Locker choice gets broken down by terrain and driving style, starting with a quick refresher on open diffs, limited slips, mechanical/auto lockers, selectable lockers (slow vs high speed), and always-locked spools/welded diffs. The hosts then debate “best” setups for mud, sand, snow, and rock crawling—balancing traction, steering control, and when lockers can be engaged. Mud leans spool; sand and snow favor high-speed selectables (with limited slip as a contender); rocks favor selectable lockers (often ARB-style) over limited slip. They wrap with use-case recommendations for Baja, ultra4-style racing, and daily forest roads.
Happy Monday, everybody. This week, Tyler and I are getting into lockers — specifically, which locker is actually best for the situation you’re in. We covered the basics back in episode 460, so if you’re brand new to this stuff, go check that one out first. Today we’re going deeper: we ran through the main use cases — mud, sand, snow, rock crawling, high-speed Baja-style, and more — and debated which locker type wins in each one.
We covered all six categories: open diff, limited slip/Posi-Trac, mechanical auto-lockers (Detroit, Grizzly), slow-speed selectables (e-lockers, OX), high-speed selectables (air lockers like ARB), and spools/welded diffs. It got a little heated on the mud section right out of the gate, which is why we just started recording. You’ll hear it.
A few things we covered this week before the main discussion: https://www.snailtrail4x4.com/460-lockers/
**Gift Box Month** — April is gift box month. You’ve got until April 30th to get in, upgrade your tier, or get out. We’re not giving refunds after the month closes, so now’s the time. Sign up over at irate4x4.com.
**Monthly Giveaway** — This month, we’re giving away two gift boxes. Same items everyone else is getting — but you’d want duplicates of this stuff, trust me. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts to enter.
**Reviews** — Every 50 reviews, we give away an Onyx Elite membership and a swag pack. Once we hit 900 reviews, the next grand prize is a $1,000+ MORRFlate package — and yes, we’re planning to include the new project in that one. More on that soon.
Previous locker episode: 460: Lockers Before Lockers:
SnailTrail4x4 Discord: https://discord.gg/yFyFFkQbuy Come hang out with us on the SnailTrail4x4 Discord — it’s the easiest way to connect with Tyler and Jimmy directly, chat with fellow offroad enthusiasts, and get first access to Group Buys and Treasure Hunt token drops.
Group Buy for the Devos LightRanger 500 We reached out to Devos, and they are in. Here’s how the discount tiers work:
MORRFlate Giveaway at 900 Reviews on Apple Podcast. But our next giveaway is when we reach 800 reviews; we are giving away an OnX Elite Membership. We will also give away an OnX Elite membership when we get to 850. However, when we reach 900 Reviews, we are teaming up with MORRFlate for a $1000 MF Product Giveaway. Go over to Apple Podcasts to leave your review now and become eligible to win. Congratulations to A13XMONT, who won a set of tires from Yokohama Tire!
Call us and leave us a VOICEMAIL!!!
We want to hear from you even more!!! You can call and say whatever you like! Ask a question, leave feedback, correct some information about welding, say how much you hate your Jeep, and wish you had a Toyota! We will air them all, live, on the podcast! +01-916-345-4744. If you have any negative feedback, you can call our negative feedback hotline, 408-800-5169.
4Wheel Underground has all the suspension parts you need to take your off-road rig from leaf springs to a performance suspension system. We just ordered our kits for Kermit and Samantha and are looking forward to getting them. The ordering process was quite simple, and after answering the questionnaire, we ensured we got the correct and best-fitting kits for our vehicles. If you want to level up your suspension game, check out 4Wheel Underground.
SnailTrail4x4 Podcast is brought to you by all of our peeps over at irate4x4! Make sure to stop by and see all of the great perks you get for supporting SnailTrail4x4! Discount Codes, Monthly Give-Always, Gift Boxes, the SnailTrail4x4 Community, and the ST4x4 Treasure Hunt! Thank you to all of those who support us! We couldn’t do it without you guys (and gals!)!
SnailSquad Monthly Giveaway
For the Month of April, we are giving away Gift Boxes. Its Gift Box month and two luck indiviuals will win a one of our gift boxs. These are jam packed with goodies from tools to whiskey smokers. They are always different and always random. If you want a chance to win, sign up for the Giveaway Tier on Irate4x4
Congrats to Roger Lutz on March’s Giveaway. We gave away the new Devos LightRanger500. This little light is jam-packed with features, from red, orange, and white lights to a motion sensor. It would be perfect for inside a tent, under a canopy, or just general use around the vehicle. If you want a chance to win, sign up for the Giveaway Tier on Irate4x4
Listener Discount Codes:
SnailTrail4x4 –SnailTrail15 for 15% off SnailTrail4x4 Merch MORRFlate – snailtraill4x4 to get 10% off MORRFlate Multi Tire Inflation Deflation™ Kits 4WheelUnderground – snailtrail 10% off Ironman 4×4 – snailtrail20 to get 20% off all Ironman 4×4 branded equipment! Sidetracked Offroad – snailtrail4x4 (lowercase) to get 15% off lights and recovery gear Spartan Rope – snailtrail4x4 to get 10% off sitewide Shock Surplus – SNAILTRAIL4x4 to get $25 off any order! Mob Armor – SNAILTRAIL4X4 for 15% off SummerShine Supply – ST4x4 for 10% off Backpacker’s Pantry – Affiliate Link Laminx Protective Films – Use the Link to get 20% off all products (Affiliate Link)
"If you like going off roading in Toyotas, wrenching on Toyotas, camping in Toyotas, maybe even poking a little bit of fun at Toyotas."
They’re talking about Toyota trucks/SUVs a lot. In off-roading, Toyotas are popular because it’s easier to find parts and upgrades for them.
The episode is centered on Toyota ownership and off-road setups. Toyota is a common platform in 4x4 circles because many models have strong aftermarket support for lockers, tires, and suspension.
"So it's only available over on irate4by4. I think after this month, we'll be opening up, giving you guys instructions on how to do that in either place that you want to do it in."
They’re directing people to irate4by4.com to sign up for their membership/subscription. It’s where you go to get access for this month.
The show is using irate4by4.com as a “landing pad” to collect sign-ups for subscriptions. For listeners, it’s essentially the platform where the podcast community can join and manage access.
"We do giveaways and it's our way of bribing you guys to come over to Apple podcasts and leave us a review because anytime people go and search for off-roading content..."
They’re asking people to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reviews help the show get found by more people.
The hosts explain that leaving reviews on Apple Podcasts helps the show’s search visibility and recommendation ranking. In podcast ecosystems, reviews can materially impact how new listeners discover the program.
"We do giveaways and it's our way of bribing you guys to come over to Apple podcasts and leave us a review... So do that. Go do it. And if you do it, we enter you to win some cool stuff."
They’re doing giveaways to encourage people to participate—like leaving a review. It’s how they reward listeners for helping the show grow.
The segment describes giveaways as an incentive to drive engagement (like leaving reviews). For listeners, this is more about community mechanics than vehicle tech, but it’s central to the hosts’ call-to-action.
"going and leaving a review on Apple podcasts is one of the big drivers for search functionality. So Apple podcast loves seeing what current viewers think about a show..."
The hosts tie podcast reviews to Apple Podcasts’ search/recommendation systems. The idea is that Apple uses current viewer feedback to decide what to surface to new listeners.
"the next big grand prize will be with Moreflate. We'll put together roughly about $1,000 or more, $1,000 minimum package from Moreflate with a bunch of goodies in it."
Moreflate is the company sponsoring a big prize package. They’re partnering with the show to include gear and goodies in the giveaway.
Moreflate is mentioned as the sponsor/partner providing a grand prize package. In off-road communities, companies like this often support giveaways or product promotions tied to community engagement.
"The big project that's coming near the end of this year just got signed off on engineering. The engineering samples are now being made."
“Signed off” means the team officially approved the design. After that approval, they stop changing it and move on to building the next stage.
“Signed off” means the design has been formally approved by engineering and manufacturing stakeholders. Once signed off, changes are typically frozen so the project can move forward into samples, tooling, and production.
"So now it's moving forward, creating an engineering sample to make sure that it actually does all work together. Sure. And once that is all signed off, we don't have any more changes from there."
An engineering sample is like a “test version” of a new off-road product. It’s built to make sure everything fits and works before they spend money on the final production tools.
An engineering sample is an early, pre-production version of a product built to prove the design works. It’s used to validate fitment, function, and integration with other systems before tooling and full production begin.
"They'll, we'll go to create all the tooling and then go into production. We should do an episode on what it takes to create a product for the off-road."
Tooling is the equipment factories use to build the final parts consistently. They usually make tooling only after the design is proven so production doesn’t waste time or money.
Tooling refers to the specialized equipment and manufacturing fixtures used to produce parts at scale. In automotive/off-road product development, tooling is created after the engineering sample is approved so the final parts match the validated design.
"...we're doing for the light ranger 500... So one great way is to leave us those reviews..."
A group buy is when a bunch of people agree to buy together. The more people who commit, the cheaper it can get.
A group buy is a coordinated purchase where multiple buyers commit ahead of time to reach a quantity threshold. Vendors often offer tiered discounts based on how many units are sold or committed.
"How is the breakdown going? 10 units is 15%. If we get 20 units sold... If we get 30 or more units, it's 25%..."
Tiered pricing means the deal gets better in steps. If more people join, the price drops more.
Tiered pricing means the discount (and final cost) changes depending on how many units are committed. In this segment, the hosts outline multiple thresholds (e.g., 10, 20, 30+ units) that increase the discount.
"...discounted rate on the Divos light ranger 500, which retails for about $70, I can almost guarantee that we're going to hit that 10%..."
Retail price is the normal price you’d expect to pay. They’re saying the group buy should bring that $70 down.
“Retail” is the standard asking price before any discounts from the group buy. The hosts compare the retail price to the expected discounted price at each commitment tier.
"So if you're interested in getting a discounted rate on the Divos light ranger 500... we all we need is an email address..."
They’re talking about a lower price you can get if enough people join in. The discount gets bigger if more units are committed.
A discounted rate here refers to the reduced price offered when the group buy hits certain sales/commitment tiers. The hosts discuss how the discount percentage increases as more units are committed.
"...all we need is an email address for you. There's no down payments, no money transfer to start it."
They’re saying you don’t have to put money down to join. You just need to show you’re interested and how many you want.
“No down payments” means participants aren’t required to pay upfront to join the commitment list. Instead, the hosts ask for an email showing interest/commitment and an estimated quantity.
"[997.6s] Frame stiffeners, sub frames, skid plates, shock towers, and more to come.
[1003.4s] Make sure to use coupon code snail trail at fourwheelunderground.com because we've got you covered."
Skid plates are armor for the bottom of your vehicle. They help protect the engine and other underbody parts when you hit rocks or ruts.
Skid plates are protective metal or composite panels that shield the underside of the vehicle from rocks, logs, and impacts. They’re especially important for off-roading because they protect vulnerable components like the oil pan, transfer case, and fuel tank.
"[996.3s] We've got you covered.
[997.6s] Frame stiffeners, sub frames, skid plates, shock towers, and more to come."
Frame stiffeners are add-on reinforcements that make the truck’s frame feel more solid. That can help the truck handle better and reduce stress on parts when you’re off-road.
Frame stiffeners are reinforcement pieces added to a vehicle’s frame to reduce flex. Less frame movement can improve handling, protect components, and help off-road setups stay aligned under load.
"[1003.4s] Make sure to use coupon code snail trail at fourwheelunderground.com because we've got you covered.
[1012.1s] Welcome back ladies and germs."
Four Wheel Underground is a website that sells off-road parts for 4x4 trucks. They’re offering a coupon code mentioned in the episode.
Four Wheel Underground is an aftermarket off-road parts retailer that sells components commonly used for 4x4 builds. The mention here is a promotional coupon code for their products related to underbody protection and chassis reinforcement.
"So if you guys want more kind of in-depth information about differential lockers, go check out episode 460."
A differential locker helps both wheels on the same axle work together. When one tire starts slipping, the locker helps the other tire keep driving instead of spinning uselessly.
A differential locker is a device that forces both wheels on an axle to rotate together instead of allowing them to spin at different speeds. That helps maintain traction when one wheel loses grip, which is common in mud, sand, snow, and rock crawling.
"Today's episode is going to be more about locker use cases. So like we've tried to kind of brainstorm some different styles of off-roading types of things you may do with an offered vehicle..."
“Use cases” here means matching a locker type to the terrain and driving conditions you expect—like mud, sand, snow, or rock. Different lockers behave differently in terms of traction, drivability, and how they affect turning.
"The next one we have on the list is Mechanical Locker. So we're talking about something like an Ox Locker."
A mechanical locker is a device that can force both wheels on an axle to turn together. That helps a lot when one tire is in the air or totally slipping.
A mechanical locker is a differential that can effectively “lock” the left and right wheels together so they rotate at the same speed. Unlike a limited-slip, a locker can provide a much stronger traction bias when one wheel is completely unloaded or spinning.
"...they do not engage. So that's kind of your mechanical locker. It's a auto locker. A lot of people call them auto lockers because they go into autos."
An auto locker is a type of mechanical locker that engages automatically based on driving conditions—commonly when torque is applied. When you lift off the throttle and coast, it can disengage, which helps reduce binding during cornering compared to a fully locked differential.
"The benefit to like ARB air lockers or Yukon zip lockers is that you actuate them with a high-pressured air system."
ARB makes popular off-road locker systems. Their air lockers lock quickly because they use compressed air, which helps with traction when you need it.
ARB is a well-known off-road parts manufacturer, and “ARB air lockers” refers to their air-actuated locking differentials. The podcast highlights the advantage: fast engagement thanks to a high-pressure air system.
"My first locker was a welded diff. Nice. Yeah. And we welded it."
A welded diff is a differential that has been permanently locked by welding internal components so the side gears can’t rotate independently. It’s a common budget off-road approach, but it changes how the vehicle behaves on-road and can increase stress and wear.
"So that's your spool, your welded diffs, JB welded diffs for people that are doing that."
A spool is a way to make the two wheels on an axle act like they’re welded together. It gives strong traction off-road, but it can make the truck harder to turn on pavement.
A spool is a differential “locking” setup where the side gears are effectively replaced so the axle shafts are permanently locked together. It behaves like a locked differential 100% of the time, which is great for traction but can be harsh on-road.
"...the locker literally just digs itself down. Yeah. It does. Like even you air down and you start moving, but literally you just start digging..."
Air down means lowering your tire pressure. It helps the tire spread out so it can float and grip better in soft sand or mud.
“Air down” means reducing tire pressure to increase the tire’s contact patch and improve flotation in soft terrain like sand and mud. Lower pressure can also improve traction and ride compliance, but it must be managed carefully to avoid damage.
"Um, to have the option to let one tire move independently. Um, so having some sort of selectable option is good, but having a locker in the sand is fun."
A selectable locker option lets the driver choose between locked and unlocked behavior. That matters because different surfaces (sand vs snow vs rock) and different maneuvers (climbing vs turning) benefit from different levels of wheel coupling.
"So I think absolutely selectable lockers in snow, I don't think I would care too much if it was slow or high speed though, high speed selectables."
Selectable lockers are differential lockers you can engage or disengage, typically on demand. They let you run open or partially locked behavior for normal driving, then lock for traction when needed.
"It's more of a, I came to a stop. I think I need to engage my locker or disengage my locker to move on or reverse or whatever the situation is."
Engaging the locker means turning on the system that locks the differential. You typically use it when you need extra traction to get moving or to back up.
Engaging a locker means activating the differential lock so both wheels on the axle are forced to work together. The speaker describes using lockers as a tool for specific moments like moving from a stop or reversing, rather than constantly switching while driving.
"Okay. The first one we have is sort of high speed Baja. Okay. So you're doing like the Mint 400, Vegas Torino, Baja 1000, Baja 1000 stuff like that."
The Baja 1000 is a well-known off-road race in Mexico. People mention it to describe the kind of fast, rough desert driving they mean.
The Baja 1000 is a famous off-road race in Baja California, Mexico, known for high-speed desert sections and rough terrain. It’s often used as a reference point for vehicle setup choices like traction and durability.
"[4084.1s] ...in there, when they're in trails, like freaking ball peen where it's not burned in, [4089.8s] there's no real trail."
“Ball peen” sounds like a nickname for a tricky rock/obstacle shape. The point is that it’s hard to keep traction, so being able to control when the axle is locked can help you pick your way through.
“Ball peen” appears to be a trail/obstacle nickname for a rounded, hard-to-keep-traction section where tires can slip or unload. The speakers use it to explain why having an open/controlled differential behavior (or the ability to choose when to lock) can make obstacle navigation easier.
"...I like the Rivian multiple idea of one motor per corner. One motor per corner and you can control it many different ways."
This means each wheel can get its own power from its own motor. That lets the vehicle adjust grip wheel-by-wheel, which can help on slippery or uneven terrain.
“One motor per corner” describes a four-motor (or wheel-hub motor) architecture where each wheel has its own motor. This enables very fine control of torque distribution for traction, stability, and drivability, especially on mixed surfaces.
Select text to request an explanation
Welcome one, welcome all to the Snail Trail 4x4 podcast. If you like going off roading
in Toyotas, wrenching on Toyotas, camping in Toyotas, maybe even poking a little bit of
fun at Toyotas. And of course, talking about how fantastic locking mechanisms are in Toyotas,
then this is the podcast for you. That's right. This is my name is Tyler joining me for another
episode of Snail Trail 4x4 podcast is Jimmy Jet. Jimmy, how's your poor mosa? It is sad. I agree.
It's not very orangey. It's not very orangey at all. Yeah, it's only one half of the poor
mosa today. Just the poor is the poor part of the poor mosa today. That's funny. What is a
poor mosa for those that have no idea what we're talking about? A poor mosa is orange. It's
sunny D specifically, but orange juice in the form of sunny D, which arguable as to whether
not sunny D is orange juice. Yeah, sure. And Coors light. Yep. So typically a mimosa is orange
juice and champagne. Yeah. The nice stuff. Yeah. It's good. That's nice. Good. Like high quality
bougie stuff. Yeah. Pinky out. Yep. And poor mosa's are sunny D and Coors light. And we just have
the Coors light. So we don't have any sunny D in here, but it's amazing. We had poor mosa's out on
the snow trip at uncle Tom's. And we were both, I don't know. Everybody who had one was like,
he's actually pretty good. Yeah. I know. Sunny D is notoriously sweet for an orange juice. And
I don't know how much orange is actually in it, but it's very sweet. And so the more bitterness
that you get from beer offsets that, but you get the nice carbonation from the Coors light.
And it ends up tasting really good actually. I forgot who was talking, who brought it up first.
But then when that, maybe it was just because one of the, what was his name, the other Tyler.
Bougie Tyler. Bougie Tyler. Country club Tyler. Country club Tyler.
I think his son was running around with the sunny D's. And then I think it was either the assistant
or myself. I forgot. I was like, oh, we should make some poor mosa's. And everybody's like, what?
Yeah. We're like, yeah, sunny D and a light beer. You're good.
Poor mosa. It's when you wake up, hung over, and you can't actually do hair to the dog because
it's like the beer is so bad. You do a poor mosa and you can survive. Yep. Yep. I was,
I was very pleasantly surprised. That was the first time I've had a poor mosa. And I was like,
that was good. And this over the past weekend, not this weekend, last weekend, Easter weekend,
I made a comment to the wife that I was like, we should have poor mosa's.
She was, what the hell is a poor mosa? I told her, she was, that's gross. We're never having that.
And I was like, that's what you think. Yeah. Next time we have mimosas, I'm going to actually
make poor mosa's. Okay. And so she says anything. She'll know the difference. She'll be like this,
this champagne. We're way off topic already. We're doing an off road podcast.
Off topic, off road. They're like one and the same. Yeah. I've really been getting into
Bloody Mary's lately. I've never got, I could, I've never been able to do Bloody Mary's. I
taste them every time I have them. I was that way. Okay. Yeah. And I know that they say like
every seven years your taste buds change or whatever, but I don't know what, like a good,
spicy, bloody Mary to me. I'm just like, yes. And I think that might be my thing that I start
bringing to camps. Like morning of, I'm not normally one of the morning risers. I'm more
to like, I'm later, one of the later people that rise, but when I get up, I'm thinking about like,
it's going to be a bloody Mary time for everybody that's in camp. I think that might be my thing.
Nice. Maybe it'll be pormosis. Who knows. That will be a little easier. I'll bring the
pormosis. I'll start turning that into my thing if you want to do Bloody Mary's, but I'll do,
I could probably do like, I like the bacon inside and all the accoutrements on top and
everything. So you're going to do an actual bougie Bloody Mary?
Sort of. I mean, it'll be like some pickled veggies, not like a hamburger.
Yeah. But I love, I don't know. I like, I like that sort of stuff.
We should do a challenge sometime. We'll set out a table with like 50, 50 Bloody Mary's and
pormosis and see who, who gets the most taken. Sure. Okay. Let's do it.
We'll be the wheeling first with a bunch of people or go somewhere. We just need to be at
beer tree one day, which is the table full of cups. Yeah. Free drinks. What do you want?
You only get one though. You only get one little Dixie cup. Yeah. Which one do you take it?
My Dixie wrecked. I get it. Anyways. Okay. So what are we doing? We're doing it off.
Circling around here. Yep. This is Monday. Happy Monday, everybody. We are getting ready
for a fun episode. We have a few other things going on though. First, the where
that's backend stuff, form the podcast, things that you guys get a chance to win.
Some pretty cool deals. We've worked with companies that like working with the podcast
that we've been able to make some pretty cool deals with for everybody and hopefully make
some win-win situations for the companies, for you guys, for us, et cetera. So the first thing
coming up is the month of April is gift box month, which means that you guys have roughly
30 days from April 1st, April 30th to get in on the gift box or leave the gift box if you want to
and without, you know, like wasting money and getting into April or getting into May or June
and deciding you don't want to be in the gift box to anymore and leave. We're not giving you
doing now. If you want to downgrade your tier, you can downgrade. If you want to upgrade and
get into the gift box tier because gift boxes are a lot of fun. There's personal things that
Jimmy and I have personally kind of put together for you guys. So we come up with some ideas to
put in these gift boxes, make the ideas happen, reach out to companies, try and turn your money
into more money in terms of product. And it's a fun little game that we like to have and hopefully
it's a fun game for you guys to get your gift boxes and open them. So it's like another Christmas
or a birthday present. So the month of April is when you get to do that. Month of October will
be the next time you get to do it. So if you are thinking you may want to do it, do it now.
Today is April 13th. You have about another two weeks to get in. So this month's giveaway
is two gift boxes. So we're going to take the gift boxes that we put together for everybody.
I think we're doing like 63 gift boxes this round. Something close to that. Yeah. So we get
enough stuff to make a few extra gift boxes. So we like to do two of them for the monthly giveaway
of gift box months, gift box month. So we've got two extra gift boxes. And these are items where
if you're getting a gift box and gift box tier and you end up winning the monthly tier, I think
you would want extra items of these. Yeah. So it's not like a bad thing to have duplicates of them.
They'll definitely serve a purpose and have a place if you have duplicates. So
that is this month. If you guys want to get in for any of that, you got to go over to irate4by4.com
for now and get signed up for all that. I think after this month, we're going to keep it open on
irate, but we're also going to open up the subscription plans because it's all essentially
being coordinated through PayPal. But irate4by4 is giving us a great spot to have a nice user
interface for you guys to sign up for those subscriptions. But we will be working on a way
to do that through Discord as well, through the Discord server. So through this month,
it's only available over on irate4by4. I think after this month, we'll be opening up,
giving you guys instructions on how to do that in either place that you want to do it in.
Yep. Sounds good. And irate4by4 doesn't take any money.
No, they don't.
They just are allowing us to have a landing pad.
Yep. Austin's just helping us out. And we get some more publicity there on irate4by4 and he
gets more foot traffic to the forum. So it's a win-win for him. So let's see. We got reviews,
as always. We do giveaways and it's our way of bribing you guys to come over to Apple podcasts
and leave us a review because anytime people go and search for off-roading content, camping content,
wrenching on your rig content, Toyota content, but definitely no Land Rover content,
going and leaving a review on Apple podcasts is one of the big drivers for search functionality.
So Apple podcast loves seeing what current viewers think about a show before they feed that show
to new viewers. So reviews go a really long way to growing the show, keeping more content coming in,
keeping companies, fresh companies working with us to do cool stuff for you guys. So it all goes
around in a giant circle. So do that. Go do it. And if you do it, we enter you to win some cool
stuff. So every 50 reviews, we give away some fun things, like an ONNX Elite membership for
ONNX Off-Road as well as some swag packs. We're doing that. And then once we reach 900 reviews,
the next big grand prize will be with Moreflate. We'll put together roughly about $1,000 or more,
$1,000 minimum package from Moreflate with a bunch of goodies in it. So including,
hopefully, our new project, which I just got clearance. I don't know if I told you this.
I have no idea of any of these projects except for the one that's out there on the do not break
the emergency thing. Yeah. The big one that's coming. Yeah, the big one.
The big project that's coming near the end of this year just got signed off on engineering.
The engineering samples are now being made. Okay.
And so essentially the production, the factory said, and the engineers got together and said,
yep, totally. That design works. Everything should work together. So now it's moving forward,
creating an engineering sample to make sure that it actually does all work together.
Sure. And once that is all signed off, we don't have any more changes from there.
They'll, we'll go to create all the tooling and then go into production.
We should do an episode on what it takes to create a product for the off-road.
Yeah. I mean, there's different levels of it for sure.
And I think you're at one of the highest levels. This is one of the higher levels.
Mine's definitely not that high. Yeah. This one has a lot more components
and systems and stuff in it. I mean, it has more than our host kits does in it.
Definitely more than a couple of the other projects we have working in the pipeline.
So it's definitely one of the more involved projects.
And the big hurdle of will this design actually work is all signed off and done.
So it will for sure work, which means now we can submit patents on it
and move to make an engineering sample on it.
It's okay. Yeah.
That's interesting. Is it going to show up in red and black?
Red and black. No. Hopefully not this time.
If you know, you know. Oh, man.
Anyway, we've also got a group by going on for everybody.
So one great way is to leave us those reviews.
But if you want to get into a group by that we're doing for the light ranger 500,
we all we need is an email address for you guys because you just saying that you're interested
in it. Let's see. How is the breakdown going?
10 units is 15%. If we get 20 units sold, committed to, then it'll be 20%.
If we get 30 or more units, it's 25%.
But I'm willing to bet knowing our history with Divos, if we get upwards of like 60 units,
they'd probably give us a bigger discount than 25%.
It's just a matter of we need the commitment to get there first.
Right. Absolutely.
So if you're interested in getting a discounted rate on the Divos light ranger 500,
which retails for about $70, I can almost guarantee that we're going to hit that 10%.
Fairly quickly. 15%.
Sorry, 15%. So that's going to drop it, what? Around 50 bucks.
No, it'll be around 60, it'll be about $60 for the first tier.
So first tier, even if we just get over 10 people, you're already dropping it about 10 bucks.
So if you're interested in getting in on that, all we need is an email address for you.
There's no down payments, no money transfer to start it.
We just need an email showing your commitment and probably a quantity
of how many you're actually interested in. If you're interested in more than one.
If you want to send in a blood and sperm samples while to show your commitment,
Jimmy is accepting those too.
So it's Nick from Montana.
So you can email us, you can DM us, or you can get on our new Discord,
which is the next thing I wanted to tell you guys about.
We've now started a Discord channel on the Discord channel.
We've started a group buys thread and specifically for the light ranger 500.
So you can almost also comment there saying that you're interested in it.
You feel free to leave your email address there if you dare,
or you can DM us through Discord, or we can DM you if you say you're interested
and we'll ask for your email address so that we could keep a list,
which we're actually going to attempt to do on Discord as well.
In a hidden thread for just Tyler and I, and if we ever get an admin or something like that,
they can be on there too.
Show producer.
Show producer, yeah.
So we're going to try to be working in Discord more often.
So if you want to join us and get an easier access to chatting with us,
you definitely can do that.
You just need to use the link that's down in the show notes,
and that'll bring you over to the Discord.
We're only talking about the Discord here on the podcast at the moment.
We haven't published this on social medias or anywhere else for the most part.
So if you're a listener to the podcast and you're up to date,
then you're going to be one of the first people entered into that Discord.
So that'll be really cool.
I did see that Zach from Oklahoma joined the other day.
So that's going to be some fun chats with Zach.
If you bob is on there, beer crags on there, there's a bunch of people signed up.
There's a lot of people signed up already.
I want to say there's 25 people on there now.
Really?
When I looked, I think this morning it said 25 members.
We're growing quick.
Yeah. So that's about the group buy.
That's a doubt the Discord.
We talked about gift boxes that are going on this month through the end of the month.
We talked about reviews and we talked about the giveaway.
I think we're good.
Sweet.
Then let's take a quick break and we'll be right on back with today's campfire discussion, which
like we said in the interest do with locking mechanisms.
And we'll be right on back.
Grab your favorite drink.
We'll make some more pormosas here.
Minus the most that and we'll see you soon.
We've got you covered.
Frame stiffeners, sub frames, skid plates, shock towers, and more to come.
Make sure to use coupon code snail trail at fourwheelunderground.com because we've got you covered.
Welcome back ladies and germs.
This is the campfire discussion on Monday, April 13th, episode 698.
Wow.
So April 20th, 420 will be episode 700.
Jimmy, we should do it high.
Oh, we already, if you just hit the little turtle button on your podcast platform there,
apparently we become plastered for you.
So thanks Boondock, Brian for showing us that.
Oh, it's still hilarious.
Today we get to talk with you guys about one of Jeff Morgan from Oregon.
One of his favorite topics, which is lockers.
We should have tried to get him on here to do this.
Oh, I wouldn't even think about that.
You have his phone number.
I do have his phone number.
Just give him a random call.
Give him a random call right now.
Jeff, you're divorced.
Do you have time in your day?
Let's talk.
That would have been great.
Maybe we'll just end up getting like do a follow-up episode with him or something.
Be like, all right, Jeff, what did we fuck up?
What did we fuck up?
This is like the entire snail mail episode right now.
Anyways, we're going to go over this.
We're going to do our best.
We have kind of a bit of experience with a lot of different types of lockers.
And we've already gone over an episode where we talked about kind of like locker 101.
What are the different types of lockers out there?
Different styles.
How do they work?
The kind of getting into the more in-depth stuff that were that was the main point of that day's
content, that day's show.
And that was what?
Episode 460?
460, lockers before lockers.
There you go.
So if you guys want more kind of in-depth information about differential lockers,
go check out episode 460.
Today's episode is going to be more about locker use cases.
So like we've tried to kind of brainstorm some different styles of off-roading types
of things you may do with an offered vehicle and then think about the different types of
lockers out there and think, would this locker be better than these other lockers?
And kind of almost rank them as to what would be better for this situation
and what would be worse for this situation to have as a locker.
Let's talk about just a quick overview.
Yeah, I agree.
The different kind of styles of lockers that are out there, differential lockers.
So I think the first one is no locker.
Yeah, it's just been open, open.
It's spider gears, open spider gears that just rotate and allow the tires to turn
at a differential speeds.
Let's the differential be a differential, right?
So no locker, no mechanism to force the two axle shafts on the other side of the vehicle
to spin at the same speed.
They're allowed to go at different directions, well, I guess different directions too,
but different speeds.
So when you're turning around a corner, you get a tire spinning differential,
which allows the inside tire to turn slower than the outside tire.
The outside tire has bigger distance to travel on the arc of a radius and a turn.
Therefore, it needs to spin faster to complete the same turn.
So that's a differential's dual and not having any sort of locker,
any sort of locking differential mechanism in there allows the spider gears to do that.
Really, really cool.
Still my favorite video, I think, online.
Yeah, how do differentials work?
How differential works.
Yeah, for sure.
These are also, whenever we see those people that love to accelerate off the line
and they only have one tire spinning, they have an open differential, a one tire fire.
Absolutely.
Exactly.
The next one on the list is limited slip or posi,
which from my minor research, I found that posi is just, I believe it was,
I think it was, oh man, I'm going to butcher it.
Was it a brand or a model of a brand?
A model vehicle or a brand truck changed the name of limited slip only for themself.
I want to say it was Ford, but I don't remember exactly.
But it was either Chevy Ford or Dodge called their limited slip posi, posi track.
And so people, you either had a posi track or a limited slip.
And it was essentially, it's the same thing.
It's mainly a bunch of clutches and springs to send power to the side that is sort of spinning.
So it's a transfer of power.
It's not equal power and it's not a linear power change.
It's sort of just a transfer of power from one side to the other when one side is slipping.
Yeah.
And the thing with limited slips is they really have to be spinning at different rates,
right? Very drastically different rates from one side to the other side.
If you have one side that is down bound up on a rock or something on the ground
and the other tires up in the air and you're just kind of like idling, crawling,
your limit slip probably will not kick in.
But if you start adding speed, wheel speed to it, that's when that limited slip will start
kicking in and transferring that power through the clutch and mechanisms inside the differential
to that tire that's bound up in the rock kind of thing.
So the main point is you have to have a drastic change of wheel speed
in order for those to start working.
Yep.
Yep. Cool.
The next one we have on the list is Mechanical Locker.
So we're talking about something like an Ox Locker.
Well, no, Ox would be a selectable.
We're talking something along the lines of like a Detroit or what?
So that's, or Grizzly.
That was the other one I'm looking for.
Yeah. Those are sort of the big ones.
There are like true tracks and things like that,
which I would still sort of put in.
They could be like somewhere between a posse or limited slip and a mechanical,
but I'd still kind of lump those into the mechanical locking side.
And the way that these work is it's literally a mechanical connection from sort of one axle
shaft. Let's just say to the other axle shaft, this is very generic.
But once one of them starts spinning faster than the other, it mechanically locks them together.
And this is sort of the point at which we see a true locker where both sides of your vehicle,
both tires on each side of the axle are spinning at the same rate.
Yeah. A lot of times these are engaged through input from the opinion as well.
Yeah. Okay.
So if you thought it was when one side spins faster, but now that I think that's more like
the posse is limited slips. I think the like a Detroit and a Grizzly,
they, as soon as you apply power to them, that's when they kind of lock up.
And when you release power and you're just drifting coasting around the corner, they're unlocked.
That's what I was going to say where I was going to stand corrected. Yes.
Yeah. Cause if you accelerate to the corner, but then you let off the throttle and you coast
around, they do not engage. So that's kind of your mechanical locker. It's a auto locker.
A lot of people call them auto lockers because they go into autos.
Yep. Because they go into automobiles. And so yeah, the nice thing about those is
anytime you're applying power to your drivetrain, your differential locks up,
which could be a good thing, could be a bad thing to have any on the situation.
As some people will attest to that have Detroit's in their vehicles, you know,
you'll be going around a corner and all of a sudden you apply power to exit the corner.
And the rear end likes to jump out of the, out of your, your, your turn.
The rear end likes to jump and skid over. It's because both your tires in the rear are now
turning at the same rate. You don't have that differential spinning to them. So
they stop wanting to turn and they try and go straight and you end up sliding out.
Essentially like a drift, like you're drifting the car. So, which is, yeah, it's fun. Yeah.
If you know it's happening. Exactly.
If you're not ready for it. So that's the, the, the nice thing about Grizzlies,
Detroit's your auto locker style is that you don't have to have wheel spin happening and,
and that differential for them to start working. It's as soon as you start usually applying power
to the drivetrain, they'll lock up for you. So sometimes good, sometimes bad.
Yep. Yeah. The next one we kind of divided into two, we'll see how this works here as we
run down this list to slow speed selectables and high speed selectable lockers.
Yeah. Slow speed selectables, they're selectable lockers, right? So you choose when they're locked
and when they're open. And I like to categorize them into subcategories of slow speed and high
speed selectables, mainly because of my, my recent adoption of E lockers. Okay.
E lockers, they don't engage as quickly as air lockers do. Right.
And ox lockers, unless you're using the air actuate mechanisms for them,
setups for them, they definitely don't lock as fast as air lockers. So the benefit to
like ARB air lockers or Yukon zip lockers is that you actuate them with a high-pressured air
system. Okay. Yep. And that high-pressure air system can lock in the locking mechanisms very
quickly, which means you can engage them in between the teeth of your lockers inside the carrier
while it's spinning at faster rates. E lockers and ox lockers, you kind of either got to be stopped
or going like five miles an hour slower to really lock them in and not risk
shearing those teeth off as the two mating teeth surfaces engage
because they just don't go as fast, right? They don't get a full engagement right away. It's almost
like a slow engagement. So if your teeth are turning on one side, think of grinding and gears
in your transmission. Yes, exactly. So that's essentially kind of how I like to categorize
them. And when you're driving in different situations, it could be very, very nice to have
an air locker and engage and be able to turn on and off your lockers at high speeds. If you're
never really doing high speed, go fast situations. So lower selectable lockers are kind of nice to
have too. So there can be situational. So that's why we kind of split those up into the two sub
categories there. Sure. Yeah. Yep. And then the last one, always locked. Yes. And this is your
spool. Essentially, we're going to call it a spool throughout the episode. This could also be
welding your spider gears all together in your open differential. Or as we've been seeing some
videos coming out recently, just dumping a ton of JB weld into your carrier to be able to lock
your spider gears together using JB weld. Have you seen the video of that guy that cuts out a
metal plate that's as the cutouts for the spider gears in the carrier and you can just like
set it in and then you literally weld the whole thing up. Yep. Yep. That's crazy. Yep. That's
in my opinion, that's a little bit stronger than just welding the gears of the spider gears. Yeah.
Because now you're jamming everything together and not letting anything move at all with
absolutely structure. So yeah, I think that's a cool way to do it. My first
locker or my, yeah, my first locker was a welded diff. Nice. Yeah. And we welded it.
Was it a Lincoln locker or a Hobart heligrip or? It was a Miller. Miller mighty grip. Miller
mighty grip. Yeah. Nice. Hustle nuts. And I did it. Okay. Hustle nuts had the welder and he has a
Miller. Yeah. Okay. So yeah. And so we did, we just cleaned it really good, made sure it was an
oily and, yeah, I kind of welded it all together right there. It's kind of crazy. Yep. Just a
lot of heat, a lot of weld and that thing never broke. I might still have it. Nice. I don't know.
I think I do. I don't remember where it's at now. Nice. I don't know why I would have gotten rid
of it. Yeah. So who knows? I think it's just a carrier on the, or a center section of the,
the, a carrier, I guess. Yeah. A carrier on the shelf right now. Okay. Nice. Yeah. It's a,
that's essentially our last category. Yep. It's just always locked. Yes. So that's your spool,
your welded diffs, JB welded diffs for people that are doing that. So it is what Bobcat has.
JB weld? No. Okay. Has a fully, fully locked all the time in the rear of Bobcat. Yep.
All 100% always, always locked even when I'm driving on the road and everything. Yep. So
those are kind of the different categories that we're going to be applying to different use cases
and trying to have a discussion, a conversation. And this is where the campfire discussion part
comes in of what lockers are best for the different kinds of situations and why kind of thing.
I will say we're not going to be getting into systems that like mimic locking differentials,
such as torque vectoring systems like ATRAC, crawl control, the different kind of like goat
modes or anti-slip abilities that, that vehicles have nowadays where they're essentially reading
the tone rings on a wheel speed sensor and then trying to use the brake system to match
the tone rings on the system. We're not going to use those and talk about those. We're going to stick
to specifically differential locking mechanisms and ways to lock those up. So we'll have to do
another episode with all the crazy stuff that goes into some of those technology for the goat
modes and whatever all the Rivian stuff. Four motor Rivians that don't have differentials at all
and they're not using the brake system really to control. They're using power to each motor. And so
yeah, that's pretty crazy stuff you can do once you eliminate differentials, which I'm sad about,
but it's cool stuff. It's really cool stuff. You don't need a locker anymore because you
can just automatically power from two tires or four. And with electricity, it's infinitely
controllable pretty much. Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. So we ran down the different types of
lockers that we're going to be covering. We got open limited slip mechanical locker. We have a
slow speed selectable, a high speed selectable and a spool. And I'll just quickly run down sort of
the different kind of categories that we're going to kind of cover. We started this with,
I'll just say, the first one I have on the list is mud. And Tyler and I were sitting here before
we started recording and we were going to debate which one we thought. So then when we start talking
about it in the episode, we kind of have already things laid out, but we started arguing on the
very first one about which one maybe is the most important. I said, all right, let's just
start recording the podcast because apparently this is the podcast. So I have written down
sort of the four basic land territories, terra forms or whatever you want to call it.
And then some sort of other kind of style ones. We've got mud, sand, snow and rock as sort of
our standards. And then we have like high speed sort of Baja style. We have rock crawling sort
of ultra four style. And then we have sort of more of a generic forest road kind of style.
Yeah. Okay. So those are the ones that I have written down. So let's start with mud. Let's start
at the top of the list. Cool. We have, let's see, we got one, two, three, four, five, six
different types of lockers. Okay. Starting from open ending in spool. Four mud, which one do you
think is the most important? I struggled with this one a little bit more than I thought I would.
I immediately like when I first thought about it, my instant gut reaction was spool.
Why would you want anything else? Right? Spools are strong. They're reliable.
They're consistent. Like they're not going to change on you. And really with mudding,
a lot of times what you're doing in mudding is you're just driving in a straight line
through a mud pit at as high of a speed with as much horsepower as you can.
And that's what spools are really designed for.
That's a great scenario. They lock the wheels together. So you're not having a differential
anymore to be able to make turns. You're going straight. They're extremely strong,
very simple creatures, which is what a lot of mothers are.
So like that was my initial thought. I was like, there's no contest. There's no debating it. Like
spool is the only thing you would ever really want for mudding. Okay.
But then I started thinking, are there styles of mudding out there? That's a track
and you're having that same style of mud vehicle, but you need to be going around a
track and making turns. Yeah. I don't know of any for the most part. I don't. I mean,
I know that there are tracks that include mud. Uh-huh. Like a rally sport tracks kind of thing,
or area be a fee. Yeah, but like I'm thinking of like a high horsepower, like mud truck,
like a wreck. It robs mud truck on a track where you need to be turning and making high
speed turns and stuff, almost like a sprint cars kind of thing, but in a mud truck.
I don't know if there is, but like if there, if there is,
I would say you would want limited slips in that limited slips are selectable.
I would say limited slips, limited slips, maybe an auto locker, Detroit.
I just feel like with, uh, because mud, the whole point is tire spin.
You need a lot of wheel spin. So you're, you're very, your, your, your drive train is always
running at high speed. Yes. Whether or not you're actually moving high speed or not,
your drive train thinks you're running high speed. So, um, I would, and if I'm mudding,
and the goal is to be going as fast as possible, I don't want to have to worry about whether,
thinking about whether or not my lockers are turned on. Okay. So like, and so I started
thinking about what I want a Detroit then or limited slip. And I'm thinking, you know,
if I'm going to be spinning and drifting around corners or trying to take high speeds,
um, I don't know if I would want to try it because we always want the power spinning
and the wheel spinning, though always going to be locked up. It's going to make it a little
harder to make that turn maybe. Okay. That's why I'm thinking limited slips. Interesting.
I would still argue spools. Really? He thinks that too. It's the whole time. Yeah. I only,
I'm thinking of like big foot. Okay. Yeah. Or Grave Digger or Grave Digger or whatever.
Side note, since I mentioned Grave Digger, uh, we've been watching a lot of monster
trucks recently with the kid. Oh, okay. And he thinks Grave Digger is daddy's truck. Just
stuff. It looks just like the forerunner. So every time it comes on daddy's truck,
we're going to rename the forerunner Grave Digger. Ooh. From the mule to Grave Digger.
Maybe. Yeah. Maybe the neon Grave Digger. I know. Yeah. Neon Digger. Neon Digger.
Maybe we'll have to revisit that one. Yeah. Okay. Back to the topic. I just know that these monster
trucks, uh, big foot kind of Grave Digger, you know, um, these guys have, they're spooled front
rear. Yeah. They're not, I mean, they're a little bit of muddy. They do a little bit of money,
but they're doing some of the like fast horsepower, big moves, big truck, they are kind of stuff. Yeah.
And they're spooled front rear. Yeah. So I think spool is the way to go if you're muddy.
Because you want, you don't, I don't think limited slip would be that great because
you don't want to worry about the transfer of power happening because it might be too late.
Okay. That's fair. I could, I can see that. So I think spools are the way to go. Okay.
The most consistency. Yeah. For that kind of thing. And I, see, I'm, I, my original thought,
I don't think you could beat a spool in that scenario. I'm just wondering how
a limited supper Detroit would do in a track scenario. And monster trucks are great option,
a great concept of that. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. I think a selectable, um, high speed option,
like an ARB or something would be probably a, a good alternative, um, an additional choice.
As long as you're engaging things prior to when you're going to go, you know,
just make sure it's engaged before you hit the watering hole. Yeah. But once you get out,
it'd be much easier to drive around without a selectable, um, especially because some of
those tires are so big. Yeah. I can imagine turning is going to be horrendous with a spool.
That or you need four wheel steer and drifting and doing doughnut style things.
How's the scrub radius? On one of those guys. On one of those trucks.
Geez. Don't know. Wreck it, Rob. How's the scrub rated? How was the scrub radius on your
butt track? Right. So I would almost put spool, then a select high speed selectable.
I would agree. I think I would take a spool over high speed selectable any, uh, any day
in that scenario. Yeah. Um, but would you go spool or would you do a mechanical locker
over a selectable locker? I think I would. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Not open.
We are, we all in agreement here that opens at the very end of this list.
Yeah. I think open is a very bad option for mudding. Yeah.
And I think slow speed selectable is it would be a bad option for mudding too.
I mean, maybe not the straightaways because you could, so you could turn it on
before you start your run and then turn it off when your run is done.
Like I'm just the straight run through. So I could see those being handy.
I don't think they, I think I would still prefer the spool because the point of that is usually to
compete in, in mudding stuff. So, um, I would want a, a simple, strong, uh, application
than the complexities of a selectable in that situation, I guess. Yeah.
Okay. So we, I think we've decided that if you're a mudding truck, a person that's like,
I can't, I equate this to the south. I don't know if anybody else does, but if you're a southern
boy that enjoys lifting his truck to the sky and hitting mud puddles or these monster mud
puddles, pawns, maybe with tractor tires, a spool is the answer.
I would agree. I think that's the, the best way to go.
What about a normal, I was going to say normal person, but I don't,
I think that's not even right. What about a person that enjoys just going out in the back
country on sort of fire roads and or service roads of some sort and it's muddy.
I think a selectable is a decent option for that then. Um,
I also think a Detroit and a limited slip is a decent option for that too.
I don't think open is a good option for that. Nope.
I still think open would be one of the worst options for mud, because I mean,
the whole point of mud is that it's hard to get traction. So you need,
you need something, some tool to overcome that and open is not going to give you that.
So I think a selectable and I, I think if you're just going through fire roads and it's really
muddy, I don't think you need necessarily high speed versus low speed is going to be
a benefit either way for a selectable. The selectable would definitely have the benefit in
after the fun is over and you're back on pavement. I think the selectable just handles better on
pavement. It's more consistent pavement driving to get to and from those trails,
but on the trail itself, I don't know if there'd be a big benefit between selectable
versus an auto locker, a limited slip or Detroit. Yeah. I think a mechanical
would be right up there as well. I think that a selectable or a mechanical would be above
limited slip, but the limited slip or selectable would be the bigger advantage on the road.
Yep. I would not choose a spool for that vehicle. I wouldn't either.
Just because you are getting to and from the view, to and from the trail on pavement still.
Yeah, especially if it's a daily driver. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. All right. Cool. How about the
next one down? I think we, I think we murdered that one. So, uh, which is sand. Oh, man. Sand,
I would for sure say high speed selectable has got to be the way to go. I agree. Yeah.
You have to have it. Yeah. I don't think at first I was like, spool would be good in sand. I was
like, no, no, there's not. There's definitely times when you need to be open, open in sand kind
of thing. Yeah. Um, there, there's benefits to be able to spinning one tire and not another one's
kind of thing and have a control over that. So, um, I think, I think high speed selectable is the
absolutely the way to go in sand. I, I think so too. Um, I think with the spool and bobcat and me
with some, with my experience out in like, um, uh, shit, Pajaro dunes, not Pajaro dunes.
Well, I can't, I think, oh, shana dunes. Thank you. Um, us, the locker literally just digs itself down.
Yeah. It does. Like even you air down and you start moving, but literally you just start
digging because it doesn't, it's not transferring the power as it kind of needs. You're just
dropping yourself in. Now a locker is good to have it sometimes or locked wheels are good to
have sometimes out there. Um, I would almost argue though that a, the strong second contender
here would be a limited slip. That was going to be where I was going to go. Yeah. Um, I think that
the limited slip would definitely help. It's not going to throw all the power down. Um, all, when
you're like going starting from a stopped position, when you're starting the, um, to move, you're
going slow enough that one tire is going to be helping you push out of the situation that you're
in. Um, or you can start getting on the throttle a little bit more and then both tires can get
engaged and help move you. I think that, um, it will also be able to transfer the power
well enough in the sand. Um, since it's a little bit loose, um, and moving that it's going to help
you keep the traction all the time, wherever you're going to be going. Uh, both sides are
pretty much going to be engaged similar to a locker, but not as not equal to a locker. Yeah.
Yep. Yeah. I agree. I think that, that spool would be one of the worst options in sand. Um,
and I think that the high speed selectable is your top option. I think limited slip is a very
strong contender. Um, the auto locker, the Detroit's your Grizzlies, uh, and the slow speed
selectable, I think they're about the same there. Um, if anything, the mechanical is probably a little
below the selectable because you can turn the selectable off. Yeah. Um, which it's, which the
next one we'll talk about snow, which is going to be quite similar. I'm assuming. Um, it's good to
have a one tire fire sometimes in these slippery conditions. Um, it actually, uh, you know, will
help you to some extent and not dig you down or not slip you off the trail. Um, to have the option
to let one tire move independently. Um, so having some sort of selectable option is good,
but having a locker in the sand is fun. Yeah. Because so that's why I'm like, okay,
high speed selectable is there because once you get going and you can start doing your
drifts or slides or whatever you want to turn that locker on, you want to slide. It's that's,
you know, the half of the fun hitting that bowl and whipping it around, you know,
that's a, that's a good time. And it's easier to have that fun. I don't know if it's easier to
have that fun, but it's makes it more, I guess it's easier to have that fun if you have a locker
in the back. Cause now you can slip it and slide it a lot easier. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Um, I would,
I was going to say something about a selectable locker and I forget what it was now. Oh well.
Oh, and I took limited slips, limited slips. The nice thing about limited slips and sand
is you can manipulate how much transfer of power happens using the brake as well. Yes. So you can
actually manipulate which wheel power is going to by putting applying pressure with the brakes.
So that's kind of the nice thing about having it for sand. Sand is very,
it can be very tricky and you can dig down very quickly and it's nice to be able to control that
power through the brake pedal to the use of the brakes and applying the brakes that way. So
right. Yeah. I know when I was driving the Tacoma Charlotte around in, down in Pismo,
I was changing it from two wheel drive to four wheel drive a lot.
Oh, okay. Because you can do that in, I can't do that in Bobcat, right? It's a mechanical
connection with the fucking lever that I have to jam into gear. I have to come pretty much
to a stop to change it. But the Tacoma, you can change it on the fly. They say, I think it's like
up to 35 miles an hour. You can change that and you're not, I'm not going 35 miles an hour in
the dunes, but it was fun to be able to like, Oh, I need to start. I'll put it in four wheel drive.
Okay. I'm up to, I'm on plane. I'm going to two wheel drive. Yeah. Right. Now I need to learn
how to do the wiring so I can go to two wheel drive with my locker on. Yeah. And then we're
going to have lots of fun. Yeah. Exactly. That was an interesting thing. And what a lot of what
I kind of am relating back to that is you only need, like I'm driving around in two wheel drive.
I only need one tire moving. Yeah. So high speed, selectable, I think is a good option.
You got the locker when you need it or want to play. And then you're most of the time,
you're in a one tire fire situation or limited slip, I think would be that next better one.
Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. Ice. Nice or ice? Ice? Snow? Snow is next. Okay.
Snow, I think a selectable locker in snow. Does it matter too much between
high speed or slow speed? I don't think. I can't think of a scenario off the top of my head where
it would really matter. I think just as long as you have a selectable locker, I think you just,
you kind of the same certain terms of sand. You just want to be able to have control of
whether where you have traction, when you have traction, when you don't have traction.
Because the big thing in snow is in theory, you would think that you'd want all four tires
spinning at the same rate, but that becomes a bad thing when you're trying to turn on an embankment.
Because as soon as you start sliding in snow, you create little ice sheets under your tires,
essentially, and you just keep sliding. So the goal is you don't want to have your tires spin
at different speeds. I mean, you do want to have your tires spin at different speeds
so that you don't spin out and do that like inside tire burnout with a locked differential.
Yeah. So whereas in sand, you kind of do it for the fun in snow, you do it more for
making sure you stay on the trail kind of thing and don't fall off the mountain side.
So I think absolutely selectable lockers in snow, I don't think I would care too much
if it was slow or high speed though, high speed selectables.
In deep snow, I don't think it matters. You're not going terribly fast. Most of the time,
you're not going terribly fast. And most of the time when you are going fast, you're not switching
between locked or unlocked. It's more of a, I came to a stop. I think I need to engage my locker
or disengage my locker to move on or reverse or whatever the situation is. Yeah, I think so.
And I think in the snow, you want the option to have one tire moving or having a free differential
to some level. So I think spools are at almost near the bottom.
I would agree. I wouldn't put them at the bottom. No, I think, but I, yeah, but they're definitely,
they're not ideal, but I think that they're a better option than obviously open.
And I think they're a better option than limited slips in the snow.
Okay. Yeah. So the big issue with limited slip is that in order to get them to work,
you have to have a high speed, a high differential rate of spinning, right,
then in your wheel speed and you just, you never want to be sitting there spinning a tire fast
in the snow, in the snow. Yeah. What about when you're playing with the break?
You can, you still have to get that moving and to begin with. Yeah. So that, that's the big
problem with it, right? In sand, you can kind of do that. Sand will somewhat start, it'll
somewhat fill itself in to an extent. Snow doesn't really fill itself in usually.
So as soon as you start digging a hole, you're not coming back out of it,
unless you get out and fill it in yourself. And the other big problem with snow is as soon
as you start spinning, you create a, you lose your traction forever pretty much. Kind of. Yeah.
It kind of creates this little ice sheet underneath your tires. So it's hard to even get traction
in the first place. So you're really the goal in snow is to never spin your tires. Sometimes
wheel spin is good. Just depends on the, the condition of the snow, but in my experience,
there's way fewer times that you actually win by having tire spin, wheel spin.
Yeah. And I throw a mechanical right there with spool for the most part.
I put it right above spool, but yeah, right. It's right in that same category as him.
Yeah. So I, yeah, I agree. I think a selectable is a good option for snow. I know with, in my
scenario with Bobcat, because I have a spool in the back. I always, I like to talk about
just a frozen over road. No, not snow, just a frozen ice sheet on a, on a road. Yeah. If I
accelerate Bobcat, just its rear end just slides sideways. It doesn't move, right? It just, it
ends up pivoting one way or another, especially in two wheel drive. Yeah. And, and so, and eventually
you'll, the momentum or something will carry you forward and you'll get the grip or something,
you know, and you'll, you'll scoop forward. But because it's just an instant slip with a spool,
I instantly lose traction, which I actually find fun at some points. But if I'm driving on a daily
or I'm driving, you know, somewhere where it's always icy, I would not want that in my vehicle.
So let's talk about, um, like ice, I don't say ice racing, ice road truckers.
No, like ice racing, we're kind of the goal is to be sliding around on ice. Sure.
What would be good for that? I think a spool is a great situation that when you're looking to do
that, right? So there's a different use case. What is your goal? Is your goal to
proceed in a controlled manner or slip and slide out? Cause I think you mentioned it,
you know, and kind of in passing there, but you're like, sometimes I like spitting out.
I like sliding. That's the goal for me when driving on ice. And in that case, yeah, you want
your rear tires locked together. I should get into drifting is what I'm getting out of this.
Ori, I'm calling you. You're right. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, what we decided on was pretty much a
selectable locker. Yeah. Okay. So that's, I'll mark that one down four, four or five.
Rocks is what we have next. Okay. And so I'm envisioning the Rubicon. Okay. I'm all
envision the Rubicon with you. I think a low speed selectable
serves purpose really well on the Rubicon. High speed selectables do really well on the Rubicon
too, but you have the added air system into it. So it's a little bit more,
it's like one level up of complexity. Sure. And in the system. But I think that, you know,
I think that's mainly for turning it. I don't know. Cause if you have hydro assist or full hydro
steering, it doesn't really care if your front end is locked. No, it doesn't care,
but if your front end is permanently locked with a spool or a mechanical,
you're making a wider corner. That's true. You're not able to make as tight a turns.
Yep. So on a tighter trail, like especially. And, and including the rear. Have you seen
that video of the guy that showed your turning radius when your front is locked and your rear
is open and your front is open and your rear is locked. And it was almost like the rear
pushes you through. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And that was, that was always interesting to me too.
I guess they know the trail. I think a lot of rock trails and just really technical rock
crawling. You need to be able to turn tightly and have, it's not, and it's not because you're
making a turn. You just may need to get from rock A to rock B within five feet. And it's
a diagonal from you, right? In the middle of an obstacle. And you need to be able to maneuver
and make that turn. And, you know, sometimes you need to turn the lockers off in order to do that.
Yep. Or at least it makes it a lot easier to do that. Yes. And since you're not really going
high speed, I don't think you need the added level of the air system and the high speed selectables.
There are definitely benefits to ARBs in terms of strength and Yukon lockers,
in terms of strength and
knowing that they're engaged. Whereas E lockers, you kind of need a quarter to half a turn of the
tire before they engage kind of thing. That's where I was going to go. The benefit of having
a high speed locker is if you're in the obstacle and you're on throttle, you can engage the lockers.
That is true. And you will then, it'll near immediately start going actuating. Yes. Where
if you're in the obstacle and you're on the throttle with a slow speed electronic selectable,
it's probably not going to engage. And I've been in that situation before and I've had to back off
an obstacle to engage them and go back on. We don't do like, I think that stuff like in sand hollow
can require you to do that. Like you need kind of complete control mid obstacle of stuff
of your drivetrain. I don't know if there's too many instances of that on the Rubicon per se,
or I've just been out on the Rubicon enough. I know where the lines are. So I just turn the
lockers on before I hit the obstacle and just go through. But yes, that is a very functional
benefit that the air systems air lockers have. Ox lockers though, they don't need,
I don't think they need a quarter or a half turn of the wheels in order to operate. So I think once
you, once you engage them with that mechanical linkage, the wire, the cable actuation, they're
locked. So I would imagine if you're in the middle of an obstacle, you can, you'd have to stop your
wheel spin and settle down for a second, lock the locker and then continue. But on the Rubicon,
I don't think, I can't think of any places where that would be a bad thing. I think there's places
in like Moab, Moab would like a Pritchett Canyon. You don't want to be halfway up one of the walls
in Pritchett Canyon. Decide you want to turn on your lockers all of a sudden and then stop halfway
up the wall to turn on your ox locker. Yeah. You really need the ARB there to turn that on. So
yeah, I mean, I guess in terms of functionality for the system, I think you've sold me on the
high speed selectable and just being able to be, do the different forms of rock crawling.
I think you are able to do, you have more variety of like available options to you for
when you can engage. Yeah. And so I think that it out, it beats out an E locker in that aspect.
Yeah. Where with an E locker, you just look at the obstacle and you're like, okay, I'm probably
going to need to engage my lockers and then you just engage them and then you hit the obstacle.
Where an ARB you're like, let's see if I can make this in two wheel drive, aka one tire up front,
one tire out back, pushing me up this hill, see if I can make it up and open open. And then I don't
and I can immediately engage the lockers and then be able to crawl through it or whatever.
So I think you get that little bit of a boost for a high speed selectable,
but I think not far behind is the slow speed selectable just because it's,
there's a benefit of less stuff, it's less complex on your vehicle. It's just you have to think about
you have to think about it a little bit more if you want to engage the lockers or not.
True. So there's a little bit of a balance there. Yep. How about spools?
For rock crawling, I love the simplicity of spools. I love their, they're super strong,
they're super simple, very reliable, very consistent. And what we've already talked about
with spools. The only thing I don't like about spools while rock crawling is exactly what you
said earlier. They kind of push you through turns. If you need to make a tight turn, you can't turn
them off and you end up having to Austin powers the turn, which you know, that's trade off kind
of like the, the, the, what we just talked about air lockers versus lockers, the trade off with
spools versus selectables is that you end up making more Austin powers turns on the trail
than just one shotting the turn. So you get the strength, simplicity, reliability,
and consistency of a spool. You just take longer to make turns. So then would a mechanical
locker be better because they are not engaged on the turn. I think the mechanical lockers get
engaged anytime you put power to them, right? Yeah. So Grizzly, Detroit, they're going to be
locking. And that's a lot of times when you hear the click, click, click, click through turns.
I think that they're locked up and they're operating the same as a spool in that point.
Pretty much. Yeah. I think that there's no advantage to having a mechanical or a spool. I
think they're pretty damn similar. Yeah. Most of the times like we talk about on the road,
when we were talking about mechanical lockers, you're not going fast enough to carry your speed
that isn't when you're not on throttle, make a corner rock crawling. Yeah. You know, if you
just are there. So it's, they're one in the same. Yeah. In an essence, I will say, I will take all
those options over a limited slip in the rocks though. Agreed. Yeah. And the limited slip just
because it's, you have to get that wheel spin going. And a lot of times drive train components
bind up very quickly and easily in rocks that that's your big risk rock crawling is, is a drive
train bondage. So, um, you know, when you have a limited slip and you start spinning that tire
and then it causes the clutches to transfer the power to the tire that has traction,
if it's bound up and you have a lot of your, your drive train up Fungusto behind that,
you can snap things very quickly with limited steps, or it all of a sudden grabs, sends you
flying up and over the top of the rock, like an automatic transmission does. And you come crashing
down on the other side and it's not a fun ride and it's rough on your rig and rough on you and
rough on the drive train. So, and with limited slips, usually you have to carry more speed
yes through obstacles just so you can keep that working. Exactly. Yep. Yep. So yeah,
I think limited slip, besides open, I think limited slips not far above it. Yeah. I would
almost argue that if you're daily, if you're driving your vehicle to the trail, a mechanical
locker would be above spool. Yeah. Okay. Yep. If you're trailering, probably just have a spool.
Yeah. But selectables are the best in a rock crawling situation with probably ARB or
one of the Yukon Zip Lockers style being edging out E-lockers only because it's more versatile.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I agree. Okay. That's a good way to wrap up rocks. Yeah. So we kind of bondage
with bondage. Yeah. We kind of cover the different types of terrain, mud, sand, snow, rocks that
are out there. So let's talk a little bit about like driving situations. Okay. The first one we
have is sort of high speed Baja. Okay. So you're doing like the Mint 400, Vegas Torino, Baja 1000,
stuff like that. I think I'm going spools. Really?
I think so. I could be persuaded, but I think I'm going to spools. Yeah. I think any high speed
situation, spool in rear at least for sure. Maybe select bullet front. Maybe.
Maybe. I don't know. I'm still, I think for high speed desert stuff, if you're
trailering, I still like spools. I love the simplicity of it. And you don't, I don't,
I can't think of a whole lot of scenarios if you're going high speed that you're going to be needing
to open an unlock versus lock of them. And if you're going into turns with high horsepower,
big tires and a lot of speed into the turn, I would be a little concerned about the amount
of force being put on the differential and like an auto locker differential or a selectable
differential. If you're locked up and the spools are just so much stronger. Yes. So
I think I'd still go with spools all around for like say a trophy truck application,
four-wheel drive trophy truck application. So. Okay. I agree. I think I'd be doing spools all
around. What if it was something more minor league desert racing style? Kind of like a,
like taking a Ford Raptor and F 150 Raptor out to play for the weekend kind of thing.
I would probably do Detroit in the rear and select a bulb front in that case.
Yeah. Just because I'm probably driving home with that vehicle, probably didn't drive it or
trailer it to the trail. And you get the functionality of a spool in the rear and a locked rear and
front, but you don't have to worry too much about either one driving to two home or not. So
okay. And if you have selectable hubs in the front, then just do an auto locker front and rear. I
know when your auto locker in the front has no play on anything going on. So
yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the benefits of the, of Toyota, right? Is that when we unlock
the hubs and we're in two wheel drive, nothing's turning in the axle or anywhere else. And so
like for a long time it was, I had a Detroit or actually I still in Bobcat it has a, well it has a
Grizzly Yukon Grizzly up front Yukon Grizzly. I think it is right? I think so. Grizzly up front
which is a Detroit and that's what I run out on a daily. That's what I drive on the roads with
it up front, right? But because nothing's spinning in that axle, it's not affecting my tires, not
affecting my turning nothing. So that might be a good option for that. I think I would still do
a high speed selectable in the rear. You think so? If we're like a Raptor style or the TRD hammer,
have you seen that? I have not seen those yet. No. It's essentially the new Ford, the Raptors
for the TRDs. It's the Toyota Tundra. Oh. TRD hammer. Okay. And it's supposedly this new,
I don't know if it's AI or what, but it's the Raptor killer that Tundras or Toyota Tundras
are going to come out with. Okay. Yeah. We'll see if that's true or not, if it ever makes it.
But what a horrible name, but it could have done better. I don't know if they were thinking
of King of the Hammers or something, but yeah, I think as a daily driver, I think I would do
a selectable still in the rear. Yeah. A daily driver, yeah, weekend warrior rig,
when you have a different vehicle daily drive, I'd probably go with the Grizzly.
Yeah. I think they're slightly stronger than ARBs or high speed selectable.
There's, I feel like there's less systems involved to make them reliable,
but a daily driving, daily driven vehicle you're taking out to play with
selectable in the rear. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way to go. Okay. Yeah. How about rock racing,
like ultra four kind of style?
I'd say, I think I like the way a lot of the ultra four cars are set up. Spools in the rear
and high speed selectable front. I would, that's exactly what I was thinking. I can only imagine
the abuse that some of these things take. And so I think you just have to think about more strength
than like opportunity. And for the most part, I would almost run spool spool. I don't know what,
like why there would be a benefit necessarily to running a selectable up front besides maybe
some of the higher speed stuff, but I think the main reason for the, the selectable front is,
you know, in there, when they're in trails, like freaking ball peen where it's not burned in,
there's no real trail. You have to like choose and work your way through that thing.
Or like what Randy did when he went up and around that big ass rock to pass everybody
for his big pass. I think it's a lot easier to do when that's open and open. When you just
have a tight maneuvering on a rock trail, you want to be able to, you want to be able to maneuver
and select if you want that on or not. Yeah. It would be nice to have like, I'll turn it off
in the rear, but turn it on in the front and do some digs or something. Yeah. I don't know like
how complex that gets. I mean, we could do into like, we rock rock climbing, rock crawling.
Right. And that's obviously selectable, selectable, but yeah, I don't, I guess that would make sense.
I love the strength of the spool in the rear though, because I mean, those cars do rip across
the lake bed at 100, 120 miles an hour. I think they clocked Eric Quicks's new car at like 130,
140 across Emerson at one point. But like at that speed, that much power going through with
that much torque out of those engines at those speeds, you know, having that spool in the rear
is a very nice thing. I can't imagine many scenarios in the rocks where having selectable
in the rear is going to be make it or break it. I could see having selectable in front being make
it or break it in some scenarios. Okay. Yeah. I don't, I think either one of them would work fine,
but I don't, and a lot of the cars do run spools up front too. So yeah, they do.
Yeah. So if you're going to, if you're building an ultra four rig, consider that I'd be curious
to hear from some of our ultra four drivers. Yeah. Ria Trent, Manili, Christopher, what's
the Nissan guys? Yeah. I don't, do they even make lockers for Nissan? So that's what I'm curious
They're just welding everything.
That's funny. Brady, yeah, you guys give us a call. What has your guys experiences been
for the, our race teams that listen to the show? What do you prefer to drive
in high speed rock crawling quote unquote? Sure. Yeah. Ultra four cars. Yeah. I think that'd be
interesting to hear different racers takes on that for sure. The last one brings us back home,
just sort of forest roads, sort of a daily person going out, you know, like a normal Joe Schmoe.
What do you think would be a good situation for that? I think you're, you're selectable, selectable
or open front, maybe selectable in the rear, maybe Detroit in the rear. I think your, your
vehicle is probably not very modified. It's not very niche use. You're using it as your daily
driver, your weekend play vehicle, your, your getaway to go camping, getaway, go hiking,
your Swiss army knife of vehicles. And I would say you just, you don't want to be open, open.
I don't think, I think there's too many scenarios that happen on forest service roads where
you need to make sure you're getting at least three wheels of power to the ground.
So yeah, I think selectable in the rear, maybe Detroit. I think ultimately selectable in the
rear would be better because you can just turn it off for a daily driving and be open, open
limited slip, not a bad option for forest service roads. I don't think it would be
necessarily too bad to be going through an obstacle or be bound. You're not your, your
chance of being bound up are much less than rock crawling, right? So I think limited slip could
work really well. I think selectable though would be your top choice. Yeah, I, I, I agree.
I don't think high speed or slow speed necessarily matters here. I think an e-locker would be totally
fine. I think most people would get away with a selectable in rear and open front and that's
pretty much all you need. And then when you start moving into more technical things and
start looking at a selectable, selectable after all this talk, so I was kind of curious, like,
I wonder if they make like a Detroit or Grizzly for the Tacomas, like my truck for the front
and the clamshell. I'm not, I don't know. I've never really heard anybody doing that.
I don't know. That's a good question. Yeah. They're an eight inch clamshell now, right?
Yep. I don't know. Yeah. That's a good question. Yeah. Because it's, it's so easy to disconnect
two wheel drive, four wheel drive. And then I would assume that it's, it would so that I,
I don't even know. I'm assuming the CVs spin with the wheels at all time.
I would imagine. And so the Detroit would then spin. So it wouldn't be that great of an option.
Probably. Yeah. So that answers that. Yeah. Because there's no hubs to lock and unlock. There's
not selectable hubs on those. So the axle shafts are always married to the differential and the
wheels. Yep. So yeah. So that means it would always be powered. Yeah. And if it's in two wheel
drive, yeah, it'd be very similar to, yeah. Where does the disconnect happen in those systems?
Is it, is it axles side disconnect? I don't know enough about it. No. No, I'm not a hundred percent
sure. I think it's a diff. I don't, I don't know. The transfer case disconnect. I'm not sure where
the disconnect happens for the four wheel drivers, two wheel drive and in like Charlotte's four wheel
drive system. Yeah. I have no idea. I haven't dug it into it at all. So I'm not sure. Okay. But
for a random person, like I'm envisioning my Tacoma going out there with the Toyota E-locker
that it has in the open front. I think that is more than satisfactory for most people.
I think the next step up would probably be a selectable front and rear. Yep. And then
I don't think a mechanical or spool is a benefit to you just because it's just not a comfortable
driving experience. And these vehicles are more your daily drivers. Yeah. They're your Swiss
Army knives. So you want them usable for a lot of different situations. I think spools and mechanical
lockers work really, really, really well and they're top choices for a lot of scenarios. Yeah. But
for their very niche scenarios. So the more open of a scenario you need, I think the
options to be able to turn lockers on and off at will at any speed is your ultimate
scenario for a Swiss Army knife vehicle. So cool. Yeah. Sounds good. Fun stuff.
Did we miss any kind of lockers out there? I hope not. I hope not. If we did, let us know.
You can DM us a snail trail four by four or four by four Toyota Tyler. You can email us,
Jimmy or Tyler at snail trail four by four.com. You can write on the discord and tell us how
silly we are because we've completely forgot about one thing or you can call in and be a
part of our snail mail episodes 916-345-4744. Cool. I like it a lot. Fun episode. I love
talking about differentials. I think they're one of my favorite components of a vehicle
and ways to manipulate them for off-roading purposes, including JB Weldon.
Jimmy, any final words for everybody out there? I like the Rivian multiple idea of
one motor per corner. One motor per corner and you can control it many different ways.
Yeah. I agree. Now I just need to make full-on 30-inch travel suspensions with the motors
at each corner. That would be the next step. Get on it, Rivian. And with that, my friends, keep crawling.
I got you. I got one for you. I got you. I got you one. I got you one of it.
You're still learning to speak. I just opened it.
That's funny. More of a one-liner. We argued all day about what to call
a medieval soldier. A knight. It was getting late, so we decided to call it a knight.
Good job. Yeah.
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