216 - Canyons and Hot-takes (Jaime Garcia)

Hi, I'm Scott and I'm Seth and I'm Jaime Garcia from the RaceFF podcast.

He's definitely distracted by something shiny. Yeah, a little bit. Sorry about that.

No, you're good. It's Seth and I were also talking right before we got on. It's like,

I'm tired because it's Monday and it's like just on the cusp of probably getting cold here

and I'm about ready for hibernation. I think right about there.

Because where are you guys based out of here in the Midwest, right?

I'm in West Michigan. Seth is usually a Texan, but Seth is in the Upper Peninsula.

Yeah, currently I'm in Northern Michigan with a bunch of family. I have like four college

students and my wife playing triple Yahtzee on the other side of the door right now. Just

having a good time. So it's loud. So if you hear any yelling and laughing in the background of

my microphone, that's my family having fun without me. Okay, so if we hear Yahtzee, it's not me.

He's really in the part of the country that should be Canada. Like the Upper Peninsula has no right

being the in the United States anymore. It's a wilderness. And you, what part of California

are you in again? Well, I live in a city called Santa Clarita, the best known by all the locals

here as we're right next to Six Flags. That's kind of the marker that everybody gives for this

location. So yeah, we're essentially two valleys out of downtown LA proper. Okay. So with no traffic,

it should be a 25 minute drive. When has there ever been no traffic? You know,

oh yeah, that's probably true. It was actually like that. That was about as close as it got.

That's wild. I love how you guys dictate time and spacing there too. It's like two valleys over.

It's like that's a measure of distance that we just don't use.

You got to go out there for those guys. It all makes sense when I was out there visiting my

daughter who lived just outside LA and we drove around. I was like, oh, everything the Californians

talk about makes sense if you spend a week driving around LA. You judge things by

time more than distance. How long will it take me to get there? Mileage is irrelevant. It's how

much time it will take to get there. And you know what time of day to drive on the roads because

it's better. And Californians are shockingly polite at driving. Thank you. I mean, I'm sure

there's exceptions to the rule, but yeah, no. And to piggyback off of that, my old job that I

just started a new one, my old job if you drove or drew a line directly was six miles from my house

and my commute would vary anything between 12 minutes to at worst an hour and a half.

Good God. This is wild. At that point, you might as well walk. I mean, it seems like that's quicker.

Yeah, no, it was during not one of the most recent fires, but some of the other fires. I live

like at a choke point where there's like a convergence of like five freeways that narrow

into one pass. So anything that happens there, it just like multiplies. Our insurance policies

look very different, I think. Well, I drive nothing but older cars. So actually, that's

that's a good jumping off point. Let's go with what's in our garage. I mean, you know already

that I have a Sunday Cup car as you've seen some of my bits that are probably still in Laguna on

turn 11. And then my SUV. What SUV though? I have a Lexus GX470. So like the Adam Jabez out there,

I have to talk about the deal that I got on it. So I got it for $7,000. Oh, that's a good price.

Well, but wait, there's more. Okay. Mileage when I got it was 325,000 miles. Maybe that's not a

good price. Go on. Well, you know, it's been ruggedly solid garbage on gas mileage, but incredibly

comfortable. AC works amazingly with that Lexus Toyota reliability on the AC. Yeah. And yeah,

like I average about if I don't get on the freeway, I get like around between 10 to 12 miles to the

gallon. Is that in the premium years of Lexus where you have to use premium in it too? I mean,

it says premium, but we don't listen. Probably part of why the mileage is what it is.

You're just hemorrhaging fuel. I've checked for gas leaks and there's none.

Those are such big cars. Like they don't, they're bigger. There's one of the few cars that are

bigger than they look like they are. Like there's just a lot of solid Japanese metal there. Yeah.

And it's all wheel drive. So you deal with like just a parasitic loss of

of that. I'm sure you had super low rolling resistance tires on there too, don't you?

Of course. I got the best $300 tires that I could get off of Facebook marketplace installed.

So there were the Toyota wide open. So just like some regular all seasons. Yep. Definitely no knobs

on those. Oh, no, no, no. I have gone off-roading in the Mojave Desert with them and not even

air down. I'm just like, it's a Prado essentially a Toyota Prado. It's going to be legit. So let me,

let me hear what you guys have on your state. Well, real quick, if people who are listening

have no idea, this is Jaime. Jaime has a podcast called race FF podcast. Yeah. I first met Jaime

almost two years ago in person at Thunder Hill for the grid life event.

Wasn't it a big willow? Big willow. It's one of the willows. Yeah. So many.

And funny enough, all three major tracks that I like have willow in the name. Yeah.

The city of willows is Thunder Hill button willow and then willow strings. Yeah. Part of the reason

I probably don't remember those because we did three West Coast events that year is the flights

were silly. I remember because Seth and I did some podcasts where I would get back. I think I got

back at like, what was it? Six in the morning here. Right. And then I drove straight to work.

Worked a day and then like had a couple hours and then did a podcast and I definitely had it all

together and I was very well spoken. And yeah, you couldn't tell it all. Those were fun. So

basically Jaime is going to interview us on our own podcast if we don't watch out.

It's already, it's already happening. A little bit, I guess. Well, I can talk about the state of

my garage because my garage is a wild place right now. I've got the very reliable and I'm not lying

Miata, which is my GLTC car and it needs nothing. It's just hanging out sitting there,

but it is scooted up pretty close to the shelves along the wall because on the other side of the

garage up against the other wall is my very stupid SIM rig that is taking up a whole lot of room.

And I actually just ordered a GPU for it. Things are happening there,

but sandwiched in between. And the reason that these two things are on the extreme end is because

we have our Sunday cup car right up the middle of it with its engine out and another engine

about to go into it. So you got an engine party going on. That's nice. It's a something party.

Daily drivers and Mazda 3 hatchback, which I adore. I love that car so much.

Except you've been trying to replace it for like three years.

Well, that's the thing. It just keeps going and it just doesn't need anything.

And it gets good gas mileage and I just need something bigger is really what it is.

But then parked next to that is Becky's daily driver, which is also a Mazda 2,

same as her Sunday cup car, but it's bright green. Oh, nice. And we were actually putting

the touring bits from her Sunday, her race car on her daily driver. So she now has steering wheel,

radio controls, fog lights, and we're going to be swapping the cruise control over,

which is a surprisingly big deal. But then parked next to that is the big ass van,

which is our tow vehicle. Yeah. So what kind of van is it? Is it a Chevy Dodge?

Express 3500 extended. Yeah, those things are huge. What's wild to me, all the wheelbase.

What's wild to me is that what you get on your commute in your Lexus,

I don't get that much worse towing a trailer. Well, towing actually and towing to Laguna

because we go through a lot of hills. I was shocked. I got it up to 12 miles to the gallon

towing, which I was very, very impressed because just coast down because it's just like it was

really, really hilly getting over there. And like, yeah, I was expecting to be in the high single

digits towing, especially because I use a U-Haul one. So it's that galvanized steel, like 3000

pound thing. Heavy boy. Yeah. My wife drills oil wells and she loves all of you.

Oh, man. Yes, Seth. So what's in your garage? My newish Subaru. So sub one year old Subaru.

That's brand new. Yeah, it is. I've driven. I've driven. I just had a 36,000 mile service done

on it and I bought it in February. So I've done a lot of things with that so far. About 20 motorcycles,

which we could go into, but everybody on my show has heard me talk about tiny motorcycles a lot.

They're tiny motorcycles. They're basically all children's motorcycles that I race on

go-kart tracks and do various things like that with. So they're like 600 cc's and under? No,

they're like 100 cc's and under. I race. And stuff like that. Yeah, my race bike the last

three seasons has been a Honda 70. Oh, 70 cc's. Okay. Yeah. It always makes me laugh.

That people are like little bikes, like a 600. Oh my God. It's,

dude, we were on, I've told this story, but like we were on the one lap a few years back and

we rolled into a army base that we were invited onto and because we knew somebody who was stationed

there and we rolled in there and we're talking to some of the Apache mechanics and some of them

rode bikes and stuff. And Seth is like, yeah, I ride bikes, but they're small ones. He's like,

oh, like a 600 and I started rolling on the floor because he has no idea how small.

It's a different game. And then the last thing really in my garage is the 9-11

that's been on a lift for like seven years. Okay. So I see like a theme there. It's like

extremely low and then extremely high and kind of all over the place. I've had a lot of cars.

I got rid of, I have pared down any track cars right now and I've pared down cars. I think at

one point I had like eight cars, nine cars at home. And so I've done some idiotic things and

now I'm doing normal things, which feels good. Well, I'm sure your neighbors are really sad that

the real estate price is going higher just because of you getting rid of cars.

My neighborhood does not care. In the least, I've had a dead 1968 international cab over with a cab

lifted up on a slab out in front of my house for seven or eight years. Nobody cares. When I bought

my house, it had two dead fiberglass boats laying on the ground in my front yard. So

nobody cares in my neighborhood. It's fine. And how far is the dollar general from your place?

About two miles. I don't want to walk to it, but it's there if I needed to.

And by the way, mine is literally down the hill. So I'm not flexing here.

And this economy, that's stop number one. I don't know what you're talking about.

You could try to embarrass me. It ain't going to work. It's not going to happen.

Do you guys shop at grocery outlet? Like, wow, the deal's there. I mean, you just have to make

sure that the, you read the packaging because the expiration dates come really fast there,

but it's Gordon foods around here. It's like a, it's like a big, it's, it's almost the,

the company that like services, um, restaurants and stuff like that. And so if you get lasagna,

you get like a half sheet of lasagna and it's like 12 bucks. And I forgot about that from

being West Michigan. God, it's been a long time. Gordon foods, buddy. Yeah. So I may, how did,

how did you get into this stupid car obsession? Yeah, we need to know. Was this like your dad

inflicting pain on you when you were a kid or what? No. So like for me, um, it really, like,

I, I was very lucky in that I made friends with, uh, like over here in Southern California, we have

a lot of mountain roads. We call them the canyons and that's really where I would say 80 to 90%

of the track, uh, people start is they start going there and then they eventually meet someone

who's kind of quick and they go like, wow, you're really quick and they'll tell you, like,

come to the track and then you start going to there. So it was really a friend of mine, uh,

John Lindemann, who, uh, showed me essentially how to rev match because I could drive a stick shift

vehicle. I'm working with my dad and during my high school days at a auto detail shop. Um, and

really that's where it kind of grew on me. And I remember one of the most like impactful

memories of being out on the track was like a NASA event where I saw like a TT

like K swap car. I guess it would have been like a TT four or TT, yeah, like a TT four car

chasing down a Corvette that was also like race spec. And it was like any straightaway and it was

that button will, it would, the Corvette would pull away. And as soon as they hit the corners,

you see these EK four door just like start going right at the quarter panel. And it was the first

time I got to see, you know, a car that I've worked on, um, had a, had a, you know, our humble

little auto shop, uh, for auto detail, going up against what was, you know, a super car in my

perspective, a big V eight sports car. And I was like, wow, that's freaking dope. I want to do that.

Yeah. And yeah, little by little, you know, work my way up painfully slow because I was a college

student. It was, it was in college when you got on track or went to the track. Yeah, that was

definitely in college. Um, and then yeah, a little by little, you know, started going more and more

and whenever I could round pennies together, I would build myself up, went through NASA's

HPD, um, uh, program, then joined up with their instructors, uh, did the wheel to wheel licensing

just to kind of like prove to myself that I could do it kind of just to fight my imposter syndrome

to say that I'm, I'm actually like, uh, safe enough, I guess to be on track for wheel to wheel.

Then a little bit of a challenge, uh, that didn't work out. And then, um, yeah, that was, that was

it. Uh, made friends with, uh, Adam Jobay because I like, uh, crappy single camps and we've been

tech buddies for such a long time. And then he somehow convinced all of you guys in the staff

to accept me as part of your crew. So yeah, you guys, you guys were so great. It was amazing.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. So I, I was, I almost feel like the, the canyons are

like the West version of autocross in the Midwest because like the Midwest has,

maybe you'll get a couple of back roads and stuff like that, unless you're like in the mountains

or something, but I mean, Indiana and Michigan, there's not a whole lot to connect. So it's

like parking lots and cones where, you know, out in the West, especially, you know, when I visited

most recently, uh, a year or so ago, all of a sudden, like, you know, Canyon roads make sense

that like, Oh, you, if, if you want to be quick, like you, you kind of have to be paying attention.

Now granted, like I had many vans like crawling up my butt who like knew the roads and knew where

things were going. It's, it was wild. So if you're ever in any of the Angeles forest

areas and you see a forestry ranger in like an F 350, just move out of the way.

And you will be treated to a show that you will not be able to believe because again, these are

people that live there and they're trying to clock out and they'd need to get off for their shift

and they're going to, they know where they don't have to break. And you'll just see this fully loaded

F 350 just take a set through a corner and you're just like, damn, you just hear those all seasons

or knobby tires just howling and you're like, damn, that's wild. He's not paying for those tires,

is he? No, he's trying to get his shift done. He's got 15 minutes to climb out of there.

So what help, help set the scene for me for these, these canyon roads, like

do people actually like, is it just an afternoon or weekend thing that people will go out and do

or do people like actually get together to go drive them as a group or what, what does this

scene look like? So there's definitely like fat once, you know, it was a little bit bigger back

in my day. I haven't been to the canyons as much. I think it blew up really big recently

with like some people now posting on social media and that just I guess the competition going,

like trying to see who's the king of the road or whatever. But like every, every like region has

like their own mountain road where they're like, oh yeah, this is like the run that people do. And

yeah, you get a lot of Sunday morning drive people and that's usually the sport bikes to go up there

like an Angeles Creston would have you. But really it's like the Friday night, Saturday nights,

that's where like more people like go out there and do runs. So they'll actually like wait,

make sure that there's no traffic coming and then they'll just haul ass up and down the mountain

roads. So the big ones are like Glendora Mountain Road, the one that I used to go to was Mount Wilson,

which was a loop. And that's like the tallest point in LA County. So like right after it rains,

you can see all the way to Santa Monica, Long Beach. And if you, if you get it like right

before sunset, you can see the curvature of the earth. It's like beautiful.

That's right. I love how you have to wait till it rains to clear out the, the pollution.

Yeah. Yeah, like we still have smog like that's no joke. Like you see it when you're up there.

You're like, Oh, there's like this film layer right there where it's just like haze.

Did that go away during COVID too?

Because I saw some pictures. It wasn't from LA, but from other big cities and the smog,

if not went away, like it was radically less.

You know, that's a very good question. I wish I went up there to see because that would have

been interesting. I haven't been out there so long because it started to blow up on Instagram a lot

and people started putting times that they would do. And then it's like, Oh boy, then you saw people

wrecking. And then of course that brings law enforcement and it's like, Yeah, I don't want to

deal with that. No, no, that's, you know, a lot of people go to the gap and in, Oh God, what state is

that Seth? Deals gap is in deals gap. Yeah. Kentucky. Where is it? It's over there by

Yeah. In, in Appalachia somewhere. But yeah, that's, that's the one that, you know, has giant

meets like every year from cars of all type, but like a lot of just common traffic too. Like

there's really no waiting for it to clear because it's a well used highway. And like every time

people are like, do not cross the center line. And every time somebody crosses the center line

coming around and there's always accidents. The big difference between the canyons and the stuff

out east is the elevation. That's what we found when we were out in LA and we drove, I mean,

I picked every road that looked good on it when we were visiting my daughter is like,

we need to go up here. So I drove a bunch of the stuff that is being described. I drove a

bunch of those roads at a very conservative pace in a rental Subaru. So like not exciting, but

yeah, it's the elevation that if you come from out east, you're not used to the fact that

you just don't know that there's that that much elevation around LA.

Yeah. And I mean, like, especially if you start doing like runs coming down, like it's heavy on

brakes and you start to feel break fade and you could definitely see that like with people who

aren't sure of themselves or don't have a lot of experience, you could boil brakes and certain

runs. Yeah, happy. So yeah, like in daily drivers, it's it's wild to think that break fade

just on a commute could be a thing. It's a real thing. Yeah, when the locals, they're crazy,

though, like if you bump into a local there, they don't deal with the break fade because they just

don't hit the brakes, they just lift and turn. It's like, why? When we were there, we rented,

I think it was a Mazda CX 50, their SUV, and we had like, you know, three, well, we had four of us

including me. And I somehow got relegated to driver duty, which I didn't mind so much. But

yeah, it was, I was keeping up, focusing hard, but definitely had people on my butt too. Like I

was not a standout in any way. Yeah, it's hard. Even on local roads, I mean, you can only go as far

as fast as you can see, because that's like another, another limiting factor is that if you

can't see the next corner, you don't know, there could be a boulder on the road and it's like,

you got to be able to stop in time. Yeah, tracks, the West Coast tracks with their

elevations start to make a lot more sense when you drive around the area. And all of a sudden,

you know, the, the corkscrew and everything at Laguna and the willows, like you're like, oh,

yeah, this is just the terrain. This is just a normal road that's just has a start and finish

line to it. So Scott, since you are used to, I guess, more of the Midwest, if I'm not

kind of assuming too much, what was your first impression of like Big Willow? Because for me,

and pretty much all of the SoCal base streets is really the big track that everybody likes to go to.

Not so much Big Willow. For whatever reason, there's been a really good campaign of saying

that you need a lot of horsepower for some reason to be on Big Willow, which I think is bull, but

what was your impression of Willow, like Big Willow? A lot more big rocks off the side of

the track than I expected to be honest. Like I didn't expect like grass and like, you know, a lot of

bushy plants and stuff like that. I expected some gravel, but I didn't expect like

if, you know, like a fist size rock was pretty common. Like, yeah, that's, that's like a basic

rock on the side of the track. And like sometimes there'd be a two foot, three foot rock just hanging

out next to it. And like that, that gave me pause. You don't want to go off. No, you really don't want

to go off. Yeah. Dust is like not, not a big problem that you have to deal with. So honestly,

that was one of my biggest like, oh shit, like don't, don't go there. Other than that, it was just

kind of the different, I guess like track layout wise, I'd driven it on Sim a couple times,

but you know, elevation never really translates well. So I think the, the kind of beauty of coming

over that, um, the last hill where you come down before some high speed. Uh, turn six, six, seven.

Yeah, I want to say yes. Like this dude, my kid, my kid, it's every day.

And yeah, it's just, it's pretty. Um, sunsets and sunrises are really pretty out there. Um,

it's just a very different type of environment than I'm typically used to. I mean, where you

either what snow or like lush green for stuff. And this is just like very brown, a little red.

And then you get like some like really, really deep greens. Um, and hills. Yeah. And big ass rocks

like it said. Yeah. And Seth, have you been to any of those tracks? I haven't driven any further

west than Colorado. Like the tracks, tracks I've driven in Colorado, high plains is as far west as

I've driven. So, um, it's one of those things where you have to have an excuse to get out there.

And I, yeah, like I just didn't, I, I, by the time grid life went out there, um, which was my best

excuse, I didn't have a track card to go out there with anymore. So, um, maybe someday, but, uh,

it's also intimidating. Like for East Coast people, going and driving the West Coast tracks is a

little bit intimidating. It's a whole another world because so many of you guys are like,

like the impression is that the people who drive those tracks, drive those tracks a lot

and are very good at them. And so if you go out there and you haven't driven them, you're just

going to get your ass handed to you by people in shitty Hondas who really know what they're doing.

Um, and so like, I'll be honest, y'all are a little intimidating.

Really? Cause I, I've heard, and this is kind of like going back and forth. Obviously,

you know, the level of competition that you're exposed to kind of raises the bar of all of

the competitors there. Right. I think what grid life has done really well is they raised a bar

in terms of the competitiveness from like your club, TRs, GLTC, where that's really become a

rubric of, or like a good standard of saying like, Hey, a GLTC mid pack car, or this is what

GLTC car does at this track. And you're like, Oh, if you're close to that, you're like, you're,

you're fast. Yeah. Okay. Oh, um, where I just don't know if we have that same kind of, um,

I don't know if we have that same backing and in any of our classes out here, um, that would

Yeah, it's such a regional thing. Like I think you guys had are very much of all like the NASA

regions and stuff. You guys sort of live in your own world out West. Absolutely true. Um,

so I think that's, that's different. I think a lot of the East Coast, you know, anything on the

east of the Great Plains, a lot of those guys sort of merge and, you know, do things with each other.

And then California is an island out there. So

beautifully put. Yes. I've said that so many times and that's probably, um, I think one of our biggest

hindrance is that we don't really do a lot of crossover here, um, mainly because we're kind

of spoiled in the sense that we have like, like that's the thing is you've got a bunch of good

tracks and you've got a bunch of distance, like a huge amount of distance to the other tracks. So

why would you, why would you cross the planes to go do something else? It just seems silly. So

yeah. And it's just cost prohibitive to, because it's not like we're just crossing one or two states.

It's like, right. Several states to get up to like Michigan to do like mid Ohio and then like

VIR and road America. Now, now you're just talking about like going literally to the other side of

the country. Right. Now the advantage is when you guys are in California, you're limited to 55

miles an hour with a trailer. Is that still, is it still that way? Cause it used to be that way.

That's a no. Um, so once you, in SoCal, you realize that speed limit says 65,

but if you're doing 65 on the left lane, you will not see very kind, uh, California's they will

like overtake and, and you'll, you'll see people in Prius is like pass you and go like, dude, what

are you doing? Like stop. Yeah. No, I think average pace on the freeways here is like about 75.

And I've seen people towing like U-Haul trailers, going up the grapevine, being like flat out,

going about 80 miles an hour cause they need to make that hill. See all, all my bike friends

in California own trucks because they, so they loaded their track bikes in the back of trucks

because they, like the rule was you had to drive slower with a trailer. Now,

whether they did or not, if they were in a truck, they get always get out to the tracks

faster than if they were towing a trailer. So, um,

The fastest trailer is a rental trailer too. I mean, that's also true. You don't have to change

those bearings. Nope. Run down. The, um, the, the other thing I made that, that struck me is

this is kind of just turning into a, uh, explain, explain California podcast.

We need to know these things. So more people can go to California. We need to demystify it.

Like when people got to the track and when they left,

because this, this is another thing. If you've never been out there, you've never been in like

desert country, but like when the sun comes up and when the sun goes down,

the temperature changes dramatically in a short amount of time. Yes. You don't have soil. You

don't have water that's really like absorbed and like helps to distribute heat. It is cold and it

is windy up until it is not. And then it is hot and windy. And then once the sun goes down,

it gets really cold very, very quickly. And it, it seems like it's, it's almost like

lizards or something. Like the Californians sense that it's coming and before the sunset,

they're gone. Oh yeah. You know, me and Adam had a conversation about this and I, I pushed the,

kind of like a more social like slash political thing because he's like, man,

all of you SoCal people arrive hella late and you're like arriving to the track like at nine,

trying to get teched. And I mean, no lies there, no lies there. But I think for, and this is like

something that kind of impressed me when I've been to like the couple of times that I've been out to

the East Coast is that you guys, first of all, drive way farther. It's like five or six hour tow

is to be expected. That's like insane over here. Like I'll only tow that far for grid life and

that's about it. Is that, is that a cost thing or like I, I don't want to spend my time that way

thing? I think, and this is like my perspective, I think because we here in SoCal while, while our

salaries may be a little bit higher than what maybe you in the Midwest might have cost of living though.

The cost of living kills us and most people just can't take that time off of work. So what you'll

end up seeing is that people will, one, if your work is done at 5pm, you're not going to load up

your car and then drive all the way there and it's peak traffic brutal. So you just wait until

leaving at one o'clock or two o'clock or three o'clock that Saturday. And for you guys, that's

ridiculous. Like you wouldn't do that. At least the people that I've been exposed to in East Coast.

So I feel like that is probably more reflective of the track community, at least at the level that

I am or I've been exposed to in the grassroots level. So I think that has a lot to do with it.

At least that's my bias perspective. Yeah. Also noted like the two days of events that we ran out

there too. Sundays were much quieter. Yeah. At noon, everybody's already trying to figure out how

to get back. But it's also like you pointed out with the weather change. We really have the first

two sessions and then after that, it's a wash. I know that there's been times when I've been doing

like HPD and I'm trying to cook out a fast lap. And if I don't get it within the first session and

then the next two or three sessions, I'm like, oh, I know I was faster because I stood on Riverside

flat. And the other time I was lifting and I look at the stopwatch and it's like, oh, I'm like,

two seconds off. It's like, geez, it's that big of a significant change.

Yeah. And the, it seems like the dust and the wind and just, there's a whole host of factors,

but it was the, I'm trying to remember what the first event that year we did. It was like in April.

But yeah, Saturday, Saturday was a pretty full, pretty good day. And then Sunday, yeah, late

morning, everyone was gone. Got very quiet after that. Yeah. And I think it's also like our track

costs are a lot lower than you guys over in the Midwest and East Coast. Like that's something that

I've kind of consistently talked about in my podcast to kind of like take a jab at other creators

like Khan from the blind apex podcast and Bill from garage heroes and training.

Oh yeah. Awesome people. Awesome people. I still need to make it out to one of their events.

So yeah, but I've done a big willow event for $100. And I really, I paid $100 and I was like,

hey, Carlos, who's like our SoCal, like really, really fast driver. Like, hey, can you come and

test like my Honda challenge H4 car? And it's like, all right, let's see if maybe we can sneak and

swap in the braces. I'm like, dude, it's a hundred bucks. I'm going to pay for you to go.

Like it's 200 bucks for five sessions. Like that is wild. Like let's go. Like I'll pay for you.

Like that 100 bucks for coaching and having somebody drive your car. I'm like, dude, done.

How, Seth, how much is it for you to go do sprint races and stuff?

To do sprint races and tiny motorcycles. I'll spend $90 to do whatever it is, six races, seven

races. If I could go run cars for a hundred bucks for a day, I'm not saying I wouldn't do

tiny motorcycles, but that's one of the reasons I do small motorcycles is because the cost

differential is so significant between motorcycles and cars. And, you know, I have four kids and

getting kids into college and doing all that stuff. It gets really hard to justify spending,

you know, like a NASA weekend for me, certainly when I was driving my Cadillac,

but even when I was driving a time trial car, a NASA weekend, like I had to budget for

1200 bucks for the weekend between going there. A lot of places I had to stay in a hotel at night.

So between gas to go there, gas on track, you know, if I was towing, staying in a hotel

in the weekend, yeah, the ticket and, you know, tire consumable costs,

I had to budget for a NASA weekend was going to cost me between a thousand and 1200 bucks

all in. And so, Kyle, before it went away, one of our more expensive weekends was doing

auto clothes feedway before it got turned down. And that was like 450 for the two days.

Oh my God. Yeah, 450 for two days would be would be inexpensive, I think. It is common

and accepted that I tell people that 250 a day is like 200 is dirt cheap here. Right.

Per day. 250 is kind of what you should expect. Yeah, 200 would just be lapping. Like if you're

going out and doing HPD type lapping with an organization that just divides you into groups

and lets you go out lapping. If there's any sort of competition involved, even when I was doing it,

you're looking at 250 to 300 a day. Do you think that also comes down to like

how long during the year they can be open and like track condition because

the tracks get beat to hell here because of the temperature changes and stuff, but

right. Yeah. And I think that's what the general manager of Thunder Hill talked about

with Adam on one of his podcasts is that you essentially have the entire calendar open,

whereas for you guys, there's like legitimately snow. Like you cannot try it. So like I completely

understand that. Obviously, there are places like on the East Coast where maybe that doesn't happen

as much. But then again, I don't really know like enjoying P and places like that. Maybe I don't know.

I mean, the Texas tracks we run all year on the Texas tracks, but most of those are

far enough. I don't know. They're still expensive. It's just, yeah, it's what the culture will

sustain and everything else with it. So then you've got this stuff down south. You've got NOLA

and Atlanta and all the Florida tracks too. But yeah, that's Florida. So yeah, plus we're,

I think those days are gone. We can see already with the Willow Springs being taken over by the

private equity. I heard about that. Yeah. And pretty much we already see the registration bump.

And sadly, the pattern that I felt like was going to happen was that if one track raises

their prices, everyone else is going to raise their prices because now that's the new floor.

Do something cheaper if one person's going to have it more expensive. So we already see

buttonwells cost going up to about like $300 a day where it needs to be like $250 or something like

that. Yeah, that's a big jump. It is. I think it'll have a negative effect for more of the

grassroots side. Not me, maybe like your SCCA's or NASA's, but like some of the smaller groups

that people get exposed to for the first time and then go out there. So yeah, I think they'll

have a negative effect. And this isn't me like trying to be Debbie Downer or anything, but I'm

really wondering if like, I feel like we live through a solid 15 year period of just like

track heyday and like grassroots and like, holy crap. You mean I can go drive on this track with

my car and go do these things and like all of a sudden like, you know, yeah, you get some

tracks closing or being taken over and just the professionalization of even grassroots

competition. All of a sudden the barrier to entry has gotten kind of wild.

We had good cheap cars then too. 15 years ago, you were looking at inexpensive Miata's cheap

Civics. Like there was a whole host when I started it, like you could be out there in a

$2,500 car with brakes and tires on it and have a really good time.

Doing well, yes.

Doing well, yeah. Like you could compete in time trial with a $2,500 car and do well in it.

And not that you can't now and I think it's a little different when I was out in Southern

California. A lot of those cars exist more, but in the Midwest, those cars are gone.

Like there aren't any cheap functional 20 year old, now they'd be 30 year old Civics and Miata's.

Either those have been turned into race cars or they're nice cars or they're dead.

And so, yeah, there was I think a whole bunch of things came together all at the right time.

There was an excess of those cheap semi-shitty but super fun cars. We had all watched the Fast

and the Furious and so we were all awesome at cars and tracks weren't expensive yet.

And it was so beautiful for that brief period of time.

Yeah. I hope it's not completely coming to an end, but I do see it thinning.

Again, I'm very, very thankful that I live where I live and I'm very close

to some of these tracks and the fact that I don't have to pay toll fees because I mean

over there and you guys it's like the East Coast, they have like toll roads and that's just like

per axle. I think they're morally wrong, but that's a whole other

I could not agree with you more, Comrade. Thank you.

But yeah, you know,

that kind of barrier to entry that's been kind of kept low over here is definitely a reason

why I think we are on an island and we attempt and we as in the SoCal track scene doesn't really go

out outside of that, whereas I feel like especially in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic region, there's

more of like an amalgamation of the cars and drivers going back and forth, trying to fight to see who's

more competitive. So you obviously host the RaceFF podcast, which is Front Engine Front Wheel Drive.

Yeah. Did your love of those cars kind of come from you mentioned your dad's detailing and stuff

like that back in the day? Is that kind of where that started for you? So I was always poor and I

always had like a poor mindset and this is something that I think kind of kindled my

kind of relationship with Adam is that we both are like cheapskates and both are like

trying to do the most with the least. And Front Wheel Drive has always been like stupid

and inexpensive compared to like a proper rear wheel drive or even a mid-engine rear wheel drive

vehicle. And yeah, like for me, working at the auto detail shop, we would take seats out,

carpet out, pressure wash it, clean it, and then reassemble it. And when I would work on

specifically like Toyotas and Hondas, I was just like, man, these are so much easier. And then I'd

do one Ford Explorer and you know, after cutting my hands on those seats that, you know, weren't

deburred, right? And they were just having almost throwing my back out. I'm like, man, I really

hate these cars. So I gravitated to all the salvage title vehicles that like insurances had

given up on. And that was me. That was like all of my cars, like somehow insurance agency said

this is not in fact not fixable. And I was like, hold on, hold on.

And I know a lot of like, you know, especially in the immigrant community,

you know, a lot of body shop people and people that will do it for absurdly cheap to fix things.

And then you got yourself like a decent looking car and you're driving it, but salvage title and

it's beat up and it makes a weird clicking noise. And you know, it's never really driving

straight because the frame's bad. So that's really where I came up on it. And it was really my

exposure to working on like Honda's and seeing like the performance that they were able to do

with kind of the budget that they had there. And that really attracted me to it.

What was what was the worst best car that you ever had?

Oh, my worst best car that I've ever had. And you knew immediately when I said that too.

Oh, this is like not even a joke. It is my current Sunday Cup car. Yeah. I never got in my ass kicked

by a vehicle so hard than this Sunday Cup car. And it has humbled me and reaffirmed my imposter

syndrome. Like crazy. Like, sir, I had like borderline, like almost panic attacks of like

being able to not count because I got like check it. So for all the people who listen,

so back before OBD two, we had a flashing light and you would get a paper clip and you would run

in there and then you'd count the flashes and hope you're not dyslexic enough to actually count them

and then figure out what the issue was. So I had two engine codes code nine and code 10.

And they go in sequence back to each other. So I broke a connector and it was in there and I was

what is going on with that? I had to rebuild the transmission. One of the bearings was bad,

had to do that engine blew up. People say that these series are unkillable. Not necessarily true.

But like it kicked my butt in almost every single level. Like I had the ABS light on.

I was able to figure that one out by accident almost. Very, very impressive. But it's been like

all the little things that I'm just like doing one thing and it just like takes a shit. Like

right now, as of now, I thought I fixed an oil leak, but then it's back on there now. I'm leaking

from the oil drain plug. And I believe the oil pressure switch I used Honda bond at the end to

work as a lock tight and left those bolts off on the side so that they could dry up and cure for

half an hour and then ran them in there. And it worked for like a hot minute. But now I'm seeing

like more drips on there. So I'm wondering if it's one of my cheaper oil filters. So I'll probably

swap out to a Honda OEM oil filter. So it's been that one is kick my butt. I've had idle issues

with it. I've had all these things with it. And you know, it's reminiscent of my first car because

my first car was the 93 Civic sedan DX. Nice. But this one is a 94 Civic EX. So it's got power

windows, power everything. But yeah, it's kicked my butt. There's been so many little things with

it. And you know, it is kick my ass. Not even the race car gave me this much like little issues

with it. And it is the reason why I bought another one because I was like, dude, I did the race car

and that one gave me no problems. I was gonna ask you, do you like this car? Like it's I love it.

I love it. You know, and maybe it's because I'm old now, but there's just like a vibe that maybe

is, you know, my nostalgia kicking in. But when you get into, you know, a 90s shipbox, and especially

one that's like set up well, which I believe mine is, with like sticky tires, and you're just

going on your commute and you can just go through a corner like a freaking bat out of hell and just

pass like four cars that you have no business passing. And it's just like this life. Yeah,

and it's just like, man, you revving it up to like six and a half thousand RPMs, just shifting

through it and just going through the gears. And it's like, you're only doing 70 on the freeway

apparently. And it's just like that kind of feeling takes all the frustrations and all of the like

issues that I'll have at like work or in my personal life or not being able to go to like a

track that kind of melts it away. And it's like very therapeutic, I think.

Totally is. It's gotten his Mazda three, like I can see that in the three just a little bit,

right? A little bit, but the hard part is I've got tools in the back. And so like they

I've broke, I've broken things because like I've

forgotten about that for a hot minute. And then I go to do a quick transition all of a sudden,

I just you're just and then I'm like, shit, I've got to pick all that up once I stop.

I carry a spare dizzy and two main relays because if you drive an old golden era Honda,

yeah, you know, you know, I do. I'm hopefully about to change your life though. So don't

use Honda bond. Go get Permatex black, right stuff.

This will change your life. And the reason I found out about it, I'm not going to remember

who told me about it. But this was years ago when we were driving our race car to the racetrack

to compete at it because we too lived the poor lifestyle. And one of the motor mounts melted

because the exhaust separated and he did up the mount. And so the entire engine sagged and the

oil pan set on the steering rack, which cracked the oil pan. And so, you know, in order to fix it

or get to it, like you really had to take out the engine and everything. And I'm like,

I'm not doing that between events. It's just too much. And so I found this stuff that was

recommended to me right stuff black. And I'll be damned if it didn't seal my oil pan from the outside.

Wow, that's dope. I love it so much. The the instructions are the easiest thing. It's, you

clean both surfaces, apply, install within five minutes, return to service. Like there is no

cure time on it. This is the stuff that you use in order to get back to business. It is amazing.

Awesome. Yeah, I'm definitely going to look, I'll make a note of that. I've got like the

cheese whiz bottle of it in my garage. I adore it so much as much as a man can love RTV. That's

dope. It sounds like such a kind thing after using the special Mercedes sealant when I had to put

that car back together in the direction she, like you had to, I had to source the right.

Do you know his story? You actually may have heard about Seth and you never knew it. Did you,

do you remember ever, this would have been 2010, Seth?

No, later than that. Because the car was a 2007. And so this would have been like 2015 or something

like that. R63 AMG. Are you familiar with that car, the Mercedes big dumb minivan?

The unicorn of my death is what the third title. That was it. I love it. There was a, yeah, I had

a R63 AMG minivan that broke a head bolt and I got a quote from Mercedes for them to fix it for

$53,000 and so I installed a lift in my garage and pulled the motor and redid it in my garage and

that was the, my first brush with the internet being entertained with what I was doing.

And so that sort of blew up and did, did wild things. But yeah, so that's

grassroots motorsport carried his story and everyone was like, look at this baller who,

the budget approach to fixing this was buying a lift. Well, it was on the front page of car and

driver's website one morning. I was on the, me starting the van was on the front page of their,

their website one morning and that things kind of got out of control after that. But, but yeah,

so I got to deal with like Mercedes very detailed procedures and had to, had to hunt down the

sealants and the cleaners and all of these things to, you know, put together, reassemble

two piece magnesium oil pans and do all of the crazy stuff that Mercedes asks you to do. So

that actually was part of what made me really want to drive Honda's again.

They both have like really good engineering, right? Like Mercedes does have some genuinely

properly good engineering. When they work, it's freaking awesome. But when you want to fix it,

it's like, I want to stab somebody. Yeah, but Honda has equally good engineering just in a

different, like it's different, the vibe is different. So yeah, yeah. Well, it's almost

I feel like Honda engineers though, they engineer with mechanics in mind for the most part. Mercedes

for a long time Mercedes doesn't give a shit. They, they will engineer for engineering's sake,

like for the sake of like, if there's a beauty and a creativity and engineering, that is all

that's important and fuck anyone else if they've got to take it apart and fix it. Right. I think I

follow this guy, the humble mechanic, and he was doing a video on a, I think it's a Volkswagen

Turek and one engine mounts has oil that goes through it as part of the engine block. That

sounds right. Yeah, like a hydraulic mount with the oil going through it to help. Yeah,

that's reasonable. I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to hit somebody. Like I look at that and

I just get reminded like, okay, you know, I stripped a valve cover bowl and I have to

retap it and I'm like, oh man, I'm really annoyed at that. And then I watch that and I'm like,

it's the only time that I can see an engine and see somebody working on something and be

genuinely perplexed at what the hell is going on and what that part is.

I would just be angry. I would just be irrationally like, I like on paper. Yes. All right,

so having a fluid filled mount definitely helps with NVH and stuff like that. But like

on the road, what the hell are you doing? It's a wild choice.

Replace that motor mount. You have to replace everything.

The Mercedes had air suspension, which a lot of the Mercedes do, but it was one of the ones that

would essentially hard park itself when you shut the car off. So you turn the car off and

you'd count to three and the car would lower like two and a half inches. This badass. Look

totally cool. Now a manager trying to put that car in a rack and align it. That's awesome.

Because you have to have, and I'm sure there's a Mercedes procedure for it,

but the alignment shops I go to don't know that. So the only way they could align the car was to

have the car running and nobody wants to have a running car on their alignment rack.

No, why not? I mean, it's continually rebuilt by some dude in his garage.

This is before I rebuilt it. But the guy came to me and he's like,

every time I adjust something, the car tries to re-level itself.

And so he was like, I did the best I could, man. This is, he worked out for like an hour and I was

like, thank you. Here's a tip. Like, I don't know what to tell you. It's just completely insane

engineering. So. Okay. So I was warned by James Smith. Oh, everybody.

That was Smith Olin. Every time like going on your guys' podcast feels like a therapy session.

Oh, yeah. I wanted to get into your childhood, but like you skipped over that and made it sound

too easy. You were like, no, I worked with my dad and then I started doing track stuff. And I was like,

nothing bad has ever happened to me. No, I feel like there's, there's more there.

So I want to hear and I'll, and I'll start it off first because I feel like a show and tell

what was the most frustrating time you've ever had in the track. And I can share,

I can share like maybe the one that I've had frustrated or the one that was done to me.

Which one would you guys want to go with? Oh, yeah. All right. All right. All right. So

yeah, because again, if I, if I get on this podcast and I don't

bury your soul, yeah. If I don't match up with, with what Smith's trauma, I feel like I'm doing

a disservice there. We need to get him on next then and we'll, we'll get him to reciprocate.

So I think for me, the most frustrating one in terms of my performance was my recent event with

24 hours of lemons where it was essentially like almost 110 degrees out and we had no cool suit.

I was fueling and then it was my turn to go out in the car and it was at the hottest time

over at Thunder Hill. And I think at that point I was probably my heaviest at like 224 pounds.

I'm like six one. So, and I had like a mini panic attack. Well, I, no, I'll, I'll own it. I had a bit

of a panic attack while I was getting strapped in because I just felt like I couldn't breathe.

And I, I had to tell the people to get out like, I couldn't do it. And that whole week and I tried

and tried to get back into the car. And it was just like, as I'm sitting there, I could just

feel that anxiety and it felt also like when it's that hot, the amount of water that I was drinking

in like just made me feel super bloated. And yeah, like it was, it was pretty bad.

Do you know what you felt was going to go wrong? Was it just a general sense of panic or did you

somewhere in your head, you were like, if I do this, I'm going to go out on track and

something bad is going to happen or what were?

I mean, for me, it was more like the sensation of being strapped in. And mind you, I've been in

a Halo C and I'm used to the helmet. Like that doesn't really hit me, but I, I do have like,

I guess it's a deviated septum and I was struggling like, I felt like I was struggling to breathe,

although you can mouth breathe and not necessarily an issue. And it's never been an issue

really previously. I think I had that happen to me once before when I was in a Honda Challenge

Race and like button willow where I was just like strapped in and like I had a containment

seat that was pushing in my shoulders in and again, being cheap. I had a suit that was really,

really tight on me. So that was more restrictive. And I think a combination of all of those things

have me like just kind of panic to the point where I needed to like take my suit off and start

trying to breathe. But yeah, I think that that was definitely like was the issue is that I felt

like I was struggling to breathe. I knew that as soon as the car would get moving and I'd get like a

rush of air, that I'd be a hundred percent okay. Because I feel like I've been able to do that.

So yeah, that's, that's been like one of my more frustrating things in terms of

performance out of myself. Yeah, that, that reminds me of it's a bit of an anecdote, but

like when, when I'm sleeping at night and if I'm spooning my wife and her hair gets in my face,

like I can't sleep because even though like it's hair, you can breathe through it. Like

if it even thinks about like getting in my nose or my mouth, it just, I hate having my breath

restricted in that way. Like weirdly enough, like face masks are kind of okay.

Yeah, same. But like if something that I deem unpleasant restricts my breathing, I'm not okay

with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's, so have you been able to get back in the car since or a car

since? I did get back into a car and that was thanks to the homie Alex from the northeast.

I went out to NJMP and to be fair, it was still brutally hot that day. So it was 80 degrees

Fahrenheit, but 80% humidity. Yep. So I went out in that car and I did fine. I think it was

a combination of feeling super bloated and then having a suit on me, even though I have like a

really nice suit. Thanks to my fiancee, I have a Stan 21 suit. Nice. So those things are like

pajamas and they breathe really, really well for what they are. But yeah, like the most recent one

was definitely driving that car in NASA's hyperdrive. So I got to scare a couple of instructors and

that was fun. But yeah, outside of that, I guess the other time that I've had, so to answer your

question, that's been the only time that I've been on track since that event. So not in full gear

yet. Are you worried about getting in full gear and getting in a car the next time?

I guess in the back of my mind, I do have a certain fear of it, just because it's kind of like a

conditioned response to a stressor like that. But I don't know. I feel like if I'm not wearing at least

a suit and I'm just like out there normal track day, I'll have no issue. I feel nothing on there.

I don't know why. I think it was mainly because of, you know, I felt super bloated and I remember

feeling my stomach being really big and just sitting in a seat and you're like hunched in and

then you just have stagnant air. And I think we had a thermometer in the car and it was peeking at

about 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Oh yeah, easily. Sounds about right. Yeah. So I think all those

things combined really, really kind of pushed me to a level where I just wasn't comfortable.

And since then, I have started working out, which I've never done before. And I felt like

real change in my body, just in terms of posture and my belly not being as bloated as before.

So because you're part of a lemons team, did you feel like you let the team down?

Absolutely. You let yourself down? Oh, absolutely. Because we were doing a true 25 hours

of Thunderhill. Oh, okay. So that was the one where it keeps going, not like a regular lemons

race where it's just too short. Yeah, I felt horrific for my team because like I'm also the

front wheel drive guy and we were in a Corolla and I've driven that car before and it's decent.

And I was supposed to be like one of the ringers there to drive. And knowing that I let down my

team really, really did hurt my ego and whatnot. So yeah, I think that couple together made it

a really difficult event. Were you able to stay around and help do other stuff? I couldn't leave

because I rode with them. There was no just slinking away and being like, I can't guys and

just leaving. I mean, I tried to like hide in the RV that we had and we had the AC going and with

the AC it got down to about 93 degrees Fahrenheit in the RV. So that just tells you how brutal

that that event was. There's never been an event that I've been at. That was that hot for that long.

Gross. Yeah. Been there done that. It's pretty terrible.

What's your other one?

So, you know, it's been enough time. It's kind of the reason why I left SoCal,

NASA and why I don't race in Honda Challenge anymore. I think the only way I would race as if

I would be out in the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic or Southeast was really

long story super short. My first race event I had an incident where one of the more senior

Honda Challenge racers really wanted to kind of put me in my place, I guess, and they kind of

vandalized my car, put broken glass on top of it, wrapped it with duct tape.

Yeah, it was really weird. I guess what I did that triggered them was they were throwing

beers at me as I was in the car and then I rolled my windows up and told them like, yeah,

don't throw beers in my car. Like, I don't like that. And he's like,

where am I going to put my beers? Some sort of hazing thing that they were doing?

I mean, it was just like this guy. This was the only person that he's ever done it to.

And I'm like, okay, I hope you got the message. And then that spiraled that person, wrapped it out,

wrapped duct tape around my car and then throw glass on top of my car and then

NASA with the previous leadership there. They shared that picture as a promotional thing for

their social media. What? And when I reached out, like as a joke, like they were...

No, I think they looked at it as like, look, we're wacky. And after I reached out to the owner of

the account, told them like, yo, that's my car. That wasn't cool. That wasn't fun. They're like,

okay, yeah, we know you. And at that time, I was an instructor and I had gone many a times

to events just unpaid just because I wanted to help out. And they're just like, okay,

we get it. We'll amend the statement, but we're not going to take it down. And I'm like, oh, okay,

cool. So like, of course, Adam is already like messaging me like, yo, what the hell's going on

with this? And then I'm like, I don't know. They said they're not taking it down. So he got pissed,

started posting on there. And then they got more and more people getting backlash on there. And

yeah, had a lot of regions reach out to their representation. Because at that time, I was

the only person really covering Honda Challenge. And yeah, there were a lot of really pissed off

people. So yeah, that is wild. Yeah, so I won't go back. I just don't want to like do that anymore.

And that's why, you know, I'm like so headstrong in promoting grid life, because you guys do such a

good job. And the vibes are just like really there. Yeah. All right, Seth, what's your

Oh, I mean, my easy, like my failure moment is really, really easy. Because after I put

good friend Brian to freeze his car into a wall in St. Louis, that was not my down moment. That

was a thing that happened. The problem was because we were on one lap of America, we had to go

continue driving. And after that, was the next day Colorado, Scott, did we have to drive all the

way to Colorado the next day? That kind of sounds right. But I feel like there might have been

something that we could do. Because the track that was a failure for me was then when we went

and drove at high planes in Colorado. And I was bad. I was afraid of the car. I was afraid of the

track. And you know, I let my teammate down because I was in I was completely 100% in my own head.

And it was because I had had that incident the day before, you know, put the car into a wall

the day before. It was not my car. I felt bad about it. I was I was afraid and it took me a

long time. It did take it took me the rest of that week. It took me a long time to get better

from that. But but to just go, you know, that failure was purely mine. It was purely psychological

because I had done something dumb the day before. And I still feel bad about that.

I think that's kind of like the the kind of unspoken line that we flirt with, you know,

when you commit to a corner, and I forget who stated it, but that moment from when you're

you're getting to the corner where you think you're going to break to the point where you're

trying to line up where you're going to apex, I feel like the best representation I've ever

heard of that is being blindfolded and jumping onto a like tight rope, tight rope. And it's like,

I feel like that is such a good representation of like, we have all these data points that we've

done in a track car. And we know, more or less, that this grip is going to more or less have

here. And if it sets out this much, I'm comfortable catching it this much. And it's like that

difference if we were to really measure it in terms of like distance and seconds.

I feel like it's so small between making it and not making it.

You know, I'm sure if I got into the corner in St. Louis two miles an hour slower,

I would have made it through. Like I would have still fucked up the corner. Like it would have

been a problem, but I wouldn't have hit the wall. It was it was that sort of thing. Like I almost

almost didn't go off the track. And you know how it is, like once you go off the track,

on the outside, into grass or something like that, you're, it's just gone. So, but like it was

almost okay. And it wasn't. Yeah. And so the thing was, then I was like, where it where is almost

there? I don't know where it is anymore. I knew where it was yesterday, but I don't know where

it is now. It took me a very long time to get back to that. So it is really fun to me to watch

in car video of Formula one of Indy car of, you know, in any of the high level

racing and watch these guys in car during a race or certainly even during qualifying

and they miss apexes all the time. Now it's not as egregious as, you know, maybe like some

intermediate HPDs that, you know, we see from, from time to time, but I've done some spectacular

ones in my day. But there's, but yeah, they're constantly making errors and corrections, but

they're like the bandwidth is just much, much smaller. I mean, the errors that they're making

are typically within a foot rather than like within three or like they're within three inches and,

you know, us mortals are within 12 or something like that.

Yeah. And I don't think you get a good understanding of that at the grassroots level until you

meet someone like Tomo or like my buddy Carlos where they take your car. And then you just see

them like, wow, he just shaved four seconds off of my best laugh time. And he didn't so brutal.

He didn't need to take three or four laps to get warmed up and build up the courage. And it's

going back to that analogy is that they know how much they can catch and they can throw the car

and know that, oh, I can catch it up to here. I can throw it around here. And this is where I

can catch it. And once you get to that level, you can then play on the edge or at that slipping

point of the tires. And you're just way more comfortable because you have not only that

experience, but that resume behind your in the back of your head of like, oh, yeah,

this is just like my CRX when it's snappy right here. And this is way more planted. So yeah.

Yeah. And the sim racing has taught me a very humbling but very valuable lesson

that even if I'm driving a fixed setup car at a track with fixed weather conditions, let's say,

and I'll feel like I just did a ringer of a lap. I'll get on garage 61 compare my lap with

everyone else. And if I'm within three seconds, I'm doing great. And so anytime anybody tells

me that they go out on track and that like that's it, like the car doesn't have anything else in it.

Oh yeah. I'm not rude. But I think what's what's much more accurate is to say that's all I had

with this car at this time, because to go out there and even like you see, take any car,

any class and like they're really pushing it. But then you see the same cars developed maybe a

little bit more with the same drivers and they'll go a second faster. And guess what? There's another

two seconds out there. I can almost guarantee you. Yeah, because they're not on scrap tires. And then

all of a sudden you put your tires under your like bro. Yeah. And it's like you just care again,

like we look at a track with only 10 turns, a tenth of a second per turn. And a tenth of a second

is nothing. That's a second. Yeah. That's yeah, I've always I've always said like, like there's

time out there, but I don't know where it is. Yeah. Like it has to be there. I don't know where to find

it, but it's there. So all right. My two times are

so GLTC is can be a struggle bus because the cars and the drivers are

very good and very finely tuned. And during my time in GLTC, I was instructing,

I was staff, I was maybe coaching another person, something like that. And so my driving never

really got better for like two or three years. I'm pretty convinced. And what started becoming a

parent to me was I, I'm pretty good in the wet and like that's kind of what I'd like to

hang my hat on is I'm a, I'm a good wet driver sort of thing. And I've had some standout performances

that I'm still pretty proud of, but we go to Watkins Glen in 2024 or three might have been 2023.

I think it's four. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. And it was the week before the one lap of America.

And I drove this track in practice before qualifying. And I, I didn't, I'd never had an

emotional reaction to a track like I did to this one because it was so big and so fast.

And you could reach out and touch the wall at several different points.

And I was intimidated big time. And then it started raining. And I knew I was kind of in

trouble when I don't remember if it was qualifying or if it was for race, I think it was for the

race. It started raining and I wasn't excited, which for me, like usually when it starts raining,

like I'll stand out in the rain just to show everybody that like I'm, I'm not like me personally,

I'm not afraid to get wet. We're going to go do this. Yeah, you have your trunks moment staring

at the rain. Let's, let's go. And I was not excited. And that weekend was a struggle. I

actually like results wise, I did okay, but I didn't have ABS on my car at the time a week before

one lap, all this stuff. Like I was leaving. If I was leaving 50 feet, I was close to my

breaking point. Like I was leaving so much space because I'm like, I'm not hitting a wall this

weekend. Like I'm not going to do it. So I'm going to break early. I'm going to be tentative. And

it was so frustrating and fast forward to pit race 2024, which was the season closer last year.

And granted the, it's very fun track, very hilly, good flow, stuff like that. The surface is

very, very unique on paper. It looked like it to me, it looked like it should have been a pretty

good Miata track. Turns out not so much. And I was just on the struggle bus and then it started

to rain and I learned firsthand, especially on that cert surface that the tires that the small

diameter guys could run. It was so high grip in the wet that the 205s that we,

the only wet tires we could run just you had so much grip, you needed wider tires.

And I, I had nothing for anyone in those rain races. And it was so demoralizing. I'm like,

and it was the season closer. And I'm just like, I'm not sure I'm having fun anymore.

That's a rough one. And that was really kind of when we decided that

I needed to divest my coaching from my driving. Like if I work an event,

I need to not drive that event unless it's like super casual, just like go out for a session or

two sort of thing. But like, I'm not going to compete and have off track responsibilities

at the same event because if I do, I drive shitty and I was tired of driving shitty and

feeling shitty about my driving. And then my off track, I was kind of strained for time. I was

a little bit more tired because I was getting beat up on track and like feeling bad about myself.

And like, there's just both things got bad. So, you know, this, this year we changed things up, but

yeah. Okay, there you go. Wow. We're all just depressing as hell right now. Good Lord.

Well, it's basically like, Hey, tell me, tell me about the worst moment in your life. You know,

let's all share worse moments so we can all just like climb into this giant hole together. It'll

be amazing. All right, so let me save it a little bit by there. There is a segment that I do in my

I like this. Yeah, I like this. Um, yep. Trash. If you have so, so I'm going to ask you

since I'm on here guys, this podcast, the last three quick questions. Let's do it. Let me bring

it up. So first one, which is my gold standard. Have you ever had a significant other pop start

your car bonus points if you've made them push? Yeah, Scott. Uh, yes, a significant other. Does

it count if I've made my child push me on a motorcycle, the bike? Oh, I feel like if you're

adding a child might be worse than that's bonus credit. I've definitely had my daughter push me

on a motorcycle. The bomb started a race bike before. So yeah, definitely. Okay. Okay. I feel

that. All right. Next one. Um, have you ever used a non automotive part to help you fix your

automobile? Yeah. Samples are water in the tire because if it's airtight, it's watertight.

Lanyard is a v-band on an RX seven. That was my buddy Jeff Jones. They don't make a lot of torque. So

it was able to keep the cooling fan and I think Jackie from the Northeast used a hockey puck

on her Caprice tow car to kind of fix something on the intake. So Scott, what do you have?

Um, so I'm a carpenter and so like the, the easy button would be like wood screws where wood

screws shouldn't go sort of thing. That's, that's, that's credit worthy. I'm trying to think what it

was, but it, I want to say it might have been a spring isolator, which wouldn't really count,

but I had to use that to keep the oil pan off of the steering rack for the drive home that we had to

do. Okay. Okay. That's fair. I dig it. Yeah. That, that was one I'm trying. All right. Let's go,

let's go to Seth to let you, let you build up on that one. Seth, when I was 17 years old, I was

driving around a 1986 Dodge Aries K and the fuel line started leaking cause it was a rusty car.

It was a Michigan group in Michigan and I fixed and I was, I was up north dinking around with

friends of mine was nowhere near my parents and I fixed that fuel line with half a dollar bill

in three hose clamps and that car stayed with that fix on it for the next year and a half that

I drove it until it died properly. So half a dollar bill and three hose clamps to fix car.

That is perfect. I love that. I love that. All right. Beer can. Beer can. The, and I'm gonna

struggle to remember exactly what it was, but we had a metal to metal connection that was too loose,

but it had to be fairly structural and so we cut a beer can open and wrapped it around tightly to

take up the slack to be able to basically clamp over and hold it because like our TV wasn't going

to do it. Rubber wasn't going to do it. Duck tape wasn't going to do it. Had to be like super rigid.

Yeah. No. All solid. All solid. All right. Can I tell one more? Cause I just remember.

Okay. So Brian DeFries and I went to Raleigh Cross Nationals in his Civic in whatever year it was

in like 2015, 18 something like that. Is this the Civic? This is the Civic. It's GLTC.

It's GLTC Civic. So we had, we sourced a set of wheels from, I don't remember where, we painted

them orange, mounted snow tires on them. We were racing in a class that only allowed, you know,

DOT tires with snow tires. We get there and we go to put them on and the center bore of the wheels,

your center bore of the wheels is too small. And so there's a gap, but you can't make them fit.

And Brian's like, Oh no, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? And I'm like,

okay, we need a wheel spacer. Like if we can space the wheel out like a quarter inch, we'll be fine.

And I'm like, I'm like, I know something we can do, but if we do it, you cannot tell anybody

we're doing it because they will never let us run. Love it. And we went to the local hardware store

and we got a bag of washers. Yeah. And we put two washers on each wheel stud and we put the wheels

on and we didn't take them off all weekend because they 100% would not have let us run that event

if they knew that the wheels were spaced out with hardware store washers. And Brian won a

national championship in the car that weekend. So that was, I don't know if I've really ever

told that story super publicly, but yeah, we did that. And it was a safety steward at the time.

I was a national safety steward at the time. I think the statute of limitations is up on that one.

Okay, one last one. Where do I want to go with this one? You know what? Since this car is going

away and you did mention Seth that you've had a lot of vehicles and based off of this pasta podcast

with Ed Siegel, since he added this addition, I feel like it makes it warranted.

Have you ever owned a Nissan Altima or a G35? Bonus points if the G35 was silver.

I have never owned a Nissan of any sort. Oh man. What about you, Scott?

I've never owned either one, but I was fairly intimately familiar with a four door G35 with an

automatic transmission that was hateful on track. What color? I think it was silver.

Weren't they all silver? I felt like they were, but...

Unless you were really lucky and you got that Florida home retirement gold there.

Yeah, that one. Beautiful. Well, since I'm here, I'll get to be able to...

Oh, that's a good sound effect. I need more fun sound buttons.

All of mine are still the preloaded except for like our intro and outro music, but...

Oh man. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that. I figure, you know, we brought the people down

low. We bring them back up. Finish on a high note. You're talking about like Altimas and G35,

so how is that a high note? Because you did the whole one. We dodged the bullet, man.

Life-affirming. I mean, where can people follow you and find out more about all the weird stuff you

do? So if you want to know more about Frontwheel Drive and, you know, be kind of adjacent to the

NASA site and get to know some of the people that may be at your regions, follow me on the

RaceFF podcast on Instagram. That's usually the way that I get responses and get on interviews

and whatnot. And, you know, I'm just shy. I think of like 15 or 18 people before I can

have the permission from Musk and Metta to be able to go live on my channel. So I would really

appreciate that. I'm close to a thousand. I think that's cut off. Go get them. Yeah. Smash that button.

Absolutely. Well, appreciate your time because I know it's like kind of early

afternoon when we actually got started. So appreciate that. We're at Trackwalking podcast

on most things, but the Discord link is really where we talk about all the nonsense and, you know,

all the daily stuff. So yeah, come join that. Best thing you can do for the podcast is rate us

and review us on any platform and share us with a coworker so they can know what kind of person

you really are. Yeah. But yeah, that's going to do it for us this week. Appreciate it. Hi,

May. For the three of us. I'm Scott. And I'm Seth. And I'm Jaime. Have a good week. We'll talk to you next.

216 - Canyons and Hot-takes (Jaime Garcia)

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