CAD files are digital design drawings/models used to plan parts before they’re built. Updating them helps engineers tweak how components fit and work together.
A solid axle connects the left and right wheels with one rigid bar. When one wheel hits a bump, the other wheel is affected too, so the ride can feel more “truck-like” than a setup where each wheel moves independently.
Wheelbase is the distance between the front and rear wheels. A shorter wheelbase often makes a vehicle feel quicker to turn, but it can also make it feel less smooth or stable over rough roads.
Independent suspension means each wheel can react to bumps on its own. That usually makes the ride smoother and helps the tires stay in contact with the road on rough surfaces.
Rack-and-pinion steering uses a gear rack that moves side-to-side with a pinion gear to turn the wheels. It’s commonly associated with more direct, precise steering feel compared with older steering designs like recirculating-ball systems.
Morrison is the name tied to the suspension/chassis work mentioned here. Think of it as the specialist providing the engineered parts that help a classic truck ride and handle more like a modern vehicle.
The Bronco is Ford’s off-road SUV. They’re talking about adjusting things like ride height and suspension so it can handle rough terrain better without feeling too harsh or unstable on regular roads.
Ride height is how high the car sits off the ground. Changing it can affect how stable the vehicle feels on normal roads and how easily it clears bumps and rocks off-road.
Ground clearance is how much space there is between the bottom of the vehicle and the ground. More clearance helps the car avoid hitting obstacles when you’re off-road.
Four-wheel independence means each wheel can react to bumps on its own. That usually helps the tires stay in contact with the road or trail for better control.
Fox Racing is a well-known off-road brand, especially for suspension and off-road equipment. They’re saying they’re switching suppliers for parts used on their Bronco build.
Ryger is a suspension brand. The hosts are saying they’re using Ryger suspension parts for their Bronco setup, and that Ryger is better known internationally than in the U.S.
KW is a suspension brand that’s more familiar to U.S. customers. The speaker is saying that’s the name people recognize, even though the current supplier is Ryger.
Limiter straps are suspension components used to prevent excessive suspension droop or bump travel. They help protect driveline angles, shocks, and other parts by limiting how far the suspension can move under extreme off-road articulation.
Nitrogen charge means the shock is pressurized with gas. That pressure helps the shock work more consistently when it’s getting hit repeatedly off-road.
Term
jounce bottom impact
Jounce is when the suspension compresses hard. “Bottom impact” is when it runs out of travel and hits its limit, so tuning this helps it feel less violent and reduces damage risk.
Steering architecture means the overall design of the steering system—how it’s set up to turn the wheels. Tweaking it can make the car track better and feel more predictable, especially off-road.
Term
49 inch architecture
“49 inch architecture” is a named design layout measured around a 49-inch dimension. They’re saying they’ll use that platform approach while changing steering design to improve the vehicle.
The Mustang GT 5.0 Coyote is a Ford Mustang with a 5.0-liter V8 engine. They’re mentioning it as the latest production benchmark their development is moving toward.
Ford Racing is Ford’s performance and racing parts group. The host is saying they wish Ford Racing would share more of the fine-print engineering details.
Person
he
The speaker refers to a specific person who left a “comfy job at Ford” to start Ravology, but the transcript segment doesn’t provide the person’s name. This is still relevant as a behind-the-scenes industry connection, but it can’t be precisely identified from the excerpt.
Suicide doors are doors that open from hinges at the back instead of the front. They look cool, but they’re harder to engineer safely on a custom car because the door has to latch and move correctly.
The B pillar is the metal post in the middle of the car’s body, between the front and rear door areas. If you change the body length or door layout, the B pillar location affects everything about how the doors and structure fit.
A carbon fiber roof cap is a lightweight roof piece made from carbon fiber. Because it’s lighter (especially up high), it can help the car handle better by improving balance and lowering how “top-heavy” it feels.
A hard top is a solid, fixed roof. It changes the car’s structure compared with a soft top, so the build has to be designed to be strong and properly supported.
Body in white means the car’s body shell is built and assembled, but it hasn’t been painted or finished yet. It’s an early stage where they check that everything lines up correctly before adding the final details.
A restomod is when someone takes a classic car and keeps the old-school vibe, but updates it with newer parts or technology. The host is saying there are a lot of shops doing this now, so it’s getting crowded.
“Owner retention” is basically how many people stick with a brand or keep buying from the same company. If owners aren’t happy, they’re more likely to switch to another builder or brand.
Paint “cure” is the chemical hardening process where coatings reach full durability and finish. If a builder tries to complete the job too quickly, the paint may not cure properly, leading to durability and appearance problems.
A “restomod” is a classic vehicle that’s updated with newer tech or upgrades. The point is to keep the old-school style, but make it nicer to live with—though it may still feel extreme or loud.
Term
generational investment
A “generational investment” means a company spends a lot of money over many years to develop a new generation of a vehicle. Big automakers can afford that kind of long-term spending, which smaller builders often can’t.
“Retro modern series” is the builder’s idea of making a modern truck feel like a classic. They start with a newer platform, then reshape it to match an older look and driving feel.
They’re starting with a 2025 Chevy Silverado that has a 5.3-liter V8 and four-wheel drive. That’s the “starting truck” they plan to modify into their retro-modern version.
The Chevrolet C10 is an older-style pickup truck. People often choose it as a starting point for restorations or custom builds. In the podcast, they mention C10s along with similar versions because they’re closely related and work well for project planning.
“DoD” is a fuel-saving feature that can shut off some cylinders when you don’t need full power. The host is saying that feature can cause issues, so they want to fix or remove the downsides.
Term
rebodding
“Rebodding” means changing the truck’s body so it looks like a different generation. Here, they’re using a modern truck underneath but giving it a classic pickup body style.
The chassis is the main structural frame of the vehicle. If you build using the wrong one, the parts won’t line up correctly and the proportions can look off.
“Derelict style” is a design choice where the truck looks intentionally rough or weathered. Instead of making it brand-new, the build keeps that rugged, lived-in vibe.
The Dodge Ram is a large pickup truck. The podcast mentions it in the context of how these trucks are similar in size and shape across many years. That kind of information helps people plan repairs or modifications.
Active suspension control is a system that automatically adjusts the shocks as conditions change. It helps the car stay steady on bumps and uneven roads.
ICON 4x4 is a company that specializes in building upgraded off-road trucks. They take a base vehicle and turn it into something more capable for serious trails and remote travel.
Term
direct feedback
“Direct feedback” here refers to customer input gathered straight from buyers rather than filtered through dealers or distributors. For custom builders, this can strongly influence how the next iteration is spec’d and engineered.
Term
dealers or distributions
“Dealers or distributions” describes the traditional retail and distribution middle layer between a manufacturer and customers. Bypassing them can let a builder communicate specs, lead times, and changes more directly with end clients.
“One-offs” are custom, one-time builds made to a specific customer’s requirements rather than a standardized production configuration. In specialty off-road work, one-offs are expensive because each vehicle requires unique engineering, fabrication, and parts sourcing.
“Amortized the engineering” means spreading the upfront cost of design and development across many vehicles so the per-vehicle cost drops. This is why production runs can hit lower unit pricing than truly custom one-off builds.
A connector is the plug that joins two parts of the car’s wiring together. If it’s cheap or poorly made, it can cause electrical glitches that are annoying to track down.
A wiring harness is basically the car’s electrical “wire bundle” that connects all the sensors, lights, and modules. In a custom build, better harnesses can mean fewer electrical problems and a cleaner, more reliable setup.
In this podcast moment, “Mitsubishi Endeavor” is used as a play on words. The speaker is talking about wiring harnesses and how expensive they can be. The focus is on the cost and complexity, not on explaining the SUV itself.
Icon is a company that builds custom trucks inspired by classics. The point they’re making is that these builds are meant to be personal and meaningful, not just trendy.
Ravology is a company mentioned as part of the group working with Icon. The conversation suggests they collaborate on building these custom vehicles, including where and how they’re made.
Barrett-Jackson is a famous auction for collector cars. The Columbus sale is one of their big events, where people go to buy and sell rare cars.
Concept
vertical
“Vertical” here is shorthand for vertical integration—controlling multiple stages of production in-house rather than relying on outside subcontractors. In custom vehicle building, that can improve quality control and consistency across the build.
Singer is a famous car company that takes classic Porsches and rebuilds them to a very high, custom standard. The discussion here is about Singer teaming up with other builders.
Term
trackable market
A “trackable market” is a market or demand metric you can measure and follow over time, rather than something vague. In the story, it’s used to describe a bet where the speaker had to move a measurable market indicator by a set amount.
The Toyota FJ 40 is a legendary off-road Land Cruiser from Toyota. It’s known for being tough and easy to work on, and the host says he bought them, fixed them up, and sold them.
In the podcast, “Ford Granada” is mentioned because of “Granada Hills,” which is a neighborhood name in Los Angeles. The speaker is talking about buying an FJ 40 from that area. It’s not really describing the Granada car itself in that moment.
The Ford F-250 is a big, tough pickup truck. He’s using it as an example of a vehicle he keeps personal items on—like a charm he’s had for years.
Term
pre-production fully functioning design study vehicles
A design study vehicle is an early prototype used to explore ideas before the final car is approved. When he says “fully functioning,” he means it wasn’t just a model—it could actually run and work like a real vehicle.
A focus group is a small group of people who give feedback on a product idea. Car companies use them to see what people like (or don’t like) before the final design is chosen.
Triple wipers means the car uses three wiper blades on the windshield. The point is better clearing of rain or debris, and here it’s mentioned as a signature design element.
The front grille surround is the decorative trim around the front grille. It helps define the car’s look, like the frame around the “face” of the vehicle.
CALTY is Toyota’s design group that helps shape how a car looks. In the story, it’s the team that took the early design and pushed it toward a different style.
Jim Farley is an auto industry executive. Here, he’s mentioned because he was involved with Toyota at the time of Ward’s project, before moving on to lead Ford.
A “SEMA mod” is a custom car project meant to show well at the SEMA show. The host is saying they want to do real engineering work, not just flashy looks.
Nike is a major company best known for shoes and apparel. In this story, they’re also described as having serious tools for turning designs into real products quickly.
Haas CNC machines are shop tools that use computers to cut and shape parts very precisely. The speaker is saying Nike has a lot of these machines available to build prototypes fast.
DARPA is a U.S. government agency that backs cutting-edge, experimental technology projects. In the story, it’s used to explain why some work is more conceptual than practical.
The Toyota FJ Cruiser is a Toyota SUV from the mid-2000s with a very boxy, rugged style. Here, the speaker is talking about what surprised him when he first saw a 2007 one—good and bad.
A power rear window is the back window that can open or close with a button or switch. If it’s removed, the airflow through the vehicle can get worse, causing more annoying wind noise.
Air buffeting is when wind inside the car gets turbulent and feels rough or noisy. It can happen when the car’s openings and airflow don’t work together well.
Ingress/egress awkwardness just means it’s awkward to get in and out of the car. With certain door designs, the open doors can block your path or make you stand in a weird spot.
3D modeling means making a digital 3D version of something on a computer. In this context, it’s about designing custom parts or looks before they’re produced.
3D printing is a way to make a physical object from a computer design by building it up in layers. They’re saying you could use it to create your own custom pieces.
Term
file sharing
File sharing just means sending digital files back and forth so multiple people can work on the same project. Here, they’re talking about improving collaboration for development.
Matte colors are paints/finishes that don’t shine like normal glossy paint. They look more flat and subdued, and the speaker is saying ICON chose matte finishes for a specific reason at first.
The Toyota FJ-40 is a famous old-school Land Cruiser from decades ago, known for its simple, rugged off-road design. Here, they’re saying their modern build is meant to look and feel like an updated version of that classic FJ-40 style.
“Mil-spec” means built to very strict, high-standard requirements—like what the military would demand. The host is saying their approach is engineered to be tough and precise, not just for looks.
It’s a special powder coating they bake onto the vehicle. The host is saying it’s designed to resist heat and harsh conditions, using a Teflon-based hybrid coating chemistry.
“Rocky Mountain gray” is the speaker’s named base color used as a starting point for their custom paint/coating program. Named colorways matter in enthusiast builds because they define the final look and can be tied to specific coating/pigment formulations.
Proprietary colors are custom, owned formulations—specific pigment recipes and/or coating mixes that the company controls. The speaker says they have 11 proprietary colors, implying repeatable, brand-specific finishes rather than generic off-the-shelf paint codes.
Term
bonnet shops
“Bonnet shops” is a derogatory term for bargain body/paint work that’s more about speed than quality. The host is saying they avoid that kind of shop and do their own higher-end process.
Robotically crimped refers to automated crimping of wire terminals, which improves consistency compared with hand assembly. Consistent crimps reduce the chance of loose connections that can cause voltage drops or intermittent failures.
Robotically soldered means the assembly is finished with automated soldering for a controlled, repeatable joint. This can improve electrical conductivity and mechanical stability at the connection point.
Cross link wires are insulated wires made with cross-linked polymer material, which improves heat resistance and durability. For custom builds, higher-grade insulation helps wiring survive engine-bay temperatures and long-term vibration.
Laser marked circuits means each wire/circuit is permanently labeled using a laser. This makes troubleshooting and service faster because technicians can identify the exact circuit without relying on vague or worn labels.
Key ports are integrated key-fob features that provide additional functions beyond standard key operation. In this build, the key ports are described as being laser-engraved with key functionality and also supplying a work light and a USB stick.
Term
USB stick that's integrated in the key fob
An integrated USB stick in the key fob is a built-in storage device used to carry vehicle-specific data. The speaker ties it to “care and feeding” by saying the electrical diagram and component mapping are fully mapped out beyond OEM detail.
OEMs means original equipment manufacturers—the companies that build the vehicle as it comes from the factory. The speaker claims their electrical documentation goes deeper than what OEMs typically provide.
Brembo makes high-performance brake parts. In this episode, they’re used as a key part of the build, and the speaker says the brake hardware is tailored to each vehicle.
LIVE
You know, when we started Icon, we were kind of the only idiots in the space.
The bullshit story was for when media asked when we first launched was, and it's, I mean,
it's factual, but it's total fabrication.
Now will I just shut up and answer your question?
I think it's hideous.
When you first started the episode, Greg, you mentioned something that's critical to
me.
One thing I learned very quickly when interviewing Jonathan that he has a ton of incredible sound
bites that I could pull out of the interview.
So that was just the taste of what's to come in this interview with Jonathan Ward of Icon.
It was a wonderful interview.
I really, really enjoyed it.
And between the time that I actually recorded this and today I had a chance to go to LA
for a book event and I was able to visit his facility, which was really, really cool.
He was not there at the time, but I did get some pictures.
So if you're watching on YouTube, all the pictures I could share were from the lobby.
Everything else in the back was customer cars.
So that I was not allowed to take pictures unless it was up close in detail.
So you'll see quite a few pictures of their mascot, the lizard and some other cool things
as I was able to take some cool pictures.
So just a really enjoyable interview.
Check out my sponsors and we'll have the interview coming up here shortly.
Parastyle Wealth Advisory Services offer through New Edge Advisors LLC, a registered
investment advisor.
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I guess it's been too long.
Well, it's a crazy year for us because we have so many initiatives rolling forward.
I don't know why we're doing them all at the same time, but I think it was one of those
things where I already had some ideas cooking in my brain.
So for example, for the Bronco, having built a couple hundred of them, we do small changes
over time, refining CAD files, evolving trim, responding to client inquiries for new perversions
of modernity.
But one notable thing I wanted to do in response to so many clients, shocking number, being
like, you know what, I just dig the style of the early Broncos.
And I honestly, I'm not going to be doing anything more than dirt roads to the favorite
hiking or fishing spots.
And I don't want it to drive like a truck.
So my inside voice is going, well, it is a two ton solid axle, short wheel based vehicle.
And while we do have a talented team, we are not magicians.
So it is going to be truck like, if not, you know, evolved and more.
You can only do so much.
Yeah.
I mean, just it's an architectural challenge.
It sort of is what it is.
And not to say that our four wheel drive Broncos are like a massive evolution of the original
feel and safety.
But so anyway, instead of fighting them, I thought, you know what, this actually could
be nifty. So we had already developed a wonderful four wheel independent suspension chassis
with rack and pinion steering and other refinements that is distinctly more of a car like ride.
So we had developed that for 47 to 53 Chevy pickups with our Morrison.
So we actually decided to go for it.
So we're going to be coming out.
We haven't announced yet, but coming out soon with a more conservative traditional
stance about literally about five inches lower ride height than our existing Bronco
with significant ground clearance, rack and pinion, four wheel independence.
So I'm pretty excited about that.
The first proto is active in the shop should be done soon.
Then we while we're doing that talk about the cause and effect and we're like,
well, maybe it's time to think about integrating some new ideas for the Bronco
chassis that make it even more capable off road and hopefully also have a slightly
more positive impact on the on road manners.
So we're we're basically drafting the first prototype of a whole bunch of new initiatives
related to like, you know, recently we left Fox Racing and partnered with Ryger,
which isn't well known in the US, but on the world stage, they're very highly respected.
In the US, people know their sister line for two wheel drive called KW, of course.
So Ryger now makes icon specific suspension for us.
But, you know, we're going to add like limiter straps and nitrogen charge down
jounce bottom impact.
We're exploring working with Curry using the 49 inch architecture, different
steering architecture, finally evolving to the current production Mustang GT
5.0 Coyote, which is kind of a pain in the ass because Ford Racing never tells you all
the subtleties that occur.
But with our sister brand over at Ravology, it makes sense because we're both evolving
at the same time. And as always, we've been good friends for years.
In fact, he blames me for his bad career decision, leaving his comfy job at Ford to
start Ravology. And so anyway, he's a great co-conspirator.
So that will help each other through that.
We also were doing a four door version of the Gen 1 Bronco.
We're certainly not the first, but all the ones I've seen before are like cut and paste
of aftermarket parts and like they'll do suicide doors or the pairs of front doors.
And it's just wrong dimensionally, which I get because it's a real pain in the butt to do
properly because you actually want to rescale to about 10% after what would be in the two door,
the B pillar.
And then you want to build custom doors that are kind of like 58 scale with a different
hem profile. You want to completely redesign the floor and we wanted it to be a hard top for
sure because no one's done a hard top version. So we're doing a carbon fiber roof cap to help
optimize weight distribution. And that's currently a body in white here at the shop. And I'm super
stoked about it. I kind of love what we do. So I do talk a bit, but you have.
Oh, you gave me so much right there.
Well, I got one more. So give me one more and then I'll ask one more and probably the most notable
than what I'm most excited about. You know, when we started icon, we were kind of the only idiots
in the space. Everyone was like, wait, you're going to do what to only what and ask for how much?
Like good luck, like literally in our old industrial multi-tenant complex.
We discovered that our neighbors had a bedding pool on a grease board of which month we were
going to tank. Now they're all long gone. And we're still here. I should have gotten the
whatever the bed levy was, but oh, well. So anyway, now flash forward 20 plus years.
I'd argue the market is somewhat oversaturated with pro, you know, RESTOMOD shops. And many of
them really truly inspire me and we have relationships with many, many, many globally.
And it's super cool in one hand to see this subculture really grow and go and see that customers
are actually willing to blow the kind of money and takes to build one correctly. On the less
inspiring side of things is the fact that so many of them are basically money grabs from
unscrupulous shops that you could literally build the vehicle on Amazon in the fit and finish and
the owner retention and it's just bad. And I think that that hurts the entire industry.
So I'm happy to see Darwin is starting to show up mostly in the form of a weak economy.
And several have exited the space. But there's several others that it's just like
down to a color code. They'll just copy the latest thing that we dropped. And I guess I
shouldn't be butthurt about that, but I am. So you're right. I got busy like undercutting and
copying us like we're just like icon, but we build in 10 weeks. Dude, you know, Greg, you can't get
quality paint to cure in 10 weeks. So it's just a train wreck. So we just keep pushing forward,
evolving, pushing the envelope further. The majority of our vehicles, you can't buy our chassis,
you can't buy our tram, you can't buy our knobs, you can't buy our gauges, you can't buy our interior
bits. We machine the hell out of everything. I hate plastic. So we're just staying in our lane
and still finding the right audience. But while everyone's copying, I've had an idea and I've
explored it a little bit in the past. I wanted to revisit the entire recipe. Because at the end of
the day, I think without exception, the best rest of mods in the world, you kind of have to be in
the mood to drive. It's howdy as hell. Maybe it's too much horsepower, one could argue. I totally
agree. It's loud. It's too in your face. It's too low. So I wanted to say, at some point,
us as pro builders, I think you have to be doing it long enough to divorce yourself from your ego
enough to acknowledge that you can never engineer something to the level of a modern OEM high volume
platform, which is literally on a generational investment, hundreds of millions. And then you
look that that's evolving from decades of growth in that space with that particular model. So
that's the new, what we're calling the retro modern series, starting with
the 72 Chevy pickups. And we're doing C10s, K10s, C20s, K20s. And the idea is we just take a 2025
Silverado with the 5.3 V8 four-wheel drive, ABS, hill hole, all the perversions of modernity.
We get rid of some of the problematic like the DoD issues with that particular platform
and make it the best it can be. And now you've got, we're basically rebodding 2025 Chevy pickups
with the C generation. And it just freaks your head out because it doesn't behave how it looks.
It is a new vehicle experience. And I think the first rest of mod, certainly I'm guilty of
and able to say that threatens your modern, soulless daily driver, like literally just go.
There's no drama. It idols at 500 RPM. It's got all the bells and whistles and creature comforts,
but it's all dressed and hidden. Yeah. So we just announced that last week. And we're doing it as a
limited run. And we're almost sold out. So we're stoked. So how does that? That's a touchy thing
to do because the few people that have attempted and they're really hack jobs is trying to get the
proportions correct based on a different chassis. Totally. So yeah, that kills me when I see that.
And you and I both could rattle off the list. No, we're like, we're even doing them in our
known, what we call our derelict style. So like, that's cool. Literally, it's the original paint
on the vehicle. So we're doing absolutely zero dimensional modifications to the body.
We're doing custom forged wheels that help correct the track width, but it's minimal.
But the cool thing about American pickups is dimensionally across the board. I mean, Dodge Ram
Ford and Chevy since the late 1960s, the track widths and wheelbase are all but identical.
Wow. And the new platforms for efficiency, you know, they fishmouth weld the chassis
in the horizontal straight plane about midship. So the actual frame is designed to slide in and
out and then get welded up to address the different cab and bed configurations.
But track width and everything else was just perfect. And the engine bays are so stupid huge.
We've been able to engineer it. So it still appears as when you lift the hood, everything is where it
would be in the new Chevy Silverado platform. So therefore, all service ability, the QR codes on
every part. And most importantly, and pan in our but Lee, the CAN bus architecture is engineered
properly so that you can go to the dealer, you can get E Prom flash updates. The electrical system
still believes it's in its native platform. I mean, you know, it's I killed like the seatbelt
gong, just because they annoy the piss out of everybody. Yeah. And I killed the governor at
98 miles an hour was on a rally. We were keeping up with all it was a Porsche rally
through the desert and the canyons with, you know, the active suspension control and everything we
were like, they couldn't shake us. Then we hit the open desert. And the governor kicked in. So
like, dammit, I'm going to have to hack that. Yeah. Now you said something. Two things that are
interesting is you mentioned the changes you've recently made based on customer demand. And
then you also mentioned launching the original icon, FJ, how people thought you're crazy. So
when you launched the initial one, was it kind of like Steve Jobs, you know, with the iPhone,
he's like, I'm going to make what people don't know they want. Was it kind of that attitude?
Yeah. And I've kind of been guilty of that mostly throughout my career. I mean, when we started
the first brand TLC, my wife and I, who's still my partner here and in life,
everyone thought we were nuts. Like them old Toyota or Jeeps, but why? But personally,
having traveled over 50 countries, the most remote locale, the harshest situations where
your vehicle literally is the difference between living or dying. There were always early actions.
Absolutely. So no, everything starts with a passion and a certain bug gets up my butt for
a particular platform and I roll forward. So in the beginning, yeah, there was no market. So
we had to just go with our gut and pray for the best. You know, nowadays with, we've got about
500 vehicles delivered specifically through icon TLC is way more. Now we have some so much direct
feedback and we don't deal with dealers or distributions. So we have relationships with
all our clients and we'd be absolute idiots not to hear their input. The only input I can address,
which is probably the most common one, is why can't you do this for 100 grand or 80 grand or 60 grand?
And you know, what I think is hard for people to understand and I'm still getting my head around
is the cost of doing business today and running a proper business, paying good living wages with
full benefits 401k and God forbid trying to run a proper business in Los Angeles,
shit's expensive. It just is. And especially our one-offs. I mean, I literally try and talk
people out of them because even the production icons, you know, starting roughly just under 300
grand, that price point's only possible because we amortized the engineering over hundreds of vehicles.
But yep, is what it is. And it's just, it doesn't make sense. Like the scale
we'd have to gain to get a notable price reduction,
just doesn't make sense. It's just not doable. And frankly, I'd like cutting corners and
hoaring out and hiding things. There's plenty of shops doing that and I'm only good if I'm
committed and locked to the founding ethos of what I'm here to do because no one needs any of
this crap. So if we're going to do it, make it something, make it an heirloom, make it functioning
sculpture in essence, you know, and put heart and soul in every, like when you first started the
episode, Greg, you mentioned something that's critical to me is you crawl around it. You look at
all the nuances, you absorb them and you understand them. That's where the beauty is. Like sometimes
a client will have a truck for years and they go, hey, I dropped my keys and then I had to crawl
under the truck and I looked up and man, that connector is badass. And like, oh, you used the
Deutschland aerospace, you didn't, you know, like our wiring harness is a five digit endeavor.
There's $600 harnesses on the market that everyone uses, but they suck. Right. Yeah. So I don't know,
at some point I'm an idiot, but thus far, at least I'm an idiot that is appreciated by funded
idiots like me who like see the value in those details. Yeah, I love, I pulled a quote from
your website and I love it. It's a, I guess kind of your mantra. It's for real, not for show.
Icon creations are not a fashion statement. They are memory makers. Model vehicles have all
but lost your unique personality. They are focus group driven based on shareholder profitability
and playing it safe enough already. That is why we created Icon. So I think that sums up exactly
what you just said, right? Yep. Cheers to that. Yeah. That's incredible. Now, what's the relationship
with Ravology because I'm a huge Mustang Shelby guy. I got a K code convertible in my garage right
now. I met them last week at the Barrett Jackson Columbus sale. What's the relationship there?
Because those cars pretty much are the modern Mustangs, but they look like the old Shelby's
with a lot of cool stuff going on. So we're actually a trio of companies and how far that goes,
there's a lot of interesting conversations going on, including building a common shared
monster facility where we are not relying on any subcontractors and share all the vertical
efficiencies. But Ravology, Icon and Singer are now a collective. I had heard about the Ravology
and Singer. I didn't know that Icon was a part of that as well. Wow. None of us talk about it too
much because I don't want it to be sort of misconstrued because we still all have our
dedicated teams leadership. Nothing's changed there. It's just there's a whole new world of
possibilities, both from not going to pebble and all the overrun bling bling too much noise,
like doing our own curated events, maybe distribution concepts, etc. So we're pretty
excited. It's fairly recent news. Yeah. No, that's fantastic. That's very, very cool. Now,
I got so many questions for you. So real quick, tell us about your mascot a little. Is it a
gecko? Is it a lizard? Tell us how that came about. So it's a California bluebelly lizard.
And the real story is many, many years ago when I was still in another career and hating it and
transitioning, I made a bet at a USC business class with the professor and another student
because there was this new internet thing coming on board. And I was like, you know,
I think with this internet situation, if you can control supply, you can now create demand.
And they're all like, ah, you're an idiot. No. So basically turned into a fairly drunken
afterclass at a bar bet where I was given two quarters to drive a trackable market up 30 points.
So I had the time and the money. So it was road tip time. Me and occasionally my wife,
but always my old Labrador Walter, I would hit the road and my old 65 F 250. And I was just
buying up all the good FJ 40s, bringing them back, dialing them in, putting them back on the
market. I went back to collect on that bet. They said, oh, we were joking. I was like, oh, well,
shit, I wasn't, and I think I'm onto something here. So quit my job, talk my wife into quitting
her job. And that was the beginning of our automotive adventures. But at that time,
buying an FJ 40 out of Granada Hills here in the San Fernando Valley of LA,
it was one of those deals where it's like grandpa's house selling the cars that are in the garage,
we're going to clean up the house, we're going to get rid of all this crap. And they were processing
this little estate and on the street next to the trash can was an old fireplace screen.
And upon it was this incredibly well sculpted little lizard. And I asked the lady, I said,
you used to throw that away? Do you mind? She said, yeah, we're throwing away. So I
tend snipped it off and put it same day on the toolbox of my F 250. And over the decades,
it's always sort of been like my St. Christopher, right? Like it's always gone with me on every
one of my personal vehicles. And then when we started icon, I'm as a brand geek, I think icons
you know, are important for a brand. So that was already sort of part of my personal story.
The bullshit story was for when media asked when we first launched was, and it's, I mean, it's,
it's factual, but it's total fabrication, which is when you're out on the trail well beyond
where everyone else can make it in your icon, especially in the Southwest, the California
Bluebelly lizard is still with you on the trail. So they're adaptive, they're ubiquitous. They're
just super clever little buggers. So it just fit the brand. So a jeweler buddy of mine,
lost wax casts those and we hand patina them and finish them. They're always on everything we build.
Yeah, I love them. It's so cool. Such a cool little guy. Does he have a name?
Nope.
Now, one thing outside. I didn't realize this. you were involved in the 2007
FJ Cruiser. Do you have a moment to talk about that? Because I got a 2014 in my garage. I've been
driving for over 10 years. Oh, cool. Yeah. So I was, I designed and built the first three
pre-production fully functioning design study vehicles for Toyota at the request of Accio
Toyota in house, which is pretty nuts. And then it went through the focus groups in all the gears
of modern corporate automotive structure. So I think really the only elements that I have
a significant part in was the triple wipers and the front grill surround. Otherwise, they,
you know, turned right once it went to Calty and did more of a, I don't know, like a PlayStation
modern reinterpretation kind of anime. And they're killer. I'm glad Toyota is bringing them back.
I never understood why they canned them. And then I had the same opportunity because Jim Farley
was on the team at Toyota when I did that job. And then when Jim split and went to run forward,
we had stayed in touch. And I got a, I don't remember a text or an email from Jim many years
later. And he says, Hey, we're going to finally bring back the Bronco. So would you build us like
a SEMA mod? You know, and I said, Hell yes. In fact, that's a very common popular request.
Because at the time, I kind of only offered the FJ series. So I said, Yeah, but I don't want to build
the usual SEMA bling bubblegum duct tape. Like I actually want to fully engineer it.
And I'm going to look closer at SEMA. I'm going to look closer at SEMA this year,
bubblegum duct tape. I'm going to look for it. I'll count on it. It's there. Bring a magnet.
You know, I wanted to really properly engineer it. So I went back to Jim and said, Hell yes, I will.
I don't need your money. I'd love CAD support, engineering, collab access, and full archive
access. And then around that time, the CEO of Nike had become a client and friend. And we had
gone up to display Nike. I don't know if they still do it, but now that Elliot's the new CEO is
wonderful human annual TLC client. Culturally, I expect he will bring it back. So anyway,
they used to do this killer design show at the Beaverton campus once a year. And it was literally
defined just cool stuff that their designers loved. And generally, there were no boundaries.
So be automotive, be audiophile, be watches, be furniture, just as like a inspiration for the
entire design culture at Nike. And the CEO at the Dime said, you know, if you ever have a project
that'll go from a sketch to tangible physical product in under a year, please let me know.
Because they were experiencing a lot of turnover, which happens at the automotive world very frequently,
because especially in design, by the time it made it to market, the designer had no emotional
connection with the prop. So at Nike, they have this incredible underground bunker that just has
machines that if you called Haas C&Cs to buy, they go, yeah, those don't exist. And like, literally,
they have 10 of them in this underground studio. So yeah, we're losing too many guys there because
a lot of it is DARPA or conceptual. So if you ever have something, let us know.
So shortly after that's when Farley called in Greenlit the first Bronco. So I turned right
around and called Mark at Nike. And I'm like, well, you asked and I do. So do you want to play?
So that's why all our Broncos have the Nike swoosh on the data tag. Because Nike helped us
immensely from supplier access to very advanced machining and surface coating.
That's a very wise request, I would say. Yeah, and we still work with them and they still like,
our YKK Marine rated zippers. If I call YKK, they'd be like, how many piss off?
Yeah. If I do it through Nike, it's a sample order is what I need for an entire production year.
So it's out. And then years later, I worked for gosh, about five years on the design team
for the new Bronco as well. Now, the first time you saw 2007, FJ Cruiser in person,
what was, what were you most impressed by and what were your least impressed by?
I was super pissed that the pencil pushers killed our power rear window in the 11th hour to save
like 17 bucks. The air buffeting in the vehicle is just absurd without having that flow out the
rear as you probably, I open the window every once in a while, just drive like that. And you know
what? I'm, I love me suicide doors. If we're talking about a 33 Ford three window or an early
Fayette in or basically anything vintage, especially if two door suicide, second row
doors fundamentally make no sense to me because if you've got someone back there
and the front doors are open and the rear doors are open, you're standing there nose to nose with
nowhere to go. Like the ingress egress awkwardness is just, I just never got my head around that.
I mean, you know, again, if it's on a Lincoln continental or something, you can make sense of
it, but right, right. Or if they're both suey on one side, then great, you both have a clear way
to go. But yeah, yeah, it's so funny to say that because I love mine, but the two biggest headaches
are the suicide doors trying to end in the back tailgate, the way it opens. If you're trying to
load luggage, I can't do it. You know, I have to make sure that's totally clear. Like at the
airport, you don't have to park a certain way. Yeah. You have to open it before you fully park.
Yeah. And the other thing, first time I grabbed the door handle, that door handle is hollow plastic
and I'm sure you think this way is like whatever the client touches. Well, you're like this all
the way throughout, but whether they touch it or not, but whatever the client touches must absolutely
be the finest quality material because that gives you the impression of the rest of the vehicle,
right? Well, like look at slate. I mean, the entire vehicle is plastic, but that door handle
that's your first handshake, your first engage with the vehicle is metal. And I drove one of
those last week. I got to say, I'm quite shockingly impressed at the price point. I think it's
pretty, pretty, it's exactly what the OEMs need in regards to a true punch in the face to give us
back to non IT riddled temporary complexity and like just fundamentally a clean slate simple.
And I think it's going to be pretty wild, right? Like maybe too soon for this year, but probably
not. It's like when the Bronco came out, when the FJ came out, man, when Slates launched,
SEMA is just going to be a slate showroom. It's going to bring so much new blood and product
into the aftermarket. I think it's going to be remarkable. Yeah, that is going to be cool.
Just talking about that, the custom customized option customization options on that, that would
be pretty cool. People really go crazy. Yeah. And I think they're going to even have the template
so you can do your own 3D, you know, modeling and printing and all that kind of stuff. So that is
yeah, I met with their whole team last week and they even have like a head of collaborations who's
lovely. So like culturally, they're very inviting and they're talking about doing a novel
level of file sharing for development, which would be great.
Yeah, that's amazing. Well, one other question I wanted to ask you is now this could be wrong,
but I interviewed Johnny Lieberman years ago and somehow it came up that I was just like, you know,
I love the icons. I wish there was more of a color palette, but then he said, at least originally,
because I see you have many more colors available now, but there was a very strategic reason why you
had kind of the matte colors. Is that correct? Can you tell? Yeah. So okay, so after I did the
after cruiser project for Toyota and I saw the direction production was going, I found myself
literally in bed at night before I went to sleep, continuing the thought of what if I did this concept
without any external involvement, what would I see as the modern form of the FJ-40?
And it literally was keeping me up at night. I finally talked to my wife into blowing all the
money we had made on the Toyota job, sequestered a very small team in a separate section of our
old shop, turned up the music, turned off the phone, got it out of my head into CAD and then
physically built, then it was done. I was quite worried because again at that time, like no one
was doing this this way and I felt it was going to be very important to get people to stop and
understand this is a new approach. So therefore that gave birth to what we now call our new school
design package, which frankly, it was probably more than 10 years before we launched old school,
which got back into more under the radar retro, but new school was purposely,
I mean, not in your face, but technical, industrial machined, like almost mil-spec and that made
people stop and it made it easier for me to digest the sort of the DNA, the theology behind the brand.
Also, I hate body shops and here we are legally not able to internalize
body and paint. There's no more permits being given in the region. So I had visited the Disney
hall while it was under construction, had some friends on the architectural firm,
and they were giving me a hard hat tour before all the stainless exterior veneers were up,
all the basically like super ligera infrastructure that those attached to was up,
and I was checking out the coating on it and I was thinking, damn, this stuff is never going to get
clean. Microbial, UV, bacterial, crazy temperature swings, I just got to be some pretty sexy coating.
So I researched it and it turned out Cardinal coatings, which is one of the America's oldest
coatings companies in paint and powder coat, had engineered this specific Teflon polyester
hybrid SDIC powder. So I reached out to them and said, hey, have you ever thought,
you know, maybe we could do car bodies and they're like, no, they can't handle the heat of the oven.
But our FJ bodies are 50, 52, H32, 530 seconds, they're literally built by a shipwright.
So I'm like, no, ours can, we're good to go, let's hit the oven. So we piggybacked on the chemical
engineering and then developed our own pigments and yet started with our classic Rocky Mountain gray.
Now, memory check, I think we have 11 proprietary colors and then we also have the ability to
do custom colors for people and we avoid bonnet shops and it's literally 10 times
the durability of any conventional paints. Yeah. Yeah, once he told me the story,
it wasn't as detailed as yours. I was like, all right, I got a whole new appreciation
for that color or that color palette. Yeah. Now, is there a single component most people
never noticed that you're especially proud of on any of the builds? Because I know you're doing
stuff that maybe other folks aren't, you know, you're to that degree, whether it's a bolt, a knob,
or spring. Yes, yes, and yes. I mean, I mentioned it before, but yeah, it's all ends up pretty
much hidden. But our electrical system, I mean, it's built by a military aerospace supplier.
It runs triple seal connectors. It is robotically crimped and then robotically soldered. We use
the highest grade cross link wires. We use rail car, marine aerospace connectors. It is like
it's laser marked every single circuit. And then in every vehicle, we use these cool things called
key ports. So clients will get a conventional set of keys, but then they also get these key ports,
which it's lasered into it the functionality of each key, plus they get a work light. And most
critically, they get a USB stick that's integrated in the key fob. So now all care and feeding,
the entire electrical diagram fully mapped out to more detail than OEMs. I don't think they even
do that anymore. Care and feeding break in a non encrypted spreadsheet of all of our componentry
should we implode clients can search out and connect with our vendors directly all the way
through to our proprietary Brembo brakes. That's another thing that the brakes are batshit. I
am a huge fan of everyone's always focused on horsepower, but you need woe to match your go.
So we've been partnering with Brembo for a long time now. And our calipers and rotors
are specific to us and specific to each vehicle in our lineup. Even the wheelbase
means like between an FJ 40 and our six passenger FJ 44, the metering and valving is different.
So like our front rotors are like pro football, like batshit Brembo's with two piece hat,
vented rotors. I mean it's just sexy and then we use some of the new evolution of hydro boost
instead of vacuum for our masters. And then it's death by a thousand paper cuts. It's just all
that cool stuff that if you know you know and you get in there and you look around,
it's a unique experience because you're not discovering shortcuts and zip ties and corners
cut where the builder didn't think the client would care or notice. You keep feeling back layers of
the onion and seeing more evidence of care and quality and give a damn. Yeah, that's awesome.
Well, I get to talk to you forever. I do have three more questions. Are you up for three more
questions? Sure. Okay. So I love the fact that you're not about just car design or sport you design.
I've watched like you on Leno's where you're talking about, I think you had like a leather
something or other you made by yourself. You had like this incredible watch you made.
So between like industrial design, architecture, aviation, where do your best ideas come from?
Yes. I'll be above. To me, you don't go to a art center or CCS. You don't go to a design school
because you're like, gee, I want to be it. I want to figure out how to be a designer. Like you're
either born that goober or who is inspired by everything you see. And maybe a little OCD of
like, that's crooked. You have to fix it before you can move on with your life and be happy.
But it's just nuance and textures and materials and innovation, having not any degrees or any
proper training. I've done a console. In fact, I'm enrolled in two classes right now,
continuing my education. But I've just, I've been a serial craftsman my entire life.
And I think not knowing any better because I didn't have blinders put on me. So I'd comply
in corporate silos of design. That's turned into my secret power. So I'll be in an elevator and a
cool building and checking out the stainless surfacing on the elevator. And I'll go find the
maintenance manager and find out who that supplier is. And that's a true story that led to the
interesting ribbed dimensional stainless and the interiors on the Broncos. Our sun visors
come from aerospace because a client was showing me this new cool jet. And I could care less about
all the pleather and marble and crap. But I went up to the cockpit and was like,
now that's a sun visor. What's up with that? So they'd never done land traveling vehicles,
but I'm like, they're absolutely perfect. Like, so our visors are the same thing that are in
LearJets and on on. So no, I have a, I do apparel design and manufacture. I make all my
clothes head to toe. I make most of my own shoes. I make my own hats, all my bags. So I have a little
apparel brand that's just sort of pre psychotherapy called campfirecoats.com with all vintage findings
and vintage textiles or rare dead stock contemporary textiles. Then I have a leather goods brand
called J word collection.com. And yeah, I'm designing my own car barn based on an 1852
Dutch canted beam English barn. I salvaged out of upstate New York and designed my friend's
car collection buildings and interiors. Right now I'm just deep, deep into the subculture of
Petrolania or linear. I'm restoring a 1940s flying a gas station that was located in a small
central California town called the task of Darrow. And I'm doing it was zero reproductions as a
fully functioning lived in working station. That's sort of theoretically our station opened in
October 48. So we're restoring it as if it's a moment in time 51. But down to inventory and
pumps and the ding ding bell when you drive over the airline like, Oh my God, there's so much fun.
Now this was not on my list of questions to ask you, but it's just come because you've
mentioned so much about design. I even asked this question. What are your thoughts on the Ferrari
Luce? You know, I don't want to get in trouble because Mark and Johnny are our icon clients
and I have the highest faith in them. I think it's weird that Johnny's getting blamed for the
exterior. My understanding is Johnny was all about the UX and interior, which I think kicks
ass. Right, right. And then the only feeble defense I would have for Ferrari is again,
I don't think people understand the scale and timeline. And they started they press go on that
when it seemed industry critical to not just address the foresee, hey, look, at least they didn't
do a SUV. Oh wait, they did anyway. Yeah, yeah, my bad. But the electric was the future. Right.
So what are they going to do years into development? They're going to throw it in the trash.
Now, will I just shut up and answer your question? I think it's hideous. I take a lucid 10 to one.
But honestly, I'm not very pro electric myself. If I had more money than God and a fleet of vehicles,
it would make sense to me. But I'm actually more excited despite I mean, we do an all wheel drive
transmission transfer caseless EV version of our Bronco that I'm quite proud of our first
production units just getting completed right now. But I honestly feel like electric for me,
it'd be more like a slate. So it's utility, it's low cost, boom, boom, run your specific kind of
mission and party on. But when I see poor bastards stuck at Charge America, or stations, you know,
on the way to Vegas or on a road trip, like, I would be Mr. range anxiety. I'm out.
Well, I do have one last question for you. So just look in the future 50 years from now,
in a museum, there's the original Toyota FJ next to one of your cars, builds.
What would you say? What do you hope the response is?
Honestly, that's like one of my few sort of, you know, what's what's how will this brand be
remembered? I'm a big fan of biographies and autobiographies of my heroes from industrialist
to a Tory Bugatti. If when someone sees an icon today, or decades in the future, I'll be proudest
if they understand the nuance of why the brand exists and what it's engineered to represent.
Then I've done my job like, you know, Bugatti lost their ass for decades, but it was still a value
because of the single minded lunacy of the founder, and really caring about those details, even
during hard times. And when it didn't make sense, like, you know, the Bugatti Royale,
it failed miserably. I think what did he sell? Six, I think six, maybe eight in total. Yeah,
and he already had ordered all the engines for the rest and had no buyer and he just about
killed his own company. But then he came up with the train and ended up making a ton more of the
engines and that indirectly saved the company and made it viable, like Revolta, like ISO,
you know, with the BMW Asceta. They're like, well, we don't like it. I think the money's in
motorcycle post war, but there's this company called BMW, I think I can sell it to and that
allowed them to do a complete turnaround and focus on building the car that was keeping
him up at night. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I love all those like ESOs and Fossil Vegas.
I love Fossil Vegas. Yeah, I miss the boat, man. I could have bought those. I remember when those
were in the recycler for like, my wife and I went to look at in fact several, they were like 15,
20, 25 grand and nobody cared. Yeah, I just saw one of the one that was 25 grand in the exact same
condition, just auctioned for 220,000. We're like, damn it. But that's car guys, we're full of those
should have put a lot of moments in the stories. Weekly, weekly. Jonathan, I'd really appreciate
it. You know, maybe we could do it again because I still have more questions for you and I appreciate
you being on the collector car podcast. No, I appreciate you having me on and yeah, reach out
anytime and come visit next time you're in Halei. Come to the shop. I'll take you up on tour. Yeah.
About this episode
Jonathan Ward of ICON 4x4 explains how his FJ-based builds grew from a niche idea into a customer-driven business, with direct client feedback and engineering costs amortized over “hundreds of vehicles.” The conversation moves through ICON’s design and fabrication process, including Teflon-based powder-coat chemistry, aerospace-inspired interior sourcing, and aerospace-grade electrical assembly. Ward also details his early role in Toyota’s FJ Cruiser design studies, critiques FJ Cruiser door usability, and shares how ICON approaches modern Bronco-style engineering, suspension, and even an EV AWD drivetrain concept.
Before Jonathan Ward became synonymous with ICON 4x4, he played an important role in the design development of the 2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser, helping shape one of the most recognizable modern off-road vehicles ever built.
In this episode of The Collector Car Podcast, Jonathan takes us back to those early days at Toyota's CALTY Design Research before sharing how that experience inspired the creation of ICON 4x4. We dive into the philosophy behind ICON's legendary restorations and reimaginations, why craftsmanship still matters, how the company balances vintage character with modern engineering, and what exciting projects are currently in the works.
Whether you're an off-road enthusiast, classic truck collector, or simply appreciate world-class automotive design, this conversation offers a fascinating look inside one of the industry's most respected custom vehicle builders.
The Collector Car Podcast features expert interviews, great collections, and market insights. With 25+ years of experience, Greg helps enthusiasts navigate the collector car world with confidence.
