AWD Is Dumb, The Cayman Catastrophe, Should You Bother About What’s Next? | Episode 1,029
Everyday Driver Car Debate
AWD Is Dumb, The Cayman Catastrophe, Should You Bother About What’s Next? | Episode 1,029
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112:54
Car
Ford Mustang GTD
Concept
VIR
VIR stands for Virginia International Raceway, which is a famous racetrack in Virginia. It's a place where cars are tested and raced.
Concept
Sebring
Sebring is a well-known racetrack in Florida where cars race for long periods. It's a tough track that shows how good a car and driver are.
Part
5.2 liter V8
The 5.2 liter V8 is a type of engine that is very powerful and is used in some fast cars like the Mustang. It helps the car go really fast.
Term
pricing
Pricing is how much a car costs. In this case, the car being talked about can cost anywhere from $70,000 to $300,000, depending on its features.
Car
Ford Mustang
The Ford Mustang is a popular sports car in the U.S. It's known for being powerful and fun to drive, especially on a racetrack.
Term
aerodynamics
Aerodynamics is about how air moves around a car. Good aerodynamics can help a car go faster and handle better, especially on a racetrack.
Part
carbon fiber wing
A carbon fiber wing is a part on the back of a car that helps it stay stable when going fast. It's made from a strong but light material called carbon fiber.
Car
Honda Passport
The Honda Passport is a type of SUV that can carry a lot of people and gear. It's good for driving in different conditions, including off-road.
Term
EV
An EV is a car that runs on electricity instead of gas. This means it doesn't produce exhaust fumes, making it better for the environment.
Car
Toyota RAV4
The Toyota RAV4 is another type of SUV that is popular for its size and ability to carry people and things. It's also good for driving in different weather.
Car
Honda That Honda
Car
Chevrolet Corvette
The Chevrolet Corvette ZR1X is a special version of the Corvette sports car. It's designed to be very fast and has features that help it perform well on the racetrack.
Term
0-60 time
0-60 time is how long it takes a car to go from a stop to 60 miles per hour. It's often used to show how fast a car can speed up.
Term
quarter mile
The quarter mile is a distance of 1,320 feet, and it's commonly used in racing to see how fast a car can go from a standstill. If a car can complete this distance in under 10 seconds, it's considered really fast.
Term
all-wheel drive
All-wheel drive means that power goes to all four wheels of the car, which helps it grip the road better, especially in bad weather or during fast driving.
Car
Mercury Sperling
The Mercury Sperling is an electric car that was made in the 1990s. It had a unique look but wasn't very fun to drive, which is why it didn't become popular.
Brand
Bugatti
Bugatti is a famous car brand that makes very fast and expensive cars, like the Chiron.
Company
McMurtry
McMurtry is a car company that makes electric cars, like the Speirling, which are designed to be very fast and efficient.
Term
decibel
Decibels measure how loud a sound is. For example, 120 decibels is very loud, like the noise from a concert.
Car
Lucid Air Sapphire
The Lucid Air Sapphire is a fancy electric car that is designed to be very fast and luxurious. It's one of the top models from Lucid Motors.
Car
Lucid Air
Car
Dodge Demon
The Dodge Demon is a powerful version of the Dodge Challenger sports car, made for racing. It's built to be very fast and is known for its strong engine and special features that help it go quickly on a racetrack.
Term
power distribution
Power distribution is how the car's engine power is sent to the wheels. It helps the car grip the road better, especially in different driving conditions.
Term
automatic transmission
An automatic transmission makes it easier to drive because it changes gears for you, so you don't have to do it yourself like in a manual car.
Term
torque
Torque is like the strength that helps a car move forward. More torque means the car can speed up faster, especially from a stop.
Term
2.5-liter turbo
A 2.5-liter turbo engine is a type of car engine that is 2.5 liters in size and uses a turbo to make it more powerful, helping the car go faster without being bigger.
Term
traction control system
Traction control is a system in cars that helps keep the wheels from spinning too fast when you accelerate, especially on slippery roads. It makes driving safer by helping the car grip the road better.
Term
traction and stability control
Traction control stops the wheels from spinning too much when you accelerate, and stability control helps keep the car steady if it starts to slide.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and stronger the car can go.
Car
Porsche 911
Car
Lotus Elise
Car
Audi Quattro
Car
Nissan Gtr
Car
Hyundai Kona
Car
Subaru Outback
Car
Ferrari Ff
Car
Porsche Cayman
Car
Ferrari F430
Car
Lotus Amira
Car
BMW M5
Car
Porsche Boxster
Car
Porsche 914
Car
Mazda Miatas
Car
Porsche 356
Car
BMW Z3
Car
BMW E30
Car
BMW M3
Car
Toyota Prius
Car
Mini Countryman
Car
BMW New Bmws
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Welcome back, everybody.
Happy Tuesday.
Yet again, we are back with yet another podcast of everything.
There's actually a lot of news up front.
Yeah, there is.
Two very similar car debates, frighteningly similar from two different people,
two different emails wrote in and we went, really?
The similarities.
It's shocking.
So there's that good actual topic Tuesday in front of that that gets me down the road into tires,
which is just my little side thing.
So we're doing that.
We're talking about that.
Your questions, lots of stuff.
So let's dive right in.
We've got news up front from Ford who has announced the 2026 Dark Horse SC that was
announced just yesterday as of this recording.
It has the V8 from the Mustang GTD.
I'm wondering if Ford has decided that the GTD is not for everybody.
And maybe more people want a piece of the GTD.
They have to know that.
And so they invented a new Dark Horse version and have tested it apparently at Sebring and VIR
so that it uses the GTD engine, that 5.2 liter V8.
They have not announced horsepower.
They said it's somewhere between 500 and 815.
Which means it's somewhere between the standard Dark Horse that you buy and the GTD.
That's nice.
Of course it is.
Of course it is.
Powerful, fast, and I'm guessing probably way about the same as the GTD.
I hate to say it.
It's just a heavy car.
I don't know that they've solved the way.
It's a 4,000 pound car.
But what I do like is the styling is better than the GTD.
I think the front clip, the front end on this car looks actually better than the GTD.
The GTD is of course bewinged.
It's its own animal.
And bearrowed and everything that needs to happen.
But it has GT3 derived components.
And the pricing is somewhere between $70,000 and $300,000.
Guys, we made a car between the two cars we make.
The power is going to be between the two cars we make.
And the price is going to be between the two cars we make.
Stay tuned.
Watch this space for more.
Yeah.
Apparently this is really for people who will genuinely track their Mustang.
Even though I think there's a lot of people who already do.
Sure, yeah.
Aerodynamics was a big factor in the development of this car.
So much so that the GTD engineers learned some things on the aero testing.
It's my understanding.
And here it is shown on track.
It actually looks quite good.
I just keep thinking this is a big, heavy car.
But I do want us to drive it.
I agree.
I keep trying to temper my, I think it's too heavy kinds of thinking with when I drive it.
Will I care?
Will you care?
Will anybody care?
Fair, fair.
It also has got, yeah, there's the carbon fiber wing in the back.
So a little bit different than even the GT3 version of it or the GTD and carbon wheels.
Look at these babies.
Oh, do not curb those.
Yeah.
Those look expensive.
Wow.
But gives you a little bit of weight savings right there.
Yeah, sure.
I suppose.
And the corners where it matters.
I get it.
Yeah.
Moving on to Honda who has revealed their base station travel trailer.
Now this particular launch event was what brought us to the LA Auto Show.
And thanks to Honda, they did pay our way to the LA Auto Show in particularly for this
press reveal.
And now we can talk about it.
They had us to their Honda America's design studio.
They're, they're building right there in Torrance, California.
And we were among many journalists who showed up.
You can see everybody kind of standing in the background to show off their base
station prototype, which means Honda being the purveyors of all this different forms
of transportation.
They, they really dig that.
Oh yeah.
For sure.
And exploring all kinds of different forms.
They, and they love making a big deal about how broad they are.
Yes.
It's not like, it's not like we do cars, we do cars, by the way, there's other stuff,
but we do cars.
No, it's like, look at everything we do.
Don't you want one of our cars?
That's really how they play it.
You know, we were told that nobody in the trailer industry has really brought
car design thinking or really in particular design thinking, industrial design thinking
to this market.
And in some sense, I have to agree just simply because the materials for most travel
trailers are just sides.
They're just boxes.
It's barely walls.
And yeah.
Watch, watch any time that Top Gear raced caravans or RVs and crashed them into
each other, you see how flimsy and thin they are.
And here's the other crazy thing while you're bringing it up.
This is why to this day, the most stylish trailers on the planet are
Airstreams from the 60s because nobody bothered after that.
They were just like, well, that's done.
So let's just make a box.
And you could always play the game on those diesel pushers, headlights and taillights.
The fun game is to figure out which car and truck those headlights and taillights
came off of.
And I've seen they're so huge.
They'll double stack and invert.
They'll flip the taillights.
So it's a double stack.
Like that looks weird because it's so expensive to make custom headlights,
taillights.
So here is this travel trailer, the base station prototype.
It follows Honda's signature man maximum machine minimum kind of
thinking designed to fit into a garage space, a standard space where
you would park your car inside, of course, towed behind a passport here
or a RAV4 or an EV.
But they said, any Honda product is where we think you should tow it behind.
So in the studio, they actually showed it.
They displayed it right here, hooked up to the the passport.
And the accessories include an air conditioner, an external shower,
an external kitchen with running water and induction cooking.
So you can see on this side of the travel trailer
is where you would plug those accessories into the side of the trailer.
And then just a quick glimpse into the back.
It's pretty basic.
So you could store other vehicle bikes and motorcycles
and whatever you've got to got with you on the on the camera.
Your adventure gear.
I mean, here's the reality of what they've done.
You know what this actually guitar hangs here?
Beanies in the cubby.
Beanies are down there.
Honda is frankly the best in cars about figuring out cubbies
and places to put stuff.
And just you can you can hide your stuff away.
This at first glance is pretty minimal.
But it's these it's these modular side panels
that completely change how this works
and give you option for cooking or AC or all these kind of things
that you've talked about.
It's amazing.
And some of the ideas they haven't even shown yet
for what's going to go into these modular portals.
I mean, essentially we've got three vertical windows aside.
And those windows are modular for you to stick other things onto.
So you can kind of customize this trailer to your liking.
I actually think what this kills.
And these have been around I feel like since the dawn of man
certainly since the dawn of cars.
It's the half pop ups.
The really tiny pop ups on the two wheels.
And they're just they're half.
It's just a half box.
And the top half is this flimsy part that pops up.
This is actually where this kills.
And if you if you've been living in that world
and I feel like those haven't been redesigned
since somebody thought them up.
Nobody's done anything to those.
OK, caveman invented them.
Seriously.
They had their caveman invented the wheel
and created a half pop up.
But we were done.
I mean, so now Honda's come along.
I mean, this isn't for everybody
because it isn't very big and it is pretty minimal.
But there's versatility here.
And the modular reality of it could make it cool.
I'm not the buyer.
But anytime I see one of those half trailers
from here forward and be like that has been surpassed.
Somebody has shown up and shown you what to do.
Got to get past that.
Yes, we do.
So you'll also notice that it uses
actual automotive wheels on the trailer itself.
And also OK.
So here's the kitchen again.
So the fold out kitchen with sink.
And you can hook up generator.
You can hook up power.
But the ring, the LED ring around the windows on the side
can be used for exterior lighting or it can dance to the music
and pulse to the music for your little campsite dance party.
Or you can see it lit up here in blue.
You know the fact that Honda identified a sales market
and thought we can make money in that market speaks volumes.
I mean, it's got a pop top as well.
I mean, there's options here.
I mean, for those of you that can't see what we're showing,
imagine just a straight single car trailer in black.
And above that is like a rounded off rectangle in white
with an LED ring on either side and three windows aside.
That's really all it is.
And they have the pop top and they have these modular sides.
I mean, there's options here.
I'm very curious to see one of these in the wild
and to hear what people actually think of them
when they start using them.
We weren't able to climb around inside it
because, again, it was a bunch of grubby journalists
and we were all, you know, there's way too many of us
to try to attack this thing.
So we all ran around, it took photos.
I'm intrigued that Honda has entered this space
with this very well thought out thing.
I think what comes of it is still very much TBD.
Yes, agreed.
So right now it's just called the base station prototype
because I think they're still gauging market reaction
even though they've identified a market
and thought we can go make money in that market
because nobody's really bringing Honda design thinking.
And they are the kings of the cubbies
to figure out how to package space.
And if anybody doing this, it should be Honda.
Yeah, fair point.
So we'll go to base station one
and then they can upgrade it with base station two
and then they can do a larger one called base station plus.
Double axel.
I don't know.
Triple axel.
This is not my world.
Grow to the.
Not my world.
Because then they've got all the power sports,
all the Honda motorcycles and UTVs,
all those that fit in the back.
And I have to look, I'm going to be very candid.
It'll be a huge family of products.
Totally transparent right now.
We have good friends at Honda.
Thank you to those of you that are listening.
We have good friends at Honda.
Good to us.
Yes, absolutely.
There was a span of kinds of journalists there,
including folks that just do trailers,
including folks that just do travel.
I'm not, they don't need cars at all.
People that do all kinds of like,
you know, packaging and home stuff
and they were there and then us.
So when our Honda friends came over,
when this had been revealed and said,
what do you think?
I was all I could do to not say,
you know what we do, right?
I mean, it's nice to be here and it's cool.
But this is not our thing.
Okay.
And the folks that do, and there's some good coverage,
but some folks that do like travel trailers,
this was like Mardi Gras.
I mean, they were excited.
It's got lights.
Seriously, seriously.
And you and I were like, it's cool.
It's cool.
It's very cool.
It is cool, but it's not really what we do here.
So anyway, but cool that Honda had us out either way.
One more bit of news.
You've probably seen it.
This is what we do here,
but I am astonished by what I'm about to show you.
I cannot believe we're going to have this conversation,
but let's go there.
I'm sure you saw all of the photos of the Corvette ZR1X,
which we've already beat to death.
Look at the cameras all over this thing.
Yeah, of course, which you've already beat to death
because we think it's a bad name,
but the X means all-wheel drive.
Sure.
So the ZR1X was tested recently,
festooned with cameras.
Okay.
Spikes of cameras.
This did a 0 to 60 in 1.68 seconds.
So that's not like under two.
That's like almost one and a half.
I want to go ahead.
I mean, as we're talking about,
this is closer to one and a half than it is to two seconds.
I'm not good with numbers,
but that's how they work out.
Okay.
1.68 seconds, 0 to 60.
And an under nine second,
like a nine and three-quarter second,
pardon me, eight and three-quarter second,
quarter mile.
It's quicker than many bikes like street bikes.
That is okay.
I don't know hardly anything.
About drag racing.
But I do know enough to know this.
If you break 10, you're a big dog.
Anything that gets under 10
is a genuinely fast car on the drag side.
Low nines are a huge respect.
This is handily under nine.
That's insane.
That's insane.
I just, and I have to say this,
look, this is incredibly impressive.
This is Corvette doing yet another throw down there,
talking, shows the quality of traction of all-wheel drive,
even though I think it's interesting in this photo,
the rear wheels are spinning
and the front wheels are just sitting there,
because they're electric powered.
I think that's pretty funny,
because this is an all-wheel drive car.
This could just be the warm-up shot.
But why aren't the front wheels spinning?
That's my point.
Oh, true.
Anyway, so the front wheels just sitting there,
because, well, they're electric.
They're not going to do anything
until you really put your foot in.
I don't, who knows.
I'm sure there's a reason why,
but I just think it's funny
that the all-wheel drive car is spinning just the back.
But anyway, so there's that.
But the other thing about all of this is just,
I'm going to go there.
This would not be fun.
Just physically.
This is a speed at which you're going to survive it,
not enjoy it.
It's going to be that thing
where when you take your foot off the gas,
you go, it's that kind of thing.
Yes.
This is not like we,
I mean, I can't believe how fast I am.
This is that shock you get
when you're on one of those magnetic powered roller coasters
and you do takeoff.
People scream because the air got pushed out of them.
It's that instant takeoff.
That's a great point.
I am very impressed by this,
but I don't look at this.
I know this sounds crazy.
Some of you are shaking your head at me.
I know you are, but I don't think,
I don't hear any of this and think,
I'd like to try that.
I think, cool that it doesn't,
but I don't need to do that.
That's a shocking amount of speed.
It makes me think about what's next
because that's the biggest thing
for any car manufacturer is,
what's the model after this?
What do we do after this?
What do we do to improve?
Where do we go from here?
Driveability, comfort, style, speed, power, for years,
no car manufacturer has been able to touch this.
Then the electrics came along,
which makes me think of the Mercury Sperling, the Sperling.
Sperling, yeah,
which also doesn't look like it's fun to drive.
No, if you haven't watched
Henry Ketchpool's review of the Sperling around tracks,
I don't think he was having fun.
He looked to be in pain.
And the whole point with speed like this
is don't hurt the humans inside.
We are reaching that place.
Yes, we are.
Because should the next one be 1.4, 1.2, sub 1,
and then we've achieved what, bigger sales numbers?
Yeah, I mean, it's all bragging rights.
For what purpose, what reason?
And is it faster around a track
because it can do a drag race
or a quarter mile in that speed?
No, not necessarily.
Not necessarily, but in tracks
where you can do some running,
you are going to astonish people.
Does it sell more cars
because the numbers got lower?
Sadly, probably.
Does it work with the hypercars?
Because now everybody's comparing this
to all the Bugattis and the Ferraris
and you name the car.
This is faster for a quarter million
instead of three million.
Yeah, for sure.
And it's better, it's better, better, better, better.
I think of that McMurtry.
By the way, the decibel output of the Sperling
is 120 decibels.
That exceeds pretty much every track in the U.S.
that we can think of as far as the decibel limit.
No, some of Florida doesn't have it.
120, you're right, is because most of them are 103.
Most of them, I guess C-Bring in Florida
doesn't really have a decibel limit
and there are a handful of others.
But still.
But there are tracks that give you
waiver days for racing
and that kind of stuff.
Fair.
But this becomes a car that you cannot come
and floor it at most racetracks anywhere.
The electric is too loud.
Uh-huh, yeah.
And then it's too fast.
It hurts the humans.
You could hurt yourself.
You could make your brain slosh around
and hit the sides of your skull.
We're getting into test pilot,
like astronaut kind of levels of force.
Does it sell more cars?
Sadly, it probably will.
You think so.
To the right people, I hate to say it,
but I think to the right people, that matters.
But they'll never go experience it.
They'll never really go do this because the drag race,
that'll hurt my car.
That'll wreck my tires and hurt my car.
They want to be able to say they have a car
that does it, not that they want to do it.
And look, I actually now have it in front of me directly.
The quarter mile time is almost eight and a half.
It's 8.675.
That's unbelievably quick.
It's staggering.
It's staggering.
And I think, I actually think that the average,
look, I don't travel in drag cultures.
I know this.
So I'm speaking out of turn,
but I don't think most people at the drag strip
want to buy a car that fast.
They want to make a car fast.
That's interesting.
They want to build it to be that fast.
The average person that,
even if they have the money,
is going to buy a ZR1X
because what they do on the weekend
is go to the drag strip.
I don't think so.
I think the guys that have done it with Teslas
have enjoyed not being in the culture
showing up in the Tesla and blowing people away
because the drag culture,
in my minimal, very minimal experience with it,
is look at how fast I got my car to go.
And this is just like out of the box,
hurt everybody and yourself,
including the driver, and we're done.
Good news, everybody.
Welcome to the new YouTube car.
This versus the farm truck.
This versus the Tesla.
This versus the Lucid Air Sapphire.
This versus anything.
You know all those videos are forthcoming.
And you do the stagger with it.
Like this is how much farther ahead it is,
so then you see if they catch it.
They'll still catch it, of course.
Absolutely, yeah.
So all those, it's the new YouTube car.
The question is, do we think Dodge is going to have a word?
Do we think they're going to weigh in with
the next whatever that's going to be a combination?
Is Dodge going to take this sitting down?
They take a demon and it just comes into full Satan.
It's just Satan is coming.
Coming to the track.
Yeah.
What is Dodge going to do?
That's my big question.
What is Ford going to be like you guys?
You guys should have that.
I do have to acknowledge that there was a Dodge demon on a day
that did a 1-6-6.
So we're in demon territory.
But I just, I cannot believe this is a thing
that you can walk into a dealership with money and buy.
That just, I would like to drag that fast, please.
I would like to do zero to 60 under two.
It hurts me thinking about it.
That's how much I think it hurts.
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Today's topic Tuesday comes to us from Adam W.
who is angry at a car he likes.
This didn't go where I expected.
I thought we were going to talk about I bought something.
I thought I was going to love it.
And now all it does is break and let me down.
That's not what we're going at all.
Well, Adam recently bought his first all-wheel drive
family vehicle because he's expecting his first child
as of this email.
And by the time we are reading it now,
that child should have been born.
Probably, yes.
Adam, congratulations.
Very cool.
The car enthusiast in Adam is upset and his knives are out.
Yes.
He's not upset at the car, which is a 2023 Hyundai Santa Fe
Limited that he's quite happy with and would go as far as
calling it his fate and moment where he learns that driving
something that's comfortable and tech heavy can be its own
kind of rewarding experience.
Not the same as fun, but.
It isn't.
It isn't.
It's a brain shift.
Okay, fair enough.
But he's upset that he confirmed everything he previously
knew about all-wheel drive without ever having owned
an all-wheel drive vehicle, which he thinks is marketing
drivel.
Okay.
Adam acknowledges there will be some nuance in certain
situations of how respective all-wheel drive systems from
different companies will behave.
Yes.
They fundamentally don't seem to do anything once you get
moving.
And in Adam's opinion, that is a problem.
Okay.
On his Hyundai, Adam watches the digital display showing
how power is distributed to each wheel and tire.
And once he gets above 35 miles an hour, the system
rarely, if ever, sends any power to the rear wheels.
And that's common.
That's very common.
Your average five-seat SUV all-wheel drive is
essentially a front-wheel drive vehicle that occasionally
in the right, the weather's right, the temperature's
right, your throttle application is right.
It fires something to the back wheels until it
decides, okay, that's enough.
And it also tries very hard to stop sending power
to the rear wheels as soon as possible.
Yes.
Because all of the efficiency and everything that
works correctly is up front.
In the name of efficiency, there's the same reason
your automatic transmission hunts for top gear as
soon as you get moving and the car bogs down and
you have to stab the throttle.
Anyway, speaking of that, if Adam stabs the
throttle on an on-ramp and he gets a lovely wave of
torque from the 2.5-liter turbo, but he looks
at the display, the rear tires got power for
less than a second, almost like the computer
wants to make sure the traction control system
doesn't need to wake up to reign in the
madman behind the wheel, known as Adam.
Yes.
Then all the power is fed exclusively through
the front tires.
So now he's carrying around a couple hundred
pounds of extra weight to make starting off
easier.
And he has to pay extra maintenance costs just
so we can have a system that gives him some
amount of false confidence.
What's the point, he asks?
Adam, I am so excited about this and you
may not realize it, but you were so deep
into fighting words here with what you're
sharing.
It's just fantastic.
I love it.
In snow, he says your tires and ground
clearance are going to be far more
important than any all-wheel drive system.
He doesn't care what any upstate New York
bumpkin has to say about that.
Wow, he's just elbows out, man.
That's Adam, not me, not us.
Wow, all right.
OK.
He says if you feel like you need all-wheel
drive for snow, that's fundamentally a
skill issue.
Oh, I mean, this is just, this is,
this is not a topic Tuesday.
This is the start of a bar fight.
That's really what this is.
Yeah.
He doesn't see how all-wheel drive
offers any meaningful benefit in rain
that traction and stability control
didn't already provide.
If you're going off-road regularly
enough for it to be a purchase
consideration, he says you need a
four-by-four, not an all-wheel drive
vehicle.
If you're off-roading, I do agree with
that.
You're off-roading?
Yeah, absolutely.
While there's argument to be made for
hyper-specific scenarios like rally
cross, the all-wheel drive systems
used in those vehicles are nowhere
near similar to what you're getting
from manufacturer-producing road-going
vehicles, so you end up overpaying
for a feature that's nothing more
than a marketing exercise.
Obtality.
This is exciting.
Plus, brands at different price
points have tried to market an
identity on their all-wheel drive
systems from Subaru to Audi, and
Adam is actually angry that he
bought into the hype.
So just as a side note, if you're
just, if you just need to vent,
we're here.
We're here.
We're here.
We get those emails.
Adam has clearly written one of
them.
We might turn it into a topic
Tuesday, but there are those of
you out there that are harboring
like what the heck is up with
this.
We get those emails too.
This is one of the first ones
we talk about, but I really,
really like this.
He says this also brings us to
all-wheel drive performance cars
where he understands that it's
quote brand insurance.
No, it's actually it's customer
safety to have to have a 600 pound
600 horsepower plus car.
Your hyper cars, all-wheel drive,
because let's be honest,
you're protecting your buyer
for the next time.
He understands that exists.
Yes.
But he's sitting there going
if it's going to be that fast.
Look, we just talked about the
ZR1X all-wheel drive.
Yes.
He's like, what about the power?
Yeah.
What about actually learning how
to drive that?
He's asking that question as
well. So all of this is him
sitting here going,
would you guys please unpack
this under the category of
his all-wheel drive necessary?
And Adam, I'm going to step
carefully here for a little
while and then I'm not.
But I'm going to start some
place really interesting.
Okay.
And that is the last time you
and I got onto an all-wheel
drive rant.
And I'm sure I probably read
led the charge.
But the last time we did,
I posted that clip of the
podcast as just a short,
just a little comment of where
you and I like as an aside
in a different conversation
talked about the fact
you don't need all-wheel drive,
you need proper tires.
The comments on that short
were widespread and fascinating.
And there were some comments
on that short.
I don't know if you people
saw this, but some people,
some comments on that short
where people were literally
saying that you and I were
being irresponsible to suggest
that people would not get
benefit from all-wheel drive
and to not promote all-wheel
drive is superior.
We were actually giving
bad advice.
There were comments like that
in there.
And there were other people
that were actually followers
of ours that were saying
Todd and Paul have driven
enough things and are good
enough drivers
that they can get away with it,
but the rest of us need
all-wheel drive.
So what I'm saying here is
this is one of those
Pepsi Coke left versus right.
This is one of those
volatile topics.
And it seems benign to me.
But that short,
I kind of thought so,
but that short taught me
that you right now
listening, watching,
you have thoughts.
You have thoughts.
Okay.
You feel very deeply about this.
And I want to unpack it
at length under one title,
but I want you to go for a bit,
but my title,
my headline for this
is the benefit,
the value,
where this works,
where it doesn't,
all comes down to
you have four little
contact patches
and that is it.
But where'd you go?
The car on screen
is a 2021 Santa Fe.
So this is also similar
to Adam's 2023.
The styling did not change
until 24, I believe.
And then they made the box one.
So then they made the box.
So here it is,
that Santa Fe.
And we've driven this
and it was fine.
It was just fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I have noticed Adam
on many cars,
Hyundai's included many cars,
give you that little graph.
They give you the little
digital instrument panel
showing how torque is thrown around.
I don't think that's
something you should be watching
when you're mashing the gas
or even just,
but why did manufacturers
decide to make an infographic
and actually show their customers?
You who bought it,
they show the customer,
here's what's happening
to throw power around.
See, we're safe.
See, we're proving it.
Well, and how correct is that?
That's the other thing about it.
Thank you.
That was where I was going next.
But I have no idea
if that's correct.
The front wheel show
like they're taking most of the traction.
Okay.
Little bit of back wheel spin.
But if there is any situation
where the rear wheels
do need to really fire up,
you're not going to be paying
attention to that gauge.
You're not going to be wondering,
well, is the car going to be safe?
Is the car going to save me right now?
Right.
You're right.
Yeah, I'm wondering.
Most cars these days
are definitely designed
to be front wheel drive first
to absolutely Adam.
I agree
to put safety first, I guess,
to for most,
the common denominator that I'm saying
of most drivers
is to not hit anything.
When drivers talk about being safe
and I'm a good driver,
first of all,
have you met any drivers
that will admit to you
that they're bad?
Have you met anybody that would say,
That's very good.
I'm not a very good driver.
I actually do have a friend.
You would always say,
do you want to drive
because I'm not that great at driving?
And I was like, honesty,
this is amazing.
And by the way,
Paul will say yes to that
every single time.
I will take you please.
He will absolutely be happy
to do that for you.
Yes.
He is a rare person,
but he admitted,
I'm not a good driver,
but for the most part,
do any of us admit
that we're bad drivers?
Because I think there is a huge
difference between
steering around the earth,
just steering around
and not hitting
anything,
not pinballing your way off parked cars
and mailboxes
and stumps
and people and things.
You're vaguely pointing the object.
Yes.
I'm a good driver
because I didn't hit anything.
And I've got a good driver record
because I've never hit anything.
I've never backed into something.
I've never hit anything.
I've never.
So that means I'm a good driver.
Okay.
Well, I've seen plenty of examples.
Well, yeah,
you're technically not hitting anything.
But man,
are you unobservant?
You don't know
what the speed limit is
because you haven't checked.
You don't know that I'm behind you.
You're drifting in the lane.
You're on your phone.
But you're not hitting anything.
Good job.
So that lowest common denominator
thinking,
I agree with you, Adam,
has crept into automobile manufacturers
not wanting to be sued.
Of course.
Because your car is too powerful.
Your coffee was too hot, McDonald's.
Remember that one?
Yeah.
From decades ago?
Yeah.
For sure.
The coffee was too hot.
Well, you ordered coffee.
Yeah.
I mean,
yeah, there's more to that story.
But I do take your point.
Yes.
So lowest common denominator thinking
has also crept into high performance cars
like Ferrari.
When you turn the traction control
all the way off and you're in track mode,
is it really off?
Fair.
Because the more you turn the wheel,
it comes back in.
It actually adds back in.
When you let go of the wheel.
Yeah, sure.
It disappears.
You got plenty of wheel spin.
Then you turn the wheel.
They're wanting to protect their cars,
their customers from calling back and saying,
Yes.
Well, your car
is too fast, too powerful.
I couldn't handle it.
Well, are you a good driver?
Well, yes.
Look at my safety record.
I've never crashed anything till now.
Right.
OK.
And just as you said with the ZR1X,
well, it's got so much power
and I can't believe we can walk into a showroom
and buy it.
Yeah, you're right.
You're totally right.
Yeah.
The dealership won't check your driving record.
True.
Because they don't care.
True.
Are you a good driver?
Well, yeah, I can totally handle
well over a thousand horsepower.
An 8.5 seconds quarter mile time
and an almost one and a half seconds zero to 60.
I can totally.
Yeah.
I got my driving record.
I got this.
I'm a good driver.
Yeah.
Driver.
I've never hit anything yet.
You're actually a terrible driver
because of list of reasons.
I can't see your eyes in the exterior review mirror.
I know where you're looking.
I can tell where people are and are not looking
just by where their car is.
The attitude of the car in the lane.
I can tell if you're on your phone.
Sometimes I'm wrong.
I'm like, why you?
Oh, you're on your phone.
Yeah.
Of course you are.
Nine times out of 10,
if somebody does something inexplicable,
they are on their phone.
They're on their phone.
We are all guilty, folks.
Yeah.
But you didn't hit anything.
True.
And the insurance company doesn't know
how bad of a driver you are
because that's not reflected in any accidents,
any physical contact with anything.
Yeah.
So now this is where all-wheel drive comes into play.
They want to continue doing that.
And I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist.
But have insurance companies and car manufacturers said,
you know what would keep insurance premiums down
and fewer accidents as if we gave everybody all-wheel drive?
Well, yeah, it does add weight to the car.
And there's some performance cars.
Do we really need all-wheel drive?
Was the 911 made better by being all-wheel drive?
It certainly added weight and deadness to the front-end steering.
Sure, yeah.
They've actually amazingly
overcome most of it in the new Carrera T hybrid,
which is very quick and sharp.
But then I keep thinking to myself,
what's the two-wheel drive version of this?
It's probably even more amazing.
Fair, fair.
Okay.
And then in any rear-wheel drive car,
you and I get in, we're just going,
this is how driving should be.
Mid-engine, front-engine.
This is great, except for the heavy Mustang
and probably the heavy Corvette.
It's probably poor.
It has to do with whether or not your steering is dead.
And some of those bigger cars is steering still dead, yeah.
So I'm kind of with you.
I do see your point.
I do think there are certain cases where it has its place,
but Adam, this got under my skin too.
I'm with you because car manufacturers
don't want their cars to be dinged.
They want you to have a car that you like enough
and you're going to come back and buy another one.
They want repeat customers.
But for most of the driving population
that hasn't ever been tested since Driver's Ed,
when they were in high school,
it retested, I mean.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They haven't hit anything their whole lives
and so they're good drivers.
My son about to get his license
makes this very apparent to me.
And he's, you know, the place he's at now?
I was driving with him last night in the dark.
We were coming home.
He was driving as many.
It was in the dark.
We were coming back from Salt Lake.
It's winter.
We were driving down I-80.
There's turns.
There's traffic.
And he did perfectly fine.
Not outstanding.
But Scott, they're thinking, you're right.
You're ready for a license.
There's a ton of stuff you don't know.
There's a ton of refinement that I would like you to have.
But can you drive everywhere you need to go?
Yeah.
Now, between can you drive everywhere you need to go
and I'm a good driver?
These are not equivalent.
There's a grand canyon in between those two.
And it's like skiing and many other activities.
I think you can always be getting better as a driver.
I don't think there's ever a place where like,
I reached the plateau.
I am done now.
Max Verstappen still does sim work to become a better driver.
And beats people.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, for sure.
So you never stop.
But I was aware.
I did kind of mentally reach that place with my son
last night where I actually said to him,
I was like, buddy, you're ready to do this.
You're ready to have your license.
That's amazing.
And I said to him, I said, there's a ton of stuff
I'd like you to get better at.
But it's just kind of take time and driving
and having experience.
And as weird as it sounds, and this is hard for me
as a father, but it's true,
having experience when I'm not with you.
You're in the car by yourself and you
got to make the call.
Because I'm eyes and head on a swivel
when I ride with that kid.
Sure.
I'm calling everything.
Sure.
Some of what she sees, some of what she doesn't.
I'm calling stuff that doesn't matter.
Like that guy two lanes over is doing something weird.
OK.
But that starts to teach him to get his eyes up
and start paying attention to scenarios.
But I just realized between where he is,
and I'm not saying I'm great,
but where he is and where I am,
there's so many decades of driving experience.
He's just got to go do it.
We've reached the you're not crashing into things.
We're there.
I mean, what bugs me the most are rear view cameras.
I like it and I rely on it.
And it is awesome.
It helps me back into space.
It's a godsend.
It's fantastic.
But also it's made people really lazy.
And we don't turn around to look where we're going anymore.
I don't know.
And that doesn't mean it's taken away all accidents.
And that means every safety feature,
you can't litigate or make the safety features
to take the danger out of driving.
You can't you can't invent enough safety features
and even autonomy.
You can't make it so all wheel drive
and so sensor heavy and festoon with everything
that it will never have an accident
or never get confused.
I don't think it's possible.
It isn't possible.
It isn't possible.
But there's some drivers that you're probably
not the person the insurance company
in the car manufacturer needs to worry about.
Potentially.
Let's hope not.
Yeah.
I don't feel like we are the people
that you need to worry about on the road.
I see people all the time like,
oh, that was a bad choice.
That was a bad choice.
But somehow you made it through.
It happens.
It happens.
Sure.
All right.
Okay, go.
Okay, I may go way off base here,
but I'm going to run around a little bit on this
and I'm going to just I'm going to put up a picture here
that is just all of the different drive types shown.
And then I want to talk about this
from a lot of levels because I think,
I think Adam is right.
This is going to be good.
I think this is just a crutch.
But I also want to explain when it's valuable.
Because it's valuable.
All comes down to contact patch.
Okay.
Yes.
You have four.
I know you've all heard this,
but you have four little patches,
little things the size of a note card.
Okay.
Four of those are what's transmitting
everything you want a car to do to the road.
So anything that affects any one of those four patches,
you're losing traction.
You're losing the ability to tell the car
to do something else.
And I'll give you an example.
I sat on I 70 last winter,
right around this time last winter,
it was February of last winter.
Okay.
Sat on I 70 with just a light snow on I 70.
And getting up to the tunnel to get away
from the ski resorts was some of the worst traffic
I've encountered in my lifetime.
That was Eisenhower tunnel, right?
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
Getting up to the tunnel was horrific.
And most of the time, what was happening
is it was just people who were not
on winter tires or even winter rated tires.
And the minute that they stopped in traffic,
which is going to happen to you at some point,
they could never get going again.
Now, in that scenario.
Momentum.
Yes.
Well, but you didn't have a choice.
Everybody in front of you stopped
and you're sitting on a hill
and now there's ability to move,
but now you need to move from a stop.
But let's think about this.
This is the place where that all-wheel drive
at a start helps because you're sitting there
and now you have to get moving.
And if you don't, and this is my
real push for all-wheel drive is helpful.
If you don't have all-wheel drive,
you have half as much chance of getting going.
Right.
And I love rear-wheel drive cars in the snow.
I like all kinds of cars in the snow.
But in that instance, we were in my wife's kind.
I was appreciative of the fact that we had all-wheel drive.
Now, we had the proper tires.
We had Quattrack Pros, which are good all-weather tires,
snow-rated tires.
We use them year-round.
They're actually my favorite Wetterstein product
is the Quattrack Pros.
They're amazing.
Yeah, they're awesome.
Great in the summer, good in the winter.
So I wasn't worried about the tires,
but I was also aware of the fact,
because I could actually feel it from the driver's seat.
I could feel all four tires are finding their traction moment,
because they have the right tires.
Car's still on torque around.
All four tires are trying to find no slip angle
so they can start moving.
Okay?
And I'm watching cars around us, front-wheel drive cars,
rear-wheel drive cars, that I'm aware of the fact
that if I was in my Lotus, okay,
my Elise with WindTrack Pros on it,
full-winner tires,
I would have struggled more to get going,
even though I have the right tires on that car
and it doesn't weigh much.
It doesn't take much momentum to get that car going.
It weighs 2,000 pounds.
I'm showing it here with Paul's GT4
from when we drove those cars in a blizzard.
That was a great day.
Okay, it was a great day.
I 100% believe I could have gotten up that climb
on I-70 in the Elise,
but I know that every time I had to stop
and start going again,
I would have been having to modulate the throttle
to not overspend the rear wheels
because I've got half as many contact patches
as everybody else.
I'm aware of that, but Adam's right.
Because as soon as you get going,
this is an irrelevancy
because everything else you need to do,
you still have four contact patches, okay?
If I have four contact patches that have proper grip
because I have the right tires in bad weather,
it doesn't matter what my drive wheels are
because my turning and my braking,
I have the same four contact patches
as everybody else,
whether they have all-wheel drive or not.
So now it is just about the tires.
All of these manufacturers program
their all-wheel drive systems to just get you going.
And now that you're going, let's be honest,
that's an endorsement of my point
because the manufacturers know that
if I can just get you going,
then it doesn't matter what your drive wheels are.
They know it too.
That's the other part that's happening here
that's insidious.
If you have something like a GTR or an Evo,
that is all-wheel drive thinking all the time.
It's going to help you in corner,
it's going to help you in braking
because if you actually engine brake,
all the wheels are thinking.
The wheels are constantly sending power
to a specific wheel.
It'll help cornering, braking, starting.
That is real all-wheel drive.
True, true.
But the manufacturers know exactly what I'm saying.
It's all-wheel drive to just get you moving
and now that you're moving,
you don't need all-wheel drive.
We'll just go to two-wheel drive.
And now you're at the mercy of your tires.
This is tires, tires, tires, tires, people.
I'm telling you, okay?
That is the beginning and end of this
is just about the tires.
This is also dummy-proofing.
All-wheel drive is dummy-proofing.
If you just had all-wheel drive,
you'd be safer.
For all those good drivers out there.
But the problem is it's only at a start
for most vehicles.
And Adam, you're the person that owns
an all-wheel drive car
that's actually realized that's the case.
Most people, I bet you,
if we were able to pull all-wheel drive drivers,
all of them think no matter what they drive.
And I realize there are somewhere
that it is moving all-wheels all the time.
Okay? The Cayans do.
All right?
But I guarantee you
the average person driving an all-wheel drive
thinks all four wheels are moving
equivalently at all times.
If you jacked the car up,
all four wheels would spin.
And that is the rare exception.
Yes.
The rare exception.
So this is being sold as all-wheel drive
has made you safer.
And I will submit this to you.
All-wheel drive has made you more able
to start in any condition.
And after that, it's done.
The engine braking
that does transmit breaking power
through the all-wheel drive system does help.
If the system works that way.
If it works that way.
But I'm saying, I'm saying.
I almost don't.
If you have an all-wheel drive vehicle,
in general, broad strokes,
it works like Adams.
It's a front-wheel drive vehicle
that occasionally throws torque to the rear.
And that is a system designed to get you
moving forward all the time.
And so people, and this is where we get hit,
but I stand by it.
If you gave me the option,
tires or drive wheels,
tires every time.
Tires every time.
I agree.
Because that'll get you,
give you more chance of having grip
for the contact patches
that you actually are trying to move.
Front, rear, whatever.
More chance of those actually having enough grip
to get going.
And then in every other scenario,
tires, those contact patches
are the right grip
to get you to turn or stop or whatever.
So for all of you that buy all-wheel drive
and think whatever tires I've got are fine,
I really want to say again,
look into what your tires are good for.
And then have a real conversation with yourself
about, look, I am not saying
that one size fits all on,
this is the way to solve this.
How do you drive your car?
Where do you drive your car?
A place like California.
Okay?
If you don't have four-wheel drive
or can't prove all-wheel drive,
they will make you put chains on.
They don't care what your tires are.
Going to Mammoth.
But I just, yeah, sure.
I could take my, I guarantee you,
I could take my lease on winter tires
to Mammoth in a Blizzard
and I could get there.
Because the winter tires are good
and the car doesn't weigh much.
Put me on a Blizzard going from Bishop to Mammoth.
I could take cops out of the equation.
I could get there.
I could get there.
Sure.
But the authorities aren't going to let you through.
But the authorities are not going to let me
even think about it.
Right.
Because I cannot prove to them
that the tires are mattering.
And that is entirely,
let's keep people as safe as we can.
Let's avoid litigation.
You let me go through my two-wheel drive car.
No, I didn't.
I forced you to put chains on.
So your usage might be,
I need all-wheel drive
because that is actually fitting my life.
But I want to take away this
and we're not going to succeed.
We're going to fail.
But I would love to take away this impression
that people have in general
that all-wheel drive is safer
because I do not believe that to be true.
And Adams discovered it.
In a track situation,
I'll let you think this is hypothetical
but this can happen.
Somebody is used to driving
an all-wheel drive car on track
and then switches to something
that is rear-wheel drive only.
You cannot drive them the same way
because you might think
that that car will pull you out of a corner
when it doesn't and it actually over-rotates
because it sends all that power
to the rear wheels instead
over-rotates the car,
sends the car into the far wall.
That can happen.
Let's be honest.
You're not mentioning person or car
because and the driver used to have
an all-wheel drive car
and they were very, very fast in that car.
And they knew exactly,
they had the brain pattern, if you will,
for where to hit full throttle on this course.
And in their old car,
it would never do them wrong.
But now they're in a rear-wheel drive powerful car.
Same power application in the same place
with the same line
from a person that knows how to do this track.
But the car does something totally different.
Adam, you mentioned rally.
And rally, absolutely necessary.
The drivers are using it
because they're superb.
They're probably the best drivers on the planet.
They are using that to their effect.
DTM banned Audi using their Quattro system
because Quattro used to throw power 50-50.
That Avant wagon that I had from 2005?
Oh, fours and oh, four.
That Quattro split was 50-50.
And you could feel it.
It's like the thing grabbed the earth.
It has that four-wheel drive feeling.
A Nissan GTR.
The very first one we had.
The first iteration was in 2009.
And backing out of the driveway,
it's almost like it's a 4x4 with the hubs locked.
And so the inside wheel is fine.
The outside wheel is being dragged across the pavement.
And it's screeching and the transmission
is making strange, breaky noises.
It was weird, yeah.
And then in a straight line and then around a corner,
the car's just sucked to the ground.
Crazy how that was true.
It's almost like a cheat code.
In those instances, yeah.
And rally, absolutely.
It can matter.
And having all four wheels doing the same thing
at the same time
and the best drivers taking advantage of that,
that car shouldn't ever go anywhere else
but where you point it.
You know what?
The new Jim Kona video, all right?
The new Jim Kona video is the brat,
this 900-horsepower brat.
The brataroo.
Okay?
Yeah.
That Travis Pastrana is driving.
And there's plenty of times where he's drifting that.
And the whole reality is, and let's be honest,
this is Subaru selling all-wheel drive.
The concept is this is what's happening in my outback.
That even though I don't have them out of power,
all four wheels are fighting at all times.
Maybe.
He's demoing it in air.
Yes.
All four wheels.
Yes, we all think that's what all-wheel drive is.
That is so custom built for racing and rallying.
But I am going to wrap this up on my side by saying this.
If you want the best possible option
in terrible conditions, it is all-wheel drive
and winter tires.
I'm talking about it blizzering outside.
There's going to be hills.
There's going to be ice.
Sure.
All-wheel drive, winter tires.
That is the right combination.
Anything less than that,
you aren't in optimal condition.
But you cannot go into that thinking,
well, whatever tires I have are great.
Or that once you're rolling,
I'm so much better off than everybody else.
Because frankly, in my tiny Elise,
if I got lucky enough in the blizzard to get moving,
and I probably will,
it's just going to take me some time.
You took off.
You left the gas station.
I'm still navigating some things.
The snow is deep.
I got some slippage back there.
I'll get there.
I'm going to get moving.
But once we're moving,
when we hit that place in traffic,
where there's fog and everybody hits their brakes,
I'm going to stop long before you did.
Yeah.
It's important that we all continually have a mindset
of getting better as drivers and being observant.
And remembering that when you're in the driver's seat,
that's your number one priority,
is to operate the car and drive,
and look ahead and look up.
Not your phone, not makeup,
not cereal, not toast, not anything else.
That is priority one.
I see so many people where that has dropped
to about priority number four on the list.
It's amazing how much watching of our phone
we do, like actual videos and stuff.
I've seen people scroll with shorts.
It's just, brace yourself, everybody.
We've ran about this before,
but here it is, coming back and wanting
to become a better driver,
because there's so many people
that are uninterested in driving.
It's just a way of moving themselves from point A
to point B.
And they are not thinking about my tire patch.
I'm thinking about my tire pressures
every time I go out.
I'm like, oh, it's a little bit colder today.
What are my tire pressures like?
It doesn't matter what I'm driving.
We are weirdos, but yes, yeah.
It's gone too far.
So I'm not saying you need to constantly
be driving like you're on track,
the hyper-awareness like you're on track
at all times while you're on the street.
It is a little bit more relaxed than that.
It is, for sure, yes.
But still, we want everybody to become better drivers.
Come to Hookt on Driving Track Day.
You get instruction, right seat instruction,
and the awareness does translate to the street.
It does, you're right.
Here's how I'm going to coin it.
All-Wheel Drive is a get-going device.
It's not a safety feature.
It's a get-going device.
Why does the Ferrari FF need this super complicated
all-wheel drive system in the front axle
that goes through the oil pan?
And then subsequent second, third buyers
have this massive maintenance problem,
as far as like, ah, I don't care.
You bought it used.
I don't know what to tell you.
I have no idea.
But yeah, there you go.
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Speaking of hooked-on driving stuff,
we have lots of hooked-on driving events
coming right now.
Hooktondriving.com, go to there right now,
hit the Schedule tab, and you can just see
there'll be scrolling pages of stuff
going on hooked-on driving this year.
We're very, very excited at stuff happening nationwide,
but I want to point out a couple.
First off is Circuit of the Americas.
That is May 30th and 31st in Austin, Texas.
Two great days on that track.
I'm very, very excited to be going back.
Registration for that are already happening quick.
So it's going to be a really, really good weekend.
So if you're interested,
if you ever wanted to drive Circuit of the Americas,
this is your year.
They're making changes for next year.
We're not sure what all's happening.
It's going membership.
It's very weird, but they love having us there.
We love going.
So Circuit of the Americas in the end of May.
Pilgrimage is coming.
That's right.
We're doing it again.
The Ring and Spa,
but I want to unpack this a little further.
We've done this every year we can,
except for COVID years for 10 years.
It is still, well, I'll only speak for me.
It is the highlight of my year every year.
I think it might be for you too.
It is so great.
It's so great.
And the Ring remains my favorite track I've ever driven.
I'm a little bit weird,
but what we find with anybody that goes,
you either fall in love with Spa
or you fall in love with the Ring.
They're both great tracks.
They're both amazing.
But I will say that more people like Spa
than like the Ring generally.
Okay.
So here's what's happening this year.
So amazing.
Just based on the way that the count,
we don't get to pick the calendar.
Okay.
So based on when we get to go
and just do the trip we want to do,
this actually is two days Spa this year.
So two days at Spa, a road tour day,
and then one day at the Ring
that is an actual track day,
which means people paying attention.
It's not to this in Farton.
And lots fewer cars on track,
which is the way you want to do the Ring.
And it's not just lead follow.
It isn't.
It is right to get yourself on track.
We also have a fun tourist day
at the front and the rear.
We've expanded the trip out.
But I want you to notice
that this is a more expensive trip
than it's been in the past
because it has an additional track day.
That is expensive because you're there for track
and cars and instructor and fuel
and all of that adds up big time.
So it is a little bit more expensive trip this year
than it was in years past
because it has three track days,
an extra track day on Spa.
But keep in mind,
you can be in Europe as a tourist
with tourist days, drive days,
two days on Spa and the Ring
and still get out for the same price
as going to others domestic track days
where you brought your own car,
you only did lead follow
and you kind of drove every day.
I mean, flight's notwithstanding.
Of course.
No, we do not include airfare
because we don't know
where you are on the planet
and what upgrades you want to do
and what miles you want to use.
So get yourself there.
But beyond that, yes,
it's on parity with any other US adventure
that we found.
It's crazy.
And then you're in Europe doing the Ring and Spa.
And yeah, again, it's two days at Spa.
It's going to be incredible.
So you can find that at everydaydriver.com
slash pilgrimage or what you could do
is go to everydaydriver.com slash adventures.
And there you will see the two adventures
that we're doing in the US this year
along with pilgrimage.
So all three of those
are at everydaydriver.com slash adventures.
You can see it right down here.
And then think about clearing your calendar
for those because we want you with us on these trips.
Well, as you bring it up, actually,
it's two weeks before the Cota trip.
It's the middle of May is our Monterey adventure.
Come drive PCH and other great
California roads with us
and then do a track day at Laguna Seca.
That is actually by the time this is up next Tuesday.
I'm calling my shot.
That'll be available for registration.
OK, excellent.
So that's going to be there.
If you're one of our patrons,
you got early access to these trips.
And many of our patrons have already signed it
for pilgrimage, but there's still space.
The Monterey trip is going to go quick.
Yeah, it is.
It's going to be awesome.
The minute we said we were going back to California,
the amount of chatter on discord was like an atom bomb.
It was like, California.
It's getting really cool.
You've got to come.
You also need to know about Starstripes and Speed
at Hooked On Driving.
So that is our Northeast region.
Santi and Cody are putting on amazing events up there,
and that is for Watkins Glen, July 4th weekend,
July 3rd through the 5th.
It is going to be another bash,
a huge weekend on track, camping, fireworks,
drifting, car show.
It's going to be an incredible event.
So if you're on the East Coast,
plan to go to Watkins Glen for that.
And then, of course, all of our events nationwide
can be seen at hookedondriving.com.
We definitely want you with us.
Bring your car.
Yes.
Learn how to become a better driver
and enjoy yourself.
It's so much fun.
We hope to see you there.
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These next two debates are related.
But they're unintentionally related.
It's not like they sent in,
hey we heard about my buddy.
They just are so very similar.
It's uncanny.
Yeah.
It's coincidence that I didn't know was possible
but I guess it is.
Supposedly.
So we've got Michael writing to us from Ohio.
Well Michael bought a car that he really wanted
and it turns out he didn't want it
as much as he thought he did.
Not terribly long ago Michael compromised a little bit
and bought a Cayman GTS 4.0 with the PDK
and the exact color combination that he wanted.
Even got a decent price for it for a Porsche.
How is that a compromise?
All of us would ask.
He says well first of all
the original plan was to buy a 718 Spider
and then the YouTube consumption took over his life
and ruined his good time.
What happened is he heard all the normal YouTube stuff.
I mean you've heard it as well.
Let's see that that generation.
We've talked about it.
The gearing's too tall.
You won't get to shift it enough in your normal driving
because it was designed to be on the ring.
PDK you just get PDK it'll be better.
He heard all the things
and he just thought all right.
He was worried about decent weather running out in Ohio
and he thought you know I'm having trouble
actually pulling the trigger on the extra cost
for the Spider.
I should just get the Cayman GTS40 PDK
and he got it and he thinks he says
his future biographers I love that
will write this moment as a mistake
because he said it's beautiful.
It makes a great sound.
He says it's the best car he's ever driven
and he's included his brief opportunity earlier
in life of driving a Ferrari F430.
It is fundamentally the best car he's ever driven.
He said the PDK is awesome.
Everything you've heard is true.
It's as good as it can get.
The whole car's result is kind of boring.
It's so good you can almost hear it say
don't drive directly into a tree
and I'll manage the rest for you.
Wow he said it's satisfying
but in a very narrow sort of way.
So now what he says
Porsches have legendary ability to hold their value.
Yes absolutely.
You'll find these cars are selling at
or above their MSRP.
Even there are five six model years old
but if you're the seller he says
the car you own has lost 15%
of the market value in the last four months
and 20% from its original price.
Well what's happening there is.
What they're in huge demand he says.
Because you know what this means
none of the dealers that are going to
sell them are going to buy it at the price
that you want because they've got to
get their markup back out of it.
All of that to say in order to exit
what he calls the Cayman catastrophe.
Wow okay.
He's going to have to eat what works
out to be about $15 per mile
that he got to drive this car.
He can afford it right now
but context matters.
Yeah I mean he's saying
look he is aware of the fact
that he's blessed enough
he could get out of this car
he could take that hit
but it's not like you didn't notice.
He is 44 his wife is 28
and they like top down driving
row your own gears twisty Ohio
back roads that's what he's looking for
you're already understanding
why the Cayman's not working
the Cayman's hard top and PDK.
He was thinking convertible
with his wife
manual transmission and I'm sure
she'd ride fine in the Cayman
that's not the problem but the problem
is the picture's been failed
because spider because the original
plan was to get spider
better save a little bit of money
for sure and he figured all right
you know maybe he can make this work out
he's also thought about
okay what about track days
maybe he could do an hod day
in the Poconos you should come
by the way that the northeast guys
do a great event.
He said he's also thinking about
okay if not the spider what else
and then go on to a little thing
and I have a side rant here but
said Lotus Amira
but his 14-year-old son
has said no Lotus Amira
and that's better for the track
I don't agree by the way
I don't think of the Amira
and I love mine
but I don't think of the Amira
as a track car but okay
so the Amira they think
probably doesn't work
so he's right now he's narrowed it
down to a 718 spider
which he should have bought
in the first place
is thinking or a C806
which his son really likes
but of course that's not manual
but now the question is
does Michael get the spider
that he's wanted for years
or does he sit down and do math
ooh math that's scary
the reason is because Michael's
in the financially advisory business
and he is constitutionally obligated
to do the math
uh-huh yes you are
uh-huh
his budget has a hard ceiling
of a hundred and forty thousand dollars
for that amount of money
Michael writes he can get
a preposterously loaded Z06
they might actually give you a discount
because they're having trouble
moving those cars now
I mean now you could
probably get them
it's crazy yeah
yes
and despite them being more common
in his area then
as a very special car
he says there's no manual
plus he dailies an f90 generation
m5
and it's so stupid fast
that he feels like he would have no need
for the kind of nutty acceleration
the Corvette would have to offer
okay so a straight line
bullets are relevant
because of the m5
he's got that salt
this is a fun car
this is an engagement car
yeah yeah
so he doesn't think
that's the answer
despite it be cool
so he got to thinking
why buy one car
that does everything
when he could split that price
in two and get two cars
and cover more ground that way
so in spite of being a financial advisor
Michael has listened to this podcast
for a long time
yes okay got it love it
for well under his budget
he can get a nicely appointed
lower mileage manual 981 Boxster S
and a 987.2 Cayman S
a 981 Cayman S GTS
or any of Cayvan R
but then wouldn't he have two
of the same car
yes
yes you would
he can't quite make sense
of a 981 GT4
and a 987.2 Boxster
nor can he fit the GTA4
in with the even with higher mileage
997 911 Cabriolet
even though he's ambivalent
towards a 911 without a roof
he wonders
what is our best shot
at the two car solution
or conversely
tell him it's a bad idea
and go get the spider
Michael I also want to
this is great
thank you for writing in
I also want to talk about the fact that
his solution
for two cars
is to buy two Porsches
two Caymans
well exactly
you yeah
but even if I'm being generous
it's two Porsches
why would okay
as much as they make good cars
there is no good reason
if you're going to split this budget
and buy two cars to buy two cars
of the same brand
that are both sports cars
I don't care what brand you want
I mean here it's Porsche
but don't even do that
it's like saying
I'm going to buy
a C7 Corvette
and a C7 Grand Sport
what's like
what are we doing
what are we doing
Corvette collector
exactly right
so yeah you can't buy two Porsches
that's not right
I mean maybe the spider
okay there's a lot to talk about here
this is good
this is what Michael currently drives
and you know what Michael
I like your ideas about an Amira
I like your thoughts about the Z06
I like your thoughts
well here's another Z06
without the obnoxious wing
and you know what most of all
I like the idea of the spider
and I suppose
that now I'm going to try to convince
you to just go get a spider
but what I'm actually hearing is
I almost think you need
a completely different driving experience
I almost feel like you need
car sorbet
I don't know what that product is
I don't know what it tastes like
I don't even know if you ingest it
you just need something that is
either visually refreshing
I guess visually
or just the driving experience
is just something totally different
because I feel like
as good as these cars are
and as much as they work for
these two guys
Amira GT4
I feel like you're
still gonna
just wonder
you're gonna go for this spider
and I think it would be great
for a short time
and then you'll get the itch again
and then you'll be thinking
huh
I wonder
I wonder what else I could have gotten
I'm not sure I'm about the two cars
and I'm not sure you need to spend
all of that $140,000
either because
I am victim to this too
I've got
that amount of money saved up
and will I have to spend every last
all and maybe a little bit more
and that's most of what I do
in my recommendations for all of you
I want to spend all of it
and a little bit more
to get the car
in some cases that works
but in this case
I don't even need
I don't think you even need to spend half
to go find
the thing you're looking for
the enjoyment
the newness
the new driving experience
now Michael
we don't know
your driving history
we don't really know
your car ownership history
and what you've had in the past
or just what you've driven and experienced
you've selected some amazing cars
really
any one of these
I think we would all be pretty excited with
I mean
true true
I think the audience right now
and everybody else is just kind of going
huh
those are your choices all right
yeah
I'll take any of them
totally
like totally
yeah
throw a dart
I
eyes closed
throw the dart
I will
I would take that
I'm not usually the guy that says
to go get yourself in the eye
you're not normally
yes
but this could really work
you said you want top-down
motoring shift at yourself
and for about $15,000
you can get a really sweet one
you're talking to Thurgen NC
Thurgen NC is what I'm looking for
so I've got a Thurgen NC on screen
so here it is with the top up
I mean this is almost like a mini GT car
I mean it is
yeah they're great
well you can get power
retractable hard top on these
which is excellent
I mean that one that we drove
just drove of Jordan's with the turbo
on it was even better
what you're identifying here
Michael is the price of fun
you want the driving experience
and I cannot guarantee you
that a 718 boxer spider
is going to be 82 percent
more fun than this
I'm not sure it'll be 50 percent
more fun than this
yeah agreed
so I'm wondering if you need to spend less
and therefore whatever you do buy
it's almost going to be throwaway
that sounds
crass
it sounds worse than you mean it
it's still real money
it's still a real car
still real money
but there won't be anything to stress
about I totally get it
yeah
but it'll be something
that you just gravitate towards
because you mentioned in Ohio
the driving roads
you mentioned weather
and it's getting bad
and then you're not sure
if you would drive it anyway
and it might only come out
for special occasions
because at 140,000 plus dollars
well
it everything's just got to be right
the sunshine's got to be out
the roads are clear and dry
and everybody's not busy
and we've got
you know the plan made
and it's got to be the perfect time
where's this
you can just jump in it and go
yeah true
true
there's a number of different cars
on my list
including I'm showing a 2023
JCW Mini Cooper
because they're just so much dang fun
they are
and also at supercoopers.com
look at you
you can find a classic Mini
with a D16 Honda VTEC engine
and at making 200 horsepower
note the license tag
and I think you would have
more fun in this
than a Boxster Spider
I
did that just
did I say that Lon
I might have said that
wow okay
this to me sounds like
the crazy hoot that you need
now
it's not convertible
but still I
yeah
I'm just wondering
about exploring Minis
because they are so much dang fun
they are
just
maybe it's not
100% more fun
maybe it's like
15% more fun
get fun in a different way
I also want something
lightweight for you
oh my gosh
I can't wait to pull this car out
this currently is still on
bring a trailer
it is a Porsche 914
that has been customized
and built
it's got a different engine in it
so it is very lightweight
it is very powerful
it is open top
manual tiny
and if you're going to treat this
like the special occasion car
that I think it's going to be
because you've got the F90 M5
then why not embrace something
a little bit older
like the 914
because I see how you got it
unique quirky
lightweight
I think thinking light
in all of these
hopefully you see that
through line
that will mean
everything about the driving experience
is going to be different
I mean
any of these boxers in 911
are lightweight-ish
the Amira is lightweight-ish
in modern cars they are
but in the grand pantheon of cars
they're still heavy
they're over 3,000 pounds
correct
compared to Miata's
and Minis and 914's
and I'm just wondering about a 356
now what I'm showing here
is from Schmidt.com
and they are a dealership
that deals in some really high-end stuff
I'm not suggesting
go get this $139,000
$356,000
take your money elsewhere
I am saying
get a replica
sure
I'm just showing this
an example
I prefer hard top
but most 356s
are exactly what you're looking for
so for 30 grand
40 grand
interesting yeah
there it is
convertible
unique
and you're not looking to go fast
and if you do something
that is $30 to $40,000
the convertible manual
that you and your wife can take
you do leave yourself open
for a track car at that point
because
us trying to solve everything
well it's a special occasion car
but what if I go track it
and what if something happens
and I'm not sure
that's the route for you
I'm saying it's the route for some people
fair yeah
but not for everybody
so I just show this
as a shining pinnacle example
in Smyrna Green
I love this car
I think I do want a 356
at some point in my life
the garage is deep
get the inexpensive replica
to satisfy this need
and leave yourself open
to some cool track car
like an 86
I'm going to keep going
the Z3
is interesting to me
yeah
we've got a friend
he's also a friend of the show
and he got the Z3
just a regular Z3
it was actually the car
that we were featured
in our $8,000 sports car piece
it's the red Z3
we bought that in Las Vegas
for five grand
he reimbursed us
because he wanted the car
and it's the car he drives the most
he just thrashes the thing
he's he's done everything it needs
which wasn't much
and drives it constantly
he told me Paul
those engines
if I blow the engine
I can find an engine
for like 1200 bucks
and drop it in
that sounds great
okay all right
he gravitates towards this thing
yeah
because it's just easy
it's fun
it's easy
it's lightweight
but if you want to spend
a touch more
how about a Z3M
with your kind of budget
you're not even spending half
and you're still in a Z3M
I think these are so cool
this is the car
that I would want over Miata
personally
yeah I know that you like it a lot
yeah
like these so much
they're very small
this has a lot of power
oh my gosh
so much fun
and this still doesn't have to be
your track car
still go find one for 30 40
maybe 50 grand
and you've still got room left
over some
for some clapped out Miata
track car
or 86 or something
and you've got two cars
and you've still spent less
I think on one hand
you're going to think
well if I don't get the super hot
amazing expensive sports car
I'm going to miss out on that
driving experience
yeah
maybe
yeah
but you've already got the GTS
4.0
which is an incredible driving
experience
and you know what that's like
and you're writing to us to say
I want something different
yeah I'm a little bored by it
yeah
yeah yeah
for sure you go
and then I'm going to spend
all of your money
and just say
enthusiast auto group
in Ohio
oh man
where you live in Cincinnati
yep
has an E30 M3
with 70,000 miles
in white
for only 140,000 dollars
so I'm going to spend all of your
money again
that's how much these things are
but they're awesome
but they're awesome
they're awesome
but no
now granted
that is those that they
always have the nicest BMWs
anyone's ever sold
yes
exactly
so okay
so here's the rear three-quarter
shot
and they're just superb
just like the one we drove
years ago
those are spectacular
spectacular
yeah they are really good
so enthusiast auto group
I'm
I'm sure you know about this
place
I mean it's a candy store
so go
look at their website
or go
actually to their showroom
because you can
and decide
but my money for you
my leaning
is a Z3M
I think
you don't have to spend a lot
you get exactly
what you're looking for
it's tight
it's compact
fun to drive
lots of power
it'll be the go-to car
the thing is gonna run
you won't mind
if it gets a little ding
here and there
if it's
whatever
it's a little dirty
and
and then some track car
for later
as you ease
into the track usage
because again
you already know
what that driving experience is like
and if we keep going
more expensive
higher in
more power
more more more more more
then we're at
ZR1Xs
and then suddenly
you'll find yourself
doing
one and a half second
zero to 60 runs
at an eight and a half
second quarter mile
and you'll think
this is not my life
this is not my beautiful car
this is not my beautiful house
how did I get here
yeah I agree
I agree
what's interesting about this
Michael is that
ultimately
without
consultant
because we never do
Paul and I went
some similar places
really
but I think the themes are
quite similar
I'm going to start
by thinking about
what you already have
you have this
Cayman
GTS40
I'm actually showing the one
that we drove
when we put it with the
Amirah
the first time we drove
in Amirah
we also had our C8
we did a big comparison
like that
it's on our channel
you can find it
and we happen to know
that the owner
that had this
at the time we drove this
perfect spec
except for silver
but it's still perfect spec
it's gorgeous
he has since sold it
and he sold it
because it wasn't
involving enough
I can think of two other people
we've heard of
that have sold this
brilliant car
because it wasn't
involving enough
because in their normal usage
they didn't get up
into the upper
reaches of what it can do
and so it just
it was to
you already talked about it
Michael
it was so competent
they weren't engaged enough
okay
and this is a problem
this is not a
Porsche problem
this is a problem
at cars
in cars at large
right now
it's very hard
hard to find a car
that feels like
it needs you
to
wrestle it
to make it work
to interact with it
it's just
it's perfectly happy
to just do it
and honestly
this started with the GTR
which is a car that
when it came out
was the world beater
but barely needs
a body in it
to be a world beater
okay so we've
we've gotten
cars have gotten
so good now
that it's really hard
to find something
that feels like
it's raw
and needs stuff
doesn't need you
and so what I'm
worried about here is
you didn't have enough
engagement here
and I'm now showing
the spider
the current spider
and
okay
so sexy
it's great looking
it's so
you end up
with a spider rs
you end up with
manual transmission
and you have the
the howling engine
and you have the dedicated
removable top
and the whole thing
the whole thing
but it's not
that far from what you had
with the exception
of the manual transmission
which will help
the exception of the
9,000 rpm
red line
the red line will help
yes
and the fact
there's open top
all those things will help
but it's not like
you bought something
totally different
now let's go
zero six
amazing
fantastic to drive
but does a really good job
most of the time
of just being
normal
handleable
you just drive it around
a normal road
it can
I mean it could
with the one we drove
was on the Cota trip
we were in the middle
of a road trip
it's no one and a half
second
1.67
it's not
you've got a
removable top here
which is great
it's a very easy
my wife loves
C8
it's one of her
favorite cars ever
she loves the one we had
she was sorry to
see it go
because it's just a great
car to take
in any occasion
you go super fast
you can just cruise in it
it's got a lot of space
the zero six is great
but outside of the
howling engine noise
the steering is mute
it's mute
it's very capable
it's so sharp
the power is fantastic
but the steering is mute
and you don't have
a manual transmission
to work with
I think this is
a different variant
of the same problem
so let's keep moving
because
the key thing
I hear here
is that
you have fast
you want involving
what you
haven't told us at all
because you keep running back
to Porsche
and you keep running back to
and I'm not coming down on
Porsches
but you keep running back to
cars that I think are
just off center
of the problem
you currently have
so we need to just
change the target
and what I'm going to
give you first off
and it's kind of where
Paul went
but I'll give you
first off
is not even a car
recommendation
I'm going to give you
a homework list
oh
before you buy Michael
I want you to drive
the things I'm about
to talk you through
GR86
and current Miata
now I also
I didn't do a picture
but you already did Paul
the NC third gen Miata
should be on this list
I agree
but the
GR86
the current 86
or BRZ
and the current generation Miata
go drive a
prior gen
the NC Miata
these are all cars
under 3,000 pounds
they aren't powerful
they aren't
but what they give you
is involvement
I don't think the 86
works for you
because it's not convertible
and I want you to have that
this is drive homework
I want you to have
that driving experience
drive one of those
drive both those generations
of Miata
while you're at it
I do think you should
drive in a mirror
if you can
drive the four cylinder
and the six cylinder
because
this is not a track car
that's a good idea
actually
this is not a track car
there's a part of you
that keeps like
toying with
I need two cars
gonna need to
have a track car
but
I don't get the impression
from what you've written
that you actually
are a guy that goes
the track very often
your guy that goes
track acacia
so the reality is
most everything
we're talking about
you can take the track
every hooked on driving
tractor you could come
you don't have to
have a super focus
no
and you can have a great time
so bring your normal
car that's the whole thing
that we do
at hooked on driving
so
I want you to drive
the Amir
because I think you'll
discover that is
not a track car first
I can track it
I have tracked it
it's great
I took it on Kota
took it on Sonoma
had a great day
but that is not
what it's really for
what it's really for
is grand touring
and driving on a
great back road
and all the stuff
we've done with
our awesome road trips
it's perfect for that
my wife
and I have so much
fun in this car
we're very comfortable
and it's great
driving it over here
is fantastic
I get to drive it
for groceries
it's wonderful
because it doesn't
have the sacrifices
of the Elise
yeah
but it is really fun
however
if you're picking
a Lotus product
and you have a choice
I'd rather you
drove an Elise
than drove an Amir
because what we're doing
right now
is driving homework
I think Michael
you have got to go
lighter than 3000 pounds
and ideally
you need to go
hydraulic steering
put that with manual
and convertible
and you start to get there
no assist
no assist in the
in the Lotus Elise
I don't think
this is the right car
for you and your wife
but
but it would be good for
him to know
what these feel like
and then just move on
so I think
my big question for you
Michael is
if you were to drive
everything I just listed
how do you feel
what's on your mind
because I think
I think
buying a couple of
Caymans
will not even be on the
board anymore
yeah
I don't think you'll
think about that
I think you're going to
be thinking totally
differently
and I think
I think I actually
have found your car
I don't know for sure
but hearing
everything we know
from what you
what you want
and everything I think
you need to experience
which is this lightweight
analog stuff
I can spend half your budget
maybe more than half
depending on the one you find
you don't want a 718 spider
you want the 987
Boxster spider
from 2011
these are less than 3000
pounds
watch the old
test drive
we drove of it
these are less than 3000
pounds
they have
hydraulic steering
they have different gearing
the issues you're having
the concerns you have
with the current 718
the concerns you have
with stuff not feeling
involving enough
but you keep gravitating
back to Porsche
this is your car
I love that you love these
these are so great
they are so great
they are so so great
yeah
Boxster spider
first gen
and these tops
are so obnoxiously difficult
you're never going to put it on
it is going to be
your dedicated convertible buddy
that's right
so I think this is your car
but I still really really
want to
really want to push into you Michael
and say
I think you need to do drive
homework of light
cheap stuff first
because I think
you're going to go
oh
this is where that involvement has been hiding
I think you're aiming too high
and too modern
and if you go back
cheaper
lighter
you're going to find it
and then you can go
what do I really want
and I think it's this
I think it's this Boxster spider
the first gen
that's pretty good
we almost need a prescription pad to
seriously
I have Dr. Handwriting
I do
I have terribly Dr. Handwriting
so I will start prescribing cars
that's what I'm going to do next
Dr. School of Handwriting
so we need to prescribe two Boxsters
and call us in the morning
or something
I guess
no just one
just one
don't buy two
don't buy
why are you buying two
two-card
no yeah
no don't do that
but at least
all right
that is excellent driving homework
you've heard from both of us
wishing you well in your search
everydaydriverTV at gmail.com
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this is where this gets odd
we have another car debate
from another Michael
and this Michael also has a 718 Cayman
so we're it's almost a duplicate email
to the point that Paul and I both checked
different email addresses
on different dates from different places
okay
pretty sure this is a different person
I mean there's enough similarities
to make us look twice
but this is where we are
in late September of 2025
he bought this 718 Cayman
a car he has wanted
since he saw the 987
the first day in 2006
the car ticks all the boxes
high revving naturally aspirated
mid-engine objectively beautiful
where he's located
the drivable weekends were few
and rapidly dwindled
as they approached the too cold
for a Pirelli P-Zero's weather
that happens
yes
because of this
he only put 800 miles on the car
before winter hit
he figured he'd be bummed
until it got warmer in April
and he wasn't
he didn't miss driving it
as he reflected on his time
with the car
he realized he had made a mistake
in not getting the 718 Spider
this is bizarre
but anyway onward okay
he skipped the manual
for a number of reasons
and upon reflection
none of them were very good
because the PDK is like magic
a boring kind of magic
do you see why we were confused
I mean the similarities
the coincidence is uncanny
the car is so precise
it's so easy
it's almost sterile
maybe the manual fixes it
maybe it doesn't
it's gonna involve you nor
but it's not
it's not less sterile
it really isn't
I hate to say that
but it's true
at a certain speed
at a certain window
then it gets amazing
and delightful
I've said this before
Porsches in general
if you're doing less than 80
it's really hard to be like
this is awesome
and except for 356's
which can't really go 80
no I'm talking
I'm talking modern Porsche
you'll buy modern Porsche
product right now
and below 80
it just feels
competent and easy
and above 80 you start to be like
oh there's magic here
but how often
are normal people
including us
regularly above 80
anyway onward
here's the quandary
Michael has a car he doesn't love
it was expensive
he says he does well
but not well enough
to light 100 grand on fire
and he's gonna get rid of it
the debate
isn't if he gets
the Amira
the 718 GT4 or Spyder
or the Corvette Z06
does he bother replacing this car
with anything
hang on hang on
I have to stop there
that's the question
the question isn't
what do I get
bother
do I even bother to buy
another fun car
that is a different conclusion
than the last Michael
the last Michael is
what I do with my money
first Michael then
this is this
yes this Michael
that also has the same car life
anyway it's amazing
he's just saying
I am so unimpressed
let's not that's not fair
I am so
unengaged with this car
is it even worth buying another
fun car
that is a different question
how does he get over the idea
that every option
is too much money
for too little engagement
he realizes
it's a dumb problem to have
but he has it
nonetheless
is there a reasonable chance
that he'll be disappointed
in any of the way too good cars
for him
cars that are out there
well sure
there is that chance
and you brought it up
not having a fun car
is on the table
yeah
not having anything
to replace it with
we don't know again
your driving history
your car ownership
what kinds of interest you want
all all we know is that
you wanted the fun car
and you would ostensibly
use it for fun car things
maybe some track days
theoretically
maybe some
but he has broken down
what he wants to do with it
I agree with you
but less than 800 miles
and that kind of shows
and he bought it late last year
and here's the thing
it's still currently away
for winter storage
the thing I find fascinating
about this email specifically
he just bought this car last year
he's riding to us
with the car currently
in winter storage
the new thing
the new shiny car
he should be wanting to drive
is in its first winter of storage
and he's already going
I don't miss it
and he knows he's going to sell it
he already says he's going to sell it
that's really crazy
as soon as the weather warms up
you'll be
I mean that's the time to sell sports cars
because you're at the start
of the driving season
and summer and you get that all
this is interesting
Michael I'm going to dive right in here
yeah do it
here's my here's my big thought here
I am not going to recommend a car to you
I'm going to ask you a question
that I don't think you haven't answered for yet
and that is
what do you want this car to do
the current Cayman
a mystery car to replace the Cayman
or no car at all
I don't think you know
I will add to that
with my own question
and that is
when you see this photo
Michael
so it's a fantastic windy road
we filmed on here in Utah
there's no cars on it
it's just road plus scenery
gorgeous
it's almost like a Rorschach test
it is
when you see this image
what do you think
I want to be somewhere else
I want to be boating on a lake
or doing anything else
seems like a nice place to park and take a hike
that's a pain to get through
I wish for a motorcycle
or I wish for a sports car
to go sample this
what do you think
when you see this image
interesting
that's good
that's good
I hadn't thought about that
but I just put this up
because this is a fantastic bit of road
and a great shot by chance
that we took during our C8 and R8 piece
okay
we're up on this road for that
and this is a great little bit of road
and he just so captures
all of the S curves on this section
and so that's why I wanted to put it up here
because I want to really ask you Michael
the second Michael
I want to ask you
what would you do with this car
if we found you the perfect car
are you going to take it on long road trips
are you going to take it to the track
are you going to just take it for groceries
I don't think you know yet
what you're going to do
because there's another thought here
if you sell your Cayman
that's currently sitting in winter storage
when you sell it
yeah exactly
would you be fine
would you be fine with the cars you have
and I cannot believe on this show
I'm recommending this
but ultimately
the core of what we do is
we want you to like the cars you drive
we want it to fit your life and your budget
Michael you might have all the cars
you need for right now
and we don't know what those are
we don't know what he currently
dailies or drives or anything else
look it could be just
you have a five-seat SUV egg in silver
and it works for your life
and that's fine
you could have a Prius
that has 200,000 miles on it
and all you do is commute in it
and that doesn't make you less of a car enthusiast
if that's enough car for your life right now
so this is why I want to have this question
because I don't have a car recommendation for you
I think it's time for you to stop and go
if I'm going to buy a event car
I'm not even going to say special car
because it's an event car
the event car could be a Cadillac with horns on the hood
it doesn't need to be a track car
it doesn't need to be a car
that necessarily is quote-unquote fun to drive
it could be you bought a $5,000 faton
because it's a laugh
a car to fill that part of your budget
and that part of your garage
what does it need to do
and if you get rid of this Cayman
which it sounds like you're going to
do you look at your garage and go
yeah I'm good
and if you are that's okay
that's weird for me to say
it's okay
because I know we're always like car car car
but the reality is you might be good
so I just want to encourage you to figure out
what's the experience you're looking for
and if it is here's a side note
just experience more than its car
then that's that thing you and I talk about
it's car travel
go somewhere that has roads
that are nothing like where you live
and rent something
and it doesn't need to be super hot
just something intriguing
something that interests you
I've always wanted to drive one of those
whatever it is
so then maybe you take this money
and it you don't buy a car all
you just put that money into experiences
that lead to you driving
but I'm willing to admit the fact
that you might even just want to do
experiences that don't have anything to do
with a car
I think what's happened
in both of these car debates
on paper
the Cayman GTS 4.0
is just it
you buy that car
there's no other car you'll ever want
and it's perfect
and everything's wonderful
and Doug DeMurro
I've heard the theory
so if you're writing in the comments
right now
Doug DeMurro has a theory that
Cayman is
Cayman GT4
GT4 I didn't see that happen
is peak car
and everything else you've chosen for a reason
because what you should have bought
was a GT4
I don't know that I agree with it
but I understand his logic
but Cayman GTS 4.0
is like the daily version of that argument
okay yeah
and here we have two people
that are like
yeah it's good
but maybe it's too good
and I'm not interested
so find out what you really want to do
Michael
with this car
do you need a car
and then let's shop
oh
so no recommendation
nothing at all
he's
nothing
he's got to ground himself
on
okay I'm gonna sell this
because you
here's the thing
both of you
but especially this Michael
we're talking about now
you bought this going
I'm gonna get this
and get this in my garage
I'm gonna drive it
just the birds are gonna sing
and the sun's gonna come out
and everybody's gonna cheer me
and I'm just gonna feel great inside
and it's gonna be wonderful
we've all had that thought
I'm not pointing it to you
and saying it's weird
we've all had that thought
I'm gonna get this car
it's just gonna be like
every where I go from the heavens
everywhere I go
it's gonna be amazing
doors will open
and he's driving it and just going
it's really good
and I almost
I almost read in your email
you're feeling guilty
that you don't like it more
it's like
shouldn't I love this
and it's fine
we want to absolve you of that guilt
absolutely
we do
because you're right
we preach car car car
we preach get the
sports car
but hopefully you've noticed
it's not just always get to the next
bigger batter
more expensive hotter horsepower
because
as that goes up
the preciousness factor goes up
the maintenance and the worry factor goes up
and then you go
oh why do I have this thing
yeah
but that experience is out there
it's like that perfect lap
it's out there
can you see it
yeah for sure
so I'm 100% with you
I think that's excellent advice
and I think you do need to take some time
to figure out what it is you want
but I'm still gonna recommend a car for you Michael
good I love it
still gonna come back to me personally
knowing what I know
and what I can extrapolate out of this email
I think you should go drive a Z3
because of the continual stories
and our own experiences
when that Z3 was in our lives
it was just sort of like
yeah it's just easy
it's true
it's fair
easy, small
very parkable
very fun
engaging
it's just no worries
and you just get to
yeah there's no pretense
there's no
I have to look a certain way
or do something with it
I can just go drive
and that's what is so great about Miata's
but in this case
Z3 is the answer
and what I'm showing on screen
is just a regular Z3
spend eight grand
and again
once some time has passed
I mean by mid-summer
will you feel the itch
I need something
I still need a
maybe little thing
he might yeah
but you don't want to spend the money
but you already know
what a GTS 4.0 feels like
yeah
I'm wondering
if you just go get a Z3
and then of course the Z3M
I just
I think these are so cool
I think
they have stood the test of time
when they came out
everybody called them camel nose
everybody was down on them
they were the bond film
when they came out
oh yeah
that's how they introduced them
and it was
not as
aggressive as people wanted
out of the styling
but I think it is aged
wonderfully
they aged very well
and they drive better than people remember
they really do
they're just so good
and it comes from an era
which I think we're all lamenting
we wish
was still around
just
give me a stupid car
give me something that has no
safety features
it's just manual
with a good engine
it's seats
it's tires
a steering wheel
some decent styling
give me something that
doesn't try to do stuff for me
give me a dumb car
it's good
yeah nothing wrong with a dumb car
that's starting to feel better and better
yeah
I still think
this is what I'm landing on for you
of course all the other options
that I suggested for
Michael number one
in the first email
because he's in the exact same boat as you are
all those apply
minis, meadas
all that fun stuff
and worth a drive
but I don't
I'm kind of with you
I don't know if driving homework is necessary
because these are also
so fun
you're just going to get it and be like
and then you'll remember
how little you spent
and be like
ah
that is the upside
even better
that is the upside for sure
thank you for writing to us
both of you
this is uncanny
it's very cool yeah
the emails came in
not too far apart from each other
a little over a week from each other
yeah yeah
that's weird
very
so
but cool
yeah
that just
I hope these emails
speak to other people
that I know
absolutely
are going through this too
yep
yep
we want you to aspire
and get the car
that you've been dreaming of
and hopefully
it is everything
but if it's not
you have
our permission
and hopefully you give yourself
permission
to move on from it too
that's okay
yeah
and go find something cheap
and you know
maybe this is
96% more fun
because
it's not the expensive thing
watch our price of fun film
again
because that really is
the headspace of Paul
and I live in
and even though we both have
what are candidly
our dream cars
I get into all kinds of small
light cheap stuff
and just go
yeah
and we're done
my my son's
$4,200 mini
is a fantastic car to drive
it looks cool
it's fun to drive
it shares garage space
with my near six figure
Amira
and it's not like
the Amir is awesome
I love it
but it's not like
I open the garage
I look at the mini
and I go
like okay
we could take the mini
it'd be fun
why not
we could take the mini
it's crazy
that that's the case
all right
we're moving on
to car conclusions
I got two quick car conclusions
look at questions
for you guys
this is a long podcast
but I love that
it's great
Jay is writing
and you might remember him
he was the guy
with the hammer
from the story about
yeah
with the hammer
but anyway
Jay with the hammer
yeah he's moving on
he recently bought
a 2013
328i convertible BMW
from a cousin
who was surrendering it
due to the BMW
demon of maintenance
and reliability
161,000 miles
three cracked wheels
every warning
like possible on the dash
so a full Christmas tree
the dealership
were only offering them
$1,600
so he and his minister
of fun
decided
she wanted a convertible
again
top work
the AC blue cold
so how bad could it be
the car has been
in their possession
for one month
of the last three
which means it's for two months
it's not been theirs
stuff's been getting worked on
here it is
it looks
there's the car
really surprisingly good
he said
the minister of fun
hasn't told him
where the financial costs are
but they think
they're into the car
for about nine grand
that's not bad for this car
okay
it's high mileage
well
new wheels right
the trick here is
you have a
where you are probably now
is you have a $9,000 BMW
that runs well
so it's almost like
you went out and bought a car
that you know runs well
for $9,000
okay
all right
so they had to get new wheels
so they aren't constantly
putting air into the tires
I understand that reality
but his wife
has said
it's a car
like the rich girls drove
in high school
which makes me laugh
and it's also funny
don't know if
any of you out there
how many of you
have seen the wicked movie
parts one and two
but
his wife
likes the fact
that they have a green
mini Cooper convertible
sorry green mini Cooper
electric called
Elfie
because it's green
and this car
the white one
is called Galinda
on the license tag
that's crazy
this is the good witch
that's a great one
I love it
I think that's fantastic
Andre M writes to us
he is in LA
back October 4th 2023
he says he thought
it was a car conclusion
he's leasing a 2023
mini JCW automatic
largely based upon our reviews
he says he loves it
five days out of the week
the other two days
not so much
because he's got three kids
Monday through Friday
it's just him and the car
driving faster slow
but then on the weekends
the kids don't fit
in the back seats
not even little kids
yeah he says he's considered
taking out the passenger seat
that's how bad the problem is
but they they love
zooming around in the car
of course they do yeah
but then Andre
just writes to us
with a conclusion
in December of 2025
and he bought a used
2020 mini countryman
John Cooper works all four
Rebel green black top
no stripes or decals
interior is British Oak
Chesterfield leather
the light brown
he says the power seats are awesome
he said he got it from Austin
salesperson at many of downtown LA
and his lease was running out
that we described
he was over as a lot of miles
he says he drove a five series
but this countryman was fast
300 horsepower able-bodied
love it
he said the luxury is very similar
to the JCW hard top
but there's real back seats
he misses the two doors
zip and burv
but life is easier with the countryman
kids love it
wife loves it
he loves it
I mean that's how you did
a car adjacent to what you were liking
but better fit for your life
I love that Andre
that's great
step into your future
with an all new series
Star Trek Starfleet Academy
being a cadet
means being open
to the people around you
I've spent my whole life
getting away from stuff
letting someone in
that's it's hard
I want to be captain
I need to be captain
Holly Hunter and Paul Giamatti's Star
you'll encounter challenges
your predecessor has never had to imagine
Starfleet Academy
new series now streaming on Paramount Plus
you guys send in a lot of good questions
you actually
were responding to the
silver
five seat
five door
Volkswagen Tiguan
those pictures were good
because we just released
the test drive for that piece
on our test drive channel
just this past Sunday
so that actually has just come out
but you guys responding to that
Kurt Meyer said
is it harder for company to go
upmarket or downmarket
seems like luxury brands
going down is hard
but also
what about mainstream brands
going up
that seems difficult too
Kirk I actually think it is easier
if they don't overshoot
for a brand to go up
then down
because what happens
is you get Lexus or Genesis
you get a brand you don't expect
does a car
they just put a car
at the top of their lineup
just above where their lineup normally is
but they try to compete
with the people that are
25% more expensive than them
and that becomes the selling point
so now look at
look at modern Lexus
okay that was Lexus whole plan
Toyota is releasing a luxury car
what are they doing
no toy nobody wants that from Toyota
what are we talking about
you can't compete with Mercedes and BMW
and yes they can
it was cheaper
it was well engineered
you got a lot for your money
you got
what felt like all the luxury the
German brands were giving you for less
you hang on long enough
I'm not saying that people look at that with parody
but Lexus is a legitimate luxury brand
nobody says they aren't
nobody ever goes oh Lexus is a terrible luxury brand
it's a good luxury
it might be your luxury brand
but it's a very good one
conversely I think when a luxury brand
goes down market
they get very concerned about
where can we cut costs
where can we make this
worth the price point
we're gonna have to sell it out of
and because they aren't used to thinking
that way they don't hide stuff as well
as the lower market brands do
you get in a Mazda 3
at $35,000 and you think
this is only 35 grand
you get in a Mercedes at $35,000
and you go whoa this was the low rents back
that's true
okay that's the problem
it's much harder to go down than up
on Facebook Jared Byer asks
if there's a car or car brand
that has our favorite lighting signature
like Porsche four points
or the Cadillac the vertical lines
I do love the four points of light
in the Porsche but that notwithstanding
you know what's cool is Genesis
especially their new concept cars
with the double line
and then one the top one goes
all the way across
it actually wraps
and then in the diamond shape
especially on some of their EV concepts
but it's that outline of the diamond shape
and it's so over the top and in your face
but it's very signature
and it is unlike
they managed to make it unlike
anything else
like it yeah
I think Genesis is killing it
I do love the C8 VET
I it just looks mean
it's just this check mark
yeah it's really cool
and you know what I'm liking
is the Neue Class BMW
I'm really looking forward to the new M3
and all the new BMWs coming out
with their new styling
they've kind of done it again
I think they're pretty
I think they've gone back
it's a good correction
great looking cars
I'm curious to see them up front
it's gonna be fantastic
it's just kind of a slash
but it's not overdone
but they've managed to make something
BMW signature again
which is hard to do
it's no longer the angel eyes
or past that
that's in the past
but yeah
there's there's good news coming
I'm excited to see that whole new lineup
and what that does to all their styling
Chip had a really good question
he's also asking specifically
about that Volkswagen Tiguan
and you've raised an interesting question here
you said wait a minute wait a minute
why did we drive
the 2025 Volkswagen Tiguan
and not a 2026 model
and why didn't we review
the higher horsepower
R-line turbo
this isn't necessarily about you Chip
you are speaking to a common misconception
and I want to talk to it again
there is
for as long as I've even paid attention to cars
I'm talking all the way back to when I was younger
than my son my teenage years
and I was reading car magazines
it's been ever since then
for as long as I can think of for cars
you will see a comparison test of cars
and there's this little innocuous sentence in there
about we wanted car X
and it couldn't come for reason why
okay
that hasn't stopped
and I'm talking these were when big car magazines
could call up any manufacturer
and be like we'd like one of those on Tuesday
and the car manufacturer said yes sir
that's gone also by the way
there is this misconception
that if you're going to review a car
you can call up somebody at the manufacturer
and go hi
I'd like this car from you please
with this spec and these options
I'd like it to be this color
and I need it on this day
none of what I said is actually how it happens
and poof it appears
none of it has happened
literally it is about
what do they have in the fleet
and what are they trying to push
so the reason we got a 2025
non-R model Tiguan
is because that's what they had in the fleet
and that's what they sent us
that's what they're trying to sell
and if we're doing our large comparisons
when we're doing our test drives
we take whatever shows up in the driveway
which we're thankful that the manufacturer
sent us stuff
it's awesome to do
we love showing that stuff to you guys
we'll have talking about all of it
we're thinking about putting
I mean you guys have asked
should we put
I'm going to ask again
should we have the test drives
coming back out as podcast
something we can talk about later
but I was wondering about it
because people have asked
anyway so
we review whatever they send us
and also if you guys have a cool car
and you're in the Salt Lake area
we'd like to drive your cool car too
we're taking tuner cars now as well
so all of that is the case
when we chase specific cars
is our comparisons
and we often still don't get
exactly the one we wanted
there is no car lot anywhere
where we get to take choice
we have our ideas
and then it's what car
do you have that you could get us
that's as close to that idea as possible
yes we'll take that one
on Instagram here
Imax062 asks for advice
to someone looking at getting into car sales
I saw this
specifically BMW
love this question
thank you for writing
I know what I want
it's hard to speak for the general public
but you are going to first be trained
by the dealership group
and they are going to have their way
of selling cars
and when they like to focus on
that training is vital
because you need to do the job
of course wherever you are
but as a consumer
if I don't know what I'm looking for
I kind of want to be sold
I don't mind being sold
if I feel like the salesperson
has their best
my best interest in mind
and is actually listening to my needs
if they will tell me
what are you going to use the car for
and that I don't feel like I'm being BSed
or upsold something
because BMW has all these different packages
with different trim levels
if you can make your customers
feel like you guided them to
the sweet spot
not just adding on every package
and uploading
you know
upcharging everything
and making this fully loaded car
with things they might not really want or need
ask them about
what kind of driver are you
where are you going to be going in this
what kind of driving experience
do you want to come away with
that's all good
try to get to the crux of
why BMW
why this badge
what brought you to BMW specifically
and sometimes you're going to encounter people
who are very knowledgeable
and come in
and they know exactly what they want
make it easy for them to give you money
open up the door
clear the path
if that's what you want
let me find you that
yeah
don't try to steer them away
or you know what
here's what I really think
well they already know what they want
when you know what you want to buy
you don't want the salesperson
at best buy
turning the package over
and reading to you
about the hard drive
that you're about to buy
like I can read
when you have somebody
don't read the powerpoint back to them
don't read me the back of the box
tell me something interesting
engaging
you know what
here's where these are built
and the reason they're built there
is because of this reason
and you know what
this is brand new
and the people on the assembly line
love making this
and you know
whatever that is
it needs to be real
you're not BSing people
but give them some connection
to the brand
and why BMW
and have you been to Germany
and have you driven on the Autobahn
and have you been to BMW
world
and you know
engage them and pull stories
so they real start to feel connected
to the brand
and like
they want to be a part of the family too
and you know what
BMW has great stuff for families
and let me show you those
and you know
this feature over here
is really excellent
because kids like this
and it keeps them entertained
or you know
parents like this feature
because it keeps the kids entertained
or something
you know
really find out the crux of the usage
just like you and I do
when we try to dig in
what are you using the car for
not just
some dealerships just say
just get ready to
have money poured into your bank account
and cars are just going to sell
and you don't have to do anything
and you need to be knowledgeable
I like this
I'm going to go a slightly different area
even though all that stuff is very good
I think
look
I'm going to add
I'm going to be very biased
to what I would like
when I go to a car dealer
okay
they
the people you go to work for
let's say it's BMW
let's say it's somebody else
wherever you go to work for
they're going to tell you
how to sell their product
they're going to tell you
you said it already
they're going to tell you the way they sell
and the things that they don't talk about
and things we do talk about
all that kind of stuff
and I can't fight that
that that's fine
whatever you do don't say
but but here but
here's the thing I'm going to say
I'm going to be biased
and it may be completely against
what the dealership group will tell you
but I'm going to say this
I would like you and your free time
to drive as many of the competition
to the BMW cars as you can
go to other dealers
and drive them
because
what what I find
it's the business and gimbals thing
from back in the day
what I find annoying
is if I'm talking to a sales person
at a car dealer
or any other product
and they operate with blinders
like no other products exist
and if you bring them up
they'll just
they'll just talk about their product again
Mercedes we don't say that word
we all know other cars exist
we all know these cars
on the lot have competition
and I'm not saying
get yourself informed
so you talk people out of your cars
you're trying to sell a car
I get it
but if you are knowledgeable enough
to say oh so
the x7 versus the Mercedes GLS
that you've driven both
you can tell
you're going to know all the reasons
why the x7 is great
but what if you knew a way
the GLS was better
but I still think you should get the x7
because of these things
I bet you they're going to buy a car from you
yeah versus you just
continuing to stay on brand
and on product
if you show you've got some sort of
broader awareness
I think the person you're talking to
is going to trust you more
that's what I was
I just want you to have driven other stuff
so you can be like
I know where this fits in the market
we're saying it does this
it does almost that
but it's still great because of
I don't know the rest of that sentence
anyway
guys thank you so much for all your questions
this was a long one
but definitely worth it
we really appreciate it
and let us know what you think at the comments
you know what
is a wheel drive dumb
is it bad
is it
we're going to hear about it
I hope we do
it's Pepsi Coke
it's red blue
it's all the things
it is all the things right now
throw it down
for sure
all right
well until next time
we really appreciate you listening
watching share the podcast
rate and review us
don't forget the rating and review us
it's very helpful
and you know
come on these adventures with us
we want to get out and drive
enjoy these amazing roads
and have an adventure
really appreciate you watching
till next time
cheers everyone
About this episode
A lively discussion kicks off with the announcement of Ford's 2026 Dark Horse SC, featuring a powerful V8 engine, and Honda's innovative base station travel trailer. The hosts dive into a car debate about all-wheel drive systems, with a listener expressing frustration over their Hyundai Santa Fe's performance. The conversation shifts to two listeners grappling with their Porsche Caymans, contemplating whether to stick with them or explore alternatives like the 718 Spider or Corvette Z06. The episode wraps up with insights on car ownership, driving experiences, and the importance of finding the right vehicle for personal enjoyment.
0-60 time
2.5-liter turbo
5.2 liter V8
aerodynamics
all wheel drive
automatic transmission
Bugatti
carbon fiber wing
decibel
EV
Audi Quattro
BMW 3 Series
BMW M3
BMW M5
BMW New Class
BMW Z3
Buick Gran Sport
Chevrolet Corvette
Ferrari F430
Ferrari FF
Ford Mustang
Ford Mustang GTD
Honda Passport
Hyundai Kona
Lotus Elise
Lotus Emira
Lucid Air
Mercedes-Benz GLS
Mini Classic
Mini Countryman
Nissan GT-R (R35)
Porsche 356
Porsche 911
Porsche 914
Porsche Boxster
Porsche Cayman
Subaru Outback
Toyota Prius
Toyota RAV4
Volkswagen Tiguan
Original notes
The guys wrestle with a Topic Tuesday from Adam W., who is angry at his AWD system. Is AWD a safety feature, or is it made irrelevant with modern tires that are correctly suited for the job? Then, the guys debate two coincidental stories that are so similar they could almost be written by the same person. For Car Conclusions, Jay with the hammer is back with a report, and André in LA loves MINIs so much it’s a good thing they got bigger.
Audio-only MP3 is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and 10 other platforms.
Look for us on Tuesdays if you’d like to watch us debate, disagree and then go drive again!
00:00 - Intro
00:29 - Ford Mustang Dark Horse SC Revealed
02:48 - Honda Base Station Prototype Announced
10:04 - Corvette ZR-1X: The New YouTube Car!
18:18 - Topic Tuesday: AWD Is Dumb
49:15 - Nationwide Events With EDD and HOD
54:19 - Car Debate #1: Mistakes Were Made!
1:18:56 - Car Debate #2: Should I Even Bother To Buy Another Fun Car?
1:32:52 - Car Conclusion #1: Jay, The Crazy Person With The Hammer
1:34:47 - Car Conclusion #2: Swapping MINI For MINI
1:36:15 - Audience Questions On Social Media
Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, and subscribe to our two YouTube channels. Write to us your Topic Tuesdays, Car Conclusions and those great Car Debates at [email protected] or everydaydriver.com
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Everyday Driver Car Debate
Everyday Driver
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