The DeLorean DMC-12 is a sports car made in small numbers, with a stainless-steel look and doors that open upward like wings. It’s often talked about because it’s unusual and easy to recognize. The podcast mention is about the people and history around the car and the company.
The FTC is a U.S. government agency that watches for unfair or misleading business practices. When they “crack down,” car dealers may face more checks and fines if their ads or sales tactics don’t follow the rules.
Junk fees are extra costs a dealer adds to your car purchase that you didn’t really plan for. They can make the final bill much bigger than the price you thought you were getting.
“Bait and switch” is when a seller advertises one price or offer (“bait”), then changes the terms to something worse once you’re already committed (“switch”). In car sales, this can mean the advertised deal disappears or the final price jumps due to added charges or different vehicle availability.
The out-the-door price is the full total you’ll pay for the car, not just the sticker price. It includes the extra stuff like taxes and fees, so you can compare deals fairly.
It means trying to make car buying fairer for everyone. The goal is to reduce situations where dealerships can pressure people who don’t know what to look for.
A dealership is where you go to buy a car from a seller. It’s also where you can run into confusing pricing or pressure to add things you didn’t plan on.
Emotional buyers are people who decide based on feelings instead of facts. Car salespeople often try to get you excited or rushed so you don’t think as clearly.
A window sticker is the official label on a new car that shows the manufacturer’s suggested price and important details. It makes it harder for dealers to hide what the car is “supposed” to cost.
MSRP is the price the carmaker says the car should cost. Even if a dealer sells it for more or less, MSRP is the starting number people compare deals to.
Concept
dealer pricing based on customer enthusiasm
The speaker is describing a time when the price could depend on how eager the customer seemed. Today, consumer rules try to make sure the price you see and the price you pay are explained clearly.
They’re talking about working at a Nissan dealership. The episode is about new rules that affect how car dealers sell cars, so the brand matters because it’s part of the dealer network being regulated.
Concept
women's empowerment shows
This is about how women are treated when they shop for cars or get service. The hosts are saying the industry has a bad reputation because some people act like women need a man to be involved or make decisions.
The clutch helps the engine and the gearbox work together on a manual car. If it’s worn out, the car may feel like it won’t accelerate smoothly or shifting gets harder, and fixing it can take a lot of work.
Required fees are the mandatory charges you have to pay to finish buying the car. The FTC is saying dealers shouldn’t advertise a cheap price if they’re leaving out fees that you’ll still have to pay.
This is about what dealers put in their ads when they advertise a car price. The key issue is that the ad price shouldn’t be missing mandatory charges that you’ll have to pay anyway.
A dock fee is an extra line-item charge added by some car dealers. It’s usually not a real “thing” you can point to like parts or labor—it’s more like a pricing add-on that boosts the dealer’s profit.
A rebate is money back (or a discount) that lowers what you pay for the car. The FTC point being made is that if a rebate is available to most/all buyers, the ad shouldn’t hide it.
A discount is any deal that lowers the car’s price. The FTC-related point here is that if the discount is available to everyone, the dealer shouldn’t advertise a lower price and then add the discount later.
A “college graduate rebate” is an incentive that only applies if the buyer meets specific eligibility criteria (like graduation timing or proof). In advertising, bundling this kind of rebate into a single advertised price can be considered misleading if not everyone qualifies.
“Advertise straight” here means advertising pricing in a straightforward, non-misleading way—without burying eligibility requirements or incentives inside a headline number. It’s essentially the opposite of “bait” pricing tactics that make a deal look available to everyone.
They’re talking about how dealers try to win online shoppers by showing the cheapest price in listings. The FTC is cracking down when that “price” is misleading or used in a way that tricks people into clicking.
AutoNation is a big company that owns lots of car dealerships. The hosts mention it to explain that a local dealer was bought by a larger group.
Concept
dealer rules
“Dealer rules” are laws and enforcement that tell car dealers what they can and can’t do when selling cars. They usually focus on making sure customers aren’t misled about the real cost.
An alternator is the engine-driven generator that powers a vehicle’s electrical system and recharges the battery. When dealers discuss marking up an alternator, they’re talking about the parts-and-labor economics of electrical repairs.
It means the price doesn’t feel straightforward. The dealer may change the numbers, add extra charges, or make it hard to tell what you’re really paying until late in the deal.
Carvana sells used cars with a more straightforward process and usually less bargaining. The hosts mention it because people may pay more if buying feels easier and less stressful.
CarMax is a used-car store that usually doesn’t haggle on price. The idea is that you can see the price and buy with less hassle, so people may accept paying a bit more.
No-haggle means the price is basically the price. You don’t have to argue or negotiate to try to get a better deal, which can make the whole process feel calmer.
A service department is where the shop does car work—like fixing problems and doing scheduled maintenance. When people talk about dealer rules, they often mean how that service is advertised and priced.
Brand
Lugra
They mention “Lugra” as an example of a business that was known for good service and clear pricing. The point is that customers value trust and consistency.
Term
price is the price is the price
They’re basically saying the price you’re quoted is the price you pay. It’s about avoiding surprise charges or bait-and-switch pricing.
This is the price the dealer posts for the car. The point is that customers should be able to buy at that posted price without needing to do a specific financing plan or trade-in.
Cars.com is a major U.S. online automotive marketplace where dealers list vehicle prices and details. The hosts mention it to emphasize that the FTC pricing expectations apply across third-party listing sites, not just a dealer’s own website.
This means the dealer says you only get the advertised deal if you take their financing. The discussion is that the posted price shouldn’t depend on using their financing.
These are extra charges on top of the price you first see. The point is that dealers shouldn’t advertise one price online and then only offer it if you accept extra charges.
A trade-in is when you bring your old car and use it to lower the price of the new one. The rule being discussed is that the online price shouldn’t only be available if you trade in your car.
This means the government costs to register the car. The hosts are saying the ad price should only be adjusted for these required charges, not for lots of extra add-ons.
“Window tint” is an aftermarket add-on that some dealers may try to include or upsell as part of the final price. The segment uses it as an example of optional extras that shouldn’t be quietly tacked onto the advertised price.
A “desert protection package” is a dealer add-on bundle marketed for certain climates—often involving protective coatings, film, or other appearance/paint protection. The segment treats it as an example of optional add-ons that can be used to inflate the final price beyond what buyers expect from the ad.
“Artificial intelligence negotiating agents” are software bots that can interact with dealerships and attempt to negotiate on a customer’s behalf. In this segment, they’re described as operating under an alias to gather pricing/fee information and generate comparable out-the-door quotes.
A “dealer transparency index” is a scoring or ranking system built from data (like fee breakdowns and out-the-door pricing) to show how clearly dealers disclose costs. Here, it’s presented as a tool for consumers to look up dealers and judge pricing honesty.
Add-ons are extra stuff the dealer tries to add to the deal—often for extra money—on top of the car’s base price. The key is whether they tell you clearly what they are and what they cost.
Term
doxy
“Doxy” here sounds like the dealer’s paperwork fee—money they charge to handle the paperwork. It’s important because it can change the final price, so you want it clearly listed.
It’s like a school report card for dealerships. If they’re more transparent with pricing, they get a better grade (A), and if not, they get a worse one (F).
It means people shop by the monthly payment instead of the full price. A deal can look okay month-to-month, but cost more overall because of financing terms.
A loan is how you pay for the car over time instead of all at once. The longer the loan term, the easier it can be to get a lower monthly payment—even if you pay more overall.
The out-of-the-door price is the total cost of the car after everything is added in—price, taxes, and fees. It’s the number you should compare between dealers so you don’t get tricked by a low monthly payment.
Accessories are extras added to the car, like add-on features or packages. You want to know if they’re included in the deal price or if they’re being added on afterward.
“Tax tags” means the government-required costs to register the car and get license plates. They’re usually added on top of the car’s price, so they matter when you’re calculating the true total cost.
A monthly payment can sound affordable, but it doesn’t tell the whole story. This is about making sure you understand the real cost behind that payment, not just the number you see each month.
This refers to “total cost of ownership,” meaning the ongoing expenses beyond the purchase price—like insurance, maintenance, fuel, and sometimes repairs. Dealers and buyers often focus on the payment, but yearly costs can be the bigger budget driver.
Insurance premiums are what you pay each month (or year) to keep the car insured. They can change a lot depending on where you live and what car you buy.
They’re using the Corvette as an example of a car that can cost more to insure. Insurance price depends on the car and your location, not just the monthly payment.
Insurance companies charge different prices depending on where you live. Your zip code can change the risk they assume, so the same car can cost more or less to insure.
A Kia Rio is a budget-friendly small car. The point here is that when you buy a different car, your insurance price can jump, sometimes a lot, so you should check the cost before you sign paperwork.
An insurance agent is the person who helps you get your car insurance. You should talk to them before buying so you know what the monthly cost will be for the exact car you’re considering.
They’re suggesting a simple money rule: don’t let car costs take up more than about 10% of what you earn each month. And they mean all the costs, not just the monthly payment—like gas, upkeep, and insurance.
Negative equity means your car is worth less than what you still owe on it. If you trade it in, the leftover amount can get added to your next car loan, so you may end up paying more each month.
Edmunds is a car research website that tracks pricing and market trends. Here, they’re being used as a source for how big the “negative equity” problem is on average.
Term
7K
“7K” means $7,000. They’re talking about how borrowing an extra $7,000 can raise your monthly car payment.
Concept
used car today
They’re talking about what it costs to finance a used car right now. The point is that even used cars can be expensive monthly payments.
Term
$550 a month
They’re quoting a typical monthly payment number. The point is that many people can’t comfortably afford that kind of payment.
Term
$803 a month
They’re giving an example of what a typical new-car payment can be. The takeaway is that new cars cost a lot more per month to finance.
An extended warranty is extra protection after the original warranty ends. It can help cover repairs later, but it’s something you should understand and price carefully.
The finance department is the part of the dealership where they set up your loan and finalize the deal. That’s also where you may hear about longer terms and extra products.
They’re saying some loans can be stretched to about 10 years. That can reduce the monthly payment, but it may cost more overall and can be risky if the car loses value.
Sometimes dealers make the monthly payment look smaller by stretching the loan out longer. The car can still end up costing you more overall, even if it feels easier each month.
A warranty is the manufacturer’s promise to cover certain repairs for a set time or mileage. Once it’s over, you usually have to pay for more repairs yourself.
Out of pocket means you’re paying yourself, not using warranty or insurance. The hosts are saying that after coverage ends, repairs can become your responsibility.
AAA is a well-known organization that publishes car-related cost estimates. Their numbers are averages, so your actual costs could be higher or lower depending on what you drive and how you drive it.
As a car gets past a certain mileage, you usually start spending more on things like tires and regular maintenance. The point here is that those costs add up even before you consider big repairs.
They’re saying European cars tend to cost more to maintain. That can happen because parts and labor are often pricier, so repairs and service can add up faster.
Trading in means you give your current car to the dealer and use it toward the next purchase. The hosts are warning that it doesn’t always fix the affordability problem the way people expect.
They’re discussing paying monthly to use a car, instead of buying one outright. The idea is you could switch cars more easily, like a service instead of owning one vehicle long-term.
Concept
wasting our money on one of the things that we hardly ever use
They’re saying people sometimes spend money on car-related stuff they don’t really use. The point is to question whether that spending is worth it.
They’re wondering if the industry might shift from buying cars through dealers to paying for cars like a monthly service. The goal would be to make the system work better for both customers and businesses.
The Ford F-150 is a large pickup truck made for carrying things and towing trailers. The podcast mentions an ’08 model that the owner has kept instead of replacing, which suggests it’s been useful and dependable for them. It’s the kind of truck people talk about because it’s built for real work and regular use.
An oil leak is when engine oil is leaking out of the truck. It might be small, but if it gets worse it can damage the engine or leave you without enough oil.
They’re saying car loans can be so long that it feels like a mortgage. Paying for a car for many years can cost more overall and make it harder to move on.
Public transportation is shared transportation like buses and trains. The point here is that some people may rely on it more if owning a car gets harder.
Short-term rentals are when you rent a car for a few days or weeks instead of buying one. It’s another way to get around if buying a car is too expensive.
Affordability here means whether regular people can realistically afford to buy and keep a car. The hosts are saying automakers are worried about that gap.
“Sub $40,000” means cars priced under $40,000. The important question is whether the final price you pay is really close to that after all the extra costs.
If the average car is getting older, people are keeping their cars longer. That usually means more repairs and maintenance work instead of buying a new car.
Concept
post-COVID-ish free money
After COVID, many people had more money to spend (through stimulus or easier finances). That can make car shopping more competitive and raise prices.
Concept
boomer wealth carrying the economy
The idea is that older, wealthier people are spending enough to keep the economy going. That matters for cars because it influences who can buy new vehicles and what dealers focus on.
“Asking price” is the price a seller lists a vehicle for before negotiation. When average asking prices rise month over month, it signals that market pricing power is shifting toward sellers, which can affect affordability and dealer inventory strategies.
LIVE
Welcome back Wrench Nation, WrenchNation.tv.
Thank you very much, our Park Gas family.
You can get on to WrenchNation.tv, put your comments.
See if you got a rock star, automotive service individual,
whether they had to dealership, independence,
what have you, automotive artists.
Gosh, we had Princess Vedita Singh from India.
There's a ton of shows, Craig Jackson.
We've had a ton of people, employee number,
I think seven from DeLorean, calling in from Ireland.
That was a great interview.
So we appreciate your support.
And our little YouTube channel, man,
I try to park that.
We're not full-time there.
I do have a goal mindset that we're going to take
one of the spaces, Susie, over at our commercial property
and build a little studio.
Oh, that'll be nice.
Just throw up some cameras and stuff.
Speaking of studio, YouTube and all this goodness,
caredge.com.
You check that out as a great resource.
For more details, dive into that.
We just talked about the FTC as an enforcement wave.
How'd you like to get rid of those junk fees,
bait and switch tactics, all kinds of stuff
that's happening.
A lot of you frustrated.
You thought you were going to pay with this thing
and it ended up being more.
It's like going to grocery store bananas was $9.
And you're like, wait a minute.
It was $4.
What's happening?
Ray Shepskis here with us.
Ray, are you hanging out with us?
I am.
It's so good to be with you with Frank and Susie.
Oh, thank you.
Well, we're honored, Ray.
And I got to say you and your son are doing an amazing job.
I'll be honest with you.
I've been binge watching,
hopefully in helping your algorithms.
But your content is just amazing.
And you bring such great support.
You've been in the industry.
How many years now, Ray?
I was active in retail automotive for 43 years.
I retired six years ago.
And my son was convinced that I would suffer
from cognitive decline.
So since I was there to help him when he had to buy a car
and he could rely on me,
well, he thought the rest of America
should be able to rely on me.
And he came up with the idea that we should try
and help level the playing field for people out there.
And Carage was born and we'd been around
for a little over six years and knock on wood.
Things are going well.
Yeah, it's a great channel.
Thank you so much for fighting.
In fact, we're on it now.
New car prices are insane.
You cover that.
Don't make this mistake at the dealership.
It could cost you thousands.
It's really a great place.
A lot of you need to warm up.
Warm up before you just go in cold and emotional.
We're gonna get to that.
And emotional buyers,
probably a salesman's best friend.
Ray, you've been doing this for a while.
Had you ever, or your team,
had a dealer from a time or two ever thought about,
let's say we didn't need federal government,
ever thought about, man,
we should do a different way of business.
And, or has it just been traditionally the way it is?
The advertisement is advertisement.
And that's the price, but things could change.
You know, when you come in,
had you getting a lot of flack over the years
in that business from that?
Well, you know, dealerships,
when cars first came out,
before there were window stickers,
before there were Manroni labels on cars,
my son said to me,
he said, when you started selling cars,
he said, well, how did you price them?
I said, it was based on the enthusiasm of the customer.
Okay, if the customer was enthusiastic about it,
the price went up.
If they weren't as enthusiastic, the price was lower.
So, this is just a situation that has evolved
over the history of the industry.
And yes, it's unfortunate, it shouldn't be this way.
I remember back in the late, I guess mid 1980s,
I was working managing an Nissan dealer ship,
and we had an old facility
and the dealer was building a new one.
And I said to him, I said,
I think we should do something different.
He said, what's that?
I said, I don't think we should have desks.
I think we should have coffee tables,
and we should have chairs, and we should have luxury.
And we shouldn't create all these artificial barriers
between the customer and the salesperson.
We should work collaboratively.
And he looked at me like I was crazy.
And I don't think I was crazy.
I think I was just ahead of my time.
So, I realized early on that the way that we sold cars
in this country is broken, and it's still broken.
It's better today than probably it's ever been.
It's moving in the right direction.
But my God, it needs to be so much better than it is.
Yeah, let's get the audience acquainted.
I gotta back up though a little bit
because you made the belly laugh there.
How many businesses still do that today?
That's their version of supply and demand.
If you were eager, if you got a Frank in the showroom
who's always eager, that price would up.
Do you, Susie, do you play,
are you the hardball person in your tribe?
Yes, I would have to say it.
Is Mark the one, is Mark like me?
The AC guy won't even talk to me anymore.
You're hardcore.
Yeah, he says, I only wanna deal with you more.
Ray, Ray, this is a silly question.
But psychologically, would you always aim
for the husband when the husband and wife came in?
Do you feel like you could work us a little better?
Well, honestly, one of the things
that I tried to teach salespeople
is you have to pay attention to who the cars were.
And if the cars for the wife talk to the wife,
not the husband.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, I can't tell you how many deals get lost
at dealerships every day
because the salesperson is chauvinistic
and insists upon talking to the husband
or says to a female customer when they come in.
Well, we can really get down to the brass tacks of this
when you bring your husband in.
Oh, gosh.
Well, this is why, yeah, this is why,
Susie, again, Ray, like you said, is getting better.
We've had a ton of women's empowerment shows
with a bunch of authorities.
And it's so true.
This is how the whole industry's got a bad rep.
That's so condescending and just disgusting
when, give an example,
we had an Aston Martin, a good client.
And she's doing, she wants to do the clutch.
It's an older Aston, my DB nine.
And, you know, it's a big repair.
And, you know, yada, yada, yada.
We dealt with who's driving mama's driving.
She loves that little DB nine.
She wants to invest in it.
She don't want to buy a new one.
And the husband, he stayed out of it.
You know, and that's that.
And, you know, imagine if one of my teams said,
ah, is your husband around?
Oh, yeah.
That is so disgusting.
But that was a time in an era that,
but not so much today.
Let's recap FTC, Federal Trade Commission.
Could you give us the bones Ray?
What, what was going on with the FTC?
And why is this maybe different than had it had been
in the past?
Well, the FTC came out and sent a letter
to 97 dealers and dealer groups,
suggesting that they may be violating some
of the regulations that the FTC has stopped.
And they, and they listed several of them.
And it was advertising the price
that does not reflect all required fees.
So the FTC says whatever price you're advertising,
it has to have whatever the fees are
that you require to complete that transaction.
So if, for instance, in Arizona,
every dealership out there has a dock fee,
the dock fee, I believe in Arizona,
somewhere around 750 bucks or $799.
Ray, Ray, I gotta stop you.
Cause a lot of people, and forgive me,
cause you're going to give us a wonderful answer on this.
Yes.
What the heck is a dock fee?
And what are we paying for?
I mean, cause some of us think it's like paper clip,
paper, documents, $700.
It's gotta be money.
Here's what a dock fee is.
A dock fee is 100% pure profit.
Okay, dealership owners refer to it as their yacht fee.
It's, that's why they can afford the yachts that they buy.
Because there is no cost associated with a dock fee.
It is just a fee that dealerships have created
in order to be able to add extra profit.
And for instance, in California,
dock fees are capped at $85.
In Florida, we have seen dock fees as high as $1,500.
Ooh, that's a big boat.
Oh yeah, he's in Miami now, he's got a big boat.
Wow, so that's like pure pork, pure pork.
Yes, absolutely 100%.
Wow.
And then some of the other things that the FTC went into,
you can't, the advertised price has to reflect rebates
or discounts that are available to everybody.
You can't advertise a price that includes,
say a recent college graduate rebate in that price,
because not everybody's going to be a recent college
graduate and qualify for that.
So they put all these programs and then they say,
well, it's like us advertising, like a break job,
some chintzy $99 or four wheels that we say most cars
to cover our tail and they come in and we're like,
oops, sorry, that's not your car.
Exactly, exactly.
Yeah, that's ridiculous.
And that's why I'm going to put a sign up that says,
free beer tomorrow.
Free beer tomorrow.
Yeah, right, right.
Yeah, I just find that Ray, you've been around,
I just find, why can't we, and I get it, small business
and I have a ton of panel discussions throughout
the aftermarket all over the country about this
and it's, why don't we just advertise straight?
People would, why are we so afraid
that our competition will be cheaper
when it's really, they're not our competition?
Is it like that in the dealer world?
Is it such a doggy dog world?
Is that what's going on?
Gotta get to sale.
Well, dealers think and third party auto websites,
listing websites, inventory websites.
In order to get somebody to click on the car
that they might be interested in,
you have to have the lowest price
or somebody's not going to click on it.
And to a certain degree, that's true.
Okay, and so many dealers rationalize,
well, if the bad dealers are doing it,
then we have to do it as well.
I so get that.
I mean, Susie, we've had so many conversations on this.
I don't know if you're familiar,
but I'm going to bring a name up.
He was iconic here in the Phoenix Valley
before they were bought out by AutoNation
and that was Lou Grubbs Chevrolet.
Sure, I'm familiar with Lou.
Just so you know, I lived there for 20 years.
I lived out there for 20 years.
My children were born in Mesa and Phoenix.
Oh, so you know Yvette then.
You know East Valley Institute of Technology.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, it was a court.
They built it across the street
from the original Sunpani Act.
That's right, Sunpani Act.
Oh, gosh, boy.
Where I worked, by the way.
Ray, you are such a world-traveled individual, Ray.
Wow.
But so here we go.
And I think about that.
We can't just pick on our sector,
Berber Corp. 999.
You get there, it's 1499.
The spa, 9999 and you get there and it's 14,000.
It seems like, I get it retail.
I have my own philosophy
and how we want to present our brand regarding service.
My wife had a clothing store and we used to argue
she would sell stuff with like 3,000% markup
and I couldn't sell an alternator with a $30 markup.
So we would compare notes and honey, how'd you do?
She's like, yeah, I sold three dresses for 3,000,
whatever she did.
And I'm like, yeah, the guy beat me up.
He wanted to bring in a junkyard alternator.
But it just seems like I don't think that's gonna change
and it'd be interesting to see how younger generations,
do you think younger generations are smarter than us
and understand, oh, there's something going on behind this?
Has it changed generationally?
Do younger folks just not want to deal
with this kind of flip-flop of a price, evasive pricing?
Yeah, I don't think it's just younger folks.
I think it's the vast majority of folks.
People are so used to being jerked around
when it comes to pricing at automobile dealers.
Doesn't mean they like it
and it doesn't mean that they really accepted it.
But what they would really prefer
and a perfect example of it is CarMax or Caravana.
Yeah.
People will pay more to buy a car
at either one of those locations
because it's stress-free.
Yep, it's a no-haggle situation.
There's no BS.
There's none of these games that are gonna be played.
So if CarMax can sell over a million used cars a year
and charge people more than somebody
could end up buying it for somewhere else,
that boom, that the people are willing to pay
to be treated the right way.
This is what I'm saying.
We decided as a business model ratio with you
and there are many small businesses that listen to as well.
Sure, there's price points.
Suzy, if I come into your place, I'm getting an experience.
I may pay a little more, but I'm there for an experience.
And I think any service department
or even if we're selling the widgets,
there's an experience about that and I agree.
I don't think it's generational specific,
but I did have to bring that up.
I brought up Lugra because Lugra was one of the first,
if you remember Ray, service you can hang your hat on
and the price is the price is the price
and we've done the research and this is what you pay
no more, no less.
He was, yeah.
He was pretty successful.
He was very successful.
I remember my mom used to love his commercials
because he was so dreamy looking.
He was dreamy.
I'll tell you, as a human being, as a leader,
he was a mentor to me and he would listen,
he would come back.
I was just a used car grunt.
I was 22 years old before we were into business in 95
and he would come back and check on us, roll up his sleeves.
How are you guys doing?
And that meant a lot to me because I was new to all.
You know when you're young and 20 something.
Ray, so this whole thing with the FTC
to get people more acquainted is essentially
we are done with the funding business.
Now what do dealerships have to do
with this sort of decree from our federal government?
Well, what they have to do or what they should do
is what the good dealerships do.
And that is that the price that it's advertised for online,
whether it be on their own website
or on cars.com or cars guru, whoever it is,
whatever that advertised price is,
that anybody can walk in and buy it for that price.
It can't be contingent upon,
oh well, you have to finance through us
or you have to have a trade in
or there's these additional fees.
No, what the advertised price,
the only thing that the advertised price in the future
should be is it's plus tax and tags.
That's it.
It's not plus, oh all of a sudden there's a window tint
or there's the desert protection package
or oh well there was a rebate that you don't qualify for.
And we already see some of the dealers are cleaning that up
and doing a better job of it.
And my son, God bless him with courage.
You know, we created, I say we because it's his business
and he runs it and I really other than being a spokesperson,
I don't have much to do with it.
But we created these artificial intelligence
negotiating agents that will negotiate on behalf
of a customer under an alias.
And we've done over 50,000 transactions,
interactions between our artificial intelligence agents
and dealerships where they provide us
with a printed out detailed out the door price
showing all the fees.
And we created from all that information
a dealer transparency index.
So you can look up a dealer and believe it or not,
most dealers are transparent.
It's the bad ones that are really bad
that make it bad for everybody.
But you can actually see the worksheets
that are associated with each quote.
And you can see how that compares to the original price
that the dealer was asking.
And you can, we break down what the average add-ons
are at particular dealerships,
how transparent they are with their pricing,
what the doxy is.
And so since we started gathering that information
and created the dealership transparency index,
it's like, well, you can't pay us to make it better.
You just have to make your advertising
and your prices transparent.
And the more transparent quotes we get from your dealership,
the higher your grade will be,
because we grade from A to F.
And I think that's a good,
I mean, if you think about the ways that you
can sort of set a standard for a business,
hello, transparency.
I mean, some people,
and I'll be honest,
this is something I fear is a small business.
I mean, we've been at it for a while,
there's always something new to learn,
but I always fear like something happened
where someone left, they paid, but they'll never come back.
I mean, that's probably a sentiment of all small business.
I'm by the way of what has transitioned
over the last solid eight to 10 years regarding reviews.
And we're very touchy about the reviews.
It's all organic.
As a restaurant owner,
I want to switch gears, Ray, to Susie.
Transparency means the world can review you.
And I get it, let's not talk to the crowd
that maybe got drunk and got it all wrong.
But you really, you want to address a two star,
or even a one star, where maybe the egg roll was not good.
And what's your fear, Susie,
since we're talking transparency,
would that be it, the deliverables,
or is it the employee that doesn't,
like he's not telling you that,
I mean, there's a lot of transparency.
So I did a bad thing.
I got a one star with no comments in there.
So I just said, did you forget the other four stars?
Well, that's the thing, if you're a small business
and you're new to small business,
what is our favorite lucky charm?
That's a humor.
You didn't give me any feedback.
Right, yeah, I've had that.
I would like to have had feedback.
Yeah, I've had that.
I was gonna say, I remember when I was running dealerships
and if I would get an email or a phone call from somebody,
where they just felt that we had let them down.
Yeah, I welcomed those conversations.
You know, every business likes to think
they're doing things perfectly.
And if customers don't tell us where we fell short,
we don't know any better.
So I needed that feedback from customers
when they would call and say, well, this happened
or that happened or so and so didn't get back to me
when they said they would.
I needed to know those things.
I couldn't make those improvements
if I didn't know those areas needed to be improved.
So I would never run away from a customer complaint
or even if it was a bad review,
I would wanna contact the customer
and find out where we failed,
what I could do better and how I could turn it
into a teaching moment for the staff.
Yeah, you can't grow.
We can get better.
So I had a recent one actually.
So on the door, as you enter,
it says that due to the rising costs,
we've raised the menu price $1.
It's respectable.
Just on entrees, not appetizers, not soup,
just on entrees.
That's transparent.
And then we even have a sticker on every single menu
as we put it down, it's right there on front.
So I got a review saying I'm a scam
because everything was $1 to $3 more than what the menu.
That's not true.
It was $1 and there was disclaimers out there.
Well, I think there's a phenomenon in your business.
And honestly, I've experienced it personally
and some of you may think I'm just nuts for bringing it up,
but when we are hungry and we have a sugar low,
we just become animals.
Oh, you're hangry.
You're hangry.
Yeah.
You better bring over some sides for me.
But my wife will slap me there.
And I know firsthand, Frank, because I've seen it.
Is that like that in the restaurant business?
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah.
Ray, I gotta switch gears
because this is a hot topic for many.
We understand the FTC, they want dealerships.
Those that are not, most of dealerships,
like you said, do a phenomenal job.
It's like we preach a preach.
A lot of mechanics, technicians, shops out there,
they're doing a good job.
They don't want to lose your business.
There's a few exceptions,
but it seems like folks get into a trap when they buy a car.
Yeah, they know how much it maybe-ish costs,
but they get stuck in this monthly payment mentality.
That is a problem, could it be?
That is a huge problem.
And the reason it's a problem,
if as a customer, all you do is concentrate
on that monthly payment, and that's all you care about,
more than what you're not caring about necessarily is
what you're actually being asked to pay for the car,
or how many years you're being asked to pay on that loan.
So if you concentrate on the payment,
you've taken your eyes off the real goal,
which is to work on an out-of-the-door price first.
And an out-of-the-door price is a discounted
and agreed-upon selling price,
with any deal-reinstalled accessories that you wanted,
not that they necessarily told you you had to have,
that you've agreed to, and then plus tax tags
and whatever other fees there might be,
as if you were actually going to write a check,
if, well, people actually knew what a check was.
But that's what you need to concentrate on.
And what you also need to know is
if you have a monthly payment in mind,
you have to know what that translates into
as far as an out-of-the-door price would be.
So if you want a payment of $500 a month,
and you don't want that payment to be $500 a month
for more than 60 months,
you have to know that perhaps you can't buy something
that's more than 20,000 or $25,000,
which means you should not be looking at vehicles
that are more than that.
So a lot of it has to do with understanding
what your monthly payment actually buys dollars and cents
wise, and then not allowing yourself
to look at things that are more than that.
And that's hard for people to do.
Be just joining us.
We got Ray Shevska, co-founder of CarEdge.com
for more details.
Lots of good education, of course, their YouTube channel.
You do have a section that I was just perusing,
which I thought was pretty powerful
because you talked about the add-ons.
I think as consumers, we often forget about
what's the cost of keeping that car per year.
Are we factoring insurance premiums?
I think we forget that.
And do you find a lot of people that,
okay, I want 500 a month.
Oh gosh, I got that used.
I mentioned Corvette, probably not a Corvette,
but there's a premium based upon a zip code
and where you live and what kind of car.
Next thing you know, wow, this is 30% more
than it was for my Kia Rio that I had.
So, yeah, we need to know the picture, yeah.
When people look at, before you start looking at a car,
you need to call an insurance agent and say,
gee, if I look at X, can you give me some idea
as to what my premium is going to be?
I can't tell you how many customers were shocked
after they bought the car,
after they signed all the paperwork
and they waited 15 days to contact their insurance agent
to let them know, oh, by the way,
I traded the old car and I got a new car
and then the insurance agent told them
what the new premium was.
And the customer was like, oh my God,
I had no idea it was going to go up like that.
And so, we encourage people when you're looking
to buy a car that no more than 10%
of your gross monthly income could go towards the car.
And that's not just the car payment,
that's fueling the car, that's maintaining the car,
that's paying for the insurance on the car.
So, if you make $5,000 a month,
then no more than $500 a month
should be going total to all those things.
Now, maybe in today's world,
with inflation and everything,
so you go up to 15% and it would be $750.
But you have to stay within those guidelines
because otherwise, many people find themselves
in desperate financial situations
because they overspend on a monthly basis.
And speaking of which, there's a huge,
it's not mentioned in the media much, Susie.
There's quite a few folks upside down in their cars.
In fact, I thought I read, Ray,
that trade-ins where folks still owe money
is almost like at record high on how much they owe.
Yes, almost 33% of people who trade in a car
have owe more on the car than what it's worth.
And the average amount today,
Edmunds just came out with a report,
the average amount of that negative equity
is nearly $7,200.
Wow.
So, wow, based upon the math,
that $500 a month number, let's say on a 25, it is hard.
Yeah, that is hard.
You almost have to start looking at 350
if you're gonna finance closer to a nickel
than add the difference to 7K.
Yeah, oh gosh.
Well, I'll be honest with you, Ray,
this is why us mechanics are doing really good in the Bayes.
People aren't buying, they're fixing what they got.
And we're happy about that.
Well, it's hard for people to afford
the average car payment on a used car today
is $550 a month for a 70-month loan.
The average car payment for a new car
is $803 a month.
Who can afford that?
Is this why we extended?
Because some folks were shocked
they were in the finance department
and they, for the first time, heard seven-year, eight-year.
I think there's some 10-year options.
I mean, I get it, we gotta keep an economy moving.
The new car market's a huge,
in fact, the automotive market period
is a huge part of our GDP nationally every year.
That's a big number.
Did the banks get clever and creative?
Did the dealership finance folks?
How did eight to 10-year loans come about?
Well, when I first started in the business in 1977,
if you financed a car,
most people didn't finance it for more than 24 months.
And then as the price of cars started going up,
the length of the loan started to get extended
because that was the only way that we figured out
to be able to keep people's payments
in a comfortable range.
And over the last five or six years,
where we have seen a tremendous spike
in average new car prices
and average transaction prices,
we have seen what was standard
for the longest time a 60-month loan
become a 72-month loan.
And then an 84-month loan.
And I believe it's almost 20% of all loans
that are written today are 84 months or longer.
Well, the sad reality of that
is when you put somebody into an 84-month loan,
and the average is that they wanna get out of that
and into a new car in three and a half
or four and a half years,
they can't because that negative equity number
will be even bigger.
So it's, we just, the industry figured out
that if they just keep extending terms
and just keep concentrating on payments,
that people won't really care.
But I think we've reached a point
where people have to care
because it's so unaffordable for so many people.
Well, it ends up turning,
let's just say after the manufacturer's warranty,
we see this often,
they get to a point where,
okay, now I gotta start to out of pocket pay
for some maintenance, some repairs.
And gosh, I think AAA says,
I wanna say that number's a lot higher,
but let's just call it 1,500 a year national average
for anything that's over 45,000, 50,000 miles
of tires maintenance,
that's not including a major engine.
If you own a European vehicle, double that number.
And you add that burden of what could be
another 150, 300 a month.
And then consumers like,
well, I'm just gonna trade it in and they find out,
there you go, there's that average of 70 some on 100.
This to me is a major recipe for disaster.
And I so feel, I'm a big champion of retail.
I love commerce.
And I just,
I don't see Susie coming down the road, Ray as well.
How do we look five and 10 years from now?
We gotta subscribe to our vehicles, that's a concept.
I think there's a few services.
Do we just get rid of the whole phenomenon
of wasting our money on one of the things
that we hardly ever use.
I think 7% of the day we use something as valuable
as the second most valuable thing we're gonna buy.
Is there any talk about changing and blowing that up?
I mean, we over time, of course,
because you put a lot of dealers out of business,
would it be better to come up with a subscription?
In other words, I pay 700 a month
and I can change up what I get every month
and give it back to you.
Is that viable?
And then call the lease?
It is, sort of, yeah, that sort of is, yeah.
My point is, Ray, I just don't see,
I'll be honest, I have an 08 F-150.
I have several vehicles, but I won't get rid of my truck
and I just feel a little salty.
To get another King Ranch, I gotta spend 80, 90.
80, 80, 90.
I just, and I got kids still to get to college
and I just, I'm okay with my 08 F-150.
It's got a little oil leak, you know,
and it's okay and it gets me where I need to go.
It smells like me and I think there's a big sentiment
of that, but I also on the same token feel,
it's huge commerce.
I mean, people don't realize that the average dealership
is feeding so many families.
It's a huge employment factor and so I don't know.
What my point is, is there any way to get more creative
other than a 20 year mortgage eventually on a car?
I don't know.
Well, I would hope so and I mean, if you look at it
with clear eyes today, what it looks like
is going to happen is there's about 13 to 15%
of the population that feels as if they can participate
in buying new vehicles.
And then the rest of us feel like we're stuck.
And I have the sense that as time goes on,
manufacturers are going to cater more and more
through that 13 to 15% of the population.
And the rest of us will have to look at robo taxis,
subscription services, short term rentals,
public transportation.
I mean, I think the chasm between those
who can afford transportation and those who can't
is getting wander by the day.
And I hear CEOs of all the major manufacturers say
we need to address affordability.
I know they keep saying it at Ford
and I know we're sitting here on April 22nd, 2026
and Ford's idea is, well, we hope to be able
to introduce a number of sub $40,000 vehicles by 2030.
Well, what are we doing for the next four years?
So I just think it's going to be wealthy folks
will be able to have the ability to have cars.
And the rest of us will have to look at other alternatives
and other avenues and there will be enough wealthy folks
that manufacturers will be able to survive.
Dealerships will probably be able to survive.
And mechanics, you guys are going to be able to rake it in
because it's going to look like Cuba
for the rest of us.
Yeah, the average age of vehicles gone up.
There's no doubt.
I think it's, we lived at, I think it was 11.7 years
and we hear it often in the garage
and it seemed like post, well, post COVID-ish,
you know, we had some free money given out
and everybody went wild and bought everything.
But I agree with you.
It's interesting you mentioned
we've got about a minute and a half.
You just said something that was very powerful.
And I was on a panel, Susie, I don't know if you know this
but boomer wealth is carrying the economy.
And I worry like, okay, then what?
Ray, you mentioned dealerships.
Well, we're going to target market the 15%.
Yes.
And then the rest of you figure it out
until we come up with something affordable in 30,
whatever, 2030.
Yeah, and I don't, you know, I don't really,
I mean, I hear all the manufacturers speak
about affordability.
And I know that the average asking prices
keep going up month over month.
So that their actions don't match their words.
Yeah.
Their words make for good public relations.
That's it.
Yeah.
Their actions say something completely different.
Yeah, Ray, I'm going to have you back again.
I'd love to have Zach on.
You guys are doing amazing things.
If you're listening, more details, caredge.com.
Ray, I love you, man, for hanging with us.
We're going to have you back.
It'll be my pleasure.
I'd love to join you again.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me.
Congratulations, nation.
Thank you, Susie.
We say every week, be safe, hug each other
and never forget to hug a mechanic.
About this episode
FTC pressure on dealer pricing takes center stage as Ray Shefski of CarEdge breaks down junk fees, dock fees, bait-and-switch advertising, and why transparency matters more than ever. The conversation digs into how dealerships manipulate monthly payments, stretch loans to 72 and 84 months, and leave buyers upside down on trade-ins. Ray also shares CarEdge’s dealer transparency index and practical buying advice, including watching the out-the-door price, insurance costs, and total monthly ownership burden.
FTC Dealer Transparency Rules: What Car Buyers Need to Know
WrenchNation Welcomes Ray Shefska of CarEdge
The car-buying landscape is changing—and consumers need to pay attention.
On our latest episode of WrenchNation, we sat down with Ray Shefska of CarEdge to break down the latest FTC dealership transparency mandates and what they could mean for everyday car buyers across America.
For years, many consumers have faced confusing pricing, surprise add-ons, hidden fees, and high-pressure tactics inside dealership finance offices. Now, the Federal Trade Commission is pushing for stronger transparency standards designed to create a clearer and fairer buying process.
What We Covered on the Show
How hidden fees can inflate the final vehicle price
Why “monthly payment shopping” can cost buyers thousands
Add-ons, warranties, and products consumers should question
What younger buyers expect from the vehicle purchase process
How dealership practices may evolve moving forward
Why informed buyers hold the power in today’s market
Why This Matters
Whether you’re buying new, used, leasing, or just researching your next move, understanding the fine print has never been more important. The old model of confusion and pressure is being challenged, and smart consumers who prepare before stepping onto the lot can save serious money.
Ray Shefska Brings Real Insight
Ray and the team at CarEdge have built a trusted voice in automotive consumer education—helping buyers understand pricing, negotiations, financing, trade-ins, and dealership tactics in plain English. Check out their Youtube channel with a plethora of great information : CareEdge YouTube