Raw Charging is a company that installs and runs public EV chargers. The hosts talk with them about how they set up charging in places like workplaces or destinations, and also about faster charging.
A ChargePoint operator is the company responsible for the chargers themselves—where they’re installed and how they work. They’re different from the app you might use to find and pay for charging.
ChargeY is one of the charging companies the host has mentioned in a list of different EV charger networks. It’s not the main focus of this segment, but it shows the range of operators discussed on the show.
Destination charging means charging while you’re parked for a while, like at a hotel or shopping center. It’s usually slower than highway fast charging, but it works well for daily life.
Dwell time just means “how long the car is parked and charging.” If people are only there briefly, they need faster charging. If they’re there longer, slower charging can work fine.
Seasonality means demand changes with the seasons—like more EV charging in summer holidays than in winter. Charging companies plan around those ups and downs.
Companies like ride-hailing services keep cars on the road a lot, so they may charge more frequently. That can make certain chargers busier than typical personal-use locations.
This is about planning EV charging for a place based on how people actually use it. If people stay for a long time, you can use slower charging; if they’re only there briefly, you need faster chargers.
The Dodge Charger is a car that’s built for performance and fast driving. If it’s being discussed in an EV charging context, it’s about how quickly you can recharge it depending on the charger type you use. Some chargers refill the battery faster than others.
DC rapid speed is fast charging that works better for shorter stops. You can usually add a meaningful amount of charge in less time than with AC charging.
An ultra-fast charger is a public EV charger that can charge your car much quicker than normal. How fast it charges you depends on both the charger and your specific EV.
They’re saying the charger locations are chosen based on how people will use them. For example, some stops are meant for a quick charge during a trip, while others work better for longer stays.
AC units are chargers that use alternating current. They usually charge more slowly than the big fast chargers you see at highway stops.
Company
alpatronics
Alpatronics is mentioned as the charger hardware provider for the high-power units at the site. Charger manufacturers matter because they influence reliability, power delivery behavior, and maintenance requirements across a network.
“350 kilowatt” is how strong the charger is—how much power it can deliver. Even with a powerful charger, your car may slow down charging as the battery gets fuller.
A charging hub is a planned EV charging stop with enough chargers to handle lots of cars. The idea is to place it where it’s useful for trips, not just anywhere with space.
Aberdeen is referenced as an investment firm that collaborated with the charging operator to develop a flagship charging hub. In EV charging networks, landlord/investment partners can be crucial because they control land and can enable sites that would otherwise be unusable.
Field Dynamics is a company that sells location data and analysis tools. The hosts mention it because it can help decide where EV chargers should be placed by looking at things like traffic and parking.
Off-street parking means parking in a driveway, lot, or garage area instead of on the street. It’s important for EV charging because it usually makes it easier to install and use chargers.
Traffic flows are basically how much traffic goes through a place and when. For EV chargers, that helps estimate whether enough drivers will be nearby to make the site worthwhile.
On-street parking is parking right along the road. It matters for EV chargers because it can change what’s possible to install and how convenient it is for drivers to use.
Charging speed is how fast the charger can add energy to an EV. The hosts say you may want to choose the right speed for a location based on what drivers in that area are likely to need.
Site charger configuration strategy refers to deciding the specific charger setup at a chosen location—such as how many chargers to install and what charging speeds to target. The transcript ties this directly to data analysis and the goal of matching charger capability to local usage patterns.
Site selection strategy is how you pick where to put EV chargers. You look at things like how many EVs might need charging, how busy the area is, and whether people have easy parking.
Population density means how many people live in an area. More people nearby usually means more EV charging demand, so it helps decide where chargers should go.
Destination AC charging means slower charging at places you’re likely to park for a while. Instead of being focused on quick highway stops, it’s about matching charging to your trip and what you’re doing at the destination.
They’re talking about using multiple kinds of information together to decide where chargers should go. Instead of guessing, they combine data signals to predict demand.
Lower utilization means fewer people are using the chargers than planned. If chargers are installed too early, demand may take longer to catch up.
Company
national trust site
They mention national trust sites as examples of places where you might see EV charging. These are often destinations where people park for a bit, which can suit slower “destination” charging.
InstaVault is a charging company mentioned in the episode. They’re described as putting chargers near McDonald’s, which can work well because people already stop there.
Company
Osprey charging
Osprey Charging is another company running EV chargers. The episode suggests they choose locations near places people already go, so charging fits naturally into the trip.
A rapid charger is a faster EV charging station. It’s meant to get you back on the road quickly, instead of charging slowly like you might at home overnight.
“Kilowatts” is a measure of how fast the charger can deliver energy. A 22 kW AC charger is usually faster than a 7 kW AC charger, but both are generally slower than DC fast chargers.
Concept
destination archetype locations
This phrase means the usual places where EV chargers have traditionally been installed. Think locations where you might park for a while, versus places designed for quick charging while you’re traveling.
DC charging is the fast-charging style used at many public stations. It delivers power in a way that lets the car charge quicker than slower AC charging.
A substation is the power equipment that helps deliver enough electricity to the chargers. Fast charging needs a lot of power, so hubs may install their own electrical setup rather than relying on a small connection.
“Super hub” means making charging stations bigger and more capable. Instead of a few chargers in many places, the industry is building major hubs with lots of fast chargers in busy areas.
Lansik is the real estate partner in this story. The hosts are saying they’re working with a property company to put chargers across many retail locations.
Escape York is used as an example of where chargers might go. It’s near a major road, so people can stop briefly, which makes it a good spot for fast charging.
Enroute charging means charging while you’re on the way somewhere. It’s set up for quick stops along busy roads, so you can keep moving instead of parking for hours.
They mention an earlier episode about the strategic road network. That’s basically the big road system where charging needs to be planned for travelers.
“Ultra-rapid” chargers are the fast ones you use for quick top-ups on trips. They can add a lot of energy in a short time compared with slower chargers.
Instead of placing chargers only where cars pass by, this approach puts them near places people already want to stop. That way, charging feels less like a chore and more like part of the trip.
They’re saying some companies grab whatever land they can find, while others plan carefully. The planned method tries to match charger locations with where drivers actually need them.
A grid connection is the electrical link from the local power network to a charging site, which determines how much charging power can be installed and sustained. Even if a site is in a great location, limited grid capacity can delay or cap the number of high-power chargers.
Topic
Southwest being Cornish Bourne and Bred
They’re talking about where to add more fast chargers in the UK Southwest. It’s basically a “what locations should we prioritize next?” conversation.
I can’t tell which exact car “Born” refers to from the snippet you provided. The surrounding text doesn’t include clear vehicle details, so I don’t want to guess. If you paste the full line that mentions the car, I’ll explain what it is in simple terms.
Tesla is referenced here as a major player in EV charging infrastructure, particularly in how quickly and effectively it can deploy high-power sites. The episode frames Tesla’s role as helping “corner” grid capacity in the Southwest, influencing where other operators can build.
GridServe is an EV charging operator known for building high-power charging sites and developing grid-connected infrastructure. In the episode, they’re credited with securing grid capacity and expanding charging availability in the Southwest.
Term
A3A3
This is a reference to a major road near the charging site. They’re basically saying “it’s right off this highway,” so it’s easy to find on a trip.
Charging tariffs are the prices you see when you plug in your EV. The cost can be different depending on whether you’re using slow AC charging or fast DC charging, and sometimes it changes based on how busy the station is.
Term
AC
AC charging is the slower way to charge most EVs. Your car does the main conversion work, so it generally takes longer than fast charging.
This is the unit price for the electricity you use while charging. If you add the same amount of energy to your battery, the cost should be roughly similar.
Time-of-use incentives mean the charging deal can change depending on the time of day. The goal is to spread out charging so the station isn’t jammed all at once.
A loyalty scheme is a rewards program for drivers who keep using the same charging network. It can include perks like discounts or free charging to encourage repeat visits.
A week of free charging is a promotion where drivers get free electricity for a limited time. It’s meant to get people to try the new station and spread the word locally.
Company
Manchester-based EV
They’re talking about a UK charging company based in Manchester. The point is that it’s trying to win customers with cheaper charging prices and a strong business strategy.
Company
Mer
They mention “Mer” as another charging business that got taken over. That kind of change can affect where chargers are and how much it costs to use them.
Time-of-day pricing means the price changes depending on the time you charge. It’s usually cheaper at certain hours, so drivers can save money by charging when electricity is less in demand.
Octopus is a partner in the charging business. The idea is that working together lets them offer better pricing and a smoother charging experience for drivers.
They’re talking about how the charging company sets prices and plans for the future. They need to balance being affordable for drivers with having enough money to keep the network running and growing.
Company
Lancet portfolio
They mention the “Lancet portfolio” as a group of places where they’re putting chargers. Where chargers are installed—like shopping centers—can affect how often people use them.
They use Bluewater Shopping Centre as an example of a place where chargers are going in. Shopping centers can be good charging spots because people park for a while.
Instead of paying one fixed electricity price, the cost can go up and down during the day. If the price drops at certain times, EV drivers can charge then and pay less. The goal is to reward people for charging when electricity is cheaper.
Green King is a company that runs lots of pubs and restaurants. They’re partnering to host EV charging at those venues. That helps people charge while they’re out, especially if they can’t charge at home.
A home charger is a charging plug installed where you live. It lets you charge your EV overnight without hunting for a public station. If you don’t have one, you’ll depend more on charging networks.
A charging network is the system of public EV chargers around an area. It includes how much they cost and how busy they are. A “mature” network means it’s managed well so chargers don’t sit unused for long.
Pricing strategy is how a charging company decides what to charge and when. The point is that changing prices isn’t just about short-term profit—it can affect how busy the stations are and whether customers stick around.
Unintended consequences means a plan can backfire in ways you didn’t expect. Here, changing prices could make customers leave or make it easier for competitors to take them.
Fixed costs are costs the charger operator pays even if nobody uses the stations. If more people charge, those costs get divided across more charging, so the per-kWh price can go down.
Maslow’s hierarchy is a way to think about what people need most. The point here is that when choosing where to charge, drivers often start with basics like “will it work and how fast,” and only then consider nicer extras.
Roaming operators are the companies that make it possible to use EV chargers from different networks. Instead of being locked into one brand, your account/app can often work at more places.
An EMSP is a company that helps you access charging—usually through an app or account. They’re part of the system that lets you charge across different networks.
Roaming is when your charging account works at other companies’ chargers too. “Roaming presence” is basically how many places you can charge without needing a separate account for each network.
Term
vehicle dashboards
This is about what you see inside the car—like screens and menus. The point is that charging should work smoothly through the car’s interface, not just through a phone.
Zap-Map helps you locate EV charging stations and figure out what’s available. The discussion is about whether ChargePoint should rely on Zap-Map features instead of building its own app from scratch.
The hosts are talking about how many different charging apps drivers might need. The idea is that charging should be easy to use repeatedly, without making you download a new app for every network.
Contactless means you can pay and start charging by tapping your card or phone. It’s helpful because you don’t have to install a bunch of different charging apps just to use chargers.
LandSec is mentioned as a partner that helps decide where chargers go and how they’re rolled out. They also use customer data to understand what people want from the charging experience.
This is the phone app for finding and using ChargePoint chargers. In this story, it wouldn’t show the exact price up front, which can make charging feel unpredictable.
They’re talking about rules meant to make charging prices clear before you start. The issue here is the app didn’t give a fixed price up front, which feels like it goes against that transparency goal.
PAS 1899 is a UK guideline/standard meant to make EV chargers easier to use for everyone, including people with accessibility needs. The discussion says it may not be strictly enforced everywhere.
This is about making EV charging easier for everyone, including people with disabilities. It usually means the chargers are placed and the parking spaces are laid out so you can actually get to the charger safely and conveniently.
Here, “software-based” means using an app or digital system to help people find and use chargers. It can make charging easier without changing the hardware as much.
Reservable bays are charging spots you can book in advance. If you need a charger at a certain time—especially if getting there is difficult—booking helps make sure you’re not stuck waiting.
“Oversizing” parking spaces for EV charging sites means making the bays larger than typical. This can accommodate larger commercial vehicles and also tends to improve maneuvering room and accessibility for all drivers.
Amenities are the helpful extras at charging stops, like toilets and places to wait comfortably. They make it easier to spend the time you need to charge without it being miserable.
The speaker references “MFG” while discussing charging-site strategy and comparisons. In this context, it appears to be a charging operator or network, and the comment suggests differences in how widely they deploy features like canopies or accessibility improvements.
They’re talking about another company that sets up charging stations with a roof (a canopy). The point is that it makes charging easier and more comfortable when the weather is bad.
A canopy is basically a roof over the charging station. It helps keep you and the charging cable protected from rain, and it can make plugging in easier—especially if you need more time or have limited mobility.
Company
Royal portfolio
They mention the “Royal portfolio” as the organization behind the charging rollout. The takeaway is that these charging hubs (and their canopies) are being planned as part of a bigger expansion.
They’re pointing out that charging stations aren’t equally easy for everyone. If you use a wheelchair, you may be outside longer while plugging in—so having protection from rain and better station design can make a big difference.
MotoCharge is a company that installs and runs EV charging stations. In this case, they’re using a separate shelter over each charger, which can make the station more comfortable—especially in bad weather.
MSA is a way of describing a big metro area (like a city and its surrounding region). The speaker is saying chargers are being added in specific metro regions.
Arnold Clark is a big car company in the UK. The speaker says they’ve set up a good system for booking charging, which can make the whole experience easier.
Company
Hubjects
Hubject is a company that helps different EV charging networks work together. That can make it easier for your car to start charging without extra steps.
Alpitronic HYC1000 is a fast charger that can deliver a lot of power to an EV. It’s the kind of equipment you’d expect at a major charging hub rather than a slow roadside station.
“Patchwork quilt of generation one legacy” describes an EV charging setup made from older, first-generation equipment that may not be uniform or fully integrated. This matters because mixed hardware generations can complicate maintenance, user experience, and feature rollouts like Plug and Charge.
Grid connectivity just means: can the power company deliver enough electricity to that charging location? If the local area’s electrical system is already busy, you may need upgrades before chargers can be installed.
Concept
Ponta d'Arc site
They’re talking about a specific place (the Ponta d'Arc site) where someone wants to install chargers. The key issue is whether the local power network can support it without major delays.
The local distribution network operator is the power company that runs the local electricity network. If you want to add chargers, you have to work with them to get permission and make sure the grid can handle the extra demand.
A constrained grid means the local power lines and equipment are near their limit. Adding chargers can overload the system, so the project may have to wait for upgrades or use a smarter charging setup.
Buffering the grid means using a battery to take the “spikes” out of charging demand. That helps the local electrical system cope without needing as much extra capacity.
“Off grid” charging means the chargers can work even if there isn’t a normal power grid nearby. The site uses its own power setup (often batteries) to keep charging available.
If the grid is already at its limit, adding EV chargers can be hard because there isn’t enough spare electricity capacity. That’s why people look at batteries or other ways to add charging without overloading the system.
A battery storage system is basically a big rechargeable battery that can help power EV chargers. If the local power supply is limited, the battery can cover the extra demand so you don’t always need to upgrade the grid connection.
Valor Power is a company that supplies battery-based charging setups. The idea is that their systems can help chargers work even when the local power supply is limited.
EVCI Global is described as a company that checks whether EV charging stations are measuring energy correctly. That matters because you want to be billed for the amount of electricity you actually received.
Accuracy checking means confirming that an EV charger measures how much electricity you used correctly. If it’s off by a lot, people could be charged too much or get less energy than they paid for.
MID is a rule that says charging stations have to measure how much electricity you actually got. If the charger is off by more than a small allowed margin (like about 2%), it can cause billing disputes and legal trouble.
DC fast chargers have electronics that convert electricity so the car can use it quickly. Better hardware can mean the charger delivers the right amount of energy and bills you more accurately.
They mention a specific place in Essex where chargers were installed. It’s an example of how charging companies put stations in popular destinations.
Term
arpetronic units
The “arpetronic units” are the type of charging equipment being discussed. The idea is that this hardware could be updated to support plug-and-charge so EVs can start charging more automatically.
Zatmap is an EV driver app focused on helping users find and pay for public charging. In this segment, it’s described as offering features like in-car support (via Apple CarPlay/Android Auto) and discounted charging across many charge points.
An electric unicycle is like a self-balancing one-wheel scooter. You stand on it and it uses sensors and motors to keep you upright, so it’s great for moving around, just with a different learning curve than a bike.
Concept
O2 arena
The O2 arena is a major entertainment venue, and the “dome” reference is about navigating a large, enclosed architectural space. For EV-focused discussions, it highlights how personal electric mobility can be used in public venues beyond streets and parking lots.
LIVE
Hi, I'm Gary and this is Evie Musings, a podcast about renewables, electric vehicles and things
that are interesting to electric vehicle owners.
On the show today, we'll be chatting with ChargePoint operator Raw Charging.
Over the many seasons of this podcast, I've spoken with quite a few of the major ChargePoint
operators across the country, Osprey Charging, SmartCharge, InstaVolt, GridServe, FastNed,
PodPoint, ChargeY, GeniePoint and Ionity to name a few.
Whenever possible, I like to try and bring a new ChargePoint operator on every season or so.
And this season is the turn of Raw Charging, the Evie Musings podcast is sponsored by Zatmap,
the go-to app for EV drivers, helping you find and pay for public charging with confidence.
Now, in this conversation, I'll be asking key questions about things like pricing and why
Raw Charging can cut prices at some locations, but not others, accessibility, canopies,
why they might be thinking about creating their own app, and regular listeners will have heard
Victoria, Hutton and I talk about this on the recent mid-season roundtable episode and a big
favourite of mine, Plug and Charge.
Hi, Gary. My name's Neil Broadbank. I'm the Chief Commercial Officer and co-founder of Raw Charging.
We're a CPO based in the UK and focus specifically on destination charging.
Good. We're going to talk a little bit about the destination charging and because I've got some
specific questions that a few listeners have sent in about that.
And I also want to talk about some of your rapid charging as well.
But can you just give us an idea in terms of the size of the network and kind of the split
between destination and rapid slash ultra rapid please?
Yeah, sure. So we have currently two and a half thousand charging points in the ground today,
as you can imagine still growing at a great pace.
More recently, whilst we started out and took a very deliberate position in the early days,
they're building out AC charging infrastructure and destinations, primarily built on long
dwell time. Over time, we've seen different usage profiles where ultra rapid charging works for a
lot of destinations as well. So we currently have an ultra rapid charging network that's grown
to 500 sockets in quite a short period of time and they're increasingly popping up alongside our AC
charges. Are you able to share any statistics about utilisation on your network over the last
one, three months, whatever? Yeah, utilisation is a very interesting
topic for us being owned by a very sophisticated institutional private equity infrastructure
investor, where we're always kept very honest with performance of locations as soon as they're
energised. And one of the things that comes through with destination charging in particular
is seasonality for one case, whether it be peak times throughout the year or the month
or actually the week. So a shopping centre on a Monday morning has a very different profile
to a shopping centre on a Saturday afternoon, as you might imagine, which with it comes different
sort of pros and cons actually from how you operate that charging solution from a pricing
perspective as well as performance. So we have a real range of utilisations across our network,
specific to the different types of destinations that we have our charges at from one end of the
spectrum. We've got, you know, the archetypal national trust beach location in Cornwall,
where I'm from, for example, where in the summer you see fantastic usage that is really strong
and that's largely due to perhaps holidaymakers travelling down in EVs from perhaps regions
sort of south of London and so on. Consequently, we're also seeing different profiles with our
growing real ultra rapid charging networks, such as in the centre of London, there's high
utilisation all the time. So you might be seeing sort of five, six, seven hours of constant usage
from such as some ride sharing, ride hailing drive platform such as Uber, other delivery
van services using our charges. So a real range of utilisations, Gary. Can we tell us specifically
about the locations? Did you mention the national trust as a site that you work with?
What is your actual process for looking at the portfolio and saying, well, this is where
we're going to put some charges versus no, this is probably not a good site? What goes on in the
planning process before you actually commit to putting money out onto a given location?
Absolutely. And I think the answer is grounded partly in our heritage as well. So early on,
we took a very deliberate position around destination charging, where rather than building
standalone EV charging hubs, we partnered with some of the UK's leading leisure retail hospitality
destination brands to install charges in the places where people are already spending time,
which we've always been quite clear on. It gives us two clear pillars for the success of our network.
First, you just got built in demand. So we're not just relying on passing traffic,
which is opportunistic. People are already going to these locations for some other reason
than to fuel their car. And then secondly, it gives us a unique brand association as well.
Being a fast and dynamic organisation that has a growing brand, we can't necessarily hope to
have the prestigious level of sort of customer profile that the national trust or the RHS might
have from years of loyalty. So we really like to align with our host partners there. And
you must treat that with respect in answer to your question around the process for
integrating charging into those locations. Being a destination location based charging
provider, the first thing we've always done is align the charging strategy in terms of the primary
use case of a site. And often there are secondary and tertiary use cases at destination, where
ultimately different charger types and speeds come into play. So AC charges, I've heard you talk
about it before, they're perfect for the hotel use case or anything over a two hour plus stay
really. So leisure sites such as Wisley at the RHS, which we've just launched over Easter and seen
some fantastic utilisation are perfect because you might not know how long you're going to be at
that location, but you will happily charge up your car where you can. Consequently, that same
Wisley location could also be suitable for a medium DC rapid speed because you might be there for
lunch an hour and an hour and a half where actually that medium rapid option works perfectly well
or the gym, for example. And then of course, you've got that DC ultra rapid approach where
you layer in other elements of data such as traffic flow, certain conurbations, whether there
are different arterial routes around you, which might incentivise a driver either through an app
like Zatmap or a roaming facility whereby they see your ultra fast charger on their dashboard
and they can get on and off the charger within 20 minutes and carry on their journey. So we've
always taken a very holistic use case approach to the location and then layered on the use cases is
the answer to the question. So the first site I ever came across that was run by your site was the
the charge yard in Slough, which visited there a number of times. Those people who haven't been
fairly centered in the in the middle of Slough, it seems to be attached to a almost like an office
block. There are a number of, I think 350 kilowatt alpatronics there and 304 AC units.
That's right. It's, I wouldn't necessarily say it's close to the M4, although you can obviously
get to it from the M4. It's not a destination because there's not necessarily any parking nearby
or anything to do if you're not sort of visiting that particular office block.
What was the rationale for putting that site in at that location?
That's a great question and that can be described as our first hub. I think with one of the things
being want to be earlier charging operators in the UK that has perhaps matured, perhaps only in the
last few years into a much larger network. In the earlier days, we innovated with different
locational types through our host partner who owned that location. We both collaborated. It was
Aberdeen, the investment firm Aberdeen. We collaborated with them to build out a flagship hub
where that piece of land was effectively disused and nothing else could be done with it. You're
absolutely right. Is that the archetypal raw charging destination? No. Having said that,
it does serve a charging use case that we've grown to know and love those types of locations.
I think that's also spurred. That's the story really around our evolving ultra rapid network
growth where we've had other landlord partners that we've decided to work on similar locations.
You're absolutely right. It's not a destination location compared to some of the beautiful places
such as National Trust Stourhead, but it's very much part of the charging mix. We like operating
highly profitable locations like that because it helps the profitability of our entire network
manage the earlier phases of EV adoption across the UK, as you can imagine.
Now, just before we started recording, you and I were talking about the fact that we have
somebody we know in common, Charlie Gilbert from Field Dynamics. Field Dynamics themselves
is a company who provide a product and a dataset that allows companies such as yourself
to analyze given locations with traffic flows, nearby conveniences, and off-street parking,
and any number of different parameters. How much of that data analysis goes on
when you're looking at a potential site? You say you've got Aberdeen, for example,
company that you worked with there for the Charger Yard in Slout. Presumably,
they may have a couple of other locations that may be potentially suitable.
Would you be using something like the dataset from Field Dynamics to compare and contrast
one site versus another? Yes. It's another really interesting space that I'm personally passionate
about, and it's something that's evolved over the time that I've been working in the industry,
which is coming up to nine years now. I know Charlie very well, and we worked on
quite an extensive project a few years ago. I think the first thing to say is there is an
increasing amount of data, and every organization, including ourselves, including our investors,
love to get more of it. We definitely caveat everything with something being interesting
or something being useful, and we're quite disciplined in that approach. For example,
you can put a point in a map for a potential charging location and learn 100 things about it
from the number of cars passing, the population density, how many people in the local area do
or don't have EVs or have off-street parking, on-street parking. All of these different elements
will indicate to some or greater extent charging might be a good option in this location,
and you might want to be able to indicate speed that you install. We've always taken a very
holistic approach to increasingly apply data analysis with our site selection strategy
and also our site charger configuration strategy. I go back to where I started a second ago in
terms of we always ground our assumption of a site based on the primary, secondary, tertiary
use cases where something is happening on this location today, come what may, with or without
charging. Then we start to consider different data points such as traffic flows, such as population
density, which are some of the biggest drivers today, certainly for ultra rapid charging.
Destination AC charging, for example, it is perhaps more driven by distance traveled to site
and the activity occurring at the site. You do layer these pieces of data on top of each other
and take everything into account. A platform that field dynamics have developed is a really
impressive way of looking at that in a consolidated view in one screen, which is incredibly helpful
when it comes to investor discussions, looking at a portfolio really quickly to make an assessment
as to whether you can commit to investment over a period of time, also trying to understand how
the profile of a site might change over time, because obviously investing and selecting a
site with one view today will change, as we're seeing from most operators who are expanding
sites that are successful, or perhaps some locations have been stored ahead of EV uptake
and utilization is lower. Data does really help provide greater clarity on where you make these
decisions in a very rapidly growing industry full stop. We naturally are also very interested in
how something like AI could accelerate this, but again, I'll take Charlie's words and coin it for
him, try never to be more than one step away from the fact of data in front of you, because you don't
ball thing to balance. Bottom line is that data is this incredible tool that enables us to make
good decisions in the context of real world analysis and experience. I think we're a tight
team over here where experience and reviewing what we're seeing on our network today does
feed back into our decisions. Let me put myself in the position of a potential viewer or listener
of the podcast. They may be aware of raw charging, they may have been out to a national trust site,
they may have seen some of the charge in there. If I look at not necessarily your competitors,
but other CPOs who work in a similar space, we look at the grid serves of this world. They tend
to be located for the most part in motorway service areas. If I look at InstaVault, they tend to be
located around, say, McDonald's sites. Osprey charging tend to be located around Mustins,
pubs, et cetera, because these are the kind of organizations that they've partnered with.
Now, all of those also have other sites that are not located in the places I've talked about.
Other than the national trust, where would you say a typical EV driver would look to find a raw
charging site, primarily a rapid charger rather than say a 22 kilowatt or seven kilowatt AC charge?
Yeah, no, and I think your summary is spot on, Gary. Where you would find a raw charger outside
of our traditional AC destination archetype locations that we touched on would be increasingly
in the retail and hospitality space. We do have a partnership with Green King, where we're rolling
out DC charges alongside a community AC network that works well. And then more increasingly,
we have a number of retail park rapid charging, ultra rapid charging hubs with a lot of the
institutional landlords, whereby we install a substation with over typically eight ultra
rapid charging bays. Increasingly, we have installed ultra rapid charging hubs upwards of 12.
We're kind of, as an industry, I think we're stepping into this sort of super hub territory.
So we're very early on in our journey in that, but we do have some strategic locations that we've
focused on, because we know there's an established footfall there today and a high traffic flow
kind of in the adjacent area. So one of the main partnerships we're really proud of having
launched recently is the Lansik retail portfolio. So we have partnered with them in quite a short
period of time. We've formed a great partnership with Lansik, who are this fantastic, well known
real estate organization known across the UK, known globally, and we're investing around 24,
24 and a half million pounds across their estate of retail locations. A lot of those are arterially
linked. So Escape York, for example, is just off the M62 outside of Leeds. That is ultimately a
leisure destination, but it's also just off of an arterial motorway whereby people can stop for
20 minutes. With our destination hat on, we've been able to lend a shoulder to the wheel of
enroute charging, which is a fantastic thing to be able to do. So that's just one type of
location that you might see more raw charges at. Over a thousand, in fact, we'll be installing
across that portfolio. I released an episode last week about the strategic road network,
and specifically I talked about M1, because that's a favorite of mine. I looked down the
at the bottom of it, my parents have up at the top of it. As part of that, I received some data
from ZAPMAP, and we looked at all the charging hubs, six or more ultra-rapids that are either on the
motorway or within a short distance from one of the junctions on the motorway. We are charging,
I believe, have two hubs along that route, neither of which are actually particularly close to the
M1. Given that that is the most trafficked road in the UK outside the M25 with around 200,000
vehicles a day, is it an oversight that you're not actually located there? Is it on your plan to
actually have charges somewhere up along that route? Talk to me a little bit about the M1, please.
Yes, so I think with our strategy, it's often been grounded by the landlord partnerships that we
forge. So going back to our original approach of being location-based through destinations that
exist, there is a certain element of discipline that we approach ourselves. Rather than the
point-and-shoot type site-finding acquisition approach, having said that, we are still actively
looking at acquiring more sites, working with more landlords, and installing hubs where drivers need
the most. So as you say, it sounds like a very attractive region, and we've been aware of it for
a while. Obviously, you can appreciate getting stars to align in terms of the right location
with the right landlord, with the right grid connection to develop out the site. But no,
certainly in our plans, and very important to highlight, that other regions as well, such as
the Southwest being Cornish Bourne and Bred, I'm very passionate about how we can
kind of increase the connectivity. I think give them their credit. GridServe and of course,
Tesla have done a fantastic job at X, so I was just using it the other day. Again, we're lending
a shoulder to the wheel down there. We've got rapid charging hub in at National Trust Stourhead,
just off the A3A3. So that's kind of got this perfect destination and ultra rapid hub blend,
so you can catch up on your pride and prejudice views whilst charging your car quick enough to
get back on the road. I think that between them, Tesla and GridServe have kind of cornered most
of the grid capacity down in the Southwest there, and quite a lot of charging in a very
small space there. Can we move on a little bit to a topic which I know is very of great interest to
a lot of listeners, which is pricing and charging tariffs. More charging, I think that the pricing,
I mean, obviously for the AC, it's a little bit lower. But if we look at DC and DC rapid,
we're talking, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, between about 76 to 79 pence per kilowatt hour
site dependent, which is a reasonable drop below what I would call the big four or big five. We
were now heading towards 89 pence per kilowatt hour for the most part. Talk to me a little bit
about your pricing model and how you're able to actually price at that level.
Yeah, it's a good question, and I think pricing by its nature is a dynamic beast and different
organizations, P&L approach. But intentionally, we take a very simplistic approach to it.
Ultimately, we're kept honest by being owned by a sophisticated infrastructure investor where
the long-term profitability is the fundamental core tenet of our network,
alongside ensuring that our drivers are getting the most convenient seamless charge, etc.
So our pricing model is, yeah, as we say, very, very simple. Pay as you go,
contactless. Hopefully, we'll be implementing a plug and charge solution in the future,
because we know our hardware is sort of capable across Europe, because we use Alpetronic as
you've identified. Pricing is, as you say, mid-range intentionally, because it's that
destination element for the ultra rapids. But there is that convenience. We do see increasing
utilization in areas that are really busy, and you want to ensure over the long term that drivers
can get a fair amount of charge whilst also cycling through other drivers who want to be there. So
that's certainly something to manage over time in terms of time of use-based incentives to ensure
that if a hub is full, the next queue of drivers can come in, which can happen in sort of congested
areas such as London. But as I said, a very simple approach to pricing. We do have a burgeoning
loyalty scheme whereby drivers may be able to capture specific promotional-based benefits from
every time we launch a site, we actually do a week of free charging, because we like to create
awareness within the local area of a charging site. And also having a customer that comes back
time and time again is very valuable to us, because it enables us to decide whether we want to expand
a site or decide whether, actually, there are different times a day that people might be able
to leverage this, such as critical fleet vehicles and so on. Now, slightly controversial question.
If I look, for example, at a company which I would probably say would be one of your competitors,
which is the Manchester-based EV who've actually been on the show for a season's back.
They've recently taken over Mer, as you know. They've got some quite phenomenal pricing strategies
with subscriptions and time of day tariffs that knock them down to 39 pence a kilowatt hour.
And given that you're cheaper than a lot of the big five, big six, as we've already said,
but you're not down where the EV are. So is there room for movement? Do you think that they've got
a strategy which is good for the driver but bad for them as an organisation? Talk to me a little
bit about your thoughts about the PV strategy and how you may or may not be able to
to work towards that or whether you would want to? Sure. Well, firstly, it's a great strategy and
I really like PV as a charging network. I think we see a lot of ourselves in them in terms of,
I guess, being part of a new generation of CPOs that are taking the UK market very seriously.
Because I think it does create healthy competition and ensures that every operator out there has
sort of the full integrity of their product, which is something I very aligned to very closely.
It's a great model and there is obviously a strong strategic partnership there with Octopus,
which enables them to sort of leverage that ecosystem of energy and driver pricing. So
for us, we would definitely be open to exploring those different commercial opportunities. I think
it does come back to us being quite simple. We know that over a period of time, we have
certain levels of profitability hurdles that ensure the long term sustainability of our
network is underpinned by our current pricing model and on our medium to long term pricing
model, which is the one you've described. And at the same time, if you consider the destinations
that we're increasingly installing in such as within the Lancet portfolio, for example,
there's Bluewater Shopping Centre, where this is a parking space number of 13,000 and 20 million
visitors attend this site and I think north of 8 million vehicles go to this site every year. So
there is a defined customer base that go to that location come what may and, you know, let's assume
4% of that number is EV today. I think we know reality is slightly distorted when you get down
to the micro level, but let's assume a good proportion of that number is going to increasingly
become EV. We may be able to leverage better pricing optionality for those customers who
say go to Bluewater once a week and that comes into our raw rewards loyalty scheme over time. So
we definitely are proactive with that. We have a pricing strategy board where we assess the market
as well because pricing at one destination may be different for another, but again, yeah,
very simple. I think the other thing is the magic word at the moment, so we try and say it too much,
but AI definitely does have a factor to play here, I think, in terms of how we could actually give
more benefit to the customers in terms of if we get a dynamic energy tariff over a period of time,
why could we not pass that on? Or equally, could we capture some more short term profitability
if a site has been underperforming in the earlier days and has now balanced out? So I think across
a portfolio, you do take a measured view and of course, we ultimately rely on customer loyalty,
so making pricing unpalatable doesn't work. Am I right in thinking or did I read somewhere that
you also have time of day tariffs? So if somebody charges overnight, they can get a reduction in
the basic rate. Am I right about that or have I misread that?
Yes, so that will be on some select locations within the portfolio. So we, I touched on,
we have a partnership with Green King, so they have an estate of pubs and restaurants that sort of
very familiar within the kind of local community sphere, I suppose. So we see opportunity for
people who don't have off street parking at home and therefore don't have the ability to install
a home charger, but do or are increasingly driving electric cars, electric vans and
they can be incentivised to use our asset that may actually otherwise be slightly dormant overnight
in some cases and for an improvement on price, they could be incentivised to use it. So that's
a very active strategy we take and I think it's par and parcel of running a mature charging network.
Now the devil's advocate would be saying, well, if you can do that for certain charges overnight,
you can do that for all your charges all the time, but you're not doing that. So
talk to me about why that's the case, please.
Yeah, no, I think, I think there's potentially something in that, but actually I would say
again, it comes back to the heritage of our investors, you do require certainty to make
day-to-day annual business decisions around how you fund the continued rollout of your network.
So I think it happens in the round. I don't think we approach things in kind of a myopic way,
where you change the price today to make a buck for the next two days, if that makes sense. So
I think we're very conscious about where we do make a change and that kind of goes through the
pricing strategy borders as a touched upon and we do think about, I think there are unintended
consequences as well, of course, because if you do make a pricing change and perhaps competition
opens up in the local area, once you lose a customer, you have to work quite hard to get them
back. So I think a lot of it has to be grounded in logic and sort of your causal approach.
The thing that I've heard a lot of Chargepoint operators say is that if we can increase the
utilization, we can drop the price. And if you go back and do the figures, then I've done them at
a fairly high level. That's absolutely the case because you've got a large fixed cost base
that you have to pay regardless of how many charging sessions. So obviously,
if you've got more charging sessions, you can portion that out over more charging sessions
and the price per kilowatt hour drops. So there is a case to say that if you drop your price,
you will encourage a higher utilization. So rather than saying, let's increase the utilization that
will allow us to drop the price, there is a case to say, well, let's drop the price and see whether
that will increase the utilization. And I think you've kind of talked about that a little bit,
but is that something that your pricing strategy team have looked at and said,
well, no, we can't guarantee the increase in utilization just because we dropped the price.
We're going to have to wait for the utilization to increase before we drop the price. Has that
conversation taken place? Did that make sense? No, it makes sense. I wouldn't say that specific
conversations happened partly because it's almost there. There are multiple conversations in one
go in many ways. I think it comes back to that certainty. So arguably, there is a leap of faith
around price being the ultimate deciding factor. So again, going back to our destination heritage
within our mindset and within our kind of thinking process, if you go to Bluewater Shopping Center,
we always use that as the best example. You aren't necessarily being driven by price because it's
a premium retail location. So perhaps your decision as to whether you do or don't charge there
would be based on how close the charging is to the shop that you want to go to or
how fast is the charging relative to the time that you're going to spend there. So
we do take a case by case or archetype by archetype approach to our pricing across our
network. So there are the more community local charging solutions. They are more driven perhaps
by price, whereas in some locations, drivers are much more about the experience. And actually,
on experience, we're in the process with land sec of essentially enhancing the driver experience
through things like reservable bays. So drivers are very much happy to pay for the ability to have
that more premium charge experience. It's the first and last thing they do when they get to these
locations and to our host partners, whose business model of ultimately underpinned by people turning
up and spending money, it's really important to increase the loyalty on that basis. So I think
what I'm saying is pricing is one part of a factor for why people will charge. And I think you'll
be aware there's that McKinsey study. It's stacked in a bit of a Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And
I believe it's related to ultra rapid charging where the things that come into factor are pricing,
reliability, availability, speed, amenities. So I think if you tick all of those boxes,
price probably then becomes a factor. So it really does depend.
Can we move on and talk about roaming operators? Who are you connected with at the moment from
a Roman point of view? So this is a nice and straightforward answer. We are connected with
most thanks to our partnership with ChargePoint, the well known Silicon Valley based US charging
network who we've been partnered with from a very early age of the business, whereby we've been able
to piggyback on all of the hard work they've done really over the last 20 years, building out
sophisticated charging infrastructure and technology, working with all the other networks and EMSPs.
So we're actively, and it's within my role, we're actively looking at how we can increase
roaming presence, but we're very confident we're where we need to be in terms of vehicle
dashboards and so on. And of course, alongside ZAP map, which is still my go to tool, whatever
the weather. I like that. You've kind of conveniently brought us on to the whole topic of apps. Now I
had the mid-season round table a couple of weeks ago and we talked about apps as a concept. And
you know, if every ChargePoint operator had their own app, you had all those apps on your phone,
you would have somewhere in the region of 150 apps. Now, am I right in thinking there is not
a specific raw charging app? But as you say, you use the ChargePoint app instead. Is that right?
You can use the ChargePoint app to use the raw network as it stands today. We do have app development
ambitions in place, but you're absolutely right. We all have to download a lot of apps. So you need
a really good reason to decide why you want to download that and use that and use that repeatedly.
But again, I think I've been a Tesla driver for four years and the most seamless charging experience
certainly is still the thing to be strived for and contactless, of course, is an absolute
must. And I think we've always been clear about whether it be AC or DC, you need contactless
functionality on your charges. Again, put my devil's advocate out. As a ChargePoint operator,
why are you developing an app? You're not an app development company. You've said yourself,
you're looking at bringing that in. There are hundreds and thousands of companies that will
develop an app. ZapMap is wonderful. Why look to develop your own app and have to build that
competency in-house? Why not sort of go to someone like ZapMap and say, can you add this
functionality to your app on our behalf so that we can leverage that ourselves?
No, and I'm happy to be asked that question, really. I think that's an interesting discussion
for us to have with ZapMap to see how two industry minds can get in the room to see
whether there's some value that can be brought to us as a CPO that wants to do specific things
with the drivers on their network and the drivers that go to their specific locations.
So no, I'm happy to take that one. We do see value in working with our host partners really
closely. So LandSec, for example, we work very closely not only with their asset management
team to roll out the charges, which is often very complex and legal and involves liaising with
multiple parties and stakeholders to roll out these charges. We're also working with their
consumer team where they're very data-driven. They know their customers inside and out,
and they know what they do and don't like. And actually, we're at a stage where
layering and charging infrastructure into that profile and persona is part of their customer
journey, whether it be planned or unplanned. And an app or at least a digital customer journey
may come part of the charging journey.
I'll say, go back to the mid-season episode and you'll know my attitude and apps on that.
Before we move on, I did... Because I've obviously got the ChargePoint app on my
phone, which, incidentally, I downloaded because when I first went to the charge yard in Slough,
that was what it said, download the app. So I did. So it's been on there ever since.
There is a 22-kilowatt charge about two miles from where I'm standing at the moment. I went
into the ChargePoint app and I wanted to find out how much it was going to cost me to charge
at that particular location. And for some reason, it couldn't display the price. It kept saying
the price varies over time. Is that not against the public ChargePoint regulations 2023,
where you should be able to know what price you're going to be charged before you actually
start the charge? I suspect that's more of a software issue because as far as we're aware
and in our close relationship with ChargePoint, we are up to the relevant levels of compliance
across the UK. Let's talk accessibility. PAS 1899, it's a standard recommendation,
but it's not necessarily being enforced, particularly with Landsat, for example, and the
expansion that you're putting in there. Are you going to be complying with PAS 1899 regulations?
Yes. I think the first thing to say is we're charge safe accredited and we know Kate and the
gang. And then we formed a working group and a working paper following that accreditation to
kind of continually improve how we approach accessibility because, as you're right, with
an increasing EV population, inevitably we'll have a more diverse EV park and driver set.
So as sort of standard, every new site has accessible charging provisions.
And actually, we're also approaching it with other innovative approaches. So one way of
looking at it is sort of the physical approach in terms of spacing, how do you position charges.
There's that element to it. The other side of it is how could perhaps a software-based solution
enable that further. So I touched on reservable bays earlier, but we see that actually is an
innovative way to give people who might have some accessibility issues peace of mind that they
could secure a charger themselves with the usage of a digital journey to reserve a charger. So
it would be accessible for them at a particular time as well. So it's not just a physical thing.
So we've taken a really holistic approach to that. It's in sort of a development stage,
but you can understand what I'm getting at. The other side of accessibility, I think, is just kind
of accessibility with a capital A. So we're due to a quite exciting launch. Another retail portfolio
where we've had to intentionally oversize most of the spaces to cater for larger commercial vehicles.
So actually, everyone benefits from that portfolio, as you can imagine. And then I think the other
things were sort of getting into amenities, but launching cubicles and toilets on other hubs in
destinations where the destination car parks themselves are actually quite big. So whether
you are or not going to that location or whether you are or not going to that destination for its
primary purpose, and actually you are just topping up because you want to get back on the road,
we're looking at launching cubicles and kind of toilet-based blocks for additional hub-based
accessibility and comfort. Always a big fan of amenities at charging stations.
But I'm also a big fan of these canopies. Now, if we look at, I don't like doing comparisons
between CPO, but if we look at someone like MFG, with very, very few exceptions, it doesn't matter
where they put charges. They'll always put a canopy over it. And yeah, we know Fastead do that as
well. There are very, very few others that will do that at all locations. What's the
raw charging attitude or approach to canopies at chose?
This is the famous question, isn't it? And being a fan of EV Musings, I know it is a
topic that's of a great passion to you, Gary. So canopies, I like them. And you've already
mentioned our raw slough charge yard where we have a canopy. So we've done them. We
know what they're about. We know the design. We know the planning considerations. We are doing
more as part of a new super hub line within the Royal portfolio, where they're larger
ultra rapid charging hubs, where you come for an additional canopy standalone EV charging
canopies are required. So kind of touching on the point I was saying a second ago,
I think our fundamental approach is again, grounded in our destinations where
once you've plugged in, you're going into the destination that you've gone to. So whether
the coffee shop on the location or whether that be one of the destinations, whether it be one
of the garden centers, you're going inside. So that's always been our approach. And it may
change and it may evolve. I think in the retail space in particular, the retail park space,
it can be challenging to install canopies due to other retailers branding rights, advertising
rights with their big box retail advertising hoarding and so on. It's rarely just a simple
shall we do it, shall we not discussion as you can imagine in locations that are obviously
often quite prestigious or have flagship tenants higher up in the pecking order.
I am going to have to stand up and give a voice to somebody who I know will be listening, who is
Ian Trott, who is a full-time wheelchair user. And he will, I think quite rightly pull you up and
say, yes, once you're charging, you're probably going to be in the location and it doesn't matter
whether it's wet. But if you're in a wheelchair, you are going to be exposed to the elements for a
lot longer than somebody who is able-bodied. As you try and negotiate your way around the vehicle,
potentially with a heavy cable on your lap and trying to get all that plugged in. So whereas
you and I who are both able-bodied may be able to plug in and get it started on a contactless
within 15 or 20 seconds, somebody who is in a full-time, who is a full-time wheelchair user may
be out there for several minutes and they will definitely appreciate a canopy. Having said that,
I would like to point you to, and I'm sure you're aware of this, but just for the listeners,
two other CPOs who I think are doing good work in this area, MotoCharge. They've now started
putting charges in a couple of MSAs and I've been to one, there's one redding near me.
They've got individual canopies over each charger as opposed to a big canopy with a number of
chargers underneath. Probably worth having a look at that. And you were talking earlier on about
charge booking. Arnold Clark have got that nailed. I tried that about 18 months ago.
They've got the process in place. Rather than reinvent the wheel, you might want to go out,
have a word with them, see what they're doing, see whether you can use a couple of Bos words,
leverage the synergies there. I don't know. No, I think the industry is there for people to
partner to make the whole driving journey more straightforward, right? Absolutely. Now, by three,
other than canopies, my three other favorite Bos words, plug and charge. Now, you mentioned earlier
that because you're on the electronic unit, they enable plug and charge. Do you have a timeline
for doing that? Are you working with companies like Hubjects to get that put in? Again, it comes
back to our partnership with ChargePoint effectively. As a Tesla driver of four years and say I'm a
massive advocate for the plug and charge or at least with Tesla, the concept of plug and charge,
I think you rightly pointed out in your other podcast that auto charge is a feature for other
networks, but actually it's not that true integrated end-to-end multi-network vision that
everyone should be striving towards. For raw, PNC is a matter of when the implementation happens and
as a result of that, what collaboration needs to occur between effectively our relevant third party
providers because I think earlier you rightly touched on why be a developer, why be a stack
developer, tech developer. We're focused on building out the charging network and we know our
technology is functional and capable of it. So it's a matter of when and timing. So no specific
timing on it, but it's something that could come together quite quickly based on what we're seeing
with Hubject across Europe based on we know it's physically capable already. It's very possible
that our first charging super hub at Blue Water Shopping Centre with LandSec, where we'll be having
the Alpetronic HYC1000 system being installed, that has it from day one. And ultimately,
are you intending plug and charge beyond all capable units that you've got, i.e. the AC units as well,
or do you think it will only be confined to the Alpetronic rapid ultra-rapids?
Again, as I say, as a massive fan of it, it'd be lovely to think that we can get there with that
and we're confident with ChargePoint's Silicon Valley heritage and their software capability,
that that's something that is possible because the AC charging has had that ability for some time
and it's how you marry that relationship with the OEMs and the vehicles themselves. So
it's definitely an aspiration. Is it going to happen today? No, but yeah, as you can appreciate,
we do have quite a sophisticated roadmap for how we keep improving our network and as more and more
drivers are starting to use it on a daily basis or on an ad hoc basis as they're bumping into our
charges, how do we make them keep coming back? Now, when I knew you were coming on, I asked my
network if there were any specific questions that they wanted me to ask you. And two came up,
ironically, about the Breckenbeekens. Now, the first was from Sarah Sloman from
Haythroop and she said, you've had success implementing AC long-state destination charging
in rural locations such as Breckenbeekens National Park, obviously in partnership with the National
Trust. Her question was, how did you stack up the projected utilization and decide to bid first on that?
Or was it the fact that you were with National Trust, they were there,
you were going to go there regardless? Yeah, the second point there hits the nail on the head.
Having said that, what a fantastic location. So often, being that destination-based provider,
you take the portfolio approach with your partners because they're often looking for a
single integrated solution. The National Trust have evolved from being early movers in the EV
space but themselves confessing to having a bit of a patchwork quilt of generation one legacy
charging infrastructure. As part of their relationship with us, an agreement on day one
was how do we modernize the entire estate as well as expanding across most of the portfolio.
The Breckenbeekens was the coming together of an amazing project where they were upgrading the
car park itself due to increasing visits in numbers and how popular the location is,
whatever the weather, pardon the pun. AC charging is the perfect use case there because you are
climbing up a hill for quite a period of time. Sarah said she wanted me to thank you personally
for putting the chargers in there because she does exactly that. Anyway, there should go a
park up there and go for two, three hours hiking up in the... The second question I got was from
six-time Guinness World Record-holding efficiency driver Kevin Booker, who actually works in the
Breckenbeekens National Park. He said, how did you secure grid connectivity for that side? Because
he's up the road trying to put chargers in at a different location and he's struggling to get
connectivity now. I think he's talking about the Ponta d'Arc site that's between Brecken and
Merthyr Tidwell, isn't he? Do you have any insights for him about how you were able to get the
connectivity for that site? Yes, two words, collaboration and perseverance. Collaboration
in the sense that we operate a charging solution there in partnership with the National Trust.
Is their location or the National Trust are certainly custodians of their locations? We had
to work with them, with the local distribution network operator, with our grid connection
specialists and lining up all of our processes together is one thing, but actually as your
contact rightly points out, there is a lot of constrained grid there, so we actually had to
wait a number of years actually to get that site to fruition as part of a wider project where
some major reinforcements were done in the local network. They'd been scheduled for years ahead
of our project, so there was a bit of the third word would be luck there. Secondly, the perseverance
is there are a number of different processes you need to go through and move them concurrently and
make sure everyone's on the same page, so collaboration, perseverance. I would say and
particularly with the increasing levels of technology out there, grid is slightly overblown
in our experience in terms of being a real barrier to a charging installation being installed.
There's a couple of things at play there. We are often, you know, installing National Trust
properties, they are often in rural locations at the end of low voltage networks, but we've
been able to one, install AC charging, which isn't very power hungry, so you can get a charging
solution installed come what may and there are increasingly affordable battery solutions out
in the market that are able to buffer the grid or actually also serve as their own dedicated
connection off grid entirely and that's actually relevant to both the rural setting where there
isn't grid or in say the centre of an urban location where grid is maxed out or you've got a
charging hub that's so busy, which we have in East London for example, a charging hub that is so busy
we are able to create additional grid connection that we didn't think was possible. So there's a
spectrum there as to how challenging grid is, but collaboration is one of the most important
words for unlocking the UK's grid. I've got to say this, the sister podcast to this, the
social music podcast has just this week released an episode with Valor Power, who are one of the
companies that you talked about there who can provide a best battery electric storage system
with attached chargers and they do favour Alpetronic as well, so check that out if you want more
information. It's their fault station product, I think you ship it in on the back of a truck,
plug it in, put a standard grid connection in there, doesn't have to be high voltage or anything
and it will charge a battery and then straight out to the charger, so hopefully anybody who
is in your situation who wants to do that can never word with Valor Power about that.
Worth a conversation. Last season we had Craig Marsden on the show and Craig runs EVCI Global
who do accuracy checking for EV charges, so do they dispense the amount of energy that you're
paying for. Now in the work that he's done across any number of charge point operators,
he's found discrepancies as much as 30% over and under dispensing and this in certain cases was
from CPOs who were asked in advance, are your charges accurate? Yes, we're confident that they're
accurate, he did the test, 30%, are they over reporting? So people were getting a lot more
energy than they were actually paying for. Over dispensing costs CPOs money, under dispensing
leads users to be under charged and it creates mistrust between charge point operators in the
EV community, not to mention any potential legal risk. So how confident are you that your charges
dispense to within plus or minus 2% accuracy, which is the MID threshold for certification?
Yes, so it's a good question and we met with the team there because it's a topic we're very
interested in, so we're going through that exploration process but we're ultimately very
confident being supported by Alpetronic, which I think now is actually the world's leading
DC hardware in terms of sales and they're a fantastic engineering based business out of
Italy where engineering is at the core of their heritage, so they're proper product focused
individuals where ultimately the highest level of electrical engineering quality and therefore
energy output and accuracy comes part and parcel of their product. So again, I think it
comes down to us relying on tier one partners to be able to provide a reliable charging solutions.
Yeah, we're very confident and actively exploring how to say that with even more certainty.
Do you have, as we come to the end of our time together,
do you have any final words you'd like to say to the watchers and listeners of the podcast?
So I think with each day, drivers are more likely to come across a raw charger at either one of their
favorite destinations or increasingly relying on their local retail location or their local
health hospitality location to rely on our fairly priced ultra rapid charging network to get them
from A to B. Neil, thanks a lot for your time. It's been a great conversation. I much appreciate it.
Thanks, Gary. A couple of takeaways from this discussion. Firstly, raw charging are predominantly
an AC destination charging operator who have over time crept into the rapid and ultra rapid
charging space. They've linked up with partner organizations to install large hubs at several
key locations and Neil mentioned blue water in Essex specifically. Now from a pricing point of
view, they're not at the stratospheric level of some of the larger CPOs and they're looking
at the ability to use AI to help link energy pricing to charging tariffs, which I think is an
interesting approach. And I don't think it's one I've heard mentioned before. Now, if you were
watching the video rather than listening to the audio, you'll have seen a big smile come over my
face when Neil mentioned that they're giving a serious consideration to implementing plug and
charge for their arpetronic units. Now, as a big fan of plug and charge, it's interesting to note
that if they do bring it on board soon, they'll be one of a very select few who've implemented
this tech in the UK. And once customers see how easy it is to set up and use, I can see this being
the tip of the iceberg for plug and charge in the UK, as are the charge point operators taken
on boards the fingers crossed. So any thoughts on this? Do you use raw charging size at all?
What's your experience been like with them? If you have, let me know info at evmusing.com.
I hope you enjoyed listening to today's show. It was put together this week with the help
of Neil Broadbank from Raw Charging. Many thanks for his time.
The Evmusing podcast is sponsored by Zatmap, the go-to app for EV drivers helping you find and
pay for public charging with confidence. Zatmap is free to download and use with subscription
plans for enhanced features such as using Zatmap in car, on carplay or android auto,
and discounted charging across thousands of charge points.
And on the socials, I'm on Blue Sky at evmusing.bsky.social. I'm also on Instagram
at evmusing.com where I post short videos and podcast extracts regularly. So
why not follow me there? Thanks to everyone who supports me through Patreon on the monthly basis
and through coffee.com on an ad hoc one. If you enjoyed this episode, why not buy me a coffee?
Go to coffee.com slash evmusing and you can do just that.
Regular listeners will know about my two ebooks. So you've got it electric and so you've got
renewable. First one of those has had a recent update. You'll see it with a bright red image
on the front just like I'm showing on the screen here. Most of those are 99p each or equivalent
and you can get them on the Amazon Kindle store. Check out the links in the show notes for more
information as well as a link to my regular evmusing newsletter and associated articles.
Now I know you're probably driving or walking or jogging or in the shower or washing the car
but if you can remember and you enjoyed this episode, proper review in iTunes please.
Really helps me out. I did go out and go in and have a look recently as some of the
most recent reviews. Thank you very much for those who took time to do that for me.
If you've reached this part of the podcast and are still listening, thank you. Why not let me
know you've got to this point by messaging me at emusingzv.bsk to social with the words
not raw but very well done hashtag if you know you know nothing else. And thanks as always to my
co-founder Simon. You know he's always looking for new places to take his electric unicycle.
Somewhere different, modern, maybe even a little unusual. I asked him whether he'd ever
wanted to be able to cycle across the dome of the O2 arena. What was the the old millennium dome?
And he told me yes and it's another really interesting space that I'm personally passionate
about. Thanks for listening. Bye bye now.
About this episode
Raw Charging’s chief commercial officer Neil Broadbank breaks down how the UK CPO builds a destination-first charging network, then layers in ultra-rapid hubs. The discussion covers network scale (2,500+ points; 500 ultra-rapid sockets), utilization seasonality, and how site selection balances primary/secondary/tertiary use cases using data tools like Field Dynamics. Pricing gets a deep dive—pay-as-you-go, mid-range tariffs, occasional time-of-day incentives, and why they won’t chase ultra-low prices. They also discuss roaming, apps, PAS 1899 accessibility, canopy strategy, and a roadmap toward plug-and-charge.
In this episode Neil Broadbank, Chief Commercial Officer of Raw Charging, shares insights into destination charging infrastructure, site selection, pricing strategies, and future developments in EV charging networks in the UK.
We discuss:
Destination charging strategy and site selection
Utilization and performance metrics of charging stations
Pricing models and customer incentives for EV charging
Grid connectivity challenges and solutions for rural sites
Roaming, app integration, and contactless payments in EV charging
Guest Details: Neil Broadbank is the Chief Commercial Officer (CCO) at RAW Charging, a leading provider of electric vehicle (EV) charging solutions in the UK. With extensive experience in driving commercial growth across the energy and technology sectors, Neil plays a pivotal role in spearheading RAW Charging’s mission to deliver sustainable, reliable, and accessible EV infrastructure. His strategic leadership and passion for innovation ensure RAW Charging remains at the forefront of the EV revolution, helping businesses and communities transition to a greener future.
The EV Musings Podcast is sponsored by Zapmap, the go-to app for EV drivers, helping you find and pay for public charging with confidence. Zapmap is free to download and use, with subscription plans for enhanced features such as using Zapmap in-car on CarPlay or Android Auto, and discounted charging across thousands of charge points.
Download the app from the Apple App Store or Google Play Store or find out more at www.zapmap.com.
