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712: Help Keep Your Trails Open: Volunteering, Grants & the Forest Service Shake-Up
712: Help Keep Your Trails Open: Volunteering, Grants & the Forest Service Shake-Up
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About this episode
Summer wheeling energy kicks off with a mix of prep talk, community discounts, and gear calls—then quickly turns into a bigger mission: keeping trails open. The hosts connect trail access to maintenance, volunteer manpower, and Forest Service restructuring, sharing examples from the Rubicon, Adopt-a-Trail work, and infrastructure projects like the Barrett Lake outhouse. They also break down how to engage land managers, use grant programs in $5,000 chunks, and document impact to fund trail work.
Topics:
coilover mounts
custom tuned coilovers
Frame stiffeners
gaskets
lifetime warranty
o-rings
shock towers
skid plates
subframes
wear point
Just Jimmy and Tyler kicking off June with something that’s been on Jimmy’s mind since the Rubicon trip — and since the Barrett Lake outhouse project started spreading to other forests.
The short version: the National Forest Service is being restructured in a way that removes local regional offices. The closest regional office for El Dorado National Forest, Tahoe National Forest, and Stanislaus National Forest is now in Salt Lake City. That means people who have never set foot on our trails are making decisions about them. Jimmy draws the parallel to what happened at Gemini Bridges and Labyrinth Rims — 2,200 miles of trails evaluated and closed by people working off a map. No boots on the ground. And those were local BLM offices. Now imagine Salt Lake City.
The call to action is clear: the off-road community needs to show up at the table before the restructuring finishes and the table gets moved somewhere else.
Jimmy runs through what that looks like in practice. The Mad Hatters just completed their adopted section of the Rubicon Trail. Friends of Fordyce and Friends of Rubicon had a big work weekend. Spree to Four (or the Granite Bandits — Jimmy goes back and forth) does Corral Hollow every year and opens more roads than the county can staff. There’s a work party at Moon Rocks coming up to install 32 named obstacle signs, with BLM permission. And the Barrett Lake blob bathroom project — the one the off-road community funded and built — is now being copied onto Fordyce at Committee Crossing and Wind Chill 3, and at Observation Point on the Rubicon. Tahoe National Forest, which historically does not collaborate with El Dorado National Forest, asked to copy the project. That’s what showing up looks like.
How to get involved: contact your local ranger district, come with questions not demands, keep digging until you find the person who can actually answer them. Search Facebook groups for your specific riding area. If nothing exists, start the conversation. For funding, Onyx has their Trail Revival Program live right now — $5,000 grants, Jimmy applied and got one last year, the main ask is media showing the work was done. Tread Lightly and BFG also have trail grant programs.
The window for making a real impact is right now, during the restructure, not after it’s done.
Also in this episode: today (June 1) is the last day to use the Devos LightRanger 500 group buy discount code. The Russo May giveaway has closed — winner announcement coming Thursday. The June giveaway is not announced yet but Jimmy teases it’s a company they’ve worked with before and it’s a good one. Apple Podcast reviews are approaching 800 (Onyx Elite giveaway waiting at that mark), and Jimmy drops another hint on the big SnailArmor Black Friday launch — “we’ve already changed how inflation and deflation is done globally, and we’re about to do it again.”
We have a massive discount this month with Rusoh Fire Extinguishers. You can get 25% off this month only with the discount code Rusohcrawlers. Go grab yours today!
SnailTrail4x4 Discord: https://discord.gg/yFyFFkQbuy
Come hang out with us on the SnailTrail4x4 Discord — it’s the easiest way to connect with Tyler and Jimmy directly, chat with fellow offroad enthusiasts, and get first access to Group Buys and Treasure Hunt token drops.
MORRFlate Giveaway at 900 Reviews on Apple Podcast. But our next giveaway is when we reach 800 reviews; we are giving away an OnX Elite Membership. We will also give away an OnX Elite membership when we get to 850. However, when we reach 900 Reviews, we are teaming up with MORRFlate for a $1000 MF Product Giveaway. Go over to Apple Podcasts to leave your review now and become eligible to win. Congratulations to A13XMONT, who won a set of tires from Yokohama Tire!
Call us and leave us a VOICEMAIL!!!We want to hear from you even more!!! You can call and say whatever you like! Ask a question, leave feedback, correct some information about welding, say how much you hate your Jeep, and wish you had a Toyota! We will air them all, live, on the podcast! +01-916-345-4744. If you have any negative feedback, you can call our negative feedback hotline, 408-800-5169.
4Wheel Underground has all the suspension parts you need to take your off-road rig from leaf springs to a performance suspension system. We just ordered our kits for Kermit and Samantha and are looking forward to getting them. The ordering process was quite simple, and after answering the questionnaire, we ensured we got the correct and best-fitting kits for our vehicles. If you want to level up your suspension game, check out 4Wheel Underground.
SnailTrail4x4 Podcast is brought to you by all of our peeps over at irate4x4! Make sure to stop by and see all of the great perks you get for supporting SnailTrail4x4! Discount Codes, Monthly Give-Always, Gift Boxes, the SnailTrail4x4 Community, and the ST4x4 Treasure Hunt! Thank you to all of those who support us! We couldn’t do it without you guys (and gals!)!
SnailSquad Monthly GiveawayMassive thanks to this month’s giveaway with Rusoh Fire Extinguishers. We have one of their 2.5-pound extinguishers to give away to a lucky winner. This extinguisher has an 18-year shelf life and is the best fire extinguisher for any off-road vehicle. To learn more, check out Rusoh.com. If you want a chance to win, sign up for the Giveaway Tier on Irate4x4
For the Month of April, we are giving away Gift Boxes. It’s Gift Box month, and two lucky individuals will win one of our gift boxes. These are jam-packed with goodies from tools to whiskey smokers. They are always different and always random. If you want a chance to win, sign up for the Giveaway Tier on Irate4x4
Listener Discount Codes:SnailTrail4x4 –SnailTrail15 for 15% off SnailTrail4x4 Merch
MORRFlate – snailtraill4x4 to get 10% off MORRFlate Multi Tire Inflation Deflation™ Kits
4WheelUnderground – snailtrail 10% off
Ironman 4×4 – snailtrail20 to get 20% off all Ironman 4×4 branded equipment!
Sidetracked Offroad – snailtrail4x4 (lowercase) to get 15% off lights and recovery gear
Spartan Rope – snailtrail4x4 to get 10% off sitewide
Shock Surplus – SNAILTRAIL4x4 to get $25 off any order!
Mob Armor – SNAILTRAIL4X4 for 15% off
SummerShine Supply – ST4x4 for 10% off
Backpacker’s Pantry – Affiliate Link
Laminx Protective Films – Use the Link to get 20% off all products (Affiliate Link)
Show Music:
- Midroll Music – ComaStudio
- Outroll Music – Meizong Kumbang
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Wrangler Rubicon
"...e a part of and use to do some maintenance on the Rubicon Trail too. They have an elite partnership."
The Jeep Wrangler is a 4x4 SUV made for off-road trails. People choose it because it’s designed to handle rough terrain and it’s commonly used for trail trips and related maintenance. In the podcast, it’s mentioned in connection with work done on the Rubicon Trail.
The Jeep Wrangler is a compact 4x4 SUV famous for its trail-focused design and strong aftermarket support. It’s frequently used for off-road maintenance and trail access because it’s built to be durable in rough conditions and easy to modify for specific terrain. The podcast specifically mentions using a Wrangler as part of maintenance on the Rubicon Trail and notes an “elite partnership,” indicating it’s central to the off-road activities being discussed.
Car
Jeep Gladiator
"Nope. I will say I was happy we had the gladiator when we got it out at out of Trail Hero X."
The Jeep Gladiator is a 4x4 pickup truck, meaning it has a truck bed and can drive on rough trails. People talk about it for off-roading because it’s made to handle dirt roads and uneven ground. The podcast mentions it as a helpful vehicle during a trail event.
The Jeep Gladiator is a midsize pickup truck built on a Jeep-style 4x4 platform, designed to combine off-road capability with a real truck bed. It’s often discussed in off-road circles because it can handle trail driving while still carrying gear, tools, or recovery equipment. In the podcast, it’s mentioned as a vehicle that proved useful during a Trail Hero X outing.
Car
Ford Ranger
"...e last day to get your group buy in for the Light Ranger 500s. I still need to do that."
The Ford Ranger is a pickup truck that’s built for work and can also handle off-road driving. It’s often used by people who go on trails because it’s easy to set up for carrying gear and getting traction. The podcast mentions it alongside “Light Ranger 500s,” which sounds like something specific for Ranger owners.
The Ford Ranger is a midsize pickup truck known for being practical and capable in both everyday driving and light-to-serious off-road use. It comes up in off-road communities because it’s a common platform for trail setups and group events where people coordinate rides and equipment. In the podcast, it’s referenced in connection with “Light Ranger 500s,” suggesting a parts/accessory or tire-related discussion tied to the Ranger.
Term
o-rings
"is just the couplers. [766.5s] They just have o-rings and gaskets inside them and just over time. [770.8s] Inevitably, those are going to go bad."
O-rings are small rubber seals that help keep liquids from leaking where two parts connect. Over time they can dry out or wear, and then fluid starts seeping out. Swapping the O-rings can fix the leak without replacing everything.
O-rings are rubber sealing rings used to prevent fluid leaks at joints and couplings. In a hose/coupler setup, they compress to fill small gaps, so when they age or harden, leaks can start. Replacing worn O-rings is often cheaper than replacing the whole assembly.
Term
gaskets
"They just have o-rings and gaskets inside them and just over time. [770.8s] Inevitably, those are going to go bad. [772.5s] So you're creating a wear point in the system."
Gaskets are seal pieces that sit between two parts to stop leaks. If they get old or damaged, they stop sealing well and fluid can escape. Replacing the gasket is usually the fix.
Gaskets are sealing materials placed between two mating surfaces to stop leaks. Unlike O-rings (which are ring-shaped), gaskets can be flat or molded to match the joint shape. When gaskets degrade from heat, pressure cycles, or age, they create leak paths.
Term
wear point
"So you're creating a wear point in the system. [775.7s] Sure. Well, it's sure. [777.2s] Good thing that more play has a lifetime warranty."
A wear point is the part of a system that gets worn out first or fastest. In leak-prone setups, the sealing area is often the wear point because it gets squeezed and stressed repeatedly. When it wears, it can start leaking.
A wear point is a specific spot in a system that experiences the most stress, movement, or degradation over time. In sealing systems, couplers and their seals (O-rings/gaskets) often become wear points because they’re repeatedly compressed and exposed to pressure and fluid. Once that area wears, leaks become more likely.
Term
lifetime warranty
"Good thing that more play has a lifetime warranty. [779.9s] There you go. [782.3s] My host kids leaking."
A lifetime warranty is a warranty that’s intended to last for the product’s lifetime, but the exact terms can vary by manufacturer (for example, who qualifies and what’s covered). In practice, it’s often used to cover failures from normal wear, like leaking seals, rather than damage from misuse. Listeners should still check the fine print for exclusions and proof requirements.
Part
coilover mounts
"coilover mounts through bed, coilover mounts, trailing arms, [1180.0s] cantilevers, custom tuned coilovers and air pumps."
Coilover mounts are the brackets/attachment points that hold the coilover suspension to the truck or Jeep. If they’re weak, the suspension can flex or wear out faster. Strong mounts help the suspension work the way it’s supposed to over rough trails.
Coilover mounts are the structural points where a coilover suspension shock/strut assembly attaches to the vehicle. In off-road builds, they’re often reinforced because the suspension sees higher loads from bumps and impacts. Mount placement and strength can strongly affect ride quality and handling.
Part
custom tuned coilovers
"[1180.0s] cantilevers, custom tuned coilovers and air pumps. [1183.4s] We've got you covered frame stiffeners, subframes, skid plates,"
Custom tuned coilovers are suspension units set up with specific spring rates and damping characteristics for a particular vehicle and use case. “Tuning” is about matching how the suspension compresses and rebounds to the terrain and driving style. On off-road rigs, this can improve traction and reduce harshness over repeated impacts.
Part
air pumps
"[1180.0s] cantilevers, custom tuned coilovers and air pumps. [1183.4s] We've got you covered frame stiffeners, subframes, skid plates,"
An air pump is what makes an air-suspension system work. It provides compressed air so the suspension can change height or feel. It’s basically the “power source” for air-based suspension parts.
In off-road suspension and ride-height setups, “air pumps” typically refer to the compressor system used to run air springs or air-assisted suspension components. The pump supplies pressurized air so the vehicle can adjust ride height or suspension behavior. This is common in air-ride or air-assisted off-road builds.
Part
skid plates
"We've got you covered frame stiffeners, subframes, skid plates, [1187.2s] shock towers and more to come."
Skid plates are protective covers on the bottom of your vehicle. They help protect the engine, transmission, and other underbody parts from getting hit by rocks or obstacles. They’re a common upgrade for trail driving.
Skid plates are protective metal or composite panels mounted underneath a vehicle to shield vulnerable components from rocks, logs, and debris. They’re especially important for off-road driving where underbody impacts are common. Good skid plate coverage can reduce the chance of expensive damage to the drivetrain and fuel system.
Part
frame stiffeners
"We've got you covered frame stiffeners, subframes, skid plates, [1187.2s] shock towers and more to come."
Frame stiffeners are reinforcement parts that strengthen the truck’s frame. When you drive off-road, the frame can twist a lot, which can make handling feel worse. Stiffeners help the vehicle stay steadier over rough terrain.
Frame stiffeners are reinforcement pieces added to a vehicle’s frame to reduce flex under load. Off-road driving and heavy suspension setups can twist and bend the chassis, which can hurt alignment and ride control. Stiffeners help the suspension stay more consistent when you’re hitting obstacles.
Part
subframes
"We've got you covered frame stiffeners, subframes, skid plates, [1187.2s] shock towers and more to come."
A subframe is an extra structural frame inside/under the vehicle that helps support important parts. Off-road subframes are often stronger so the suspension and armor can be mounted securely. They help the truck handle rough terrain better.
Subframes are secondary structural frames that support specific components like suspension, steering, or body sections. In off-road builds, aftermarket subframes can provide stronger mounting points for suspension and armor. They can also help distribute loads more effectively than the factory structure.
Part
shock towers
"[1187.2s] shock towers and more to come. [1189.8s] Make sure to use coupon code snail trail at four wheel underground.com"
Shock towers are strong mounting points for the top of your shocks. Off-road driving puts a lot of stress on the suspension, so the tower needs to be sturdy. Upgraded shock towers help the suspension stay reliable and controlled.
Shock towers are reinforced mounting structures that provide a strong attachment point for the top of shocks/struts. Off-road suspension setups often require stronger shock towers because the shocks see high loads during compression and rebound. Reinforcing or upgrading them helps maintain suspension geometry and durability.
Select text to request an explanation
Four wheel underground is making some big changes.
They really are. What's really cool about what they're doing right now is they're
kind of changing the way the business is set in the sense that you get to now buy things
all a cart.
Absolutely. So if you want the upper frame bracket, you can just buy that.
Yeah. If you want the lower link bracket, because it has the integrated bump stop and
it's super stout and it looks really good too. You can get just those before you would
have to buy the whole kit. Now you're going to be like, that's the bracket I want.
He's also brought joints in house.
So now you can buy those all a cart from cartridge joints, rebuildable Johnny joints,
hymes, offsets, all sorts of different ones.
Do you know what else he brought in house?
Aluminum links, that's pretty rad.
He found a way to source aluminum links so that there's no extra charge on the suspension kits.
They now all come standard with aluminum links.
I know I'm totally jealous.
And thanks to the all a cart system, you can also order aluminum links if that's all you want.
So if you want to move your Toyota from Lee Springs to a link suspension kit,
check out four wheel underground.
We want to check with you guys today about on X off road.
Definitely one of our favorite apps for off roading.
Yeah, what's better is not only their software, but they also are doing a lot to be a part
of the off roading community here in the country from the trail revival program,
which I actually got to be a part of and use to do some maintenance on the Rubicon Trail too.
They have an elite partnership.
So if you are an on X off road user, you can go to any of their 40 plus partners on there
and you get discounts with any of those partners.
So from bringing the people to the brands to the listeners to everybody involved,
it sounds like they really want to be a part of our community.
So let's be a part of theirs.
Go download on X off road from your favorite app store.
Oh, welcome one.
Welcome all to the snail trail four by four podcast.
If you like going off roading in Toyotas, wrenching on Toyotas, camping in Toyotas,
and maybe even poking a little bit of fun at Toyotas.
And of course, hearing about how fantastic summer wheeling season is in Toyotas,
then this is the podcast for you.
That's right.
This is my name is Tyler and joining me again on the snail trail four by four
podcast episode 700 and twelve is Jimmy.
What up?
That guy.
Hey, good.
Good. How are you doing?
Pretty good, man.
Awesome.
Yeah, I'd hear it.
I had a very productive weekend.
Oh, yep.
Working on the Lance, getting it ready for Father's Day.
Oh, what's going on on Father's Day?
I'm running away.
No, that's the the last and trip.
Oh, right.
Yeah, I'm excited for that.
Yeah, it should be a lot of fun.
So I just have some things I need to get done on the Lance to get it all ready
for that that I've been putting off since KOH.
And sure, I got I got it all done over the weekend.
OK, we'll find out on Thursday.
Man, yeah, I know it's summer, man.
I'm excited.
Yeah, I summers here.
Camping season is on.
It's a wheeling season.
It's a summer wheeling season.
Yeah, that's wheeling season.
No, it's just summer wheeling season.
Yeah, you're missing a whole season here, Jimmy.
Trucks are better.
Nope.
I will say I was happy we had the gladiator when we got it out at
out of Trail Hero X.
Yeah.
But I what were we doing?
We're doing something.
And I was like, God, I'm so glad I have a forerunner right now.
I don't remember what it was now.
It must not have been that impactful, I guess.
Whatever.
Anyways, new topic.
Summer wheeling season is here.
Yes, it is.
And we're going to talk about that and a lot of stuff going on on our trails.
Right.
And this time is the season, especially out here in California, other places.
It might be a little delayed or it might be a little ahead,
depending on where you live, but it's all the same context.
But before we get to any of that and our main topic today, we have a few things to discuss.
We do.
Today, June 1st is the last day to get your group buy in for the Light Ranger 500s.
I still need to do that.
OK, I'll remind you.
Could you do me set a text message up on my phone?
Hey, yeah, that's a good idea.
I love that feature.
Can we talk about that real quick?
Sure. I don't know.
It's very useful.
I don't know if I'm pretty sure every text messaging app now can do this.
Probably.
But mine on my Android, and I'm sure other ones can, too,
you can schedule when to send a text message.
Because there's a lot of times that hustle nuts who wakes up before me
will write me a text message when he's up way early,
but then schedule it not to show up until about eight a.m.
Yeah, and I'll do the same things like if I'm up too early and I send something,
I'm like, oh, I don't want to wake them and I don't want to bother them.
I'll schedule it to be another date.
And we were talking earlier about how we should just schedule ourselves reminders.
And so that when that time comes, we'll be like, oh, I got a text message.
Oh, it says I need to go do that.
Thanks for reminding me, cell phone.
Yeah.
So it's a cool thing that we've really been using a lot of is pretty much
scheduling, using it as almost a scheduling app or like I've been using
based out. Yeah, I've been using it more because I just I do a lot of work at
nighttime. Yeah, because I have to talk to other countries.
And I will I'll have an update for my manager team at Morphley, right?
But like I don't want to burden them with stuff going on at nighttime.
I want them to relax and have time off of work.
Right? Sure.
It's very important to me that all the employees at Morphley have a good
work-life balance.
So I've been trying to use that.
That way I can remember to send them an update and what I've been, what happened
and or some important piece of information that I will probably forget
if I don't send it right now, but without bothering them at 1am or midnight
or whatever it is, it'll just come into their inboxes around 7am.
It saves you the memory of trying to remember to send them.
Yes, it does. For sure.
It's like, oh, I need to remind them about this at such and such a time
or I need to inform them about this right now, right?
Because it's on my mind.
Well, you can do that.
Yeah. And then you can delay when it gets to them, which is really cool.
Yeah. OK. So now that's over.
Very useful.
I don't know why we started talking about that.
I'll do that.
Oh, I'll send your reminder because today is the last day you can get in for the
group buy. Yes.
So go use your discount code.
Go over to DeVos and go get your Light Ranger 500s.
They are amazing little camp lights.
Tyler got to use his the other week when he was out on the Rubicon.
I've now put my that I bought into my rigs and they're sitting there
mainly as like emergency setups, which I think they're going to be great for.
The one in Bobcat, though, I'll definitely be able to pull it out
and use it around camp or set it up in the tent or do whatever I need it with
or to need with it.
I think that's what I was trying to say.
So anyways, go over to DeVos, outdoor.com, use your discount code.
Go get your 25% off for that thing.
Today is the last day.
So go go get it now.
Yep. Right now. Right now.
Let's see. We also June 1st.
That means the giveaway from May is over.
You can no longer get in and signed up for it,
which was the Russo two and a half pound fire extinguisher.
So if you guys missed out on that, sorry, too bad.
So sad. Go buy one.
We will pull a winner for this probably on Thursday.
So yes, we will.
Yeah, keep your holes open to figure out who won the Russo fire extinguisher.
I'm sure whoever wins it will be very happy to have it.
And then if you're holding out to get one to see if you win it or not,
you'll guys will finally be able to go and get one.
So thank you, Russo.
Thank you to those guys for supporting the show and make coming out
with a very useful, very valuable thing for off-roaders.
Yes. And other people who need fire extinguishers,
but really for off-roaders because it solves all, in my opinion,
all of the problems of fire extinguishers for off-roaders.
For sure.
Let's see. We have a giveaway lined up for June, an awesome giveaway.
Pretty freaking sweet with a really cool company that we've mentioned in the past.
And we're working on working with them more.
So we're figuring out right now.
We're talking about what dates we can sit down to have the interview with them.
And it sounds like they want to be supporting this month's giveaway.
It's just a matter of confirming everything, getting the yes, go ahead.
So we're going to keep that one and not tell you guys.
Maybe we will be able to tell you on Thursday.
Let's see. Anything else?
No, I don't think so.
You know, get in for the giveaway if you want to get in for a surprise item
at this month, but you can do that over on I rate four by four.
And that's where you can sign up for it.
We'll be building that set up on Discord fairly soon.
I think it's just a matter of when we can sit down and get
figured that out and get that done. Yeah. Reviews.
We always love reviews and we love bribing you guys to get reviews,
even though, but we're not bribing you for a certain type of review.
Just leave us a review.
Doesn't matter one through five stars, not like that other
podcast that only gives away stuff for five star reviews.
Yeah, they're actually buying their reviews. Yeah.
Dirty.
We're giving away an on ex elite membership when we get to 800 reviews
and we're probably pretty close.
So I think we're going to have to check on Thursday
to make sure we're not already over that.
So get in now.
Make sure they get in for that on ex elite membership at 800.
We're doing another on ex elite membership when we get to 850.
And then we're doing $900 of more flight gear once we get to 900 reviews.
Which is going to be pretty awesome.
I'll be pretty cool.
You're going to win a whole bunch of cool stuff that is not announced yet.
But the only thing that is announced that you will receive
is their new braided hose kits, which are really nice.
And I've got my hands on a few times and I'm a little jealous.
Jimmy does like getting his hands on my hose.
Yes, especially the braided one.
You don't have a braided hose kit yet?
No. Oh, OK. I have the old.
I have the old Flexzilla.
Yeah. No, I'm kidding.
I have a more old one.
It still has the brass center section.
Oh, really?
I thought I just saw one of those somewhere.
We had one sitting around.
I think it's on the front desk.
That's funny.
We have a bunch of the ball valves right there in the.
What was that? The buffer?
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Now I have I have a more flat hose quad kit with the I don't
forgot what you call it where you take.
It's a black anodized center section.
One that I probably laser etched on your machine.
And then you can take the and the hose ends off.
Stubby. Stubby. Stubby.
Yeah, which I really like.
I think you like your stubby.
I swear you should make every single one that one that way.
I think it's it's makes coiling up the hose way easier.
It's not like one long, continuous hose the entire way that you have
to concern yourself with.
And I think it might take a little bit more time to plug everything together.
But it makes things packing things up a lot easier.
OK, that's my two cents. Cool.
Yeah, I know people disagree with me and people do agree with me.
One for sure. But yeah, I don't know.
I like it a lot better.
I think it's simpler, more compact and only more compact
because you can take it apart and fit it in the bag a lot easier.
Yeah, it is. It is far easier to wrap up all the hoses.
My only maybe issue of it, which I don't even think would be a big issue anymore,
is just the couplers.
They just have o-rings and gaskets inside them and just over time.
Inevitably, those are going to go bad.
So you're creating a wear point in the system.
Sure. Well, it's sure.
Good thing that more play has a lifetime warranty.
There you go.
My host kids leaking.
I wonder why it couldn't be because it's nine years old
and things are finally wearing out.
Right. I will say it was pretty funny when I was talking to another company
about their host kids and they were like, do you have one we can borrow?
We just need to use it real quick.
And I was like, what's wrong with yours?
They're like, it's leaking.
And I was like, oh, what's what's happened?
What's it leaking?
They're like, it's leaking from everywhere, more or less everywhere.
More or less everywhere.
And I was like, ah, sounds like you need to do some more R and D
or I can build them all for you guys and you can just white label them off me.
Yeah. I was like, I'm not going to give it to you, though.
You got to go to your own R and D.
Yes. Right.
Totally. That was funny.
Yeah. So go leave us a review.
Go win some more flight gear once we get to 900 reviews.
Who knows at the rate it's going, but it hopefully for the winner,
it's going to be after Black Friday
so that you can win this cool new product that I'm excited for,
which I actually have no idea what it is.
But Tyler said I should be excited.
You should. Everybody should be very excited.
So I'm excited.
We've already changed up how inflation and deflation is done
and viewed in the world really on a global scale.
And we're about to do it again.
So that's awesome.
That's all I'm going to say.
It's it'll be huge, a huge, the hugest thing ever.
Nice.
Anyway, so that'll be.
And even if we like get to 900 before that releases,
I'll still make sure you guys got one.
So it's it's all part of it.
So sweet.
Um, all righty.
That's a giveaways and all the cool stuff we got going on at giveaways.
Let's see anything.
I got one more thing.
Oh, OK.
So I talked to Trevor WFO.
No, Clark Clark.
OK, our one of our snail squad members.
He is two tokens away in his letters
for winning the gear wrench master mechanics tool set.
Yeah. And unfortunately for him,
I asked him what letters he needed.
He needs some letters that aren't doubled.
Well, so he went out to a spot the other day
and he was trying to find it and he couldn't find it.
So I need to go check on something.
But I sent him a photo of where one might be.
And he said, I saw that.
I didn't look around it, though.
I was like, oh, bummer.
But yeah, we have our first person
that is doing our treasure hunt tokens search,
the one that's really doing it seriously.
Oh, I know a few other people that are once
and once or twice going out and find something.
But Trevor, who's like really adamant about searching these things.
And actually, I think he's really enjoying it
because he's going to different places that wouldn't kind of normally go.
Which is the whole goal of doing the treasure hunt in the first place.
Yeah, two away is what he said.
So that's a big point.
I'm excited for it.
I'm excited for him.
And I'm excited to get that massive box out of my shop.
Fair. Well, I'll take it out of your shop for you.
You know, I'm there anymore.
I could probably put it on the snail trail.
Back, back, back, back there.
Put up some space for me.
I know. Yeah, we should.
I need to go through that rack and do some organization.
Just there's like what's in there.
It was just empty boxes back there now.
I think so. Yeah. Yeah.
OK, cool. Well, yeah.
And if you want to know where the discount or the tokens are,
you need to get on to the Discord
because the Discord has a link directly to the Onyx file
that has all the tokens on it.
And so you need to go on to the disk, get on to the Discord
to go to the tokens thread.
And then you can go download the file or get connected to the file
for where the tokens are with your Onyx device.
And then any time you log into Onyx, you can see the tokens.
And if there will be any tokens around you,
maybe you should go on a little hike or go on a four by four trip
or go on a paddle boarding trip or go way down the Cane Creek or something.
And you might be near a token, you just never know.
Yeah. And that file is a live file.
That's kind of one of the cool things about Onyx
and the way that we set up the treasure hunt under using Onyx's system.
So when Jimmy and I add tokens to the folder,
we just go and add them directly to the folder
because we both have edit access for that folder.
And so it'll just randomly get updated.
It doesn't. I don't know if it sends a notification out to anybody
if it gets updated, but you'll just see a new waypoint got added.
If you look at the history of the folder,
which you should be able to view as a view only access to them.
So which is what we have the public access set for.
So go and check it every once in a while
and kind of pay attention to what, you know, the last token to drop in there was.
And if you open it up and there's a new token now,
you can go and see where it's located
and see if you want to go out and adventuring that weekend.
Yeah, I don't know the exact number, but I know we're in multiple states.
Yeah. So, yeah, I know that there's tons.
I've sent some now to Tennessee.
I've sent some to Maine.
I've sent some to Florida.
And then I know a lot of the West Coast is covered and I've hidden two in Hawaii.
Nice. So there's definitely some around.
It's just maybe not exactly in your area.
I tried to send some to Canada with our listener.
That is that's part of the gift boxes.
But unfortunately, the coasters that,
which is what I labeled them as for international stuff are too thick.
Yeah, our tokens are too thick to be classified as coasters.
Wow. And sending raw wood internationally.
So we'll have to figure out another way,
whether it's olive oil or what?
Yeah, but we'll figure out a way to get some to Canada.
All right.
That's it, I think.
Cool. All right.
Then that is it.
We'll take a quick break and we'll be right on back with Tiz the season.
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Welcome back ladies and germs
to today's campfire discussion.
This one's kind of a cool one.
I think it's a it's one that's very important to Jimmy and I
because we love off-roading.
We love the trails.
We love going out and enjoying trails and we love making sure that
trails stay around for other people to enjoy just as much as we do.
And that's a big kind of goal for the show here in the podcast is
help make people aware and help make people
know, help be known of what you can do and what actions you can take kind of thing
in your area and the different levels of action that you can take.
So that your trails and the ones that you guys all care about
stay healthy and stay sustainable and stay in a well maintained process
so that everybody in your area and everybody coming in from out of your area
gets to go and enjoy them in perpetuity.
So we are past Memorial Day.
Yes, we are.
And typically Memorial Day every year
kind of marks the beginning of the summer
Wheeling season, camping season, the camping season. Sure.
I don't even like that.
That's so it depends on what genre you're in.
Yeah, it's the beginning of summer.
It's like significant,
signifies signifies late in the day.
Yeah, excuse highlights the beginning of the outdoor season.
Yeah, I guess let's let's make it even more broad.
Yeah, the campers want to go camping.
You know, the backpackers go backpacking.
The horse riders go horse riding.
The snowmobiliers put their stuff away.
Yeah, right.
You know, I said last Thursday, I met up with Jason Green.
He said he hung up his boots the other day because it's no longer skiing season.
So maybe now they'll have some podcasts come out.
Who knows? Maybe.
Shots fired.
What? What? What?
But yeah, I mean, winter is done.
People are done with that season.
They're hanging up their winter stuff and they're pulling out the summer stuff.
And that means there's a lot of things that are going on in the off-roading
community that have to do with the start of the season.
Yep. Yeah, there's there's things from that you just need to be aware of out there
and things that you can help out with.
This is kind of the season for getting everything ready, right?
A lot of times for service personnel
don't even really like start working out in the field much until Memorial Day.
A lot of campgrounds don't get staffed until Memorial Day.
Like Memorial Day is typically the first weekend that Rubicon Springs is open each year.
And so there's it's just like it's like the kickoff, right?
Yes, it's the kickoff for the Super Bowl is for everybody that loves the outdoors.
Memorial Day is that kickoff every year for the Super Bowl of summer camping
and outdoor activities.
I mean, Labor Day is the conclusion.
I think so. I think Labor Day is when it starts winding down for sure.
OK, yeah.
So anyways, there's certain things that you can kind of look out for, right?
Going on around this time of year, a little earlier into a little later.
There's a lot of trail maintenance projects going on for sure.
So we already did one section of the Rubicon Trail.
The Mad Hatters got out and we did our Adopt-a-Trail section,
which was the Wetmore Springs in from the campground to the inner tie.
There's other Adopt-a-Trail sections on the Rubicon
that are going to be now getting their work done.
There's work parties going on with friends of Fort Ice.
They did a big work party the same weekend we were doing our Adopt-a-Trail stuff.
Did I say friends of Fort Ice?
You did.
Friends of Rubicon.
OK, they had a big work weekend.
Friends of Fort Ice.
Before you go there, just because it just concluded this last weekend,
the Slick Rock got their trail maintenance got done.
Oh, cool. Yep. Nice.
So there's a lot of trail maintenance stuff going on,
which is some people see it as a negative.
They do, right?
But some people some people see it as a positive.
And the thing is, it's all we're just maintaining the trail, right?
There are a lot of the trails around public land,
but the public land is owned by like the government, right?
And the government has to
like do check its own checks and balances.
And it listens to a lot of different organizations
to figure out if the land is being maintained correctly.
And unfortunately, to us off-roaders,
usually the one that the hammer that comes down on off-roaders
is from the water board.
Yeah. And California, for sure.
And so the water board is all I don't know why they're always out
for off-road trails or and trails in general.
I'm not sure if they're really after the backpackers or horse trails
or as much as they are off-road trails.
But we have to do our maintenance here in California
to peas the water board industry.
Yeah.
And so a lot of it comes down to being able to if we don't do this,
the trail will close.
Yeah. Right.
And so a lot of the maintenance that goes on on our trails out
in our general area is all for water mitigation.
And so it's it's really a good thing.
So I'm super big thanks to the Mad Hatters
for going to do cleaning out their their puddles.
What do you call those things?
The dissipators, rock energy dissipators.
That's better than what I was going to call it.
But cleaning out those big thanks to I forgot who maintains the slick rock trail.
Not as pretty for the Highlanders.
Yeah, I forgot who it is.
But I just was talking to Nick DeLuca and they were out this last weekend
doing their maintenance.
So big thanks for them for cleaning and maintaining those trails.
There is going to be a big work party on and a big thing happening
on Ford ice, which is where you can take it away from there.
Yeah. So Ford ice.
There's a couple of work projects going on this year
that are stemming from some of the work that was done on Barrett Lake last year.
And this is so cool to me.
Like we talked a little bit about the Blop project, the Barrett Lake Outhouse project.
And it was it was this really, really cool
rad opportunity where there was a big problem at Barrett Lake
that the Barrett Lake off-road trail where the bathrooms at the lake
were they were done, they were toast.
They were they were way full.
They weren't there was no feasible way to pump them out.
The the the pit toilet there.
The quote unquote shanty that was around the toilet.
Yeah, which is really like three and a half walls and and a little platform.
That was in disrepair and like parts of it were falling apart.
It was it was just a really bad situation.
And it was already bad like two to three years ago.
And then it got worse.
And then a big windstorm came through and some trees fell on it,
which which really kind of completely knocked it out of any kind of usage whatsoever.
Sounds like the vault toilet that was at the undisclosed location.
Yeah, very similar.
It's like that thing was done.
And then the forest fire dropped a tree on it.
Now it's just sealed up and really done.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, the the Forest Service, Alderado National Forest was looking at this.
And another big thing is going on right now.
That is not getting talked about as much as it should.
The administration right now is completely restructuring the Forest Service.
And I don't know enough about it and what's going on
to really talk to you guys about it and properly inform you.
So I don't want to say too much about it, but we used to have a regional office
for Alderado National Forest, Tahoe National Forest, Stannislaus National Forest.
What are some of the other forests up here in this area?
Yeah, I don't whatever other forests, other forests, pretty much had a regional office.
All the forests had these like regional offices that were pretty local to the forests
that everything got reported to you.
All the work got done out of all the the projects and
the work orders got processed through and a lot of those regional offices
are getting shut down and closed nationwide.
Our closest regional office for Alderado National Forest, Tahoe National Forest,
Stannislaus National Forest is in Salt Lake City, Utah now.
Really? Wow.
That's how far away the closest regional office is going to be.
That's crazy.
And so that means that people that live and work in Salt Lake City, Utah
are going to have a direct say as to what happens
in our forests here in Northern California, which
some could argue that could be a good thing.
But like it's not boots on the ground.
It's not like there's nobody from the regional office
that's going to fucking come out to Alderado National Forest and look around
and be like, oh, yeah, this trail is just fine.
I don't know what people are complaining about.
Yeah, because that's you go back to I don't know why off road trails
are always the ones that get picked on by the state water board.
It's because hikers and people that don't like mechanized access
complain to the agencies about the off road trails.
Sure. And nobody goes and complains about the hikers trails
and the horseback trails and all this other stuff
because off road is like, we don't give a fuck about that.
We don't care if you guys go enjoy your trails.
We're we just want to go enjoy our trails.
Leave us alone.
So we don't want to deal with government agencies.
But because we are that way,
we have a bad problem of not being able to stand up to ourselves
with the agencies because we don't want to be involved with agencies.
So anyways, it's going to leave a lot of the
maintenance projects, the
demands to fix a trail.
So the state water board is happy, whatever.
It's going to leave it all up to people
that aren't aren't even in the area to see what's actually happening on the ground.
And we saw this happen at Gemini bridges and Labyrinth rims,
the BLM out of Moab, the BLM office,
local to Gemini bridges and Labyrinth rims
did not go out and look at the trails that they were closing
and leaving open in the 400 and 26 mile shutdown around there.
All the trails in the Wemo shutdown, 2200 fucking miles.
Nobody's gone and looked at all those.
They just looked at a map and Arbor trails like, yeah, let's close that one,
let's close out and those are all local offices.
You think somebody from Salt Lake City is going to come out to Sacramento
and look at look at trails and see what's going on.
No, it's projects. No, they're not.
So that's why this huge restructuring of the National Forest Service,
I think needs to get more airtime.
I really want to look into it and see exactly what's going on.
But because of this,
we now more than ever as an off-roading community and industry
all the vendors, all the merchants,
everybody out there in this in this industry, all the users, all the users.
We need to step up now while this restructuring is happening
and claim our space with volunteerism.
I think that there's going to be a massive shift in how work gets done in a forest,
how and what dictates trails stay open
because the Forest Service isn't going to have the budget to work on trails.
No, they're just not.
Everything's getting cut back.
They don't right now.
They don't right now.
And they're getting cut back way more.
Yeah.
So in order for trails to properly stay maintained so that they can stay open
so that a geologist looks at it and says,
oh, yeah, this trail is not going to fall apart anytime soon.
Or the state water board comes in and says,
oh, yeah, there's water runoff and mitigation of silt into the watershed
in this area is not a big problem.
In order for those to be passed and okayed with no maintenance going on,
it's going to be impossible.
And the Forest Service is not going to be able to maintain them.
And volunteerism is how I think the future is going to have to be,
at least for the short term, in keeping our trails open.
So we have a lot of stuff going on around NorCal and a lot of projects.
And I'm sure there's a lot of projects going on around the country
that you guys can get involved with.
I'm sure that everybody out there has been on a trail recently
and been inundated with downed trees or big mud pits, mud holes
from the spring water, melt, snow, melt, runoff, right?
The spring showers and rain, any kind of stuff like that
is a concern to land managers,
but land managers don't have budgets to fix them.
So go and ask your land managers about volunteering.
There are definitely volunteer programs at all your Forest Service locations,
at all your forests, all your ranger districts.
And I am really kind of excited because El Dorado National Forest,
the current Forest Supervisor, really wants to,
in his tenure here with the, in the Forest Supervisor position,
he wants to set up more of an active volunteer programs.
OK.
Within El Dorado National Forest and that are going to be longstanding
and built into the travel management plans.
Cool.
So I'm really excited to see what he can do with that.
And I'm trying to help grease the gears to make sure
that off-road trails are prioritized in those volunteer programs.
Minimum a part of it, minimum part of it.
Right. So we need a spot at the table.
So, yeah, now is the opportunity to get involved with your forest,
get involved with your local trails.
If you have a trail near you, that's like,
you love going to once a year, a couple of times a year,
but like you've been going there since you were a kid
and it means something to you.
Now is the time to step up and talk to your National Forest,
your local ranger district, your BLM land managers, whoever it is,
and say that you want to help out with that trail
and start a volunteer program with that trail,
whether it's an adopt a trail program or something else
that that forest has done that's worked in the past.
Now it's time to do it and also look around for local off-road clubs
that are doing those projects and get involved with them.
The more I'm a huge fan of adopt a trail programs
because there's no better way to instill
responsibility and accountability for something
than having somebody build it themselves.
When they put in that blood, sweat and tears, equity into something,
they really take a really pride of ownership of it, right?
And pride that it's going to continue being a great thing into the future.
And so that's what I think the biggest and most important part
of adopt trail programs are.
So if you see one going on, go get involved with it.
It's pretty cool, A, because most of the people in our off-roading world
love working with our hands.
We love getting dirty. We love moving rocks around.
We love playing with chainsaws.
We love using pickaxes to dig rocks out and big ass pry bars to be like,
dude, I moved this 2000 pound rock by myself. That's so cool.
Or winches and utilizing winches to do work.
It's a pretty fun community.
And I think you get to do some pretty cool stuff in some pretty cool environments.
And everybody should have the opportunity to go do that.
Not only the opportunity, I agree 100%.
I think that you should have the opportunity to do that.
But I also agree that you, I mean, I want to just say that you should go and do that
because not only is it great for the land, trail,
but it also want to give you a little bit of ownership over what you're doing.
But also we need it as a community.
Like there's not enough of us going out and volunteering to do trail work
for the amount of trails that we have available in our area.
There's more trails.
We could probably have more trails open to us than are currently open
just because if we had more volunteers, we could go more places
and go to different places if there was more volunteers out here.
I know that Jason Green is, I don't know what club that he does,
but he has his work party coming up.
It's Crawl Hollow.
Crawl Hollow.
That's a spree to four.
Is it?
Yep.
Okay.
Where's the granite bandits?
I don't know.
I think it's the granite bandits.
Potato, potato.
Yeah.
I'm not sure which one it is 100%.
But it's June 12th through 14th.
If you're interested in being a part and volunteering and going out
and helping the Crawl Hollow area, get in contact with Jason from
Wheeling and Wine and Whiskey.
Probably the best way to get in contact with him is through
Instagram, Wheeling and Wine and Whiskey.
I know his is coming up and every year they say they open more roads
than the county has asked them to do.
And then that allows them to go more places and the county always comes
back to him and goes like, they're thankful.
They're appreciative.
They really like, they say, thanks, we need this.
We don't have enough people to do this work.
And he said, if we had like four or five more groups of that,
like what they do, they could open the entire area.
But the thing is we, there's not enough people going out.
There's not enough volunteers.
There's not enough happening.
And there's too much work out there, which is weird to say, right?
There's too many trails available to us.
But the thing is, if we're not going to use them,
if we're not going to maintain them,
then we're just going to lose them flat out.
Yep.
And so we need, we need volunteers.
For sure.
1000%.
So the Corral Hollow one with a pretty sure it's a spree to four
that does Corral Hollow because they got a big grant and bought some
big chain saws.
That's a kind of a higher elevation trail that has a ton of trees that
comes down on it every single year.
They're always doing a ton of tree work.
So that's a really good one.
The Barrett Lake Outhouse Project Blop.
There's not a whole lot of work that needs to be done with the
outhouses themselves.
They got, they were really phenomenally done.
And what's been really cool about that project is the Forest
Service loves volunteer labor,
but they don't necessarily trust volunteers to do high risk things
like build a something that's going to hold a human waste, right?
Or, you know, build a fence somewhere or our,
a kiosk somewhere, right?
They want, they want to make sure that whatever is built and
structures put in place that it's up to Forest Service standards,
which is a good thing, I think,
but I think that it's too bad that they don't trust and they don't want
to take the time to vet volunteers to make sure that volunteers
can do that work up to the standards.
They'd rather just say, eh, don't worry about it.
We'll take care of it.
And then it gets put on the back burner because they never get budget to do it,
right?
But this outhouse project that Barrett Lake was a really,
really rad example because it showed that when the community comes
together to build something and it's,
and there's clear standards from the Forest Service and good
relationship there of what needs to get built, how it needs to get built,
how it needs to get implemented,
what are the rules that need to be followed?
The off-road community in came up with a really,
really cool solution that follows all the rules that the Forest Service
put out and we implemented it.
We funded it and got it all done without really the Forest Service
having to lay a finger, put any money down,
do a ton of paperwork for it all through the volunteer projects,
the volunteer program with the Forest Service, right?
And now that those bathrooms have been in place for a season,
the Forest Service and surrounding Forest Service are like,
that was a pretty fucking cool project, you guys.
Can you come do that in our forest?
Yeah, it seems to be popping up in a few different places now that
we have proven ourselves,
that the off-roading community has proven themselves
that we're willing to put in the work, the time and the money.
Forest services in the area are interested in working with us
and doing similar projects in their neighborhood,
their neck of the woods.
And we have a good example of that coming up.
With Friends of Fortis,
which is where we kind of started this whole tirade.
So the bathrooms at Barrett Lake have been requested to be copied
and then installed at a couple different places on Fortis.
So they're going to try and put a set of bathrooms down at Committee Crossing
and a set of bathrooms.
They're looking at Windchill 3.
So those are the two popular places on the trail for people to hang out all night long.
I would say they should put one at one also.
So I think those are the two spots right now slated for Fortis.
I would not surprise me if they end up eventually putting one at every Windchill.
Yeah, I agree.
But it's Tahoe National Forest,
which is what's really also cool about this is that whole Barrett Lake project
was done just in El Dorado National Forest.
And Tahoe National Forest has looked at it and said,
that was really cool.
That solves a very big problem and you guys did it beautifully.
Come copy that over here in our forest as well.
And if you know anything about working with different National Forests,
they don't typically like to work together very much.
No, they don't.
They're very localized and they're very much like,
no, this is my lawn.
You get the fuck out of here.
But they're all in the same team.
I agree.
I agree.
It's always maybe.
You're all trying to protect the land.
Why do you argue?
Yeah, I've never understood it, but it's the way they do.
So it's been really cool to see.
Maybe it's a Jeeps in Toyota thing.
We're all trying to have fun out in the wilderness,
but you just drive the wrong vehicle.
Right.
That's probably what it is.
You guys are in the wrong forest.
Yeah.
Your forest has pine trees.
Mine has redwoods.
So anyways, to see Tahoe National Forest step up and acknowledge
that the Blob Project was awesome and that it solves a very needed problem.
A very necessary problem.
Then to then copy it and just say, hey, the groundwork has been laid.
We don't have to rebuild the process.
Just copy over the process.
What we did at Aldera National Forest.
So that's really cool for Tahoe to stop up and step up and do that.
Right.
And it shows that when you put in the work and the groundwork to
play by the rules with land managers,
some extra doors start getting opened.
So the Barrett Lake outhouse projects are also,
the Blob is also going to get copied and put up in Placer County
on the Tahoma side of the Rubicon at observation point.
Okay.
Cool.
Yeah.
So we're looking at three more sets of Blob bathrooms.
Two on Ford Island.
And that's still Tahoe National Forest, right?
I don't know where the cutoff for Tahoe National Forest is.
If it's the same cutoff as the Placer and Alderado County or not.
I'm going out on a limb and saying yes.
I would imagine it's because you've got Alderado County and
Alderado National Forest and you've got Placer County and Tahoe National Forest.
I would imagine all that kind of changes hands around the same location.
Right.
I just don't know for sure.
I should know that and I'm sorry that I don't.
But it very well could be, if that, it would make sense if Tahoe is like,
hey, let's get a couple of these bathrooms on Ford ice and let's put one
up at observation.
Yeah, right.
But that's interesting that they aren't they also not choosing to update their
to RS247.
That's Placer County.
Oh, yeah.
Not the forest.
Not the Forest Service.
That's only a county thing RS2477.
Which is really too bad.
And all the arguments surrounding the reroute, like I drove through the
reroute this year and I drove through it last year and I was kind of like,
yeah, yeah, I get it.
I see it kind of thing.
But driving through it this year after I've learned a little bit more about
it since last Memorial Day.
I'm like, this whole fucking side of this hill is going to be go.
Yeah.
Like you're driving through it's very once you like understand that this
section here right next to McKinney Creek is on the side of a hill.
It's not in bedrock.
And it's just like, you just look at the whole side of the hill and you're
like, I don't know how this hasn't already gone.
Kind of thing.
So, and I think that could be the other argument, but yeah, continue on.
But a lot of people are saying that we can't do the reroute because we
don't know what that's going to do to RS2477 rights.
And the big problem right now is that the current part of the trail is in
that we're looking at is in Placer County and Placer County is already
not reestablishing their RS2477 rights.
So like technically that part of the trail doesn't have any RS2477 rights
right now.
Interesting.
And the fact that the county really wants nothing to do with the off-roading
community at the moment Placer County and Tahoe National Forest does.
I think everybody should be flocking to Tahoe National Forest.
Yeah.
Cause they're the ones that are like, no, let's let's take care of this
problem.
And I want the off-road community involved with solving this problem.
That way we make a solution that works for you guys,
not just for what we need as a forest.
Yeah.
And it's surprising to me that people are still fighting that.
Sure.
Anyways, that's off topic.
Moving back.
Yeah.
The trail maintenance projects, they're all around man.
And there's going to be a couple coming up for Ford Ice.
I think this year.
Yes.
Also a big thing that comes to trail maintenance project is funding the
projects.
And I want to give another huge shout out to on X off-road and their
trail revival program.
It is launched.
It is live.
You can go and submit grants as,
which is essentially a request for money to get a project done.
Right.
To work on a trail maintenance project of some sort.
And they're doing it in like $5,000 chunks,
which is really impressive.
And for something that's like a basic, you know,
we need the forest service needs help making a kiosk here or there.
The $5,000 is more than plenty to build that kiosk,
feed everybody, pay for hand tools out there,
pay for maybe his concrete to go in to solidify the foundation of the
kiosk, whatever it is.
It's a really cool program.
And I submitted for last year for our adopted trail stuff.
And got it right away.
They're really cool about everything that a couple of stipulations that
had to be followed,
but that's going to be in any grant process.
Sure.
And the stipulations they're asking for are really just like media.
Just get pictures of people there and show how this maintenance
project is having an impact, a positive impact for the off-roading
industry and community.
That's really their request, the gist of it.
So very easy to deal.
So if you guys see a trail out near you that needs some work and
you realize that the forest service is not really doing much to
maintain it, it's getting really overgrown.
You're seeing a bunch of mud puddles everywhere.
You're seeing trash all over.
You're seeing a bathroom that's run down and not maintained,
whatever it is, try and reach out to your local Ranger district,
your national forest, and see what needs to be done.
What is the scope of work that's really slated and needed for that
trail?
They probably have a work order in their system for something on
that trail.
They just can't get to it because they don't have the budget.
They don't have the manpower to go and do it, right?
Yes, exactly.
If you can just figure out who the right people are to talk to
and start those conversations and always do everything from asking
questions.
Don't try and assume anything or make statements.
Come from the position of you have no clue what's going on.
You're just trying to understand it all.
Usually forest service love educating people and talking to
people about the forest.
You just got to keep that conversation open and don't do
anything to try and shut them down.
Don't close the door.
And then once you kind of figure out the scope of the work that needs
to get done, then you try to start looking at, okay, well, how
much money would this cost?
How many labor hours is this going to cost?
And you can go and try and figure all that out and then be like,
okay, I think a group of 10 people should be able to get all this
work done in one day.
And then you can go and apply for grants from programs like on
X's trail revival program.
Tread lightly has grants as well.
I believe BFG also has grants available for trail projects.
You can go apply for these grants to figure out, you know, how do you
fund this project now?
So it's a pretty cool potential shift we have happening right now
that I think everybody in this off-road industry needs to be
aware of.
And the more that we can take action right now and not just be
aware of the problems, but really make a step forward to taking
action on the problems.
I think it's going to do wonders for slating the off-road
industry and community into future whatever managing rules
happens for national forests through this massive restructuring
that's going on right now.
Yeah, I think that, I mean, for me, it all comes down to manpower.
It just comes down to like, we need an organizer, an
orchestrator, but then it comes down to manpower after that.
We need the person that's going to be designing or figuring out
what needs to get done and work with the Forest Service or the
county.
And then we need the manpower to get that stuff done.
So I really do think my call is like just to volunteer, get out
there, help one way or another.
If you can't help donate, donate tools, donate time one way or
another or donate some money, buy people lunches or give them
money so that they can buy rock or whatever it is.
It all comes down to we have to get out there.
We have to put the boots on the ground and we need to get the
work done.
And that's how we're going to be able to keep our trails open.
Yep.
Yeah, it goes a long way.
We, you know, it does.
It goes a long way.
Having those relationships, maintaining those relationships
and proving to the land managers that the community is not here
to be as destructive as other communities make us out to be.
That's, I think, the biggest thing we need to overcome.
And I think that we're in a unique opportunity right now with
this forestry structure to kind of make a big impact with that.
I think that we definitely still need the litigation side of
things that blue ribbon coalition and other organizations that
are fighting litigation problems.
We absolutely need those too.
But I think that we're at a very unique point in history where
there's a lot of things happening with our public lands and
our national forests and BLM and state parks, national parks,
et cetera, that is going to open the doors to opportunity for
the off-road community.
And it's going to be opening the doors to a lot of outdoor
enthusiast groups and the ones that show up to the table the
most and make the loudest impact are the ones that are going to
really set themselves up for a very successful outdoor
recreation future.
So be aware, show up, take some action and be a part of
the community to set us up for an even better community here,
I think coming into the near future.
If you guys have any questions about specific processes that
have worked in NorCal and how you guys can translate that to
different parts of the country, definitely reach out.
I'm not an expert by any means, but I feel like I keep getting
myself involved with land managers here in NorCal.
And I have a decent idea of what they're looking for now and
what are their carrots to get them to start looking at the
off-road community as a partner rather than an enemy of land
managers.
So reach out.
I love having those conversations.
So how, where would somebody go to find something to volunteer
for?
The only idea that I necessarily have is reach out to the, if
there is an adopt a trail on the trail that you enjoy going to
reach out to whoever's organizing and managing that adopt a trail,
the club that is involved with it.
And then you can ask to volunteer because you just want to help
out and be a part of helping keep that trail open.
You don't have to join the club most of the time.
Most of the time it's just they want extra hands and need to
help, but they might ask you to join the club or something.
But that's really the only way.
Like what if it's like, what if you just want to volunteer in the
forest or volunteer in an area?
You have any idea?
I would say there's two ways to do it.
Yeah.
One is reach out to your local Ranger district.
Okay.
And just start asking questions.
Hey, this trail over here, whatever, whatever it's called.
Trail X.
Trail X.
Trail Hero X.
Trail X.
Who, who, is there anybody that has an adopt a trail on that?
Is there anybody that helps take care of maintaining that trail?
What is your guys's?
Do you guys have a maintenance protocol for that trail?
They'll usually say yes.
I don't know if the front desk person is typically the one you're
going to need to talk to.
I think you're going to have to get in two to three different layers
to really get to the people you need to be talking to.
But as long as you keep asking questions and being inquisitive
and come up with questions that that person can't answer,
you'll eventually get to somebody who can't answer everything.
That's one of the really cool things I think about the Forest
Services.
They love educating.
They love answering questions.
So if you keep everything question-based, eventually you'll
get to the person that can't answer all the questions for you.
And so I would say that's one way to attack it.
Another way to attack it is Facebook groups.
Okay.
There's a Facebook group for fucking everything.
Yeah.
Sure.
Say you're looking for a Facebook group for Sand Hollow Utah.
Facebook search is Sand Hollow Utah groups.
And I guarantee you there's going to be five plus groups that'll
pop up for whatever named area you have in your area.
Maybe there's an OHV writing area that you're really interested
in helping out with.
You can just search that on Facebook and a group I'm sure is
probably and it's going to be people that are interested and go
play at that area often and want to know what's happening at that
area, want updates on that area, want to know if somebody got
injured recently or is there something that they need to be
aware of next time they go out.
It's a big informational resource spot.
And I would say those would be the other good places to check in
with other user groups, users of that area and just say,
is anything like this going on?
Yeah.
You know, is there any like volunteer cleanup help days for
Sand Hollow that anybody knows of?
Right.
Maybe there's like two big ones a year.
I don't, I don't know.
And if there's not, and if you really like nobody, everybody's
like, no, no, no, nothing like that exists, then start raising
questions like how many of you guys out there would want to see
something like this?
Yeah.
You know, we would go out there and play here all the time.
You know, why not put in a little bit of effort to let's make it
a little bit better place.
Right.
I think anybody who's really passionate about outdoor
recreation and a specific place they like to go play a lot,
that'd be a no brainer to be like, sure.
No fuck.
Yeah.
Let's go do something for here.
That's what's happening at Moon Rocks right now.
The movement, the movement to it's been really interesting.
There was one year.
I want to say it was a Memorial Day.
It was either Memorial Day or Fourth of July.
Four years ago.
Banana man.
No.
It was before banana.
It was like one or two years before banana man where just
Moon Rocks got absolutely destroyed.
Yeah.
They're trash everywhere, shit everywhere.
And it became the spot where like the land manager out there,
I think it's BLM was like, this isn't this isn't good.
And they were going to shut the whole place down.
Yeah.
And the community got together.
And since then have really turned Moon Rocks around in my opinion.
There's trash management at Moon Rocks.
Now they, the BLM has since because the place has been getting
kept open, they've kept maintained by the community.
Yep.
They've left camping open.
They've left access open.
And there's a big work party coming up for Moon Rocks to put up trail
signs.
It was this last week.
Oh.
Well, there's always a big cleanup the weekend after Memorial Day
weekend.
So there might be, there might be putting in installing signs for
the different obstacles at Moon Rocks.
Oh, cool.
I think maybe this weekend with the big Memorial Day cleanup weekend.
Okay.
Horton was telling me about it last weekend for where this podcast
is released, but upcoming weekend for us in reality.
So maybe you want to spin reality.
Yeah, I'll need to, I would need to look up and confirm dates on
that.
I was talking with Horton about it.
Yeah.
Out on the Rubicon who's telling me that they wanted to put in
something like 32 signs to for named obstacles out at Moon Rocks
and BLM was giving them permission to do it.
That's awesome.
So I think that just goes to show that if we show up, show we're
serious, show that, you know, there's a lot of really cool
skills and people that work in the trades and know how to do some
really cool shit in the off road community.
And that land managers have reason to trust us with those.
I think it's going to, it's going to open more and more doors.
And we're seeing that impact right now in Barrett Lake at
Fordyce or Rubicon at Moon Rocks all over the place.
So get active, be aware, get active and look to see what you
can do as we go through this big transition where Forest Service
is going to be begging for help.
If they're not already, I already know some people in the Forest
Service that are like, we are fucked.
So the more that we can help them out and stand up for our stuff,
I think the more likely that we're going to keep our stuff and
maybe get more stuff in the future throughout this big
restructure.
So yeah, there's, and this is a possibility, but there is a big
possibility that we could be the boots on the ground for
the organization, the district office that is located in
Salt Lake City.
They might be reaching out to, you know, the person that is the
most active in that area that is willing to report back to the
district office will be the boots on the ground person.
Possibly.
And so there's an opportunity for the off road community to be
that those people, which is really weird.
It is.
It is really weird, but it's also a really cool opportunity.
I mean, we don't know where this is going to go.
I don't think this has ever been done before.
So there's no precedence.
There's no roadmap for how this is going to work out.
Everything with the Forest Service has always been about
expansion and maintaining our forests for the public interest,
right?
And we're moving away from that right now.
And it's going to be really interesting to see how this all
plays out.
But I think that the people that make the most effort to be at
the table right now are the ones that are going to have the most
opportunity and the most reward for the work that they're putting
in right now.
They bring to the table.
They're bringing to the table.
Exactly.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
And I think like it all starts now, right?
I mean, it's all, we have to be acting right now because they're
in their transition.
If we're going to act later, things, people might step over us.
People might be ahead of us.
And so we really have to start acting now.
You guys need to start volunteering, whether you're not the contact
person or you're just the person that's, you know, using a shovel
or whatever it is, you know, that you have to be part of this.
Like the community needs it.
We need to keep our trails open.
We need to keep, you know, things going.
We need to keep the community alive and informed so that we can
continue to have our trails continue to do the things we enjoy,
continue to go camping on the land that is open to the public.
And we need to figure out a way to keep it open to the public.
I guess, but yeah, it's, it is a really interesting time.
Yep.
So there's our PSA for today and I just rant for Monday.
Just kick off June for you guys and kick off the summer wheeling,
summer camping, somewhere outdoor activities season.
Just keep that in mind as you're wheeling around as you're out enjoying
your lands this summer.
As you're out going out camping, as you're looking for campgrounds
and places to go to ask yourself, you know, what could I, what
look around and be like, what could I do?
What skill sets do I have?
What do I bring to the table that could help make this area better?
And then see how you can work into existing structure or create
your own structure.
If you really care that much about the area that you're in.
So reach out to us.
We love having those conversations with people and we'll help grease
the gears however we can on our end too.
I don't, we don't have a ton of influence, but we have quite a bit
of experience now.
So whatever we can do to help you guys in your parts of the country,
take care of the spots that you love going to.
Let us know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you have a work party or some, some sort of volunteering action
coming up, reach out to us too.
Cause we'll be happy to talk about it, promote it, put it on the
discord and everything so that more people are informed about it.
And more, hopefully we can bring some people out to volunteer as well.
I mean, you know, you've ran your work party before and you've said,
you know, like when you have 15 people, it takes a few hours,
but you had like nine people this last time and it almost doubled
the amount of time.
So it's, it's one of, it's just one of those things like many,
many hands makes light work.
And if you have fun time too, like it never, it never really feels
like a super heavy manual labor, like where everybody's just down
because they're so fucking worn out at the end of the day.
It's always a lot of fun.
Sure.
Absolutely.
And you don't, a lot of them go for a day or two.
And you, if you have the time, you could just volunteer for a few hours.
Like it's just show up and do the amount of time or the amount of
effort that you can.
And that's all that anybody ever asks.
Yup.
That's it.
That's volunteer life, man.
That's how volunteer organizations work.
You, you take what you can get out of your volunteers.
You don't push them any harder further.
So sweet.
If you guys have questions about that, let us know.
You guys know where to find us through Instagram, email, discord.
Shit.
We could even put up some work parties on discord.
Or if you guys are curious about where to access the,
the on access trail revival program grants or the BFG grants or
tread lightly grants, any of those, you know, speak out on discord.
I will gladly hunt those down and make them easy to get to for you guys.
If that's what you want.
So reach out to us there.
It's an awesome little resource that is turning into kind of a fun big resource.
So let's say anything else.
Phone numbers.
You guys can give us a call.
Tell us about support projects in your area, your neck of the woods.
If you want to talk about a trail that you love and what's,
you have questions about how can you get involved with it?
Or what is this or that going on?
Call us.
Leave us a voicemail.
We can go over it on a snail mail episode.
So that number is 9163454744
Anything else, man?
I don't think so.
If you have any other questions or comments, you can always find us on Instagram.
I'm over at snail trail four by four.
Tyler's over at four by four Toyota Tyler.
You can email us Jimmy or Tyler at snail trail four by four.com.
Or you can find us on the discord, which is a growing community.
So it's a lot of fun.
Yep.
Sweet.
Any final words to wrap up the show then today?
Wheeling season, go do your checks on your vehicles.
Don't just forget it from last winter or at the end of last year and then think
everything's good right now.
Go run through, do oil checks, do both nut and bolt checks, you know,
check your suspension and check everything.
Give it a once over before you go out and play.
Check your nuts and grease your balls.
And with that, my friends keep crawling.
The assist.
This is one of the assistants favorites.
Oh, geez.
Yeah, because close.
Oh, okay.
Why do ducks have feathers?
I don't know to cover their butt cracks.
Okay.
Yep.
Yep.
Okay.
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