you about your car. They help explain what’s wrong and what the shop plans to do, and they’re a big part of how comfortable you feel during the repair process.
Think of it like the customer side versus the mechanic side. If they don’t communicate well, customers can get confused or feel like the shop isn’t listening.
This is about how people talk to each other at a repair shop. If the manager only criticizes mistakes instead of explaining what needs to change, workers may stop caring and do the bare minimum or mentally check out.
Napa AutoCare is a program from NAPA that helps repair shops train their technicians. The idea is to get new techs ready faster and help current techs work more confidently and accurately.
Fast Track Assessments is a way to figure out what a technician can already do and what they need to learn next. It’s meant to prevent mistakes on real customer cars by training people based on their skill level.
The Accelerator Training Program is training that uses tech like VR and AR to simulate real repair work. Instead of learning by making mistakes on real cars, trainees practice in a virtual setting and get feedback right away.
Virtual reality (VR) is a simulated environment you can interact with using special headsets. For training, it lets people practice repair tasks safely before working on real cars.
Augmented reality (AR) adds helpful digital information on top of what you’re already looking at. In auto repair, it can show instructions or where to find parts while you work.
AI-driven simulations use computer intelligence to mimic real situations. For training, that can mean more realistic practice and better feedback so you improve quicker.
An alignment is when a shop adjusts the wheels so the car tracks straight and wears tires evenly. It’s a common repair task, and here it’s mentioned as something trainees can practice safely in simulations.
Tech Assist is like a real-time helper for technicians while they’re working. It can show the right information (like specs and where parts are) and even let a more experienced person guide them.
Torque specs are the exact tightness numbers the manufacturer wants for bolts and nuts. Getting them right helps keep parts secure without damaging them.
Smart safety glasses are protective glasses with a display that can show helpful info while you work. In this context, they help technicians see instructions and data without constantly switching tools or screens.
Wire colors help you identify which wire goes to which system. In repairs, having the right wire info quickly can prevent connecting things incorrectly.
Component locations means knowing where a specific part is on the car. Getting that right saves time and helps avoid taking off the wrong covers or brackets.
Concept
System integration with information platforms and DVI
This is about connecting the tools and information systems a shop uses so technicians can find what they need quickly. The goal is a smoother workflow and less time hunting for info.
This is a three-step plan for training and support. First you figure out what someone knows, then you speed up learning with practice, and finally you help them while they’re working on real cars.
A learning management system is a way to organize training for employees. Instead of one-size-fits-all training, it can be set up for different roles in the shop.
The “Four Horsemen” is a way to describe four bad communication habits that can ruin relationships. The hosts are using it as a metaphor for how similar habits in a repair shop can cause conflict and slow down fixing problems.
Contempt is when someone communicates with disrespect—like looking down on the other person. In a shop, that can destroy trust and make people stop working together.
If the wheel isn’t secured, it can come loose. That can cause you to lose control of the car, so it’s a serious safety problem.
Concept
process type standpoint
They mean doing repairs the same careful way every time, not just “hoping it’s fine.” A good checklist helps catch issues before they become safety problems.
Term
mechanical specialist
They’re referring to the person in the shop who works on the mechanical parts of the car. The discussion is about how you communicate with the technician doing the work.
A pre-purchase inspection is when a mechanic checks a car before you buy it. In a repair shop setting, the same idea applies: instead of arguing or embarrassing someone, you talk about what went wrong using clear evidence. That helps everyone fix the process and avoid it happening again.
Instead of just saying “someone messed up,” you ask what step in the workflow caused the problem. That helps you fix the process so it doesn’t happen again.
Concept
common cause vs special cause
Think of it like figuring out whether a problem is routine or caused by something unusual. Routine problems mean the system needs improving; unusual ones mean you should look for a specific mistake or failure that happened that time.
They’re not talking about cars needing therapy. They mean using the same kind of communication tools people learn in counseling to handle disagreements with customers at the shop counter.
Term
break job
They’re likely saying “brake job,” which is work done on your car’s brakes. The speaker’s example is that brake repairs shouldn’t make your radio stop working, so the timing and cause need to be investigated carefully.
They mention the radio as an example of something that might stop working around the same time as another repair. The lesson is to figure out whether the two things are truly connected or just happened close together.
Concept
real-world diagnosis vs assumptions
They’re saying real problems usually build up slowly, and you learn about them by paying attention to small clues. Instead of assuming “that can’t be related,” you should listen to the timeline and investigate.
LIVE
This is the Automotive Repair Podcast Network.
Everybody, Karm Capriato at Vision 2026.
God, man, I don't know. This could be our eighth year here.
We're just so, so, so happy to be here.
Matt Fonslow is with me from Riverside up in the great state of Minnesota.
Was it cold up there this year?
We had some pretty good weeks of cold.
Sub-zero, sub, like negative 20.
It's one of the coldest, I think it's one of the coldest states in the whole U.S., isn't it?
I think, yeah, I think it's recognized as the coldest state in the United States.
Go further north, I think like Maine's further north, but it's surrounded by the ocean,
which is a big heat capacitor, so it just doesn't get as cold.
Yeah, there was a bunch of years that I, working for corporate America,
then I had to go to Minneapolis.
Even though there wasn't a whole lot of snow compared to,
I've been leaving Buffalo with, you know, 30-degree weather,
and I'm going to your place with all kinds of snow, and then there's no snow there,
but I was never colder in my whole life.
Yeah, we don't quite get the same lake effect, you guys.
Yeah, well, anyway, enough with the weather, it's becoming spring.
We're here in Kansas City.
I'm impressed with what I see.
I know you're teaching a couple of classes here, aren't you?
What are you doing?
I mean, that's using the word teaching very loosely.
Okay, all right.
Yeah.
You're sharing your knowledge?
I mean, it's not a lot to share, but yeah.
You're inspiring.
I'm definitely sharing.
You're dragging people over the line?
What is it?
What is it screaming?
What is it screaming?
I mean, by now, everyone should know.
I have no idea what I'm doing, but I am, yeah.
Scott Shotten and I are presenting a all-day hands-on pico-scope class
at Johnson County Community College all day Friday
and then Saturday morning with Andrew Sexton.
I'm doing kind of an introduction to key cutting and programming.
And then Saturday afternoon is the, I guess I would like to say popular.
It seems to have a lot of popularity, tech talks.
You invented this.
I mean, I stole it, but yeah.
We talked about this in an episode, I think we did at ASDA.
And I have to tell you, you're onto something so big here
for people wanting to come up and say,
I think I can be a trainer and give me a shot.
And that's what it is.
Yeah.
And also, I think this year in particular, one of the presenters,
I'm probably going to mess up his last name, so I apologize.
But Mike Biancare, I think that's how you pronounce it.
I think he's recognized by quite a few as being very smart, which he is.
But he is a proponent of a tool called the MT Pro,
which is an eight-channel lab scope.
He would like, I think, to start delving into a little bit more of presenting.
However, it's daunting if, you know, vision's putting out the emails
or the word that they are now looking for presenters, submit classes now for review.
He's looking at that going, I would like to share my knowledge about this tool
or whatever, how I approach a vehicle diagnostics or something like that.
But the class times are three hours, four hours, eight hours.
That's daunting.
I think I know this tool pretty well, but do I have three hours of material?
How many slides would I need or what am I going to talk about?
That's really daunting.
What's the stopgap?
How can I take somebody that maybe has a passion for it
and maybe ends up being brilliant at it, which I think you will be.
But how do we get him into the fold a little bit?
How do we give him a path to go, I don't know about three hours
and I don't want to be the solely responsible for this entire class.
Can I share it with somebody or somebody's?
And now I have to come up with 45 minutes or an hour or an hour and a half
or 15 minutes, whatever it may be.
How do I do that?
There's no means to do that.
And then that's tech talks.
Now I'm going to get however many people I need, be it two or six
or whatever for the three or four hours that we're in there
and they bring up something.
It may be a case study on a car.
Hey, I ran into this really cool thing and this is how I found it
or this is a tool I really like to use.
I don't think it gets used the right way.
Or I read a lot of stuff online, social media, professional forums
that people go about this, I think the wrong way.
Here's my take on that or whatever it may be.
So a couple of years ago we have somebody talking about HP tuners,
not how to tune the car, but how to use it as a diagnostic tool.
I learned so much in that class about a tool that I already had.
I find it's a good way to bring in new people into the fold
and if you're in the lobby here at Vision 2026,
you'll hear some of the older presenters, educators, whatever.
And I don't mean that like taking digs at them.
Nobody gets to choose when they're born, but they're on the way out.
and they're looking down the line. Where's the new people?
Exactly. And we talked about that and asked it
and I'd like to come back and talk about that.
But before we go, Matt has a podcast on the Automotive Repair Podcast Network
diagnosing the aftermarket A to Z.
Tons of fans, great content.
I want to talk about that when we come back.
But thank you so much to Napa Tracks for sponsoring us here at Vision.
Talking to some people about their SMS systems
and one of the things that they have recognized so highly with Napa
is their perpetual daily training
and in-field people to help them hold their hands
and get some of these features set with their system
and also some other really great sponsors here on the show.
Hey, stay ahead of the curve with Napa AutoCare's newest
auto tech initiatives, fast track assessments,
accelerator immersive training, and tech assist smart support.
The future of technician training is here.
Connect with your local Napa representative for more information.
Hey, let's face it.
Your shop management system is the most critical tool in your shop
and Napa Tracks will move your shop into the SMS fast lane
with onsite training, six days a week support, and local representation.
Find Napa Tracks on the web at NAPATRACS.com.
Hey, welcome back, Matt.
Let's go back just for a moment about tech talks.
Anyone over the years that you've been doing this
reach up into being a full-time or maybe a part-time trainer
that you know of?
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
I think some of them, starting out,
it was hard to find just people with limited experience presenting,
but I'd say over the years, we've seen them grow into it
or on their path to doing it.
And maybe it's not actually teaching full-blown classes,
but other means, other mediums.
Zeb Beard comes to mind.
I think we will see classes from Zeb Beard,
both diagnostic and even management slash ownership type.
One way or another, he will be...
He's so cool to listen to.
The thing I like about...
He's got that accent.
You know, I'm telling you, it's like a freaking Trump card.
I think I mentioned it in an episode that we did last year with Zeb.
I always tell him, when I talk an English accent, a Southern accent,
I'm drawn into people that don't talk like a normal Yankee like me.
Right.
Well, it's kind of that Southern Arkansas accent
and then the attitude behind it.
And he is really no BS.
Like, if he thinks it, he says it.
If anything, say what you will about Zeb.
And most of it is going to be very good.
The one thing, he's like most people that are very likable.
He's just genuine.
What you see is what you get.
That's right.
He's a no-nonsense.
Very no-nonsense.
Anyway, I invited Matt into the studio because I found out that he wrote this incredible article on
your shop might need marriage counseling.
After I read the title, I says,
I got to read this thing.
2,000 words to come up to your particular point.
And there will be a point hopefully down the road here
that Matt's willing to share that entire article.
We don't have time right here to justify it.
The theme of this podcast for the last 11 years has been
listen to learn just one thing and please implement what you may have learned
and the same concept being here at Vision.
People are going to take a lot of notes.
They're going to hear a lot of things.
They're going to get a lot of things virtual.
They're going to record some stuff.
And if you let all this great networking and learning go to waste, shame on you.
And the only way this industry is going to continue to improve the professionalism it so well deserves
is we got to be doing stuff.
We got to do things.
You are so passionate about lifting this industry.
Your shop may need marriage counseling.
Where the hell were you when you come up with that?
Well, I was higher than a kite.
No, I don't.
Knowing you, that's the wrong word.
You're just high on life, I think.
Yeah, high on something.
I don't know.
I guess I just correlate a lot of stuff, right?
That watching stuff either in the shop, reading about it on social media, hearing about it
and hanging out with people.
It wouldn't have to necessarily be at trade shows or expos or anything like that.
But what I find that makes sense to me is that one, none of us were born with these communication tools.
We're not.
And then depending on how most of us were raised, the vast majority of us were never taught how to properly communicate.
Right?
At least not constructively.
And it's probably gotten worse over time as parents are both working in social media
and screens are what's raising kids.
So they're even less able to develop tools for communication.
Zero soft skills, because if you had an ounce of soft skills, you'd at least think before you spoke.
Think before you spoke.
So trying to qualify all this.
The one thing I see at the front column is you have a power dynamic.
And you see that in relationships.
And marriage is easy when to pick on where there's a power dynamic where maybe more traditionally you have the man is the one that works.
The breadwinner, the provider, and then the female mother, you know, talking like heteronormal, if you will, that they're raising the kids.
They're the caregivers.
That would be stereotypical.
It's not so much the case anymore, but there's a power dynamic where he is the breadwinner.
Therefore, he controls the finances and therefore is almost like the boss of the relationship.
That's 20 years ago.
Right. But we still have a dynamic and we can roll that however you want.
It might be now the woman's a breadwinner.
It may have nothing to do with the breadwining.
It might have to do with other power dynamics.
And those shift, those may shift where, and I'm not saying that's wildly unhealthy, but we have a power dynamic.
And therefore that changes how you communicate.
And now you're leveraging that power depending on how you want to do that.
Because of that, we'd never really learned to validate.
And that's a word that gets, I don't know if we say it enough.
And when we do, I don't know that we say it with intention.
But you can validate somebody's feelings without agreeing with them.
And I think that's the issue is we very rarely talk to people about how we feel or how something made us feel.
And for men, talking about feelings is that might as well be a third language.
It's probably easier for all of us to go learn Latin than to talk about our feelings.
So we never learned to do that.
And then most of us, especially in this profession, we're fixers, right?
We analyze, we fix.
There's a cause and effect.
So you come to me and say, hey, Matt, the other day when you said something,
it really kind of made me feel bad about myself or it hurt my feelings or made me feel really sad.
My knee-jerk reaction is to go, well, that's not what I meant and how you got there.
I don't know how you got there, but this is what I meant.
And I'm breaking apart the conversation that led to your feeling rather than saying,
like, because I care about you and we're friends and all that saying, I'm really sorry about that.
I wouldn't want to hurt your feelings.
Can you tell me more about that?
How did that happen?
What did I say?
Was it sometimes it's not even what you say, it's how you say it, which I am very guilty of.
It's not even what I say a lot of times.
It's how I say it is what really hurts or causes certain feelings.
Yeah, your tone.
Man, that could just ruin it.
Either the monotone or the no-cell or whatever it is they do.
Or the sarcastic or the way your eyes look or the rolled up mouth.
The rolled eyes.
Yeah.
That usually makes people feel pretty bad about themselves.
There's a nice way to say this and then there's the other way and I go with the other.
If only for personal entertainment.
But we don't learn to do that.
And we're never taught that and it feels wildly uncomfortable and it's weird for us to, as a man, it is very hard to go to somebody and say,
Hey, you know what?
When you said that, that made me feel a certain way.
And then that person to go, I'm really sorry that made you feel that way.
Can you tell me more about that?
And then maybe next day or an hour later or two hours later, like, hey, could we revisit that a little bit?
Because when I said this, it had nothing to do with that.
And we can do that later when everyone's more at a calm state, if you will.
But we're not taught any of this.
This is not taught in schools.
It's certainly not taught at home.
And you see this happen at the front counter where the customer is saying,
My car is doing this.
And I think women in particular, even if it's not true that the shop,
whoever the service advisor, the customer service rep, the mechanic, the owner,
whoever's talking to them, already there's the stigma of I'm a woman.
I don't know anything about cars.
Don't kid yourself.
Most men don't know anything about cars either.
But that's already a feeling.
There's already fear.
Now there's a power dynamic that even the person sitting at the counter doesn't know exists.
And I'm asking you to do this.
Now the response of however that is,
even if it's a question for clarification doesn't come off that way.
It comes off condescending and now they're on the defense.
The customer is being very defensive because they've perceived or interpreted your clarifying question as being condescending to them.
Right.
Because they're already scared.
They don't know anything about cars.
You're going to take advantage of them.
And if everyone in the conversation, but namely the customer service rep or the service advisor is aware of these things,
they can back that up quick and apologize, validate their feelings of fear, validate their feelings that they felt I was condescending even though I wasn't.
But we don't have that kind of training at our counter.
I've never seen it.
I have never seen it or heard about it.
The only time I've heard about is what conversations we've had on this podcast and on mine with Margaret Light.
Listen, there's so many service advisor training courses.
Coaches are offering it.
There's so many independence that are starting up to get ourselves, if you will, up to speed as an industry in this higher level of sophistication,
self-awareness, confidence, all that stuff.
And I think this is an apropos time for you to have this and bring this up because it has everything to do with relationships and communications and how it could be applied to our counters.
I love that part.
It's at the counter.
It's in the shop.
It's in the business.
The dynamic between the front and the back and the front of house and the back of house and the office.
If we don't work on that, the business is failing unless we work on it.
How about that?
I can't speak for you specifically.
You're not so terribly much older than I am, but the way you were raised, the communication was probably minimal.
There was expectations of you and when you failed those expectations, you might be of the generation where the leather strap or the switch was used.
You heard?
No, I don't.
I'm guessing.
I'm guessing generation-wise.
The belt buckle jingle?
Yep.
Scared the crap out of it.
Right.
My parents, that's how they were raised.
The belt was used often.
And for infractions, we'd probably never consider.
I deserved it, actually.
But that's how they perceived it, right?
We learned so much about communications by observing.
I mean, they didn't sit down and teach us.
We observed.
There was a level of integrity and honesty and ethics that just threw us assimilation.
And I'm not saying that we're not doing it today, but there's that dynamic, I think, of you saying, of social media that says,
not don't worry about that.
Well, I think what happens is it gets worse.
Not that the corporal punishment was so good.
It has its own set of repercussions.
Then my parents, raising kids, make a conscious decision of we're not going to corporal punish,
or at least not to that level.
But then they unwittingly use shame.
And that my generation, I think, carries a lot of shame.
Well, okay, that makes it where we have pretty thick skin when the owner, the manager, comes over and berates us
because we interpret that as like, I screwed up.
I deserve that.
I had that coming, right?
And that's generally accepted as good.
That's a positive thing.
The next generation, they don't have that either, right?
So they're labeled snowflakes.
Don't get me wrong.
There are cases where I buy into that a little bit or a lot of it.
There's also cases where they were never given the tools to deal with that.
And shame wasn't such a great way to learn how to deal with it anyways.
Like just feeling really bad about yourself isn't so great either.
So now we have to have ways to communicate with them and get what we need without them silently quitting.
Silently killing their relationship with the shop.
Silently quitting.
We can't have that.
And that's what's happening because they're not equipped with that.
You can't go over and just say, light them up about some mistake they made.
Even if it's a legitimate mistake and it was a bad mistake and it could have had severe, severe repercussions to the shop.
Going over there and just lighting them up doesn't work.
They shut down.
They probably just go home sick.
They need a mental day, something we've never heard of.
You have almost destroyed them.
So now there's a different way to go about it.
And it's been around for a long time.
Like it's been around for decades.
And most of us don't learn it until we're sitting on a couch next to our significant others trying to learn how to better communicate.
Because that's why our relationships are falling apart is we never learned how to ask for our desires, our needs.
Needs and desires get kind of used unfortunately interchangeably.
Needs are Maslow's hierarchy, right?
And then maybe a few others.
And then there's, I greatly desire this.
And then your partner can say, I can do that or I don't want to do that.
And that's how it starts.
And then you learn from the Gottmans.
They're the science, kind of the scientific contribution to relationships.
Mainly intimate relationships where they have come up with over time of observing couples and getting to the point where they can predict with an insane accuracy who's going to be divorced in the next two years, five years, 10 years.
It's amazing.
It is amazing.
And it's because of that you would think we would slowly migrate to learning more about these facts, if you will.
Or theories and skills, learning these skills.
Is marriage counseling big today?
I have no idea, honestly.
It's got to be bigger than when I grew up or when I first got married.
Yeah.
I think it's more acceptable than ever before.
And I think some people are doing it, they're already in counseling earlier on in life for their own things.
Like we have a very anxious generation than generation before this generation.
And I know that's speaking somewhat vaguely, but people in there, I don't know, 40 and younger are more anxious than the generation before that.
So they've already been in counseling to learn to deal with social anxieties or just life anxieties, stuff like that.
So I think people going to counseling is far more acceptable than ever before.
I think before you went to counseling because you were broken.
You're messed up.
You need to go to counseling.
I'm going to counseling because I either need someone to help point out my blind spots or I need this toolkit.
Social anxiety outside pressure is telling me I'm not worthy or I'll never be like them so I get depressed.
Is that what this is all about?
That I think a lot of people feel like they're in a lake or a river swimming with or against the current.
They don't even know.
They're floundering.
Feel like they're drowning.
It's something they can do to keep their head above water.
And they almost need somebody to pull them aside and say like, well, one, you're not alone.
Two, you're probably doing better than you think you are.
Like you think you're drowning, but you're not drowning.
It's the water's three feet deep and you're choosing to be on your knees.
And somebody needs to tell them that.
And somehow the significant other family, very close friends aren't any help, it seems.
Right.
Sometimes they contribute to it negatively, like parents being critical.
Sometimes it's unwittingly critical.
I'm asking you these things or I'm telling you these things because I love you and I want to see you succeed.
But the way I'm structuring it makes you actually feel worse about yourself.
Therefore, down on your knees and the three feet of water feeling like it's everything you can do to keep your head above.
So the fact is, is I could come in with a little bit different.
It could be tone, it could be structure, all the things.
And next thing you know, they're standing on their feet in three feet of water.
The automotive world is changing fast and customers are expecting speed, accuracy and confidence in every repair.
To keep your shop competitive, your technicians need training that's smarter, faster and future focused.
That's why Napa AutoCare is excited to introduce three new auto tech initiatives.
Fast Track Assessments, the Accelerator Training Program and Tech Assist.
It all starts with fast track assessments.
This tool pinpoints a technician's exact skill level, whether they're a student, job applicant or a new hire,
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The beauty of what I'm hearing is not only on a personal basis, but Matt rarely does an episode,
thinks, writes if it can't relate to the shop and life in the shop.
In your article, you talked about how this applies to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
I never heard of that until I read it in your article. School me.
Running with the biblical nature of it, but the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse of a marriage,
the failure of a relationship involves, let's see if I can rattle them off.
I have them written.
But we have condescension and we have stonewalling.
There's criticism?
Yep.
Contempt?
Defensiveness and stonewalling.
How people display them and how often they display them is a really good indicator of
how the relationship is going to fail and when, because of that.
And those are the pillars, maybe not the pillars.
The constructs?
Yeah, those are really the constructs of most relationships.
Let's pick on stonewalling.
That's usually the male territory and a lot of shame.
So I would say that is my number one default.
So if my wife comes to me, maybe not so much anymore, but you're even not even terribly
long ago, but years ago, if she had something to say that wasn't necessarily critical,
I would interpret it that way and she could come to me with a feeling like,
hey, you know, when you forgot to pick up whatever when after I asked you that
made me feel whatever sad just would speak vaguely.
I wouldn't hear that.
I wouldn't validate the feeling right away.
It's like, geez.
I made a mistake.
I'm sorry.
I freaking forgot, you know, it's 5 30.
I want to be home.
I got to cook dinner.
I got to do all these things.
So yeah, I saw my watch.
I saw my phone.
It's 5 30.
I got to get home.
I got to start dinner.
I totally spaced doing it.
It's just super defensive.
She might say like, hey, hey, hey, I'm not getting on your case about it.
I'm just telling you, this is how it made me feel.
And then I would just boom, throw up the walls and she might as well not exist.
You felt bad that you couldn't reach your personal goals.
She recognized the point that you were late and all of a sudden there's a clash.
Even though you were both, you know, you were doing the right thing and she was just trying
to help you through the fact that we got stuff to do.
Right.
And actuality, the interpretation should be me of her is she is better trying to help
me love her the way she needs me to love her and not jumping on your not jumping
on your back.
Right.
And even though I messed up in something I did hurt her feelings, rather than me trying
to feel those feelings of it sucks to hurt people who loves feelings.
It just sucks.
I got to do more of that for Ann because she's always trying to correct me.
Right.
Yeah.
And that I never can do anything right.
Sometimes it feels that way.
That's why she's saying it.
But there is the reality of sometimes and that example probably doesn't qualify, but
there's times where you may say something and it hurts their feelings and you, you
can say like, I'm sorry, I would never want to hurt your feelings, but tell me more.
But then you have to come back to it at some point.
We have to revisit this because you're interpreting in that way sucks for
me because I had zero intentions.
This is what I meant by that.
That has to be talked about in the moment is probably is absolutely not the time to do
that.
Right.
And when somebody comes to you with their feelings is exactly not the time to start talking about
yours.
If you have feelings, fine, write it down, come back to it.
Don't talk about it at that point.
But with those, those four horsemen with the condescension and the criticism and
the stonewalling, the defensiveness, you can watch this in the shop all day
every day.
Right.
It happens in the counter.
It happens in the office.
It happens in the back.
So, so it's just like take your shop for an example and you see this stuff going on.
Oh, we're also well adjusted.
This, this doesn't qualify.
Of course.
I'm sorry.
You're perfect.
Let's pick another shop.
Shop B.
As he has tech a tech B.
We have shop a shop B.
Okay.
Let's go to shop B.
Shop B.
It's always shop.
The imaginary Riverside.
How do we, or you in recognizing this, you realize it's going on and you see some of
this percolating, have you gotten involved?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I don't want to make it sound like it's so strategic because it wasn't.
It's more just trying to be very subtle with it.
And a lot of it was just through my own, like getting better about it at
home translates to getting better at work.
Ah, I like that.
I like that a lot.
Honestly, that's it.
If it's working at home, you know, you could bring it to, at home, bring it to
work.
Correct.
And maybe at work, it isn't so much defensiveness, but it could be stonewalling.
It could be criticism.
Like criticism is really hard.
You feel like you're in a somewhat no-nonsense environment.
So therefore I'm trying to be no-nonsense, but it is actually quite critical.
And it's not even criticism by itself is bad.
It's criticism with condescension.
That's the damaging stuff.
Like at some point, we're going to have to be critical.
We're going to have to call people out on their stuff.
That's double bad.
You have to.
That's double bad.
Right.
But if you're doing it from a place of superiority, now you got a problem.
You're creating a problem.
And people don't generally respond well to that.
Marriage counseling for a business.
Think about it.
Really.
It translates.
Can you imagine getting together with the entire team and have a
Margaret Light sit in front and said, listen, I've hung out for two
days.
So I felt I saw, let's talk about how we can sit by the campfire and sing
kumbaya.
Now I know that sounds a little tongue-in-cheekish, but how much better
can the company be in its communication skills and serving the
customer, the level of professionalism by getting rid of criticism,
contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling.
If you can fix it at work, maybe you could take it home.
Instead of saying, I did it at home.
I could bring it to work.
It doesn't matter where you start fixing it.
Yeah.
And maybe not to this degree, but I'm going to compare it a little bit.
And I don't want it to be like apples to apples.
It's not.
It can't be.
But one mantra is good therapists have good therapists.
Right?
That's one.
And two, oftentimes we're in conversations about certain
entities, certain professions like law enforcement.
They should all have regular counseling.
You cannot deny that that job oftentimes you see the worst of
people.
You see people at their worst and it starts to affect you.
They need a way to go and have those blind spots checked tool
kits given to be able to re-center.
That should happen.
Right?
But why doesn't that translate to the shop?
Why wouldn't we ever consider on retainer a therapist of
some sort, a counselor of some sort?
And maybe it isn't every week.
I don't know.
Maybe it starts out every week, but everybody has access.
All right.
Stop.
It's not a sign of weakness.
No.
To want to have this done.
And in fact, just watch police shows on TV.
Pick one because there's a million of them out there.
How often after two or three episodes in a row, somebody
needs to go to speak to someone because they shot
somebody, something happened.
The older generation is no, no, no.
They don't need this stuff.
And the younger generation seems to be more pliable and
they want it.
They want to talk to someone.
I think it's a brilliant idea of being able to talk out
your feelings, especially if you don't know how to verbalize
them with anyone.
Yeah.
Verbalize them, communicate them.
It gets abused, the I feel statements, but it's true.
And you don't have to say those verbatim, but it's
really coming in with a feeling, not saying, hey, you
did this.
Maybe you say, this happened.
Let's talk about it.
You were mean when you said that.
That doesn't work.
Right.
No, I wasn't.
What are you talking about?
You hurt my feelings.
I can't argue that.
Right.
And I shouldn't.
I shouldn't want to.
The other thing is, like you said, you brought up
weakness.
That's interesting.
We should know this by now.
I think generations ago, toughing it out, that was
viewed with respect.
Like that person, they went through hell.
I mean, oh, whatever it is.
And they came out the other side.
How do you know?
And you never heard them complain.
Yeah.
How do you know they came out whole?
Right.
They're so freaking destroyed inside, but they put up
a really good facade.
Asking for help is not a lot of times.
Most of the time is not a sign of weakness.
That's a sign of strength because now I've had
to check my ego.
I can do this all by myself, but I can't.
How could I?
How could I possibly be my best counselor?
I'm the worst.
I'm the easiest person to lie to.
And I'm really good at lying to myself.
Asking for help is often a massive sign of strength.
It doesn't matter what everyone else thinks.
They don't.
They can't know, but you have to know.
Sometimes asking for help is a massive sign of
strength.
It doesn't matter if it's this for communication.
It could be for a substance use disorder.
Finally admitting I need this.
I can't control this anymore.
I never could.
Nobody could.
I have to ask for help.
And that is a massive, huge sign of strength.
Like I've had to accept my lack of ability in this.
My lack of skill, my lack of knowledge.
Well, I can't do this alone.
The level of professionalism in our industry
that we have to all work toward
can't get done without the ego being dropped
and for people recognizing,
listen, I started my business.
I never, I never went to, I never read a business book.
I've never gone to a conference,
but it's time that I learn how to be a better businessman.
There's all kinds of ways to learn that.
The podcast network perfect place for it.
I know coaches that have coaches.
And in fact, what I think you're doing
and we're saying in this podcast episode to owners.
If you have a coach, that's great.
But you may, this person may be driving
numbers and KPIs and processes
and systems and finance,
but not necessarily will they always help you
with the people's side of you
or the emotional bank account
that could be weak and lacking
as you're trying to build the business over here.
How hard is it to find a therapist?
You pick up the phone, you talk to people.
Hey, do you have a therapist?
Are you kidding me?
What are you kidding me?
How do we, let's talk about how would we start
as a shop owner, as a lead specialist in the base?
How do we start?
My knee jerk is we all start writing letters
to Margaret Light to start some network,
like better help for auto repair shops
that they can find therapists.
But it's like looking for anything, right?
You're gonna start out probably on Google,
Google reviews, referrals, stuff like that.
And then you're gonna try to find somebody
that you vibe with, I guess, for lack of a better word
or maybe vibe isn't a good word
because you can be with a therapist
that you get along with
and you feel like a friend,
but they never push you and they need to push you.
They need to forge a relationship
with you of some degree that you care about.
And then they gotta start pushing you.
They have to start giving you some toolkits
and demand of you that you use them
and put them into practice.
Because otherwise you're just spending an hour,
however many times a month or whatnot,
shooting the breeze with a friend
that pats you on the back and you feel better,
but you're not getting out of it.
But that's a disinterested party
that has nothing at stake in family
and or in business that allows you
to at least get something off of your chest.
That's not valuable?
It's valuable to a degree,
but it's not gonna help you.
It'll make you feel better in the moment
but it's not gonna make you better.
It's a momentary good feel.
I released.
It's like going to confession.
But you never figured out what led to it
or what's your contribution to it?
It's like going to confession.
Bless me, Father.
I've used the Lord's name in vain 10 times.
You go back in two weeks and you say,
I've used the Lord's name in vain 10 times.
You just keep doing it.
Yeah, say 10 Hail Marys.
At some point, when does he pull you aside
and say, hey, you know what, come to my office.
We need to talk about this.
Tell me about your day.
This was a strange analogy.
Not really.
I mean, it's kind of what it is.
You call up a friend and it's like, man,
today sucked at work.
One of my employees left lug nuts loose
and that wheel could have came flying off.
Could you even imagine?
Stuff like that.
And then they're just like coaching you
through it a little bit
and you feel better in the moment.
Okay, I probably won't fire him now.
But you don't go back and do the process
of what led to the loose lug nuts
from a, you know, process type standpoint.
And then also, do you ever address the part
where you went and screamed at the top of your lungs
to this technician or technical specialist?
It'd be a mechanical specialist, technically, right?
You never address how you screamed
at the top of your lungs to this mechanical specialist
in front of everybody
about how they could have killed somebody
and ruined the reputation of the shop
and nobody leaves lug nuts loose
and how dare you, all these things.
Like of all the things to forget,
that's what you're going to forget.
You're going to maybe look at the process of
we got to stop taking this person off cars
to go do something else, give people rides,
go pick up parts, whatever it may be.
But you never address the part
where you made a fool of them in front of everyone
or you made an example of them or whatever
took out your fears on them,
made them feel extremely small
and horrible and shameful and all the things.
You never addressed that.
And also, how could you have handled that better?
Like, do you really think they left them loose on purpose?
You can take them back to your office
and explain to them the gravity of that mistake
without doing it in front of everybody,
without making them feel shameful,
especially if it's somebody that just
rarely makes mistakes.
You can't remember the last time they had a comeback
or something was done wrong.
You could come to them with support,
like, you know, I'm glad that they didn't go out the door
or good catch or this good thing.
So-and-so caught that.
And then don't worry about it.
Like, I'm glad you feel bad about it because you care,
but I don't feel bad about it
because I know you wouldn't try that on purpose.
And you're a good tech.
You're a good mechanic.
You're a good mechanical specialist.
You do a good work here.
I'm not worried this is ever going to happen again.
Just take it easy, right?
And I'm not saying, like, kid-glove things.
I'm just saying you can come in
from an angle of support in front of everybody
and then pull them off to the side in private
and just the gravity of that,
like, you know, this could have been bad.
And I know, I know, okay, well, I don't-
I don't need you to feel bad then.
Exactly right.
Now ask them, like, what part of the process
do you think led to that?
Now we're going to go down the rabbit hole
of common cause, special cause, but...
How did it break down?
What do you think happened?
And honestly, boss, I just spaced it.
I can't tell you why.
Matt, can we do this stuff in the real world?
Yeah, absolutely.
So please use this episode to look deep inside
and do some of the things that Matt's suggesting.
His 2000-word article, hopefully, Matt,
is available in some way to get it downloaded and online
because we're not doing it justice
because you hammered a lot of great stuff in that article,
the what, bends, where, and hows in it
as you're talking about criticism, contempt, defensiveness,
and stonewalling.
And isn't anyone listening to this episode
that can't relate, that they continue to do this stuff
or over and over again,
or maybe when you were a younger person
and now you've kind of matured
and you've grown and you've seen different parts of life,
which is allowing you to make yourself
a better, more compassionate person.
And if you're the leader of the operation,
you do it for the sake of all your peoples.
You do it for the sake of the client.
You do it for the sake of...
You'll never hire really good people
who find out that there's a unrest inside the business
because we can't seem to come to terms
with the loosey-goosey stuff
that we need marriage counseling for.
Business counseling.
Maybe that's the right words.
Maybe you need business counseling.
No, it's not coaching.
It's all to do with emotions
and how people feel
and how we make them feel.
And we'd like to talk a lot of crap about culture.
Oh, our shop culture.
Oh, you got to improve your culture.
Well, there it is.
A really big freeway to a better culture.
Exactly right.
Exactly right.
Maybe that's part of the title of this episode.
Improving your culture with marriage counseling.
That's a good start.
But you know what?
I'm almost to the point where...
And we talk a lot about culture on the podcast.
We did tons of episodes.
And I'm wondering if it's just...
Well, yeah.
It's...
I don't want to listen.
I don't want to hear it.
And part of my concern is,
and maybe we should have led with this,
is that you could take this...
I mean, I love sarcasm.
Probably more than I should.
You know what?
I really do.
You're the king of it.
I wish.
No, you are.
I don't know if that's good.
We're voting it.
I'm worried that listeners,
if they don't make it to this point,
go to a little bit of an extreme.
And it's not a little bit.
It's a lot of bit of an extreme
that somehow the shop will have to get
a sharing stick or a sharing wrench
that we hand around in a little
sharing circle.
No, that's not what we're talking about.
We're talking about these little interactions.
And some of them big,
but a lot of them are just little interactions.
And it's just changing your delivery a little bit.
It's changing your responses a little bit.
You could do this as a leader,
manager, owner, whatever.
Shop foreman.
You could do little things.
Nobody would probably even know,
except they just know they feel better about
work and being at work.
And they feel better about coming to you
with more and more things.
All of a sudden, you're kind of thinking to yourself,
like the open door policy,
nobody ever used to come into the open door
unless they were just steaming mad.
And hey, you haven't reviewed me in two years.
I haven't had a raise.
They come in after they've carpet baked
for how long and they're just
explode into your office.
Now you realize those explosions
are almost non-existent
and they're coming in more often.
That's what you would recognize as a leader.
And the other things you just notice
at the front counter, there's not that
shops have it happen a lot,
but minimal if any meltdowns from customers
or just really tense,
like maybe we don't see the dramatic,
you know, reality TV meltdowns
at the front counter ever,
but there's definitely tense moments.
There's definitely times where
now that customer isn't our customer anymore.
They just kind of silently left.
Well, that doesn't happen so much anymore.
Our customers kind of are our customers
because they feel safe.
They come to the shop feeling safe.
They're talking to whoever is behind the counter,
male or female.
You know, typically we associate females
behind the counter as being a little bit better
or a lot better at it than men.
But now it doesn't matter because
they've taken tools from marriage counseling
and applied it at the front counter.
And now it doesn't matter who it is
coming in with their vehicle and their problems
and their fears.
Maybe they brought their cardio
and it's a comeback.
Like, hey, ever since you,
but now because you have these tools,
the shop interprets it differently
and that customer feels safe telling you
about it that they're not going to get
the defensive owner going like,
well, that has nothing to do with that.
We didn't do that.
How could you possibly think
that a break job on your car
would cause your radio to stop working?
It just doesn't happen.
You wouldn't notice it in these great big moments.
You would notice it over time in these little interactions.
And that's real-world stuff, too.
But it is real-world.
It is real-world.
Ever since you did this, now this.
I know.
And don't say if you're listening
that has never happened to you
or you've never heard of it.
Oh, you're not paying attention.
Yeah, you're not.
Man, thank you so much for your perspectives
on everything, your wisdom
and all that you do for our industry.
And of course the podcast here
on the Automotive Repair Podcast Network.
Diagnosing the aftermarket A to Z,
we just diagnosed you today.
And the doctor here, here's the prescription.
Go find, go get a counselor.
Hey, thanks so much for this.
We got to figure out how to get that 2,000-page article
out there for people to listen to.
Maybe we can put a link to it
in the show notes of this episode
because it's brilliant.
Appreciate you doing that.
Thanks for coming on, man.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for being on board to listen and learn
from the Premier Automotive Repair Business Podcast,
Remarkable Results Radio.
Get your episodic education
on the ARPN listening app
at AutomotiveRepairPodcastNetwork.com.
Also enjoy the podcast
on our Carm Capriato YouTube channel.
Carm is all for advancing
the professional automotive service industry.
Until next time.
About this episode
Riverside Minnesota’s Matt Fonslow and Vision 2026’s Carm Capriato dig into why auto shops need “marriage counseling” style communication skills—especially at the service counter and between techs and advisors. They connect relationship dynamics to shop failures using the “four horsemen” (criticism, contempt, defensiveness, stonewalling) and stress validating feelings without agreeing, plus avoiding condescending tone. The conversation also covers how to train new presenters at Vision via shorter “tech talks,” and highlights Napa’s upcoming training/support initiatives (fast track assessments, immersive accelerator training, and tech assist).
Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACSWatch Full Video EpisodeRecorded live at VISION 2026, host Carm Capriotto and Matt Fanslow explore how lessons from marriage counseling can improve communication in auto repair shops.
The core discussion centers on Matt’s article for NAPA Auto Care's Insight Magazine, “Your Shop Might Need Marriage Counseling,” and the industry’s gap in soft skills. His central argument is simple: most automotive professionals were never taught effective communication or soft skills. In the past, shop culture often relied on public criticism or shame to correct mistakes. Today, that approach backfires, especially for younger technicians, who are more likely to disengage or “quietly quit” in that kind of environment.
Matt proposes a different approach: applying communication techniques commonly used in therapy to everyday shop interactions.
Drawing from the Gottman Institute, Matt outlines common communication pitfalls: criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling, and how they show up daily in shop environments.
Key solutions include:
Validating feelings, especially with anxious customers
Coaching without shame, addressing mistakes privately with support
Seeking outside perspective, using coaches or therapists to uncover blind spots
Finally, both Carm and Matt challenge the stigma around seeking outside help. They encourage shop leaders to work with coaches, counselors, or therapists to uncover blind spots and improve their leadership approach. Far from being a weakness, asking for help is framed as a sign of strength and self-awareness.
The goal isn’t to turn shops into therapy sessions; it’s to make small, intentional changes in how people communicate every day. The payoff? Fewer emotional blowups, stronger team culture, and customers who feel safe, heard, and respected.
