221 - Neverending Quest of Learning New Stuff (Evan McLaren)
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Car
Honda Integra
The Honda Integra is a small car known for being fun to drive and easy to modify. Many people like to upgrade it to make it faster or look cooler.
Concept
Gran Turismo
Gran Turismo is a famous video game where you can drive different cars and race them. It's known for being very realistic and has helped many people learn about cars and racing.
Car
Honda Civics
Car
Subaru Wrx
The Subaru WRX is a sporty car that can handle tough roads and weather conditions really well because it has all-wheel drive. It's popular among people who love fast cars and racing, and many find it exciting to drive.
Concept
WRC
WRC is a big racing series where cars compete on different types of roads, like dirt and gravel. It's known for exciting races and skilled drivers.
Concept
autocross
Autocross is a type of car racing where you drive through a course made of cones. It's more about being careful and precise than going super fast, and it's a great way to improve your driving skills.
Car
Ford Tempo
The Ford Tempo is a small car that was made by Ford in the 1980s and early 1990s. It was inexpensive but not very reliable, which means it often had problems.
Part
wheel hubs
Wheel hubs are the parts that hold the wheels onto a car. They help the wheels turn smoothly while supporting the car's weight.
Term
exhaust manifold
The exhaust manifold is a part of the engine that helps get rid of gases produced when the engine runs. If oil leaks onto it, it can catch fire, which is very dangerous.
Car
Jeep Grand
The Jeep Grand Cherokee is a big, tough SUV that can drive on rough trails and also be comfortable for daily use. It's great for families because it has a lot of space inside and can handle different types of roads.
Term
four wheel drive
Four wheel drive means that all four wheels of the car can move at the same time, which helps the car grip the road better, especially in bad weather or rough terrain.
Term
rear wheel drive
Rear wheel drive means that the back wheels of the car get the power from the engine, which can help with handling and speed, especially in sports cars.
Term
bald tires
Bald tires are tires that have lost their grip because the rubber on them is worn down. This makes it harder for the car to stay on the road, especially when it's wet.
Term
counter steering
Counter steering is when you turn the steering wheel the opposite way of where the car is sliding. This helps you regain control of the car when it starts to skid.
Part
brake rotor
A brake rotor is a round metal part that helps your car stop. When you press the brake pedal, the brake pads squeeze the rotor to slow down the car. If the rotor is broken, the brakes might not work well.
Concept
reliability
Reliability means how well a car works over time without breaking down. A reliable car is one that you can count on to start and run well without needing a lot of repairs.
Term
front-wheel drive
Front-wheel drive means that the front wheels of the car get the power from the engine. This setup is common in many smaller cars and helps with fuel efficiency.
Term
engine swap
An engine swap means taking out the engine that was originally in a car and putting in a different one. People do this to make their cars faster or to fix problems with the old engine.
Car
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
The Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, or EVO, is a fast car that was built for racing and has a strong following among car fans for its speed and handling.
Car
Subaru STI
The Subaru STI is a more powerful version of the WRX, designed for serious driving enthusiasts who want better performance and handling.
Term
HPDE
HPDE means High-Performance Driving Experience. It's an event where you can drive your car fast on a racetrack and learn how to handle it better.
Concept
track capable
When someone says a car is 'track capable', it means the car has been improved to drive well on a racetrack. This usually involves making changes to parts like the brakes and suspension to help it go faster and handle better.
Part
brake pads
Brake pads are parts of the car that help it stop when you press the brake pedal. They wear out over time and need to be changed to keep the car safe.
Part
brake lines
Brake lines are pipes in the car that carry fluid to the brakes. If they get damaged or rusty, the brakes might not work well, which is dangerous.
Car
Hyundai Grandeur
The Hyundai Grandeur is a large car that feels nice and comfortable to drive, similar to more expensive luxury cars but usually costs less. It's good for people who want a lot of space and features without breaking the bank.
Car
Volkswagen Rabbit
The Volkswagen Rabbit is a small car that many people liked for its easy handling and good fuel economy. It was sold in the U.S. during the late 70s and 80s.
Term
turbocharged
Turbocharged means the engine has a special device that helps it produce more power. This makes the car faster without needing a bigger engine.
Concept
track day
A track day is when you get to drive your car on a racetrack. It's a safe place to see how fast your car can go and how well it handles turns, without worrying about traffic or speed limits.
Concept
pace
Pace is how fast you're driving compared to what you should be able to do. If you're 'off pace,' it means you're not going as fast as you could or should be on the track.
Concept
controlled environment
A controlled environment for driving is a safe place like a racetrack where you can drive fast and practice without worrying about other cars or dangers on the road.
Term
G forces
G forces are the forces you feel when a car speeds up, slows down, or turns quickly. They can make you feel heavier or lighter depending on what the car is doing.
Concept
SCCA track nights
SCCA track nights are gatherings where car lovers can drive their vehicles on a racetrack. It's a chance to learn how to drive better and have fun in a safe place.
Concept
Grid Life
Grid Life is a fun event where car fans can watch races, see cool cars, and enjoy music. It's like a festival for people who love cars and racing.
Concept
Mid Ohio
Mid Ohio is a famous racetrack in Ohio where many car races happen. It's a popular place for car enthusiasts to watch or participate in racing events.
Part
CV axle
A CV axle helps your car's wheels move while also letting the car's suspension go up and down. It's important for getting power from the engine to the wheels, especially in cars that drive the front wheels.
LIVE
Hi, I'm Scott. And I'm Seth. And I'm Evan McLaren. And we are track walking. Killer
timing Evan. I think that's the first time we've had a guest like be on it. He's just
the show's gonna be so good. Oh, man, don't hype me up too much shit.
All right, world's worst intro. So tonight we've got Evan McLaren, who goes by a very
inappropriate nickname in the grid life paddock, drives an old Integra that's been
heavily modified by this point. Two time back to back club TR champion. And all around good guy.
I'll say your name again, Evan McLaren. How are you?
I'm doing great. Thanks for the intro. I don't necessarily go by the nickname unless somebody
else wants to refer to me as that. Yeah, it's it's you've I think you've done a good job of trying
to shrug it off a little bit. It's yeah, it's it's more of like just a I guess an inside joke
at this point, but I don't know. It doesn't really it's not very fitting if in my opinion,
but it's funny. Why don't you why don't you give give the story of that the origins and all I'll
fill in any gaps I need to. Okay, so that was mid Ohio last year. And 20 was it 24?
Yes. Yeah, I'm like, what year is it right now? Yeah, 24.
That was when James, you know, the the one and only James Houghton was basically running a full
season campaign in Club TR with us. And he was basically like mopping the floor with everybody
for the first couple of events. And then I think he came out in the first session in like three
laps and like reset the the class record by like, I forget what it was, it was a big margin like
over a second. And yeah, he was just kind of like, you know, just pack it up and leave like,
you know, no, he's going to get faster than that. And then I think it was the the evening
session of that Saturday, I managed to leapfrog him by, I don't know, like a 10th or something
like that. Like, I guess he had, he had gone out run a lap that he thought was, you know,
pretty solid reset, you know, his own lap that he had run previously and then came in.
And then I guess saw that I had gone a little bit faster than him and went back out and ran
like another like to put more fuel in the car because he had the fuel like the fuel load so
light that he couldn't only do like three laps or something like that. So we went back out again
and tried to pound another, I don't know, three or four laps, and he just still couldn't pull it off.
And I wound up beating him in that session by like, maybe a 10th, it wasn't very much 10th or two.
But then he, you know, after that session, he like walks up to the paddock spot and like
the, you know, like his attitude and just how like positive and encouraging he was and everything
like he was just so hyped that, you know, like, I don't know, like he wasn't mad that I beat him.
He was like, just he was like, dude, I'm proud of you. Like that's sick. And then like we watched
the lap and he was kind of like joking about how pushy the car was. And then he's just like,
you did that lap with the car like that pushy, like he's like, you're just, he's like, you're a bad
man. Like kept saying it. And then like, that's just kind of where it stuck. Like he ended up like,
you know, like, walking away from that conversation, he just kept saying like,
you know, I'm a clearance and bad mother effort. I'm a clearance and bad mother effort. So then I
just, so I don't know where, you know, somebody, somebody said it on like social media after
that, it just kind of like has become the joke. And it's just because of how and then like we went
out the next morning and battled it out for two sessions. And I wound up coming ahead by like
another very, very small margin. So it was like kind of one of those like, I don't know, career
highlights for me and, you know, time attack that, you know, it's just like a big moment where,
you know, I went up against like an idol of mine, you know what I mean? Somebody who's like,
you know, highly revered and respected and somebody that I looked up to for years and,
you know, be able to battle against him and then come out on top and then get the,
you know, encouragement and respect from him for that was like pretty awesome moment for me.
So it's just kind of funny that the nickname stuck, but like I said, I don't, I don't necessarily
feel that it, you know, describes me very well. I don't ever feel like I'm, you know, this is like
you know, badass axe murder or something like that, you know what I mean? But it was just
funny to hear that come from him. And then the kind of just like stick around and
still like a year later, people throw that out there. Like it's funny.
So that weekend, without getting on my soapbox about it, that weekend, you know,
James went out there early session, reset the record by a margin.
Yeah. I mean, at that point, a lot of time attackers and a lot of drivers, just in general,
those would have been the best conditions. Maybe, maybe I can close it up a little bit,
but what was, what was your thought process after you saw the time that he did early in that weekend?
Oh, I, I didn't think that there was any chance that like any of us in the class are even going
to come close to it because I guess like the, you know, the previous record, I had never been
close to that the year before, I think the year before that was like a podium sprint weekend.
And I was never, I was never like one of the, the top three in lap times. I don't think I
went up to the podium that weekend because of the podium sprint, but as far as like raw
lap time goes, I was always like, you know, a little bit behind. And then, you know, I didn't,
like the first couple of sessions of that weekend last year, I was still struggling to try and get
up to my pace from the previous year. And so I was just like, man, I'm like having a hard time
just like getting up to my own pace. And I don't know where, you know, where I'm going to find
the rest of that time, you know? So I thought it was just unattainable. And then
it wasn't until one of the later sessions, I think I was chasing Pete around actually and
came away with like my best lap time so far the weekend. And I'd kind of,
you know, leapfrogged my like PB from the year before by a good margin. And then I knew I had
made a pretty big mistake and turn one. So I was like, well, there's a little bit more time there
just in the one, you know, one corner. So if I can like put it all together, I might be able to get
within the same like, you know, one second range is halting, but I wasn't like, there's no way I'm
going to run a lap time that's faster than what he already did. And then like, so when I when I
actually like ran the lap time, you know, the next day, you know, put put it together like well
enough that, you know, it all came together and the del deltoid from what I had ran. So like,
you know, previously to that lap time that I just did was like, you know, way more than I thought
was in the car or like in myself with a driver. I knew the car obviously had a ton of pace in it,
but you know, trying to trying to extract that as a driver myself, you know, I was I was still kind
of, I guess, learning trying to get my legs underneath me. And I didn't I didn't realize
quite, you know, how much pace was still there in it, you know, so that was a
how does it feel to beat someone like James Allen when he's having a good day?
Because it's not like he was he was crappy and the car sucked and yada, I like car was good. He
shows up prepped. The car is good. He's driving well, but you beat him like you beat him.
It's it felt awesome, like not going to lie. I have this like, like, you know,
innate tendency to kind of like, I guess, you know, downplay myself or, you know,
stuff like that. It's like, you know, I'm like, Oh, well, yeah, I beat him. But, you know, maybe
my car is just like that much faster than his or something like that. You know what I mean? Like,
I chalk it up to some other kind of, you know, factors and not almost like take the credit
away for myself as a driver. I mean, I do, I'm never going to like admit or claim that like,
I'm on the same level as a driver is like how it means, you know what I mean? So there's got to
be some kind of other like factors at play that, you know, gave me enough of an advantage, whether
it's, you know, like, whether my car straight line pace or, you know, something that like gave me
some kind of an upper hand there that I was able to beat him. But still it did, you know, it did
feel amazing. But like I said, I'm always just like, I'm still kind of in disbelief. And I have
a hard time like, I guess giving myself the credit for it, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I want to ask the direct question, but I'm going to save it until we get to know you a
little bit better. So I'll take the Seth roll here. If we kind of turn the, turn the wheel of time
back a bit, where, what was your on ramp to cars and motorsport and all of this nonsense?
Well, I guess it started way back. I want to, I would give credit to like probably video games
and like the early Gran Turismo games. As far as like my interest in like racing and motorsports,
like I grew up with a father who was very like mechanically inclined jack of all trades type
of guy, you know, like real smart taught me like forced me to work on like family cars and stuff
with him a lot as a child. And I like, I actually absolutely hated like wrenching and any sort of
mechanical work. Because like, you know, we didn't, we weren't the type of family to like just go on
buying new cars, like you would just buy like some, you know, two piece of junk, and then we would
just be constantly trying to keep it on the road. But when it came to like maintenance and stuff,
like he would, you know, have you do break jobs and stuff like that, you know, I mean, so
you know, I was exposed to like mechanical things early and, you know, my childhood and I,
like I said, I hated it. And then it wasn't until like later on in life that, you know, like
through video games and movies and magazines and stuff that I got interested in,
like, you know, the performance and aesthetic of cars. And that was probably like,
like late middle school, early high school age, I guess, kind of around the time, like people
started driving and stuff. I also didn't get my driver's license until like a little bit later
than everybody else, because I just didn't have the money to like buy a car and all this stuff. But
I was, you know, I loved, like I said, the early Gran Turismo games and stuff like that. And I
was kind of like, what I learned about, I guess, like, like what cars were cool and like, you
know, performance, like, you know, what cars were good for like racing and performance stuff versus
like, you know, the ones that were just kind of like, you know, basic commuter cars. But then
you see all like the early 2000s, like, you know, like Riser age, where people were like,
you know, souping up civics and stuff like that. And like the older Subaru WRX, I was like, I had
like a real like fascination with like early like 90s, like Subaru's and Evo's and stuff.
So I feel like I kind of dodged the bullet there because I wound up with Hondas and not a Subaru.
But for a while, I was really like, you're really enamored with like the
like the GC chassis Subaru is like, what like do we have, you know what I mean,
like just that body shape. And then I guess like how it, how it performed in like Gran Turismo,
stuff like that. It was like a car that I like driving in that game. So kind of like, you know,
I was really enthusiastic about it. And then all the, I guess it was like speed vision, speed channel,
like watching WRC stuff, like real, like at 2am, like the stuff that they would show on there was
just like crazy to me. And I never watched like a lot of like pro racing or anything like that
growing up. It was just like little bits and pieces that I could catch, you know, on, you know,
cable and stuff like that when I was a kid. So.
Yeah. So it's a whole world that, you know, had speed vision never existed or had these magazines
just not been around. I don't know how many thousands, if not millions of us just wouldn't
have been exposed to these worlds that we wouldn't have known existed.
Yeah, seriously, because like I said, I didn't know anything about it, you know,
but I was just like a kid watching this stuff for, you know, like high school age,
like watching this stuff late night cable. And I was like, oh, this is crazy,
but I didn't have any idea that it would be possible to like get out on a racetrack and do
any of it myself, you know, and it took me a long, you know, obviously a long time to get there from,
you know, obviously I'm well beyond high school age now and I haven't been driving on track all
that long. So it took me a while to kind of find my way to the racetrack and meet friends that
were, you know, like actively tracking their cars and have them kind of hold my hand and say,
here, like, go do this, sign up for this, like track night and get out there and do it. And like,
so there's a lot, you know, obviously a lot of a span in between, you know, just being interested
in cars and then going through the whole, like getting into like Honda specifically and then
learning how to, you know, modify and build them and then kind of just building a car
as like a fun street car and then not really having much of an intention to take it to the track and
then eventually realizing how it wasn't that difficult to get to the track and then finally
making it there. And that was, you know, that was probably like a 10 year span right there.
Yeah. So as, as we're looking in early high school, when you kind of really got the bug,
what kind of time span, what years were we talking about 2000? What?
I graduated in 2002. So, you know, it was very early, like 2000s, like fast nefarious area,
era. So, yeah, that was kind of the peak of, of that, that culture.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd like, you know, I would take like Super Street magazines to
class with me and read through those while I'm supposed to be like, you know, listening to my
physics teachers. So it's just, but
And then, so as you, as you went through high school,
what's your, your first actual track experience? Did you do any autocross before or
how did you find your way to the track? I still have never done an autocross. I like, I really
want to kind of like dip my toes in that one of these days. Now that I feel like I'm actually
comfortable enough in a car and like kind of humble myself and like get lost in cones because I
watched video of, you know, autocross courses and people were like really good. And I just,
I get lost like visually in a sea of cones. So I feel like it's something that like if,
you know, if I could go try and maybe, you know, get somewhat proficient at it, it would help me,
you know, be a better driver on track. But I've never, I was never really like drawn to that.
It was always just like, you know, just, you know, road course. It was the only thing that
really like excited me. I will also real quick, I'll echo your autocross videos.
Make no sense to me. I have a hard time visualizing where they're going, what's happening or
anything in person. If they're properly done, it makes a lot more sense.
Yeah. That's always kind of what I've assumed. And like, I've had plenty of people are just
like, I would just go do one and it'll make sense. And you'll figure it out. Like if you walk the
course a couple of times, like you'll, you'll see it. Like I had a long conversation with Hito
this year and he was just like, he's like, you're just scared. He's like, you're just scared of
sucking. And I'm like, um, yeah, probably, there's probably a little bit to that. But like, um,
well, I mean, and as long as, you know, whoever you're doing it with allows, like take a bike
or take a scooter and then you can go around that course three, four times by the time everyone
else gets one or two times through. Yeah. It's, it's better. It's actually a good way to learn to
walk tracks because there's so much smaller. You can really get a good feel for walking the line.
Yeah. In a way that you don't, it's, it's harder to walk a full size racetrack and really
visualize it at speed. It's easier to visualize an autocross course at speed when you walk it. I
think I've walked, I autocrossed, I don't want to say seriously because I was not good enough to be
autocrossing seriously, but I autocrossed a lot and, um, walked a lot of courses and it helps you
visualize things a lot better. So I encourage you to do it, but, uh, partly that's because I
want to get you back on the show and talk to you about how bad it is the first couple of times you
do it. So yeah, yeah, I, I can definitely, that makes a lot of sense. I can definitely see that.
And like I said, it's definitely something I want to try, but I still have yet to get out there.
What was it? How do you, I think it was 2020. I was the first time I actually made it to a
racetrack. So there's a, like I said, there's a long time between, you know, like high school
age and when I finally made it out there. What was your first car and then how did that transform
into cars that sucked less than that? Oh man. My first car was the, probably the reason why I
wound up in Honda's was because of the complete lack of reliability of the piece of junk that I
got stuck with as my first car. Um, was a, I forget what year it was. Like I'm going to say
early nineties, maybe it was a four tempo and it, yeah, it belonged to a friend who had,
I think, crashed it once or twice. Um, and it was like, I don't know, 400 bucks, you know what I
mean? It's something I could pick up with cash pretty quick. And then I ended up putting more
money into that just to make it like road worthy. And then, um, like I replaced everything on this
car, like struts all around, like, you know, wheel bearings, like brakes, everything.
Well, your dad, um, your experience with your dad and your family prepared you for this.
Yeah, literally, it was just like the cycle repeating itself of buying a junk car and then
being forced to, you know, do everything I like know how to, because, you know, my mechanical
knowledge really wasn't like anywhere near what is now back then, but it was like, I can do brakes,
I can replace, you know, wheel hubs and stuff like that. Um, and luckily at the time, my dad was
working at a, um, like a shop at a golf course doing maintenance and all of their like equipment
and stuff like that. So I had a lift and all this stuff to kind of like help me, which was nice,
but it was still like a lot of work and I spent like a lot of money on parts. And, uh, that car,
it had like variable front caster, like it was just like dynamic caster. So the thing,
yeah, it had been crashed and like there was something bent and loose underneath and I
never quite figured out what was wrong with it, but even when you would tow it up straight,
it would like be all over the road. And, uh, I drove it like that for a year, maybe.
I forget, but yeah, I didn't have it for very long. It ended up like lighting on fire, like the
something in the engine bay was leaking oil and it would leak onto the exhaust manifold and just
catch on fire. So, um, more than once? Yes. Now, like multiple times in one day, actually.
It was trying to tell you that it was ready to die. Yeah. It was, it was after that day that I was
just like, I told my parents was like, yo, I'm done with this car. Like I, I gotta find something
else. And they were, they were kind enough to let me borrow their like Jeep grand Cherokee for
a little while until I like found something else. And then I crashed that. Was it a late 90s grand
Cherokee? Um, I want to say it was like, yeah, either late 90s or early 2000s. Those were shitty
cars. Yeah. It wasn't, it wasn't very good, but it was another vehicle that like they picked up
for cheap. I think it was like a, like a lease buyback or something like that, that my dad had
picked up for cheap and it wasn't, it was decent when it was new, but it had like fairly low miles
on it when he picked it up. But then, um, you know, family put a lot of miles on it. I borrowed it
for a while and then crashed it. And it was like never the same after that. But they give, you
know, they give me a car that, um, for whatever reason, I guess something with, I don't know if
it was something that it didn't run right when it was in four wheel drive. So it was just like
always in rear wheel drive. And my dad would like kept telling me, like, don't put it in
four wheel drive, just leave it in a little drive. It'd be fine. And of course the rear tires were
like practically bald. So, uh, um, I ended up getting the things sideways, like down in the rain,
down, uh, like a downhill corner. It was kind of like a, you know, 40, 35, 40 mile per hour
speed zone. And I was probably going like 60 in the wet with bald rear tires going downhill. So
like, yeah, the rear end tried to, you know, swap ends on me and, um, and the sideways for a while.
Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Um, like as soon as I felt the thing kind of like
shimmy, I definitely lifted off the throttle and then it's the really started to come around. I
fully like counter steered, like complete opposite lock and it was just going like sideways for what
felt like the longest time, but I'm on the brake pedal, like, you know, fully locked and locked in
the brake. So it ended up sliding into a, like a concrete curb at the entrance to this like
neighborhood basically wound up in somebody's front lawn. I don't know how the thing didn't
flip. It just like completely snapped the whole like rear end on the thing and like shattered
the brake rotor. And I was like half up on the grass, half still in the asphalt backwards.
And that was at like midnight or something like that. So I had to call my dad and be like,
Hey, I just crashed your car. He was, he was pretty pissed. Um, but yeah, he came and picked me up.
And then like we luckily, I wasn't too far from like the shop he worked at. So he kind of like,
he yanked like the shards of the shattered brake rotor out of the wheel so that the
rear wheel could rotate. And then we like drove it real slow, like back to
the shop where it worked and just kind of left it there. And then insurance took care of it and
repaired it. They didn't total it out somehow. So, um, but then in that, in that time, I ended up
finding a, uh, like a 2000 Civic Hatchback. So that's why that was the first Honda.
And that was all because some friends had had Hondas and they all had like, you know,
a bunch of miles on them and they, you know, they loved them because of the reliability. And
there was one of, you know, one of my friends did the whole like, you know, fast,
the furious body kit crap on his like a cord back in that time. And I was like, all right, cool.
Like I thought Hondas were kind of lame as far as like performance like vehicles,
like, you know, they weren't like turbocharged or all will drive and like all that stuff from
like a little, you know, slow, low powered front wheel drive cars. But then like I got this thing
and I'm like, this thing feels like driving a go-kart. Like it's so small and light and like
obviously doesn't, it can't get out of its own way. But it, I had it till I don't know 300,000
miles on the thing. I bought it when it had maybe like 80,000 and I put over, over 200,000 miles
on the car myself. And the only thing I've ever had to do was like, you know, brake pads, tires,
spark plugs. And it was reliable. Yeah, it was, it was amazing. So that was, you know,
I had that car for years. And then after that one, I eventually sold it to a friend who then
like flipped it, you know, fixed a few things on it and flipped it and then picked up another Civic.
And then that car died and then picked up an Integra. And that's kind of where I got started
with the Integra, which was not the car that I have now, but it was the one immediately before
the one I have now. It was kind of like the, the first version that I also crashed. Like it was,
you know, I bought it, rebuilt the engine, did like, you know, coil overs, exhaust, all that
stuff on it daily, drove it for a while. And then ended up case swapping it and then took the
native Integra engine out, put it into my other Civic that I had also picked up. So I had a Civic
and an Integra at the time. So I had both of them engine swapped and then I ended up crashing the
Integra on the street. Not long after I case swapped it. You've got a common theme here with
how cars end in your care. Right. Is it, is, is that stuff?
Those are the only two. Those are the only two that have crashed.
Okay. Okay. That's fair.
So when, so I, I totally get the, the history of, you know, the WRX or the STI versus EVO,
whole thing. I mean, the performance of those cars out of the box and at the time was phenomenal
for the money. And Honda always seemed like the little cousin from out of town sort of thing.
Yeah. Right. But yeah, but way more reliable. And so in that time, like,
since you didn't have to fix anything, like to keep it on the road and stuff like that,
did that like free up time and mental space to be able to like try to go faster in these things?
So the funny thing is that that first Honda that I had, like I, I did like almost nothing to that
car to modify it, like performance wise, you know what I mean? I was strictly like a daily
driver beater. And at the time I had like an unhealthy obsession with skateboarding. So
it was kind of like, like that was my like obsession and focus and, you know, my,
you know, kind of like how, you know, driving on track now is for me like skateboarding was back
then. Whereas like my interest in like cars and driving and stuff was took like, you know,
like a second, like a backseat, you know, so I didn't really have the money to even like
throw a ton of money at a car to like build it up. It wasn't until, you know, like a few years
later that I, it wasn't until I got the first Integra that I really started to do things to
that. And it was like, that was kind of like the whole, I guess, like forums and everything that
I had kind of started digging through and seeing what other people had done and kind of, you know,
and like really early like Instagram and stuff like that, that kind of, you know,
inspired me to start building that. And it wasn't even necessarily like to the goal of
like actually getting to the racetrack because I still had no idea that that was like a possibility.
It was more just like, let me just make this car that I think is cool when it's like more fun to
drive on the street and like hoon around on back roads and stuff like that. Okay. How was your,
how was your skateboarding going at the time you were switching cars? I want to know what the
process from one obsession to another obsession, how that went?
It was kind of weird because there was definitely like a time period where they kind of like
blended together and were happening at the same time. A lot of the like the first two civics I
had was just like, like I said, daily driver, but then I would also throw like, you know,
five dudes in and we would go like drive around the city to look for like stuff to skate or take
trips to like, you know, Philly or DC or something like that, you know. And so a lot of it was more
like that was more just, hey, this car is great on gas and I can fit a bunch of people in it and
throw like, you know, five skateboards in the trunk and just go, you know, drive around on these
like skateboard missions, right? And then it was kind of, I don't know when the shift really
started to happen, but I don't know if I just started to get burnout on skateboarding or,
you know, something sparked me more towards like driving, like once I, I guess kind of once I like
got acquainted with other friends, mostly like online and stuff that were into like driving on
track. And there was a couple of guys that I had met through skateboarding, like local guys that
had, you know, been doing like HPD and stuff like that. So they kind of started to explain to me like
how like how to go about like getting on a racetrack. And I was like, man, if I can actually do this,
we're like, well, you know, let's, what do I got to do in my car? And then I spent like a year
like just doing like simple basic maintenance and like probably spending too much time
trying to build the car up to be like track capable instead of just like getting out there and
driving what I had, you know, so I, I spent a lot more time almost like preparing to get to
a racetrack than I should have. And like also like maybe like mentally like trying to learn
like, you know, what it was to really like drive or understand, you know, what, like not just
trying to drive fast, but like what I should be doing out there, you know what I mean? Like how
to how to use the brake pedal and stuff like that. And I had, you know, friends trying to like
explain things to me. And I was trying to just like, you know,
like search and scour for like knowledge, understanding before I felt comfortable like
kind of throwing myself out there and doing it. So I spent way too much time like mentally
preparing myself before actually like finally just kind of jumped both feet in and doing it.
And such a common story too. Yeah. Like how many months or years some people waited or,
you know, I can't, you know, I'm not going to go to the track until my car is ready sort of thing.
So what, what were the things at the time that you thought you needed to do before you got to the
track? And so I had at the time I had like two cars, like I was saying, I had the one Civic
and I had the first Integra and I had kind of built the Integra up to a point where it was like,
it was pretty much ready to go. Like there wasn't anything on that car that would have
held me back and I, but I didn't want to take that car. I felt like it was like it had already
been case-well up. I felt like it was too much. I had a lot of people like tell me that, you know,
the whole concept of like kind of starting with a slower car or starting with something more simple
and then work your way up to it. So I was like, well, I have this other Civic that's slower.
It's a little bit more like simple, but it was like also more of a daily driver and it kind of
year just like daily driving it, but then like fixing issues and the kind of using that as like
my excuse to not get out on the track. They're like, all right, I don't want to take the Integra.
I want to take this other car. But then it's got all this like stuff that needs to be addressed.
And it was mostly just maintenance stuff. It was like, oh, I need, you know, these brake pads,
I need to replace all the hubs. Like I need to make sure the brake lines aren't rotted out. So I
got to like replace all those. And there was just like all this stuff that I kept like coming up with
basically excuses to like not get out there. And then it eventually got to a point where I was like,
okay, I ended up saying, okay, this car needs XYZ and it's this dollar amount. And then the Integra
is sitting here in the garage and it doesn't really need anything. So I ended up just kind of coming
to the resolution of like, I'm just going to take the Integra and go sign up for like a track night.
And that's like, that was the first time I actually made it on track was when I finally just stopped
like, you know, making excuses not to take the car that was fully capable of doing it, you know.
Do you know what you were afraid of? Because you were clearly afraid of something.
Do you know what it was? I don't really know. Like if I can
like pinpoint like one thing, I just know like I didn't have like a truck and trailer at the time.
So I was kind of like, this car has to get to the track, not break, get home,
and then get me to work like the next day, you know what I mean? So I think that was
part of the hesitation. But then also like,
I don't know, is maybe it's kind of like a fear of just like, not being good at it, like kind of like
fantasizing about doing it for so long and then going out and being like, yeah, I really suck at
this. But then also, I had that I didn't have any like, you know, delusions of grandeur, like I was
just going to go out my first day and like just be, you know, like a pro level driver or anything.
It's just, I don't know, just weird. I think it's mostly just like the fear of like breaking or
crashing the car. Did you, did you know of other people through the forums and friends and stuff
like that who have, who did have issues at the time on track? Yeah, I mean,
and so there was a local kid that he tracked like,
I think it was like a, like a turbocharged rabbit, like a VW rabbit, and he always had like
reliability issues and stuff like that. Yeah, he did. But yeah, that's just a given rate.
He ended up getting, he ended up getting like an older rabbit and I'm getting like SCCA,
like road racing, I forget what it's like IT class he was in, but
he was one of the first ones like locally that kind of pushed me into that. And then it was,
I had been like acquainted like friends with like online with like Grant Davidson and Evan
Weider for like several years at this point. And those two were like, you know, a pretty big
motivator that kept pushing me like, you're like, why don't you go out? Like you're obviously like
super interested in this, like you're, you should be capable of like perfectly fine, like just get
out there and do it. You know what I mean? Grant especially, he was just like, we're not going to
be friends anymore if you just don't get out there and do it. And I was like, eventually I was just
like, all right, you know, just finally stopped being lame, you know, and just went for it. And
you know, it was obviously I had the time of my life, like it was a blast. And then after that first
day, I was like, why, like, why have I been like putting this off for so long? Like, what have I
been doing? What was the first track you went to?
NGMP Thunderbolt. That's the one you guys came to a few years ago. That's a big one.
Yeah, Ray is like a big fast track. Obviously, I was like, you know, painfully slow, like, you know,
but you know, it is a, it is a very fast kind of, there's some spots that are kind of high risk
too. But I was, you know, obviously just driving so far under the limit of a car that there was
zero risk involved. Driving at your mental limit, though, for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I thought I was like, you know, hot shit, but you know,
obviously knew that I was like 10 seconds off pace, like what the car should be capable of
doing if we're more even. Yeah. Yeah. If you're within 10 seconds, it's a pretty good first outing.
What, what was it about the experience that just kind of hooked you? Is it the speed sounds? Like,
what was it? It was, I don't know. Like I, I had always been. No concrete curbing to hit?
Yeah, exactly. There are no trees off the side of the road or ditches to put your car into. Like,
yeah, I know. It's like I said, I played video games for so long and then I'd like, you know,
gone out like I'm, you know, we have a lot of like twisty back roads around here, but you can't
really like push the car into any sort of like slip angle or anything or without risking like
killing yourself or somebody else. So it was like that it was such like a, I don't know,
like liberating feeling to be able to actually drive in like, you know, a controlled environment,
push the, you know, the tires to a point where, you know, they start to slip. In my case,
it was mostly like on throttle push on the exit of a corner and I'm like, oh, this is crazy.
But then like, yeah, feeling the speed, feeling like the G forces and the grip of the tires and
it's something like, you know, I just hadn't ever like experienced that those kind of like,
you know, full like sensations that you get, you know, even like hooning around on the street,
it was just like, even at, you know, that slow pace with, you know, like my lack of
ability at the time, it was still like to me so much crazier than anything I had done
up to that point, you know, because like I didn't do autocross. I didn't, you know, I was just
being dumb on the street and there's like no comparison, you know, and it was just, it was
like so eye-opening. So I was like, you know, I was hooked. Like, even just the feeling of like
driving over like apex curbing, I was like, this is sick. This is like a real life video game,
but like, you feel all that like G forces and stuff. And like, this is, this is crazy. Yeah.
Like passing other like, you know, novice DE drivers and like, this is so hyped. I'm like,
I'm passing that guy and I'm like waving like, hoping this guy's having a great time because
I was just hyped as hell. And like, it's like, there was just, it was so cool. And yeah, I've
been hooked ever since, you know. And if we could bottle that sensation, you know, have that be
the energy drink that everybody gets on, it'd be a good product. Yeah. It's like the lack of like,
like pressure and seriousness that, you know, kind of comes like later on with like competition
and all that stuff, you know, it's just like people forget about it. I think that how much
pure sensation. Yeah. So after that first experience, which was in your Integra, right?
Were you like all in from that point? Or did you have to like try to figure out a plan and
like how to keep doing that? Well, so yeah, at first I was like, okay, there's,
there's like literally nothing else I want to spend my money on at this point, you know,
like I, I had, I wasn't really like skateboarding a whole lot at all anymore either. It was kind of
like, like the friends group that I had, like we were all kind of like getting a little bit older,
like my, my knees and my ankles are starting to feel it. So I was just like, it was like,
wasn't as enjoyable for me personally as it had been when I was younger. And then some of my,
you know, good friends with 2020, right? Yeah, 2020. So I was already like,
like mid 30s at that point. So I was like, yeah, I had a good run with that. Like I,
it's been a while since I've even been on a skateboard, like now, but, you know, I still
have the desire to get out there and roll around sometimes. But like I said, like,
I can't, I can't do it to the capacity that I used to. And that was kind of like bumming me out.
And then like I said, some of my friends that like, you know, I had, you know, I've been skating with
for like years, we, you know, we kind of like grew up together. They go kind of like, you know,
fizzle out and like go on our separate ways, like we're all friends, but like none of it's really
like skate as much as we used to. So a couple of us still do, but like to a much less extent.
So I, you know, I was kind of looking maybe subconsciously to like fill that void with
something else. So this was literally like the new like hyper fixation for me, you know? So
yeah. Yeah, it was just like, okay, like,
I think within that first summer, I think it was like May, I want to say it was May of 2020
that I did the first track night. And then in that same summer, I think I did three or four more.
But then it was only just like those SCCA track nights. I didn't make it to like
um, grid life until the next year was 2021. I did like a track night. The next season,
I immediately bought like a truck and trailer. Like this was like early spring 2021 that I went
out and was just like, are you like, I need a tow vehicle because I wanted to go like
everywhere. You know, I was like, I want to, I want to go to mid Ohio. Like that was like the
big goal in my head was like, for whatever reason, like, um, it's probably because of Grant. I think
Grant was like, middle high was like his favorite track and he was just like, this place is awesome.
And it's like, it was at the time, the only grid life event that was kind of like
within reach for me. So I was like, cool, I'll go out to middle high and meet these guys. And I'll
see what that's all about. Cause you know, I'd only seen like gears and gasoline videos and
stuff like that, like to see what grid life was. So I was like, that looks cool. Like I kind of want
to go, you know, see what that's all about. I went, did a DE event with NASA, like my northeast
local NASA region, met some people there and that was pretty cool. Um,
Was the real quick, was the truck and trailer a like a reliability thing in the back of your mind?
Like you wanted to be sure that you had a way home? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I, I,
like I just didn't want to be, you know, like,
well, NGMP is like two hours from my house. So it's not like the end of the world or something
breaks. I can still probably figure out how to get home and like whatever, but still it's just,
you know, kind of took the weight off my shoulders of worrying about like getting to the
track and getting home. And if the car does break, I can just winch it onto the trailer,
throw it in the garage and figure it out later, you know, and not have to be like, all right,
back in my mind the whole time that I'm there that, you know, like what if I like blow a CV
axle or something, you know, it's like, um, but then also like I said, I wanted to go to like
mid Ohio and stuff. And I didn't feel completely comfortable driving like seven hours, eight hours
that, you know, out to mid Ohio to with the car and then tracking it all weekend and then making
it back home. So, um, I knew that, you know, if I was going to like do this with any sort of like
frequency, I was going to run into some kind of like mechanical failure or something like that.
I just wanted to just not even have to stress about it, you know, for the first couple of years,
I didn't really have any like major mechanical failures that would have kept me from like
getting home, but it was still just kind of nice to be able to, you know, trailer the car back and
forth and not stress about it. Yeah, but with Scott living life, he lives like, I'm pretty sure he
has a feeling where it's nice if nothing else to get to the end of a track weekend and not
have to drive your, your track car home, just like get in a loud uncomfortable track car and drive
hours and hours home. It's pick up trucks start to feel awful nice at the end of a weekend.
I was having flashbacks from driving the Miata. Yeah, you're an animal for doing that for
so long. No, just broke. I mean, the, you know, the amount of money you've got to shell out up
front for a truck and trailer, you know, everybody can kind of preach resale value and I get,
but you have to have that money to spend it up front. Yeah.
So why, why grid life? Like what? Yeah, I was curious about that. Was it like all the hype
videos and stuff? And yeah, I mean, that's, I was never like, Oh, this is what I want to be
involved in. This is where I want to spend the majority of my time. I was looking more like
my local NASA region is kind of like what I want to, like what I was expecting to kind of spend
most of my time at. Time trial stuff. I just wanted to get through DE because like, you know,
their ladder program works, you know, like you have to kind of like have all this check rides
and work your way up. And at the point, like when I did the first event with NASA, I had had a,
you know, a handful of like track nights under my belt. So I felt a little more comfortable
just being around on track and like, you know, with flags and awareness and stuff like that.
But obviously it wasn't like fast or anything, but that was the only time I've ever had like a
like an instructor in the right seat, because like they didn't, you know, they didn't know me
from a can of paint. So they were like, Oh, you're, you know, we're just going to put you in DE one
and throw in a structure in your right hand, in a right seat. So we went up for the first session
and like, he's like another, he raised his Honda challenge, like he was pretty cool dude. And,
you know, he gave me some pointers around Thunderbolt that, you know, I still kind of like
having them back in my mind to this day. But after the first session, he was just like, yeah,
you're fine by yourself. Like, we'll throw you in DE two and like you run out, you know, with like
the more like intermediate guys instead of being, you know, like in the novice group. So
that was kind of cool that like, you know, they like sign me off that quickly to just kind of
be on my own. But I even like, I was trying to ask him to like get back in the car and at least
like, I felt like I learned a good bit while he was in the car and like that one session.
So I was like, Oh, do you want to get back in my car and like, you know, for the next couple
sessions I do today? And like, he was like, cool with that. But then it's like the schedule, like
run group wise didn't really work out. So I ended up just kind of like, you know, driving the rest
of that weekend on my own. And then, you know, track nights are always like, just kind of,
you know, I don't want to say like a crapshoot, but you know, everybody's kind of, they're out
there on their own. There's no right seat. There's no, you know, it's really just like there's,
you know, in between session meetings where you don't really learn much besides like the basic
of the basics, unless you do something like seriously wrong, and they have to kind of like,
you know, give you a stern talking to, but it wasn't,
it wasn't until, yeah, like mid way through that season, it was like, like Grant and Evan Weeder
were kind of like, yeah, like come to mid Ohio and just like do DE with grid life and just kind
of see like what it's about. So I was like, because of like all those hype videos and like,
you know, Grant like hyping it up and I really like wanted to meet those dudes like in person,
after like, you know, being friends with them online, I was kind of like, yeah, I'll tell all
the way out there and like have fun for a weekend and just kind of experience something different.
And it was, it was like after going out there and like,
you know, meeting everybody and stuff, I was just like, like instantly kind of just
hooked in that like paddock and let the culture and everything, you know, it's like,
everybody was super friendly and like everybody was just there having like the time of their life
and there wasn't any like, I don't know, like weird like clickiness that I perceived or anything at
that point, that like, like, I don't know if I picked up on any of that when I was like at that
NASA D weekend either, you know what I mean, but like, I mostly like hung out with like the Hannah
Challenge guys and they were all super cool. But then like, I don't really know what it was about
you know, getting into the grid life paddock and like meeting everybody that kind of just like
pulled me back in. It was I think it was mostly when I finally went to a Midwest Fest, I think that
was probably what like, you know, that whole like crazy experience was probably what hooked me into
wanting to like go do more events with them. Yeah, it's pretty unique atmosphere, especially
just post COVID and 21 that would have been a that would have been a time.
Yeah, actually, so yeah, I think my recollection is a little bit backwards. I think it was 2020
when I did my first Midwest Fest, and then it was 2021 when I did Mid-Ohio. So I had that backwards.
That was like the rainy year was 2020, right? When it was like, there wasn't any like concert or
anything. It was just it like rained all weekend. Yes, I think you guys gltc like
raced had they had like a it was like a night race in the wet. Yeah, we did one of those.
Yeah, so that was that was the first like taste of grid life was that and then it was Mid-Ohio
after that when I went and actually drove because I drove out to I drove out the gingerman 20. It
was like the end of 2020. Like I drove the Integra out there, but I didn't drive on track. I just
went out to like spectate and hang out. And then that's when that's when I met like, you know,
most of the people that you know, I'm friends with now and like hung out stuff. I met like Eric
Streeter that weekend. You know, like Grant and Evan Weider and a bunch of other people and like
yeah, it was just like crazy. I was like, this was this is like a full blown like, you know,
like festival quote unquote, like they normally do. And I was like, well, if this is like a toned
down version, like I definitely want to like come back out and experience like the real one. So then
that the end of that season, 2021 was going to go back to Midwest Fest just to spectate again,
because I was like, I'm, you know, can't get a driver's ticket or anything like that to like
do DE or whatever. And then a time attack ticket popped up for sale like last minute,
it was like a week before and I was just like screw it. I'm buying it. It jumped from like
DE intermediate straight into time attack at Midwest Fest.
Another Taylor's hold his time, man. This guardrails were off of everything.
Yeah. So yeah, you know, somehow kind of like slipped my way in there and like Abe and Adam
didn't, you know, shut that down. So I wound up buying a ticket and, you know, I was just like,
I'm just trying to be on my best behavior and not like be a problem, you know. And it was like,
you know, first year club TR. At that point, I already knew like, you know, that's kind of what
I wanted to like get myself into because I like this class is like literally perfect for these
cars. And up until that point, there really wasn't a class where, you know, these, you know,
low displacement, yeah, like naturally aspirated cars, like this didn't fit anywhere, you know,
unless you wanted to go like crazy like howlin or like, you know, build a build a crazy built motor
for street class with like no arrow or something like that. Like there was possibilities, but it
just didn't seem like, you know, once we were like basic K swap, I've already got that done.
And then it was like, all the other stuff was just like, you know, I can do more stuff to optimize
the car, put arrow on it, whatever. But at the point, at that point, I was like, I don't care
if the car is nowhere near optimized for the class. Like I already saw, you know, like what Ben
Thorne and, you know, Grant Davidson and all those dudes were like doing at that, you know, first
year of the class. And I was like, I'm nowhere near capable of, you know, even building a car to
that point, you know, with, you know, kind of what I had at that point. Plus I was like, I'm,
I'm not that level of a driver yet. But I was like, if I can like, at least just stay out of people's
way and go out there and just like drive and have fun and kind of experience the whole like,
you know, Midwest Fest experience from like a driver's perspective, like I was like really hyped
on that. So that's what I did. And I can't remember like any, like major, like, you know,
incidents or problems or anything that I call is like, I feel like I was pretty decent about
like just keeping my head down and like not being stupid. I do remember like one time,
like locking the brakes up going into 11 and then just like going straight into like the pits
instead of like making the corner. But yeah, otherwise, other than that, like,
it was like me and me and Fez like battling it out for like 10th and 11th position in class
at that point. And it was like, we were having a blast because we were, we were both just like
within like 10ths of a second of each other. So that like, that's when I met him. And then like,
we were just kind of, you know, hyping each other up. And it was a lot of fun. And then just kind
of like watching, you know, the guys at the front like battle it out. I was like, man, like,
I, you know, hope to get there one day, you know, it was really inspiring.
Did it feel different competing?
It kind of did. Like it added that like extra, like, I guess, element to it.
I don't know if I'm looking back, like I, you know, definitely wasn't ready for it, like,
as a, you know, driver like skill wise, but it added like more excitement to what I was doing,
like having, you know, having a lap time and then seeing that, you know, one of my friends was like,
you know, within, you know, a couple of 10ths and like, you know, me and Fez trading position
back and forth, like every other session, like it just added a whole another layer of excitement
to just like doing laps. But that's not to say that like, even to this day, I still enjoy just
going out and doing like D laps and not having any sort of like, you know, pressure or competition
or anything like that. But I'm, I'm starting to pull on the strings that you've laid out
for us here. And I'm here in a strand of being interested in learning from your track night
right seat instructor. Certainly you've got a hot boy in you that likes to like build cars and,
you know, like make, you know, do stuff like that. But then, but then at the same point,
there's a little bit of that like adventure, let's go drive out to this track that's not
really close to, to where you are, just to like go hang out and experience it, which so looking
at these three things, learning, like learning to do better, go faster, that kind of stuff,
building a car, making it better, faster, or, you know, just expressing yourself.
And then the third of like, just having these new experiences, new tracks, which,
which one of those would you say started your motivation or started with your motivation
and has that stayed consistent throughout your time on track?
Man, that's, that's a tough one, actually. Because it is pretty accurate to say that
there's all like, kind of big, you know, like motivating factors, but I don't know which one,
like, takes precedent. But yeah, I think at first it was
like, getting in the driving and driving on track, like the, the experience of like learning
something new and kind of like seeing and feeling that progression is like a major driver.
Like getting those big chunks when you first go to a new track, stuff like that.
Yep. Yeah. And even to this day, like just little bits, you know what I mean? Because
I don't know, even this year, like I went to tracks and went like significantly faster than
before, whether that was me getting better or like the tire getting better or the car getting
better, you know, but it's like, it's still, I get that like, you know, that, that crazy dopamine
hit, you know, when I see the green lights on the aim, you know, it's, that's probably like the major,
the major driving force behind doing this is just like, you know, that, that feeling of
accomplishment when you like learn and improve at something. Because that's kind of, you know, what,
what skateboarding always was because it's, you know, that is a never, never an inquest of like
just learning new stuff. And then when you like, you know, you try a trick at like a million times,
you finally landed. It's like, like a huge, you know, high like dopamine hit. But then it's also
like, you know, kind of a double edged sword wearing, you know, just that same thing with
driving where you some days you're on and some days you're off. And then, you know, sometimes it gets
frustrating because you can't do what like you think you should be able to capable of doing, you
know what I mean? And I found a lot of parallels like in driving versus skateboarding in that
like way, like not like the mental aspect, but also like, you know, like kind of like a physical,
you know, like weight transfer and like balance and stuff like that all kind of
is like really applicable. Interesting. But then there's a lot of like mental things about like
you know, like mental focus and visualization and kind of like a
flow state and commitment, all this stuff that really like, you know, parallels between, you
know, learning how to drive or driving like fast on track, manipulating the car on the track.
You know, a lot of it's, there's similarities there. So I think, you know, like growing up
skateboarding and like almost kind of maybe like helped me or kind of like led me in the direction
of like, you know, wanting to or just enjoying driving cars, you know, kind of what the more
I learned about driving, I'm like, okay, this, this is kind of like, you know, in my like realm of
I don't know, like, I don't know how to describe it, but it makes sense that, you know, if I'm drawn
towards something like skateboarding or snowboarding or whatever the stuff I was doing that like cars
would be right at that or driving would be right at that alley, because it's like a very similar
like activity and you kind of get that same, you know, dopamine hit when you like, you know,
trail the brakes just right into a corner and you get that yaw and then like, you're like,
oh yeah, that felt good. It's the same thing as like, you know, doing a kickflip and like just
catching it real nice, you know, like Pete would totally understand this as well, because like
we've had some conversations about how like, yeah, it's like, it's, it's like that skateboarder mindset.
But then yeah, like the whole like driving across country and going to these new tracks was kind
of it's similar to like, but you know, me and my friends going to like, you know, DC and skating
and seeing stuff that like, you know, was like new to us, you know what I mean? It's kind of
along the same lines. It's like stuff I've been doing, you know, half of my life. Yeah.
Then maybe this, this is interesting drawing these parallels from skateboarding and
being someone who's never done skateboarding. I did a little bit of inline skating, but
you were talking about the mental focus and flow of skateboarding helping you
in driving. What can you share? Like what did that experience from skateboarding
help you with as you got more and more into driving?
Like there's a lot of, I think probably the biggest thing would be like the mental
like visualization of things like,
like with skateboarding to really be able to do anything, like any trick on like,
even just like down an obstacle, like let's say like jumping down a stair set or doing,
you know, some kind of trick down a stair set or off like off a ramp or even just on flat ground,
like, you know, we have like little like ledges and rails and stuff like that on flat ground.
You kind of have to be able to like visualize what you're going to do, like in a
like high detail before even just like throwing yourself at it, you know what I mean? Because
if you don't have like the, you know, the detailed mental visualization,
you're probably just going to like eat crap. Like there's, it's not just, it's not going to work.
And even when you think you think you have an idea of how something should happen,
there's, you know, it doesn't always actually like 90% of time doesn't always go how you plan.
So you kind of have this like split second, like reaction to either like abort and bail out of a
trick without like, you know, like breaking your ankle or something like that, or like adjust for,
you know, like a lack of precision or something like that, where it's kind of similar to
like driving into a corner. And you kind of have the visualization, like coming up to the
breaking zone, you're like, okay, like, I know where to break. I know kind of where I want to
start releasing the brakes and like trailing the car and having it, you know, twist on the way into
the corner. But then it's like, sometimes how you visualize it, it doesn't always happen exactly
how you want to. So then you have to like, almost without thought, like adjust, right? Like you
have to be like, a reaction to the not like a conscious thought, like, oh, crap, I'm pushing too
wide. And if you've already thought of that, like, you're probably reacting too late, it's just,
it becomes more of just like a subconscious like action, like, like DJ on the podcast talks about
subconscious executables. It's a lot of stuff like that is like just happening real fast in the back
of your brain, you're not consciously thinking about this thing. It's like the same thing in
skateboarding. It's like you get, you try a trick enough times and you're like, you can feel before
you even, you know, get off the ground sometimes where it's like, okay, I screwed it up. And
either I'm going to adjust and try and make it work and ride it out or I'm going to bail or,
you know, there's a point like if you're doing something down like a pretty big obstacle,
like hopping onto like a handrail down like a stair set or something like that,
there's a point in that trick where it's like past the point of no return where you have to commit
and, you know, either you're going to like land it or you're just going to like, you know, crash.
So it's, you know, I kind of parallel that to like, you know, corner entry where it's like,
all right, you know, you kind of, all right, I'm going to come off the brakes now. And it's like,
you kind of have to feel that amount of like momentum you have, you know, and feel the
way the car twisted on the corner. But then it's like, okay, I feel like now is when I can commit
back to throttle to make the exit. And then sometimes like, you know, you might overshoot it
a little bit, you might not be, if you don't commit at that point, either you're going to be too slow
or, you know, you might go off track on the outside or something like that. You know, there's
always like kind of like that point in your, you know, the, you know, the way into the corner
where you're just like, okay, I just kind of have to trust that like, this is going to work now,
if that makes sense. Yeah, it's a lot of that stuff has talked about as pattern recognition.
And so the more that you do a certain thing, you kind of recognize, and you're building up your
ability to sense these things too, like seeing yaw, feeling G forces, stuff like that. But yeah,
the more that you drive or you do a particular trick or like any trick in general, like,
you get the sense that, oh, when I feel this, and the board's doing this,
I'm about to make a mistake or like something that is about to happen. So if I just do this
little thing, maybe I can get it back. And so it's learning to recognize these patterns
at a smaller and smaller amount of detail. And almost seems like the same that you were
explaining with your mental imagery that you're doing that, you know, you were saying that not
all it doesn't always and sometimes often doesn't go the way that you pictured it. But that I bet
your mental imagery that you would have now is better than your mental imagery was,
you know, three, four, five years ago. Oh, absolutely.
And that's, that's interesting. The, and the amount of granularity, especially, you know,
we talk about cars are such physically large things. And the amount of, you know, controls
that we have over a car is really pretty small. You know, it's our hands on a wheel. It's our
feet on a couple pedals and maybe a shifter, you know, and that's, you know, the amount of
movement our head and our eyes are doing. That's really about it. But I've got a picture,
like with a skateboard, it's where your eyes are looking. It's how your body is postured. It's
which foot has more weight on it and where on that foot is the weight, the amount of grip on
your shoes versus like there's just so many more tiny details that it seems like that would be
almost jumping to, to cars would almost, I don't want to see more simple, but has fewer
physical details about it.
No, that's, you know, that's, uh, that's pretty accurate because yeah, like you said, it's,
there's so many little factors that you have to all get like, you know, almost perfect just to do
a simple little like flat ground flip trick, you know what I mean? Let alone something more like
big or complex or whatever it's skateboarding. So I guess like that, that level of like,
you know, fine motor skills and, um, you know, like mental visualization probably definitely
like helped me a ton, like stepping into a car and like trying to get it to do what I think I
wanted to do. But a lot of times what I think I wanted to do might not be what I should be trying
to get it to do, if that makes sense. And it's the same thing with skateboarding. It's like, oh,
I think this is how a trick should work, but then you try it and then you're like, all right,
I have to adjust and like figure out how this is actually going to work instead of trying to force
it to work the way I want it to, if that makes sense. And there's not a whole, there's no like,
I mean, maybe on the professional level, but there's no like formal coaching or anything
involved in skateboarding. So it's a lot of, you know, individuals trying to figure everything
out on their own or with like, you know, the help of like friends or somebody like, you know, if,
you know, if I see like a friend of mine trying a trick and something sticks out to me from like,
you know, the third person perspective that they're not seeing themselves, you know, I could point
that out. But a lot of it's like, you know, even like people that skate solo a lot just to like
try and learn something to like grind out on trying to get this one trick, like really good.
It's a lot of, you know, just that, um, you know, like solo, like individual learning process of
just trying to figure things out and self coach. Yeah. The amount of grit and determination
that I've got to imagine happens when somebody is just like, for hours trying to get like a
particular trick, like the kind of perseverance that that would build an individual, especially
when you're adding like physical pain to it when it doesn't. Yeah, there's plenty of that. Yeah.
Geez. So somewhere along your grid life journey, you started getting pretty fast and you started
developing the car pretty well. I know the few times that we've done setup checks on your car,
they've been pretty close. What, what have been some major lessons that you've learned
in kind of trying to balance car development with a driver skill?
Oh man.
Big question, I know. It is. Yeah. And it's like, I still feel like I'm so like
I'm a new or just like lacking in understanding to the, you know, the level that I like wish I
was at, especially with like car setup, because like I'll, you know, spend a lot of time
like reading and talking to people and trying to understand like, you know, the basics of the
basic stuff, you know, as far as like car setup goes. And then it's like, okay, well, let me,
let me kind of take what this person says and, you know, apply it to my car and try it and see
how it feels or, you know, if it works or if, you know, the desired effect is there or if I'm
just not as good enough a driver with enough fidelity, it's a kind of like extract, you know,
what I need to out of the car, you know, because sometimes like you can underdrive a car and it
feels good, but then you get it, you know, really on a limit of the tires and then it does something
that you didn't expect because like you were never, you know, you're never at the limit before to
even understand what the car would have done. Right. So it's, it's kind of just been like me
getting the car set up to a point where it's like just safe and predictable, I guess, and like
confidence inspiring towards, I know it's not gonna like, like it's, it's too pushy for someone
like James, right? But for me, knowing that it's not going to like, snap around on me if I don't
get the trail braking perfectly, or, you know, if I'm just a little too like hand-fisted with it,
it's, you know, it's just going to like, probably manifest into a push and then I can kind of wait
for the car to come back to me, you know what I mean? It's a lot easier to manage that way.
So that kind of like, like confidence that I've had has helped me kind of just like,
just build up pace. But now I'm kind of at the point where like,
I've, I've been trying to like loosen the car up this whole past season. And it felt like it was
a little more willing to y'all with like brake release last season than it has this season. So
I'm not sure like what I did with the setup to kind of make it go in the wrong direction.
Because I don't think I did any like massive changes. I think there's a couple of things that
I think I might have, you know, kind of like shot myself in the foot with as far as like
front ride height and like bump stop engagement that might, it might be causing it to kind of
like push on entry more than I would like. But there was kind of like a moment where,
what was it? It was, my camera, if it was, yeah, it was 2021 when I hopped in the car. I had
Tom, Tom Agourman drive the car at middle high that year that I went for DE. And just sitting
right seat with somebody like, you know, of that skill level was like, you know, hugely eye-opening
and just feeling kind of how he was able to, you know, get the car like almost intentionally
out of shape and then just bring it back before the exit curbing. I was like, okay, that's how
much you can like get away with, you know, and he would like figure that out in a lap, you know.
So he was kind of like over driving the car on entry and then like gathering it up. And I'm like,
wow, like, you know, there's a lot, there's a big window there of, you know, like slip angle and
like catchability and like y'all that you can get away with and gathered up a throttle and,
you know, just the amount of like momentum he would carry on entry and stuff like that. Like,
there was, I don't know how sharp he was on like the initial brake application. Like, oh,
somebody just learned, like just picked up on in that like two laps that I rode with him that
probably would have taken me like forever to figure out on my own or like somebody, you know,
like a coach or somebody like explained to me and I just didn't, you know, I didn't have that at the
time to, you know, understand anything. So it was a, it was a big moment where a lot of like the
conceptual understanding from like reading and like talking to other people kind of met that like,
you know, reality and like firsthand, you know, feeling of what the car could do in from my right
seat that made some things, I guess, quick. And I've been trying to like,
I guess, like chase that ever since if that makes sense. It does. Because I'm like, yeah,
like, it's like, I can still like vividly remember, you know, just kind of how you could feel him
like release the brakes and how the car would yell under the corner. And I'm like, man, like,
I can't even get my car to do that, that well now. When like, when I really want it to, you know,
like there's certain times where I'm like, okay, I'm releasing the brakes and I'm like, I have the
weight on the nose of the car and it's still just like once the push and like, I can kind of barely
feel the nose coming down the apex, but the rear is still like super stuck and tight. And I'm like,
all right, like, what do I need to do? Like, what am I doing wrong? Is it me? Like, is it my,
like the timing of the release? Am I like overloading the front tires to cause a push?
Or is there really something with the setup that I need to change? So then I've been kind of like
chasing my tail to like figure out what I'm, you know, what's wrong. And I don't have the,
I guess, like the knowledge really yet to like, like really dissect it and like, you know, figure
out like what direction to go to, to kind of get the setup more dialed in or have somebody point
out like, Hey, you're, you're doing this wrong, you know, with your right foot, like do better.
So yeah, it's like, I guess I've managed to, you know, work myself up to a pace like lap time-wise,
but I still like, I'm not, I'm not anywhere near where I want to be as a driver, obviously.
You say all of this, but you won the, you won the championship the last two years. Like,
you're not bad at this. Well, that, and to be honest, that answers the next question I was
going to ask, which was like, you've won the championship twice, like what, what keeps driving
you? And it's clear, like it's not where you know it can be. And do you want to get there?
Yeah. And like, I don't want to, I don't want to be like the type of person that is like,
blame the car setup for like that, not the car, not doing what I wanted to do. You know what I mean?
I know there's like a probably a large majority of it is based on my own inputs, but
I, I do, I do believe that there's always like a mesh between the two, right? Where it's like the
car setup should like give the driver, I guess, a bigger window to get the inputs right. Like,
I've, you know, I've heard DJ talk about that on this podcast a lot. And I'm like, that makes sense
to where like, you know, if the, if you have a bigger window on break release to get the car
to pivot like you want, but like, I feel like my car is just too tight. So I'm like, I keep
chasing like setup and then it's just not like the car is not responding the way I want to. So
that is kind of like a driving force where I know it's like, okay, I screw that up or like,
okay, I went fast through that corner, but it felt gross because the thing pushed the whole way.
You know, it's like, that's kind of where I'm at now is just like, how can I get the car to do
what I want? And like, if I, if I can get the car to maybe comfortably act the way I want,
then maybe I'll be able to extract even more time out of it. But then you'll get to be a
better driver and then you'll need to change the car again. Like you do know this is a moving
target, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. My, absolutely. My favorite response, like whenever I ask somebody
is like, well, what's, you know, if you could make the car do one thing better, what would it be?
And like their answer is power or, you know, it's just like, no, I don't know. The car is good. I'm
like, well, you need to drive better or faster or both because that can't be true. Like you said,
you get to the car to a point where hopefully it's better than you, then you catch up to it
to the point where like, yeah, the car is good. It's like, that's great, but I want you to find a
problem, like find what's next. Because for a while, two and a half degrees of camber is great.
Right? Yeah. I mean, do you remember when you put two and a half degrees of camber and you're
like, this is so much camber. Nobody can possibly use this. And like, pretty quickly you find out
that's not enough camber. Yeah, back when, like my first season on like RS4s and I'm like, you know,
basically have no camber adjustment in the front and I'm thinking I'm, you know, I got plenty and
then I find out, you know, the next season and I'm like, all right, I need actual camber adjustment
if I'm going to try and run stickier tires and blah, blah, blah. But yeah, I mean, it's like,
you know, like you said, now I'm kind of doing the same thing where it's like the car's always
been better than me. And I've always been very aware that the car has a higher potential that
I can get out of it as a driver. So I keep finding these like big chunks without doing anything like
crazy to the car, like at least the past like two seasons, I haven't really done anything like massive,
you know, it's done little bits of here and there trying to like improve gearing and whatever. But
really since I put like a proper like plate diff in the thing and got the arrow kind of to what
like the class was able to, I was like, all right, now it's like, it's up to me as a driver to get,
you know, most of that, you know, most of the pace out of the car. And
somewhere along the line, I think I forget what, which winner it was, was when I finally picked up a
like a sim rig and like had a PC that was capable of running iRacing and et cetera. So it was,
that was a big help to kind of like make some things click for me.
Just spending hours just like, you know, doing laps and trying to, you know, understand
like where to find time on a racetrack or how to kind of like consciously think through a lap,
you know, like, I'll give up someone entry to get someone exit here or whatever, you know,
it's like stuff like that. But I think was like concepts that I didn't really fully understand
before. And it's still probably, you know, not as well as I could now, but you know, it's kind of a
big, big learning curve for me is under, like understanding how to kind of prioritize exits
on some corners and not just bomb entries everywhere, or think I'm bombing entries and I'm
really like still slow and entry and slow and exit. But yeah, I don't know, it's just,
yeah, there's still like so much for me to learn. And
that's why like, I don't know, like people act like I'm fast because I want a championship
in a class. And I'm like, like, I really am not that, I'm not that good at this.
The car, the car is decent enough to where I can get like,
enough potential out of the car, I guess, to be, you know, barely faster sometimes,
not all the time than like the other guys in my class, you know, that's really it. It's like,
yeah. Mario came correct this year. First half of the year was wild for him.
He was like, yeah, he was at most events, he was like in raw pace. He was faster than me.
Like right off the bat, first session at CMP, first event this year, he was like reset the record,
went considerably faster than I did the previous season, went faster than Houghton did the previous
season. And then I spent all weekend like trying to chase him, like I couldn't get within a half
a second of him. So, and that, you know, most of the events after that, besides like, like
mid Ohio and pit race, most of the events that like him and I were both at, like he was always just
like, you know, at least a few times faster than me. So it's, you know, it's just like,
obviously the competition format played in my favor, you know, points wise and everything this
season, but it's not like, it's not like I was always the fastest, you know, car driver combo
in the class, you know, like Lime Rock, like freaking Pete handed it to me at Lime Rock this
year. And I was like, I don't know what I have for this, you know, Pete handed it to some track mod
cars at Lime Rock. It was, he still came back on that and we watched the lap and I mean, it was
a good lap. There was still margin there for sure, but like we watched and I just like
did not think that was possible. And yeah, and of course, like you always, you've been on iRacing
long enough at this point that you should know that like whenever you put a lap together and
you're like, boy, I feel like that's close. You go compare that data with some public data and
you're like, cool, there's three more seconds. Yep. Exactly. So what? So next year you're
doing club TR again, right? Yeah, I was kind of up in the air about like what I wanted to do next
year. I was planning on taking not like a complete year off, but like doing maybe two events and
just trying to like basically save money and figure out. You're going to be able to do that?
That's the problem. Like it's like my plan has already kind of gone out the window. Like
it was a good plan for like a few months, right? And then, you know, the new schedule came out.
I kind of got like excited about going to some events and then I started to kind of make a
plan of like, all right, what, you know, what events do I want to do? And then I saw the
client was coming back. So I was like, all right, I definitely got to do that one. And then,
you know, then some like, you know, sponsorship opportunities, I guess the like support that
I wasn't expecting to get this year, like is, you know, kind of on the table that, you know,
I figure well, if the offers are there that I'm on as well, like go run another full season again
and take advantage of, you know, the opportunity while it's there. So I'm probably going to end
up doing another four minutes next season when I was originally planning on only doing like two.
So yeah, here we are. Yeah. And Mario, yeah, Mario sounds like he's coming hard again. He's
not done with it. Pete, Pete's still coming after everything. So it's going to be another
exciting year, I think. Yeah, no doubt. And it's going to be, it's going to be interesting because
this year we're like, how few events there are overall, you know, and it's, you know, I know
talking to Pete, he's planning on doing all of them, right? And then originally Mario was kind
of in the same boat as me, where he's just like, yeah, like, I don't know what I'm going to do
next year. This like, you know, this year was, he was planning on being his last year, but now
he's like geared up to go for another one. He was talking about only doing four out of the six
next season. So like, you know, how the points are going to stack up between who does which events
and, you know, there's not going to be that many drop rounds this year. So it's like,
it's really going to be interesting. And Stan has been getting quicker. And Mike has been getting
quicker. I mean, there's, there's a good six cars that I think could land in the top three
in any given weekend. Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing. It's like,
you know, even a, even a pit race this last event, you know, we were all kind of like,
all right, we had the idea in like our head, like who is going to kind of be in the top five,
you know what I mean? But then it's like every event, somebody, you know, everybody's leveling
up like every single event. So it's everybody's trying really hard. So next season, it's like,
who knows like how that, you know, top five, top three is going to really like flesh out with,
you know, especially just given the less amount of events, you know, that they're doing next
year. So it'll be interesting. I definitely like if I'm not, you know, if I do four, that'll
probably be the max. I'm still kind of up in the air about, you know, whether I'm going to do three,
I haven't, you know, a set plan to do like three events at the least. But that fourth one, I might,
I'll see if I go back to Midwest Fest again, because I skipped it this year. But
if I get to take it from Midwest Fest, that'll be my fourth event. And then I'll probably do
Rhode Atlanta, Lime Rock and the Glen. And then just kind of see how it shakes out. And, you know,
no, I don't have any, you know, aspirations for like going for another championship. I just kind
of like this year, I just kind of want to go out and have like just no pressure and work on, you
know, work on myself as a driver, work on like getting the car to do what I want it to do and
really just like enjoy the events for what they are and keep the pressure light.
Well, I'll look forward to Midway through this season, asking how that whole having a relaxed
and fun season is going for you. Because genuinely, I hope it does. But we all know the
famous line about getting hit in the face and how that changes plans.
Yeah, that's kind of, well, I mean, this season, I kind of had the same,
same objective this season, which is kind of like, okay, I won, I won a championship and now I kind
of didn't feel like as much pressure to go out and win again. And I didn't think it was even going
to be possible after the first, I don't know, five events this season. So it's just kind of,
it's a surprise that the way like the math and the points worked out going into that last event,
like how it was kind of on the table for like any of us in the top three. So it wasn't, you know, the
there was, I wasn't really like putting a whole lot of pressure on myself at all this season. I
knew that like, I didn't want to, I didn't want to be slow, like I didn't want to suck, you know,
but I wasn't expecting to like, you know, be the fastest one or, you know, like win any of the
events, you know, so it was cool that like, you know, I got a couple wins under my belt and
somehow that was enough to come away with a championship, but, you know, like I didn't,
I didn't really, I wasn't gunning for it this year and like, I won't be next year either. So,
you know, it's just kind of like however the, however the chips fall is what it is, you know,
yeah, it's better for me. Like mentally, I don't, I don't like to put a ton of pressure on myself.
It kind of just ruins the, the enjoyment, I guess, blows a little bit. Yeah. You should,
you should post some of your in-car video on the discord for, for us to watch. And maybe we can,
maybe we can spot something in either in your pedals and wheel or maybe
some suggestions or questions on setup and stuff like that might be worth it.
Yeah, I can definitely do that. I have like most of my, you know, faster laps and like some other
ones up on YouTube and stuff that I can post links, but I really kind of want to get a pedal
cam set up and like maybe like break pressure trace and stuff like that would be nice to
kind of like dissect that a little bit. But it's just, you know, more money to spend and
more hardware to put on the car to, you know, it never ends. Nope. It doesn't, if you let it.
Well, who do you, who do you need to say hi to and say thanks to?
I guess security instruments, they've been helping me out since, you know,
well the past few years, like they've, you know, been helping me get to events and,
you know, putting parts and stuff from a car fortune auto with for the suspension I have on
there. It's, it's been pretty instrumental in helping the car, you know, just be faster.
Home developments, hawk brakes.
Who else am I missing? I'm probably missing like people and they're going to get mad at me.
Yaw speed. Yaw speed. Yeah. Yaw speed. Fire laps through a fire link in the car this year.
So that was pretty cool. Unit two helped me out with keep my oil pressure up with a nice pan.
Yeah, it's probably about it. Then my girlfriend Alicia for putting up with all this crap and
coming out with me to every single event and, you know, being is incredibly supportive, you know,
more so than I could even ask for. So I owe her probably like the most thanks and gratitude for,
you know, taking care of me and keeping me fed and, you know,
it's a big deal being as supportive as she knows how to. So it's been pretty awesome.
And where can people follow you and learn more about all the shenanigans that you're up to?
Mostly on Instagram. There's at Big Mac V tech. That was kind of a joke that Eddie Segal came up
with that one. And I just kind of ran with it. And then I think YouTube is the same.
That could be wrong. They have a YouTube channel with me, like I said, basically just like a bunch
of laps and then Evan McLaren on Facebook. And that's about it.
Nice. Well, we'll have those links in the show notes for everyone as well. But Evan, thanks for
joining us. It's been a long time coming talking to you and getting to know a little bit more about
your background and all the nonsense that you were up to towards the beginning there.
Yeah, for sure. It's been definitely been a pleasure. Sorry to anyone who's still listening
to this and like made it this far into it. But yeah, thanks for having me on.
No, if they've made it this far in terms of episodes, they absolutely know what they're
getting into. So that's fair. Your competitors are mining this for information right now.
Well, we are at Trackwalking podcast on the socials and the discord is where we're hanging
out these days. Links are all down the show notes. Like review, thumbs up kind of all that
stuff is always a big help. So appreciate the listen and Evan, like I said before, appreciate
your time. But that'll do it for us this week for the three of us. I'm Scott. And I'm Seth.
And I'm Evan. Have a good week and we'll talk to you next.
About this episode
Evan McLaren joins the Track Walking podcast to share his journey from a casual car enthusiast to a two-time Club TR champion. He discusses his early experiences with cars, including the challenges of learning to drive on track and the influence of skateboarding on his driving skills. The conversation dives into the importance of car setup, the mental aspects of driving, and the camaraderie found in the racing community. Evan reflects on his competition experiences, the thrill of pushing limits, and the ongoing quest for improvement as a driver.
Original notes
Evan's car caught fire - several times in one day... Seth knows a hot boi when he sees it... Scott introduces the car/learning/adventure triangle...
Evan McLaren joins us to talk about fixing crappy cars as a kid, putting off going to the track, still feeling like a mediocre driver, and the connections between skate boarding and driving.
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