AWD Is Dumb, The Cayman Catastrophe, Should You Bother About What’s Next? | Episode 1,029

At Sierra, I discovered top workout gear at incredible prices, which might lead to another discovery.

Your headphones haven't been connected this whole time.

Awkward.

Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices.

Sierra, let's get moving.

Welcome back, everybody.

Happy Tuesday.

Yet again, we are back with yet another podcast of everything.

There's actually a lot of news up front.

Yeah, there is.

Two very similar car debates, frighteningly similar from two different people,

two different emails wrote in and we went, really?

The similarities.

It's shocking.

So there's that good actual topic Tuesday in front of that that gets me down the road into tires,

which is just my little side thing.

So we're doing that.

We're talking about that.

Your questions, lots of stuff.

So let's dive right in.

We've got news up front from Ford who has announced the 2026 Dark Horse SC that was

announced just yesterday as of this recording.

It has the V8 from the Mustang GTD.

I'm wondering if Ford has decided that the GTD is not for everybody.

And maybe more people want a piece of the GTD.

They have to know that.

And so they invented a new Dark Horse version and have tested it apparently at Sebring and VIR

so that it uses the GTD engine, that 5.2 liter V8.

They have not announced horsepower.

They said it's somewhere between 500 and 815.

Which means it's somewhere between the standard Dark Horse that you buy and the GTD.

That's nice.

Of course it is.

Powerful, fast, and I'm guessing probably way about the same as the GTD.

I hate to say it.

It's just a heavy car.

I don't know that they've solved the way.

It's a 4,000 pound car.

But what I do like is the styling is better than the GTD.

I think the front clip, the front end on this car looks actually better than the GTD.

The GTD is of course bewinged.

It's its own animal.

And bearrowed and everything that needs to happen.

But it has GT3 derived components.

And the pricing is somewhere between $70,000 and $300,000.

Guys, we made a car between the two cars we make.

The power is going to be between the two cars we make.

And the price is going to be between the two cars we make.

Stay tuned.

Watch this space for more.

Yeah.

Apparently this is really for people who will genuinely track their Mustang.

Even though I think there's a lot of people who already do.

Sure, yeah.

Aerodynamics was a big factor in the development of this car.

So much so that the GTD engineers learned some things on the aero testing.

It's my understanding.

And here it is shown on track.

It actually looks quite good.

I just keep thinking this is a big, heavy car.

But I do want us to drive it.

I agree.

I keep trying to temper my, I think it's too heavy kinds of thinking with when I drive it.

Will I care?

Will you care?

Will anybody care?

Fair, fair.

It also has got, yeah, there's the carbon fiber wing in the back.

So a little bit different than even the GT3 version of it or the GTD and carbon wheels.

Look at these babies.

Oh, do not curb those.

Yeah.

Those look expensive.

Wow.

But gives you a little bit of weight savings right there.

Yeah, sure.

I suppose.

And the corners where it matters.

I get it.

Yeah.

Moving on to Honda who has revealed their base station travel trailer.

Now this particular launch event was what brought us to the LA Auto Show.

And thanks to Honda, they did pay our way to the LA Auto Show in particularly for this

press reveal.

And now we can talk about it.

They had us to their Honda America's design studio.

They're, they're building right there in Torrance, California.

And we were among many journalists who showed up.

You can see everybody kind of standing in the background to show off their base

station prototype, which means Honda being the purveyors of all this different forms

of transportation.

They, they really dig that.

Oh yeah.

For sure.

And exploring all kinds of different forms.

They, and they love making a big deal about how broad they are.

Yes.

It's not like, it's not like we do cars, we do cars, by the way, there's other stuff,

but we do cars.

No, it's like, look at everything we do.

Don't you want one of our cars?

That's really how they play it.

You know, we were told that nobody in the trailer industry has really brought

car design thinking or really in particular design thinking, industrial design thinking

to this market.

And in some sense, I have to agree just simply because the materials for most travel

trailers are just sides.

They're just boxes.

It's barely walls.

And yeah.

Watch, watch any time that Top Gear raced caravans or RVs and crashed them into

each other, you see how flimsy and thin they are.

And here's the other crazy thing while you're bringing it up.

This is why to this day, the most stylish trailers on the planet are

Airstreams from the 60s because nobody bothered after that.

They were just like, well, that's done.

So let's just make a box.

And you could always play the game on those diesel pushers, headlights and taillights.

The fun game is to figure out which car and truck those headlights and taillights

came off of.

And I've seen they're so huge.

They'll double stack and invert.

They'll flip the taillights.

So it's a double stack.

Like that looks weird because it's so expensive to make custom headlights,

taillights.

So here is this travel trailer, the base station prototype.

It follows Honda's signature man maximum machine minimum kind of

thinking designed to fit into a garage space, a standard space where

you would park your car inside, of course, towed behind a passport here

or a RAV4 or an EV.

But they said, any Honda product is where we think you should tow it behind.

So in the studio, they actually showed it.

They displayed it right here, hooked up to the the passport.

And the accessories include an air conditioner, an external shower,

an external kitchen with running water and induction cooking.

So you can see on this side of the travel trailer

is where you would plug those accessories into the side of the trailer.

And then just a quick glimpse into the back.

It's pretty basic.

So you could store other vehicle bikes and motorcycles

and whatever you've got to got with you on the on the camera.

Your adventure gear.

I mean, here's the reality of what they've done.

You know what this actually guitar hangs here?

Beanies in the cubby.

Beanies are down there.

Honda is frankly the best in cars about figuring out cubbies

and places to put stuff.

And just you can you can hide your stuff away.

This at first glance is pretty minimal.

But it's these it's these modular side panels

that completely change how this works

and give you option for cooking or AC or all these kind of things

that you've talked about.

It's amazing.

And some of the ideas they haven't even shown yet

for what's going to go into these modular portals.

I mean, essentially we've got three vertical windows aside.

And those windows are modular for you to stick other things onto.

So you can kind of customize this trailer to your liking.

I actually think what this kills.

And these have been around I feel like since the dawn of man

certainly since the dawn of cars.

It's the half pop ups.

The really tiny pop ups on the two wheels.

And they're just they're half.

It's just a half box.

And the top half is this flimsy part that pops up.

This is actually where this kills.

And if you if you've been living in that world

and I feel like those haven't been redesigned

since somebody thought them up.

Nobody's done anything to those.

OK, caveman invented them.

Seriously.

They had their caveman invented the wheel

and created a half pop up.

But we were done.

I mean, so now Honda's come along.

I mean, this isn't for everybody

because it isn't very big and it is pretty minimal.

But there's versatility here.

And the modular reality of it could make it cool.

I'm not the buyer.

But anytime I see one of those half trailers

from here forward and be like that has been surpassed.

Somebody has shown up and shown you what to do.

Got to get past that.

Yes, we do.

So you'll also notice that it uses

actual automotive wheels on the trailer itself.

And also OK.

So here's the kitchen again.

So the fold out kitchen with sink.

And you can hook up generator.

You can hook up power.

But the ring, the LED ring around the windows on the side

can be used for exterior lighting or it can dance to the music

and pulse to the music for your little campsite dance party.

Or you can see it lit up here in blue.

You know the fact that Honda identified a sales market

and thought we can make money in that market speaks volumes.

I mean, it's got a pop top as well.

I mean, there's options here.

I mean, for those of you that can't see what we're showing,

imagine just a straight single car trailer in black.

And above that is like a rounded off rectangle in white

with an LED ring on either side and three windows aside.

That's really all it is.

And they have the pop top and they have these modular sides.

I mean, there's options here.

I'm very curious to see one of these in the wild

and to hear what people actually think of them

when they start using them.

We weren't able to climb around inside it

because, again, it was a bunch of grubby journalists

and we were all, you know, there's way too many of us

to try to attack this thing.

So we all ran around, it took photos.

I'm intrigued that Honda has entered this space

with this very well thought out thing.

I think what comes of it is still very much TBD.

Yes, agreed.

So right now it's just called the base station prototype

because I think they're still gauging market reaction

even though they've identified a market

and thought we can go make money in that market

because nobody's really bringing Honda design thinking.

And they are the kings of the cubbies

to figure out how to package space.

And if anybody doing this, it should be Honda.

Yeah, fair point.

So we'll go to base station one

and then they can upgrade it with base station two

and then they can do a larger one called base station plus.

Double axel.

I don't know.

Triple axel.

This is not my world.

Grow to the.

Not my world.

Because then they've got all the power sports,

all the Honda motorcycles and UTVs,

all those that fit in the back.

And I have to look, I'm going to be very candid.

It'll be a huge family of products.

Totally transparent right now.

We have good friends at Honda.

Thank you to those of you that are listening.

We have good friends at Honda.

Good to us.

Yes, absolutely.

There was a span of kinds of journalists there,

including folks that just do trailers,

including folks that just do travel.

I'm not, they don't need cars at all.

People that do all kinds of like,

you know, packaging and home stuff

and they were there and then us.

So when our Honda friends came over,

when this had been revealed and said,

what do you think?

I was all I could do to not say,

you know what we do, right?

I mean, it's nice to be here and it's cool.

But this is not our thing.

Okay.

And the folks that do, and there's some good coverage,

but some folks that do like travel trailers,

this was like Mardi Gras.

I mean, they were excited.

It's got lights.

Seriously, seriously.

And you and I were like, it's cool.

It's cool.

It's very cool.

It is cool, but it's not really what we do here.

So anyway, but cool that Honda had us out either way.

One more bit of news.

You've probably seen it.

This is what we do here,

but I am astonished by what I'm about to show you.

I cannot believe we're going to have this conversation,

but let's go there.

I'm sure you saw all of the photos of the Corvette ZR1X,

which we've already beat to death.

Look at the cameras all over this thing.

Yeah, of course, which you've already beat to death

because we think it's a bad name,

but the X means all-wheel drive.

Sure.

So the ZR1X was tested recently,

festooned with cameras.

Okay.

Spikes of cameras.

This did a 0 to 60 in 1.68 seconds.

So that's not like under two.

That's like almost one and a half.

I want to go ahead.

I mean, as we're talking about,

this is closer to one and a half than it is to two seconds.

I'm not good with numbers,

but that's how they work out.

Okay.

1.68 seconds, 0 to 60.

And an under nine second,

like a nine and three-quarter second,

pardon me, eight and three-quarter second,

quarter mile.

It's quicker than many bikes like street bikes.

That is okay.

I don't know hardly anything.

About drag racing.

But I do know enough to know this.

If you break 10, you're a big dog.

Anything that gets under 10

is a genuinely fast car on the drag side.

Low nines are a huge respect.

This is handily under nine.

That's insane.

I just, and I have to say this,

look, this is incredibly impressive.

This is Corvette doing yet another throw down there,

talking, shows the quality of traction of all-wheel drive,

even though I think it's interesting in this photo,

the rear wheels are spinning

and the front wheels are just sitting there,

because they're electric powered.

I think that's pretty funny,

because this is an all-wheel drive car.

This could just be the warm-up shot.

But why aren't the front wheels spinning?

That's my point.

Oh, true.

Anyway, so the front wheels just sitting there,

because, well, they're electric.

They're not going to do anything

until you really put your foot in.

I don't, who knows.

I'm sure there's a reason why,

but I just think it's funny

that the all-wheel drive car is spinning just the back.

But anyway, so there's that.

But the other thing about all of this is just,

I'm going to go there.

This would not be fun.

Just physically.

This is a speed at which you're going to survive it,

not enjoy it.

It's going to be that thing

where when you take your foot off the gas,

you go, it's that kind of thing.

Yes.

This is not like we,

I mean, I can't believe how fast I am.

This is that shock you get

when you're on one of those magnetic powered roller coasters

and you do takeoff.

People scream because the air got pushed out of them.

It's that instant takeoff.

That's a great point.

I am very impressed by this,

but I don't look at this.

I know this sounds crazy.

Some of you are shaking your head at me.

I know you are, but I don't think,

I don't hear any of this and think,

I'd like to try that.

I think, cool that it doesn't,

but I don't need to do that.

That's a shocking amount of speed.

It makes me think about what's next

because that's the biggest thing

for any car manufacturer is,

what's the model after this?

What do we do after this?

What do we do to improve?

Where do we go from here?

Driveability, comfort, style, speed, power, for years,

no car manufacturer has been able to touch this.

Then the electrics came along,

which makes me think of the Mercury Sperling, the Sperling.

Sperling, yeah,

which also doesn't look like it's fun to drive.

No, if you haven't watched

Henry Ketchpool's review of the Sperling around tracks,

I don't think he was having fun.

He looked to be in pain.

And the whole point with speed like this

is don't hurt the humans inside.

We are reaching that place.

Yes, we are.

Because should the next one be 1.4, 1.2, sub 1,

and then we've achieved what, bigger sales numbers?

Yeah, I mean, it's all bragging rights.

For what purpose, what reason?

And is it faster around a track

because it can do a drag race

or a quarter mile in that speed?

No, not necessarily.

Not necessarily, but in tracks

where you can do some running,

you are going to astonish people.

Does it sell more cars

because the numbers got lower?

Sadly, probably.

Does it work with the hypercars?

Because now everybody's comparing this

to all the Bugattis and the Ferraris

and you name the car.

This is faster for a quarter million

instead of three million.

Yeah, for sure.

And it's better, it's better, better, better, better.

I think of that McMurtry.

By the way, the decibel output of the Sperling

is 120 decibels.

That exceeds pretty much every track in the U.S.

that we can think of as far as the decibel limit.

No, some of Florida doesn't have it.

120, you're right, is because most of them are 103.

Most of them, I guess C-Bring in Florida

doesn't really have a decibel limit

and there are a handful of others.

But still.

But there are tracks that give you

waiver days for racing

and that kind of stuff.

Fair.

But this becomes a car that you cannot come

and floor it at most racetracks anywhere.

The electric is too loud.

Uh-huh, yeah.

And then it's too fast.

It hurts the humans.

You could hurt yourself.

You could make your brain slosh around

and hit the sides of your skull.

We're getting into test pilot,

like astronaut kind of levels of force.

Does it sell more cars?

Sadly, it probably will.

You think so.

To the right people, I hate to say it,

but I think to the right people, that matters.

But they'll never go experience it.

They'll never really go do this because the drag race,

that'll hurt my car.

That'll wreck my tires and hurt my car.

They want to be able to say they have a car

that does it, not that they want to do it.

And look, I actually now have it in front of me directly.

The quarter mile time is almost eight and a half.

It's 8.675.

That's unbelievably quick.

It's staggering.

And I think, I actually think that the average,

look, I don't travel in drag cultures.

I know this.

So I'm speaking out of turn,

but I don't think most people at the drag strip

want to buy a car that fast.

They want to make a car fast.

That's interesting.

They want to build it to be that fast.

The average person that,

even if they have the money,

is going to buy a ZR1X

because what they do on the weekend

is go to the drag strip.

I don't think so.

I think the guys that have done it with Teslas

have enjoyed not being in the culture

showing up in the Tesla and blowing people away

because the drag culture,

in my minimal, very minimal experience with it,

is look at how fast I got my car to go.

And this is just like out of the box,

hurt everybody and yourself,

including the driver, and we're done.

Good news, everybody.

Welcome to the new YouTube car.

This versus the farm truck.

This versus the Tesla.

This versus the Lucid Air Sapphire.

This versus anything.

You know all those videos are forthcoming.

And you do the stagger with it.

Like this is how much farther ahead it is,

so then you see if they catch it.

They'll still catch it, of course.

Absolutely, yeah.

So all those, it's the new YouTube car.

The question is, do we think Dodge is going to have a word?

Do we think they're going to weigh in with

the next whatever that's going to be a combination?

Is Dodge going to take this sitting down?

They take a demon and it just comes into full Satan.

It's just Satan is coming.

Coming to the track.

Yeah.

What is Dodge going to do?

That's my big question.

What is Ford going to be like you guys?

You guys should have that.

I do have to acknowledge that there was a Dodge demon on a day

that did a 1-6-6.

So we're in demon territory.

But I just, I cannot believe this is a thing

that you can walk into a dealership with money and buy.

That just, I would like to drag that fast, please.

I would like to do zero to 60 under two.

It hurts me thinking about it.

That's how much I think it hurts.

Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just

speaking into the void?

But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the

right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them.

In fact, you can even target buyers by job title, industry,

company, seniority, skills.

And did I say job title?

See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers

with LinkedIn ads.

Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit

for the next one.

Get started at linkedin.com slash campaign.

Terms and conditions apply.

See how prices are trending and know if you found a good deal.

You can also create search alerts and lists of saved searches

so you can find your perfect spec even easier the next time.

Today's topic Tuesday comes to us from Adam W.

who is angry at a car he likes.

This didn't go where I expected.

I thought we were going to talk about I bought something.

I thought I was going to love it.

And now all it does is break and let me down.

That's not what we're going at all.

Well, Adam recently bought his first all-wheel drive

family vehicle because he's expecting his first child

as of this email.

And by the time we are reading it now,

that child should have been born.

Probably, yes.

Adam, congratulations.

Very cool.

The car enthusiast in Adam is upset and his knives are out.

Yes.

He's not upset at the car, which is a 2023 Hyundai Santa Fe

Limited that he's quite happy with and would go as far as

calling it his fate and moment where he learns that driving

something that's comfortable and tech heavy can be its own

kind of rewarding experience.

Not the same as fun, but.

It isn't.

It's a brain shift.

Okay, fair enough.

But he's upset that he confirmed everything he previously

knew about all-wheel drive without ever having owned

an all-wheel drive vehicle, which he thinks is marketing

drivel.

Okay.

Adam acknowledges there will be some nuance in certain

situations of how respective all-wheel drive systems from

different companies will behave.

Yes.

They fundamentally don't seem to do anything once you get

moving.

And in Adam's opinion, that is a problem.

Okay.

On his Hyundai, Adam watches the digital display showing

how power is distributed to each wheel and tire.

And once he gets above 35 miles an hour, the system

rarely, if ever, sends any power to the rear wheels.

And that's common.

That's very common.

Your average five-seat SUV all-wheel drive is

essentially a front-wheel drive vehicle that occasionally

in the right, the weather's right, the temperature's

right, your throttle application is right.

It fires something to the back wheels until it

decides, okay, that's enough.

And it also tries very hard to stop sending power

to the rear wheels as soon as possible.

Yes.

Because all of the efficiency and everything that

works correctly is up front.

In the name of efficiency, there's the same reason

your automatic transmission hunts for top gear as

soon as you get moving and the car bogs down and

you have to stab the throttle.

Anyway, speaking of that, if Adam stabs the

throttle on an on-ramp and he gets a lovely wave of

torque from the 2.5-liter turbo, but he looks

at the display, the rear tires got power for

less than a second, almost like the computer

wants to make sure the traction control system

doesn't need to wake up to reign in the

madman behind the wheel, known as Adam.

Yes.

Then all the power is fed exclusively through

the front tires.

So now he's carrying around a couple hundred

pounds of extra weight to make starting off

easier.

And he has to pay extra maintenance costs just

so we can have a system that gives him some

amount of false confidence.

What's the point, he asks?

Adam, I am so excited about this and you

may not realize it, but you were so deep

into fighting words here with what you're

sharing.

It's just fantastic.

I love it.

In snow, he says your tires and ground

clearance are going to be far more

important than any all-wheel drive system.

He doesn't care what any upstate New York

bumpkin has to say about that.

Wow, he's just elbows out, man.

That's Adam, not me, not us.

Wow, all right.

OK.

He says if you feel like you need all-wheel

drive for snow, that's fundamentally a

skill issue.

Oh, I mean, this is just, this is,

this is not a topic Tuesday.

This is the start of a bar fight.

That's really what this is.

Yeah.

He doesn't see how all-wheel drive

offers any meaningful benefit in rain

that traction and stability control

didn't already provide.

If you're going off-road regularly

enough for it to be a purchase

consideration, he says you need a

four-by-four, not an all-wheel drive

vehicle.

If you're off-roading, I do agree with

that.

You're off-roading?

Yeah, absolutely.

While there's argument to be made for

hyper-specific scenarios like rally

cross, the all-wheel drive systems

used in those vehicles are nowhere

near similar to what you're getting

from manufacturer-producing road-going

vehicles, so you end up overpaying

for a feature that's nothing more

than a marketing exercise.

Obtality.

This is exciting.

Plus, brands at different price

points have tried to market an

identity on their all-wheel drive

systems from Subaru to Audi, and

Adam is actually angry that he

bought into the hype.

So just as a side note, if you're

just, if you just need to vent,

we're here.

We're here.

We get those emails.

Adam has clearly written one of

them.

We might turn it into a topic

Tuesday, but there are those of

you out there that are harboring

like what the heck is up with

this.

We get those emails too.

This is one of the first ones

we talk about, but I really,

really like this.

He says this also brings us to

all-wheel drive performance cars

where he understands that it's

quote brand insurance.

No, it's actually it's customer

safety to have to have a 600 pound

600 horsepower plus car.

Your hyper cars, all-wheel drive,

because let's be honest,

you're protecting your buyer

for the next time.

He understands that exists.

Yes.

But he's sitting there going

if it's going to be that fast.

Look, we just talked about the

ZR1X all-wheel drive.

Yes.

He's like, what about the power?

Yeah.

What about actually learning how

to drive that?

He's asking that question as

well. So all of this is him

sitting here going,

would you guys please unpack

this under the category of

his all-wheel drive necessary?

And Adam, I'm going to step

carefully here for a little

while and then I'm not.

But I'm going to start some

place really interesting.

Okay.

And that is the last time you

and I got onto an all-wheel

drive rant.

And I'm sure I probably read

led the charge.

But the last time we did,

I posted that clip of the

podcast as just a short,

just a little comment of where

you and I like as an aside

in a different conversation

talked about the fact

you don't need all-wheel drive,

you need proper tires.

The comments on that short

were widespread and fascinating.

And there were some comments

on that short.

I don't know if you people

saw this, but some people,

some comments on that short

where people were literally

saying that you and I were

being irresponsible to suggest

that people would not get

benefit from all-wheel drive

and to not promote all-wheel

drive is superior.

We were actually giving

bad advice.

There were comments like that

in there.

And there were other people

that were actually followers

of ours that were saying

Todd and Paul have driven

enough things and are good

enough drivers

that they can get away with it,

but the rest of us need

all-wheel drive.

So what I'm saying here is

this is one of those

Pepsi Coke left versus right.

This is one of those

volatile topics.

And it seems benign to me.

But that short,

I kind of thought so,

but that short taught me

that you right now

listening, watching,

you have thoughts.

You have thoughts.

Okay.

You feel very deeply about this.

And I want to unpack it

at length under one title,

but I want you to go for a bit,

but my title,

my headline for this

is the benefit,

the value,

where this works,

where it doesn't,

all comes down to

you have four little

contact patches

and that is it.

But where'd you go?

The car on screen

is a 2021 Santa Fe.

So this is also similar

to Adam's 2023.

The styling did not change

until 24, I believe.

And then they made the box one.

So then they made the box.

So here it is,

that Santa Fe.

And we've driven this

and it was fine.

It was just fine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I have noticed Adam

on many cars,

Hyundai's included many cars,

give you that little graph.

They give you the little

digital instrument panel

showing how torque is thrown around.

I don't think that's

something you should be watching

when you're mashing the gas

or even just,

but why did manufacturers

decide to make an infographic

and actually show their customers?

You who bought it,

they show the customer,

here's what's happening

to throw power around.

See, we're safe.

See, we're proving it.

Well, and how correct is that?

That's the other thing about it.

Thank you.

That was where I was going next.

But I have no idea

if that's correct.

The front wheel show

like they're taking most of the traction.

Okay.

Little bit of back wheel spin.

But if there is any situation

where the rear wheels

do need to really fire up,

you're not going to be paying

attention to that gauge.

You're not going to be wondering,

well, is the car going to be safe?

Is the car going to save me right now?

Right.

You're right.

Yeah, I'm wondering.

Most cars these days

are definitely designed

to be front wheel drive first

to absolutely Adam.

I agree

to put safety first, I guess,

to for most,

the common denominator that I'm saying

of most drivers

is to not hit anything.

When drivers talk about being safe

and I'm a good driver,

first of all,

have you met any drivers

that will admit to you

that they're bad?

Have you met anybody that would say,

That's very good.

I'm not a very good driver.

I actually do have a friend.

You would always say,

do you want to drive

because I'm not that great at driving?

And I was like, honesty,

this is amazing.

And by the way,

Paul will say yes to that

every single time.

I will take you please.

He will absolutely be happy

to do that for you.

Yes.

He is a rare person,

but he admitted,

I'm not a good driver,

but for the most part,

do any of us admit

that we're bad drivers?

Because I think there is a huge

difference between

steering around the earth,

just steering around

and not hitting

anything,

not pinballing your way off parked cars

and mailboxes

and stumps

and people and things.

You're vaguely pointing the object.

Yes.

I'm a good driver

because I didn't hit anything.

And I've got a good driver record

because I've never hit anything.

I've never backed into something.

I've never hit anything.

I've never.

So that means I'm a good driver.

Okay.

Well, I've seen plenty of examples.

Well, yeah,

you're technically not hitting anything.

But man,

are you unobservant?

You don't know

what the speed limit is

because you haven't checked.

You don't know that I'm behind you.

You're drifting in the lane.

You're on your phone.

But you're not hitting anything.

Good job.

So that lowest common denominator

thinking,

I agree with you, Adam,

has crept into automobile manufacturers

not wanting to be sued.

Of course.

Because your car is too powerful.

Your coffee was too hot, McDonald's.

Remember that one?

Yeah.

From decades ago?

Yeah.

For sure.

The coffee was too hot.

Well, you ordered coffee.

Yeah.

I mean,

yeah, there's more to that story.

But I do take your point.

Yes.

So lowest common denominator thinking

has also crept into high performance cars

like Ferrari.

When you turn the traction control

all the way off and you're in track mode,

is it really off?

Fair.

Because the more you turn the wheel,

it comes back in.

It actually adds back in.

When you let go of the wheel.

Yeah, sure.

It disappears.

You got plenty of wheel spin.

Then you turn the wheel.

They're wanting to protect their cars,

their customers from calling back and saying,

Yes.

Well, your car

is too fast, too powerful.

I couldn't handle it.

Well, are you a good driver?

Well, yes.

Look at my safety record.

I've never crashed anything till now.

Right.

OK.

And just as you said with the ZR1X,

well, it's got so much power

and I can't believe we can walk into a showroom

and buy it.

Yeah, you're right.

You're totally right.

Yeah.

The dealership won't check your driving record.

True.

Because they don't care.

True.

Are you a good driver?

Well, yeah, I can totally handle

well over a thousand horsepower.

An 8.5 seconds quarter mile time

and an almost one and a half seconds zero to 60.

I can totally.

Yeah.

I got my driving record.

I got this.

I'm a good driver.

Yeah.

Driver.

I've never hit anything yet.

You're actually a terrible driver

because of list of reasons.

I can't see your eyes in the exterior review mirror.

I know where you're looking.

I can tell where people are and are not looking

just by where their car is.

The attitude of the car in the lane.

I can tell if you're on your phone.

Sometimes I'm wrong.

I'm like, why you?

Oh, you're on your phone.

Yeah.

Of course you are.

Nine times out of 10,

if somebody does something inexplicable,

they are on their phone.

They're on their phone.

We are all guilty, folks.

Yeah.

But you didn't hit anything.

True.

And the insurance company doesn't know

how bad of a driver you are

because that's not reflected in any accidents,

any physical contact with anything.

Yeah.

So now this is where all-wheel drive comes into play.

They want to continue doing that.

And I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist.

But have insurance companies and car manufacturers said,

you know what would keep insurance premiums down

and fewer accidents as if we gave everybody all-wheel drive?

Well, yeah, it does add weight to the car.

And there's some performance cars.

Do we really need all-wheel drive?

Was the 911 made better by being all-wheel drive?

It certainly added weight and deadness to the front-end steering.

Sure, yeah.

They've actually amazingly

overcome most of it in the new Carrera T hybrid,

which is very quick and sharp.

But then I keep thinking to myself,

what's the two-wheel drive version of this?

It's probably even more amazing.

Fair, fair.

Okay.

And then in any rear-wheel drive car,

you and I get in, we're just going,

this is how driving should be.

Mid-engine, front-engine.

This is great, except for the heavy Mustang

and probably the heavy Corvette.

It's probably poor.

It has to do with whether or not your steering is dead.

And some of those bigger cars is steering still dead, yeah.

So I'm kind of with you.

I do see your point.

I do think there are certain cases where it has its place,

but Adam, this got under my skin too.

I'm with you because car manufacturers

don't want their cars to be dinged.

They want you to have a car that you like enough

and you're going to come back and buy another one.

They want repeat customers.

But for most of the driving population

that hasn't ever been tested since Driver's Ed,

when they were in high school,

it retested, I mean.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They haven't hit anything their whole lives

and so they're good drivers.

My son about to get his license

makes this very apparent to me.

And he's, you know, the place he's at now?

I was driving with him last night in the dark.

We were coming home.

He was driving as many.

It was in the dark.

We were coming back from Salt Lake.

It's winter.

We were driving down I-80.

There's turns.

There's traffic.

And he did perfectly fine.

Not outstanding.

But Scott, they're thinking, you're right.

You're ready for a license.

There's a ton of stuff you don't know.

There's a ton of refinement that I would like you to have.

But can you drive everywhere you need to go?

Yeah.

Now, between can you drive everywhere you need to go

and I'm a good driver?

These are not equivalent.

There's a grand canyon in between those two.

And it's like skiing and many other activities.

I think you can always be getting better as a driver.

I don't think there's ever a place where like,

I reached the plateau.

I am done now.

Max Verstappen still does sim work to become a better driver.

And beats people.

Yeah, for sure.

So you never stop.

But I was aware.

I did kind of mentally reach that place with my son

last night where I actually said to him,

I was like, buddy, you're ready to do this.

You're ready to have your license.

That's amazing.

And I said to him, I said, there's a ton of stuff

I'd like you to get better at.

But it's just kind of take time and driving

and having experience.

And as weird as it sounds, and this is hard for me

as a father, but it's true,

having experience when I'm not with you.

You're in the car by yourself and you

got to make the call.

Because I'm eyes and head on a swivel

when I ride with that kid.

Sure.

I'm calling everything.

Sure.

Some of what she sees, some of what she doesn't.

I'm calling stuff that doesn't matter.

Like that guy two lanes over is doing something weird.

OK.

But that starts to teach him to get his eyes up

and start paying attention to scenarios.

But I just realized between where he is,

and I'm not saying I'm great,

but where he is and where I am,

there's so many decades of driving experience.

He's just got to go do it.

We've reached the you're not crashing into things.

We're there.

I mean, what bugs me the most are rear view cameras.

I like it and I rely on it.

And it is awesome.

It helps me back into space.

It's a godsend.

It's fantastic.

But also it's made people really lazy.

And we don't turn around to look where we're going anymore.

I don't know.

And that doesn't mean it's taken away all accidents.

And that means every safety feature,

you can't litigate or make the safety features

to take the danger out of driving.

You can't you can't invent enough safety features

and even autonomy.

You can't make it so all wheel drive

and so sensor heavy and festoon with everything

that it will never have an accident

or never get confused.

I don't think it's possible.

It isn't possible.

But there's some drivers that you're probably

not the person the insurance company

in the car manufacturer needs to worry about.

Potentially.

Let's hope not.

Yeah.

I don't feel like we are the people

that you need to worry about on the road.

I see people all the time like,

oh, that was a bad choice.

That was a bad choice.

But somehow you made it through.

It happens.

Sure.

All right.

Okay, go.

Okay, I may go way off base here,

but I'm going to run around a little bit on this

and I'm going to just I'm going to put up a picture here

that is just all of the different drive types shown.

And then I want to talk about this

from a lot of levels because I think,

I think Adam is right.

This is going to be good.

I think this is just a crutch.

But I also want to explain when it's valuable.

Because it's valuable.

All comes down to contact patch.

Okay.

Yes.

You have four.

I know you've all heard this,

but you have four little patches,

little things the size of a note card.

Okay.

Four of those are what's transmitting

everything you want a car to do to the road.

So anything that affects any one of those four patches,

you're losing traction.

You're losing the ability to tell the car

to do something else.

And I'll give you an example.

I sat on I 70 last winter,

right around this time last winter,

it was February of last winter.

Okay.

Sat on I 70 with just a light snow on I 70.

And getting up to the tunnel to get away

from the ski resorts was some of the worst traffic

I've encountered in my lifetime.

That was Eisenhower tunnel, right?

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

Getting up to the tunnel was horrific.

And most of the time, what was happening

is it was just people who were not

on winter tires or even winter rated tires.

And the minute that they stopped in traffic,

which is going to happen to you at some point,

they could never get going again.

Now, in that scenario.

Momentum.

Yes.

Well, but you didn't have a choice.

Everybody in front of you stopped

and you're sitting on a hill

and now there's ability to move,

but now you need to move from a stop.

But let's think about this.

This is the place where that all-wheel drive

at a start helps because you're sitting there

and now you have to get moving.

And if you don't, and this is my

real push for all-wheel drive is helpful.

If you don't have all-wheel drive,

you have half as much chance of getting going.

Right.

And I love rear-wheel drive cars in the snow.

I like all kinds of cars in the snow.

But in that instance, we were in my wife's kind.

I was appreciative of the fact that we had all-wheel drive.

Now, we had the proper tires.

We had Quattrack Pros, which are good all-weather tires,

snow-rated tires.

We use them year-round.

They're actually my favorite Wetterstein product

is the Quattrack Pros.

They're amazing.

Yeah, they're awesome.

Great in the summer, good in the winter.

So I wasn't worried about the tires,

but I was also aware of the fact,

because I could actually feel it from the driver's seat.

I could feel all four tires are finding their traction moment,

because they have the right tires.

Car's still on torque around.

All four tires are trying to find no slip angle

so they can start moving.

Okay?

And I'm watching cars around us, front-wheel drive cars,

rear-wheel drive cars, that I'm aware of the fact

that if I was in my Lotus, okay,

my Elise with WindTrack Pros on it,

full-winner tires,

I would have struggled more to get going,

even though I have the right tires on that car

and it doesn't weigh much.

It doesn't take much momentum to get that car going.

It weighs 2,000 pounds.

I'm showing it here with Paul's GT4

from when we drove those cars in a blizzard.

That was a great day.

Okay, it was a great day.

I 100% believe I could have gotten up that climb

on I-70 in the Elise,

but I know that every time I had to stop

and start going again,

I would have been having to modulate the throttle

to not overspend the rear wheels

because I've got half as many contact patches

as everybody else.

I'm aware of that, but Adam's right.

Because as soon as you get going,

this is an irrelevancy

because everything else you need to do,

you still have four contact patches, okay?

If I have four contact patches that have proper grip

because I have the right tires in bad weather,

it doesn't matter what my drive wheels are

because my turning and my braking,

I have the same four contact patches

as everybody else,

whether they have all-wheel drive or not.

So now it is just about the tires.

All of these manufacturers program

their all-wheel drive systems to just get you going.

And now that you're going, let's be honest,

that's an endorsement of my point

because the manufacturers know that

if I can just get you going,

then it doesn't matter what your drive wheels are.

They know it too.

That's the other part that's happening here

that's insidious.

If you have something like a GTR or an Evo,

that is all-wheel drive thinking all the time.

It's going to help you in corner,

it's going to help you in braking

because if you actually engine brake,

all the wheels are thinking.

The wheels are constantly sending power

to a specific wheel.

It'll help cornering, braking, starting.

That is real all-wheel drive.

True, true.

But the manufacturers know exactly what I'm saying.

It's all-wheel drive to just get you moving

and now that you're moving,

you don't need all-wheel drive.

We'll just go to two-wheel drive.

And now you're at the mercy of your tires.

This is tires, tires, tires, tires, people.

I'm telling you, okay?

That is the beginning and end of this

is just about the tires.

This is also dummy-proofing.

All-wheel drive is dummy-proofing.

If you just had all-wheel drive,

you'd be safer.

For all those good drivers out there.

But the problem is it's only at a start

for most vehicles.

And Adam, you're the person that owns

an all-wheel drive car

that's actually realized that's the case.

Most people, I bet you,

if we were able to pull all-wheel drive drivers,

all of them think no matter what they drive.

And I realize there are somewhere

that it is moving all-wheels all the time.

Okay? The Cayans do.

All right?

But I guarantee you

the average person driving an all-wheel drive

thinks all four wheels are moving

equivalently at all times.

If you jacked the car up,

all four wheels would spin.

And that is the rare exception.

Yes.

The rare exception.

So this is being sold as all-wheel drive

has made you safer.

And I will submit this to you.

All-wheel drive has made you more able

to start in any condition.

And after that, it's done.

The engine braking

that does transmit breaking power

through the all-wheel drive system does help.

If the system works that way.

If it works that way.

But I'm saying, I'm saying.

I almost don't.

If you have an all-wheel drive vehicle,

in general, broad strokes,

it works like Adams.

It's a front-wheel drive vehicle

that occasionally throws torque to the rear.

And that is a system designed to get you

moving forward all the time.

And so people, and this is where we get hit,

but I stand by it.

If you gave me the option,

tires or drive wheels,

tires every time.

Tires every time.

I agree.

Because that'll get you,

give you more chance of having grip

for the contact patches

that you actually are trying to move.

Front, rear, whatever.

More chance of those actually having enough grip

to get going.

And then in every other scenario,

tires, those contact patches

are the right grip

to get you to turn or stop or whatever.

So for all of you that buy all-wheel drive

and think whatever tires I've got are fine,

I really want to say again,

look into what your tires are good for.

And then have a real conversation with yourself

about, look, I am not saying

that one size fits all on,

this is the way to solve this.

How do you drive your car?

Where do you drive your car?

A place like California.

Okay?

If you don't have four-wheel drive

or can't prove all-wheel drive,

they will make you put chains on.

They don't care what your tires are.

Going to Mammoth.

But I just, yeah, sure.

I could take my, I guarantee you,

I could take my lease on winter tires

to Mammoth in a Blizzard

and I could get there.

Because the winter tires are good

and the car doesn't weigh much.

Put me on a Blizzard going from Bishop to Mammoth.

I could take cops out of the equation.

I could get there.

Sure.

But the authorities aren't going to let you through.

But the authorities are not going to let me

even think about it.

Right.

Because I cannot prove to them

that the tires are mattering.

And that is entirely,

let's keep people as safe as we can.

Let's avoid litigation.

You let me go through my two-wheel drive car.

No, I didn't.

I forced you to put chains on.

So your usage might be,

I need all-wheel drive

because that is actually fitting my life.

But I want to take away this

and we're not going to succeed.

We're going to fail.

But I would love to take away this impression

that people have in general

that all-wheel drive is safer

because I do not believe that to be true.

And Adams discovered it.

In a track situation,

I'll let you think this is hypothetical

but this can happen.

Somebody is used to driving

an all-wheel drive car on track

and then switches to something

that is rear-wheel drive only.

You cannot drive them the same way

because you might think

that that car will pull you out of a corner

when it doesn't and it actually over-rotates

because it sends all that power

to the rear wheels instead

over-rotates the car,

sends the car into the far wall.

That can happen.

Let's be honest.

You're not mentioning person or car

because and the driver used to have

an all-wheel drive car

and they were very, very fast in that car.

And they knew exactly,

they had the brain pattern, if you will,

for where to hit full throttle on this course.

And in their old car,

it would never do them wrong.

But now they're in a rear-wheel drive powerful car.

Same power application in the same place

with the same line

from a person that knows how to do this track.

But the car does something totally different.

Adam, you mentioned rally.

And rally, absolutely necessary.

The drivers are using it

because they're superb.

They're probably the best drivers on the planet.

They are using that to their effect.

DTM banned Audi using their Quattro system

because Quattro used to throw power 50-50.

That Avant wagon that I had from 2005?

Oh, fours and oh, four.

That Quattro split was 50-50.

And you could feel it.

It's like the thing grabbed the earth.

It has that four-wheel drive feeling.

A Nissan GTR.

The very first one we had.

The first iteration was in 2009.

And backing out of the driveway,

it's almost like it's a 4x4 with the hubs locked.

And so the inside wheel is fine.

The outside wheel is being dragged across the pavement.

And it's screeching and the transmission

is making strange, breaky noises.

It was weird, yeah.

And then in a straight line and then around a corner,

the car's just sucked to the ground.

Crazy how that was true.

It's almost like a cheat code.

In those instances, yeah.

And rally, absolutely.

It can matter.

And having all four wheels doing the same thing

at the same time

and the best drivers taking advantage of that,

that car shouldn't ever go anywhere else

but where you point it.

You know what?

The new Jim Kona video, all right?

The new Jim Kona video is the brat,

this 900-horsepower brat.

The brataroo.

Okay?

Yeah.

That Travis Pastrana is driving.

And there's plenty of times where he's drifting that.

And the whole reality is, and let's be honest,

this is Subaru selling all-wheel drive.

The concept is this is what's happening in my outback.

That even though I don't have them out of power,

all four wheels are fighting at all times.

Maybe.

He's demoing it in air.

Yes.

All four wheels.

Yes, we all think that's what all-wheel drive is.

That is so custom built for racing and rallying.

But I am going to wrap this up on my side by saying this.

If you want the best possible option

in terrible conditions, it is all-wheel drive

and winter tires.

I'm talking about it blizzering outside.

There's going to be hills.

There's going to be ice.

Sure.

All-wheel drive, winter tires.

That is the right combination.

Anything less than that,

you aren't in optimal condition.

But you cannot go into that thinking,

well, whatever tires I have are great.

Or that once you're rolling,

I'm so much better off than everybody else.

Because frankly, in my tiny Elise,

if I got lucky enough in the blizzard to get moving,

and I probably will,

it's just going to take me some time.

You took off.

You left the gas station.

I'm still navigating some things.

The snow is deep.

I got some slippage back there.

I'll get there.

I'm going to get moving.

But once we're moving,

when we hit that place in traffic,

where there's fog and everybody hits their brakes,

I'm going to stop long before you did.

Yeah.

It's important that we all continually have a mindset

of getting better as drivers and being observant.

And remembering that when you're in the driver's seat,

that's your number one priority,

is to operate the car and drive,

and look ahead and look up.

Not your phone, not makeup,

not cereal, not toast, not anything else.

That is priority one.

I see so many people where that has dropped

to about priority number four on the list.

It's amazing how much watching of our phone

we do, like actual videos and stuff.

I've seen people scroll with shorts.

It's just, brace yourself, everybody.

We've ran about this before,

but here it is, coming back and wanting

to become a better driver,

because there's so many people

that are uninterested in driving.

It's just a way of moving themselves from point A

to point B.

And they are not thinking about my tire patch.

I'm thinking about my tire pressures

every time I go out.

I'm like, oh, it's a little bit colder today.

What are my tire pressures like?

It doesn't matter what I'm driving.

We are weirdos, but yes, yeah.

It's gone too far.

So I'm not saying you need to constantly

be driving like you're on track,

the hyper-awareness like you're on track

at all times while you're on the street.

It is a little bit more relaxed than that.

It is, for sure, yes.

But still, we want everybody to become better drivers.

Come to Hookt on Driving Track Day.

You get instruction, right seat instruction,

and the awareness does translate to the street.

It does, you're right.

Here's how I'm going to coin it.

All-Wheel Drive is a get-going device.

It's not a safety feature.

It's a get-going device.

Why does the Ferrari FF need this super complicated

all-wheel drive system in the front axle

that goes through the oil pan?

And then subsequent second, third buyers

have this massive maintenance problem,

as far as like, ah, I don't care.

You bought it used.

I don't know what to tell you.

I have no idea.

But yeah, there you go.

When you want your spring break to feel like

and your kid's pool day to feel like

and your hotel bed to feel like

ooh and room service to feel like

because at Hilton hospitality feels like

your cabana's ready.

Would you like fresh towels?

It matters where you stay.

Book now at Hilton.com.

Hilton for this day.

We're adding FCP Euro as our partners

and supporters for both everyday driver

and hooked on driving.

For nearly 40 years, FCP Euro has been an industry

leading supplier of genuine original equipment

and OEM parts and performance upgrades

for European cars.

That means BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Mini, Mercedes,

Volvo, Porsche, and even Saab.

Paul, you have to call your brother-in-law

and tell him FCP Euro is the place

because as I just said, even Saab,

we're putting it in the ad.

Anyway, they offer a lifetime

replacement guarantee on everything,

including consumables like brake pads,

wiper blades, and even oil filters.

Buy a replacement, send back the old one,

and receive a credit for the full amount.

For your Saab!

Plus, FCP Euro offers free economy shipping

on orders over $49

and a 90-day hassle-free return policy

for new unused and uninstalled parts.

So visit FCP Euro today

for more than 300,000 parts

ready to ship for your European car

and your Saab.

Speaking of hooked-on driving stuff,

we have lots of hooked-on driving events

coming right now.

Hooktondriving.com, go to there right now,

hit the Schedule tab, and you can just see

there'll be scrolling pages of stuff

going on hooked-on driving this year.

We're very, very excited at stuff happening nationwide,

but I want to point out a couple.

First off is Circuit of the Americas.

That is May 30th and 31st in Austin, Texas.

Two great days on that track.

I'm very, very excited to be going back.

Registration for that are already happening quick.

So it's going to be a really, really good weekend.

So if you're interested,

if you ever wanted to drive Circuit of the Americas,

this is your year.

They're making changes for next year.

We're not sure what all's happening.

It's going membership.

It's very weird, but they love having us there.

We love going.

So Circuit of the Americas in the end of May.

Pilgrimage is coming.

That's right.

We're doing it again.

The Ring and Spa,

but I want to unpack this a little further.

We've done this every year we can,

except for COVID years for 10 years.

It is still, well, I'll only speak for me.

It is the highlight of my year every year.

I think it might be for you too.

It is so great.

It's so great.

And the Ring remains my favorite track I've ever driven.

I'm a little bit weird,

but what we find with anybody that goes,

you either fall in love with Spa

or you fall in love with the Ring.

They're both great tracks.

They're both amazing.

But I will say that more people like Spa

than like the Ring generally.

Okay.

So here's what's happening this year.

So amazing.

Just based on the way that the count,

we don't get to pick the calendar.

Okay.

So based on when we get to go

and just do the trip we want to do,

this actually is two days Spa this year.

So two days at Spa, a road tour day,

and then one day at the Ring

that is an actual track day,

which means people paying attention.

It's not to this in Farton.

And lots fewer cars on track,

which is the way you want to do the Ring.

And it's not just lead follow.

It isn't.

It is right to get yourself on track.

We also have a fun tourist day

at the front and the rear.

We've expanded the trip out.

But I want you to notice

that this is a more expensive trip

than it's been in the past

because it has an additional track day.

That is expensive because you're there for track

and cars and instructor and fuel

and all of that adds up big time.

So it is a little bit more expensive trip this year

than it was in years past

because it has three track days,

an extra track day on Spa.

But keep in mind,

you can be in Europe as a tourist

with tourist days, drive days,

two days on Spa and the Ring

and still get out for the same price

as going to others domestic track days

where you brought your own car,

you only did lead follow

and you kind of drove every day.

I mean, flight's notwithstanding.

Of course.

No, we do not include airfare

because we don't know

where you are on the planet

and what upgrades you want to do

and what miles you want to use.

So get yourself there.

But beyond that, yes,

it's on parity with any other US adventure

that we found.

It's crazy.

And then you're in Europe doing the Ring and Spa.

And yeah, again, it's two days at Spa.

It's going to be incredible.

So you can find that at everydaydriver.com

slash pilgrimage or what you could do

is go to everydaydriver.com slash adventures.

And there you will see the two adventures

that we're doing in the US this year

along with pilgrimage.

So all three of those

are at everydaydriver.com slash adventures.

You can see it right down here.

And then think about clearing your calendar

for those because we want you with us on these trips.

Well, as you bring it up, actually,

it's two weeks before the Cota trip.

It's the middle of May is our Monterey adventure.

Come drive PCH and other great

California roads with us

and then do a track day at Laguna Seca.

That is actually by the time this is up next Tuesday.

I'm calling my shot.

That'll be available for registration.

OK, excellent.

So that's going to be there.

If you're one of our patrons,

you got early access to these trips.

And many of our patrons have already signed it

for pilgrimage, but there's still space.

The Monterey trip is going to go quick.

Yeah, it is.

It's going to be awesome.

The minute we said we were going back to California,

the amount of chatter on discord was like an atom bomb.

It was like, California.

It's getting really cool.

You've got to come.

You also need to know about Starstripes and Speed

at Hooked On Driving.

So that is our Northeast region.

Santi and Cody are putting on amazing events up there,

and that is for Watkins Glen, July 4th weekend,

July 3rd through the 5th.

It is going to be another bash,

a huge weekend on track, camping, fireworks,

drifting, car show.

It's going to be an incredible event.

So if you're on the East Coast,

plan to go to Watkins Glen for that.

And then, of course, all of our events nationwide

can be seen at hookedondriving.com.

We definitely want you with us.

Bring your car.

Yes.

Learn how to become a better driver

and enjoy yourself.

It's so much fun.

We hope to see you there.

AI is incredible.

They can teach you how to fry an egg

and even write a poem pirate style.

But it knows nothing about your work.

Slackbot is different.

It doesn't just know the facts.

It knows your schedule.

It can turn a brainstorm into a brief.

And it doesn't need to be taught

because Slackbot isn't just another AI.

It's AI that knows your work as well as you do.

Visit slack.com forward slash meet Slackbot to learn more.

Griot's is a family owned company

and they've been a part of every one of our road trips.

We always take speed shine on every shoot

helping us spot clean cars in a moment's notice.

Griot's foaming glass cleaner

is the quickest and best way we've ever found

to get windows clean before a big day of driving.

Griot's is always releasing new and improved products

like their updated wash bucket too.

Plus all of Griot's liquid products are 100% guaranteed

and made right here in the US.

The Griot's folks are always happy

to answer any questions you have

and make sure you get the right product

and the right results.

So get the best quality car care products out there

from a company that has always supported this show.

Our audience can always get at least 10% off

by using the code driver10 at griotsgarage.com.

These next two debates are related.

But they're unintentionally related.

It's not like they sent in,

hey we heard about my buddy.

They just are so very similar.

It's uncanny.

Yeah.

It's coincidence that I didn't know was possible

but I guess it is.

Supposedly.

So we've got Michael writing to us from Ohio.

Well Michael bought a car that he really wanted

and it turns out he didn't want it

as much as he thought he did.

Not terribly long ago Michael compromised a little bit

and bought a Cayman GTS 4.0 with the PDK

and the exact color combination that he wanted.

Even got a decent price for it for a Porsche.

How is that a compromise?

All of us would ask.

He says well first of all

the original plan was to buy a 718 Spider

and then the YouTube consumption took over his life

and ruined his good time.

What happened is he heard all the normal YouTube stuff.

I mean you've heard it as well.

Let's see that that generation.

We've talked about it.

The gearing's too tall.

You won't get to shift it enough in your normal driving

because it was designed to be on the ring.

PDK you just get PDK it'll be better.

He heard all the things

and he just thought all right.

He was worried about decent weather running out in Ohio

and he thought you know I'm having trouble

actually pulling the trigger on the extra cost

for the Spider.

I should just get the Cayman GTS40 PDK

and he got it and he thinks he says

his future biographers I love that

will write this moment as a mistake

because he said it's beautiful.

It makes a great sound.

He says it's the best car he's ever driven

and he's included his brief opportunity earlier

in life of driving a Ferrari F430.

It is fundamentally the best car he's ever driven.

He said the PDK is awesome.

Everything you've heard is true.

It's as good as it can get.

The whole car's result is kind of boring.

It's so good you can almost hear it say

don't drive directly into a tree

and I'll manage the rest for you.

Wow he said it's satisfying

but in a very narrow sort of way.

So now what he says

Porsches have legendary ability to hold their value.

Yes absolutely.

You'll find these cars are selling at

or above their MSRP.

Even there are five six model years old

but if you're the seller he says

the car you own has lost 15%

of the market value in the last four months

and 20% from its original price.

Well what's happening there is.

What they're in huge demand he says.

Because you know what this means

none of the dealers that are going to

sell them are going to buy it at the price

that you want because they've got to

get their markup back out of it.

All of that to say in order to exit

what he calls the Cayman catastrophe.

Wow okay.

He's going to have to eat what works

out to be about $15 per mile

that he got to drive this car.

He can afford it right now

but context matters.

Yeah I mean he's saying

look he is aware of the fact

that he's blessed enough

he could get out of this car

he could take that hit

but it's not like you didn't notice.

He is 44 his wife is 28

and they like top down driving

row your own gears twisty Ohio

back roads that's what he's looking for

you're already understanding

why the Cayman's not working

the Cayman's hard top and PDK.

He was thinking convertible

with his wife

manual transmission and I'm sure

she'd ride fine in the Cayman

that's not the problem but the problem

is the picture's been failed

because spider because the original

plan was to get spider

better save a little bit of money

for sure and he figured all right

you know maybe he can make this work out

he's also thought about

okay what about track days

maybe he could do an hod day

in the Poconos you should come

by the way that the northeast guys

do a great event.

He said he's also thinking about

okay if not the spider what else

and then go on to a little thing

and I have a side rant here but

said Lotus Amira

but his 14-year-old son

has said no Lotus Amira

and that's better for the track

I don't agree by the way

I don't think of the Amira

and I love mine

but I don't think of the Amira

as a track car but okay

so the Amira they think

probably doesn't work

so he's right now he's narrowed it

down to a 718 spider

which he should have bought

in the first place

is thinking or a C806

which his son really likes

but of course that's not manual

but now the question is

does Michael get the spider

that he's wanted for years

or does he sit down and do math

ooh math that's scary

the reason is because Michael's

in the financially advisory business

and he is constitutionally obligated

to do the math

uh-huh yes you are

uh-huh

his budget has a hard ceiling

of a hundred and forty thousand dollars

for that amount of money

Michael writes he can get

a preposterously loaded Z06

they might actually give you a discount

because they're having trouble

moving those cars now

I mean now you could

probably get them

it's crazy yeah

yes

and despite them being more common

in his area then

as a very special car

he says there's no manual

plus he dailies an f90 generation

m5

and it's so stupid fast

that he feels like he would have no need

for the kind of nutty acceleration

the Corvette would have to offer

okay so a straight line

bullets are relevant

because of the m5

he's got that salt

this is a fun car

this is an engagement car

yeah yeah

so he doesn't think

that's the answer

despite it be cool

so he got to thinking

why buy one car

that does everything

when he could split that price

in two and get two cars

and cover more ground that way

so in spite of being a financial advisor

Michael has listened to this podcast

for a long time

yes okay got it love it

for well under his budget

he can get a nicely appointed

lower mileage manual 981 Boxster S

and a 987.2 Cayman S

a 981 Cayman S GTS

or any of Cayvan R

but then wouldn't he have two

of the same car

yes

yes you would

he can't quite make sense

of a 981 GT4

and a 987.2 Boxster

nor can he fit the GTA4

in with the even with higher mileage

997 911 Cabriolet

even though he's ambivalent

towards a 911 without a roof

he wonders

what is our best shot

at the two car solution

or conversely

tell him it's a bad idea

and go get the spider

Michael I also want to

this is great

thank you for writing in

I also want to talk about the fact that

his solution

for two cars

is to buy two Porsches

two Caymans

well exactly

you yeah

but even if I'm being generous

it's two Porsches

why would okay

as much as they make good cars

there is no good reason

if you're going to split this budget

and buy two cars to buy two cars

of the same brand

that are both sports cars

I don't care what brand you want

I mean here it's Porsche

but don't even do that

it's like saying

I'm going to buy

a C7 Corvette

and a C7 Grand Sport

what's like

what are we doing

Corvette collector

exactly right

so yeah you can't buy two Porsches

that's not right

I mean maybe the spider

okay there's a lot to talk about here

this is good

this is what Michael currently drives

and you know what Michael

I like your ideas about an Amira

I like your thoughts about the Z06

I like your thoughts

well here's another Z06

without the obnoxious wing

and you know what most of all

I like the idea of the spider

and I suppose

that now I'm going to try to convince

you to just go get a spider

but what I'm actually hearing is

I almost think you need

a completely different driving experience

I almost feel like you need

car sorbet

I don't know what that product is

I don't know what it tastes like

I don't even know if you ingest it

you just need something that is

either visually refreshing

I guess visually

or just the driving experience

is just something totally different

because I feel like

as good as these cars are

and as much as they work for

these two guys

Amira GT4

I feel like you're

still gonna

just wonder

you're gonna go for this spider

and I think it would be great

for a short time

and then you'll get the itch again

and then you'll be thinking

huh

I wonder

I wonder what else I could have gotten

I'm not sure I'm about the two cars

and I'm not sure you need to spend

all of that $140,000

either because

I am victim to this too

I've got

that amount of money saved up

and will I have to spend every last

all and maybe a little bit more

and that's most of what I do

in my recommendations for all of you

I want to spend all of it

and a little bit more

to get the car

in some cases that works

but in this case

I don't even need

I don't think you even need to spend half

to go find

the thing you're looking for

the enjoyment

the newness

the new driving experience

now Michael

we don't know

your driving history

we don't really know

your car ownership history

and what you've had in the past

or just what you've driven and experienced

you've selected some amazing cars

really

any one of these

I think we would all be pretty excited with

I mean

true true

I think the audience right now

and everybody else is just kind of going

huh

those are your choices all right

yeah

I'll take any of them

totally

like totally

yeah

throw a dart

I

eyes closed

throw the dart

I will

I would take that

I'm not usually the guy that says

to go get yourself in the eye

you're not normally

yes

but this could really work

you said you want top-down

motoring shift at yourself

and for about $15,000

you can get a really sweet one

you're talking to Thurgen NC

Thurgen NC is what I'm looking for

so I've got a Thurgen NC on screen

so here it is with the top up

I mean this is almost like a mini GT car

I mean it is

yeah they're great

well you can get power

retractable hard top on these

which is excellent

I mean that one that we drove

just drove of Jordan's with the turbo

on it was even better

what you're identifying here

Michael is the price of fun

you want the driving experience

and I cannot guarantee you

that a 718 boxer spider

is going to be 82 percent

more fun than this

I'm not sure it'll be 50 percent

more fun than this

yeah agreed

so I'm wondering if you need to spend less

and therefore whatever you do buy

it's almost going to be throwaway

that sounds

crass

it sounds worse than you mean it

it's still real money

it's still a real car

still real money

but there won't be anything to stress

about I totally get it

yeah

but it'll be something

that you just gravitate towards

because you mentioned in Ohio

the driving roads

you mentioned weather

and it's getting bad

and then you're not sure

if you would drive it anyway

and it might only come out

for special occasions

because at 140,000 plus dollars

well

it everything's just got to be right

the sunshine's got to be out

the roads are clear and dry

and everybody's not busy

and we've got

you know the plan made

and it's got to be the perfect time

where's this

you can just jump in it and go

yeah true

true

there's a number of different cars

on my list

including I'm showing a 2023

JCW Mini Cooper

because they're just so much dang fun

they are

and also at supercoopers.com

look at you

you can find a classic Mini

with a D16 Honda VTEC engine

and at making 200 horsepower

note the license tag

and I think you would have

more fun in this

than a Boxster Spider

I

did that just

did I say that Lon

I might have said that

wow okay

this to me sounds like

the crazy hoot that you need

now

it's not convertible

but still I

yeah

I'm just wondering

about exploring Minis

because they are so much dang fun

they are

just

maybe it's not

100% more fun

maybe it's like

15% more fun

get fun in a different way

I also want something

lightweight for you

oh my gosh

I can't wait to pull this car out

this currently is still on

bring a trailer

it is a Porsche 914

that has been customized

and built

it's got a different engine in it

so it is very lightweight

it is very powerful

it is open top

manual tiny

and if you're going to treat this

like the special occasion car

that I think it's going to be

because you've got the F90 M5

then why not embrace something

a little bit older

like the 914

because I see how you got it

unique quirky

lightweight

I think thinking light

in all of these

hopefully you see that

through line

that will mean

everything about the driving experience

is going to be different

I mean

any of these boxers in 911

are lightweight-ish

the Amira is lightweight-ish

in modern cars they are

but in the grand pantheon of cars

they're still heavy

they're over 3,000 pounds

correct

compared to Miata's

and Minis and 914's

and I'm just wondering about a 356

now what I'm showing here

is from Schmidt.com

and they are a dealership

that deals in some really high-end stuff

I'm not suggesting

go get this $139,000

$356,000

take your money elsewhere

I am saying

get a replica

sure

I'm just showing this

an example

I prefer hard top

but most 356s

are exactly what you're looking for

so for 30 grand

40 grand

interesting yeah

there it is

convertible

unique

and you're not looking to go fast

and if you do something

that is $30 to $40,000

the convertible manual

that you and your wife can take

you do leave yourself open

for a track car at that point

because

us trying to solve everything

well it's a special occasion car

but what if I go track it

and what if something happens

and I'm not sure

that's the route for you

I'm saying it's the route for some people

fair yeah

but not for everybody

so I just show this

as a shining pinnacle example

in Smyrna Green

I love this car

I think I do want a 356

at some point in my life

the garage is deep

get the inexpensive replica

to satisfy this need

and leave yourself open

to some cool track car

like an 86

I'm going to keep going

the Z3

is interesting to me

yeah

we've got a friend

he's also a friend of the show

and he got the Z3

just a regular Z3

it was actually the car

that we were featured

in our $8,000 sports car piece

it's the red Z3

we bought that in Las Vegas

for five grand

he reimbursed us

because he wanted the car

and it's the car he drives the most

he just thrashes the thing

he's he's done everything it needs

which wasn't much

and drives it constantly

he told me Paul

those engines

if I blow the engine

I can find an engine

for like 1200 bucks

and drop it in

that sounds great

okay all right

he gravitates towards this thing

yeah

because it's just easy

it's fun

it's easy

it's lightweight

but if you want to spend

a touch more

how about a Z3M

with your kind of budget

you're not even spending half

and you're still in a Z3M

I think these are so cool

this is the car

that I would want over Miata

personally

yeah I know that you like it a lot

yeah

like these so much

they're very small

this has a lot of power

oh my gosh

so much fun

and this still doesn't have to be

your track car

still go find one for 30 40

maybe 50 grand

and you've still got room left

over some

for some clapped out Miata

track car

or 86 or something

and you've got two cars

and you've still spent less

I think on one hand

you're going to think

well if I don't get the super hot

amazing expensive sports car

I'm going to miss out on that

driving experience

yeah

maybe

yeah

but you've already got the GTS

4.0

which is an incredible driving

experience

and you know what that's like

and you're writing to us to say

I want something different

yeah I'm a little bored by it

yeah

yeah yeah

for sure you go

and then I'm going to spend

all of your money

and just say

enthusiast auto group

in Ohio

oh man

where you live in Cincinnati

yep

has an E30 M3

with 70,000 miles

in white

for only 140,000 dollars

so I'm going to spend all of your

money again

that's how much these things are

but they're awesome

they're awesome

but no

now granted

that is those that they

always have the nicest BMWs

anyone's ever sold

yes

exactly

so okay

so here's the rear three-quarter

shot

and they're just superb

just like the one we drove

years ago

those are spectacular

spectacular

yeah they are really good

so enthusiast auto group

I'm

I'm sure you know about this

place

I mean it's a candy store

so go

look at their website

or go

actually to their showroom

because you can

and decide

but my money for you

my leaning

is a Z3M

I think

you don't have to spend a lot

you get exactly

what you're looking for

it's tight

it's compact

fun to drive

lots of power

it'll be the go-to car

the thing is gonna run

you won't mind

if it gets a little ding

here and there

if it's

whatever

it's a little dirty

and

and then some track car

for later

as you ease

into the track usage

because again

you already know

what that driving experience is like

and if we keep going

more expensive

higher in

more power

more more more more more

then we're at

ZR1Xs

and then suddenly

you'll find yourself

doing

one and a half second

zero to 60 runs

at an eight and a half

second quarter mile

and you'll think

this is not my life

this is not my beautiful car

this is not my beautiful house

how did I get here

yeah I agree

I agree

what's interesting about this

Michael is that

ultimately

without

consultant

because we never do

Paul and I went

some similar places

really

but I think the themes are

quite similar

I'm going to start

by thinking about

what you already have

you have this

Cayman

GTS40

I'm actually showing the one

that we drove

when we put it with the

Amirah

the first time we drove

in Amirah

we also had our C8

we did a big comparison

like that

it's on our channel

you can find it

and we happen to know

that the owner

that had this

at the time we drove this

perfect spec

except for silver

but it's still perfect spec

it's gorgeous

he has since sold it

and he sold it

because it wasn't

involving enough

I can think of two other people

we've heard of

that have sold this

brilliant car

because it wasn't

involving enough

because in their normal usage

they didn't get up

into the upper

reaches of what it can do

and so it just

it was to

you already talked about it

Michael

it was so competent

they weren't engaged enough

okay

and this is a problem

this is not a

Porsche problem

this is a problem

at cars

in cars at large

right now

it's very hard

hard to find a car

that feels like

it needs you

to

wrestle it

to make it work

to interact with it

it's just

it's perfectly happy

to just do it

and honestly

this started with the GTR

which is a car that

when it came out

was the world beater

but barely needs

a body in it

to be a world beater

okay so we've

we've gotten

cars have gotten

so good now

that it's really hard

to find something

that feels like

it's raw

and needs stuff

doesn't need you

and so what I'm

worried about here is

you didn't have enough

engagement here

and I'm now showing

the spider

the current spider

and

okay

so sexy

it's great looking

it's so

you end up

with a spider rs

you end up with

manual transmission

and you have the

the howling engine

and you have the dedicated

removable top

and the whole thing

the whole thing

but it's not

that far from what you had

with the exception

of the manual transmission

which will help

the exception of the

9,000 rpm

red line

the red line will help

yes

and the fact

there's open top

all those things will help

but it's not like

you bought something

totally different

now let's go

zero six

amazing

fantastic to drive

but does a really good job

most of the time

of just being

normal

handleable

you just drive it around

a normal road

it can

I mean it could

with the one we drove

was on the Cota trip

we were in the middle

of a road trip

it's no one and a half

second

1.67

it's not

you've got a

removable top here

which is great

it's a very easy

my wife loves

C8

it's one of her

favorite cars ever

she loves the one we had

she was sorry to

see it go

because it's just a great

car to take

in any occasion

you go super fast

you can just cruise in it

it's got a lot of space

the zero six is great

but outside of the

howling engine noise

the steering is mute

it's mute

it's very capable

it's so sharp

the power is fantastic

but the steering is mute

and you don't have

a manual transmission

to work with

I think this is

a different variant

of the same problem

so let's keep moving

because

the key thing

I hear here

is that

you have fast

you want involving

what you

haven't told us at all

because you keep running back

to Porsche

and you keep running back to

and I'm not coming down on

Porsches

but you keep running back to

cars that I think are

just off center

of the problem

you currently have

so we need to just

change the target

and what I'm going to

give you first off

and it's kind of where

Paul went

but I'll give you

first off

is not even a car

recommendation

I'm going to give you

a homework list

oh

before you buy Michael

I want you to drive

the things I'm about

to talk you through

GR86

and current Miata

now I also

I didn't do a picture

but you already did Paul

the NC third gen Miata

should be on this list

I agree

but the

GR86

the current 86

or BRZ

and the current generation Miata

go drive a

prior gen

the NC Miata

these are all cars

under 3,000 pounds

they aren't powerful

they aren't

but what they give you

is involvement

I don't think the 86

works for you

because it's not convertible

and I want you to have that

this is drive homework

I want you to have

that driving experience

drive one of those

drive both those generations

of Miata

while you're at it

I do think you should

drive in a mirror

if you can

drive the four cylinder

and the six cylinder

because

this is not a track car

that's a good idea

actually

this is not a track car

there's a part of you

that keeps like

toying with

I need two cars

gonna need to

have a track car

but

I don't get the impression

from what you've written

that you actually

are a guy that goes

the track very often

your guy that goes

track acacia

so the reality is

most everything

we're talking about

you can take the track

every hooked on driving

tractor you could come

you don't have to

have a super focus

no

and you can have a great time

so bring your normal

car that's the whole thing

that we do

at hooked on driving

so

I want you to drive

the Amir

because I think you'll

discover that is

not a track car first

I can track it

I have tracked it

it's great

I took it on Kota

took it on Sonoma

had a great day

but that is not

what it's really for

is grand touring

and driving on a

great back road

and all the stuff

we've done with

our awesome road trips

it's perfect for that

my wife

and I have so much

fun in this car

we're very comfortable

and it's great

driving it over here

is fantastic

I get to drive it

for groceries

it's wonderful

because it doesn't

have the sacrifices

of the Elise

yeah

but it is really fun

however

if you're picking

a Lotus product

and you have a choice

I'd rather you

drove an Elise

than drove an Amir

because what we're doing

right now

is driving homework

I think Michael

you have got to go

lighter than 3000 pounds

and ideally

you need to go

hydraulic steering

put that with manual

and convertible

and you start to get there

no assist

no assist in the

in the Lotus Elise

I don't think

this is the right car

for you and your wife

but

but it would be good for

him to know

what these feel like

and then just move on

so I think

my big question for you

Michael is

if you were to drive

everything I just listed

how do you feel

what's on your mind

because I think

I think

buying a couple of

Caymans

will not even be on the

board anymore

yeah

I don't think you'll

think about that

I think you're going to

be thinking totally

differently

and I think

I think I actually

have found your car

I don't know for sure

but hearing

everything we know

from what you

what you want

and everything I think

you need to experience

which is this lightweight

analog stuff

I can spend half your budget

maybe more than half

depending on the one you find

you don't want a 718 spider

you want the 987

Boxster spider

from 2011

these are less than 3000

pounds

watch the old

test drive

we drove of it

these are less than 3000

pounds

they have

hydraulic steering

they have different gearing

the issues you're having

the concerns you have

with the current 718

the concerns you have

with stuff not feeling

involving enough

but you keep gravitating

back to Porsche

this is your car

I love that you love these

these are so great

they are so great

they are so so great

yeah

Boxster spider

first gen

and these tops

are so obnoxiously difficult

you're never going to put it on

it is going to be

your dedicated convertible buddy

that's right

so I think this is your car

but I still really really

want to

really want to push into you Michael

and say

I think you need to do drive

homework of light

cheap stuff first

because I think

you're going to go

oh

this is where that involvement has been hiding

I think you're aiming too high

and too modern

and if you go back

cheaper

lighter

you're going to find it

and then you can go

what do I really want

and I think it's this

I think it's this Boxster spider

the first gen

that's pretty good

we almost need a prescription pad to

seriously

I have Dr. Handwriting

I do

I have terribly Dr. Handwriting

so I will start prescribing cars

that's what I'm going to do next

Dr. School of Handwriting

so we need to prescribe two Boxsters

and call us in the morning

or something

I guess

no just one

just one

don't buy two

don't buy

why are you buying two

two-card

no yeah

no don't do that

but at least

all right

that is excellent driving homework

you've heard from both of us

wishing you well in your search

everydaydriverTV at gmail.com

topic Tuesdays

car debates

prescriptions

drive homework

topic Tuesdays

what else

hey

you should come on all of our trips

yeah that too

you gotta come

Jilri Graham

hi I'm Brian

your friend and jeweler at Shane Company

we have just the right gift

for your sweetheart

this Valentine's Day

any style

any budget

like heart-shaped necklaces

birthstones

or hand-matched diamond studs

getting engaged

create a dream ring

and choose from natural

and lab-grown diamonds

in all shapes and sizes

come see us in store

or at Shaneco.com

because a friend wants you

to win Valentine's Day

Shane Company

your friend and jeweler

this is where this gets odd

we have another car debate

from another Michael

and this Michael also has a 718 Cayman

so we're it's almost a duplicate email

to the point that Paul and I both checked

different email addresses

on different dates from different places

okay

pretty sure this is a different person

I mean there's enough similarities

to make us look twice

but this is where we are

in late September of 2025

he bought this 718 Cayman

a car he has wanted

since he saw the 987

the first day in 2006

the car ticks all the boxes

high revving naturally aspirated

mid-engine objectively beautiful

where he's located

the drivable weekends were few

and rapidly dwindled

as they approached the too cold

for a Pirelli P-Zero's weather

that happens

yes

because of this

he only put 800 miles on the car

before winter hit

he figured he'd be bummed

until it got warmer in April

and he wasn't

he didn't miss driving it

as he reflected on his time

with the car

he realized he had made a mistake

in not getting the 718 Spider

this is bizarre

but anyway onward okay

he skipped the manual

for a number of reasons

and upon reflection

none of them were very good

because the PDK is like magic

a boring kind of magic

do you see why we were confused

I mean the similarities

the coincidence is uncanny

the car is so precise

it's so easy

it's almost sterile

maybe the manual fixes it

maybe it doesn't

it's gonna involve you nor

but it's not

it's not less sterile

it really isn't

I hate to say that

but it's true

at a certain speed

at a certain window

then it gets amazing

and delightful

I've said this before

Porsches in general

if you're doing less than 80

it's really hard to be like

this is awesome

and except for 356's

which can't really go 80

no I'm talking

I'm talking modern Porsche

you'll buy modern Porsche

product right now

and below 80

it just feels

competent and easy

and above 80 you start to be like

oh there's magic here

but how often

are normal people

including us

regularly above 80

anyway onward

here's the quandary

Michael has a car he doesn't love

it was expensive

he says he does well

but not well enough

to light 100 grand on fire

and he's gonna get rid of it

the debate

isn't if he gets

the Amira

the 718 GT4 or Spyder

or the Corvette Z06

does he bother replacing this car

with anything

hang on hang on

I have to stop there

that's the question

the question isn't

what do I get

bother

do I even bother to buy

another fun car

that is a different conclusion

than the last Michael

the last Michael is

what I do with my money

first Michael then

this is this

yes this Michael

that also has the same car life

anyway it's amazing

he's just saying

I am so unimpressed

let's not that's not fair

I am so

unengaged with this car

is it even worth buying another

fun car

that is a different question

how does he get over the idea

that every option

is too much money

for too little engagement

he realizes

it's a dumb problem to have

but he has it

nonetheless

is there a reasonable chance

that he'll be disappointed

in any of the way too good cars

for him

cars that are out there

well sure

there is that chance

and you brought it up

not having a fun car

is on the table

yeah

not having anything

to replace it with

we don't know again

your driving history

your car ownership

what kinds of interest you want

all all we know is that

you wanted the fun car

and you would ostensibly

use it for fun car things

maybe some track days

theoretically

maybe some

but he has broken down

what he wants to do with it

I agree with you

but less than 800 miles

and that kind of shows

and he bought it late last year

and here's the thing

it's still currently away

for winter storage

the thing I find fascinating

about this email specifically

he just bought this car last year

he's riding to us

with the car currently

in winter storage

the new thing

the new shiny car

he should be wanting to drive

is in its first winter of storage

and he's already going

I don't miss it

and he knows he's going to sell it

he already says he's going to sell it

that's really crazy

as soon as the weather warms up

you'll be

I mean that's the time to sell sports cars

because you're at the start

of the driving season

and summer and you get that all

this is interesting

Michael I'm going to dive right in here

yeah do it

here's my here's my big thought here

I am not going to recommend a car to you

I'm going to ask you a question

that I don't think you haven't answered for yet

and that is

what do you want this car to do

the current Cayman

a mystery car to replace the Cayman

or no car at all

I don't think you know

I will add to that

with my own question

and that is

when you see this photo

Michael

so it's a fantastic windy road

we filmed on here in Utah

there's no cars on it

it's just road plus scenery

gorgeous

it's almost like a Rorschach test

it is

when you see this image

what do you think

I want to be somewhere else

I want to be boating on a lake

or doing anything else

seems like a nice place to park and take a hike

that's a pain to get through

I wish for a motorcycle

or I wish for a sports car

to go sample this

what do you think

when you see this image

interesting

that's good

I hadn't thought about that

but I just put this up

because this is a fantastic bit of road

and a great shot by chance

that we took during our C8 and R8 piece

okay

we're up on this road for that

and this is a great little bit of road

and he just so captures

all of the S curves on this section

and so that's why I wanted to put it up here

because I want to really ask you Michael

the second Michael

I want to ask you

what would you do with this car

if we found you the perfect car

are you going to take it on long road trips

are you going to take it to the track

are you going to just take it for groceries

I don't think you know yet

what you're going to do

because there's another thought here

if you sell your Cayman

that's currently sitting in winter storage

when you sell it

yeah exactly

would you be fine

would you be fine with the cars you have

and I cannot believe on this show

I'm recommending this

but ultimately

the core of what we do is

we want you to like the cars you drive

we want it to fit your life and your budget

Michael you might have all the cars

you need for right now

and we don't know what those are

we don't know what he currently

dailies or drives or anything else

look it could be just

you have a five-seat SUV egg in silver

and it works for your life

and that's fine

you could have a Prius

that has 200,000 miles on it

and all you do is commute in it

and that doesn't make you less of a car enthusiast

if that's enough car for your life right now

so this is why I want to have this question

because I don't have a car recommendation for you

I think it's time for you to stop and go

if I'm going to buy a event car

I'm not even going to say special car

because it's an event car

the event car could be a Cadillac with horns on the hood

it doesn't need to be a track car

it doesn't need to be a car

that necessarily is quote-unquote fun to drive

it could be you bought a $5,000 faton

because it's a laugh

a car to fill that part of your budget

and that part of your garage

what does it need to do

and if you get rid of this Cayman

which it sounds like you're going to

do you look at your garage and go

yeah I'm good

and if you are that's okay

that's weird for me to say

it's okay

because I know we're always like car car car

but the reality is you might be good

so I just want to encourage you to figure out

what's the experience you're looking for

and if it is here's a side note

just experience more than its car

then that's that thing you and I talk about

it's car travel

go somewhere that has roads

that are nothing like where you live

and rent something

and it doesn't need to be super hot

just something intriguing

something that interests you

I've always wanted to drive one of those

whatever it is

so then maybe you take this money

and it you don't buy a car all

you just put that money into experiences

that lead to you driving

but I'm willing to admit the fact

that you might even just want to do

experiences that don't have anything to do

with a car

I think what's happened

in both of these car debates

on paper

the Cayman GTS 4.0

is just it

you buy that car

there's no other car you'll ever want

and it's perfect

and everything's wonderful

and Doug DeMurro

I've heard the theory

so if you're writing in the comments

right now

Doug DeMurro has a theory that

Cayman is

Cayman GT4

GT4 I didn't see that happen

is peak car

and everything else you've chosen for a reason

because what you should have bought

was a GT4

I don't know that I agree with it

but I understand his logic

but Cayman GTS 4.0

is like the daily version of that argument

okay yeah

and here we have two people

that are like

yeah it's good

but maybe it's too good

and I'm not interested

so find out what you really want to do

Michael

with this car

do you need a car

and then let's shop

oh

so no recommendation

nothing at all

he's

nothing

he's got to ground himself

on

okay I'm gonna sell this

because you

here's the thing

both of you

but especially this Michael

we're talking about now

you bought this going

I'm gonna get this

and get this in my garage

I'm gonna drive it

just the birds are gonna sing

and the sun's gonna come out

and everybody's gonna cheer me

and I'm just gonna feel great inside

and it's gonna be wonderful

we've all had that thought

I'm not pointing it to you

and saying it's weird

we've all had that thought

I'm gonna get this car

it's just gonna be like

every where I go from the heavens

everywhere I go

it's gonna be amazing

doors will open

and he's driving it and just going

it's really good

and I almost

I almost read in your email

you're feeling guilty

that you don't like it more

it's like

shouldn't I love this

and it's fine

we want to absolve you of that guilt

absolutely

we do

because you're right

we preach car car car

we preach get the

sports car

but hopefully you've noticed

it's not just always get to the next

bigger batter

more expensive hotter horsepower

because

as that goes up

the preciousness factor goes up

the maintenance and the worry factor goes up

and then you go

oh why do I have this thing

yeah

but that experience is out there

it's like that perfect lap

it's out there

can you see it

yeah for sure

so I'm 100% with you

I think that's excellent advice

and I think you do need to take some time

to figure out what it is you want

but I'm still gonna recommend a car for you Michael

good I love it

still gonna come back to me personally

knowing what I know

and what I can extrapolate out of this email

I think you should go drive a Z3

because of the continual stories

and our own experiences

when that Z3 was in our lives

it was just sort of like

yeah it's just easy

it's true

it's fair

easy, small

very parkable

very fun

engaging

it's just no worries

and you just get to

yeah there's no pretense

there's no

I have to look a certain way

or do something with it

I can just go drive

and that's what is so great about Miata's

but in this case

Z3 is the answer

and what I'm showing on screen

is just a regular Z3

spend eight grand

and again

once some time has passed

I mean by mid-summer

will you feel the itch

I need something

I still need a

maybe little thing

he might yeah

but you don't want to spend the money

but you already know

what a GTS 4.0 feels like

yeah

I'm wondering

if you just go get a Z3

and then of course the Z3M

I just

I think these are so cool

I think

they have stood the test of time

when they came out

everybody called them camel nose

everybody was down on them

they were the bond film

when they came out

oh yeah

that's how they introduced them

and it was

not as

aggressive as people wanted

out of the styling

but I think it is aged

wonderfully

they aged very well

and they drive better than people remember

they really do

they're just so good

and it comes from an era

which I think we're all lamenting

we wish

was still around

just

give me a stupid car

give me something that has no

safety features

it's just manual

with a good engine

it's seats

it's tires

a steering wheel

some decent styling

give me something that

doesn't try to do stuff for me

give me a dumb car

it's good

yeah nothing wrong with a dumb car

that's starting to feel better and better

yeah

I still think

this is what I'm landing on for you

of course all the other options

that I suggested for

Michael number one

in the first email

because he's in the exact same boat as you are

all those apply

minis, meadas

all that fun stuff

and worth a drive

but I don't

I'm kind of with you

I don't know if driving homework is necessary

because these are also

so fun

you're just going to get it and be like

and then you'll remember

how little you spent

and be like

ah

that is the upside

even better

that is the upside for sure

thank you for writing to us

both of you

this is uncanny

it's very cool yeah

the emails came in

not too far apart from each other

a little over a week from each other

yeah yeah

that's weird

very

so

but cool

yeah

that just

I hope these emails

speak to other people

that I know

absolutely

are going through this too

yep

we want you to aspire

and get the car

that you've been dreaming of

and hopefully

it is everything

but if it's not

you have

our permission

and hopefully you give yourself

permission

to move on from it too

that's okay

yeah

and go find something cheap

and you know

maybe this is

96% more fun

because

it's not the expensive thing

watch our price of fun film

again

because that really is

the headspace of Paul

and I live in

and even though we both have

what are candidly

our dream cars

I get into all kinds of small

light cheap stuff

and just go

yeah

and we're done

my my son's

$4,200 mini

is a fantastic car to drive

it looks cool

it's fun to drive

it shares garage space

with my near six figure

Amira

and it's not like

the Amir is awesome

I love it

but it's not like

I open the garage

I look at the mini

and I go

like okay

we could take the mini

it'd be fun

why not

we could take the mini

it's crazy

that that's the case

all right

we're moving on

to car conclusions

I got two quick car conclusions

look at questions

for you guys

this is a long podcast

but I love that

it's great

Jay is writing

and you might remember him

he was the guy

with the hammer

from the story about

yeah

with the hammer

but anyway

Jay with the hammer

yeah he's moving on

he recently bought

a 2013

328i convertible BMW

from a cousin

who was surrendering it

due to the BMW

demon of maintenance

and reliability

161,000 miles

three cracked wheels

every warning

like possible on the dash

so a full Christmas tree

the dealership

were only offering them

$1,600

so he and his minister

of fun

decided

she wanted a convertible

again

top work

the AC blue cold

so how bad could it be

the car has been

in their possession

for one month

of the last three

which means it's for two months

it's not been theirs

stuff's been getting worked on

here it is

it looks

there's the car

really surprisingly good

he said

the minister of fun

hasn't told him

where the financial costs are

but they think

they're into the car

for about nine grand

that's not bad for this car

okay

it's high mileage

well

new wheels right

the trick here is

you have a

where you are probably now

is you have a $9,000 BMW

that runs well

so it's almost like

you went out and bought a car

that you know runs well

for $9,000

okay

all right

so they had to get new wheels

so they aren't constantly

putting air into the tires

I understand that reality

but his wife

has said

it's a car

like the rich girls drove

in high school

which makes me laugh

and it's also funny

don't know if

any of you out there

how many of you

have seen the wicked movie

parts one and two

but

his wife

likes the fact

that they have a green

mini Cooper convertible

sorry green mini Cooper

electric called

Elfie

because it's green

and this car

the white one

is called Galinda

on the license tag

that's crazy

this is the good witch

that's a great one

I love it

I think that's fantastic

Andre M writes to us

he is in LA

back October 4th 2023

he says he thought

it was a car conclusion

he's leasing a 2023

mini JCW automatic

largely based upon our reviews

he says he loves it

five days out of the week

the other two days

not so much

because he's got three kids

Monday through Friday

it's just him and the car

driving faster slow

but then on the weekends

the kids don't fit

in the back seats

not even little kids

yeah he says he's considered

taking out the passenger seat

that's how bad the problem is

but they they love

zooming around in the car

of course they do yeah

but then Andre

just writes to us

with a conclusion

in December of 2025

and he bought a used

2020 mini countryman

John Cooper works all four

Rebel green black top

no stripes or decals

interior is British Oak

Chesterfield leather

the light brown

he says the power seats are awesome

he said he got it from Austin

salesperson at many of downtown LA

and his lease was running out

that we described

he was over as a lot of miles

he says he drove a five series

but this countryman was fast

300 horsepower able-bodied

love it

he said the luxury is very similar

to the JCW hard top

but there's real back seats

he misses the two doors

zip and burv

but life is easier with the countryman

kids love it

wife loves it

he loves it

I mean that's how you did

a car adjacent to what you were liking

but better fit for your life

I love that Andre

that's great

step into your future

with an all new series

Star Trek Starfleet Academy

being a cadet

means being open

to the people around you

I've spent my whole life

getting away from stuff

letting someone in

that's it's hard

I want to be captain

I need to be captain

Holly Hunter and Paul Giamatti's Star

you'll encounter challenges

your predecessor has never had to imagine

Starfleet Academy

new series now streaming on Paramount Plus

you guys send in a lot of good questions

you actually

were responding to the

silver

five seat

five door

Volkswagen Tiguan

those pictures were good

because we just released

the test drive for that piece

on our test drive channel

just this past Sunday

so that actually has just come out

but you guys responding to that

Kurt Meyer said

is it harder for company to go

upmarket or downmarket

seems like luxury brands

going down is hard

but also

what about mainstream brands

going up

that seems difficult too

Kirk I actually think it is easier

if they don't overshoot

for a brand to go up

then down

because what happens

is you get Lexus or Genesis

you get a brand you don't expect

does a car

they just put a car

at the top of their lineup

just above where their lineup normally is

but they try to compete

with the people that are

25% more expensive than them

and that becomes the selling point

so now look at

look at modern Lexus

okay that was Lexus whole plan

Toyota is releasing a luxury car

what are they doing

no toy nobody wants that from Toyota

what are we talking about

you can't compete with Mercedes and BMW

and yes they can

it was cheaper

it was well engineered

you got a lot for your money

you got

what felt like all the luxury the

German brands were giving you for less

you hang on long enough

I'm not saying that people look at that with parody

but Lexus is a legitimate luxury brand

nobody says they aren't

nobody ever goes oh Lexus is a terrible luxury brand

it's a good luxury

it might be your luxury brand

but it's a very good one

conversely I think when a luxury brand

goes down market

they get very concerned about

where can we cut costs

where can we make this

worth the price point

we're gonna have to sell it out of

and because they aren't used to thinking

that way they don't hide stuff as well

as the lower market brands do

you get in a Mazda 3

at $35,000 and you think

this is only 35 grand

you get in a Mercedes at $35,000

and you go whoa this was the low rents back

that's true

okay that's the problem

it's much harder to go down than up

on Facebook Jared Byer asks

if there's a car or car brand

that has our favorite lighting signature

like Porsche four points

or the Cadillac the vertical lines

I do love the four points of light

in the Porsche but that notwithstanding

you know what's cool is Genesis

especially their new concept cars

with the double line

and then one the top one goes

all the way across

it actually wraps

and then in the diamond shape

especially on some of their EV concepts

but it's that outline of the diamond shape

and it's so over the top and in your face

but it's very signature

and it is unlike

they managed to make it unlike

anything else

like it yeah

I think Genesis is killing it

I do love the C8 VET

I it just looks mean

it's just this check mark

yeah it's really cool

and you know what I'm liking

is the Neue Class BMW

I'm really looking forward to the new M3

and all the new BMWs coming out

with their new styling

they've kind of done it again

I think they're pretty

I think they've gone back

it's a good correction

great looking cars

I'm curious to see them up front

it's gonna be fantastic

it's just kind of a slash

but it's not overdone

but they've managed to make something

BMW signature again

which is hard to do

it's no longer the angel eyes

or past that

that's in the past

but yeah

there's there's good news coming

I'm excited to see that whole new lineup

and what that does to all their styling

Chip had a really good question

he's also asking specifically

about that Volkswagen Tiguan

and you've raised an interesting question here

you said wait a minute wait a minute

why did we drive

the 2025 Volkswagen Tiguan

and not a 2026 model

and why didn't we review

the higher horsepower

R-line turbo

this isn't necessarily about you Chip

you are speaking to a common misconception

and I want to talk to it again

there is

for as long as I've even paid attention to cars

I'm talking all the way back to when I was younger

than my son my teenage years

and I was reading car magazines

it's been ever since then

for as long as I can think of for cars

you will see a comparison test of cars

and there's this little innocuous sentence in there

about we wanted car X

and it couldn't come for reason why

okay

that hasn't stopped

and I'm talking these were when big car magazines

could call up any manufacturer

and be like we'd like one of those on Tuesday

and the car manufacturer said yes sir

that's gone also by the way

there is this misconception

that if you're going to review a car

you can call up somebody at the manufacturer

and go hi

I'd like this car from you please

with this spec and these options

I'd like it to be this color

and I need it on this day

none of what I said is actually how it happens

and poof it appears

none of it has happened

literally it is about

what do they have in the fleet

and what are they trying to push

so the reason we got a 2025

non-R model Tiguan

is because that's what they had in the fleet

and that's what they sent us

that's what they're trying to sell

and if we're doing our large comparisons

when we're doing our test drives

we take whatever shows up in the driveway

which we're thankful that the manufacturer

sent us stuff

it's awesome to do

we love showing that stuff to you guys

we'll have talking about all of it

we're thinking about putting

I mean you guys have asked

should we put

I'm going to ask again

should we have the test drives

coming back out as podcast

something we can talk about later

but I was wondering about it

because people have asked

anyway so

we review whatever they send us

and also if you guys have a cool car

and you're in the Salt Lake area

we'd like to drive your cool car too

we're taking tuner cars now as well

so all of that is the case

when we chase specific cars

is our comparisons

and we often still don't get

exactly the one we wanted

there is no car lot anywhere

where we get to take choice

we have our ideas

and then it's what car

do you have that you could get us

that's as close to that idea as possible

yes we'll take that one

on Instagram here

Imax062 asks for advice

to someone looking at getting into car sales

I saw this

specifically BMW

love this question

thank you for writing

I know what I want

it's hard to speak for the general public

but you are going to first be trained

by the dealership group

and they are going to have their way

of selling cars

and when they like to focus on

that training is vital

because you need to do the job

of course wherever you are

but as a consumer

if I don't know what I'm looking for

I kind of want to be sold

I don't mind being sold

if I feel like the salesperson

has their best

my best interest in mind

and is actually listening to my needs

if they will tell me

what are you going to use the car for

and that I don't feel like I'm being BSed

or upsold something

because BMW has all these different packages

with different trim levels

if you can make your customers

feel like you guided them to

the sweet spot

not just adding on every package

and uploading

you know

upcharging everything

and making this fully loaded car

with things they might not really want or need

ask them about

what kind of driver are you

where are you going to be going in this

what kind of driving experience

do you want to come away with

that's all good

try to get to the crux of

why BMW

why this badge

what brought you to BMW specifically

and sometimes you're going to encounter people

who are very knowledgeable

and come in

and they know exactly what they want

make it easy for them to give you money

open up the door

clear the path

if that's what you want

let me find you that

yeah

don't try to steer them away

or you know what

here's what I really think

well they already know what they want

when you know what you want to buy

you don't want the salesperson

at best buy

turning the package over

and reading to you

about the hard drive

that you're about to buy

like I can read

when you have somebody

don't read the powerpoint back to them

don't read me the back of the box

tell me something interesting

engaging

you know what

here's where these are built

and the reason they're built there

is because of this reason

and you know what

this is brand new

and the people on the assembly line

love making this

and you know

whatever that is

it needs to be real

you're not BSing people

but give them some connection

to the brand

and why BMW

and have you been to Germany

and have you driven on the Autobahn

and have you been to BMW

world

and you know

engage them and pull stories

so they real start to feel connected

to the brand

and like

they want to be a part of the family too

and you know what

BMW has great stuff for families

and let me show you those

and you know

this feature over here

is really excellent

because kids like this

and it keeps them entertained

or you know

parents like this feature

because it keeps the kids entertained

or something

you know

really find out the crux of the usage

just like you and I do

when we try to dig in

what are you using the car for

not just

some dealerships just say

just get ready to

have money poured into your bank account

and cars are just going to sell

and you don't have to do anything

and you need to be knowledgeable

I like this

I'm going to go a slightly different area

even though all that stuff is very good

I think

look

I'm going to add

I'm going to be very biased

to what I would like

when I go to a car dealer

okay

they

the people you go to work for

let's say it's BMW

let's say it's somebody else

wherever you go to work for

they're going to tell you

how to sell their product

they're going to tell you

you said it already

they're going to tell you the way they sell

and the things that they don't talk about

and things we do talk about

all that kind of stuff

and I can't fight that

that that's fine

whatever you do don't say

but but here but

here's the thing I'm going to say

I'm going to be biased

and it may be completely against

what the dealership group will tell you

but I'm going to say this

I would like you and your free time

to drive as many of the competition

to the BMW cars as you can

go to other dealers

and drive them

because

what what I find

it's the business and gimbals thing

from back in the day

what I find annoying

is if I'm talking to a sales person

at a car dealer

or any other product

and they operate with blinders

like no other products exist

and if you bring them up

they'll just

they'll just talk about their product again

Mercedes we don't say that word

we all know other cars exist

we all know these cars

on the lot have competition

and I'm not saying

get yourself informed

so you talk people out of your cars

you're trying to sell a car

I get it

but if you are knowledgeable enough

to say oh so

the x7 versus the Mercedes GLS

that you've driven both

you can tell

you're going to know all the reasons

why the x7 is great

but what if you knew a way

the GLS was better

but I still think you should get the x7

because of these things

I bet you they're going to buy a car from you

yeah versus you just

continuing to stay on brand

and on product

if you show you've got some sort of

broader awareness

I think the person you're talking to

is going to trust you more

that's what I was

I just want you to have driven other stuff

so you can be like

I know where this fits in the market

we're saying it does this

it does almost that

but it's still great because of

I don't know the rest of that sentence

anyway

guys thank you so much for all your questions

this was a long one

but definitely worth it

we really appreciate it

and let us know what you think at the comments

you know what

is a wheel drive dumb

is it bad

is it

we're going to hear about it

I hope we do

it's Pepsi Coke

it's red blue

it's all the things

it is all the things right now

throw it down

for sure

all right

well until next time

we really appreciate you listening

watching share the podcast

rate and review us

don't forget the rating and review us

it's very helpful

and you know

come on these adventures with us

we want to get out and drive

enjoy these amazing roads

and have an adventure

really appreciate you watching

till next time

cheers everyone

AWD Is Dumb, The Cayman Catastrophe, Should You Bother About What’s Next? | Episode 1,029

About this episode

Honda That Honda

Mercury Sperling

Dodge Demon

Mazda Miatas

Request an Explanation

Want to learn more?

Help improve this episode

More from Everyday Driver Car Debate