We're going to explore ways to sharpen our diagnostic skills, find learning resources, and hear from
experts in the automotive field.
Hey, what's going on?
Automotive World!
Welcome to another episode of the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.
My name is Sean Dipping.
I will be your host once again for today's episode.
We haven't had a guest on the show for a little while, but Tommy's back.
He'll be joining us as well, along with Matthew Elder.
Matthew is from Texas.
He is a technician who just recently finished up with tech school down there.
He is looking to get out into the field and mainly pursuing the diagnostic path.
We're going to have a chat with him and run through some advice that Tommy and I both
have in regards to diagnostics themselves, but then also looking for a potential employer
and the sort of things that he's looking at as he starts his career.
He's a really nice guy, really smart, very nice to get to chat with him, but with that
out of the way, let's jump into the episode.
This show was brought to you by Auto Rescue Tools and Isaac Rotel.
If you've been looking for a programming laptop, you're not sure which one to buy or how
to set it up, especially if you want to program multiple brands.
You've got some domestic vehicles, you've got European vehicles, can the same software
go on the same laptop?
What size hard drive do I need?
All those questions.
Isaac's your guy.
He can custom set up programming laptops that are ready to tackle any make or model.
I got one of these laptops myself and I can say that it is outstanding and it really
streamlines the process by having everything you need in one device.
So if you're looking for something like that, I highly recommend checking out autorescuetools.com.
You'll also find scan tools, diagnostic equipment, key cutting equipment, and much more.
Check out the link in the show notes, I highly recommend it.
All right, good evening gentlemen.
We got Tommy and Matt here tonight.
Hey, hey, hey.
Been a little while since we did one interview with people.
How long has it been, Tommy?
Shit, man, like a couple months, man.
Yeah.
It's been a crazy summer for me, man.
And then fucking Sean wants to go on vacation.
Fucking white people vacation.
Where are you going, bro?
I'm thinking like, you know, I always, uh, it behooves me, right?
It's a new word that I got in my arsenal.
It behooves me when I hear people saying, where are you going on vacation?
Oh, I'm going to Florida.
I'm going to fucking Alabama, going to Montana, like a fuck.
That's not a fucking vacation to me, man.
And then what are you going to do?
I'll hike.
Hey, fuck you.
Yeah.
When I'm going on vacation, I don't want to do shit, like, I don't even want to get up
to take a shit.
Like I just want to just lie there with my phone off and just watch, watch some water,
whatever.
Like out of the country.
You can do that with water.
Your phone didn't have reception.
I need, I need activities.
That's, that's my, you know, me getting traced by a grizzly is not a fucking
activity for me.
Me and nature do not mix.
We didn't, we didn't see any, but like the, the fear was there for sure.
Cause you'd see people and be like, yeah, we just saw one, you know, down that
path. And so like, I'm like this is my bear spray.
And yeah, it was, it was cool though.
I would, I'd recommend it if you're into nature and all that stuff.
Negatory.
So, uh, Matt's joining us this evening.
Matt, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and where you're from?
Yeah. So, uh, actually, I did want to say before I want to say this right at the
beginning, cause I want to make sure I don't forget it.
And then I'll tell a little bit about myself, but I wanted to thank you guys
for doing this podcast.
And I wanted to extend that to obviously, and including my, my individual
instructors, but this industry in general, like as a student, cause I'm,
I just graduated school and I'm now transitioning into the industry as a
working professional.
And everybody that's in it understands how difficult it is, like how hard it
is, the volume of information that so many different areas of things you
need to, to know about.
And, you know, it, as someone once said, we choose to do these things,
not because they are easy, but because they are hard, but they are
so much harder if we don't have the people that are helping us that
are coming up behind you guys and eventually working alongside you guys,
to be able to, to do that.
So I feel like that probably doesn't get said enough.
I think that I've tried to get in the habit of thanking my instructors
at the end of every class and stuff because I know how difficult it is to
try and learn these things on your own.
And so having resources like, like this podcast where people are just
kind of willingly helping you and taking time out of their own lives to
do so, I think it's really important.
So I wanted to say that upfront to make sure I didn't forget to say that at
some point.
So thank y'all for, for doing that.
And again, everyone that helps to, to educate those of us in this field.
Well, it's, I mean, it's only, people reaching out like you,
the podcast is the only reason I keep doing it.
Um, if it wasn't for the people that have genuinely expressed the
value they got out of something I put out there, guest I had or
whatever, um, like, yeah, I would have, I would have stopped doing it.
Um, but yeah, I appreciate it.
Um, the, that, that's very kind.
And, uh, yeah, we'll, uh, we'll keep doing it as long as we can.
So that's, that's great.
Um, but yeah, so a little bit about me.
Um, I'm obviously, uh, I guess that if you can see the video,
like people know this, but mostly I think I listen to audio, but
I'm a little bit older than probably what we think of as most people
coming into the industry at this point.
I'm 44.
Um, and I actually didn't start, so I just graduated from ACC,
Austin Community College in Austin, Texas.
Um, had a cup, you've had a couple of people on this podcast, uh, that I
know from ACC and or have been my instructors.
Um, Zach Schief was one of them that was on the podcast.
Uh, and then Malcolm Tramell, uh, who was one of my instructors
also was on the podcast.
And I originally started taking the classes just for my own edification
cause I've always been interested in cars.
Uh, and so if I actually worked at a shop for sort of an embarrassingly
long amount of time, but not as a tech whatsoever, I just worked in the office.
Um, because at the time my thinking was, is that I can work on my own car.
Okay.
But you couldn't pay me enough to work on other people's all day, every day.
Uh, and it turns out neither of those things I think were quite accurate.
I probably did not know as much.
Uh, in fact, I know I didn't know.
As much as I, as I do now and hope to continue to learn more in the future,
uh, going forward and apparently you can pay me enough to, to do this.
Uh, who's got a number?
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And so, but so I just started taking the classes again, just because
I was interested in it.
And as I took more of the classes, my interest really started to, to grow.
And specifically it was, there was a sequence of events that happened
around when I took like engine performance.
Um, which was one of the classes on our program.
And I started to kind of put the pieces together.
And I think that's the class where a lot of people as students that go
through like a two year program, like I did, I, I've heard also start to put,
you know, like you have these kind of different areas of knowledge.
And you start to understand how these systems are working together
and integrating and understanding.
Oh, you can get from here to here because this is doing this.
And then this does this based on that, et cetera.
Uh, and I got really interested in it.
Especially the diagnostic side of things.
Um, and I had some interesting things happen with my own vehicle around
the same time that forced me to get better at it and learn more about it.
And so what started out is just, I'm kind of interested.
This almost is like for my own hobby to, to know about, to, to be
able to do my own car stuff and to that like, no, I'm, this is what
I want to do as a career at this point.
Um, so that's how I've ended up where I am at this point.
Prior to that, I actually went to ACC and graduated from their radiology program.
So I was in X-ray tech for actually a very short period of time because it
wasn't long that I was in that where I was like, okay, this is, I, I, they
trained me to do exactly what I, they've said they would train you to do,
but it wasn't, I wasn't passionate about it the same way.
I'm about automotive at this point where I'm studying on my own outside
of class and kind of always trying to improve my knowledge and learning
because there is just so much to, to learn in this industry.
So, so just graduated this, this past summer, uh, and, oh, and now
transitioning into the, the actual workforce at this point.
I don't, I haven't gotten a job yet.
I haven't, I've really kind of been putting it off for, I have other
things that I'm trying to get done before I start working.
Cause I feel like once I actually start working, that's when it's
going to go into overdrive because it's like, you see so much during the
day that you have to go home at night and really, okay, what did I see
today?
You know, like what, what happened today so that I can be better at it
tomorrow, if that makes sense.
Yeah.
I mean, it definitely depends on the role in the shop that you're
going to go into, um, you know, what it's going to be like at, at the
beginning, um, but just out of curiosity, cause I know literally
nothing about it, what kind of money does a person make being a, like
an x-ray technician?
Like I saw the program at the college, but I don't, I don't know
what, what's the career path on that?
So it, it was a little bit tougher.
So this would have been, I graduated in 2012 from the, the
radiology program.
So it was pre COVID.
So I'm curious myself at this point, like, cause obviously
COVID had a huge impact on everything, uh, in terms of the
pay scales on a lot of things got rearranged, uh, post COVID.
And I think, you know, healthcare in particular did that,
but how much I don't know, um, Austin is also a weird market
because it's desirable.
There's a lot of people that want to move to Austin.
So they didn't have a hard time attracting workers and they were
putting out a new cohort for, cause we have ACC here that was
putting out, you know, x-ray techs every year.
Uh, so there was always a new cohort coming out, um, to, to
fill it.
And there's only so many hospitals and clinics in the area.
But when I came out, I was PRN, which means basically like you
weren't full time is just as needed, you know, so if somebody
was taking vacation for a week, you would go in for a week or
cover shifts for people.
Um, so I didn't have a set schedule, but as PRN at that
point, and this was 2012, and again, Austin is, you can
make more money going outside of Austin.
It was like $20 an hour is, is what it was at that
point.
Um, so I don't know how that is now, but I do know if you went to
communities outside, like even smaller communities outside of
Austin, they paid more because they had a harder time getting
people sort of the downside of being in a desirable, uh, location
is that lots of people want to, to work there.
Sure.
Yeah.
Then you have, uh, you're, you're in competition.
Whereas I don't know, at least around here, as long as
I've been in the industry, if you're going to apply for a
job at a shop as a technician, you're probably the only
person applying for that job, or maybe there's two or three
people as all, all the interviews I've had, at least in
my career, it's like, I was one of very few people applying for
the job.
I would show up in shorts and a T-shirt and it was like,
okay, do you got tools?
Okay.
When can you start?
Cool.
And that was pretty much it.
Yeah.
And I don't know how that is in the industry as a whole at
this point, because you know, there's been talk about
the, that we don't have enough tax.
There was the whole big thing with, you know, the Ford
CEO saying we have so many empty bays and there's been a
lot of conversation about why that is and what, you
know, the industry's role is in that.
And people's kind of, I think a lot, there's a lot of
critique about why are we in this scenario and what
can we do differently to attract more people so that
we're not as deficient as they are with tax.
Um, is that, because I know Tommy's in Chicago.
What is it like in Chicago for, for fine and tax?
We're definitely in a weird situation.
And honestly, like, I mean, see, there's just like a
conundrum of stuff when it comes to the industry,
right?
I'm a little jaded, but I'm also like, I love what I
do and I'm, and I feel fortunate and blessed to
be able to do what I do.
But I'm also a realist.
And I also know that it's, it's not perfect, man.
Like there's a lot wrong in our industry that, but a
lot of it is like, I call it the chicken and the
egg stuff, man.
Like who, who, who, who's fault is it?
Right?
Like, I mean, people buying cars, they can't afford
because we're a consumer minded, we're consumerisms.
Like we were, we were programmed from children
that, you know, in order to actually be happy, you
need to buy shit, right?
Like, and then like, you know, you go to Guatemala,
right?
And I say it a lot, but it's just, I'm familiar with
it, but you buy a car and do it.
That car is yours until it's fucking dead.
And at that point, you're putting a boat engine in it
and it keeps going.
Like people don't change cars because they feel
like it, it's, it's, it's a tool.
People use cars to get to work because they
need to provide for their families because job
market is competitive.
So, you know, people, they don't have the money
like, like here for investing in vehicles, but
they invest in their vehicles.
Um, I mean, up until now you were, it, it was
really hard for us to find somebody to put a
transmission, an engine in a vehicle, um, because
it was just like, oh, I just go buy another
car, right?
Like we've all heard, we've, I mean, you
Sean, you've heard that, you know, plenty of
times, right?
At least as author.
Yeah, or whatever.
And then we go back to like the ease of
honoring of getting a vehicle, um, makes
people not have a concrete value behind what
they're driving.
People really just don't understand.
And I don't, I don't know if people just
can't process it, right?
But right now, like I, I have a, you
know, I'm, I'm a, I'm a GM guy.
I've had four escalades and I want, I want the
V that's like a, that's like a dream car on
my, it is $195,000.
So you mean to tell me that somebody who
buys a, uh, uh, uh, over $100,000 vehicle
still thinks the oil change to be 20 bucks?
Now I really want you to think about that.
Like, no, there's, it's, uh, it's from
10 years from now, that escalate V is
still a $200,000 vehicle with $200,000 for parts.
That's one problem.
Right.
Yep.
And then we have the manufacturers who
think we're stupid and they don't want us
working on their cars, but at the same token,
we need more technicians.
No, you need more technicians because you
keep shortchanging people on warranty time.
Yeah.
So it's like here in Chicago, the, the, the
industry is in a weird spot.
Like, aside from the political climate that
we're suffering here right now, me as
an independent, I, I have a bit of a challenge.
Um, probably finding some of a higher level
technician because, um, the majority of the,
the dealer shops in Chicago are union and
also like, uh, Chicago employs a lot of fleet.
So like, there's a, there's huge fleets here.
Uh, people's gas, uh, Comed, um, the
city of Chicago park district.
Like we have fleets everywhere.
So like, if you're not having a dealer,
you'll get a job at a fleet easily.
So then the little guys like me are just
going to be hard pressed to be able to
compete with the benefits and, you know,
though, the type of environment that you're
going to get, we have to, we have to
figure out how to compete with that way.
So that's my, um, perspective.
I have, you know, thankfully a bunch of
people who want to work with me, but I
just, I didn't want to grow another technician.
It's, it gets hard, you know, you, you
think, you know, obviously, like there's a
given to take, but you know, the last
technician I had, it was with me for on
and off for about three years.
And you know, I, I grew them and then,
you know, unfortunately things, things
just went sideways and he parted ways.
Well, it's never easy.
So like, again, it's, it's very, it's
a very unique situation in Chicago.
Um, but I see a, I see an uptick in, um, I
see an uptick in, in the industry for
the next few years, because anybody
who bought a car during COVID, it's out
of warranty right now.
And people are under water on their
loans, ugly, you have to fix it.
There is no way around it.
And then you're, and, and you're not
buying another car.
Like there's just nothing for you to buy.
Like, are you, you're going to, you
know, we, we put a transmission in the
customer's vehicle, 60, 500 bucks.
And they didn't have a choice.
My writer was like, listen, you can,
you can do this or buy somebody else's
problem unless you're buying a new vehicle.
But then this same vehicle brand new is
now $35,000.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've run into that myself and I'll, I'm
going to use the term customers, uh, just
because that's how I think of the, the
people that I do work for, they're
not actually like nobody pays me at this
point.
Um, but there's no customers.
I mean, yeah.
And they're talking about my pop
processes at the, yeah, they're
still your clients.
Like, yeah, exactly.
So I don't, I don't think of it any
differently just cause I'm not getting
the paid for it.
Like I treated the exact same way as if
I was.
Um, but same thing.
I think it's a 20, it was a 2019.
I want to say it's a Buick Encore and
175,000 miles and it's got that 1.4
Ecotech engine in it, which is not
the best.
Uh, and there's just so many things
that it needs and are wrong with it.
But she is in, it was, she's a
nursing student, she's a nursing
school and needs it to be able to
have transportation to get to and
from school, but she's kind of upside
down where it's like what she has to
pay it off.
But like the same sort of situation,
what she owes on it is more than
you could essentially get for it at
this point.
And so she can't afford another car.
Uh, and so it's like, we've got to
do what we can to, to keep this
vehicle at least somewhat reliable to
get her through nursing school so
she can start making some money to
buy a non, you know, uh, non
domestic passenger vehicle of
that particular type because I was
like, if you had Toyota or Honda, we
wouldn't be here right now.
But a lot of people end up in that
situation where they have to put
money into a vehicle that
unfortunately you'd rather
not, but it's kind of the only
option you have.
Yeah, but, but, but respectfully,
man, that doesn't even matter
anymore.
Like let's just call it what it is.
And we, you know, obviously we know
the Honda and Toyota have been like
the, the, the gold standard and
automotive quality, but I
don't, I just don't see it anymore.
I don't.
And, you know, I have really breaks.
I have an example, right?
Like, I had a poor, I had a poor
customer with a Chevy, the Buick
version of the tracks.
I forgot to think in vision on
core, this Korean SUVs that are
just absolute junk.
And yeah, I mean, this poor
lady, like it was within a month
timeframe, dude, like within three,
two months, she poured over six
grain into this car.
And I mean, and nothing we did,
you know, like we would fix was
like, these things just leak.
The last leak was actually, we
had to remove the turbo and then
the turbo had a crack in it.
So we're just like, it's already
here, you need a turbo.
And, and, and again, she's like,
you think it's going to be fine?
I said, ma'am, I, I,
what am I, I'm not going to tell
her, you know, sorry, you're
driving a piece of shit, but I'm
like, you know, hopefully after
this, like this is the, so I'll
say stuff like, well, right now,
this is kind of like the most
common failures for this vehicle.
So, you know, keep taking care
of it and it'll, it'll serve you
well for the next few years.
You know, I can't, I'm not going
to say, hey, get rid of this
piece of shit because what are
you going to buy a bigger piece
of shit for twice the amount
of money? Yeah, I'm sure
both of you guys have had
people outside the industry ask
you like, what car should I
buy? Like I'm looking for a
real reliable, you know, nice
car. Get a fucking time machine
go, go find it with 2,000
camera.
I think all the 98
Buickle Savers are rusted out
around here.
It's just so, it's so bad.
And and people like, oh, Honda
Toyota, dude, I had a twin, I
had a 2020 Accord.
We put a turbo in it from the
dealer.
Um, the car came in, and
you know, I didn't really feel
bad, but the car came in
misfires and under boost.
The turbo was bad.
All right. So I'm like, okay,
I'm not going to chase misfire
codes, but I, you know, I, I
revised it afterwards.
Car was fine, drove it, car was
fine. What the customer omitted
to tell me was it only
misfired on at a cruising
speeds like 60, 70 miles per
hour. But I found it weird
that I found this, you know,
going after like my
diagnostic process to see
what I could have done better
because, you know, the
customer was a little irate
because he comes back, he's
like, amen, like car feels
a lot better, but it's
still misfiring. I said, okay,
we'll bring it by. Let me
take a look. I saw freeze
frame and I'm just like, okay,
this doesn't make sense to me.
And dude, I, I, I checked
and I checked and I actually
ended up driving it.
I checked back pressure.
I drove it on the, on the
E way. And lo and behold,
between 60 to 70 miles per
hour, it's misfiring,
cylinder number three, dude,
guess what was wrong with
it? Fucking head gasket.
Geez. Yeah, it was, it
was leaking cooling and
cylinder number three.
And I'm just like, and
only at it will only produce
a misfire at that speed.
And I'm just, so I tell him,
dude, he, I mean, all
the research, you know, the
mileage that you have on this
thing, we either, we either
rebuilt the head or you just
get, I can find you a low
cost, like low mileage
engine. And he's just like,
dude, I wish I would have
known this. I would have
never, I would have told
you, but we didn't, we had
no way of knowing how am I
going to sit here and
diagnose a misfire with a
bad turbo. I can't.
I just, I physically can't.
And so he understood and, you
know, we put an engine in it
and so you see what I'm
saying, like in this car is
what, five years old needs
an engine in the turbo.
Right. So like, no, like
it's just the same junk.
Yeah, the Honda, so
because my sister and brother
in law are actually looking
for a new vehicle right now.
So I've been having these
conversations with them and
trying to, you know, guide
them down to this is what
I would do. But, you know,
with your money, you get to
decide. But it used to be
Honda because I helped my
mom pick out and buy a Honda.
It was a 2006 Honda Accord.
And that thing was great, you
know, it had that K series
engine. That's what we sold
it with 190,000 miles on it
and it still ran just fine
and, you know, in hindsight
should have hung on to it.
But I think I don't
recommend Honda's like I
haven't recommended a Honda
to them at this point
because Honda has moved
completely to the to the
turbos, which, you know, a
lot of manufacturers have
and CVTs, which the CVTs, I
think some of them they've
got they've gotten better.
You know, I have I have a
Nissan Versa like a 2007
Nissan Versa and so that
it's got that CVT that we're
just that one has a CVT.
Most of them had hydraulic
transmissions.
No, it's a CVT. Yeah.
So, you know, not really
one. Yeah, knock on wood
when I say that. But so
I've been trying to guide
them towards if you have
the option shoes, I would go
with the non turbo option.
I would go with a traditional
transmission, like a non CVT
transmission and trying to go
with what at least what Toyota
has the combination of port
injection and direct injection,
which that's the car
my I help my mom pick out
and replace what that
accord with was a 2019
RAV4, which luckily got
right before COVID.
So really good timing on that one.
But the least amount of extra
stuff that you can have
on a car is the way you want to go
and I tell people it's like all
the fancy stuff.
Just if you're going to keep that
car for 10, 15 years,
I don't know.
Like that's just that much
more stuff to break.
And if you want to fix it all
cool. But if you're looking
to have something that's low
maintenance that you don't have
to fix all the time, find
like the base model.
Like and that's the things
like everybody everything has,
you know, you know, eight
different eight ass modules now
in addition to everything else
and like that's just going to
break right up here.
We're going to get salt
corrosion and all that stuff
is going to you get an
offender bender.
Obviously way more expensive
to fix all that stuff.
It's just yeah.
So I'm always in that
time machine mode of like
what old car can I find
for myself so that I
don't have to worry about
any of that stuff.
We're finding up here though.
Although no, it's all
a rest of doubt.
There is a good friend
of mine, her kid,
good kid, but just like
fucking I was watching
that 70 show over the weekend.
Just a fucking kettlehead,
man.
He has a 2004
Camry that he blew the engine
on. Right.
Like it had a leaking and he
didn't care he forgot to put
oil in it.
And
so he he told it to me
for a no start.
I'm like, I'll check it out.
And then, you know, I hear
it and I'm just like, it goes
it goes.
I was like,
so I started looking for the
hole in the side of the block
and, you know, lo and behold,
number number one left
the chat.
So I call him like, dude, he's
an engine. I quoted him one
from JDM and, you know, blah,
blah, blah. I was like 3,500
something, you know, not not
just slap an engine in and
call it a day. I don't care.
And he just absolutely refused
like, no, no, no.
There's no way I'm not thinking
that much money to that car.
I'm not saying I'm like,
dude,
this is a this is a Toyota
Camry, dude. This is like the
best car you can have.
You did this.
It's not the car's fault.
Put an engine in it.
I called his mom and she was
kind of like, well, it is older.
It is going to. I'm just like,
all right, man, I'll buy the car.
I bought it for scrap just for
like, I don't know.
I said I figured I'll fix
it, slap a block in it.
I don't know. I was just like
whatever. I just I'll buy a car
like that every so often.
I had my guy lifted up because
I was like, all right, let me see
how rusty it is. It was super
rusty. Then I'll just, you know,
I'll send it to scrap, pull
some stuff off of it.
My guy comes back to do that car
is fucking clean.
I'm like, no way.
He's like, it's clean.
I was like, no, you're kidding
me. He's like, no, look, come
look, dude, this car was
fucking pristine.
So I'm like, I ran the venue
as a California car.
It was a damn California car.
I'm like, man, this kid was
a real fucking
knucklehead.
So, yeah, so now I have a
clean Toyota Camry.
We're like, you know, all
hondas.
We're spoiled here in Texas,
because yeah, we don't see the
rust that you guys do.
In fact, I was working with some
students that were like
intro students, and they were
under the very mistaken
impression. They're like that
rust makes things easier to get
off like, oh, it just falls
off because of the rust.
Things. And I was like, you
do not.
Eventually it rusts away, but
I was like, yeah, I guess if
you wait long enough, maybe
that's true.
You guys have no idea how lucky
I watch enough videos, you know,
from places that are up north.
I feel like like South
Maine auto.
You know what my funny story
about rust was?
You don't know what you don't
know, right? Like I grew up
wrenching in Chicago.
So it was just common practice
and like, um,
I was in Florida.
Some some chick that I was
seeing wanted me to change
her axle on her on
her Honda. And I'm like, dude,
I'm not going to do this.
I'm like, it was the older
Honda with the wishbone.
So you had to you had to pop
the the lower, uh,
the the strut tower
bolt to get it out.
We'll get stuck in the bushing.
Oh, do you know how bad those
things used to get stuck?
And I'm just like, lady, man,
I don't want to do this job.
Take it to a shop because I
don't even have a torch here.
I don't have nothing.
I'm going to do it on your
garage sitting there with a ball
of maps gas.
Yeah, man, just praying that
this bushing doesn't cease.
And then if it does, you got
to bang it out and then get
it out. I'm like, nah, I told her
I don't even have a press here.
I'm not doing it.
I'm not doing it.
And finally, she like convinced
me to do it.
And I'm just like, all right.
So I went to go get some map gas
and I went to prepare myself
as meant as as much as a
possible. I was done in 20
minutes.
I'm like, what's going on here?
I've never seen a sway bar
link fucking actually come out.
Everything came off like butter.
I was just like, what is this
sorcery? Where am I?
And then and that's when they hit
me like, well, there's no salt here.
Like they don't, you know, they don't
salt the roads.
So I was like, wow, that was
dope. I just had Noah put
a wheel bearing in my van, which is
a press in style.
And mine is all rusted the hell
because it's from Minnesota.
And I was watching him do it.
And I haven't done a press in
wheel bearing.
I'm probably about five, six years
now. And I'm like, I don't
miss that at all.
Like no part of that is
something I want.
I actually paid somebody to do
something. Or is it like one of
those things where you're like, it's
easier to pay?
I I dyag the car for him and he
put a wheel bearing in mine.
And I was very happy.
Nice.
For that surface.
Somebody coming in like, I
have to pay my dues.
Like they're I
diagnostics is ultimately where I
think I'll end up.
But I know that I have to
spend my time in the trenches
before that because I want
to be able to say
because at least you
are like, I've done this before.
I know how to do this.
I just don't want to, you know,
I'd rather have some mechanical
understanding of the stuff is
important. And, you know, we
have I've run into that
you know, trying to grow the
team.
And, you know, some people are
more they have more experience
with the actual mechanical side
of thing. They were technicians
had taken all this stuff apart
and then some haven't or at
least not as much.
And it shows like there are
definitely deficiencies when
you're trying to figure out what's
going on with the car if you never
had the parts apart in your
hands. And I'm even finding that
now where
like four years ago
coming into this, I'd had most of
the stuff apart.
And so I could say, yeah, you're
going to take this apart and you're
going to find that thing.
And it comes out like this.
That's your problem.
And now I'm dealing with stuff
that never had a part.
And so I'm like, I'm reading
the service info.
It's probably works like this, but
you guys get to take it apart and
see what's going on because I've
I've never got timing
on engines.
If I've done timing on an engine,
like if it's all five four or
something, I can tell them exactly
like what they're going to find
and how they're going to find it.
But if it's on something new that
I've never had a part, I'm like,
I'm just kind of guessing.
Like, I know it's off.
Take it apart, see what you find.
So there there's this, I think,
a definite advantage to
to do in that stuff, at very
least just understanding, you know,
the the physical, how the physical
parts work together, lining up
camshafts and crankshafts.
Because if you're trying to diagnose it
without that reference,
you're at a loss for sure.
Yeah, that's I feel that way.
And that's been my experience that
and that's what, again, sort of
makes this industry, I think
so difficult.
And again, I don't mean that in
a in a bad way necessarily,
just it is what it is.
But you just have to have
so many sort of different areas of
knowledge. And like I said, you
can have people that are really
good at sort of the sort of
the mental side of things
and understanding how that works.
But then the actual physical side
is a whole nother thing that you
have to get good at.
And like you have to have
a certain proficiency just working
with your hands to do it.
And I think, like you said, to be
really good, you need to be able
to do both.
And they're not exactly
the same, but both are important
for each. They help each other
be better at both, if that makes
sense. You got to have a mental
image of what you're working
with when you're trying to work
through something.
I mean, even even with
electrical, like I feel like you
have to have a mental
idea of what's happening, even
if it's not like, you know,
physics, correct.
But like if you can picture
what's happening in that circuit
in your head, that's like the
basis to trying to get through it
and trying to figure it out.
But the same thing is true for
mechanical. If you have no idea
how the suspension components
work together and you're trying
to diagnose a clunk.
Good luck.
Like it's not going to happen.
And the best way to do that is to
take it apart and put it back
together a hundred times.
And then you know exactly all
the parts that are moving and
why that clunk happens over that
bump and it sounds that way.
And oh, if I turn this way, it's
lighter because that's
that's all part of it.
Yeah. No, I agree.
And I think that's something
that I think I see.
And again, I'm still new
myself, but I'm now seeing
newer students that the ones
that like intro and the taking
the classes behind that coming
behind me.
And I think that's something that
kind of gets missed a lot of
times. And this is probably true.
I think of the industry as a whole
even for people that are working as
techs at this point where I
feel like a lot of times there is
too much just doing
something like just
taking something apart or just
like a replacing brakes, but not
actually stopping and knowing
what you're looking at and like
spinning that a little bit of time
to be like, does this look right?
Like, is this even
should this thing be in the center
here? First, like compare to the
other side, things like that.
I feel like there's in a lot of
times that they're just not
really sure exactly what they're
looking at. They're just kind of
like, I know I just do this, this
and this and not taking a little
bit of extra time to really
understand how does
this work?
And I'm like constantly doing that.
Every time I see something
I got my flashlight
and I'm looking and trying to think
through. So if this does this
will do that. And like, and it's
helped me. I've been able to
catch problems because I was like,
that doesn't look right to me.
And it turns out sometimes it's
not right because something
was doing something it wasn't
supposed to. And so
do y'all see that from the
shops that you that you go to
and see your own texts where
people are just kind of like
not really diagnosing
the what's the underlying
fault because they're just doing
all the all the time
with decades
decades of experience texts.
So yeah, every day, all
the time, everywhere.
So yes, I
can see it like and I see it in
the students too. And I always
try and stop and be like, no,
I want you to stop and what
understand what is happening
like what you're looking at.
Don't just less just
doing a little bit more
thinking about what it is.
Well, if people call us up
like, hey, my car doesn't
start when you come out and
check the PCM for updates.
Like that's that's a very, very,
very common call that we get.
And we're like, dude,
like that's not how this
works. And I get it.
Like if you're not in the
programming, like, OK, you don't
understand all the ins and outs
of it. But like, like just a
little bit of like, what's
the software update?
What's the purpose of it?
Like, how does that interact
with my car?
You know, it doesn't crank.
Do you really think like they
just released a software update
fix it? I don't know.
That's true. But, like,
so much of the time, no, it's
like you need to put, you know,
some effort into it.
So yeah, like you say, ramp it.
It's very common.
Mostly laziness.
That's it, you know.
And I think I think a lot of it
is a lot of people don't really
care that much about their job.
They're just trying to get through
and make a couple bucks.
I think obviously you're somebody
who is very interested in cares
about this and you'll do very
well for yourself.
I hope so. I mean, I think that's
important, like having dealt
with people like my customers
that have had bad experiences
with other shops or had shops that
where it's like, they'll start
telling me what their sort of
order was for like what they
were checking and what order.
And I'm like, why why
did they start there?
Like why would you do do all
that for like for what this
problem is that doesn't make
like logical sense to me.
And so the problem is somebody's
going to pay for that.
You know, like it were
like I guess sort of best case
that are in those cases is the
shop is eating that time.
But a lot of times I'm not what
happens. They end up charging
the customer for not
really knowing what they're
doing.
And the customer
suffers because of it.
And we all know what it's
like to I think of this
industry almost as like going
to the to the dentist.
Like nobody really loves
going to the dentist.
You know, a lot of times
you're going either for
regular checkup like an oil
change sort of thing and you're
just hoping they don't find
something expensive while
they're in there doing your
cleaning or whatever.
Or worst case scenario, you
have a problem and you go
to them and you're like sort
of afraid.
Yeah, what is that going to
what is this going to be?
But what helps is if you
have a good dentist that you
know, like I trust my
dentist, I know that he
knows what he's doing.
If he says I need this,
then I need this, you know,
I know that he charges a
fair amount for for what
he does. He's not trying
to, you know, sell me on
things that I don't need.
And that just helps
put on a daily
like basis that helps
people just have
better lives.
Like just being able to shed
some of that anxiety
and know that I have this
problem. I can go to this
person and they can fix this
problem for me.
But you it takes effort
to to to get to the point
where you can do that
because again, as we
this is hard, there's a lot
to know, and it's only getting
more complicated.
And so I think
for me, I've had
experiences with my customer
where I get really personal
satisfaction out of being able
to fix something that they've
struggled with or that
they haven't whatever
they've taken it to other places
and they haven't been able to
figure it out.
And so I'm sure you probably
see that a lot where it's like
we've done this, this and this
and we can't figure this out
and then you can come in
and it's like, oh my god, thank
you. I'm so glad you can do
this for me.
Yeah, I mean, there's there's
definitely those moments where
people are just fricking pumped
because you found a connector
that was loose that, you know,
has had the thousand dollars
thrown at it.
Yeah, definitely good feeling
and they're they're super
static about it.
So OK, what is
what are your expectations for
where you're heading this
industry? What's your dream
position? What are you shooting
for? I'm just curious, as
somebody looking at this from
the start, you're excited about
it.
Where do you think you're going
to end up?
What's that going to look like
for you ideally?
That is a good question.
I'm not sure because this is
again, for this is pretty
still new to me.
This isn't something that was
like, oh, I've spent,
you know, I had thought for
a long time, this is what I'm
just going to do and go to
school for that. It's within
the past, certainly
within the past two years and
probably even less time than
that, that it's kind of like, oh,
this is this is what I'm going
to do and stuff.
But I feel really fortunate
because I've spent a lot of
time trying to find something
that I that really
stimulates me the to
learn and to grow and
to challenge myself to fail
a lot, but to actually
not be afraid of that because
I'm like, OK, that just means
I have something to learn and
I'll be better at this
tomorrow.
So I think
that starting
out, like I said, I
want to go work somewhere
that is a shop where I'm going
to see a variety of things
because as we talked about, I
think that's really important,
even the stuff that I think
lots of texts have seen a
hundred times before, it's like,
I haven't seen I haven't done
a hundred break jobs, you
know, I haven't done a
hundred oil changes at
this point.
And so there's things
I can learn from every job
that I that I do.
I would say in an employer,
what I would look for at
this point starting out in this,
but I was going to ask you what
y'all's thoughts on this was
is that I would say
for me personally, anybody
and any any
shop or dealership that I
went to that would want to
start me out on flat rate is
all automatically like that
I'm not interested in working
there.
I think that a
shop that understands when you
bring in a new tech and is
willing to grow a new
tech understands that
no, you need to start off
hourly first because
you're they're
throwing you into the deep end
sink or swim is not
the the recipe for
success.
And I think unfortunately, I
think that's what happens a
lot in the industry because
it's like, oh, if it works
out for you, great.
If it doesn't, well, it
doesn't cost us anything
because you were flat rate.
So you just got paid what
we would pay anybody else
for those jobs that
pays two hours but took you
five hours because you're a new
tech.
So for me, that's
what I am looking for, because
I feel like the
shop and
a dealership that is willing
to invest in you,
you should be willing to
invest in them as an employee.
I feel like that's a two way
street.
I feel like the same way with
people, you know, you should
invest your time and
effort in the people that are
willing to invest their time
and effort in you.
So I would say starting out
that is what I am
I'm looking for is
that's a good sign that OK,
that they're willing to grow
a tech and
let me
improve so that I
can be better for them and
for myself.
What are your thoughts on
when bringing it into it?
Because I know Tommy said that
he had somebody that grew and
feels a little like got burned
maybe on that
at one point.
When I say I got thrown to the
wolves, man, I got I got
thrown into the fucking ocean
full of sharks, man.
I am.
I went from hourly oil change
Lube Tech to a full blown
technician.
And
very first job they gave me
was a heater core on a brand new
Nissan Pathfinder.
Took me out the whole dash.
Yeah.
I'm sorry, it took me like three.
No, it was a five hour job
or warranty paid five hours.
It took me three days.
I can.
Yeah, because, you know, again,
very scared brand new car,
very unknown.
But
I don't know, man, truth be told,
I ate it.
It, um.
You know, I have mixed feelings
because.
Although I do agree with you.
The problem is the industry
itself is not conducive to
what you're asking for, right?
Like it can be.
But then to pay you hourly
a decent living wage,
you're going to have to do a lot of
monotonous shit.
Like, like you're going to have to
do oil changes.
You're going to have to do great
jobs and, you know, a lot of entry
level stuff because
that's the majority
of like high profit
part of our industry is the C
level stuff because it
it takes a non
not very skilled technician.
It's very quick.
There's a lot of parts markup.
And then there's a lot of
there's a lot of repetition, right?
Like you don't really have to worry
about somebody doing time.
I mean, yes, there's there's obviously
there's professionalism and everything
that you're going to do in a vehicle,
right? Everything is dangerous.
You know, oil change can cost an engine.
Tires can cost somebody their life.
Brakes.
But if you really want to
hone your skill sets, man,
I don't know, man.
I was I was forged by fire like
I just I got thrown
into it. And I don't know.
I don't know how I think Sean kind of
went through the same thing.
And actually, man, when I moved to
flat rate, I don't know, man,
it served me well.
A lot of people don't like it.
A lot of people don't like don't
agree with it. And that's fine, man.
I mean, what's what I feel
for me is more important for you
is to find a shop culture
that matches with you.
It doesn't matter if it's independent
or or or or or or a dealer,
you know, find a culture that fits
for you and then you and you'll be
more successful that way.
Like I would be more concerned about
that, in my opinion,
then worried about somebody's
pay scale.
Because, dude, I know some killers
that are due there in the double
digits.
During the upper during the upper
hundreds on flat rates,
pure flat rate.
So yeah, I think ultimately
you could make more money on flat.
Like I'm not.
This is, you know, if you're a
hustler, yeah, everybody.
No, it's not good for everybody.
Because I and
you know, because I know a lot of
shop owners, I had a shop owner
who they begged their technician
to go on flat rate because they
were constantly booking over
hours and they just
didn't want to.
They they just they they didn't
want to. They were just happy
getting us out. And that's fine.
They didn't see that. And that's
the beautiful part about
communicating. So you're on a
right path because you know what
you want.
I'm just saying keep an open mind
and I feel for me
culture is more important than
anything. Like my shop culture
is more important. Like so my
my technician left again.
Nothing, you know, I don't
think there's anything I could
have done there. He just he
moved. He moved states.
So he left.
I had a roster of guys who
wanted to work with me.
But I just I was looking for a
particular person
and
I got tired, man.
You know, I'm busy like I have
module stuff. I got like mobile
programming. I take a site.
I'm growing this business
from scratch basically again.
I'm learning how to run a
business.
And so then
I just I made a decision to
hire somebody after a month
because I just I couldn't do it
no more.
And
before I hired them, I
actually paid them for a
day. I paid his wages for
paid his wages for a day.
I'm like, how much do you make
now this much? OK, I'm going to
pay you to come come work here
for a day.
And, you know,
I wanted to see how he worked,
how efficient he was, how good
he was at certain things.
But very important for me was
how he fit in with us.
Like we we all eat lunch
together, like, hey, man,
come eat here.
Here's some food.
Hey, just grab whatever you want.
There's drinks there. There's here.
There's that. And, you know, just,
you know, we were just all chitchatting.
I have my to my nephew
and my my apprentice.
And then, you know, I have my
writers.
And, you know, at the end
of the day, before I told
him anything, I talked to the guys
and just like, hey, what do you guys think?
He's like, hey, we like
him. Think he's cool.
Then I talked to him, gave us
expectations and I gave him an offer
and he took it.
So culture
is just king for me because, dude,
you're in there more.
You're going to spend more time
working with your family.
Yeah.
So I don't know what you think, Sean.
Hey, have you ever been faced with
the challenge of sourcing,
installing and programming
a used control module and
vehicle? I know a lot of us
have. It seems to be happening
more and more often today with
the volume of control modules on
vehicles, the cost of some new ones
or even the availability of
new control modules. In some cases
used may be the only option.
So what do you do here?
I strongly recommend checking out
SJ auto solutions and Tommy
Oliva. Tommy offers
a cloning service for
use control modules to make
these things plug and play
for the vehicle that you're working on.
In a lot of cases, he is also
able to source the control modules
if you're unable to
locate one for the vehicle that you're
working on. But once you get connected
with Tommy, he's going to offer
fantastic support from
start to finish to make sure that
that control module is going to work in
your application.
He's also got tech support that he offers
through his website, along
with some free resources there as well
on information about
used control module
programming. So make sure to check
out SJ auto solutions.
I can't recommend that enough.
Yeah, I mean
I agree with you that
starting off flat rate
sucks because you're going to be
terribly inefficient. You're learning stuff.
And if you're on strictly on flat rate
at that point, that is pretty shitty.
And so there should be at least
some, you know, entry
period. Let's get you up to speed
on hourly before we transition you
or let's have a guarantee or something.
A lot of places have that.
But depending on your style
and what you're able to do
eventually
you'll get to a point where if
you're doing repair work, I would
say diagnostics may be different. But if you're
doing repair work, you'll eventually get to a point where
like, okay, I could be making more on flat rate.
And I went too long because I
my first job was like hourly plus
commission and I wasn't good enough to really
make any money off of that. But then I went to a shop
and I was just hourly and I was there for five years
and I grew a lot during that
period of time. But I lost
a lot of money because when I went
to flat rate, I doubled what I was making
in that next year. I'm like, oh, I should have been on this
a long time ago because
I could I could crank out some work.
So yeah, again, it's
for the it's for the right person. If you
understand efficiencies, you know, like
you can, you can
my life was in tenths
of an hour. Like that's how I thought
about everything was tenths of an hour.
Like everything I did is like, okay, how
many tenths of an hour is this costing
me? You know, and
you know, you really
you put in the time you put in the
work, you get to it and then that's how
you're making, you know, 100 hours in a week or whatever.
But
it does depend on, you know
what your ultimate goal is because
diagnostics not suited for Diag.
We've talked about that plenty of
time or I'm sorry.
Flat rate not suited for
diagnostics.
That's that's not going to work out. So
yeah, I would I would ask, you know, if
you're interested in the diagnostics side
of thing, you want that to, you know, be
all a part of your job.
Then I would talk to the people there, like what is your
what do you what do you guys
do for diagnostics? Like how do you handle
that? How do you pay your guys for
diet? Do you see yourself or have
a role for somebody who is
you know, handling most of the
diagnostics
and and see, do they even
have an idea? Is there a role
for that?
If that's what you're shooting for again, just
talking with you, it kind of sounds like it is
because
that that changes things and everybody kind of
does that, you know, differently.
I'll explain it the way I do
it and think about
this too. When you're talking to a potential
employer, just understand from their
perspective, it's just a math
problem really like
I'm bringing you on. I'm paying you this
much. I
need to make this much.
You need to make this much for me and I would
like you to make this much for me.
It's just it's a math problem. So how much
value can you bring
to to the company and you have to
bring at least this much value or
at least somebody else has got to be really
crushing it within that
that system to make up for you, but
that's that's not long term.
But anyways, it's a math
problem. So what value can you
bring to that that system
and really think about that before you
go in because you can express that
to the potential employer be like, here's
what I can bring to the table.
Maybe it's a year down the road. Maybe I need
some training, but I'm willing to get there
and willing to do this.
That's going to be very attractive, but
the way we do it is we have a guarantee
my guys are salary like
you are going to make this much money
every single week
regardless as long as you show up for work
and then we have a bonus. So if we
hit our numbers
at the end of the month as a group
we have certain numbers that we're shooting for
if we hit those then everybody
gets a bonus. And so it's
it's a team based thing there
so everybody, you know, it's got to
pull their weight, but hey, sometimes
I have a shitty week. Sometimes you have
a shitty week.
Yes, yes it's
it plays
into the overall amount that we make that month
but one one person
having a shitty week doesn't kill the month
and so we can still get there as a team
and so at least that small scale
that's worked out really, really well for us is to
have kind of there's an incentive
because, you know, everybody can say
what they do, but people are incentivized
by money
and you make that incentive right and people
are
definitely willing to work towards it or put in
the effort to get there
but the guarantee in
at least in my opinion, I don't know my
colleagues can tell me if I'm full of bullshit, but
I feel like it's a very livable wage
that I'm offering as a guarantee and then
hey, if we all kick ass then we get
something on top of it.
And that's how I have it set up to work pretty
well for us.
So there's still like an understanding
that you have to be efficient. We want
you to crank out work. We want you to make money
but you're not going to be high and dry
if it's January and it's super
slow and there's nothing to do.
I'm still going to pay you. I like that.
Sort of that building that
team feel to it
because it really is a team sort of
thing and I think that's
important because this can be such a
and it's one of my concerns honestly
and the more I work
sort of
the less I get concerned about it but one of my initial
concerns was that this can be a very like
isolated profession
where you're working like even
you obviously mobile diagnosis very
much so but even working in a shop it's like you got your
bay, you've got your jobs, you're doing your
things and you're not really working.
Well it can be a lone ranger thing.
If everybody else
is just trying to get theirs
why stop and help you.
Again going back to what Tommy said
that's culture.
I can tell you that
that's culture and now
I will tell you this just keep this in mind
I'll give you some advice
and Sean can correct me if I'm wrong
but in my humble opinion
there's three paths to this industry
path number one
you want to work on
newer shit
and potentially be able to make
some good
decent money
I'd probably do dealer
you're going to learn
how to master one vehicle
the master repetition
and you're going to
have access to a lot of training a lot of
new stuff
and potentially depending on your area
maybe higher up in terms of pay
like I said potentially
hear me out
downfalls would be
it's very lonely and the majority
of dealership cultures they suck
I'm pretty sure there's some good ones
but the majority of them are not conducive
to people who really enjoy what they do
most of them again it's just people who want to
come in do their work and get the fuck out
then there's the fleet
approach
if you want security stability
hourly
decent hourly rate
and not want to do a lot of work
want to do easy work
it's just the truth it's just fleet
right like especially
it's a very different pace especially if you're in
like a major municipality
dude those guys have it
they have it sweet and then they still don't
do a lot of major work
so fleets fleets are good
for that for security
stability
and ease of work
but the downfall
is not a lot of training
and it's
me Tommy for me
I can't say I can't stay still man
I'm I need to feel
like I earn my money I am not
a
not speaking bad about the unions
at all but I am not a union guy
I do not want somebody saying me okay
you this is how much
you're gonna make and this is as much as I can pay
you know
I need to decide how much
I'm getting paid my work is gonna
provide you the ability to pay me what I want
that's me personally
um
if you're really thinking about doing
dyag man
I strongly suggest
find a very very
very high-paced
um
very well run independent facility
not all of them are good
but there are some rocks like some
really really really kick ass
um
independent shops look at your
what are your students John
he's doing great
um he was able to sharpen his diagnostic skills
he found a good shop that was able to mold him
he started as a
sea level tech now he's their shop foreman
um
so I think if you're trying to do
dyag and then also like
let's let's just be realistic here like
I what I hated about the dealer
was I'm
limited to to honing my craft
on one brand
and then again obviously it's all nuts and bolts
but then when you take a jump to another dealership
or that dealer closes something happens
and you're like dude now I gotta do all these certifications
and learn a whole new different vehicle
you go into the
into the independent world you'll
get this kind of like
I'm not I'm not a master of anything
but I can fix anything
and with diagnostics
that really helps you because you get tunnel vision
like I know some really good like
you know like technique dealer
technicians who are
the exception but I don't know a lot of them
who are just kind of like yeah I own
what I work on because I don't know
how to fix anything else
I have a GM buddy
and I fix his wife's car she drives a palisade
because he just doesn't want to deal with it
so
in my humble opinion
that's kind of like
your your your pathways
in this industry
I think that really kind of jives with
what I've heard from talking
to some of my instructors
I know one of my instructors
got mentioned
not by name but in both
Zach Sheaf's podcast
and in Malcolm Tramell's
he was mentioned in both
and I said not by name
but when they were talking about him
like I know who they're talking about
and so his name is King it's Henry King
and he's one of the instructors
that's been really influential on me
and so he does at Mobile Diag
for a living
he actually owns a shop too
but at this point the shop kind of runs
itself and he does the mobile
because that's what he likes doing
and that's what he's really good at
and so I had
a thing I don't really want to say where
but that I did have one dealership
that I went to
because I had a question about one of their vehicles
I'd seen something online somebody
was like I wonder what this is and I was like
I wonder what that is too and so I looked online
I couldn't find the answer and so I was like
well I can just go down there and ask
so I did and I ended up talking
to their to their lead tech
and shop foreman
and I because this is
I'll say it's like a it's very specialized
it's a it's a dealership but it's very
specialized
I think I had some preconceived notions
about what it would be like to work there I hadn't really
thought like I had not considered it all
working at a place like that
but even without really thinking about it
I had some preconceived notions but in
talking to their lead tech
who took the time it really took time of his day
to just talk with me about stuff
and stuff which I really appreciated obviously when people do that
I think I
was probably wrong and about some of the things
that I thought about what it would be
like to work there and it seems
like the work environment
would be like Tommy was saying
sort of the culture that I think I would be
be looking for because
because it is a specialized dealership it's a lot smaller
it's not like one of the giant dealerships
where you're just a sort of a number
but I remember
so I was talking to King about this
because I was like hey I had this I
hadn't really considered working at a place like this before
but I liked
the person that I talked to he took his time
with me
and he expressed say with the same
concerns though that Tommy had he's like
the downside to that is
it's a dealership and you're doing
something very specialized
and whereas if you go and work at
like an independent shop
you're going to see a lot more variety
like what y'all see in a day
like there's a huge variety
of the type of vehicles
type of problems and stuff like that
and that was his concern
the same way like the Tommy says
if you're interested in Diag
you know that's
sort of the downside of going with a dealership
and even a non-specialized dealership
you're still kind of specializing in that
that make
of
of vehicle
and I think there's concern about
that kind of stunting
my growth I think as a
diagnostically because of only
not seeing the variety that
you guys see as like independent shops
the variety
can be daunting and especially
early on because you're
learning like something fresh
like each car that pulls in
and you know a
2002 Camry and then
a
2022 Chevrolet pulls in
those are very different things obviously
yeah okay there's some similarities but the systems
and the scan tools and the
you know you're learning
something new every single time
which I still am
every single day I write something down that
I learned it's brand new to me
I've been doing this for a long time
but when you're first starting out
and like you don't have like a
a base and a reference for most
of this stuff it is a very daunting
challenge so
I guess if I'm you know a new tech
starting out today I would sure hope
that there's someone there to support me and help me through
you know somebody I can lean on
that it's not just
hey Sean's coming in
at you know four o'clock
and then he's by himself until
close which that was
the case when I was at one of my first
shops is I was just I was just there
I was there by myself to handle whatever
came in and good luck and
it you know it did not go well some days
um like Tommy
said I mean jump you know getting thrown in the deep
end it's not the worst thing for
your experience but it's it's
daunting it's challenging and
you know cause a lot of people to just say
screw this I don't want to do this
yeah that's I think
definitely uh understandable
to do that and that's what I
am not looking for
I think that and again that's why
that this this dealership that I went
to was not like that
like I think I kind of expected that they
in particular would especially be like
that but it was sort of the opposite that
they were much more like they had hired
somebody out of UTI a couple
years ago and had really good luck with them
and training them up and stuff like that and working
under the the other texts
there and like that was
really attractive to to me is
that the that thing
and I know I probably maybe gave though Tommy
the wrong idea when I mentioned like pay at
first but to me the sort of the pay is it
in that way is sort of indicative
of the culture of how they're going to
treat somebody new like if they're going to
start you off on flat rate
right off the bat to me that's somewhat indicative
of are they willing
to invest in you and help you grow like
let you work under a master
tech and stuff to to grow your
skills at least initially starting
out because I think that is super important
and the idea that you're kind of new and
they're just going to leave you to figure it out yourself
I think is not a recipe for
success for I mean like
it is trial by fire I'm not going to act like
that there isn't some benefit to that sometimes
like forcing you to
figure it out but you have to screw so much
stuff up in that period of time
that's kind of why I'm torn because
I feel like it made me who I am
yeah I mean I can see both sides
yeah so it's kind of like
um
and then people talk about money and then tooling
and yes it's like it's it's hard man
like no matter what this is a hard industry
to start off at man I mean I
I didn't have shit
I didn't have
anything I
I actually ended up financing
my first scan tool because I was broke
man I didn't have any money and
um
when I first when I started like wrenching out of my
dad's shop like on the side
I didn't have any tools man
um there's a couple things
that my dad had lying around
and um a cheap little box
from from craftsman a
220 piece set
and uh
because I said you know I'll
buy a scan tool first because nobody will borrow
me one but I can probably you know
one of the shops or somebody down the street
will borrow me something
dude nobody borrowed me shit man
like
for a while I was renting tools from from az
until I finally paid off my scan
tool and then after that I
took out another
another loan
to buy more tools and then like my
money my uti gave
they gave us like some money to buy tools with
and I did and I calculated
that and that's how I got my
start um
but I just
you know I I feel like
for me I invested wisely
um
I knew what I needed and I went after it
and I think
a lot of technicians who start off
with are more concerned about how
things look and then you get
here a lot of guys buying
uh
toolboxes and whatnot when they're first starting
on them just like dude you don't even know if you're going to like this
shit man to be buying a
$7000 box
and another thing too like like
for tooling and stuff man like
I feel like it's
easier now because man those craftsman tools
people will swore by them but dude
they sucked
I don't care what anybody said they were not
they were not a professional line of tools
and now you can get some halfway
decent stuff at Harbor Free for like cheap
oh for sure I
I try and
tell people and you know again this is
somewhat speaking from a little bit of experience
but obviously not the level of experience that you guys
have and what the
listeners have is that but
even from my experience I was like
let the work kind of tell you what you need
um like a lot of people want
to go out and buy all this stuff right off the bat
and I was like have you had a job that required
you to have that yet
you know and it's like have you seen it more than once
uh and even then
like you said do you have to buy
Snap-On right like no
like you you can
there's better
there's less expensive options
that will do the thing but
you'll get to a point where I feel like
it
the work kind of tells you what you're going to need
uh for this at a certain
point you can do that so I'm curious what your thoughts
are on but specifically
scopes and scan tools
and because I have my thoughts on that but I'm curious
what y'all's thoughts on for a new tech coming in
like should they have their own scope
and or scan tool
yes or no and what are your thoughts on that
I mean if you want to buy a Uscope
it's $150
I think that's a good idea for
anybody to have
um but what I would do
is and around the scan tool stuff we can talk
more about that but
you know whatever shop you're in
go to the lead tech
or the tech that's making the most money
or the most successful tech
or there's probably a few of them in a given shop
and just ask them be like what tools
specifically make you the most money
like what is the best return
on investment specific tools
right and as a tech doing repair work
I probably would have said something like these
um impact swivel sockets
I'm pulling them out you know these
specific tools make me a
boatload of money my three ace electric
impact makes me a boatload
of money compared to what it cost me like
those those are the things that you should be
investing in for repair work right now
diagnostics um
different it dude
in today's world okay
so everybody listening to this
if you have a hundred
dollars that you can spend
on a tool go buy
a top scan and you even have to buy
it for me this isn't a sales pitch but I can
sell them to you if you want but it's
a hundred dollars
and this thing will do just
about everything that a
full-fledged freakin
you know flagship
top-down scan tool do with your phone
um like your
ability to do stuff
scan tool wise you have so
many more options yes there's going to be
a lot more things to deal with
there's a lot more problems out there
but you can get scan tool for cheap
just to get started easy stuff
there um and then you can go from there
so don't buy a big expensive
crazy thing right off the bat that's not
that doesn't make sense
I remember like my first scan tool
cost me five thousand dollars man
back in back in two thousand
it was a macro not even
I always went against the grain on
stuff so I actually bought a
basically um OTC
Genesis yeah it was a
macro determinator that was
that was a great tool back in the day
you could do GM programming with that tool
yeah and um
so I um
I have a different
approach man
alright yes I
believe you should have your own tools 100%
um
and I believe if you want to invest in yourself
you need to buy your own your own shit
but
starting out I just I
don't see it man I feel like
I feel like there's an order of
things and I may be
wrong but
I think you should
I think people should I mean I think
newcomers should focus on like
like what what are you
gonna do right like again
if you're if you're gonna work independent
and you want to get into scoping
but you're still trying to wrestle with
like um
learning how to be a tech
so which one is it right so I think
that's gonna be the the
I think it's more of a case by case
basis of what you're actually doing but if
you're gonna go work at an independent
shop as a sea level technician
um
I'd say just wait until you have
a little bit more experience to
like actually maneuver
and these are the type of questions you need to ask the
shop hey what kind of tools do you have
what kind of tooling do you have what
do I have access to
I'm so sorry yeah what do you
expect of me coming in to a wise
yeah yeah yeah I have that
that's I have that question for sure
because
I'm used to the school
um because at the school
I have my set of tools that I bring
and I can do 95
percent with what I have at this point
but it's nice to
always have this the school has
like if I don't have something
I can borrow it from there
uh and so
I know I'm
going into a shop's a different environment than that
they don't have a central tool check out
you know like I know some independent
shops who will refuse to have
their sea level guys buy tools
they buy them tools
they you can use they have cards
stuff that you're gonna need so again I'm
not preventing you from
or anybody right to not buy stuff
I'm just saying that
you know just as well as
as they're interviewing
you you need to interview them
oh for sure
right like that's a lot of people get hung up on
like oh what are they gonna think we know what do you think of them
like yeah are you happy
with the with their selection of tooling are you happy
with like um
how they operate with their belief systems
are like do they align with you
like that's
that's more critical than anything
the tooling
and again like
there has to be an ROI for tooling
on the owner standpoint but any
any shop worth their assault should
have a should
should have a scope and a
and a scan tool that you can that you
should have at your disposal that's kind of where I'm getting
a man like that's that's true
that's that's that's kind of where I'm like
like you're right John like $150
for a use scope is fine but like
you see my my thing is like
I work
mentally man anytime that I've gone cheap
to learn because it was
cheap I ended up I ended up getting frustrated
and not and not learning anything
like
like my scope and career started late because
I didn't know what a good scope was I just
bought hunks of crap that were cheap and I just always
thought I was too stupid to understand what I was doing
and I finally just said
screw this I'm buying a Pico because I had the opportunity
to buy one at a good price
I'm like hey I'm not dumb it's just I had
some crappy scan tools some crappy scopes
so that's kind of like
the use scope is good don't get me wrong that's a great scope
but like the grand scheme
of things like
I always feel like and I get this question
on offer e-prom stuff like oh what would you do
I'm like dude I spent
thousands of dollars on cheap Chinese
fucking tools
that I shouldn't have and if I
would have just been smarter about it I should have just bought
one good tool because when you're beginning
something you're also fighting the tool
right yeah this is there's a reason
why the tool is cheap
and so now it's like you're it's a variable
like is it you or is it the tool
yeah well I know exactly
or is it you know or is it
like something that that you're
your equipment right that that's another thing too
so it was very
unpopular because I've said this before plenty of times
I'm like dude if I like oh if you if
you can pick any of the cheapest tools to start
right now which one you pick none
buy a good one like if not
then just you know
fumble your way through it like everybody else but
you know I'm at a point in my life
where I value my time more than
then
then forging fire but ultimately
it's that's gonna be that's gonna be
up to everybody because I I've had
disagreements with other top guys they're like oh no I'm
glad I did it that way because
I learned a little bit more awesome
but for me where I stand no
I don't have it anymore I'm
way too busy
yeah it's yeah
it's too short anyway to be fighting your tool
to get done what you need to
get done for sure
I probably will I'm gonna push back
just a little bit on the things
so for one so I have a
you scope and it's actually Malcolm
who was on the podcast before it I
actually won it in his
class like it's like out of his
out of his own money he
put these like kind of like prize
packages to together and
so he did a raffle at the end where
it's like you got so many entries based on like if you
took the ASC the A8
exam the engine performance exam you
got this many entries into it and stuff and
that's what actually encouraged me to start taking the ASC
exams that was the first one I ever took the A8
was the first ASC I
did
and I did it because I did the math and I was like
okay so it costs this much to take the
exam and his prize packages
are worth this much and my odds are this much
winning so I figured I would come
out okay anyway and I did so it worked out
really well all the way around because it started
getting me to take the ASC exams
but so
I would say because I've had other people
recommend like the you scope
as
like a first scope and I've people have asked
me a lot of times when I have mine when I'm
using it about it I would say
I would absolutely and this is my personal
opinion of course I would absolutely not
recommend the you scope
as your first scope
because
I think there is a thought that
because it's kind of small and
simple that that makes it
simpler to use and easier
and I think it's just
the exact opposite compared
to like Pico especially Pico 7
like when you go to Pico 7 it's like oh if I
want to change my set I just click here and here to do all this
where it's like on the you scope
you have to know where to go to
get to whatever it is that you're trying
to change and stuff it's just and obviously
it's not like you can zoom in
you know where it's like you can have your capture
and just take a zoom in on it like you can
Pico and I think that the barrier
to Pico for most people obviously the expense
because that like any of your four channel
Pico's are expensive
but what I found
after the what I found
sort of more recently is I use
a 2204a at this
point which is a
two channel Pico that you can get for
it's like 150 bucks
and because the power in Pico
really is I mean they make good scopes too
but it's the software and that's where
I think that when you're
fighting cheaper scopes and stuff
you're really fighting cheaper software
that that's not as well designed
and laid out as that and Pico
is kind of the standard at this point like
when you see people doing demonstrations a lot of times
they're using Pico
for that reason because
what comes with it but you can
I've found that you can pretty much do
almost everything with the 2204a
that is the basic level
stuff that you would be wanting to do anyway
you know like relative compression
just capturing you know voltages
whatever it is like I've got that
I have a Hantec amp clamp
that was like $65 that works
just fine for for capturing
amperage on waveforms and stuff and so
I think I've probably got
$250
total into the scope plus
my leads
and I'm able to
do 95%
of what I would like to do obviously you're limited
to two channels as opposed to four
but
I think it makes the learning curve a lot
better
compared to like using a user scope because
it's just easier to
have a full-size screen to click on
what you want to do because once you
kind of learn a little bit how to use the menu system
it is pretty straightforward but again
even Pico 7 is to me
easier for somebody new
than Pico 6 was
and that would be my
and I understand a lot of people because
I hate Pico 7 man
I hate that thing
my laptops hate Pico 7
all of my laptops hate Pico 7
if I run a math channel
it freaking just
slows that computer down
it's so terrible man
it makes me want to throw it
across the room
but if you know how to use Pico 6
I've used Pico 6
as well
you can pretty much do all the same things
in Pico 6 for the most part
I think that you can do in Pico 7
the layout is a little bit
easier for somebody that's new
on Pico 7
there is a really big
learning piece
that you can gain from using Pico
so we would do that in the college
where we just run the demo software too
of like
time based here is voltage scale
and yeah you can learn
the ins and outs of the scope and what's happening
quite a bit more
and then you can use that to work
I don't know backwards or down to a
use scope and then changing those settings
makes a lot more sense
so I agree with you in that stance
but like Tommy was saying
if I'm a new tech
I would find it very difficult
to justify buying the big
full fledged Pico
that might be a great option
but as the shop
like hey do you have a scope that
I can use as Tommy was saying
it's like
if this is a place
you're shooting for that place where you can
grow and you can do diagnostics
and hopefully
they've already invested some money in it
they've got something that you can use
oh hey okay I can see what a WPS
can do but I don't have to buy it myself
that would be
that would be ideal obviously harder to find
it's not it could be every shop
but questions ask
100%
I agree with that for sure
because I think that a good shop
should have a four channel scope
that's like a Pico to be
able to use to do
the diagnostics that you need to do
with it I just know
from having worked with other students
the problem
is that
obviously when we're learning scope stuff
one of the first questions that comes up
for students is okay how much does that cost
and it's like well a full
Pico kit
with the four channel scope and the leads
and everything like that is I don't know what like four grand
something like that
and I can see there
as soon as you say that
they just shut off they just stop because they're like
oh I can't afford this
it's hard to learn to use anyway
I couldn't afford it even if I did
learn how to use it so why am I even
expanding the brain energy on this
and so that's why I think it's important
for people to know that there are
starting out like
when you get to the point where you need that and want that
like it 100% will
pay for itself
and make sense to do so
and ideally like I said a shop that you're working at
should have something like that for you to use but
there are cheaper options
available to learn on that are really
again
powerful than a lot of people realize
they are
that I just I don't
want people like especially younger
people that are coming in just
not even trying to learn the scope
stuff because the cost
side of it just immediately makes them
shut off if that makes sense
yeah
don't go all by a full on
Pico set if you're
brand new tech that
do what I do man
looking for stuff used man
all my first J devices were used
so
you have any issues with that with any of like
the I mean obviously like hand
tools I'm not afraid to buy used but sort of
like if anything like a scan tool
or a scope for some reason a little bit
more reticent what are
scan tools are funny
because
you have to buy it at the right
price because typically
speaking you're going to buy it outdated
until then you have to update it
and then at that point it's like
was it worth it
so that's kind of was kind of tricky
especially how some of these Chinese tools
are just so cheap man better off just buying
you know a decent
mid grade one and
call it a day
but in terms of like J devices
I've been I've been fine
you know I've I've you know like
I've had tons of luck over the years
and then you know for a while like right now
I pulled a bunch of them when I
my guy quit because I'm like dude I don't
have time for a lot of mobile stuff anymore
so I'm going to condense my tooling
and um and yeah so
I got rid of a lot of stuff because I had like
man I had four VCM
threes
I have four MDI twos
I'm just like what the hell I need all this for
I'm like I
how many can you use at once
well I mean at one point I just
you know I pick them up on deals
yeah but yeah um no
I've never had like somebody sell me a bad tool
one of my one of my VCM
has had a bad USB port but I changed it
myself
but he told me I bought it cheap for that particular
reason so no I mean I
I don't you know I don't
I don't see anything wrong with it
but Sean I did want to ask you guys
sorry go ahead I didn't mean to interrupt
I was just saying I had pretty good luck with the you
stuff too and I mean you can
yeah you got to do your due diligence
there's some scam artists out there that's probably
the the bigger danger
if you're going to be buying stuff online
as people scam and yeah
not even sending you a tool yeah that or selling
knockoffs so yeah
yeah yeah Chinese phones
stuff yeah I
did want to ask you because you mentioned that the
top-down what at the top scan I think
it was it's like a hundred bucks
and I've when I've looked into that one
because I have a scanto it's not a top-down
um but
I think the when I
looked into that one the only issue with it
was so like yeah it's super powerful like it's
bi-directional and will do
a ton of stuff but I think
you only
you have to re-up it like
you have to do the
the yearly subscription or whatever
for it to maintain those
features right like it's not like
my understanding because I yeah I've
I've emailed top-down about it
and they were like yeah if you don't
continue to pay for the subscription whatever I
I don't know if it's $50 a year
$100 a year that
is like a hundred yeah that it will then revert
to where it's basically like the
generic tool like it won't do
any of the bi-directional stuff and stuff
which is yep yeah it was all functions
but I mean that's that's all
that's pretty much all of them man you can't
you can't unlike you can't unlock gateway
vehicles if your your subscriptions
not up to date
um auto for example um
you know the tool is half
useless like
you know if you have an ultra for example
it does a lot of like BMW coding
and Mercedes programming stuff like that
on board it doesn't work
or like Kia Hyundai
right it used to it would do
like a lot of stuff for Kia Hyundai
it doesn't work so at the
same point that the base tool is still there so it's
the same it's the same stuff man
we're going to a subscription based model
in every aspect of our lives
yeah I
I'm using I have a
it's AutoFix, OTO, FIX
yeah that's just a good tool
the D1 light yeah
it's Autel, you know it's what it is
it is an Autel, it's Autel's way of
it's the same VCI
yeah and so it's just orange
and it was nice because
yeah that's exactly what I have
and so but I paid
about like 250 for it
and it comes with two years
of update so it's good
you don't have to pay anything after those
two years and then
after the two years though
I think you it doesn't up like it's
not going to update to newer models and stuff
and it sounds like but I don't use it
for I just use it for
you know for a basic scan
tool to do some
you know to scan for codes do live data
stuff like that and so my
understanding is that after two years it'll
still do that
is it
they're not on like a gateway car
like any tool doesn't matter what it is
you have to have an active subscription
either to be able to use auto off
so like do you want to you know
and that's becoming a lot of cars now
and the thing of it is
is like if you're working on cars
like the scan tool should be one of
the easiest things that you're just
okay spending money with because it's going to
make you that money back so fast
like it's not even a thought now granted
I'm in a particular I got a bias
on what I do but like
if it's a tool that we need to diagnose the car
just okay just just buy it
spend the freaking money it's going to make us that
money back on one job
and then I'm done thinking about it you know
yeah I can see that I'm just
again coming from we're poor college
didn't if you know
but in two years
in two years you can
get somewhere and you can be making
a lot more money and you don't have to worry
so much about it so
I think looking at subscription
cost is worth it and weighing that
against other tools because there are a lot of
tools out there and what is it going to cost
me when I have to update
and I guess that's the way I would look at it
I'm going to have to update the tool eventually
if I want it to use it for XYZ
what does that look like
what does that cost me and there is
a difference between that right snap on
and topped on and I'll tell
they're all going to be different so look
into that before you drop the dough
on something yeah but like I said
when with what you guys do I know
it's like yeah wait whatever it costs is what
it costs because it's a different world
yeah it more than pays for itself for sure
yep
so yeah I
I've really been happy with
what I've gotten out of mind for the money
that I have into it
yep it's good little tool we got a couple of those
I like them
yeah and I think that the subscription
yearly subscription I think is 120
after it expires but I'm sort of like
I'll probably just buy another I would just buy
another new one at that point that's two years
and there's tools where that's a good argument
and it's like okay I guess
I could update this otherwise you know
they're so cheap some of these tools just
get the newest version yeah I think I'm gonna
how do you even give this one or I don't
know but yeah my new
guy I want to give him a tool
um because I have
a an ultra
and I have a d1
max and then I got
this light here at the house I use this for like
calming to modules on the bench
just like just a I don't really
have any particular use for it so
I don't know
we'll see
we uh we call them
the top scam we call them baby dons and
I gave everybody
there's a baby don his baby don
I mean
and I don't even know how to
I did want to ask you about something
because I know you had done some recent
um episodes
on using like AI
and in your business
and so I've kind of
explored with trying to use it as a student
as a learning tool and had some
uh I guess mixed
success is what I'll call it on that
uh and so
I am curious sometimes like how much of that
is me and the way that I'm interacting with it need to
change the way that I'm interacting with it but I actually
had a use case recently that I was like
oh I wonder if it'll do this because if it'll do this
this would be really helpful
have you used it for
because the one of the things I need
to for sure get better at
is and I know you mentioned it even just
earlier on this podcast about
having a way to like
save information from a job
that you do so that when you work on another
similar car you can
be like oh this is I saw this same
thing before and this is kind of what
I was like so are you using it to help
organize that at all and if so how
like what is your organization system in general
um so that storage
for everything is Google Drive
that's where I started and
um
I uh that's where we've been
putting stuff long before I was using
that but now the way I'm integrating
AI is so that
I have a
project set up to tell it
exactly what I want like I want this output
like don't give me any BS
I'm just having you reformat what I'm saying
in a usable manner
that is structured and grammatically correct
and then I take
that and I put it but I just do the talk
the text so I'll be at the
car I'll be driving away from the car
whatever I open up the project
say I got a
2000 and
13 whatever
here's the problem here's the details
that I noticed and I will give it specific
things that I'm like hey if I knew
that
going into this I would have gotten that
car diagnosed much quicker
right or this was an obstacle that
I hit as a technician
that if I knew that it was an obstacle
then it would have made my life
a lot easier and and my mindset
now is really employees employees
employees like they run into
this I want them to get through it
faster and with less problem
so I'm I'm giving it those details
and it has specific instructions
to like put those into a
searchable format and so then
it reformats it it doesn't
add any BS I told it don't put
any fluff in there don't add anything
just reformat it I just wanted
in a nice easy to read structured format
copy paste
into my drive
but then the other
thing that I did in this took an incredible
amount of work mainly because I'm
kind of slow so
it it it was
really tough for me to get this figured out but
I got chat
GPT to natively
integrate with our Google
Drive so now my employees
can just ask it hey can you
pull from the drive anything about
2
dd 6 in a mini Cooper and
we have any info and it goes
finds it the drive pulls it up gives you
the link to where it is in the drive so
that's that's the organizational format
that we're using right now with that and
it's it's growing it's like
it's like small right
now but we're it's getting better and better all the
time the more we add to it the more we
figure out how to use it and that's
I maybe we can circle back to what you
were saying is like is it the way I'm using it
this is just another tool that you
got to learn how to use
it's not turnkey
in my opinion at least not right now
you have to figure out
the nuances and the ins and outs of it and
where it can be useful and where it's gonna
lead you astray and be full of shit because
it is sometimes and you gotta
be careful
but there's
some really powerful
potential behind it but you gotta
you gotta put the work in and figure it out
it's still just another thing that you gotta put work
into if you want to get the most out of
yeah that's
it sounds like you're using it in a way that
as I just realized
just recently I was like oh man if I can do this
it'll be helpful because what I've run into sometimes
and I think this is a new tech
thing and I don't know if it changes
as you get more experience whatever but
I there's a lot of times where I'm going
through something and I want to be
like if there was somebody there I want to
be able to tell hey remind me to do
this before I'm done you know like at
the end of the job like it I've even little
things like remind me I need to put this
client back on and not leave it
loose things like that
and I've learned that yeah chat
gbt because I've tested it before
to try and look at like torque specs on
something large I haven't even with surface info
having a little difficult time finding torque specs
on something and so I was like well let's
test it out let's check it out and it was very wrong
you know it was the sort of like you do that
you're gonna break something and so but I
like the idea of like
no you only only take
what I'm telling you like don't go looking
for other information somewhere else like
only what I tell you is the only info
that you have because it'd be really nice to
even I would like to find a way where you
can interact with it pretty quickly
like through your phone like almost like
where you would do the thing like oh my phone
doesn't do I don't know if it set up for that
not where you say like hey Siri and then
it you know hopefully that messes me up and it
then it will listen to you because
there are so many times where I'd be like
oh the firing order is something and I could
have another service info tell it and even
when I'm looking at torque specs on
something that I know I'm not using right now
but I'm going through I'm gonna need it
so I can just tell it that and then
somebody's probably already
working on this if they're not they
can send me a check once they hear
this idea and I said this
years ago that
an all data or an identification
needs to get it integrated
and functional
so that you have a large
model tied in with the service information
so you have that option you log in all data
that you can just pull up
the chat bot and it's gonna have
it's gonna if I figured it out
just some dumb mechanic
that I can link it to my google drive
and it has immediate
access to all of our information I'm sure
they can do it with all data or
identification they probably are
but that's gonna be
that's gonna be what you're talking about and I
gotta imagine it'll eventually be out if it's not already
and
now again the accuracy of it is gonna be
very important and maybe that's the reason
it isn't out today
but once they figure that out
that that be huge
you just say hey yeah what's the
what's the firing order on this thing
okay yeah you can search something like that
in identifix or whatever
but there's there's stuff that's tough to find
right there's stuff that is
difficult to
to find I don't know
there is a value in finding yourself though
too I found that it's like knowing
how to actually get to it but sometimes I just
give up and go to the search bar too so
yeah I was trained like my
instructors like both king and
and Malcolm
trained us initially partially because we do the
skills USA competition
and they're sometimes
in the past at the skills USA competition
they don't let you use the search
like to look up service information
but
what I learned from the get go
to how to use the menu
system to try and get where you were and I
will say it's definitely helpful to do
that because a lot of times
you know you don't know what it's called
in the whatever this manufacturer is calling
whatever you look for and I've seen people
dick around for too long
search to not find what they're looking for
was like if you just went here here and here
like through the new how to use the menu system
so I think there's definitely value in both
to being able to
sometimes yes if I can't find it through that I was like well let me just search
and see if it'll find what I need
but I'm like you I don't really
my experience with GBT
is even if it had access to like all data
at this point I don't necessarily
trust it to
always pull the correct information
and you shouldn't and that's
dangerous to take something like this
and put 100%
confidence in it it's
in my opinion
if you know somebody's interested in it right now
experiment with it use it alongside
you know when is it successful
when does it blow smoke up my ass
on stuff and check it
like double check it against stuff
but I can say
you know just trying to build
a little tiny thing that I have
it's definitely
sped up productivity in a number of areas
and you find something like again
I didn't think the reformatting
of voice to
text would be such a
powerful thing that AI could do
for me but dude it's a killer
we do it for invoices too
that I'll go to bat against
anybody on that that is
so much more efficient
than me typing stuff out and it's
better it's faster it's
way better like
no question I pay the $20
a month alone just
for that and we got that
dialed we made the project with the specific
instructions like we get
beautiful in voice descriptions
for stuff that in my opinion
adds a lot of value but also covers our
ass because we can just give it all the detail
and then we come back and be like yeah
we said there was a vibration on
the test drive of this one after
we calibrated the
around a view like
that's there you can include all that stuff
it's not any extra work
so anyways there's uses
you just got to find them
I'm going to try that
everything I run to a lot of times I just
if I had a person there
that I could just be like talking to
like okay I'm looking at
you know wiring diagram and the wire
I once you know yellow with the red stripe
for this and blah blah blah and then
in a minute or two when I'm
under you know crawled up under the
dash and I don't have it right
in front of me if I could just be like hey what
was that wire color for such and such
you know like if it can do that
to me that is for me would be
helpful
so I'm going to try that now
you've convinced me to give it
a shot and see if it can do that because
I'm I'm bad about like
I tell people to remind me
to do this remind me to do that because
I will I get busy and then
forgetting there's things that are
obviously really important not to
forget you're putting cars
I have a list so that I
don't forget stuff because I have a
million things to remember and I won't
remember all of them so
that's when yeah
that I can I can see that being really
good use case for
it so I'm excited to see if I can get it
to to work for me because
that would be great I will say
use use the projects
if you're using chat gpt I'm sure it's similar
with other but utilize the projects
and give it specific
instructions for what you want it to do
that is so
it's just focusing it in it's this
it's this giant engine there's
so much potential and if you're just
asking it like just random questions
and it's pulling stuff from the internet
in whatever format it chooses
it's it's not at its full
potential you're you're taking that
magnifying glass to the sun
and burn in that ant right like
you're focusing it in on a specific
task with very specific guidelines
and you got to flesh that out
and figure out what you want
it to do and how to tell it to do
what you want it to do but man once you get
that dialed on a particular thing
I think it amplifies it quite a bit
yeah I can see it because it's
it's honestly
my experience I was I would not say that it's
smart because for one it
doesn't ever ask you
questions on yeah
internet yeah that's like
I always have to say if lots of people are wrong
about something on the internet it's going to be wrong
and I've seen that and some of the
things that I've asked it like automotive
wise and it's like you get it wrong
because you're read lots of people get it wrong
and how do you know any better you don't
because you're not actually smart you know
so so you're
right it's not in a lot
of cases you're like well this is this is a ridiculous
answer this is way off base it's giving me
you know BS but
here's something if you're again
if you're working with the projects you're
you're giving the instructions what to do or not to do
it's going to remember what you tell
it and it's going to do those
things which
there's a lot of people
myself included that probably are not
you can't say that about right
you're going to tell me something 10 times and I'm
still going to screw it up you give it specific
instructions do this don't do this
it changes its behavior and it's
it's going to change
that out porter look at something differently or not
do this and again
that that's been really powerful
to build some stuff with it
but you got to play around with it and I'm not
saying everybody has to go do this and spend a
bunch of time on it I'm really interested
it interests me
and I've found some uses for it but
I think it's worthwhile
yeah and I think especially now
like it's
pretty cheap at this point
and I think they're at that I think
they're at that stage where they're trying to
like as most kind
of startups do where they're
trying to onboard as many people as they
can and draw you in with that
low initial price
and you know in the future it's going to get
more expensive and so but right
now it's maybe not a bad time it
cost wise versus what you can do with it
yeah but the other
version is like 200 a month
mm-hmm yes
I don't know anything about the different like what
you get necessarily for the different levels
I don't either
hey yeah there's
the enterprise one is you get you know more
processing power and
you can do the deep research is more
that I did the business version mainly
because it doesn't at least they say it
doesn't train on your data and
I guess I'm taking them at their word on
that I was
concerned about all the data that I was putting in
there I'm like okay well if this is getting
trained and you know Joe Schmo
acts asks about this problem that we
put a lot of work into I don't want that
you know having it in that database
again says they don't train
on your data I don't know yeah
you gotta test it you can put
something in there that it will definitely
see if it'll out you when you
put something in there
you guys go ask about a Jaguar
with a headlight stuck on
it comes back
I have a question for you like because
I run into this a lot with people that are
and I'm obviously one of them too that's
needed to diagnostics
is there ever
and I have my
thoughts on it that I've tried to share with other people
but like is there ever sort of like
an order that you
kind of go in or stick to
or is it completely dependent on
the vehicle
in the situation like how do you
make the determination of sort of
what the order is
yeah I mean
I have a process
and I generally follow the rules
I mean those obvious things like
you know get all the information
verify the concern
that sort of stuff I'm going to follow
in an order but
beyond that
I think
just personally I'm at the
point in my career where I just take every car
as what it is and I just let
the process happen
like I feel like I know like
okay I need to check spark
on this car or I need to check
the timing data
on this you know this situation
and there's a lot of
feel to it but
that is I think only just because
you're putting in the reps and doing it over
and over and over and over again
but starting out I think a process is pretty important
to
stick to that until you really
build that sense of like oh okay
I can skip ahead to this because I have
a feeling this is where this is going right
but you don't have that at the beginning
so process very important
do you have a process
that you could share for
somebody new
yeah I mean
exactly they said
you're getting all the information on that
particular car like why is it there
it's there for a reason like you said
people don't go into the dentist to get their teeth drilled
like for fun
right they have the car there because
they want you to fix something something's wrong
it's not doing what it's supposed to outside of
regular maintenance so know what that is
and that sounds really obvious but it's not
always obvious we go to
shops and we're like why do the customer bring the car
here we don't know
what do you want me to do
yeah um and
um okay
so then yeah you verify the concern
you're doing a full scan on everything
yeah right if you're doing a diagnostic
I don't care if cars you shop do a freaking full scan
on it get all the codes
you're doing a visual inspection of the system
I don't care what it is look at it
because
one out of three problems you'll find
by looking at the system that has
the problem or the thing that's not working
um it's just
crawl under there lift it up open the hood
you know get a flashlight whatever it takes
look at it
um you do your pinpoint testing
that'll you know start general
get down to your pinpoint testing
do the whole funnel thing
um and then if you can
you know simulate
there if you can bypass the component
you can simulate the repair you can make it
work right you can be the part
to be the switch be the relay whatever
okay verify that that fixes it
or at least find a
second way to confirm that the thing you think
it is is what it is right find another way
to test it and then if you can
verify the repair after the fact
and that's that's generally it
um that's that's pretty much it very general
steps but I'm gonna follow that through
through everything and
you know the stuff like the visual inspection
the stuff about asking the information
the information is so huge
if you can ask the right questions you can get that
out of there man like
it's it it really
will I'll say it save you a lot
of time but it will burn
up a lot of time if you don't do that
like just make that part of your
process to like and
it sucks as a tech because you don't get always
get talk to the customers yeah yeah
you know find a way to talk to the customer
or train your server strategy so you know
the whole thing we've been through it too
like there's a medium
for you know between my
guy who answers the phone and the shop and me
and I have these questions and like oh why didn't
you ask this you know
okay well then I gotta train him on that
every one of these you gotta
ask is it a use module if we're
doing a blind spot monitor calibration
was there damage did they check the
angle of the sensor before they put the bumper
back on because they never do
anytime somebody wants you to do a blind spot
calibration and it goes fine it wasn't
bent at all it's just a little tap on the bumper
no the things
in here but I know there's a technician
so I know to ask that the guy
on the phone might not so yeah yeah
that's that's the sort of stuff that
if you're not the person dealing directly
with them find a way to train
them to build a script whatever you gotta
do because it's gonna just that's
such a big time suck when you don't
have the information it only
miss fires on you know cold
starts right but they don't
tell you that you just you gotta lie down
with the 300 okay
well if you don't know what you're doing
how much time you're gonna waste on that
freaking car so yeah
yeah that makes a lot of sense
I think
I think when you get to a certain
point like you said it's
you
you have to have enough experience
with different models
of vehicles but I can't skip that stuff
you know that like getting the information
I'll still get burned if I'm
if I'm just walking into a blind
or if I don't do my visual inspection
if I'm it's cold out and I'm too lazy
to get out and look underneath there
I've been there
I'm like oh it's just a open wire
I can see the freaking thing hanging there
like yeah
yeah build build your process and then
work to like you know not not
skip the steps yeah I think that's
not skipping the steps
is especially starting out
important because I think as
King likes that I mentioned him a few times
he kind of draws it as like
there's which way do you go
well you can't tell which way
is a lot of you know do you check fuel
first versus spark first whatever well
it's it's easy to say
after the fact oh if I had gone this
way I could have gotten here faster but he's like
what's important is when you pick a direction
keep working it and don't then have
to re go back over steps that you
already did because
you didn't do it thoroughly or you did it
in a way where you're having you're re checking
something a different way that if you had done it this way
to begin with you wouldn't have to he's like the good thing is like
you need a logical like you're
continually moving forward
to process and then yeah it's
not a lot of times it's not
obvious which way would have been the faster way
until you get to the end
but what's important is not
being wasteful with your time by having
to redo stuff in a way that you should
have already picked up the information for
that you've skipped over and now you have
a giant hole that you're like a lot and I
have to fill this hole in information that I
left because I skipped over
what I should have been doing
so yeah it'll always happen to a certain
extent you'll get there be like man
why didn't I do it this way or how did I
miss that oh I swear to God
I tested that and it was blank
I would say it's not for me
that's like every every car I work
on at this point there is
a is
I have learned to lean
into failure like it is
constant failure and it's
been really good for me because you learn
to just get over it and not be
like a lot of times I'll be like oh
I bet it's I would think it's this this and
this but I'm probably wrong
and if I'm wrong that's good because I'm gonna learn something
but
I am not afraid to
fail at this point like I have to
lean into it because you're gonna fail
so much like I feel like I fail
you're in the right industry then
oh my god like I just
can't imagine that there's another
I'm sure that there is I'm sure lots of people
feel this way about the their chosen profession
but we talked about this before
like just humbled on
a regular basis
and especially when you're new
you know like there is so much
you don't know and there's so many things where
like you learn you feel like
everything is learned the hard way
when you're starting out and it's almost like I wonder
it's like is it this way for everybody and I think
yeah it probably is that way for
everybody and at a certain point
it depends on
how far you take it
you can get to a point where you just cruise
and you just say no to stuff that's challenging
and that that's fine for some people
but
if you
I don't know if you want to keep going with it
and keep getting better than yeah
they're they're gonna freaking humble you every day
yeah and so what it's been
like I said it's been good for me overall
because I've really developed a lot of confidence
which seems sort of counterintuitive that
through failure I've gained confidence but I really
have because I'm like
I don't it doesn't
I'm like okay I feel this way now
I'm gonna go home and sleep on it and I'll get up tomorrow and I'll hit it again
you know and I'll
if I have to watch a video online
I was like if I have to watch five videos online
if I have to dig through service information
what did I miss
so that I can be better at this the next time
like it takes a lot of effort
and work but I
at least have confidence that I'll
do that
I'm not gonna let it beat me
I don't feel
I don't know how you survive any other way
because it does it is
it's pretty constant at this point
and I just have to take it it's like alright let's
let's go this none this is a new
this is another one that's gonna kick my butt let's go
you know
yep
well cool guys
in almost two hours
yeah sorry I didn't chat it on so much
it's all good
good
I'm always good to
I was happy to talk to somebody who's excited about it
because there's lots of reasons to not be
because they're new
give me a little see where I'm at in a couple of years
right like how I feel
we should do it
I am very curious
myself what it's gonna feel like because like I said
they're they're a day like we were just talking about
there are days where I'm like oh man I feel I'm getting good at this
and then the next I'm like oh my god
like I am the worst at this
you know
that won't stop and that's why I'm curious
how I'll hold up over a few years
with it
but we'll see I'm curious
myself to see how it ends up
all right
that is gonna do it for today's episode
thank you Matt
for spending some time with us this evening
definitely appreciated it
and like thank everybody else out there
for listening to the show
all the feedback like mentioned during the episode
the reason I keep doing this
is because
you know continue to get positive feedback
and I hear from people listening that
you know how it's benefiting them
or if they're getting something out of the show
so as long as that's the case
we'll keep rolling with this so
thank you again and with all that out of the way
let's get out there start fixing the world
one card at a time
About this episode
Matthew Elder, a recent automotive tech school graduate from Texas, joins hosts Sean and Tommy to discuss starting a career in automotive diagnostics. They explore the challenges of entering the industry, the importance of shop culture, and the pros and cons of flat rate vs hourly pay. The conversation covers tool recommendations, including scopes and scan tools, and the value of investing in quality equipment. They also dive into how AI tools like ChatGPT can assist with diagnostics and job documentation. The episode offers practical advice for new techs on diagnostics processes, learning strategies, and navigating the evolving automotive repair landscape.
Matthew Elder joins Tomi and I on the show this week. Matthew is a technician out of Texas, He is just beginning his path in the automotive diagnostic world. We'll share advice for being successful, Tooling options, & finding a good shop.