Automotive Diagnostic Podcast Jan 19, 2026

335: Does This Module Need Programming?

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Term

eProm work

eProm work is when mechanics change or fix the memory chip in a car's computer. This can help with things like programming new keys for the car.

Term

J2534

J2534 is a set of rules that lets you connect special tools to a car's computer to update or fix it. It helps mechanics work on different car brands more easily.

Term

key and immobilizer

Key and immobilizer systems are what keep your car safe from being stolen. They make sure that only the right key can start the engine.

Term

drivability diagnostics

Drivability diagnostics is when mechanics figure out why a car isn't driving well. They check different parts to see what's causing problems like poor acceleration or steering issues.

Term

electrical diagnostics

Electrical diagnostics is when mechanics check the electrical parts of a car to find out if something is wrong. They use special tools to help them do this.

Term

module programming

Module programming is when you change or update the software in a car's computer systems. This helps the car work better or adds new features.

Term

control module

A control module is like a computer in your car that helps it run properly. Sometimes, when you change this part, it needs to be set up or programmed to work with the rest of the car.

Car

Ford Fusion

The Ford Fusion is a type of car made by Ford. It's a sedan, which means it has four doors and is designed for comfort and practicality.

Term

as-built data

As-built data is like the factory settings for a car's electronic parts. It's important to know this information when fixing or replacing those parts to make sure everything works properly.

Part

ABS module

The ABS module is a part of the car that helps the brakes work better, especially when you need to stop quickly. It makes sure the wheels don't lock up and skid.

Car

The Ford Ranger is a type of truck that is good for carrying things and can be used for work or fun activities. It's known for being strong and having different options for how it runs, which makes it a favorite for many people who need a truck.

Car

Ford Transit

The Ford Transit Custom is a large van that businesses often use to carry tools, equipment, or goods. It's designed to be easy to drive and has a lot of room inside, making it very useful for work.

Car

Jeep Cherokee

The Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk is a special version of the Jeep Cherokee that is built for off-road driving. It has features that help it handle rough terrain better than regular models.

Brand

Chrysler

Chrysler is another major car company in the U.S. that makes cars and minivans.

Brand

Stellantis

Stellantis is a big car company that owns many brands, including Chrysler and others, created from a merger of two companies.

Brand

GM

GM stands for General Motors, a large car company that makes many different brands of vehicles, like Chevrolet and Cadillac.

Brand

Nissan

Nissan is a car company from Japan that makes many types of vehicles, including electric cars.

Car

Chevy Colorado

The Chevy Colorado is a type of truck made by Chevrolet. It's smaller than full-size trucks but still great for carrying things and driving around town.

Term

PCM

The PCM is like the brain of the car that helps manage how the engine and transmission work together. It makes sure everything runs smoothly and efficiently.

Term

RF Hub

The RF Hub is a part of the car that helps it communicate with your key fob, allowing you to unlock and start the car without using a physical key. It's important for security and ease of use.

Term

BCM

The BCM is like a control center for the car's electrical systems, managing things like lights and locks. It helps keep everything working together smoothly.

Term

programming order guide

The programming order guide is like a recipe that tells you the steps to follow when setting up or replacing parts in the car. It helps make sure everything works together correctly.

Term

ECM

The ECM is like the car's brain for the engine. It helps the engine run smoothly by controlling things like fuel injection and ignition timing.

Term

TCM

The TCM is the part of the car that helps the transmission work properly, making sure it shifts gears at the right time.

Term

axle ratio

Axle ratio is a number that shows how many times the driveshaft turns for each turn of the wheels. It can change how fast a car accelerates and how much fuel it uses.

Term

solenoid strategy

Solenoid strategy is how a car's computer controls small devices called solenoids that help manage things like the transmission. It helps the car shift gears smoothly.

Car

Volkswagen Touareg

The Volkswagen Touareg is a larger SUV that offers luxury features and is good for both city driving and off-road adventures. It has a comfortable interior and many tech options.

Car

Volkswagen Tiguan

The Volkswagen Tiguan is a small SUV that many people use for everyday driving. It's known for being comfortable and having a lot of space inside.

LIVE

Welcome to the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.

We're going to explore ways to sharpen our diagnostic skills, find learning resources, and hear from

experts in the automotive field.

This episode is brought to you by L1 Automotive Training and Keith Perkins.

If you're looking for education on module programming, J2534, eProm work, key and immobilizer,

electrical diagnostics, or drivability diagnostics, Keith has a website L1Training.com that's

got over 60 hours of training videos on all those subjects and more.

When I first started out doing mobile, I utilized Keith's videos on module programming in J2534

in order to get my head wrapped around what I would need for the tooling, the computers,

the software setups, what kind of obstacles I would be up against when I'm out there

programming modules on cars, and it was a huge benefit to me.

I continue to use the training videos that he has on his website.

I strongly recommend checking out L1Training.com.

The link is in the show notes.

Hey, what's going on, Automotive World?

Welcome to another episode of the Automotive Diagnostic Podcast.

My name is Sean Tipping.

I'll be your host once again for this week's episode.

Thank you so much for joining me.

This week on the show, just me, and I'm going to talk about a question that we

get all the time running an ST mobile, doing the mobile thing.

I also get a few emails, messages about it, but the listening audience is pretty savvy

crowd.

I say for the most part, you guys are able to figure this stuff out.

There's not too much of an issue, but every once in a while and more on the second part

of this episode, I do get questions about whether or not a module can be programmed

to a car, or the more basic question that we get funneled into our business is does

this module need programming at all, right?

So we're replacing a control module on a car, and obviously we do the programming.

It's part of the service that we offer to our customers, and maybe you do it in your

shop as well.

And so when you're planning the replacement, you get two questions, okay?

Number one, doesn't need to be programmed at all.

And then of course, if it does, how do I program it?

But then in addition to that, and this is one of the more trickier questions that's

a little bit more open-ended is, can I use a used module, a second hand module,

a module from another car in place of the one that I'm taking out of the vehicle?

And then again, if we're doing that, what's required, how do I do it?

What do I need for that?

And that does become a lot more trickier, and that's probably where I

personally get more questions from the listeners of the show.

And sometimes we get a bunch of these from customers too.

Sometimes I'll say, hey, I've never tried that.

Maybe nobody's tried a used module in that particular scenario,

especially if it's something that's relatively new.

You might be the first one, or at least the first documented case of putting

a used module in a particular application.

So it does get a little bit trickier, but I'm gonna start out with the basics

here and how we handle it when we get calls in from somebody that says,

hey, I'm replacing control module X on X vehicle.

It's this year, it's this engine, this platform.

We're placing the module, first off, doesn't need programming.

And then more on our end, what are we gonna need to actually program it, right?

And I will say right off the bat, we've built up our own internal database,

both with detailed documents that are stored in our drive.

But then we also have a spreadsheet reference that we can just quickly go to

say, okay, it's this year, forward fusion, replacing the body control module.

Can we do used, if we're doing do, what do we need, what tool, what laptop?

And that's more specific to our exact application.

But I'm gonna go over more broad perspective here of, hey,

I'm replacing control module, how do I quickly find out if there's other things

that I need to do upon replacement.

And of course, we try to train our customers and it'd be nice if more of

them kind of thought ahead to, okay, I know that I'm going to be replacing this part,

right, I've condemned X part, I know that it needs to be replaced.

I should look up the procedure and see if anything extra needs to be done

before I even order the part so they can quote it correctly.

But a lot of the times what happens is shops will just install a module and

then they'll call us because, oh, it doesn't start, it's got codes,

it doesn't do what it's supposed to, and yeah, it does need programming.

Anyways, we get the call so we want to be able to quickly look at the information

that we have and figure out, okay, doesn't need to be programmed.

Can it be programmed, right, especially in a used scenario?

And then if so, what do we need in order to do it?

How are we going to do it?

So we'll cover that, first things first.

And again, the listeners of this show, you probably know this, so

we'll go through it relatively quickly.

But of course, the easiest way, I shouldn't even say the easiest way,

but the most consistent way across modules, across brands to find out

if a particular module needs any sort of programming or configuration

or extra steps after you've replaced it is to go into whatever service

information you're using, whether that be all data,

identifix, Mitchell, maybe factory information, and go to whatever module it is

and just look up the R&R procedure, right?

The remove and replace, the removal and installation procedure.

And sometimes it actually does pay to look at both, right?

Some service informations have the removal and the installation

split into two processes.

Sometimes it's one big long one, sometimes they're separate.

And occasionally at the beginning of the removal process,

it may tell you to hook up a scan tool and to pull data out of the existing one.

And there's a number of control modules across brands that will have you

take the data out of the existing module before you replace it with a new one.

And just a couple of quick examples on that where it's not

impossible to get the programming done without doing this.

But it becomes either more time consuming or more difficult if you

don't have the original plugged in first.

And Ford is the biggest example of that.

And number one, to be able to get the coding or

the as-built data out of the original module can save you time.

Now, sometimes you can just pull it off the server and you're good.

But there have been a ton of examples that we've experienced with ABS modules

in instrument clusters on the 2010-ish range Ford vehicles.

Where the as-built data on the server is wrong.

And so if you just go to do it with a new module plugged in,

it'll pull data from the server, but it won't work.

You need to get it off the old one or at least have access to a similar vehicle

to get that as-built data, which is the coding, essentially.

I said the older range, but now that I'm thinking about it,

new vehicles have that problem too.

We had, I think it was a 2019 ranger.

We've had Ford transit issues where the data on the server is wrong.

And you gotta go through a whole process to get that changed

if you don't have the original data.

But again, going to my point there is there may be a step

in the removal process that you may want to pay attention to

that has something to do with the programming.

But here's the other thing, it will clue you into,

oh, hey, this does have some sort of programming to it.

And then you can go to the bottom of the installation,

and usually somewhere in the last few steps

of the installation of the module,

it will tell you either what to do for programming

or give you a link to go to another place

to read up on the specific programming.

So that's just the all-around big blanket statement

of how do you find out if a module needs

to be programmed at all?

Take a look at service information,

look at the R&R procedure,

go to the bottom of the installation

and does it tell you to do anything programming-wise

or setup-wise or configuration-wise

and then you go and you read that process.

Now, I will say this is not 100% accurate

or it doesn't include every single module

in every single car.

We have run into examples out there

where if you go into the service information,

it does not say anything about programming,

but if you install it on the car

and you don't program it, you're going to have issues

that thing's not gonna work,

there's gonna be warning lights.

We just had a Jeep Cherokee, I think it was a Trailhawk

where somebody put a rack in it.

And we were pretty sure that it did need programming,

but we looked at the service information

and it doesn't say anything about programming

with the R&R procedure.

Well, the customer replaced the rack

and of course it did need programming.

So every once in a while,

you are gonna run into things in service information

where maybe it doesn't include everything you need.

European stuff is definitely that way

where they've pushed so much of the information

into their factory tooling

that if you're looking at an all-data or an Identifix,

you may not have much information at all

on what you're supposed to be doing

with the replacement of a module.

So there is some caveats to it,

but again, generally speaking,

that's the easiest way to find out

of do I need to do any sort of post setup

for this control module.

Now, the other thing I wanted to share here,

and this hopefully is a tip for you

that speeds things up

and gets you more accurate information quicker.

I'm gonna go over the big three

for domestic stuff in the US.

So GM Ford Chrysler or Stellantis

and I'll give you some shortcuts to search for

when you're using aftermarket service information

to find a chart of what needs to be programmed

on what module or if it needs to be programmed.

Okay, and then also Nissan.

And the reason I'm doing the big three in Nissan

is those are our most commonly requested modules

to be programmed.

And I was just looking at 2025 numbers

and it went GM Ford Chrysler or Nissan

in that order of modules that we program.

So obviously it's the most common one

that we're gonna be looking at up the most

and that might be the case for you too.

There are probably shortcuts for other makes and models.

I just didn't have those at the ready

but I'm gonna share with you

what I've got for those.

So what I'm saying here is if you go

into service information,

and this could be Identifix,

could be All Data,

probably Mitchell,

Modologic, I don't use those too

so I can't say for sure

but I know within All Data or Identifix

if you use these search terms

as soon as you go into the service info

and build the vehicle,

it will get you to a chart

that's gonna be very helpful.

So I'll give you the exact terms here

so you can write these down if you want to

so that you can remember them for each brand

but I'll start with GM.

So if you go into service information

and you build your vehicle,

whatever it is, your General Motors vehicle,

let's say it's a 2016 Chevy Colorado, all right?

And you could obviously just go to the module,

like I said, do the R&R process

and go to the bottom and see does have anything

or here's the other thing that you can do

for a quick reference.

And this is pretty much any GM

that has module programming.

I'm sure there's exceptions

but for the stuff that we're working on every day,

you know, 2008-ish to 2020,

that's our main range of vehicles,

this applies for all GMs.

If you type in control module references, okay?

So again, that's control module references

on a GM vehicle.

It is gonna bring you to a chart

that is going to show you the,

it's gonna give you the alphanumeric code

for the module.

So if you've ever looked at the programming software

or wiring diagrams for GM,

they assign control modules with an alphanumeric code, right?

So it'd be like A11 or K29 or K71.

There's lots of Ks that refer to modules.

T sometimes is used.

Anyways, it's an alphanumeric code.

It tells you what the module is, right?

You can click on the schematic

for that system or that component as well.

There's a repair instruction link

and then there is a programming and setup link on this chart.

So basically you just go down the chart

or you can control F, find your module

and in the chart that says programming and setup,

you can click on it and it will bring you right to

everything that needs to be done

for that control module when it is replaced.

And then you can also click on the schematics

and the repair procedure if you want, right?

It's just a quick reference for everything

that needs to be programmed on the vehicle.

I shouldn't say any control module is on the vehicle,

but anything that's going to require programming,

generally speaking, is on this list.

So again, that's control module references, search that

and it's just a quick setup

for module programming on General Motors.

Okay, so now Fords and I have found

this is about 2010-ish and UP will utilize this.

So it's not on some older stuff.

You may have to dig and find that manually, right?

And you can use the search function

within the service information

just to search your particular module

and you can probably find it.

But again, I like these charts

because it includes everything on the car

and it's just a nice quick easy reference.

And if you're just operating on,

you're going into the service information

over and over and over again,

it's nice just to be able to refer to one place

and say, okay, I know how this chart works.

I know what's going to be on here and here you go.

So for Ford, when you're in the search tab,

search module configuration, okay?

And this is going to bring you to a chart

that talks about the programming.

So if you read the first few,

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All those questions.

Isaac's your guy.

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Check out the link in the show notes.

I highly recommend it.

If you have paragraphs on it, it's good information

but it's about programming and how Ford works

and as build data and the vid block,

what is the adaptive learning?

But if you continue down on the page,

you'll find another chart,

much like the control module references for GM,

it's gonna break it down by module,

gives you the module address.

It says if it requires a PMI,

which is for its programmable module installation,

it tells you if it's reprogrammed capable.

Okay, so not all Ford modules can be updated

with new software, but some can.

This will give you a yes, no.

It will tell you if it requires any adaptive learning

or calibration, which would be after the PMI

and it tells you if there's anything you can change

in programmable parameters,

which is custom settings, customer preferences,

things like that and it breaks it down by module

and it is really helpful to get an overview

of all the modules on the car.

And then if you keep going down,

it'll give you some errors that you might come up with

in relationship to programming and what they mean.

Again, helpful stuff if those pop up,

usually thing that it tells you to do

is just says do a PMI for just to put all these errors,

but it does tell you like,

what does it mean when I have a VIN mismatch code?

And it'll tell you the modules that can set it

and tell you what you're supposed to do to fix it.

If it will or not, it's another question,

but that's on there.

The first chart is probably the most helpful,

but again, that's module configuration for Ford.

Moving on to Chrysler.

Now, I haven't found a chart exactly like the last two

that I talked about for Chrysler.

You kind of have to just go to the module

and look at the procedure to find what's necessary.

Like I mentioned that Jeep that I was referring to

didn't have anything about programming

or at least I missed it if it did.

But what Chrysler has is it's a different type of chart.

It has to do with modules that contain any sort of role

within the immobilizer system, right?

So this is RF Hub, BCM, PCM, the keys themselves,

anything that has something to do

with the immobilizer on the vehicle.

If you look up programming order guide,

that's the search term that you would use

is programming order guide.

It's gonna include all of the modules

that have something to do with the immobilizer system.

And it will tell you the order

in which you perform the steps after they're replaced.

And it gives you a chart of which module are you replacing

and which modules are still existing on the vehicle, right?

So it'll say like condition one,

you're replacing the RF Hub, but the body control,

the keys and the PCM are staying on the vehicle, okay?

Same thing for the BCM, same thing for the keys,

same thing for the PCM.

And for each one, it's gonna have you do different steps

depending on the module that's replacing.

But here's the other really helpful part.

And if you get into module programming

where multiple things are being replaced at one time,

which does happen, this chart will walk you through

what steps need to be done

if I'm replacing both the RF Hub and the BCM at the same time

but I have existing keys and PCM

or I'm replacing the RF Hub and the keys at the same time

but the BCM and the PCM are staying on the vehicle, right?

So all the different combinations

of what could happen are on here

and the steps in order that you're supposed to do

for these are all on this chart.

So again, that's programming order guide

if you're looking at a Stellantis vehicle

and replacing anything specifically

with the immobilizer system,

if it's just a control module,

you'll probably have to search that particular module

and see, okay.

Finally, Nissan.

Nissan doesn't have a chart either that I've found

but what Nissan has is if you search additional service

and then the acronym of the module you're replacing,

so you know, ECM, BCM, TCM,

additional service is gonna bring you to the steps

that need to be performed

after the module is physically replaced, all right.

Now, Nissan's another one where you need to pay attention

because there are certain applications,

certain modules where it really benefits you

to pull the configuration data off of the existing module

if possible before going into the new one.

So that is one thing where

the additional service usually starts after

if you've replaced it,

but you may wanna look at the whole process

to see if it requests you to pull configuration data

on the original, right.

And so for us doing mobile service,

that's important to know so that we can tell the shop,

hey, leave the original plugged in

or we need access to the original

in order to plug it in to do our process.

You know, going back to Ford,

like if you replace a PCM,

you want that information,

so number one, you don't have to search the vehicle options

and enter them manually like tire size

and axle ratio and all that stuff,

but also the solenoid strategy

is stored in powertrain control modules on Fords.

Now, can we get that off the tag on the transmission?

Hopefully, hopefully it's legible,

but if you don't grab it off the original,

then you have to type it in manually.

If you perform the PMI properly

where it inhales off of the existing module

and then exhales into the new one,

it'll transfer all of that and it'll save you time, right.

So if you're looking to increase your efficiency

in module programming as well,

these are the sort of things to pay attention to

where the inhale can be very beneficial.

Now there's times in certain situations,

maybe you don't want to do that.

If you're, you know,

you can get into a lot of different situations

as you program more and more,

but generally speaking,

it's very helpful to have the original plugged in first

on some of these vehicles.

Now, GMs, you don't really need to do that

as far as I'm aware.

Now, I still like having the original module,

but there's no like inhale function for GMs

that transfers over to the new module,

except for like, I'm sure there's oddball ones out there

that have to do with like key remote information

I'm thinking of and stuff like that,

but generally speaking,

general motors, you don't have to do that, okay?

So that's the general process that we're gonna use

to find out if module needs to be programmed at all, right?

Or is there something that we have to do?

And, you know, there's some modules

that don't need any programming.

They are just plug and play.

And quite often they're modules

that are less mission critical,

but as time goes on, more and more things

at least need some sort of scan tool function or setup

or calibration, even if it's not a, you know,

official programming of the module,

we're not changing the software,

maybe we're not even coding it,

but we're doing some sort of setup.

And in that case, okay, could the shop handle it?

Potentially it depends on their capabilities

and their tooling that they have,

but that's where we're gonna find this information

for anyone.

So that's the first step of this,

where this gets more tricky, more confusing,

there's more variables and nuances to consider

is if we're doing a used control module.

And again, this is more of the questions

that I get from some of the listeners and friends

and obviously the people that we're doing work for is,

hey, I'm gonna try to do a used control module

in this application, again, doesn't need programming.

And then if it does, can we do it?

And how do we do it?

And this is where documenting some of our processes

have been really helpful

because then we have a quick chart to say,

yes, we've attempted a used module in this application

and it does work, here's what you do.

Maybe it's no different than the programming

and setup for a new module, that's totally possible.

It might just go through with the factory software

and the factory process.

Maybe there's additional things that we have to do.

Maybe there's even less steps

than we would normally have to do.

If they're able to get a control module

for a particular vehicle

that already has the correct software for that setup,

now they have to match vehicle options

and all that stuff,

then we may not have to do a whole lot,

maybe a VIN change,

maybe just some sort of quick learn

or setup for that particular application,

but it really depends on the car

and how they have that network

and module configuration setup on that particular vehicle.

And there's tons and tons and tons of different setups

and modules and networks

and things that cars will allow to happen

with used modules or not, right?

So again, there's no chart

within factory service information,

at least not that I've found,

that is going to give you the,

hey, you can use the used module here,

a lot of times if you find anything

in the service information referencing this,

it's just going to say you have to do a new one.

A new is required.

And a lot of times you ask the dealer

that's going to be their stance as well.

Understandably so, if they're warrantying stuff,

they're going to want to put new stuff in

and maybe that's your attitude at your shop too,

is like, why would I put something used in there?

I have to warranty it.

I totally get that.

Where we come from a lot of times,

where we come from a lot of the time

is both availability and cost, right?

Now the cost piece of it kind of depends on the scenario,

but in some cases, the cost difference

between a used and a new is absolutely crazy.

I was just quoting out a radio

for a Volkswagen Tiguan or Touareg or something like that.

And the new radio for this thing,

and this car is 10 plus years old, was like $2,700, right?

The car is maybe worth that.

And you could get a used one for it's still $3,400.

It's not exactly a cheap radio,

but like that's the amount of money

that we're talking about sometimes

where used makes a lot more sense,

but then the question becomes, can we do that?

Is it possible to put a used control module

in this application?

And in that case, we can

as long as they get the right one.

And that's our biggest thing when we talk to people

about used control modules.

So I'm like, yes, we can do it or maybe we can't,

but like in this application, we know we can do this radio,

but you have to match the part numbers exactly.

And we tell people to match the part numbers exactly.

Here's the thing, just real talk about programming.

It doesn't always have to be exact.

You could have a different part number.

Maybe it's a super session.

Maybe there's just more than one hardware,

the application that will work in that particular case.

And it'll take the software and the car

and it'll work just fine.

But my problem is when I'm looking at this

from like, hey, what works and what doesn't,

I don't have a chart.

And I don't think there is a chart

of every wrong application that will work

in a particular vehicle, right?

So there's no chart out there that says,

yes, this is the wrong part number for this car,

but it'll still work.

That's just not a thing.

So we're rolling the dice.

If you're getting something that is not the same hardware,

we don't know if it will work or not.

And that's what we tell our customers too.

Now, you can use some websites

and cartashpart.com is actually really, really helpful here.

You can go on and I will say it's not 100%.

It's not, there's errors within there.

Like you get some stuff and it says it'll work.

It doesn't work.

But for the most part, it's actually pretty useful

to figure out if a particular module will work

in a specific application.

Again, not 100%, but it gets you pretty close

a lot of the time.

And I'd say their accuracy is pretty good.

Their database is pretty good.

I was talking to Neil, I don't know,

it's probably over a year ago I had him on the podcast,

but he owns a junkyard out in Boston.

And he was telling me about the system that they use

to develop, when you go into cartashpart.com

and you're building your vehicle options

and then it's having you select certain things

about the control module that this is a database

on like that side of things, that world of the automotive

where they've done their homework

and it's actually pretty good.

So I'll use that sometimes to help me figure out

as a control module from this particular vehicle.

Like right, maybe it's we're putting in a module in an O9

and it came out of an O8

and maybe it's a different part number.

I'm like, I don't know if it'll work,

but I will use a cartashpart sometimes

to help me figure that out.

Okay, now of course you can use your pair link shop

as well and you can figure out

what is the factory part number, the new part number.

And that can help you identify whether,

like a lot of times when we get to a car,

the parts already been replaced.

Maybe they don't even have the original anymore

because the car came to them that way.

And so now I have to try to figure out

like is this even the right part number at all

because I don't have the original in front of me.

That's where repair link will help out

and you can, if you're having issues programming

you can at least say, hey, this is not the right part.

I don't know if it's gonna work or not.

It doesn't seem to be, it may be a hardware issue.

Here's the correct part number.

You're gonna have to find one of those.

So obviously getting the right module is step one

and that can be harder than you think.

And again, some of these used part scenarios,

I mentioned the cost of it,

but some of its availability too.

It could be a little both, right?

There's certain modules that are just unobtainium.

You can't find them.

They don't make them new

and everybody's swooped up the used ones already

like O5-ish Cummins engine controllers.

Good luck.

There might be some used ones out there,

but there are multiple thousands of dollars to get them.

So there's certain applications where it is really tough.

We went through, it was older Mercedes

trying to do an all activity module

and they're out there,

but man finding one in good shape is almost impossible.

The dealer can't get them.

That was actually how we got involved with it.

This is the dealer couldn't get a new one.

We tried a couple of used ones.

They all ended up having the same problem

or the one that didn't have the problem

was the wrong part number.

So it was a hassle, right?

So anyways, sometimes we've gotta go the used route again

because you can't even get a new one.

And so, okay, you find the correct used module.

And again, the question is, can we make this happen?

Now, that's where I could talk for hours and hours

because there are so many different applications,

combinations and differences in the scenarios

and the programming equipment

and what's required to make something work.

And that's where we have kind of created

our own internal database on can we use

a used module in this application?

And we haven't tried everything, right?

Again, there's probably a million different combinations

of different things, probably more than that.

And luckily we can kind of batch things.

We can group things.

We can say this year, Ford, yeah,

you can pretty much do used anything or this year GM.

Okay, these control modules don't matter

but these control modules do.

We can do used in this case.

We can't do used in this case, right?

And so you can kind of come up with a feel

for a particular vehicle application

but even within that you can run into a scenario

where hey, a used module is just not gonna work

in this case for whatever reason, right?

Maybe it's the immobilizer portion of it.

Maybe it's the VIN or the programming portion of it

is not going to change.

And again, that can depend on

did you get the correct module or not?

But a lot of times what we run into is the VIN number

or the immobilizer portion not matching up with the vehicle.

So then it's can we do this with a factory tooling?

Do we have to do board work to make this happen?

And then if that's the case, is it even possible

to do it board work, right?

And you've heard me talk on the show a ton

about taking classes and learning about the module cloning

and all the aftermarket tools.

But it gets really tricky here because again,

there's no database.

I don't have an all data for like used module programming.

I'm gonna be doing some searching,

whether that be, you know, Google, YouTube,

Facebook groups, diag.net, utilizing, you know,

AI large language modules to help me search

all of those resources very quickly.

And of course, documenting

and referencing our internal database,

maybe reaching out to some friends too,

that's another option because maybe, you know,

so-and-so has done it and so he can tell you, yeah,

it works fine, you can do a used ABS in this Volvo,

it's no problem, Vita will program it

and you're good to go, right?

So where I'm going with that is,

is if you're getting into the module programming

side of things, you may have to say to a customer,

well, we don't know if we can do a used or not,

but we're going to try and see what happens.

And then once you do,

you can start building that database of like,

hey, this module works in this application,

this module doesn't work.

And then if you find a module

that doesn't work in a particular application,

is it because it just can't be done

or is it because, you know,

some more advanced techniques, procedures

or tooling is gonna be required to make it happen.

And then the next question is like,

is it worth it for what we're doing here, right?

Like how many requests am I getting

for this particular used module that I can't make work?

And what can I realistically charge for making it happen,

right?

And that's a worthwhile question to ask

because we've run into some scenarios

where there are no other options

and this car is going to the scrapyard

if we're not able to make this used module work.

We had a BCM and an old GM vehicle.

There are no new ones, you can't get them

but you can get a used one, right?

And the regular GM programming does not work

for used modules in these particular applications.

Board work turns out it's not exactly the easiest thing

to do for this particular module

but you can make it work

and then that vehicle is back on the road, right?

So then that becomes really worth it

to know how to do that.

Now, how many of those old GMs

are we gonna be getting calls on?

Hard to say, but I've got it well documented now

so the next time that that does come around

we can say, yes, we can do it

but we're charging a premium price for it

because I already know that there are some other,

there's a number of other people

that aren't able to do it.

This particular application is like,

yeah, we've tried a few other people

that weren't able to make this happen

and they were very happy to pay a premium price

for someone who could.

So that's kind of where you can find your advantage

in the marketplace maybe

is if there is something that has a demand

that there's not a whole lot of other options for

then you can invest the time, the effort,

the resources into learning, can I do this?

What's required?

How do I do it?

Okay, now I've got a service

that I can offer a premium for.

So that's kind of where we take a lot

of the used ones is we look at the vehicle,

we look at the options.

Is it just somebody that's trying

to spend as little money as possible?

Or is it somebody that has zero other options

or this car is going to the scrap yard

and so they're trying to make this option work

and those are the ones that I more gravitate to

like let's try and figure this out.

Let's be the service that can make this happen, right?

We don't always need to be the hero necessarily

in every situation.

Some of them are better to move on from

but I think it's worthwhile to investigate.

So anyways, that's gonna be where I wrap this up

for questions on module programming.

Hopefully that was helpful

and somewhat of a decent resource for you

if you're getting into this or you're seeing more of this

but like to thank everybody out there for listening

and let's all get out there, start fixing the world

one car at a time.

This is the end of this video.

I hope you enjoyed it and I'll see you in the next one.

Bye.

0:00

38:24

335: Does This Module Need Programming?

eProm work

J2534

key and immobilizer

drivability diagnostics

electrical diagnostics

module programming

control module

Ford Fusion

as-built data

ABS module

Ford Ranger

Ford Transit

Jeep Cherokee

Chrysler

Stellantis

GM

Nissan

Chevy Colorado

PCM

RF Hub

BCM

programming order guide

ECM

TCM

axle ratio

solenoid strategy

Volkswagen Touareg

Volkswagen Tiguan

About this episode

Original notes