Used car prices going up fast means the same used cars cost a lot more than they used to. That can make it harder to find a good deal and can change what your trade-in is worth.
CarEdge.com helps you buy a car by working with dealerships for you. Instead of you doing all the back-and-forth, they try to line up offers so you can get a better deal with less hassle.
A car buying service is like a middleman that helps you find and negotiate a car deal. You tell them what you want, and they work with dealers so you don’t have to do all the negotiating yourself.
The Hyundai Elantra is a popular compact car. Here it’s mentioned as an example of a deal where the total “out-the-door” price came back lower than before.
A clean title means the car’s paperwork doesn’t show major damage history. Cars with clean titles usually cost more because they’re considered lower risk.
CPO means the dealer (or manufacturer) certified the used car after an inspection. It often includes extra warranty coverage, so it costs more than a regular used car.
Full-size trucks are the big pickups people buy for work or towing. When the market gets expensive, these trucks often get hit hardest because lots of people want them.
The “asking price” is what a seller lists the vehicle for before negotiation. The host contrasts asking prices against MSRP to demonstrate that sellers are holding firm even when the car is no longer new.
Miles matter because they affect wear and tear. They’re pointing out the car doesn’t have many miles, yet the price is still surprisingly high.
Term
SI
“Si” is Honda’s sport trim designation for the Civic, typically positioned below the Type R but above the standard models. The host mentions “this is an SI” to explain why demand (and therefore used pricing) can be higher than a regular Civic.
A dealer markup is extra money the dealership adds to the price. Sometimes they also add extra stuff you didn’t ask for, and that makes the final price jump.
Black Book is a company that helps estimate car values using market data. They’re using it to show that truck prices are rising faster than other vehicles.
Gasoline prices affect demand for different vehicle types, especially fuel-intensive categories like full-size trucks. The speaker argues that even as gas gets more expensive, dealers still see strong pricing power in those segments.
“Day one” depreciation is the immediate value drop that happens right after a new car is purchased and driven off the lot. The host claims the Big Horn “loses 40% day one,” highlighting how buyers often expect a steep first-year hit—though the market can change that outcome.
“Depreciate very little” means the vehicle’s value drops slowly over time. In used-car pricing discussions, slow depreciation is a sign of strong demand and limited supply of desirable configurations.
A “project car” is a vehicle bought with the intention of repairing, restoring, or modifying it over time. The speaker notes that some Wrangler buyers like the challenge of rebuilding older vehicles, which can keep demand alive even for cars that need major work.
Detailing is a deep cleaning to make the car look nicer. It can help your trade-in offer a little, but it won’t outweigh bigger issues like warning lights.
Carvana is another big used-car company that buys cars from you and sells them online. The point is that these companies can offer competitive prices when the market is hot.
OTD means “out-the-door price.” It’s the total amount you pay to actually get the car, not just the base price. It usually includes things like taxes and required fees.
LIVE
It's noon here in Vector City, New Jersey, and our nation's capital, Washington, D.C.
And this is Courage Live for the last day of March, March 31st with your hosts, me, Ray,
here in Vector City, and Zach. I got curls in Washington, D.C. How are you today, handsome?
I'm doing well, Pop. Six-Lated to be here with you. The auto industry and car shoppers are shocked
because used car prices are skyrocketing. Dad, let's jump right into it. Today's show is brought
to you by CarEdge.com. For those of you that are unfamiliar for the past, what is it now that's
six years? A little over six years. We've been offering a car buying service back at CarEdge.com.
We will reach out to dealers for you and even negotiate. We learn what matters to you. Contact
dealers, compare real offers, and help you get the best deal without the stress. Now,
one new thing we have over on CarEdge.com slash beta, this is the new car search
that we've been working on, and we appreciate and seek out your input. Dad, we added a live page
to the CarEdge.com beta website. This page updates in real time. Wow, this is so cool.
We just got an OTT back for a Hyundai Elantra that has $1,412 price lower than the prior OTT price.
This page updates every eight seconds with all of the communications going on that CarEdge is
doing with dealers on customer behalf. This is so cool, man. You can see a dealer just responded
on a Cadillac OPTIQ. We've got a dealer responding on a Ram 1500, another one on a Ram 1500. This
page is so cool, man. Please, everyone, check it out, CarEdge.com slash beta, and then click on
live. All right, you ready, Dad? I am so taken aback by the technological advances
in beta. I can't wait till we get the VHS and see what happens. We might take over the world.
Okay, I'll be good now. Let's make our way over to this week's Black Book Market Insights. First
things first, folks, we are going to jump all the way down to our favorite chart, which is this one,
Wholesale Weekly Price Index. Guys, the price of used cars continues to skyrocket significantly
earlier in the year than any prior year we have access to data on. So, Dad, let's start here.
Prices continue to rise this week. It is broken out by types of vehicles, however. For example,
full-size sedans, for some reason, are seeing a huge spike in prices. But let's start here,
perhaps another week of these car prices increase. Yes, it is a historically significant change
over what we've seen in the past. Even though wholesale prices moderated to some degree this
past week, they are still higher than they had been. It appears as if, since the beginning of the
year, that this is not an anomaly. This appears to be the trend that we perhaps might see for,
I'm guessing, at least the first half of the year, if not maybe a little more.
Indicates to me that used car values are going to continue to go up. Obviously,
two to six-year-old used car values are probably going to go up the most. But even older used cars,
eight to 16-year-old used cars, are seeing price increases. So, those who are searching for truly
the less expensive units, $15,000, $10,000, and below, your money is just not going to go
quite as far as it used to. When you're in the $5,000 to $10,000 price range, you're really
probably going to have to settle for some really bad vehicles at a higher price, unfortunately.
Dad, I told up a few examples of brand new used car listings so that we could just take a peek
here at what this is translating to and what this means for retail used car prices. So,
I've got a couple examples. And again, these are brand new listings. These cars just went up for
sale on dealer websites today. Okay. Got a 2024 Toyota Tundra SR. Dad, this vehicle has 29,000
miles on it. One owner, clean title, literally just got listed today. The dealer's asking $52,000.
Seems a bit much, doesn't it? I mean, that's rich, man. That's really, really,
really rich. $52,000. And this dealer, let's see, Henning Automotive Holdings Group. This is in
Washington State, Dad. 52 grand for a used with 29,000 miles Toyota pickup truck. That seems nuts to
me. I cannot disagree with that. Seems like a lot of money, but it is a Toyota.
There's another Toyota example, this one in the state of New Jersey. Again, this one just got
listed today, 2023. Again, 29,000 miles. Look at that, $42,499 is what this dealer is asking.
And again, just got listed today. I've got another example for you, Dad.
2024 Chevrolet Silverado 1500. Very low mileage CPO vehicle, but we're asking $46,5 on it. So,
these use car prices, and we're looking at full-size trucks right there. Those are insanely high.
They have not depreciated much, even though... Well, that last one, if I were to guess,
and I didn't get a chance to look at it, but that's a Chevrolet dealer, is it not?
And my guess is that is literally a brand new 2024. And the dealer decided, we haven't been able
to sell it as a new car. Let's move it to our used car inventory and see if we can bring somebody in
for as an extremely low mileage used car. You know, I used to work at a
mini dealership. We did that often. We would just move sitting new cars into used car inventory.
Of course, you know, we would ultimately reduce the price to some degree in order to encourage
somebody to buy it. But yeah, I would believe that pickup truck was a brand new, that they just
moved to their used car inventory. All right. Let's continue to play this game for a second here,
and then we'll run through some more of the data. Now, Dad, one of the... Actually,
I will queue this up with the data. One of the categories of vehicle that we're seeing the biggest
increase in price would be full-size cars, okay? Yeah, which I don't get, but somebody can try
and explain that to me someday. Now, Dad, I've got a full-size car queued up for this. Now,
this is a specialty full-size car, but still it's indicative of how crazy the used car market is
right now. I want you to guess what you think the asking price is for this used vehicle. We'll
queue up a few more of these as well. You ready? Yes. 2023 Dodge Charger Scat Pack. Original MSRP
somewhere around, let's call it $57,000, $58,000. This vehicle, Dad, that I'm going to show you
I'm making the assertment here that this is a full-size sedan. It's obviously a specialty vehicle,
but there you go, Dad. I'm going to zoom in on it. You're asking more than original MSRP.
Well, is that because it's got the big hemi engine in it? I mean, exactly, but still this is
indicative of how crazy things are. Here's another example for you. I'll pull up in a second. 2025
Honda Civic Si. All right, we've got 11,891 miles on it. What do you think this is going for as
a used car? $2,999. A little higher? $3,499. We're getting closer. Now, the original MSRP on this
vehicle is around $31,000. You ready? Yeah. Well, $2,299. There's some just craziness. Again,
some of these, this is an SI. That was a scat pack, so you take it with a grain of salt,
but there's some craziness going on in the used car market.
It indicates that any of the younger lower-type mileage used cars out there are going to go for
a premium. Why? Because the dealers have to pay a premium to get them if they're going to buy them
at the auctions. If they're going to pay a premium, well, they're going to ask their customers to
pay a premium. It doesn't help that the prices for new comparable new cars are exorbitantly
high to begin with. Even though a Honda Civic Si might be around $32,000 new,
if they're in relatively short supply, the Honda dealer is going to add an additional
dealer markup, going to add all their dealer-installed nonsense, and that $32,000 car will
suddenly become a $40,000 car. A fully-optioned out that, a fully-optioned out 2024 Ford F-150
XLT MSRP is going to be max about $55,000. Now, imagine you're a dealer and you have one for
sale that has 6,771 miles on it. You took it in as a trade and you're in Georgia. How do you
going to price this thing online? Brand new listing. What do you price in this thing?
Well, the way things are going, probably 60 grand.
$53,999. To your point earlier, low mileage, high-quality used cars. It doesn't matter if it's
a full-size truck, a specialty, more specialty vehicle like that. Scott packed the Si. This
is a Ford F-150 XLT priced at pretty much original MSRP because it's got only 6,700 miles on it.
Does it matter? It's still used. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But this is such a rare vehicle in
today's market and I agree with orange rubber ducky. No XLT should be $50,000 plus. I completely
agree. But this is the reality of the used car market today. It's the world we live in.
According to Blackbook data, full-size pickup trucks once again appreciated in value last week
faster than other trucks, which we just crossed the Rubicon nationally
for $4 a gallon gasoline. On a national average, it's over $4 a gallon now.
It's just hard for me to fathom that as gasoline prices continue to go up,
that dealers see an opportunity in full-size sedans and full-size pickup trucks,
and that opportunity requires them to pay more for those vehicles than what they had been.
I don't know how the mind works to say, okay, as gas crosses $4 a gallon,
that should make a poor gas mileage full-size pickup truck worth more to somebody. When I would think
it would make it worth less to somebody, especially if somebody is considering
their fuel costs on a monthly basis, it's more difficult for somebody that has a full-size pickup.
I see that some of these numbers, and I can't grasp in my weak little mind why.
What's the rationale behind it? I got one more for you. You ready?
I'm not sure I can handle one more. You're in the beautiful, beautiful, beautiful state
of Tennessee. You're in Chattanooga. You are the proud possessor of a 2022 Toyota four-runner
limited, original MSRP on this thing somewhere around $50,000. This vehicle's got 24,802 miles on
it. Was it a 2022? What are you pricing this thing at, Dad? That's way low miles.
What are you pricing, Dad? Oh my God, with those miles, $44.9.
This is the unfortunate reality. Oh my God.
$51,625. Now, this is an especially interesting example because what I'm going to do here is
scroll all the way down to the price history chart. Look at this price history from this dealer, Dad.
They just recently increased the price by $1,900 on their advertised listing.
Well, that's sure to get more people in. No, but I think it demonstrates the pricing power
that these dealers now have. Or they think they have.
They think they have. But, Dad, I mean, they have it. For the price that it's going to cost at the
auction to go buy one of these is probably even higher. That is a ridiculous example
of pure unadulterated greed. I don't know how long they've had the vehicle.
I do. One second. But let's turn it and turn it into cash and buy something that we can sell
quickly. Well, this is a new listing. Yeah, it's a new listing. We're picking up the prior listing
price history as well. That's some of the advancements we have now with Carriage. This
dealer just listed it at $1,900 over what it was previously listed.
Who knows what they might have had to pay for if they bought it at the auction,
or if they bought it from the dealer that had it and was looking to sell it because it was
an aged unit. I mean, a lot of what goes on in dealerships is when dealership A has aged
used car inventory, they call their friends a dealership B to see what used inventory they
may have, and then they agree to swap out and both overpay for the used car inventory that
they're replacing. The most amazing thing happens in a lot of those cases is simply because
the vehicle is now at a different location, it sells where it had aged out at the original
location. That could be the case on that particular vehicle. Whoever drives by or lives in that area
where the new dealer is has never seen that vehicle before, had no idea it was advertised
for $1,900 less, and then somebody could very well walk in and go, I like that, I'll take it.
I like it enough, I'll take it. Yeah, I think you're spot on. I see some comments that people
saying, hey, this doesn't make sense for Toyota because a lot of people like the previous generation.
Toyota products are a bad example because people are avoiding the newer Toyota's.
I'll do one more example. You ready for this? Sure.
Total opposite brand, all right? Same model year, 2022. That you own a dealership, all right?
You just took in on trade a 2022 Ram 1500 pickup, Big Horn Lone Star. This thing's got 31,335 miles
on it, okay? Roll miles for the year, yeah. An original NSRP of this vehicle, somewhere around
$45-ish, $1,000, okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you price into that? Again,
this is a four-year-old, four-model year-old 2022 with 31,000 miles on it. What do you price
into that? Oh, it's probably $4,200. All right, we finally, finally are coming in below
where Pops was, $36,702. That's still not a lot of depreciation over 31,000 miles over four years
for a brand that is the antithesis of Toyota, a brand that definitely, you know, and here you go.
Big Horn loses 40% day one. It should.
Nearly not. Apparently not.
Yeah, wow. I mean, the pricing that we are seeing, and let me say this from having
done this for as many years as I did 40-some years on the retail side of things.
The dealers don't set the price. The market sets the price. What do I mean by that?
Dealer can ask $36,702. The market in his area might say,
that's a $32,000 pickup truck, and ultimately the dealer might sell it for that, or it could be a
case of it really is a $32,000 pickup truck, but the market, there are enough people in that
market area that would agree with the dealer that that's a relative bargain at $36,702.
So it's not the dealers that set the price. Oh, they can ask, but it's the market that determines
what the ultimate price really is. And we are still at a point in time where shoppers
are way overspending for the used vehicles that they're buying because there's not enough
competition out there to bring the prices down. There's that fundamental fear of missing out.
Well, if I pass on this, perhaps the next one in this price point will have 45,000 miles on it.
So it is a situation where customers are, their impatience is causing the prices to be higher.
And they're gladly doing it, apparently. Yeah, yeah, Dan says it's FOMO at its best.
I also think to be clear here, it is partly because if you were looking at buying a new
version of many of these vehicles, it's so out of whack and out so far away from what is reality
of what most of us can afford that we then have to look towards the used vehicles instead.
One final note here on used car prices, it's not just Blackbook demonstrating this trend.
I want to pull this up. This is from Mannheim, which is Cox Automotive 105.6. That is the
current percent that the Mannheim Market Report Index is tracking so far this year.
Essentially, this is the same exact visualization as Blackbooks, except it looks at just Mannheim's
data. So it's this chart that Blackbook shows going up into the right, unlike any other year
prior. It's the same exact chart here over at Cox Automotive and Mannheim. So no matter where you
look, dad, used car prices are skyrocketing. Now, to be clear, this is what we anticipate this time
here. The unfortunate reality is it's happening earlier and it's faster than we've seen in the
past. It's kind of sort of in a strange way reminds me. There's something going on in this country
in retail where whatever holiday or whatever it is that's coming up, we start preparing for it
earlier. So what do I mean by that? What we know in March, it's the official beginning of the spring
selling season in the automotive retail sector. And perhaps what we're seeing is dealers are starting
to prepare themselves and bidding the wholesale values up on these vehicles the first week in
January instead of waiting till the third week in February. Kind of sort of like in many cases,
you get to the beginning of October and you start seeing the Christmas sale stuff that's still two
and a half months away. So there's this sudden fascination that even though we normally have
things happen at a certain time frame, well, we've decided we need to expand that time frame.
When I was at the mini store and every year in May, it would be, well, what are we going to do
for Memorial Day? And I came up with the idea, why does it have to be Memorial Day? Why can't it be
Memorial May? And so instead of waiting till the end of the month to have our big promotion,
to have our cookouts and our free hot dogs hamburgers and sodas, let's just start on May
first and just call the whole damn thing Memorial May. And so I was as guilty of this
as anyone. Why settle for a weekend at the end of the month? Well, we can do it for the whole damn
month. And so I think to a certain degree, that's what we're seeing playing out here.
Yeah, I think you're spot on, Dad. I really, really do. And I think the FOMO is driving it
a bit as well. Let's come here to the top from Scott. Thank you for this, Scott. Hang on. Going to
defend the precious generation Toyota and their prices, its reliability. Yeah, I agree. We can make
the outlier argument for Toyota use our prices, but then when you look at that RAM, or I have
another one here, a Jeep Wrangler we didn't even talk about. That's like, what? This thing has
the only depreciated a couple thousand bucks over four years. Yeah, but it's a Jeep Wrangler, and
there is this unbelievably strong niche market, a cult like following for Jeep Wranglers, so they
depreciate very little in comparison to other vehicles out there. I've seen really older ones
still go for a poop ton that needs to be completely redone, but those people,
there are people out there that A, love the challenge of doing that, and B, just in on the
whole thing, let's go. Let's make it happen. I don't care that it's 20 years old and beat the crap.
Dad, let's come here from Claudia. I need advice. Perfect. That's what my dad's here for. I once
traded my Honda Pilot from 2015. The tire pressure sensor light came on. I forgot to
purchase a vehicle because it's on its last leg. Should I repair that before I do the trade-in?
This is a good conversation to have, Dad. Well, okay. Did it come on? What did it say? Did it tell
you which tire is low on the air pressure? The tire pressure sensors came on on my Mazda.
They kept saying after I'd put air in the tires, they kept saying that the left front tire was
low. It turned out there was a screw in the tire. Okay. For $38, I had the screw remove, a patch
put in, tire rematter, and we're good to go. It could be as simple as that on your Honda Pilot,
or it could be that the monitor needs to be replaced.
But Dad, I think macro, big picture question. Should you do work like this before trading in a car?
No. Don't fix it. If it's a Honda Pilot, the dealer is still going to probably pay more
for it than they should because it's a Honda Pilot. It's an eight-passenger, three-row SUV,
and it's a Honda. Even though the tire pressure sensor light might be on, not a big deal.
Is that just for Hondas, or is that more broadly for if you're going to trade in a car,
do you need to do work before you trade it in to get the best price?
Well, people used to say to me, well, should I detail my car before I bring it in?
You could. I'm going to end up detailing it anyway, so what the hell difference does it make?
But yeah, if the car looks clean, it's worth a few dollars more. If there isn't a check engine
light on, it's worth more than if the check engine light is on. But I think a dealer would
look at a tire pressure monitor system, and it's probably nothing. Or it'll be relatively
inexpensive to take care of if you need to. So it just depends. I mean, it's an 11-year-old car.
I'm trying to break out of just that specific one to more generalized advice about it.
If you're looking to trade in a 10, 12-year-old car, the dealer isn't really expecting it to be
pristine. You know, they're not necessarily expecting that this 12-year-old car is going to
have 30,000 miles on it and it's been garage kept and was only driven to church on Sunday
by a nice old lady. They don't expect that. They expect it to look like a used 12-year-old car.
Okay? So if it's a major thing, like it doesn't run, okay, you're not going to get a lot for it.
If it's a minor thing, like the tire pressure monitor is on,
you know, the dealer is not thinking on itself, well, that's a $2,000 expense.
For sure. Yeah, let's come here from Jenny. Thanks to this Jenny. CarMax will buy my 2019 Subaru WRX
STi for $2,000 less than I paid for it seven years ago. Low mileage cars, so there's that. But
still, nuts. Dad, this reminds me a little bit of when used car prices spiked. What was it?
Five years ago, four years ago. Five years ago, yeah. This is nuts.
Yeah. So let's just say that you've had the opportunity to drive that car for seven years
and forgetting whatever maintenance and fuel costs you've had over those seven years.
It has only lost $2,000 in its value. Yeah, that's absolutely asinine. And you know,
if you're okay to get rid of it, think of it in those terms and it's cost you next to nothing
to drive that for seven years. That's awesome. Yeah. It is a specialty vehicle as well, and
that's something you have to realize. That's not going to be the case for every vehicle out there.
For sure. But it's still indicative of there's a lot of demand and not a lot of supply for some
of these cars. Low mileage specialty, the fact that you could own a vehicle for seven years and
only incur $2,000 in depreciation. And last time I checked, that was just the CarMax offer. It's
not like you called up your local Subaru dealership and said, hey, I'm thinking about selling my
Subaru. Would you offer me more than CarMax? Odds are they probably would. Or Carvana.
I believe we have a new program, don't we? Yeah, dealers can fit on your car. You add it to your
garage back on caredge.com only in the data right now. But yes, I mean, seriously, you can drive
a car for seven years and not experience any depreciation. That's pretty good. That doesn't
happen very often. No, it doesn't. All right. If you're in the market for a used car or a new
car or just want to check out our products and services, go check out caredge.com. For those
of you that are unfamiliar, me, my dad and our incredible team for the past six years have been
offering a car buying service. So we'll do the research, contact dealers, and even negotiate.
We learn what matters to you contact dealers, compare real offers, and help you get the best
deal without stress. I shared it earlier and I'll share it again over in beta, caredge.com
slash beta. We have a new car search. We're seeking out your feedback and input. And also in
the beta, we added this live page. So you can literally come here and live see what's happening.
So dealers are responding to caredge customers. You can see which dealers are responding. You can
see that we have a negotiation going on. We can see we just got an OTD offer received on a 2017
Dodge Charger here. So, so cool. We contacted some dealers about vehicles. We received an
OTD on a Porsche Taycan. This page is pretty cool, man. It shows you live. Just contact another
dealer about a vehicle. This page shows you live what we're doing, which I think is so, so...
No, that's way cool. That really is, yeah.
It really is. Anyway, we'll be back with more caredge live tomorrow. So dad, please, you know,
be here for that. And if you like the new show, subscribe to the channel, share it with a friend,
and you know, we'll do this Monday through Friday. So we'll be back again soon.
Well, yes. It's about about 23 and a half hours.
23 and a half hours. Yeah, we'll see you again.
Enjoy the afternoon, pups. You too. Love you.
If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe.
It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.
About this episode
Wholesale and retail used car prices are rising faster than in prior years, with Black Book and Cox/Mannheim data showing a clear “up and to the right” trend starting earlier in the year. The hosts break down why low-mileage, newer-model used vehicles—especially full-size trucks and sedans—are commanding premiums, often exceeding original MSRP. They also discuss FOMO, high new-car pricing, dealer auction costs, and how limited competition keeps prices elevated. A trade-in Q&A covers whether to fix minor warning lights before selling, plus a surprising CarMax WRX STi depreciation story.
Today on CarEdge Live, Ray and Zach discuss the latest used car market update. Tune in to learn more! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com
for information about our collection and use of personal data for
advertising.
