The Elise is a small sports car made by Lotus. The podcast says the person is picking up a specific version called the 111RS. That usually means they’re getting a more enthusiast-focused Elise and preparing for ownership.
Concept
layers of the onion
It’s a metaphor for learning a car over time. The idea is that the more you drive it, the more you notice the subtle ways it behaves.
The pedal box is the space and mounting area for the pedals. If it’s narrow, it can make your feet feel cramped unless you have the right seating position.
This means a car that feels more connected to you—like the steering and throttle respond in a direct, physical way. Less “computer-managed,” more driver feel.
BAC Mono is a very small, very lightweight one-seat race-style car. Because it’s so niche, the speaker is saying they sold some without people even driving it first.
It’s a structured car show in Orange County where cars are displayed and judged. Think “serious car show,” not just people hanging out in a parking lot.
It’s a curvy road in Southern California that drivers like for fun drives. Here, it’s where they planned to go fast and then had to turn around because the road was closed.
GPS (Global Positioning System) is satellite navigation that provides turn-by-turn directions. In the segment, the speaker jokes that they don’t need GPS because they know the route.
“Sport bikers” are riders who push performance motorcycles hard, especially through corners. Dragging a knee is a sign they’re riding very aggressively.
A bed liner is a tough, rubbery coating that’s meant to protect a truck bed. People sometimes use it on cars because it can take scratches and rock impacts better than paint.
Mismatched wheels means the car doesn’t have the same wheels all around. It can be done for looks or to fit different tires, and this segment treats it as part of the car’s controversial style.
Term
compliance in the bumps
“Compliance in the bumps” means how well the car soaks up rough pavement. If the setup is more compliant, the tires can absorb bumps instead of jolting the car and upsetting grip.
The sidewall is the part of the tire between the wheel and the tread. A taller sidewall can make the ride less bouncy over bumps because it flexes a bit more.
The front fascia is the car’s front body area, like the bumper cover and surrounding trim. It’s often protected because it’s the first thing that gets hit by rocks or debris.
Term
front of your car
They’re talking about the car’s front end—especially the parts that get hit by rocks when you drive on rough, rocky roads. The point is that protection there matters a lot in canyon driving.
“Canyons” means winding mountain roads where people drive hard. They’re saying those roads are rocky, so your car’s front can get damaged by flying stones.
Sticky tires are tires made to grip the road better. Here, they’re talking about how a faster car with grippy tires can kick up rocks that chip the car behind it.
Topic
PPF vs paint protection durability
They’re comparing different ways to protect a car’s paint and talking about how long they last. Even PPF can get damaged if the impact is strong enough.
Topic
Miata NE generation and last ICE talk
They’re talking about upcoming Miata news—what the next generation might be called and whether it could be the last one with a gas engine. They also mention that rules and legislation could change the plan.
The Mazda MX-5 Miata is a small two-seat convertible. It’s made to be easy to drive and fun, with a focus on handling rather than luxury. The podcast mentions it in the context of how it may be one of the last gas-powered versions.
ICE means the car uses a traditional engine that burns fuel. The “last ICE Miata” idea is basically saying Mazda may eventually stop making Miatas with gas engines.
“ND Miata” is the name enthusiasts use for a specific generation of the Mazda MX-5 Miata. The point here is that Mazda has been selling this generation for a while, so it’s making money while they wait to launch the next one.
A “cash cow” is something that makes steady money without needing a lot of new spending. The hosts are saying the current Miata generation is still profitable, so Mazda can wait before making big changes.
Tooling refers to the specialized equipment and manufacturing setups used to build parts—like presses, molds, jigs, and assembly fixtures. The hosts mention avoiding major tooling investment as part of why Mazda can keep the current generation going longer.
R and D is research and development—basically the work and spending needed to create new tech or redesign parts of a car. The idea here is that Mazda doesn’t need to rush new development right away.
“2035 requirements” are rules about what car emissions levels automakers have to meet by 2035. If those rules get loosened, companies can take more time deciding how to change their cars.
The Mazda CX-5 is a popular SUV. The hosts are using it as an example of where Mazda’s new engine tech might debut before it shows up in the next Miata.
Skyactiv Z is Mazda’s name for a new generation of gas engines they’re working on. The hosts are saying it’s expected to show up first in another Mazda model before it eventually makes its way into the next Miata.
Car
Mazda Miata
The Mazda Miata is a small, lightweight sports car that’s popular with car enthusiasts. The point in this segment is that Mazda kept it true to its lightweight, driver-focused formula instead of making it bigger and more complicated.
Focus groups are structured customer feedback sessions used by companies to gauge what buyers want. Here, the hosts say focus groups in the US pushed for bigger, more luxury-oriented changes, while Mazda’s leadership in Japan resisted that input.
The Lamborghini Urus is Lamborghini’s SUV. They’re talking about a hybrid version and how far it can go on electric power before the gas engine takes over.
The Corvette E-Ray is a Corvette that uses both gas power and an electric motor. The point they’re making here is that it’s fast enough to hit 200 mph, and they’re connecting that to the new engine and Corvette’s modern tech.
National Corvette Day is a Corvette-themed holiday. In this segment, it’s used as the reason the hosts are talking about a new Corvette performance announcement.
The LS6 engine is a high-output V8 from Chevrolet. They’re using the LS6’s power and torque numbers to explain why this Corvette can go extremely fast.
“200 miles an hour” is just a way of saying the car can reach a very extreme top speed. They’re using it to emphasize how fast this Corvette is claimed to be.
The Z51 package is an option you can add to a Corvette to make it more track-oriented. In this segment they argue it changes the car’s aero balance (more downforce), which can hurt top speed even if it helps grip.
The podcast mentions a “Truck” in the context of a truck focus group. That means people were asked for opinions about trucks. The goal is usually to help shape what trucks get built or improved.
Extended range usually means the vehicle can go farther on a single charge. The episode suggests the startup didn’t deliver that promised option, which is disappointing to buyers.
Car
ice-powered truck
An ICE-powered truck runs on a traditional gas/diesel engine rather than batteries. The startup is claiming a low price, but the host is skeptical it may not be real yet.
Term
daily commute
A “daily commute” is how far you drive every day to work and back. The host is using it to decide if a car with limited range would still be practical. In cold weather, the usable range can drop, so the commute distance becomes important.
They move into a part of the show about good used-car deals coming out of auctions. They use a BMW M5 example and compare the auction price to what a new one costs. The goal is to explain when a used performance car is actually a smart buy.
The BMW M5 is BMW’s “performance” version of the 5 Series—made to be much faster than a normal 5. The host is talking about the F10-generation M5, and especially the fact that a 2013 M5 could still be had with a manual gearbox. That’s a rare combo today, which is why people pay attention to it.
A “manual” means you shift gears yourself using a clutch pedal and a stick. Instead of the car deciding when to change gears, you control it. Enthusiasts like manuals because it feels more connected to the driving.
“No reserve” means there’s no hidden minimum price. If enough people bid, the car will sell to the highest bidder even if the final price is lower than you might expect. It often makes auctions feel more like a real competition.
Topic
used M5 deal vs real ownership costs
They talk about whether a cheap BMW M5 is really a good deal once you consider what it costs to maintain. The point is that driving it hard can make repairs and wear items add up quickly.
A six-speed transmission means the car has six gears you can use to match the engine’s power to your speed. More gears can make the car feel more fun and responsive when you drive it.
“Use case” just means what you actually plan to do with the car. The host is saying the M5 can be great, but if you drive it hard all the time, it will cost more to maintain.
An oil change is routine maintenance where you replace the engine oil. The host is contrasting that predictable upkeep with bigger surprise repair bills.
“F10” is a BMW 5 Series generation code. The host is basically saying that even though it drives well, it doesn’t feel as special or engaging as older cars.
The “check engine light” is a warning on the dashboard that something in the engine or emissions system needs attention. The host is saying older cars may be more likely to trigger it, meaning more troubleshooting.
The BMW 3 Series is a compact luxury car made by BMW. The podcast mentions an E46 M3, which is a high-performance version of that general model line. They’re using it as an example of a car they use for a practical job like towing.
Water cooling is how a car keeps the engine from overheating. Coolant flows through the engine and then heat gets dumped through the radiator—here it’s mentioned as a key engineering shift on the Porsche 996.
Concept
redheaded stepchild of the Porsche market
It’s a phrase meaning “the model people like less than the others.” In this case, the hosts say the Porsche 996 got unfairly judged compared with other 911s, which can lower its resale prices.
In this context, “headlights” refers to the specific design of the Porsche 996’s front lighting, which the hosts say became a major negative factor for the car’s reputation and resale value. It’s not just the general idea of headlights—here it’s a named styling/acceptance issue affecting the market.
“911 armor” is a colorful way of saying the Porsche 911 has a strong reputation that usually protects it from criticism. The host is saying some changes made people notice flaws more than usual.
A boxer engine is a flat engine where pistons move opposite each other side-to-side. The host is saying Porsche’s boxer layout is a big part of what makes the 911 feel like a 911.
A “slick top” just means the car doesn’t have a sunroof. The idea is that removing the sunroof can make the car a little lighter and simpler, and sunroofs can be trouble over time.
A sunroof is an opening in the roof that lets in light (and sometimes air). The speaker’s point is that it adds extra parts that can fail or cause headaches later.
The “center of gravity” is basically where the car’s weight balances. If you remove something heavy up high (like a sunroof), the car’s balance point can drop, which can make it feel more stable when driving.
“GT3 996” means the Porsche 911 GT3 from the 996 generation. The point here is that it’s the high-performance, more collectible version of that 911 generation, and it tends to keep its value better than the simpler 996 models.
The G80 M3 Competition is the newer BMW M3 (G80 generation) in the higher-performance “Competition” version. They mention it to show how expensive current M3s are compared with a top Porsche GT3.
The BMW E46 M3 is a classic BMW sports car from the early 2000s. People like it because it’s fun to drive and common at track days, so it’s easier to enjoy without feeling like you’re risking a rare collectible.
The M96 motor is the engine family Porsche used in many 996-era 911s. People sometimes talk about it with caution, but the speaker also says it can still sound great.
A flat-six is an engine design where the cylinders are laid out flat like a “boxer.” It’s a big part of why certain cars, like the 911, have a recognizable sound and driving character.
A value proposition is basically the reason a buyer thinks a car is worth the money. The speaker is comparing which car gives you the best deal for the kind of experience you want.
Depreciation means the car’s value tends to go down as time passes and as you drive it. The speaker is saying that’s part of the cost of owning a driver car like an E46.
They’re debating which Porsche 911 is the best and sharing their personal top picks. The conversation compares several generations and track-focused versions.
“Water cooled” means the engine uses liquid coolant to manage temperature. That’s different from air cooling, where airflow does most of the heat control.
A naturally aspirated engine doesn’t use a turbo or supercharger. It tends to feel more direct as you press the gas, and it often has a different (more “mechanical”) sound.
This is a special Porsche 911 called the GT3 RS. It’s made to be really fun on winding roads and track-style driving, and the host is saying the experience is intense and hard to forget.
RPM tells you how fast the engine is spinning. When the host says they didn’t even get to 9,000 RPM, they mean they didn’t fully push the engine into its high-rev, high-performance zone yet.
Short shifting means you shift gears earlier than you “could,” instead of letting the engine rev higher. The host thinks that prevents you from getting the best sound and performance the car is capable of.
PDK is Porsche’s fast-shifting automatic gearbox. Instead of waiting for one gear to finish before the next, it can switch gears quickly, so the car stays in the power band and sounds very sharp.
A downshift is when you go to a lower gear. That typically makes the engine rev higher so the car can slow down smoothly or accelerate strongly, and it often sounds dramatic.
Accordion bumpers are older crash-protection bumpers that can move outward in an impact. They’re named for how the bumper structure looks like it “folds” during a crash.
“Analog guy” means someone who prefers cars that feel more mechanical and driver-focused. They like the car to be more about your inputs than screens and electronic aids.
A “track toy” is a car built mainly for racing/track days. The host is saying these 911s aren’t trying to be only-for-the-track cars.
LIVE
Hey, Shanu. Welcome back. This is a super exciting because those of you who are like
video listeners, not just audio, Shanu and I are sitting right by each other.
Indeed we are. Right here in my den at home, you know, we're recording together. So
this is going to be a precursor for some guests, I think, in the future.
Yeah.
I think one mic might just do the trick, right?
100%. Well, I'm down here in Southern California. So yeah, to that point, excuse us if somehow
audio doesn't come through as good. We're still trying to figure this out. But
I'm down here in Southern California. I'm really excited because I am picking up my 111RS,
which I've been having you do a little bit of work on. So before we dive into some of that
stuff though, if you got anything for Puerto Rico, I think we should share it with the listeners.
Probably dying to get an update on Tim.
Well, that is exactly what I was looking at. We got a dispatch. But this one is,
of course, from Tim Harris. And it's a career update from Maranello. I arrived this week for
my interview for the Chief Luche Officer position. The interview was proceeding well until they
showed me the Luche. Shortly thereafter, I became unwell. At this point, I'm still not sure if it
was the Luche or the Carpaccio that I had the evening before. The investigation remains ongoing.
I may have made a stronger impression than intended. See you guys soon. Tim Harris.
Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where horsepower meets conversation.
From supercars to classic legends, high-revving tech to motorsport mayhem,
we covered all. Straight from the driver's seat, whether you're a gearhead or racer,
or just love the thrill of the open road, you're in the right place.
Buckle up, hit the gas, and let's go full throttle into today's episode.
Oh, that's awesome. You've said definitely not the Carpaccio. The Luche is,
I don't know that we're ever going to warm up to that totally.
I don't think any of us are big fans. So it appears that Tim got physically ill.
So yeah. Well, what we did in cars this week, I, as I was starting to say, I'm down here.
I'm super excited because Shenu has been doing a little bit of TLC on my 111 RS.
There was some stuff I wanted done and I wanted none other than he and his guys to work on it.
And so I get to drive that home again 10 hours in a couple of days.
Yes, you do.
Which is like a scary thought, to be honest.
One of your favorite things to do, driving long trips in a small car.
Yeah, but I think it'll be good. I've done it before. We're going to do it again.
And I had, I just, for those of you watching, you know, I'm probably still red in the face.
That might be because I was at the Beats the other day for too long.
Well, you are here on a family vacation, aren't you?
Yeah, we are here on a family vacation.
And you managed to sneak away?
I snuck away, gave my wife the tour of Shenu's shop, which was super cool.
Yeah, that was fun.
And I, the other reason I might still be like hot and sweaty and exhausted
is because I just drove the Dragon Spider, which was like such an experience.
We were right. This is the one thing I said to you that you've got to drive these type of cars
at least once to see what they're like. They're just so different from the normal sports cars
most people drive. So tell us your impressions. We went around the block a few times.
What do you think?
Well, it's hard. It's one of those cars I think as you drive like more and more and more, you'll get
the layers of the onion will start getting peeled back and the new, the nuance of what the car is
will continue to like unfold itself. So I think there's a lot to learn and explore.
Sure.
Because when you get into a car that weighs 2000 pounds and has 450.
430.
Yes.
430 horse, similar torque value. I mean, imagine big old burly Corvette motor strapped to this
2000 pounds.
2000 pound tubular frame.
From my two chassis, yes.
Yeah, exactly. So I mean, the impression was obviously this thing is angry. It barks.
The shifter's good. The throttle response is so immediate. Don't have to blip it much to get the
motor to respond. And, you know, obviously you're down in a really aggressive,
like driving position. There's a lot of texture, feel that comes through, you know, from the
road. So all in all, it was just like such an assault on the senses. And yet it still just had
some of those driver quality things that I look for.
And like, it's fun just to blip from fourth to third, even if you're not just ripping the car in a
corner on a straight.
Yeah.
It's like, it's just nice to use the steering's heavy.
Yeah.
You know, you had some kind of bigger shoes, but those pedals, you know, which are beautiful to
look at as well, they're hinged on the floor. So that takes a little bit of adjustment unless
you've got seat time in an old 911, which I know you do. So you seem to adjust pretty quickly,
you know, and so that's the one thing. But the pedal box is kind of narrow.
But even for a guy of your stature, you know, lots of room, the pedal box, we actually had it
all the way forward, we can move it another six inches. So.
Which is something I need because my knees were in the dash, I'm six to about. And so,
yeah, it was tiny, but it was actually surprisingly comfortable.
Right.
It was a thrill. I think honestly, like, I've got to digest and think about this a little bit,
but I can't not a more thrilling experience doesn't really come to mind, frankly.
Yep. It is insane. It's an assault on all your senses in a good way.
Yeah. Right. So, you know, I've got to do some thinking. I'm going to have plenty of time to
think about this 111 RS and my drive home. And it's like two very different experiences,
but somehow very similar. Right.
Yeah, they're analog driving experiences. You know, one just has so much more power than the other.
But the way it handles and behaves, you know, is something that's very intuitive to people
and love driving. Right. And then, but then being open and seeing your wheels and tires
moving and that's a completely different experience, which I think is really compelling.
And when you spend some real seat time in the car and you've gone and driven your
canyons or you've gone to the racetrack with it, that's when the you realize, oh my gosh,
this is very special. It's different. Yeah.
Well, we're not here. One of the reasons I like doing this with you is you are not
primarily focused on like pumping your business and selling cars from this thing.
It's, but I, so that is not what the intention of what I'm about to say is,
but I don't know why more guys aren't buying stuff like this because I know
all the huge collections that guys have and they keep stacking. We're going to talk about 911s
in depth today. So this will not all be, you know, niche enthusiast cars.
Right. But they keep stacking 911 on 911 on 911.
Or Ferrari, McLaren.
Add some Ferraris, add some of this stuff and I'm like, hey, there is a place for all those
things in the garage. But, but there are some really wild experiences out there that I think
more guys and gals should really become more open minded to. And I feel like we're living my
kind of awakening in real time, you know, through this podcast, as you help expose me to a bunch
of stuff that is incredible. It's these type of cars are so obscure. They just don't hit most
people's radar. Yeah. You know, cause you just don't see them. And there's certainly, you can't go
to your normal auto mall and find somebody selling these things, you know, and so that it takes a
little bit more effort. And that's why I say to a lot of people, as long as you can stroke a check,
you can go buy a Ferrari, even by the exact same Ferrari in Tokyo and Paris and New York, LA,
wherever, you know, but to find these kinds of cars, it takes, there's a bit more effort that
it takes. And some of the just maybe knowing the right people that turn you on to something like
this and say, Hey, have you checked this thing out? You know, and it's, it's kind of like the way
music used to be in the 80s for us or 70s and 80s, you'd have to get you either hear it maybe on
the radio, if you're lucky, but the really good stuff, you'd have to go to a record store and
the place where you could trust the guy and he'd say, Hey, man, you got to check out this record.
Interesting. Yeah. So it's a, well, could you imagine being a sales guy, having people come off
the street wanting to test drive the dragon spider? I'm like, you're a brave man as it is for giving
me the keys. Yeah. But I know you, you know, believe me, getting people that you don't know in the
car. And you're like, okay, well, you know, we generally speaking, most people, we would give
them a drive. Yeah. Okay. If I don't know them, until they put a deposit, because if they wreck
the car, then at least I have their deposit to fix the car. Right. And so we sold a bunch of cars
without anyone driving them. And that includes, you know, BAC monos, that includes aerials,
you know, the dragon as well, you know, now we're in talks with catering. And so anyways, it's,
I'm glad you had a chance to drive it. It was, it was a thrill. Thank you very much. What about
you? You, we talked a little about the Porsche event last week. Yes. Yes. Yes. There's some more
996 stuff. And I just saw the 996 in the garage. Right. You really got that thing kind of pulled
together aesthetically. Yeah, we, we, we've been having fun with that car. And I showed it at
the PCA's Orange County Concourse last, last Saturday. Okay. So I had to drive the thing to
this event. Orange County Concourse. Is that just like a show? Yes. Kind of a formal judging,
all that kind of stuff. The 54th annual event. I was surprised, you know, and, you know, it's
been going on that long. Right. So I thought, okay, well, let me, you know, let me go see what the
story is and, and we'll display. And again, this is where the 911 just shows how practical it is.
I brought, you know, Kevin with me from, from my, my creative agency. Yeah. And we had a backdrop
in the back of the car, plus some other junk that we brought to, to the show, right? And the car has
the space, right? The hall on this top. It's one of the party tricks of a 911. Yeah. Exactly. And,
and, and then after the show, we got to haul some ass through Ortega Highway.
Absolutely. Yeah. And it was funny. We didn't know, but the road was closed.
Oh. And so, but there was traffic coming in the other direction. We're like, oh, it must be fine,
you know, like GPS wouldn't allow us to go through. And we're like, screw it. I don't need the GPS.
I know where I'm going, you know. And so I was getting some really good stretches of road just
open and we were hauling ass. Your own private circuit. That's exactly what it was. And then we
got to the end and it was like, oh, the road was closed. Shoot. So you have to turn around?
We're going to turn around. And so guess what? It was worth it though, right? The hauling ass
backwards. Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah. Yeah. Back the way you came. Well, let me tell you one thing
that happened. I was approaching this, what appeared to be a Harley or a cruiser. And I said to Kevin,
I'm like, oh man, this guy's going to slow me down. Well, he heard me coming and he got into it.
And I, and I kid you not. Okay. Normally I can come up to most motorcycles. Okay. And I can keep
with most, you know, sport bikers. The guys that can drag their knees through a corner are the ones
that I have the hardest, you know, staying with, which I've done with tracking with aerial and
on a mono, but the 996 doesn't quite have that much. But this guy was moving out in a cruiser.
And I couldn't catch him. He was on a fractionally, on a cruiser,
fractionally faster than I was going. Wow. So who knows what kind of cruiser it was. It maybe
it was one of those baggers, you know, that set up for this. Yeah. I couldn't quite tell because
he was far enough ahead. And when he got into it, I could never close the gap. And so anyways,
that was hilarious. So what was, you've done some risque kind of things on this 996. Did you,
did you get? I wouldn't, I don't call it risque. You can call, I guess so, but some people certainly
controversial stuff, like mostly the bed liner. Yes. I mean, you got mismatch wheels on there.
Yes. Yes. The graphics and all the gold accents really pulled the thing together. It looks,
it looks cool. Did you get feedback? We did. We did good and bad where people like,
you felt like they were being honest. Did you try to pull it out of them? Tell us what you think.
In some cases, I had to kind of pull it out of them, right? We certainly saw some people walk
by with their eyes raised and they kept going, you know, so I didn't get a chance to talk to
those folks. But which, but before I forget, four of you guys stopped to, to say you're listening
to our podcast. So thank you for stopping. Yeah. That was great. You know, meeting some of you guys
and getting some feedback. One of, one of you guys, Peter, I've known you for, for 20 years.
You're a little, a little guy, but now you're, you're into Porsches. And so it was nice to
see you again. So thanks for stopping and saying that was great. So it was mixed. Some people,
some people really love it. The guys that drove that were into driving hard, they got it. They
understood very, very clearly what we were doing. And as I explained to them how we made the wheel
smaller for more sidewall, they got, Oh, you wanted more, you know, compliance in the bumps. Yes,
that's exactly what we were doing. And so those folks got it. And even the bedliner on the front
fascia, the guys that actually get out there and push their cars in the canyons, they understood
because in California, our canyons are covered in rocks. And those rocks just annihilate the
front of your car. If you're following your buddy and he's got a car with sticky tires,
and you guys are, you're moving on out, someone's car is getting chipped up. And it's usually,
you know, both of you, but the one who's following is going to get more of a beating.
How does the cost compare of that versus PPF? Well, I mean, I think similar. Yeah. I mean,
it's going to be similar. Actually, I mean, this was actually pretty inexpensive, but it'll be more
durable than PPF. PPF is, it fails too. If you, it gets hit hard enough, it's going to fail. So
you're going to replace it, you know, you showed us the swamp creature that you had in your shop
a couple of months ago that Florida Elise, remember the PPF that was bedliners not doing that.
No, that's actually a great nickname. I'm going to, we're going to start calling it the swamp
creature from here on out. Yeah, we did repair the front of that car, but the sides and the rear
are still not been done yet. Hopefully it doesn't drive like the swamp creature. It's getting a new
engine. The engine was, was, oh really? You still have it? We still have it. Oh, I was just in your
shop. Yeah. Yeah. It's covered. We put a cover on it because we're waiting for the engine to
show up. Okay. So anyway, so when, when, once that comes in, we'll, we'll swap that out. But
yeah, 996RR was, was really the highlight of my week since we last talked, which is actually
not a full week. We've actually recording this a little bit sooner, but that's okay. That's awesome.
Well, the Dragon Spider was the highlight of my week. Nice. One of the highlights my
automotive enthusiast career, if you will. So thank you for that. It was super awesome.
Moving into the news, there was a headline that obviously caught my interest because I love
Mazda Mianos. Yes, you do. And there's been a lot of anticipation about the NE generation.
When's it coming and what's it going to be? Well, I think the, the head of Mazda Australia
was an Indian guy. He was speaking in an interview and said that he overheard that
this is most likely the NE is coming. We, we know that. Definitely. Said most likely going to be the
last ICE engine Miata, which is, it's funny when I read that, he said probably, which,
I mean, we've been hearing this for a while now, right? And we've got people that have
walked back this, I don't know. I don't think it's a scare tactic. I think they genuinely just
assume these are going to be the last combustion cars. And then maybe they walk it back because
they realize maybe it's legislation has changed. Maybe it's just they, they, they misread the
market and what people want. But so supposedly it's going to be the last, the last ICE Miata,
but I thought more interestingly than, than, than that was the fact that it's still probably not
coming out until 2028, right? Which got me thinking about the ND Miata and how long in the tooth it's
become, which I think partly it's a good thing because it's a cash cow at this point and not
having to invest a whole lot in tooling and R and D, whatever. Exactly. And they keep iterating from
ND1 to two to three. I have not driven an ND3, but we still got to wait until 2028. And that's
like, oh man, I get it. But I'm very curious to see this new Miata. And if only they had more
competition, which they don't, right, they wouldn't be able to probably sit back as long as they're
able to do now. So they know they've been selling this car, right, for 36 years. So they kind of
know the pattern of the initial demand will be there, then it's going to drop off. And so like
to your point, I'm sure right now, they are kind of just cashing in on the investment they've made
on this generation. And they know, you know, with as, as difficult as the market conditions are right
now for a manufacturer, it would be smarter for them to just milk this existing car because this
existing car is still fundamentally good. It's a good car. It is. Yeah. And so I think for that
reason, they're doing the smart thing and kind of sitting back a bit and watching to see what
legislation is going to be, you know, out there and what investments they're going to need to make.
Because, you know, the powertrain investment is so significant that now that all these big
countries and regions are kind of walking back to 2035 requirements, it's giving these guys a
little bit of breathing room to make a decision. But they have to make a decision because they
can't change things quickly. So that decision still to get it going is still going to take them
five to 10 years before it really happens. So it's, well, we'll see the Skyactiv Z family of
engines, which is coming in 2027 to a CX-5. That's what's going in this new Miata supposedly.
So we know it's not going to be around for a little bit. I think we can comfortably say Mazda
of every car manufacturer that has been producing a particular sports car for 20, 30 years,
they've stuck to the formula better than anybody else. By far. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah, by far.
I mean, look at how big a Porsche 911 it's gotten. Yeah. It's in this same time frame. You know, you
compare a 964, you know, or even the G body was right at the end when the Miata was introduced.
But let's say the 964 to a 992. Put those two together, right? Big, big difference.
That's an incredible point. And I think that is a huge part of why I'm so excited to see what
they're going to come up with next. Yeah. Because they have said they're going to stick to that.
Yeah. They're going to try to keep it 2400 pounds or less. That has been reported,
but it's pretty amazing. Well, I will tell you, I kind of feel like I may have talked about this
in a previous spot here, but I spoke to a guy who used to work in Mazda's product planning.
And he flat out said to me, the folks in Japan, the chief engineer in Japan,
refused to allow too much interference from input from the product planning people in the US.
Oh, really? Yeah. Because the focus groups are always saying bigger, bigger, more luxury, more
comfort, more BS, right? Yeah. And they've kind of stuck to their knitting in Japan and said,
listen, we need to keep making the Miata the way we're making it. And so I feel like that's worked
so well for them. And I think as enthusiasts, we have to, as business guys, we have to admire
what they've done. And that's not easy to do. And they've stuck to their knitting and...
Well, speaking of bigger, heavier, more tech, BS, Mr. Analog Sportscar here, Shenu.
A news story caught his eye this week about the Lamborghini Urus.
Yeah. I mean, it was just one little thing that was kind of interesting to me about it.
They've been teasing this car for a couple of weeks now, right? Yeah. And it's their Urus,
which is their SUV, and this new hybrid version that is... What got my attention was not this big
5,500-pound monstrosity. It was a fact that it'll go nearly 40 miles on EV, up to 87 miles an hour.
Well, a lot of these other hybrids, the minute... On an e-ray, the minute you try to goose it,
they'll kick on the ice motor. And Lamborghini thought, no, we're going to make it this way.
And so anyhow, we'll see what the details are like. But I think for people that want an SUV,
here's a smart way for you to improve your mileage. If you're in city centers where they're banning
ice, maybe this is the way that you can get through that legislation. But what really got my
attention this week? You brought up the Corvette e-ray. Yes. So let's skip to that because Lambo
Urus hybrid is less interesting to me than this story. Yeah. So what really got my attention was
June 30th is National Corvette Day. Did you know that? I did not know that. I didn't either. Okay,
write this article. That'd be like June 3rd, you know, America right up, button up against...
Close to July 4th. Yeah, exactly. June 30th was the day the very first Corvette came,
rolled off the assembly line. So back in, what, 1954 or whenever the hell it was, right, the C1 car.
And so anyhow, so they made June 30th National Corvette Day. And that's when they announced this
big news, which I think is cool. And that is the new e-ray with the new LS6 engine
can hit 200 miles an hour. Right? 74,000. This is the new LS6. Yeah. That we've talked about,
higher torque. Higher torque, 500. 6.7 liter, right? I believe it is, yeah. It's 535 horsepower,
520 foot-pounds of torque, right? So more power. So if, I mean, this, for $74,000 and you have to
order the base car, okay? If you get the Z51 package, it makes too much downforce and it will
bring down the top speed. But if you get a base thing, singray, you now have a car that can do
200 miles an hour. For 74 grand starting. Where are you going to ever hit, you know, join the 200
mile cloud for anything less? Right? That is just not possible. And it's insane. Well, value for money
smiles per dollar. I mean, especially going fast is your concern. We've talked at length about
how good I think the C8 platform is. Yes, I agree. And the fact that you can do that, it's
wrapped in with a decent interior. It's getting harder other than maybe styling preference
to like continue to dismiss and overlook corvettes. I mean, it's unbelievable. You think back, it's
always fun to, you drive old cars, then you drive older cars, you see really old cars, you had a,
you had an XKE type, you do out in your shop today. Yeah. Like you think about where cars have come.
It's a pretty fascinating discussion to see where, how it originated. You think about the
earliest cars you've ever driven. And then you start talking about 200 miles an hour in a base
stingray. In fact, only in the base thing. $474,000, right? It's insane, right? I mean,
a 911 turbo will do over 200 miles an hour. But that's a $250,000 car. Yeah. Right? It's
it just kind of just shows what's possible. If you give engineers enough of a budget and you
give them some targets, they can hit it. And I think what Corvette have certainly done is they
brought performance to the masses in a way that finally, frankly, has got my attention as well.
Yeah. So that was pretty cool. Well, you were part of the Slate Truck Focus Group.
Yeah. Yeah. So there was this other bit of news, Slate announced their truck. I think we talked
about it last week, but I did a quick research and, you know, they had 180,000 tentative deposits.
180,000. Right. And they basically now have allowed you to convert that into an actual order.
And so they're getting close. They're getting close. And so the latest news, the CEO apparently
has Slate announced that they've collected 10,000 of these pre-orders effectively.
Out of 180,000 deposits, 10,000 orders. It's been less than a week. So certainly,
I'm sure they'll be collecting more. But I wonder if it may be an issue with the range
that they're offering on this. So 10,000 not being a real strong first showing relative to the
deposits, certainly. Yeah. I would have thought they would have collected a bit more than that.
So I'm a little disappointed, but I think it's too soon. I think we got to give another month
of vision. We'll see how it shakes out. Because you said the range is like 200 miles.
Yeah. Which was better than expected, but they were supposed to offer an extended range,
which they didn't. So anyhow, related news. There's this other startup company,
REO. Speedwagging. Exactly. They're out of Texas and they are claiming they're going to produce a
$21,000 ice-powered truck. Interesting. Yeah. So let's see. I mean, who knows? It may be just
vaporware. But I think the interesting point here is I do think Americans are looking for
more affordable options. And I think if somebody can produce a vehicle that is a bit more affordable,
I think there's a lot of people just chomping at the bit for something like that. So anyhow,
that's why those things caught my attention. So... Well, it's interesting stuff. Hopefully,
with the slate trucks, I think when people start seeing them out banging around the road,
and real simple, it feels like a truck that can probably get some Instagram attention.
Well, I think because it's so customizable, I think for that reason alone, it's going to start
to gather some steam. So hopefully, it's backed by Jeff Bezos. So he's going to need to stay behind
that thing for a while because I don't think they're going to be making money right out of the shoot.
Well, 200 miles, if that's a challenge for you living in Temecula, where just LAX and back,
you start getting uneasy, you go up to Salt Lake, a third of the year, it's so cold that 200 miles
probably becomes 150, 160. So that is a challenge. It's an issue for some people. Truth of the matter
is most people, I think what I've read is their daily commute is somewhere in the 50 to 60 mile
range. So the truth is for a lot of people, it could work. For my particular use case,
where I wanted to be able to go to LAX with the thing, truth is, day to day,
it would work perfectly fine for me. Yeah. So anyways. Well, we're going to move into the next
section, which is from the auctions. I've got a couple here that I like to bring to
news attention, stuff that jumped out at me. We've done it in the last couple of episodes.
And the first one, I've brought up the last few weeks about this idea that I have,
is this idea of buying an old BMW, for example, which is like you buy them heavily depreciated.
They're super scary to own. But the amount of value you can get for the money is just
insane. Now in this case, the fact that you can buy an F10, BMW M5. So this is a 2013,
BMW M5 was 70,000 miles on it. And this is a manual. This is the last M5 you could get in a
manual. No reserve $28,000. Now I know the mechanic in you who runs a parts and service shop
is thinking about the possible receivables on a car like this. But you take it from somebody
like me. So here's my feeling about this. A new M5 costs like $140, $150,000. So we're talking
120 to 30 grand, well, 110 to 20 grand more than this car. This has 550 or whatever horsepower
with a manual. Plenty, plenty of power. Yeah. So I do not think somebody who can only afford
30 grand in their right mind should be buying an F10 M5. But if you are considering buying a new M5,
of which they're selling a lot, why in the world should you would you not be considering
a 70,000 mile M5 for $28,000. 30 with the bring a trailer fee.
So look, I think this is a steal. This is an amazing deal. And by the way, thanks for reminding
me about this car. I completely forgotten about this M5. We were talking about M5s last time,
and I completely forgot about this one. This is honestly arguably my favorite M5 of the last,
I'm just going to say in 30 years. I love this thing. This is the styling of it. It's fantastic.
The power, it's just you got the six speed. It's a wonderful car. So as an enthusiast,
this thing, it's amazing. But are you buying a big sedan to go hustle it through the canyons?
Or are you buying it to cruise around? Is it an executive vehicle? What's your use case with
this car? Because go drive that thing in the canyons hard, and you're going to be cooking the
brakes, you're going to be going through tires, the maintenance on this car. I always come back
to that. And these used cars, even though it appeared to be such a good deal, if you really
want to go drive this car hard or plan to use it, just budget five to 10 grand for a car like this
every year for maintenance. I think this car, driving this to Salt Lake City from here would
be wonderful. I think it'd be a great road trip car. I think you could really enjoy it.
And I think you could do it reliably, but you're going to consume things. You're going to have
some reliability issues that you're going to have to address. So just have a mechanic that
knows what he's doing and enjoy that car because it's a good deal. So you go buy a new M5 for 150k.
You're depreciating. So I'm thinking about this use case wise. You brought up the use case.
I'm thinking about it, call it 15,000 miles a year. Like somebody to actually drive and use,
like most people who drive and use their daily driver. How much are you going to depreciate
$150,000 M5 that you're putting 15,000 miles a year on? Well, this is a pretty good case study.
I mean, yes, it's a 13 year old car with 70,000 miles. But if you're doing that,
it's only going to take you four and a half, almost five years,
put 70,000 miles on a brand new one. It won't be worth this little because a new one will only
be five years old. So that's like buying the 2021. But it's probably worth 50k. And I'm like,
even if you're rolling the maintenance, you're saying you're still ahead.
Yeah. Well, I think you're going to depreciate a brand new one over 70,000 miles, probably from
150 down to about 60 grand, 70 grand. So you're depreciating at $80,000. And it's like,
so what if this costs you in five years, $50,000 to own, and you're depreciating probably from
30 down to 20. I guess that's just what I'm getting at is like, it's something that I am
actively considering doing. I'm wrestling with myself right now, not an M5 that would,
I don't want to put 10 grand into my daily driver every year, but I'm also not the buyer. I'm not
shopping for $150,000 M5 even. But I'm like, I want to go try to prove the same concept we've
talked about. And this is one of those prime examples of if I truly like the car better. And
I think that's what it comes down to, is don't do it because you think it's going to be way cheaper.
Because maybe it won't be. You might get lucky. Maybe it's only three to $4,000 a year. You have
a $8,000 repair bill the first year and then you go 18 months without another one. It's an
oil change. But it's a fascinating concept to me mostly because I get in these new cars and
I just feel disenchanted by them. They drive well. They're really nice. There's just something
about these older cars that maybe it's nostalgia, but I just think this is not a real simple car,
this F10. It's not. It's not. But the older you get, the more pure and genuine these cars
to me feel. And I'd rather cruise in something a little older. So anyways, it's an interesting
example of old versus new. Do you want the new, reliable, dependable, it's going to start every
time versus something like this. You're going to get some check engine lights and you got to play
roulette a little bit. But financially, I'm not convinced you're going to be worse off. The other
option to stay in BMW land, I did have a Porsche in here, but we are going to get to 911. Our main
topic of the day is the 911 discussion. So we scrapped one of the Porsches and we went with
one of my favorite cars, Shenu, which is, I brought it up many times. I happen to own one
of these things. It's an E46 M3. This bring a trailer car. It's a 2006. It was the very last
year, the E46. And it's a 29,000 Mola red slick top, which BMW guys go nutty over slick tops,
you know, no sunroof. And this car is traded for 75K. With the bring a trailer buyer fee,
you're paying like $80,000 to buy this car. It's incredible. It's serious, like money for a...
How much was this thing new again? I think the stickers, mine was like 55. So call it, this
isn't a competition. It's, which those bring even more money. I bet sticker on this was similar
55K. And so what I find most interesting about this is, yes, the clean ones of these are doing
really well. And I have an explanation for it. I have a, you know, I think I can understand it
a little bit as a fan of these cars. But I don't think in 996, we just talked about your 996 with
30,000 miles on it in guards red is getting anywhere close to $75,000. What's your take on
E46 M3 versus 996, 911, maybe not just, you know, comparing the cars like exactly, but just as it
relates to these good E46s seem to have more value than a 996 does. Right. Yeah. And it's,
and you think about M3 versus 911, you know, I would say in the hierarchy of sports cars,
and 911 is higher, right? It's more of what most sports car guys would want versus an M3.
Yeah. And to that point, you look at, go more recent, 911's cost a lot more to get into than
an M3. And they hold their value way better. They can. So yeah, they can. So you look at,
20 anyways. So this is one where it seems like there's an exception where the M3
happens to be worth more than 911. So I think, you know, when you look at why, you know, comparing
these two generations, the 996 was the first of the water cools. Yeah. Okay. So there are two
things that unfortunately went against that car and made it the redheaded stepchild of the Porsche,
you know, market. One is the water cooling, which, you know, technically and from a race
perspective, they had to move to that because they need, you know, they, to endurance race cars,
they needed better cooling. So we understand why they had to do it. The second thing was those damn
headlights. And it's probably a third thing, okay, which is the interior quality and overall kind
quality of the car had dropped from what people were used to. Yeah. Whereas this E46 M3 didn't
have any such challenges. Going from the E36 to the E46, it got a bit bigger. It got a bit heavier.
It got a little bit more luxurious, but it still had that kind of nice German interior
and the quality of those components that we came to like in BMWs, right? Whereas you could argue
that the quality in the 996 versus the 993, there definitely was a marked difference. Yeah. Even though
the 993 had some rudimentary things in it, I remember when I got mine, I was looking at the
window switches and the visors, they're kind of cheesy, you know, they're kind of cheap. But I
justified it by saying, well, I don't care. I didn't give a shit about switches. I care about how
this powertrain works. And that's where it was great. And I loved it, right? But with the 996,
they started upping the style on the inside, but the materials that they were using weren't quite as
nice. So I think these number of things from the water cooling, less so maybe headlights for sure,
and the interior quality of components kind of put a chink in the 911 armor, you know what I'm
saying? I think, you know, and so that's why it continues to have this, this desirability. And
then when subsequent cars, like two more generations, they've moved to turbo, right? Now,
all of a sudden, if you wanted the naturally aspirated car, and maybe you don't really want the V8,
you like the inline six, right? E46, what else you got, man? Yeah. You know, so that's why I
feel like E46, a lot of people covet that car, including yourself. And these may be some of the
reasons, because I think a BMW 6-cylinder is a sweet spot. I really think that they've done that
very, very well. And so when you look at what distinguishes a brand, you know, you look at
certain things like that, you know, and to me, yeah, you're getting the jewel, right? And that's
why like, I feel like these boxers, four-cylinder turbo boxers have been kind of, you know, versus,
you know, if they did that with a 911, it would be a grave disappointment, right? You know, if they
ever move away from a six-cylinder, you know, it will be absolutely a disaster in my mind, right?
So BMW moved away because they needed to find more power, they needed to compete, whatever the
reason they were doing. Yeah. But I think for a lot of those reasons that E46 M3 still resonates
with the enthusiast community, and you're seeing these auction results, which surprised me, I was
like, oh my god, I didn't realize it was pulling that kind of money. Yeah, I mean, they don't all,
you can get, you know, like mine, 30, 40 grand, you know, somewhere in there. But this one had the
slick top, right? This one's a slick top. Which explains that to me, because I didn't know what
slick top, I had not heard that phrase before. Yeah, you know, it's like finding a 997 in a cool
color. Yeah. That car is going to go for insane money. Right. But the term slick top. Yeah. Explain.
Yeah. Explain. Yeah. It literally means optioned without a sunroof, which at the time was like a,
you know, a cheaper way to go. And yes, it, in theory, removes weight from the roof of the car.
Which is good. And, and brings it down, you know, center of gravity down. Yes. I think there's less
complexity. Sunroofs do break. Yes. They're always kind of a pain in the butt. Yeah. So, so this is
not what I would say is that this is, this is a really good example, E46 M3 and a desirable one.
It's not the most desirable in this, Amola red. But I think even just your average example,
E46 is a 996 is a price similarly. Yeah. But, and it's just interesting because I think you bring
up a good point. E46 by many people's accounts is kind of the pinnacle of M3. Whereas 996 by many
people's is kind of the valley. That was the low point of the, now I don't necessarily say I agree
with that. But that's how it's perceived. Well, you could also argue, are we making the right
apples to apples comparison? Because the M3 is the pinnacle three series. And a GT3 996 is more
the pinnacle 996. So comparing the plain Jane 996 to an M3 may not be necessarily the right
comparison, but price wise, they're probably closer. Certainly, you know, well, the 996 was
still more expensive than the E46 M3. But regardless, I think from a pure desirability
perspective and performance perspective, maybe the GT3 996, which has held its value a bit better,
right, than the plain Jane 996. And so, I mean, but if you continue that comparison to today,
a G80 M3 comp is 100 grand, a 992.2 GT3 is 300 grand. It's like three times the money.
Anyways, I've driven recently a 996, 911 back to back with my M3. They're similar experiences
other than 911 as a focus kind of sports car chassis. M3 is a hoted up three series like
PeopleMover. It's a coupe sedan. You can't really compare the two. But they're similar,
if you get past that similar in terms of performance, feel, sound, you know, it's like,
it's interesting to me, the 996 is certainly not an inferior experience. I just happen to
think the E46 is a better car personally. And you go to a track day, you're going to see guys
run an E46 M3 all day. They're almost never going to see a 996, which is the last point of
there's some spooky engine stuff with that M96 motor and sounds good. Flat six, you can make
them sound good. I think they're fun to drive. And like I said, I think they're in a very similar
kind of experience level category. Well, I mean, I would argue that 996 is the best value
in the market. You know, if you want a sports car experience, if you want a 911 experience,
it's legit. 996 is legit. When I drive that car, you know, our car, now we've done a few,
obviously we've made a bunch of mods to it. But, you know, when I hustle that car through a canyon
road, I got a smile on my face. I'm not thinking, Oh, this sucks. Yeah, you know, I just bought the
redheaded step check. No, I agree with you. And I drive them. It's like, these are 911s.
These are 911s, man. And I think that, you know, for people that are looking for value
propositions, like to your point about the M5 earlier, right, these are these are good values.
And you could argue this E46, you buy that $75,000 and you put some miles on it, that
shit's just going to depreciate. That's true. Okay. And so, okay, you know, so you just got to,
you know, weigh what's most important to you, you know, but the no sunroof slick top M3 coupe is
certainly cool. And I'm kind of glad to see that. And it's funny because I saw
one of my fraternity brothers that has an E36 M3 that I sold to him that I bought new,
I saw him a couple of weekends ago at our Hawking Hills event. And he was actually lamenting the
fact that the E36 M3 is not appreciating in the same way. And I haven't paid attention to that
fact. But I don't know if that's the case. Well, we can get into it. They're not as cheap as they
used to be. So yeah, they should be creeping up. But it's like Porsche, this is a unique example.
You get a unique example of 9 11 of any generation, it's gonna bring more money. Yeah, you know,
I think my cars were in the 35 grand range. Okay. And it's got 80,000 miles, not a unique setup,
but really well maintained. That's about where they're at. And I think that's the better play
unless you're a semi collector, get one you can drive, you'll pay a lot less than 75,000 bucks
for it. So yeah, we've been teasing this 9 11 discussion. And what we want to do is, well,
to back up a little bit, hager top gear, not hagerty, top gear, top gear recently put out a
video, it was Jethro Bovington, British guy, he just put out a long video. If you haven't seen it,
go look it up, beautiful content, production, quality. They wanted to choose the best 9 11
ever. That was their task. And they, to set this up, they've got they had a warehouse,
some somebody's collection might have been a Porsche collection actually, with pretty much
all the different variants to choose from. Okay. And he goes out and drives a bunch of them. So
we started with the oldest ones, 73 RS, you got into 964 s 993 RS, and then he got into the water
cooled stuff, which was from oldest to youngest 997 GT three RS four liter. He got into a 991.2
GT two RS. Okay, sweet. And then lastly, the 9 11 ST. And he talks about more of them throughout,
but those are the six that he drives on camera. So it prompted this discussion with Shanu and I,
what are our favorite 9 11s? And in fact, we didn't choose one, we chose three. So
I started this by saying, Shanu, I can't choose three 9 11s that are my favorite,
because it gets really freaking hard to do that. I think I can choose my favorite 9 11,
but I can't choose three. I'm doing the best I can. And like I say, it'll probably change tomorrow.
You were very decisive about this. So why don't you start? Let's go from third place.
Let's try to rank these down third, second, first. Oh man, I didn't think of it that way.
But if you can, you go third, I'll go third, and then second, second, first. Got it. Okay. So listen,
then, you know, I'm speculating here, right? I certainly have a lot of C time in various 9 11s.
Ironically, the ones that I've chosen, I haven't quite driven. I've driven versions of them,
but it's fair. This exercise is not even just what's the best 9 11 you've driven. Yes. What's
your favorite 9 11? And that I think is totally fair to say what you can deduce a car would be
without having driven it, or just you loved the car. So I'll give you my reasons, okay,
because I think the performance of all the cars that I've chosen are exceptional. They're all fun
to drive. They're all 9 11s, which again, we've talked about being like the most, you know,
one of the most practical GTs you can own period. And so my number three is going to be a car that
I, you know, it's, it's, it's a modern one. Okay, it's the ST, it's the current ST.
I love the fact that they put this naturally aspirated engine in this high end touring basically
car. Yeah. And, and, and so for me, that car made my top three. Yeah. And it was basically,
but it's, it's the third one of the three that I've chosen. And mostly because it's, it's,
it's so modern. It's so computer controlled. It has, you know, the size of it. There's things
about it that's less desirable to me than the other two that I, that I chose. Yeah. Well,
that's interesting. I, I've been in an ST, I've driven kind of the little brother, just the new
GT three manual that has a bunch of bits from the ST. So I'm going to also stay modern, but not go
there. And I have chosen, you've chosen some really special cars, which you should. I went with
cars that I have driven or driven adjacent, you know, and just because when I think about my
favorites, I really, it becomes really personal for me of stuff that I've been in. This was so hard
because I love air cooled. I think if I buy a 911 again, I think I'm going to buy an old one,
not a modern one. So, but I would have to go number three for me is a car I got to rip through a
Canyon road. And I think it is very kind of singular in purpose, which is why I like this,
even though you can multi purposes car. And that is the 991.2 GT three RS. That's a great car. So
I put a PDK car on my list, which I know is it's hard for me to do. This is the one that I really
struggled to fill this spot. And there are so many good ones. But this car, I will never forget
driving this thing on a twisty Canyon road. I was so taken back, kind of like your dragon of just
like hard to digest everything in a 10, 15 minute drive. Yeah, I got to the end of it. It was almost
time for me to give the car back to the owner. Yeah, I'm like, I haven't even gotten to 9,000 RPMs.
Right. So I made sure I got into a very twisty road as a part where I could, you know, zing it out
all the way to the top. One of my favorite automotive sounds is that car PDK ripping off upshifts.
And it's like such a fantastic experience. I have and I would love to get one of those,
use it as it is intended to use, not cruising around town, maybe a little bit going up the
Canyon for sure. Yeah. But that is a car that needs to be driven hard on track. And it's only
my one of my favorite 911s if I was going to go with that in mind that you have to beat it hard
on track. Yeah, I mean, listen, I think these naturally aspirated cars, the way they sound,
they are so intoxicating. Right. And to your point, I mean, that you hear that and it's just
like, oh my God, the hair just stands up on the back of your neck, you know, and you're like,
this is so good. You know, this is so great. And you experience that when you're revving past 6,000
RPMs. Yeah, totally. Not when you're short shifting the damping at 4,000 RPMs, right? No.
Like a lot of people do, you know, and, you know, like we're discussing earlier, you know,
I do think a lot of people buy these cars and they don't really drive them hard.
Yeah. They're short shifting these cars. 100%. Yeah, they're not experiencing what's possible.
Now, partially it's because it becomes so freaking fast that it's hard to extract that in many places,
right? And so, yeah, well, that's a great one. I mean, it prompted me to think of something that
I forgot to put, I could have put on the list. Well, maybe we'll do a couple of honorable mentions.
Yeah. I think we have a little bit of time. But I will say one of my favorite experiences,
automotive wise, is I like going to our track in Salt Lake, we have an east and a west, but when
you're running out or loop or the full track, you get a really long straight. Right, right.
And I like to go on the days where we're running the whole thing. Okay.
Not because I love that much as going, you know, in my own car. But when it's not my turn,
I like to go out there, you can stand right on the barrier on the street.
Okay. And listen to GT3s that are PDK. Yeah, flying by.
Flying by. And there's something about PDK and that motor that is just like,
and then they get to the end of the straight, you can still hear them. They start ripping off
these downshifts and like, good heavens, man. That's, that's why it makes my list.
So I'll go with my second and then we can jump back to you. Okay, good.
It's a 3.2 Carrera from the 80s. Okay. Yes. Classic. I mean, the club sport is a car that I've
always thought, you know, if I was writing a big check and I wanted a special car,
right, I have to think that car would be awesome. But to some extent,
did that one have a graphic on the fender? Yes. And it also didn't have accordion bumpers,
which is interesting for an impact bumper car. But the 3.2 Carrera, like why? Yes,
I've owned the car. So you say, oh, well, you're just biased because you own this thing.
I always, you know, we all daydream about, hey, when's it going to be time to get back into another
Porsche 911, right? I seriously should new thing that if and when that day comes,
I think I'm going back to 3.2. It's, it's like, you're an analog guy, man. You like,
you like the experience of driving a car that demands your attention. Yeah. I heard Jerry
Seinfeld, I've heard him say a couple of times, people ask him, what's your favorite 911? I've
heard him say the 964S, which I agree is fantastic car. But I heard him once say there is just
nothing like the 80s, 911s. You know, there's a vibe to them. There's an experience factor with
these cars. There's a purity with these cars. And I love that they are not trying to be something
they're not. They aren't a track toy. I don't guys run them hard on track, but I look at track
cars differently now that I've had this 111 RS. There needs to be a certain amount of precision
and just capability to go on track. Right. These are just, they're reliable in the grand scheme.
They are so good to look at. They are such a fun car to drive quickly and to drive hard,
but in on the canyon or in the canyons. So I just love the cars. I think I would like to own
another one. And it's like simplicity of 911 is with some performance. I think that's a great
choice. If I'm honest, it may be just because of my age, but when I think of the 911, it's the G
bodies that come to my head. If I've got my eyes closed and I'm just thinking about 911s,
it's usually a G body that comes to my head first, even though it's not my favorite, right?
So my second favorite, maybe this is a good segue, right? Please. Okay. So I have had
seat time. So my favorite turbo, my favorite turbo is certainly is the 964 turbos. Okay.
That to me was peak turbo styling. It had the aggression. It still looked very functional.
It looks, it looked really meaty. Some of these current turbos look a little bit too
arrow, a little bit too melted, a little bit too fancy, you know? Yeah. 964 turbo for me is peak
turbo, but, and I've driven one and, and, and a couple of them actually, and I love that car,
but the one that I chose, you know, is an even more obscure version called the flock bow
slant, slant nose, right? But this particular one, okay, from 94 to 3.6 s, you know, they,
they put 928 headlights on it. Unlike the previous slant noses, this one, you see the headlights
like a 928. They don't pop up. They pop up. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. So, and it probably stems
from my, I do like the 928 and not just because the movie risky business, but because of the
headlights. But the headlights are cool, man. And, you know, I'd like the 968, you know,
it had the pop up headlights like that. So this car, it was so different from the standard 911s.
You know, I mean, look, a normal 3.6, you know, normal 964 turbo is perfectly acceptable to me.
Yeah. But this slant nose version was the one that I really liked a lot. And I think the story
was something like the factory had like 30 some cars left over, and they decided to do this
modification to them and sell them as a special edition car and off. I don't know what it is.
I've never been able to get into the slant nose thing. It just doesn't resonate totally with my
eye. It does delete one of the key like features of a 911, right? Those headlights, right? And again,
that's why the 996, I think, was so, you know, you know, they got blasted because it took what
we expected from the headlights and made such a huge change to that. And so, you know, I'm thinking
that's probably part of why you don't, you know, you didn't like it. But like the 935, you know,
race cars, you know, to me, we're 911s, we're Porsches, right? And so a slant nose kind of just
fits with my view of the race version of the car. So anyways, that's 911 number two for me.
Okay. So what's your favorite 911? Today, my opinion would probably change tomorrow,
if you ask me, although I don't think on this one it will. But what's yours?
So listen, this is more from the romance side of the whole program, okay?
That's the point.
Yeah, man. And like I've driven early 70s vintage 911, 60s vintage 911s.
I was in hot in the market for an S, you know, back in the 90s. And then I thought now I'm
gonna pick up a T and in those are days when you could buy these cars for 20 grand, 10 grand,
you know? But a picture of a 73 RS has been on my wall since the mid 90s.
I found this in Japan and I brought it back. I framed the thing. It's been on my wall since then.
And I have always been enamored with that car. You know, the history of that car,
the styling of that car, the thought of it being so special.
You know, and then it was even in a Seinfeld episode. The marble rye, you know, this car,
it was one of his cars, I'm sure he had it parked out in the street in the winter in New York City.
I'm like, what in the hell is that car doing parked in the street in New York City? You know?
And of course, you know, it was one of his little Easter eggs, but
now I love that is my favorite 911. And obviously, the market agrees in that it's
the values of those things as just in either a million dollar car now, right? 23
4000000 dollar car. Yeah. Well, Jethro said in this video, they added the duck bill
spoiler. They just kept building it up higher and until they got the intended,
you know, downforce effect on that car. And I mean, I have a feeling that's one of those
cars. If I drove it, I would feel very similarly to you. One of my problems with long hoods is,
especially with the big old steering wheel that those cars all have. I just, I'm not comfortable
in them. I don't fit very well in those cars. And I used to always think 73 RS to me was probably
the halo. Like if I could just wave the wand and have any of them, I think that is a car that I
would love. And then I, you know, spent more time in a long hood and like ergonomically,
it just doesn't suit me very well. So it's funny how that has kind of caused me to be less enamored
by the thing. But I can't imagine we both love the pure driving experience. It gets much better
than that. And so yeah, I, I totally, I'd like to say, I think you're nuts or I disagree with you.
But I'm feeling, I feel similarly. Yeah, we should do another one. Your favorite driving 9-11s that
you've actually driven. Yeah. Like I think I've speculated here with, with more than anything
else, I've driven cars adjacent to them, but I haven't actually driven the cars on my list.
Well, my mind would line up pretty similarly actually, because my favorite, unfortunately,
mirrors what Jethro said is 997 GT3 to me is like such a unique sweet spot.
Sure. The car, the four liter. Well, he chose the four liter. Yes. This is so,
I was really close to buying a 997 GT3. I think I've mentioned that here. I have a buddy who bought
a dot one and I like the dot one because I like lug nuts and not center locks, you know, for like
a car I'm going to have in my garage. But he had the 36 motor, the dot one, blew the motor
as a fluke thing. And it was like 29,000 miles or something on this motor. He didn't money shift it.
He was accelerating onto an on ramp, blew the motor. Well, he decided to spend instead of 70
grand to fix it, spent 90 grand and he boarded it to a four liter and put some of the RS four
liter components from that car onto his car, clutch, flywheel, some of the other drivetrain
stuff. Okay. He let me drive it and I was like mesmerized by this car and he happened to have
a shark works race exhaust on it. Okay. It was too loud. I like tried to roll my windows up 10
minutes into the drive and like that's not better. Yeah. So I would have changed that. Sure. It was
way too loud. That's easy. Yeah. But like the energy behind this car, she knew was, I mean,
heavy clutch, kind of like the dragons was real heavy, heavy shifter. It takes a lot of work.
You're driving a mechanical device that happens to also be very like nice inside without canterra
everywhere. Yeah. And the Metzger motor, I think get a little bit overrated because the four liter
gem that's in all the new stuff is like it doesn't get better. Yeah. But this car just had so much
texture to it, but also a raw character and most definingly, possibly is that it felt very rear
engine. It had an old school vibe to where I immediately was in it and had a lot of respect
for it in terms of I got to be careful driving this on a twisty road because it handles differently.
They hadn't engineered all of the rear engine out of this car. So it was adjacent to an RS4
liter. Yes, just had some of the bits and similar horsepower. Sure. Had the lightweight flywheel.
I mean, this thing, you breathe on it and it was like race car snappy. Nice. And I had first
ride a refusal on the car. It might forever haunt me that I didn't do it. Fortunately,
I ended up with your 111 RS that I knew I would actually get more use out of. Sure. And I think
it was faster on track, frankly, because you know, more confidence and less like scary to hoon that
thing. Yeah. But anyways, such a sweet spot for me. That being said, I genuinely love the old
cars. And I think I think you certainly nailed it. Yeah, I think I think that is probably one of
us. The sweetest 9-11s, you know, of our time that that's yeah, you chose a good car. Yeah,
that's that is a serious driver's car. Yeah. Well, the values of them have gone nuts,
just like the 73 RS. Yeah. It could still kind of get a standard GT3, 9 and 7s within the air
shop. But it's a there are a lot of great cars. We could talk about all the lists of the other
cars we did not choose. But really good. So to tie a bow on this thing, we do have a listener
question, Shenu. Yes. Well, it's not a question. It's more a question that I put together based
on a comment that I got back to this GT4 long gearing discussion. And this was a comment a
guy named Jeremy made. He said, some people cannot take any criticism about their car.
I don't mind. I know people will talk badly about Lamborghini and McLaren. I assume this is
Lamborghini and and or a McLaren owner. So my question to you, Shenu, is
are we all too sensitive or get too defensive about our cars? So we just left off some really
great 9-11s. There's people who bag on E46 M3s who think the Lotus Elise 111 RS is maybe
too expensive. We talked about this last week. So listen to that segment about the everyday
driver review on the 111 RS. So yeah, are we too quick to be sensitive or defensive? Have you
seen that? What's your take on that? Yeah, man. I mean, listen, we love our cars, man. We put
these things on pedestals, right? We worship these things. And it's almost as though they're like an
extension of us. And that's what's happening when somebody's criticizing that car. It's as though
we're feeling like we're being criticized, right? Instead of just saying, Hey, look,
he's made a comment about that car. It's a thing, you know, it doesn't, it's not a living,
breathing thing, right? Right. So I think that have you been defensive about your cars because
I mean, yeah, we always get that way. But there's points where you start to once you've driven
lots of different cars, then you start to start appreciate why there is no perfect car.
I think you what you, you start to get to a point where you start appreciating
each car for what it really, what makes it shine. And you kind of revel in that, right? And it's
like I was saying about this 996RR, you know, hustling this car through, you know, the canyons.
And in the back of my mind, I'm like, Oh, I want to make it a little sharper here. I want to turn
it a little quicker. I want to do that. And also I'm realizing, wait, why are you just trying to
make it into a Lotus? Yeah, it's not a Lotus. You know, as I'm mowing over the bumps and the
potholes, if I did that in a Lotus, the car would feel like it just fell apart, you know,
versus a 911, it's so solid, right? So yeah, revel in the things that make that car special and
enjoy it for that reason. Yeah. Okay. And so these people that think they got the perfect car,
they just, they haven't driven enough cars to realize that no such thing exists.
Well, and it doesn't exist for all the purposes, because I'm becoming more and more
convinced if you want to go out for fun. Yeah. I mean, the 111RS is hard to beat and you got
mountains everywhere and the roof's off. And it's like, you couldn't pay me enough to get into
most other enthusiast cars. Right. For that use case. case,
absolutely. And we talked about the different types of enthusiasts. Right.
And the old BMWs, I'm nostalgic, 100%. They're good cars to drive. Yeah. But like,
they're not that special. But when you add nostalgia and, you know, memories with this thing
and the cars we want to like. Yeah. And we suddenly become not objective about these.
Yeah. It's based on other criteria and factors. And so, you know, that context has to be given
when it comes to criticizing this car or preferring that car. Or, you know, it's like if I said,
hey, Shanu, you know, I don't love pizza, man. Well, it's hard to even say out loud because I do.
Pizza sucks. I'd rather have a burger, you know, you're not. And you're like the world's biggest
pizza guy. You're not going to get offended by that. You're going to be like, well, that's,
that's his loss. If he doesn't like pizza. That's more for me. You know, so something about the car
because pizza is not an extension of you. And I think that's the whole point. And we've spent a
lot of money on these cars. And there certainly is the money that we spend. But I think that it's,
it's so much of our hobby, you know, when we're car guys and we're so into something and we join
a club, right? We start drinking the Kool-Aid, man. We're wearing the gear, you know, we're hanging
out with like-minded people talking about, oh, man, does your TII have the square headlights
or doesn't have the round headlights? You know, and we're, we're getting off on all this esoteric
shit. And we just, we get so caught up in all of this, right? And so I do love me a round tail
like TII, you know, pre-74 or whatever. Exactly. Look, you know, these are the things that we've
got to remember. I remember when I drove that 964 Turbo and I remember looking around and I thought,
man, look at the visibility. You know, it's like a fishbowl. You can, like the pillars are so thin,
you can see everything as you're looking around in this car, right? You're like, oh man, this is
great, you know? And then I, you know, I got on it and the acceleration was, well, okay, you know,
it's not that fast by today's standards, right? If you've driven the drag and you put your foot in,
it's like, oh my God, it's 0-60 in three seconds. That's quick. When you're in an open car, it feels
faster. My face is still red. I just had that experience. Yeah. But it's like, but that even,
that is becoming slow. Okay. There are plenty of EVs that are a second faster than that to 60.
Two second cars now, right? And I mean, the new ZR1X is a two second car. So it's like,
these things, everything starts shifting, but the reality is you can still have these wonderful
experiences. And so don't get too hung up if somebody's criticizing your car is what I say.
No, but, and the other reason not to do that to Trevor's point is we're all too sensitive.
I think buying decisions are largely made because people don't want to be criticized.
Because if you say, hey, listen, we just talked about 9-11s. We like them. But it's like,
I think most guys are buying 9-11s or a lot of guys because they know that they're never going
to be bagged on for buying the iconic Porsche sports cars. Very, very safe. Right. And I know
people who have bought Miata's who are like so sensitive because they had a family member's
teasers. They pulled up to a gathering as Miata was outside. And that car was sold not long after
that. He may not admit it, but deep down, I think, oh, it's because, you know, the brother-in-law who
had a 9-11 turbo at the time turned out he couldn't afford the car. So we sold it. And, but at the time,
he's bagging on my buddy's ND Miata. And I'm like, you asked me which of those two cars I'd want to
own and drive? Money, no object, whatever. If they cost the same, give me the Miata. Like,
but I think that's why, you know, it drives so many people's decisions. And then once you get
them, you get defensive and you want to feel validated. And I just think, you know, it's
something I think we can all work on getting over. If you're buying a car for the status,
okay, then you better buy the coolest thing you can buy. Okay. Because if that's what really,
you know, validates you and makes you feel good, then so be it. But for those of us who want to
drive our cars and have fun with them, you know, who cares what other people have to say? Well,
you know, like a guy in a cruiser was driving faster in a canyon than I could in this 996.
Harley-Davidson motorcycle cruiser. Yeah, I don't know what it was. Okay.
It was something customized because there's no way any Harley can go that fast. But anyways,
it was something special. But my point is, there's always going to be somebody who's going to be
able to go faster in a lesser vehicle, right? This guy's on two wheels. I'm on four. How on the
hell is he going so quick? You know, and so, but the point is that you got to, you got to revel in
what you love and what you're capable of loving in the car, right? And so anyways,
that's probably our therapy section for this year, right? Find out what you love. Why don't you love?
Buy it. You'll always find a home somewhere in this crazy car world that is really fun.
We come in all shapes and sizes and all flavors. We might make fun of you if you own a slant nose,
like Shenu just said he loves. Listen, or a Miata, which I love. Yes. And you have one.
I have one. I love it too. And it's like, but that is what makes it fun. So Trevor,
that was a good thought. Thanks for commenting. And reach out to us, fulltrodletalk.com.
There's a newsletter. Shenu just wrote a fantastic article about this. It's more than just about
the cars. It's about the community. Yeah, I think that actually kind of dovetails in. Porsche's got
the best community out there. So some guys just love being attached to PCA and they do it the best.
So like I totally get that, but that speaks to kind of your article, but that's a free article.
Let us know if you're going to be at car week. We're going to go. We've got some fun plans in
the way. Yes. We have several things coming together there. We're trying to whip up a little
venue where we can meet at, maybe get a drink, have a bite to eat or something and just hang out
and talk. And so we'd love to see some of you guys come out there. We're working a couple of
things out. So we might have a boutique car or two there as well that we can all kind of just
fondle and ogle over. Well, you're making me a boutique car guy. So Shenu, I got to stop hanging
out with this guy. And on that note, let's all go by 9-elevens and forget Shenu. Forget Shenu.
Well, that's certainly a possibility. So listen, this was fun. We think now
one mic might actually work for two people. We'll find out, right? We'll see. We might get
some hate for that, but we appreciate the patience. So hey, just because we can, in person, give me
one of those. Nice. Thanks Blair. Okay, see you buddy. Take care.
About this episode
Shanu and the host kick off with a funny Puerto Rico dispatch from Tim Harris, who says an interview for a Chief Luche Officer role went sideways after seeing the “luche” (and possibly eating carpaccio). Back in Southern California, Shanu is prepping the host’s 111RS for a long drive home, while the host shares fresh seat time in a Dragon Spider—an “assault on the senses” with immediate throttle, heavy steering, and analog feel. They also swap 996/911 stories, including an Orange County Concourse show and Ortega Highway runs where a road closure led to a thrilling turnaround and a surprising motorcycle challenge.
This week on Full Throttle Talk, Blair and Shinoo record in person from Southern California — and the episode goes from weird car news to full-blown driving obsession fast.
Blair gets behind the wheel of the Dragon Spider, a 2,000-pound analog weapon with Corvette power and zero interest in being polite. Shinoo gives an update on the 996 RR, including the reactions from the PCA crowd, the bedliner front end, the wheel setup, and a surprise run through Ortega Highway.
Then the guys dive into the latest headlines: the next Mazda Miata possibly becoming the last gas-powered Miata, Lamborghini’s hybrid Urus, Slate truck preorder drama, and the Corvette story that changes the value conversation completely — a base Stingray that can reportedly hit 200 MPH for around $74,000.
From there, it’s auction madness: a manual F10 BMW M5 for $28,000, the real cost of owning old German performance cars, and an E46 M3 slicktop selling for serious money.
Plus, Blair and Shinoo get into the 911 debate, but not like collectors comparing garage jewelry — they talk about which cars actually deliver the experience, the sound, the fear, and the feel.
And finally: are car people too defensive when someone criticizes their car?
Subscribe, buckle up, and get the newsletter at FullThrottleTalk.com
