Advanced mobility is framed as an emerging ecosystem for the Detroit region, shaped by electrification, automation, and AI-driven tools. Kristin Dziczek connects Washington policy and tariffs to slower adoption and investment, while arguing innovators should treat “headwinds” as “tailwinds.” Detroit’s competitiveness is improving, but the region needs strategy, critical mass, and access to capital beyond subsidies. The conversation also contrasts legacy automakers’ roles with smaller startups, and looks to China and past Japanese competition for lessons.
Kristin Dziczek took a seat at The Mobility Table with Jeannine and Bernard to discuss the implementation of AI within the automotive industry, the impact of the mobility industry on the broader economy in Detroit and the impacts of the USMCA trade agreement review.
Kristin Dziczek currently acts as a senior policy advisor to the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago’s research, policy and public engagement division. Before her position at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, Kristin served as the senior vice president of research at the Center for Automotive Research (CAR).
"I remember getting excited about rolled fillets on crankshafts and engines and, you know, overhead camshafts and things like that."
An overhead camshaft is an engine design where the camshaft is up in the top part of the engine (the cylinder head). That helps the engine open and close the valves more accurately. More accurate valve timing can mean smoother running and better power.
Overhead camshafts (OHC) are an engine design where the camshaft(s) sit in the cylinder head instead of lower in the engine block. That layout can improve how precisely the engine controls valve timing, which helps performance and efficiency. Many modern engines use OHC because it supports higher revving and more advanced valve control.
"I remember getting excited about rolled fillets on crankshafts and engines and, you know, overhead camshafts and things like that."
The crankshaft is the main rotating part inside an engine. It takes the piston’s back-and-forth motion and turns it into spinning power. That spinning power is what ultimately gets sent to the drivetrain.
A crankshaft is the rotating shaft inside an engine that converts the up-and-down motion of the pistons into rotational motion. It’s central to how an engine produces usable power to drive the wheels. When people talk about “crankshaft” tech, they’re usually referring to strength, bearing design, and how smoothly it can spin at high RPM.
"I'm sure we'll probably get into it, drones and things like that. But I mean, that didn't exist back then."
Drones are flying machines that don’t have a pilot inside. They can be controlled remotely or fly on their own using sensors. People discuss them as a possible new transportation option, especially for deliveries.
Drones are unmanned aircraft that can be controlled remotely or autonomously, often using onboard sensors and GPS. In mobility policy discussions, drones usually come up as a potential new way to move people or deliver goods. The relevance is that the same AI, connectivity, and safety engineering themes can carry over from cars to air mobility.
"I feel like this is one thing that makes the industry, if we can think of it as a mobility industry that much more attractive to young people, right?"
“Mobility industry” means the whole world of transportation, not just making cars. It includes how people and goods move—like driving, transit, delivery, and even new options like drones. The idea is that innovation can happen across many types of transportation.
“Mobility industry” is a broader framing than “automotive industry,” covering all the ways people and goods move—cars, public transit, logistics, and increasingly drones and other connected systems. The concept matters because it changes what counts as competition and innovation: not just new car models, but new transportation services and infrastructure. That’s why the speaker ties together electrification, self-driving, and drones under one umbrella.
"we have these fantastic new technologies that we're deploying vehicles that are electric powered or that drive themselves, but also the entre gives you into drones and other things."
“Drive themselves” means the vehicle can control how it steers and speeds up/brakes using sensors and software. Depending on the system, a person may still supervise or may not be required at all. It’s part of the move toward self-driving cars.
“Drive themselves” points to autonomous driving systems—software and sensors that can control steering, acceleration, and braking without continuous human input. In automotive terms, this is typically discussed as levels of automation, from driver assistance to fully autonomous operation. The big mobility implication is that vehicles can be used differently (and potentially more efficiently) than conventional cars.
"we have these fantastic new technologies that we're deploying vehicles that are electric powered or that drive themselves, but also the entre gives you into drones and other things."
“Electric powered” means the car uses an electric motor to move instead of relying on a gasoline engine. Usually it’s powered by a battery you can charge. The driving system is controlled electronically.
“Electric powered” refers to vehicles that use electric motors for propulsion, typically via a battery and power electronics. In mobility discussions, this usually means battery-electric vehicles (BEVs) and sometimes plug-in hybrids, depending on context. The key shift is that propulsion and energy management are handled electrically rather than by an internal-combustion engine.
"I, you know, yes, there may be some pessimism about electrification rates, things like that."
Electrification rates mean how fast people are switching from gas-powered vehicles to electric vehicles. It’s basically a “how quickly is the change happening?” number. Policymakers watch it to see if the transition is moving fast enough.
Electrification rates describe how quickly transportation is shifting from gasoline/diesel to electric power (usually measured by EV sales share, EV adoption, or charging infrastructure growth). Policy and economics discussions often focus on whether that transition is happening fast enough to meet environmental and energy goals. The phrase implies a measurable pace, not just the existence of EV technology.
"I will point out, however, even the legacies like GM and Ford
[959.0s] recognize this, you know, Ford created Skunkworks out in California to come"
GM is General Motors, a big old-school car company. The host is saying even companies like GM are trying to change how they make cars and software.
GM is General Motors, a major legacy automaker. In this segment, it’s mentioned as an example of a traditional automaker trying to change how it builds cars and software.
"I will point out, however, even the legacies like GM and Ford
[959.0s] recognize this, you know, Ford created Skunkworks out in California to come"
Ford is a long-established car company. The host is saying Ford set up a special team to try new ways of making cars, especially for electric vehicles.
Ford is a legacy automaker that the host credits with creating a “Skunkworks” effort in California. The point is that established automakers are trying to break from older processes to develop new manufacturing and EV strategies.
"[959.0s] recognize this, you know, Ford created Skunkworks out in California to come
[963.9s] up with a radically different way of manufacturing cars to slash the cost of
[969.0s] making an EV."
A “skunkworks” is a special fast-moving team inside a company. The idea is to experiment and build new tech without the usual slow rules.
“Skunkworks” refers to a small, semi-independent team set up to develop new technology quickly, often outside normal corporate processes. In the segment, it’s used to describe Ford’s attempt to rethink car manufacturing to reduce EV costs.
"up with a radically different way of manufacturing cars to slash the cost of
[969.0s] making an EV.
[973.4s] General Motors has set up its software and product development"
EV means electric vehicle. It’s a car that runs mainly on electricity from a battery, and the discussion here is about making those cars cheaper to build.
EV stands for electric vehicle—cars (and sometimes trucks) powered primarily by electric motors and batteries. The host connects EV development to manufacturing cost reduction and to how legacy automakers are reorganizing software and product development.
"Well, you know, the whole VTOL thing, you
[1014.9s] know, I call them drones. Don't talk to the VTOL manufacturers and call them
[1019.7s] drones. They hate that. They call them vertical takeoff or landing."
VTOL is a type of aircraft that can take off and land straight up and down. The host thinks this could change how people move around, but the companies prefer the VTOL wording.
VTOL means vertical takeoff or landing, describing aircraft that can lift off and land vertically instead of needing a runway. The host frames VTOL as potentially “revolutionary” for mobility, while noting manufacturers may prefer the technical term over “drones.”
"It's right on our doorstep. It's
[1027.5s] happening right now. We've seen things like last mile delivery kind of
[1033.2s] approaches, whether it's, you know, electric scooters."
Last mile delivery is the final leg of shipping—getting a package from a nearby location to your home. The host is saying this is one area where new delivery tech is already being tried.
Last mile delivery is the final step of getting goods from a local hub to the customer’s doorstep. The segment treats it as a key “new mobility” use case where small vehicles and automation can reduce delivery friction and cost.
"last mile delivery kind of
[1033.2s] approaches, whether it's, you know, electric scooters.
[1040.3s] I think there's even going to be a lot of more interest in pedal vehicles, electric assist,"
Electric scooters are scooters powered by a battery and electric motor. They’re often used for short rides, and the host is listing them as examples of newer mobility tools.
Electric scooters are small, battery-powered personal mobility devices used for short trips, often in cities. In this segment, they’re cited as part of “new mobility” options that move people and goods differently than traditional cars.
"I think there's even going to be a lot of more interest in pedal vehicles, electric assist, you
[1044.7s] know, e-bikes are all over the place. Absolutely."
E-bikes are regular bikes with a battery-powered motor that helps you pedal. The host is saying they’re becoming more popular as a practical alternative for short trips.
E-bikes are bicycles with an electric motor that assists pedaling, typically using a rechargeable battery. The host mentions them as a growing category of “pedal vehicles” that can make commuting easier without relying on a car.
"And autonomy. We're going to have all kinds of autonomous
[1053.3s] little, you know, we have already seen that in Ann Arbor. You know, Domino's was
[1059.4s] experimenting."
Ann Arbor is a city in Michigan. The host is using it as an example of where autonomous delivery has already been tried.
Ann Arbor is a city in Michigan where the host says autonomous delivery vehicles have already been demonstrated. It’s used as an example of real-world testing for new mobility tech.
"And autonomy. We're going to have all kinds of autonomous
[1053.3s] little, you know, we have already seen that in Ann Arbor. You know, Domino's was
[1059.4s] experimenting. I think it was Domino's. I hope I got that right."
Autonomy here means self-driving behavior—vehicles or robots doing the driving themselves. The host is talking about delivery robots that can move around without a person steering them.
In automotive and mobility contexts, autonomy refers to vehicles or robots operating with minimal or no human control. The host connects autonomy to real-world delivery experiments using small autonomous vehicles that navigate sidewalks.
"[1053.3s] little, you know, we have already seen that in Ann Arbor. You know, Domino's was
[1059.4s] experimenting. I think it was Domino's. I hope I got that right."
Domino’s is a pizza delivery company. The host mentions it because they were trying out delivery robots/vehicles that could drive themselves.
Domino’s is a pizza delivery brand used here as an example of a company experimenting with autonomous delivery. The host is describing a delivery setup where small autonomous vehicles drive around to deliver orders.
"...Stellantis, you know, more agile and more cutting edge and all that. I don't think we should rely on the..."
The Ford Edge is a mid-size SUV made by Ford. It’s meant for regular driving and family use, with extra space compared to smaller cars. People talk about it because it’s a common, practical option in the SUV category.
The Ford Edge is a mid-size crossover SUV from Ford, designed for everyday driving with a comfortable ride and practical interior space. It often comes up in discussions about mainstream SUVs because it targets buyers who want something bigger than a compact SUV but not as large as a full-size model. In a podcast, it may be mentioned as part of the broader conversation about how different automakers position their “family” vehicles and feature sets.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Mobility Table.
I am your host Bernard Swicky, VP of Mobility and Research at GEM.
And I am Janine Gantt, the Mobility Engagement Officer for the Global
Epicenter of Mobility and we are really happy to have you here today. You know,
this is the table that we want to make sure everyone can see themselves ahead.
This new emerging ecosystem related to advanced mobility is critically important
for the Detroit region and I think we've had a lot of really good guests that
have come in and talked about a variety of different kind of topics as it relates
to advanced mobility. So this is a great table and we're really happy to have you
here with us today. Yep, totally. And Janine, today it's time to get to some of
the brass tacks and we're gonna be addressing some of the more negative
commentary that you see out there about mobility and competitiveness and then
of course talking about how we're addressing this in the Detroit region
with programs like GEM but with so many other allies as well. Chief among them,
frankly, the tremendous automaker and supplier and innovator presence that we
have. But you know, I thought this is an episode that we need because, frankly,
looking at the headlines out there and especially when it comes to the headlines
you see about China, right? The idea that it almost seems, if you just stick to
the headlines, that the edge that China has in so many of these innovative fields
when it comes to mobility seems insurmountable, at least from a distance.
Well, you know, Bernard, I'm a glass full type woman. Like, you know what I mean?
Like, I believe in American ingenuity and I believe that whatever is in front of
us because we've got that Detroit for it and the Detroit region has that grid
that we can find our place in a space of leadership for this entire advanced
mobility system. So I hear you and maybe this would be good like back and forth
between us like half empty, half full. But I'm really, you know, I believe in
Detroit and I believe in the region and, you know, we have proven ourselves in the
past to be leaders in this space. So yeah, there may be some competition.
No, and for the record, I'm not a pessimist, but I just feel like we need to drag
this stuff out there because we know it's in the backs of people's minds, right?
You can't not see the headlines and hear some of that pessimism, particularly as
we get policies out of Washington that are more likely to slow adoption and
investment and sort of growth in some of these technology areas. So I think that
means it's that much more important to make good use of the resources that we've
got. I agree. I mean, if I think about when we first started doing this work with
Little Weapon Center Mobility, I think there weren't tariffs, right? It was a
different time, a different administration. And I think folks had a lot of, you
know, there were a lot of ideas of where it would be in the year 2030. And
certainly those things have slowed down a little bit. I mean, we're still moving
forward. But I think you're right. I think people are really starting to think
of how do we move forward? Do we still, is it too late for us to move forward? I
saw a great article that was written by Glenn Stevens in Who's with Machado in
Crane's Detroit business. And he asked the question, you know, the question was,
is it too late for us? Is it too late for Detroit? And I think his perspective was,
we need to lean in and keep moving forward. Yeah. No, no. And I like, you know,
you have to ask that provocative question. And I ask it too. But, you know, by the
way, spoiler alert, the answer is, no, it's not too late. Right? But if we look
at the grand audacious goal, right, you know, if I have to describe it, it always
comes down to the domination that Detroit had a few decades ago in automotive. Not
when we talk of mobility, which is electrified, automated automotive, but it's
also things that fly, float, aerospace, you name it, right? My grand vision is,
can we be to all those mobility sectors, what we historically have been to
automotive, right? And I think, you know, to get ahead of some of the answers,
it may not be possible at that same level of granularity, right? And we have to be
very realistic about it. But we still can have overall leadership. We still can be
the place where this comes together in a greater asset base than anywhere else.
Well, the thing for me that I see so much of in this particular, as I'm out in
Detroit, I'm at Michigan Central, I'm at New Lab, I'm at various conferences and
meetings, you know, you could not tell these new innovators and founders that
the glasses have to be. And I keep referring back to that. But I mean, these
folks have this this mindset that we are moving forward. I heard one of them say,
you know, people are talking a lot about these headwinds that we're receiving.
And an innovator doesn't see them as headwinds, they see them as tailwinds.
Well, and there are problems to solve. Exactly. Every one of them.
Yeah. Yeah. So I think we lead with our energy. I think we lead with our
innovation. You know, I think we lead and continue to move forward in that kind of
way. I think things will fall in place for us, right? In a way that will be
impactful for our region, the people here, and the folks that are trying to build
prosperity. I see that, you know, Bernard, you know how we are, right? I'm always
like human lens on something. I know you're like more of the tech guy and the
research and so forth. But, you know, I think we have to give folks something
that they can believe in. Like their conversation won't be, are we the
leader? I think their conversation is going to be around, is there opportunity
for me? And I think that we can create that. Again, we know that opportunity is
there. We do, we do. Yeah. All right. And I think that's the perfect note on
which to bring on our guests today. Yes. And so it's my pleasure to welcome to
the table someone I've known for many, many years going back. Goodness gracious
to the 90s, even I would say. But maybe we don't need to dwell on that part of
it. So I'd love to welcome to the mobility table our guest for today, John
McElroy, who is the host of Outline.
And welcome back to the mobility table. We are joined by John McElroy, host of
Outline. John, welcome. Yeah, thanks for having me, you guys. We're happy to have
you here. And listen, I'm going to just kick something off because I feel like
this conversation is going to be one between you two. Like, you know, old
friends and have known each other for a long time. Jump in and by all means. So
I know you've got your own show and you have some amazing guests that you've had
come on. What excites you most about this kind of emerging advanced mobility
ecosystem under this industry? Well, it's new. It's different. It offers all
kinds of growth opportunity. I mean, what's not to get excited about it. It's
going to be a new way of moving people and goods. You know, I remember the old
SAE Society of Automotive Engineers tagline used to be freedom through
mobility. And I still believe that the more mobility that you provide to people
and goods, the more the economy is going to grow, it's going to be better for
everyone. So you bet I'm excited about it.
No, and John, I feel like, you know, we've studied the industry for decades
now. And I feel like at every point we talked about, Oh, my goodness, this is
revolutionary change. And it always seemed like it was transformative. But now
looking back at it, I feel like little did we know that how non transformative
that change was, because now that we're in the midst of this electrification
automation, everything happening simultaneously, competition from China
were spreading automotive technology into other mobility sectors. Holy cow.
This is the transformational part. This is generational.
Look, you took the words right out of my mouth. Little did we know. I remember
getting excited about rolled fillets on crankshafts and engines and, you know,
overhead camshafts and things like that. We thought that was wow, really moving
the needle forward. It was nothing compared to today. Today we are definitely
revolutionizing mobility, inventing new ways of moving things. I'm sure we'll
probably get into it, drones and things like that. But I mean, that didn't exist
back then. And while those other things that I just mentioned, improve the
automobile or the engines within them, it didn't change mobility. Now we're
seeing that kind of change. That's a great way to encapsulate it. No, and I
feel like this is one thing that makes the industry, if we can think of it as a
mobility industry that much more attractive to young people, right? Because
we have these fantastic new technologies that we're deploying vehicles that are
electric powered or that drive themselves, but also the entre gives you
into drones and other things. You know, I feel a little bit of, you know, yes,
there may be some pessimism about electrification rates, things like that.
But in so many ways, mobility has brought sexiness back. No question about it.
Look, I mean, you know, for young people, the allure of a 100 year old company,
not exactly there, right? I mean, it's been there. It's doing its thing. It's
going to continue doing its thing. But to get into new things that can transform
society in a better way, improve the environment, that's what's going to get
young people interested. I shouldn't say get them. They already are interested,
but that's what's bringing them in. I mean, it's funny. I, you know, young
people, I was talking with someone who was about teaching young people about
drones. And, you know, I said, you know, kids know how to use these remote
controls. Like they game, they're gamers. So this is nothing for them.
Like this is like a natural evolution for them to be able to control a drone,
right? And there's a lot of energy and excitement about those kind of new
technologies. But for them, yeah, this is just, this is natural.
Right. No, you're right, Janine. You know, what we think of is, oh, can we do
this? Will this actually happen to them? It's already done. It's obvious.
Of course, we're going that way.
Yes. And I feel we need that injection, you know, in this mobility industry of
that can do attitude. That's right. And frankly, if it improves our speed of
evolution, the degree with which we can change our products or introduce new
products, you know, that will help with what I feel is like the elephant in the
room, which is this topic of competition with China, right? We've seen such fast,
you know, this step function approach to evolution, as opposed to some sort of
line on a graph, that I feel like we need this injection of can do attitude
and pace from electronics, from, you know, those other industries that are now
becoming a part of mobility. Right. Well, you know, a little bit of history here.
We sort of went through those in the 1980s and 1990s with the Japanese auto
industry. It looked like China of today. It looked like the Japanese were
unstoppable and they were going to take over everything. So what did the
American automakers and suppliers do? They studied what the Japanese were
doing. We did focus groups. I've been already used to be at the Center for
Automotive Research. You guys were involved in that. There was a great book
that came out at MIT called The Machine That Changed the World. Everybody
studied the Toyota production system. And what happened by the early 90s?
Certainly the mid 90s. Detroit had totally caught up in terms of
productivity. And I would even argue in quality and definitely in terms of
profitability. So now what do we have to do? We need to study the Chinese and
figure out what aspects of what's going on in China can we adopt. And if we do
that, I believe we can be fully competitive with them, but it's not going
to be easy and it's not going to happen overnight. Yeah. And I feel like,
by the way, there is a shift and it's maybe only a few months old where the
mindset is changing to what you just talked about is we're past that
reaction phase of, oh my goodness, this task seems too daunting, the competition
too strong and so on. I feel like the shakana has worn off and we're now
rolling up our sleeves. We're doing the Rosie the Riveter thing. What can we
do? Where can we lead? Is it overall leadership? Is it specific areas? But
we're actually now, I think, in that mode of, all right, let's fix it. And as you
said, we've done it before. Well, you brought up Rosie the Riveter. So
here's another World War Two analogy. Back in the Second World War, Fisher
Body, which was one of the big divisions of General Motors at the time,
adopted the slogan, when the strong arm fails, think your way to victory. And
this ties in exactly what you're talking about right now. We have to think
our way to victory. Most on pure automotive, because I'll stick with
that, but also when it comes to this mobility, the Chinese are absolutely
leaders in mobility right now, not the United States of America. We're there,
but they're pulling ahead.
Yep. And I'm curious. Okay, so we talk about this transformation, this
revolution not happening in a vacuum, and it's not just China, right? There is
tremendous technological leadership still in Europe. And by the way, I caught
myself using the word, excuse me, Janine, still in Europe, right? Because the
the positions are changing. And I'm curious about how much of the future of
mobility is going to be coming from companies we've never even heard of
yet, or that maybe, you know, people in some specialized role have heard of, but
not in the general awareness.
Well, I think the companies that are going to be the leaders in mobility are
out there right now. It's just that they're small. They're still in a growth
phase. They still have not reached a critical mass. And I could not tell you
which of those are going to be the ones that emerge because I don't think
anybody knows that much well, how things are going to go in the future. But the
companies that are going to emerge as the leaders in these different forms of
mobility, I believe are pretty much largely in place.
Well, and I mean, we talked about this before too. When we first started this
work with the Global Epicenter Mobility, it was about how do we transition the
traditional automotive manufacturing into this advanced mobility space?
But what we're seeing is this advanced mobility is its own thing. It is
developing its own industry. There are new players that are in this space that
are more agile. Their leaner, their mindsets aren't set and established like
some of the older manufacturers may be, right? And so I think you're definitely
seeing this advantage that for anyone coming into the Detroit region, the
opportunities here are tremendous, right? And mind you, yeah, the older OEMs,
they're there, they're innovating. But I think they're really depending on some
of the new folks to do some of the innovation.
100% Jeanine, you can't rely on the legacies to be the leaders in this
revolution that's taking place. It's going to be the startups. That's how it
always happens. I will point out, however, even the legacies like GM and Ford
recognize this, you know, Ford created Skunkworks out in California to come
up with a radically different way of manufacturing cars to slash the cost of
making an EV. General Motors has set up its software and product development
also in California to get away from the mothership in the 100 years of legacy
procedures and specifications and get that new thinking. So even they
recognize they've got to change, it'll be fascinating to watch that. But as far
as the new mobility, that's going to be the startups, not the legacies.
That's right. And the new spaces of mobility, right? So we talked a lot
about this on our show, like it's really beyond just the traditional
automotive. There are so many new kind of technologies that are coming that will
move people in services and goods in a different kind of way than it has in the
past. Are there any that excite you? Well, you know, the whole VTOL thing, you
know, I call them drones. Don't talk to the VTOL manufacturers and call them
drones. They hate that. They call them vertical takeoff or landing. I think
that's going to be revolutionary. And it's right on our doorstep. It's
happening right now. We've seen things like last mile delivery kind of
approaches, whether it's, you know, electric scooters. I think there's even
going to be a lot of more interest in pedal vehicles, electric assist, you
know, e-bikes are all over the place. Absolutely. And I love my, thank God for
the e-bike. Exactly. And autonomy. We're going to have all kinds of autonomous
little, you know, we have already seen that in Ann Arbor. You know, Domino's was
experimenting. I think it was Domino's. I hope I got that right. I hope I got the
right piece of company there. But it was delivering with little autonomous
cars that would drive up and down the sidewalk. So this is what I talk about,
the revolution. It's going to free up people to do things that are far more
productive than just the menial things. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against the
menial things. We need people to be able to do that. But the new mobility is
going to change that. Here's one thing I want to add though. We need a strategy.
We need a strategy because this is not going to happen on its own in Detroit.
We need somebody out there, us included, pointing at here's where we can go. Here's
where the future can be. Paint a vision that gets the public on board, our
political leaders on board, our corporate leaders on board, and academia as well.
It's going to take that kind of critical mass to make it happen.
And that's a lot of the work that we do with the global epicenter mobility,
honestly. We've got 24 partners, each of them touching a little piece of that.
From our partners with the state of Michigan to University of Michigan and Wayne State,
and Lawrence Tech, and Techtown, and so forth. But you're absolutely right.
How are we all collectively going to kind of get behind something?
Very much like we did the automotive industry. And I think going back to what
Bernard said, yeah, okay, with China, really taking the leadership in some spaces.
But I think because there are so many different types of mobility,
I think Detroit has, the Detroit region has the ability to lead on all things
mobility. So not just EV and automotive, but what other opportunities and things can be
manufactured, frankly, with the assets that we have, and the research and development folks
that we have here. I mean, we have everything here to be able to be a leader of a broader industry.
Totally agree. And you hit on it, the manufacturing capability.
You know, within, I would say a 50 mile radius of where we're sitting right now,
you can make anything. Literally.
Anything. And I'm talking from microprocessors to parts for nuclear submarines, and of course,
all the automotive stuff and mobility stuff in between. But that is the trump card that we have
in this region. We know how to design, engineer, and manufacture things.
The benefit of the ecosystem, right, is it's every level of that going way back to the nuts
and bolts, frankly, them, you know, even the materials of themselves. But John, I'm curious,
you talk to a lot of companies, you know, and I'm curious about two things. One,
do you get the idea that the automakers specifically, but the suppliers as well,
are they more open, receptive to getting an entrepreneur, some small startup coming to them
and offering them what technology it is that they're selling or making?
Greater embrace. I haven't seen it any better than it's been in the past. No, I don't see that.
So that sounds like a domino that needs to fall if we're going to truly live up to this vision
of finding easier pathways for this innovation to enter the vehicle itself, right?
We keep talking about, hey, we have to get GM and Ford and Stellantis, you know,
more agile and more cutting edge and all that. I don't think we should rely on them
to be the leaders. I hear what you're saying. I think I come back to the true entrepreneurs,
those who are putting business plans together, going out and scraping up the money,
whether they're in New Lab or other places to do these things, that's where the future is.
And so I love the fact that you brought up New Lab. I love the fact that you guys are involved
in it. That's the future of this region. I don't think GM, Ford or Stellantis are going away.
I do believe they are going to shrink even more, but they're not the future. And God bless them.
You know, I'm not trying to trash them in any way, shape or form. They do a lot of good things,
but they're not growth companies. No, no, no. But how about their need for the latest technology?
You know, will they not be pulling more in externally than they traditionally have?
I hope they do. So, I mean, why are all these automotive companies investing in AI?
I mean, you know how to stamp weld steel and put motors or batteries in and sell these things
at dealers. You're not an AI expert. You know, it's like if you go back in the day to when
computer-aided design, computer-aided manufacturing came out, General Motors was heavily involved
in developing that. Well, maybe that made sense 40 years ago. It does not make sense today. Why
do they have to be battery manufacturers, for example, too? Do they really need all that?
I think what the legacy's really got to look at closely now is what is really core? What do they
truly have to control themselves? You read my mind. And the rush should come from startups or
other companies that specialize in those technologies. Because we've asked that question,
what makes an automaker, right? And, you know, you can have system integration and be the company
that puts it together as kind of an assembler, but it's amazing how often in the past that question
came down to, okay, I can buy seats and dashboards and wheels and suspension parts, but the core
thing is the powertrain, right? I'm going to be, you know, where that engine and transmission
came from, especially the engine. And what you just talked about, treads on dangerous ground,
because it's getting at the definition of how we previously used to think of what makes an
automaker. And when you say General Motors doesn't need to make a battery, they can get it from
somewhere else, you know, that could be incendiary talk in this town. Yeah, right. Well, Bernard,
you say the engine is the heart of it all. That used to be true.
That's what I mean. The point of the matter is, look, I'm a hardcore car enthusiast. You know,
I really built vehicles. I love driving. I race cars. I do everything with cars. Love them. But,
you know, that's not what the general public is interested in. 90% of the car buying public
has no clue what's under the hood. You know, go ask anybody, hey, how many gears are in that
transmission of yours? They'd have no clue. Is that why they bought the car? No. Most of them
don't even know what kind of engine is under the hood. They certainly don't know the display. So,
them days is gone. They are. The heartbeat of the car is the engine that that's over and done with.
So what you've really got to concentrate on is what's really core for an automaker. I would argue
there's only three things. You have to design the vehicle inside and out. You have to market
and sell the brand and you have to control the buyer experience. You can pretty much outsource
everything else. That's fascinating. I can tell you've put some thought into this. Oh, look, I've
learned this over the years. I put my own thought into it, but I've learned from the real experts
to what do you really have to do? And I think we see that energy from folks that are coming here
to Detroit, right? They're not coming here thinking there's really no opportunity for me here,
right? I think they're coming here understanding that that's what's going to need to happen, right?
And I talked to a guy from Utah, you know, that was coming to Detroit because they know the
opportunities here. They understand that the innovation mindset and the changes that need
to happen in this industry mean that there will be a space for them, right? As these OEMs and the
legacy look to outsource, right? To do things differently, to do things in a more agile way
than they have in the past. No, I love what you're saying and especially when they come from overseas,
not just from elsewhere in the country. I love talking to people and asking them the question,
why'd you come to Detroit? And it's exactly what you're talking about there. They're going,
I could do without the bitter cold in January and February, but in the summer it's beautiful here,
it's idyllic. But I love talking to people from outside of the Detroit region and asking them
where they came here because they're bullish. They see the future. They're not locked into
this 100-year-old mindset of, you know, we got to go back to VA-powered, you know, big automobiles.
They're mining gold in Detroit. You know what I'm saying? Like in terms of the mentality
that he'll go west, young man mentality is, you know, come to Detroit, young man, young woman.
Go Midwest. Yeah, come to this area, this region because they do see the opportunity here. Listen,
I remember talking to a guy from China who came here and he says, you know, I look at a plant
that's, you know, shuttered and padlocked and all the Americans are going, oh, we lost another one
and I'm looking at it. The Chinese guy told me and I'm going, wow, what an opportunity. We can open
this place up and make all kinds of things. Yep, it is a different mindset and I feel
you're totally right about, it's very healthy to have that exterior kind of presence coming in to
kind of refresh what we do. Yep. No, and John, I'm curious about what have you seen, right? Because
I could tell you're bullish, you're optimistic, but when you talk to these companies, you know,
can you give an example of something that you would call out as just to highlight something
that really encapsulates the fact that this industry, this region is doing what it needs to
to compete globally? There's a lot of disparate things that are happening. I can't say that I see
an overall strategy. I can't say that I see a critical mass that that's going to drive it forward.
I see a lot of individual efforts. That's exactly what I'm getting at. And, you know, amongst
different companies. Yeah, is there a highlight you'd like to call attention to? No, I don't think
we're at that stage yet. I think we need more strategy, more thinking about what are we going
to do? And it's pretty clear that we cannot rely on government subsidies to get this done. We're
going to have to unleash the free market to make this happen. There's so much capital sitting on
the sidelines now looking for an opportunity to invest that we got to be able to tap into that.
You know, that's one of the reasons why Silicon Valley is as strong as it is. It's got to call
the venture capital people there. We've heard that quite a bit of people with
fantastic ideas, but a lack of access to capital. And I feel like there are plenty of signs that
Detroit's getting better at doing that. No question. We are getting better. But when you ask me,
is there one shining example there? I don't think we're there yet. I think there's more work to do.
Well, and that also means there's more opportunity here, right? I mean, meaning it's not done yet.
Like we are emerging. There is so much opportunity to continue to come here to make that one big,
shiny example of something. We haven't hit it yet, but we're really close. Right. No, we're
getting there for sure. And there's a lot of things going on in the Detroit area, technologically
speaking, that most people are completely unaware of, including myself. But, you know, I'll give you
an example where my studio is just down the road from it is this startup company that's working on
sdvs, you know, software defined batteries. So you can do all and it's it's cutting edge stuff.
There is another company that's just a couple of miles from my studio that's working on carbon
capture for locomotives. Who knows about this stuff? Nobody knows about this stuff. And those are
just two examples that are replicated thousands of times in the Detroit area. I just wish that we
could give some shine a spotlight on all these things, because I think people in this region
would be blown away when they see all this R&D that's going on that they have no clue of. Right,
right. And frankly, our hope is over time to give, you know, time at this table to some of those
companies to do exactly what you're talking about, because absolutely, it does not get enough attention
in this region. I know we've got to wrap up. We could talk to you for hours. I love your
insight and your enthusiasm for this work. And so we invite you to come back to our mobility table.
Absolutely. And the next, you know, we'll still be here. I'm talking about the amazing things
that are happening in our region. So thank you for lending your expertise and your time with
us this morning. We'll be watching your podcast as well. And we hope that you will
tune in to us as well. Oh, yes, I will. And thanks for the opportunity, because, you know,
what we're doing here, harkens back to what I was just talking about, giving voice to what's
going on in the Detroit area. That's all positive and growth oriented. 100%. So, John, it's been
a pleasure as always. Thank you for joining us for the mobility table. Our guest has been John
McElroy, the host of AutoLine. We will see you next time.
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