Exploring the intricacies of module programming, this episode delves into the essential questions automotive technicians face when replacing control modules. Host Sean Tipping discusses whether a module requires programming, how to determine this through service information, and the challenges of using used modules. He shares valuable tips on navigating diagnostic resources and highlights the importance of understanding the programming procedures for various manufacturers, particularly GM, Ford, Chrysler, and Nissan. This episode is packed with practical advice for improving diagnostic skills and efficiency in the shop.
Do I need do program this control module if I replace it? Can I program a used one? 2 questions we get everyday doing mobile programming. Today on the show I'll share with you some tips and tricks to efficiently finding out if the module in questions needs programming or other steps. I'll also discuss used module programming as well.
"...education on module programming, J2534, eProm work, key and immobilizer..."
eProm work is when mechanics change or fix the memory chip in a car's computer. This can help with things like programming new keys for the car.
eProm work involves programming or reprogramming the EEPROM (Electrically Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory) in a vehicle's ECU. This is often necessary for tasks like key programming or restoring lost data.
"...education on module programming, J2534, eProm work, key and immobilizer..."
J2534 is a set of rules that lets you connect special tools to a car's computer to update or fix it. It helps mechanics work on different car brands more easily.
J2534 is a standard developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) that allows for the reprogramming of vehicle ECUs using a standardized interface. It enables aftermarket tools to communicate with a vehicle's systems for diagnostics and updates.
"...education on module programming, J2534, eProm work, key and immobilizer..."
Key and immobilizer systems are what keep your car safe from being stolen. They make sure that only the right key can start the engine.
Key and immobilizer systems are security features in modern vehicles that prevent unauthorized access and starting of the engine. They often require specialized programming to ensure that only the correct key can start the vehicle.
"...education on module programming, J2534, eProm work, key and immobilizer, electrical diagnostics, or drivability diagnostics..."
Drivability diagnostics is when mechanics figure out why a car isn't driving well. They check different parts to see what's causing problems like poor acceleration or steering issues.
Drivability diagnostics refers to the process of diagnosing issues that affect a vehicle's performance and handling. This can include problems with acceleration, braking, or steering, and often requires a thorough examination of various systems.
"...education on module programming, J2534, eProm work, key and immobilizer, electrical diagnostics..."
Electrical diagnostics is when mechanics check the electrical parts of a car to find out if something is wrong. They use special tools to help them do this.
Electrical diagnostics is the process of identifying and troubleshooting electrical issues in a vehicle. This can involve using specialized tools to test circuits, sensors, and other electrical components.
"...education on module programming, J2534, eProm work, key and immobilizer, electrical diagnostics..."
Module programming is when you change or update the software in a car's computer systems. This helps the car work better or adds new features.
Module programming refers to the process of configuring or updating the software in a vehicle's electronic control units (ECUs). This is crucial for ensuring that the vehicle's systems function correctly and can include tasks like adding new features or fixing bugs.
"...we do get questions about whether or not a module can be programmed to a car, or the more basic question that we get funneled into our business is does this module need programming at all, right? So we're replacing a control module on a car, and obviously we do the programming."
A control module is like a computer in your car that helps it run properly. Sometimes, when you change this part, it needs to be set up or programmed to work with the rest of the car.
A control module is an electronic component in a vehicle that manages various functions, such as engine performance, transmission, and safety systems. These modules often require programming to ensure they communicate correctly with the vehicle's systems after being replaced or upgraded.
"...it's this year, forward fusion, replacing the body control module. Can we do used, if we're doing do, what do we need, what tool, what laptop?"
The Ford Fusion is a type of car made by Ford. It's a sedan, which means it has four doors and is designed for comfort and practicality.
The Ford Fusion is a mid-size sedan that was produced by Ford from 2006 to 2020. It is known for its comfortable ride, spacious interior, and a variety of engine options, including hybrid models.
"...to be able to get the coding or the as-built data out of the original module can save you time. Now, sometimes you can just pull it off the server and you're good..."
As-built data is like the factory settings for a car's electronic parts. It's important to know this information when fixing or replacing those parts to make sure everything works properly.
As-built data refers to the original configuration and settings of a vehicle's electronic modules as they were when the vehicle was manufactured. This data is crucial for correctly programming or replacing components like ABS modules or instrument clusters.
"...there have been a ton of examples that we've experienced with ABS modules in instrument clusters on the 2010-ish range Ford vehicles. Where the as-built data on the server is wrong..."
The ABS module is a part of the car that helps the brakes work better, especially when you need to stop quickly. It makes sure the wheels don't lock up and skid.
The ABS module is a crucial component of a vehicle's anti-lock braking system, which helps prevent the wheels from locking up during braking. This module controls the brake pressure to ensure safe stopping under various conditions.
"...e that problem too. We had, I think it was a 2019 ranger. We've had Ford transit issues where the data on ..."
The Ford Ranger is a type of truck that is good for carrying things and can be used for work or fun activities. It's known for being strong and having different options for how it runs, which makes it a favorite for many people who need a truck.
The Ford Ranger is a mid-size pickup truck known for its versatility and capability, making it popular among both work and recreational users. It features a robust design, advanced technology, and a range of engine options, which contribute to its appeal in the competitive truck market. Discussions about the Ranger often revolve around its performance, reliability, and features compared to other trucks.
"We had, I think it was a 2019 ranger. We've had Ford transit issues where the data on the server is wrong. And..."
The Ford Transit Custom is a large van that businesses often use to carry tools, equipment, or goods. It's designed to be easy to drive and has a lot of room inside, making it very useful for work.
The Ford Transit Custom is a versatile van designed primarily for commercial use, offering ample cargo space and a comfortable driving experience. It is often used by businesses for transporting goods or as a mobile workspace, and it features advanced technology and safety options. The Transit Custom is significant for its practicality and efficiency in urban environments.
"...We just had a Jeep Cherokee, I think it was a Trailhawk where somebody put a rack in it. And we were pretty sure that it did need programming..."
The Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk is a special version of the Jeep Cherokee that is built for off-road driving. It has features that help it handle rough terrain better than regular models.
The Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk is a variant of the Cherokee designed for off-road capabilities, featuring enhanced suspension and rugged styling. It's popular among those who seek adventure while still needing a practical daily driver.
Stellantis is a big car company that owns many brands, including Chrysler and others, created from a merger of two companies.
Stellantis is a multinational automotive manufacturing corporation formed from the merger of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and PSA Group, encompassing several well-known car brands.
"Okay, and then also Nissan. And the reason I'm doing the big three in Nissan is those are our most commonly requested modules..."
Nissan is a car company from Japan that makes many types of vehicles, including electric cars.
Nissan is a major Japanese automotive manufacturer known for producing a wide range of vehicles, including sedans, SUVs, and electric cars like the Nissan Leaf.
"...let's say it's a 2016 Chevy Colorado, all right? And you could obviously just go to the module,..."
The Chevy Colorado is a type of truck made by Chevrolet. It's smaller than full-size trucks but still great for carrying things and driving around town.
The Chevy Colorado is a midsize pickup truck manufactured by Chevrolet, known for its versatility and capability. It offers a range of engines and configurations, making it suitable for both work and everyday use.
"but I have existing keys and PCM or I'm replacing the RF Hub and the keys at the same time"
The PCM is like the brain of the car that helps manage how the engine and transmission work together. It makes sure everything runs smoothly and efficiently.
PCM stands for Powertrain Control Module, which is the computer that controls the engine and transmission functions in a vehicle. It processes data from various sensors to optimize performance and efficiency.
"or I'm replacing the RF Hub and the keys at the same time but the BCM and the PCM are staying on the vehicle, right?"
The RF Hub is a part of the car that helps it communicate with your key fob, allowing you to unlock and start the car without using a physical key. It's important for security and ease of use.
RF Hub refers to the Radio Frequency Hub, which manages communication between the vehicle and key fobs or remote entry systems. It plays a crucial role in vehicle security and convenience features.
"but the BCM and the PCM are staying on the vehicle, right? So all the different combinations"
The BCM is like a control center for the car's electrical systems, managing things like lights and locks. It helps keep everything working together smoothly.
BCM stands for Body Control Module, which is responsible for controlling various electronic accessories in a vehicle, such as lights, windows, and security systems. It communicates with the PCM and other modules to ensure proper operation.
"So again, that's programming order guide if you're looking at a Stellantis vehicle and replacing anything specifically"
The programming order guide is like a recipe that tells you the steps to follow when setting up or replacing parts in the car. It helps make sure everything works together correctly.
A programming order guide is a reference document that outlines the specific steps and order in which electronic modules should be programmed or replaced in a vehicle. Following this guide ensures proper functionality and communication between components.
"...if you search additional service and then the acronym of the module you're replacing, so you know, ECM, BCM, TCM,..."
The ECM is like the car's brain for the engine. It helps the engine run smoothly by controlling things like fuel injection and ignition timing.
ECM stands for Engine Control Module, which is a crucial component in modern vehicles that manages engine performance and efficiency by controlling various engine functions.
"...you don't have to search the vehicle options and enter them manually like tire size and axle ratio and all that stuff,..."
Axle ratio is a number that shows how many times the driveshaft turns for each turn of the wheels. It can change how fast a car accelerates and how much fuel it uses.
Axle ratio refers to the ratio of the number of rotations of the driveshaft to the number of rotations of the wheels. It affects acceleration, towing capacity, and fuel efficiency.
"...but also the solenoid strategy is stored in powertrain control modules on Fords...."
Solenoid strategy is how a car's computer controls small devices called solenoids that help manage things like the transmission. It helps the car shift gears smoothly.
Solenoid strategy refers to the method used by the vehicle's control system to manage the operation of solenoids, which are electromechanical devices that control fluid flow in automatic transmissions and other systems.
"...I was just quoting out a radio for a Volkswagen Tiguan or Touareg or something like that."
The Volkswagen Touareg is a larger SUV that offers luxury features and is good for both city driving and off-road adventures. It has a comfortable interior and many tech options.
The Volkswagen Touareg is a mid-size luxury SUV that combines off-road capability with premium features. It's known for its spacious interior and advanced technology.
"...I was just quoting out a radio for a Volkswagen Tiguan or Touareg or something like that."
The Volkswagen Tiguan is a small SUV that many people use for everyday driving. It's known for being comfortable and having a lot of space inside.
The Volkswagen Tiguan is a compact SUV known for its practicality and comfort. It offers a range of engines and features, making it a popular choice among families and individuals alike.
Select text to request an explanation
Welcome to the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.
We're going to explore ways to sharpen our diagnostic skills, find learning resources, and hear from
experts in the automotive field.
This episode is brought to you by L1 Automotive Training and Keith Perkins.
If you're looking for education on module programming, J2534, eProm work, key and immobilizer,
electrical diagnostics, or drivability diagnostics, Keith has a website L1Training.com that's
got over 60 hours of training videos on all those subjects and more.
When I first started out doing mobile, I utilized Keith's videos on module programming in J2534
in order to get my head wrapped around what I would need for the tooling, the computers,
the software setups, what kind of obstacles I would be up against when I'm out there
programming modules on cars, and it was a huge benefit to me.
I continue to use the training videos that he has on his website.
I strongly recommend checking out L1Training.com.
The link is in the show notes.
Hey, what's going on, Automotive World?
Welcome to another episode of the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.
My name is Sean Tipping.
I'll be your host once again for this week's episode.
Thank you so much for joining me.
This week on the show, just me, and I'm going to talk about a question that we
get all the time running an ST mobile, doing the mobile thing.
I also get a few emails, messages about it, but the listening audience is pretty savvy
crowd.
I say for the most part, you guys are able to figure this stuff out.
There's not too much of an issue, but every once in a while and more on the second part
of this episode, I do get questions about whether or not a module can be programmed
to a car, or the more basic question that we get funneled into our business is does
this module need programming at all, right?
So we're replacing a control module on a car, and obviously we do the programming.
It's part of the service that we offer to our customers, and maybe you do it in your
shop as well.
And so when you're planning the replacement, you get two questions, okay?
Number one, doesn't need to be programmed at all.
And then of course, if it does, how do I program it?
But then in addition to that, and this is one of the more trickier questions that's
a little bit more open-ended is, can I use a used module, a second hand module,
a module from another car in place of the one that I'm taking out of the vehicle?
And then again, if we're doing that, what's required, how do I do it?
What do I need for that?
And that does become a lot more trickier, and that's probably where I
personally get more questions from the listeners of the show.
And sometimes we get a bunch of these from customers too.
Sometimes I'll say, hey, I've never tried that.
Maybe nobody's tried a used module in that particular scenario,
especially if it's something that's relatively new.
You might be the first one, or at least the first documented case of putting
a used module in a particular application.
So it does get a little bit trickier, but I'm gonna start out with the basics
here and how we handle it when we get calls in from somebody that says,
hey, I'm replacing control module X on X vehicle.
It's this year, it's this engine, this platform.
We're placing the module, first off, doesn't need programming.
And then more on our end, what are we gonna need to actually program it, right?
And I will say right off the bat, we've built up our own internal database,
both with detailed documents that are stored in our drive.
But then we also have a spreadsheet reference that we can just quickly go to
say, okay, it's this year, forward fusion, replacing the body control module.
Can we do used, if we're doing do, what do we need, what tool, what laptop?
And that's more specific to our exact application.
But I'm gonna go over more broad perspective here of, hey,
I'm replacing control module, how do I quickly find out if there's other things
that I need to do upon replacement.
And of course, we try to train our customers and it'd be nice if more of
them kind of thought ahead to, okay, I know that I'm going to be replacing this part,
right, I've condemned X part, I know that it needs to be replaced.
I should look up the procedure and see if anything extra needs to be done
before I even order the part so they can quote it correctly.
But a lot of the times what happens is shops will just install a module and
then they'll call us because, oh, it doesn't start, it's got codes,
it doesn't do what it's supposed to, and yeah, it does need programming.
Anyways, we get the call so we want to be able to quickly look at the information
that we have and figure out, okay, doesn't need to be programmed.
Can it be programmed, right, especially in a used scenario?
And then if so, what do we need in order to do it?
How are we going to do it?
So we'll cover that, first things first.
And again, the listeners of this show, you probably know this, so
we'll go through it relatively quickly.
But of course, the easiest way, I shouldn't even say the easiest way,
but the most consistent way across modules, across brands to find out
if a particular module needs any sort of programming or configuration
or extra steps after you've replaced it is to go into whatever service
information you're using, whether that be all data,
identifix, Mitchell, maybe factory information, and go to whatever module it is
and just look up the R&R procedure, right?
The remove and replace, the removal and installation procedure.
And sometimes it actually does pay to look at both, right?
Some service informations have the removal and the installation
split into two processes.
Sometimes it's one big long one, sometimes they're separate.
And occasionally at the beginning of the removal process,
it may tell you to hook up a scan tool and to pull data out of the existing one.
And there's a number of control modules across brands that will have you
take the data out of the existing module before you replace it with a new one.
And just a couple of quick examples on that where it's not
impossible to get the programming done without doing this.
But it becomes either more time consuming or more difficult if you
don't have the original plugged in first.
And Ford is the biggest example of that.
And number one, to be able to get the coding or
the as-built data out of the original module can save you time.
Now, sometimes you can just pull it off the server and you're good.
But there have been a ton of examples that we've experienced with ABS modules
in instrument clusters on the 2010-ish range Ford vehicles.
Where the as-built data on the server is wrong.
And so if you just go to do it with a new module plugged in,
it'll pull data from the server, but it won't work.
You need to get it off the old one or at least have access to a similar vehicle
to get that as-built data, which is the coding, essentially.
I said the older range, but now that I'm thinking about it,
new vehicles have that problem too.
We had, I think it was a 2019 ranger.
We've had Ford transit issues where the data on the server is wrong.
And you gotta go through a whole process to get that changed
if you don't have the original data.
But again, going to my point there is there may be a step
in the removal process that you may want to pay attention to
that has something to do with the programming.
But here's the other thing, it will clue you into,
oh, hey, this does have some sort of programming to it.
And then you can go to the bottom of the installation,
and usually somewhere in the last few steps
of the installation of the module,
it will tell you either what to do for programming
or give you a link to go to another place
to read up on the specific programming.
So that's just the all-around big blanket statement
of how do you find out if a module needs
to be programmed at all?
Take a look at service information,
look at the R&R procedure,
go to the bottom of the installation
and does it tell you to do anything programming-wise
or setup-wise or configuration-wise
and then you go and you read that process.
Now, I will say this is not 100% accurate
or it doesn't include every single module
in every single car.
We have run into examples out there
where if you go into the service information,
it does not say anything about programming,
but if you install it on the car
and you don't program it, you're going to have issues
that thing's not gonna work,
there's gonna be warning lights.
We just had a Jeep Cherokee, I think it was a Trailhawk
where somebody put a rack in it.
And we were pretty sure that it did need programming,
but we looked at the service information
and it doesn't say anything about programming
with the R&R procedure.
Well, the customer replaced the rack
and of course it did need programming.
So every once in a while,
you are gonna run into things in service information
where maybe it doesn't include everything you need.
European stuff is definitely that way
where they've pushed so much of the information
into their factory tooling
that if you're looking at an all-data or an Identifix,
you may not have much information at all
on what you're supposed to be doing
with the replacement of a module.
So there is some caveats to it,
but again, generally speaking,
that's the easiest way to find out
of do I need to do any sort of post setup
for this control module.
Now, the other thing I wanted to share here,
and this hopefully is a tip for you
that speeds things up
and gets you more accurate information quicker.
I'm gonna go over the big three
for domestic stuff in the US.
So GM Ford Chrysler or Stellantis
and I'll give you some shortcuts to search for
when you're using aftermarket service information
to find a chart of what needs to be programmed
on what module or if it needs to be programmed.
Okay, and then also Nissan.
And the reason I'm doing the big three in Nissan
is those are our most commonly requested modules
to be programmed.
And I was just looking at 2025 numbers
and it went GM Ford Chrysler or Nissan
in that order of modules that we program.
So obviously it's the most common one
that we're gonna be looking at up the most
and that might be the case for you too.
There are probably shortcuts for other makes and models.
I just didn't have those at the ready
but I'm gonna share with you
what I've got for those.
So what I'm saying here is if you go
into service information,
and this could be Identifix,
could be All Data,
probably Mitchell,
Modologic, I don't use those too
so I can't say for sure
but I know within All Data or Identifix
if you use these search terms
as soon as you go into the service info
and build the vehicle,
it will get you to a chart
that's gonna be very helpful.
So I'll give you the exact terms here
so you can write these down if you want to
so that you can remember them for each brand
but I'll start with GM.
So if you go into service information
and you build your vehicle,
whatever it is, your General Motors vehicle,
let's say it's a 2016 Chevy Colorado, all right?
And you could obviously just go to the module,
like I said, do the R&R process
and go to the bottom and see does have anything
or here's the other thing that you can do
for a quick reference.
And this is pretty much any GM
that has module programming.
I'm sure there's exceptions
but for the stuff that we're working on every day,
you know, 2008-ish to 2020,
that's our main range of vehicles,
this applies for all GMs.
If you type in control module references, okay?
So again, that's control module references
on a GM vehicle.
It is gonna bring you to a chart
that is going to show you the,
it's gonna give you the alphanumeric code
for the module.
So if you've ever looked at the programming software
or wiring diagrams for GM,
they assign control modules with an alphanumeric code, right?
So it'd be like A11 or K29 or K71.
There's lots of Ks that refer to modules.
T sometimes is used.
Anyways, it's an alphanumeric code.
It tells you what the module is, right?
You can click on the schematic
for that system or that component as well.
There's a repair instruction link
and then there is a programming and setup link on this chart.
So basically you just go down the chart
or you can control F, find your module
and in the chart that says programming and setup,
you can click on it and it will bring you right to
everything that needs to be done
for that control module when it is replaced.
And then you can also click on the schematics
and the repair procedure if you want, right?
It's just a quick reference for everything
that needs to be programmed on the vehicle.
I shouldn't say any control module is on the vehicle,
but anything that's going to require programming,
generally speaking, is on this list.
So again, that's control module references, search that
and it's just a quick setup
for module programming on General Motors.
Okay, so now Fords and I have found
this is about 2010-ish and UP will utilize this.
So it's not on some older stuff.
You may have to dig and find that manually, right?
And you can use the search function
within the service information
just to search your particular module
and you can probably find it.
But again, I like these charts
because it includes everything on the car
and it's just a nice quick easy reference.
And if you're just operating on,
you're going into the service information
over and over and over again,
it's nice just to be able to refer to one place
and say, okay, I know how this chart works.
I know what's going to be on here and here you go.
So for Ford, when you're in the search tab,
search module configuration, okay?
And this is going to bring you to a chart
that talks about the programming.
So if you read the first few,
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If you have paragraphs on it, it's good information
but it's about programming and how Ford works
and as build data and the vid block,
what is the adaptive learning?
But if you continue down on the page,
you'll find another chart,
much like the control module references for GM,
it's gonna break it down by module,
gives you the module address.
It says if it requires a PMI,
which is for its programmable module installation,
it tells you if it's reprogrammed capable.
Okay, so not all Ford modules can be updated
with new software, but some can.
This will give you a yes, no.
It will tell you if it requires any adaptive learning
or calibration, which would be after the PMI
and it tells you if there's anything you can change
in programmable parameters,
which is custom settings, customer preferences,
things like that and it breaks it down by module
and it is really helpful to get an overview
of all the modules on the car.
And then if you keep going down,
it'll give you some errors that you might come up with
in relationship to programming and what they mean.
Again, helpful stuff if those pop up,
usually thing that it tells you to do
is just says do a PMI for just to put all these errors,
but it does tell you like,
what does it mean when I have a VIN mismatch code?
And it'll tell you the modules that can set it
and tell you what you're supposed to do to fix it.
If it will or not, it's another question,
but that's on there.
The first chart is probably the most helpful,
but again, that's module configuration for Ford.
Moving on to Chrysler.
Now, I haven't found a chart exactly like the last two
that I talked about for Chrysler.
You kind of have to just go to the module
and look at the procedure to find what's necessary.
Like I mentioned that Jeep that I was referring to
didn't have anything about programming
or at least I missed it if it did.
But what Chrysler has is it's a different type of chart.
It has to do with modules that contain any sort of role
within the immobilizer system, right?
So this is RF Hub, BCM, PCM, the keys themselves,
anything that has something to do
with the immobilizer on the vehicle.
If you look up programming order guide,
that's the search term that you would use
is programming order guide.
It's gonna include all of the modules
that have something to do with the immobilizer system.
And it will tell you the order
in which you perform the steps after they're replaced.
And it gives you a chart of which module are you replacing
and which modules are still existing on the vehicle, right?
So it'll say like condition one,
you're replacing the RF Hub, but the body control,
the keys and the PCM are staying on the vehicle, okay?
Same thing for the BCM, same thing for the keys,
same thing for the PCM.
And for each one, it's gonna have you do different steps
depending on the module that's replacing.
But here's the other really helpful part.
And if you get into module programming
where multiple things are being replaced at one time,
which does happen, this chart will walk you through
what steps need to be done
if I'm replacing both the RF Hub and the BCM at the same time
but I have existing keys and PCM
or I'm replacing the RF Hub and the keys at the same time
but the BCM and the PCM are staying on the vehicle, right?
So all the different combinations
of what could happen are on here
and the steps in order that you're supposed to do
for these are all on this chart.
So again, that's programming order guide
if you're looking at a Stellantis vehicle
and replacing anything specifically
with the immobilizer system,
if it's just a control module,
you'll probably have to search that particular module
and see, okay.
Finally, Nissan.
Nissan doesn't have a chart either that I've found
but what Nissan has is if you search additional service
and then the acronym of the module you're replacing,
so you know, ECM, BCM, TCM,
additional service is gonna bring you to the steps
that need to be performed
after the module is physically replaced, all right.
Now, Nissan's another one where you need to pay attention
because there are certain applications,
certain modules where it really benefits you
to pull the configuration data off of the existing module
if possible before going into the new one.
So that is one thing where
the additional service usually starts after
if you've replaced it,
but you may wanna look at the whole process
to see if it requests you to pull configuration data
on the original, right.
And so for us doing mobile service,
that's important to know so that we can tell the shop,
hey, leave the original plugged in
or we need access to the original
in order to plug it in to do our process.
You know, going back to Ford,
like if you replace a PCM,
you want that information,
so number one, you don't have to search the vehicle options
and enter them manually like tire size
and axle ratio and all that stuff,
but also the solenoid strategy
is stored in powertrain control modules on Fords.
Now, can we get that off the tag on the transmission?
Hopefully, hopefully it's legible,
but if you don't grab it off the original,
then you have to type it in manually.
If you perform the PMI properly
where it inhales off of the existing module
and then exhales into the new one,
it'll transfer all of that and it'll save you time, right.
So if you're looking to increase your efficiency
in module programming as well,
these are the sort of things to pay attention to
where the inhale can be very beneficial.
Now there's times in certain situations,
maybe you don't want to do that.
If you're, you know,
you can get into a lot of different situations
as you program more and more,
but generally speaking,
it's very helpful to have the original plugged in first
on some of these vehicles.
Now, GMs, you don't really need to do that
as far as I'm aware.
Now, I still like having the original module,
but there's no like inhale function for GMs
that transfers over to the new module,
except for like, I'm sure there's oddball ones out there
that have to do with like key remote information
I'm thinking of and stuff like that,
but generally speaking,
general motors, you don't have to do that, okay?
So that's the general process that we're gonna use
to find out if module needs to be programmed at all, right?
Or is there something that we have to do?
And, you know, there's some modules
that don't need any programming.
They are just plug and play.
And quite often they're modules
that are less mission critical,
but as time goes on, more and more things
at least need some sort of scan tool function or setup
or calibration, even if it's not a, you know,
official programming of the module,
we're not changing the software,
maybe we're not even coding it,
but we're doing some sort of setup.
And in that case, okay, could the shop handle it?
Potentially it depends on their capabilities
and their tooling that they have,
but that's where we're gonna find this information
for anyone.
So that's the first step of this,
where this gets more tricky, more confusing,
there's more variables and nuances to consider
is if we're doing a used control module.
And again, this is more of the questions
that I get from some of the listeners and friends
and obviously the people that we're doing work for is,
hey, I'm gonna try to do a used control module
in this application, again, doesn't need programming.
And then if it does, can we do it?
And how do we do it?
And this is where documenting some of our processes
have been really helpful
because then we have a quick chart to say,
yes, we've attempted a used module in this application
and it does work, here's what you do.
Maybe it's no different than the programming
and setup for a new module, that's totally possible.
It might just go through with the factory software
and the factory process.
Maybe there's additional things that we have to do.
Maybe there's even less steps
than we would normally have to do.
If they're able to get a control module
for a particular vehicle
that already has the correct software for that setup,
now they have to match vehicle options
and all that stuff,
then we may not have to do a whole lot,
maybe a VIN change,
maybe just some sort of quick learn
or setup for that particular application,
but it really depends on the car
and how they have that network
and module configuration setup on that particular vehicle.
And there's tons and tons and tons of different setups
and modules and networks
and things that cars will allow to happen
with used modules or not, right?
So again, there's no chart
within factory service information,
at least not that I've found,
that is going to give you the,
hey, you can use the used module here,
a lot of times if you find anything
in the service information referencing this,
it's just going to say you have to do a new one.
A new is required.
And a lot of times you ask the dealer
that's going to be their stance as well.
Understandably so, if they're warrantying stuff,
they're going to want to put new stuff in
and maybe that's your attitude at your shop too,
is like, why would I put something used in there?
I have to warranty it.
I totally get that.
Where we come from a lot of times,
where we come from a lot of the time
is both availability and cost, right?
Now the cost piece of it kind of depends on the scenario,
but in some cases, the cost difference
between a used and a new is absolutely crazy.
I was just quoting out a radio
for a Volkswagen Tiguan or Touareg or something like that.
And the new radio for this thing,
and this car is 10 plus years old, was like $2,700, right?
The car is maybe worth that.
And you could get a used one for it's still $3,400.
It's not exactly a cheap radio,
but like that's the amount of money
that we're talking about sometimes
where used makes a lot more sense,
but then the question becomes, can we do that?
Is it possible to put a used control module
in this application?
And in that case, we can
as long as they get the right one.
And that's our biggest thing when we talk to people
about used control modules.
So I'm like, yes, we can do it or maybe we can't,
but like in this application, we know we can do this radio,
but you have to match the part numbers exactly.
And we tell people to match the part numbers exactly.
Here's the thing, just real talk about programming.
It doesn't always have to be exact.
You could have a different part number.
Maybe it's a super session.
Maybe there's just more than one hardware,
the application that will work in that particular case.
And it'll take the software and the car
and it'll work just fine.
But my problem is when I'm looking at this
from like, hey, what works and what doesn't,
I don't have a chart.
And I don't think there is a chart
of every wrong application that will work
in a particular vehicle, right?
So there's no chart out there that says,
yes, this is the wrong part number for this car,
but it'll still work.
That's just not a thing.
So we're rolling the dice.
If you're getting something that is not the same hardware,
we don't know if it will work or not.
And that's what we tell our customers too.
Now, you can use some websites
and cartashpart.com is actually really, really helpful here.
You can go on and I will say it's not 100%.
It's not, there's errors within there.
Like you get some stuff and it says it'll work.
It doesn't work.
But for the most part, it's actually pretty useful
to figure out if a particular module will work
in a specific application.
Again, not 100%, but it gets you pretty close
a lot of the time.
And I'd say their accuracy is pretty good.
Their database is pretty good.
I was talking to Neil, I don't know,
it's probably over a year ago I had him on the podcast,
but he owns a junkyard out in Boston.
And he was telling me about the system that they use
to develop, when you go into cartashpart.com
and you're building your vehicle options
and then it's having you select certain things
about the control module that this is a database
on like that side of things, that world of the automotive
where they've done their homework
and it's actually pretty good.
So I'll use that sometimes to help me figure out
as a control module from this particular vehicle.
Like right, maybe it's we're putting in a module in an O9
and it came out of an O8
and maybe it's a different part number.
I'm like, I don't know if it'll work,
but I will use a cartashpart sometimes
to help me figure that out.
Okay, now of course you can use your pair link shop
as well and you can figure out
what is the factory part number, the new part number.
And that can help you identify whether,
like a lot of times when we get to a car,
the parts already been replaced.
Maybe they don't even have the original anymore
because the car came to them that way.
And so now I have to try to figure out
like is this even the right part number at all
because I don't have the original in front of me.
That's where repair link will help out
and you can, if you're having issues programming
you can at least say, hey, this is not the right part.
I don't know if it's gonna work or not.
It doesn't seem to be, it may be a hardware issue.
Here's the correct part number.
You're gonna have to find one of those.
So obviously getting the right module is step one
and that can be harder than you think.
And again, some of these used part scenarios,
I mentioned the cost of it,
but some of its availability too.
It could be a little both, right?
There's certain modules that are just unobtainium.
You can't find them.
They don't make them new
and everybody's swooped up the used ones already
like O5-ish Cummins engine controllers.
Good luck.
There might be some used ones out there,
but there are multiple thousands of dollars to get them.
So there's certain applications where it is really tough.
We went through, it was older Mercedes
trying to do an all activity module
and they're out there,
but man finding one in good shape is almost impossible.
The dealer can't get them.
That was actually how we got involved with it.
This is the dealer couldn't get a new one.
We tried a couple of used ones.
They all ended up having the same problem
or the one that didn't have the problem
was the wrong part number.
So it was a hassle, right?
So anyways, sometimes we've gotta go the used route again
because you can't even get a new one.
And so, okay, you find the correct used module.
And again, the question is, can we make this happen?
Now, that's where I could talk for hours and hours
because there are so many different applications,
combinations and differences in the scenarios
and the programming equipment
and what's required to make something work.
And that's where we have kind of created
our own internal database on can we use
a used module in this application?
And we haven't tried everything, right?
Again, there's probably a million different combinations
of different things, probably more than that.
And luckily we can kind of batch things.
We can group things.
We can say this year, Ford, yeah,
you can pretty much do used anything or this year GM.
Okay, these control modules don't matter
but these control modules do.
We can do used in this case.
We can't do used in this case, right?
And so you can kind of come up with a feel
for a particular vehicle application
but even within that you can run into a scenario
where hey, a used module is just not gonna work
in this case for whatever reason, right?
Maybe it's the immobilizer portion of it.
Maybe it's the VIN or the programming portion of it
is not going to change.
And again, that can depend on
did you get the correct module or not?
But a lot of times what we run into is the VIN number
or the immobilizer portion not matching up with the vehicle.
So then it's can we do this with a factory tooling?
Do we have to do board work to make this happen?
And then if that's the case, is it even possible
to do it board work, right?
And you've heard me talk on the show a ton
about taking classes and learning about the module cloning
and all the aftermarket tools.
But it gets really tricky here because again,
there's no database.
I don't have an all data for like used module programming.
I'm gonna be doing some searching,
whether that be, you know, Google, YouTube,
Facebook groups, diag.net, utilizing, you know,
AI large language modules to help me search
all of those resources very quickly.
And of course, documenting
and referencing our internal database,
maybe reaching out to some friends too,
that's another option because maybe, you know,
so-and-so has done it and so he can tell you, yeah,
it works fine, you can do a used ABS in this Volvo,
it's no problem, Vita will program it
and you're good to go, right?
So where I'm going with that is,
is if you're getting into the module programming
side of things, you may have to say to a customer,
well, we don't know if we can do a used or not,
but we're going to try and see what happens.
And then once you do,
you can start building that database of like,
hey, this module works in this application,
this module doesn't work.
And then if you find a module
that doesn't work in a particular application,
is it because it just can't be done
or is it because, you know,
some more advanced techniques, procedures
or tooling is gonna be required to make it happen.
And then the next question is like,
is it worth it for what we're doing here, right?
Like how many requests am I getting
for this particular used module that I can't make work?
And what can I realistically charge for making it happen,
right?
And that's a worthwhile question to ask
because we've run into some scenarios
where there are no other options
and this car is going to the scrapyard
if we're not able to make this used module work.
We had a BCM and an old GM vehicle.
There are no new ones, you can't get them
but you can get a used one, right?
And the regular GM programming does not work
for used modules in these particular applications.
Board work turns out it's not exactly the easiest thing
to do for this particular module
but you can make it work
and then that vehicle is back on the road, right?
So then that becomes really worth it
to know how to do that.
Now, how many of those old GMs
are we gonna be getting calls on?
Hard to say, but I've got it well documented now
so the next time that that does come around
we can say, yes, we can do it
but we're charging a premium price for it
because I already know that there are some other,
there's a number of other people
that aren't able to do it.
This particular application is like,
yeah, we've tried a few other people
that weren't able to make this happen
and they were very happy to pay a premium price
for someone who could.
So that's kind of where you can find your advantage
in the marketplace maybe
is if there is something that has a demand
that there's not a whole lot of other options for
then you can invest the time, the effort,
the resources into learning, can I do this?
What's required?
How do I do it?
Okay, now I've got a service
that I can offer a premium for.
So that's kind of where we take a lot
of the used ones is we look at the vehicle,
we look at the options.
Is it just somebody that's trying
to spend as little money as possible?
Or is it somebody that has zero other options
or this car is going to the scrap yard
and so they're trying to make this option work
and those are the ones that I more gravitate to
like let's try and figure this out.
Let's be the service that can make this happen, right?
We don't always need to be the hero necessarily
in every situation.
Some of them are better to move on from
but I think it's worthwhile to investigate.
So anyways, that's gonna be where I wrap this up
for questions on module programming.
Hopefully that was helpful
and somewhat of a decent resource for you
if you're getting into this or you're seeing more of this
but like to thank everybody out there for listening
and let's all get out there, start fixing the world
one car at a time.
This is the end of this video.
I hope you enjoyed it and I'll see you in the next one.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
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